Author Topic: Politics, Religion, etc.  (Read 99455 times)

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #870 on: November 10, 2016, 05:16:51 pm »
Heh.  California threatening to secede.  Didn't Texas do the same thing after Obama was elected?  Won't happen.  All those folks in California would have to get passports to go to Vegas and Reno.

The Democratic party would have the most to lose.  Big Blue State.

Texas, as a state, never "threatened" to secede after Obama was elected, though there have been discussions about the possibility.  The same is true presently in California.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #871 on: November 10, 2016, 05:19:15 pm »
Actually seceding is a nonstarter, of course, but I completely understand the desire to decouple ourselves from the misogynist racists and/or rubes who think Trump as president is a good idea.  Right now I'm ashamed of being from the Midwest.

After what you put in your first sentence, some of the rest of us from the Midwest may also be ashamed you are from the same part of the country.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #872 on: November 10, 2016, 05:25:50 pm »
I've read about that too.  Just assuming a state like that or say Vermont really truly wanted to secede, I wonder how the federal government or a President Trump would react to that.  One of the crazy #calexit articles I read mentioned that secession would be a legal thing for them to do, and that's not how the federal government has viewed it historically.  I'm reading Jon Meacham's biography of Andrew Jackson right now (By the way, I get the feeling Trump would have a lot in common with Andrew Jackson.), and he considered secession and nullification of federal laws to be illegal.  Abraham Lincoln considered secession to be illegal. 

You'd think in the 21st century that you wouldn't resort to force to bring them back, but the federal government can't just let them walk.

Why?

And if they attempt to do so, do you send in federal troops, a la Lincoln, which started a civil war resulting in the death of one of every twenty people in the country?

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #873 on: November 10, 2016, 05:27:33 pm »
I think you need to be a little more charitable.  Where there misogynist and racists that voted for Trump?  Yes.  They weren't the majority.  There are multiple reasons for voting for him that don't include either of those.  Calling people rubes is also pretty offensive.

Now, now, such things are only offensive when conservatives say them.  When good liberals do, there is no offense, and, besides, when liberals say something like that, well, you just know it's true.

DelMarFan

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #874 on: November 10, 2016, 05:29:47 pm »
Quote
There are millions upon millions of Democratic/progressive voters who would vote for the Democratic candidate simply because of his or her agenda.

Is that OK?

It's tough.  I completely see your point, and I could argue it either way, but in the end it would come down to a personal decision even if we didn't want it to.  It's a spectrum. 

For me personally, the moral part of it matters.  I think it's important that the president is someone that kids can look up to.  It's not everything, but it matters to me.  John Edwards would never get my vote.  In retrospect, I was pretty happy with The thought of Donald Trump living in the White House forever cheapens the office of the president, and that makes me sad.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #875 on: November 10, 2016, 05:30:42 pm »
Pay-for-play has been around for a long time.  Both parties have used it extensively.  Nobody was better at it than George W. Bush.  When big-business and big-oil said "jump", he said "how high?".

Bull.  Utter bull.  The Clintons rented out the damb Lincoln bedroom, and you want to point fingers at George W.

You lose anything resembling credibility with such nonsense.
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Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #876 on: November 10, 2016, 05:32:52 pm »
All we know for sure--through the mounds of available evidence--is that he's a despicable human being.

And that description somehow does not fit both of the Clintons?

DelMarFan

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #877 on: November 10, 2016, 05:34:34 pm »
Jes, anyone who takes you off ignore long enough to argue with you is also a rube.

FDISK

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #878 on: November 10, 2016, 05:35:15 pm »
Cable news, ain't. Spin is accepted as analysis. Lies are accepted as business as usual. The entire process is a circus. In such an environment it doesn't surprise me that the head huckster wins.
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DelMarFan

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #879 on: November 10, 2016, 05:37:54 pm »
Cable news, ain't. Spin is accepted as analysis. Lies are accepted as business as usual. The entire process is a circus. In such an environment it doesn't surprise me that the head huckster wins.

The guy who lied the most and best won.  I find that sad.

