Author Topic: Cubs in '20  (Read 49109 times)

brjones

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1170 on: December 10, 2019, 12:24:50 pm »
I've seen suggestions on other boards that the Cubs should try to get Trea Turner for Bryant if they deal with the Nationals. They have Kieboom ready to take over at shortstop, and Robles or Eaton could hit leadoff for them. So if the Nationals are concerned about their payroll, I could see that working for them.

If the Cubs are going to try to trade Bryant and get under the luxury tax but still compete in 2020, a deal like that might be their best option.
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craig

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1171 on: December 10, 2019, 12:42:39 pm »
Paraphrasing Jeff Passan on ESPN: Everyone in the lobby believes Kris Bryant is the guy who is gonna move. But the Cubs aren't going to trade him unless it's a huge offer.....

Logical inconsistency. 

If the premise is that the Cubs require a "huge" offer for Bryant and an "absurd" offer for Willson, the conclusion that there will be a trade is not logical.

Of course it's possible that somebody will make a "huge" offer; or that the Cubs will settle for a less-than-huge, less-than-absurd offer. 

But I still think that it's more likely than not that we'll be back with all four of Bryant, Willson, Baez, and Schwarber.

 



CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1172 on: December 10, 2019, 12:49:15 pm »
I've seen suggestions on other boards that the Cubs should try to get Trea Turner for Bryant if they deal with the Nationals. They have Kieboom ready to take over at shortstop, and Robles or Eaton could hit leadoff for them. So if the Nationals are concerned about their payroll, I could see that working for them.

If the Cubs are going to try to trade Bryant and get under the luxury tax but still compete in 2020, a deal like that might be their best option.

Is that a Cubs board or a Nationals board.  I can see the Cubs wanting Turner, I can't see the Nationals trading him.

davep

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1173 on: December 10, 2019, 01:00:47 pm »
I'm not convinced trading Bryant cancels 2020 until I see the return.  But if (and that's obviously a big if) Jesse Rogers' description is correct, I really do think it makes more sense to go whole hog with a rebuild.  If you're going to make payroll-driven trades for Bryant and Contreras which clearly won't feature any players as good right now coming back, and you aren't going to go out and spend in FA, the upcoming season is pretty much toast. 

You have to make a choice.  If you trade Bryant for someone exactly as good right now, you do not improve the team right now.  But to take the suggested trade to Atlanta for instance, getting back Max Fried would help the pitching staff, which is by far the weakest link of the team, as well as bringing back a couple of good prospects that can help the team after the upcoming free agent cliff after 2001. 

I don't subscribe that we must either win the World Series, or we are total failures.  There are times that it is appropriate to dismantle the team and start over on a new 5 year plan, but I don't see that as necessary at this time.  With minor adjustments in the free agent market, In my opinion the Cubs will have a high probability to make the playoffs.  That, to me, is a successful team.

guest61

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1174 on: December 10, 2019, 03:24:38 pm »
Asked several times if the Cubs and Bryant have had serious talks about an extension, Scott Boras sidestepped the question: “We communicate with the Cubs constantly. Our doors are open…and more than willing to discuss anything like that on a long term basis.”

Boras on the idea of a player like Kris Bryant getting moved: “It’s hard to think how you ever replace them, and so when you get into those (elite) levels, historically, it’s normally not something that’s done.”

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1175 on: December 10, 2019, 03:31:58 pm »

A lot of angst over Bryant who has dropped in the pecking order of 3B's.

Top 20 third basemen for 2020
1   
Nolan Arenado Colorado Rockies 3B
If we're talking more of a points-league context or any format that rewards walks or on-base percentage, it might be time to drop Nolan Arenado behind Alex Bregman and Anthony Rendon, who both have him beat in that regard. But in traditional 5x5 categories scoring, he can do no wrong playing half his games at Coors Field, remaining a perennial triple crown threat and four-category stud.
2   
Alex Bregman Houston Astros 3B
Now proven as a power hitter twice over, Bregman only lags behind Arenado in batting average, but given that he actually strikes out less, it won't take much for him to catch up there either. Hitters who walk more than they strike out are rare in today's game, and the gap between the two numbers seems to widen every year for Bregman, which makes him a no-doubt first-rounder in points leagues.
3   
Anthony Rendon Washington Nationals 3B
For a second straight year, Anthony Rendon was the top third baseman in terms of Head-to-Head points per game, but the reason it may come as a surprise to you is because he always seems to miss a chunk of games. Of course, the gap was so wide this year that those health concerns alone aren't reason enough to downgrade him, but the power increase at age 29 isn't something you can just assume he'll repeat.
4   
Rafael Devers Boston Red Sox 3B
Though 2019 was obviously a massive breakout for the 22-year-old, who could continue to get better from here, Rafael Devers' elite standing is in question after a bumpy finish. If the composition of the Red Sox roster changes a great deal this offseason, which is certainly possible with a regime change, it could chip away at his massive RBI and run totals, and I wouldn't say he's a surefire .300 hitter yet. But overall, you have to like the direction he's headed.
5   
Jose Ramirez Cleveland Indians 3B
Those who worship at the altar of the stolen base will most likely draft Jose Ramirez ahead of Devers, and there's a case to be made for going that route in a points league as well. Ramirez has incredible contact skills and was the consensus third overall pick heading into this year. But even though he appeared to return to that form in July, I can't help but downgrade him for the near year-long stretch in which he hit about .200, especially since it ended just as unpredictably as it began.
6   
Kris Bryant Chicago Cubs 3B
Kris Bryant has built up enough legacy points to retain this high ranking, but he's on thin ice at a position where about a dozen bats are angling to overtake him. It's not that he's bad now, but he's been playing banged up the past couple years and has struggled to regain the power production that seemed so natural at the start of his career, propelling him to NL MVP in Year 2. Particularly in formats that don't reward his on-base skills, he may not be anything special in this environment.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1176 on: December 10, 2019, 03:32:27 pm »
Verdurgo is a solid player. Look at the Dodgers with Bryant.  Bellinger, Bryant, Seager, Muncy, Turner, Smith, Lux as positional talent. Buhler, Kershaw, May, Urias in the rotation. No shot the Cubs compete against that team.

