Author Topic: Cubs in ‘23  (Read 20828 times)

Reb

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #435 on: November 30, 2022, 12:57:53 am »
The off season will be considered a success or failure depending upon how the team performs over the next three years or so.

Judgments will be made before a pitch is even thrown.

davep

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #436 on: November 30, 2022, 02:41:33 pm »
The key word is judgementS.  I doubt very much that there will be a consensus.

craig

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #437 on: November 30, 2022, 03:29:03 pm »
Dave, I think there will be a predominant consensus.  And that will be "Hoyer failed, the Cubs didn't do enough, the Cubs didn't spend enough"

I doubt we need to wait till March to anticipate that!

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #438 on: November 30, 2022, 03:43:20 pm »
Dave, I think there will be a predominant consensus.  And that will be "Hoyer failed, the Cubs didn't do enough, the Cubs didn't spend enough"

I doubt we need to wait till March to anticipate that!

Signing one of deGrom/Verlander/Rodon would be every bit as much a perception driver as one of the top SS.

If the Cubs are in a position where perception is their enemy, it's their own fault for tanking for two years despite being one of the most profitable franchises in sports.  The reality is that the only way they can compete next year is by addressing many different weaknesses this winter - as constructed they're a pretty bad team.  You need at least two impact bats (preferably LH), a CF, a TORP, an experienced closer, a catcher.  Setting perception aside I'm not sure if it's even realistic to expect them to do that.

Reb

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #439 on: November 30, 2022, 04:04:59 pm »
One of the SSs is realistic.

Verlander or deGrom probably is not.

Rodon borderline realistic but can’t see Hoyer going big total dollars for a pitcher with injury history like Rodon.

Expectations are for one of the SSs.

Raised matter of perception of successful/unsuccessful off-season because wonder if this might have some actual influence on Hoyer. If he signs a SS, Cubs can claim a successful off-season. One might think that kind of perception benefits Hoyer in comparison to a no-SS unsuccessful perception off-season.

Maybe Hoyer never thinks in those terms, who knows, but hoping it influences him to the point that he actually signs one of these guys.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #440 on: November 30, 2022, 04:28:50 pm »
Yes, that would be nice. Better to have them do the right thing for the wrong reason than not at all.

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #441 on: November 30, 2022, 04:51:23 pm »
Dave, I think there will be a predominant consensus.  And that will be "Hoyer failed, the Cubs didn't do enough, the Cubs didn't spend enough"

I doubt we need to wait till March to anticipate that!
That's the spirit, craig! 

I agree with the assessment that Hoyer should have overpaid by now for a FA, doesn't matter which one, just to serve notice that the Cubs are serious about contending.  It could make all the difference in attracting one or two more of the top FA's.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #442 on: November 30, 2022, 04:58:56 pm »

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #443 on: November 30, 2022, 05:03:08 pm »
Rival execs expressing voluminous skepticism about the Cubs being serious buyers.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35139041/mlb-offseason-free-agency-survey-baseball-insiders-predictions-signings-trades
Yeah, I saw that article.  That's why I made the above comment.  If this idea is being shared to agents and players, it cripples any attempt to build.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #444 on: November 30, 2022, 05:34:16 pm »
Yeah, I saw that article.  That's why I made the above comment.  If this idea is being shared to agents and players, it cripples any attempt to build.

This is clearly the Cubs current rep in the business - rival execs are the ones who’d know.  And you’re right, it will stay that way until they do something to change it.  Ricketts has earned his reputation for frugality but it goes deeper than that.  Theo didn’t have to prove his seriousness to anybody - he was a known quantity.  Hoyer is not - he’s done nothing to convince any agent or rival exec that he’s a big fish.  And while it’s neither here nor there, his extremely quiet demeanor and lack of presence doesn’t help in the perception department.

There’s one way to change all that, and one way only.  The onus is on them to exercise that option.

DUSTY

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #445 on: December 01, 2022, 10:04:23 am »
Bob Nightengale says the Cubs have strong interest in Christian Vasquez.

Dave23

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #446 on: December 01, 2022, 11:32:10 am »
Old news…

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #447 on: December 01, 2022, 11:39:54 am »
Javier Baez is a player ESPN has identified as benefiting from a change of scenery.  I can see the Cubs missing out on all 4 shortstops and trading for Baez as a door prize to keep the fans happy.  With hoopla and a couple of impactless other adds, they can self claim a successful off-season.

Playtwo

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #448 on: December 01, 2022, 11:42:23 am »
I plan to wait until management actually fails to make impactful moves before griping about their trying to save face.
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CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #449 on: December 01, 2022, 11:46:55 am »
Javier Baez is a player ESPN has identified as benefiting from a change of scenery.  I can see the Cubs missing out on all 4 shortstops and trading for Baez as a door prize to keep the fans happy.  With hoopla and a couple of impactless other adds, they can self claim a successful off-season.
Sorry, that was a MLB link, not ESPN  https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-trade-candidates-heading-into-2023?partnerId=zh-20221201-771021-mlb-1-A&qid=1026&utm_id=zh-20221201-771021-mlb-1-A&bt_ee=scQn9GbNsU27HCRiQ1c1bEklqN1CgqaPlYJexMCi7ovDh0NDav5ZYe9E%2FTB0Jeuq&bt_ts=1669905221050