Author Topic: Cubs in '20  (Read 49260 times)

Bennett

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #120 on: October 02, 2019, 06:40:54 pm »
If fan favorite Ryne Sandberg was told to get some minor league managerial experience, why wouldn't that apply to David Ross as well?

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #121 on: October 02, 2019, 06:42:48 pm »
If fan favorite Ryne Sandberg was told to get some minor league managerial experience, why wouldn't that apply to David Ross as well?

Because the Cubs never wanted Sandberg as their manager but wanted to find a way not to have to say that outright?
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Ron

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #122 on: October 02, 2019, 07:16:02 pm »
Because the Cubs never wanted Sandberg as their manager but wanted to find a way not to have to say that outright?

There was also a different GM then (Jim Hendry).

JeffH

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #123 on: October 02, 2019, 07:48:20 pm »
There was also a different GM then (Jim Hendry).

I don't think so.  Theo was already in place.
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brjones

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #124 on: October 02, 2019, 07:54:49 pm »
Sandberg’s last year managing in the Cubs system was 2010. Hendry gave Quade the full time job over Sandberg.

Theo probably wouldn’t have even gone through the motions of letting him manage in the minors.
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Ron

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #125 on: October 02, 2019, 11:17:29 pm »
I’ve always been kind of fond of Joe Girardi. He always seemed like a smart guy and there was something about him that made me fond of him. There was a time, under Hendry, that I would have loved to have had Girardi manage the Cubs.  However, since Theo took over the Cubs’ and brought a very different approach to the organization and the team, I’ve believed that Girardi is not a good match for the team. My general impression has been that he's too old school for this organization. But I want to be open minded, and I listened to today’s Dave Kaplan interview with Girardi.

https://art19.com/shows/cubs-talk-podcast/episodes/1ceb1f2d-03ed-4b38-85b3-933520351461

Among Girardi’s comments were that he’s always been a “big believer that numbers tell a story over time,” as someone trained to be an engineer, he’s always used numbers a lot. He said as a manager, he did everything analytically, using instinct sometimes, but numbers don’t lie over time. He said that now you have a lot of people looking more deeply into stuff, and that you want that information in front of you to help you prepare and make decisions.
I think that’s all pretty believable and a good point in his favor. The fact that he was reputed to have problems communicating with younger players on the Yankees (if true, but who knows?) certainly is not in his favor.

He also talked about the importance of having a culture of accountability in the clubhouse – I think he emphasized the players role in that.

I’m still skeptical that he’s the guy Theo will want, but I recognize that my perspective is very, very limited on Girardi’s managerial approach and on how Theo views, or will view him if he is a candidate.

JR

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #126 on: October 02, 2019, 11:28:25 pm »
I'm rooting for Girardi myself.  He's a smart guy, been part of a winning culture and a winning organization for a long time, averaged 91 wins a year and won a World Series as a manager, etc.  I think a change in the relatively laid back Maddon culture would be a good thing, and I think Girardi could bring it. 

Honestly I'm fine that he's not a walking version of Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus.  I think teams or managers can be too over analytical with that. 

He's pretty much already what you hope David Ross turns into if Ross begins a managerial career.  Ross would be fine by me, by the way, but Girardi's proven, already been well tested and wouldn't need any on the job training.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 11:33:40 pm by JR »

Dave23

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #127 on: October 02, 2019, 11:35:13 pm »
The job has been Girardi’s destiny since the day Darryl Kile died.
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CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #128 on: October 02, 2019, 11:53:40 pm »
If they hire Girardi hopefully they kept a copy of Millennials for Dummies.

If you want to catch the Dodgers or Astros you need to pretty much have somebody that can take the analytics digest it and spit it out to their players in terms that they can use and be on the same wave length as the front office. That isn’t Girardi.

Cashmen when he fired him said he couldn’t connect to the players. He was rumored to ignore the stuff that the front office was giving him analytics wise. The Cubs just walked away from a guy who mixed old school with analytics and had trouble connecting with younger players. You guys really want to do that again?

My favorite millennial philosopher, “Let the past die, kill it.”

That is a recipe for more third place finishes.

craig

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #129 on: October 02, 2019, 11:55:27 pm »


Going back to Theo's press conference, at ~19:00.  I was really interested and somewhat clueless about what Theo is talking about.

