Author Topic: 2013 Draft  (Read 32019 times)

craig

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1035 on: June 15, 2013, 07:59:52 am »
Guy on other site says that Bryant is close. 

I wonder how it goes.  I think most or all of the guys who are going to sign have already agreed, even if they haven't passed physicals and made it official yet.  So their cut of the cap is mostly already committed, and Bryant's cut is left. 

I imagine several options:
1.  Bryant wants to wait, until they've signed everybody else; then he just gets whatever is left.  They may want to reserve a couple hundred thousand just in case some HS overslot candidate who's said he's going college changes his mind and decides to accept.  Or in case some guy like Remillard suddenly looked good enough to command some overslot.  So maybe they'd only be willing to give him $5.8 today, but once the college commits stay true to college plans, they'll be able to give him $6.3 without costing them any prospect. 

2.  Conversely, maybe they've reserved a $6.3 slot for Bryant, and have already signed as many overslots as they can afford given that.  But if Bryant signs for $5.8, perhaps that will free up an additional $500K to up offers to guys like Garcia or Leach or Pena. 

I think about 24 picks have already agreed.  All but two of the other college junior types have already agreed, other than 28th and 36th rounders, and maybe they have too. 

They've already done several of the overslot/superslot teenagers (Clifton, Alamo, Burks), and perhaps more (Pena?  Garcia?) 

I'm sure that Clifton/Alamo have more than exhausted the overslot money.   Not sure whether Z or Hannemann may be variably underslot, but I'm guessing that Masek and/or Frasier might be variably overslot, and perhaps Garner too.  So my guess is that for rounds 2-10, we're spending overslot, not under, and Clifton/Amaro way more.  So I'd be pretty surprised if there's enough left to pay Bryant slot even if they wanted to.  But how far under, who knows. 

craig

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1036 on: June 15, 2013, 08:17:54 am »
Other than those I keep pushing, I haven't seen any numbers for innings caps for young pitchers.  Does the Theocracy have any?

Not sure on rigid innings caps.  But they certainly have ideas about limiting wear on young arms.  So I'm really curious what those might be and how they might apply to guys drafted.  The regular college starters pitched around 78-95 innings.  Not sure if that includes conference tournament play.  So if you've already pitched 90 innings, I wonder how much more serious work they'll be willing to allow them, at age 21?  I doubt they're going to be allowed to be 6 innings every 5th night during July and August and early September, that could be another 60 innings.  I'll be surprised if any is allowed more than 40 more innings.  But, obviously I'm just guessing.  So I'm pretty curious to see how they do it. 

I think a bunch of these guys are already in Mesa, and more will pass physicals and show up next week.  I'd guess a couple weeks of "spring training", then some 30-30-45-45-45-60-60-60 pitch buildups.  Perhaps somebody like Masek, who supposedly had some shoulder issue, maybe he'll be different. 

Johnson was really the only fast-sign college guy last year.  And obviously they took him REALLY slow and despite signing in mid-June, he didn't pitch in box-score games for two months and ended up with only 12 innings.  Maybe that will be standard use for college arms, but he'd had the arm problems so I think his handling may have been pretty non-representative. 

Cactus

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1037 on: June 15, 2013, 08:48:07 am »
Quote from: Gordon Wittenmyer
Bryant is expected to be the final pick the Cubs sign, likely at the July 12 signing deadline.

davep

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1038 on: June 15, 2013, 09:01:57 am »
The way they piggyback their staffs in the lower levels, I don't think pitch counts are ever a factor.

JR

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1039 on: June 15, 2013, 09:27:36 am »
Boras tends to take them up right until the last hour, even when there's no reason to.  I'll be pleasantly surprised if that doesn't happen here.

Yeah but he only has a month to play with.  Even if they take it up to the deadline, big deal.

JR

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1040 on: June 15, 2013, 09:29:16 am »
Cub signings seem to be going super fast. 

Quote
I think most or all of the guys who are going to sign have already agreed . . .

craig, where are you hearing about all of these draft signings?

shasson

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1041 on: June 15, 2013, 10:29:26 am »
JR there is a guy on that PSD site who obsessively finds and stalks the twitter accounts of guys drafted and/or their hometown newspapers. And the kids who are drafted are all tweeting stuff about how happy they are to be Cubs and how they are heading to Arizona etc etc.

shasson

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Jes Beard

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1043 on: June 15, 2013, 10:50:17 am »
I'm sure that Clifton/Alamo have more than exhausted the overslot money.   Not sure whether Z or Hannemann may be variably underslot, but I'm guessing that Masek and/or Frasier might be variably overslot, and perhaps Garner too.  So my guess is that for rounds 2-10, we're spending overslot, not under, and Clifton/Amaro way more.  So I'd be pretty surprised if there's enough left to pay Bryant slot even if they wanted to.  But how far under, who knows. 

