Author Topic: Politics, Religion, etc.  (Read 63355 times)

CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4080 on: July 05, 2020, 09:38:22 am »
How about drinking bleach?
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Bennett

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4081 on: July 05, 2020, 09:58:05 am »
How about drinking bleach?
Why bother?  It's going away.

Just look at what the 110° temperatures are doing in Arizona.

Playtwo

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4082 on: July 05, 2020, 10:57:14 am »
That study was published in a low impact journal.  Probably a good reason for that.

Jack Birdbath

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4083 on: July 05, 2020, 11:02:29 am »
These people are nuts.  The president and the people who advise him are into this ****.

Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) Tweeted:
At the end of the oath you’ll hear General Flynn and the group say “where we go one we go all.”

That is the QAnon motto. You’ll often see them use the hashtag #WWG1WGA in their tweets for that reason.

Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4084 on: July 05, 2020, 07:19:40 pm »
Quote
Seth Abramson
@SethAbramson
Those of us who care about our country must accept the possibility that too many Americans are selfish or stupid for us to ever control COVID-19. That means we're headed to the "uncontrolled" scenario experts warned of—2.5 million dead. Prepare yourself mentally for that outcome.


Play ball!

Ron

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4085 on: July 05, 2020, 08:38:20 pm »

Play ball!

Not that I want to dismiss the suggestion that many Americans are behaving stupidly about Covid-19, who the heck is Seth Abramson as a source for something like that?

CUBluejays

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4086 on: July 05, 2020, 09:47:41 pm »
Not that I want to dismiss the suggestion that many Americans are behaving stupidly about Covid-19, who the heck is Seth Abramson as a source for something like that?

An attorney/Newsweek columnist/Author about Qanon.

To get to 2.5 million deaths now it would mean the really large states don’t lock again, wear masks, social distance, etc...  The smaller states would have to just stick their heads in the sand and say it won’t happen. If the deaths start creeping up again people will have to start taking it more seriously again.

Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4087 on: July 05, 2020, 10:03:41 pm »
The problem is that without hard border controls at state lines, the stupidity of some states impacts all states.  That's why a national policy would have been so crucial.

I don't think there's any "if" about it, it's "when".  I wish that weren't the case but given what we know about this pandemic it's inevitable.

CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4088 on: July 05, 2020, 10:36:48 pm »
Some people are just plain stubborn stupid.  Some are oblivious stupid.  Most have just gotten sloppy.  Like that article from Mrs. Freeman in another topic.  People who worked so hard and were so careful have gotten sloppy in either their own behavior or getting caught off guard by the behavior of others.  In my case, we have a caregiver come a couple times a week to do a little cleaning and to do exercises with my invalid wife.  For six weeks we didn't have her come.  In June she went and got tested and was negative so she started coming again sporadically.  The other day after she got here and was working with my wife that she and her husband had traveled to a city to meet another couple in a restaurant that was surprisingly crowded.  At this point, I said WHOA and we cut the visit short.   Many people who test negative then forget that the guy they pass in the hall on the way out of the testing area could sneeze on them and bingo.

My sister had to have a blood test the other day at the local hospital.  She said the waiting room was packed, she was the only one wearing a mask, and one guy was coughing his head off.  As I've mentioned I've been the only one wearing a mask in the local grocery and there are a dozen adults with their kids!  How do you risk your kids?

Older people like myself are saying, we can only hope for a vaccine because they Trumpers and morons and Teenagers are going to kill us otherwise.

Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4089 on: July 05, 2020, 11:08:19 pm »
What's interesting is that the demographics for fatal cases skew younger in the U.S. than anywhere in Europe.  As far as I know there haven't been any major studies attempting to explain why (widespread lack of adequate health insurance is the most obvious reason, on paper), but if more people were aware of that maybe younger Americans wouldn't behave with reckless stupidity in such huge numbers.

CurtOne

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4090 on: July 05, 2020, 11:09:48 pm »
I know of 3 nursing homes/retirement villages here in Illinois with 20+ fatalities each.
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CUBluejays

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4091 on: July 06, 2020, 08:11:40 am »
What's interesting is that the demographics for fatal cases skew younger in the U.S. than anywhere in Europe.  As far as I know there haven't been any major studies attempting to explain why (widespread lack of adequate health insurance is the most obvious reason, on paper), but if more people were aware of that maybe younger Americans wouldn't behave with reckless stupidity in such huge numbers.

We are fatter and have more chronic health problems that start at a younger ages than other countries.


Deeg

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4092 on: July 06, 2020, 09:26:35 am »
On this subject:
https://t.co/s1om5LfPQW

Robb

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4093 on: July 06, 2020, 11:09:41 am »
This is an interesting update From Sweden. https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

A couple of things they found in the data.

Even in global “hotspots”, the risk of death for the general population of school and working age is typically in the range of a daily car ride to work. The risk was initially overestimated because many people with only mild or no symptoms were not taken into account.

