Author Topic: Cubs in '18  (Read 75745 times)

Dihard

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4200 on: October 19, 2018, 12:34:48 am »
What is the “Cub for life” angle about?


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CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4201 on: October 19, 2018, 01:04:25 pm »
Very few GMs or Owners openly say they are unhappy with a particular manager, coach or player before they fire him.  Doing so would generally be countproductive.  However, it is probably too large of a jump to think that not saying they are going to fire someone is proof that they are indeed going to do so.

Last year, many pointed out that the offense had declined, or at the very least, not improved over 2016.  Last year, they fired the hitting coach.  This year, it got even worse. 

One year is much too small a sample size to evaluate any manager, hitting coach or pitching coach.  There are just too many random variables.

If Bryant had had a healthy shoulder all year, how much better would he have been?  If Russell had not hurt his hand in July, how much better would he have been?  Did the production of Contreras go down because he was injured, because he was overworked, or because the hitting coach screwed him up?  Could any coach level out the peaks and valleys of Baez's magnificent - horrible hitting streaks?  Could any hitting coach restore Heyward to his pre-signing level.  For that matter, could any hitting coach totally revamp the philosophy and lifelong techniques of an entire team in a single year?

I have always been under the belief that the Manager is of less importance to the performance of a team that at least 20 of the 25 man roster.  Which is probably why many on the team with more than 5 years of experience is probably making more money than the manager.  Epstein can try to pacify part of the fan base by firing a coach or manager, but regardless, he has to make decisions about his playing personnel.

But hindsight doesn't help much. 

It is not true that the front office has fallen in love with the players they brought into the system, and have refused to trade them.  They traded away their best young prospect for Chapman.  They traded away their best hitting prospect, as well as their best young pitching prospect for Quintana.  Candelario went for Wilson.  A couple of younger ones went for Chavez and de la Rosa.

Two years ago, several recommended trading Schwarber.  At that time, his trade value was quite high, and a trade would probably have worked out well for the Cubs.  Two years ago, several recommended trading Baez.  At that time his trade value was fairly high, and a trade would probably have worked out very badly for the Cubs.

Regardless of what we did or did not do two years ago, we live in the present.  Schwarber will not bring back the quality of player that he would have brought two years ago.  Nor would Almora or Russell.  Or Happ.  None of them would likely bring back players that will substantially improve either the offense or the defense.  Would the value of the players received exceed the value of the potential of these players to achieve production that at matches their talent.

These are the decisions that Epstein and Hoyer have to make.  As a fan, the only thing I have to judge their ability to make good decisions is to look at the success of the team over their tenure.  I realize that many don't agree with me, but for the last four years, they have been the team I have longed for over the decades.  They have been in the playoffs every year, winning the division three years and winning the World Series once.  I see no reason why this performance can not continue over the next four years.  And this is extremely good production.  Even the best team in baseball has odds of 3 to 1 against them as they enter the playoffs.  The teams are too closely matched, and each series is too short to prevent a lessor team getting hot or a better team getting cold, to have a success rate much better than that.  Since the advent of playoffs, how many teams have repeated World Series Championships, even at a time when spending was pretty much unlimited for the large market teams?

I want the Cubs to be the 1990s Braves - in the fight right up to the end, making the season enjoyable from start to finish - and that is what the Ricketts family and the current front office has given us.  Their success has far exceeded rational expectations, and I see no reason to believe that will change in the near future.

In the meantime, I will participate in the enjoyable discussions of what the front office should do, giving my opinions along with the others.  But it should be known that not a single one of us has even 10 percent of the information available to the front office, and recommendations based upon comparative ignorance, while fun, are essentially meaningless.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4202 on: October 19, 2018, 01:18:07 pm »

"It is not true that the front office has fallen in love with the players they brought into the system, and have refused to trade them.  They traded away their best young prospect for Chapman.  They traded away their best hitting prospect, as well as their best young pitching prospect for Quintana.  Candelario went for Wilson.  A couple of younger ones went for Chavez and de la Rosa."

