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Author Topic: Politics, Religion, etc.  (Read 391035 times)

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12285 on: October 11, 2017, 12:01:29 am »
Quote from: Pekin on October 10, 2017, 10:35:34 pm
davep,  I don't know why they did it.

I just know it wasn't one guy.  There were at least two shooters. 

It is common for people to believe that really significant bad things simply could not be accomplished by relatively insignificant people.  That was one of the reasons so many people were eager to buy conspiracy theories on the JFK assassination.  It is one of the reasons people insist 911 simply could not have been accomplished by a bunch of extremist nutjobs.

Accepting that such things can be done by those as insignificant as an Oswald or as the yahoos who got on those planes on the morning of 911 or the Paddock in Las Vegas is simply too unsettling.  It does too much to disrupt what for most of us is a belief in a relatively orderly, safe and sane world.  It is much easier to believe in conspiracy theories, boogeymen and deep dark groups of truly venal people than it is to accept the degree of randomness and chaos in which we exist.

So, Pekin, you unquestionably have a lot of company out there.  And regardless what evidence is presented, you and others buying the conspiracy nonsense will continue to do so.  It has almost nothing to do with evidence and almost everything to do with the way each of us views the world.
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Pekin

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12286 on: October 11, 2017, 12:58:35 am »
Quote from: Jes Beard on October 11, 2017, 12:01:29 am
It is common for people to believe that really significant bad things simply could not be accomplished by relatively insignificant people.  That was one of the reasons so many people were eager to buy conspiracy theories on the JFK assassination.  It is one of the reasons people insist 911 simply could not have been accomplished by a bunch of extremist nutjobs.

Accepting that such things can be done by those as insignificant as an Oswald or as the yahoos who got on those planes on the morning of 911 or the Paddock in Las Vegas is simply too unsettling.  It does too much to disrupt what for most of us is a belief in a relatively orderly, safe and sane world.  It is much easier to believe in conspiracy theories, boogeymen and deep dark groups of truly venal people than it is to accept the degree of randomness and chaos in which we exist.

So, Pekin, you unquestionably have a lot of company out there.  And regardless what evidence is presented, you and others buying the conspiracy nonsense will continue to do so.  It has almost nothing to do with evidence and almost everything to do with the way each of us views the world.

I understand where you are coming from.  The difference is that now everyone has a video camera on them with sound.   

But in this instance the evidence actually supports more then one shooter.  Las Vegas has so many cameras and security that we know that they have the evidence of what exactly happened.  So for them to not even be able to give a correct time line is proof they are full of ****!   The "they" is the LVPD and FBI since "they" are the ones giving false information.

I am no stranger to tragedy.  My dad died of a heart attack at 27 when I was 7 yrs old.  I was going to grade school with a girl when her dad killed her mom in front of her and her sister.  I had a friend who blew his own head off with a shotgun in 8th grade.

There does not need to be some big scheme going on behind the scenes for bad things to happen.  Sometimes bad things happen.

The evidence in this particular case points to something else going on besides one lone crazy guy. 

     

 
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Jackiejokeman

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12287 on: October 11, 2017, 01:56:53 am »



 Death is eternal and no one here is coming out alive.


 But what happens afterwards ?


 Is this time on Earth your entire existence ?


 And after you die there is nothing else ?


 Or is it the whole rainbow just as you imagined ?


 When you croak ?


 That's the answer that nobody has.


 It's what keeps you alive and the suspense growing ...


 for your demise.


 Holy shiit !!
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WshflThinking

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12288 on: October 11, 2017, 08:21:16 am »
I think I need to submerge again to work on that conspiracy theory..... but WHATEVER happened, you for dambed sure know THEY are lying to us and that there was a conspiracy.

They are. And I bet you Soros is deep down involved with this.
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method

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12289 on: October 11, 2017, 09:02:47 am »
Soros is really quite amazing in his ability to do these things.
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Jack Birdbath

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12290 on: October 11, 2017, 09:31:02 am »
So the senior management at MGM either knew this was coming or was part of the planning so they decided to profit off this by engaging in extremely public insider trading?
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method

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12291 on: October 11, 2017, 09:34:21 am »
Nobody is saying these guys are smart. But just follow the money. its obvious both soros and MGM have something to gain here.
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Pekin

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12292 on: October 11, 2017, 10:50:17 am »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/mgm-resorts-disputes-las-vegas-police-timeline-shooting.html

Judge Andrew Napolitano, Fox News’ senior judicial analyst, said on “Cavuto: Coast to Coast,” that the news from the new timeline is not that the security guard was shot earlier than previously stated, but that the news was "that the agent of the hotel who should have been carrying with him a recording device -- a device which would have allowed the head of security or somebody in security to listen in – was shot at 200 times by an automatic weapon.”

He continued, “So Mandalay Bay knew of the existence and presence and workability of the automatic weapon six minutes before he started killing people. That should have triggered an enormous response,” he said, considering the argument lawyers could make to a jury, if it gets to that point.
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Pekin

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12293 on: October 11, 2017, 10:54:01 am »
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Pekin

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12294 on: October 11, 2017, 11:04:12 am »
So the hotel sent their own armed security but did not inform the police? 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/bellhop-reportedly-helped-las-vegas-gunman-with-bags-as-resort-cops-differ-over-timeline.html

But Lombardo said Monday officers weren’t even aware of Campos’ situation until they arrived on the 32nd floor 18 minutes after he was shot, raising doubts resort security relayed the message to police.
Even more damning: Roberts, in his interview, said the hotel dispatched its own armed security team that arrived “right around the same time” as Las Vegas officers.

