Author Topic: Cubs in '11  (Read 57358 times)

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #765 on: May 22, 2011, 12:39:40 pm »
Why is it automatically cynical to not be convinced that Barney is going to be able to maintain what he's done so far?  We got the same attitude last year when we dared to question whether or not Colvin's performance was sustainable, and we've seen how that one has turned out so far.

I appreciate what Barney has done so far, have been impressed, and am more optimistic about him being able to maintain his performance than Colvin.  But he still barely OPSed .700 in the minors, and is far from a sure thing.  I hope he can keep it up.  But a player with as little margin for error as he has still has to prove himself for a longer stretch than a month and a half.  That's not being cynical...that's just realistic.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #766 on: May 22, 2011, 12:43:32 pm »
I think if Castro was used this year like Colvin was used, he'd look like a failure too.  I'm not counting on Colvin amounting to anything, but Cub treatment is an equal culprit to his level of talent.  JMO.

But if how he was used this spring helps you fulfill your prophecy, fine.

StrikeZone

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #767 on: May 22, 2011, 01:22:48 pm »
I think if Castro was used this year like Colvin was used, he'd look like a failure too.  I'm not counting on Colvin amounting to anything, but Cub treatment is an equal culprit to his level of talent.  JMO.

But if how he was used this spring helps you fulfill your prophecy, fine.

I don't know how else Tyler Colvin could have been used, Curt.

He only plays four positions (LF, CF, RF, 1B) and three of those spots (LF, CF, RF) were at least to some degree productive for the first month.

The manager didn't seem to like Colvin's (or anyone's) defense in center field over Marlon Byrd.

Colvin doesn't have a ton of experience at first but he did play there against righties when Carlos Pena tweaked his wrist/thumb/whatever early but Colvin didn't hit.

When Fukudome strained his hamstring, Colvin played and didn't produce.

Alfonso Soriano hit a bunch of homers early so Colvin wasn't going to get much playing time in left as long as Soriano was the only Cub hitting for power.

Once the calendar flipped to May, Carlos Pena has been the Cubs only slugger, so Colvin wasn't going to get much time at first base.

Things just didn't break the right way for Colvin to get a lot of time in the lineup and when he did get some time, he didn't play well enough to earn more.

It made sense to send him down to get every day ABs and hopefully he can get something going in Iowa.  His confidence probably needs some repairing.

I think he'll get himself straightened out and turn things around but it's probably going to take a while because, as someone pointed out earlier, he's never played AAA ball before.

I'd like to see him finish the year in AAA and put up some solid numbers... and then get traded because I don't see him as an every day regular in the Majors for the Cubs but that doesn't mean he can't carve out a nice career as a fourth or fifth outfielder somewhere else.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #768 on: May 22, 2011, 01:28:44 pm »
I think he could have been given a few more at bats, but, generally I agree with you.  There's no place for him.  But I don't understand how things keep getting twisted.  IF Barney was used as seldom as Colvin, IF Castro was used as seldom at Colvin, what kind of stats would they have?  How sharp would they look when they came into games?  Not much better.  Colvin should never have been kept with the big club if he wasn't going to get more use.

br states that we all know how Colvin faded from last year's stats and Barney may too.  Sure.  And if Barney sits and watches others play 2nd next year, I think you have self-fulfilling prophecy.

Let it play out.  Using Colvin to justify Barney bashing just doesn't work.

StrikeZone

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #769 on: May 22, 2011, 01:54:49 pm »
Oh, OK, I see what you're saying with regards to Darwin Barney.

I think if Barney didn't hit from the beginning of the season, he might be at Iowa right now, too.  If Blake DeWitt didn't have a Cactus League from hell, Barney might be starting at second base or shortstop for Iowa.  Actually, Barney would probably be riding the bench for the Cubs because no one else on the 25-man roster can play shortstop.

Remember, the Cubs are in the "production business" (unless your name is Koyie Hill).

Fortunately, Barney has hit really well and been one of the Cubs best players  He has been a pleasant surprise.  Everyone is rooting for him to keep up the good work.