Dave, I agree with your whole post back on October 4, except the above paragraph.  From the get go, the Cubs wanted to create a different culture, a family, a fun atmosphere that still knew how to win.  As a result, players who helped create a solid clubhouse are treasured, those didn't, got shipped out.   You offer as a counter that they have shipped out young players like Torres and Eloy for other players.  Those players were not already IN Chicago, embraced by all the fans.  You can't name many players or any players who became part of the Cub family, accepted and embraced by both front office and the fans, who've been traded.  Schwarber, Russell, Almora, Happ, Baez, Contreras, Bryant, Rizzo, Hendricks, Edwards...all still here, though Russell may not be for long, and I think a few of those guys may have to go in a trade of some kind.   Arrieta, Wilson, Lackey, Fowler, FA's, allowed to leave.  Interesting that some like the atmosphere so much, Duensing and Fowler, they come back for less.  When I say, the FO loves their players, that's not necessarily a bad thing.  If they have a core that they believe in and creates the kind of team they want, why shouldn't they love them and hesitate to trade them?  But I think there has been a genuine affection expressed for the guys on the field, including guys like Lester and Zobrist who were brought in.  I interpret Theo's comments to mean that they need to work on overcoming those feelings as they strive to put a more dominant team on the field.

davep

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4203 on: October 19, 2018, 02:07:43 pm »
I didn't mean to dispute that the front office has fallen in love with some of their young players.  I merely meant to say that the fact that they love them is not the reason they were not traded.  Not a single young player (with the exception perhaps of Rizzo, if he is young) has yet reached their potential.  (Obviously, some never will, but it is not that easy to identify those who will or will not reach that potential).  I believe that they have not traded any of those you mentioned simply because they felt they had more long term value to the Cubs than the players they were offered in exchange.

The Cubs needed pitching.  Many wanted them to trade Russell or Baez to get it.  It is easy to say in hindsight that they should have traded Russell when they had a chance, but it would probably been a mistake to have traded Baez.  Instead, they did not ignore their pitching problems.  They merely tried to solve it through free agency.  They didn't make a trade, not because then didn't want to trade a loved player, but because they didn't want to trade the WRONG loved player, as long as they had other, safer options.

It turned out that the safer options were not all that safe, but again, hindsight is not very helpful.  Very few were unhappy with the signing of Darvish, and they got him without risking a trade of the wrong young player.

craig

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4204 on: October 19, 2018, 02:15:51 pm »
Thats a good distinction, Curt.  They've been ruthless with trading minor leaguers.  But the only young major leaguer they've traded has been Soler, and Castro, two guys they didn't love. 

Not sure what they can do now, though.  Russell and Schwarber, their value drops year by year by year.  There was a time when either could have been a centerpiece in a major deal; those days are gone.  For two reasons.  1st, as club control shortens and arb salary increases, automatically the value drops.  2nd, when a guy is really young and new, projecting age-based improvement makes sense.  That fades with each year of plateau-or-decline. 

Assuming Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo are off-the-table, do we have others with major trade value?  Deeg would consider shopping Contreras.  But I don't imagine Schwarber, Happ, Russell, or Almora are all that appealing to anybody anymore. 

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4205 on: October 20, 2018, 06:42:16 pm »
Interesting piece from Bruce Miles (who remains the best Cubs beat reporter by a wide margin) on the total clusterfrick the club has made of the hitting coach position:

http://bit.ly/2Pd8ENl
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CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4206 on: October 20, 2018, 09:26:17 pm »
Sorry, but that's a total hit piece.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4207 on: October 20, 2018, 10:09:56 pm »
The truth hurts sometimes.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4208 on: October 20, 2018, 10:24:07 pm »
I didn't want to dignify my quip with purple.

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4209 on: October 20, 2018, 10:25:26 pm »
The offense is dysfunctional. If they don't add a couple really good hitters this offseason, Iapoce is going to have the same experience with this group that Davis and Mallee had the last two years.

Davis was a mistake, though. Late 80s/early 90s hitting strategy doesn't work in 2018.

guest61

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4210 on: October 20, 2018, 11:57:53 pm »
I agree that the everyday 8 needs a makeover.


Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4211 on: October 21, 2018, 01:50:24 am »
I didn't want to dignify my quip with purple.

I apologize for missing that delicious pun. Kudos.

Bennett

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4212 on: October 25, 2018, 01:45:47 pm »
I like Javy's chances.  Rizzo's bunt defense should give him a shot too.




Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4213 on: October 25, 2018, 04:18:00 pm »
Baez played a lot of games at SS this year, that isn't going to help his chances.
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CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #4214 on: October 25, 2018, 04:27:24 pm »
Baez played a lot of games at SS this year, that isn't going to help his chances.
Palmeiro hardly played any at first base, and still won it.