Author Topic: Cubs in '11  (Read 57289 times)

Ron

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1500 on: June 16, 2011, 01:52:58 pm »
Br - I appreciate much of what you contribute here.  I really do.  But you have been one of Soriano's harshest critics since before he became a Cub, I don't thing you had much favorable to say about Soriano even when he was leading the league in OF assists and carrying the team toward a division championship. So you are one of the last people I'd look to for a fair assessment of the guy.  To suggest that Soriano is as bad defensively as Dunn confirms that to me.  Dismissing his OPS because of a low OBA is another.  You can acknowledge the relative value of the guy without undermining your legitimate criticisms of him.




CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1501 on: June 16, 2011, 01:55:59 pm »
br hates Soriano?

Who knew?

I know he hearts Zambrano, but...

And Darwin.  He is head over heels in love with Darwin.

Reb

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1502 on: June 16, 2011, 02:24:26 pm »
Instead of "outweigh" to describe the realtionship of Soriano's OBP to OPS, I guess I would go with "mitigate."  It's true that OBP is the more important component, but Soriano is currently slugging .525 (after his first AB today) and that's pretty darned good.  So, yes, parhaps the OPS is somewhat higher than his actual offensive value--given the low OBP--but it's still pretty decent offensively.

He is a limited player these days.  As to defense, just look at the great player in LF for the Brewers--from a defensive standpoint.   I'm very skeptical whether Braun, defensively, is any better than Soriano.  You put up with it because the guy hits a ton.  Soriano does not hit a ton, so it sticks out more.

davep

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1503 on: June 16, 2011, 04:04:01 pm »
At what salary and how many years should we be willing to sign Fukudome to a new contract.  One that has NO no trade contract?

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1504 on: June 16, 2011, 04:09:19 pm »
Oh, I think we should do a No Trade to Fuku.  Definitely.  And 5 years.  We might not get him otherwise.

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1505 on: June 16, 2011, 04:13:27 pm »
I'd give Fukudome a year at about $5-7 million with some kind of option for 2013.  I really like him as the leadoff hitter for another year so Brett Jackson can break in lower in the lineup.

There's not much room for Fukudome if Byrd, Soriano, and Colvin are all still in the mix next year, though.  I'd prefer having him around to all of them, but I doubt the Cubs feel that way.

davep

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1506 on: June 16, 2011, 04:27:48 pm »
There is nothing practical that they can do about Soriano, and they would be nuts to give up on Colvin at this point.  If Byrd comes back healthy and does well, he is tradable.  Fukudome has been an excellent leadoff man, if you believe that OBA is the most important criteria for leadoff.  His major weakness has been that, although he has streaks of great offense, he also goes through extremely long periods where he really stinks at the bat.

I doubt he will sign for one year, and if I understand correctly, The Cubs must sign him or release him.  He can not be given arbitration.  Other than that, he would be an excellent candidate for arbitration.

Reb

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1507 on: June 16, 2011, 04:39:19 pm »
Makes sense to trade Byrd, but likely only a couple weeks before the trade deadline to show that he's healthy and not gun-shy from the beaning.   Not sure if that will be enough time.

Assuming he's okay, I think he has added trade value because he is signed for 2012 at a reasonable $6.5.  He would not just be a 2-month rent-a-player. We might get some value for him.

Unloading Byrd's contract would basically pay for a Kosuke return.  Kosuke would seem to be more valuable to the Cubs in 2012 than Byrd, given B. Jackson.

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1508 on: June 16, 2011, 04:51:40 pm »
I think the Cubs have done a good enough job pointing out Fukudome's faults over the last 4 years that he's going to have trouble getting more than one year.  Not many outfielders in their mid-30s have gotten big contracts in the last few years, even former stars like Vlad and Abreu. 

I'd still call the Mariners about a Soriano/Figgins swap...that's the only place I can see a Soriano deal being somewhat practical.  As bad as the fans are turning on Figgins, he's probably pretty likely to be released after this season unless he really turns it around.  I like his chances of being a decent supersub over the next 3 years better than I like Soriano's chances of being a decent everyday outfielder, so I don't think it would be a bad deal if the money could be worked out.  Plus, it seems like it would be a lot easier to cut a sunk cost that was signed by someone else if it came to the point where he just needed to be released.

