Author Topic: Cubs in '19 (Read 72424 times)

Deeg · « **Reply #630 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:03:11 pm »

Just a thought: maybe this stuff got out there because the Cubs wanted Bryant to hear it.

Olney never struck me as the sort of reporter who pulled stuff out of thin air just to get a headline. He’s always been fairly conservative when it comes to rumors, seems to me. He’s wrong a lot because they all are, but he’s better connected than most.

CUBluejays · « **Reply #631 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:18:36 pm »

Buster Olney
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It's all part of the business and the talks that go on between teams. There is nuance to the conversations between execs. It doesn't mean they're trading him; it doesn't mean they're intent on trading him. But they're making an assessment of what's possible.
@Buster_ESPN
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Replying to @pnutfinger
1. There aren't a lot of ways they feel like they can get younger/better for 2019. One of those might be a Bryant deal; they'll never know unless they gather info/hear offers.
2. Bryant/CHC haven't reached a long-term deal. if they had, they wouldn't talk KB trade at all.

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1. You have no idea if they might get better until you see what's possible. What if the Padres offered them a great, overpay package of young players?
2. You just provided context for convos -- if the Cubs believe, as you do, that he'll be a FA, then yes, they'll listen.

Pavel Dovsky
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Or the Rays with Archer, White Sox with Sale, Dbacks now with Goldschmidt. Yawn.
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Exactly.

So let's unpack Buster on twitter.

He's implying the Cubs are actively shopping Bryant. If this was happening this would be a much bigger story with National/Local guys being all over it.

The Padres offer Tatis, Gore etc.. Make it a real overpay. It still makes the 2019 Cubs, even if they sign Machado/Harper to replace him worse. Even with an injury plagued 2018. Here is the fWAR leaders ahead of Bryant from 2015-18. Bryant has 23.1 fWAR. Trout 35.6, Betts 28.7, Altuve 23.7.
The Rays/White Sox/Dbacks aren't in the group of teams competing for a World Series. If the Cubs trade Bryant they might as well just rebuild.

Reb · « **Reply #632 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:20:32 pm »

....To tag onto a later post it would be more accurate to say another team(s) believe the Cubs have a change in their approach to talks about Bryant. As no Cub source has deviated from we have no untouchables.

You keep saying that it's only some kind of subjective "belief" by the source...but that is highly unlikely given Buster's professionalism. A good journalist is going to press for details to his source(s): what did they say to you, specifically. Tell me the words. who said it. Directly or what format?

If somebody is only giving some kind of "belief" divorced from facts, rather than relaying what Cubs are actually saying, Buster is not going to find that worthy of a story, I'm confident.

Buster is saying Cubs are encouraging clubs to make an offer, if the club wants to. They've never done that before, he says, which strikes me as very likely true. Would they do that a year ago? Can't imagine.

As to Cubs "actively listening"---Buster is not saying they have anything to listen to, yet. Says encouraging to make an offer if clubs interested. Maybe (probably), nothing heats up for local guys to report about. It's the difference between soliciting an offer and actually having an offer to actively consider.

craig · « **Reply #633 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:21:22 pm »

Quote from: Deeg on November 13, 2018, 10:03:11 pm

Just a thought: maybe this stuff got out there because the Cubs wanted Bryant to hear it.

Good point. Guy totally trusts his agent to do whatever agent deems best. But maybe guy really likes it here, and doesn't actually want to go. Perhaps some media that if you want to stay, you may want to communicate that to your agent, and have a voice in where your career and contract goes?

Some other thoughts:
1. Is it possible that Theo who wants all the passion and urgency and wants guys trying harder, thinks Bryant is too quiet and calm? Not quite the urgency and fire that Theo ideally prefers in the clubhouse? Too much nice, not enough fire?
2. Is it possible that Theo thinks, as Chili expressed re some Cub hitters, that pitchers have a method against Bryant, and that Bryant may never be able to hit HR's like the 39 he hit in 2016?
3. Is it possible that Theo is concerned that Kris will now need to stick with the two-handed follow-through to stay healthy; and that if so that he may not have MVP 39-HR-power again?

CUBluejays · « **Reply #634 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:29:00 pm »

From Mooney
"To be clear, sources said the Cubs aren’t shopping Bryant or planning to deal him as the first move that completely reimagines this team. President of baseball operations Theo Epstein already issued denials to the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times, dismissing last week’s ESPN report and signaling the Cubs will continue building around Bryant."

"Tribune baseball columnist Paul Sullivan pressed Epstein with another follow-up question: But do you want some players to maybe think “I better get my **** together” this offseason?

No, I don’t believe in sending messages through the media,” Epstein said. “Or your exact quote was ‘I better get my **** together’ or something. I don’t believe in that. I just believe in communicating — not in the media — directly with players about where we think they should be at in their careers. And validate the things we’re doing really well and identify things they need to do better and try to work with them to make sure that happens."

Deeg · « **Reply #635 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:31:10 pm »

Quote from: craig on November 13, 2018, 10:21:22 pm

Good point. Guy totally trusts his agent to do whatever agent deems best. But maybe guy really likes it here, and doesn't actually want to go. Perhaps some media that if you want to stay, you may want to communicate that to your agent, and have a voice in where your career and contract goes?

