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General Category => Bleacher Bums Forum => Topic started by: Dave23 on August 03, 2015, 09:26:24 am


Title: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 03, 2015, 09:26:24 am
What's going on with everyone else?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 03, 2015, 09:54:24 am
I can't even imagine the parents grief.

Craig Calcaterra
‏@craigcalcaterra
Nine-year-old bat boy dies after being struck by a bat in a college summer league game http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/03/nine-year-old-bat-boy-dies-after-being-struck-by-a-bat-in-a-college-summer-league-game/ … via @HardballTalk

http://www.gofundme.com/4m6pwmm88g
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 03, 2015, 10:06:29 am
I'm also feeling bad for the player.  He's gotta feel like crap too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on August 03, 2015, 10:11:52 am
I can't even imagine the parents grief.

Craig Calcaterra
‏@craigcalcaterra
Nine-year-old bat boy dies after being struck by a bat in a college summer league game http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/03/nine-year-old-bat-boy-dies-after-being-struck-by-a-bat-in-a-college-summer-league-game/ … via @HardballTalk

http://www.gofundme.com/4m6pwmm88g
The team is from the town of Liberal, Kansas.   

Read the many heartfelt comments.   And then consider the yahoo who couldn't resist sniping at the name "Liberal".  There's a time and place for everything but I can't recall anything more objectionable than what this guy said.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 03, 2015, 10:29:46 am
I think they deleted it, some people are just stupid.  When Keith Law tweeted it out he described it as Liberal boy and I was wondering why he would describe him that way.  140 characters can be bad sometimes.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 03, 2015, 10:37:03 am
Maybe they should have just described him as a Seward County boy instead.  Of course, there'd probably still be Twitter complaints from people who hate Alaska.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 03, 2015, 10:56:07 am
Liberal, KS boy or Kansas boy would have worked.  I certainly didn't keep me from clicking on the link.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on August 03, 2015, 12:55:29 pm
In the for what it's worth department, Wichita was also where Ben Christianson beaned Anthony Molina.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 03, 2015, 02:41:07 pm
Phillies are 12-3 after all-star break.

Takeaway:  even bad teams get hot and good teams get cold.  162 game season.

 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 03, 2015, 08:12:07 pm
The Braves fell down 6-0 against the Giants earlier tonight, but now it's 6-5 in the bottom of the 7th.  Go Braves.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on August 03, 2015, 08:14:40 pm
Glad we played the Mets when we did.  I think we're probably going to need every one of those 7 wins.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 03, 2015, 08:15:59 pm
Zach Godley, with 6 shutout innings against Nats, and Welly Castillo homers again.

1.50 ERA for Godley and .538 slugging for Castillo.

Oh, forget it already.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 03, 2015, 08:41:42 pm
Giants with three consecutive 2 out hits in the top of the 9th to regain a 2 run lead.  Sucks that the Giants have such a weak opponent while the Cubs have to face the Pirates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 03, 2015, 08:56:11 pm
Pierzynski!  2 run homer to tie the game with 2 outs in the 9th.

Come on, Maybin...walk off.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 03, 2015, 09:02:03 pm
If Godley can just keep up that 98.9% LOB%, the Cy Young is in the bag. Castillo makes me a little sad.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 03, 2015, 09:04:09 pm
He did me too until we called up Schwarber.

I did tell you all though.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 03, 2015, 09:09:26 pm
Zach Godley, with 6 shutout innings against Nats, and Welly Castillo homers again.

1.50 ERA for Godley and .538 slugging for Castillo.

Oh, forget it already.

Nice scouting job by the D'Backs on Godley.  I figured he was a little bit of a longshot to ever make the majors when we traded him.  Less than a year later, he's pitching effectively in a major league rotation. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 03, 2015, 09:10:27 pm
UT boy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 03, 2015, 09:13:39 pm
Let him throw a little more than 18 innings before we declare it a bad trade. He had a 5+ ERA in AA this year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 03, 2015, 09:22:24 pm
Oh, the Montero trade was a good one regardless. He's been a good player for us.

It's looking like Godley might have a chance to be a useful pitcher for them, though, which good for them if it happens. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 03, 2015, 09:52:57 pm
Arodys Vizcaino just gave up a hit that scored the go ahead run for the Giants. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 03, 2015, 10:00:08 pm
The Braves used 7 pitcher so far.  Aardsma, McKirahan, Brigham and Vizcaino all used to pitch for the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 03, 2015, 10:04:28 pm
Braves win.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 03, 2015, 10:05:25 pm
Giants LOSE!  Walk off homer for Adonis Garcia, whoever that is.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 03, 2015, 10:15:52 pm
Detroit's Mike Hessman became the real life Crash Davis tonight.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 03, 2015, 10:19:34 pm
Giants LOSE!  Walk off homer for Adonis Garcia, whoever that is.

Worst of all, fan in first row muffs walk-off homer and ball falls downstairs out of reach. Muff a walk-off. Ouch.

In 1964 or 1965, i'm sitting first row at Dodger Stadium left-field pavillion/bleachers with my friend Mike. We were 13 or 14.

Hank Aaron hits long flyball coming right at me and Mike. It's a homer!--clangs right off Mike's hands and falls down out of reach, down the stairs to lower concession area. We both knew it would haunt him rest of his life. "Hank Aaron, Hank Aaron!" He said. Think of that every time see a fan muff a big homer.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 03, 2015, 11:18:28 pm
Speaking of Hank Aaron, historic home run tonight!

Mike Hessman with homer #434---now the all-time career minor league home run king.

Has 2,347 Ks too.

Congrats to Mike.

Amazing career. Check it out.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hessma001mic
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 03, 2015, 11:39:09 pm
Reb must have me on ignore.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 03, 2015, 11:47:21 pm
Speaking of Hank Aaron, historic home run tonight!

Mike Hessman with homer #434---now the all-time career minor league home run king.

Has 2,347 Ks too.

Congrats to Mike.

Amazing career. Check it out.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hessma001mic

2006 definitely looked like a fun little season for him.  Batted .165 with 24 homers in 101 games.  That's Mark McGwire post-steroids-esque right there. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 04, 2015, 12:35:56 am
Reb must have me on ignore.

No, would never have you on ignore. Are you kidding?

Thought I would add some detail.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 04, 2015, 12:38:54 am
You cant really hate on that.

Dude has been able to go damn near 40 years without having to work, at least made it to the show, and if he's lucky enough to get a post playing days coaching job may be able to go his whole life without having to get a real job.

I doubt he's a rich man by any means but how much money do you really need?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 04, 2015, 12:39:45 am
Im sure a few have me on ignore Reb. Lol
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 04, 2015, 12:51:31 am
Buzz Arlett--432 home runs. Played most of career with historic Oakland Oaks and Minneapolis Millers clubs.

Check out his excellent offensive one-and-out season with Phillies in 1931. Arlett must have been one heck of a bad defensive player.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=arlett001rus
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 04, 2015, 07:18:35 am
Here's a long write-up on Arlett's career:

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/4419031b
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 04, 2015, 09:44:25 am
I think back in the 20's and 30's, a lot of top players in the PCL were just content to stay there instead of move on to MLB, and that might have been the case for Arlett.

That still doesn't quite explain why he didn't get another major league opportunity after his one season with the Phillies, though.  It sounds like the bad temper and bad defense might have played a part in it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 04, 2015, 01:54:21 pm
Catcher framing.

http://m.mlb.com/video/v328367083/sfatl-pierzynski-frames-aardsmas-pitch-in-dirt/?c_id=mlb
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 04, 2015, 02:08:13 pm
Only surprise is that it wasn't called a strike
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 04, 2015, 03:10:47 pm
Dave Dombrowski is out as Tigers GM.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 04, 2015, 03:18:57 pm
Wow!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 04, 2015, 03:30:52 pm
Kind of a surprise given Dombrowski's record in Detroit:

By virtue of his dual role as president and GM, Dombrowski, who turns 59 later this month, is credited with a large share of the Tigers' business and baseball success over the past decade.

The Tigers have drawn at least 30,000 fans per home game in each of the past 10 seasons, which happened only twice in franchise history prior to 2006.

On the field, the Tigers' 410 victories since the start of the 2011 season are the most in the American League and second only to the St. Louis Cardinals in the majors. The Tigers are the only MLB team to win its division in each of the past four years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 04, 2015, 03:32:26 pm
His contract was up at the end of the year and he has been connected to the Blue Jays in the off season.  I wonder if the Red Sox might want to bring him back to replace Larry.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 04, 2015, 09:54:25 pm
Mets acquired Eric O'Flaherty from the A's and DFA'd Alex Torres.  If Torres could get some of his control back, he'd be a nice upgrade over Russell.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 04, 2015, 10:09:57 pm
Just wondering what do you have against Russell?  Yeah I know he doesn't throw hard, doesn't K a guy per inning, and I'm sure Fangraphs is saying he'll blow up any day now.

But the guy is doing his job and holding lefties to a .600'ish OPS.  What else do you want from a LOOGY?

And I'd also venture to say, if you start cutting guys who do a good job just because advanced metrics suggest a blow up is about to happen, what kind of message does that send to other players in the clubhouse? Or potential free agents like he was earlier this season who can help us out?   
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 04, 2015, 10:31:07 pm
Russell has to be really perfect with his pitches to be effective. He has zero room for error.  Torres ERA was 3.18 and O'Flaherty was 5+.  I think it sends the message that the Cubs are looking to improve the team. I really doubt Price would care if the DFA'd James.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 04, 2015, 11:11:47 pm
Russell has to be really perfect with his pitches to be effective. He has zero room for error. Torres ERA was 3.18 . . .

So what if Russell has to be perfect with his pitches?  Doesn't that go for most guys who aren't in the Zack Greinke/David Price class of pitchers?  He's done pretty well with what he has up to this point. 

And judging by Torres's 26 BB's and 6 HR's in 34 IP and his .799 OPS vs. lefties, he's been a little less than perfect with his pitches this season and has been a little less perfect than Russell. 

Not everyone has to throw 95 mph to be effective in the league. 

Quote
I really doubt Price would care if the DFA'd James.

Yeah I'm sure if we offer David Price the most money and the most years, he doesn't give a flip about what we'd do with a guy like Russell.  He's asking "where do I sign?"

I'm thinking more along the lines of minor league free agents or middle of the road free agents who can help a team out.  If I'm a minor league free agent and I see the Cubs are going to cut a guy like Russell who's done a good job just so they can get a shinier castoff from another team who has been inferior to him in every other way this season other than that he throws a couple of mph harder, is that a team I really want to join if I have some other opportunities available?

Or if I'm in the Cubs clubhouse or in the Cubs bullpen and see us cut a guy who's been doing his job just so we can sign someone like that?  Perhaps clubhouse morale and all of that doesn't mean much today, but I can't imagine a transaction like that does a lot create a positive atmosphere on the team, especially when we're in the playoff hunt. 

Advanced metrics, velocity, and all of that are things to consider when making personnel decisions, but too much can definitely be read into them.  Teams can't be run totally by computer or like someone's fantasy team.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 04, 2015, 11:25:04 pm
Look at Alex Torres minor league walks.  The guy has walked a ton of guys forever.

The anomaly was the one year in SD when he didn't.

I've said this before (more than once) about Russell. He has had a major league career not because of his stuff but due to his toughness and determination. Managers and teammates like that type of guy---so long as he's getting hitters out at a useful % of the time. If you can replace Russell with a power guy who's really tough on lefties and can get righties out too, without too many walks, I'm all for that. Alex Torres is not that guy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 04, 2015, 11:38:49 pm
So what if Russell has to be perfect with his pitches

Not everyone has to throw 95 mph to be effective in the league. 

I'm thinking more along the lines of minor league free agents or middle of the road free agents who can help a team out.  If I'm a minor league free agent and I see the Cubs are going to cut a guy like Russell who's done a good job just so they can get a shinier castoff from another team who has been inferior to him in every other way this season other than that he throws a couple of mph harder, is that a team I really want to join if I have some other opportunities available?

Throwing 95 gives you a margin of error.  Miss with a 95 mph it might get fouled off.  Miss with a 88 mph fastball and it is likely going a long way. Russell has been very anti-HR this year, chances are that won't last.

Minor league free agents will also likely go to where the most money is, they just cost a lot less money. If they think they have a chance to get to majors because of a weakness in the org they will also sign. I don't think cutting Russell will affect them either.

The team chemistry is something I didn't really consider so maybe you have a point.  I think a lot of the guys want to win so if they think it will improve the team, I don't think it will matter. A lot of people want Castro gone or benched for Baez, myself included. That might affect the team more than Russell.

I'd also put somebody like Hendricks in a different category than Russell. His change up mad command are difference makers. So while he may get lit up in some games, he isn't some body I'd want to replace yet.  See it isn't always about the fastball.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on August 05, 2015, 04:15:39 am
Throwing 95 gives you a margin of error.  Miss with a 95 mph it might get fouled off.  Miss with a 88 mph fastball and it is likely going a long way. 

I wonder if Kyle Farnsworth is still available....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on August 05, 2015, 01:07:18 pm
you go JR
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on August 06, 2015, 12:57:28 am
His contract was up at the end of the year and he has been connected to the Blue Jays in the off season.  I wonder if the Red Sox might want to bring him back to replace Larry.


Bring him back?  He never worked in the Red Sox organization. 

Dombrowski has worked for 4 MLB organizations atarting with the White Sox before moving on to the Expos, then the Marlins and finally the Tigers.  He did work for Red Sox owner John Henry in the past but that was when Henry owned the Marlins.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 06, 2015, 08:09:05 am
Confused him in my head with Dan Duquette.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 06, 2015, 08:16:34 am
Confused him in my head with Dan Duquette.

You should apologize to Dombrowski immediately.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 06, 2015, 08:35:03 am
Confused him in my head with Dan Duquette.
As opposed to confused him in some other body part? 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 06, 2015, 05:09:39 pm
Adam Loewen v2.0 was called up by the Phillies today...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 07, 2015, 12:29:04 am
For those of you that are on Twitter, John Baker is an interesting follow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 07, 2015, 09:27:41 am
manbearwolf is awesome...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 07, 2015, 02:12:12 pm
Nick Swisher to the Braves. I would assume prospects are going with him as well.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 07, 2015, 02:23:17 pm
It's Swisher for Chris Johnson, so basically a swap of bad contracts.

Joel Sherman has Michael Bourn and cash also going to the Braves, but I haven't seen anyone else say that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 07, 2015, 02:29:50 pm
More than $10 million is going to the Braves in the deal.

This trade was all about getting Johnson's money off the payroll before they move into the new ballpark in 2017.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 07, 2015, 02:42:21 pm
If the Braves want to get rid of Maybin, he'd make a fine short term solution in CF. Badler had some videos of a couple Cuban guys. The 20 year old that starts with an A looks like a really interesting guy for CF. He also has been playing 2B/SS. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 07, 2015, 05:07:23 pm
Orioles call up Junior Lake.

Think Lake has a small, but possible, chance to evolve into a solid regular eventually. Athletic and taking forever to learn the game of baseball but think he has a chance.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 07, 2015, 06:24:01 pm
Rangers trade for Mike Napoli.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 07, 2015, 07:19:17 pm
Orioles call up Junior Lake.

Think Lake has a small, but possible, chance to evolve into a solid regular eventually. Athletic and taking forever to learn the game of baseball but think he has a chance.

Yep.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 07, 2015, 09:33:37 pm
Rob Neyer with a somewhat surprising piece on intangibles.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/derek-jeter-scott-rolen-teamship-intangibles-chemistry-curt-schilling-kirk-gibson-080415
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on August 07, 2015, 10:32:06 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz_gSjVBh-I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz_gSjVBh-I)


Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 08, 2015, 12:06:36 am
Astros getting Perez from the Dbacks for a minor leaguer.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: FDISK on August 08, 2015, 02:43:21 pm
Good article by Neyer.  I'm not sure why you found it "surprising".

When Bill James first started writing abstracts back in '80s I became an instant convert.  Over the years sabermetrics has ballooned. Now...it seems that sabermetrics is the end all...each new development taken as gospel. Not at all what James planned.

Like most prophets, he wouldn't recognize a modern religion.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 08, 2015, 03:45:15 pm
Good article by Neyer.  I'm not sure why you found it "surprising".

When Bill James first started writing abstracts back in '80s I became an instant convert.  Over the years sabermetrics has ballooned. Now...it seems that sabermetrics is the end all...each new development taken as gospel. Not at all what James planned.

Like most prophets, he wouldn't recognize a modern religion.

The "gospel" component are the outsiders--websites, bloggers, posters, etc. Way too much rigidity.

The insiders--the younger, cutting edge, educated folks who grew up reading James and others--are a different sort. They tend to actually interact with a more diverse population and most are inherently skeptical of dogma and are comfortable changing on the fly when circumstances warrant. Cubs leadership know all the sabernetric stuff too but hard to listen to them and conclude anything is gospel to them.

Think all of this is useful, even the dogma. Just have to separate the wheat from the chaff. This has been true of every advance in every discipline, ever. Skepticism is the foundation of the James Abstracts too. Skepticism permeates almost every page. The New Dogma warrants skepticism too. No different than anything else.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: FDISK on August 08, 2015, 04:01:14 pm
I always thought James was, among other things, the original "mythbuster". He was skeptical...of conventional wisdom...of established legend...and almost anything else that was taken for granted. He was also very skeptical of his own work. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 08, 2015, 04:24:02 pm
Right. Some folks think of James (and other contemporaries, Craig Wright, Pete Palmer, etc) as mostly about stats but really about examining the mostly unexplored status quo and dogma.

Amazing how all this now part of the game. A fantastically good thing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 08, 2015, 08:23:06 pm
Orioles released Bud Norris. Signing him to a minor league deal and seeing if they can straighten him out wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd still like an improvement over Russell out of the bullpen too. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 09, 2015, 12:39:59 am
Ha, nice bat flip.


https://vine.co/v/ewDPdPOiYbd
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 09, 2015, 03:14:26 am
Marlins now have worst record in baseball---one game worse than Phillies.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 09, 2015, 07:45:11 am
Jose Fernandez is headed back to Miami with shoulder tightness.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on August 09, 2015, 07:24:29 pm
And with this he will have his SECOND exhibit in the HOF in Cooperstown.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/sports/baseball/a-minor-league-home-run-king-without-major-fanfare.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=sports/baseball
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on August 09, 2015, 09:00:50 pm
that guy McCutcheon is good
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on August 09, 2015, 11:29:26 pm
With the Pirates beating the Dodgers tonight, the Cubs now have the third best record in the National League, as well as in the NL Central.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on August 10, 2015, 10:14:42 am
And the 4th best record in baseball, all while having played one of the toughest schedules to date. #thingsyouwouldntrealizereadingthetodaysgamethread
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on August 10, 2015, 10:28:42 am
Strange ending to the Arizona win over Cincinnati on Sunday

With the score tied 3-3, The Diamondbacks had the bases loaded with one out in the bottom of the 10th.   A line drive was hit over the centerfielder's head "ending the game".

Now watch the replay (after a brief commercial)


http://m.mlb.com/news/article/142241418/reds-lose-after-confusing-walk-off-ending (http://m.mlb.com/news/article/142241418/reds-lose-after-confusing-walk-off-ending)


The replay clearly shows the runner on first never made it to second and the guy on second headed to the celebration before reaching third.  My first thought was that the appeal by the Reds was denied because they tagged second before third, removing the force double play.  And did the security guy tossing the ball in make any difference?


Here's the key paragraph

Quote
But the Official Baseball Rules book is pretty explicit on this issue with less than two outs. Rule 5.08(b) in the 2015 edition, 4.09(b) in previous versions, states that on any play in that situation with the bases full "which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire shall not declare the game over until the runners forced from third has touched home and the batter-runner has touched first base."

I've never heard of that part of the rule before.




Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on August 10, 2015, 10:29:11 am
Really fascinating article on Alex Wood, and how going from one of the worst pitch framers to one of the best may be helping him: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/alex-wood-is-finding-his-strikeouts-again/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 11, 2015, 11:52:29 am
So...regarding Utley...the Giants can block the Dodgers, who can block the Cubs...right?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on August 11, 2015, 12:59:20 pm


Great Instagram photo of Johnny Cueto's Gatorade bath after his 4-hit shutout of the Tigers:



(https://igcdn-photos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t51.2885-15/11849863_1641027256142914_657230274_n.jpg)

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 11, 2015, 02:52:11 pm
Utley

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20150811_Phillies_Notebook__Chase_Utley_s_solid_return_from_injury_lures_would-be_suitors.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 11, 2015, 03:07:33 pm
I guess Toronto could be interested in Utley as well, depending on Travis's health...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 11, 2015, 04:06:19 pm
Rosenthal says Utley cleared waivers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 12, 2015, 03:57:01 am
Home teams went 15-0 Tuesday night.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 12, 2015, 05:00:40 pm
Hisashi Iwakuma has no-hit Baltimore thru 8 innings...Mariners lead 3-0.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 12, 2015, 05:13:58 pm
And he seals the deal...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 12, 2015, 10:18:14 pm
Kershaw perfect against Nats through 5.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 12, 2015, 10:28:07 pm
Double off Kershaw in 6th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 13, 2015, 01:00:30 am
Jays have gained 7 games on Yankees just in last 1 1/2 weeks to move into first place.

Things can change quickly.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 13, 2015, 11:36:46 am
We've learned that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on August 13, 2015, 01:07:29 pm
Thank goodness the Astros moved to the AL. How crazy would it be to still have them in the Central? Division is already bonkers as it is.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 13, 2015, 01:35:43 pm
Jeff Passan suggests getting rid of divisions and just putting the best teams in the playoffs:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/it-s-time-to-get-rid-of-divisions-in-baseball-144807888.html

I don't really want to get rid of divisions--I think they make the regular season more interesting.  But I do wish they would switch to determining seeding by teams' final records.  If a wild card team has the second best record, they should be the second seed. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 13, 2015, 01:59:20 pm
Hasn't the NBA decided to move in that direction?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 13, 2015, 02:21:20 pm
Br, wouldn't seeding like that de facto make divisions meaningless?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on August 13, 2015, 02:36:50 pm
Not necessarily.  The division crown and "regional bragging rights" would still exist.  You would likely still play more games within your division, too, so it's not like the divisions would be totally meaningless.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 13, 2015, 02:44:32 pm
I'm all for ideas that make regular season more important.

So, under current records, would put Pirates and Cubs each directly in 5 game series and Dodgers and Mets in one-game and out game.  Winning division gets them into post-season, even if, say, had 6th and 7th best records.  Why not?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on August 13, 2015, 02:52:54 pm
Winners of weak divisions ought to have it harder in the playoffs than they already do.  A higher percentage of their wins come against weaker teams, as opposed to the wild card from a good division (i.e., Cubs), who have to earn their wins against the strong teams (Cardinals, Pirates) in their division.  Would be more fair.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 13, 2015, 03:01:30 pm
I think the Cubs should be seeded into the playoffs every year based on their not having been to the World Series for 100+ years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on August 13, 2015, 03:07:55 pm
I think the Cubs should be seeded into the playoffs every year based on their not having been to the World Series for 100+ years.

They are... which is why you dont see them in the playoffs :)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 13, 2015, 03:19:30 pm
?  I need to reread that a few times.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 13, 2015, 03:23:24 pm
Br, wouldn't seeding like that de facto make divisions meaningless?

No, the divisions are still meaningful because the division winners still get in...they just aren't necessarily guaranteed an LDS spot like they are now. 

To me, it's better for baseball to have the best teams with the advantage in the playoffs.  Just using the current standings as an example, the top three teams get screwed--the second and third best teams have to face each other in a one game playoff.  Then the team with the best record has to go into a five game series where they may face Arrieta, Lester, or Cole twice.  Meanwhile, the 4th and 5th best teams in the league each get to skip the crapshoot game AND each get to face a more flawed team in the Division Series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 13, 2015, 06:38:09 pm
Lance Lynn gives up 6 runs in the first inning and is pulled after 2/3 an inning.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on August 13, 2015, 06:39:01 pm
That is a good start!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on August 13, 2015, 06:41:15 pm
Now 7-0.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on August 13, 2015, 08:02:01 pm
I think the Cubs should be seeded into the playoffs every year based on their not having been to the World Series for 100+ years.

1945, 1938, 1935, 1932 (Ruth's "called shot"), 1929, 1918 and 1910.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 13, 2015, 08:02:36 pm
Defensive Runs Saved leaders

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=10,d&page=1_30
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 13, 2015, 08:08:11 pm
By that metric, the Cub infield is good.  The outfield is bad.  Very bad.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 13, 2015, 08:42:34 pm
Cards have cut it to 7-4, bases loaded, one out in the 7th.  I know it's fairly unrealistic to think that we might catch them, but I just can't root for them over (anyone including) the Pirates.  Hang on, Buccos.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 13, 2015, 08:50:00 pm
I want the Cards to have the best record in baseball.   It will hurt those pompous bastard fans more when they lose in the first round.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 13, 2015, 08:52:30 pm
I'm curious how the playoff weddings work.  Assuming the Cards finish with the best record in the NL do they get the winner of the wild card or the team with the playoff team with the worst record?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on August 13, 2015, 09:26:39 pm
I believe they get the wild card game winner.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 13, 2015, 09:30:27 pm
Yeah, my understanding is that the team with the best record now faces the wild card team no matter what.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on August 13, 2015, 09:33:46 pm
Cards lose 10-5.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 13, 2015, 10:15:09 pm
http://www.mlbplayoffsbracket.com/2015/index.php
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 13, 2015, 11:02:21 pm
Nationals not even on the grid.  Hard to believe that Williams will hold onto his job.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 13, 2015, 11:35:17 pm
Utley situation.

http://m.phillies.mlb.com/news/article/143023830/chase-utley-has-offers-from-multiple-teams
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on August 14, 2015, 01:19:08 am
Alcantara's roster status is now "Temporarily Inactive." I wonder if he's going to the Phillies for Utley.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 14, 2015, 01:32:33 am
Usually that's a personal leave of absence type thing.

Not sure why would be done to trade a guy. Just trade the guy.  But, who knows.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 14, 2015, 10:01:55 am
An article on the Cards' luck this season.  They have given up 66 fewer runs than any team in the MLs, so luck probably isn't the only factor!

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-st-louis-cardinals-cluster-luck/?ex_cid=story-twitter
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 14, 2015, 11:17:30 am
The only team more hapless than the Cubs is going out of business.

http://www.foxsports.com/other/story/washington-generals-fold-opponent-no-longer-play-harlem-globetrotters-081415?=_mid=302605&_rid=302605.12301.14397&cmpid=emc:fscom:top
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 14, 2015, 01:09:40 pm
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  6m6 minutes ago
Chase Utley controls where he'll go, but executives involved believe the #Phillies 2B will ultimately choose between the #Cubs and #Angels.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 14, 2015, 01:21:17 pm
There's the question of whether the Cubs will pay the asking price.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 14, 2015, 01:36:07 pm
Im all for adding Utley.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 14, 2015, 01:41:58 pm
Edwin Jackson to the Braves. 

Offman just tweeted that the Cubs lead the Utley derby, so it won't be happening.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 14, 2015, 01:43:30 pm
There are some rumors out there that Utley is only going to approve a trade if the team will guarantee playing time.  If that's the case, the Cubs should stay away.  Utley deserves as much playing time as he earns once he's here.

Unrelated--Edwin Jackson has signed a major league deal to pitch in relief for the Braves.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 14, 2015, 01:48:49 pm
I dont see it posted here yet but the Braves signed Edwin Jackson.

LOL
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on August 14, 2015, 02:24:49 pm
Dusty has BR and CBJ blocked?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 14, 2015, 02:27:51 pm
I think he was teasing br.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 14, 2015, 02:45:05 pm
Regarding Utley playing time assurances---sounds nice to say only gets playing time that he deserves.

But, in real world, folks with some bargaining power get reasonable assurances. So, if Cubs want him, have to give some assurances. Doesn't mean assurance that keeps job if goes 2 for 25 but assurance that will have acceptable role from get-go--based on what Utley thinks is acceptable. Probably means a starter, at least vs. righties.

Yeah, would cost Coghlan playing time, but can play some RF, and LF when Schwarber catches. Maddon knows how to use a bench.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 14, 2015, 02:47:00 pm
Coghlan could also get some time at third to give Bryant a day off. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 14, 2015, 03:05:39 pm
Will be interesting to see how Maddon uses bench when he has bunch of extra guys on Sept 1. Doesn't seem to have qualms making moves with 4 bench guys--figures to go whole hog with 8 or whatever. Extra bullpen guys too. Might take an additional 10 minutes to play the average game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on August 14, 2015, 03:33:54 pm
Regarding Utley playing time assurances---sounds nice to say only gets playing time that he deserves.

But, in real world, folks with some bargaining power get reasonable assurances. So, if Cubs want him, have to give some assurances. Doesn't mean assurance that keeps job if goes 2 for 25 but assurance that will have acceptable role from get-go--based on what Utley thinks is acceptable. Probably means a starter, at least vs. righties.

Yeah, would cost Coghlan playing time, but can play some RF, and LF when Schwarber catches. Maddon knows how to use a bench.

1.  Might not make much sense to bargain into a guy with leverage when you've got a good thing going as is. 2/25 is extreme; but what if he's 6/35?  Is that enough to realize you'd rather have Coghlan? 

2.  I expect you guys have discussed this before, but wouldn't next year be very much a part of Utley's consideration?   Does he want to go to a place that's sure to buy him out?  Or to a place that might keep him?  If the latter, wouldn't the playing time issue be about next year as well as this? 

That's an interesting question for the Cubs.  They are on a youth program, and with Russell/Baez/Castro/Alcantara the assumption has been a middle-infield surplus.  Maybe the Cubs will very much want to hold 2B for Baez, and give Castro another shot to come back next year, and view LaStella as some serviceable anti-awful insurance, and figure that even if nothing works out that well that Torres isn't that far off anyway. 

But I wonder if Utley for next year might make some sense. 
*Baez could be your winter trade chip, or else could compete for AB's and/or be a utility guy, and/or go back for more practice at Iowa.  (If he's really going to be good, at some point he ought to be able to sustain some excellence at Iowa.  And if he can't sustain excellence at Iowa, maybe we shouldn't be holding 2B for him in the majors either?)  If Baez does emerge as a worthwhile heavy-usage guy next year, that's great, and paying Utley $8 or whatever, thank your lucky stars that you didn't really need him.  And if Baez doesn't emerge as a useful player, than thank your lucky stars that you hadn't counted on him. 
*Castro could get moved for the best deal that you can get, whatever that might be.  Or could be kept as a competition/bench guy. 

It would be nice to have the opportunity to shop Baez. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 14, 2015, 03:34:45 pm
Dusty has BR and CBJ blocked?

I have two people on ignore.

One posts very rarely and one posts every day.

It shouldnt be hard to figure out who one of them is.

And yes I was just playing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: OkieCubsFan on August 14, 2015, 03:41:15 pm
Is it me?!?!?!?!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 14, 2015, 03:42:13 pm
I'm the only one that doesn't have you on Ignore, Okie.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 14, 2015, 03:44:53 pm
John Farrell has been diagnosed with stage 1 Lymphoma; Torey Lovullo will manage the Red Sox for the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 14, 2015, 03:56:45 pm
No Okie it isnt you.

Its the one who only posts crazy trade ideas that he makes up in his head.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 14, 2015, 04:19:52 pm
No Okie it isnt you.

Its the one who only posts crazy trade ideas that he makes up in his head.
Davep? 

No, can't be him.  He has no ideas of any kind.  Nothing goes on in his head.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 14, 2015, 04:23:22 pm
Jose Valverde gets an 80 game PED suspension.  He's 37 years old and hasn't been good in a while, so that probably ends his career.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 14, 2015, 04:24:05 pm
What is wrong with some of these guys that they think they can still get away with it?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 14, 2015, 04:27:03 pm
Well, it was almost certain Valverde's career was over anyway...so I guess it might have been worth the risk for him.  If his tests had happened to come at the right time so it's out of his system, he might squeeze another couple of million out of major league teams. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 14, 2015, 04:44:06 pm
1.  Might not make much sense to bargain into a guy with leverage when you've got a good thing going as is. 2/25 is extreme; but what if he's 6/35?  Is that enough to realize you'd rather have Coghlan? 

2.  I expect you guys have discussed this before, but wouldn't next year be very much a part of Utley's consideration?   Does he want to go to a place that's sure to buy him out?  Or to a place that might keep him?  If the latter, wouldn't the playing time issue be about next year as well as this? 

That's an interesting question for the Cubs.  They are on a youth program, and with Russell/Baez/Castro/Alcantara the assumption has been a middle-infield surplus.  Maybe the Cubs will very much want to hold 2B for Baez, and give Castro another shot to come back next year, and view LaStella as some serviceable anti-awful insurance, and figure that even if nothing works out that well that Torres isn't that far off anyway. 

But I wonder if Utley for next year might make some sense. 
*Baez could be your winter trade chip, or else could compete for AB's and/or be a utility guy, and/or go back for more practice at Iowa.  (If he's really going to be good, at some point he ought to be able to sustain some excellence at Iowa.  And if he can't sustain excellence at Iowa, maybe we shouldn't be holding 2B for him in the majors either?)  If Baez does emerge as a worthwhile heavy-usage guy next year, that's great, and paying Utley $8 or whatever, thank your lucky stars that you didn't really need him.  And if Baez doesn't emerge as a useful player, than thank your lucky stars that you hadn't counted on him. 
*Castro could get moved for the best deal that you can get, whatever that might be.  Or could be kept as a competition/bench guy. 

It would be nice to have the opportunity to shop Baez. 

Yeah, Utley 2016 has come up. CBJ noted that Utley contract has club option at $11 max for 2016. If he played very well for remainder of 2015, could see club taking that option. Probably depends whether you project (as I do) that Cubs intend to bring in veteran guy (Zobrist, Kendrick, etc.) in 2016 to play 2B and that plan is to trade both baez and Castro.

As to Utley's intentions, he has said recently 2015 playing time is crucial for him because wants to play in 2016 (and to showcase now what he can do next year). Knows he has something to prove, so can't realistically expect any club to give assurances to him for 2016. Depends how he performs now but surely he is aware how things might shake out for each interested club on table now. Giants, no for 2016--for sure. Angels, maybe. Cubs, maybe.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 14, 2015, 08:22:08 pm
Are the White Sox better than the Royals?

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/8/13/9144747/ken-harrelson-chicago-white-sox-better-than-kansas-city-royals
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 14, 2015, 09:21:40 pm
Tulowitzki is having an amazing AB vs. Andrew Miller in the bottom of 9th, 2 outs, 4-3 Yankees game with 2 runners on.  McCann is going out to the mound almost every pitch.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 14, 2015, 09:22:06 pm
And it's a K.  Blue Jays streak over, Cubs are officially the undisputed hottest team in baseball.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 14, 2015, 09:49:29 pm
Cory Kluber CG win---pitches to 28 batters, one over minimum.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 14, 2015, 09:53:41 pm
Utley 4-5 tonight...11-22 since coming off DL...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 14, 2015, 09:57:04 pm
Red Sox with FORTY total bases tonight, beating Seattle.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 14, 2015, 10:04:07 pm
Scherzer getting crushed by the Giants...5-1 in the second inning, only out in the inning was a sac bunt by Matt Cain.  There have been four doubles in the inning.

Belt grounds out, 2 outs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 14, 2015, 10:36:21 pm
Kinda liked the Jays' streak keeping the spotlight off the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 15, 2015, 01:54:45 pm
Felix Hernandez gave up 12 runs in 2-1/3 against Boston today.  He's allowed 23 runs in 15-1/3 IP over 3 of his last 4 starts.


Edit:

Make that 10 runs today, 21 over 3 of his last 4.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 15, 2015, 01:57:35 pm
10 runs---12 hits. Bad enough.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on August 15, 2015, 02:10:50 pm
Boston scored 15 against Seattle Friday night.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 15, 2015, 03:38:51 pm
Red Sox up to 22 runs and counting.

Jackie Bradley Jr is 5-6 with 2 homers, 3 doubles, 14 total bases, and 7 RBI.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on August 15, 2015, 04:56:54 pm
Boston wins 22-10.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on August 15, 2015, 05:02:29 pm
All that Red Sox scoring after

Quote
BOSTON -- Manager John Farrell has visited the Red Sox a day after announcing he is taking a medical leave for the rest of the season to deal with lymphoma.

The 53-year-old Farrell was in his office Saturday morning and joked with the players and interim manager Torey Lovullo.

The Red Sox had their best offensive game of the season Friday, posting season highs in runs and hits in a 15-1 win over Seattle.

Lovullo says "The feedback was it took him staying out of the dugout to score that many runs yesterday. He added some humor that we all appreciated through that tough moment."

Farrell said Friday he had a "highly curable" form of cancer that was discovered when he had hernia surgery on Monday in Detroit. He said he'll begin chemotheraphy treatment next week.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on August 15, 2015, 10:20:09 pm
What happened to the Nationals? They are rotten.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 15, 2015, 10:31:12 pm
Edwin Jackson threw 2 1/3 perfect innings with 4 Ks in his Braves debut tonight. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 15, 2015, 11:21:08 pm
Ausmus and Williams should be fired any day.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 16, 2015, 01:21:06 am
Red Sox with 85 total bases combined last two games.

That is a lot of hitting the baseball.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 16, 2015, 08:19:17 am
Ausmus and Williams should be fired any day.

Wasn't Ausmus supposed to be the next great manager, someone the Cubs were criticized for not hiring?  I actually have no idea what kind of job Ausmus has done - does anyone else here?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 16, 2015, 08:48:21 am
He's not as bad as Matt Williams.  I'm not sure Asmus is anything special as manager, but he has a team on the decline so he will likely take the fall at some point.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 16, 2015, 10:22:51 am
I'm just mad at Ausmus because twice in the last two weeks he's failed to allow Verlander to finish a shutout, only to have the bullpen blow it.  I have Verlander in fantasy ball.

Ausmus has been beset by injuries this year and uncertainties with free agents.  Losing Scherzer didn't help either.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 16, 2015, 03:19:55 pm
It would be nice if the Nats could salvage a game today.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 17, 2015, 10:34:18 am
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-st-louis-cardinals-cluster-luck/

An interesting read on the Cardinals pitching this year.

Some interesting facts
-5th largest difference between ERA and FIP since WWII
-81.5% LOB rate is the highest in history. The are 1.9% higher than the #2 team, the year of pitcher 1968 Tigers
-The Cardinals OPS with the bases empty is .700 (league averageish).  Men On .584,  RISP .552
-Bases Empty BABIP .314, RISP BABIP .239
-This has been worth between 61-84 runs depending on the source (6-8 wins)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 17, 2015, 11:43:32 am
"The Cardinals’ ERA is 2.60, almost six-tenths of a run lower than the second-place Mets’. Speaking of Mets, Matt Harvey’s ERA is 2.61: Imagine a team that always has Harvey pitching, on full rest and without any worries about workload, and you’ll get some sense of how stingy St. Louis’s pitching has been."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 17, 2015, 06:26:49 pm
Di, the "experts" have been saying that the Cardinals will come back to earth this year yet.  Why?  Martinez and Wacha have never pitched the number of innings of a top MLB pitcher.  Lynn and Lackey both have had bad streaks in the past.  If either went down, the Cardinals will be hurting; that's why they were looking at adding pitching at the deadline, and may still try to squeak someone like Shields through.  Maybe the "experts" are dreamin', but Lynn gave up a ton in the first inning last week and Martinez blew up on Sunday, so maybe the "experts" were right.  They were talking about this on MLB about two months ago.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 17, 2015, 06:41:38 pm
The Cards could certainly continue to out perform their peripherals. They did it a few years ago with RISP, but they will eventually return to normal. The Cards are still a very good and would be in the playoff mix, they just wouldn't be running away with the division.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 17, 2015, 06:44:17 pm
Curt - I keep waiting for that as well, but we're gettin' pretty late in the game.  I would LOVE to see them start to slip and fall into a wild card spot (to us, preferably, of course) and then be done after one post-season game.  (If we can't win the division, taking them out in a one-game wild card playoff would be pretty sweet, too.)  Obviously those scenarios come with some horrible risk (losing to them in a one-game playoff would be unbearably painful), but such is life.  I do feel like the luck (and stats) will bite them eventually.  But they are the effing Cardinals, so if anyone can defy statistics and laws of averages...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 17, 2015, 06:54:42 pm
The Cardinals continue to thrive without Wainwright, Adams, Holliday, and others, plus Molina's hitting .220.  Why anyone would think they would falter at this point is a mystery.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 17, 2015, 07:24:10 pm
It never fails
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on August 17, 2015, 07:48:57 pm
If you really wanted a historic season, it would be best to face a do-or-die wildcard matchup with the mighty Pirates.  And win. 
Then face the really really good Cardinals in a full series, and beat them in a full, long, well-played series.  The drama of playing a close, tight, well-played series with the great Cardinals, and then beating them, that would be really a season to remember.  But, let's get that shot at the wildcard game. 

These last couple of weeks have been perhaps as fun a stretch of Cubs baseball as I can remember, or we might almost ever experience.  How often does any team, no matter how good, win 15 out of 16 games?  While hitting almost every game, and getting variably consistent pitching and relief pitching?  That was a super fun run of baseball.  We might have a run of very good seasons, and reach the playoffs in several/many of them.  But will we ever go on a 15-1 binge again?  I don't really expect to ever have a run like that again in my life.  (I was surprised that they'd had a 14-1 in my past memory.) 

Part of the fun also the setting.  We had a winning record, but entering that run I thought we were unlikely to make the playoffs, and that we just really didn't have enough hitting to to be a good team or to take seriously.  But with all of these run-scoring games, suddenly this run opened new thoughts:  this team really is good, it's not just an average .500 team who happened to win a bunch of 1-run and extra-inning games.  This actually is a really good team, and it's got a chance this year and beyond.  Kind of the fun of the underdog, unexpected, fun surprise.  1984 was like that; nobody expected anything, and for a while it was just a not-that-good team overachieving big; but then with Eckersley and Sutcliffe it turned into a team that actually was really good.  That was such a fun season; this one feels kind of like that.  (1989 was also a super fun unexpected successful season.) 

And certainly part of the fun is the realization that some of the guys really are pretty good.  Russell has emerged as a pretty good player.  Don't know how good he'll be, but he's going to stick.  Schwarber will have his slumps, but I think he's probably going to be a hitter.  Soler was down for quite a while, but he's been contributing a lot lately, and having gone through the downs and doing better again, I'm much more confident that he's going to make it as a big-league bat.  Bryant don't know how good he'll be, but he's probably going to survive as a variably good offensive guy, too.  It's fun to see those guys kind of emerging as guys who can be variably capable guys on a 90+ team.  Likewise fun to see Arrieta showing such consistency of quality.  NO pitcher last forever, but for now he's for real and he's very good.  Lester is a long-term guy, and his stuff doesn't seem that great, and he's hardly overwhelming, but man that guy is a tough battler, and a great reminder of what a valuable pitch a good cutter is. 

Did I ever mention that I really like the cutter and wish Cub pitchers used it more and more effectively?  Lester's use of the cutter has been exemplary. 

It's been fun. 



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 17, 2015, 07:55:10 pm
Fun post and perspective to get us through an off-day.  Thanks, Craig.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on August 17, 2015, 09:05:19 pm
Heyward left the Cards game early with a hamstring injury.  The Cards tried to play him in CF.  They already have Grichuck and Holliday on the DL.  At some point the injuries have to be too much for them right? 

Hopefully not this series though as we need them to beat the Giants. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on August 17, 2015, 09:27:23 pm
Speaking of the freaking Cardinals, I still can't believe the got Randall Grichuk (and Bourjos) for David Freese and Fernando Salas.

I'm afraid Grichuk is going to be a monster...he certainly has been so far this season when on the field.  The kid can really hit!  And appears fast/solid fielder.

I'd love to see them go on a losing streak of about 12 years, but sure seems lots more likely they're going to continue to be a great organization that produces consistently strong teams.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 17, 2015, 09:44:54 pm
Tie game in the 8th, Cardinals get a triple from new star Steven Piscotty. After an IBB, Reynolds somehow fights off several 2-strike pitches and hits a grounder to the best SS in the game. Instead of flipping the ball to 2nd for the DP, Crawford spins around, runs to the bag for the force, and then throws the ball away to give the Cardinals the lead.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on August 17, 2015, 09:46:08 pm
Dbacks beat Pirates/Cole tonight and Cards lead Giants, 2-1, in the 9th.

Hopefully, we can gain a bit of ground on the other key WC contenders (at least as of now).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 17, 2015, 10:05:06 pm
Cards beat the Giants.  That's for the best, I would say.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 17, 2015, 10:45:32 pm
Couldn't bring myself to actually root for it, but yes, probably for the best.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on August 18, 2015, 04:15:12 am
The only way to look at it is don't hope for a Cardinals win, hope for  a Giants loss.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 18, 2015, 04:49:04 am
There's a Yogi Berra-ism if there ever was one.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on August 18, 2015, 08:33:38 am
Or as Tommy LaSorda says "If we don't win, I hope you guys do".
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 18, 2015, 08:45:16 am

The only way to look at it is don't hope for a Cardinals win, hope for  a Giants loss.
Exactly! I'll never root for the Cardinals under any circumstances, but I've been a big fan of Giants losses for 25 years or so as well...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on August 18, 2015, 09:13:39 am
Matchups like that, I root for long extra-inning games with excessive wear and tear on both teams' bullpens (with bonus points for fights leading to key player injuries and league suspensions).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on August 18, 2015, 11:41:30 am
Quote
Exactly! I'll never root for the Cardinals under any circumstances

Amen.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on August 18, 2015, 02:43:19 pm
Exactly! I'll never root for the Cardinals under any circumstances, but I've been a big fan of Giants losses for 25 years or so as well...

What if it was the last day of the season, and the Cardinals had to win in order to get the cubs into the playoffs?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 18, 2015, 02:48:48 pm
Rooting for the Giants to lose in the present series is in fact rooting for the Cardinals.  With tempered enthusiasm, of course. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 18, 2015, 03:05:57 pm
What if it was the last day of the season, and the Cardinals had to win in order to get the cubs into the playoffs?
I would hope the other team choked horribly. I would expect the Cardinals to roll over and let their opponent have their way with them.

Rooting for the Giants to lose in the present series is in fact rooting for the Cardinals.  With tempered enthusiasm, of course. 
I'm not rooting for the Giants to lose to the Cardinals. I'm not rooting for the Cardinals to beat the Giants. I'm simply taking satisfaction in the Giants losses...which I have been doing regularly since the fall of 1989.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 18, 2015, 03:07:24 pm
It's kinda like when Tennessee plays Mississippi State in football.

There are no winners.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 18, 2015, 03:18:21 pm
It's kinda like when Tennessee plays Mississippi State in football.

There are no winners.

If you werent a Cub fan.

And the owner of the board...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 18, 2015, 05:01:07 pm
I like the Cubs more than I dislike the Cardinals.  And I despise the Cardinals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on August 18, 2015, 05:49:39 pm
It's kinda like when Tennessee plays Mississippi State in football.

There are no winners.


If you werent a Cub fan.

And the owner of the board...


That's gold there.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 18, 2015, 07:41:29 pm
Will Venable traded to the Rangers. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 18, 2015, 08:43:53 pm
Big Red Sox news: Dombrowski is the new President of Baseball Operations, and Cherington is stepping down but will help in the transition.

I wonder if Cherington will be employed by the Cubs by this time next year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 18, 2015, 08:52:56 pm
Bob Nightengale says that Frank Wren--the guy the Braves have tried to erase from their team's history--is the leading candidate to be the new Red Sox GM under Dombrowski.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 18, 2015, 09:13:28 pm
Welly's the tying run for the D'Backs in the 9th. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 18, 2015, 09:16:18 pm
Pirates win.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on August 18, 2015, 09:20:59 pm
Hawk just called some writer a moron.

I guess he would notice it. Cannot wait until this clown is off TV. I don't know how the Sox fans can handle him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 18, 2015, 09:23:59 pm
Giants threatening vs. Cards.  This is shaping up to be one miserable night.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 18, 2015, 09:31:41 pm
Pirates win.

Uh.... Not yet.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 18, 2015, 09:33:26 pm
I missed something. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 18, 2015, 10:02:39 pm
Cargo pulled from Rockies game. To steal a BleacherNation tweet HugWatch or InjuryWatch?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 18, 2015, 11:25:10 pm
Injury, of course...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 19, 2015, 12:15:59 am
Hunter Pence to the DL with an oblique injury.  That hurts the Giants.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 19, 2015, 12:58:46 pm
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 
Sources: Utley situation with #Phillies coming to head. Trade possible today.


Yesterday the consensus among reporters was that Utley was not going to be traded.  Who knows what to believe.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 19, 2015, 01:02:42 pm
With Hunter Pence going to the DL I wonder if the Giants can promise him playing time.  Utley could play 1B when Panick comes back and Belt could go to the OF. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on August 19, 2015, 01:29:18 pm
Did Pence hurt himself while twitching in the batter's box?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 19, 2015, 02:16:31 pm
Multiple reporters are saying the Dodgers.

Utley + $4 million to Dodgers for 2 minor leaguers (mid-tier prospects what ever that means).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 19, 2015, 02:55:59 pm
The Dodgers always seem to get whomever they want. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 19, 2015, 03:03:09 pm
Utley and Rollins are reunited.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 19, 2015, 03:06:16 pm
The Dodgers are paying something like $85 million this year for players to play for other teams.  I really hope their cable deal implodes and they are stuck with payroll they can't pay.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 19, 2015, 03:14:17 pm
Zach Godley back up to majors.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on August 19, 2015, 03:43:26 pm
Quote
I really hope their cable deal implodes and they are stuck with payroll they can't pay.

That would warm my heart.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 20, 2015, 03:27:31 pm
Marlon Byrd traded to the Giants.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AZSteve on August 20, 2015, 03:33:31 pm
Good add...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 20, 2015, 04:27:37 pm
Who is everyone rooting for in the Giants-Pirates series? Almost feels like a psychological assessment which way you lean on this one
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 20, 2015, 04:31:28 pm
Who is everyone rooting for in the Giants-Pirates series? Almost feels like a psychological assessment which way you lean on this one

I'm rooting for the Cubs.  One of the other teams will lose ground on the Cubs so long as the Cubs win.  So, there is the potential for this to be a win-win for the Cubs (so long as they win).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 04:34:50 pm
Probably need to root for the Pirates at this point.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 20, 2015, 04:37:07 pm
I'm rooting for the Cubs.  One of the other teams will lose ground on the Cubs so long as the Cubs win.  So, there is the potential for this to be a win-win for the Cubs (so long as they win).

Yep.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on August 20, 2015, 04:38:28 pm
Who is everyone rooting for in the Giants-Pirates series? Almost feels like a psychological assessment which way you lean on this one

Pirates, totally.  We're 4 behind Pittsburgh, 3 up on Giants.  A lot more plausible that we finish ahead of Giants than that we pass Pirates. 

Also more likely that we finish ahead of Giants with some room to spare, than that we pass the Pirates with room to spare.  The "room to spare" part matters, because if we're 5 up on the Giants going into the last week, for example, you might be able to set up the rotation so that you can get Arrieta or Lester starting the sudden-death game, rather than Haren or Hammel. 

As Ron says, if the Cubs win, they don't need to worry.  (At least about the Giants.) 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 20, 2015, 04:53:57 pm
The Cubs have 6 games left with the Pirates.  Getting home field would be huge, so I'd roll the dice and hope for the Giants to sweep.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on August 20, 2015, 05:03:09 pm
Giants.  Secondary gain:  I still want them to pass the Dodgers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 20, 2015, 06:21:59 pm
Wow, I was shocked to find out this guy was still pitching . . .

Quote
Randy Wolf - S - Tigers

Tigers acquired LHP Randy Wolf from the Blue Jays for cash considerations.
The Tigers were in need of a starter with Anibal Sanchez and Daniel Norris both sidelined, so Wolf is back in the majors and will pitch Saturday against the Rangers. The veteran southpaw has compiles a 2.53 ERA and 106/40 K/BB ratio in 139 2/3 innings over 23 starts this season at the Triple-A level. He turns 39 on Saturday.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 07:14:13 pm
Pirates lead the Giants 2-0 after 3 innings.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 07:19:06 pm
Morton retires the Giants quickly in the 4th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 07:36:10 pm
Giants fail to score in the 5th.  Still 2-0 Pirates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 07:42:54 pm
Pirates fail to score in the 5th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 07:49:28 pm
Giants go down in order in the 6th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 07:57:47 pm
2-run HR for Neil Walker.  4-0 Pirates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 08:16:41 pm
Hughes replaces Morton with 2 outs and the bases loaded in the 7th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 08:22:21 pm
Still 4-0 Pirates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 20, 2015, 08:27:12 pm
Pirates, totally.  We're 4 behind Pittsburgh, 3 up on Giants.  A lot more plausible that we finish ahead of Giants than that we pass Pirates. 


Of course.

Giants is likely either making post-season or not making post-season. Pirates is home field or not. Making post-season bigger priority by wide margin.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 20, 2015, 08:30:11 pm
Correct. If the Cubs can get some separation from the Giants, then we can root for them in matchups against Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 20, 2015, 08:59:12 pm
Pirates beat the Giants.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on August 20, 2015, 09:10:30 pm
Giants have a tough stretch right now but they have a relatively easy schedule to close out the year.  We need as many games on then as possible, especially with the 13 games left against the Cardinals/Pirates and the tough 6 game Giants/Dodgers trip next week.  I'll be perfectly happy to go in as the second wildcard this season.  That would be amazing and anything beyond that game would be icing on the cake. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 20, 2015, 09:42:52 pm
.....I'll be perfectly happy to go in as the second wildcard this season.  That would be amazing and anything beyond that game would be icing on the cake. 

Stop that!  ;D

Whole point of playing 162 games and getting into post-season is to reach the World Series and WIN.

Will suck to lose wild card game or to lose any post-season series.

Not that keen on a participatory medal this season. Would not assume that subsequent seasons better than this season. Never know.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on August 20, 2015, 09:57:00 pm
Heh heh, I'd like to win something.  But if we have 162 games of fascination and fun, and then one bad day, I'm sure not going to focus on the one sad day.  Let's keep the fun going for 162 games, so that we can take our chances in a sudden death. 

But I think I'm going to enjoy if it things stay fun for the full 162 games. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 20, 2015, 10:06:15 pm
Yeah, regular season is great...but there has been a let's-temper-expectations thread on this board all season.

Don't care for that at all.

World Series is not iceing on the cake. It's what these guys play for.

And, same for fans. Let's think like Yankees fans or Cardinals fans. Things are different now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 20, 2015, 10:58:02 pm
Yeah, regular season is great...but there has been a let's-temper-expectations thread on this board all season.

Don't care for that at all.

World Series is not iceing on the cake. It's what these guys play for.

And, same for fans. Let's think like Yankees fans or Cardinals fans. Things are different now.

This. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 21, 2015, 12:18:49 am
Ever seen this before?

http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2015/08/20/144360518/marcell-ozuna-hits-home-run-off-top-of-foul-pole
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 21, 2015, 01:43:29 am
Archer threw a 1-hitter in Houston with 11 K's on just 98 pitches.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 21, 2015, 06:43:06 am
Yeah, regular season is great...but there has been a let's-temper-expectations thread on this board all season.

Don't care for that at all.

World Series is not iceing on the cake. It's what these guys play for.

And, same for fans. Let's think like Yankees fans or Cardinals fans. Things are different now.

Speaking for myself, I'm not trying to "temper expectations" of anyone. But if the only thing being a fan is about is playing for the World Series, it's a mystery to me why any of us have followed the Cubs so closely and faithfully for decades, most years of which it was clear that the team had virtually no chance to getting there.  I enjoy the game itself, I enjoy rooting for favorite players and I especially enjoy watching the team perform well, even in years they don't get to the World Series.

In any event, I'm sorry that you don't care for how others approach the season.  I had not realized there was one and only one approach to being a proper fan.   ;)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on August 21, 2015, 08:51:49 am
Don't set your goals very high.  That way you will never be disappointed.

Seriously, you should have a primary goal that is attainable and a "stretch" goal that might prove difficult to reach.  A hitter may establish a goal of hitting 20 home runs.  But if he has reached that number by September 1, there should be a stretch goal of maybe 25 homers.

In 2015, the Cubs goal should be to obtain a wild card spot with a stretch goal of winning the division.  In 2016 those goals will be to win the division and if things go their way, the World Series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 21, 2015, 08:57:50 am
Well said, Bennett.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 21, 2015, 01:18:08 pm
Speaking for myself, I'm not trying to "temper expectations" of anyone. But if the only thing being a fan is about is playing for the World Series, it's a mystery to me why any of us have followed the Cubs so closely and faithfully for decades, most years of which it was clear that the team had virtually no chance to getting there.  I enjoy the game itself, I enjoy rooting for favorite players and I especially enjoy watching the team perform well, even in years they don't get to the World Series.