What kind of value would a healthy and performing Byrd bring back in a trade?  Since he's not a rental, I could see it being substantial.  I know the Braves would be interested in at least talking...is someone like Mike Minor a possibility?  He's more of a #3/#4 starter prospect, and is about 7th on the Braves depth chart when everyone is healthy.  I don't think he's untouchable, even for pretty modest return.  It would be nice to fill either a back-end starting spot or an everyday position for next year through a Byrd trade.

Jes Beard

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1509 on: June 16, 2011, 07:16:32 pm »
At what salary and how many years should we be willing to sign Fukudome to a new contract.  One that has NO no trade contract?

The only thing I might offer Fuku is arbitration, and that would be simply to get the draft picks, IF he would bring any. 
Because of language barriers, he would have limited value to mentor younger players, and he would consume a
roster spot that could better be used by a much less expensive young player to either evaluate or develop.

If the Cubs were reasonably likely to seriously contend next season, it would be a different story, and 1 year at $5-6M
might seem reasonable.  But the Cubs are not going to contend next season.  Clear the roster spot and the salary.

StrikeZone

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1510 on: June 16, 2011, 07:29:06 pm »
What I didn't like was the tone of the answer, which basically ridiculed the notion of a different approach.

I totally agree, Eastcoast.

He implied that a team president would only be there to "spy on" the general manager, who would still be Jim Hendry (for reasons known only to Tom Ricketts at this point).

He acted like the only function of a president, or any personnel in a baseball operations capacity, is simply to "watch your baseball guy."

What the hell is that about?

Maybe the Red Sox organization he keeps talking about modeling the Cubs after is the Dan Duquette version.

StrikeZone

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1511 on: June 16, 2011, 07:43:02 pm »
There is nothing practical that they can do about Soriano, and they would be nuts to give up on Colvin at this point.  If Byrd comes back healthy and does well, he is tradable.  Fukudome has been an excellent leadoff man, if you believe that OBA is the most important criteria for leadoff.  His major weakness has been that, although he has streaks of great offense, he also goes through extremely long periods where he really stinks at the bat.

I doubt he will sign for one year, and if I understand correctly, The Cubs must sign him or release him.  He can not be given arbitration.  Other than that, he would be an excellent candidate for arbitration.

Kosuke Fukudome would be a horrible candidate for arbitration because of the rule that you can only cut a guy's salary by 20%.

His agent would accept that in a heartbeat and the Cubs would be stuck with him at about, what, $12 million?

If it's true that the Cubs can't offer him arbitration, it's moot, but offering it to him would be a monumental mistake, I think.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1512 on: June 16, 2011, 07:49:26 pm »
Besides a baseball president would have overruled Jimbo on some  of these moves and probably would have fired him by now.

StrikeZone

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1513 on: June 16, 2011, 08:30:16 pm »
And so begins the backlash of the "Baseball leadership?  We don't need no stinkin' baseball leadership" Ricketts comments from the other day.

Barry Rozner chimes in:

http://tinyurl.com/6fga6qf

Quote
But for the time being you're reduced to watching a minor-league team, as Carlos Zambrano called it, with a manager whose postgame news conferences are something right out of SCTV.
So either Ricketts has gone round the bend — and really believes he doesn't need a baseball guy to run his baseball team — or he thinks Cubs fans are dim enough to believe this gibberish.
So there's your Chicago Cubs, with their Des Moines-level team and Des Moines-style manager, 12 games under .500 with the second-worst record in the National League.
Meanwhile, the Yankees are the Yankees, 11 games over with the second best record in the American League, and a World Series-winning manager in Joe Girardi.
This weekend's series is cute and will garner much attention because it brings together two teams that have been playing baseball for a very long time.
But for all the commotion this will cause, the reality is that's about all they have in common.

Jes Beard

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #1514 on: June 16, 2011, 08:42:40 pm »
Kosuke Fukudome would be a horrible candidate for arbitration because of the rule that you can only cut a guy's salary by 20%.

If that's the rule, I have to agree arbitration would be a major mistake for Fuku.

If it's true that the Cubs can't offer him arbitration, it's moot, but offering it to him would be a monumental mistake, I think.

Why could they NOT offer him arbitration?