Author Topic: Cubs in '17 - 👑👑👑 Reigning Champions Edition 👑👑👑  (Read 75314 times)

Deeg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16919
I wouldn’t be surprised if Bosio was a Theo call more than a Maddon call.

It came two days after Theo said "Every coach that Joe wants back will be back".
Agree Agree x 1 Informative Informative x 1 View List

ticohans

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5074
I wonder if Justin Wilson cratering after the trade impacted things. I think about Adam Warren a couple years ago, too.

CUBluejays

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17344
I really need to get the Athletic, but BleacherNation touched on rigidity with dealing with mid-season acquisitions like Wilson being one of the reasons according to Sharma.

mO

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2569
Wasn't Bosio involved in some controversy earlier this season?  I don't remember the specifics, think he said something disparaging about another team on the radio that rankled the brass.

buff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1021
1 thing I noticed this post season is Contreras really needs to improve his recieving skills.  He takes a lot of strikes away from our pitchers every game. 
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Dave23

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12692
I agree, but a lot of those were also caused by pitchers missing their spots by a wide margin...
Agree Agree x 1 View List

craig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13097
1.  Grimm, Edwards, Wilson, Strop, Montgomery: Theo/Hoyer's guys.  Blame the coach that they are wild?
2.  Davis: reluctant to throw fastballs strikes.  Breaking ball pitching and hesitance to throw fastball strikes => walks. 
3.  Bosio: power-armed relievers seemed to throw inordinate ratio of breaking stuff.  Pitching plan too cautious, too many chase-pitches?
4.  Contreras: On rare times the relievers would hit the target twice straight, wouldn't it normally be 2-0? 
5.  Farm:  6 years into the Epstein regime, and Pierce Johnson and Maples are the best drafted pitcher to help out?   

When Theo signed, he emphasized controlling the strike zone for both pitchers and hitters.  His farm and pen acquisitions haven't really complied. 

CUBluejays

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17344
Wasn't Bosio involved in some controversy earlier this season?  I don't remember the specifics, think he said something disparaging about another team on the radio that rankled the brass.

Implied Thames was on steroids.

Another thing mentioned was that he has a gruff personality.

Deeg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16919
Changing pitching coaches is fine if the manager isn’t comfortable with the one he’s got, but it isn’t going to fix what’s wrong with this pitching staff.  Theo has a real conundrum to deal with this offseason, with circumstances not ideal for what he needs to do. The FA market sucks, his most logical trade chip would be selling low, and there’s no help coming from the minors.

Hickey is by all accounts a very good pitching coach, and he’ll be a fine hire. But in the big picture it’s not the most important decision Theo will have to make this winter by a long shot.


Ron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8430
Interesting Theo quote and comments from Sahadev Sharma:

Brian Duensing, Hector Rondon and Koji Uehara were the only Cubs relievers to pitch at least 10 innings and post a walk rate below 10 percent. That’s not all on Bosio, of course, but clearly the front office believed there was something in his methods that wasn’t working or that they disagreed with.

“We're openly looking at it trying to find a way to get better,” Epstein said. “Coaches, players. It was the subject of some of the exit meetings today with relievers, just talking about it, front office. We're trying to figure out a way to get better because 30th in unintentional walk rate this year, 26th the year before, come on. We have to be a lot better than that. We're going to prioritize trying to find some pure strike throwers out of the bullpen, but the guys we do have, have room for improvement and virtually every one of them does, just their career norm would be an improvement over this year. We've got to find a way to get those guys locked in.”

That Epstein mentions coaches as a way to get better and then transitions into talking about exit meetings could just be a coincidence. But it’s clear the Cubs were unhappy with the way Bosio was handling certain things. There are those who believe that Bosio was too rigid with the way he handled pitchers who arrived mid-season and stubborn when given suggestions on how to handle situations differently. While his dismissal feels sudden, these frustrations have been simmering over the years and apparently finally came to a boil. Justin Wilson’s struggles were highly disappointing to the team and many believe that wasn’t a scouting failure, but rather a pitcher ending up in the doghouse and quickly losing confidence.

...

It’s easy to suggest that pitchers like Arrieta and Kyle Hendricks and others were the creation of Bosio. You could even lump in Paul Maholm, Scott Feldman and Jeff Samardzija, pitchers who were all traded for important pieces at some point. But majority of that comes from the player themselves, as Epstein said. In Hendricks’ case, a lot of it came under the watchful eyes of Borzello and Hottovy.

The Cubs love their pitching infrastructure, particularly Borzello and Hottovy. Both of them should have their roles kept intact. But the Cubs were clearly looking for a change, and Bosio was the first to take the fall.

https://theathletic.com//134026/2017/10/21/after-walk-filled-year-chris-bosio-reportedly-out-as-cubs-pitching-coach/?redirected=1
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 10:55:55 pm by Ron »

craig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13097
Thanks, Ron.  Very interesting. 

Quote
We're going to prioritize trying to find some pure strike throwers out of the bullpen, but the guys we do have, have room for improvement and virtually every one of them does, just their career norm would be an improvement over this year. We've got to find a way to get those guys locked in.