As a true free market supporter, I hate the slotting system... but I have to admit that it can result in some very interesting games between teams and the drafted prospects.  I am not saying that it is happening with the Cubs, or with anyone, but a team in the position of the Cubs could be very direct with a top prospect, telling him immediately that they are offering him the full recommended slot amount (or the full amount plus some percentage) if he signs immediately, but that they are going to be aggressively pursuing some of the lower round high school picks which they will have to seriously overslot, and that as they do so, they will keep him fully and promptly informed of those signings so he can keep track of what remains in the team's overall pool of funds, and that if those other picks sign, then the pool of funds available for him will shrink, and will end up leaving the team with less available to sign him than the team is initially offering.

craig

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1044 on: June 15, 2013, 11:35:13 am »
jes, my guess is that it's working exactly the opposite.  Steve, we love your guy, we wish we could pay him more, but we want to sign a bunch of other guys too.  So the CBA just doesn't allow us to pay you more and still get the other guys signed.  But, if you want to wait, and if some of those targets won't take the offers, then we'll have some extra and we'll give it to your guy.  We know he deserves it. 

Jes Beard

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1045 on: June 15, 2013, 12:19:09 pm »
craig, that is the exact same thing, only worded differently.  I didn't offer how it would be worded when speaking to the prospect or his agent, but only what would be happening.  How it would "work" as you word it is exactly how I explained it.  Either way you have the top pick looking at a shrinking pool of available funds and wondering whether he should accept a current offer while the money is still there, or hold out for more, with the chance that not only will the "more" no longer be available later, but that the available pool of funds may shrink to the point that the team is no longer able to honor the original offer.

davep

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1046 on: June 15, 2013, 01:33:34 pm »
As a true free market supporter, I hate the slotting system... but I have to admit that it can result in some very interesting games between teams and the drafted prospects.  I am not saying that it is happening with the Cubs, or with anyone, but a team in the position of the Cubs could be very direct with a top prospect, telling him immediately that they are offering him the full recommended slot amount (or the full amount plus some percentage) if he signs immediately, but that they are going to be aggressively pursuing some of the lower round high school picks which they will have to seriously overslot, and that as they do so, they will keep him fully and promptly informed of those signings so he can keep track of what remains in the team's overall pool of funds, and that if those other picks sign, then the pool of funds available for him will shrink, and will end up leaving the team with less available to sign him than the team is initially offering.

I am sure that variations on that theme are going on with most, if not all teams.  But there are risks involved, especially with top draftees.

If the Cubs sign several lower draft choices overslot to the point that there is not enough money to offer slot, the draftee might just decide, as Appel did last year, to refuse to sign, and go back into the next year's draft.  In that case, the team loses the entire slot money for that slot.  If they have already spend it on lower choices, that may well put them over their pool limit, and result in their losing a choice next year.

To use random numbers, if the Cubs pool is 11 million dollars, and 7 million is slotted for the first round pick, if they spend 5 million on their 2nd through 10th pick, and tell Bryant that there is only 6 million dollars left, if he refuses to sign, the Cubs pool now goes down to 4 million, and since they have gone 25% over their pool, they lose their next two year's first round draft choices.

You can game any system, but it often can get quite complicated.

CUBluejays

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1047 on: June 15, 2013, 01:45:27 pm »
Astros expected to sign Appel for $6-6.5, so Bryant should be signing soon for a decent amount under slot.

Cubsin

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1048 on: June 15, 2013, 02:13:03 pm »
I'll actually be surprised if Boras, with the top two picks as clients, would let Appel sign under slot before Bryant was signed. That would put a ceiling on Bryant's bonus, rather than a floor on Appel's if Bryant signed first.

CUBluejays

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Re: 2013 Draft
« Reply #1049 on: June 15, 2013, 02:36:42 pm »
I'd be kinda of shocked if it goes really long.  The Cubs/Astros are likely very close in dollars to what the Appel/Bryant want.  With the penalties as steep as they are for going over your pool you need to pretty much know what it is going to take to sign everybody, so there isn't a whole lot of room to haggle over.