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Author Topic: Politics, Religion, etc.  (Read 99848 times)

Ron

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6270 on: July 04, 2022, 05:12:59 pm »
Quote from: CurtOne on July 04, 2022, 01:17:04 pm
Biggest issue is that both sides seem to prefer seeing the country fall than surrender control to the other.

With all due respect, this is nonsense, and I cannot believe you mean this.
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CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6271 on: July 04, 2022, 05:23:49 pm »
Ron, the opposite of what I said is compromise.  On what issue do you see the opposing sides willing to compromise? 
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CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6272 on: July 04, 2022, 05:31:28 pm »
Abortion?  Guns?  Environment?  Immigration?  Economy?  You have nuts willing to try to overthrow the government in support of a childish moron.  You read all kinds of rubbish to continue to support the jackass.  We are constantly given horrible choices in our elections.  Respect?  Our court system?  Our elected leaders?  On social media.  Please show me hope.
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Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6273 on: July 04, 2022, 05:42:35 pm »
Quote from: Ron on July 04, 2022, 05:12:59 pm
With all due respect, this is nonsense, and I cannot believe you mean this.

I can.
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ticohans

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6274 on: July 04, 2022, 05:55:03 pm »
Do we have anyone from the board in Highland Park? Sincerely hope not. Not even going to try to put words to the shooting.

Meanwhile, the Republican candidate for IL gov has already put out a statement in which he spent more time talking about the plight of parade organizers than the victims and their families and calls for people to "move on and celebrate freedom.”



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Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6275 on: July 04, 2022, 06:34:01 pm »
Quote from: ticohans on July 04, 2022, 05:55:03 pm
Do we have anyone from the board in Highland Park? Sincerely hope not. Not even going to try to put words to the shooting.

Meanwhile, the Republican candidate for IL gov has already put out a statement in which he spent more time talking about the plight of parade organizers than the victims and their families and calls for people to "move on and celebrate freedom.”

You do - lived there for about a decade in my teens and 20s.  Unfortunately it’s a reality in the US of NRA that inevitably there’s going to be a mass shooting that intersects with your life.  Liam Hendriks has the right idea on this, but then he comes from a place that’s dealt with the issue in a non-insane way.
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Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6276 on: July 04, 2022, 07:02:13 pm »
Here’s the Highland Park shooter attending a Trump rally last year:

https://twitter.com/theeunfluencer/status/1544085608167088129?s=21&t=GhkPNhQCruwKq_CpcsHBHA
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CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6277 on: July 04, 2022, 07:06:37 pm »
tico, that doorknob was "supported" by the Democratic Governors' Association.  They ran ads stressing his anti-abortion, pro-NR, pro-Trump stands.  Sarcastically they were baiting Republicans and cross-over Democrats to vote for him because they felt he was no threat to Pritzer whereas the other candidate a progressive Black guy was more of a threat.  They ran negative ads against him.

Two things: I'm not sure I like either party taking that strategy.  Both parties have a tough time already nominating good people.   Second, I have seen "Pritzer Sucks" signs plastering Southern Illinois and Illinois has had plenty of Republican governors.  It's dangerous.  This guy is as unhinged as Trump.
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Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6278 on: July 04, 2022, 07:14:09 pm »
Quote from: CurtOne on July 04, 2022, 07:06:37 pm
tico, that doorknob was "supported" by the Democratic Governors' Association.  They ran ads stressing his anti-abortion, pro-NR, pro-Trump stands.  Sarcastically they were baiting Republicans and cross-over Democrats to vote for him because they felt he was no threat to Pritzer whereas the other candidate a progressive Black guy was more of a threat.  They ran negative ads against him.

Two things: I'm not sure I like either party taking that strategy.  Both parties have a tough time already nominating good people.   Second, I have seen "Pritzer Sucks" signs plastering Southern Illinois and Illinois has had plenty of Republican governors.  It's dangerous.  This guy is as unhinged as Trump.

Curt, by “this guy” I assume you mean Bailey and not Pritzker?
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CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6279 on: July 04, 2022, 07:33:44 pm »
Yes, sorry.
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Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6280 on: July 04, 2022, 07:44:21 pm »
Quote from: CurtOne on July 04, 2022, 07:33:44 pm
Yes, sorry.

No sweat, just making sure.
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Ron

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6281 on: July 04, 2022, 09:13:38 pm »
Quote from: CurtOne on July 04, 2022, 05:31:28 pm
Abortion?  Guns?  Environment?  Immigration?  Economy?  You have nuts willing to try to overthrow the government in support of a childish moron.  You read all kinds of rubbish to continue to support the jackass.  We are constantly given horrible choices in our elections.  Respect?  Our court system?  Our elected leaders?  On social media.  Please show me hope.

Curt - I am hoping you simply have not been closely following news about legislative initiatives.  There have for years been instances in which the Democrats have compromised in order to obtain Republican support for legislation only to find it pointless. The most famous is when Obama asked Grassley, after ongoing efforts to find a meeting place on health care reform (what became the Affordable Care Act) whether there was anything that result in his and Republican support, and Grassley's response was no. This was no outlier.