In any event, I'm sorry that you don't care for how others approach the season.  I had not realized there was one and only one approach to being a proper fan.   ;)

Aside from some Cubs fans, I wonder how many teams have fans who look at winning in post-season as iceing on the cake--and emphasize about a nice regular season and how much they enjoyed rooting for their favorite players. This says something about rooting for a loser for decades, I guess. Can anyone imagine a Cardinals fan EVER saying what Ron just said when their club is odds-on favorite to be in post-season?

Wake Up! Your lovable losers are in the dust bin. You don't have to think like a loser anymore. Be Here Now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 21, 2015, 01:24:09 pm
Management has taken a systematic approach to improving the Cub organization.  This has resulted in the development of a young ML roster that has shown it can compete at a high level.  But to my knowledge it would be unprecedented for such a young team to go deep in the playoffs.  That doesn't mean it can't happen, but does mean that it is sensible to keep one's expectations in check.  Reb, you're welcome to your opinion that this perspective is due to years of my being beaten down as a Cub fan.  I view it more as being objective about the current team.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 21, 2015, 01:50:20 pm
Management has taken a systematic approach to improving the Cub organization.  This has resulted in the development of a young ML roster that has shown it can compete at a high level.  But to my knowledge it would be unprecedented for such a young team to go deep in the playoffs.  That doesn't mean it can't happen, but does mean that it is sensible to keep one's expectations in check.  Reb, you're welcome to your opinion that this perspective is due to years of my being beaten down as a Cub fan.  I view it more as being objective about the current team.

Of course your perspective is due to years of Cubs not winning anything. It's human nature. That is something to overcome, not to pretend it isn't there.

Cubs fans, by and large, think differently than Cardinals fans. How can we not? We come into each season with baggage.

Cubs players? No, they don't. They couldn't care less about what happened years past. If they get that at all, it's from fans telling them how deceased grandma rooted for Cubs for 65 years, so please win for her.

We should think a bit like the players.

No, losing in the wild card or losing in division series or losing in NLCS is not a good outcome. Nobody here should be satisfied with that or view getting that far as iceing on the cake. We got to see our favorite players perform. It was nice. Yippee.

No, not good enough. Let us attempt to discard the mental baggage. It's hard to do but that era of Cubs baseball is dead and gone.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on August 21, 2015, 02:07:43 pm
I've been a Cubs fan since 1953. I've rooted for many Cubs teams that were all but mathematically eliminated by Labor Day. The postseason is a crapshoot (see 2014). My goal as a fan is to see the Cubs reach the postseason every year. Anything beyond that is gravy. Contending for six months is far more enjoyable to me than winning a one, five or seven-game series. Those series are stressful, and usually end in disappointment.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 21, 2015, 02:23:51 pm
Until recently I didnt realize how old a lot of you guys are.

No wonder you all give me a hard time.

Im the youngest one here.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on August 21, 2015, 02:26:22 pm
"Respect your elders."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 21, 2015, 02:51:49 pm
I've always wondered where I fall on the JR, Dusty age scale. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 21, 2015, 03:32:53 pm
I think Im older than JR.

Im 33.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 21, 2015, 03:37:48 pm
You are 23 years older then.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 21, 2015, 03:53:08 pm
Aside from some Cubs fans, I wonder how many teams have fans who look at winning in post-season as iceing on the cake--and emphasize about a nice regular season and how much they enjoyed rooting for their favorite players. This says something about rooting for a loser for decades, I guess. Can anyone imagine a Cardinals fan EVER saying what Ron just said when their club is odds-on favorite to be in post-season?

Wake Up! Your lovable losers are in the dust bin. You don't have to think like a loser anymore. Be Here Now.

You seem to be suggesting I'm saying something I'm not. I'd rather you didn't do that.

What I actually said was "I enjoy the game itself, I enjoy rooting for favorite players and I especially enjoy watching the team perform well, even in years they don't get to the World Series."

I never said I would not be disappointed if the Cubs don't make the playoffs this season, nor did I say that I am not hoping for them to get into the playoffs and prosper within them. I never used the term "icing on the cake" and as it happens, I don't like losing and have never embraced the term "lovable losers" when applied to the Cubs (or anything else, for that matter).   I simply said that if they fail to get to the World Series, or even fail to get into the playoffs, that it will not prevent me from enjoying this very fun and promising (for me anyway) season. 

Since I've objected to your characterization of what I said, I won't try to characterize your position.  I'll simply ask whether you are saying that you cannot enjoy or appreciate this season unless the Cubs ... what ... get into the playoffs, get to the World Series ... or what? 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 21, 2015, 04:00:55 pm
Wonderful that you enjoy the game itself, enjoy rooting for your favorite players, and always enjoy watching the team peform well.

If that is all you had to say about the previous posts on the topic at issue, thanks for the contribution.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 21, 2015, 04:28:55 pm
As for me, I don't find it necessary or elucidating to point out that I enjoy baseball and always like to see Cubs do well.

Perhaps if the board hosts would like to add a topic of Obvious Things Worth Saying, we can weigh in on evils of nuclear proliferation or that driving drunk is bad.

But, for Ron, let us all say we can "enjoy and appreciate" the Cubs 2015 season.

Glad we settled that controversy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on August 21, 2015, 05:01:03 pm
I think it's also obvious that we all want the Cubs to win the World Series.  What I wouldn't give to have it happen before my father dies.  Of course I want it.

These are the Cubs, however.  They're young, and while they're flawed, no one expected them to be this good this soon.  Most people felt the window opens in 2016.  So what are you asking me?  Are you asking me to believe that this is the team that's going to do it?  Yes, I want them to do it, but am I supposed to *believe* that they'll do it?  Because after 40 years of Cubfandom, that's a tough ask.  The last time I let myself believe was about the 5th inning of game 6 in 2003.

Want vs believe.  Want leads to disappointment when it doesn't happen.  Believe leads to soul-crushing depression (when it doesn't happen).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: OkieCubsFan on August 21, 2015, 05:09:05 pm
You're not the youngest, Dusty.  I'm 32.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 21, 2015, 05:19:15 pm
I'm 38 for a few more months. Does that make me young or old?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 21, 2015, 05:21:02 pm
I forgot about you Okie.

I knew we were close.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 21, 2015, 05:26:26 pm
As for me, I don't find it necessary or elucidating to point out that I enjoy baseball and always like to see Cubs do well.

Perhaps if the board hosts would like to add a topic of Obvious Things Worth Saying, we can weigh in on evils of nuclear proliferation or that driving drunk is bad.

But, for Ron, let us all say we can "enjoy and appreciate" the Cubs 2015 season.

Glad we settled that controversy.


Fair enough.  And wanting the Cubs to win, make the playoffs and the World Series can be one as well.   ;)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 21, 2015, 05:28:48 pm
Just try to forget about the Cubs history. Yes, easier said than done. The baggage is overwhelming. We all carry it. But, it's not healthy. Fans of most other clubs don't carry it in same way.

Don't temper expectations based on the history. That's all. We can compare Club X to Club Y on the merits.  But, the game is unpredictable and what happened in some past season is totally irrelevant to what will happen on field in 2015.  Ask the Cubs players about that.

I, for one, appreciate that some posters acknowledge that they kind of brace themselves for the worst. 29 teams won't win WS in 2015, so odds are with anybody expecting something less. But, what will happen has zero to do with Cubs history. We know that but there's the baggage.

The Cubs history is only relevant when Cubs win it all. Then, it will be especially sweet for us all.  We will be rewarded in a special way. In the meantime, it's one game at a time and no point to temper expectations based on something irrelevant to now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 21, 2015, 06:15:23 pm
Totally agree about not tempering expectations based on history.  Different team, different front office, different ownership. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 21, 2015, 06:42:08 pm
2-run homer for Marlon Byrd in his first at-bat with the Giants. They are indeed the Cardinals of the west.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on August 21, 2015, 08:28:32 pm
We should think a bit like the players.

Why?

Will it change the outcome of the games?

Will it allow YOU to enjoy the games or the season more if you think others here are thinking the same way you do?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on August 21, 2015, 08:44:14 pm
Don't temper expectations based on the history. That's all. We can compare Club X to Club Y on the merits.  But, the game is unpredictable and what happened in some past season is totally irrelevant to what will happen on field in 2015.  Ask the Cubs players about that.

Another thing which is irrelevant to the outcome on the field in 2015 is whether Cub fans do or do not temper expectations based on history, or have any expectations at all... or are absolutely rabidly committed to the team and live or die with the outcome.

NONE of that is relevant to the outcome on the field.

I, for one, appreciate that some posters acknowledge that they kind of brace themselves for the worst. 29 teams won't win WS in 2015, so odds are with anybody expecting something less.

It is not "brac(ing)... for the worst" to enjoy the season for what it is, or to understand and accept the fact that it is highly unlikely the 2015 team will go far in the post-season, or even to believe that the Cubs in the immediate future are likely to be a good deal better than now, or to recognize that failing to win the WS this year is a long, long way from the worst thing that can happen.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 21, 2015, 08:46:38 pm
Byrd 3-4, 2B, HR
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 21, 2015, 09:17:05 pm
Bumgarner with his 5th homer of year tonight.

Soler has six.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on August 21, 2015, 09:24:34 pm
How long has Soler been in the league?  Patience.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 21, 2015, 09:25:14 pm
Mike Fiers is no hitting the Dodgers through 8 innings.  He's at 120 pitches.  The game is on MLB Network.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 21, 2015, 09:39:47 pm
Marisnick catches a fly ball to the warning track for the first out of the 9th.  Fiers was noticeably excited--he wants the no hitter, and he's not afraid to show it like most pitchers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 21, 2015, 09:40:26 pm
Utley flies out, 2 outs.  129 pitches for Fiers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 21, 2015, 09:41:41 pm
Two guys shown filming the (hopefully) last out on their iPhones.  One is filming correctly, the other filming vertically.  Why do people still film vertically?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 21, 2015, 09:42:48 pm
Houston crowd is loving this. 

2-2 count on Turner.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 21, 2015, 09:44:16 pm
Fiers Ks Turner, no hitter!  Pitch #134.  Fiers really enjoyed that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 21, 2015, 09:55:44 pm
On MLB Network, Pleasac had the same reaction I did--the best part of this no hitter was Fiers' excitement in the late innings.  On the post-game interview, Fiers admitted he knew he had a no hitter going the whole time.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 21, 2015, 10:41:12 pm
How long has Soler been in the league?  Patience.

Actually, the post was mostly about Bumgarner. Mentioned Soler only to highlight how terrific is Bumgarner's HR total (so far).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 22, 2015, 12:10:20 am
Carlos Villanueva's pixie dust seems to be wearing off. He's given up 2 run homers to Brett Wallace and Matt Kemp in the 8th in Sand Diego.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on August 22, 2015, 07:33:25 am
The guy they call "MadBum" out here is really quite an athlete...Giants have drafted pitchers SO incredibly well over the past 10+ years (e.g. Lincicome R1, Cain R2, Bumgarner R1).

Now that we have a bunch of guys who can mash, I'll hope there are stud pitchers available to us when we draft and we can nab a couple of them, too.

I'll also hope a some of our young guys (e.g. Johnson, Underwood, Steele) can continue to improve and stay healthy.  Top FA pitching is almost ridiculously expensive (and risky).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: forrest city joe on August 22, 2015, 11:39:23 am
Can somebody explain how the Houston Astros went from being the worst team last year to one of the best this year?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on August 22, 2015, 11:59:07 am
Can somebody explain how the Houston Astros went from being the worst team last year to one of the best this year?

They're in a division with no Cardinals, Pirates, Cubs or Royals?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 22, 2015, 03:16:00 pm
They also had a halfway decent farm system in place
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 22, 2015, 10:17:06 pm
Cards melting down against the Padres.

The Cards have runners on 1 & 3 in the 7th with no outs and the next three hitters K. Bottom of the seventh Martinez gives up a single. Jankowski bunted a hit and a sac bunt moved runners to second and third. Mannes comes in and gives up 5 runs so far.

Edit:  Padres end up scoring 7. My favorite play was the ball that hit the security guard, who was ruled in play that let Kemp score from first.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 22, 2015, 11:00:43 pm
That's the Cardinals' first losing streak in more than three weeks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 22, 2015, 11:08:46 pm
It happened before I started watching, but 1/3 K's was Martinez.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 22, 2015, 11:52:04 pm
So the Cardinals now lead the Pirates by 3.5 games and the Cubs by 6.5 games.  A few weeks ago, it looked like the division race was pretty much over...but with so many games left between the three teams, it's starting to become an interesting race again.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 23, 2015, 03:03:37 pm
For BR.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mR3eK5gCChM
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 23, 2015, 04:33:31 pm
Kershaw may get the CY again with 13 or so wins if this continues. He's had one shaky start since the break against Pittsburgh. These are his numbers over the other six starts.


48 IP, 23 H, 3 BB, 57 K

0.38 ERA, 0.54 WHIP
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 23, 2015, 06:09:43 pm
Josh Donaldson already has 100 RBIs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 23, 2015, 08:15:58 pm
The Dodgers have benched Joc Pederson who is hitting .122 this month. He does have a .413 OBP in August due to 20 walks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BullingersEars on August 23, 2015, 08:49:48 pm
Wouldn't prefer to face a lefty if we make it to that one game playoff.  Bumgarner/Liriano seems to be bad news for Schwarber, Montero, Coughlan.  Maybe a slight bump to Fowler.

Do we hope the Pirates catch the Cards if we can't?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 23, 2015, 09:07:10 pm
I'd like to see the Pirates overtake the Cardinals.  I think Cole is the second best starter in the NL Central, only behind Arrieta.  And the Pirates are a better hitting team than the Cardinals.  So I'll take my chances against the weaker hitting team with a non-Cole starter.

Plus, it would be pretty satisfying to send the Cardinals home after one playoff game.  Beating the Pirates wouldn't be nearly as fun.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 23, 2015, 09:34:46 pm
Would be plenty fun either way.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 23, 2015, 10:42:52 pm
Pirates beat the Giants.  Cubs lead over the Giants (6 games) is now almost as big as the Cardinals lead over the Cubs (6.5 games).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 24, 2015, 03:41:25 am
Bad Clubs Tidbits

The six worst records in MLB are National League clubs.

Rockies have tied Marlins and Phillies for worst record. 

Reds have lost nine straight and are now only two games better than Rockies, Marlins, and Phillies.

Rockies, Marlins, and Phillies are each 22 games behind the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 24, 2015, 11:30:05 am
I think I saw a tweet where 7 teams are with in 3 games of the #1 pick.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 24, 2015, 09:35:41 pm
Welington Castillo just homered to give the Diamondbacks a 1-0 lead over the Cardinals. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 24, 2015, 09:38:21 pm
Pirates now on pace for 99 wins, Cardinals for 103.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 24, 2015, 10:03:46 pm
Welington Castillo just homered to give the Diamondbacks a 1-0 lead over the Cardinals. 

ITYS
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 24, 2015, 10:11:13 pm
deGrom gave up 7 runs in 2+ innings and the Mets respond by scoring 16 runs on the Phillies.  If they have an offense to go with their pitching they will be scary.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 24, 2015, 10:39:26 pm
D'Backs load the bases for Goldschmidt, full count, and he...hits into a DP.

It truly is amazing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 24, 2015, 10:40:31 pm
Lance Lynn loads the bases in back to back innings and gets double plays to get out of it both times with a double play.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 24, 2015, 10:48:00 pm
And then of course a walk, single, and error, and the Cardinals are in business.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 24, 2015, 10:49:36 pm
And they lead.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 24, 2015, 11:02:47 pm
Aaron Hill with a game tying double for the Diamondbacks with 2 outs, then Owings tries to bunt for some stupid reason and pops it up on the first pitch.  Lynn looked uncomfortable and was in trouble, and Owings tried to bunt.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 24, 2015, 11:03:25 pm
Cards turn another double play, but this time no body was out. Lynn then walked Jake Lamb and Aaron Hill doubled him home to time the game. The Cardinal announcers blow, bit I refuse to listen to Brenley.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 24, 2015, 11:09:50 pm
Cardinals set up again to take the lead after the immortal Greg Garcia goes from 1st to 3rd on a sac bunt.

You may remember Garcia's homer off Arrieta this year. It's still his only homer in more than 415 at-bats this season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 24, 2015, 11:11:11 pm
Wasn't Matt Carpenter having a down year not too long ago?  But he hit his 19th homer earlier tonight?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 24, 2015, 11:15:43 pm
Carpenter had one awful stretch that lasted about 6 weeks. Otherwise, he's been an MVP candidate.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 24, 2015, 11:19:29 pm
And they lead again, this time behind Tommy Pham.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 24, 2015, 11:26:35 pm
Cardinals just keep winning.  They'll win 100 games this year.  On paper, probably the most mediocre team ever to do that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 24, 2015, 11:29:04 pm
D'Backs fail to take advantage of umpteen oppos, Cardinals take plenty of advantage of just one.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 24, 2015, 11:44:04 pm
Carpenter had one awful stretch that lasted about 6 weeks. Otherwise, he's been an MVP candidate.

Bryant was had a better wRC+ in every month of the season except for March/April. 

I'd rather play the Cards and there pixie dust in the wild card game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on August 25, 2015, 12:06:29 am
If carpenter is an mvp candidate, Bryant is God.

Garcia took Strop deep not Jake.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 25, 2015, 12:24:33 am
Bryant was had a better wRC+ in every month of the season except for March/April. 

I'd rather play the Cards and there pixie dust in the wild card game.

Carpenter was better in July too.  Bryant wRC+ of 74 in July.

In some ways, Cards lucky--but very unlucky with injuries.

Compared to Cards, Cubs have been [knocking on wood] very lucky with injuries. And, that is biggest luck factor of all.

Give Cards credit for overcoming injuries. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 25, 2015, 12:31:20 am
Mets with ridiculous total of 51 total bases in tonight's blowout of Phillies.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 25, 2015, 12:34:09 am
Cubs are 4-9 against St. Louis. That's the difference between being in 1st and being in 3rd.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 25, 2015, 12:47:27 am
In a one game playoff The Cards are less scary. The offense isn't as good as Pittsburg and they don't have a pitcher of Cole's ability either.  Throw in the fact that since it is a race now and Wacha and Martinez won't get the rest they need I'd much rather face them. Arrieta is 2-1 against the Cards this year. This isn't to say that the Cards are a bad team, I just like the 1 game match up better.

I thought Carpenter's 71 wRC+ lined up with Bryant's slump, bad part about typing on a phone. Bryant has been better than Carpenter this year.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 25, 2015, 12:54:40 am
..... and they don't have a pitcher of Cole's ability either.  Throw in the fact that since it is a race now and Wacha and Martinez won't get the rest they need I'd much rather face them.


You missing what Jaime Garcia's doing? Basically, everyone they throw out there doesn't give up runs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 25, 2015, 01:02:52 am
You do love pitchers that have unstainable ERA's. None of the Cards pitchers are close to Cole. I'd take Liriano over them as well.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 25, 2015, 01:18:53 am
You keep saying unsustainable this and that but the Cardinals keep sustaining pretty well.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 25, 2015, 08:55:44 am
The Cards may continue for the rest of the year to strand runners at the highest rate in the history of modern baseball by far for the rest of the year. That doesn't make it sustainable.

The Cardinals pitcher even if they do regress are still good.  They aren't going to become Dan Haren. None of the Cards pitchers are as good as Cole. That is why, in a one game playoff, I would rather face the Cards. 

Now if your talking about a 5 or 7 game series I would rather face the Pirates. Their rotation is top heavy with their 3/4 starters being subpar. I'd like the Cubs chances better their than the Cards who have 1-5 depth, but not an ace.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 25, 2015, 02:29:31 pm
Agree.  I definitely hope the Pirates overtake the Cards.  Assuming they don't both falter a bit and allow us to get the division, of course.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 25, 2015, 09:01:53 pm
Pirates finally lose. Cardinals blowing Arizona out in the 1st already.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 26, 2015, 04:38:31 am
A cautionary tale.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/brewers-show-that-a-lot-can-change-in-a-year-b99562873z1-322761261.html?ipad=y
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chiman on August 26, 2015, 08:09:41 am
Cody's season ended on Friday. His Grandmother passed away unexpectantly and he was sent home to be with family this week. He was at the total innings that they wanted him throwing for the year (80) so he wouldn't have thrown more than maybe 4-5 more innings to end the year. He had a very nice year 26.1 IP with a 1.71 ERA and a 0.84 WHIP with a BAA of .135 with 19 K and 10 BB, he also had a healthy 2.7 GO/AO.  He learned very quickly that a 2-3 pitch ground out was better than a 4-6 pitch SO in most situations. Early on he pitched relief and then he and his roommate rotated Starting the 2nd half of the year. I am pretty sure that he only gave up 1 extra base hit in the 12 hits allowed. He sat 91-92 and got it up to 94-95 several times per game. He had several teammates throwing in the high 90's but they couldn't consistently locate and had little movement and there numbers were not very good.  Cody said even in rookie ball they will hit 95+ if you miss in the middle of the plate.  He goes back out for instructs in the middle of September for 3 weeks and then he will be home through the first of March.
I have attached his stats at the bottom if anyone is interested.

Http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=milb&player_id=664847#/career/R/pitching/2015/ALL
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 26, 2015, 09:15:27 am
What a great start for him, congrats.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chiman on August 26, 2015, 09:24:07 am
Thanks CBJ... He has a long way to go but he is living his dream.  The Mariners have been very good to us and I have no qualms with him being a Mariner but my heart wants him to be a Cub. Mariners are very pleased with him and I don't look for them to move him but one never knows.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 26, 2015, 09:38:24 am
That's great, Chi! I know you and your family are very proud of him!

Sorry for your loss, too...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 26, 2015, 09:50:42 am
That's what free agency is for...

And sorry about your loss as well.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 26, 2015, 10:23:50 am
Thanks for the update, Chi.

Your comments about wanting him to be a Cub so badly make me wonder how much that ever actually factors into free agency decisions.  It seems like once it becomes "business," guys make their decisions based on money, and sometimes family, chance to win, weather/geography, playing for a certain manager, etc.  I don't ever remember hearing an athlete say, "I grew up as a die-hard ____ fan, and it's always been my dream to play for the ___."  In any sport. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: grrrrlacher on August 26, 2015, 10:43:25 am
That's awesome Chiman.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on August 26, 2015, 07:59:30 pm
Thanks for the update, Chiman...what a fabulous rookie season for your young son!!!

Have the Mariners given him instructions about throwing in his three weeks off?

Have they suggested how much time they will want him NOT throwing between this season and next season?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Pistol on August 26, 2015, 08:24:05 pm
Verlander with a no no thru 7.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Pistol on August 26, 2015, 08:37:33 pm
Verlander through 8.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chiman on August 26, 2015, 08:45:04 pm
Thanks everyone for the condolences!

Mariners want him to run and throw a couple long tosses and pens every week leading up to instructs. He will take off 8-12 weeks of throwing after instructs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 26, 2015, 08:54:38 pm
Iannetta leads off the 9th against Verlander with a double that looked like it hit the line in LF.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 26, 2015, 08:57:55 pm
One hitter for Verlander.  The one hit kicked up chalk--if it had been six inches to the left, he could've gotten the no hitter.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 27, 2015, 09:11:17 pm
Pirates win.

Cardinals lead early. Molina rests so .177 Tony Cruz hits his first HR of the year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 27, 2015, 11:42:53 pm
Our old friend Wellington Castillo just K'd with 1 out and the bases loaded in the 8th.  3 more unsustainable runners about to be stranded, unless Lamb can come through.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 27, 2015, 11:47:08 pm
Who grounds out to first. The Cards just need to pitch with RISP, it gets their competitive juices flowing.

DBacks announcer just said the DBacks are 1/8 with the bases loaded this series and have grounded into 9 DP's.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on August 27, 2015, 11:51:23 pm
Sigh.  Of course they are.  I don't think a single MLB game today has gone the way I wanted it to.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 27, 2015, 11:56:35 pm
Cards out scored the DBacks 22-8 in this series and have 2 more hits than the DBacks in the series.

Rosenthal will miss the Giants series due to the birth of his child.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 28, 2015, 12:02:40 am
Rosenthal walks the lead off batter and Heyward makes a running catch in the corner for the first out. It would have been a double against the Cubs. K's the next batter.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 28, 2015, 12:06:41 am
Rosenthal gives up a single to Inciarte and K's Pollack for the save.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 28, 2015, 10:32:47 am
Jack Zduriencik has been fired by the Mariners.

I wonder if Iwakuma has passed through waivers, and if the interim GM would be more willing to deal him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 28, 2015, 09:23:00 pm
Pirates score two in the 8th to break a tie and win again.

Only 3 times in the past 46 years have two teams in the same division won 100 games. Decent chance the Cubs will be behind two teams that make it a 4th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on August 28, 2015, 10:22:11 pm

Great news out of LA:




(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNi1O47U8AAl-YQ.jpg)

Vin Scully to return for 67th season

By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com | 10:42 PM ET

LOS ANGELES -- The Dodgers have a personnel decision greeted with unanimous support on Friday, as Vin Scully will return for a 67th season as the club's announcer.

"I talked it over with my wife, Sandi, and my family and we've decided to do it again in 2016," Scully said in a release. "There's no place like home ... and we look forward to being a part of it with all of our friends." 

The announcement was made on the Dodgers videoboard by Jimmy Kimmel, with the aid of cue cards, during the Dodgers-Cubs game at Dodger Stadium after the top of the second inning.

read more:  http://m.mlb.com/news/article/146013656/vin-scully-to-return-to-dodgers-booth-in-2016 (http://m.mlb.com/news/article/146013656/vin-scully-to-return-to-dodgers-booth-in-2016)

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 29, 2015, 02:49:22 am
It'd be even better if he announced a return for his 68th, 69th, and 70th seasons.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 29, 2015, 10:47:15 am
I just read through Jeff Zimmerman's fangraphs chat. Barry Bonds has 415 pitchers he went hitless against. He has a .331 OBP against those pitchers. Steroids helped, but that is an amazing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 29, 2015, 06:06:04 pm
Cardinals trouncing the Giants behind new star Steven Piscotty's 4 hits.

The Giants have scored 1 earned run in two games after scoring 17 in the Cubs series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on August 29, 2015, 06:17:09 pm
Piscotty was a high draft pick and a well-regarded prospect, whose skill set is usually undervalued by the traditional scouting community. Not sure why it's surprising that he's having some success.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 29, 2015, 06:47:35 pm
Luckily for the Giants unearned runs count.

The Giants have had 30 runners in 2 games, the Cards aren't exactly shutting them down.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 29, 2015, 06:53:39 pm
Addison Reed has been traded to the Mets. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 29, 2015, 07:05:04 pm
Jeff Samardzija has given up 4 runs already tonight, and he's not even through the third inning.  If he still gets a QO, he's at the point where he might have to take a pretty small contract.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on August 29, 2015, 07:41:27 pm
Piscotty was a high draft pick and a well-regarded prospect, whose skill set is usually undervalued by the traditional scouting community. Not sure why it's surprising that he's having some success.


.731 OPS as a 23-yo in the PCL last year. Up to .841 this year. Playing only due to injuries to Grichuk and Holliday. Leads the Cardinals in nearly every offensive category over the past two weeks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 29, 2015, 08:55:20 pm
A fan fell from the upper deck at Turner Field tonight.  He was apparently leaning over the railing and yelling at ARod.  Police say he is in grave condition.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Pistol on August 29, 2015, 10:52:46 pm
The fan died from the Turner Field incident
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on August 30, 2015, 12:05:25 am
That's the second time something like that has happened at Turner Field, right?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 30, 2015, 12:10:47 am
It's actually the third time.

Two years ago, a guy fell from the upper deck to the player's parking lot.  It was eventually ruled a suicide (the rails in that part of Turner Field are high enough that it really takes some effort to climb over).

Several years ago (I think I read earlier it was in 2008), someone fell off a stairwell from the upper deck level down to the concourse level.  I think that happened after a game was over and people were leaving the ballpark. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 30, 2015, 10:58:53 am
Buster Onley had  column mentioned that Harvey only has 20 IP before he hits his inning limit for the year. That lead me too look at the rest of starters.  The first number is their previous high total, the next is max innings with a 20% boost and the number of innings left.


Syndergaard 133, 160, 15.2
deGrom.       178.2, 214, 51

If your the Mets do you protect your young pitchers, 2 of which have already had TJS or let them blow past the innings limits.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on August 30, 2015, 11:16:24 am
They'll try to win.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on August 31, 2015, 12:36:40 am
Nats now only 2 1/2 games behind Giants and 8 games behind Cubs.

Have been thinking mostly about Nats catching Mets but, if Mets continue to play well and hold off Nats, think Nats possibly could be a wild card threat to Cubs.

Span out for season but most of other key Nats guys back and Nats very capable of getting very hot. So, think Cubs need to play well for duration.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 31, 2015, 07:53:57 am
The Indians are going to name Mark Shapiro president. The Indians are letting him go without compensation, which seems odd.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on August 31, 2015, 09:34:48 am
The Indians are going to name Mark Shapiro president. The Indians are letting him go without compensation, which seems odd.

This is very confusing indeed. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on August 31, 2015, 09:43:03 am
I guess I should proof read.  He's going to the Blue Jays from the Indians.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on August 31, 2015, 06:25:57 pm
Kiermaier just ABSOLUTELY robbed Machado of a HR...you will be seeing this play quite a bit tonight...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on August 31, 2015, 06:45:59 pm
Kiermaier just ABSOLUTELY robbed Machado of a HR...you will be seeing this play quite a bit tonight...
I saw that play.  Wasn't the white line his glove was above just part of the ad on the wall?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 31, 2015, 07:36:08 pm
Braves pull Jonny Gomes in the 6th inning of a 1-0 game.  He has been mentioned in trade rumors, and it seems likely that he's been traded.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on August 31, 2015, 07:41:49 pm
Yep, Gomes to the Royals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on August 31, 2015, 07:49:12 pm
For real?   They've got Gordon coming off the dl
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 01, 2015, 12:55:27 am
Giants/Dodgers tied into extras. Dodgers gave up the lead in the 8th, then had the winning run at 3rd with one out in the 9th and couldn't score.

Marlon Byrd has 3 RBI giving him 17 in 10 games as a Giant.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 01, 2015, 02:41:24 am
Dodgers win in 14.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 01, 2015, 03:26:29 pm
Marc Topkin ‏@TBTimes_Rays 
#Rays DFA Hak-Ju Lee
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 01, 2015, 05:06:22 pm
Sick.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/kansas-city-royals/article33222444.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 01, 2015, 05:06:48 pm
I had a Rays scout tell me one time that Hak Ju Lee was a SOB.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 01, 2015, 05:07:46 pm
That explains it. There's no crying in baseball.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 01, 2015, 05:35:21 pm
Tony Zych was called up by the Mariners. He went from striking nobody out with the Cubs to striking out 10+/9 in AAA.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 01, 2015, 08:06:22 pm
Edwin Jackson is likely starting for the Braves tomorrow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 01, 2015, 08:28:06 pm
Tony Zych has now replaced Dutch Zwilling as the last name in the alphabetical list of major league players.

Also, the Mariners can claim having both the alpha and the omega...Aardsma and Zych...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 01, 2015, 09:04:11 pm
Very cool.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 01, 2015, 10:16:26 pm
Not that it matters now, but the Brewers took it to the Pirates and Cole tonight.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 01, 2015, 10:19:05 pm
Dodgers lead the Giants 1-0.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on September 01, 2015, 10:19:37 pm
Tony Zych has now replaced Dutch Zwilling as the last name in the alphabetical list of major league players.

Also, the Mariners can claim having both the alpha and the omega...Aardsma and Zych...

And so can the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 01, 2015, 10:20:17 pm
Cardinals rally from 4-0 and 5-3 down on 6 walks, a hit batter, and a throwing error by the pitcher.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 01, 2015, 10:45:44 pm
The Nationals are just awful.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 01, 2015, 10:55:47 pm
Nats with 8 walks allowed, 2 HBP, and 2 botched plays at 3B on sacrifices. Brutal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 01, 2015, 10:58:24 pm
Logically, I know the idea that the Cardinals are cheating is ridiculous.  John Baker tweeted about it a few days ago, and Curt mentioned it here a day later.  But it's ludicrous that a MLB team could aggressively cheat undetected.

That said, how is this Cardinals team doing it?  On paper, they're not anything special.  I mean, compared to the last 10 years of Cardinals teams, they'd probably rank somewhere around 7th or 8th in pure talent.  I can't believe a roster with no real stars, holes at 1B and CF, a bad manager, and a ton of injuries is going to win somewhere around 105 games.  I understand why people would think they're engaging in some kind of shenanigans.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 01, 2015, 11:01:48 pm
Of course, br, the Cardinals, the sneaky bastards, could be implying that they're cheating just to play mind games with us and other teams.  Bastards.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 01, 2015, 11:15:38 pm
Cards have allowed only 392 runs. 2nd fewest NL runs allowed is 73 more runs. NL average is 544. Cubs with pretty good pitching have allowed 511. They just limit scoring against them really well.

Cards only two wins better than their Pythag.

Given all their key injuries, they (and Nats) have probably been most unlucky team in NL.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 01, 2015, 11:20:46 pm
Pederson homers. 2-0 LA behind Grienke.

Arrieta will have to have another month like August to have a shot at the CY.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 01, 2015, 11:24:14 pm
Or an injury could give Arrieta an opening.

Ken Gurnick ‏@kengurnick 
Greinke leaving dugout with trainer Stan Conte heading for clubhouse. Mattingly talking to plate umpire.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 01, 2015, 11:32:06 pm
Arrieta would still have to dominate though. Thankfully, Kershaw doesn't have the wins.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 01, 2015, 11:38:48 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/638915075550670849
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 02, 2015, 12:04:31 am
Dodgers hold on again.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 02, 2015, 01:43:18 pm
Straight steal of home yesterday.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/146870546/elvis-andrus-steal-of-home-surprises-pitcher
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on September 02, 2015, 11:25:57 pm
Kershaw just batted for himself in the bottom of the 8th. Dodgers up two to one heading to the 9th
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on September 02, 2015, 11:28:37 pm
Kershaw at 107 pictures. Facing the top of the order. Come on, Dodgers
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on September 02, 2015, 11:34:27 pm
Duffy singles with 2 outs to bring up Posey as the go ahead run
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on September 02, 2015, 11:38:11 pm
127th pitch is a Posey single. Kershaw argues his way to one more hitter.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on September 02, 2015, 11:41:21 pm
Byrd strikes out to end it! 6.5 game lead. Giants have lost 5 straight.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 02, 2015, 11:42:31 pm
Any team ever had 1-2 in Cy Young voting?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 02, 2015, 11:50:59 pm
35 swings-and-misses for Kershaw tonight. Wow. As point of comparison, Arrieta had 22 swings-and-misses in his no-no. 15 Ks for Kershaw. 132 pitch count. What a pitcher.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 03, 2015, 12:04:54 am
Kershaw's first pitch was a strike to 30 of the 33 hitters he faced.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 03, 2015, 12:42:41 am
So nothing's lost.

If we werent slumping we very well could have an 8 or 9 game lead but 6.5 in September feels awful good.

You cant script October.

Just get in and see what happens.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on September 03, 2015, 10:00:00 am
They let him throw 132 pitches -- hopefully he's tired out by the playoffs!

Some of our old pals on the Hanshin Tigers have good news to report today: Matt Murton picked up his 1000th hit (in Japan; I don't think it included his ML totals), and Kosuke Fukudome hit his 19th homer of the year to lead the Tigers to a big win over the Hiroshima Carp.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 03, 2015, 10:04:08 am
They let him throw 132 pitches -- hopefully he's tired out by the playoffs!

Some of our old pals on the Hanshin Tigers have good news to report today: Matt Murton picked up his 1000th hit (in Japan; I don't think it included his ML totals), and Kosuke Fukudome hit his 19th homer of the year to lead the Tigers to a big win over the Hiroshima Carp.
Was there any attention paid to September 2 being the 70th anniversary of the end of WWII?  It got a fair amount of notice here.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on September 03, 2015, 11:12:28 am
So nothing's lost.

If we werent slumping we very well could have an 8 or 9 game lead but 6.5 in September feels awful good.

You cant script October.

Just get in and see what happens.

Bingo, Dusty. You are a paragon of sanity in the midst of so much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 03, 2015, 11:25:49 am
Was there any attention paid to September 2 being the 70th anniversary of the end of WWII?  It got a fair amount of notice here.

This is a baseball forum.

No one cares.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: mO on September 03, 2015, 11:31:32 am
Spoke too soon tico...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 03, 2015, 12:06:44 pm
How's that?

This aint the place for it.

You dont see me posting about how I'd rather see Hitler voted in than Hilary Clinton do you?

Why?

Because this is a baseball forum.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 03, 2015, 12:27:12 pm
Adolf is running again?  That Doofus.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on September 03, 2015, 01:12:50 pm
Egg all over my face
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 03, 2015, 01:23:27 pm
Egg all over my face
you didn't know Adolf was running either?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 03, 2015, 01:32:40 pm
Im just gonna let it go.

The new and improved Dusty is learning to turn the other cheek even when you know you arent in the wrong.

I didnt say anything wrong in any way but Im still trying to be made out the fool.

This isnt the place to talk politics and you all know good and well I dont want Hitler to be the president.

I guess Im not allowed to be sarcastic.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 03, 2015, 01:38:59 pm
Dusty!  We're just having fun.  Don't be so thin skinned.   You're right.   This is a baseball board.   Doesn't mean we can't josh each other.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 03, 2015, 01:47:08 pm
All I am going to say is that Dusty also said "who cares" when I made a post questioning how the flag patch was sewn on the Phillies sleeves.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 03, 2015, 01:54:46 pm
Im not saying I didnt do it but I was just playing.

Im not horribly patriotic by any means but I also dont intend to be disrespectful either.

I truthfully dont care enough to even have an opinion about it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 03, 2015, 04:48:53 pm
The new and improved Dusty is learning to turn the other cheek even when you know you arent in the wrong.

The new and improved Dusty obviously is NOT learning how to properly use personal pronouns.....

I truthfully dont care enough to even have an opinion about it.

Care enough.... know enough.... same difference.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 03, 2015, 05:08:41 pm
Jes, isn't it remarkable how quickly this rebuilding has resulted in a team that's competitive and fun to follow?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 03, 2015, 05:41:27 pm
P2 pokes the bear with a stick.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 03, 2015, 06:12:09 pm
Kershaw's 35 swings-and-misses last night is the most by any MLB pitcher in last 10 years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 03, 2015, 06:47:13 pm
Jes, isn't it remarkable how quickly this rebuilding has resulted in a team that's competitive and fun to follow?

When I began urging a total tear down and rebuild (which was in the 2nd half of 2006), I felt the front office needed to let the manager and coaches at the major league level (and even the fans) know that for the first two to three years of the rebuild there would be no concern at all with the W/L record, and that all attention and effort should go into maximizing the likelihood of building a strong, sustained winner, a team which would be expected to make it to the playoffs as a strong contending team for several years in a row, a team where if things went reasonably well you could see the third year of the rebuild having an interesting team on the field, with a chance of winning games, and where the W/L record, and not just improvement, would begin to mean something.

I believe everyone here ridiculed what I suggested, some insisting that it would have been foolish to have traded someone like Lee when the Cubs had no one close to as good who could replace him (despite the fact that on a rebuild, you really don't worry much about that), or that a team like the Cubs should never write off a season and would always have to field at least remotely credible teams to sell tickets, or that in a city the size of Chicago fans should not and would not tolerate such an approach, or that good management could multi-task and could properly prioritize both winning now and winning in the future.

I preached it so long and so often, that some of the administrators of this site even began creating auto-replace commands for the entire forum so that any time I used one of the phrases I quite regularly did, the forum itself would delete the phrase I had written and replace it with something incredibly cute like, "Jes Beard is an idiot."  And as I continued pointing out to other posters what seemed incredibly obvious, some became so annoyed at not only being told they were foolish, but having the reasons their posts were foolish pointed out to them that they began blocking my posts -- they simply did not want to hear it anymore.

I had been posting since late in the 1998 season, and it was not until after I began urging the total rebuild that anyone began boasting of how they had put me on ignore (Curt may have actually DONE so before that, but he certainly had not posted about having done so).  I did not change as a person, and really the nature of my posts did not change, with the exception of me beginning late in 2006 to call for a complete rebuild, backing up the truck and trading anyone with current value to any team for someone with a reasonable prospect of having more future value to the Cubs than the player then on the Cubs would provide the Cubs in the future.

Then ownership gave Hendry brief access to an unlimited checkbook to BUY a team which would win right away in order to con some sucker into paying more for the Cubs than the team on the field was actually worth.  The "sucker" was the Ricketts family, and fortunately, when the big budget moves Hendry made after the 2006 season and over the next two years left the team in the inevitable budget/roster box they were bound to create and the performance collapsed, the "suckers" were bright enough to bring in a front office team of smart guys who since they arrived have essentially taken the course I had urged, without any real concern for the W/L record the first two years and only after that began taking steps to actually have the team win games.

As you might guess, I love the current front office.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BullingersEars on September 03, 2015, 08:44:02 pm
Giants look like they're in near meltdown mode...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 03, 2015, 08:50:02 pm
Good.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BullingersEars on September 03, 2015, 09:28:57 pm
Manager tossed back to back nights, shut down by Grienke and Kershaw.... Late flight to the thin air of Coors where they trot out Volgelsong and Heston. 

This is good.

Pirates down... Giants getting smoked.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 03, 2015, 09:34:41 pm
Jes, you were pretty much on the money about what the Cubs needed to do, and the wisdom of that approach should be apparent to all at this stage.  Hopefully, that will translate into the Cubs becoming a true championship caliber team before long.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on September 03, 2015, 09:38:09 pm
The Nationals may just end up being our biggest threat when all is said and done.  Hopefully the Mets beat them when they go head to head.  I'll be at the Nationals game Monday rooting hard for the Mets.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 03, 2015, 09:39:45 pm
The Giants rotation is really a problem.  Bumgarner is great, Leake is pretty good.  It's pretty ugly after that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 03, 2015, 09:46:21 pm
Kinda like the Cubs?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on September 03, 2015, 09:51:54 pm
Pirates have lost 4 in a row and are limping into St. Louis.  4 games back of them.  Too bad we're 4-6 in the last 10 or we would be right there.  Win some games this weekend and we could make those last 7 games against the Pirates even more interesting. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on September 03, 2015, 11:48:49 pm
Yeah, this stretch of a couple weeks is gonna be BIG!  It would be so cool to find a way to edge the Bucs...but I find myself now focused lots more on hanging on to the second WC...I can see both the Nats and the Giants getting hot and 6-7 game leads can dissipate VERY fast with one bad week! 

It would be fabulous if Lester/Cyrietta could pitch well and Cubs could win the next two games to assure the first series win in a while!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 04, 2015, 12:29:40 pm
So the Mets are going to blow past Harvey's innings limit for Dr. Andrews of 180 innings and Scott Boras seems none to pleased about it.  If he gets injured in the future I wonder if this would set up the Mets to get sued?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on September 04, 2015, 12:39:09 pm
where did you read that?

I had read they were going to have im miss one more start... and he wouldnt blow past it unless they got past first round of play-offs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 04, 2015, 12:50:42 pm
So the Mets are going to blow past Harvey's innings limit for Dr. Andrews of 180 innings and Scott Boras seems none to pleased about it.  If he gets injured in the future I wonder if this would set up the Mets to get sued?

One would think that Boras discussed this with Harvey before going public and got the okay. That alone is pretty interesting: the player implying through the agent that he should pitch less because of health concerns.

Ordinarily, I would doubt that an arbitrator or judge is going to get into business of determining appropriate pitcher usage. But, if the player himself makes an issue of his health and the club overules the player, his doctor, and his representatives, who knows. Wonder if Harvey is going to publicly take issue with Mets handling of him--during a pennant race and post-season. Doubt it. Won't make him a hero in NY if says he doesn't want to pitch.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 04, 2015, 12:53:38 pm
Limit is 180 IP and Harvey already is at 166 with 30 games to go. So, missing one start doesn't keep him from 180 before end of season.

Mets are not shutting him down, so he will blow past 180.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 04, 2015, 12:54:30 pm
He has 13 2/3 innings left until he reaches 180 innings with 29 games left to go.  Even if they go to a 6 man rotation and skip him once that would be 3 more starts, which likely would but him over unless he is going to throw 4 innings before the playoffs start.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on September 04, 2015, 01:15:15 pm
wow. io thought he was closer to 156. they might have to shut him down for a couple weeks... going to 210ish would be a mistake.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 04, 2015, 01:32:56 pm
I really have no idea how it would work for MLB, which is why I was asking.  As a general rule if an employee is given work restrictions by a docotor and the employer ignores those and they result in injury it will open them up for liability. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on September 04, 2015, 01:50:03 pm
He has 13 2/3 innings left until he reaches 180 innings with 29 games left to go.  Even if they go to a 6 man rotation and skip him once that would be 3 more starts, which likely would but him over unless he is going to throw 4 innings before the playoffs start.

So, with 3 starts, he'll hit his limit with 2 of them, and basically be one start beyond that limit.  Each playoff start would be an additional start beyond.  I could easily imagine them having such a comfortable lead on washington that they could easily rest him another time and skip his last start, too. 

I can't imagine the "180 innings" by Andrews is more than a guesstimate, though.  Why did he choose 180 versus 170 versus 160 versus 190?  180 is safe and no-problem, but 186 is going to wreck his arm?  Andrews has this pinned down to the nearest 3% precision?  I don't think so. 

The other thing is that if he has a subsequent injury, will we blame it on the extra six or 12 innings?  I suppose if in inning 183 his arm breaks like Dave Dravecky, or he has an obvious pop or tear like Kerry Wood or something, it will be easy to say "that extra 6 or 12 innings did him in."  But if next year August he has an injury, or in 2017 we notice that his velocity isn't quite what it used to be, will we then blame it on 3% overload in 2015? 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 04, 2015, 01:51:54 pm
I told you the Mets would go for it as I would bet most teams would.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 04, 2015, 01:56:15 pm
It worked out swell for the Nationals a couple of years ago
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 04, 2015, 02:09:12 pm
So, with 3 starts, he'll hit his limit with 2 of them, and basically be one start beyond that limit.  Each playoff start would be an additional start beyond.  I could easily imagine them having such a comfortable lead on washington that they could easily rest him another time and skip his last start, too. 

I can't imagine the "180 innings" by Andrews is more than a guesstimate, though.  Why did he choose 180 versus 170 versus 160 versus 190?  180 is safe and no-problem, but 186 is going to wreck his arm?  Andrews has this pinned down to the nearest 3% precision?  I don't think so. 

The other thing is that if he has a subsequent injury, will we blame it on the extra six or 12 innings?  I suppose if in inning 183 his arm breaks like Dave Dravecky, or he has an obvious pop or tear like Kerry Wood or something, it will be easy to say "that extra 6 or 12 innings did him in."  But if next year August he has an injury, or in 2017 we notice that his velocity isn't quite what it used to be, will we then blame it on 3% overload in 2015? 

I have no clue why Dr. Andrews picked 180 innings, but he's done most of the research on this so I don't think it is just pulling a number out of thin air.  The numbers I quoted would be with a six man roation.   If they go with a 5 man roation it would be 4-6 starts before the playoffs start.  Say 6 innings and 5 starts and he's at almost 200 innings before any starts in the playoffs.  They should have managed his starts better earlier in the year, just like the Nationals should have.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 04, 2015, 02:13:10 pm

......I can't imagine the "180 innings" by Andrews is more than a guesstimate, though.  Why did he choose 180 versus 170 versus 160 versus 190?  180 is safe and no-problem, but 186 is going to wreck his arm?  Andrews has this pinned down to the nearest 3% precision?  I don't think so.  The other thing is that if he has a subsequent injury, will we blame it on the extra six or 12 innings?....... 

Yeah, it's prophylactic---and not precisly treatment of a present "injury" but rather the best medical estimate. Kind of like medical advice to a non-athlete "to take it easy for awhile" with that. So, Mets can say "soft" limit and Boras can say best medical assessment. That's why difficult for an arbitrator or judge to decide. Boras is just trying to ensure that Mets are aware that he's watching.

What if Mets advance to a 6 or 7 game World Series? Probably 5 post-season high stress starts for Harvey if not shut down.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 04, 2015, 06:59:15 pm
Lemme guess, we're rooting against the Pirates tonight, just not for the Cardinals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on September 04, 2015, 07:22:33 pm
LOL, that's about right!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 07:29:13 pm
I'm still cheering for the Pirates...I just won't be that upset if they lose. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 04, 2015, 07:36:46 pm
I'm rooting for Skylab II
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on September 04, 2015, 07:51:50 pm
I'm rooting for a giant sinkhole to open up and swallow Busch.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 07:59:14 pm
Gonzalez and Arenado go back-to-back against the Giants in the first inning.  The Giants hit the Rockies at a really bad time because both those guys are ridiculously locked in right now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 04, 2015, 08:05:22 pm
I'm hoping that Skylab II leaving orbit and crashing to earth cause that sinkhole
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 04, 2015, 08:50:53 pm
The other thing is that if he has a subsequent injury, will we blame it on the extra six or 12 innings?  I suppose if in inning 183 his arm breaks like Dave Dravecky, or he has an obvious pop or tear like Kerry Wood or something, it will be easy to say "that extra 6 or 12 innings did him in."  But if next year August he has an injury, or in 2017 we notice that his velocity isn't quite what it used to be, will we then blame it on 3% overload in 2015?

So you are seriously asking if a bunch of sports fans are going to second-guess a decision by management?

Nah, sports fans would never do something like that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 09:11:38 pm
JA Happ is dominating the Cardinals tonight.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 09:29:51 pm
The Braves lost again tonight.  They may be in the worst stretch I can remember for any team. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 04, 2015, 09:32:08 pm
I saw a tweet that the Braves patagreon record since the break would be like .226 or something close to that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 09:52:14 pm
The Braves are 12-39 in their last 51 games (.235 winning percentage).

The Braves have lost 17 of their last 18 games.  Looking at MLB.com's standings, I think they've been outscored 137-46 in that time.  That's a -91 run differential in 18 games!  On average, they're being outscored by 5 runs every night.  I must have done that calculation wrong, right?

The Braves were always terrible this year.  They started 42-42 because they had unbelievable luck with RISP--even though they were at or near the bottom in hitting overall, they were around the top 5 in OPS with RISP for most of the first half.  When that caught up with them, it turned ugly. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 04, 2015, 09:55:54 pm
Braves asked Arodys Vizcaino to get 2-inning save, which he blew, but hit 102 on the gun, with a couple other 100 readings. Mostly worked 98-99, with a decent slider. Not sure that La Stella is going to match value that Braves figure to get with Vizcaino throwing like that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 10:05:07 pm
Pirates doing their best to blow a 5-0 lead in the 8th.  Piscotty double scores a run, runners at second and third with 2 outs for Heyward.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 04, 2015, 10:16:45 pm
Braves asked Arodys Vizcaino to get 2-inning save, which he blew, but hit 102 on the gun, with a couple other 100 readings. Mostly worked 98-99, with a decent slider. Not sure that La Stella is going to match value that Braves figure to get with Vizcaino throwing like that.

I wasn't a fan of the trade at the time, more because of the type of player that LaStella is, high walk and low power. The Cubs did it to decrease strike outs and I think he can be a decent bench guy. Vizcaino's average fastball velocity jumped 2 mph after using steroids from 95 to 97. His command/control is poor enough that he needs that extra velocity to be effective. It will be interesting to see if he can maintain the new velocity without getting caught again for steroids.

On another note Carlos Villanueva needs some more pixie dust. The Cards must have lost their supply. 9-1 now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 10:20:46 pm
It's a blowout in St. Louis now.  Go Pirates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 10:32:10 pm
Cardinals just won't die. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 04, 2015, 10:32:52 pm
2 infield hits help.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 04, 2015, 10:36:04 pm
Giants lose again.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 04, 2015, 10:39:29 pm
Nats, 7 1/2 behind Cubs, have now moved ahead of Giants, 8 games behind.

And Nats may be getting it together, finally. If Cubs stumble a bit, would worry about Nats.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on September 04, 2015, 10:59:02 pm
The Nats have a pretty easy schedule down the stretch other than the Mets.  Games against the Phillies, Braves, and Marlins.  The Giants seem to have fallen apart.  They are the 3 time World Champioms, but It doesn't look like this is going to be their year.

I assume the Nationals are going to seep the Braves at this point.  Then they start the 3 game set against the Mets while we play the Cardinals.  Hopefully the Marlins can win one more from the Mets so the NL East is in play for Washington in case they get really hot.
 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 04, 2015, 11:03:15 pm
Umpires at 2B have had a rough series in LA...Ted Barrett not only apparently DOES believe in the neighborhood play (unlike his crew partner last night), but he also apparently thinks Chase Utley has really long arms...because there is no way he could touch the bag with that slide...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 04, 2015, 11:08:02 pm
Nationals aren't a threat.  Giants aren't a threat.  The Cubs are more likely to overtake the Cardinals than lose their spot in the wild card game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 04, 2015, 11:09:55 pm
Not the best pic, but...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 04, 2015, 11:12:32 pm
Nationals aren't a threat.  Giants aren't a threat.  The Cubs are more likely to overtake the Cardinals than lose their spot in the wild card game.
Agreed
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 04, 2015, 11:27:31 pm
Hope you're right--and probably are--but think Nats are capable of getting very hot for sustained period. If Cubs play under .500, not a lock. A longshot for sure but September can be unpredictable, folks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 04, 2015, 11:32:06 pm
With 29-games remaining and the schedule the Nationals have compared to the Cubs they could pass them up.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 05, 2015, 12:09:24 am
If the Nats win 21/29 the Cubs would only need to win 14? games to make the wild card game. The Nats are much more likely to catch the Mets and that is a long shot.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 05, 2015, 12:13:00 am
The Cubs' magic number to clinch a spot in the wild card game is 22.  The Nationals' magic number to clinch that same spot is 37.  It takes a lot of extra breaks for the Nationals to overcome that difference.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 05, 2015, 12:55:39 am
If the Nats win 21/29 the Cubs would only need to win 14? games to make the wild card game. The Nats are much more likely to catch the Mets and that is a long shot.

Nats quite capable of doing that and Cubs could go 14-15 too. Yes, If Nats catch anybody, more likely the Mets. That would put Mets in wild card picture. Cubs currently 2 1/2 games ahead of Mets.

Look, everything looks really good now and probably stays good. But, I expect things to tighten up a bit---hoping not too much.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 05, 2015, 12:58:45 am
So the Nats magic number is just 3 games better than the Cubs magic number for winning the division.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 05, 2015, 02:10:10 am
Nationals aren't a threat.  Giants aren't a threat.  The Cubs are more likely to overtake the Cardinals than lose their spot in the wild card game.

Testify!!!!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 05, 2015, 05:26:58 am
Nationals aren't a threat.  Giants aren't a threat.  The Cubs are more likely to overtake the Cardinals than lose their spot in the wild card game.


They just became one with that curse statement.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 05, 2015, 05:28:04 am
Dave23, so was that the neighborhood play?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 05, 2015, 09:04:31 am
Yeah, I didn't grab a pic of that part of the play, but the SS was not near the bag when he took the throw...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 05, 2015, 04:21:38 pm
Matt Harvey apparently just told reporters that he always considered 180 IP to be his limit this year, and he won't answer questions about the playoffs.  Sounds like he's taking himself out of the playoffs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 05, 2015, 04:29:47 pm
This could get really interesting. Alderson spent the whole day saying there isn't a limit on Harvey, but he does admit there is a disagreement on it by the three doctors involved.  Rosenthal has tweeted that multiple teams say Dr. Andrews doesn't give hard innings limits. I'm glad this is happening to the Mets and not the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 05, 2015, 07:19:02 pm
The Harvey situation is just another reason why it's very, very unlikely that the Cubs lose their playoff spot.  If the Natgionals overtake the Cubs, they probably also overtake the Mets.  That means that the Mets would also have to finish really strong to make up the three games between them and the Cubs.  With the Harvey situation, the Mets are a weaker team on the field, and a distracted team off the field.  I just don't see any way both teams finish with a better record than the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 05, 2015, 07:29:24 pm
The Braves are down 6-0 again tonight.  They are pretty much as bad as Jake Arrieta is good right now. 