We're not competing against the Dodgers whether we trade them Bryant or not - let's be honest.  This club can't be a real threat without some major spending which we pretty much know isn't coming.  So you can sit on all your guys and lose them for nothing after 2021, or get the best young talent you can for them now.  Considering his age, to conclude Verdugo will never be more than a solid player seems rash to me. 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 04:46:46 pm by Deeg »

Reb

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1177 on: December 10, 2019, 04:04:23 pm »
I've seen suggestions on other boards that the Cubs should try to get Trea Turner for Bryant if they deal with the Nationals. They have Kieboom ready to take over at shortstop, and Robles or Eaton could hit leadoff for them. So if the Nationals are concerned about their payroll, I could see that working for them.

If the Cubs are going to try to trade Bryant and get under the luxury tax but still compete in 2020, a deal like that might be their best option.

Kieboom is not a major league SS--saw him play there early in the season and that's not where his future will be.  It's at 2B or maybe 3B.

So, highly unlikely that Nats would trade Trea Turner. 
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CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1178 on: December 10, 2019, 04:10:53 pm »
We're not competing against the Dodgerd whether we trade them Bryant or not - let's be honest.  This club can't be a real threat without some major spending which we pretty much know isn't coming.  So you can sit on all your guys and lose them for nothing after 2021, or get the best young talent you can for them now.  Considering his age, to conclude Verdugo will never be more than a solid player seems rash to me. 

Cubs with Bryant, Baez, Rizzo, Schwarber et al. can keep you competition with most teams especially if you can improve the pitching.  If you can't compete with the Dodgers then just burn it to the ground.  I'd rather suck and hope for the future than bee stuck in .500 limbo.

Verdurgo in the minors expect for rookie ball and 96 PA in A+ ball has been 108 to 128 wRC+ guy.  His highest ISO above rookie ball .143, which is similar to Almora.  He started to walk a little more in 2017/18, but he had a 6.9% BB% last year.  He's a guy that doesn't strike out, hasn't hit for power other than last year with a juiced ball, and doesn't walk a ton.  His defense was ok in CF last year and he doesn't steal a ton.  He would have to hit a ton more power to become something more. 

On the Cubs talk podcast Tony Andracki thinks the Cubs need to cut $6-8 million before signing people plus additional money to sign people.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 04:17:40 pm by CUBluejays »

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1179 on: December 10, 2019, 04:48:53 pm »
Cubs with Bryant, Baez, Rizzo, Schwarber et al. can keep you competition with most teams especially if you can improve the pitching.  If you can't compete with the Dodgers then just burn it to the ground.  I'd rather suck and hope for the future than bee stuck in .500 limbo.

Verdurgo in the minors expect for rookie ball and 96 PA in A+ ball has been 108 to 128 wRC+ guy.  His highest ISO above rookie ball .143, which is similar to Almora.  He started to walk a little more in 2017/18, but he had a 6.9% BB% last year.  He's a guy that doesn't strike out, hasn't hit for power other than last year with a juiced ball, and doesn't walk a ton.  His defense was ok in CF last year and he doesn't steal a ton.  He would have to hit a ton more power to become something more. 

On the Cubs talk podcast Tony Andracki thinks the Cubs need to cut $6-8 million before signing people plus additional money to sign people.

Without dramatically improving the pitching you’re not going to compete for the WS with this everyday lineup as constructed.  And how are you going to dramatically improve the pitching without trading anybody or spending any money?

CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1180 on: December 10, 2019, 04:52:30 pm »
Trade Contreras and spending money would be my plan.

Appearantly the Cubs aren't allowed to spend, so I'd just burn it down and restart from scratch.  Let Ricketts save up some money for the the next time the Cubs get good.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1181 on: December 10, 2019, 04:54:37 pm »
Assuming Ricketts ever plans to spend big again is a big leap to me. 

guest61

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1182 on: December 10, 2019, 05:33:11 pm »
God this place is depressing.


CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in '20
« Reply #1184 on: December 10, 2019, 06:04:24 pm »
God this place is depressing.
Dusty, here on the board, it's okay just to call me Curt.