"There were real efforts made last offseason, real um unconventional methods, methods that never want to have to do again to be honest with you to try to reach guys, and they were coming from the players, as well, players identified areas of concern, areas where we needed to try to do things differently.  And there was good healthy conversation about that.  The vast majority of it remained confidential, behind the scenes, I think there was good intentions and good effort, but in in the end that kind of change is really difficult especially with tremendous continuity, and I think that's one of the reason were really embracing a lot of change now."

Any ideas what he's talking about and what any of this means? 
1. He refers to "guys", plural.  So, apparently not just Addison's deal. 
2.  "To try to reach guys" is pejorative.  Is he thinking baseball skills, here?  (Edwards' weird pitch delivery?  Happ to the minors?)  Mechanical baseball things?  Or off-field behaviors (wine women and song)?  Non-game skills-improvement commitments?  Things related to "dominating the strike zone" or lack thereof?  Interpersonal conflicts within the team?  Team stuff, wanting more scheduled practices together or team building together activities?  Is he "trying to reach" players, or coaches? 
3.  "there was good intentions, but that kind of change is really difficult".  Again, hard to know whether that's practice habits, problems with alcohol consumption, situational swing adjustment, whether it's about holding more team practices, or whether it's mechanical adjustments needed for the Edwards and Happs of the team?   
4.  "Unconventional methods... that never want to have to do again to be honest with you". 

Just curious if you guys had thoughts on that bit?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 11:58:09 pm by craig »

Ron

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #130 on: October 03, 2019, 12:13:49 am »
craig - That part of the press conference got my attention as well. Seemed very cryptic. No idea what he was talking about though.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #131 on: October 03, 2019, 12:56:24 am »
I'm rooting for Girardi myself.  He's a smart guy, been part of a winning culture and a winning organization for a long time, averaged 91 wins a year and won a World Series as a manager, etc.  I think a change in the relatively laid back Maddon culture would be a good thing, and I think Girardi could bring it. 

Honestly I'm fine that he's not a walking version of Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus.  I think teams or managers can be too over analytical with that. 

He's pretty much already what you hope David Ross turns into if Ross begins a managerial career.  Ross would be fine by me, by the way, but Girardi's proven, already been well tested and wouldn't need any on the job training.

I don't know if I'm ready to say Girardi is my #1 choice, but the overwhelming negativity towards him baffles me.  He's not anti-advanced stats, he's got a hell of a track record as a manager (as measured both by wins/losses and managerial "advanced stats") and he has a history with the organization.  If you want to change the culture in the clubhouse and maximize chances of getting back to the WS in this window, you could make a damn good case Girardi gives you a better shot than any of the rookies for whom the training would be on-the-job.

My gut still tells me that Ibanez is the guy to watch, and there are other names who haven't been discussed much (like Farrell) who have a shot.  But I think Girardi is very much in the mix for Theo, and if he had reason to think otherwise he'd already be managing somewhere else.
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Reb

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #132 on: October 03, 2019, 01:35:55 am »
craig - That part of the press conference got my attention as well. Seemed very cryptic. No idea what he was talking about though.

My guess is that there was some kind of club effort last off-season to get some players to step up and take more of a clubhouse leadership role for 2019—that didn’t really happen. Context of Theo’s remarks are about leadership. Must include dealing with Russell’s issues, among other things. Maybe teammates got involved. Theo says confidential, behind the scenes, so by definition we’re not supposed to know. But Theo could not be more clear regarding greater accountability for mistakes in 2020 and that probably includes players of course and ways to get them more involved in fixing things internally, I would think.

Regarding the manager, If Girardi wants the job he ought to stop lobbying for the position with Chicago media, which won’t impress Theo. Suggests to me that Girardi probably isn’t getting any feedback from within the Cubs and wants to keep his name alive from the outside. Good luck with that. Doubt that he’ll be a serious candidate, but who knows.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #133 on: October 03, 2019, 02:32:00 am »
Yeah, he should do like Ross and lobby through the national media.

chgojhawk

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #134 on: October 03, 2019, 06:23:52 am »
Girardi has teenagers. His oldest may even be in his early 20s now. I’m sure he is familiar with millennials.