DelMarFan

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #880 on: November 10, 2016, 05:40:27 pm »
Okay.  Clearly I had some **** to say.  I think it's out.  I'll resume mostly lurking now.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #881 on: November 10, 2016, 05:42:50 pm »
I just don't understand the "Hillary is worse than Trump" line of thinking.

Then you have rather limited understanding.  I completely understand it, even though I do not share it.

Then on top of that, you have the constant misogynistic and racist rhetoric that was Trump's campaign.

The words "constant," "continual," and "repeated" are different for a reason.  They mean different things.  You might want to check the meaning of each.

You have a guy who mocked a disabled reporter and encouraged violence against protesters at some of his rallies.

Except that he didn't.  He used gestures which he also used to describe other people, including Ted Cruz and a perfectly healthy general, who he was trying to make fun of for being confused or taking positions which he thought made no sense or were inconsistent with what he thought was obvious or what he thought they had said before.... the one you are referencing simply happened to be disabled.... a reporter Trump had passing contact with, never with an in depth or one-on-one interview, with all of that contact more than 20 years earlier.  There is no reason to believe Trump actually knew the guy was disabled.

And he openly bragged about committing sexual assault because he wanted to impress Billy Bush.  I just don't get it.

This is utter bull.  Read the transcript.  Listen to the recording.  He did not say that he ever DID grab a woman by the genitals, but only boast that he COULD.  Earlier this year he also boasted that he COULD should someone on 5th Avenue and get away with it because he was so popular.  Are you similarly going to contend that was Trump admitting that he HAD shot someone on 5th Avenue?

Look, I do NOT like Trump.  I consider him a despicable human being, and I actually would have preferred Clinton over Trump.... but only by the narrowest of margins, since I also consider her a despicable human being and I hope she soon gets a chance to wear an orange jumpsuit on a regular basis.... but your claims about him are nonsense.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #882 on: November 10, 2016, 05:46:25 pm »
A HUGE percentage of the people who voted for Trump were completely deceived.  They bought into his rhetoric--which was about 75% lies--as the gospel truth.  He's probably 5x the criminal/liar that Hillary is, but they think that She should be locked up.  They think he's going to help them.

He's not.

Ironically, the party that will help those people (the ones who are really angry and lost their jobs and are at the lower end of the economic spectrum?) would be the other one.

I get that some people who voted for Trump have their reasons, not all of which are deplorable.  However, I'll stand by my assertion that lots and lots and lots of people who voted for Trump are rubes.  Someday, maybe, I'll feel sorry for them when they get taught again that trickle-down economics don't work and maybe they don't have *any* health care options and *still* don't have the manufacturing job he promised to bring back, but right now I think I'm a bit too pissed off.

I respectfully submit that you have no clue what you are talking about, and suggesting that any higher percentage of  Trump voters are "rubes" than Hillary voters, or than were Obama voters, is an assertion making no sense.

It would also be interesting to hear you explain what "trickle down economics" is, and to point to any example of Trump saying he supports it.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #883 on: November 10, 2016, 05:49:19 pm »
Amen to that, brother. 

That's the biggest thing I'm taking away from this election.  I've had my doubts about straight-up democracy for a while now, but this election is the poster child for its faults.

Considering some of your comments here it is amusing to see you calling for your own disenfranchisement.

FDISK

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #884 on: November 10, 2016, 05:52:50 pm »
Well...there is plenty of blame to go around.

1. Hillary is a very uninspiring idea.  Back in the old days, when I had a job, I used to handle classified data all day, every day. If I had done what Hillary did I'd be typing this from a Federal lockup. If she had been merely the 'usually unlikable politician' she would have won hands down. 

2. TV media is crap.  The NY Times and Washington Post reported day after day after day the total nonsense that was Donald Trump. But...Despite the best efforts by a few types, TV "news" completely abdicated their responsibility, opting instead to reap the financial benefits of sensationalism.  Cable news organizations are simply entertainment.   Jon Stewart, a blatantly entertainment entity, provided more "news".

3. We, the people, suck. We let it happen.  Our fault, most of all.
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