Author Topic: Cubs in '18  (Read 75539 times)

Ron

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #375 on: November 14, 2017, 04:02:11 pm »

And what do we have from all those trades less than 2 years later?  Mike Montgomery and Jose Quintana (and a WS).  It just feels like we wasted a lot of assets.

Oh, yeah. "(and a WS)" also known as the World Series Championship. That seems like it's worth quite a lot to me.  But maybe that's just me.   ;)
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grrrrlacher

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #376 on: November 14, 2017, 04:06:36 pm »
Yes it is worth a lot and I wouldn't take back that Chapman trade.

My issue is the FO stated desire to trade hitting assets that we used to have for cost controlled pitching which is not what we got for ALL those assets.  They don't seem to think enough of relief pitching to go out and spend the $$ on, but they are willing to trade more valuable cost controlled assets for those same RP.  Its just infuriated me the most about this FO.  They needed to address the RP and could have in FA instead of wasting our farm system.

DelMarFan

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #377 on: November 14, 2017, 04:21:13 pm »
I'd like to see a breakdown on the risk/reward ratio for spending money on free agent relief pitchers.  I bet it sucks.

JeffH

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #378 on: November 14, 2017, 04:43:18 pm »
Since 2003, here are the closers for Theo's teams:

2003 - Byung-Hyun Kim (acquired via trade for Shea Hillenbrand, who was superfluous with Bill Mueller just signed as a free agent)
2004 - Keith Foulke (multi-year free agent contract)
2005 - Foulke (Mike Timlin backed him up when he failed)
2006 - Jonathan Papelbon (homegrown)
2007 - Papelbon
2008 - Papelbon
2009 - Papelbon
2010 - Papelbon
2011 - Papelbon
2012 - Carlos Marmol (inherited)
2013 - Kevin Gregg (one-year free agent contract)
2014 - Hector Rondon (Rule 5 selection)
2015 - Rondon
2016 - Rondon / Aroldis Chapman (expensive deadline trade)
2017 - Wade Davis (expensive offseason trade)

It's pretty clear that Theo still remembers his bad experience with Foulke.

We need to find our Papelbon.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #379 on: November 14, 2017, 04:52:53 pm »
Sign 2 good set-up guys and let 'em compete with Wilson.  This isn't brain surgery.

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #380 on: November 14, 2017, 04:57:05 pm »
And if the two setup guys signed are Reed and McGee, all three guys battling for the job have closed in the past--there would be no reason to doubt things would work out.

method

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #381 on: November 14, 2017, 04:59:03 pm »
Yes it is worth a lot and I wouldn't take back that Chapman trade.

My issue is the FO stated desire to trade hitting assets that we used to have for cost controlled pitching which is not what we got for ALL those assets.  They don't seem to think enough of relief pitching to go out and spend the $$ on, but they are willing to trade more valuable cost controlled assets for those same RP.  Its just infuriated me the most about this FO.  They needed to address the RP and could have in FA instead of wasting our farm system.

What did the other teams get for all those assets? Torres and Eloy while amazing super awesome prospects are just prospects... and if you consider the $$$ value of signing eloy and getting Q out of it, its a slam dunk.

Playtwo

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #382 on: November 14, 2017, 05:53:37 pm »
Right on, method.  It's hard to complain about the return on our youngsters, at least as things stand now.

Jes Beard

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #383 on: November 14, 2017, 06:16:54 pm »
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21385913/hot-stove-survey-stanton-st-louis-otani-bronx-insiders-weigh-winter

A poll of GMs found one predicting Otani would sign with the Cubs..... so long as that one was Theo or Hoyer....

CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #384 on: November 14, 2017, 06:26:09 pm »
If either Dillion Maples or Edwards can consistently throw strikes there is the Cubs version of Paplebon.

Jes Beard

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #385 on: November 14, 2017, 09:27:39 pm »
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21385913/hot-stove-survey-stanton-st-louis-otani-bronx-insiders-weigh-winter

A poll of GMs found one predicting Otani would sign with the Cubs..... so long as that one was Theo or Hoyer....

In looking at the article more closely, perhaps there is reason to think the exec who thought the Cubs would sign him is Theo or Hoyer -- " Seattle has a strong history with Japanese players, and the Cubs could jump into the fray even though they didn't score strongly in this survey."

The only strong reason to think the Cub might "jump into the fray" is if it was Theo or Hoyer who thought the Cubs will sign him.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #386 on: November 15, 2017, 01:19:09 am »
Mooney floats the option of Mikolas as a 5th starter option for the Cubs, though whether he has a source of just read that here is anybody’s guess.

craig

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #387 on: November 15, 2017, 08:21:25 am »
Mooney floats the option of Mikolas as a 5th starter option for the Cubs, though whether he has a source of just read that here is anybody’s guess.
  Interesting.  Plate is same size and distance in Japan, so if he was good there he may be capable here, too? 

Wonder if they might not be intending to bring in a couple of candidates, actually, rather than kind of committing to one?  That only works if you aren't enslaved to keeping them.  3-4 guys, let the best man win is fine; but you've got to be willing to deal with the losers.  Non-roster, no commitment, nothing lost?  Non-roster, send to minors for a while?
  Health question, send off on a rehab for a while?  Major league contract, but cheap enough that no hesitation to eat it and cut guy?  Or maybe guy is good enough that even if he doesn't win April rotation spot, you've got a spot in the bullpen for him? 

Maybe they scout Mikolas favorably enough to just commit to him as #5 and that's it.  But I guess I'm kind of thinking if they do sign somebody like that, he might be one of a handful of options.  Thought I've seen Buchholz mentioned, for example, certainly you'd not sign him and have him as the only guy.  But with several candidates, maybe you get lucky and one of them kills it in rotation and another one ends up being really good in relief. 

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #388 on: November 15, 2017, 08:44:44 am »
  Interesting.  Plate is same size and distance in Japan, so if he was good there he may be capable here, too? 

Wonder if they might not be intending to bring in a couple of candidates, actually, rather than kind of committing to one?  That only works if you aren't enslaved to keeping them.  3-4 guys, let the best man win is fine; but you've got to be willing to deal with the losers.  Non-roster, no commitment, nothing lost?  Non-roster, send to minors for a while?
  Health question, send off on a rehab for a while?  Major league contract, but cheap enough that no hesitation to eat it and cut guy?  Or maybe guy is good enough that even if he doesn't win April rotation spot, you've got a spot in the bullpen for him? 

Maybe they scout Mikolas favorably enough to just commit to him as #5 and that's it.  But I guess I'm kind of thinking if they do sign somebody like that, he might be one of a handful of options.  Thought I've seen Buchholz mentioned, for example, certainly you'd not sign him and have him as the only guy.  But with several candidates, maybe you get lucky and one of them kills it in rotation and another one ends up being really good in relief. 
Isn't the ball a teensie bit smaller?  Thought I read that somewhere.  No matter; guy looks interesting.

CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #389 on: November 15, 2017, 10:00:23 am »
Mikolas is listed at 6-5, 220 on zfangraphs.