You can also see how checked out Fredi Gonzalez is.  In the 4th inning, there was a play where the Nationals could have been called for both running out of the baseline and interference.  Both calls were borderline at best, so the umpire probably got them right...but they were close enough to being illegal that a manager has to come out and argue.  Gonzalez didn't move from the bench as far as I could see. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 05, 2015, 07:44:03 pm
If you were wondering why the Red Sox put Hanley Ramirez on the 15-day DL today

http://m.redsox.mlb.com/news/article/147551786/red-sox-place-hanley-ramirez-on-disabled-list
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 06, 2015, 05:25:01 am
Bartolo Colon:


https://vine.co/v/eTVExlWInFA
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 06, 2015, 07:47:49 pm
http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2015/09/the-2015-st-louis-cardinals-best-pitching-in-mlb-history/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 06, 2015, 08:11:25 pm
Is anyone watching the Pirates/Cardinals game?  How was that play at third where Carpenter ran into Ramirez not called obstruction?  Ramirez clearly looked like he was breaking home after the ball went by him. 


I'm shocked the Pirates didn't even seem to argue the call.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 06, 2015, 09:17:33 pm
Aramis Ramirez just homered in what is likely his last career regular season AB in St. Louis.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on September 06, 2015, 09:45:34 pm
Honestly, even though it's probably better for the Pirates to lose, I'm all about the Buccos tonight!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: buff on September 07, 2015, 09:54:50 am
I will never root for those whiny ass cardinals. Never.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 07, 2015, 11:59:00 am
Exactly!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 07, 2015, 06:40:54 pm
“Well, they left in the seventh, so that was pretty brutal.” - Bryce Harper on today's 8-5 loss to the Mets.


Well, Bruce, the Cardinals fans left in the 3rd today so we beat you out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on September 07, 2015, 06:50:37 pm
I stayed the whole game and watched him strike out in the bottom of the 9th. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 07, 2015, 07:05:17 pm
lol
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 08, 2015, 08:04:34 am
A reminder that things can turn ugly very quickly for pitcher are dominating hitters. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/no-one-is-more-puzzled-by-max-scherzers-collapse-than-max-scherzer/2015/09/07/f37e2232-5570-11e5-8bb1-b488d231bba2_story.html

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on September 08, 2015, 08:50:49 am
Great read, Ron...thanks much.  It's almost unbelievable that there are human beings who can actually square up 98 (even if in the middle of the zone). 

The rest of us could only hear 98.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 08, 2015, 09:01:18 am

The rest of us could only hear 98.
  What?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 08, 2015, 09:59:32 am
Great read, Ron...thanks much.  It's almost unbelievable that there are human beings who can actually square up 98 (even if in the middle of the zone). 

The rest of us could only hear 98.
There are a number of variations on the old "it sounded like a strike" umpire call story.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 08, 2015, 11:18:18 am
The view from the other side of the fence:  http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/lynn-extra-rest-didn-t-help/article_e8ff58d9-ba52-574d-ac44-2e5b5dd53751.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 08, 2015, 02:20:34 pm
dan kiefer ‏@KieferDan  2h2 hours ago
@CubsDen The end of cluster luck? Cards' pitchers have allowed 21 H in 51 AB w/ RISP last 5 games. Previous 5 game: 9/44. Love regr to mean!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 02:35:27 pm
There has been a lot of speculation the last couple of days from people like Buster Olney and Jayson Stark that Matt Harvey will be traded this offseason.  I'd love to see the Cubs try to find a match for him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 08, 2015, 02:50:05 pm
Castro!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 08, 2015, 02:52:15 pm
Joey Votto since all-star break (217 PAs):

w/OBA  .539

401-581-730 slash line





Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 08, 2015, 06:05:24 pm
The Mariners catchers this year have a .466 OPS. They will likely end up being the worst bring group of catchers since the 60's which is as far as the baseball reference play index goes according to an article on Fangraphs. The 1968 Giants SS have the honor of the worst OPS for a position .438.

Just looked it up.

Hal Lanier 518 PA, .206/.222/.239 wRC+ 39

Don Mason 20 PA .158/.200/.158 wRC+ 11

Nate Oliver 78 PA .178/.189/.250 wRC+ 18
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 06:11:03 pm
The Cubs' return for Castillo looks bad, but at least they had a good alternative.  Not sure why the Mariners were so quick to trade him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 08:02:05 pm
Harvey gave up 7 ER tonight.  The reaction from the New York media should be fun to read tomorrow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 08, 2015, 08:04:37 pm
Well, that's one way to cut short your IP...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 08:06:49 pm
Garza not happy about being shut down:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/matt-garza-was-shutdown-by-the-brewers--and-he-s-not-happy-about-it-171247942.html

The Brewers told him he (and his 5.63 ERA) was going to the bullpen for the rest of the season.  He told them he wouldn't pitch out of the pen, so his season is over.  Glad the Cubs didn't figure out a way to extend him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 08, 2015, 08:21:43 pm
Socrates Brito up to big leagues today for DBacks. As he recently told Baseball America "remember there is nothing stable in human affairs, especially baseball; therefore avoid undue elation in prosperity, or undue depression in adversity." A wise man for a rookie.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 08:26:54 pm
The Nationals lead over the Mets was just cut from 7-1 to 7-6 in about 5 minutes. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on September 08, 2015, 08:39:06 pm
All we are, is dust in the wind, dude.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 08:41:50 pm
Is Bill & Ted 3 ever going to happen?  They've been talking about it for years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 09:07:07 pm
Mets now lead the Nationals on a Kirk Nieuwenhuis homer.

The Cubs chase of the Cardinals in the division is significantly more interesting than the wild card race now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 11:12:21 pm
Mark McGwire hit #62 against Trachsel 17 years ago tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NZPvgRF_Yg

Hard to believe that was 17 years ago.  I remember exactly where I was when it happened.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 09, 2015, 08:55:43 pm
Pirates up by a run on the Reds in the 9th. They've apparently turned JA Happ into Kershaw II.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 09, 2015, 09:16:28 pm
Pirates win.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 09, 2015, 11:05:25 pm
Mike Olt getting his opportunity with WSox.

Cubs did him a favor.

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/mike-olt-see-plenty-playing-time-white-sox
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 10, 2015, 03:36:50 am
Mike Olt is useless and will never be anything.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 10, 2015, 10:18:31 am
Larry Baer (CEO of the Giants) said this morning that he would never vote for the DL to extend to the NL.  He cites the usual reasons (makes the game more interesting from a strategic perspective, requires more athletic versatility on the part of pitchers).  I also think it makes the game a little more quirky rather than excessive specialization.  Good for him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 10, 2015, 10:26:43 am
He also has some pitchers, one in particular, who can hit the long ball.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 10, 2015, 11:42:53 am
Ruben Amaro is finally out in Philadelphia.  The interim GM is Scott Proefrock.

With MacPhail taking over as team president, I wonder if his old friend Jim Hendry has a shot at that GM job.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 10, 2015, 12:10:05 pm
Quote
Good for him.

I'm with you, P2.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 10, 2015, 11:09:25 pm
The Cards have allowed 7+ runs 16 times this year.  They have done it 5 of their last 7 games, it is almost like pitching well with RISP isn't a skill.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 10, 2015, 11:19:40 pm
The Cards have allowed 7+ runs 16 times this year.  They have done it 5 of their last 7 games, it is almost like pitching well with RISP isn't a skill.

Or perhaps it is like individual players have individual skills, but teams, collectively, really do not, or at least not in a manner which transfers from a pitcher who had been on the mound in the past to a different pitcher who is on the mound on a later date.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 11, 2015, 10:32:20 am
Reports are that Ausmus is out in Detroit at the end of the season, and Gardenhire is the favorite to replace him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 11, 2015, 10:45:03 am
I thought that Ausmus was supposed to be the next great manager and the Cubs made a huge mistake not hiring him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 11, 2015, 11:15:08 am
That was another deeg-ism, wasn't it?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on September 11, 2015, 01:08:54 pm
Reports are that Ausmus is out in Detroit at the end of the season, and Gardenhire is the favorite to replace him.


Reports?  One report that all the other 'reports' are using as their source.  The 'report' is a blog (Detroit Sports Rag) written by a student (Justin Spiro) who is attending law school in Chicago (John Marshall Law).  Not like the info is coming from a reliable source with proven MLB contacts.

Ausmus probably will be fired at the end of the season but Gardy as a 'sure thing' as the next Tigers' manager is pure speculation. You would expect Gardenhire to be high on the list of any team deciding on a new manager for 2016.  You think he'd have a better opportunity than to take over an aging Detroit club with a mediocre farm system.

 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 11, 2015, 02:00:21 pm
I'm sitting here working, with MLBN on as background noise...I didn't research the sources...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 11, 2015, 02:12:42 pm
I saw an earlier report from a national reporter that if Asmus got canned Rich Rodriguez might be an option for the Tigers as well.  He was a finalist last time and worked with Avila with the Marlins.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 11, 2015, 02:18:54 pm
Renteria.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 11, 2015, 02:21:15 pm
I already blocked him out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on September 11, 2015, 10:20:00 pm

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COpsZTjXAAAYS0F.jpg)

John Danks warmed up in a leprechaun suit because he lost a bet

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/john-danks-chicago-white-sox-leprechaun-suit (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/john-danks-chicago-white-sox-leprechaun-suit)

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 12:43:31 am
Cashner knocked around tonight by Giants.  His ERA is now 4.27, with opposition BA of .280. Doesn't make sense, given his stuff. Only regular NL starting pitchers averaging better velocity than Cashner are Cole, Harvey, deGrom, and C. Martinez. That's it.

Wonder if Padres will be ready to trade Cashner this off-season? He will be pending FA after 2016, so guessing trade cost won't be enormous. A rental guy for a pennant race. Looking at about $6 arb salary for 2016.  From my perspective, he is interesting guy out there to add to 2016 Cubs staff, to replace the Haren spot, because seems like a lot more there than he is showing this season. Perhaps Bosio can do something really good with him. Think his salary fits into budget.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 12, 2015, 08:13:51 am
I think Cashner is mainly a victim of the Padres' decision to punt defense this season.  He has a high BABIP (.327) and the second worst LOB% (65.5%) in MLB.  He's been the anti-Haren as far as luck goes.

That said, he's a #2/#3 quality starter who gets hurt a lot.  Health is still a hugely underrated factor in player value.  I'd rather spend a little more (in money or a trade) to get someone who is more likely to pitch a full season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on September 12, 2015, 11:09:07 am
Cheaters!

http://fox2now.com/2015/09/12/cardinals-c-stanley-suspended-for-80-games-by-mlb/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on September 12, 2015, 11:58:32 am
Cardinals lose again as they complete tha game suspended from last night.  The Cubs sit now at 5.5 games back and the Pirates 3.5 back.  One more game for them in about 30 minutes so the Cubs could get to 4.5 back at the end of the day.

If we hadn't blown that last game in the series we'd be 3.5 right now and the Pirates would be 2.5 back.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 12, 2015, 03:20:22 pm
Cards losing their game late, 5-1
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on September 12, 2015, 03:36:29 pm
The Cards just lost!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 12, 2015, 03:37:14 pm
St. Louis goes down.

They looked really bad today.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 12, 2015, 03:49:23 pm
Pirates and Cubs both have two extra games to play. The standings aren't yet quite as tight as they seem.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 12, 2015, 03:51:00 pm
If they have two extra games to play, my read would be that it may be tighter than it seems.  If Pirates and Cubs win both their extra games, they're a game closer to the Cards.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 12, 2015, 03:55:47 pm
They're two and four back in the loss column respectively, Curt. So they both have to win their extra games to maintain that distance. In reality, they are a minimum of 2-4 back, a maximum of 4-6 depending on the extra games to be played.

You can always add wins, you can't subtract losses.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 04:30:57 pm
That's why it's called the "all important" loss column.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 12, 2015, 04:38:57 pm
You can always add wins, you can't subtract losses.

Well, the possibility to add wins always exists, but the Cubs have in any number of seasons that you really can't always add them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 12, 2015, 06:39:05 pm
Ortiz just hit #500 down in St. Petersburg.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 12, 2015, 06:51:04 pm
It was Ortiz's second homer of the day, which also made it his 50th multi-homer game in his career.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 12, 2015, 06:52:49 pm
Harmon Killebrew hit #500 and #501 on the same day.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 12, 2015, 06:55:17 pm
The Jays' offense is frightening. Gonna take something special to shut them down in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 08:42:41 pm
The Jays' offense is frightening. Gonna take something special to shut them down in the playoffs.

Adam Morgan, who Cubs beat yesterday, has beaten Jays twice this season---with quality starts both times.

Don't always have to be special. Funny game, sometimes.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 12, 2015, 08:51:14 pm
True, but going to be hard to do four times in seven games.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on September 12, 2015, 08:53:38 pm
A lot can change in 5 weeks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 09:24:53 pm
Baumgarner with perfect game through 5 innings tonight against Padres.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on September 13, 2015, 08:44:12 am
Jays lost Tulowitzki with a **** shoulder blade when he collided with his teammate on a pop fly to short right field
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 13, 2015, 01:05:51 pm
Jays lost Tulowitzki with a **** shoulder blade when he collided with his teammate on a pop fly to short right field
They've now replaced him by getting Darwin Barney from the Dodgers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 13, 2015, 01:41:28 pm
Good for Darwin.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 13, 2015, 04:57:38 pm
Pirates win in extras after being down 6-1.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 14, 2015, 12:31:35 am
This is type of game Rich Hill was pitching at Iowa in 2006.

http://hosted.stats.com/mlb/boxscore.asp?gamecode=350913130&final=true
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 14, 2015, 01:30:55 am
It's nice to see him have a good game.  I just wish he could have sustained things.  At 35 now,it seems a bit unlikely
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on September 14, 2015, 11:38:54 pm

Baseball Republic

Inside the Dominican Machine

Major League Baseball teams' quest to sign teen ballplayers at bargain prices gives a poor island nation a reason to hope ‐ and to hustle


http://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/baseball-republic/ (http://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/baseball-republic/)


Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on September 15, 2015, 09:18:43 pm
Samardzija just gave up 10 ER in 3 innings to the A's.  ERA is now 5.27 on the season.  We got lucky that he rejected a long term deal from us and were able to get Addison Russell for him.  I wonder what kind of deal he'll sign next year. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on September 15, 2015, 09:20:59 pm
I wonder if it will exceed what the Cubs offered before trading him?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 15, 2015, 09:27:18 pm
It couldnt happen to a better person.

Im happy for him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on September 15, 2015, 09:38:02 pm
He'll probably take a QO.  But will White Sox extend one?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 15, 2015, 09:54:50 pm
Samardzija is weird this year.  He became a flyball pitcher who can't strike people out.  His velocity is fine, down 94.2.  His SwingingStrike% is 9.9% which is down about 2 % form his high with the Cubs, but in line with his 2011 numbers when he was K/9 was 8.9.  He seems to throwing his cutter more and his 4 seam/sinker less.  His cutter isn't his best pitch.

If the Cubs don't get Price and Samardzija doesn't get a QO, I would be interested in 1 year deal and let Bosio fix him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on September 15, 2015, 10:03:35 pm
I'll hope Zimmerman is on our radar after Price...he's still a top pitcher who's at his best in big games...and he likely won't command what Price will.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 15, 2015, 10:06:36 pm
Do not want Zimmermann.  The K's disappeared and he's 7 years out from TJS.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on September 15, 2015, 10:19:18 pm
If we can get Samardzjia on a Hammel/Feldman deal, I'd like to have him back.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 15, 2015, 10:20:19 pm
If the Cubs don't get Price and Samardzija doesn't get a QO, I would be interested in 1 year deal and let Bosio fix him.

+1.  Bosio is really good at his job.  He helped get Samardzija on track once, maybe he could do it again.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 15, 2015, 10:23:14 pm
If we can get Samardzjia on a Hammel/Feldman deal, I'd like to have him back.
Shut up, you little snotnosed brat.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 15, 2015, 11:57:17 pm
Belt error leads to a 5 run inning for the Reds 8-5 in the 7th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 16, 2015, 12:34:37 am
Do not want Zimmermann.  The K's disappeared and he's 7 years out from TJS.

Zimmermann's K rate (7.3 per 9) is virtually identical to his career rate (7.4). He is down from 2014, which is now looking like a K outlier.

His TJ was in 8/2009---6 years, not 7.

That he has not repeated his 2014 season means his price probably will be lower than seemed entering this season.  So, he may be more affordable---maybe reasonable enough so that Cubs can re-sign Arrieta when time comes for that. Zimmermann is really good pitcher and competitor.

Don't think there is any real hard data on TJ withering after X number of years. We've talked about this before. But, would not ignore his history entirely either, so consider a deal taking the risk into account in light of his career performance, compared to who else is available. Will be interested to see Theo/Hoyer's evaluation of him and if they pursue him. Sure they will do their "due diligence." Think I will defer to their call.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 16, 2015, 02:39:37 am
Dodgers and Rockies used 22 relievers in their 16 inning game tonight. That doesn't count the reliever Rockies played in RF 16th inning.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on September 16, 2015, 07:23:09 am
REALLY great to see the Reds get 5 in the 7th and a Todd Frazier HR in the 10th to beat the Giants! 

Man, it's tough on contenders winning games this time of the season...teams with nothing to lose are even more dangerous.

Let's hope the Giants lose more in upcoming games so the pressure is off us and we can set our rotation a for October 7.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 16, 2015, 08:29:38 am
Very funny

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2567437-indians-mistakenly-set-off-fireworks-for-home-run-hit-by-royals-alex-rios?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 16, 2015, 10:18:06 am
Zimmermann's K rate (7.3 per 9) is virtually identical to his career rate (7.4). He is down from 2014, which is now looking like a K outlier.

His TJ was in 8/2009---6 years, not 7.

That he has not repeated his 2014 season means his price probably will be lower than seemed entering this season.  So, he may be more affordable---maybe reasonable enough so that Cubs can re-sign Arrieta when time comes for that. Zimmermann is really good pitcher and competitor.

Don't think there is any real hard data on TJ withering after X number of years. We've talked about this before. But, would not ignore his history entirely either, so consider a deal taking the risk into account in light of his career performance, compared to who else is available. Will be interested to see Theo/Hoyer's evaluation of him and if they pursue him. Sure they will do their "due diligence." Think I will defer to their call.

Zimmermann without the K's is 3 WARish pitcher.  That is a really good pitcher.  It is also somebody that is going to cost around $20 million AAV and over $100 million.  He may not get Lester money, but he is still going to be expensive.

Reasons I don't want him.
1.) He is still expensive
2.) At 29 his fastball is down almost 1 mph for his peak.  If that tend continues he is going to have an average fastball pretty quickly
3.) His GB% is 40%.  Flyball pitchers that don't strike out people don't age well.
4.) When he regresses it is going to be from a much lower level than Lester/Price.  He is going to be league average much quicker than they will and the contract will look bad a lot quicker.
5.) Being 6 years out from TJS and losing 1 mph off his fastball does not give me the warm fuzzy feeling that it isn't something to be concerned about.
6.) His xFIP is 3.8, FIP is 3.68, SIERA 3.81.  These are all career highs.

If the Cubs are going to give out big money to a pitcher it needs to be Price.  If they can't get Price they need to look for value or trade for somebody. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on September 16, 2015, 01:12:35 pm
Just saw where Josh Johnson is going to get his THIRD Tommy John surgery....i hope he uses a new surgeon.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 16, 2015, 01:45:30 pm
Zimmermann without the K's is 3 WARish pitcher.  That is a really good pitcher.  It is also somebody that is going to cost around $20 million AAV and over $100 million.  He may not get Lester money, but he is still going to be expensive.

Reasons I don't want him.
1.) He is still expensive
2.) At 29 his fastball is down almost 1 mph for his peak.  If that tend continues he is going to have an average fastball pretty quickly
3.) His GB% is 40%.  Flyball pitchers that don't strike out people don't age well.
4.) When he regresses it is going to be from a much lower level than Lester/Price.  He is going to be league average much quicker than they will and the contract will look bad a lot quicker.
5.) Being 6 years out from TJS and losing 1 mph off his fastball does not give me the warm fuzzy feeling that it isn't something to be concerned about.
6.) His xFIP is 3.8, FIP is 3.68, SIERA 3.81.  These are all career highs.

If the Cubs are going to give out big money to a pitcher it needs to be Price.  If they can't get Price they need to look for value or trade for somebody. 


1. Anybody any good is likely expensive. Sure, could trade for club friendly deal like Carassco but costly in traded players.

2. Zimmermann career average velocity is 93.5. 2015 is 93.0. Just not a big deal.

3. Career GB/FB ratio: 0.76. 2015: 0.75. Again, next to nothing deal. No real change.

4. Actually having a similar, if not better, season than Lester-at-age 29. You can downgrade any pitcher if you "assume" regression. That is speculation, not facts.

5. TJ history is a concern but speculative going forward. 0.5 velocity drop from career average is not a concern.

6. Zimmermann having similar season to his 2013 season. Then, he was better in 2014. Ditto for Lester following his age 29 season. Z at 3.3 rWAR this season--on low end of his career norm. Projecting him at 3.0 is very pessimistic. Don't think that is warranted by these numbers if stays healthy.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 16, 2015, 02:11:34 pm
1. Anybody any good is likely expensive. Sure, could trade for club friendly deal like Carassco but costly in traded players.

2. Zimmermann career average velocity is 93.5. 2015 is 93.0. Just not a big deal.

3. Career GB/FB ratio: 0.76. 2015: 0.75. Again, next to nothing deal. No real change.

4. Actually having a similar, if not better, season than Lester-at-age 29. You can downgrade any pitcher if you "assume" regression. That is speculation, not facts.

5. TJ history is a concern but speculative going forward. 0.5 velocity drop from career average is not a concern.

6. Zimmermann having similar season to his 2013 season. Then, he was better in 2014. Ditto for Lester following his age 29 season. Z at 3.3 rWAR this season--on low end of his career norm. Projecting him at 3.0 is very pessimistic. Don't think that is warranted by these numbers if stays healthy.



1.) At $20+ million he almost costs the same/year as Price.  Zimmerman has had 2 years above rWAR of 4, 1 of fWAR.  Price has 2 seasons below rWAR of 4 and 1 with fWAR.  Signing either one means Arreita would have to walk.
2.) It is a 0.8 decline from last year.  2009/10 TJS surgery year and recovery will afftect the average.
3.) I don't care what his career average is.  I care that he *ISN'T* a ground ball pitcher.  Fly ball pitchers who don't strike out people are bad.
4.) Lester has 2 years below 4 rWAR. 
5.) When handing out $100+ million contracts concerns matter.
6.) Zimmermann has a career rWAR average in complete seasons of 3.8, using fWAR it is 3.72.  He has been fWAR 3.4, 3.3, 3.7, 5.3, 2.9.  I think that is fair to call him a 3 WAR pitcher, who could be starting his decline.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 16, 2015, 03:18:50 pm
1.) At $20+ million he almost costs the same/year as Price.  Zimmerman has had 2 years above rWAR of 4, 1 of fWAR.  Price has 2 seasons below rWAR of 4 and 1 with fWAR.  Signing either one means Arreita would have to walk.
2.) It is a 0.8 decline from last year.  2009/10 TJS surgery year and recovery will afftect the average.
3.) I don't care what his career average is.  I care that he *ISN'T* a ground ball pitcher.  Fly ball pitchers who don't strike out people are bad.
4.) Lester has 2 years below 4 rWAR. 
5.) When handing out $100+ million contracts concerns matter.
6.) Zimmermann has a career rWAR average in complete seasons of 3.8, using fWAR it is 3.72.  He has been fWAR 3.4, 3.3, 3.7, 5.3, 2.9.  I think that is fair to call him a 3 WAR pitcher, who could be starting his decline.

Want to point out one small thing at the outset for future reference. It's a small thing but want to point out in interest of accuracy.

Take point 6. Zimmerman had a partial season in 2011, not a complete season.  But, putting that aside, the rWAR average of the seasons you mention is 3.88.  Most folks would round that off to 3.9 but you average that down to 3.8.  3.88 to 3.8 rather than to 3.9?  Yes, it's a small thing but if you want to be more credible, it would be helpful to be as true to the math as possible  Just don't do that, please.  If don't want to say 3.88, fine, but don't round off to 3.8.  Small thing but why do that?

Using only full seasons, Zimmermann's rWAR average is 4.15. No, that doesn't fit into the future 3.0 WAR argument but if we're talking complete seasons, let the facts fall where they may instead of shoehorning the facts into a result that one wants.

1. As to Price/Zimmermann, have never heard the argument that Zimmermann "almost costs the same/year as Price."  If that is the case, count me out on Zimmermann. But, don't think that will be true.  Price figures to get about 50% more than Zimmermann.

2. 0.8 drop in velocity is only a factor if you assume it will continue downward.  0.8 drop is Jon Lester from 2013 to 2015. David Price had a 2.0 drop in velocity from 2012 to 2013---and was okay going forward, right?  You are making assumptions that are based on a very thin reed.  Velocity can fluctuate a bit from season to season. 0.8, standing alone, is just not that significant.

3. Don't strike out people?  His K ratio is very,very close to his career average, as I pointed out. GB/FB basically the same.  NO real change in either.  And, he's been successful at those ratios.  No stat support for your concerns.

4. No, its 3 seasons below 4.0.  2012, 2013, 2015--which happen to be 3 of last 4 seasons.  I'm fine with that.  Still like Lester.

5. Really, how many pitchers come without concerns. Even expensive ones.  A factor to take into account when making an offer, of course. But, the concerns are minimal, I think.

6. See above.

My view is that Zimmermann has pluses and a concern because of the TJ history.  So, rather than making a broad pronouncement on these facts, I'm fine with leaving it to Theo to assess his interest or non-interest. Assuming an interest, feeling around industry seems to be that Zimmermann interested in going back near his home in Midwest.  No, he is not David Price.  But, guessing could be a good fit to slide into rotation with Lester and Arrieta at the top.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 16, 2015, 04:21:45 pm
How often do TORP's show up early?  Arrieta was expected to be good, then a flop, then trade bait, then we saw growth and we expected a TORP this year, as did some others.   And Trey McNutt looked so good in 2011 that Hendry wouldn't give him to Tampa Bay in the Garza deal and gave them Chris Archer instead.  How did that work out for us?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 16, 2015, 04:47:54 pm
1.) The difference between $20 million and $30 million won't affect the Cubs payroll in a meaningful way.  There isn't a difference in WAR between 3.8 and 3.9 so it doesn't really matter.  I'd consider 26 starts and 161 innings a full year, not a partial season.
2.) Pitchers lose velocity.  Once it starts it doesn't stop, usually about 1/2 mph or so a year.
3.) Zimmerman is below average in K% for NL pitchers, so he isn't a strike out pitcher.  He has a 40% GB rate, which is below average for NL pitchers.  That means more of his outs come from flyballs.  That is why it is a bad thing.  It doesn't matter that it isn't a change from the past.
4.) fWAR, which I like better, has Lester at 4.  So it is 2. by fWAR.  fWAR is more predictive of future success than rWAR.
5.) They all decline.  If you are going to spend big money on a pitcher it should only be the elite ones.  Getting 5 WAR from Price for 3 years and then decline sets you are still getting a decent pitcher until 35 for so.  Zimmerman has less distance to fall before he starts to get bad and he might already be in decline.

Say the Cubs sign Zimermann and Arreita leaves in 2017 because the Cubs don't want 3 $20+ million pitchers are you still ok with the rotation?  If it is Price and Lester I'm still ok with it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 17, 2015, 03:12:04 am
0.8 velocity drop for Zimmermann is bad, you say. What did you say couple years ago when Price dropped 2.0 from one season to the next?  That should tell you subject is more complex than you acknowledge.  0.8 is negligible.  You know that.

Follow this: Zimmermann career K ratio plus Zimmermann GB/FB career ratio= really good pitcher. Doing what he's doing = really good pitcher. And, 2015: virtually no change in the above career norm.

Now you say doing what he's doing is "a bad thing." Do you see the analytic tension there?  He's been doing the same thing in these metrics for years--and has been very good.  So, make no sense that what's good will be bad doing the same thing.  You say you don't care about that.  You should. It works for him.

Also, interesting you omit BB/9, which is more important than GB % and also fits better with K/9.  During above period, Zimmermann is 1.68 walks per 9 innings, which is #7 in MLB.  Curious that you ignore one of the major things that have made him a very good pitcher. 

Here's Lester compared to Zimmermann from 2011 thru 2015 using your preference, fWAR.  This is ERA, FIP, x-FIP, f-WAR:

Lester             3.58-3.45-3.51-18.6
Zimmermann   3.10-3.28-3.58-18.5

Finally, $10 per season difference between two players for 5 or more seasons is a big deal. There are numerous player X vs. player Y decisions that an organization has to make. You cannot run a club and say 50% cost differences between player X and player Y isn't significant. Tell that to Theo and see if he'll hire you to help with personnel decisions.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 17, 2015, 08:17:03 am

Follow this: Zimmermann career K ratio plus Zimmermann GB/FB career ratio= really good pitcher. Doing what he's doing = really good pitcher. And, 2015: virtually no change in the above career norm.

Now you say doing what he's doing is "a bad thing." Do you see the analytic tension there?  He's been doing the same thing in these metrics for years--and has been very good.  So, make no sense that what's good will be bad doing the same thing.  You say you don't care about that.  You should. It works for him.

Here's Lester compared to Zimmermann from 2011 thru 2015 using your preference, fWAR.  This is ERA, FIP, x-FIP, f-WAR:

Lester             3.58-3.45-3.51-18.6
Zimmermann   3.10-3.28-3.58-18.5

Finally, $10 per season difference between two players for 5 or more seasons is a big deal. There are numerous player X vs. player Y decisions that an organization has to make. You cannot run a club and say 50% cost differences between player X and player Y isn't significant. Tell that to Theo and see if he'll hire you to help with personnel decisions.

It works for him at his current velocity. As his velocity decreases his margin of error will decrease to where he can pitch. It is much worse for a fly ball pitcher vs a ground ball pitcher.

I'll take Price over Zimmermann, Wada, Motte, Soriano or Zimmermann and Jackson.

If Price had a 2 mph drop this year, his strike outs dropped and his numbers got worse I would have similar concerns about giving him a large contract.

Comparing non-league park adjusted numbers is unfair. Zimmermann has pitched in the worst division in baseball. When you league/park adjust Lester is better. Lester also has a much higher GB% and strikes people out. He will age better.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 17, 2015, 09:07:25 am
Last night, Mike Olt became the 1st player in MLB history to hit a HR for both the Cubs and the White Sox in the same season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 17, 2015, 11:28:36 am
Surprising that no one had done it before.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 17, 2015, 06:14:07 pm
Kang has a fractured tibia and torn MCL.  Out for the year, obviously.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 17, 2015, 06:22:23 pm
Don't blame the Pirates or their fans for being upset. We'd be apoplectic if that happened to Russell.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 17, 2015, 06:32:10 pm
Coghlan's slide still wasnt dirty.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 17, 2015, 06:34:07 pm
We're just trying to bring a little drama into the WC game.

Maybe this series broke Pittsburgh's will and their spirit.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on September 17, 2015, 07:09:44 pm
As others have said, I hate those slides. 

I wish the rules were changed so that good team players were not obligated to make them, and so that good players wouldn't get injured by them. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 17, 2015, 07:20:37 pm
There is a picture from this series of Kang going spikes up into Baez from yesterday. I'm not sure how you change the rule to avoid it. You can say the feet have to be able to touch the base, but they have the neighborhood play for a reason. Part of it is the SS/2B needing to get out of the way.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 17, 2015, 07:39:49 pm
The Dodgers have DFA'd Mat Latos.  As bad an acquisition as Haren was, at least he seems like a good guy.  Latos seems to make everyone hate him anywhere he goes.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 17, 2015, 07:45:05 pm
Tommy Pham just hit a line drive off Jimmy Nelson's head in Milwaukee. Nelson has left but did so on his own power.

Pham is the new wonderboy for the Cardinals, incidentally. Two homers and a triple yesterday. Three straight homers over two games. Single and double so far tonight.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 17, 2015, 08:37:17 pm
.258/.340/.415 career in the minors...

Wonder who the next sacrificial lamb will be?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 17, 2015, 09:08:13 pm
RIP Milo Hamilton:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/famed-broadcaster-milo-hamilton--the-voice-of-hank-aaron-s-715th-homer--dead-at-88-185306922.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 17, 2015, 09:44:55 pm
MLB revised the Cuban free agency rules. They are now granting exemptions for players that missed the filing deadline. Their is an OF by the name of Ona that is under the penalties and is supposed to be in the Soler/Puig talent class. It might also lead to a rash of defections.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 17, 2015, 10:00:06 pm
Kang is out 6-8 months. By the current rules, Coghlan did nothing wrong.  But MLB should really ban that kind of slide before next season. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ray on September 17, 2015, 10:23:16 pm
not sure if i missed this already.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/9/15/9329591/who-is-san-diego-padres-rookie-pitcher-jay-jackson
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 18, 2015, 09:58:51 am
How do you propose doing that?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on September 18, 2015, 01:09:09 pm
BAN THAT TYPE OF SLIDE? ban the ss or 2B from stepping or planting in the basepath
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 18, 2015, 01:24:16 pm
Kang is out 6-8 months. By the current rules, Coghlan did nothing wrong.  But MLB should really ban that kind of slide before next season. 
We've had enough subjective rules.  The other night the play at the plate went our way but what if it had gone against us?   What if it was the play-in game?   I could see that MLB could review all such plays and hand out fines and suspensions but that's it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 18, 2015, 01:59:10 pm
The rule as it is enforced now is already subjective.  The standard now (could he reach the base?) is already arbitrary because the runners rarely try to reach the base on those types of plays. 

Coghlan clearly had his momentum going towards Kang yesterday even though he could reach the base.  Just make it so that the player's momentum has to be going towards second base, make the play reviewable, and give the replay officials the authority to make the call without having to take the original ruling on the field into account.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 18, 2015, 02:23:14 pm
Didn't say it wasn't subjective.   I'd throw it out.  The new blocking the plate rule too.  Also the rule on tossing pitchers who throw at hitters.  Let the league office sort it out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 18, 2015, 03:00:43 pm
CJ Nitkowski had a really interesting piece on it on JABO.

I guess the 3 infielders that have gotten hurt since 2008 have all been from Asia and in Asia they do not attempt to take out the infielder.   Kang planted and had his momentum going towards Coghlan, so Kang was in as much fault as Coghlan.  The also have a GIF on Kang changing directions to try and take out another infielder and that seems to be a bigger issue.

I think the new rules for catchers are a good thing.  I'm not sure how you make it safer for INF without making it so subjective it will drive people crazy. 

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on September 18, 2015, 04:17:42 pm
Coghlan's slide was totally legal, because while he was leg-whipping, his hand was reaching the base.  I think it would be good to make the rules such that such an unnecessarily dangerous habit should be prohibited. 

Why keep it legal where a perfectly good sport is obligated to try to be tripping somebody like that and endangering somebody's career? 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 18, 2015, 04:29:30 pm
Agree.  Slide to the base, not "slide at the fielder so he can't get the throw off." 

If I was commissioner I would come out and say "Look, I know it's ambiguous because this is how it's always been.  Playing hard, and all that.  Most baseball people don't see anything wrong with Coghlan's slide.  Guys have been taught over and over that that's how you play the game, but we're going to change that.  From now on, slide to the base.  If it looks like you're sliding to take the other guy out, both runners will be out."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 18, 2015, 04:36:04 pm
CJ Nitkowski had a really interesting piece on it on JABO.

I guess the 3 infielders that have gotten hurt since 2008 have all been from Asia and in Asia they do not attempt to take out the infielder.   Kang planted and had his momentum going towards Coghlan, so Kang was in as much fault as Coghlan.  The also have a GIF on Kang changing directions to try and take out another infielder and that seems to be a bigger issue.

I think the new rules for catchers are a good thing.  I'm not sure how you make it safer for INF without making it so subjective it will drive people crazy. 


I don't agree on the catcher thing.  I don't think we should allow a runner to barrel into a catcher who has the ball twenty feet away from the runner, but the current rule is constantly causing both runners and catchers thinking about what they can and cannot do.  Umpires and catchers don't like it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 18, 2015, 04:50:35 pm
"From now on, slide to the base.  If it looks like you're sliding to take the other guy out, both runners will be out."

While that might be a great approach, I don't think the Commissioner gets to unilaterally change the rules of the game in mid-season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 18, 2015, 05:33:17 pm
I don't agree on the catcher thing.  I don't think we should allow a runner to barrel into a catcher who has the ball twenty feet away from the runner, but the current rule is constantly causing both runners and catchers thinking about what they can and cannot do.  Umpires and catchers don't like it.

I think it has gotten a lot better this year. They thing is if you allow the catchers to block the plate and not get run over the runner is going to get thrown out a lot on plays they shouldn't. If you allow the runner to run over catchers on close plays, then we are back to exposing catchers to pointless concussions.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 18, 2015, 08:09:44 pm
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS  3h3 hours ago Florida, USA
bryce vs. mickey, 496 Gs. mantle 84 HR 197 XBH .296/.389/.508/.897 harper 95 HR 204 XBH .290/.384/.519/.903 @baseball_ref

As a big Mickey Mantle fan, I am impressed.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on September 18, 2015, 10:00:02 pm
After 2 and 1/2, Dodgers 2, Pirates 0. 

Greinke has thrown 46 thru 3 innings, so he likely won't go past 6 or 7.  Let's hope Dodgers can pull away.  1 game behind Bucs would be great.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 18, 2015, 10:23:46 pm
Corey Seager is scary good.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 18, 2015, 11:00:56 pm
Pirates down 4-1 through 6 innings.

Since the Cubs hold the tie breaker and the Dodgers face Kershaw tomorrow, it's not out of the question that the Cubs could hold the top wild card spot by this time tomorrow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 18, 2015, 11:21:40 pm
Dodgers have now taken a 6-1 lead in the bottom of the 7th.  So it'll take a pretty big collapse for the Cubs to be more than a game back of the Pirates by the end of the night.

The Giants are also losing, but that's probably about as relevant as the Braves vs. Phillies game from earlier tonight.  The Cubs are still more likely to overtake the Cardinals than blow their wild card lead. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 19, 2015, 09:49:36 am
Back to the sliding into second base question:

Don't most injuries happen when one or both of the runners feet are quite a bit off the ground?  Would there be a way to word a rule change requiring a runner to keep both feet at or near ground level?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 19, 2015, 11:58:52 am
Tim Brown article on hard slides at 2B:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/jung-ho-kang-injury-challenges-principles-of-the-game-075520585.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 19, 2015, 06:21:29 pm
Giants lose, Cubs magic number is 5.  The Cardinals have clinched a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on September 19, 2015, 09:48:57 pm
Pirates up 2-1 bottom of 6th in L.A.  Come on Dodgers!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 19, 2015, 10:09:33 pm
Dodgers just tied the game on an Ellis double.  After an IBB, the bases are loaded with 1 out for Joc Pederson.  Mercer couldn't get the ball out of his glove earlier in the inning on what would've been an easy double play.

Austin Barnes hitting for Pederson.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 19, 2015, 10:26:10 pm
After the Dodgers ground into the DP, the Pirates take the lead back in the top of the 8th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 19, 2015, 10:57:32 pm
Dodgers lose.  Cubs are still a game back.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on September 20, 2015, 02:15:19 am
Cubs and Pirates win, Royals lose. The three best records in MLB belong to the Cardinals, Pirates and Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 21, 2015, 01:45:55 pm
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/molina-will-have-mri-on-left-thumb-wrist/article_1b6e0182-8f8b-5a5d-b516-1e65a14f25ad.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 21, 2015, 05:03:27 pm
Associated Press

ST. LOUIS -- Cardinals All-Star catcher Yadier Molina has a partially torn ligament in his left thumb, and St. Louis hopes he might return during the regular season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 21, 2015, 05:13:05 pm
What a shame.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on September 21, 2015, 05:59:06 pm
That's why Rizzo ran  ;D
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on September 21, 2015, 06:19:38 pm
I suspect the time off will force him to rest. But he'll come back at the top of his game, because voodoo magic.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 21, 2015, 06:35:06 pm
That, or Tony Cruz will become Johnny Bench...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 21, 2015, 06:41:43 pm
They won't miss a beat.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 22, 2015, 06:03:37 pm
It's official: Zito vs. Hudson in Oakland on Saturday.

Is Mark Mulder still an ESPN analyst?  He clearly needs to broadcast that game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 23, 2015, 03:49:25 am
Yogi Berra, Master Yankee Catcher With Goofy Wit, Dies at 90

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/sports/baseball/yogi-berra-dies-at-90-yankees-baseball-catcher.html?_r=0
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AZSteve on September 23, 2015, 07:50:36 am
RIP Yogi...a great life well lived,,,
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 23, 2015, 08:38:01 am
I expect there will be a few of his Yogisms posted.

Mine is "And they give ya' cash, which is just as good as money." from the TV commercial, even though it may have been scripted
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 23, 2015, 01:18:03 pm
Seaman Second Class Lawrence P. Berra was on a rocket boat stationed off the coast of Normandy on June 6, 1944, barely three weeks after his 19th birthday. He and the other six men in the 36-foot craft provided fire support for the invasion that came to be known simply as D-Day and remained in the area for nearly two weeks after the initial landings.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-09-23/yogi-berra-d-day-world-war-ii-us-navy-service-new-york-yankees

What a life...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 23, 2015, 02:39:16 pm
Good article on Yogi.  Includes a chart showing the truly remarkable ratio of HRs and SOs.

Berra was unlikely even as a baseball player: All of 5 feet 7 inches tall, he launched 358 home runs during his career, 90 more than anyone his height or shorter.2 Berra was an unusually disciplined batter, striking out in only 4.9 percent of his plate appearances. That combination of power and plate discipline is exceptionally rare in MLB history. Sluggers tend to strike out at higher-than-average rates because they are often selective and waiting for a pitch to drive. Players with more than 350 home runs have struck out, on average, in 15.8 percent of plate appearances, more than three times Berra’s rate. No one else with a strikeout rate below 5.5 percent hit more home runs than Berra did. When you add up his position, size, power and plate discipline, Berra is unique in all of baseball’s history.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/baseball-yogi-berra-dies-at-90-yankees/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 23, 2015, 03:35:36 pm
Rest in peace Yogi.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 23, 2015, 03:57:49 pm
MLB Network Radio ‏@MLBNetworkRadio  2h2 hours ago
.@Dodgers announce Zack Greinke will miss his start tonight (calf soreness), expected make next turn in rotation. Tonight's SP TBD
Title: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 23, 2015, 06:43:26 pm
I wonder if this would be considered a "big hit" to Greinke's CYA chances?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 23, 2015, 06:49:08 pm
I would hope that Arrieta's performances these past few weeks would be grounds for Greinke's slide.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 23, 2015, 09:55:33 pm
Nationals lost.

Pirates winning.

Giants winning.

Cardinals are winning. I see they have missed Molina.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 24, 2015, 11:38:31 pm
Derek Norris with a leadoff double in the bottom of the 9th of a tie game against the Giants.  Come on, Padres.

Sac bunt.  Winning run at third with one out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 24, 2015, 11:45:18 pm
Amarista walk off hit.  Padres win, Giants lose.  The magic number is 1.

The Cubs can clinch a playoff spot by winning tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on September 25, 2015, 12:29:32 am
If it's gonna happen tomorrow, I really hope they clinch with a win at Wrigley versus via a Giants loss late tomorrow night. Especially since the game is on MLB network, and those of us outside of IL will actually get to see the party.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on September 25, 2015, 05:39:15 am
Might as well get used to celebrating by beating Cole and the Pirates.  Hopefully we do that today and then again on October 7.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 25, 2015, 07:14:08 am
Heh, heh.  Count me in. I'll be at Wrigley today with a friend who has been a fan longer than I have. It would be really special to be there when they clinch and to get a taste of the party.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on September 25, 2015, 07:28:13 am
Ron, I'm glad to hear you will be at today's game and I'll hope you find time to post some recap of the game, including the vibe in the stands.

In past playoff years, I've felt Cub fans seemed to be waiting for the other shoe to drop rather than propping up our guys with wildly enthusiastic support. 

Whether or not that's true, I'll certainly hope Wrigley fans help provide a true home-field advantage from today on...and I'll be interested in hearing your description of our fans in the park, as well as of the game itself.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 25, 2015, 07:41:07 am
Heh, heh.  Count me in. I'll be at Wrigley today with a friend who has been a fan longer than I have. It would be really special to be there when they clinch and to get a taste of the party.

Drink a beer for me.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on September 25, 2015, 09:44:41 am
Ron, I'll be at the game, too.  Aisle 14, row 9, seats 107-110.  Stop by if you care to.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 25, 2015, 10:05:37 am
http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/09/25/video-joe-west-stares-down-madison-bumgarner/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs&ref=yfp
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 25, 2015, 10:10:42 am
From Playtwo's link

Quote
Joe West is an unprofessional clown who is bad at his job to boot. He shouldn’t be umpiring games at all. That Major League Baseball still lets him is a total joke.


No ambiguity there.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 25, 2015, 10:42:42 am
Ron, I'll be at the game, too.  Aisle 14, row 9, seats 107-110.  Stop by if you care to.

Whoa. Those are great seats.  I don't think the ushers would even let a peon like me near your VIP seats.

I'll trade you.  I'm in Aisle 527, row 9, seats 101-102. Mine are behind home plate anyway, just a little higher up than yours. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 25, 2015, 07:46:13 pm
Derrick Goold ‏@dgoold  25m25 minutes ago
Seven pitches into his start, Carlos Martinez has been removed from the game, walking with a trainer. Emotional as he leaves. #Cardinals

Derrick GooldVerified account ‏@dgoold  10m10 minutes ago
Carlos Martinez exited with right shoulder tightness, per official. #Cardinals
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 25, 2015, 08:18:22 pm
That breaks my heart.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 26, 2015, 08:27:09 am
The Pirates are now 3 games behind the Cardinals with 8 games left (3 head-to-head). It would be nice if those two teams would finish tied so they'd each have to burn their best starter in a playoff for the division with the loser still facing the Cubs in the wild card game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 26, 2015, 08:31:42 am
The Pirates are now 3 games behind the Cardinals with 8 games left (3 head-to-head). It would be nice if those two teams would finish tied so they'd each have to burn their best starter in a playoff for the division with the loser still facing the Cubs in the wild card game.

Except that they probably would not each pitch their best starter in a one game playoff.  One game playoffs tend to be so soon after such a close race that teams are not really able to set up their rotations that way.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 26, 2015, 01:05:40 pm
I was listening to the Buster Onley's podcast and Chris Archer has 174 K's with his slider this year. Going into today he had 246 K's.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 26, 2015, 02:32:19 pm
I was listening to the Buster Onley's podcast and Chris Archer has 174 K's with his slider this year. Going into today he had 246 K's.

He also has an ERA+ of 135 and is now 27 with five more years of team control.

I didn't like that trade in 2011.  I still don't like it now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on September 26, 2015, 04:19:46 pm
Cleveland traded Archer for about one year of Mark DeRosa. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 26, 2015, 05:21:12 pm
Cleveland traded Archer for about one year of Mark DeRosa. 


I don't get too concerned about the poor trades made by other teams.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 26, 2015, 05:24:08 pm
A bit of baseball trivia history --

Which NL pitcher had the highest average ranking in strikeout leadership from 1964-1966?  Not which pitcher had the most K's during that time, but which pitcher during those three years averaged the highest ranking for strikeout leadership during that period?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 26, 2015, 05:36:51 pm
The easy answer is Koufax, so I'll assume that's not correct...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 26, 2015, 05:53:35 pm
That would also have been my guess but I guess on this one our baseball ignorance is shared.

Koufax is not the right answer.  We were both forgetting that he missed more than 10 starts in 1964.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 27, 2015, 04:17:43 am
Cardinals have lost Carlos Martinez for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 27, 2015, 08:17:18 am
I would assume the next logical guess would be Gibson?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 27, 2015, 09:30:43 am
I would assume the next logical guess would be Gibson?

Gibson would be the next logical guess.... but in looking at the rankings again, it appears the first logical guess, Koufax, would have been right all along.

Koufax finished fourth in 1964, because of missing 10+ starts.  He led in 1965 and 1966, giving him an average of 2nd place for those three years.

In 1964 it was Veale, Gibson, Drysdale and Koufax, in that order.

In 1965 it was Koufax, Veale, Gibson and Bunning, in that order.

And in 1966 it was Koufax, Bunning, Veale and Gibson.

So with a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, Veale averaged a 2nd place finish, but with a 4th, and two 1sts, so did Koufax.

So Koufax would have been correct from the start.  My initial division was off, and the legend of jesmath only grows.

Gibson, with a 4th, 2nd and 3rd had an average of 3rd.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 27, 2015, 02:08:19 pm
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/25-things-you-didn-t-know-about-baseball--bryce-harper-vs--ted-williams-233507125.html#
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 27, 2015, 02:12:19 pm
http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/09/27/matt-harvey-asked-mets-to-revise-innings-limit-plan/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 27, 2015, 03:19:46 pm
Papelbon apparently went after Harper in the Nationals dugout this afternoon.  Good think the Cubs didn't end up with Papelbon when it was rumored that they were interested a few months ago.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 27, 2015, 03:31:50 pm
Good thing AND a good think
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 27, 2015, 03:42:01 pm
Too bad they didn't take each other out:

https://vine.co/v/exPXMYBmPX3
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on September 27, 2015, 04:12:07 pm
Rosenthal just gave up a grand slam and the Brewers lead the Cards 5-3.  Pirates may have a shot to catch them next series. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on September 27, 2015, 04:14:01 pm
Rosenthal and Maness have given up 7 runs in the top of the 9th to see the Brewers take an 8-3 lead.  Finally recorded the 2nd out of the inning, on the 9th batter. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 27, 2015, 04:27:17 pm
They're great...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on September 27, 2015, 07:24:03 pm
Papelbon apparently went after Harper in the Nationals dugout this afternoon.  Good think the Cubs didn't end up with Papelbon when it was rumored that they were interested a few months ago.

https://youtu.be/EhWBiXsWngo (https://youtu.be/EhWBiXsWngo)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 27, 2015, 09:34:09 pm
Ben Badler ‏@BenBadler  8m8 minutes ago
As an MLB manager, you need to be detail-oriented. How can you not know that one of your players is CHOKING a teammate in your own dugout?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on September 27, 2015, 09:35:32 pm
There has been plenty of choking going on with the Nationals this season, even aside from Papelbon.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 27, 2015, 09:50:30 pm
Didn't they fall apart when they traded for Papelbon?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 27, 2015, 10:01:28 pm
Not sure when it fell apart for them, but it was around that time.

I just find this interesting.

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS  3m3 minutes ago
Jon Heyman retweeted Philip Gardner
true story: williams' mother was law-enforcement officer who arrested manson at death valley, 1969
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 27, 2015, 10:30:35 pm
There were several strange things about the Papelbon physically attacking Harper. One of the most striking to me was the way it's been reported as being a fight between Harper and Papelbon, given that Papelbon clearly attacked Harper, going immediately for Harper's neck.

And another was that Harper is the one who was (apparently) sent to the locker room, while Papelbon went out to pitch the next half inning. I know that Matt Williams seems clueless a good deal of the time, but this was truly remarkable.

As was said on the ESPN coverage of the Cubs game, Papelbon was not the guy to call out Harper for not running hard on his popout, and that was not the time or method for doing so.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 28, 2015, 07:32:27 am
There were several strange things about the Papelbon physically attacking Harper. One of the most striking to me was the way it's been reported as being a fight between Harper and Papelbon, given that Papelbon clearly attacked Harper, going immediately for Harper's neck.

And another was that Harper is the one who was (apparently) sent to the locker room, while Papelbon went out to pitch the next half inning. I know that Matt Williams seems clueless a good deal of the time, but this was truly remarkable.

The report I read was not that Harper was sent anywhere, but that instead he took himself out of the game and on his own decided he was not going to return to take the field.... and if that report is correct, then it makes it even more puzzling that Williams would not have known what happened.  Does Williams allow players to all on their own, without so much as an explanation, decide whether they are going to play the next inning.  You can certainly understand a manager allowing a player to decide he is no longer in physically or emotionally able to take the field, but you would really expect the manager to ask, "Why?"  If Williams was honest after the game in telling reporters he did not know during the game what happened, he apparently did not ask anything about why Harper was not returning to the field.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 28, 2015, 12:18:50 pm
Quote
There has been plenty of choking going on with the Nationals this season, even aside from Papelbon.

Very nice.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 12:46:56 pm
Papelbon dropped his appeal about the suspension he received for throwing at Machado last week.  The Nationals then suspended him for the other four remaining games this year, so his season is over.  That makes Matt Williams look even worse--the team thought it was a big enough deal to send Papelbon home for the year, but Williams didn't even think it was bad enough to pull him from the game?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on September 28, 2015, 12:51:01 pm
I don't really follow the Nats, but it's hard to see how Williams can keep his job after this season.  I remember reading that the owner or the GM (or both) really like him, and he just won manager of the year last year (right?), but still.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 28, 2015, 01:41:39 pm
Williams said after the game that, from where he was standing in dugout, didn't know full extent of what happened, presumably Papelbon's hands around Harper's neck. That's why Papelbon took field for the 9th.

One could argue that makes it even worse. Seems obvious that Williams should have talked to who was nearby, so he would know. That's his job: to know. Says something about Williams' communication skills that he remained in the dark.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 28, 2015, 01:43:58 pm
Papelbon has been suspended for the rest of the year by the Nationals and MLB suspended him 3 games for hitting Machado in the head.  I guess the question is will they just release him or will they be able to trade him and what are they going to do with Storen now?

Buster Onley pointed out that Harper called out Papelbon for hitting Machado in the head and Buster's theory is that Paplebon was looking to call out Harper for something.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 28, 2015, 01:47:54 pm
Williams is terrible and Papelbon's a cancer, but from some reports it sounds like Harper had it coming.  Reb, what have you heard?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 28, 2015, 02:19:05 pm
Makes sense to say something to Harper. But Papelbon was the wrong guy to do it. Not only because he was a newbie and a relief pitcher, but also because of their history (Machado). In any event, a physical attack (much less grabbing his throat) was way the Hell out of line. Agree with DeRosa's take.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on September 28, 2015, 03:14:53 pm
What was DeRosa's take?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on September 28, 2015, 04:00:02 pm
Nats recently eliminated and Harper only in lineup because it was Fan Appreciation Day. Everybody here wants to see Harper, naturally.  So, he played. Dumbest thing I've read about this was the Nitkowski piece on ESPN, who is arguing Harper shares the blame. Nutty. Hit an easy out flyball to shallow LF and didn't run hard. A nothing play. You can watch most any game and see that. Whole thing is a pretext because Papelbon mad about what Harper said about his stupid headhunting recently. Nats players know that Papelbon is a jackass about this and Nats fans know this too. There is no controversy at all.

Papelbon very likely has played last game ever for Nats. So has Storen, who is totally alienated from the organization. That will be a mutual parting of ways. If Nats can find taker for Papelbon, fine, but guessing might have to release him. Maybe someone will be desperate for a closer and trade for him. In any case, he's gone.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on September 28, 2015, 04:11:36 pm
Scherzer looking to take the fight off the front page...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 28, 2015, 05:10:39 pm
In total agreement with Reb, in particular about the Nitkowski piece.  Among other things, Nitkowski somehow managed to completely ignore the stranglehold Papelbon put on Harper.  What an ass.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 28, 2015, 05:23:09 pm
What was DeRosa's take?

"Here's my problem with Jonathan Papelbon. You've played 63 innings this year. You've been in the clubhouse probably — every closer I've ever been with — through the fifth inning getting a rubdown, eatin' a sandwich, doing your Jobe exercises, takin' your time. You've earned that right. His pedigree — he's earned the right to do that. That's the way [John Smoltz] went about it. All the great closers I played with, they're not gonna get down there in the first inning.

"You’re top-stepping a guy who’s played in 1,262 innings, who’s hitting .336 with 41 homers, is gonna be the National League MVP and you’re questioning whether or not he goes to the post everyday,” DeRosa said (via the Washington Post’s Jake Russell). “That’s tired, okay?”

He added: “No reliever should tell a position player anything about hustle. Go stand out there in the rain, sleet and snow while you guys are giving up gap shots. That bothered me.”


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/former-player-scathing-down-jonathan-200700275.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 28, 2015, 05:35:24 pm
Exchange between Cliff Floyd and Mark DeRosa (via Jake Russell) - Read from the bottom, up.

Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  7h7 hours ago
DeRosa calls Papelbon an animal. Floyd replies: "The animal is not gonna attack me in the dugout without repercussions."

 Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  7h7 hours ago
Cliff Floyd: "If I'm Bryce Harper, I am waiting at [Papelbon's] front door today cuz this ain't over."

 Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  7h7 hours ago
Floyd on Harper/Papelbon: "You cross the line when you touch me. You're not my big brother no more."

 Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  7h7 hours ago
Floyd: "At the end of the day, you're not gonna choke me out with the intent that I saw yesterday."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 05:43:14 pm
Dirk Hayhurst had what I thought was a pretty good take too about the whole culture that creates these kinds of situations:

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bryce-harper-jonathan-papelbon-and-the-problem-with-unwritten-rules
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 28, 2015, 05:53:01 pm
Matt Williams was apparently 45 minutes late for his press conference today. Below are resulting tweets via Jake Russell.

Williams says he took Harper out of the lineup today because of his part in the "altercation" ... although he doesn't know what Harper could have done differently (and although Harper was scheduled to have the day off anyway).

Says he never asked any questions at the time and still has not spoken to Papelbon to find out why Papelbon was yelling at Harper (or, presumably, why he attacked Harper). Matt Williams seems to be one heck of a leader, someone someone who would inspire trust and confidence from his players.

Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  5h5 hours ago
Williams says Bryce Harper will be out of the lineup today for his part in altercation

Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  5h5 hours ago
Williams on Bryce: "I don't know what he could have done differently but he was involved in it."

Jake Russell Retweeted
Erin Flynn ‏@EFlynn_SI  5h5 hours ago
Bryce "benched" on a day he was scheduled for rest. I think this is just supposed to appear as a punishment

Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  5h5 hours ago
Williams said he did not ask any questions about the fight while in the dugout.

Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  5h5 hours ago
Williams on putting Pabelbon in during the 9th inning: "I take responsibility for that. I could have gotten more information on it."

Jake Russell ‏@_JakeRussell  5h5 hours ago
Wiliams doesn't know why Papelbon was yelling at Harper in the first place and hasn't talked to him about it.

Jake Russell Retweeted
Dan Steinberg ‏@dcsportsbog  4h4 hours ago Washington, DC
There's a reason Harper kept talking about his final six games yesterday and not his final seven. And it wasn't cuz he was suspended!!!

Jake Russell Retweeted
Dan Steinberg ‏@dcsportsbog  5h5 hours ago
Bryce Harper, yesterday: "I'm gonna get my day off tomorrow, like I was scheduled for." Matt Williams today: you're benched!


Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 06:07:00 pm
Today was the Nationals' last home game, right?  Seems like a pretty non-fan-friendly move to bench the MVP in his last home game of the year.

Williams pretty clearly knows he's going to be fired, and he just doesn't fake caring anymore. They really should've sent him home and let the bench coach finish out the season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on September 28, 2015, 07:30:32 pm
If you think the Harper/Papelborn fight was bad....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScitlyiAsp8
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 28, 2015, 07:34:49 pm
Friends, Romans, Countrymen?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 28, 2015, 08:21:21 pm
None of the top 4 teams in the MLs have managed a run yet tonight.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 28, 2015, 08:24:13 pm
And they are all playing in two games.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 08:26:19 pm
Piscotty and Bourjos just collided on a catch in left-center, and Piscotty is out cold.  No movement so far, and a cart is coming out on the field.  Hope he's okay.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 08:28:08 pm
Piscotty's head went right into Bourjos' knee.  This is scary.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 08:32:58 pm
Piscotty waves as they're taking him off the field, which is good.  But that was the scariest collision I've seen in a baseball game. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 08:52:55 pm
Twitter says Piscotty was taken to the hospital for a head contusion.

As much as concussions suck, that might be best case scenario.  That really could've been a really serious neck injury. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 09:28:46 pm
Cardinals score 3 against the Pirates in the 9th.

Arrieta taking out the Pirates next Wednesday isn't going to be nearly as fun as taking out the Cardinals would be.  Come on, Pirates.  Score four.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on September 28, 2015, 09:44:54 pm
Pirates get shut out, stranding 16 baserunners.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on September 28, 2015, 09:45:45 pm
The Arrieta Hangover Effect.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 09:53:45 pm
Greinke has given up 2 runs in the second inning, and the Giants are still batting.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 09:55:40 pm
Greinke: 1.72 ERA, Arrieta: 1.82 ERA.  No real difference there anymore.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on September 28, 2015, 10:48:51 pm
I think a three-way tie for the Cy Young Award would be the best result.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 29, 2015, 11:43:54 pm
Kershaw has a 1-hitter with 12 K's through 8 tonight.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 30, 2015, 12:15:21 am
Kershaw finishes with a 1-hitter and 13 K.


His second half:

10-1, 1.36 ERA, 106 IP, 62 H, 15 BB, 124 K,  0.73 WHIP


Arrieta's second half:

11-1, 0.80 ERA,  101-1/3 IP, 53 H, 23 BB, 106 K, 0.75 WHIP

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on September 30, 2015, 12:48:29 pm
OUCH!
Starling Marte hit by pitch - then removed for pinch-runner - in 1st inning?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on September 30, 2015, 01:04:56 pm
Error on MLB.com - PINCH-RUNNER flashed across screen again after a Walker HR?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on September 30, 2015, 01:08:50 pm
Cervelli Ks - PINCH-RUNNER flashes again
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 01:35:57 pm
With Cole pitching today it is going to be interesting how sharp he is for the Wild Card game as he will have 7 days off.  I could see him being overpowering or being slightly off on his command and running up a pitch count.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on September 30, 2015, 01:41:04 pm
Better hope for the latter considering Cole's 7-1 in 9 starts against the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on September 30, 2015, 01:41:44 pm
Polanco throws out Holliday at home - trying to score from 2nd on a single by Peralta - 1-1 tie - bottom of 4
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on September 30, 2015, 01:53:32 pm
Cervelli with a Granny - 5-1 Pirates in 4th
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 01:57:00 pm
Better hope for the latter considering Cole's 7-1 in 9 starts against the Cubs.

The Pirates are 3-1 against the Cubs this year when Cole starts.  He has 2.48 ERA against the Cubs in 25.1 IP.

The Cubs are 3-0 against the Pirates when Arrieta starts.  He has a 0.82 ERA aginst the Pirates in 22 IP.

Chances are it is going to be a low scoring game for both teams.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on September 30, 2015, 03:25:02 pm
Those are two very interesting different perspectives.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on September 30, 2015, 05:00:21 pm
If the Cubs win 2.48 to .82 I'll take it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 05:02:43 pm
I'll take 1-0 or 20-19.  I'm not picky.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on September 30, 2015, 05:46:34 pm
Don't look now but the Cardinal's rotation isn't doing so hot.  Wacha got lit up again today.  Martinez is down for the year.  Lynn has not been good for a while.  They are looking at Lackey, Garcia and Lynn in the playoffs.   While not terrible considering their problems on offense I'm glad they would be the Cubs opponent in the NLDS.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 07:28:18 pm
Cespedes was hit in the wrist with a pitch and pulled from the game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on September 30, 2015, 09:12:33 pm
The Cardinals have won the NL Central.

The only race left in the NL is the home field advantage in the wild card game.  The Cubs are 2.5 back.  If they win out and the Pirates go 1-2, the wild card game will be played at Wrigley.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on September 30, 2015, 09:25:16 pm
1st year back in the play-offs and cub fans cant WAIT to play the cards in the play-offs... its a easy win....

October Cardinals have more voodoo then regular season carninals btw... Matt Carpenter will turn into barry bonds in roughly 85 min.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on September 30, 2015, 10:20:46 pm
Cubs will be lucky to get past the Pirates let alone the Cardinals.

Not going to happen this season. But a good learning experience for the team going forward.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on September 30, 2015, 11:17:04 pm
I dont know if we're the type of dominant, elite team that normally wins the World Series but other than the Cards Im not sure there is that type of team this year and St. Louis doesnt really scare me.

We may very well be one and out but if we do go on a magical run and win it all it wont be the most surprising thing Ive seen in sports.

Maybe just the most out of the blue.

Either way Im excited for the chance to see our Cubbies in October.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 12:04:01 am
Evan Gattis with his 11th triple of the season tonight.

ELEVEN.

Gattis career steals?  Zero.

Triple tonight a product of RF falling on his face attempting to catch Gattis liner.

Would like to see compilation of all Gattis triples this season. Think maybe more pratfalls.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 01, 2015, 12:21:46 am
The Cardinals have won the NL Central.

The only race left in the NL is the home field advantage in the wild card game.  The Cubs are 2.5 back.  If they win out and the Pirates go 1-2, the wild card game will be played at Wrigley.
The Reds visit Pittsburgh for a three game series that starts on Friday.

Depending on the storm track, hurricane Joaquin could have an impact on the weather in Pittsburgh starting on Saturday and possibly lasting through Tuesday.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 01, 2015, 06:05:08 am
Quote
Elias Sports Bureau: TOR's run differential is +136 over any team in its league. Of history's 15 teams at +130/better vs. league, 12 won WS.

https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/649523260250529792
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 01, 2015, 09:34:06 am
Have to wonder how many of Gattis's triples are really "doubles and taking 3rd on the throw home"...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 01, 2015, 09:35:14 am
Having said that, Houston's OF does have some crazy angles that could easily turn doubles into triples...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 01, 2015, 12:31:25 pm
Jeff Sullivan ‏@based_ball  3m3 minutes ago
in the last 15 years, there have been 585 pitcher-seasons with 200+ innings. lowest OBPs allowed:

2015 Greinke
2015 Kershaw
2015 Arrieta
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 12:40:17 pm
Having said that, Houston's OF does have some crazy angles that could easily turn doubles into triples...

Yeah, get a load of this Gattis triple. Love the throw.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dvufgWTiCGI
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 01, 2015, 01:01:59 pm
Yeah, get a load of this Gattis triple. Love the throw.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dvufgWTiCGI

Now that was exciting to watch.  Why teams want to move their fences in, and turn awesome runners-flying-around-the-bases extra-base hits like this one into boring home runs, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 01:07:24 pm
Think the hill is coming down in Houston. Too bad.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 01, 2015, 09:09:24 pm
Yeah, get a load of this Gattis triple. Love the throw.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dvufgWTiCGI


Here's another one, and it appears to be a real triple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxz5YG7ydUY#t=21
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 09:44:54 pm
Now that was exciting to watch.  Why teams want to move their fences in, and turn awesome runners-flying-around-the-bases extra-base hits like this one into boring home runs, I have no idea.

Think that throw from deep CF is closest thing to a Hail Mary pass I've ever seen in majors.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 02, 2015, 12:05:27 pm
Evisceration of Nationals management:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 12:19:58 pm
Impossible, DMF.  Emotion, chemistry, and stuff like this doesn't happen.  These are professionals.  Mindless robots.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 02, 2015, 12:28:09 pm
Yeah.  "Managers don't matter."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 12:28:43 pm
And, in this case, general managers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 12:29:10 pm
It's one of the reasons I hate hearing that we have an interest in Smarjadork.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 02, 2015, 12:41:05 pm
Quote
general managers.

Yeah, that piece indicts all of them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 12:48:38 pm
"In this case" means just Rizzo.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 02, 2015, 12:58:02 pm
It's one of the reasons I hate hearing that we have an interest in Smarjadork.

I'm curious what has he done that effects team chemistry?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 01:19:01 pm
Grumbling,  getting into the face of coaches and managers.   He was on the grassy knoll.  He sells weapons to ISIS. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 02, 2015, 01:25:06 pm
I seem to remember most of his grumbling about playing for crappy Cubs teams and not wanting to play for a team that is tanking.  If the manager was Sveum can you blame him?  He's too young for the grassy knoll.  The selling weapons to ISIS is concerning.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 02, 2015, 01:32:25 pm
The Cubs have had a few players I didnt like and they did and a few I did like that they didnt.

If its what's best for the team then I wont ****.

Adding Samardzija to our team would help it tremendously.

I do think its funny that I told you all he was a bastard several years ago to much ridicule and now you all accept it as common knowledge.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 02:59:58 pm
Patrick Mooney has a piece up (link below) noting that Cubs tried to trade for Papelbon before trade deadline but were outbid.

Big difference between Cubs and Nats is that Cubs have guys (Ross, Lester, Maddon) who maybe could have reined in Papelbon's worst tendencies and Nats did not. A guy look Ross might well know beforehand that Papelbon was mad at a teammate (as Papelbon was at Harper following Harper's remarks about the HBP) and headed the whole thing off beforehand.

Not really a clubhouse chemistry thing but a matter of having team leaders and a manager who knows what's going on in the clubhouse.

Highly recommend the 3-part series in Washington Post about the Nats. Writer was working on the series all season and had permission to publish when Nats mathematically eliminated. Good stuff in all 3 parts about roster construction, clubhouse issues, and grind of 162 game season.

Mooney piece:

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/what-if-cubs-had-traded-jonathan-papelbon
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: grrrrlacher on October 02, 2015, 03:34:28 pm
The Cubs have had a few players I didnt like and they did and a few I did like that they didnt.

If its what's best for the team then I wont ****.

Adding Samardzija to our team would help it tremendously.

I do think its funny that I told you all he was a bastard several years ago to much ridicule and now you all accept it as common knowledge.

(http://smrpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/I_told_you_so.jpg)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 02, 2015, 03:43:49 pm
Patrick Mooney has a piece up (link below) noting that Cubs tried to trade for Papelbon before trade deadline but were outbid.

Big difference between Cubs and Nats is that Cubs have guys (Ross, Lester, Maddon) who maybe could have reined in Papelbon's worst tendencies and Nats did not. A guy look Ross might well know beforehand that Papelbon was mad at a teammate (as Papelbon was at Harper following Harper's remarks about the HBP) and headed the whole thing off beforehand.

Not really a clubhouse chemistry thing but a matter of having team leaders and a manager who knows what's going on in the clubhouse.

Highly recommend the 3-part series in Washington Post about the Nats. Writer was working on the series all season and had permission to publish when Nats mathematically eliminated. Good stuff in all 3 parts about roster construction, clubhouse issues, and grind of 162 game season.

Mooney piece:

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/what-if-cubs-had-traded-jonathan-papelbon

Link(s) to the WaPo series?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 03:57:32 pm
Link(s) to the WaPo series?

This is part 3. At bottom of the piece, there are links to part 1 and part 2.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 04:54:28 pm
The Orioles and Nationals don't have a game scheduled with anyone tonight?  What's up with that?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 02, 2015, 04:56:02 pm
The Orioles and Nationals don't have a game scheduled with anyone tonight?  What's up with that?
That game has been rained out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 02, 2015, 05:02:47 pm
I do think its funny that I told you all he was a bastard several years ago to much ridicule and now you all accept it as common knowledge.

Not even close.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 02, 2015, 05:09:48 pm
Patrick Mooney has a piece up (link below) noting that Cubs tried to trade for Papelbon before trade deadline but were outbid....

Same guy could be a totally different story in a different place.  Papelbon pitched reasonably well for Washington, much better than Hunter; we could have used a reasonably good reliever.  Cubs are winning, Cubs have a happy clubhouse, probably none of the ugly would have manifested. 

Mooney piece also notes that Cubs also tried to get Utley.  Who's hitting .200 for LA.  Cubs might look quite different if we'd gotten Utley, Papelbon, (and Mark Appel). 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 02, 2015, 05:13:39 pm
This is part 3. At bottom of the piece, there are links to part 1 and part 2.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html

Thanks. Interesting series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 05:14:11 pm
Here's interesting piece on defensive runs saved leader Kevin Kiermaier. (Inciarte is second in defensive runs saved).

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25324949
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 02, 2015, 07:05:07 pm
Reds over Pirates 4-0 going into the bottom of the third.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 02, 2015, 08:08:12 pm
Cubs might look quite different if we'd gotten Utley, Papelbon, (and Mark Appel). 

Playing for the Cubs, all three would have been stars.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:14:44 pm
Reds and Pirates tied at 4 through 8.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:22:30 pm
Reds fail to score in the 9th off Melancon.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:24:27 pm
Chapman in to pitch the 9th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:32:07 pm
Chapman retires the Pirates on 13 pitches.  Maybe he'll pitch the 10th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:35:34 pm
Illegitimateo pitching the 10th for the Pirates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:41:52 pm
Reds fail to score in the 10th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:44:19 pm
LeCure in to pitch the 10th for the Reds. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:47:24 pm
Leadoff single for McCutchen.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on October 02, 2015, 09:49:58 pm
ARam K's for the 1st out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on October 02, 2015, 09:52:23 pm
4-6-3!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:57:28 pm
Duvall with a leadoff single for the Reds in the 11th.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 09:58:54 pm
Duvall to second on a sac bunt.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 10:01:26 pm
Schumaker called out on strikes.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 10:04:52 pm
Holt walks.  Votto up with 2 men on and two outs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 10:06:30 pm
Votto HBP to load the bases.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 02, 2015, 10:08:34 pm
McCutcheon grabs a bases-loaded drive to the wall.  Bottom of 11th coming up. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 10:12:02 pm
Balester pitching the 11th for the Reds.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 10:12:38 pm
Leadoff walk to Ishikawa on 4 pitches.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 10:30:43 pm
Why didn't Balester hit Ishikawa.  Votto got hit.  Doesn't Balester know "the code"?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 02, 2015, 10:34:09 pm
Marte walkoff. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 02, 2015, 10:34:34 pm
Pirates win.

Reds are crap. Pirates are very good.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 03, 2015, 12:30:26 am
Brandon Guyer hit three times today by Mark Buehrle.

Guyer has now been HBP 24 times in only 379 PAs this season.

Rizzo has been HBP 30 times but in 691 PAs.

Edge:  Guyer.

Mickey Mantle was HBP only 13 times in his career 10,180 PAs, including post-season.

Edge: Guyer (again)

And you thought trading away Chris Archer was bad. Imagine Rizzo and Guyer in same lineup.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 03, 2015, 01:44:22 am
Reds have lost 13 in a row and are tied in loss column with Phils for most losses in majors this season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 03, 2015, 08:07:48 pm
Supposedly the homer that put the Reds up 3-1 and was tossed back onto the field was then thrown into the river by McCutchen.  Good, Pirates, get frustrated!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 08:23:12 pm
Scherzer is 2 outs from a no hitter.

Now 1 out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 08:23:56 pm
17 Ks for Scherzer too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 03, 2015, 08:24:55 pm
Texas allowed five runs in the ninth and then lost the game when Elvis Andrus overslid second base and was tagged.

All these confidence-destroying things happening to other teams and not ours sure is nice for a change.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 08:25:25 pm
Scherzer gets the no hitter.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AZSteve on October 03, 2015, 08:26:40 pm
His 2nd of the season, WOW!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 03, 2015, 08:33:34 pm
And the second of the season against the Mets, though this time it was by someone you wouldn't be surprised to see such a game from.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 03, 2015, 08:34:08 pm
No hits, no walks. Only baserunner was on throwing error in 6th inning by Yunel Escobar.

Guessing Escobar feels lousy about that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 09:08:00 pm
Marte with a 1 out HBP in the 9th against Chapman.  Morse up.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 09:09:01 pm
Morse Ks.  2 outs.

Cervelli is the last hope for the Pirates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 09:11:42 pm
Reds win! 

Playing for home field advantage tomorrow.  Too bad the Cubs couldn't pull out one more against the Pirates this year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 03, 2015, 09:14:27 pm
Good thing the Pirates didn't pull out one more against us.  Or against anybody.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 03, 2015, 09:20:17 pm
I don't mind playing that game on the road at all.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 03, 2015, 09:25:18 pm
Forget games against the Pirates. Cubs don't blow the two games to the Cardinals they'd have second sewn up and be one back of St. Louis in the loss column.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 03, 2015, 09:43:48 pm
Forget games against the Pirates. Cubs don't blow the two games to the Cardinals they'd have second sewn up and be one back of St. Louis in the loss column.
+1
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 03, 2015, 11:18:08 pm
Another great start for Grienke. Think he needed a very poor one. Somehow, Arrieta's probably not going to win the Cy Young or make the All-Star team.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 04, 2015, 12:02:19 am
Another great start for Grienke. Think he needed a very poor one. Somehow, Arrieta's probably not going to win the Cy Young or make the All-Star team.

If he ends up with a ring, neither of those will bother him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 02:44:53 am
So, Scherzer strikes out 17 Mets in his no-hitter today.

But, amazingly, Nats struck out 18 times.

New all-time K record of 35 Ks in 9-inning game for two teams.

Further, was part of a doubleheader--- 59 combined Ks in doubleheader today, also a record.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 04:05:29 am
Who should Astros and their fans root for in Sunday's Rangers/Angels game?

Astros are game behind Rangers for the division and game ahead of Angels for second wild card.

Of course, if Astros can win, root for Angels to beat Rangers. Tie for first.

But, if Astros lose, Angels beating Rangers forces Astros into tiebreaker game with Angels for second wild card.

Games start at same time.
 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: OkieCubsFan on October 04, 2015, 08:38:13 am
Another great start for Grienke. Think he needed a very poor one. Somehow, Arrieta's probably not going to win the Cy Young or make the All-Star team.

Disagree.  Voters tend to favor wins when all else is equal.  They shouldn't, but they do. 

Combine the wins with Arrieta's historic 2nd half and the no-hitter, and I think he'll take it home.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 04, 2015, 09:16:41 am
Well, it's only one example, but they gave it to Felix Hernandez in a year he went 13-12.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 04, 2015, 10:10:05 am
One thing I wish they would take into account is quality of opposition. 27% (9) of Arrieta's starts have been against the the Cardinals and Pirates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 04, 2015, 10:20:03 am
Yep, I saw something on Twitter a week or so ago that showed that Arrieta had 3-4 more starts vs. .500+ teams than both Greinke and Kershaw...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 04, 2015, 10:25:47 am
Yep, I saw something on Twitter a week or so ago that showed that Arrieta had 3-4 more starts vs. .500+ teams than both Greinke and Kershaw...
Undoubtedly mostly due to the NL Central being a lot stronger than the NL West.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 04, 2015, 10:41:58 am
Greinke and Kershaw get more hype.  Arrieta's best hope is that the morons who vote for Greinke and Kershaw split their #1 votes.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 04, 2015, 12:10:38 pm
I don't think it would affect Kershaw's results, but Greinke has had some BABIP luck this year and against better teams that might not be as big of a help. Just for Reb, so I don't have to hear about how I think Greinke sucks (although he is another pitcher I wouldn't want the Cubs to sign) this is just in reference to the 3 pitchers named in this post. Greinke is a very good pitcher, a TORP.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 04, 2015, 12:30:20 pm
Giants signed the Martinez, Cuban OF, for $2.5 million.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 04, 2015, 02:32:45 pm
Well, it's only one example, but they gave it to Felix Hernandez in a year he went 13-12.

Greinke and Kershaw get more hype.  Arrieta's best hope is that the morons who vote for Greinke and Kershaw split their #1 votes.

One of the reasons Hernandez won with a 12-13 season was that his ERA was half a run better than Price, who finished 2nd but had 19 wins, more than 50 points back, and almost a full run ahead of Sabathia who led the league with 21 wins, and ended up just another 10 points behind Price.  So Price and Sabathia split votes of the 7 traditionalists who voted for someone with a lot of wins, and Hernandez got 21 first place votes from folks who were not so concerned with win totals when the ERA was so widely different between the ERA leader and the guys with nice win totals.

This year Arrieta is the win leader and is less than a tenth of a run behind Grienke, who is likely to split with Kershaw some of the vote of those inclined to support an LA team.  It would seem to look pretty good for Arrieta.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 04, 2015, 04:31:39 pm
Ichiro Suzuki has come in to pitch the 8th inning against Philadelphia.

He was a very talented pitcher as a schoolboy and pitched several times in blowouts in Japan (and exhibitions).  I like the Phillies but I hope Ichiro sets them down in order.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 04, 2015, 05:24:32 pm
Cardinals get swept by the Braves, finish three games ahead of the Cubs.

The two games the Cubs all but handed the Cardinals the last month were a 4-game swing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 04, 2015, 05:48:05 pm
Yeah, that's definitely a prime take away from this season.   ;)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 04, 2015, 05:59:46 pm
Yeah, that's definitely a prime take away from this season.   ;)

While perhaps it shouldn't be a prime take away, I would be surprised if Maddon did not mention it at some time in spring training or when the Cubs are facing the Cards next season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 04, 2015, 06:16:01 pm
That they could've, perhaps should've, won the division? Seems pretty big to me. Cubs were basically one hit and 9 outs away even though I heard folks say the losses to the Cardinals weren't important because the Cubs weren't going to win the division anyway. Turns out they might have.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: OkieCubsFan on October 04, 2015, 07:14:49 pm
Well, it's only one example, but they gave it to Felix Hernandez in a year he went 13-12.

His ERA was also 0.45 runs lower than the next pitcher who threw 200 innings, or an ERA+ or 30 points better  Hernandez threw more innings than anyone else that year by 12 IP, and was 1 K short of leading the league.  As I said, "all else being equal..."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 10:09:42 pm
That they could've, perhaps should've, won the division? Seems pretty big to me. Cubs were basically one hit and 9 outs away even though I heard folks say the losses to the Cardinals weren't important because the Cubs weren't going to win the division anyway. Turns out they might have.

If you're going to translate some tough losses into wins, then you really should transfer some of the tough wins into losses too. 

This is what happens in a 162 game season. Tough wins; tough losses. Think Cubs had more than our share of tough wins. Cubs outperformed Pythagorian by 7 wins.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 04, 2015, 11:44:00 pm
But the tough wins aren't worth discussing.  The tough losses are what count.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on October 04, 2015, 11:50:57 pm
Plus the Cards just might have tried just a little harder in their final series against the Braves.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 05, 2015, 12:22:49 am
Not referring to tough wins or losses. Talking about games they all but had in the bag and gave away heads up with St. Louis.  Could've included the Philly game with the 5 unearned runs after the Rizzo error and two outs. And if I ever brought up that the Cubs were theoretically the luckiest team in baseball based on run differential people would've had conniptions.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 05, 2015, 12:25:06 am
If you get to play the "what if" game, then so does everyone else.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 05, 2015, 12:34:44 am
It's strange that I'm the one suggesting the Cubs could've/should've won the division and had the best record overall while getting push-back for it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 05, 2015, 12:50:33 am
All I'm saying is that every team in MLB has "what if" games. Win some. Lose some. Hope you win more than you lose. This is the essence of the 162 game baseball season. Totally predictable that will have some games like that in 162 games and good chance a game or two will be against prime rival(s). One of things that make the season fun, especially when win 97 games. Not worth the lament. Time to look ahead.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 05, 2015, 12:55:17 am
Orioles Chris Davis finishes season with 208 Ks....and .923 OPS and 47 homers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: buff on October 05, 2015, 06:14:10 am
Too many k's
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 05, 2015, 07:43:08 am
That they could've, perhaps should've, won the division? Seems pretty big to me. Cubs were basically one hit and 9 outs away even though I heard folks say the losses to the Cardinals weren't important because the Cubs weren't going to win the division anyway. Turns out they might have.
I'm with Chris on this one, but I think our perspective is mitigated by our living in Cardinal territory. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on October 05, 2015, 07:46:11 am
I'm with Chris on this one, but I think our perspective is mitigated by our living in Cardinal territory. 

Yep.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 05, 2015, 07:47:02 am
It's strange that I'm the one suggesting the Cubs could've/should've won the division and had the best record overall while getting push-back for it.

Chris, if you really want to understand the reaction to this, it's because it appears that you are managing to find a way to be negative about what has been an extraordinarily positive and enjoyable season, just as they have exceeded all expectations.

I think we all get that years of disappointment can make one jaded. But in a season and at a time when even jbn is unabashedly celebratory, you manage to pour a little cold water on things.  Or at least that's how it comes off.  I say this not to so much to be critical, but to try to help you explain something you don't seem to realize.  Maybe you just need to find a different way of saying things like this, or pick a better time. If you care about how people take such comments.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 05, 2015, 08:11:55 am
Eh, people are always trying to find some underlying meaning in my comments.

My issue is that in spite of a great year the Cubs are still in the precarious position of being knocked out in a coin flip against a great home team, a situation they likely could've avoided but for a few costly giveaways. The notion that those games work out both ways really isn't true. Go game by game through the Cardinal series and you'll find the Cubs basically blew four games while the Cardinals didn't blow any. It's frustrating that the Cubs could've been waiting at Wrigley for the winner of the WC with Arrieta set to go twice.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 05, 2015, 08:18:01 am
Then again, they wouldn't be the Cubs if they weren't doing it the hard way. So maybe this is the way things were meant to be.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on October 05, 2015, 08:46:36 am
Chris, I think Cubs blowing more games than Cards this season is largely due to inexperience, individually and as a team. 

Players and teams seem to have to learn how to grind out wins, particularly vs teams who already have internalized that formula. 

Cubs learned how to get their swagger on the second half of this regular season...I'll hope there's no playoff learning curve for us, but there might be.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 05, 2015, 08:47:37 am
I grew up reading a sportswriter who was lampooned for how his columns often fit a pattern.

One of the things he was known for was that any stud athlete whose parents once stayed overnight in a local hotel was homegrown and should therefore be heavily recruited.

Another was citing how many tickets could have been sold if the capacity of the stadium was only bigger.

He often thought the local team would have a hard time winning unless they got certain breaks.     These rules had names.  This one was called "setting up the loss".  That's what is happening here.       
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 05, 2015, 09:58:22 am
Read this on Twitter over the weekend...not sure if it's accurate or not, but found it interesting...

This season, Albert Pujols became the first player to hit 40 HR in a single season while OPS'ing under .800.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 05, 2015, 12:24:47 pm
CC Sabathia has checked himself in to rehab for alcohol, and will return to the Yankees next season...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on October 05, 2015, 12:25:21 pm
Matt Williams and entire staff have been let go.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 05, 2015, 12:30:34 pm
Matt Williams and entire staff have been let go.
Shocker.  Hope Theocracy tries to get him and let this Maddon loser go.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 05, 2015, 01:09:11 pm
It appears throwing 772 pitches in 9 days isn't a great idea for teenagers.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/high-school/tomohiro-anraku-threw-772-pitches-9-days-returns-npb-debut/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 05, 2015, 08:17:53 pm
Stolen from Twitter...

@Ryan_Davis17: If Josh Donaldson wins the AL MVP, he's the first drafted/originally signed Cub since Ernie Banks in 1959 to win an MVP
Title: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 05, 2015, 08:21:30 pm
Also stolen...

@dianagram: #Phillies are 1st team to have NO pitcher with at least 7 wins in a season, as per @baseball_ref

Amazingly, Hamels led the Phils in wins, and then won more games with another team that same season...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 05, 2015, 11:30:46 pm
Dave, correct that ignoramus: the 20-134 Cleveland Spiders of 1899 couldn't get more than 4 wins from any one pitcher:  http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLV/1899.shtml
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 05, 2015, 11:49:37 pm
Think that was in reference to modern era of baseball---20th century--and most records and landmarks based on modern era.

Will find lots of weird baseball stuff 19th century.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 06, 2015, 01:18:35 pm
Matt Harvey missed a mandatory work out today.  He's probably going to be traded this offseason, especially if the Mets don't go deep in the playoffs and his performance is part of the reason why.  I think we're going to hear a lot of rumors about him going to the Cubs for Baez and a prospect or two this offseason.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on October 06, 2015, 01:34:09 pm
Matt Harvey missed a mandatory work out today.  He's probably going to be traded this offseason, especially if the Mets don't go deep in the playoffs and his performance is part of the reason why.  I think we're going to hear a lot of rumors about him going to the Cubs for Baez and a prospect or two this offseason.
I'd love to have Matt Harvey in our rotation next year but still not sure I am willing to give up Baez. I think Maddon will use Baez next year in a multi position role and I think Baez will respond favorably to this role. What about Pierce Johnson, Castro and Eloy JImenez? I don't want to get rid of Eloy but he might be something the Mets would like
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 06, 2015, 01:46:17 pm
If all it took was Baez + to get Matt Harvey Theo and Jed wouldnt hesitate.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 06, 2015, 03:13:58 pm
Think that was in reference to modern era of baseball---20th century--and most records and landmarks based on modern era.

Will find lots of weird baseball stuff 19th century.
Yeah, Davep was telling me about some of the games he went to.  Since I was just a boy, it was nice to hear stories from an old timer.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 06, 2015, 06:17:10 pm
Jerry Crasnick has a scoop on CY Young vote that was completed on Monday.

Sources:  Greinke Finishes Ninth in Cy Young Vote

By Jerry Crasnick  ESPN.com Senior Baseball Writer

Sources have informed ESPN that National League Cy Young co-favorite Zack Greinke has finished a shocking ninth in voting completed on Monday.  What seems to have occurred is that Cy Young voters have entirely discounted Earned Run Average (ERA) in casting their ballots.  One source told ESPN that ERA is "unworthy of consideration" because the voters concluded that it is a flawed stat. Instead of ERA, voters relied almost entirely on xFIP, SIERA, and xFIP-{minus}. Using those metrics, Greinke's 2015 season is almost identical to Chicago Cubs #4 starter Kyle Hendricks. One source told ESPN that "if Greinke is hardly better than Kyle Hendricks in 2015, the voters could not possibly award him the CY Young or take him seriously." ESPN examined these statistics and they show Greinke and Hendricks are extremely close, with Greinke leading 83-84 in xFIP- and 3.25-3.22 in xFIP, and 3.37-3.27 SIERA. ESPN is unaware of the actual winner of the Cy Young vote or the order of finish, other than as to Greinke.

Greinke received only two votes in the ballots of 30 BBWA writers, who each vote for a top 5.  One of those who voted for Greinke was 102-year old beat writer Dave Pohld of the Springfield (OH) Times, who invented the term "old school" for some of his older colleagues in 1953. Pohld placed Greinke second on his ballot behind Warren Spahn. The second vote for Greinke was cast by Reb Russell of the Bradenton Post-Dispatch, who placed Greinke fourth, just ahead of Kyle Hendricks.

According to these sources, the BBWA are also seriously considering changing certain categories for 2016, including changing the MVP category to MLMVPNS (Most Likely MVP Next Season). "The advanced metrics are so much better in predicting future seasons that it may be advisable to just forget about actual performance in a given season and instead focus on future probabilities," said one source. This might also improve sample size. "Who cares about this season if we can better project NEXT season," said the source.

The National League Cy Young vote will be announced on November 10. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on October 06, 2015, 06:56:40 pm
Genius.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: buff on October 06, 2015, 07:15:28 pm
I think they would want a package around Castro and Soler especially if they cant sign Cepedes
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 06, 2015, 07:21:33 pm
Lol

That's all Ill say.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on October 06, 2015, 07:48:05 pm
I think they would want a package around Castro and Soler especially if they cant sign Cepedes

For Harvey? wow... thats a really cheap price for a top 5 in MLB starter... If you want 3 years of harvey, some team is going to have to give up 12-18 years of cost controlled MLB talent... not market rate SS and Soler.

For harvey, it will cost Russel or Schwarber + some minor league pieces...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 06, 2015, 08:26:58 pm
Zero chance he brings back a Russell or Schwarber talent.  Russell was worth 3 fWAR on defense alone and he has significant offensive upside and 6 years of control. Schwarber was worth 2 fWAR in 69 games and has 6 years of control left. I wouldn't trade either one straight up for 3 years of Harvey. Sale is likely the only pitcher that has enough surplus value to get either Russell or Schwarber in a trade.

 A big if, but if the Mets viewed Castro as a 3 WAR SS then Soler and Castro isn't that far off in value for Harvey. I doubt they view Castro in that way. The only way the Mets would get that much control for Harvey is to take prospects. I doubt they want to trade him for prospects.

I think you could also make the case that Harvey is no longer the best pitcher on his team, let alone a top five pitcher in the league. This is coming from somebody that hates DeGrom according to some on this board.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 06, 2015, 08:32:38 pm
Interesting that most of the ads on ESPN are self-promoting.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 06, 2015, 08:56:58 pm

...I think you could also make the case that Harvey is no longer the best pitcher on his team, let alone a top five pitcher in the league. This is coming from somebody that hates DeGrom according to some on this board.

Well, deGrom way better than Zach Greinke this season in xFIP, SIERA, and xFIP- Naturally, now deGrom is awesome.

By the way, would you agree that Kyle Hendricks pretty much just as good as Greinke this season?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 06, 2015, 09:39:48 pm
Weird how DeGrom's xFIP, SIERA, FIP stayed pretty much the same to when I hated him.  I wasn't aware that I compared DeGrom to Grienke, I thought I compared DeGrom to Harvey. I guess this means I hate Harvey now too?  It's tough keeping up with what you think I'm saying. When I say Harvey isn't a top 5 pitcher that doesn't mean I think he sucks. When I say that Grienke isn't as good as Arriet and Kerahaw this year it doesn't mean I think he sucks either.

Greinke is a better pitcher than Hendricks. I think Greinke outperformed his true talent and Hendricks underperformed. So Grinke will likely have worse stats next year and Hendricks will be better when comparing to this year (If Hendricks keeps the K's). Ignoring the cost and age I would rather have Greinke pitching for the Cubs.  Because despite what you think I do look at more than just xFIP.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 06, 2015, 09:51:11 pm
Nobody is talking about "true talent." That's scouting talk. And don't care about 2016 right now. That's next year.

We're talking about 2015 performance. PERFORMANCE.

So, given hardly any difference in xFIP, SIERA, and xFIP- between Hendricks and Greinke, we should conclude that Greinke and Hendricks PERFORMED about the same in 2015, right?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 06, 2015, 10:01:14 pm
Then you don't understand how I use those stats.

I answered your question though, Greinke.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 06, 2015, 10:06:18 pm
Why Greinke? Explain.

Your three favorite pitcher stats show a miniscule difference between Greinke and Hendricks. How do you explain that?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 06, 2015, 10:33:02 pm
You are dense sometimes.

xFIP, SIERA are better PREDICTIVE stats. Being a better PREDICITIVE stat means looking at the FUTURE.

FIP would be a better DESCRIPTIVE stat. DESCRIPTIVE stats tell you what happened THIS year.  DRA would be another DESCRIPTIVE stat with some PREDICITIVE value. RA/9 would be a much better stat than ERA. All of these stats heavily favor Greinke.

I care more about the future when I'm talking about pitchers.  So the stats you are mentioning are better at being PREDICITVE than DESCRIPTIVE.  Hence you don't understand how I use them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on October 06, 2015, 11:13:16 pm
Zero chance he brings back a Russell or Schwarber talent.  Russell was worth 3 fWAR on defense alone and he has significant offensive upside and 6 years of control. Schwarber was worth 2 fWAR in 69 games and has 6 years of control left. I wouldn't trade either one straight up for 3 years of Harvey. Sale is likely the only pitcher that has enough surplus value to get either Russell or Schwarber in a trade.

 A big if, but if the Mets viewed Castro as a 3 WAR SS then Soler and Castro isn't that far off in value for Harvey. I doubt they view Castro in that way. The only way the Mets would get that much control for Harvey is to take prospects. I doubt they want to trade him for prospects.

I think you could also make the case that Harvey is no longer the best pitcher on his team, let alone a top five pitcher in the league. This is coming from somebody that hates DeGrom according to some on this board.

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. i dont think you are being serious with the whole castro as a 3 war player thing there are you? over the last 2 seasons castro has been worth 3.6 war... there isnt much surplus value in that contract.

Harvey profiles to be a 6ish War pitcher for each of the next 3 years... plus a team that trades for him has a chance to sign up and lock him up for longer.

you really think something short of Russel or schawarber nets 18 war of harvey?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 06, 2015, 11:15:45 pm
If wishes were hores beggars would ride. i dont think you are being serious with the whole castro as a 3 war player thing there are you? over the last 2 seasons castro has been worth 3.6 war... there isnt much surplus value in that contract.

Harvey profiles to be a 6ish War pitcher for each of the next 3 years... plus a team that trades for him has a chance to sign up and lock him up for longer.

you really think something short of Russel or schawarber nets 18 war of harvey?

beggars can't afford good whores.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on October 06, 2015, 11:17:03 pm
fixed it. :)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 06, 2015, 11:47:21 pm
If wishes were horses beggars would ride. i dont think you are being serious with the whole castro as a 3 war player thing there are you? over the last 2 seasons castro has been worth 3.6 war... there isnt much surplus value in that contract.

Harvey profiles to be a 6ish War pitcher for each of the next 3 years... plus a team that trades for him has a chance to sign up and lock him up for longer.

you really think something short of Russel or schawarber nets 18 war of harvey?


1) Castro's contract is paying for about 1 1/2 WAR for the next 4 years. Plenty of surplus value in there, depending on how a ream views him. He has 3 3 fWAR seasons before age of 25. It isn't impossible he does it.

2) Harvey isn't a lock to average 6 WAR for the next 3 years. Even if he does it will be his most expensive 3 years, decreasing the value.  He could cost $32 million over that time. Schwarber/Russell may cost the same or less over 6 years.

3) Just for the sake of your point, lets grant that Harvey will produce 18 WAR. Russell with below average offense produces that for 6 years and everyone is projecting his offense to improve. Schwarber would be a roughly 5 WAR player this year over full year. Are you suggesting the Cubs should trade between 18-36 WAR over 6 years for Harvey?  No team would do it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on October 06, 2015, 11:47:57 pm
Not sure what difference between fwar and fangrpahs war is... but fg shoW's addison as 2.9 war total for the rear in 142 games....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 06, 2015, 11:49:02 pm
You are dense sometimes.

xFIP, SIERA are better PREDICTIVE stats. Being a better PREDICITIVE stat means looking at the FUTURE.

FIP would be a better DESCRIPTIVE stat. DESCRIPTIVE stats tell you what happened THIS year.  DRA would be another DESCRIPTIVE stat with some PREDICITIVE value. RA/9 would be a much better stat than ERA. All of these stats heavily favor Greinke.

I care more about the future when I'm talking about pitchers.  So the stats you are mentioning are better at being PREDICITVE than DESCRIPTIVE.  Hence you don't understand how I use them.

Listen to yourself.  You know that these are all descriptive stats but, when it suits you, you portray them simply as predictive stats. Yes, perhaps they are BETTER predictive stats than ERA and the like but they are not simply predictive stats.  They purport to be better performance measurements too.

Here is what Fangraphs says about x-FIP compared to FIP:

xFIP strips out some of this fluctuation to give you a better view of how well we think a pitcher pitched over a given period of time, while controlling for defense, batted ball luck, and sequencing, and also HR/FB%. In other words, we use xFIP to see how a pitcher might be expected to perform given an average HR/FB% because we do not expect pitchers to have much control over that number. In other words, x-FIP is simply an enhanced version of FIP that adjusts for HR rate.  To quote Fangraphs, xFIP is "how well we think a pitcher pitched over a given period of time." 

Plainlly, that is designed to be descriptive of performance---be a better stat(s) to measure true performance.  Let's call it BETTER predictive, yes, but it purports to measure how well a pitcher pitched over a given period of time. That's what they say. Go to Las Vegas if you are only interested in using these stats as predictive. You need some balance here, let me suggest.

xFIP minus simply adjusts for league average on a 100 scale, like OPS+ does, as you know.  Same deal as above re xFIP.  That is why you cited xFIP minus when you claimed that Fister did not have a career year in 2014.  Allegedly relevant to describing his 2014 season, so you said.

This is the definition of SIERA:   "Skill-Interactive Earned Run Average {SIERA} estimates ERA through walk rate, strikeout rate and ground ball rate, eliminating the effects of park, defense and luck. SIERA accounts for how run prevention improves as ground ball rate increases and declines as more whiffs are accrued, while grounders are of more materiality for those who allow a surplus of runners." In other words, it purports to be a better version of ERA.  Descriptive, not just predictive.

Don't know why you weasel around the obvious.  Cite stuff as black and white when it suits you; ignore when it doesn't. 

You should just say that under these stats Hendricks pitched as well--performed--as Greinke in 2015, as Fangraphs would say, "over a given period of time."  In this case, the 2015 season.  Of course, you are too embarrassed to say that. Doesn't jive with common sense.  Now, you say just predictive, folks.  Baloney.

I know you are not saying that Hendricks is as talented as Greinke nor saying that in PREDICTIVE terms will be as good in 2016. But, you should fess up and admit that these stats claim that their 2015 performance was basically identical in terms of "how well we think a pitcher pitched" {Fangraphs citation again} in 2015.

Yes, ERA has a luck factor.  Baseball has a luck factor. I want to know what luck produced. I want to know how to compensate for luck. That's what newer stats purport to do.  Great idea.

Game on: Very Hard hit groundball directly at the SS--double play. Good luck for the pitcher.  Soft hit grounder-seeing eye 2-RBI single in the hole.  Bad luck for the pitcher.  We don't say, nice job for inducing the soft grounder. No, we say nice job for inducing the DP.  That's baseball.  I use ERA and x-FIP and FIP.  I don't say ERA is unworthy of consideration, as you did when you said you "discount" ERA.  That's just narrow-minded and too dumb for a smart guy like you.   
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 07, 2015, 03:01:27 am
Most Defensive Runs Saved in 2015

Includes all positions.

Player           DRS

Kevin Kiermaier   42

Ender Inciarte   29

Andrelton Simmons   25

Starling Marte   24

Jason Heyward   24
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 07, 2015, 10:24:06 am
Here is what Fangraphs says about x-FIP compared to FIP:

xFIP strips out some of this fluctuation to give you a better view of how well we think a pitcher pitched over a given period of time, while controlling for defense, batted ball luck, and sequencing, and also HR/FB%. In other words, we use xFIP to see how a pitcher might be expected to perform given an average HR/FB% because we do not expect pitchers to have much control over that number. In other words, x-FIP is simply an enhanced version of FIP that adjusts for HR rate.  To quote Fangraphs, xFIP is "how well we think a pitcher pitched over a given period of time." 

Here's what you left out from the top of the article.  "WHILE IT IS NOT A COMPLETE ACCOUTING OF PITCHER PERFORMANCE"  "They gave up the home runs so they count against them, but xFIP suggests they probably won’t continue to do so in the future."  Under the title how to use xFIP  " You can think of it as a very basic forecast,"  "In a very simple sense, FIP tells you how a pitcher has performed (value) independent of their defense while xFIP tells you about how well he has pitched (ability, talent) independent of their defense."" While xFIP is usually more predictive of future performance, there are reasons why a pitcher might not be expected to pitch to that particular xFIP."

That doesn't sound like a very good descriptive stat.

SIERA "In and of itself, SIERA works as well as many projection systems in terms of predicting a player’s future ERA"  "Like it’s predecessors FIP and xFIP, SIERA attempts to answer the question: what is the underlying skill level of this pitcher? How well did they actually pitch over the past year? Should their ERA have been higher, lower, or was it about right?"
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on October 07, 2015, 01:23:23 pm
Mets probably aren't going to be interested in all prospects in a Harvey deal...but since we don't have a stud pitching prospect that is ready to contribute on the ML level, I guess thats why I was more prospect heavy on my earlier post. Maybe toss Hendricks in the deal???
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 07, 2015, 02:14:15 pm
How many times do I have to say that these purport to be stats better predictive of the future.

But, primarily they purport to be better descriptive of present performance. Didn't leave anything out in my citations. You know that.

You try to say not descriptive in first place, which is flat wrong.

I think it's useful to have stats that purport to take out the luck element of baseball. But, we have to use them side-by-side with stats that measure performance results with the luck included. Using luck-free stats exclusively is too much fantasy. Treating ERA as entirely unworthy of consideration is fantasy time. WAR /RA-9 have flaws too. rWAR and fWAR, generally, can get you very different results.

Greinke and Hendricks were not virtually identical performers in 2015. Stats discussed preciously, such as xFIP, say they were. That is fantasy. We all know that. Better to look at the big picture.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 07, 2015, 03:44:28 pm
You asked how I use them.  Can you give me 1 single post where I claimed X pitcher is better because their xFIP is lower.  EVERYTIME I bring up xFIP it is in relation to FUTURE performance.

rWAR and fWAR have different results because they look at different things.  I think I've mentioned this multiple times.  In case you forgot, rWAR relates better to actual WIN totals for pitchers.  fWAR is better for future performance.  Every stat has flaws.  Some have less flaws than others.

I NEVER, EVER SAID Greinke and Hendricks are identical performers.  I don't think a SINGLE PERSON except you has suggested such a thing.

I don't just look at one stat.  I never have.  I look at whole range of things, like stats, velocities, pitches, GB%, and actual games.  You just can't seem to wrap you head around that fact.  I even do look at ERA.  I understand the flaws that it entails and give it its appropriate weight. 

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 07, 2015, 03:56:37 pm
No, you never said Greinke and Hendricks were similar performers.  Only the stats that you often rely on say that.  When that kind of thing happens, you claim those stats are merely predictive, not descriptive of present performance. Seems like you now have abandoned that view.

You used x-FIP- to argue that Fister did not have a career year in 2014, as one example. You can couch that in futuro if you want but know what you are actually doing.  Not a matter of who's "better" but of actual performance.  You distorted purposes of these stats in above posts. If using them as predictive only, maybe just stick with them during off-season.  Fine with that. Go predict the future.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 07, 2015, 04:51:23 pm
You have serious reading comprehension issues.

The thread starts at 1194 in the Cubs 15 topic.  I never use xFIP or FIP when discussing why I didn't like Fister's 2014 season.  The only time I discuss xFIP- is when you are using xFIP incorrectly.  The entire discussion was about signing Fister in the future.............sigh.

Enjoy the playoff game, I'm done.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 07, 2015, 05:24:23 pm
The revisionism continues from you.

Only about the Fister future?  This is what you said about Fister 2014:  "he outperformed his peripherals a lot in 2014. That is when the decline started."  Then, I chimed in and said 2014 was probably his career season.  Regarding 2014, you then responded "there was nothing to like about his 2014 season except for his ERA." And, there was xFIP- from you later, as you just conceded.

So, obviously, you were talking about his 2014 season too.  Not just about predictive stuff.  Yes, you are obsessed with predicting the future. Get that. But, I was pointing out your silliness about Fister 2014. You drop this kind of foolishness all the time and I responded to that particular foolishness. Never said that I wanted Cubs to sign Fister in the future--only that some clubs would be interested in him and then discussed Fister 2014.  We already had Fister 2015 data for future projection.  Obviously, 2014 not all that significant anymore for predictive purposes. Talking about what 2014 meant for 2014.

Keep hoping you will find some kind of balance in your approach. A losing proposition.

Go Cubs in 2015.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 07, 2015, 07:34:39 pm
The revisionism continues from you.

Only about the Fister future?  This is what you said about Fister 2014:  "he outperformed his peripherals a lot in 2014. That is when the decline started."  Then, I chimed in and said 2014 was probably his career season.  Regarding 2014, you then responded "there was nothing to like about his 2014 season except for his ERA." And, there was xFIP- from you later, as you just conceded.


When you go looking for a decline, your looking for future performance no?  Peripherals include more than FIP/xFIP. In the second post you reference I mentioned the peripherals I was talking about and xFIP wasn't included. Just put me on ignore if I bug you that much. I'm not going to change the way I post or what I'm interested to please you.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on October 07, 2015, 10:43:51 pm
1) Castro's contract is paying for about 1 1/2 WAR for the next 4 years. Plenty of surplus value in there, depending on how a ream views him. He has 3 3 fWAR seasons before age of 25. It isn't impossible he does it.

2) Harvey isn't a lock to average 6 WAR for the next 3 years. Even if he does it will be his most expensive 3 years, decreasing the value.  He could cost $32 million over that time. Schwarber/Russell may cost the same or less over 6 years.

3) Just for the sake of your point, lets grant that Harvey will produce 18 WAR. Russell with below average offense produces that for 6 years and everyone is projecting his offense to improve. Schwarber would be a roughly 5 WAR player this year over full year. Are you suggesting the Cubs should trade between 18-36 WAR over 6 years for Harvey?  No team would do it.

18 to 36 war??? wow... you are nuts. So Russel is going to be better then barry larkin over the next 6 years? and Schwarber is going to out produce Posey?

Maybe both turn into Starlin Castro... fantastic for a year and then show no ability to adjust. No team is crazy for trading for Harvey... Elite players cost a lot... there is something to be said for being able to get a player with 7+ war potential... and apparently you are drastically discounting it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 07, 2015, 11:16:39 pm
Russell at his current offense is would be 18 WAR over 6 years.  I think there is a lot more in his bat.  Schwarber prorated over a full year is worth 5 WAR or 30 over 6. He might get better.

He is now a 7 WAR pitcher?  Last time the Cubs traded for one of those they gave up Scott Feldman. Young prearb hitters don't get traded, unless you are Billy Beane. Harvey is very talented, but he is currently destroying value, has had a TJS and is about to get expensive in 1 year.  If Harvey gets you gets you 18 WAR OVER 3 years you are likely paying him $32 million.  At $8/WAR that is a surplus value of 14 WAR. I think there is a pretty decent chance that Russell or Schwarber will blow past for a total of $1.5 million. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 07, 2015, 11:31:39 pm
You are dense sometimes.

xFIP, SIERA are better PREDICTIVE stats. Being a better PREDICITIVE stat means looking at the FUTURE.

FIP would be a better DESCRIPTIVE stat. DESCRIPTIVE stats tell you what happened THIS year.  DRA would be another DESCRIPTIVE stat with some PREDICITIVE value. RA/9 would be a much better stat than ERA. All of these stats heavily favor Greinke.

I care more about the future when I'm talking about pitchers.  So the stats you are mentioning are better at being PREDICITVE than DESCRIPTIVE.  Hence you don't understand how I use them.

Boy this looks familiar....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: buff on October 08, 2015, 06:10:57 am
Why does everything said on this site anymore have to be backed up with undisputed evidence and stats?  I miss the old days when it was just a bunch of guys and a couple ladies talking baseball and we didnt have to have everything backed up by 3 sources.  Im going back into scroll and lurk mode I dont have time to write a thesis on a potential trade or anything else.

Oh and my post isaid I would start with Soler and Castro I never said that is all it would take good bye
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 08, 2015, 07:57:00 am
Boy this looks familiar....

Didn't you lose a bet? 

My name is Jes Beard and I know nothing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 08, 2015, 08:41:20 am
Why does everything said on this site anymore have to be backed up with undisputed evidence and stats?  I miss the old days when it was just a bunch of guys and a couple ladies talking baseball and we didnt have to have everything backed up by 3 sources.  Im going back into scroll and lurk mode I dont have time to write a thesis on a potential trade or anything else.

Oh and my post isaid I would start with Soler and Castro I never said that is all it would take good bye
Truer words were never spoken.  This place can be extremely hard to deal with at times.  What gets me the most is how so many things have to be 100% one way or the other with never an in between.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 08, 2015, 09:04:53 am
I agree 100%.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 08, 2015, 09:07:07 am
I'm ambivalent.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 08, 2015, 09:11:05 am
Truer words were never spoken.  This place can be extremely hard to deal with at times.  What gets me the most is how so many things have to be 100% one way or the other with never an in between.
Can you back that up with xFip?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 08, 2015, 09:11:33 am
I'm ambivalent.
So you can use either hand.  Big deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on October 08, 2015, 11:14:26 am
You are not alone Buff, it seems like people are trying to win a pissing contest instead of just talking baseball.  Good grief a couple of diatribes were even posted during the game tonight. I repeat DURING THE FREAKING GAME.   The Farm topic is barely readable any more.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 08, 2015, 11:37:36 am
This place has always been that way.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on October 08, 2015, 01:11:05 pm
So you can use either hand.  Big deal.
THIS NEEDS TO BE IN UNDER THE BLEACHERS
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 08, 2015, 03:53:59 pm
When you go looking for a decline, your looking for future performance no?  Peripherals include more than FIP/xFIP. In the second post you reference I mentioned the peripherals I was talking about and xFIP wasn't included. Just put me on ignore if I bug you that much. I'm not going to change the way I post or what I'm interested to please you.

Way too interesting and smart to put on Ignore. 

Here's a stab at bigger picture and some history--and I will put your personal preferences aside---as you wish. This will bore some of you--just scroll if you wish.

First baseball statistician that I recall was Allan Roth, who worked for Dodgers--starting in 1950s, I think. Another Branch Rickey innovation.  Vin Scully used to refer to Roth's work a lot on Dodgers broadcasts.  First heard term "on base percentage" in maybe 1959 from Scully, a stat you couldn't find anywhere until many years later.  In the mid-1960s a guy named Earnshaw Cook wrote a stats book (Percentage Baseball) that was mostly wrong about everything but I waded through that, understood maybe 10%, and a few things the guy said didn't seem right but were interesting.  Then, came Bill James in late 1970s with his Abstracts, the first few of which were typed and mimeographed and mailed to folks who responded to an ad in the Sporting News, Pete Palmer (Hidden Game of Baseball), Craig Wright (Diamond Appaised) and then a bevy of non-stop sabermetric work, some great, some interesting, and some nonsense.