Koji was an attempt at a strike-thrower this past offseason.  Adam Warren the year before.   Well, Davis too, I guess.


Throwing fastball strikes when your fastball isn't very electric is kind of a risky game.  Can see why Warren and Koji were reluctant, and Davis too when some of the fastballs were getting driven over the wall, unlike in his prime. 


Think Warren's performance is kind of noteworthy; he didn't look very good for us, his stuff looked blah.  But his walk-rate, and HR-rate, and every other performance feature, were distinctly worse for Cubs then they were before and after with Yankees.  (And Yankee RF porch is more HR-dangerous for a righty than Wrigley).  And he's not like Koji, where he's ancient so you expect his performance to be worse.  Or Davis, who's presumably in the decline phase of his career.  Warren was right in his prime age. 


Strike-throwing relief will be a higher priority this winter, sure.  But obviously strike-throwing often comes at the expense of stuff.  Koji could throw strikes, but was usually kinda scary to pitch him.  Warren might have profiled as more of a strike-thrower, but his stuff looked so vulnerable, not sure any of us were upset when they dumped him.  Bob Howry at the end was still a strike thrower, but everything got whacked.  Seth Frankoff and Dylan Floro were nice strike-throwers, but with no stuff they get killed.   


Strike-throwing relievers who have excellent stuff, they are very expensive and very hard to find.  Tough target for Theo. 


I am in favor of the wild relievers being more aggressive with the fastball, though.  I know for Rondon and Strop, and Duensing too, the fastballs aren't nearly as hard to hit as the sliders and curve.  But Rondon and Strop both have enough life on their fastball that if you attacked early in count with the fastball, guys could take their swings and get some hits but also get some fast outs.  And if guys are expecting fastball and get slider, you could maybe get more chase strikes early in counts.  If you get to two strikes more often, and 3 balls less, you'll again get more chase swings, whether for fastballs off the plate or for chase sliders.  Just seemed to me that they went to the slider so early and so often they routinely pitched from behind, where hitters did NOT end up chasing their sliders, and could fastball anyway, or take walks.


Maybe that's just wishful thinking, that throwing more fastball strikes early would be a win-win thing.  If there was so simple an adjustment, the pitchers and coaches and management would have already done so. 


CJ it's a different story, since for him the ability to throw even a fastball for a strike is so inconsistent.  Still seems to me that when he's good, he attacks early with fastball and gets strikes.  But often when he's bad he's got no clue where even his fastball is going, and as wild as the curve is that may no more wild or less wild than the fastball.  Not sure what you can do there, other than take the bad with the good and accept what you get.   




JeffH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6154
First look at the 2018 payroll.  Opening day 25-man payroll each of the past two seasons was right around $172 million.

Under contract:
OF Jason Heyward - $21,500,000
1B Anthony Rizzo - $7,000,000
OF/2B Ben Zobrist - $16,000,000
SP Jon Lester - $22,500,000
SP Jose Quintana - $8,350,000
RP Pedro Strop - $5,850,000

Eligible for salary arbitration (estimates from mlbtraderumors.com):
3B Kris Bryant - $8,900,000
SS Addison Russell - $2,300,000
OF Leonys Martin - $4,900,000 (a certain non-tender; this estimated salary omitted from the total)
IF Tommy La Stella - $1,000,000
SP Kyle Hendricks - $4,900,000
RP Justin Wilson - $4,300,000
RP Justin Grimm - $2,400,000 (a possible non-tender; this estimated salary included in the total)
RP Hector Rondon - $6,200,000 (a possible non-tender; this estimated salary included in the total)

Auto-renewal players:
OF Kyle Schwarber - $850,000
OF Albert Almora - $850,000
OF/2B Ian Happ - $850,000
2B Javier Baez - $850,000
C Willson Contreras - $850,000
RP Mike Montgomery - $850,000
RP Carl Edwards Jr. - $850,000

Subtotal - $117,150,000

Likely additions:
OF Replacement for Jon Jay
C Replacement for Alex Avila/Rene Rivera
SP Replacement for Jake Arrieta
SP Replacement for John Lackey
RP Replacement for Brian Duensing
RP Replacement for Wade Davis
Like Like x 3 View List

method

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4404
Rizzo is a steal of a deal... just absurd thats all he makes. Heyward... yikes.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

ticohans

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5074
Have to figure they go in-house with Caratini at backup C, yeah?

Not sure if there are still financial ramifications in place from purchase of Cubs by Ricketts, but the lux tax threshold for 2018 is $197M. Have to figure there's some spending flex between 2017's $172 payroll and that lux cap, especially given how strong our core is and how significant our needs are in this offseason.

It's going to be interesting to see how Theo manages this offseason - it's a complicated one, to be sure. At what point, if any, do you try to extend any of Bryant, Russell, Baez, Contreras? Do you anticipate next year's FA class (Harper, Machado, Kershaw, etc.) and keep a few bucks stashed away? Can you land a starter of the needed quality for one of our MI types (Russell, Baez, Happ)?