Some other thoughts:
1. Is it possible that Theo who wants all the passion and urgency and wants guys trying harder, thinks Bryant is too quiet and calm? Not quite the urgency and fire that Theo ideally prefers in the clubhouse? Too much nice, not enough fire?
2. Is it possible that Theo thinks, as Chili expressed re some Cub hitters, that pitchers have a method against Bryant, and that Bryant may never be able to hit HR's like the 39 he hit in 2016?
3. Is it possible that Theo is concerned that Kris will now need to stick with the two-handed follow-through to stay healthy; and that if so that he may not have MVP 39-HR-power again?

1. Yes/yes/yes
2. Probably not
3. Yes

IMHO...

Deeg · « **Reply #636 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:33:07 pm »

Quote from: CUBluejays on November 13, 2018, 10:29:00 pm

From Mooney
"To be clear, sources said the Cubs aren’t shopping Bryant or planning to deal him as the first move that completely reimagines this team. President of baseball operations Theo Epstein already issued denials to the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times, dismissing last week’s ESPN report and signaling the Cubs will continue building around Bryant."

"Tribune baseball columnist Paul Sullivan pressed Epstein with another follow-up question: But do you want some players to maybe think “I better get my **** together” this offseason?

No, I don’t believe in sending messages through the media,” Epstein said. “Or your exact quote was ‘I better get my **** together’ or something. I don’t believe in that. I just believe in communicating — not in the media — directly with players about where we think they should be at in their careers. And validate the things we’re doing really well and identify things they need to do better and try to work with them to make sure that happens."

Because of course if Theo were sending a message through the media he’d admit it...

Reb · « **Reply #637 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:33:31 pm »

Buster isn't saying or implying "actively shopping" Bryant.

If he was saying that, he wouldn't have said: "it doesn't mean they're intent on trading him."

He is saying Cubs are encouraging clubs to make an offer, if the other clubs see fit to do that. Then, if they get an offer(s), they'll evaluate the offer and have discussions about it. To me, "actively shopping" means the club wants to move the guy and will do so if get near 100 cents on the dollar.

In previous years, they have not encouraged anybody to make an offer. That's the difference.

When you say "actively shopping," that is the kind of gloss I referred to previously that is beyond what Buster is reporting.

CUBluejays · « **Reply #638 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:37:55 pm »

Quote from: craig on November 13, 2018, 10:21:22 pm

Some other thoughts:
1. Is it possible that Theo who wants all the passion and urgency and wants guys trying harder, thinks Bryant is too quiet and calm? Not quite the urgency and fire that Theo ideally prefers in the clubhouse? Too much nice, not enough fire?
2. Is it possible that Theo thinks, as Chili expressed re some Cub hitters, that pitchers have a method against Bryant, and that Bryant may never be able to hit HR's like the 39 he hit in 2016?
3. Is it possible that Theo is concerned that Kris will now need to stick with the two-handed follow-through to stay healthy; and that if so that he may not have MVP 39-HR-power again?

1) Maybe, but I kinda doubt it
2.) Bryant before the injury had more walks than strike outs and was hitting for power. He was amazing.
3.) In another pitch to why the Athletic is better. Sharma had an excellent piece on hitters with shoulder injuries similar to Bryant and how they did the next year. The returned to their previous career norms. As longs as Bryant doesn't need surgery he will be fine. If he needed surgery it would be a much bigger issue.

Reb · « **Reply #639 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:42:11 pm »

Regarding Jeff's hypothetical trade with Rockies--have read that Rockies are crazy about Dahl, love him. So, can't see that. Talk about a Coors home field guy. His splits are WIDE.

Arenado, including what Dusty noted, I could see that a year from now when Arenado hits free agency. (Or, even now if Arenado signed an extension). CBJ has raised legit points about his home/road but think we can all agree that Arenado is a wonderful player. Think he's near the top end of the most likely future HOFers among the younger guys around today. So, when Bryant is two years away from FA a year from now---could see going after Arenado.

CUBluejays · « **Reply #640 on:** November 13, 2018, 10:53:31 pm »

Quote from: Reb on November 13, 2018, 10:33:31 pm

Buster isn't saying or implying "actively shopping" Bryant.

If he was saying that, he wouldn't have said: "it doesn't mean they're intent on trading him."

He is saying Cubs are encouraging clubs to make an offer, if the other clubs see fit to do that. Then, if they get an offer(s), they'll evaluate the offer and have discussions about it. To me, "actively shopping" means the club wants to move the guy and will do so if get near 100 cents on the dollar.

In previous years, they have not encouraged anybody to make an offer. That's the difference.

When you say "actively shopping," that is the kind of gloss I referred to previously that is beyond what Buster is reporting.

What would you call "encouraging offers?" That is more than passively listening. Encouraging offers is a far more active stance for the Cubs front office.
Buster probably said that they weren't intent on trading him as CYA. If the Cubs don't trade Bryant, and World Series contenders don't trade Bryant level players, he would get this thrown back at him constantly. He now has an out of saying, I never said they were actually going to do it.

