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Author Topic: Politics, Religion, etc.  (Read 99742 times)

method

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #555 on: March 22, 2016, 08:35:36 pm »
Quote from: davep on March 22, 2016, 08:27:25 pm
You choose an odd example of the voter's ire.

The most unpopular law in the land among republican voters is Obamacare.  You may find Democrats that like it, but most Democrats like free stuff.

I agree that many voters of both parties do not like free trade.  Many Democrats seem to be voting for Trump because, unlike those in charge of both parties, they would rather have protectionism.

I agree that voters in both parties are sick and tired of bail outs.  But, of course, although a great many Republicans voted for it, both parties have been in favor of bail outs.  Obama orchestrated the bail out of the Automobile industry and the Automotive Unions.

What is the alternative to Obamacare where those who pay for insurance do NOT pay for those who dont?

Lets be honest, insruance holders have long paid for those in the system that do not pay for insurance. the real problem with health care is the genuine lack of competition that every member of congress seems to support entirely.

Health care is the only industry in this country where you can obtain a service and have no idea what the real charges are until AFTER you receive the service... its also the only service where the prices are completely disparage depending on how you choose to pay for the service. (beyound normal additional charges for paying with a CC vs cash)

I'll ask again, who here is worse off today then they were 8 years ago? I mean it honestly... is your life worse today? or only your perspective of it? why are so many people so needlessly angry?

Have we as a society really lost that much perspective of the common struggle that we must **** and moan about having it so good?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 08:37:19 pm by method »
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JR

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #556 on: March 22, 2016, 08:42:25 pm »
I'll tell you one understated problem with Obamacare.  A lot of the insurance plans on Obamacare is hardly real insurance for low income people.  I was helping my brother with Obamacare, and the lowest price plan he was eligible for and was already stretching his budget carried a $10,000 deductible.

If you're an employee at Wal-Mart and wind up with cancer or in a car wreck and you have a health plan with a $10,000 deductible, you're really not insured at all.

And I think Obamacare is only covering maybe 1/4 of the previously 40,000,000 some odd uninsured before it went into effect.

It's a bad system, even if your goal is universal coverage.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 08:44:26 pm by JR »
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method

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #557 on: March 22, 2016, 08:46:12 pm »
Quote from: JR on March 22, 2016, 08:42:25 pm
I'll tell you one understated problem with Obamacare.  A lot of the insurance plans on Obamacare is hardly real insurance for low income people.  I was helping my brother with Obamacare, and the lowest price plan he was eligible before and was already stretching his budget carried a $10,000 deductible.

If you're an employee at Wal-Mart and wind up with cancer or in a car wreck and you have a health plan with a $10,000 deductible, you're really not insured at all.

And I think Obamacare is only covering maybe 1/4 of the previously 40,000,000 some odd uninsured.

Not a good system. 

A 10K deductible loss on your credit is a lot easier to overcome then a 100K charge from a hospital for emergency coverage.

We have to fix the issue of people who willfully choose to not have insurance and then go to the ER for any problem and pass the costs onto the rest of us.  IMO the real problem is a genuine lack of competition in the healthcare space. in terms of both coverage, and opaque billing practices.

Obamacare only attempts to patch the really bad situations... and that in and of it self imo is a failure of the entire program, they half assed it.
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CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #558 on: March 22, 2016, 08:48:20 pm »
Both parties do a great job of lying with statistics.  Health insurance and employment are two excellent examples.  Yes employment is up.  Why?  Because people looking for work for a long time, gave up and no longer count in the statistics.  Many employers cut hours to avoid paying the health insurance and hired others in low paying, unfulfilling jobs.  What we have is a lot of people working for minimum wage in part time work.  Obamacare is responsible for some of that, not all of that.   And neither Trump nor the Republicans will fix it.
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FDISK

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #559 on: March 22, 2016, 08:50:20 pm »
Trump would make a horrible President.  But not as horrible as Hillary, Sanders or Biden.

I'll take a political hack over a demagogue.  I could not imagine a more dangerous world than one with Putin and The Donald being the guys with their fingers on the button. 
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CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #560 on: March 22, 2016, 08:52:01 pm »
Quote from: FDISK on March 22, 2016, 08:50:20 pm
Trump would make a horrible President.  But not as horrible as Hillary, Sanders or Biden.

I'll take a political hack over a demagogue.  I could not imagine a more dangerous world than one with Putin and The Donald being the guys with their fingers on the button. 
Amen

Our hope is that whoever is voted in, the other party controls the House and Senate.  With Trump on the ticket, I fear that won't happen.
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davep

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #561 on: March 22, 2016, 08:54:31 pm »
The alternative to healthcare in which those who pay for healthcare insurance pay for those who do not pay for healthcare insurance, it is to have each person pay for his own healthcare, either through insurance or with his own assets.  I have no problem with the Government paying for necessary healthcare for those who have no assets, through general taxation.

