Author Topic: Politics, Religion, etc.  (Read 386882 times)

Pekin

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16290 on: December 12, 2018, 02:34:16 pm »
Exactly.  Some areas won't need a wall.  Where there is natural barriers they aren't needed.  Some areas will be fine with just fencing and drones with some border patrol.  The wall will stop them and make it more difficult.  It will make the border patrols job doable instead of an impossibility.  There was never ever going to be one big wall from one end of the border to the other.

Trump wants 5 billon.  That is peanuts compared to what the illegals are costing us.  And yes we need to allow workers to go back and forth but they need to be documented and it needs to be done legally. 

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16291 on: December 12, 2018, 06:43:13 pm »
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/julian-assange-clinton-foundation-isis-same-money-saudi-arabia-qatar-funding-a7397211.html?fbclid=IwAR3GCPzfejjfZiRvn5bhkMaxgU6mlDSqkZowKwG5PaSuC2e6C8fqj0KxNjg

Julian Assange: Isis and Clinton Foundation are both funded by Saudi Arabia and Qatar
‘This is the most significant email in the whole collection’
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 07:06:53 pm by Jes Beard »

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16292 on: December 12, 2018, 06:44:16 pm »
It is not an abuse of power to protect the border. Anyone suggesting differently is wrong and unrealistic. And one of the main duties of the POTUS is to protect the safety of the American citizens.

I don't believe I mentioned anything about "abuse of power."

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16293 on: December 12, 2018, 07:00:14 pm »
I believe that the posse committatus law prevents the military from performing law enforcement jobs such as arresting and detaining.  I don't think that building a wall on the border would come under any definition of that law that I have ever heard of.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1385
18 U.S. Code § 1385 - Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
(Added Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, § 18(a), 70A Stat. 626; amended Pub. L. 86–70, § 17(d), June 25, 1959, 73 Stat. 144; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

The original provision was enacted as Section 15 of chapter 263, of the Acts of the 2nd session of the 45th Congress.

Sec. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section and any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

So while you are unquestionably correct, and I am not going to defend the wording of my prior comment, it is not just the statute which is at issue, but also the precedent and tradition of not using the military for NON-military functions.  For example, we do not use the military to build highways in the U.S. simply as a means of holding down costs or to get things down quickly, even though the Corps of Engineers certainly has the expertise to do that, and we might not have any sort of combat operations at that time which would otherwise occupy the troops which might be used in road building.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16294 on: December 12, 2018, 07:04:14 pm »
I read an article once that the proposal for the wall would be appropriate for the location it was at, not one uniform wall all across the border. I expect much of it is speculation, you know they can’t read the bill until after it is signed!

You are correct.  None of those seriously pushing for the wall who would actually be involved in building it have been calling for a uniform wall over the entire border.  It would vary from area to area.

otto105

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16295 on: December 12, 2018, 08:23:14 pm »
BBBBWWWWWWAAAAHHHHHHHHH



On anyone posting rasty on the approval rating.


Say how accurate was rasty in 2018.....



BBBBBWWWAAAAXHHHHHHHH
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otto105

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16296 on: December 12, 2018, 08:24:28 pm »
Happy shiithole nothingburger



Yes, shut it down. Shut it all down...



Bbbbwwwaaaaaaahhhhhhh
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davep

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16297 on: December 12, 2018, 08:40:13 pm »
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1385
18 U.S. Code § 1385 - Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
(Added Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, § 18(a), 70A Stat. 626; amended Pub. L. 86–70, § 17(d), June 25, 1959, 73 Stat. 144; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

The original provision was enacted as Section 15 of chapter 263, of the Acts of the 2nd session of the 45th Congress.

Sec. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section and any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

So while you are unquestionably correct, and I am not going to defend the wording of my prior comment, it is not just the statute which is at issue, but also the precedent and tradition of not using the military for NON-military functions.  For example, we do not use the military to build highways in the U.S. simply as a means of holding down costs or to get things down quickly, even though the Corps of Engineers certainly has the expertise to do that, and we might not have any sort of combat operations at that time which would otherwise occupy the troops which might be used in road building.

First, let me state that at no time did I ever say that I thought the military would or should be used to build a wall on our border.  However, not only do I not see any statute against it, but there is also both historical and current precedents that seem to support the POSSIBILITY of it being done that way.  the military has often been used to supplement the border patrol in non-enforcement activities.  Not only is it currently being done under Trump, but in this century alone it has been done by both Obama and Bush II.  In addition, it has been common at least since I was involved in 1965, for local base commanders to authorize the Civil Engineers on base to perform "training exercises" that enrich the local population.  I was involved in the construction of two public parks in Glasgow, Montana in 1965 and 1966, leveling and grading the land, designing sidewalks and walkways, and even streets leading up to the parks.  I was not personally involved, but was aware of similar actions taking place in the area around Barksdale AFB in Shrevesport, LA and several ones in San Antonio, TX near Lackland AFB.  In addition, it is quite common for local bases to provide substantial assistance after tornados, hurricanes and other natural disasters, much before any formal legislation could be passed to authorize it.  If the current administration does not do it, and I don't think they will, it will be because of political, not legal reasons.

otto105

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16298 on: December 12, 2018, 09:43:10 pm »

Pekin

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16299 on: December 13, 2018, 03:00:51 am »
So the FBI agents who interviewed Flynn wrote and submitted their 302's 7 months after the interview.  WTF?


Like their memory of the interview would be any good at that point.  302's are supposed to be written immediately.

WshflThinking

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16300 on: December 13, 2018, 06:39:53 am »
I know Hillary Clinton is a criminal....Panama Papers? Hmmmmm

[https://www.americanlibertyreport.com/articles/panama-papers-arrests-linked-to-clinton-foundation-and-podesta/

Time to play pin the tail on the donkey.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16301 on: December 13, 2018, 07:44:08 am »
So the FBI agents who interviewed Flynn wrote and submitted their 302's 7 months after the interview.  WTF?


Like their memory of the interview would be any good at that point.  302's are supposed to be written immediately.


Yeah.... but they first had to decide just what they wanted to set Flynn up for.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16302 on: December 13, 2018, 07:58:11 am »
Though I am not actually dismissing any of this, I have to put it in the category of "I'll believe it when I see it."  https://www.americanlibertyreport.com/articles/panama-papers-arrests-linked-to-clinton-foundation-and-podesta/

WshflThinking

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16303 on: December 13, 2018, 10:07:39 am »

davep

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #16304 on: December 13, 2018, 11:29:01 am »
Both sides are always told that explosive information is about to be revealed.  No explosive information is ever revealed by either side.  Both sides always believe that the next time, things will be REALLY explosive.  You would think that at least one side or the other would learn.
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