The median age of the deceased in most countries (including Italy) is over 80 years (e.g. 86 years in Sweden) and only about 4% of the deceased had no serious preconditions. The age and risk profile of deaths thus essentially corresponds to normal mortality.

In many countries, up to two thirds of all extra deaths occurred in nursing homes, which do not benefit from a general lockdown. Moreover, in many cases it is not clear whether these people really died from Covid19 or from weeks of extreme stress and isolation.
Up to 30% of all additional deaths may have been caused not by Covid19, but by the effects of the lockdown, panic and fear. For example, the treatment of heart attacks and strokes decreased by up to 60% because many patients no longer dared to go to hospital.

Even in so-called “Covid19 deaths” it is often not clear whether they died from or with coronavirus (i.e. from underlying diseases) or if they were counted as “presumed cases” and not tested at all. However, official figures usually do not reflect this distinction.
Many media reports of young and healthy people dying from Covid19 turned out to be false: many of these young people either did not die from Covid19, they had already been seriously ill (e.g. from undiagnosed leukaemia), or they were in fact 109 instead of 9 years old. The claimed increase in Kawasaki disease in children also turned out to be false.

Countries without curfews and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea, Belarus or Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries. Sweden was even praised by the WHO and now benefits from higher immunity compared to lockdown countries.
The fear of a shortage of ventilators was unjustified. According to lung specialists, the invasive ventilation (intubation) of Covid19 patients, which is partly done out of fear of spreading the virus, is in fact often counterproductive and damaging to the lungs.

Numerous internationally renowned experts in the fields of virology, immunology and epidemiology consider the measures taken to be counterproductive and recommend rapid natural immunisation of the general population and protection of risk groups.

All of these findings are referenced at the link. It is hard for people to know what to believe when there are reputable sources on both sides saying the exact opposite. Would be nice if this weren't political. I played golf with my doctor Friday and he spent most of the round talking about the faults with what the media is reporting and what is being done to treat it. I am sure there is something of a confirmation bias going on with people on the right and left. In the middle are those being hurt by misinformation from both ends. This is where a truly unbiased media would be nice to have, even crucial. But because half the country, at least, doesn't trust them to research and report the facts without a slant, people are ignoring what they are telling us, and chaos ensues.
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Voiceontheair

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Re: Politics, Religion, etc.
« Reply #4094 on: July 06, 2020, 01:19:45 pm »
This is an interesting update From Sweden. https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

A couple of things they found in the data.

Even in global “hotspots”, the risk of death for the general population of school and working age is typically in the range of a daily car ride to work. The risk was initially overestimated because many people with only mild or no symptoms were not taken into account.

The median age of the deceased in most countries (including Italy) is over 80 years (e.g. 86 years in Sweden) and only about 4% of the deceased had no serious preconditions. The age and risk profile of deaths thus essentially corresponds to normal mortality.

In many countries, up to two thirds of all extra deaths occurred in nursing homes, which do not benefit from a general lockdown. Moreover, in many cases it is not clear whether these people really died from Covid19 or from weeks of extreme stress and isolation.
Up to 30% of all additional deaths may have been caused not by Covid19, but by the effects of the lockdown, panic and fear. For example, the treatment of heart attacks and strokes decreased by up to 60% because many patients no longer dared to go to hospital.

Even in so-called “Covid19 deaths” it is often not clear whether they died from or with coronavirus (i.e. from underlying diseases) or if they were counted as “presumed cases” and not tested at all. However, official figures usually do not reflect this distinction.
Many media reports of young and healthy people dying from Covid19 turned out to be false: many of these young people either did not die from Covid19, they had already been seriously ill (e.g. from undiagnosed leukaemia), or they were in fact 109 instead of 9 years old. The claimed increase in Kawasaki disease in children also turned out to be false.

Countries without curfews and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea, Belarus or Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries. Sweden was even praised by the WHO and now benefits from higher immunity compared to lockdown countries.
The fear of a shortage of ventilators was unjustified. According to lung specialists, the invasive ventilation (intubation) of Covid19 patients, which is partly done out of fear of spreading the virus, is in fact often counterproductive and damaging to the lungs.

Numerous internationally renowned experts in the fields of virology, immunology and epidemiology consider the measures taken to be counterproductive and recommend rapid natural immunisation of the general population and protection of risk groups.

All of these findings are referenced at the link. It is hard for people to know what to believe when there are reputable sources on both sides saying the exact opposite. Would be nice if this weren't political. I played golf with my doctor Friday and he spent most of the round talking about the faults with what the media is reporting and what is being done to treat it. I am sure there is something of a confirmation bias going on with people on the right and left. In the middle are those being hurt by misinformation from both ends. This is where a truly unbiased media would be nice to have, even crucial. But because half the country, at least, doesn't trust them to research and report the facts without a slant, people are ignoring what they are telling us, and chaos ensues.

Despite your expressed desire to find an unbiased news source, you did exactly the opposite when you cited the "Swiss Policy Research" cite. It has a reputation for being unreliable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Propaganda_Research
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