Quote from: Deeg on November 13, 2018, 10:33:07 pm

Because of course if Theo were sending a message through the media he’d admit it...

Theo truly is an evil genius, he got another front office to leak that the Cubs where shopping Bryant to light a fire under Bryant.

Reb · « **Reply #641 on:** November 13, 2018, 11:02:35 pm »

Look, Bryant is a great player. His fire and passion? Come on, give me a break. And, no, pitchers have not figured out how to solve him. And, no, we don't know with certainty that the shoulder will be fine. Very likely will be fine, but can't know for sure. Not much in baseball is for sure. All, basically, non-issues, I think, regarding the off-season.

Whatever Cubs are actually contemplating as to Bryant and his future Cubs tenure---Cubs are going to school on the Bryce Harper situation playing out today. Boras, check, great players, check, current club loves the player, check, current club willing to go over the luxury tax,check. Now, Nats very, very likely to see Harper leave. Bryant, check, three years from now say goodbye?

So, clubs out there, make me an offer on Bryant. See what's out there. If there's a good baseball move at some point (including signing Arenado to play 3B a year from now), Cubs want to know their options. Different than a year ago because we're getting closer to Bryant FA and Cubs have not won the World Series two years running...and that's too long for the New Cubs Tradition.

Ron · « **Reply #642 on:** November 13, 2018, 11:06:30 pm »

Quote from: craig on November 13, 2018, 10:21:22 pm

Good point. Guy totally trusts his agent to do whatever agent deems best. But maybe guy really likes it here, and doesn't actually want to go. Perhaps some media that if you want to stay, you may want to communicate that to your agent, and have a voice in where your career and contract goes?

Some other thoughts:
1. Is it possible that Theo who wants all the passion and urgency and wants guys trying harder, thinks Bryant is too quiet and calm? Not quite the urgency and fire that Theo ideally prefers in the clubhouse? Too much nice, not enough fire?
2. Is it possible that Theo thinks, as Chili expressed re some Cub hitters, that pitchers have a method against Bryant, and that Bryant may never be able to hit HR's like the 39 he hit in 2016?
3. Is it possible that Theo is concerned that Kris will now need to stick with the two-handed follow-through to stay healthy; and that if so that he may not have MVP 39-HR-power again?

1. No. Theo isn't going to expect everybody to have a big voice. No one questions Bryant's devotion and hard work.
2. No. Chili got fired. He's the guy who Theo decided needed to go, not Bryant. Theo has never waivered from "launch angle" and he's made that clear.
3. Very doubtful - Bryant was only using the two-handed swing in BP, not during games, so that seems very, very far fetched.

I really do think there is WAY too much being made of this stuff. A function, I suppose, of there nothing actually happening right now.

Reb · « **Reply #643 on:** November 13, 2018, 11:17:21 pm »

Buster is today saying that Cubs not intent on trading Bryant because it is totally consistent with the initial report. Not a CYA at all. He's responding to those who are blowing up what he said to be something more than what he said.

Yes, "encouraging offers" is more than "passively listening." But, you characterized Buster as saying "actively shopping." The key word there is "shopping." (Isn't "shopping" always active? What is passive shopping?).

Think we all know what actively shopping generally means. You go into the store and you intend to come out of the store with something you didn't have before. Not what Buster is saying.

Don't know why what Buster is actually saying is so hard to fathom. There are reasons why they might want to do what Buster says they are doing. It's a narrow point. But, it's a change from before and, given Bryant's stature, it's newsworthy, I think.

CUBluejays · « **Reply #644 on:** November 13, 2018, 11:19:00 pm »

Quote from: Reb on November 13, 2018, 11:02:35 pm

. And, no, we don't know with certainty that the shoulder will be fine. Very likely will be fine, but can't know for sure. Not much in baseball is for sure.

We don't know for certainty that the team plane won't crash killing all on board either, so what is the point of this.

Quote from: Reb on November 13, 2018, 11:02:35 pm

Whatever Cubs are actually contemplating as to Bryant and his future Cubs tenure---Cubs are going to school on the Bryce Harper situation playing out today. Boras, check, great players, check, current club loves the player, check, current club willing to go over the luxury tax,check. Now, Nats very, very likely to see Harper leave. Bryant, check, three years from now say goodbye?

Every other team with World Series dreams keeps their best players. If the Cubs blow up like the Nationals did in Bryant's freee agent year, maybe that is a reason to trade him at the deadline, but if you are contending getting rid of him makes the team worse.

Quote from: Reb on November 13, 2018, 11:02:35 pm

So, clubs out there, make me an offer on Bryant. See what's out there. If there's a good baseball move at some point (including signing Arenado to play 3B a year from now), Cubs want to know their options. Different than a year ago because we're getting closer to Bryant FA and Cubs have not won the World Series two years running...and that's too long for the New Cubs Tradition.

Carlos Correa also said he won't sign an extension. I'll wait for Astros should trade him articles because he might leave and all they'd get are a draft pick.

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