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #770 on: May 22, 2011, 01:54:50 pm »
Let it play out.  Using Colvin to justify Barney bashing just doesn't work.

But why is it considered "bashing" to bring up concerns with these players?  Barney has a low walk, low power profile, and that often makes it hard for a player to succeed.  That's not bashing, it's a legitimate concern.  No one has said Barney sucks, or that they want him to fail...just that he doesn't have a large enough margin for error to anoint as the everyday second baseman for years to come at this point.

I bring up Colvin because he was (and always had been) a low OBP guy whose value relies on power that looked unsustainable.  That concern was labeled as cynical or negativity just for the sake of negativity, much like concerns about Barney are now.  But in retrospect, it appears that there was more to those concerns than just blind bashing.  And there is more than just cynicism involved in Barney criticisms now.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #771 on: May 22, 2011, 01:58:51 pm »
Yep, now you got it.  :)

Cactus

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #772 on: May 22, 2011, 02:03:52 pm »
Justin Berg has been spotted at Fenway Park.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #773 on: May 22, 2011, 02:09:55 pm »
So, we're forfeiting?

Clarkaddison

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #774 on: May 22, 2011, 02:43:00 pm »
I wonder how much of Colvin's problems stem from lingering results of his injury.

Cactus

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #775 on: May 22, 2011, 03:19:22 pm »
They pretty much have to call someone up for tomorrow, don't they?  Maine, Russell, and Samardzija all threw a lot of pitches last night, and it looks like the bullpen is probably going to have to get at least 9-12 outs tonight. 

Depending on how bad Byrd is, I guess they could DL him and call Berg back up to pitch in long relief...at least I'm assuming you can bring up a pitcher back up this quick with a position player injury.
Apparently that rule has been changed.  It used to be that the injury had to be at the same position before the ten day limit was waived.  If so, it sounds like the PTBNL rule changes - anything to get around the rule is fine.

Several sources suggest that Justin Berg is taking Marlon Byrd's roster spot.

Playtwo

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #776 on: May 22, 2011, 04:13:02 pm »
But why is it considered "bashing" to bring up concerns with these players?  Barney has a low walk, low power profile, and that often makes it hard for a player to succeed.  That's not bashing, it's a legitimate concern.  No one has said Barney sucks, or that they want him to fail...just that he doesn't have a large enough margin for error to anoint as the everyday second baseman for years to come at this point.

I bring up Colvin because he was (and always had been) a low OBP guy whose value relies on power that looked unsustainable.  That concern was labeled as cynical or negativity just for the sake of negativity, much like concerns about Barney are now.  But in retrospect, it appears that there was more to those concerns than just blind bashing.  And there is more than just cynicism involved in Barney criticisms now.
br, I think you make a valid point.  I thought that Colvin's pitch recognition would improve and that he would quickly develop into a solid MLer given his apparent fundamental soundness.  You always expressed concerns about him, and his performance so far this season justifies those concerns.  I like Barney, particularly the way he does the little things so well.  But I acknowledge that his current BA is not sustainable, and that it is unclear whether his offensive production will be enough to make him an asset as a starter.  In the meantime, I plan to enjoy his success and hope for the best.

Cactus

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #777 on: May 22, 2011, 04:28:21 pm »
Justin Berg for Marlon Byrd is now official.

DelMarFan

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #778 on: May 22, 2011, 04:56:38 pm »
How about Theriot as a potentially instructive model for Barney?

Don't get me wrong.  I'm really enjoying Barney as one of the few things worth watching about this team, but that in itself is telling.  With little power or patience at the plate, his average doesn't have to drop all that much for him to become 'awful.'

Tom Hudson

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Re: Cubs in '11
« Reply #779 on: May 22, 2011, 05:17:16 pm »
Theriot and Barney may (or may not) be similar in terms of their hitting, but otherwise they are vastly different.  Barney is a far better defender and he is waay better on the fundamentals - he seems to have  very good baseball intelligence.  No one is going to accuse Theriot of that.