Author Topic: Cubs in ‘23  (Read 55130 times)

CurtOne

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #720 on: December 09, 2022, 05:46:00 pm »
In all this turmoil about Dansby, makes me wonder.  Besides outrageous salaries and number of years, are you naysayers also giving out no trade contracts and no team or player opt outs?  It's like if we get the wrong shortstop we're stuck with him until 2091.Nonsense.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #721 on: December 09, 2022, 05:48:01 pm »
Don't the Braves already have multiple pricey long-term commitments?  Maybe they're not financially ready/able to add another one.

Plus they have a young stud in Vaughn Grissom who mostly played SS in the minors and looked great at the plate as a rookie.

davep

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #722 on: December 09, 2022, 05:48:50 pm »
Why would Swanson ever agree to terms early with the Cubs?

Here's what's going to happen. Once Correa signs, all the clubs still with $$$ to spend looking to make a splash (and there are a lot, it seems) now have just one, single, premium-ish, position player FA available: Swanson. The next-best available FA position player is... Benintendi? Oh, you need an IF? Then you're dropping down to Turner (is he still IF??) or Segura.

Swanson is just going to wait for the market to come to him, because pretty soon he's going to be the only player worth a front-page headline. Factor in the inflated salaries we're seeing this offseason, and I think Swanson is going to get an absolutely stupid amount of money, relative to the kind of player he is.

If the Cubs can't get Correa, I'm with br: pivot to Segura *really* quickly. Then go get Rodon.

It isn't quite that simple.  Yes, if the top three are all signed, then Swanson is all that is left.  On the other hand, the top three teams that were willing to spend the most money, all not have shortstops, and are no longer driving the bidding up.  The last one to sign does not always get a better deal.

davep

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #723 on: December 09, 2022, 05:54:35 pm »
If they don't get a shortstop, I don't want them to acquire a second baseman.  Put the money in the rotation and at DH/1B/3B.  Play Morel at 2B.

I agree.  I could easily live with a Hoerner/Morel keystone combo with Rodon on the starting staff.  Morel may well add more offense to the team than Swanson does, and I would like to see him settle in at one position to try to excel at it.  I think this supersub stuff is highly overrated.  There are very few Zobrists out there, and very few teams that really need one.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #724 on: December 09, 2022, 05:59:24 pm »
Morel hit .194 with a .645 OPS in the second half and ranked 58th out of 82 in OAA for 2B with at least 50 chances last season.  Penciling him in as the everyday 2B is not a move you make if you're remotely serious about trying to compete.

guest405

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #725 on: December 09, 2022, 06:00:28 pm »
Im in favor of signing Swanson and think we ultimately will but I also believe the contract will end up bad.

JeffH

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #726 on: December 09, 2022, 06:02:59 pm »
Morel hit .194 with a .645 OPS in the second half and ranked 58th out of 82 in OAA for 2B with at least 50 chances last season.  Penciling him in as the everyday 2B is not a move you make if you're remotely serious about trying to compete.

At some point, you have to let your talented youngsters play and grow.
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davep

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #727 on: December 09, 2022, 06:05:36 pm »
Morel hit .194 with a .645 OPS in the second half and ranked 58th out of 82 in OAA for 2B with at least 50 chances last season.  Penciling him in as the everyday 2B is not a move you make if you're remotely serious about trying to compete.

It is if you believe that the talent he showed in the first half of the season can be brought out in future seasons.  Regardless of the individual half, Morel had a very good rookie season.  It is not at all unusual for a 22 year old kid with talent to struggle in his first year.  I'm glad that the Cubs didn't discard Maddux after he performed poorly his first year.
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guest405

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #728 on: December 09, 2022, 06:12:38 pm »
As Cubs wait on the shortstop market to shake out,they are working on adding other pieces.Trey Mancini has been a player of interest.He brings both versatility and character.Catcher and starting P still a  priority.They have talked Kodai Senga with agent Joel Wolfe.--Levine

CUBluejays

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #729 on: December 09, 2022, 06:16:03 pm »
Morel hit .194 with a .645 OPS in the second half and ranked 58th out of 82 in OAA for 2B with at least 50 chances last season.  Penciling him in as the everyday 2B is not a move you make if you're remotely serious about trying to compete.

Swanson had a .702 OPS in the second half. 


Hoyer at the start of the off season talked about good teams blowing out other teams.  If you bring in Swanson you are looking at a team that is going to try and win 1 run low score games. The error bar on that type of team is huge. The easy answer is we’ll just get the offense at 1B/3B/DH.  Look at Fangraphs and see how many guys had an OPS above .800 and who is available in the next few years.  It isn’t a long list.

Correra or bust.  You then have to continue to add studs the next couple years in free agency or the Cubs are going to have to be really amazing at drafting in the middle/late first round to get those studs.


Ron

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #730 on: December 09, 2022, 06:23:20 pm »
I just want to say this sort of spirited debate that makes this board so worthwhile. Thanks guys.
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JeffH

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #731 on: December 09, 2022, 06:24:00 pm »
The easy answer is we’ll just get the offense at 1B/3B/DH.

This is doable, but it's much harder if you've spent $25 on a less-than-offensively-elite shortstop.

JeffH

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #732 on: December 09, 2022, 06:25:27 pm »
I just want to say this sort of spirited debate that makes this board so worthwhile. Thanks guys.

C'mon, Ron.  Get serious.  This is some dopey stuff coming from all sides.
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Deeg

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #733 on: December 09, 2022, 06:28:17 pm »
Swanson had a .702 OPS in the second half. 


Hoyer at the start of the off season talked about good teams blowing out other teams.  If you bring in Swanson you are looking at a team that is going to try and win 1 run low score games. The error bar on that type of team is huge. The easy answer is we’ll just get the offense at 1B/3B/DH.  Look at Fangraphs and see how many guys had an OPS above .800 and who is available in the next few years.  It isn’t a long list.

Correra or bust.  You then have to continue to add studs the next couple years in free agency or the Cubs are going to have to be really amazing at drafting in the middle/late first round to get those studs.



So a 60 points higher OPS while playing statistically the best defense in the NL at SS is equivalent to a .645 OPS playing among the worst at 2B.  Got it.

Deeg

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Re: Cubs in ‘23
« Reply #734 on: December 09, 2022, 06:31:31 pm »
At some point, you have to let your talented youngsters play and grow.

Morel will play plenty as a super-utility guy, which is where his performance last season dictates he should be.  He was bad defensively everywhere he played and bad offensively for half the season, and he was never an elite prospect.  I don't think you commit a critical position to him as an everyday player when there are better options available, and I don't think that's inconsistent with committing to young talent.  When PCA - who is an elite prospect and plays outstanding defense - comes up, you can commit to letting him play through his struggles.  Apples and oranges.