At some point, folks started wondering about the luck factor in baseball--the McCracken study. But, the roots of that go back to much of the previous work above, seeking to find objective measurements. What to do with luck/random chance, something we all know is inherent in baseball and sometimes breaks our hearts.  Last night, the hard DP grounder by Marte was a crucial DP turned by Russell/Castro but could easily have been a two-run single that changed the whole complexion of game. A few feet hit to the left or to the right--all the shutout stats talked about today about Arrieta--- out the window.  Maybe Cubs still win--who knows.  Luck mostly, I think, on that batted ball. Good work by the defense but that depended on location of the batted ball. Of course, this happens everyday during the season.

xFIP, FIP, xFIP- and a bunch of other modern stats, that's what they do: take out the reality of what happened--the luck/random chance factor--and look at what pitcher "can control" aside from what actually happens to balls put in play. They are not simply predictive. They purport to tell us how well the pitcher performed, not just in the future. You can use that stuff whatever way you want, but it is designed to measure performance. Predictive accuracy is the cherry--look at us and these stats--we can better predict the future.  That is fine, but a corollary to what the stat actually purports to measure.

ERA has the sin of actually taking into account that the Arrieta pitch turned into a DP-- rather than a two-RBI ground single that kept the inning going. Yes, ERA has shortcomings but there is a reason smart baseball "insiders" and fans constantly talk about ERA. Few of these folks are knuckleheads.  Not sure I can say the same for those other folks who discount ERA and find it unworthy of consideration, not including our esteemed fellow poster--who is not a knucklehead (mostly). 

Taking out the luck/random chance element and measuring what is left---a noble effort.  Useful. Glad folks do that. We all should look at those stats.  But, ERA is important.  We care that the Marte grounder turned into a DP and assessing any player or players statistically should too. Put another way, no earned runs for Arrieta yesterday, thankfully. Go Cubs. NOT unworthy of consideration. 

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 08, 2015, 04:03:52 pm
Robinson Chirinos takes Price deep, and it's 4-1 Texas in the 5th...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 08, 2015, 04:19:06 pm
Blue Jays losing 4-2 in a game started by Price, and Donaldson was just pulled from the game for a pinch hitter.  The playoffs haven't started the way the Blue Jays envisioned.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 08, 2015, 04:19:54 pm
Donaldson pulled?  Is he hurt?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jack Birdbath on October 08, 2015, 04:23:57 pm
Donaldson pulled?  Is he hurt?

He took a knee to the head. Maybe concussed. Not good.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on October 08, 2015, 05:00:27 pm

Vin Scully underwent “a recommended medical procedure” Thursday morning and will not work the post-season:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/scully-686699-dodgers-vin.html (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/scully-686699-dodgers-vin.html)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/dodgersnow/la-sp-dn-dodgers-vin-scully-will-miss-postseason-20151008-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/dodgersnow/la-sp-dn-dodgers-vin-scully-will-miss-postseason-20151008-story.html)



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 08, 2015, 05:18:54 pm
Blue Jays have lost José Bautista as well. He left the top of the 9th with an injury they did not say what though.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 08, 2015, 05:32:49 pm
Rangers beat Blue Jays in Toronto. Price loses his sixth post-season game (out of six games).  Blue Jays face Cole Hamels tomorrow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 08, 2015, 05:36:28 pm
Big injuries in the Rangers-Blue Jays game: Donaldson & Bautista for the Blue Jays and Beltre for the Rangers.  Here's hoping the Cubs avoid any of that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 08, 2015, 05:42:16 pm
Price with 9 homers allowed in 47 career post-season innings.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 08, 2015, 06:00:56 pm
Watching Fox Sports analysis of the Rangers-Blue Jays game, which include Pete Rose.  Not a good idea. Ethics issues aside, he is from another century. Couldn't believe that Donaldson and Batista (and I guess Beltre as well) couldn't keep playing.  Apparently considered them wimps or something.  Not going to get many insights from Rose.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on October 08, 2015, 06:12:25 pm
Coupled with Harold Reynolds...you're right that's a brutal watch.   I was less than impressed with Sheffield and Dusty last night but Petey makes everything worthwhile. My favorite non-Maddux pitcher ever.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 08, 2015, 06:17:12 pm
Coupled with Harold Reynolds...you're right that's a brutal watch.   I was less than impressed with Sheffield and Dusty last night but Petey makes everything worthwhile. My favorite non-Maddux pitcher ever.
Reynolds is usually on the MLB Network with Greg Amundsen who completely turns me off.  Amundsen is always looking for controversy, something to ridicule, or a baseball tradition he has no respect for.  Unfortunately, there seems to be a segment of the population that likes that style.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 08, 2015, 06:40:51 pm
Amundsen?

I thought it was Amsinger?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 08, 2015, 06:56:45 pm
Probably autocorrected...

I'm still chuckling at Dontrelle and his David Byrne-looking suit, with extra colorful tie and pocket square...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 08, 2015, 08:15:40 pm
Amundsen?

I thought it was Amsinger?
Your'e probably right.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 08, 2015, 11:57:41 pm
Didn't you lose a bet? 

My name is Jes Beard and I know nothing.

Again, find the post where there was any agreement on the terms of the bet and share it.

You really enjoy making things up, don't you?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 09, 2015, 01:07:58 am
Just because I can't sleep 

Re: Cubs in '15 (09/14 - 08/15)
« Reply #3270 on: May 28, 2015, 09:02:24 pm »
Quote from: CUBluejays on May 27, 2015, 08:38:24 pm
The better predictive stat is xFIP and Zimmermann is 4.15 to Lester's 3.30 including today's game.

We will see.  I will note you never responded to my proposed bet as to which one of those two will do better this year.  I'm still picking Jordan.

Re: Cubs in '15 (09/14 - 08/15)
« Reply #3271 on: May 28, 2015, 09:25:28 pm »
QuoteModifyRemove
Sure I'll take Lester in this bet.  If I win you must end every post for 1 year with the phrase "I'm Jes Beard, I know nothing"  If you win, I'll end every post for 1 year with whatever phrase you want.


Re: Cubs in '15 (09/14 - 08/15)
« Reply #3272 on: May 28, 2015, 09:32:12 pm »
Quote
You are ignoring this user.
Now, for the criteria in determing the winner....

Seems to me we have a bet.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 09, 2015, 04:02:44 pm
Cueto has really gone south.  What happened to him?  Hope we don't make a play for him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 09, 2015, 04:15:09 pm
Cueto has really gone south.  What happened to him?  Hope we don't make a play for him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/McCulloughStar/status/652561729902243841
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ray on October 09, 2015, 04:15:46 pm
Cueto has really gone south.  What happened to him?  Hope we don't make a play for him.

My fault.  I acquired him in the fantasy league.  2 starts later and he's crap.  He should be good to go next year since I won't have him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on October 09, 2015, 04:27:26 pm
Weird having the Cubs in the playoffs, for lots of reasons.  (Like, 35 of my 41 years not being that way, for example.)  But it also makes me not know who to root for in other series.  For example, I would normally root for Toronto over Texas, but I think they are better than Texas (assuming the injuries aren't serious), and so if we are going to make it to the World Series (did I really just type that?), then I'd rather have Texas or Houston, than Toronto or KC.  But if it's going to be the Dodgers, Mets, or Cards (yuck, yuck, and YUCK), then I really want Toronto or KC there, both for increased chances of them winning, and way preferable players/cities/franchises/etc. 

#LifeIsComplicated
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 09, 2015, 04:48:53 pm
Cardinal fans I've talked to are nervous.  They echo what some have written here: if the Cardinals win, it really doesn't add to their mystique, but if the Cubs win, they'll have to shut the hell up for a long time.  They live to harass Cubbies.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 09, 2015, 04:50:23 pm
Texas over Toronto 6-4 in 14 innings.

In the bottom of the 14th, replays clearly showed Russell Martin moving his left elbow towards the plate so his protective guard would be hit by the pitch.  Jim Kaat said that was ok as long as his elbow did not reach the plate.  Can that possibly be correct?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 09, 2015, 08:24:42 pm
Just because I can't sleep 

Re: Cubs in '15 (09/14 - 08/15)
« Reply #3270 on: May 28, 2015, 09:02:24 pm »
Quote from: CUBluejays on May 27, 2015, 08:38:24 pm
The better predictive stat is xFIP and Zimmermann is 4.15 to Lester's 3.30 including today's game.

We will see.  I will note you never responded to my proposed bet as to which one of those two will do better this year.  I'm still picking Jordan.

Re: Cubs in '15 (09/14 - 08/15)
« Reply #3271 on: May 28, 2015, 09:25:28 pm »
QuoteModifyRemove
Sure I'll take Lester in this bet.  If I win you must end every post for 1 year with the phrase "I'm Jes Beard, I know nothing"  If you win, I'll end every post for 1 year with whatever phrase you want.


Re: Cubs in '15 (09/14 - 08/15)
« Reply #3272 on: May 28, 2015, 09:32:12 pm »
Quote
You are ignoring this user.
Now, for the criteria in determing the winner....

Seems to me we have a bet.

Seems to me we didn't, and that you expressly said you had no interest in what I proposed for the bet.  In blue is my proposal, which includes for context the part of my post quoting other posts, and after my proposal we have you expressly stating you were not interested in the bet I proposed.  I believe the next time the matter was discussed any further was when in the last day or so you claimed you had won the bet.... which had not been made.

Re: Cubs in '15 (09/14 - 08/15)
« Reply #3296 on: May 30, 2015, 05:35:48 pm
bWAR, fWAR, ERA, FIP, RA/9 some combo of stats it doesn't matter.

No creating new user names and you have to let me know the phrase. Nothing vulgar.

I simply forgot about it, or I would have taken the bet. Was it a steak bet?

I don't recall what you chose as the metric, either...

I thought it was a steak bet, and I think I suggested measuring their performance by multiplying their ERA+ by their total innings pitched.  Of course I say I THINK that is what I suggested because when I have used the search engine to try to find the post where I discussed it, I find nothing.

Regardless what I did or didn't post at that time, ERA+ times IP (regular season numbers only) is what I am proposing now.


I fine with that.  I've got no interest in a steak bet.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on October 09, 2015, 08:29:00 pm
The ump is drunk.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on October 09, 2015, 08:38:59 pm
Could you two just shut up?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 09, 2015, 08:39:39 pm
Don't take it personally, ECF.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on October 09, 2015, 08:41:23 pm
I'm not even sure I can watch this series. Which evil is lesser?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on October 09, 2015, 08:42:47 pm
Lol, wrong thread.  But I guess that shows me!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 10, 2015, 03:15:49 pm
So, Kershaw and David Price are now 2-12 in career post-season, taken together, with an ERA of 4.90.  They have given up 16 HRs in post-season in 104.2 innings.

Assuming that wins/losses and ERA are worthy of consideration in post-season, think both Kershaw and Price would say to us that they're both disappointed with their post-season performance history and hope to do better going forward. Maybe their post-season x-FIP and SIERA are better than that, I don't know, and they are consoled with that. Somebody tell them.

Still would guess that fans of any team would be very happy to have these two guys on your team in future post-season games, but this is pretty brutal history so far for two outstanding pitchers. 

Chalk that up to:  That's Baseball. Go figure."  No rational explanation.

Just think that pitchers on he other hand who, in post-season, have outperformed their terrific regular season careers deserve extra credit for that.  Koufax with his 0.95 World Series ERA is worthy of consideration for that, I think, and Smoltz who outperformed his regular season career by about .67 ERA points too.  Worthy of consideration too. Smoltz threw more than 200 post-season innings, basically equivalent to a full regular season. Koufax, in World Series alone, 57 innings. Carried Dodgers on is back to two World Championships in 1963 and 1965.  Give them extra credit. Kershaw and Price get a day of detention.

Impressed with deGrom yesterday, outperforming Kershaw.  deGrom managed to overcome his home/road splits from early this season to outpitch Kershaw on the road. Funny how really good pitchers can do this sometimes.

 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 10, 2015, 08:28:34 pm
Cespedes solo homer of Greinke, 1-0.  I'd still prefer to face the Mets in the NLCS over the Dodgers, so go Mets.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 10, 2015, 08:33:46 pm
Another homer off the great one. 2-0 Mets.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on October 10, 2015, 08:35:33 pm
Mets are really good. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 10, 2015, 08:36:06 pm
Conforto homers, 2-0.

Too bad Hendricks couldn't get one more out.  Those two homers have put me in a really good position on Fanduel today, so I could really use the extra points I would've gotten out of a Hendricks win.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 10, 2015, 09:18:00 pm
Syndergaard had 10 swinging strikes on 39 pitches. According to the MLB At Bat App he threw a 100 mph sinker to AGone. I like him. I like him a lot.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 10, 2015, 09:37:10 pm
Going back to the regular season, Yasmani Grandal is now 4 for his last 86.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 10, 2015, 10:45:39 pm
Pretty dirty slide by Utley--didn't even go into the slide until he was at second base.  Ruben Tejada is going to be taken off on a cart--some kind of leg problem.  MLB has to address this in the offseason.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 10, 2015, 10:48:59 pm
Pretty dirty slide by Utley--didn't even go into the slide until he was at second base.  Ruben Tejada is going to be taken off on a cart--some kind of leg problem.  MLB has to address this in the offseason.

Tejada left himself in the path of an oncoming runner.  I watched the play.  I had no problem with it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 10, 2015, 11:20:50 pm
Tejada fractured right fibula.  Dirty slide results in a broken leg, but it's just "part of the game."

Utley's "slide" wasn't even really a slide.  Utley should be suspended for the rest of the postseason.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on October 10, 2015, 11:23:53 pm
Agreed, br, that slide was completely inexcusable and Utley should absolutely be made an example of.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on October 10, 2015, 11:25:03 pm
Meanwhile, the commentary crew on TBS spouting garbage about how these kinds of slides always used to be a part of the game. These tools are atrocious.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 10, 2015, 11:31:27 pm
Tejada fractured right fibula.  Dirty slide results in a broken leg, but it's just "part of the game."

Utley's "slide" wasn't even really a slide.  Utley should be suspended for the rest of the postseason.

When you leave yourself in the path of an oncoming runner, and you turn your back to him to boot, bad things can happen.

If anything the Dodgers should give him a bonus.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 10, 2015, 11:35:37 pm
Utley's "slide" wasn't even really a slide.  Utley should be suspended for the rest of the postseason.

I don't think I was strong enough in this opinion.  Utley should be suspended for the rest of the postseason, plus at least 20 games next season.  Attempts to intentionally hurt other players should be taken really seriously.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 10, 2015, 11:41:35 pm
Pedro continues to be the best thing about TBS by criticizing the Utley "slide."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on October 10, 2015, 11:48:31 pm
Utley did what MLB players have been taught to do since they were young teens.  Tejada probably does the same thing if he's sliding into 2nd in that situation.

I'd like to see MLB put a rule in place to not allow that type of slide, but i can't really fault Utley...he did what most MLB guys would do in that situation.

Of course, what's also true is that Tejada put himself in harms way...no doubt an instinctive play on his part.  Really a shame.  I'll hope MLB puts a stop to that kind of slide, too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 10, 2015, 11:54:58 pm
I don't think I was strong enough in this opinion.  Utley should be suspended for the rest of the postseason, plus at least 20 games next season.  Attempts to intentionally hurt other players should be taken really seriously.

I entirely agree if it is an intentional effort to hurt another player.  I so no indication of an intent to hurt anyone.  If Utley's cleats were up, I might reach a different conclusion, but I saw no indication of intent to hurt anyone, only an intent to avoid a DP.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on October 11, 2015, 12:04:41 am
Pedro continues to be the best thing about TBS by criticizing the Utley "slide."

Easily. And every other network too. Petey is the GOAT
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 11, 2015, 12:50:18 am
Regardless of what the umpires thought of Utley's slide, how did they not notice that he never touched second base?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 11, 2015, 01:09:26 am
Regardless of what the umpires thought of Utley's slide, how did they not notice that he never touched second base?

According to the way the rules were explained on TBS, once a baserunner is called out, he no longer is required to touch the base since at that point he is supposed to leave the field.  If it is later determined that the ump made the wrong call, the baserunner is supposed to be put back in the place were he would have been in the absence of the error.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 11, 2015, 01:10:27 am
Regardless of what the umpires thought of Utley's slide, how did they not notice that he never touched second base?

Rule is that they recreate what likely would have happened if call was originally correct--in this case fielder didn't touch bag. What would have happened? No-call/play still live (like when runner from 3B slides past home plate without touching plate and catcher misses the tag--ump stands around until one or other happens). Likely Utley goes back to touch bag with a no-call--when saw ump calling him out--moot to touch bag at that point. And, Tejada obviously wasn't going to get up and make a tag before Utley touches bag.

My take on play is that it was a dirty, unethical semi-slide (more of a rolling block than a slide) but "legal" under customs of the game, if not letter of the rules. Seems like umps only care if any part of sliding runner can touch bag (even if doesn't actually touch). Dirty because no primary intent to reach bag but primary intent to initiate a collision and reasonably forseeable to cause some form of harm to fielder.

Unfortunately, this is way game is played today, especially in crucial playoff, one-run, late inning situation. MLB should change how rules interpreted in this type of play. Terrible. Maybe something will happen as a result.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on October 11, 2015, 02:27:03 am
Utley has a history with this sort of BS - he's a serial offender.  Based on what I see in the video there's no reason he shouldn't be suspended for several games, minimum. Forget it being a bush league play - that slide wasn't legal under the letter of the rule.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 11, 2015, 07:24:28 am
Utley has a history with this sort of BS - he's a serial offender.  Based on what I see in the video there's no reason he shouldn't be suspended for several games, minimum. Forget it being a bush league play - that slide wasn't legal under the letter of the rule.

How was it NOT legal?  Can you cite and quote the rule?  Or does "not legal" simply mean you personally did not like it?

If he violated the rules, I have no problem with suspending him.  If he did NOT violate the rules, but instead FOLLOWED the rules, then nothing should be done to him.

If you do not like the rules, change the rules, but do not penalize a player for doing what the rules allow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 11, 2015, 07:48:39 am
League changed the play-at-plate rules to prevent injuries, changed an ugly and dangerous baseball tradition, changed "the way the game is played", and changed how you"play hard and play to win."   

I think a high-profile incident like this, right after Coghlan broke Kang's leg, might be exactly the trigger to prompt a rule revision.  Hope it happens. 

Fortunately not every baserunner does that.  On one of the DP's against Pirates on Wednedsay, Castro was right behind the bag and in a very vulnerable position.  But Pirate basically slid to the base.  Had that been Coghlan or Utley going in, Castro too would very likely also be out with another broken leg.  Coghlan and Utley had to roll and redirect their weight well outside a direct line to the base.  Castro could have been demolished. 

I think it would be nice for base runners to change the rule.  I'd imagine their's a conflict; do I want to break somebody's leg and be at risk of being called a dirty player?  Or do I want to to risk being called "soft" and that I don't "play hard and play to win?"  Change the rule so that good players and good sportsmen who are trying hard and playing to win have no reason to want to break people's legs. 

Change the rules. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 11, 2015, 08:59:38 am
I have no problem at all with changing the rules.

I have a problem with punishing someone who followed the rules.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 11, 2015, 09:22:28 am
MLB Network reported that after the game Torre said they were going to implement a rule of having to go right to the bag, beginning in the Fall League.  Haven't noticed this being reported elsewhere yet, though.  Hope it's right.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 11, 2015, 10:00:33 am
Quote
Rule 7.08(b) Comment: A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not.

If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire’s judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out.


The highlighted area is what needs attention.  It has been interpreted to include "was within reach of the bag" as being in contact.  That needs to be clarified and emphasis should be added to the umpire judging the contact to be intentional.


The entire rule


http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 11, 2015, 10:32:36 am
No surprise

Baseball America All-Rookie Team

C – Kyle Schwarber (Cubs)
1B – Justin Bour (Marlins)
2B – Addison Russell (Cubs)
3B – Kris Bryant (Cubs)

SS – Francisco Lindor (Indians)
CF – Joc Pederson (Dodgers)
OF – Randal Grichuk (Cardinals)
OF – Odubel Herrera (Phillies)
DH – Carlos Correa (Astros)
SP – Anthony DeSclafani (Reds)
SP – Lance McCullers Jr. (Astros)
SP – Carlos Rodon (White Sox)
SP – Eduardo Rodriguez (Red Sox)
SP – Noah Syndergaard (Mets)
RP – Roberto Osuna (Blue Jays)

Jorge Soler did not make either the first or second team.  But when he was on the field he produced at the plate.  In 101 games, Soler batter .262/.324/.399 with 18 doubles, a triple and 10 home runs for a .723 OPS.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 11, 2015, 10:35:46 am
Wasn't Bour also a Cub farmhand?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 11, 2015, 10:44:15 am
Rules change is great, but there really needs to be a culture change.  You can see it from Ripken's comments last night.  Culture says hard slide to take the guy out at second is playing good, hard baseball.  It's how they were all brought up.

Along with the rules change, there needs to be announcement that says "Yes, we understand that this is how it's always been, but we're not going to do it that way anymore because it's too dangerous, and it's unnecessary."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 11, 2015, 10:52:33 am
Devil's Advocate: Was it unnecessary?  Do the Dodgers win the game without that slide?  Perhaps not.  If Utley would have slud (channeling Dizzy Dean) to the bag, he would have been safe on replay, so yes. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 11, 2015, 10:53:32 am
Rules change is great, but there really needs to be a culture change.  You can see it from Ripken's comments last night.  Culture says hard slide to take the guy out at second is playing good, hard baseball.  It's how they were all brought up.

Along with the rules change, there needs to be announcement that says "Yes, we understand that this is how it's always been, but we're not going to do it that way anymore because it's too dangerous, and it's unnecessary."

A rule change can produce a behavioral change, which appears to be the true desire.  Just having folks say "we're not going to do it that way anymore because it's too dangerous, and it's unnecessary," to try to being a "culture change," would not only take years, but would also likely be ineffective.

While certainly the broken leg and the rules should be the focus here, am I the only one who has looked at the replay several times and never been able to see how on replay the decision Utley was out got reversed?  How could anyone have decided hat the SS failed to touch the bag when he had control of the ball, let alone conclude that the video so clearly established that failure to the point of reversing the call?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 11, 2015, 11:01:56 am
I'm advocating both rules change and culture change.

Unncecessary not the right word.  I want all of baseball to look at it and realize "yes, there's an advantage to be had there, but to get it you have to engage in behavior that is just too dangerous, so we're not going to do it anymore."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: rjzebra on October 11, 2015, 11:12:06 am
As probably the oldest fan on this board, I will seldom criticize a runner for sliding to a base aggressively....it is part of baseball and I prefer it that way.  Make all the changes you want to protect these overpaid head cases, but IMO it's not my brand of baseball. :)   
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 11, 2015, 11:29:52 am
The takeout slide at second base is not unlike a pitcher throwing at a hitter.

Many "old school" veterans maintain that letting their pitcher hit an opposing player evens things out and that is the end of it.  Don't let the umpires get involved as they only compound the problem.  If only that were true.

An umpire can now eject a pitcher judged to have intentionally hit someone, even without warnings.  Do the same thing at second base.  If the umpire thinks the slide was for lack of a better word, unsportsmanlike, then the runner is gone.


Unfortunately, not all umpires think alike.  If the manager of a tossed baserunner appeals, let the replay crew in New York make the final decision.


Edit:



And to be fair, let the manager of the injured player ask for an appeal too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 11, 2015, 12:05:13 pm
Devil's Advocate: Was it unnecessary?  Do the Dodgers win the game without that slide?  Perhaps not.  If Utley would have slud (channeling Dizzy Dean) to the bag, he would have been safe on replay, so yes. 

I don't think so. If he doesn't take out Tajada there is likely a throw to first and it becomes the neighborhood play and isn't reviewable. If Utley is out the chances of the Dodgers winning the game goes down into the 20% range.

I think there is a difference between Coghlan's and Utley's slides. Coghlan's was a hard slide, it actually looked like a slide. Utley's was at a 90 degree angle to the base and rolling. It was also late. I think a reasonable rule would be that you have to slide at the bag and it actually has to resemble a slide and not a tackle. I don't think you can eliminate all the possible ways that a SS/2B can get hurt turning a double play, but you can decrease the risks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 11, 2015, 12:09:30 pm
Wasn't Bour also a Cub farmhand?

25th round 2009 pick.  Was with the Cubs until a couple of years ago when the Marlins took him in the Rule 5 draft.  While he had a nice 2015, he offered a WAR of only 0.3, certainly better than a poke in the eye, but not much of a difference maker,
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 11, 2015, 12:16:18 pm
Wasn't Bour also a Cub farmhand?


Cubs lost him in the AAA phase of the 2013 Rule 5 draft.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 11, 2015, 12:24:23 pm
Carfardo had a couple interesting tidbits in his column according to MLB Traderumors.

Cubs might have an interest in Lackey in the offseason. Would the Cardinals give him a QO?  If he doesn't have one he could be a mildly interesting #3 guy on a 1 year deal.

The Indians still may move a starter for a hitter in the off season. Danny Salazar is more likely to be a trade canidate than Carrasco.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 11, 2015, 12:33:38 pm
Salazar would be a nice pick up. What would he cost?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 11, 2015, 01:00:07 pm
What made the play a reviewable non-neighborhood play was the toss from Murphy, not anything that Utley did.

The toss was high and created a non-routine touch at the bag in view of the umpires. Not sure I agree with that but that was rationale for the ruling.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 11, 2015, 01:09:43 pm
Salazar would be a nice pick up. What would he cost?

A lot.

I'm not sure if the Indians would be interested in the Cubs middle infielders with Kipnis and Lindor. I guess maybe Baez if they view him as a 3B option and if they have given up on Chisenhall. They need some OF, so maybe Soler and a lot of prospects?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 11, 2015, 01:58:37 pm
Utley's slide wasnt dirty.

It was just ferocious.

Kinda like saying it's OK for a LBer to sack a QB but getting mad because one LBer hits harder than the other.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 11, 2015, 02:03:32 pm
Utley's slide wasnt dirty.

It was just ferocious.

Kinda like saying it's OK for a LBer to sack a QB but getting mad because one LBer hits harder than the other.
Would you feel the same way if it had been Starlin Castro whose season had just ended?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 11, 2015, 02:24:21 pm
Eventually baseball will be like football when they put the touch flags on the QB's and no longer be watchable.

Leave the game like it is. If MLB feels the need to suspend Utley for playing hard then suspend him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 11, 2015, 02:43:36 pm
Utley's slide wasnt dirty.

It was just ferocious.

Kinda like saying it's OK for a LBer to sack a QB but getting mad because one LBer hits harder than the other.

Now there is a truly nuanced analysis. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ray on October 11, 2015, 02:45:37 pm
I have no problem with playing hard, but I don't really consider that a slide.  Count me in the camp of at least making am attempt to look like you are going for the base.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 11, 2015, 03:07:52 pm
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/10/11/chase-utley-rule-slides-mlb-ruben-tejada/73775582/

http://nypost.com/2015/10/11/utleys-blow-may-end-tejadas-career-in-wildly-escalated-nlds/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 11, 2015, 06:34:34 pm
Watching more post-season than I have in a very, very long time. Turns out I'm more interested when the Cubs are in the playoffs.

The Astros really are impressive. I think they scare me more than the Royal do ... should the Cubs actually scrap their way to the World Series.  I also find myself not wanting the Astros to get there before the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 11, 2015, 06:37:26 pm
1964 Cy Young winner Dean Chance (128-115, 2.92) has died at 74.  His lifetime batting average of .066 was because he was a natural left handed hitter who batted right handed so as to not expose his pitching arm to injury.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 11, 2015, 06:40:30 pm
So if the Astros and Rangers make it to the ALCS, I guess it will be an I-45 series?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: EightyTwo on October 11, 2015, 07:37:35 pm
Would Cubs-White Sox be the Red Line series?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 11, 2015, 08:26:04 pm
So if the Astros and Rangers make it to the ALCS, I guess it will be an I-45 series?
no but it will be the first series played outside the United States.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 11, 2015, 08:31:50 pm
Utley suspended for games 3 and 4...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 11, 2015, 08:35:27 pm
Aside from the merits, good idea not having Utley in New York. That could have been a bad situation.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Santo4HofF on October 11, 2015, 08:36:49 pm
Suspension was too short.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 11, 2015, 08:45:42 pm
Utley is appealing the suspension.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 11, 2015, 08:55:18 pm
1964 Cy Young winner Dean Chance (128-115, 2.92) has died at 74.  His lifetime batting average of .066 was because he was a natural left handed hitter who batted right handed so as to not expose his pitching arm to injury.

This leaves me confused.  If he bats right-handed, isn't his pitching arm right out in front where a pitch can hit it?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 11, 2015, 09:00:04 pm
He was a rh pitcher
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Tuffy on October 11, 2015, 09:02:16 pm
He was a rh pitcher

OK, I see now.  When I saw "natural left-handed hitter" I just assumed that that would be the way he threw, too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 12, 2015, 07:53:10 am
With respect to the Utley play, I would consider a rule where a runner over sliding second base is automatically out and (in the case of a man on first and less than 2 outs) it's an automatic DP with no advancement of a runner on third.  That would have the additional benefit of disincentivizing those late slides by runners trying to steal second or leg out a double.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 12, 2015, 08:27:35 am
Good idea, P2. 

Seems to me that giving umpires a subjective intent-to-reach-bag versus intent-to-reach-the-infielder interpretation could also work. 
*A traditional baseball play is the slide.  How many times does a guy sliding to second to try to steal a base, or sliding into 3rd to complete a triple, miss the base entirely and hit the dirt on a role at or beyond the bag? 
*It's not that difficult to see the line of trajectory from where a runner starts to 2B.  If the goal is to reach 2B, you're sure not doing what Utley did, or Coghlan.  Utley didn't even hit the ground until basically at/past the bag, and he never touched it.  Coghlan may have been within finger reach of the bag, but pretty obvious that his line of body-weight flight was not directed at the base, it was directed at the fielder. 

I totally get that Dodgers were down a run and their season was at risk of leaking away if the DP was completed.  I don't expect Utley to be perfectly seeing and processing that with the poor feed that the SS had no shot at a DP anyway.  Within the current baseball rules, hurling his body at the SS's legs was an effective way to preclude a DP, allow the run to score, and support winning the game.  The run did score; they did win.  I can see why Dodger fans would support the approach he took. 

I just think adjusting the rules so that you and your team get penalized rather than rewarded for doing such an injury-risk move would make good sense. 

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 12, 2015, 09:03:40 am
That's sensible, craig.  My proposal does not preclude additional restrictions on the kind of slide that is acceptable when not oversliding the base.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: aTm on October 12, 2015, 09:36:21 am
It's not part of the game.  It's not part of the game at youth levels because its **** dangerous. Just like it wasn't ever allowed when I played as a kid to go plowing over some 12 year old catcher at the plate.   It's only part of the game at the professional levels because macho culture allowed that kind of hard nosed bending of the rules until they break.  Can a runner run over the third baseman as he's fielding a ground ball if he's in the baseline to break up a ground ball out?  Hell no.  A runner should have to slide to attempt to be safe and avoid contact with a  fielder making a play or else its interference and everybody is out.  That's baseball.  It would also eventually allow the umpires to get rid of the neighborhood nonsense and call the play at the second base bag correctly without interpretation as well.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 12, 2015, 09:41:43 am
Amen. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 12, 2015, 10:17:06 am
According to Heyman Utley's suspension is unlikely to be heard while the Dodgers are in New York.  Is there some history with Harvey and Utley as well?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 12, 2015, 02:28:35 pm
Contact% by AL Playoff Teams
1.) Royals     81.9%
6.) Yankees  80.4%
7.) Bluejays  79.4%
11.) Rangers 78.3%
15.) Astros    75.9%

Contact % by NL Playoff Teams
4.) Mets       79.7%
7.) Cardinals 78.5%
10.) Dodgers 78%
11.) Pirates   78%
15.) Cubs      74.8%
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 12, 2015, 02:36:23 pm
Another absurd application of replay review in KC/Astros series. Gore called out after clearly stealing 3B after freeze frame shows 1/8 inch off the bag for 1/8 of second. Hope they fix use of replay like this in off-season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on October 12, 2015, 02:53:00 pm
Correa with his second HR and the Astros are up 5-2 in the 7th.  Let's hope our rookies perform tonight too!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 12, 2015, 02:54:50 pm
Correa is kinda good.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 12, 2015, 03:22:21 pm
Quote
Hope they fix use of replay like this in off-season.

Agree.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 12, 2015, 03:26:45 pm
Astros bullpen implosion.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 12, 2015, 03:27:00 pm
Kansas City scores 4 in the 7th to tie it, and presently have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out. 

Two runs, including the tying run, scored on a Correa error. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 12, 2015, 03:42:59 pm
And that is why I would consider the Royals the more dangerous  team.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 12, 2015, 03:45:44 pm
Gregerson limits the damage to five runs, 7-6 Royals.  Bummer for Houston, 6-2 lead in the 8th of the clinching game must have looked pretty good....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 12, 2015, 03:47:15 pm
The Correa error was a tough one.  The ball tipped off Sipp's glove and took a funny spin.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 12, 2015, 03:59:26 pm
Royals ans Jays turning things around in a hurry.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 12, 2015, 04:35:49 pm
Yeah, nightmare 8th inning for Houston.  Gotta wonder whether they can recover from that.  It might make KC feel invincible.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 12, 2015, 04:53:26 pm
Or they might lose game 5.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 12, 2015, 05:06:59 pm
When Pete Rose took out Ray Fosse  in the All-Star game it was part of the game.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on October 12, 2015, 05:08:29 pm
It was a stupid play by a meathead moron
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on October 12, 2015, 05:11:08 pm
(http://the-mainboard.com/index.php?attachments/1444543040477-jpg.17660/)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 12, 2015, 05:11:38 pm
Pete or Utley?

Either way, back in the 70's it was part of the game. Now it's we can't hurt the millionares. Just like football and don't touch the QB or it's a flag.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 12, 2015, 05:45:49 pm
I'd prefer Russell to have non broken legs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 13, 2015, 12:06:38 am
Carlos Correa 4-4 today with 11 total bases......but makes devastating, Alex Gonzalez-type error on DP grounder (on not-easy hop) in 8th inning that changes complexion of game and maybe result of that series.

This is baseball. Hero and bum on same day. Maybe Correa will mention this during his HOF speech 25 years from now, as an inspiration for what follows.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 03:39:16 pm
Heard something on Fox Sports today that makes me even less anxious to spend huge dollars on Price.  Price blamed nerves for losing Game 1 and voiced a preference for not pitching in Game 5.  What is his postseason record?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 03:48:38 pm
2-6 and 5.04 ERA.

You'll have to ask CBJ about his xFIP and SIERA.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 03:55:49 pm
Still, I would have taken Tigers offer of Price for Daury Torrez. Big mistake turning that down.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 14, 2015, 05:03:36 pm
Still, I would have taken Tigers offer of Price for Daury Torrez. Big mistake turning that down.

Not as big a mistake as thinking the offer was made outside of a hypothetical on a fan discussion board.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:12:00 pm
Texas and Toronto are tied 2-2 after 6.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:21:17 pm
Texas and Toronto has been a well played game today.

This is relaxing and exciting at the same time.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:23:02 pm
Texas scores a run on a rare play.  Runner on third and Choo at the late.  The catcher's throw back to the pitcher hits Choo's bat and dribbles toward third.  The runner came in to score.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:24:03 pm
Field is getting trashed.  Wow.

What a weird play.  It's the correct call though.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:26:52 pm
Looks like David Price has been ejected and a Cecil maybe.

Fans whipping things onto the field
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 05:28:17 pm
Bizarre. Anybody ever seen that before?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:28:29 pm
Play is not reviewable but umps are looking at replays anyway.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:29:01 pm
Now it's being looked at on replay.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:30:49 pm
Toronto playing the game under protest.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:31:02 pm
Now they reversed it again.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:31:27 pm
Or did they?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:32:47 pm
Russell Martin gets an error on the play.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:33:33 pm
A little baby has been hit by a beer can.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 05:35:25 pm
Makes me sick that Harold Reynolds knew the rule.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 05:35:50 pm
I'm kind of shocked that's not a dead ball.  Weird play.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:36:46 pm
If the umpires can rule that Choo did not intentionally put his bat in the way of the throw, why can't they use their judgement on a takeout slide at 2B?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 05:36:57 pm
A little baby has been hit by a beer can.
mostly from upper deck.  Drunken Canadians can't throw worthshit.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:38:22 pm
mostly from upper deck.  Drunken Canadians can't throw worthshit.
Must be the only park in MLB that doesn't use paper cups.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:45:11 pm
Toronto loads the bases on three errors.  No outs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 05:46:43 pm
Take out slide under review.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 05:48:27 pm
Most bizarre inning, top and bottom, you're going to see in some time.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on October 14, 2015, 05:50:41 pm
Wow did Texas crap the bed this inning.  They've got 4 outs so far but 3 errors loads the bases with 1 down.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 14, 2015, 05:52:01 pm
Quote
why can't they use their judgement on a takeout slide at 2B?

They can.  It's in the rulebook that they can rule the guy at first out if the baserunner deliberately tries to take out the fielder to disrupt the double play.  They just don't.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:52:43 pm
Blooper just over the 2B's head ties the game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:54:49 pm
Jose Bautista goes yard.  6-3 BlueJays.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on October 14, 2015, 05:55:29 pm
Texas deserves to lose and it looks like they just did. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 05:55:45 pm
Wow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:55:53 pm
Not one run should have scored this inning but they may have just lost the series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:56:24 pm
Bat tosses after homers are getting out of control.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:57:45 pm
Benches have cleared.

Jose Bautista should probably get drilled in the ribs for that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 05:57:49 pm
Beer cans and garbage being thrown on the field again.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 05:58:00 pm
Wow did Texas crap the bed this inning.  They've got 4 outs so far but 3 errors loads the bases with 1 down.
Elvis should have left the building
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 05:58:49 pm
Benches have cleared.

Jose Bautista should probably get drilled in the ribs for that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 06:00:40 pm
Police on the field.

This has gotten ugly. Are all Canadians like this? This is a team you could really hate.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on October 14, 2015, 06:01:54 pm
I don't want any part of Toronto.   They are the only team left that scares me.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 06:02:47 pm
Carnacion reaches on a swinging bunt.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 06:05:57 pm
I hope Cub fans never act like this.  Texas just fell apart.   Hope our Cubs never have this happen.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 06:07:14 pm
Tulo foul pop ends the inning but the dugouts have emptied again.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JBN on October 14, 2015, 06:10:51 pm
Benches cleared twice.

Really ugly for baseball. Toronto seems to be full of nut jobs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 06:12:18 pm
Maybe an umpire will get hit by a beer bottle. ..how bad does it have to get for a forfeit
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 06:15:00 pm
All we need now is a HBP.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 14, 2015, 06:24:26 pm
I don't want any part of Toronto.   They are the only team left that scares me.

Yep.

And the Dodgers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 06:32:44 pm
Still 6-3 Toronto going into the top of the ninth.

Too bad there isn't a handshake line after the game.  That would be fun to see.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 06:34:29 pm
If we end up with Toronto, we can welcome home Donaldson and Hank White
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 06:35:24 pm
If we end up with Toronto, we can welcome home Donaldson and Hank White
And Dioner  Navarro.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 06:42:10 pm
Oh wait... I was thinking Blanco instead of Navarro
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 06:44:30 pm
Forget the game being played under protest as Toronto wins 6-3.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 06:48:33 pm
Too bad they had all the turmoil in the top of 7 though.  Wonder how much that effected the Rangers in the bottom of the 7th
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 06:49:17 pm
Ken Rosenthal interviews Jose Bautista and does not mention his bat toss.  Probably a good move.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 06:57:35 pm
Ken Rosenthal interviews Jose Bautista and does not mention his bat toss.  Probably a good move.

He asked him that. "You had an epic bat flip-was that the emotion of the moment of what had happened in the top half taking over?"
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 07:01:41 pm
He asked him that. "You had an epic bat flip-was that the emotion of the moment of what had happened in the top half taking over?"
Didn't hear the first part of that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 07:10:22 pm
Yeah, 50,000 people are screaming in the background.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 07:22:50 pm
I may be the only one, but I enjoyed the bat flip.  I like seeing the players getting excited and having fun. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 07:26:59 pm
Remember how Maddon publicly was critical of a Junior Lake bat flip earlier this season?  Said, we don't do that here. 

Also, do Cubs come out of dugout to greet the guy who hits the homer, as Jays did on Bautista homer?  Seemed like half of the Jays players went on the field to greet him.   
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 07:29:14 pm
Valbuena puts the Astros up 2-0.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 07:34:38 pm
If we end up with Toronto, we can welcome home Donaldson and Hank White

Isn't Hank White a coach for the Cubs?

All the bat flips. Baseball should be a fun game, I miss Valbuena's bat flips on singles.

Edit: I just saw a gif of the bat flip. It was amazing, if One of the Cubs hit a HR to win the World Series I hope they top it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on October 14, 2015, 08:47:51 pm
Wow, was that a crazy game!  Texas has now had some epic playoff failure.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 09:03:15 pm
KC has Cardinal-like cockroach tendencies
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 09:11:00 pm
Looks like the Cubs are about two innings away from being the last wild card team left.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 09:34:35 pm
Keuchel in for the bottom of the 8th against the Royals, even though the Astros still have their closer available.  Maybe it's just me, but does it seem like MLB managers are too eager to get their ace into the game this year?  Price in game 4, Keuchel now...it's like managers watched Bumgarner dominate last year and now they want to look as smart as Bochy did.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 09:43:41 pm
Morales just ended the Astros' season.  What a meltdown in game 4, and bringing in Keuchel when they still had good relievers was a really stupid decision. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 09:45:57 pm
Kuechel a reliever not is
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 09:52:03 pm
Game over, Royals and Blue Jays in the ALCS.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 14, 2015, 09:54:52 pm
Johnny Cueto.  2nd-inning HR, but he totally shut them down after that. 

Not sure how healthy he is or will be, and he's no David Price.  But that guy's a competitor and battler, I think he loves playing baseball, and he won't cost Price price.  Cueto likes to hit, he's been good in Wrigley, he's battled the Cubs many times, so he might have a lot of familiarity and comfort level with how fun the Cubs situation could be, and how great it would be to be on a really good team.  Not sure if Kansas City will let him get away, but I could imagine Maddon giving him a strong recruiting sell if they do.  I'd rather have him going in game three than Hammel!  Plus as a trade guy, he won't cost a draft pick.  (Which I still value.) 

Kind of interesting to be in a position where our money, and now our exciting championship/contending situation, could make us super realistic for very good guy.  Don't think we'll need to outbid anymore; I think other teams will probably need to outbid us.   
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 14, 2015, 10:16:54 pm
Keuchel in for the bottom of the 8th against the Royals, even though the Astros still have their closer available.  Maybe it's just me, but does it seem like MLB managers are too eager to get their ace into the game this year?  Price in game 4, Keuchel now...it's like managers watched Bumgarner dominate last year and now they want to look as smart as Bochy did.

I don't think it is like that, but that it is exactly that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 10:29:49 pm
Cueto on a one year deal would be really interesting. Cueto Ona multi-year deal with his injury history would be scary.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 14, 2015, 10:34:51 pm
I may be the only one, but I enjoyed the bat flip.  I like seeing the players getting excited and having fun. 

Yep.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on October 14, 2015, 10:48:45 pm
All royal blue final four
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 11:06:30 pm
You're counting out the Mets?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 14, 2015, 11:18:52 pm
Cueto on a one year deal would be really interesting. Cueto Ona multi-year deal with his injury history would be scary.

What's his history injury?  I know he missed much of 2013, and he missed a handful of starts in 2011.  But I don't know details. 

Blue, what's your 2nd-choice?  I know you're all in on Price.  And perhaps Theo will chase and sign him.  But, just in case they don't, is there anybody you like?  I'm not trying to fuss, I just don't remember a lot and I respect your opinion.  What I do remember is that you don't want Cueto; and you don't want Zimmerman or Greinke. 

So, if they don't sign Price, you want to trade Baez to try to get somebody? 
I think I maybe recall you're a Samardzija guy?  Or Happ? 
Or you want to just go with Hammel and Hendricks and fill in #5 with whatever? 

What do you think of Gallardo or Leake or Kazmir? 

I'm thinking the Cubs could have some connections with a number of the candidates.  Gallardo, Cueto, and Leake all have tons of division/Wrigely experience.  Price is an old Maddon guy.  Samardz of course goes way back with Theo and Hoyer.  Zimmerman's an area guy.  Buchholz lots of history.  Jaime Garcia lots of history. 



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 14, 2015, 11:21:01 pm
I would take a Leake.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 11:30:47 pm
I would keep Hendricks as my #5 but I would replace Hammel and the flavor of the week.   Garcia and Lackey would be interesting only because that's the kind of thing the Yankees and Red Sox used to do to each other.  If Smarj was cheap enough I could live with that.  Price scares me.  I think the price tag will be more than he's really worth. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 11:37:37 pm
I would trust Bosio to work with Aroldis Chapman and convert him into a TOR starter.  That could be a steal.  And if it didn't work out, having that arm in the pen would be lights out or trade him at the deadline.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 11:39:37 pm
Cueto had arm injuries this year as well. Just too many injuries to give him a lot of money.

Price, Samardzija, Iwakawa, Lackey (if no QO), trade. Garcia has too many injuries as well.

Leake is worse than Hammel and Hendricks. I would go Arrieta, Lester, New Guy, Hendricks, Hammel and then hope Underwood, Johnson, Turner or Edwards could take Hammel's spot in 2017.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on October 14, 2015, 11:45:27 pm
You're counting out the Mets?
The Dodgers would fit the theme that much better, but the Mets still have royal as one of their main colors
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: buff on October 15, 2015, 06:11:39 am
I would love Carrasco but not sure I want to pay the price in talent to get him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 15, 2015, 06:13:29 am
The Dodgers would fit the theme that much better, but the Mets still have royal as one of their main colors
That's true.  I forgot.  The Mets took the colors of both the Giants and Dodgers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 15, 2015, 07:23:54 am
Price scares me.  I think the price tag will be more than he's really worth.

The price tag of nearly all FA pitchers who are any good ends up far more than they are really worth.


I would go Arrieta, Lester, New Guy, Hendricks, Hammel and then hope Underwood, Johnson, Turner or Edwards could take Hammel's spot in 2017.

Sounds good... though it still leaves open the question of who the "new guy" should be.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on October 15, 2015, 08:25:04 am
Who's Iwakawa?

Replacing Hammel may not be so easy considerding he's under contract, though you could probably give him to somebody at his salary.  Leake has some appeal as a #4 with a lot of consistency, but the obvious priority is to find that guy you want to start Game 2 or 3 of the postseason, and I don't think Leake is that guy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 15, 2015, 08:30:15 am
Ryne was on MLB radio.
-He accomplished his goal of being an MLB manager, but he doesn't have the desire to try and do it again.

-He thinks an old school manager won't work.

-He is impressed with Joe Maddon and thinks he was worth 30-40 wins.

-Thought Utley's slide was dirty.

I really kind of hope that the Cubs can find a place for him to work with younger kids.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on October 15, 2015, 08:35:26 am
Ryne was on MLB radio.
-He accomplished his goal of being an MLB manager, but he doesn't have the desire to try and do it again.

-He thinks an old school manager won't work.

-He is impressed with Joe Maddon and thinks he was worth 30-40 wins.

-Thought Utley's slide was dirty.

I really kind of hope that the Cubs can find a place for him to work with younger kids.

Wait, what?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 15, 2015, 08:39:54 am
I suspect it's just as well that Sandberg has given up on the idea of managing.  That should make it much easier for the Cubs to find a role for him in the organization, which I imagine they will try to do.  He is still my all-time favorite Cub, though I have a hunch that he is going to be dethroned by one (or more) of the current crop.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on October 15, 2015, 10:36:36 am
Iwakawa = Iwakuma
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 15, 2015, 12:15:17 pm
Wait, what?

He said 30-40 wins.  He thinks a regular manager can be worth 8-9 wins, so his scale might be a tad high.

Iwakawa = Iwakuma

At least I was in the ball park this time.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Pistol on October 15, 2015, 12:40:39 pm
I think the AP is a little confused

Quote
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The Dodgers have claimed pitcher Brooks Brown from the Colorado Rockies, joining Zack Greinke as the second right-hander on their playoff roster.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 15, 2015, 12:42:59 pm
Yeah, I think so.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 15, 2015, 01:34:25 pm
One of the things that makes baseball great. Stuff happens that you've never seen before (except for Dave P. maybe).

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/64603/wild-improbable-rally-fuels-blue-jays-pennant-chase
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 15, 2015, 01:46:02 pm
In all the years I've played,  coached and watched baseball I've never seen the catcher hit the batter's bat.  Really odd that there is an honest to goc rule on it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 15, 2015, 01:51:05 pm
I do remember Marichal getting nicked in the ear by Roseboro  and then Roseboro getting the bat.  That was fun.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 15, 2015, 01:54:32 pm
This happened in 2010.  It seems more likely than a throw back to the mound.

https://youtu.be/DgTP33rXd2I (https://youtu.be/DgTP33rXd2I)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 15, 2015, 02:11:19 pm
Cool.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 15, 2015, 03:10:50 pm
Yeah, that's something.  Can't tell if umpire allowed the runner who advanced to second--- to stay at second.  Runner at 3B had no chance to score.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on October 15, 2015, 04:13:49 pm
Cubs should find a spot for Ryno that does not require cognitive analysis. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 15, 2015, 04:25:40 pm
Cubs should find a spot for Ryno that does not require cognitive analysis. 

That sounds about right, if I understand what you mean by "cognitive analysis."  From the stories from his experience managing in the minor leagues for the Cubs, I got the impression he might be a really good infield coach and I certainly give him high marks for "playing the game the right way" as far as attitude and approach. I gather he could also be adept at teaching youngsters how to play practical jokes on their teammates.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on October 15, 2015, 04:28:55 pm
That was too snarky.  I should have said, "The Cubs should find a spot for Ryno that does not require a realistic appreciation of how cause and effect work."  Maddon was worth 30 to 40 wins?!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 15, 2015, 04:34:13 pm
I think having him as guy that goes and works with young infielders would be a great job for him.  Statistical analysis may not be his strong point.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 15, 2015, 04:39:31 pm
Ive seen catchers throw the ball back and hit the hitter in the side of the head a few times.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 15, 2015, 04:58:28 pm
Speaking of coaches - Manny Ramirez was very visible in the celebration after the Cubs win over the Cards.  I wonder what his future is with the organization.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 15, 2015, 05:48:39 pm
Noah Syndergaard just turned 23 at the end of August and has now thrown 150 regular season innings, plus 29 regular season innings, plus another 6 (so far) in the post-season so far.

That's a total of 185 innings, and his prior single season high had been 133 last year.

This year he had a very nice ERA+ of 114, with an ERA and a FIP which were almost identical.  Normally you would expect a pitcher that age to improve the next year, but I would put even money on him having a serious decline in performance as a result or arm or should problems, whether diagnosed or not, next year.  For his sake (certainly not for the Mets' sake), hopefully at 6'6" and 240 his body is a bit more durable than most and he has no arm problems.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 15, 2015, 08:27:41 pm
Murphy goes first to third on a walk thanks to the Dodgers shift and scores on a sac fly to tie the game. Hoping for extra innings.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 15, 2015, 08:29:09 pm
A Met baserunner on first just went first to third on a walk -- that is definitely something I haven't seen before.

The Dodgers had the shift on for a lefthanded hitter and with no one even near 3rd, the baserunner just kept goig after he reached 2nd.  Nice heads-up play by the baserunner.  Clown-car play by the Dodger infield.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on October 15, 2015, 08:29:26 pm
What was Ethier screaming at Mattingly about last inning? Starting to think I prefer the Dodgers....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 15, 2015, 09:15:36 pm
Ethier and Mattingly have been at each other's throats for years. Nothing new.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 15, 2015, 09:18:28 pm
Former Dodgers and Mets great is not neutral in this series.

https://mobile.twitter.com/mikepiazza31/status/654785098466750471
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 15, 2015, 09:58:45 pm
Getting Thor up 4 times to pitch him for 1 inning seems like a waste. I wonder if they will bring in back for game 2 (if the lead holds) or he is a game 3/4 pitcher?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AZSteve on October 15, 2015, 10:00:35 pm
Sure looks like Cubs vs Mets...3-2 Mets going into 9th
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 15, 2015, 10:21:12 pm
Mets win.

Cubs went 7-0 against them in the regular season, don't see any reason they can't beat them in 4 of the next 7.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 15, 2015, 10:22:58 pm
Cubs played the Mets when the Mets had no lineup, no Cespedes. Completely different team.

Had the pitching matchups mapped out for the Dodgers. Now have to start over.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: FDISK on October 15, 2015, 10:30:46 pm
Mets play a game in NY on Tuesday, fly 2500 miles to LA, play a game on Thursday, fly 2500 miles back to NY to play a game on Saturday.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 15, 2015, 10:30:58 pm
Cespedes is one hitter.  One hitter doesn't turn an 0-7 team into a 4-3 team.  Wright and Conforto weren't there the last time the Cubs faced them, but they don't scare me either (especially since Collins will start Cuddyer over Conforto half the time).

This is a really good outcome for the Cubs.  As good as the Mets' starters are, facing Kershaw and Greinke 4-5 times scared me a lot more.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on October 15, 2015, 10:33:36 pm
I mildly prefer facing the Mets, but seeing Greinke look so human - as pitchers without overwhelming stuff often do in the postseason - makes me wonder.  There's a lot more that's changed about that team than Cespedes, and they're pretty scary 4-deep in the rotation.  Gonna be a tough series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 15, 2015, 10:35:16 pm
The Mets led the NL in homers after the AS break. It's not just one hitter though Cespedes has been great and is more dangerous than any Dodger. My other concern is that the Mets are three deep, at least, in their rotation whereas the Dodgers were really only two deep. Only way the Cubs would've faced Kershaw/Greinke 5 times is if the series went 7 and each of them went on three days rest. Think on paper this is a tougher matchup but the Cubs can win.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 15, 2015, 10:42:24 pm
I just curious why the Cubs would need to rearrange their rotation?  Getting Lester/Arrieta pitching earlier would seem to be a better outcome. 

I think it is important to point out that when the Cubs played the Mets Schwarber, Soler and Baez also weren't with the team. Castro was still at SS and Russell was having his worst 2 months on offense.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 15, 2015, 10:44:00 pm
Don't forget that the Cubs are a "different team" too.  The last time the Cubs beat the Mets (to go 7-0 on the season), the Cubs were 42-35.  At that point, they were .500 against teams other than the Mets.  The Cubs finished 25 games over .500 against teams other than the Mets. 

Cubs win this series in 5, maybe 6.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on October 15, 2015, 10:45:04 pm
What has to worry you about this series is that 3/4 of the pitching matchups undeniably favor the Mets.  Harvey and Matz are certainly gettable and Syndergard and DeGrom aren't Kershaw and Greinke, but apart from whoever faces Arretta (I'm guessing it will be Syndergard) all of the Mets starters are better on paper than the Cub SP opposing them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 15, 2015, 10:52:35 pm
Pretty sure you could have said the same thing about the Giants starters last year.

Harvey is on a pitch limit and may only pitch one time.  Syndergaard and deGrom can rack up pitch counts and exit games early. Matz has talent, but he has little experience so he might buckle under pressure. The Mets are a good team, but when you get to this point you are going to face a good team. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 15, 2015, 10:53:11 pm
deGrom seemed to lose a little in September and the Dodgers certainly could've done more against him tonight.  Harvey wanted to be shut down a couple weeks ago. Matz isn't really proven--he's somewhat of a wild card with an injury history.  And Syndergaard is a 23 year old who is 50 innings past his previous season high. 

I saw the "Mets starters are better than anyone but Arrieta" tweets earlier tonight.  But I think that's silly.  I take Lester over any of their starters.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on October 15, 2015, 10:57:23 pm
I think it's silly to take 2015 Lester over any of DeGrom, Syndergard or Harvey.  But that's as may be.  I'd certainly take those three over or Hammel or Hendrcks or Haren.

I think the best hope for the Cubs is that Harvey is simply gassed, and one or more of the other three kids crumbles under pressure.  I see this as a 50-50 series, really - it's true, you can't get to the NLCS and not expect to face a good team.  It's choose your poison.

If nothing else, this represents a fascinating clash of two different developmental strategies.  And proof that they can both work.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 15, 2015, 11:01:22 pm
Fangraphs has the Cubs at 56.3% to win the NLCS and 30.4% to win the World Series.  Just FWIW.  They're the favorite to go all the way at this point according to Fangraphs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 15, 2015, 11:02:25 pm
I agree the Cubs are different. Both teams are much better. Not all that comfortable with Baez rather than Russell however. Maybe he'll "run into" another FB or three.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 15, 2015, 11:06:19 pm
deGrom seemed to lose a little in September

deGrom's performance in G1 against LA was one of the most dominant is postseason history. His stuff is possibly better than Arrieta's. Fortunately, he doesn't pitch prior to G3 and then maybe only G6 on short rest.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on October 15, 2015, 11:30:59 pm
Baez is the least of my concerns - I'm not so certain this isn't an upgrade on the whole, though it does deplete the bench.  One thing is that those Mets pitchers are serious flamethrowers, and there aren't a lot of guys that can turn around a fastball like Baez.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 16, 2015, 12:06:36 am
Arrieta's game score against the Pirates was 88, DeGrom's in game 1 was 79.