I suspect that we would not agree on a definition for necessary healthcare.

I agree that lack of competition is a severe problem.  But the lack of competition comes through federal and local government regulations rather than the industry itself.

I, myself, am no worse off now than I was 8 years ago, but that is because I have been retired for 15 years, and am living off of the money I saved during my working life.  I have a 32 year old daughter who lost her job 3 years ago and is now working at a job that pays less than her last one.  Another daughter who is 42 retired from the Navy 3 years ago, and was unable to find a job for two years.  She is certainly not better off than she was 8 years ago.  I have no idea who your peers are, but you seem to be in a segment of the economy that is doing better than many others.
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Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #562 on: March 22, 2016, 08:57:06 pm »
Quote from: CurtOne on March 22, 2016, 08:48:20 pm
Both parties do a great job of lying with statistics.  Health insurance and employment are two excellent examples.  Yes employment is up.  Why?  Because people looking for work for a long time, gave up and no longer count in the statistics.  Many employers cut hours to avoid paying the health insurance and hired others in low paying, unfulfilling jobs.  What we have is a lot of people working for minimum wage in part time work.  Obamacare is responsible for some of that, not all of that.   And neither Trump nor the Republicans will fix it.

Eliminating ObamaCare would fix much of that overnight.  Revising the tax code to reduce the corporate tax rate ad allow repatriation of overseas dollars would fix much more of it, though not in a matter of days.  And ending other government policies or programs which actually encourage employers here to move production overseas would also do much to help.

All of those are moves Cruz supports.
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CUBluejays

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #563 on: March 22, 2016, 09:51:58 pm »
Quote from: method on March 22, 2016, 08:46:12 pm
We have to fix the issue of people who willfully choose to not have insurance and then go to the ER for any problem and pass the costs onto the rest of us.  IMO the real problem is a genuine lack of competition in the healthcare space. in terms of both coverage, and opaque billing practices.

Obamacare only attempts to patch the really bad situations... and that in and of it self imo is a failure of the entire program, they half assed it.

That is only a small part of what people with health insurance are paying for.  They also subsidize Medicare/Medicaid patients. The dirty little secret is that hospitals most often lose money on Medicare patients and take a huge loss on Medicaid patients. People with insurance pay for this. This is a much larger chunk of money than people without insurance going to an ED for a common cold.

Obama care for the middle class has been horrible. Insurance premiums have risen, deductibles (even outside of the market place have gone up), HSA's were neutered. When I was in residency 10 years ago most plans had 2 tiers, generic/brand. Then it became 3 tiers.  5 years ago it became 4/5 tiers.  Today a lot of drug plans have 97 tiers. It is uncommon to see a prior authorization for a generic medication that is under $10 in out of pocket costs. One of the other fun parts of Obama care is it let drug companies take generic medications that have been around longer than DaveP has been alive and make the branded. They could do this because these drugs didn't have a study proving their efficacy. So a $2 drug no becomes a $100 drug. Even when it becomes generic again (the branded period isn't as long) the cost for the generic is higher because their are fewer companies that make it a generic. The upside of this a drug that doctors knew works now has a study proving that the drug works, it only costs more. Yeah!
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DelMarFan

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #564 on: March 22, 2016, 10:59:43 pm »
Quote
Trump would make a horrible President.  But not as horrible as Hillary, Sanders or Biden.

Yep, time to stop reading the politics thread.
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JR

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #565 on: March 22, 2016, 11:14:26 pm »
At this point, Hillary's going to have to do or say something that really turns me off to not vote for her in a Hillary vs. Trump general election and not cast a protest vote for Ric Flair instead.


Even with that, I'd say the chances of me voting like Dusty and casting a vote for Ric Flair are better than I'd like for them to be.
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guest61

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #566 on: March 22, 2016, 11:45:26 pm »
LMAO
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Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #567 on: March 23, 2016, 04:12:55 am »
Quote from: JR on March 22, 2016, 11:14:26 pm
At this point, Hillary's going to have to do or say something that really turns me off to not vote for her in a Hillary vs. Trump general election and not cast a protest vote for Ric Flair instead.


Even with that, I'd say the chances of me voting like Dusty and casting a vote for Ric Flair are better than I'd like for them to be.


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Dave23

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #568 on: March 23, 2016, 09:12:48 am »
Jimmy Herring 2016
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Jack Birdbath

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #569 on: March 23, 2016, 09:33:40 am »
I've voted for John Bell in the past three presidential elections.  Looks like he'll get another vote from me this year.
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