Author Topic: Cubs in '18  (Read 75603 times)

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #450 on: November 30, 2017, 01:23:36 pm »
Rondon is tricky because of the injury issues he's had the last couple of years.  I remember reading that he had to be convinced not to retire at some point in the season before the Cubs picked him up in the Rule 5 because he was tired of dealing with injuries.  Of course you bring him back if he's healthy...but given his injury history, I think the Cubs have good reasons to doubt that.

Ideally, they can find a trade for him before tomorrow so they won't have to worry about it.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #451 on: November 30, 2017, 03:54:51 pm »
I think Rondon may have mental injuries also.   When Chapman came over, he expressed that given an opportunity to get a closer like Chapman, you have to take it.  He was a real team player about it, but I've wondered how much it burned his confidence, his self-image, his morale.  I still like him, but it may be too late to be fixed.  Joe would pull Rondon in situations he would let Davis or Chapman work out of.

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #452 on: November 30, 2017, 08:31:18 pm »
I saw earlier that the Astros are trying to trade Mike Fiers before the non-tender deadline tomorrow. Would a swap of non-tender candidates (Fiers for either Rondon or Grimm) be worthwhile for the Cubs?  He'd be a decent fallback for 5th starter if other options don't work out, and could become a swing man (or could just be dumped before the season starts) if the Cubs end up with better options.  He was bad last year, but averaged about 2 fWAR a year from 2012-16. 

I doubt he'd make sense for the Cubs if he cost anything valuable.  But if they could get him for a guy they might drop tomorrow anyway, I could see the appeal.

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #453 on: December 01, 2017, 09:10:55 am »
Jon Morosi‏ @jonmorosi
Source: @MLB ownership conference call to ratify Japanese posting agreement scheduled for 1 pm ET today. Approval is considered a formality at this point; Shohei Ohtani to be formally posted soon afterward. @MLBNetwork


Once he's posted, he has three weeks to sign.  So he'll sign before Christmas.

Ron

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #454 on: December 01, 2017, 10:14:50 am »
There is a surprising amount of speculation that the Cubs are serious suitors for Ohtani. I don't know if this is because of the assumption that Epstein and the Cubs are capable of just about anything or what.  I just know that I find it very hard to believe (even though I would sure like to), even though the reports are that money isn't a factor at all and that some of the things he's asking clubs to describe are ones for which the Cubs can make a strong case. 

One can dream, I suppose.

Jack Birdbath

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #455 on: December 01, 2017, 10:23:19 am »
Why would that be surprising?

craig

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #456 on: December 01, 2017, 10:34:07 am »
That seems such an implausible long shot. 
1.  Cubs have no money advantage; and some disadvantage. 
2.  The guy wants to be an amazingly-unique 2-way guy, he loves to hit; Cubs have no DH, and don't have any starts at 1B to give away either.
3.  Cubs don't have the international reputation of the Yankees. 
4.  Chicago isn't a shorter flight back home, nor is it an unusually established Japanese hot-spot, either community-wise or as a team. 

Just hard to imagine why Ohtani would want to choose the Cubs ahead of one of the AL/DH teams that project to be annual contenders. 

craig

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #457 on: December 01, 2017, 10:36:31 am »
I do wonder whether also going after Darvish as well, or perhaps another Japanese pitcher, and having two countrymen together to share some of the life together, and maybe a translator and cultural-adjustment assistant, might make some sense? 

ticohans

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #458 on: December 01, 2017, 11:06:11 am »
There is a surprising amount of speculation that the Cubs are serious suitors for Ohtani. I don't know if this is because of the assumption that Epstein and the Cubs are capable of just about anything or what.  I just know that I find it very hard to believe (even though I would sure like to), even though the reports are that money isn't a factor at all and that some of the things he's asking clubs to describe are ones for which the Cubs can make a strong case. 

One can dream, I suppose.