Baez and fastball's is a good point. I like Baez a lot, but I think it is a defensive downgrade from Russell to Baez.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on October 16, 2015, 12:46:34 am
 I agree it is a defensive downgrade, based on the greater chance that Baez will boot an easy play.  But I also think it could be a major offensive upgrade, and in fact Baez is capable of making plays at SS that Russell can't.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 16, 2015, 01:29:58 am
I wanted no part of LA.

This is a series we can win.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 16, 2015, 01:56:46 am
Arrieta's game score against the Pirates was 88, DeGrom's in game 1 was 79.

That's due to innings, nothing more. DeGrom's pitch count from K'ing 13 in 7 innings prevented him from pitching further.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: OkieCubsFan on October 16, 2015, 06:56:50 am
That's due to innings, nothing more. DeGrom's pitch count from K'ing 13 in 7 innings prevented him from pitching further.

You can't just discount the innings though. Otherwise Justin Grimm had the most dominant outing in postseason history on Tuesday (it's a tie).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 16, 2015, 07:19:34 am
I'd call that a stretch but that would be insulting to stretches everywhere.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 16, 2015, 08:11:39 am
I'll take them game where the bullpen doesn't pitch so innings are kinda important. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 16, 2015, 08:15:19 am
I'll take them game where the bullpen doesn't pitch so innings are kinda important. 
translator?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: OkieCubsFan on October 16, 2015, 08:45:40 am
If a guy goes 5 innings with 0 hits, 0 BBs and 15 K's, but has to throw 120 pitches to do it and gets pulled from the game, whereupon his bullpen proceeds to give up 5 runs, is that a more dominant outing than a guy who throws 9 innings with 4 hits, 2 BB and 10 K's?

At what point does the number of innings you pitch outweigh how you pitched in them if the end result is the same?  Pitcher # 1 pitched 5 dominant innings; Pitcher #2 pitched a dominant GAME.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 16, 2015, 08:45:46 am
I'd have preferred the Dodgers.  Greinke isn't overpowering, Kershaw would be short-rested, they have nothing else.  But, that's water under the bridge.

The Mets are very good.  Like the Cubs, the 2nd-half Mets are different than the first-half team.  Mets were 53-50 at one point; they've been really good for a couple months now, just like us.  The Cubs have hitting that could club them out, if things go right.  The Mets have pitching that, if things go right, could shut us down. 

Anything can happen, because not everybody is "right" on every playoff game.  Sharp DeGrom could shut us out; non-sharp DeGrom could give up 2/3 runs and be gone after 6.  Sharp Arrieta could throw one or two shutouts; non-sharp Arrieta could struggle like he did on Monday.  Never know what you'll really get in a short series.  If the Mets starters pitch to their capability, it could be a very tough series for the Cubs.  They don't walk people, which is bad for us, since we don't get many hits.  If they don't walk guys, and we don't get many hits, it will be difficult to sequence base runners in innings.  But, they make mistakes too.  Syndergaard, Harvey, and DeGrom have allowed 19, 16, and 18 HR's respectively. 

Great contrast, us with the young power hitters and them with young power pitchers. 

But in another way I think they closely mirror us in that both teams offensively will heavily depend on the HR. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 16, 2015, 08:47:56 am
I prefer the Mets.  We owe both teams a whuppin', but at least I won't have to stay up until 1:30 am to finish the games.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on October 16, 2015, 08:52:55 am
But Joe will out-Maddon them no doubt
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 16, 2015, 10:51:01 am
While the Mets don't walk a lot of people, they aren't efficient with their pitches either.  Causing the pitch counts to get up and get to the bullpen will be really important for the Cubs.

Curt- what Okie said.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on October 16, 2015, 11:44:33 am
The Dodgers had 3 lefty starters.  Schwarber struggles against lefties for the most part.  The only righty we would have faced with the Dodgers would have been Greinke.  LA is a tough place to hit HRs and we've become a HR hitting team.  I had a slight preference for the Mets but they are a really tough team.  They do strike out a lot so hopefully we can take advantage of that. 

The way I look at this series is we need to win 3 out of the 4 games Lester and Arrieta start and pick up another win somehow in eithe game 3 or 4 at home.  The Mets have to fly all the way back from LA after a shot trip up there.  We have to find a way to win game 1.  Win that first game, you have Arrieta on the mound for game 2 and things are looking great.  Lose that game and game 2 is a mist win because of who we have waiting back in Wrigley.  I'd prefer to be up 3-1 obviously but if we split the first 4 we'll still be in decent shape.  Ideally we win the first 2 at NY with Lester and Arrieta, split games 3 and 4, and win the series in 5. 

We pretty much have to win this series in 5 or 6 games.  I don't like our chances in a game 7 with Hendricks on the mound against any of the Mets starters. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 16, 2015, 12:21:52 pm
Really good points there, PR.  Including the lefty-right aspect, and the urgency of starting fast. 

When I look at the NL season stats, the Cubs and Mets are really very similar.  Whether sorting by runs, HR's, slugging, batting average, OPS, they are usually back-to-back in most of those.  Mets ahead in HR and slugging, both .244 team batting average, Cubs a little ahead in OBP.  Pitching-wise, team ERA also back-to-back. 

Seems like a real tossup.  Really dependent on which team happens to hit more HR's.  But they've got enough low-average contact-challenged hitters much like we do, where our pitching may not need to be perfect, and may be able to sometimes get away with some mistakes?

May also be the kind of swing-for-HR type offense that could be vulnerable to Hendricks change?  Particularly if a guy like Cespedes has never seen it before?  Wouldn't be shocking to have Hendricks put up an effective game.  I wonder how a sink/location/changeup guy like that handles these long rests?  Help his fringy fastball to be not even slower?  Or does the extra rest take the sink away, compromise the precision on all his stuff, and compromise his game? 

With Lester losing his start, the Cardinals series was all about the offense.  But if we beat the Mets, I wouldn't be surprised if some victories might not be all about the pitching? 

Will be a fun series to follow and remember, whether we win or lose.   

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 16, 2015, 12:24:06 pm
We need a split in New York.  We won't need to go back.  Cubs in five.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 16, 2015, 01:42:33 pm
Ill say Cubs in 7.

I think we're better than they are but nothing comes easy for a team on a 107 year drought.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: PRCubFan on October 16, 2015, 03:01:30 pm
I'll go with Cubs in 6.  We split in NY, win 2 of 3 at home, and Arrieta closes it out in game 6. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 16, 2015, 03:28:00 pm
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  7m7 minutes ago
Syndegaard was up 4 times, and threw more than 100 pitches in bullpen, so #Mets will wait to see how he feels before deciding on Game 2

When did Dusty Baker take over as manager for the Mets?

Kevin Kernan ‏@WheresKernan  12m12 minutes ago
Matz would go instead of Syndergaard

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  3m3 minutes ago
Sandy Alderson says it's not a given that Harvey will start more than once this series, saying they'll take it start by start.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on October 16, 2015, 09:01:13 pm
Anyone have a strong preference in the Blue Jays Royals matchup?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: buff on October 16, 2015, 09:09:23 pm
Royals.  I might be able to go in kc
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 16, 2015, 09:12:09 pm
KC.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on October 16, 2015, 09:25:49 pm

(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/K_M_A_2/create-a-forum/Other/TheCourse_zpsop8rwb00.png)




The San Diego Padres and Callaway are setting up a nine-hole golf course in their stadium and it looks awesome


http://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-san-diego-padres-are-setting-up-a-nine-hole-golf-course-in-their-stadium-and-it-looks-awesome (http://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-san-diego-padres-are-setting-up-a-nine-hole-golf-course-in-their-stadium-and-it-looks-awesome)

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 16, 2015, 09:36:51 pm
The Cubs can beat the Royals more easily.  But I like the Blue Jays more, and they'll make the World Series more fun.  So I don't know who to cheer for.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 16, 2015, 09:58:36 pm
Encarnacion out of the game after an awkward swing his last time up.

Donaldson hit Perez on his catching hand with a swing a couple minutes ago, and it looks like Perez is in a lot of pain when he catches pitches.

Two major potential injuries already in this series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on October 16, 2015, 11:14:45 pm

sign in the stands at the Royals/Blue Jays game:



(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/K_M_A_2/create-a-forum/Other/kcsign_zpsydjdrhs4.jpg)

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 17, 2015, 08:54:48 am
Quote
Baseball Hall of Fame voting pool down by about 20 percent

NEW YORK (AP) - The voting pool for the Baseball Hall of Fame is being cut by about 20 percent.

The Hall said Friday that it estimated 475 ballots would be mailed for the upcoming election. Last year, about 600 ballots were mailed and 549 were cast by members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

The Hall said in July it was cutting the number of voters by eliminating writers who had not been active in the game for more than 10 years.

Previously, the electorate included people who had been active members of the BBWAA for 10 consecutive years at any point.

Ken Griffey Jr. and Trevor Hoffman are the top new candidates for election. The results will be announced Jan. 6.

Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines all drew over 50 percent last year but fell short of required 75 percent needed for election.

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa, all tainted in the steroids era, again are eligible after finishing far back.
I wonder who gets to define "active"?


A writer who has been active for only 10 years would have seen this year's candidates for only 5 years as they have to have been retired that long.  I'd make the cutoff 15 years instead.  That would cover all of the minimum 10 year career player requirement.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 17, 2015, 05:49:05 pm
So, at some point, David Price's post -season woes become a factor in deciding whether to offer him close to $200 million, right?

Rolling along impressively today---and then 5 earned runs late and giving up a 3-run lead in a game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on October 17, 2015, 06:11:20 pm
Wow, last time I'd checked it was 3-0 with bases loaded and only one out, with Price having been in control.  Quite the turnaround, Wow. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on October 17, 2015, 06:25:26 pm
I didn't like Price's demeanor when his defense couldn't turn the DP with the runner moving from first.  I don't know whether he has a history of that, but I would be concerned about his lack of composure when on the big stage.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 17, 2015, 06:46:48 pm
Harold Reynolds had a good point when he said Price lost his effectiveness when he was no longer in the sun and the batters were in shadows and when the sun quit reflecting off the batter's eye in center field.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 17, 2015, 07:09:21 pm
Laz Diaz:  "I'm going to show PitchTrax where the strike zone really is".
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 17, 2015, 07:24:42 pm
Zack Greinke will opt out of the remaining three years of his contract which would have paid him $71,000,000.00.  Suspicion is that he is just asking for a raise and will stay with the Dodgers.



http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25341626/zack-greinke-to-opt-out-of-dodgers-contract-command-a-big-deal
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 17, 2015, 07:31:02 pm
I didn't like Price's demeanor when his defense couldn't turn the DP with the runner moving from first.  I don't know whether he has a history of that, but I would be concerned about his lack of composure when on the big stage.

Nah, he just seemed bemused that KC sent the runner on what otherwise would be a perfect DP grounder. Defense had no shot at the DP. More of an ironic smile than anything. Composure is a non-issue with Price. Great competitor.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on October 18, 2015, 09:59:44 pm
David Price is the last guy whose composure, character, intangibles, etc. can be questioned.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 18, 2015, 10:04:25 pm
Coming from a Vandy man...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on October 19, 2015, 01:15:51 pm
Just saw where Pentland has been canned as NYY hitting coach
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 19, 2015, 08:32:07 pm
So the Nationals are considering Dusty Baker to replace Matt Williams.  There was a time that Mike Rizzo was considered a really talented GM.  Surely he can do better than Dusty for that talented team.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/baseball-joe/blog/still-room-for-dusty-in-dugout-101915
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 19, 2015, 08:54:11 pm
Crossing Cueto off my Christmas list
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 19, 2015, 08:55:51 pm
Just say it Curt, S-A-M-A-R-D-Z-I-J-A.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on October 19, 2015, 09:06:32 pm
Over/under on Strasburg's arm falling off.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on October 19, 2015, 10:28:34 pm
So the Nationals are considering Dusty Baker to replace Matt Williams.  There was a time that Mike Rizzo was considered a really talented GM.  Surely he can do better than Dusty for that talented team.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/baseball-joe/blog/still-room-for-dusty-in-dugout-101915

It's Dusty and Cal Ripken for the Nats job so far?

Yeah, he should be doing a lot better than that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 19, 2015, 10:33:26 pm
The Marlins gave Larry Bowa a second interview.  I can't believe some team won't give Rick Renteria a second chance. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 19, 2015, 10:42:31 pm
It's Dusty and Cal Ripken for the Nats job so far?

Yeah, he should be doing a lot better than that.

Nah, they are longshots.

Favorites are Ron Wotus and Bud Black.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on October 19, 2015, 10:58:16 pm
The Marlins gave Larry Bowa a second interview.  I can't believe some team won't give Rick Renteria a second chance. 

Yeah no kidding. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 20, 2015, 07:38:38 am
Blue Jays ban beer cans in upper deck after ALDS ruckus

Quote
The Blue Jays reserved the right to cut off beer sales after the fifth inning if there are any problems.

http://www.foxsports.com/kansas-city/story/toronto-blue-jays-ban-beer-cans-in-upper-deck-after-alds-ruckus-101915 (http://www.foxsports.com/kansas-city/story/toronto-blue-jays-ban-beer-cans-in-upper-deck-after-alds-ruckus-101915)





Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 23, 2015, 10:21:40 am
Dodgers and Mattingly part ways in mutual agreement

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=13945880 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=13945880)


Given the Dodger's payroll, Mattingly had to feel enormous pressure to do more than win the NL West.   That showed in every camera shot I saw of him this year.  He always appeared tired and frustrated and just wasn't having any fun.  My guess is that finally got to him.   And who knows how he really got along with players like Andre Ethier?





Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 23, 2015, 10:37:27 am
Former Cub Scott Servais is going to be the Mariners new manager.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 23, 2015, 11:36:24 am
I met him one time.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: dev on October 23, 2015, 11:50:44 am
Former Cub Scott Servais is going to be the Mariners new manager.

Ha   Ha  Ha....
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13952756/scott-servais-named-seattle-mariners-manager
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on October 23, 2015, 01:07:34 pm
Ha   Ha  Ha....
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13952756/scott-servais-named-seattle-mariners-manager
Is Riggleman going to be hired to wash his car?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on October 23, 2015, 04:37:24 pm
Is Riggleman going to be hired to wash his car?


If KarenM was still around, she'd be pissed because of your question.


Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on October 23, 2015, 10:11:46 pm
I met him one time.

And still the Mariners are going t hire him....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 23, 2015, 10:51:08 pm
Question: we've seen several managers hired and fired.  Wasn't there supposed to be a moratorium on stuff like that until the World Series was over?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on October 24, 2015, 02:42:05 pm
No.

The moratorium starts on the day of the first game of the World Series and continues until the WS is over.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 24, 2015, 02:51:30 pm
Otherwise, you'd have a manager and coaching staff hanging for a month after the season--- until November.  That would make no sense at all. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 24, 2015, 03:01:36 pm
I guess my point is, these announcements have not hurt the playoffs.  I honestly don't believe they would hurt the WS either.  If the Commissioner wants to fix interest in the game, how about getting major networks carrying them instead of farming them out where some people and their kids don't even have access.  Commercials during the Super Bowl cost millions.  Nobody even bothers with interesting ads during the playoffs or WS.  Announce away.  Whatever draws the fans interest can only help the image.  That includes major trades.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 24, 2015, 04:00:19 pm
Ruben Amaro has been hired as the Red Sox first base coach.  Pretty big downgrade in jobs for him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 24, 2015, 07:30:56 pm
Interesting piece by Verducci.

He notes that Price rarely throws to 1B--perfect for Cubs.

More importantly, Price seems to be tipping his change-up and KC knew it.

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/10/24/royals-blue-jays-alcs-clinch-pennant
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 24, 2015, 07:54:48 pm
Curt- more $$ for the games when the are cable.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 24, 2015, 08:15:13 pm
Interesting piece by Verducci.

He notes that Price rarely throws to 1B--perfect for Cubs.

More importantly, Price seems to be tipping his change-up and KC knew it.

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/10/24/royals-blue-jays-alcs-clinch-pennant

Fascinating article. Just fascinating. Frankly I'm surprised the Royals guys were so candid.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 26, 2015, 10:24:45 am
Eric Fisher ‏@EricFisherSBJ  46m46 minutes ago
Former Red Sox GM Ben Cherington signs on as executive-in-residence for Columbia Univ. Sports Management Program
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ray on October 27, 2015, 05:22:37 pm
I think the cubs should hire the card's pi team....the lenny dykstra method would make sense as to why they won so many games this year.

http://www.thepostgame.com/heroes-villains/201510/former-mlb-star-i-used-private-investigators-blackmail-umps
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 27, 2015, 05:55:39 pm
Just saw on MLB Trade Rumors that the White Sox claimed Jacob Turner off waivers.  So apparently, the Cubs waived him sometime in the last few days.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 27, 2015, 05:58:08 pm
Dykstra has always been a screwball. I just assumed his vast improvement in Philly was PED related. He certainly showed some signs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 27, 2015, 06:09:37 pm
Stinks about Turner. It also seems odd to expose him to waivers. There isn't a roster crunch and it would seem like there are plenty of other less inferring players or pitchers to dump. I wonder if there is an issue with his rehab?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 27, 2015, 06:12:49 pm
Maybe this makes sense.  I remember a crucial call once when he threw his elbow out to block a throw to the plate when he was running home.  The umpires didn't call him out
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on October 27, 2015, 06:26:20 pm
He has a book out, right?  Sounds like he's trying to sell more copies.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 27, 2015, 10:04:36 pm
Lorenzo Cain trying to sacrifice bunt with a runner on second, no outs down by a run in the bottom of the 8th.  Royals deserve to lose the series just for that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 27, 2015, 10:16:04 pm
Mets out of the 8th, in part because the Royals wasted two strikes trying to sacrifice bunt with their best hitter.  Yost is terrible.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 27, 2015, 10:30:11 pm
Alex Gordon homers with 1 out in the 9th and takes Yost off the hook for the terrible sac bunt call.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 27, 2015, 10:47:45 pm
Jon Niese pitching the 10th inning on his 29th birthday, and on the 29th anniversary of the last Mets World Series championship.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 28, 2015, 12:15:54 am
Royals have first and third, no outs in the 14th.  Mets intentionally walk Cain.  Six innings ago, the Royals tried to sacrifice Cain with a runner already in scoring position.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 28, 2015, 12:19:05 am
Hosmer sac fly ends game 1.  Royals work around bad managing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 28, 2015, 12:26:53 am
The story of Marlins Man: Baseball's biggest fan and mysterious Twitter star

http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2015/10/unraveling_the_mystery_of_marlins_man_the_fan_who.html (http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2015/10/unraveling_the_mystery_of_marlins_man_the_fan_who.html)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on October 28, 2015, 09:25:43 am
Alex Gordon homers with 1 out in the 9th and takes Yost off the hook for the terrible sac bunt call.

Is there another manager out there who gets bailed out by his team as much as Yost?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 28, 2015, 09:50:30 am
Fox got a little carried away with some of their trivia in game one.   Were we supposed to get excited over the fact that somebody was the first player to come off the bench and have two hits and a stolen base in the same game? 

Joe Buck must be too polite to tell Harold Reynolds when he isn't making any sense.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 28, 2015, 10:04:25 am
Joe Buck must be too polite to tell Harold Reynolds when he isn't making any sense.

He'd spend the whole broadcast telling him that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on October 28, 2015, 10:28:28 am
I think Fox should hire Troy Aikman to do baseball color.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 28, 2015, 12:13:38 pm
Is there another manager out there who gets bailed out by his team as much as Yost?
Funny on how having talent works that way.  Seriously, the more flexible and multi-tooled talent you have, the more you can try stupid things, and when they work, you look like a genius, and when they don't you're still liable to get bailed out by another player.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on October 28, 2015, 08:27:50 pm
Bud Black is going to be the new Nationals manager. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 28, 2015, 08:41:42 pm
Should be a nice upgrade for them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 28, 2015, 09:07:52 pm
Amazing how a team that doesn't strike out every other at-bat can score on the Mets' pitching staff.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on October 28, 2015, 09:29:08 pm
Amazing how a team that doesn't strike out every other at-bat can score on the Mets' pitching staff.

de Grom had 19 swinging strikes against Cubs. Way less than that by KC. And, think maybe de Grom had better stuff tonight.

Cubs will have a really good offense in 2016---even with high Ks. But, think Theo will be filling an open spot or two with lower K guys. Better balance. Just common sense. Talked about this all season long.

KC not a model for every club but some things they do worth emulating when practical to do so. Not just putting ball in play but OF defense and tight bullpen too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 28, 2015, 09:46:10 pm
Every ball that the Mets caught against the Cubs is getting by the for the Royals. The Mets had 2 less strike outs against Cubs pitching, it wasn't the strike outs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 28, 2015, 10:56:09 pm
KC not a model for every club but some things they do worth emulating when practical to do so. Not just putting ball in play but OF defense and tight bullpen too.

There was a point midway though the season in which Phil Rogers claimed the Cubs were similar to last year's Royals save for the pen. I can't think of many teams more polar opposite that those two. Speed, defense, contact, RISP hitting.....the Royals' huge advantages in those areas are putting the Mets in their place thus far.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 28, 2015, 11:02:42 pm
Every ball that the Mets caught against the Cubs is getting by the for the Royals. The Mets had 2 less strike outs against Cubs pitching, it wasn't the strike outs.

The Mets' K's are irrelevant. The Royals have fanned 10 times in 21-2/3 innings. If you want to suggest it's not just strikeouts, well, no kidding. I mentioned other things the Royals do better that are helping them above. But KC's ability to put the ball in play and make hard contact even with two strikes is a major factor in what is occurring.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 28, 2015, 11:22:01 pm
The Mets K's didn't stop them from scoring. The Cubs had a lot of hard it balls right at people or the Mets made diving catches that they aren't making tonight. It is baseball, those types of things happen.

I would be very happy if the Cubs had a better defensive set up. I think they can do it with moving players around. The Cubs will never be a low K team. It would require getting rid of too many good players.  They can make improvements so they aren't as bad. Getting a bunch of hard throwers for the bullpen isn't something I'm opposed to.

FWIW former Mets players think that deGrom is tipping his pitches out the stretch to the Royals. They just aren't sure what he is doing. If there advanced scout figured out something on Price and deGrom he should get a raise.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on October 29, 2015, 08:40:57 am
Momentum and luck play a part this time of year.  The team with mo and confidence (and some luck) that day is more decisive...partial-step quicker to balls that might otherwise fall in and making good split-second decisions at the plate.

The two-strike hitting skills are also enhanced by experience.  The Royals' studs have been in the bigs (and together) several years now and have seen many thousands of electric, big league pitches, which is most all they see in the postseason.  No doubt, a short stroke also helps a lot.

I'm hopeful our young guys are significantly downfield a year from now, but they will still be quite young.  Let's hope their learning curve is really fast.  And that we get more playoff-level pitching!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 29, 2015, 09:17:57 am
Yes, there are a lot of factors in what has been happening in the playoffs.  Some luck (whether where the ball is hit, whether a defensive player happens to make a particularly good play on this ball rather than that one, ball and strike calls, whatever). But I don't see how anyone can seriously argue with Chris' main points about putting the ball in play, speed and outstanding defense being central factors for the Royals. It's what they do.

I would love for the Cubs to have outstanding power, low Ks, great speed and terrific defense, along with at least three TOR pitchers and a lights out bullpen. If they had that, it might be a cake-walk to the World Series (barring injuries of course).

But the strength of the Cub offense is power, and the Wild Card and NLDS demonstrated how devastating that can be. Unfortunately that does generally come with lots of strikeouts. Hopefully, as ben suggests, these young Cubs will be able to reduce their swings and misses over time - seems plausible. Soler has shown flashes of good plate judgment, and it seems like Russell might get better. Bryant probably won't improve a great deal and I don't know about Schwarber.  But I'm pretty sure that Reb is right (and has been all along) about Theo wanting a more balanced lineup - he's said as much.  The trick is going to be in pulling that off in a way that makes much real difference. Tinkering around the edges probably won't help a lot unless the youngsters improve significantly themselves.

The Cubs have amassed a remarkable collection of talented young hitters with power - something that is fairly rare these days.  We've talked about the idea of trading one of the prospects for some really good pitching.  Anybody think Theo would trade one of these guys for one or more players with better plate discipline, defense and speed?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on October 29, 2015, 09:26:16 am
There are a couple of guys in the minors who aren't terribly far away who could help with the balance, somewhat anyway.  Neither Willson Contreras nor Albert Almora are high strikeout guys and both could add, I gather, really good defense.  Hopefully they'll both make another jump in their progress in 2016 and join the Cubs before too long.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 29, 2015, 10:11:32 am
I wasn't arguing that the Royals are a contact team.  I wouldn't put the Cubs series against the Mets on strike outs.

The highest Royals K% for a starter was Gordon at 21.8%.  If you want the Cubs to be more like the Royals you are going to have to get rid Bryant, Schwarber, Russell, Monterero, Baez.  I think some of the Cubs young players will improve, but the Cubs as currently constructed are going to be a high K% team.  They can only improve around the edges.  You can get a couple more contact players in the starting line up so the Cubs won't be historically bad at striking out, but they will never be the Royals.

This is an interesting article about what happened last night.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-mets-werent-throwing-swing-and-miss-pitches/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on October 29, 2015, 01:05:48 pm
Mike Maddux out as the Rangers pitching coach.  I wonder if the Cubs can Greg to come back and do the spring training thing again.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 29, 2015, 03:29:33 pm
I'm rooting for the Royals, but I'll admit it hurts to watch the WS.  The Royals are doing to the Mets what I really expected the Cubs to do to the Mets.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 29, 2015, 06:39:06 pm
I havent watched it and dont intend to.

I'd rather watch D. Rose before he gets hurt again.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on October 30, 2015, 07:42:58 pm
Royals hitting Syndergaard all over the park.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on October 30, 2015, 08:11:39 pm
THOR!!!!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on October 31, 2015, 01:49:02 pm
Interesting story on how inflation and other economic factors are devastating baseball in Venezuela

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=14007064

The current Cubs rosters shows Hector Rondon, Miguel Montero, Yorvis Medina, and Jonathan Herrera as from there.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on October 31, 2015, 10:00:32 pm
Royals rally against the Mets pen, again. With help from a huge Daniel Murphy error.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on October 31, 2015, 10:25:54 pm
Royals rally against the Mets pen, again. With help from a huge Daniel Murphy error.
Now maybe Mets fans know how Buckner felt.  :)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on October 31, 2015, 11:40:08 pm
Infield D is huge!  Zobrist is REALLY going to get paid after his performance this post-season...he's just been terrific, offensively and in the field!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 01, 2015, 09:03:59 am
I've had a Zobrist crush for some time, but giving a 34 year old 4 years at $15 million is enough to make me want to take a pass.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 01, 2015, 02:22:37 pm
I've had a Zobrist crush for some time, but giving a 34 year old 4 years at $15 million is enough to make me want to take a pass.

As it will for any sane person.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 01, 2015, 09:10:13 pm
Greg Holland is going to be non-tendered by the Royals. He will likely miss the entire 2016 season, but if you signed him to a 2 year deal he might be an interesting way to get a high leverage reliever for 2017.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 01, 2015, 10:07:15 pm
Collins had decided to pull Harvey after 8 IP, but Harvey talked him into letting him start the 9th.  Good ol' Harold Reynolds said Collins "had no choice" but to let Harvey start the 9th inning.  Harvey gives up a walk and a double to the only batters he faced in the 9th.  Familia gets two ground outs, but Royals tie the game in the process when Duda throws the ball away while Hosmer scores tying run. A good throw would have had Hosmer out by several steps.

So Harvey's macho personality and Collins' willingness to give in to it (along with poor defense) probably cost Harvey the win, and may enable the Royals to finish off the Mets to win the World Series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on November 01, 2015, 10:21:13 pm
Not sure why Harvey wanting to finish the game makes him "macho". Don't think it was a surefire decision either. Hard to blame the manager for leaving in a guy with an 8-inning shutout.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 01, 2015, 10:57:14 pm
Collins had decided to pull Harvey after 8 IP, but Harvey talked him into letting him start the 9th.  Good ol' Harold Reynolds said Collins "had no choice" but to let Harvey start the 9th inning.  Harvey gives up a walk and a double to the only batters he faced in the 9th.  Familia gets two ground outs, but Royals tie the game in the process when Duda throws the ball away while Hosmer scores tying run. A good throw would have had Hosmer out by several steps.

So Harvey's macho personality and Collins' willingness to give in to it (along with poor defense) probably cost Harvey the win, and may enable the Royals to finish off the Mets to win the World Series.

He not only had Harvey arguing to keep him in the game but the entire CitiField crowd. 

Sometimes it's tough to follow your gut when you have all that pressure going against you.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 01, 2015, 10:59:45 pm
I wonder if Familia blowing saves had anything to do with it?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 01, 2015, 11:03:05 pm
That camera view behind the pitcher showing Dyson leading off of second and Flores trying to keep him honest is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 01, 2015, 11:07:22 pm
3-2 Royals . . . Wow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on November 01, 2015, 11:07:26 pm
Perez single to lead off the 12th. Dyson pinch runs and steals second. Ground out to the right side moves him to third. Guy taking hits first AB in the postseason drives him in with a line drive single. Royals are easy to like.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 01, 2015, 11:09:38 pm
After destroying the Cubs, Daniel Murphy has turned into utter crap.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 01, 2015, 11:10:28 pm
I wish the World Series version of Daniel Murphy had showed up in the NLCS. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 01, 2015, 11:10:47 pm
I wish the World Series version of Daniel Murphy had showed up in the NLCS. 

Ha!  No kidding.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 01, 2015, 11:12:56 pm
Kind of cool to see Christian Colon get the go ahead hit.  He's been viewed as a first round bust for the Royals, and it seems like he's on the Omaha Storm Chasers roster every time they've been to Nashville the last few seasons.

Maybe the Royals won't regret taking him 4th overall if they win this game after all.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on November 01, 2015, 11:23:06 pm
Thanks god the Royals' suffering is over after 30 years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on November 01, 2015, 11:32:46 pm
It's 12:30 am on Monday, November 2, and they are playing the World Series.  This is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 01, 2015, 11:35:52 pm
Terry Collins will have nightmares about the last two games for the next 5 months.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 01, 2015, 11:47:56 pm
Great job by Baseball Prospectus and their PECOTA system for projecting Royals to finish season at 72-90. Guess Royals snuck up on them as defending 2014 AL pennant winners.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on November 02, 2015, 12:12:26 am
Yost just said he's been to 8 World Series and lost 7. Wow
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 02, 2015, 12:55:57 am
Congrats to the Royals and just think they were 6 outs away from getting eliminated in the ALDS. The playoffs are weird.

So which moment is the Buckner, Murphy's error or Duda's throw?

Murphy just needs Cy Young worthy pitching to hit off of.

Now, it is time for some fun in the off season.  The Cubs have so many directions they could go. Do the buy the high priced pitcher, sign a lower tier guy, trade bats for pitching, who do they lose in the Rule 5?  This off season is going to be fun.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2015, 07:54:56 am
The Royals really are a fun team to watch.  No question.

Interesting thing about Hosmer scoring the tying run is that the TV crew kept talking about what a great play it was on Hosmer's part.  Problem is that a decent throw by Duda would have had him out easily and that would have ended the inning and the chance  for the Royals to tie the game. Not sure they would have been raving about what a heads up play it was then.

Given the article discussing the excellent advance scouting by the Royals, maybe they knew Duda was terrible at throwing home. If so, then it was a good risk I guess. But with a Rizzo-type 1B, he would have been a dead duck resulting in an inning (and rally) ending DP. 

But maybe this is just Royals baseball and they are willing to live and die with that sort of very aggressive baserunning.  It does seem to work for them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on November 02, 2015, 08:35:29 am
Good point, Ron.  Think it would have taken a very fine throw to get him, since the catcher would have to receive it and redirect to apply the tag.  But yeah, a good throw and he's out, different story. 

Real games often hinge on quick decisions, and on execution by opponent, not just on what you do.  In first Mets game, Castro tried to score, and got thrown out.  If he'd run out of the box he'd have been at 3B instead of 2B in the first place.  A bad quick decision on his part on his own hit; then good execution on Cespedes throw.  If either had differed, run in.  Happens often. 

The Royals are fun to watch.  Compared to the HR-approach, there is just more story drama when runners get on base, you have an inning brewing, balls are hit, fielders need to make plays, base runners need to run bases.  When there are bases loaded and no outs, you know the game is in the balance.  HR's come in a blink.  Living on the HR, who knows which the 150 pitches is the one that might be hit out and change the game?  And who can judge which of the 150 pitches were the key missed-opportunities for hitters when they don't hit out?  The HR game just doesn't have the same story flow.  Doesn't mean it isn't a pretty efficient way to get the job done, though. 

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on November 02, 2015, 08:45:08 am
Much of the World Series story has been the Royals brand of offense, and the Mets losing leads.  Still, when you look at three of those games, the Mets got 2 hits (Cueto), 4 hits (Volquez), and 6 hits in the Chris Young start.  Cueto, Volquez, and Young aren't exactly the TORP expensive starters we want Theo to have.  But pitchers like that, combined with a good bullpen, combined with sometimes hard Mets contact that went straight to fielders, that got it done.  If those three guys come back next October, will we expect them to be starting games where the opposition gets 2, 4, or 6 hits total?  Not necessarily.  Just as if Arrieta, Lester, Hendricks, and Hammel came back next October, they might not give up nearly as many hits or runs as they did this Mets series. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ben on November 02, 2015, 08:50:54 am
Yes, Craig, the Royals anti-strikeout approach works great, but HRs are still very efficient.  We will vastly improve our strikeout issues in time...and still have the HR threats.

Experience REALLY helps!  The Royals' studs have been together for SEVERAL years. 

It takes experience to learn how to execute pitch-by-pitch in the most critical games, as the Royals did.  They weren't ready to get that done until these last two seasons.

Our guys will get there.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 02, 2015, 08:55:09 am
You can argue about whether he's going to justify what he's going to be paid going forward, but the Cueto of the last two seasons is certainly a TORP.

I think the WS is interesting in that it shows that there are many ways to succeed in baseball.  The Mets got there behind tremendous power SP.  The Royals built a team of scrappers who win with defense, baserunning, being tough outs and with a terrific bullpen.  The Cubs got as far as they did mostly behind straight-out bombers and the 3-run HR - Earl Weaver would have been proud.

I think the point here is that there's not only 1 way to get ahead in baseball, and K.C. and N.Y.'s success doesn't mean we have to copy them to win it all.  But the Cubs can try to become a little more like them without scrapping the whole shebang and changing their identity.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on November 02, 2015, 09:16:59 am
Ditto.  All kinds of ways to end up scoring more runs than the other team.  And certainly incremental improvements in any aspect of the complex game can help. 

One question is whether the HR-oriented approach is particularly ill-suited to playoff baseball?  Do home runs come mostly on mistakes and off bad pitchers, and are they a tool better suited to regular-season long-haul than the short-series baseball against high-end teams? 

I don't actually think so.  I almost think that the better the opposing pitching, the more progressively difficult it becomes to sequence multiple hits in one inning.  (Particularly in National League series with no DH).  Playoff pitchers don't usually allow lots of hits.  With all of the off days and large amounts to rest, managers can often get by using only their favorite several relievers. 

So bunching hits is perhaps harder than ever.  Perhaps the periodic "blink" HR is as or more accessible?  Even the best pitchers still makes some mistakes, if you can punish them, and sometimes even even excellent pitches can be driven out.  I think we basically beat Cain that way in the dramatic Pirates tie-breaker.  So I don't really think the high value for HR-power is at all inappropriate for playoff success.  But it would be nice to be able to score in multiple ways; in the Cardinal series some walks and suicide squeeze plays did that, for example. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2015, 09:21:48 am
You can argue about whether he's going to justify what he's going to be paid going forward, but the Cueto of the last two seasons is certainly a TORP.

I think the WS is interesting in that it shows that there are many ways to succeed in baseball.  The Mets got there behind tremendous power SP.  The Royals built a team of scrappers who win with defense, baserunning, being tough outs and with a terrific bullpen.  The Cubs got as far as they did mostly behind straight-out bombers and the 3-run HR - Earl Weaver would have been proud.

I think the point here is that there's not only 1 way to get ahead in baseball, and K.C. and N.Y.'s success doesn't mean we have to copy them to win it all.  But the Cubs can try to become a little more like them without scrapping the whole shebang and changing their identity.

Yes. All of the above.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 02, 2015, 09:24:17 am
This October really was a tale of the hot team.  Cubs were hot coming in, then the Mets got hot and cooled in the finals, Houston and Toronto were hot coming in, cooled, Kansas City was just Kansas City.  Just steady.

Good Series.  At least the colors were right. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 02, 2015, 09:49:49 am
One question is whether the HR-oriented approach is particularly ill-suited to playoff baseball?  Do home runs come mostly on mistakes and off bad pitchers, and are they a tool better suited to regular-season long-haul than the short-series baseball against high-end teams? 

I don't think there is one way to win a playoff baseball games.  The best way is to be the hot team at that moment and have the breaks go your way.  I believe the Royals scored something like 40 runs after the 8th inning in this playoff period.  The next closest was 5. 

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN  3h3 hours ago
Of all the crazy Royals' numbers, this might be the best: KC scored 40 runs this postseason 8th inning/later, no other team had more than 5

To put it another way, the Blue Jays tied for second in BB% with Cubs, had the 5th lowest K% and the highest ISO and highest wRC+ (117.  Giants were second at 107) and they still lost to the Royals.  The Braves with 3 HOF pitchers in their starting rotation one 1 World Series.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 02, 2015, 11:38:49 am
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-lessons-the-royals-should-and-shouldnt-teach-us/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 02, 2015, 12:47:40 pm
Fangraphs projections had Royals at 79-83 going into the season. Not too hot a projection.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2015, 01:27:27 pm
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-lessons-the-royals-should-and-shouldnt-teach-us/

Thanks for the link.  Seems like a pretty good analysis to me.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 02, 2015, 01:52:45 pm
Vegas has already installed the Dodgers instaled as 8 to 1 favorites for next year.  Cubs are 10 to 1 with 3 or 4 other teams.  Kansas City already disrespected at 18 to 1.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on November 02, 2015, 02:38:12 pm
Would you have rather ended the season the way the Cubs did (getting swept, looking generally overmatched in the series, never leading in a single game), or the way the Blue Jays or Mets did - having leads in most games, winning a game or two, having your closer on the mound during 3 eventual losses, making big mistakes on defense, etc..

I don't like the Mets, so it didn't bother me a bit to see them blow leads, play tight, and lose the way they did.  But that had to pretty painful, for fans and players alike.  As a franchise with perhaps a still somewhat fragile psyche, I think the quick 'n' ugly sweep (after winning the Pirates game and Cards series) was actually an ok way to bow out.  Motivating, but hopefully not damaging.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 02, 2015, 02:42:37 pm
Mets got to the World Series. Uh, think Cubs getting to World Series in 2015 would have been sweet.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 02, 2015, 02:50:24 pm
Used to be that winning the pennant was, by itself, a really big deal. Now, it's just kind of a step in advancing to the final round. Like winning the NFC or whatever.

I'm thinking of Russ Hodges and THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT!-THE GIANTS WIN THE PENNANT! Kind of outshone the World Series that year, in a way.

For me-- still--winning the pennant would be a really big deal--and then work from there.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dihard on November 02, 2015, 02:50:42 pm
Well, yeah, there is that.  :)  I was just looking at the manner they exited, not the round.  Obviously, especially in the Cubs' case, getting to the WS and losing in any fashion > any exit prior to that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 02, 2015, 03:03:52 pm
Yeah, guessing I will think of this season similar to 1989 when didn't get all that close to beating Giants in NLCS---and not so much like the agony of 1984 and 2003 outcomes.

For me, 1984 was the worst---even more than 2003. Cubs were best team in NL hands down in 1984.

Other season was 1970---year after the 1969 debacle. NL was there for the taking in 1970 and that club should have won division and moved on. Probably residue of 1969 and Leo had lost the clubhouse by then. A horrible, missed opportunity.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 02, 2015, 03:09:35 pm
Quote
---even more than 2003.

I'll say one thing about 2003 . . . the Cubs were playing better than anyone in the league up until 5 outs to go in Game 6.  The lineup had great balance to it, and the pitching was deep and strong with Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Clement, etc. 

That team was terrific from September onward.  Just too bad they couldn't finish off the Marlins in Game 6. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 02, 2015, 03:16:47 pm
Agree that the worst post-season loss for me was 1984.  The Cubs were expected to go to the World Series and should have.  Very painful.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on November 02, 2015, 03:35:40 pm
Vegas has already installed the Dodgers instaled as 8 to 1 favorites for next year.  Cubs are 10 to 1 with 3 or 4 other teams.  Kansas City already disrespected at 18 to 1.


If I were a betting man, I'd put some money on the San Francisco Giants.  It'll be an even numbered year so they're due for their 4th championship during this decade.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 02, 2015, 04:15:05 pm
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-royals-were-historically-clutch-obviously/

There is a graph in the article and the Royals were the 3rd most clutch team when you added up the timely hitting, starting pitching and relievers.  The 2015 Cardinals were the 4th most clutch team and it was all do to their starters and relievers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 02, 2015, 04:16:23 pm
Worst one for me was 2003.  Like Dusty, I went into a depression for weeks.  With such a horrible collapse, I had no expectations that the team would rebound the next year.   That's what makes this year different.  I believe these kids will continue to get better.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 02, 2015, 04:45:17 pm
Cardinals have exercised their option of 11.5M on Garcia.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on November 02, 2015, 04:50:40 pm

For me, 1984 was the worst---even more than 2003. Cubs were best team in NL hands down in 1984.

Other season was 1970---year after the 1969 debacle. NL was there for the taking in 1970 and that club should have won division and moved on. Probably residue of 1969 and Leo had lost the clubhouse by then. A horrible, missed opportunity.


'08 Cubs were the best team in the NL as well. Scored more runs than any American League team but one. They had a stronger SRS (run diff & SOS) than the '84 team. Laid an egg against the Dodgers. Were never close to the WS like the '84 team but a huge wasted opportunity.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on November 02, 2015, 05:10:24 pm
2003 was also the worst for me.  2008 (like 1984) was a great team that fell victim to the crapshoot that is playoff baseball.  Kinda like this year.  In 2003, they had it won.  Until they didn't.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on November 02, 2015, 05:39:38 pm
When I watched them lose game 5 in Miami, I wasn't too worried knowing that our aces were ready for games 6 and (if necessary) 7. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on November 02, 2015, 05:54:59 pm
Two horrendous Baker moves helped lose that series as well, always overlooked in the G6 drama.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on November 02, 2015, 06:17:46 pm
'84 was painful

'03 was heart-crushing

'08 just pissed me off
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 02, 2015, 06:18:11 pm
It's really impossible for me to choose whether '84 or '03 was the worst - they were both pure agony.

This year isn't remotely as painful, party because we didn't come nearly as close, and partly because beating the Cards and getting to the NLCS was a huge surprise and giant leap forward.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 02, 2015, 07:21:48 pm
Great job by Baseball Prospectus and their PECOTA system for projecting Royals to finish season at 72-90. Guess Royals snuck up on them as defending 2014 AL pennant winners.

I have never thought very highly of PECOTA.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 02, 2015, 07:27:08 pm
The Royals are fun to watch.  Compared to the HR-approach, there is just more story drama when runners get on base, you have an inning brewing, balls are hit, fielders need to make plays, base runners need to run bases.  When there are bases loaded and no outs, you know the game is in the balance.  HR's come in a blink.  Living on the HR, who knows which the 150 pitches is the one that might be hit out and change the game?  And who can judge which of the 150 pitches were the key missed-opportunities for hitters when they don't hit out?  The HR game just doesn't have the same story flow.  Doesn't mean it isn't a pretty efficient way to get the job done, though.

Imagine how much more exciting the game would be if all outfield fences were raised by 10 feet and all outfield walls were pushed back by 30 feet....  While there were at it, they could change the rules to allow a walk on three balls and automate the strike zone, forcing pitchers to groove a lot of pitches and putting the ball into play.  Might resemble old pinball games....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 02, 2015, 07:32:05 pm
Vegas has already installed the Dodgers instaled as 8 to 1 favorites for next year.  Cubs are 10 to 1 with 3 or 4 other teams.  Kansas City already disrespected at 18 to 1.

Betting lines have little to nothing to do with the probability of an outcome and almost everything to do with betting activity.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 02, 2015, 07:58:51 pm
Yeah, guessing I will think of this season similar to 1989 when didn't get all that close to beating Giants in NLCS---and not so much like the agony of 1984 and 2003 outcomes.

For me, 1984 was the worst---even more than 2003. Cubs were best team in NL hands down in 1984.

Other season was 1970---year after the 1969 debacle. NL was there for the taking in 1970 and that club should have won division and moved on. Probably residue of 1969 and Leo had lost the clubhouse by then. A horrible, missed opportunity.

1989 was not emotionally as difficult because Cub fans simply did not expect the Cubs to win that series.  We were way over-matched.  I know we had home field that year, and a slightly better record (one game), but I was at the opening game in the series, and it seemed like all of us at the game (and that certainly included me) simply expected the Cubs to lose.  The Giants that year had an OPS+ of 104, while the Cubs were at a 95.  The Giants had a team ERA of 3.30 while the Cubs had a team ERA of 3.43.  Even thought the Cub playoff rotation matched up very favorably to the Giants, it simply felt from the Start as if the Cubs were going to lose.  Nothing at all like '84 or 2003 or '69.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 02, 2015, 09:03:51 pm
Heyman just tweeted that Bud Black isn't a done deal for the Nationals, and they might actually be leaning towards Dusty Baker.  If so, congratulations to the Mets on their back-to-back NL East titles.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 02, 2015, 11:12:30 pm
Nightengale tweeted that the Nats only offered Black 2 years with team options. If you are going to hire a former Cubs manager at least go for Renteria.

Strausberg needs to get out town ASAP.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 03, 2015, 07:35:57 am
Quote
If you are going to hire a former Cubs manager at least go for Renteria.

One thing I thought about after the Royals won was that it probably means Dale Sveum gets another chance to manage before Renteria does, which would be a shame.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on November 03, 2015, 07:41:15 am
It's official.  Dusty Baker will be the next manager of the Nationals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 03, 2015, 07:51:34 am
It's official.  Dusty Baker will be the next manager of the Nationals.

Wow. There was a time that Mike Rizzo was thought to be a really good GM.  I'm stunned that he would hire Dusty, who, as far as I can tell, is immune to all of the contemporary developments in baseball analysis and strategy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 03, 2015, 09:49:04 am
The only thing I'm wondering is if they he can straighten out the clubhouse issues.  On MLB radio they mentioned that the Nats opening offer to Black was $1.6 million for 1 year and club options. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on November 03, 2015, 10:01:12 am
As critical as Cub fans are of Dusty, much of which has merit, I have to say the guy wins.  He won in SF, he won in Cincy, he won two divisions in Chicago.  I don't like his methods, I certainly don't want him back ever, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Nationals play up to their potential the next few years until Dusty ruins whats left of their young arms. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on November 03, 2015, 11:57:08 am
Like Robb, I expect Dusty to do pretty well with the Nationals.  One of the biggest problems with Washington last year was the clubhouse and manager-player communication, and Dusty excels at this.  Were I the Mets looking to repeat in the East, I would have been happier with Bud Black as Nats manager.

It's not the choice I would have made, but it could work out really well for the Nats.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on November 03, 2015, 12:37:06 pm
Aside from the pitchers, Rendon is gonna jump off a building. Baker is awful.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 03, 2015, 12:45:53 pm
The Nationals are talented.  I think Baker will win games for them, he just may kill Strausberg and Gialito to do it.  As much as I want to blame him for Prior's injury problems I think it was the collision with the Braves second basemen and maybe 1 other that destroyed his shoulder. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 03, 2015, 12:47:24 pm
Wow. There was a time that Mike Rizzo was thought to be a really good GM.  I'm stunned that he would hire Dusty, who, as far as I can tell, is immune to all of the contemporary developments in baseball analysis and strategy.

Not a Rizzo decision. An ownership decision.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on November 03, 2015, 12:54:43 pm
Strausberg?? Really?



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 03, 2015, 12:55:16 pm
I still like Dusty Baker.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on November 03, 2015, 01:17:11 pm
Dusty can wipe out entire German cities.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on November 03, 2015, 01:26:20 pm
LOL, I guess so
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 03, 2015, 04:01:14 pm
Not a Rizzo decision. An ownership decision.

Seriously? The Lerners would not let Rizzo pick his own manager?  That's creepy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 03, 2015, 05:06:01 pm
Seriously? The Lerners would not let Rizzo pick his own manager?  That's creepy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/11/03/after-bud-black-negotiations-leave-the-nationals-shifting-to-dusty-baker-the-lerner-family-has-a-fiasco-on-its-hands/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_kilgore844am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 03, 2015, 05:23:56 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/11/03/after-bud-black-negotiations-leave-the-nationals-shifting-to-dusty-baker-the-lerner-family-has-a-fiasco-on-its-hands/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_kilgore844am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Amazing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on November 03, 2015, 05:44:31 pm
Fitting, I suppose, that the MLB and NFL franchises in Washington DC should be run so poorly.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 03, 2015, 06:03:44 pm
Now I understand.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/11/03/new-nats-manager-dusty-baker-once-smoked-a-joint-with-jimi-hendrix/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 03, 2015, 06:41:15 pm
I heard that story earlier today.

Ive got a few similiar storys with some well known wrestlers from my wrestling days.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 03, 2015, 07:11:11 pm
Seriously? The Lerners would not let Rizzo pick his own manager?  That's creepy.

I guess the Nationals have decided to take the Tennessee Titans road to successful sports franchise management . . .
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 03, 2015, 07:35:14 pm
By the way, if anyone feels like reliving what it was like to be a Cubs fan circa 1992-93, become a Tennessee Titans fan.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 03, 2015, 07:43:47 pm
I didnt know there were any.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 03, 2015, 08:13:42 pm
As critical as Cub fans are of Dusty, much of which has merit, I have to say the guy wins.  He won in SF, he won in Cincy, he won two divisions in Chicago.  I don't like his methods, I certainly don't want him back ever, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Nationals play up to their potential the next few years until Dusty ruins whats left of their young arms. 

He has been a manager in the majors for 20 years.  He has once in those 20 years won the league championship and made it to the WS.   As an NL manager the entire time, his team was one of 14 in the league for his first five seasons managing in the majors, and his team was one of 16 teams for his next 14 seasons and one of 15 teams for the last season.  He won the league championship once, which is just slightly less than you would have expected a manager to do in 20 years with that number of teams if the outcome were determined by nothing more than random chance.

His teams' average finish has been 2.7, out of an average number of teams of 5.45.... meaning an average finish of 2.7 would be, pretty much average.

Teams he has managed have made it to the WS once, and lost, helping make up his overall post-season W/L percentage as a manager as .422.  He has had an overall W/L% of .522.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 04, 2015, 03:26:08 pm
It sounds like the Nationals are going to hire Mike Maddux to be the pitching coach. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 04, 2015, 04:28:36 pm
Oh my.  I hope they have a camera on him and Dusty in the dugout.  High drama.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 04, 2015, 05:13:18 pm
Olney's podcast today had him, Kurkjian, and Nightengale kicking around FA names.

All three had Cardinals in heavily on David Price.  Cards have had interest in Price for over a year but, with new big cable deal, looks like they'll have the cash to make a serious run.  And, may well retain Heyward too with that cash--so they surmised. 

Nightengale had Cubs in on Lackey and Zimmermann.  Olney seemed to think Cubs are the favorite for Price.  All three thought Gordon going back to Royals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 04, 2015, 06:38:09 pm
Cards have had interest in Price for over a year but, with new big cable deal, looks like they'll have the cash to make a serious run.  And, may well retain Heyward too with that cash--so they surmised. 

This sounds like a team that needs another competitive balance draft pick next season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on November 04, 2015, 08:44:41 pm
Why wouldnt they deserve a competive balance pick?

They use their limited resources very well... that by no means puts them in the same league as big market teams like the cubs in terms of total resources.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: vander-built on November 04, 2015, 08:48:16 pm
Olney's info may be the best on Price.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 04, 2015, 08:49:12 pm
Lol
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on November 04, 2015, 08:57:34 pm
Why wouldnt they deserve a competive balance pick?

They didn't get a competitive balance pick this year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 04, 2015, 09:12:23 pm
The Cards TV deal doesn't start until 2018.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 04, 2015, 09:28:04 pm
Yeah, and 2018 going forward would cover the bulk of any multi-year deal with Price. (Plus, Cards current deal escalates in 2016 and 2017).

Meanwhile, any Cubs mega-deal might have to wait to 2020---5th year of a Price contract.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 04, 2015, 09:43:41 pm
For this year the Cubs made $68.5 million in local TV rights. The Cards current deal tops out at $35 million in 2017. Their new deal starts at $55 million. They aren't getting an unlimited budget.

The Cards had a $122 million payroll in 2015. They currently have $101.725 million committed, plus $27 million in arb raises that they could decrease to $9.2 million by non tendering Moss, Cishek, Bourjos and Cruz. To sign Price they would have to raise the payroll to around $150 and fill the rest of the roster with major league minimums.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 04, 2015, 10:10:38 pm
1. Cards have had higher payroll than Cubs for past 4 seasons. They are pretty consistently in top 10 payrolls.

2. Cards have a bigger ballpark. Drew more than 3.5 million each of last 2 seasons. Cubs all-time high is 3.3, with limited luxury suites.

3. Nobody really knows what the cable/games rights market will be after 2019, when Cubs have new deal. Uncertainty means more difficult to make long-term commitments now. Cards have more cost certainty because their deal is now in place. So, they can better know how Price fits going forward.

4. Cubs have debt ratio benchmarks that limit what they can spend on payroll. Cards don't have that issue.

So, Cards have some advantages. That will change for 2020 season but there are four seasons to play until then.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 04, 2015, 10:20:06 pm
Cards have an extensive "territory," extending to central and southern Indiana, even poaching some Reds and Cub fans, central and southern Illinois, most of Kentucky, most of Tennessee, all of Arkansas, all of eastern Missouri, but still have tentacles into western Missouri and Kansas from pre-Athletics and Royals days.  Southeastern Iowa as well.  We lived in Arkansas for a bit and still vacation there.  All you hear and see is Cardinals.  They ain't hurtin' for base as big as most big city teams.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 04, 2015, 10:44:28 pm

....The Cards had a $122 million payroll in 2015. They currently have $101.725 million committed, plus $27 million in arb raises that they could decrease to $9.2 million by non tendering Moss, Cishek, Bourjos and Cruz. To sign Price they would have to raise the payroll to around $150 and fill the rest of the roster with major league minimums.

1. If Cards sign Price, they will certainly trade J. Garcia.  That's a $11.5 savings.  Leaves them with rotation of Price-Wainwright-Martinez-Wacha-Lynn.  Pretty nice.

2. So, with likely arb guys tendered, that's just under $100 committed (99.4). 

3. Have ton of key non-arb guys: Wacha, Grichik, Siegrist, Wong, C. Martinez, Piscotty.  Plus, G. Garcia, Pham, Lyons, Harris, M. Gonzales, Cooney. That's another $8 or so, total for 12 guys.

That's 24 players at $108 or so.  So, they could add Price and be well under $150 for 2016.

4. By 2017 season, their commitments go down to $65.5 and down again to $33.25 in 2017. So, thinking long-range, they will have to decide how much they can spend in 2016 with their roster mix beyond 2016. Don't have debt ratio issues like Cubs do, so can pay more now if they wish. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 04, 2015, 10:45:09 pm
There arent tons of Cards fans in Tennessee.

There are quite a few Reds fans here but make no mistake that I live right in the heart of Braves country.

I would think the Cubs would place 3rd above the Cards.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 04, 2015, 10:51:55 pm
There arent tons of Cards fans in Tennessee.

There are quite a few Reds fans here but make no mistake that I live right in the heart of Braves country.

I would think the Cubs would place 3rd above the Cards.
Isn't western Tennessee, especially around Memphis littered with Card fans?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 04, 2015, 10:58:52 pm
I would think so.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 04, 2015, 11:03:52 pm
When you consider Western Tennessee I'd bet the Cards take 3rd from the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 04, 2015, 11:30:03 pm
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/froa2mshyyikwywszwfs.jpg
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 04, 2015, 11:32:26 pm
The Cards have a wide base, but what is population like? 

