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Author Topic: Hot Stove 2011  (Read 5696 times)

Deeg

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2011, 01:06:52 am »
Barrett made an error, Z showed him up in the dugout, they went down the tunnel shouting at each other and Z sucker punched Barrett in the face and put him in the hospital.
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Santo4HofF

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2011, 05:16:27 am »
Cliff Floyd told the story of the fight last week on MLB radio. He said he came out of the training room and Z was pacing yhe club house with his shirt off ranting how he was going to kill Barret. Barret came into the locker room to talk to Z. Cliff told Barret that if Z starts throwing punches you are on your own.  Well the fight was one sided with Michael bloodied.  Teamates showed up and asked Cliff why he didn't try to break it up. Cliff told them he didn't want his a.. kicked too.
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Jes Beard

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2011, 07:59:09 am »
Quote from: Deeg on November 09, 2011, 01:06:52 am
Barrett made an error, Z showed him up in the dugout, they went down the tunnel shouting at each other and Z sucker punched Barrett in the face and put him in the hospital.

How do you "sucker punch" someone in the face?

What does it mean to "sucker punch" someone?

I always took it to mean to catch someone completely off guard, catching them with a punch which they did not see coming, and could not have anticipated.

But you have described a situation in which Zambrano hit Barrett, in the face, and after they had been shouting at each other and left the dugout.

My memory of Barrett is that his eyes were right there in the front of his face, meaning he would have been able to see any punch thrown to his face, and anyone being shouted at by another person, and who effectively "steps outside" with that shouting person so they are out of sight of others would really have to be pretty slow to be very surprised if the shouts escalated to violence.

Any chance, Deeg, that you might have some general hostility toward Zambrano coloring your description of what happened.... particularly that reference to "sucker punched"?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sucker+punch
sucker punch
n
1. a sudden surprise punch, esp from behind
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davep

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2011, 11:00:09 am »
If Zambrano hit Barrett with no warning, that would certainly be a "sucker punch".  Is that how Cliff described it?  If so, Zambrano should have been suspended for the rest of the year, and expelled forever, if it happened again.

Did Zambrano ever do it again, or was that a one time thing?
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Jes Beard

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2011, 04:18:27 pm »
dave, if you and I are facing each other, and I am yelling at you, and your eyes are open, I might well be described as punching you without provocation, but it can't really qualify as a "sucker punch."  And that is not just my definition.  It is the commonly accepted definition for the phrase.
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Ron

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2011, 05:46:40 pm »

I don't know this video promoting Yoennis Cespedes has already been posted, but in case it hasn't, here it is.[/font]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kREZHmOR1bg&feature=player_embedded


People who resent Soriano watching his HRs are going to just love Cespedes - who has perfected the art.  He is also adept at catching fly balls behind his back - that should be useful.  He's pretty strong, apparently able to bench press 350# and leg press 1300#.  And  he can do a 45" "box jump."  He also seem to like hip hop music.
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CurtOne

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2011, 06:13:46 pm »
Reminds me a bit of Sammy.
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Jes Beard

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2011, 06:35:16 pm »
Looks like he might be very talented, but unless he came far cheaper than I would expect, I hope the Cubs pass.  Just not a big fan of players who stand at homeplate to watch their HR.
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Cubsin

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2011, 08:58:53 pm »
I have no idea whether Cespedes is a potential superstar or a huge waste of money, but I do trust the Theocracy to make a good decision either way. With the Dice-K experience behind him, Theo will only outbid all of the other teams if he's comfortable that the Ricketts' money would be well-spent.
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Jes Beard

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2011, 10:25:13 pm »
Quote from: Cubsin on November 09, 2011, 08:58:53 pm
I have no idea whether Cespedes is a potential superstar or a huge waste of money, but I do trust the Theocracy to make a good decision either way. With the Dice-K experience behind him, Theo will only outbid all of the other teams if he's comfortable that the Ricketts' money would be well-spent.

You mean like the way he handled the bidding for Crawford?

Dice-K was not the only bad contract Theo negotiated, nor does adding Crawford come close to exhausting the list.
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davep

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2011, 11:00:06 pm »
Epstein has made some major mistakes over the course of his time in Boston.  Crawford, Lackey and Dice-k being just some of them.

However, judging talent is an inexact science at best, and every GM has made some terrible moves.  The fact remains that Epstein (and for that matter every GM) has much more information to go on than anyone on this board. 

That said, I hope we sign him.  It is always fun to bring in someone considered to be a good prospect.  At least it is fun for much of the first year.
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Jes Beard

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2011, 11:12:03 pm »
No argument with that, Dave.  I agree completely that the Theocracy are in a better position than we are to make intelligent decisions about personnel.  I simply disagree with the idea that he is infallible, and that appears to be the growing consensus among folks posting here.
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davep

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2011, 11:17:06 pm »
Then you must have missed the post I made a couple of days ago, making the same point.
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Cubsin

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2011, 02:32:44 am »
No GM is always right, and no GM is always wrong. Theo, Jed, Justin and the rest of the front office will make a state-of-the-art evaluation of Cespedes and tell Ricketts what they think he's worth.  Then Ricketts will decide whether to make no offer, make a lower offer, make the recommended offer or make a higher offer.

That doesn't guarantee that Cespedes won't be a total bust for the Cubs or a Hall-of-Famer for another franchise. But they will spend the time and resources to do the evaluation properly. A prospect of his caliber is certainly more important to the Cubs than the compensation packages to the Red Sox and Padres.
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JeffH

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Re: Hot Stove 2011
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2011, 07:27:50 am »
Theo, Jed, Justin and the rest of the front office will make a state-of-the-art evaluation of Cespedes and tell Ricketts what they think he's worth.  Then Ricketts will decide whether to make no offer, make a lower offer, make the recommended offer or make a higher offer.

I highly doubt this is what will happen.

The baseball operations leadership will make the determination of whether or not to bid all on its own.
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