For you to paint both parties with an unwillingness to compromise is grossly inaccurate. Yeah, some on the left are dogmatic in their approach, but the Democrats as a whole are consistently amenable to some form of compromise. And particularly on climate change and preserving democracy, the Republicans have been consistently unyielding.  One doesn't have to agree with every position Dems have had or the behavior of all Dems to acknowledge the astonishing difference between the two parties' willingness to support legislative efforts on each of these issues.  This includes immigration by the way, and in case you haven't noticed the national debt has consistently risen under Republican presidents and declined under Democratic presidents. For the Republicans to complain about the national debt is hypocritical to an extraordinary degree.
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Ron

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6282 on: July 04, 2022, 09:24:07 pm »
Quote from: CurtOne on July 04, 2022, 07:06:37 pm
tico, that doorknob was "supported" by the Democratic Governors' Association.  They ran ads stressing his anti-abortion, pro-NR, pro-Trump stands.  Sarcastically they were baiting Republicans and cross-over Democrats to vote for him because they felt he was no threat to Pritzer whereas the other candidate a progressive Black guy was more of a threat.  They ran negative ads against him.

Two things: I'm not sure I like either party taking that strategy.  Both parties have a tough time already nominating good people.   Second, I have seen "Pritzer Sucks" signs plastering Southern Illinois and Illinois has had plenty of Republican governors.  It's dangerous.  This guy is as unhinged as Trump.

I don't like either party trying to sabotage the other party's chances for success by supporting a lesser candidate in the primary either. But it was Republicans who chose to nominate this guy, not Dems. In any event, this sort of thing pales in comparison to the efforts by Republicans to suppress opposition participation in elections, much less the more recent efforts to provide state legislatures the ability to reject election results they don't like.
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CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6283 on: July 04, 2022, 10:39:25 pm »
Ron:But it was Republicans who chose to nominate this guy, not Dems.   ???   Bailey nominated himself, as did the Mayor of Aurora.  He had to receive the final nomination at the ballot box.



Actually, Ron, I have been following the decline of civility very closely.   I would tend to agree that there are more reputable and honest Dems right now than Republicans, but both party more together over the weekends then they do on the Hill.   It's all about power and who has it.  You look at what constituencies will deliver you votes, and you cater to them: women, minorities, gun owners, alphabet groups, military, farmers, dentists, whatever.   You have a lot of cowards catering to Trump right now.   Most will do whatever it takes to get power, even kissing Trump's butt.  Going back to my original post which you challenged, most people who consider themselves a member of a party refuse to see the crap in their own party.

For power, party members will even turn on their own.  Rodney Davis was a Trumper whose district got merged with another.  The other a MAGA Trumper, actually won on the idea that Davis wasn't Trumper enough.  She ran lying ads, claiming Davis was best buds with Pelosi.  Nonsense.   

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CUBluejays

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #6284 on: July 04, 2022, 11:30:14 pm »
Quote from: Ron on July 04, 2022, 09:13:38 pm
Curt - I am hoping you simply have not been closely following news about legislative initiatives.  There have for years been instances in which the Democrats have compromised in order to obtain Republican support for legislation only to find it pointless. The most famous is when Obama asked Grassley, after ongoing efforts to find a meeting place on health care reform (what became the Affordable Care Act) whether there was anything that result in his and Republican support, and Grassley's response was no. This was no outlier.

For you to paint both parties with an unwillingness to compromise is grossly inaccurate. Yeah, some on the left are dogmatic in their approach, but the Democrats as a whole are consistently amenable to some form of compromise. And particularly on climate change and preserving democracy, the Republicans have been consistently unyielding.  One doesn't have to agree with every position Dems have had or the behavior of all Dems to acknowledge the astonishing difference between the two parties' willingness to support legislative efforts on each of these issues.  This includes immigration by the way, and in case you haven't noticed the national debt has consistently risen under Republican presidents and declined under Democratic presidents. For the Republicans to complain about the national debt is hypocritical to an extraordinary degree.

President Obama poisoned the well with Republicans when they had their first meeting about healthcare reform and dropped the elections matter line. Affordable Healthcare Act could have been a good idea, but it was mucked up from the beginning. Imagine trying to convince people to do a colonoscopy and telling them it could be free unless the find polyps if they find polyps it will be a lot more.  It could be fixed, but neither party wants to.

Pre-Trump both sides arguments had some merit. Post January 6 they don’t. I don’t really have a political home. I’m not into the Warren wing of the Democrats, but I’m certainly not into voting for Republicans at this point. I really don’t have any choice but to vote for Democrats at this point. They have flaws and do a lot of stuff in bad faith, but they aren’t actively trying to burn down democracy either.

Romney, Chaney and Kinzger may not be your political cup of tea, but they don’t need attacks coming from the left at this point.  They are a small island of conservatives that are trying to not let the bad people win. Just leav them alone for right now.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 11:34:01 pm by CUBluejays »
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