Author Topic: Cubs Draft 2017  (Read 5627 times)

Jes Beard

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chgojhawk

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2017, 01:15:25 pm »
On one end, molesting a 6 year old family member could include playing doctor but the age disparity suggests that it was likely something more than that.  Yes, Heimlich was 15 years old.  He is just 21 now so he isn't that far removed from the legal process being completed.

Again, I am not deadset against drafting him.  I am confident that the front office will do their research and make logical decisions.  Every draftee has inherent risk of not making the majors for one reason or another.  Heimlich will face added pressure due to his past.  Think Ben Christensen on steroids type of situation.

Our front office is far more capable than most.  If they feel Heimlich is a good risk and deserving of a 2nd chance along with being a good person, then I am all for it (assuming that I will never find out what allegedly happened).  I am trusting that our management will make the right decision on this.

DUSTY

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2017, 01:30:01 pm »
So this dude loves up his 6 year old cousin just a few years ago and because we like his upside we're willing to just let this one slide but I'm bad for believing Addison Russell's word over some gold digger?

Lmao

chgojhawk

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2017, 02:18:28 pm »
Dusty, I'm guessing you weren't referring to me.  I would NOT draft him in any round IF I found out what he did and deemed it beyond reproach.  What I have said is that it is extremely unlikely that we will ever find out what he did.  As such we have no choice but to trust our front office and hope that they make a decision consistent with our individual beliefs and standards.  With 28 other big league teams (and the White Sox) it is unlikely that he will wind up in the Cubs org anyhow.

It may be best for the kid to play in a small market (if he even makes the MLB).

Reb

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2017, 02:33:06 pm »
There are explicit details of the incident in the original Portland Oregonian report, below.

Callis has a piece quoting a NL scout as saying he won't be drafted at all.

http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2017/06/luke_heimlich_sex_crime_surfac.html

davep

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2017, 02:42:53 pm »
From the article

Research shows that the vast majority of juveniles convicted of sex crimes do not reoffend in subsequent years.

After about three years, the likelihood of reoffending is "very small," said psychologist Michael Caldwell, who lectures at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

At five years, the recidivism rate for another sex crime hovers at 2.75 percent, according to a study that Caldwell published in 2016. That's because juvenile sex offenders tend to mature and respond well to intervention, Caldwell said. 

CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2017, 02:45:22 pm »
I did a lot of stupid things as teenager, but nothing close to that.  That is something that should ruin a career.  I don't see any resemblance to Russell at all. So far a post on instagram is the only accusation against Russell, where Hemiloch has an actual felony conviction.

Reb

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2017, 03:13:59 pm »
....That is something that should ruin a career.... 

Obviously, as to acts as a minor, it's way, way more complicated than "should ruin a career."  It depends.  Could this guy get certified as a doctor or lawyer, for example, down the road?  It depends. Maybe yes, maybe no. Here's the criteria recommended to state bar associations for lawyers by National conference of Bar Examiners:

"the applicant’s age at the time of the conduct, the recency of the conduct, the reliability of the
information concerning the conduct, the seriousness of the conduct, the cumulative effect of
conduct or information, the evidence of rehabilitation, the applicant’s positive social
contributions since the conduct, the applicant’s candor in the admissions process and the
materiality of any omissions or misrepresentations." Courts have often also
focused on whether the applicant expresses and demonstrated remorse. In order to be admitted to the bar
in such cases, the evidence of rehabilitation must show that the cause of applicant’s misconduct
has been eliminated, that such misconduct will therefore not recur, and that the applicant is
therefore currently fit to practice law.


MLB has a PR component to it.  Is it worth offending some fans by signing and playing a guy with this history?  Really doubt it's entirely a moral issue.  Clubs have to balance the PR hit and the conduct itself with maybe having a good player. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 03:16:25 pm by Reb »

DUSTY

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2017, 03:35:37 pm »
No player is good enough to drag around that baggage.

He'd get raped in prison for it.

Robb

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2017, 03:49:15 pm »
I'm all for burning guys at the stake, casting the first stone and all that, but condemning a guy forever for a mistake when he was a kid I am unwilling to do, unless he shows no sign of remorse.  I would hate to be judged for the rest of my life for the actions of my 14 year- old self.

CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2017, 03:49:27 pm »
I'm not going to speak for state medical associations, because their discisons can be to complicated. I would never refer a patient to another doctor with that type of conviction no matter how excellent they are. I'm comfortable with the standard that you abuse children that you shouldn't be a MLB player even if you are Mike Trout good.

Reb

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2017, 04:13:22 pm »
I'm not going to speak for state medical associations, because their discisons can be to complicated. I would never refer a patient to another doctor with that type of conviction no matter how excellent they are. I'm comfortable with the standard that you abuse children that you shouldn't be a MLB player even if you are Mike Trout good.

The guy was legally a child too. That's why it's complicated.

Professionals refer or don't refer to a specialist based on all kinds of subjective considerations, personal and otherwise. What matters on the question of "ruining a career" is the determination of the state governing body as whether the person is fit--- not whether one doctor wants to refer him. The latter is irrelevant.

As I said before, MLB has a PR element, as it should. It's a business. My own view is that MLB probably would use very similar criteria to those I posted above to determine eligibility. If he's eligible after applying all that, you are in a dream world if you think no clubs would sign a "Mike Trout good" player.

Assuming remorse, etc, think most Cubs fans would accept this guy as a TORP, Trout-like player.

Reb

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2017, 04:33:37 pm »
Then there's the case of Josh Lueke. See link below if you don't know his story.

Seems like if Lueke pitched in majors, maybe the kid gets a chance at some point. Maybe he has to go independent route first, if not drafted or signed. If he's a Trout-like TORP, he will be signed eventually. Could have to pass a high bar to get a chance.

http://deadspin.com/josh-lueke-is-a-rapist-pass-it-on-1566010458

Jes Beard

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2017, 07:42:21 pm »
No player is good enough to drag around that baggage.

He'd get raped in prison for it.

YOU would get raped in prison, just for being you.

Jes Beard

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Re: Cubs Draft 2017
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2017, 07:51:19 pm »
Then there's the case of Josh Lueke. See link below if you don't know his story.

Seems like if Lueke pitched in majors, maybe the kid gets a chance at some point. Maybe he has to go independent route first, if not drafted or signed. If he's a Trout-like TORP, he will be signed eventually. Could have to pass a high bar to get a chance.

http://deadspin.com/josh-lueke-is-a-rapist-pass-it-on-1566010458

if Lueke only pled guilty to false imprisonment, and the prosecution accepted that plea, it would appear that the prosecution was not comfortable with prosecuting him on that charge.  In other words, while his guilty please means you can legally safely and conclusively say he falsely imprisoned the woman.... that is quite a stretch from ****, and it is entirely possible that the prosecution could not even have gotten a conviction for that if it had gone to trial and that he was guilty of nothing, but accepted a plea agreement because it entirely eliminated the prospect of a **** conviction and a long prison sentence.