I don't know what the source of the information was, but I read in a chat yesterday that the Cubs have said they would play him as an OF as well as a pitcher. Not sure if that's as a bullpen pitcher or as an SP, but if the Cubs are willing to let him play wherever he wants, whenever he wants, they should be a strong contender. Extraordinary recent success, extraordinary future potential, major market, excellent management, etc. We may not be able to offer the cultural comforts of a place like Seattle, and we may not have the mythos of the Yankees, but the Cubs can position very well for the majority of the questions asked by Otani's "RFP," for lack of a better term.
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Jack Birdbath

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #459 on: December 01, 2017, 11:14:55 am »
I suspect the two way player thing will end pretty quickly. So, if he wants to get a decent number of at bats, the NL is the spot since he'll have to hit every 5th day and there is more pinch hitting in the NL. Finally, playing for Maddon and being part of his unconventional and creative use of his roster may get him some additional at bats and non-pitching playing time.  For the other stuff, the Cubs stack up well - Chicago is a big, global city; the team is really good now and set up to be good for awhile; and they have an absolute need for him where he'll be the #1 guy immediately. 
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Bennett

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #460 on: December 01, 2017, 11:21:39 am »
Japanese teams play only a 144 game season.  I wonder of Ohtani really knows what he is asking for.

ticohans

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #461 on: December 01, 2017, 11:25:56 am »
That seems such an implausible long shot. 
1.  Cubs have no money advantage; and some disadvantage. 
Otani is leaving TENS - if not HUNDREDS - of MILLIONS of dollars on the table. Money is not a motivator here, and it's not going to make a difference. When you waive your ability to earn nine figures, the difference between high six and low seven figures is meaningless.

2.  The guy wants to be an amazingly-unique 2-way guy, he loves to hit; Cubs have no DH, and don't have any starts at 1B to give away either.
Otani has 60-70 grade speed and a cannon arm. He's likely an excellent defensive OF, and the Cubs are reportedly saying they would let him play OF. Under normal circumstances, that would simply be too great a risk for a pitcher of Otani's ability, but if your chances of signing him disappear without the OF option, it's literally no risk at all, especially given that he's basically going to play for free wherever he signs.

3.  Cubs don't have the international reputation of the Yankees. 
Agreed. This is a challenge for the Cubs and one of the reasons why - though they may be serious contenders - they cannot be considered front runners.

4.  Chicago isn't a shorter flight back home, nor is it an unusually established Japanese hot-spot, either community-wise or as a team. 
Don't think the shorter-flight-back-home will matter much, but the Japanese cultural issue is also a weakness for the Cubs.

Just hard to imagine why Ohtani would want to choose the Cubs ahead of one of the AL/DH teams that project to be annual contenders. 
If Otani really wants to challenge himself and prove his ability in every aspect of baseball, AL/DH teams are not necessarily at an advantage.

My opinion on the matter literally means nothing and is worthless, but I'll give it anyway: Otani, in waiving hundreds of millions of dollars, is coming here for one thing.

Glory.

The chance to prove himself the greatest and most complete baseball player of all time by excelling in every facet of the game; the incarnation of the ideal Platonic form of baseball greatness; the first ever two-way star; an icon and an archetype for a select few future athletes who might also attempt two-way greatness. Basically, Baseball Jesus.

He could have waited a few years, and barring injury, still have played on the greatest stage while preserving the ability to earn absurd amounts of money. But if he waits a few years, he loses some of his prime. He loses years he could have plied against the greatest numbers in record books. 

Coming now says, "I want to be Baseball Jesus," and I don't know that Baseball Jesus is a DH.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 11:27:39 am by ticohans »
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ticohans

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #462 on: December 01, 2017, 11:31:26 am »
Once Otani signs, the truly fascinating question is how and when his new club will propose a contract extension, and how MLB will react.

There is absolute precedent for offering players with little-to-no major league experience significant major league contracts. Not if, but WHEN this happens, what will the Commissioner's Office do?

guest61

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #463 on: December 01, 2017, 11:57:14 am »
NOtani.
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CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs in '18
« Reply #464 on: December 01, 2017, 12:04:05 pm »
It also has been rumored he might want to go to a team that hasn't had a significant Japanese player in the past, so he could be orginal star.

I have no clue what the guy wants, but I have every confidence that Theo will put the Cubs in the best position possible to win.

Alvarez was announced and he apparently has an option remaining.  That makes him more interesting.