Adding to the confusion: there are no surveillance cameras in the floor’s hallway, but only on elevator banks, and the timestamps on the hotel’s communications systems in some cases may have been off, Clark County Assistant Sheriff Tom Roberts told the Los Angeles Times Tuesday.


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davep

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12295 on: October 11, 2017, 02:34:09 pm »
Quote from: Pekin on October 10, 2017, 10:35:34 pm
davep,  I don't know why they did it.

I just know it wasn't one guy.  There were at least two shooters. 

We could hear the difference.  We can hear in videos loud shots and their echos as well as softer shots and their echos while sometimes both overlapping.  We can hear this in multiple videos from by mandalay bay and by the stage.

It has been broken down and proven there were at least two shooters.  We have first hand reports of multiple shooters as well as police chatter saying it was multiple shooters.

You seem to think because I don't know why it happened it means there isn't more then one shooter or that we are not being lied to.

Does that mean because you don't know why the one guy shot everyone it didn't happen?  How does that logic make sense?

We can know we are being lied to with out knowing why.


As far as I know, the police have not said that there was not more than one shooter.  What I have seen is that they have said that they have found no evidence that there was more than one shooter.  That is quite different.

If there is a cover up conspiracy, there needs to be a reason for the cover up, and there needs to be complete agreement between all those involved.  What motivation can you think of that would cause the FBI, the Las Vegas Police, the Nevada State Police, the Department of Alcohol and Firearms and the Security and Administration staff of the Hotel all to agree to keep this secret?  Large, diverse groups just can not keep a secret like that without leaking all over the place.

And there has to be a reason for the cover up.  If there WAS another shooter, how does that change things, other than to have to look for someone that they may well already be looking for?  I have seen nothing that seems insidious in the story so far.
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davep

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12296 on: October 11, 2017, 02:41:54 pm »
Quote from: Pekin on October 11, 2017, 10:50:17 am
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/mgm-resorts-disputes-las-vegas-police-timeline-shooting.html

Judge Andrew Napolitano, Fox News’ senior judicial analyst, said on “Cavuto: Coast to Coast,” that the news from the new timeline is not that the security guard was shot earlier than previously stated, but that the news was "that the agent of the hotel who should have been carrying with him a recording device -- a device which would have allowed the head of security or somebody in security to listen in – was shot at 200 times by an automatic weapon.”

He continued, “So Mandalay Bay knew of the existence and presence and workability of the automatic weapon six minutes before he started killing people. That should have triggered an enormous response,” he said, considering the argument lawyers could make to a jury, if it gets to that point.

I'm not going to go back to check, but didn't Pekin say that there was evidence that the guard was NOT shot at 200 times, there only being a small number of holes in the door and the walls?  If that report was false, it doesn't make much sense to use it as proof of something.
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Pekin

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12297 on: October 11, 2017, 04:00:49 pm »
The official story is Paddock shot at the guard over 200 times.  They said he shot through the door.  This has been repeated numerous times and again during the Sheriff's last press conference when the time line changed.

There are just a few bullet holes in the bottom of one of the doors, maybe 4.  The top of it is missing because the police blew it open.  The other door had no bullet holes at all.

Draw your own conclusions.

If you want conspiracy theories go look them up on the internet, there are a bunch of them.  I have seen everything from the FBI was supplying guns to a terrorist organization (sort of like fast and furious) that went bad to it being a way for the owners of OSI Systems which sells security and inspection equipment and the Chertoff Group that does security and risk management to make billions when laws are written that they have to be in every casino, school, etc.   

The second one was proposed by an anonymous poster on 4chan and he warned about the attack in September and said it would happen in Las Vegas and to stay away from large gatherings.  He has since given more information but no way to know for sure if he just got lucky and is full of **** or if he is the real deal.   

ISIS has claimed responsibility three times and says they have a video of him swearing allegiance.  I don't tend to believe terrorist groups when they take credit for stuff with out proof but who knows.

Here is just one link about the theory.

http://www.stillnessinthestorm.com/2017/10/las-vegas-shooting-4chan-exposes-those-set-to-make-huge-profits-from-attacks-follow-the-money.html

I want to make clear I am not backing any of these theory's only that they are out there.   From the evidence we have so far I couldn't possibly tell you what exactly was going on.  I do however know there were at least two shooters and the FBI should know that easily by now.   


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Pekin

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12298 on: October 11, 2017, 04:22:52 pm »
http://truepundit.com/das-office-vegas-sheriff-is-fbi-puppet-covering-up-evidence-of-second-shooter-in-las-vegas-investigation/

Some of this evidence deals with forensic proof that a second shooter may have opened fire on the concert goers, the law enforcement source said.

When pressed for details on what specifically Lombardo and the FBI are covering up, the DA insider said local investigators, as well as retired law enforcement officers who have volunteered their expertise since the shootings, uncovered fairly impressive forensic evidence that an additional shooter was likely firing from a location closer to the concert crowd than shooter Stephen Paddock’s deadly perch at the Mandalay Bay.

Paddock, the DA insider said, was firing rounds from approximately 400 yards away from the concert from the 32nd floor on Mandalay Bay. The law enforcement source said investigators turned over proof to the FBI that a second shooter was firing from inside a perimeter of approximately 215 yards.
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method

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #12299 on: October 11, 2017, 05:22:37 pm »
Pekin, you are the reason the Russians are winning...
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