Author Topic: Politics, Religion, etc.  (Read 99322 times)

Robb

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1215 on: December 13, 2016, 03:56:26 pm »
These scientists have said that projected rising temperatures will be of little impact or a net positive for society or the environment.

    Indur M. Goklany, science and technology policy analyst for the United States Department of the Interior[156][157][158]
    Craig D. Idso, faculty researcher, Office of Climatology, Arizona State University and founder of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change [159][160]
    Sherwood B. Idso, former research physicist, USDA Water Conservation Laboratory, and adjunct professor, Arizona State University[161][162]
    Patrick Michaels, senior fellow at the Cato Institute and retired research professor of environmental science at the University of Virginia[163][164]

Robb

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1216 on: December 13, 2016, 03:57:33 pm »
But you're right, the science is settled. 

FDISK

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1217 on: December 13, 2016, 03:58:54 pm »
Actually...I said the opposite.  Typical Conservative response, attack the messenger.

FDISK

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1218 on: December 13, 2016, 04:04:55 pm »
Among the amazing total of 168 "scientists" (of the many, many thousands of scientists in the world) is  "Petr Chylek, space and remote sensing sciences researcher, Los Alamos National Laboratory.[145][146]". 

I've met Mr. Chylek. His argument is not so much against global warming as it is against lazy science. But having been a DOE contracted employee, I'm  sure he's on a list...somewhere.

Robb

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1219 on: December 13, 2016, 04:05:51 pm »
No attack FDISK, but you did present countless statements saying that in essence, the science is settled.  Just to quote one of your quotes,     **
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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1205 on: Today at 03:02:42 pm »

    Quote

U.S. Global Change Research Program:

"The global warming of the past 50 years is due primarily to human-induced increases in heat-trapping gases. Human 'fingerprints' also have been identified in many other aspects of the climate system, including changes in ocean heat content, precipitation, atmospheric moisture, and Arctic sea ice." (2009, 13 U.S. government departments and agencies)12

How else can I read that statement than they are saying it is fact?

ticohans

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1220 on: December 13, 2016, 04:16:52 pm »
Is the argument here really about whether or not there is scientific consensus on global warming?

I don't know what the dividing line is between not-consensus and consensus, but unless you're drawing that line at 99%, it's clear to any objective observer that there is absolutely scientific consensus on the matter. Arguing anything else is just silly, frankly. (Note: the ARGUMENT is silly. The PERSON is not, lest anyone run around crying "ad hominem!")

Want to argue that the consensus is wrong? Go for it! People much smarter than me say the consensus is wrong! Doesn't mean there's not a consensus.

At this point, it's more reasonable to argue that Trump won the popular vote than there is no consensus on global warming.

The consensus could be wrong! It's been wrong several times before! But accuracy does not mean anything one way or another as it relates to consensus.

FDISK

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1221 on: December 13, 2016, 04:38:28 pm »
Consensus is fact.

But personal attacks are also fact.  I originally entered this discussion not because I had a relevant opinion on Global Warming, but instead because of Tump's call for a list of names in the DOE.   Clearly that is a form of personal attack and intimidation. 

But what's a little erosion of personal rights when compared to belief systems?

Jack Birdbath

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1222 on: December 13, 2016, 04:44:20 pm »
The good news is that the DOE told Trump to **** off. They aren't participating in this witch hunt and giving him any names.  I hope as many people as possible stonewall this atrocity of a president.
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FDISK

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1223 on: December 13, 2016, 04:51:56 pm »
No, actually a union told Trump to jump in a lake.  From personal experience, that union represents a VERY small percentage of DOE and DOE contracted employees.

In the mean time, Trump has instructed followers to compose a list of people who agreed with the consensus.

Jack Birdbath

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1224 on: December 13, 2016, 05:02:47 pm »
The Director of Public Affairs for the DOE said they are not giving any names to the transition team. Sounds like more than an union objection to me.

“The Department of Energy received significant feedback from our workforce throughout the department, including the National Labs, following the release of the transition team’s questions. Some of the questions asked left many in our workforce unsettled,” said Eben Burnham-Snyder, a department spokesman. “Our career workforce, including our contractors and employees at our labs, comprise the backbone of DOE (Department of Energy) and the important work our department does to benefit the American people. We are going to respect the professional and scientific integrity and independence of our employees at our labs and across our department.

“We will be forthcoming with all publically-available information with the transition team. We will not be providing any individual names to the transition team.” Burnham-Snyder’s email had the last sentence in boldface for emphasis.

FDISK

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1225 on: December 13, 2016, 05:43:20 pm »
My mistake.  I just read about the DOE statement.  I was operating on old data...from this morning.

In a little over a month the DOE will be Trump's to do with as he pleases. If I was the Director of Public Affairs I would be seriously contemplating a career change.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 05:47:02 pm by FDISK »

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1226 on: December 13, 2016, 05:57:33 pm »
Robb
Citing an 7 year old story from the conservative noise machine that was debunked is not adding anything to the debate. Nor changing the scientific consensus on Global Warming.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/
Can you provide any actual information?

Claiming a consensus exists, does not make it so, nor does claiming something is science make it science, or calling a website "factcheck" make it at all concerned with checking facts.

Jes Beard

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1227 on: December 13, 2016, 06:06:29 pm »
We now have meteorologists, geoscientists and engineers all reporting that they are skeptics of an asserted global warming crisis....

Engineers?

Engineers?

Their qualifications would be.....?  What exactly?

And geoscientists.... in other words geologists -- rockhounds and the folks who figure out where to drill for oil.

Hey, I agree with their conclusions, but trotting them out as scientists on this issue steals credibility from any other arguments you present.

davep

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1228 on: December 13, 2016, 06:18:49 pm »
My mistake.  I just read about the DOE statement.  I was operating on old data...from this morning.

In a little over a month the DOE will be Trump's to do with as he pleases. If I was the Director of Public Affairs I would be seriously contemplating a career change.

Is the Director of Public Affairs a civil service job, or a political appointee?  There isn't a lot that even the President can do if he is not a political appointee.

method

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #1229 on: December 13, 2016, 06:56:12 pm »
I am not sure why some of you are quoting professional organizations staffed by professionals in their fields as any sort of proof. Not sure if you knew this or not, but 90% is not a consensus its a conspiracy.... its very very easy to see.

The sad part is that no one alive now will really see the brunt of the effects of anthropogenic effects on the climate and our planet... we'll be long gone before the real consequences are felt. Bright side here again, is we wont have to deal with this... we'd rather save 10-15% NOW! thats the best for all of us!