$138 million with very little veteran depth. 2017 is up to $100 million with Martinez, Wacha, Seigrist and Wong entering the arbitration. They would have 2 years oh a much higher payroll without the extra TV money to cover it.

The Cards attendance is maxed out. The Cubs have an additional 400,000 ($17.66 million at the average ticket price) they can add plus the suites are coming as well. The average Cubs ticket for cheap seats is $44.16.  Cardinals is $33.84.  Cubs premium tickets are $110.49 vs $80.65. Just taking the average ticket price the Cubs would bring in more revenue at 2.9 million fans vs the Cards at 3.4 million.   The Cubs have a lot more ways to increase revenue, including raising ticket prices and sticking an ad on everything they can.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 05, 2015, 12:04:34 am
Isn't western Tennessee, especially around Memphis littered with Card fans?

Yeah West Tennessee is heavy Cardinals country.  Middle and East Tennessee have more Braves fans.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 05, 2015, 04:34:26 am
Obviously, Cubs have a bigger market than St.L and, in long run, have more revenue capacity. But, Cards have been outspending Cubs payroll 4 years in a row and counting.

And, there is the elephant in the room for next few seasons: debt service and MLB debt ratio rules. Cubs cannot spend whatever they want. And, revenue increases thru 2019 will be incremental. No reason at all to think Cubs will be outspending Cards for next few seasons. And, Cards have a $1 billion TV deal in place---and Cubs don't.

Theo and Ricketts keeps repeating same thing over and over and over: big revenues don't start until after 2019. We should listen to them. They are telling you something that should not be ignored. If you are expecting a massive payroll increase in 2016, guessing you will be disappointed.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 05, 2015, 08:00:07 am
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/froa2mshyyikwywszwfs.jpg
Very cool map, Reb.  But I think Cardinal strength is even stronger than that.  That's from Facebook.  Most Cardinal fans are illiterate douchebags who don't even have electricity.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on November 05, 2015, 08:10:35 am
Here are the MLB blackout areas

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/MLB_Blackout_Areas.png/1164px-MLB_Blackout_Areas.png)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 05, 2015, 08:13:56 am
Looking at that map, I see all the Yankee fans in the South.  Some old Confederates are rolling in their graves.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: OkieCubsFan on November 05, 2015, 08:27:11 am
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/froa2mshyyikwywszwfs.jpg

What's with the random Pirates counties in Oklahoma and Idaho?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 05, 2015, 08:33:40 am
Okie, I think there are some sections in black and orange where there is no clear distinction.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 05, 2015, 08:13:52 pm
First trade of the offseason. Mariners get Karns +2 from the Rays for Miller +2.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 05, 2015, 09:35:27 pm
Rays have/had a lot of starting pitching depth, so figured to trade a starting pitcher but like Seattle getting Karns. Try to get to Camden Yards couple times a year and saw Karns there in May or June against O's. Very impressed with Karns. Not a velocity guy anymore but much better off-speed stuff than used to have with Nats. Seattle got a good pitcher. Guess Castro isn't going to Rays now that they acquired Miller.

Olney tweeted tonight that ton of trade talk going on now around baseball.

Tomorrow at 5:00 Eastern is deadline for adding Rule 5 exposure guys to the 40 and also for making QO to FAs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 05, 2015, 09:35:49 pm
Boog?  They traed Boog?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 05, 2015, 10:56:49 pm
First trade of the offseason. Mariners get Karns +2 from the Rays for Miller +2.

Is that WAR or the Phil Rogers Trade Scoring System?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on November 06, 2015, 12:07:51 am

Olney tweeted tonight that ton of trade talk going on now around baseball.

Tomorrow at 5:00 Eastern is deadline for adding Rule 5 exposure guys to the 40 and also for making QO to FAs.

The deadline for the Winter roster is November 20, not November 5.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 06, 2015, 02:47:24 am
The deadline for the Winter roster is November 20, not November 5.

You're right. Thinking of the 6-year minor league FAs who, according to AZ Phil, have a deadline Friday (5 days after end of WS), to sign another contract or, alternatively, be placed on the 40. If sign a successor contract, can still be placed on the 40 later by the 11/20 deadline. This includes Contreras, F. Pena, and Pimentel. Thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on November 06, 2015, 08:25:26 am
I think it would be nice if they bumped up the QO deadline. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 06, 2015, 09:49:22 am
Is that WAR or the Phil Rogers Trade Scoring System?

A bunch of names that I didn't want to try and spell on my phone, but it could be the Phil Rogers scoring system.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 06, 2015, 10:33:00 am
John Lackey has gotten a qualifying offer from the Cardinals, so hopefully that takes him off the Cubs list.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on November 06, 2015, 12:25:34 pm
Matt Williams may be returning to the Diamondbacks as a 3B coach
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 06, 2015, 04:07:29 pm
No qualifying offer for Denard Span.  So it's still possible the Cubs could sign him...but the fact that the Nationals didn't offer him a QO tells me that they're not too optimistic that he's going to be fully healthy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 06, 2015, 04:11:45 pm
I think it is he is going to be looking for a 1 year contract and $15 million is more than he will get on the open market.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 06, 2015, 04:18:01 pm
He may ultimately look for/take a one year contract.  But I doubt he's so set on it right now that he'd lock in the one year before testing free agency.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 07, 2015, 12:43:50 am
Alex Reyes, Cards prospect, was pulled out of the AFL after a side throwing session Wednessday. No announcement of injury was made, but he was schedule to be in the All Star game.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 07, 2015, 02:50:25 am
Players who want a one-year contract are rare. Pitchers coming off TJ or guys who were truly horrid the previous season.

Span was really good before he was injured and before he had a futile two-game comeback attempt in August. His numbers were significantly above his career norm and he had 275 PAs, which is not insignificant either. 

Mike Cuddyer is an example.  Had only 205 PAs in 2014 but good numbers.  He actually got a QO at $15.4 or whatever it was a year ago, but turned it down to take a 2 year/$21 deal with Mets. By and large, players want a multi-year--if they can get it.  If Span only gets 1-year offers, obviously that's what he'll take. But, if he can get multi-year, very likely he will take that--even if lower annual average.

Maybe he has a different strategy.  Every agent/player is a bit different.  But, think likely he's looking for something beyond 1 year.  In the end, it will all about his medicals and how each interested club evaluates them.  If he looks like a bad bet, even 1-year is not appealing.  Imagine if Cubs are committed to Span for CF in 2016 and he can't play.  Big problem.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 08, 2015, 09:59:35 pm
The winning bid for the Korean 1B, Park, was $12+ million.

Only the Pirates, Brewers, Reds, Phillies, Twins, Astros, Cubs and White Sox haven't said it wasn't them. I would guess you could elminate the White Sox, Cubs, Reds, Phillies and Brewers as well.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 08, 2015, 10:30:49 pm
nominate?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 08, 2015, 10:38:01 pm
Elminate. My damn iPhone's autocorrect with my bad spelling is a scary thing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 09, 2015, 08:12:55 am
Scratch the Pirates for Park. My guess is the Astros.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on November 09, 2015, 09:25:34 am
Twins win the Park lottery...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 09, 2015, 11:49:29 am
The Hall of Fame ballot was released today.  New names this year:

Garret Anderson
Brad Ausmus
Luis Castillo
David Eckstein
Jim Edmonds
Troy Glaus
Ken Griffey Jr.
Mark Grudzielanek
Mike Hampton
Trevor Hoffman
Jason Kendall
Mike Lowell
Mike Sweeney
Billy Wagner
Randy Winn

Griffey will probably go in on the first ballot, but I doubt anyone else does.    Edmonds has a good case, but I bet he won't even make it to the second ballot.  In fact, I think Hoffman is the only one likely to stay on the ballot next year.  Edmonds and Wagner are the only others with any chance of being on the ballot next year, but they'll never come close to getting voted in.

I'm kind of shocked that Castillo, Grudzielanek, Hampton, and Sweeney have only been gone five years.  I would've guessed it was closer to 10 years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Robb on November 09, 2015, 11:57:17 am
Hoffman and Griffey off that list.  The rest don't pass the smell test.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on November 09, 2015, 01:23:56 pm
I've been watching baseball for 40+ years now, and Billy Wagner is one of the best relievers I have ever seen.

Some numbers...

2.31 ERA
0.998 WHIP
422 saves
187 ERA+
2.73 FIP
11.9 K/9
3.99 K/W
7x AllStar

Those numbers scream HOFer to me.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 09, 2015, 01:58:03 pm
I think the argument can be made that Wagner deserves to be inducted more than Hoffman.  Wagner was better, he just didn't pitch as long.  Hoffman was a bit of a compiler.

Ultimately, I'm not a big fan of closers in the Hall of Fame--Rivera is the only reliever from this era that I'd vote in.  Based on history of voting, though, I think it's easy to argue for Hoffman and Wagner belong in there with Sutter already in.  I think they are clearly the second and third best closers of the era, so they wouldn't be an egregious mistake.

I know people here aren't going to like Edmonds because of his history with the Cardinals, but he's a Hall of Famer IMO.  His 6 year peak with the Cardinals should've had him as an MVP candidate every year, and he had another 4 years of All Star level play with the Angels. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 09, 2015, 04:38:41 pm
Jenifer Langosch ‏@LangoschMLB  5m5 minutes ago
#STLCards Alex Reyes, who confirms his positive test stems from marijuana use, issued a statement on suspension: http://langosch.mlblogs.com/

Explains why he left the AFL, which I think counts towards the suspension.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 09, 2015, 05:58:29 pm
According to reports on Twitter from a WSB reporter (WSB is the biggest news talk station in Atlanta and the ABC affiliate on TV), former Brave Tommy Hanson is in a coma at a local hospital.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 09, 2015, 06:20:29 pm
Drugs are bad.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 09, 2015, 07:23:28 pm
The Hall of Fame ballot was released today.  New names this year:

Garret Anderson
Brad Ausmus
Luis Castillo
David Eckstein
Jim Edmonds
Troy Glaus
Ken Griffey Jr.
Mark Grudzielanek
Mike Hampton
Trevor Hoffman
Jason Kendall
Mike Lowell
Mike Sweeney
Billy Wagner
Randy Winn

Griffey will probably go in on the first ballot, but I doubt anyone else does.    Edmonds has a good case, but I bet he won't even make it to the second ballot.  In fact, I think Hoffman is the only one likely to stay on the ballot next year.  Edmonds and Wagner are the only others with any chance of being on the ballot next year, but they'll never come close to getting voted in.

I'm kind of shocked that Castillo, Grudzielanek, Hampton, and Sweeney have only been gone five years.  I would've guessed it was closer to 10 years.

Isn't Griffey the only one who deserves the HOF regardless which ballot t might be?

I might take a second look at Hoffman, Kendall and Wagner, but I doubt that a close review of their record would get me to support them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 09, 2015, 07:32:57 pm
Drugs are bad.

Yeah, penicilin, caffeine, aspirin, and birth control pills are bad ****.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 09, 2015, 10:56:19 pm
Jose Reyes was arrested in Hawaii for assaulting his wife.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 09, 2015, 11:20:24 pm
Zach Klein ‏@ZachKleinWSB 
Per MLB source, former #Braves pitcher
Tommy Hanson has passed away
He was 29
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on November 10, 2015, 01:11:48 pm
Wonder what Hanson ingested that killed him?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 10, 2015, 01:52:51 pm
Doing a little prowling on the net Hanson apparently had drug issues and it was most likely **** or maybe heroin.

This is stuff I found.

Not something I just came up with.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 10, 2015, 02:15:46 pm
There were a couple unsubstantiated reports of drugs yesterday, but nothing from any kind of real reporter.  So until there is actually something official, we really shouldn't speculate too much.

The closest I've seen in a news article is that he was having trouble breathing on Sunday morning, so he went to the hospital.  From there, he rapidly deteriorated and ultimately had several organs fail.  That could have any number of causes.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 10, 2015, 02:53:18 pm
I used to think he was gonna be really good.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 10, 2015, 03:37:56 pm
Hanson was really good, but his shoulder blew up on him about 2 years into his major league career. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 10, 2015, 03:39:36 pm
Lance Lynn had Tommy John surgery and will miss next season.  No wonder he was so bad late in the season and in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 10, 2015, 03:40:17 pm
Of course, that may mean that the Cards will pursue a top pitcher.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 10, 2015, 04:34:28 pm
Now, Cards probably have to keep Garcia and his $11.5 contract--while Lynn is a sunk cost--so might be harder for them to go after top-end guy(s).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on November 10, 2015, 04:42:22 pm
Lynn's contract has a insurance policy. Entire 3 year period was covered when he signed before 2015. So that means they are only on the hook for 20% of the 7.5 million he is due.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 10, 2015, 04:45:13 pm
The Cardinals are the evil empire, Reb.  Don't forget that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 10, 2015, 06:04:34 pm
People in the media are now saying cause of death for Hanson was an overdose.  There was no mention of the drug, so it could be Tylenol or heroin.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 10, 2015, 06:32:35 pm
I just read the AJC piece he was found not breathing. Since he's a pro athlete with multiple medical procudueres it could easily of been prescription drugs as an illegal one, not that there is a huge difference between them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 11, 2015, 01:05:13 pm
Yankees get Aaron Hicks from the Twins for catcher John Ryan Murphy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 11, 2015, 01:07:33 pm
Boston is inquiring about Chapman and Verlander.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 11, 2015, 01:14:21 pm
Yankees get Aaron Hicks from the Twins for catcher John Ryan Murphy.

I wonder if the Yankees are really looking at moving Garnder or Ellsbury.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 11, 2015, 01:17:48 pm
I'm sure they'd love to get out from under Ellsbury's contract at this point.  Maybe Gardner's too--he's 32 and no longer an elite defender, so he may not be worth what he's going to get over the next three years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 11, 2015, 02:20:18 pm
He might just be a Chris Young replacement as well.

Just spit balling, but I wonder if the Cubs could get the Yankees to pay down Ellsbury's contract to Castro's if they would have any interest in him in a 1:1 swap?  I haven't really looked at his numbers to see how I'd feel about it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 11, 2015, 02:48:27 pm
.663 OPS last season with below-average defensive metrics.  They'd have to pay it down pretty damn far.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 11, 2015, 02:55:29 pm
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/157054364/cuban-players-to-watch-this-hot-stove-season
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 11, 2015, 05:31:05 pm
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/157054364/cuban-players-to-watch-this-hot-stove-season

That is something to keep in mind when deciding whether to keep or trade Soler.  Soler could not only actively help persuade other Cuban players to sign with the Cubs, his presence might well help persuade them to sign with the Cubs.  His absence.... not so much.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 11, 2015, 05:34:22 pm
Pierzynski back to the Braves, Gutierrez back to the Mariners on one year deals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ray on November 11, 2015, 07:36:56 pm
Anything out there on cubs being linked to adrian morejan?  Sounds pretty interesting in that article.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 11, 2015, 08:29:20 pm
Who's that?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 11, 2015, 10:17:12 pm
Jonah Keri is reporting the Braves are in trade talks with an NL West team for Andrelton Simmons. Padres?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 11, 2015, 10:28:37 pm
Weird that Keri tweeted out that the Braves were in deep trade talks 2 hours ago and added Simmons' name about an hour ago...but no one else has said anything about it.  No confirmation, no denial.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 11, 2015, 10:37:39 pm
O'Brien (AJC) confirmed they were in talks about Simmons and that they would move him for the right return. Lin a San Diego reporter confirmed that the Padres have checked in on him. No clue what the Padres could offer the Braves, maybe Myers?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 11, 2015, 11:42:50 pm
Not sure where to put this.  Hate to hear this happen to anyone.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14106302/st-louis-cardinals-hall-famer-lou-brock-recovering-leg-amputation
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 12, 2015, 10:41:33 am
James Russell signs a minor league contract with the Phillies. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 12, 2015, 12:21:31 pm
Padres trade Joaquin Benoit to the Mariners according to Rosenthal.  The return isn't known yet.

The Mariners have been pretty active so far.  Trade with Tampa last week, re-signed Franklin Gutierrez, brought in Chris Iannetta, and now this.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 12, 2015, 12:22:42 pm
Padres trade Joaquin Benoit to the Mariners according to Rosenthal.  The return isn't known yet.

The Mariners have been pretty active so far.  Trade with Tampa last week, re-signed Franklin Gutierrez, brought in Chris Iannetta, and now this.

They seem to have mastered the art of being active without being productive these last few offseasons.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 12, 2015, 12:23:16 pm
#Padres trade RP Joaquin Benoit to #Mariners for RHP Enyel De Los Santos, INF Nelson Ward. Santos, 19, big arm. 15 teams called on Benoit.

Tweet from Corey Brock. .
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 12, 2015, 12:26:26 pm
They seem to have mastered the art of being active without being productive these last few offseasons.
Truth
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on November 12, 2015, 01:24:02 pm
More like destructive. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 12, 2015, 01:37:03 pm
At least they try.

In my 21 years as a Cub fan I would have appreciated that effort in a few of them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 12, 2015, 02:48:16 pm
Piece about Statcast

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/statcast-691689-teams-data.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on November 12, 2015, 03:11:01 pm
We still **** about the Karchner trade here or the Garza trade there.  What Preller did was at least ten times worse:

http://grantland.com/features/aj-preller-mlb-san-diego-padres-national-league-west/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 12, 2015, 05:17:24 pm
Colby Rasmus will take the QO from the Astros.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 12, 2015, 05:32:58 pm
We still **** about the Karchner trade here or the Garza trade there.  What Preller did was at least ten times worse:

http://grantland.com/features/aj-preller-mlb-san-diego-padres-national-league-west/
What would we have done without Karchner and Heredia?  You don't understand the dynamics of baseball.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 12, 2015, 05:53:34 pm
Andrelton Simmons traded to the Angels for Sean Newcomb and other stuff.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 12, 2015, 05:54:22 pm
Andrelton Simmons to the Angels for Newcomb, Aybar, and Ellis.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 12, 2015, 06:09:02 pm
Braves will trade for all the pitching prospects in baseball.

One of the Red Sox reporters said this is what the Red Sox a similar return to what JBJ would fetch. I wouldn't be interested at that price.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 12, 2015, 08:06:46 pm
Simmons is a tough guy to value. In terms of runs saved he's theorectically the best defensive player in baseball. But he's a pretty terrible hitter, and he makes eight figures.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 12, 2015, 08:44:57 pm
Defense does not age well. Didn't the Braves sign him to the extension fairly early?  His first full season he had a wRC+ of 91.  He did that with a BABIP .247 and an ISO .147. I think you could make an argument the offense would get better and he'd still be an elite defense SS for a while. That player is worth 9 figures. The past two season he has put up wRC+ of 72 and 82. If he does that and isn't an elite SS on defense that is Darwin Barney.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 12, 2015, 09:14:26 pm
In a vacuum, I like the trade for the Braves.  But I really don't like their overall rebuild.  They're pretty much the anti-Cubs, loading up on pitchers and figuring out hitting later.  Pitching prospects are so unreliable, they might still be in the same position five years from now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 12, 2015, 09:18:46 pm
I very much agree. 


In other bad idea news the Blue Jays are going to sign Estrada to a 2 year $24-29 million contract.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: vander-built on November 13, 2015, 12:28:42 am
Jim Bowden suggested Soler for Brett Gardner and said he wouldn't do Castro for Quintana from the Cubs perspective.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 13, 2015, 12:43:25 am
Good grief
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 13, 2015, 01:01:09 am
Lol
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 13, 2015, 07:21:47 am
Jim Bowden suggested Soler for Brett Gardner and said he wouldn't do Castro for Quintana from the Cubs perspective.

Gee, I wonder why Bowden had problems as a GM.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on November 13, 2015, 08:05:02 am
That's just silly...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on November 13, 2015, 12:54:57 pm
Quote from: Jonathan Mayo
There were 20 players headed toward free agency who were given a qualifying offer to stay with their old club, a record number. As Friday's 5 p.m. ET deadline approached, a player accepted the offer for the first time in history, and another seemed close to signing a two-year deal with his team.

Each of these free agents was offered a one-year deal for $15.8 million. Only Houston's Colby Rasmus had accepted the offer as the deadline approached. Marco Estrada appeared headed to a two-year deal with the Blue Jays for a reported range of $24 million to $29 million.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 13, 2015, 01:02:45 pm
Weiters is taking the QO as well per Haymen.  Kennedy and Anderson should take it as well.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 13, 2015, 01:17:52 pm
Next year's FA class for pitchers is weak, like Ukraine.  A guy like Anderson would definitely be better off rolling the dice and taking the Q.O..
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on November 13, 2015, 01:18:34 pm
Kennedy just rejected QO, per Rosenthal...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 13, 2015, 01:19:53 pm
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  6m6 minutes ago
Source: Kennedy REJECTING qualifying offer. Will remain free agent.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 13, 2015, 01:21:06 pm
Some "experts" had 7 guys who should take 15.8M for a year
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on November 13, 2015, 01:30:33 pm
You no say Ukraine is weak!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on November 13, 2015, 01:31:52 pm
In Ukraine, free agency opts you
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on November 13, 2015, 01:37:53 pm
Kennedy's a bit surprising.  Why not spend another year living in San Diego, pitching in Petco, and then hit the free agency market next year when it's weak for starters?  He must have something else in mind, because it's hard to see how this is the path to the most money.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 13, 2015, 01:38:06 pm
You no say Ukraine is weak!

Free agency is game to you??
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 13, 2015, 01:38:25 pm
Wieters took the Q.O.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 13, 2015, 02:57:35 pm
One of the Dodgers finalists is Darrin Erstad, former pro OF and current Nebraska Bugeaters head coach.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 13, 2015, 04:03:14 pm
Brett Anderson takes the QO. 

The deadline has passed, so we should get confirmation that Fowler didn't accept any time.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 13, 2015, 06:34:29 pm
Kimbrel traded to the Red Sox per Rosenthal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 13, 2015, 06:39:09 pm
Now Passan has tweeted that the Red Sox have talked to the Padres a lot about Ross, so this could be a much bigger deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 13, 2015, 06:45:24 pm
Logan Allen is 1 name involved, above slot pitcher from 2015 draft.  If JBJ is involved maybe the Cubs come calling.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 13, 2015, 06:45:30 pm
So far, Twitter has Logan Allen, Carlos Asuaje, and Manuel Margot going to the Padres.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 13, 2015, 06:47:36 pm
Has to include Ross unless they are going to overpay for Kimbrel.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 13, 2015, 06:50:23 pm
Padres beat writer:
Dennis Lin ‏@dennistlin 
Tyson Ross is not in the Craig Kimbrel trade, according to a source.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 13, 2015, 06:51:59 pm
Nope just an over pay.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 13, 2015, 06:54:49 pm
Add Javier Guerra to the return for the Padres.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 13, 2015, 07:03:12 pm
Trade announced, 4 for 1.  I don't know anything about the prospects, but it sounds like the Padres did great here.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 13, 2015, 07:25:35 pm
Margot is top 50 easily and might be close in value to Torres. Guerra is a defensive whiz, with some pop and K problem, who has made some top 100 lists. Allen is a 2015 pick that they paid $700,000+ in the 8th round. I don't know anything about the 4th guy other. 

Who here would trade Torres and McKinney for Kimbrel?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 13, 2015, 07:46:25 pm
Margot is top 50 easily and might be close in value to Torres. Guerra is a defensive whiz, with some pop and K problem, who has made some top 100 lists. Allen is a 2015 pick that they paid $700,000+ in the 8th round. I don't know anything about the 4th guy other. 

Who here would trade Torres and McKinney for Kimbrel?

I don't know that I would, but I don't think it would be an outrageous price.  Kimbrel is really, really good.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on November 13, 2015, 08:21:34 pm
My son's HS team faced Logan Allen at Perfect Game earlier this spring. He's pretty dirty.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 13, 2015, 08:32:04 pm
Who here would trade Torres and McKinney for Kimbrel?

I'm pretty much always opposed to trading good value for a relief pitcher, so I probably wouldn't give up either of them alone for Kimbrel.  Both of them would be really bad.  I'd rather just buy a closer or trade for a second-tier closer or setup guy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 13, 2015, 08:33:43 pm
It could really be Torres, McKinney, Sands, Villaneuva. Badler mention that Guerra might be a top 50 guy as well. Kimbrel is good and well paid for it. I'd much rather draft a closer in the Rule 5 draft :).

I think this should also put the Ross tumors to bed. With the freed up money the Padres might be looking at Ian Desmond.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 13, 2015, 10:19:47 pm
Padres would now be a good landing spot for Papelbon.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 13, 2015, 10:26:58 pm
Kimbrell is better than Rondon, but not so much better that we give up assets to get him over an SP or CF.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on November 13, 2015, 10:39:52 pm
Wow! I'd be really pissed if the Cubs made an equivalent trade. Kimbrel is fantastic, but he's getting paid like it, so it's not as if there's a ton of surplus value there. It's like trying to deal Votto - maybe the best hitter on the planet, but he comes with a quarter billion dollar contract attached.

STUNNED the Pads got that much.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 13, 2015, 10:45:41 pm
Don't think Chapman will fetch as much, with only one year of control as a pending FA.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 13, 2015, 10:49:02 pm
Don't think Chapman will fetch as much, with only one year of control as a pending FA.

But would be fun to see him warming up in bullpen as a Cub, ready for the 9th. Bump Rondon and Strop back an inning.

No, not realistic.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 13, 2015, 11:05:40 pm
I've suggested this several times and no one has commented.  Probably because everyone has me on Ignore, too, but would there be no chance to switch Chapman back to a starter?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 13, 2015, 11:20:36 pm
Last time it came up, Chapman said he preferred closer role over starting rotation. The guy is a closer, unless persuaded otherwise. Pending FA, so you'd think it would have happened already if had change of heart. Think he's right---a prototype dominant short reliever.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/42857168/aroldis-chapman-says-he-prefers-closing-over-starting

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 14, 2015, 12:32:18 am
I've suggested this several times and no one has commented.  Probably because everyone has me on Ignore, too, but would there be no chance to switch Chapman back to a starter?

The Reds wanted to and he didn't want to do it.  There would also be the issue of how many innings he could handle. He could be amazing as a starter or his arm could break, kinda a risky move for a contending team and a free agent.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 14, 2015, 01:15:40 am
The Rays get the exhibition game in Cuba if MLB can work out the details.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 14, 2015, 06:53:30 am
Thanks, CBJ and Reb.  My memory was wrong.  I thought it was Dusty that insisted he stay at closer because he had nobody else.  I thought that became an issue between Dusty and the front office.  I just assumed that Chapman had grown into the position.  Gotta wonder whether an agent mentioned how much more $$$ might be in being a SP could change his viewpoint.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on November 14, 2015, 07:40:27 am
Wow! I'd be really pissed if the Cubs made an equivalent trade. Kimbrel is fantastic, but he's getting paid like it, so it's not as if there's a ton of surplus value there. ....  STUNNED the Pads got that much.

Speaks to the high price of trading for seriously good players with some club control. 

We've talked about the Cleveland pitchers.  But it's hard to imagine how much Kluber, signed through 2015 at a $7.5 average, would cost?  Or Carrasco (if viewed as fine medically), signed through 20120 at $5.5 average?  One of those two would require a ginormous package of prospect talent. 


Why FA is probably the avenue for us.  Trade for an anti-awful roster filler, maybe.  Trade for a prospect who hasn't broken through yet?  Maybe.  Maybe/perhaps trade for a pitcher whose value is depressed by approaching free agency?  Maybe.  Trade for a pitcher who has some talent but has underachieved?  Maybe. 


But trading for a healthy, proven, plus-plus, pitcher with years of control and a fair or favorable contract?  Market price is just too high. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on November 14, 2015, 07:53:24 am
I know Curt hates him on par with Samardzija, and maybe worse.  But I still wonder if Cashner might be an interesting guy.  He's got only one year of control = price down.  He hasn't been very good = price down.  he hasn't been very durable = price down.  Maybe he isn't a good chemist and lacks a good face = price down. 

Might be something of a buy-low value candidate who wouldn't cost the house.  Might even be an interesting bullpen guy in postseason. 

And would be fun to get Curt riled up for entertainment sake!   
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on November 14, 2015, 08:05:08 am
How about Leonys Martin as a buy-low defensive CFer?  Coming off a .576 OPS season  :):):), and having gotten bumped by DeShields, he couldn't cost a ton.  But good defensively.  Previous two seasons he was .690-ish offensively, which is kind of what we hope Almora might blossom into someday. 

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on November 14, 2015, 08:55:42 am
How about Leonys Martin as a buy-low defensive CFer?  Coming off a .576 OPS season  :):):), and having gotten bumped by DeShields, he couldn't cost a ton.  But good defensively. Previous two seasons he was .690-ish offensively, which is kind of what we hope Almora might blossom into someday.

Whoa. My hopes for Almora are certainly higher than that.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 14, 2015, 09:00:31 am
Martin would interest me. He has some speed as well.

Cashner would be really interesting depending on price. If you could flip Castro for him that might be fair value and only having him for one year, limiting the injury risk. With the free agent class being a mess next year he could get a QO to recoup some of the cost.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 14, 2015, 09:04:39 am
I know Curt hates him on par with Samardzija, and maybe worse.  But I still wonder if Cashner might be an interesting guy.  He's got only one year of control = price down.  He hasn't been very good = price down.  he hasn't been very durable = price down.  Maybe he isn't a good chemist and lacks a good face = price down. 

Might be something of a buy-low value candidate who wouldn't cost the house.  Might even be an interesting bullpen guy in postseason. 

And would be fun to get Curt riled up for entertainment sake!   
I have resigned myself to the fact that we will have a rotation of Arrieta, Lester, Smarj, Cashner, and Eddie Jackson next year.  Bring 'em all back!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 14, 2015, 09:40:21 am
So Estrada turned down a one year deal for 15.8M for a 2 year deal for 24.5M.   Does his agent do Jesmath?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 14, 2015, 09:46:21 am
I would be perfectly fine with Cashner as a lottery ticket, the 2nd starter acquisition.  He's exactly the sort of pitcher you might just be able to get with Castro, and there is some potential for a surprise on the high side with him.  Padres are likely in fire sale mode, so it's definitely not unrealistic.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 14, 2015, 09:53:43 am
Maybe he isn't a good chemist and lacks a good face = price down. 

Does Cashner have a reputation of a bad clubhouse guy?  I'd never heard that.

It doesn't really matter, though.  The Cubs should be past the point of adding guys with big question marks in significant roles.  This team should be good enough to win a World Series next year, so spend enough to get someone who is better and more reliable.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 14, 2015, 10:00:14 am
Does Cashner have a reputation of a bad clubhouse guy?  I'd never heard that.

It doesn't really matter, though.  The Cubs should be past the point of adding guys with big question marks in significant roles.  This team should be good enough to win a World Series next year, so spend enough to get someone who is better and more reliable.

He did badmouth the Cubs' organization, but that's all I've heard about him being a clubhouse problem.

I'm not totally in agreement with the "big question marks" label here, because of context.  If you bring in Cashner to effectively be the fifth starter, the question is more whether he'll surprise you and pitch like a #2 or #3 - even bad Cashner is likely a decent #5.  Unless you figure the Cubs are going to bring in two legit SP who are better - and to do so I think you have to trade Soler or Baez - I think a guy like Cashner makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 14, 2015, 10:19:37 am
Castro is too much for Cashner, considering he's a FA after next year.  Cashner has been horribly injury prone.  He's on the DL all the time.  He has had very mediocre success, hasn't really eaten innings, and has been a big disappointment to San Diego, considering what they gave up for him.  Rumor has it that they were praying Ian Kennedy wouldn't take the QO and are grateful he didn't.  Next, they'd like to get rid of Cashner, but the price may be taking Shields, too.  But all things considered, I don't think I'd give up Castro.  If they'd give him up for Underwood and another minor prospect, fine.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 14, 2015, 10:34:33 am
I really don't want to trade Underwood. He is too close to the majors and the Cubs upper minor levels are redundant. If Castro is too much maybe Hoyer can get some of his old draft picks back.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 14, 2015, 10:43:19 am
I just threw Underwood out there.  Substitute your least favorite prospect that SD may desire.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on November 14, 2015, 10:51:09 am
Agree with Curt that it doesn't take Castro to get Cashner.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 14, 2015, 10:54:45 am
There's nothing saying you can't ask for more than just Cashner for Castro. And Cashner has been pretty injury free two of the last three years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 14, 2015, 11:07:59 am
Cashner only started 19 games in 2014.  He was out nearly half the season.

Shields is rather interesting.  He has started at least 33 games a year since 2008.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 14, 2015, 11:23:01 am
Andrew Cashner is a player that I got to know pretty well back in the day.

He was a real friendly young man.

I cant see him being a bad chemistry guy.

He's a jacked up truck type redneck though.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 14, 2015, 11:34:00 am
He was bitter about being traded and, as a result, would probably be a tough FA sign, but might feel wanted if we traded for him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 14, 2015, 12:06:56 pm
Andrew Cashner is a player that I got to know pretty well back in the day.  He was a real friendly young man.  I cant see him being a bad chemistry guy.  He's a jacked up truck type redneck though.

Jacked up truck type rednecks are always good for chemistry....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 14, 2015, 01:12:06 pm
Getting Cashner is a good idea.

Seems like Cubs already have made a down payment to SD.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chris-denorfia-bobbleheads-san-diego-padres-chicago-cubs-111315
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 14, 2015, 01:34:34 pm
So Estrada turned down a one year deal for 15.8M for a 2 year deal for 24.5M.   Does his agent do Jesmath?

A year ago, Michael Cuddyer turned down QO from Rockies and signed 2/$21 from Mets. Older guys love those multi-year deals. Maybe just a coincidence but the three guys accepting QOs all under 30.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 14, 2015, 02:11:38 pm
Cashner only started 19 games in 2014.  He was out nearly half the season.



How does that contradict "two of the last three years"?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 14, 2015, 02:24:35 pm
It's not a jesmath problem...it's reading comprehension.  I could have sworn you said "last two years."  My bad.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 14, 2015, 03:20:32 pm
Phillies got Jeremy Hellickson from the Diamondbacks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 14, 2015, 06:59:01 pm
My son's HS team faced Logan Allen at Perfect Game earlier this spring. He's pretty dirty.

As an 18 year old LH pitcher in low A ball this year he had an ERA of 1.11 and a K/W ratio of 26:1.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 14, 2015, 09:24:01 pm
I suspect that everyone here remembers how the Red Sox, both the team and its fans, cried and whined about the Cubs signing Epstein as GM and how they kept insisting the Cubs should have to heavily compensate the Red Sox for the move.

The current perspective of Red Sox fans is that Theo was forced to leave to avoid being fired:
The fate of any front office person can be tied to a particular player or action. Theo Epstein’s fate in Boston was sealed by the ill-advised signings of Carl Crawford (who never played well here and likely never will be a great player again) and Adrian Gonzalez (seeing Anthony Rizzo, who was traded by Boston for AGon, mash baseballs out of Wrigley Field is the definition of painful for Red Sox fans) who left Boston disgruntled, leaving Cherington to pick up the pieces after the September 2011 collapse hastened Epstein’s flight to Chicago.  http://bosoxinjection.com/2015/11/14/red-sox-dave-dombrowski-creates-kimbrel-deal-with-cheringtons-players/

A perspective made all the more interesting by the implicit contention that after a single season with the Red Sox, a season when he had an OPS+ of 155, better than his prior season, far above his career average, and better than every year but one... his performance showed Theo had been "ill-advised" to have signed him.  What in the world did Red Sox fans hope to see from him?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 16, 2015, 03:34:14 pm
Reed Johnson is still playing, apparently.  He signed a minor league deal with the Nationals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 16, 2015, 04:35:36 pm
Mariners continue to be active:

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 
Source: Mariners acquiring Leonys Martin. Tom Wilhelmsen going back to Texas. Other pieces involved.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 16, 2015, 04:41:47 pm
So the Cubs 2 needs, SP and CF, seem to have a high price tag in the trade market.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 16, 2015, 05:33:13 pm
The full Mariners/Rangers trade is Martin and P Anthony Bass for Wilhelmsen, OF James Jones, and a PTBNL.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 16, 2015, 05:50:23 pm
Correa wins it in the AL.  I imagine that was pretty close.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 16, 2015, 05:58:32 pm
Very close indeed - 17-13 first place votes, 124-109 overall over Lindor.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: aTm on November 16, 2015, 07:21:55 pm
Regarding Lindor vs Correa, does anybody know if dWAR accounts for defensive shifts? Because the statistical value difference between the two is solely in that stat.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 16, 2015, 07:34:11 pm
UZR ignores shifts. DRS ignores them, but then goes back and adds them in later. Shifts would decrease the defensive value of a SS as well.  Lindor is a really good defensive SS. Correa will likely move off SS in the future.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on November 16, 2015, 08:14:47 pm
Regarding Lindor vs Correa, does anybody know if dWAR accounts for defensive shifts? Because the statistical value difference between the two is solely in that stat.

Corea had an OPS+ of 132, Lindor had a 122.  Corea had 22 HR, Lindor had 12, and only 6 plate appearances separated the two.  So those stats are now part of dWAR?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 17, 2015, 12:42:15 pm
David Ortiz has announced that he's retiring at the end of the 2016 season.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: aTm on November 17, 2015, 12:47:38 pm
Lindor generally has a higher WAR than Correa overall, what I meant was that this difference is solely made up on the defensive side of the stat because Correa has the better WAR when only offense is taken into account. So the delta between the two is accounted for all in the defensive side, not that defensive ability was the only difference between the two players.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 17, 2015, 01:06:57 pm
Regarding defensive shifts, Fangraphs says it's up to the discretion of person coding the play: if determined that shift changed outcome of the play, the play is not included in the data set.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 17, 2015, 04:54:52 pm
Brandon Crawford has signed a 6 year deal with the Giants.

I read somewhere earlier that Rich Hill could sign somewhere today.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on November 17, 2015, 05:00:16 pm
Cardinals may also be the destination for Mark Buehrle if he doesn't retire.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 17, 2015, 05:06:14 pm
Crawford 6/$75.  Full no trade.

I bet Hill to a tanking team so he gets a spot in the rotation.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 17, 2015, 05:11:43 pm
That's a lot of money for Crawford, who was a glove only player until his power jumped this year.  The Giants better hope that power boost is sustainable. 

Cliff Pennington to the Angels on a 2 year, $4 million deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 17, 2015, 05:15:41 pm
Rosenthal says the Braves wanted Pollock from the Diamondbacks in a Shelby Miller trade, so the Braves are setting their sights high.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 17, 2015, 06:20:49 pm
Moresi said on MLB Tonight that the Yankees/Cleveland have been discussing a Brett Gardner for a starter trade.  Not sure which starter it would be, maybe Bauer?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 17, 2015, 06:25:10 pm
Surely Gardner couldn't get Salazar or Carrasco, could he?  He's getting older, he doesn't have much surplus value left.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 17, 2015, 08:52:35 pm
Rich Hill: 1 year, $6 million to the A's.  Supposedly turned down more money in a bigger market so he could have the guaranteed rotation spot.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 17, 2015, 09:02:02 pm
That seems excessive, but I'm not Beane. A's might trade Jessie Chavez, because they guaranteed Hill a rotation spot.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 17, 2015, 09:43:24 pm
Blast from the past.

What's Sean Gallagher up to these days?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 17, 2015, 10:21:16 pm
In 2015 he pitched for the Sugar Land Skeeters in the Atlantic League.

In 2014 he tried to, maybe did, sell a truck that he spent $138,000 on eBay.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 17, 2015, 10:41:12 pm
Hill was released 3 times since 2014. Many remember the high hopes Cubs had for him way back when--and the subsequent hard times.

BR says his total career earnings was $3 up to now. So, $6 is twice the former total earnings in his career. Good for him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 18, 2015, 10:46:31 am
KRod traded to the Tigers per Heyman.

Javier Betancourt, Tigers #8 prospect and PTBNL.  Betancourt, 20, 2B had a .640 OPS in the FSL last year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 19, 2015, 11:01:21 am
http://slaterscoops.com/news/2015/11/18/the-miami-marlins-clubhouse-was-a-circus-literally

Interesting read.  Baker wasn't with the Cubs when Sammy was around was he?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on November 19, 2015, 01:04:37 pm
Interesting.  Fernandez sounds obnoxious. 

Maddon has a huge positive reputation for doing goofy stuff and having a fun, loose clubhouse.  Not sure how Miami wearing some clown noses is different, other than that they're losing.   

Can't wear pullover hoodies during batting practice?  How productive is a rule like that?   Can imagine how silly rules promote anti-management chemistry.  And how do you enforce rules in a sports culture if the star refuses to follow them?  Or if journeyman veteran thinks they're dumb?

The sociology of pro sports teams is very bizarre. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 19, 2015, 01:16:11 pm
Craig, i think the point was that Baker was leading objections to the crazy circus music and the lack of leadership.  Maddon has method to his madness.  Sounds like there was a total lack of professionalism and purpose.  Clearly Jose has issues but, perhaps, he, too, was fed up with the insanity
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on November 19, 2015, 01:20:22 pm
I have met Jfer twice now... we attended the same HS in Tampa 2 decades apart.

He did not strike me as obnoxious, but i guess what he does with fans may be completely different then how he behaves in the clubhouse and towards his employers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 19, 2015, 01:29:28 pm
The Marlins organization is kind of a clown car.  Nothing in that article sounds like Fernandez was out of control.  It just sounds like he's confident and doesn't do well with micromanaging. 

Nothing in that article gives me concerns that he'd be a problem in a Maddon clubhouse. He actually seems like a guy who might really thrive in that environment. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on November 19, 2015, 01:39:53 pm
No it's his checkered medical history that's the problem.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on November 19, 2015, 01:40:40 pm
Having said that...they can have the city of Des Moines.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 19, 2015, 05:26:16 pm
Harper MVP. Another Boras win.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 19, 2015, 05:27:04 pm
Unanimous.  As it should have been.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on November 19, 2015, 05:31:40 pm
Cardinals beat writer Rick Hummel gave Trevor Rosenthal a 6th place vote on his ballot (ahead of Votto and Arrieta).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 19, 2015, 06:31:01 pm
Hummel is still at Busch Stadium waiting for game 5.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 20, 2015, 04:02:03 pm
Braves continue to tear down, and Cameron Maybin goes back to his original organization:


Tigers PR ‏@DetroitTigersPR 
The Tigers announced today that the club has acquired OF Cameron Maybin from the Atlanta Braves in exchange for LHPs Ian Krol & Gabe Speier.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 20, 2015, 06:57:20 pm
A's trade Jesse Chavez to the Blue Jays for Liam Hendriks.  Wasn't Hendriks in the Cubs organization briefly a year or two ago?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 20, 2015, 07:12:40 pm
Yes he was a waiver flip guy.  He was DFA'd several times after the Cubs did.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 22, 2015, 05:14:37 pm
Dodgers sign Yunsiel Diaz for $15.5 million and Omar Estevez for $6 million.

That brings their IFA spending to $89.3 million including tax.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 22, 2015, 07:37:54 pm
Dave Roberts is going to be named the Dodgers manager.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 22, 2015, 08:04:11 pm

 Robert Murray ‏@RobertMurrayBBE  15m15 minutes ago
Text from NL exec on #Dodgers hiring Dave Roberts: "NL West just got easier to win."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 22, 2015, 10:10:54 pm
Robert Murray ‏@RobertMurrayBBE  15m15 minutes ago
Text from NL exec on #Dodgers hiring Dave Roberts: "NL West just got easier to win."

Not sure why that's necessarily the case.  Who knows how good of an in-game manager Roberts will turn out to be, but he was always regarded as a good team leader when he was playing.  It's not like Don Mattingly was anybody's idea of a genius in-game tactician either.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 22, 2015, 10:14:10 pm
Not sure why that's necessarily the case.  Who knows how good of an in-game manager Roberts will turn out to be, but he was always regarded as a good team leader when he was playing.  It's not like Don Mattingly was anybody's idea of a genius in-game tactician either.
I took it as a slam, meaning the other teams would win.  Clarity, clarity.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on November 23, 2015, 10:46:08 am
What a douchey thing to text!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 23, 2015, 11:05:43 am
From ESPN Insider:  Roberts was the bench coach of the Padres the last two seasons, but San Diego general manager A.J. Preller did not even interview him for the managerial vacancy that went to A.J. Green. According to Dennis Lin of the Union-Tribune, the Padres were determined to hire someone from outside the organization and did not want anyone connected to the coaching tree of former skipper Bud Black.

I'm going to give a wild guess that Preller might be the NL exec making the derogatory comment.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 23, 2015, 05:16:57 pm
Curt will be happy to hear that Brian Schlitter has officially signed with the Rockies as a minor league free agent. He will not be a Cub in 2016.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 23, 2015, 05:18:13 pm
Who?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 23, 2015, 05:36:06 pm
They did sign Drew Rucinski as a minor league free agent. He's Schlitter without the velocity or cool name.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 23, 2015, 06:49:06 pm
David Price ‏@DAVIDprice14
I can always tell the big rumor days...tons of mentions when I haven't even said anything!! I love you all BUT I'm going to play in Japan
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 24, 2015, 04:18:03 pm
Minor trade:

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 
White Sox acquire Tommy Kahnle from Rockies in exchange for Yency Almonte
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 25, 2015, 10:27:14 am
Several minor moves this morning:

Al Avila signs with the White Sox for $2.5 million (Soto left for the Angels yesterday).

Astros trade Jed Lowrie back to the A's, and also send LJ Hoes to the Orioles. 

Pirates send cash to get Allen Webster from the Diamondbacks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on November 25, 2015, 01:08:52 pm
Wasnt Webster one of the guys mentioned a few years that the Cubs were looking to acquire? cant recall who we were shopping at the time
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 25, 2015, 01:11:02 pm
That was around the time of the Dempster trade, I believe.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 25, 2015, 05:34:33 pm
Bud Norris signs with the Braves.  Good sign-and-flip option for them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 27, 2015, 06:51:26 pm
JA Happ goes back to the Blue Jays for 3 years, $36 million.  Pretty good payday for his two months in Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 27, 2015, 07:15:00 pm
3/$36 for Happ, and you think you're getting Shark for 4/$65?  Seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on November 27, 2015, 08:20:57 pm
that is really steep for Happ, that is going to spike cost on all FA pitchers even further.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 27, 2015, 08:25:31 pm
Fangraphs crowdsourcing had him at 3/$33 million.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 28, 2015, 10:31:39 pm
Rosenthal/Moresi with multiple sources saying the Tigers and Zimmermann are in serious talks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 29, 2015, 10:46:37 am
Heyman says Zimmermann has agreed to a deal with the Tigers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 29, 2015, 11:01:43 am
And a huge sigh of relief from most of this board.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 29, 2015, 11:10:46 am
Now if somebody would just sign Lackey....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 29, 2015, 11:20:56 am
Yup, just need to wait for Hendricks and Hammel to have Cy Young seasons and geat ready to polish that World Series trophy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 29, 2015, 11:26:16 am
If Hammel and Hendricks are your 4/5 starters the rotation is fine.

The Royals rotation of Cueto, Ventura, Edison Volequez, Chris Young
The Giants rotation of Bumgarner, Peavy, Hudson, Vogelsong

Nothing but aces...

5/$110 for Zimmermann
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 29, 2015, 11:29:49 am
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  5m5 minutes ago
Sources: Zobrist market likely to become more defined in next few days. Willingness to guarantee fourth year likely will be deciding factor.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  6m6 minutes ago
Zobrist #Mets’ No. 1 target, sources say. #Nationals also in, along with #Braves, #SFGiants, others. #Royals not expected to offer same $$$.

Robert Murray ‏@RobertMurrayBBE  5m5 minutes ago
Sources: The #DBacks have made Johnny Cueto an offer. http://www.baseballessential.com/news/2015/11/29/sources-diamondbacks-have-made-johnny-cueto-an-offer/ …
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on November 29, 2015, 12:30:23 pm
22 per for Zimmerman. Shark at 105 for 6 now seems like a bargin.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 29, 2015, 10:06:03 pm
-Dodgers are discussing a Pederson for Miller trade

-Two reporters put Heyward in the unlikely category for the Cubs

-Cueto turned down 6/$120 from the DBacks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on November 29, 2015, 10:07:03 pm
Cueto supposedly turns down 6/120 from Arizona. I'm thinking more and more if you could get Shark on a four year deal, you have to do it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 30, 2015, 11:28:15 am
Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  18m18 minutes ago
Clubs in the Johnny Cueto market believe he's looking for a $140-160M payout. That's Cole Hamels-Jon Lester territory.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on November 30, 2015, 11:29:19 am
A guy's gotta eat.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on November 30, 2015, 12:43:29 pm
Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  18m18 minutes ago
Clubs in the Johnny Cueto market believe he's looking for a $140-160M payout. That's Cole Hamels-Jon Lester territory.

In this free agent market, I wonder if he's selling himself a little short even at that kind of money.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on November 30, 2015, 01:04:12 pm
With a hurt arm I kinda doubt it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on November 30, 2015, 01:05:29 pm
Red Sox have agreed to a multi-year deal with OF Chris Young.  Seems like they're probably going to have to move one of their outfielders.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on November 30, 2015, 01:43:37 pm
Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  7m7 minutes ago
Zack Greinke's market is quietly heating up, says a source. #Dodgers, #SFGiants both looking for some clarity.

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  7m7 minutes ago
It's believed Greinke is looking for a $30M annual payout. He's 32, so length of the deal will be an issue.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 01, 2015, 02:39:52 pm
Twins agree to a deal with Byung-Ho Park according to Heyman.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 01, 2015, 03:57:02 pm
Price to the Red Sox, 7 years $217 million.  Now the free agent market should start moving.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 01, 2015, 03:58:53 pm
Rosenthal says there is an opt out after three years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 01, 2015, 03:59:45 pm
That's the 7th largest contract in history, and largest for a pitcher.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 01, 2015, 04:03:56 pm
I wonder if he will opt out?  I wonder how back loaded it is.

Please sign Shark.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 01, 2015, 04:07:10 pm
The answer is none.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  40s40 seconds ago
Price’s $31M AAV might not be record for long. Greinke’s deal also could come soon. #Dodgers vs. #SFGiants, 5- or 6-year deal expected.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 01, 2015, 04:07:21 pm
It sounds like it's just a straight $31 million a year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 01, 2015, 04:13:28 pm
Shocking that he went to highest bidder!

And glad not to Cardinals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 01, 2015, 04:24:47 pm
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  37s38 seconds ago
The St. Louis Cardinals finished runner-up in the David Price sweepstakes. #STLCards
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 01, 2015, 04:26:58 pm
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  37s38 seconds ago
The St. Louis Cardinals finished runner-up in the David Price sweepstakes. #STLCards


Shows that Cards have big bucks to spend this off-season, right?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 01, 2015, 04:31:16 pm
Shows that Cards have big bucks to spend this off-season, right?
Or that they're the new bridesmaids.   Of course, this gives them money for Heyward.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 01, 2015, 04:32:14 pm
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  37s38 seconds ago
The St. Louis Cardinals finished runner-up in the David Price sweepstakes. #STLCards


I wonder how close they were?  If the Red Sox outbid every body by $30 million like was rumored before this that is a $26 AAV.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 01, 2015, 04:37:53 pm
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  2m2 minutes ago
Zack Greinke now expected to sign with #Dodgers or #Giants by the end of the week on a 5- or 6-year deal. The #Dodgers still the favorites
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 01, 2015, 04:44:46 pm
That will leave it wide open for us to get Bartolo Colon and John Lackey!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 01, 2015, 04:45:26 pm
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  5m5 minutes ago
The #RedSox needed a decision by today by David Price so they didn't lose out on Greinke as well. Greinke was their back-up plan.

So assume Greinke goes back to the Dodgers that would leave the Giants with needing 2 pitchers.  I wonder what their preference is?  Cueto, Samardzija, Lackey, Leake?   Are the Cardinals going to sign a FA pitcher will they enter the trade market?  What the heck are the Cubs going to do?

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  4m4 minutes ago
David Price's annual salaries: 30, 30, 30, 31, 32, 32. 32. No deferred money in deal. Opt out after 3 yrs #redsox
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 01, 2015, 04:47:51 pm
effectively a 3/90 deal... he will opt out if he doesnt get hurt.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 01, 2015, 04:49:28 pm
I thought some kid knew Samardzija's good buddy and that Cubs were signing Samardzija last week. It's not in the bag already?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 01, 2015, 04:51:48 pm
Samardzija's buddy is in the bag.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 01, 2015, 04:54:52 pm
Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1  6m6 minutes ago
Zimmermann/Price will unleash wave of SP signs now, meaning Winter Meetings likely will be dominated by OF market Cespede/Heyward/Upton/etc

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  8m8 minutes ago
Sources say Greinke is looking for a 5 or 6 yr deal. He wants AAV above Price. That means $31.5M or $32M a year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on December 01, 2015, 05:06:06 pm
I'm glad the Cubs didn't sign Price at that price (given their apparent cost constraints).
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 01, 2015, 05:06:46 pm
I'm glad the Cubs didn't sign Price at that price (given their apparent cost constraints).

Yep.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on December 01, 2015, 05:29:17 pm
effectively a 3/90 deal... he will opt out if he doesnt get hurt.

Why on earth would Price opt out of that contract? He's going to get more than $125 after the age of 33?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 01, 2015, 05:42:12 pm
Perhaps because he wants to match Arrieta's new contract after 2017?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 01, 2015, 05:42:58 pm
Or because even mediocre pitchers will get 30M a year 3 years from now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 01, 2015, 05:48:10 pm
Agreed, I'm glad the Cubs weren't players at that price...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 01, 2015, 05:51:48 pm
But the press all said he was Maddon's buddy.  What the hell happened?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 01, 2015, 06:06:46 pm
It sounds like Greinke could pick a team tonight too.  Nightengale just tweeted that Greinke wanted a decision from the Red Sox about what they'd offer by tonight, and someone on the PSD board said earlier that Rosenthal said it could happen tonight.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 01, 2015, 06:36:58 pm
According to Nightengale the Red Sox where at least $30 million more than the Cardinals. One of the national reporters tweeted the Cards might move for Leake, who could be in the play for Giants if they don't get Greinke.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 01, 2015, 11:04:11 pm
Wow.  That's a lot of guys with ADD:  http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14268645/mlb-mlbpa-release-annual-drug-testing-report
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 01, 2015, 11:16:55 pm
Seems a little high....


Bowden tweeted Greinke is looking at a 6 years with a AAV of $32.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 02, 2015, 08:07:46 am
Mariners have signed Nori Aoki. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 10:23:28 am
keithlaw ‏@keithlaw  12m12 minutes ago
A's/Padres close to a deal that would send Yonder Alonso and Mark Rzepczynski to Oakland for Drew Pomeranz and LHP Jose Torres
156 retweets 54 likes

I like Pomeranz and wouldn't mind trying to trade for him with the Padres.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 02, 2015, 12:13:43 pm
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — The Royals have acquired backup catcher Tony Cruz from the St. Louis Cardinals for minor league infielder Jose Martinez while designating catcher Francisco Pena for assignment.The teams announced the trade Wednesday
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 02, 2015, 12:20:28 pm
The Braves have signed Gordon Beckham for $1.25 million.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 02, 2015, 12:22:55 pm
ALL THE GOOD GUYS ARE GETTING AWAY!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 02, 2015, 12:28:50 pm
A's/Padres deal is official...Padres also get a PTBNL or cash...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 02, 2015, 12:35:52 pm
Reb, about this map you posted some time back...where are the Mets?  Also in the Rocky Mtns, are those Yankee and Red Sox fans or what is that?

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/froa2mshyyikwywszwfs.jpg
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 12:51:37 pm
Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  4m4 minutes ago

David Price's annual salaries: 30, 30, 30, 31, 32, 32. 32. No deferred money in deal. Opt out after 3 yrs #redsox

I wonder how much Stephen Curry, Tom Brady, and Lebron James regret not becoming baseball players ....

The amount of money that gets thrown around in baseball is stupefying.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 12:57:09 pm
Come on Brady get $9 million a year...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on December 02, 2015, 12:59:07 pm
Perhaps Michael Jordan was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 01:09:27 pm
Perhaps Michael Jordan was thinking the same thing.

Ha!  Well done there, P2. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 01:11:33 pm
Mark FeinsandVerified account
‏@FeinsandNYDN
One major-league executive said he's hearing the Dodgers may give Zack Greinke six years for $210 million, which would be $35 mil per year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 02, 2015, 01:28:53 pm
Reb, about this map you posted some time back...where are the Mets?  Also in the Rocky Mtns, are those Yankee and Red Sox fans or what is that?

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/froa2mshyyikwywszwfs.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/Sports/posts/10153153336072457
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 01:29:03 pm
Come on Brady get $9 million a year...

Yeah, and his contract isn't even fully guaranteed either.  Not that any of us should feel sorry for how broke Tom Brady is and how ugly his wife is obviously.

But if you think about it, though, the injury risk/attrition rate for a major league pitcher nowadays has to be pretty comparable to an NFL player.  Not only does David Price get a yearly salary that's 3.5 times bigger than Tom Brady's and not only does Price get a fully guaranteed contract, but with his player option, Price for all practical purposes gets four years of injury/suck insurance built into his deal.  If Tom Brady blows out his knee or his performance significantly drops off, he's cut, and the Patriots don't owe him a dime more.  In contrast, if Price tears his rotator cuff or his performance falls off, not only are the Red Sox going to keep paying him, but it'll only be under those injury/performance drop off circumstances that the Red Sox will be keeping him in Years 4-7 of that deal. 

Either MLB is going to go broke with how stupid they are in compensating their players, or NFL players are getting really ripped off.  Probably a little bit of both actually. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 01:44:23 pm
81 home games vs 8 home games in the NFL and the local TV contracts and national vs just a national TV contract.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 02, 2015, 01:55:43 pm
Phillies claim Peter Bourjos off waivers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 01:58:26 pm
81 home games vs 8 home games in the NFL and the local TV contracts and national vs just a national TV contract.

I'm sure there's something to do with that, and NFL rosters are also bigger than MLB rosters.

Still, the NFL is presumably the top cash cow league in professional sports, and their franchises are generally worth a little more than MLB's.  Even with more games and fewer players to pay, it still seems out of whack that MLB's top stars, even pitchers, get fully guaranteed contracts with player opt outs that are worth 2-3 times more than contracts for the NFL's top stars. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 02:06:27 pm
MLB Player Union is strong and the NFL union isn't?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 02, 2015, 02:09:23 pm
Yeah, it's 100% about bargaining power and leadership.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: OkieCubsFan on December 02, 2015, 02:59:47 pm
Yeah, and his contract isn't even fully guaranteed either.  Not that any of us should feel sorry for how broke Tom Brady is and how ugly his wife is obviously.

But if you think about it, though, the injury risk/attrition rate for a major league pitcher nowadays has to be pretty comparable to an NFL player.  Not only does David Price get a yearly salary that's 3.5 times bigger than Tom Brady's and not only does Price get a fully guaranteed contract, but with his player option, Price for all practical purposes gets four years of injury/suck insurance built into his deal.  If Tom Brady blows out his knee or his performance significantly drops off, he's cut, and the Patriots don't owe him a dime more.  In contrast, if Price tears his rotator cuff or his performance falls off, not only are the Red Sox going to keep paying him, but it'll only be under those injury/performance drop off circumstances that the Red Sox will be keeping him in Years 4-7 of that deal. 

Either MLB is going to go broke with how stupid they are in compensating their players, or NFL players are getting really ripped off.  Probably a little bit of both actually. 


Guarantee Brady makes substantially more than Price once you factor in endorsements, etc.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 02, 2015, 04:50:18 pm
Opening Day of 2010 season. Jason Heyward 3-run homer off Zambrano in first inning.

Because he's there Opening Day, Heyward is now a FA.

Think Kris Bryant five years from now.  Fortunately, Bryant needed work on his base running at Iowa for a week.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 04:54:21 pm
Cardinals offer was $180 million for Price according to Gammons.  No clue if it was 6 or 7 years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 05:44:15 pm
Tyler Flowers and Jacob Turner non tendered by White Sox.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 02, 2015, 05:53:59 pm
What was the final say on Turner?  No hope or just recovering too slow?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 06:19:28 pm
I don't think anything has been said.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 02, 2015, 08:03:18 pm
Marlins non-tender Henderson Alvarez.  If healthy, he'd be a nice guy to sign to replace Cahill.  He'd be a better 6th starter than Wood too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 08:07:33 pm
He had shoulder surgery. I think it is safe to guess he isn't healthy. 

It would be nice if the Cubs could get Leathersitch and Turner on minor league deals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 02, 2015, 08:13:37 pm
Yeah, probably not healthy.  Still, worth looking into...it is a notoriously cheap and poorly-run team doing the non-tendering, so you never know.

Mike Minor is also going to be non-tendered.  Probably the same situation there.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 02, 2015, 08:15:16 pm
Minor is a lefty, though...so he's kind of redundant with Wood and Richard already around.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 08:32:23 pm
Minor had a set back, so he really isn't healthy. If he would sign a minor league, incentive laden deal that would be fine.

Alvarez would defiantly be worth looking into, but with shoulder injuries I just assume the worst.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 02, 2015, 10:15:59 pm
Cardinals offer was $180 million for Price according to Gammons.  No clue if it was 6 or 7 years.

I was not going to enjoy having to root against David Price, so I'm glad that didn't work out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 10:17:26 pm
Gammons math was wrong it was $190 for 7 years, so $27 million less.  I am very happy he's in Boston as well, as long as they don't make the WS against the Cubs.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on December 02, 2015, 10:42:28 pm
Gammons math was wrong it was $190 for 7 years, so $27 million less.  I am very happy he's in Boston as well, as long as they don't make the WS against the Cubs.

Considering his post season track record, that might not be so frightening.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 02, 2015, 11:27:07 pm
Aaron Crow was also non-tendered by the Marlins. He would be another interesting guy. Coming off TJS in 2015.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 03, 2015, 07:30:35 am
White Sox sign Dioner Navarro.  So the Flowers non-tender makes more sense now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 03, 2015, 11:29:22 am
It would be nice if the Cubs could get Leathersitch and Turner on minor league deals.

Well so much for Turner.  He re-signs with the White Sox for $1.5 million.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 03, 2015, 11:42:34 am
Is he back on the 40 man?  That was about what he was going to get in arbitration.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 03, 2015, 11:55:01 am
Don't know, Twitter doesn't say.  It does seem kind of pointless to non-tender him just to put him back on the roster the next day for the same money he would've gotten in arbitration.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 03, 2015, 12:04:55 pm
Kinda like non-tendering Flowers because he has too many passed balls and signing Navarro to catch.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 03, 2015, 01:00:02 pm
Yeah, Navarro seemed like he couldn't really handle the position three years ago when he played for the Cubs.  I'm kind of shocked teams still give him a contract to catch regularly. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 03, 2015, 01:02:08 pm
Flowers wasnt cut loose due to passed balls...  he was cut loose because he cannot put the bat on the ball.

Not a fan of the move personally.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 03, 2015, 01:02:37 pm
Very little the White Sox have done over they last few years have made sense to me. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 03, 2015, 01:09:07 pm
I wonder how long it's going to take the White Sox to acknowledge that getting overall replacement level performance out of the bottom 18-20 spots on your roster isn't a good way to win.  The Sale/Quintana/Rodon/Abreu/Eaton/Robertson base is great.  But 6 players aren't going to win the pennant.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 03, 2015, 01:36:15 pm
Flowers was the top framing catcher in majors last season, according to Baseball Info Solutions.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on December 03, 2015, 02:02:49 pm
White Sox sign Dioner Navarro.  So the Flowers non-tender makes more sense now.


...and they re-signed Jacob Turner to a $1.5 million contract.  Non-tendering him yesterday was to avoid arbitration.

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/white-soxs-jacob-turner-re-signs-with-white-sox/



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on December 03, 2015, 02:39:12 pm
And now they are auctioning Nancy Faust's organs to raise money.  It's a sad franchise indeed.  She is only 68!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-white-sox-nancy-faust-organ-auction-20151202-story.html
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 03, 2015, 02:41:22 pm
I want a kidney!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 09:23:00 am
Tigers signed Mike Pelfrey for a 1 year $8 million contract.  Whoops make that 2 years $16 million.  Hammel looking a lot better. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 04, 2015, 12:35:37 pm
Trading Hammel and his contract---and bringing in two pitchers--is a good scenario. Attach Hammel with somebody more attractive and the savings subtracting him can go elsewhere. If Pelfrey can get that deal, maybe Hammel can be moved. That's $11 saved, with the 2017 buyout. When have only $25-30 to spend, have to delete too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on December 04, 2015, 12:50:27 pm
Hammel and Castro for Shields and Cashner/Ross?

I don't think I would, and Preller wouldn't.  Just kicking ideas around.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 04, 2015, 02:01:25 pm
"Cashner/Ross" is a pretty big delta...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 04, 2015, 02:03:48 pm
"Cashner/Ross" is a pretty big delta...
Yeah, one of these things is not like the other.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 04, 2015, 02:08:57 pm
Oliver Perez signs with the Nationals for 2 years, $7 million.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 04, 2015, 05:29:45 pm
Odd that no one has mentioned this...

Barry Bonds was hired today as hitting coach for the Miami Marlins.

I wonder if that's a record for most career HR's on a coaching staff? Mattingly (manager), Wallach (bench coach), and Bonds is a strong triumvirate...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 05:32:04 pm
Dbacks are making a play for Greinke.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 04, 2015, 05:32:44 pm
Well, Florida IS closer to his supplier
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 04, 2015, 07:04:35 pm

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  26s26 seconds ago
Sources: Greinke in agreement with #DBacks, pending physical.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 04, 2015, 07:04:40 pm
Wow, Rosenthal says Greinke has an agreement with the Diamondbacks.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 07:06:57 pm
Holy poop.

Guesses on money?  6 years, $198 million?  Has to be an overpay?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on December 04, 2015, 07:30:14 pm
So D'Backs apparently plan to contend. Wonder if this impacts Inciarte's availability, assuming he was ever available.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 07:33:37 pm
I don't think he ever was. They could use an upgrade up second base instead of giving Owens time to improve, but they may not have much money left after Greinke.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 07:36:50 pm
Dodgers offered Greinke 5/$155 million.

DBacks also trying for Leake as well, so they must have some money left.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 07:38:06 pm
Nightengale says it is 6/$195.  Wow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 04, 2015, 07:53:12 pm
6 year 32.5 million contract for a 32 year old pitcher... that is very diamondbacks of them.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 04, 2015, 07:55:06 pm
Make that 6/206. My God,what a terrible contract.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 07:57:09 pm
That has to have a lot of deferred money. Price looks cheap now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 04, 2015, 07:58:32 pm
terrible contract or not...

Cubs are no longer favorites in the NL imo... diamondbacks have as good of an offense... better defense... and maybe better pitching atleast for a year or 2.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 04, 2015, 08:05:32 pm
terrible contract or not...

Cubs are no longer favorites in the NL imo... diamondbacks have as good of an offense... better defense... and maybe better pitching atleast for a year or 2.

LOL
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 04, 2015, 08:08:28 pm
LOL

LOL AJ pollack and goldy are better then your top two offensive players?

incarite/goldy/Jake lamb all play GG caliber defense...

ZG/Corbin will compete against Arrieta and Lester.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 04, 2015, 08:09:27 pm
LOL
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 08:16:32 pm
Luckily for the Cubs there are 8 position players, 5 rotation starters and a bullpen.

I saw on Twitter before Lackey signed and without a CF yet added the Cubs projected to 85 wins.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 04, 2015, 08:35:28 pm
yea.. its true. lots of players on offense and pitching.

Arizona staff of Anderson/Ray/Collmenter/bradley/corbin/zg/de la rosa/hudson/delgado isnt quite the world beating awesomeness of the cubs... but its also got great upside/experience/youth on its side.

Some things obviously need to break right for them in terms of injury but i am a HUGE fan of corbin and delgado...

on the offensive side. Goldy is imo probably the best player in baseball not named trout or harper.

AJ Pollack, while not a personal favorite is pretty damn good if he can repeat what he did last year.

Jake Lamb has some pretty huge K problems... but the power/home park combo is great... and he is really underrated on defense at 3b, i think he can win a GG there. Owings for what i saw was also pretty good with he glove.

Encarite/peralta/pollack is potentially a top 3 OF as well.

the org is laughed at a lot, but have a very interesting team all of a sudden... potentially top 4 in the league with the dodgers/cubs/pirates

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 04, 2015, 08:36:28 pm
Luckily for the Cubs there are 8 position players, 5 rotation starters and a bullpen.

I saw on Twitter before Lackey signed and without a CF yet added the Cubs projected to 85 wins.

CBJ are you now defending lackey? i thought a few days ago he was a washed up old man that had his best season at the age of 37? is he now great?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 08:53:34 pm
I've always said he is roughly in the Hammel/Hendricks levels of pitching. With what pitching is going for, I'll take a two year contract that pays him like a 2 WAR pitcher I think he is.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 04, 2015, 09:03:06 pm
Make that 6/206. My God,what a terrible contract.

There's such a thing as a good contract when it comes to free agent players like Greinke?

No bargains in free agency . . .
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on December 04, 2015, 09:05:17 pm
I despise the D'Backs and would welcome a chance to eliminate them in the NLCS.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 04, 2015, 09:05:51 pm
$60 million deferred. So the present value is around $190 for a 32 year old pitcher.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 04, 2015, 09:33:31 pm
There's such a thing as a good contract when it comes to free agent players like Greinke?

No bargains in free agency . . .

C'mon, you're better than that.  All FA contracts are overpays, so they're effectively the same?  Not much to that argument.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 04, 2015, 09:55:19 pm
C'mon, you're better than that.  All FA contracts are overpays, so they're effectively the same?  Not much to that argument.

Ha!  I don't know if I'm better than that or not.  CurtOne would probably disagree.

But ultimately, he's a guy the Diamondbacks wanted, and they did what they had to do to get him.  Sometimes when you're a team like the Diamondbacks that's been irrelevant for a while, you just have to bite the bullet and do what you need to do.  They probably even know it's a bad contract too, but for them, it might be better doing that than just sitting around and letting him walk back to the Dodgers or sign with the Giants.   

I'm sure they know like we all know that they'll be paying a price for that 3-4 years from now, but I can respect the move on their part.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on December 04, 2015, 10:04:04 pm
Diamondbacks also give up a relatively high (13th) first round pick.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 04, 2015, 11:21:28 pm
terrible contract or not...

Cubs are no longer favorites in the NL imo... diamondbacks have as good of an offense... better defense... and maybe better pitching atleast for a year or 2.
The Diamondbacks may not even be the best team in their division.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on December 05, 2015, 08:34:08 am
If Pelfrey can get that deal, maybe Hammel can be moved.

Maybe Hammel can be moved?

Maybe?

If the Cubs were interested in moving Hammel it is very unlikely they would have any difficulty in doing so, and in doing so with a return many of his critics here would find quite attractive.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 05, 2015, 10:49:50 am
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  4m4 minutes ago
How did that opt-out clause work out for Greinke? Two deals combined: Nine years, $282M.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 05, 2015, 12:25:48 pm
Shark signs 5/$90 with the Giants. He also got a limited no trade clause.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on December 05, 2015, 12:28:27 pm
Good chance for a bounce back year for Shark.  He'll love AT&T Park.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 05, 2015, 12:30:45 pm
Levine says Samardzija had an offer for the same AAV from the Cubs, but for fewer years.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 05, 2015, 12:33:44 pm
It's a good day to be alive. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on December 05, 2015, 01:21:54 pm
Levine says Samardzija had an offer for the same AAV from the Cubs, but for fewer years.

So much for Maddon being a FA magnet, or Smardj loving Chicago, or having confidence in his ability to bounce back, or caring about anything other than the money.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 05, 2015, 01:24:36 pm
It's a good day to be alive. 

Follow the money. Of course the player does that. I guess sentiment comes in for the player sporadically but not too often. Supposedly Lester had $168 offer from Giants and took $155 from Cubs. I don't know, maybe California taxes are higher and cut into difference. Also, Union does very good job making FAs understand that upper end contracts trickle down to everybody else in some respects. Solidarity and personal financial interests converge.

So, Lackey contract about 1/3 of Samardzija total value contract. Just think that's smart for Cubs. Flexibility going forward. At some point, Cubs have to develop some impact starting pitchers of our own.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 05, 2015, 01:33:31 pm
Also, Union does very good job making FAs understand that upper end contracts trickle down to everybody else in some respects. Solidarity and personal financial interests converge.

I think Samardzija even said he came from a union family and wouldn't be taking any hometown discounts before the Cubs traded him.  Not surprising he'd take the highest offer over the chance to be closer to home.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 05, 2015, 01:47:05 pm
Exactly...he did what he has stated all along he would do, as a good Union guy...he took the money.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 05, 2015, 01:52:32 pm
Can see Cubs are emphasizing long-term flexibility---two years, not three, with Lackey, hold the line on Samardzija duration negotiations, lose interest in Price.

I suppose that probably should tell us that Heyward not going to happen. And, explains greater interest in Gordon, evidently. Interesting Gammons comments that CBJ posted:  Gordon would play RF here. Yeah, makes more sense than teaching Schwarber yet another new position. RF Wrigley more challenging than LF too.

Gordon does not have the troubling lefty/righty platoon splits of Heyward. Gordon actually better vs. lefties past three seasons. That's important. Of course, doesn't have the Heyward upside. Wonder if Cubs really serious about Gordon? Will have to move some payroll out to do it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on December 05, 2015, 02:24:27 pm
Follow the money. Of course the player does that. I guess sentiment comes in for the player sporadically but not too often. Supposedly Lester had $168 offer from Giants and took $155 from Cubs. I don't know, maybe California taxes are higher and cut into difference.... At some point, Cubs have to develop some impact starting pitchers of our own.

California, and likely San Francisco taxes likely are higher, and that likely cut into the difference considerably, as would have the likelihood of the tax rate difference becoming even wider.  It might even have eliminated the difference.

As to the Cubs developing an impact starting pitcher, the Orioles did not develop Arietta.  The Cubs did,
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 05, 2015, 02:26:07 pm
Onley tweeted that the DBacks and Braves might be working on an expanded Miller/Pollack deal. Seems to make sense spend $200 million on an ace and trade your second best player.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 05, 2015, 02:59:42 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/BNightengale/status/673220946220548096
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on December 05, 2015, 03:49:02 pm
California, and likely San Francisco taxes likely are higher, and that likely cut into the difference considerably, as would have the likelihood of the tax rate difference becoming even wider.  It might even have eliminated the difference.

As to the Cubs developing an impact starting pitcher, the Orioles did not develop Arietta.  The Cubs did,


Playing for a California based team versus an Illinois based team will increase Samardzija's state income tax liability by about a million dollars based on a $18 million salary.



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 05, 2015, 03:59:07 pm
2013 World Series clincher. Who was that guy that got the win? (Do wins count in the World Series?)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS201310300.shtml
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 05, 2015, 04:21:08 pm
Actually, Lackey has pitched the clinching game for two teams.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 05, 2015, 04:37:31 pm
Yeah, but don't have permission to go back farther than 2009.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 05, 2015, 04:39:27 pm
ESPN must have permission
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 05, 2015, 04:45:22 pm
Shark signs 5/$90 with the Giants. He also got a limited no trade clause.

Im not heartbroke.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 05, 2015, 09:17:29 pm
With everything that has already happened, it seems like the Winter Meetings are set up to be quite the anti-climax (other than Jason Heyward signing somewhere). But I guess we'll see, since maybe there will be some significant trades.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 05, 2015, 10:30:44 pm
My gut is telling me we're going to see a pretty significant trade from the Cubs during the meetings.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 05, 2015, 10:56:44 pm
It would seem to make sense.

I wouldnt even begin to know the master plan any more than you all do and that's why I havent speculated and have tried to wait and see before I judge but it seems to be lining up that way.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 06, 2015, 10:07:23 am
Relievers are going off the board this morning.  O'Day back to the Orioles, 4/$31; Madson to the A's, 3/$22.  Probably the worst FA deal of the offseason so far given Madson's injury history.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 10:16:21 am
For non-elite relievers I much prefer the Cubs approach of getting a bunch of arms and seeing what sticks. Madson seems like a big over pay.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 06, 2015, 11:16:26 am
Isn't that the same team that had to sell off resources to trade for Ricardo Rincon, as well as include Cokes for their drink machine in another deal?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 02:00:31 pm
Levine tweeted Cubs offered price 7/$161.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 06, 2015, 02:06:21 pm
He also said the Cubs came in third in the bidding behind Boston and St. Louis.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on December 06, 2015, 02:51:31 pm
Levine tweeted Cubs offered price 7/$161.


That's less per year than they signed Jon Lester for last winter. So if Levine's numbers are true, the Cubs didn't make a real serious effort to sign David Price if they offered $23 million a year.  Sounds more like a face saving offer to tell their fans they tried instead of a serious attempt to sign him. Especially when you add in the fact that signing David Price, like Jon Lester last season, didn't lose them a draft pick.



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 02:58:18 pm
He called it creative, but yeah that isn't competative at all. 

Chris Young signs with the Royals 2 year/$20-24 million.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 06, 2015, 03:41:05 pm
He called it creative, but yeah that isn't competative at all. 

Chris Young signs with the Royals 2 year/$20-24 million.

Think that's 2/$11-12, no?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on December 06, 2015, 03:56:18 pm
Quote
Sounds more like a face saving offer to tell their fans they tried instead of a serious attempt to sign him.

What, you think they wouldn't want him at that price?  The guy said he wanted to play for Chicago.  Let's see if he means it and offer him what we think is reasonable.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on December 06, 2015, 03:56:39 pm

That's less per year than they signed Jon Lester for last winter. So if Levine's numbers are true, the Cubs didn't make a real serious effort to sign David Price if they offered $23 million a year.  Sounds more like a face saving offer to tell their fans they tried instead of a serious attempt to sign him. Especially when you add in the fact that signing David Price, like Jon Lester last season, didn't lose them a draft pick.
[/quote

Then there is always the wildly remote possibility that whatever the Cubs offered was a reflection of what they thought he was worth to the team, particularly given the other alternatives, and the fact that for a team that just won 97 games and built what appears to be a foundation set for a multi-year run, there really is no need for any "face saving."
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 04:14:44 pm
Think that's 2/$11-12, no?

I thought that was AAV, but it appears to be the total. That seems rather low for him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 06, 2015, 04:32:03 pm
I thought that was AAV, but it appears to be the total. That seems rather low for him.
yeah, that's Hammel territory.  ;)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 04:52:28 pm
It is about what the Cubs are paying him if the pick up his option.

Onley tweeting Dodgers and Reds getting close on a Chapman trade.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 06, 2015, 05:15:19 pm
Hammel got 2/$20 coming off career season---wouldn't get that today in this market coming off late meltdown.

He is somewhere  between Fister and Young, as said before. Fister will probably get nice 1-year deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 05:57:08 pm
Hammel and Young will be much better than Fister in 2016.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 06:43:47 pm
Padres want to trade Kemp without eating much money and would like a SS. Preller is fun.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 06, 2015, 06:56:22 pm
Fister is going to be interesting. rWAR OF 17 from 2011-2014 over four consecutive seasons.

Dave Cameron projects him at 1/$13 for 2016. Think that is high in terms of guarantee, but might get that in incentives if can pitch close to 200 innings.

One reason that Fister is interesting: he was so consistently good over that stretch and really good in post-season career.  Forearm issues in 2015 and velocity down, so who knows. Nats used him out of bullpen late and he looked much better.

Always a favorite of mine and bit of a model for Hendricks success.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 06, 2015, 06:56:43 pm
Where's Theriot when you need him?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 07:05:55 pm
Iwakeuma (sp) to the Dodgers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 07:09:20 pm
Where's Theriot when you need him?

http://1045espn.com/category/the-riot-podcast-on-demand/

Also giving Kyle Long advice on going on strike.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 06, 2015, 07:21:31 pm
Iwakeuma (sp) to the Dodgers.
damb.  I thought he was intent on going back to Seattle.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 06, 2015, 07:47:34 pm
I should have realized Bowden was the source for the syncing. Consider the Dodgers the favorites, but not a done deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 06, 2015, 08:45:02 pm
Now Heyman says Iwakuma has a three year deal with the Dodgers.  He's more reliable than Bowden.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 12:44:46 am
-KC signs Soria 3/$25 million. I would assume that knocks Holland out from coming back. I would really like to waste a 40 man spot on him.

-Stark is hearing from other clubs Dbacks are trying to trade for a starter. They may not have the money to sign a free agent.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 08:40:17 am
Nightengale tweeted that the Royals believe the Cardinals are their main competitor for Alex Gordon.

The Marlins asked for Seagar and Urias for Fernandez.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 07, 2015, 08:44:19 am
Nightengale tweeted that the Royals believe the Cardinals are their main competitor for Alex Gordon.

The Marlins asked for Seagar and Urias for Fernandez.

I assume Gordon would be a fallback for the Cardinals, in case they can't sign Heyward?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 07, 2015, 08:45:05 am
I hope we stay away from the guys with the bad reps: Papelbon, Fernandez, Puig, Latos...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 09:00:27 am
I assume Gordon would be a fallback for the Cardinals, in case they can't sign Heyward?

They may not be that in on Heyward. Rogers on ESPN Chicago posted the Cubs might be moving Castro/Montero to free up money for Heyward.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on December 07, 2015, 09:15:13 am
Heyman says Cardinals tried to sign Samardzija.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 07, 2015, 09:26:52 am
The Dodgers are getting Chapman for two prospects according to Rosenthal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 07, 2015, 09:30:49 am
Dodgers reportedly plan to keep both Chapman and Jansen...that should be interesting...

Curious to see the two prospects...for only one year of control, I don't imagine it will be anyone in their top 3-4 (Seager, Urias, Deleon, etc)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on December 07, 2015, 09:31:35 am
-KC signs Soria 3/$25 million. ....

Bummer.  I'd have loved to get Soria.  KC really understands the value of a great, deep pen. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 09:34:39 am
Chapman to the Dodgers for 2 prospects (not their top 3 guys)

Iwakuma signed for 3/$45 million.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 07, 2015, 09:42:49 am
Dodgers reportedly plan to keep both Chapman and Jansen...that should be interesting...

Curious to see the two prospects...for only one year of control, I don't imagine it will be anyone in their top 3-4 (Seager, Urias, Deleon, etc)

Especially given that both are in their FA years.  This may make Storen-Papelbon look like a lovefest.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 07, 2015, 10:48:25 am
Especially given that both are in their FA years.  This may make Storen-Papelbon look like a lovefest.
Bingo

Maybe the Dodgers will trade Puig for Papelbon to keep the soap opera going!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 07, 2015, 10:50:23 am
JP Morosi floating the idea of a 'Cargo to the Cubs' deal, although he thinks Blackmon would be a better fit for the Cubs, since he can play CF...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 07, 2015, 10:52:34 am
I like Blackmon's fantasy numbers, but Reb shared with me a while back that Blackmon's defense is in the minus range.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 07, 2015, 10:53:49 am
I'm not sure how the money works there, anyway...and Hammel would likely jump off a bridge if he was dealt back to Colorado...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 07, 2015, 10:59:50 am
Especially given that both are in their FA years.  This may make Storen-Papelbon look like a lovefest.

Depends on the personalities and context. In Nats case, this had happened once before with Storen (Soriano) and very hard for him when happened second time. Storen is type of guy who gets into a zone to pitch effectively. And, veteran closers pitching in non-save situations--tough adjustment for some.

If Cubs got Giles---guessing won't have Rondon problem. Actually, could see save-sharing situation. These guys very similar---fastball/slider guys. Rondon more grounders with 2-seamer but similar velocity and sliders and both worked recently as non-closers. Might be great situation.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 07, 2015, 11:06:27 am
I don't see it being a big problem with Rondon and Giles (or Boxberger).  I do see it being a big problem with Chapman and Jensen.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 07, 2015, 11:07:26 am
JP Morosi floating the idea of a 'Cargo to the Cubs' deal, although he thinks Blackmon would be a better fit for the Cubs, since he can play CF...

Blackmon has huge home/road splits. Career .653 OPS on road. 200 points better home. A Coors guy.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on December 07, 2015, 11:25:16 am
I agree, Reb.  Blackmon has been too awful away from Coors to be an attractive target.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 07, 2015, 11:27:02 am
I'm not a fan either...just repeating what Morosi said...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 07, 2015, 11:30:47 am
CarGo would look damn good in CF.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 11:45:41 am
CarGo can't play CF anymore, strictly a corner OF.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on December 07, 2015, 11:47:18 am
He's a great clutch hitter.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 07, 2015, 11:50:24 am
I wonder if Blackmon's defensive numbers are also impacted by Coors.  That's a lot of real estate to cover.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 12:03:06 pm
Blackmon UZR/150 by year- 2013 -50.9 (small sample size), -3.4, -8.5

Fowler  UZE/150 by year in Coors -23, -6.3, -5.9, -17.2, -2.8,

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on December 07, 2015, 01:09:38 pm
We're not getting a perfect fail-proof CFer for the price we're willing to pay.  I don't think....  They're going to end up settling/compromising in some way. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 07, 2015, 01:12:56 pm

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick  1m1 minute ago
A person familiar with Mike Leake's talks thinks he could land a 5-yr deal for $75-80M. His market value appears to have spiked.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 01:15:42 pm
Kazmir looking to do better than Iwakuma's 3/$45, despite his second half collapse.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on December 07, 2015, 01:17:48 pm
I don't see it being a big problem with Rondon and Giles (or Boxberger).  I do see it being a big problem with Chapman and Jensen.

I think the trend is to increasingly value relievers.  Any smart GM knows that you can lose games in the 8th or 7th just like you can in the 9th.  Spending serious money on a non-closer, like KC did, is OK. 

If you don't have non-closer relievers who are good enough to think they could be closers, you've got a problem in your bullpen.  Any good team with a good pen needs to have a manager and pitching coach who can manage I-could-be-closer egos. 

My concern with the Cubs pen is that I'm not sure that Strop or Grimm are good enough for that, even though last year they did really well. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 07, 2015, 01:18:56 pm
Even though it would be even smaller sample size, what are Blackmon's #'s at Wrigley and away from Coors?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on December 07, 2015, 01:21:25 pm
OPS of .468 at Wrigley, .653 away overall.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 01:30:21 pm
Fowler's splits where pretty bad away from Coors as well.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 07, 2015, 01:36:29 pm
OPS of .468 at Wrigley, .653 away overall.
Sorry.  I was asking Reb for DEFENSIVE #'s.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on December 07, 2015, 01:36:55 pm
Fowler's OBP away from Coors was better than .340 from 2011-2013.  Blackmon's career OBP away from Coors is .283 (.300 in 2015 and .269 in 2014).

Just say no to Blackmon.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 01:57:40 pm
He wouldn't be my choice, just that home/road splits at Coors aren't always predictive of failure.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 02:00:50 pm
Wade Miley traded for the Red Sox to Mariners.

Carson Smith and Roenis Ellis to Red Sox for Miley and Aro? from Heyman.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 07, 2015, 02:01:58 pm
Coors splits are just so hard to figure out.  For every Fowler, there's a Vinny Castilla.  For every Brad Hawpe, there's a Andres Galarraga.  You just can't be sure what's going to happen until the player actually leaves Coors.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Playtwo on December 07, 2015, 02:07:56 pm
I'm not sure why playing at Coors would greatly affect one's splits away from Coors.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 07, 2015, 02:08:47 pm
Smith/Uehara/Kimbrel is a strong 7-8-9 for Boston...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 07, 2015, 02:10:10 pm
Carson Smith is really good.  Can't believe the Mariners would give him up for a pretty ordinary back end starter like Miley.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 02:20:55 pm
Chapman trade isn't done yet. Other teams getting involved.

The Mariners have Benoit and who else in the pen?  They've made so many trades I can't keep up.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 02:22:20 pm
Rosenthal saying Lind possibly to Mariners as well. Dipoto must have stolen Prellers coffee from last year
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 07, 2015, 02:22:33 pm
Carson Smith is really good.  Can't believe the Mariners would give him up for a pretty ordinary back end starter like Miley.

Sounds like that trade they made when they sent Rafael Soriano for whoever that mediocre lefty they got in return from Atlanta was a few years ago.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 07, 2015, 02:27:47 pm
I think most of what Dipoto has done has been pretty smart, though.  Preller just added players for the sake of adding players.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 02:34:11 pm
Maybe.  He gutted the bullpen, would be my worry if I was a Mariners fan.  Steamer has Tony Zych as their 3rd best reliever right now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 02:39:15 pm
Jayson StarkVerified account
‏@jaysonst
Not sure what to make of this. But Reds telling teams they haven't yet agreed to trade Aroldis Chapman to LA. I don't think Dodgers agree
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 07, 2015, 02:41:35 pm
Jayson StarkVerified account
‏@jaysonst
Not sure what to make of this. But Reds telling teams they haven't yet agreed to trade Aroldis Chapman to LA. I don't think Dodgers agree
They get a lot more if they trade him to four or five teams.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 07, 2015, 03:04:04 pm
Boy, that's a great trade for Boston.  Seattle definitely seems to be aiming to be this season's asshat.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 03:07:02 pm
Jeff Sullivan ‏@based_ball  26m26 minutes ago
Carson Smith:

5 years of control, 33% strikeouts, .512 OPS against

Ken Giles:

5 years of control, 33% strikeouts, .526 OPS against
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 05:41:30 pm
Chapman to Dodgers might be a multi team trade.

Howard Cole ‏@Howard_Cole  1h1 hour ago
I'm hearing the Dodgers leaked the Chapman trade early, hoping to affect another deal in the works. Reds pissed, took a step back.

Howard Cole ‏@Howard_Cole  1h1 hour ago
Also hearing that Puig has been offered in trade and declined more than once.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 07, 2015, 09:08:56 pm
MLB is investigating a domestic violence incident involving Chapman. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aroldis-chapman-s-girlfriend-alleged-he--choked--her--according-to-police-report-023629095.html?nf=1
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 07, 2015, 09:09:55 pm
This, not the logistics of a multi-team trade, is apparently what is holding up, and may nix, the Chapman trade.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aroldis-chapman-s-girlfriend-alleged-he--choked--her--according-to-police-report-023629095.html?nf=1 (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aroldis-chapman-s-girlfriend-alleged-he--choked--her--according-to-police-report-023629095.html?nf=1)

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  2m2 minutes ago
Source confirms report from Yahoo that Chapman trade is indeed being held up by domestic-violence allegation against Chapman.

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1  4m4 minutes ago
#Dodgers people had counseled earlier in day that more than medical review was holding up deal. Now difficult to see it going thru
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 09:16:32 pm
MLB Network Radio ‏@MLBNetworkRadio  18m18 minutes ago
Passan said the #Reds have known about the Chapman arrest "for some time"
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 07, 2015, 09:23:04 pm
MLB Network Radio ‏@MLBNetworkRadio  18m18 minutes ago
Passan said the #Reds have known about the Chapman arrest "for some time"

There have been regular rumors over the last month that the Reds wanted to move Chapman quickly.  That really sounds bad, like they were trying to make this someone else's problem.  I really hope that's not the case.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 07, 2015, 09:27:15 pm
Why not?

Seems wise to me.

If you've got a dog that wants to bite everybody dont you get rid of him before he bites you?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 07, 2015, 09:58:42 pm
Terrible analogy.  If a dog bites everyone, you don't just give him to your neighbor for their two best dogs and a cat to be named later.  You take him to a vet or a shelter and isolate him until you figure out if he is actually guilty and/or a threat moving forward.

In response to the NFL's pathetic record on domestic violence issues, MLB adopted a new domestic violence policy in August.  It would be really embarrassing for MLB if a team tried to cover up the first incident covered under the policy less than 4 months later.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 07, 2015, 10:22:17 pm
Well if you want somebody to trade with you there has to be some level of trust.  Knowing that he could have a suspension hanging over him and not telling the other team isn't going to make friends. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Cubsin on December 07, 2015, 10:25:46 pm
Looks like a Puig for Chapman trade might be in the works - addition by subtraction for both teams.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 08:07:05 am
If Chapman gets suspended, depending on the length, he may not have enough service time to become a free agent this year according to Morosi.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 08, 2015, 08:19:41 am
Jason Motte and Chad Qualls are signing two year deals with the Rockies. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 08, 2015, 08:23:59 am
Jason Motte and Brian Schlitter in Coors Field should be very entertaining for the opposing hitters.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 08, 2015, 08:25:11 am
Motte is such a trader by the way . . .
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 08, 2015, 08:29:12 am
Heh
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 08, 2015, 08:31:02 am
So they think their careers are over?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 08:47:31 am
Motte signed 2/$10 million. Good for him and his 4 seam fastball I guess.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Eastcoastfan on December 08, 2015, 09:09:26 am
Wow.  Makes the Richard and Cahill contracts look awesome by comparison!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 08, 2015, 09:22:51 am
According to Morosi, the Cardinals are close to getting Jedd Gyorko.  Weird move...are they getting ready to deal Wong? Can't imagine why they'd be interested in an expensive, mediocre player who only plays positions that are already filled on their team.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 08, 2015, 09:26:57 am
Gyorko for John Jay...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 09:29:30 am
Maybe their trading Wong for Miller.....  Weird trade for the Cardinals.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 08, 2015, 09:31:24 am
Gyorko will become Jeff Kent once he dons the uniform...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 08, 2015, 09:32:00 am
Not that Jay is anything great...but he's a useful 4th/5th outfielder.  This is a head-scratching trade.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on December 08, 2015, 09:35:16 am
You guys are missing the obvious.

Jedd Gyorko is really good friends with Jason Heyward.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 08, 2015, 09:53:39 am

Jim Bowden ‏@JimBowden_ESPN  1m1 minute ago
Cardinals GM John Mozeliak told me that Jedd Gyrko role will be as a super utility player. Padres sending significant cash to Cards in deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on December 08, 2015, 10:22:37 am
Padres were one of the other teams along with the Cubs needing CF help.  Jay has played mostly CF in his career. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 10:22:51 am
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  2m2 minutes ago
Source: #STLCards taking on $26M of $35M owed Gyorko while sending Jay and his $6.225M salary to #Padres. ****Nightengale is saying the Padres are sending $17 million. Which would put them on the hook for about $9 million through 2020*****

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst  5m5 minutes ago
Sources: Mystery team making "very strong" bid for Jose Fernandez. Other clubs believe it's the Astros. More soon at http://ESPN.com
View summary 93 retweets 31 likes

Dennis Lin ‏@dennistlin  8m8 minutes ago
Some confusion over Gyorko money. Club source: Padres will pay STL $7.5MM over term of contract. Gyorko owed $33M, including 2020 buyout. Forget above.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 08, 2015, 10:23:07 am
Quote
Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 
Sources: Mystery team making "very strong" bid for Jose Fernandez. Other clubs believe it's the Astros. More soon at http://ESPN.com
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 08, 2015, 11:20:42 am
Quote
Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst  5m5 minutes ago
Sources: Mystery team making "very strong" bid for Jose Fernandez. Other clubs believe it's the Astros. More soon at http://ESPN.com
View summary 93 retweets 31 likes

Obviously the Marlins aren't happy with the offers they're getting if the vaunted "mystery team" is already making an appearance in these trade rumors.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 11:30:30 am
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  11m11 minutes ago
Rival exec on #Marlins/Fernandez: “They haven’t proposed anything reasonable enough to make people think they want to deal.“

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS  41s41 seconds ago
dodgers, nl west rivals talking to marlins about jose fernandez; things starting to percolate. http://cbsprt.co/21MwPQR

About 11 minutes apart.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 08, 2015, 11:39:37 am
They alledgedly asked for  Seager/Urias for jfer... if he had a better showing at the end of last year not sure why the dodgers wouldnt do that... but i guess i put less stock in prospects then most folks do.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 08, 2015, 11:50:31 am
Not less than me.

Top level prospects I believe in but I realize the flame out rate on most of the others is extremely high.

High enough that when it comes to the prospects we now have that havent reached the majors I wouldnt hesitate to trade any of them for the right price.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 08, 2015, 12:18:21 pm
Olney said this morning that one source told him 40% chance Fernandez is traded.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 08, 2015, 12:23:49 pm
Padres were one of the other teams along with the Cubs needing CF help.  Jay has played mostly CF in his career. 
Maybe we can get Jay for the year.  Keep pissing Card fans off!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 08, 2015, 12:32:17 pm
They alledgedly asked for  Seager/Urias for jfer... if he had a better showing at the end of last year not sure why the dodgers wouldnt do that... but i guess i put less stock in prospects then most folks do.
My understanding is that JF had rather crappy acquaintances in high school that hurt him badly now.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 12:51:10 pm
Bob NightengaleVerified account
‏@BNightengale
Ben Zobrist has a four-year, $80 million offer on the table. The #Mets still considered favorites to ultimately land him.

That is a lot of money...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 08, 2015, 12:56:44 pm
From ESPN:
MLB Winter Meetings Daily: Dodgers' Jansen 'crushed' over potential Chapman deal?

The MLB winter meetings are on, and a source says Kenley Jansen isn't happy about a possible two-closer setup in L.A. Here is what our writers are hearing in Nashville.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 01:04:58 pm
Pedro Gomez ‏@pedrogomezESPN  2m2 minutes ago
Hearing the @SFGiants are hot for Alex Gordon. @Royals won't be able to keep up with the money Gordon is hearing.

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1  1m1 minute ago
Initial #Mets reaction to reports Zobrist has 4 yr-$80M offer: 1) doubt. 2) if he has it, not from them, and he should take it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 08, 2015, 01:09:29 pm
Gomez says Zobrist looking for 4/$60.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 08, 2015, 01:22:08 pm
Evan Grant ‏@Evan_P_Grant 1m1 minute ago

Hearing Rangers have neither funds nor interest level to make serious run at Japan's Kenta Maeda, who is about to be posted.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 01:48:45 pm
Gordon Wittenmyer
‏@GDubCub
Dusty on A.Chapman reports: "Who's to say if the allegations are true? And who's to say what causes problems? ... He's a heck of a guy."

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 01:55:30 pm
Kristie Ackert ‏@Ackert_NYDN  11m11 minutes ago
Zobrist is discussing with his wife now. Should have decision soon. Possibly tonight, agent just told me. #Mets

Once Zobrist signs that should kick some things into gear for position players.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 08, 2015, 02:43:15 pm
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN  2m2 minutes ago
Reports are SD drawing major interest in James Shields. Which seems odd:he cleared waivers in Aug. when he could've been claimed for nothing
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 08, 2015, 02:51:42 pm
Gordon Wittenmyer
‏@GDubCub
Dusty on A.Chapman reports: "Who's to say if the allegations are true? And who's to say what causes problems? ... He's a heck of a guy."

Wow, Dusty might not be holding on to that managerial job for much longer.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 08, 2015, 02:55:25 pm
Dusty being old-fashioned out-of-touch Dusty.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 08, 2015, 02:57:04 pm
This might be good re. Cubs/Heyward.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/674329972962680832
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 08, 2015, 03:18:40 pm
Dusty being old-fashioned out-of-touch Dusty.

Exactly. Nothing new, here.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on December 08, 2015, 03:20:53 pm
Oh Dusty

What specifically have you told the front office you’d like that you don’t have yet?

“You’re always in need of left-handed pitching, left-handed hitting, and in need of speed. I think that’s the No. 1 thing that’s missing, I think, in the game is speed. You know, with the need for minorities, you can help yourself. You’ve got a better chance of getting some speed with Latin and African-Americans. I’m not being racist. That’s just how it is.”
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 08, 2015, 03:23:45 pm
LMAO

Everyone knows white dudes are slow.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 08, 2015, 03:27:50 pm
Dusty's post-game pressers are going to be a lot more interesting than the incredibly boring Matt Williams pressers.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 03:29:05 pm
Pausing Dusty on MLB Radio.  I will enjoy it later.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 07:12:22 pm
Shelby Miller to Dbacks

Reb cries. Inciarte plus going to Braves for Miller.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 08, 2015, 07:20:52 pm
Reb is going to be heartbroken, Inciarte is going to the Braves in the Miller deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on December 08, 2015, 07:29:42 pm
Screw inciarte m. They got Blair and Dansby!?! Jesus Stewart
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 08, 2015, 07:30:08 pm
Reb is going to be heartbroken, Inciarte is going to the Braves in the Miller deal.

Soler for Inciarte?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 08, 2015, 07:30:25 pm
Dansby Swanson in the deal for miller...

W T ACTUAL F#$K
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 07:33:06 pm
Dave Stewart is a Goc darn idiot.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 08, 2015, 08:18:11 pm
Man, first overall pick from six months ago for a mid-rotation starter...I wonder how Diamondbacks fans are reacting.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 08, 2015, 08:24:12 pm
The Braves now have the DBacks last 3 picks. The DBacks has Shelby Miller to show for them.

Rumor was Fernandez to the DBacks for Corbin, Swanson and 3 others. That would have been a better trade. Still bad, but at least they would be getting the best player. It is likely Incirate could but up as much WAR as Miller next year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 08, 2015, 08:38:22 pm
Dave Stewart must think that Miller is Dave Stewart circa 1987-1990.

That is a huge haul for Braves.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 08, 2015, 08:38:46 pm
It's not just Stewart...LaRussa makes calls there.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 08, 2015, 08:40:42 pm
It appears that as a Club President, LaRussa is a very good field manager, and as a GM, Dave Stewart is a very good pitcher.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 08, 2015, 08:58:20 pm
Dansby Swanson in the deal for miller...

Wow, good for Atlanta. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 08, 2015, 09:20:15 pm
Inciarte and Blair would have been a solid deal.

Adding Swanson? Really?!
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 08, 2015, 10:26:45 pm
Joel Sherman pointed this out on MLB Tonight.

Braves basically flipped one season of Heyward, a year ago, for nice prospect Tyrel Jenkins, plus the haul they got from DBacks tonight. Nice work.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on December 08, 2015, 11:36:17 pm
Holy crap. Theo should call up Davey and help him clear out the AZ cupboards.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 12:31:16 am
Brett Lawrie is headed to the White Sox for 2 minor leaguers. Now they just need 2 more infielders....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 09, 2015, 12:39:57 am
Maeda is officially posted.  Cubs are presumably out, but somebody is going to get a bargain with him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 09, 2015, 12:51:50 am
Im glad we're not involved.

Arrieta, Lester, Lackey, Hammel, Hendricks with Warren,Cahill, Richard, and Wood as insurance should be plenty enough.

We need an elite reliever much more.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 09, 2015, 01:22:44 am
Suppose it's possible that Ryan coming over could mean that Cubs still talking trade about Baez. Cubs still have same number of 2B as yesterday. First impression that Ryan just a dump for Yankees but $1 contract so negligible that Yanks could just eat that. Maybe Cubs actually wanted him?

Also maybe interesting that waiting couple days to confirm Ryan as PTNL---maybe 2-1 trade clearing roster spot in works. Already at 40, so can't pick Rule 5 guy--so probably not reason for the delay.

On another front, adding a shut-down reliever would look good. Thinking Ken Giles. Lot of bullpen depth--maybe could turn guys like Grimm, Edwards, plus position player prospect(s) into Giles? Especially if Warren a rotation guy. Giles a pre-arb guy-no payroll money.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 09, 2015, 07:28:05 am
What is Yankee roster situation?  Maybe they needed to clear space and sending Ryan to us was a DFA?  Ryan will end up in San Diego when the deal for more ex-Rays is done.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 09:06:28 am
Jeff Sullivan ‏@based_ball  31s31 seconds ago
problem with the Diamondbacks-are-contenders-now justification is it's not clear Miller trade even makes them better today
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 09, 2015, 09:29:13 am
Right now, the Diamondbacks remind me of the White Sox from last year: very top heavy, but very little depth.  And they'll likely get almost no production from about 3 positions, the bottom spot or two of the rotation, and about two thirds of their bullpen.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 09:34:14 am
The White Sox didn't gut their farm. The team was flawed, but if things broke right you could see a decent team.  I think the Dbacks are very much on the Padres off season plan.  The team is flawed and the farm system is very much weaker and they have no first round pick next year and are in the penalty for IFA.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 09, 2015, 10:19:41 am
Adam Lind traded to the Mariners per Heyman.  They haven't done anything flashy this offseason, but I think they've improved a good bit.  At least they're not just Cano, Seager, and about a half dozen DHs anymore.

Also sounds like Lawrie to White Sox is getting really close.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 09, 2015, 10:47:23 am
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 
The #Dbacks also were in heavy discussions with the #Indians on Danny Salazar before acquiring #Braves Shelby Miller
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 09, 2015, 11:00:43 am
For the sake of Indian fans, I hope they didn't turn down the same deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 12:34:40 pm
Jack McNeil
‏@JackMcNeil44
Dave Stewart: "When you look at Shelby Miller, you're looking at a guy who was traded for Jason Heyward, who is worth $200 million"
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 09, 2015, 12:43:25 pm
heh
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 01:41:00 pm
Sounds like Leake might head to the Nationals.

Padres are listening on Ross.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 09, 2015, 01:44:55 pm
Did method delete a post?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 09, 2015, 01:53:24 pm
I got trolled on the Cards board... i posted info here. it is not accurate so i deleted it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 02:26:31 pm
Niece to Pirates, Walker to NYM
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 09, 2015, 02:43:56 pm
Niece to Pirates, Walker to NYM
Is she nice?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 02:56:04 pm
Ok, Niese.  When the Cubs hit of him, it is nice to watch?

I'm sure the Pirates will turn him into some sort of stud though.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on December 09, 2015, 05:04:41 pm
I keep waiting for someone else to post the biggest news of the winter meetings but it now looks like I have to do it:  Quintin Berry has signed a minor league contract with the Angels.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 09, 2015, 05:15:03 pm
Darwin Barney to Toronto, Bonafacio to the Braves.  The last three signings are all ex-Cub utility guys.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 09, 2015, 05:20:23 pm
Apparently Hak Ju Lee has been signed by the Giants
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 05:41:20 pm
Bonafacio got $1.25 million from the Braves with $1.25 in incentives. Maybe Ryan at $1 million could be traded if they keep Baez.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: ticohans on December 09, 2015, 05:47:23 pm
Maybe Ryan lets the Cubs start Baez in AAA - are they near a service year cutoff with him as it relates to free agency?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 05:51:51 pm
Not sure. He still has 6 years and isn't a Super 2. I'm not sure he gets better facing AAA pitching.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 09, 2015, 05:53:55 pm
Maybe Ryan lets the Cubs start Baez in AAA - are they near a service year cutoff with him as it relates to free agency?
Is his baserunning that bad?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on December 09, 2015, 06:22:11 pm
Maybe Ryan at $1.0 is a big enough contract that he'd accept an outright assignment to Iowa rather than decline, become a free agent and forfeit his money.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 09, 2015, 06:42:00 pm
Jeff for the win...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 09, 2015, 06:45:06 pm
Believe that Ryan's $1 is fully guaranteed---part of a multi-year deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 09, 2015, 06:51:46 pm
Interesting that Chris Davis apparently has 7-year offer ($150) from O's.

Heyward wants 10 years but is 3 1/2 years younger than Davis. Seems like Heyward might age better than Davis.

Should Cubs go 10 years for Heyward?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 09, 2015, 07:01:49 pm
If you believe in the player seeing that he's only 26 then a 10 year deal shouldnt be bad but he wont stay in CF long.

10 years/300 million?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on December 09, 2015, 07:05:21 pm

10 years/300 million?

Uh, no.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 09, 2015, 07:08:41 pm
Realistically, it's going to be a four year deal.  He'll get something like 10/$200 with an opt-out after four years, and there's virtually no chance he doesn't take the opt-out.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 09, 2015, 07:09:02 pm
Buster Olney insinuating our interest isnt legit.

I think the same.

Buster Olney – Verified account ‏@Buster_ESPN

Seeing word of Cubs' interest in STL target Jason Heyward reminds me of how Cashman/Theo/NYY/BOS always worked to push up price for a rival.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: jacey1 on December 09, 2015, 07:24:10 pm
Who was the ass-clown wearing a red STL shirt, trying to get camera time while in the back round of MLB's coverage today? What a freak
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 07:45:54 pm
Giles to Astros for Velasquez, Oberholtzer, and Dereck Fisher.

Davis wants 8/$200 million according to Heyman.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JeffH on December 09, 2015, 07:50:00 pm
Giles to Astros for Velasquez, Oberholtzer, and Dereck Fisher.

**** pissed off about this.  Cubs should have blown that offer out of the water.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 09, 2015, 08:05:21 pm
Don't tell Jeff.  He'll be pissed
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 09, 2015, 08:07:32 pm
Lawrie to the White Sox is done.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 08:08:32 pm
4th unnamed player as well.

I'd laugh if it is Appel.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 09, 2015, 08:43:21 pm
The Mets sign Asdrubal Cabrera, 2 years, $18.5 million. 

Their infield defense is terrible.  Aging Wright, Cabrera, Walker, and Duda.  And I guess Cuddyer and Granderson making up 2/3 of the outfield is pretty awful too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Ron on December 09, 2015, 08:49:43 pm
Interesting that Chris Davis apparently has 7-year offer ($150) from O's.

Heyward wants 10 years but is 3 1/2 years younger than Davis. Seems like Heyward might age better than Davis.

Should Cubs go 10 years for Heyward?

In terms of long-term planning, isn't it true that the only really large commitments to current players are to Zobrist through 2019 and to Lester through 2020 (with a team option for 2021) then the commitments to them will disappear.  Arrieta will need an extension within the next couple of years, but Hammel will go off the books after next year ($10 million with $2 million buyout for 2017).

Meanwhile, Rizzo is signed for a very team friendly amount (with team option) through 2021, and Soler through 2020.  Am I correct that Baez is under control until 2021, Bryant, Russell and Schwarber until 2022?  So the youngsters are not going to become big ticket items until after Hammel, Zobrist and Lester are no longer being paid.  It seems like this might render a long-term, very large Heyward deal practical, especially considering the revenues should increase dramatically with whatever media deals are reached by 2020.

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 08:56:47 pm
Baez has 6 years of control left I think 

I also think BR is right that Heyward gets an opt out around year 4/5 so he'd likely be off the books too.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 08:59:11 pm
The Mets sign Asdrubal Cabrera, 2 years, $18.5 million. 

Their infield defense is terrible.  Aging Wright, Cabrera, Walker, and Duda.  And I guess Cuddyer and Granderson making up 2/3 of the outfield is pretty awful too.

The offense isn't much better. If Lageres's arm heals he is pretty elite in CF on defense, but I'vd seen a couple places where they want to replace him.

So the Mets elite SP pitching. Bad defense, offense and bullpen.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on December 09, 2015, 09:14:32 pm
I'm not up on Mets, but interesting that big-market team is so cheap.  They were 21st in majors in payroll entering last season.  Haven't signed anybody expensive this winter, or retained either of their own FA's thus far, Murphy and Cespedes. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 09, 2015, 09:16:14 pm
Their owners lost a lot of money to Bernie Madoff.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 09, 2015, 09:16:43 pm
Wilpons allegedly lost a bunch of money in the bernie madoff scandal... they made a bunch, then lost a whole lot more.

Now they are one of those owners that are happy to keep milking their team for cash flow vs winning.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 09, 2015, 09:16:53 pm
Because they're still paying Bobby Bonilla?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 10, 2015, 03:09:46 am
Quote from: Rotworld
Josh Harrison - 3B - Pirates

Pirates GM Neal Huntington said Wednesday that Josh Harrison will take over at second base for the traded Neil Walker.
The Pirates shipped Walker to the Mets on Wednesday evening. Per their GM, the plan moving forward is to start Josh Harrison at second with Jung Ho Kang manning the hot corner once he's healthy. Harrison, 28, hit .287/.327/.390 with four homers, 28 RBI and 10 steals across 418 at-bats. He started 37 games at second in 2015.

I guess this goes down as one of those Cubs trades that didn't work out that well for us, but if you're not happy for Josh Harrison, something is wrong with you.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: wmljohn on December 10, 2015, 07:32:44 am
Quote
Because they're still paying Bobby Bonilla?

Damn someone beat me to it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 10, 2015, 08:43:14 am
Who was the ass-clown wearing a red STL shirt, trying to get camera time while in the back round of MLB's coverage today? What a freak
I think Davep is in Florida.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on December 10, 2015, 10:43:37 am
I think Davep is in Florida.
Speaking of red at the winter meetings in Nashville, Ryan Dempster needs a new sports coat.  That checkered monstrosity is as bad as it gets.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 10, 2015, 12:57:36 pm
Padres are close to getting Christian Betancourt for the Braves.  Law is saying Casey Kelly is likely going from Padres to Braves.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 11, 2015, 01:07:07 pm
Kyle Glaser ‏@KyleAGlaser  12m12 minutes ago
BASEBALL: Former #Braves, #Angels SP Tommy Hanson died from ****, alcohol mix, according to autopsy http://bit.ly/1Q7WZKk
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 11, 2015, 01:19:33 pm
Im stunned.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 11, 2015, 03:18:27 pm
Interesting how agents benefit by representing players who all have similar interests. So long as full disclosure to all involved, not really a conflict of interest I guess. But, by helping to steer Heyward from Cardinals to Cubs, Casey Close now creates opportunities for his clients--- in St. Louis. Presumably, Heyward fine with departing Cards, but now Cards very eager to get another Close client because Heyward departed.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/st-louis-cardinals-jason-heyward-chicago-cubs-casey-alex-gordon-close-dexter-fowler-121115
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 11, 2015, 03:22:23 pm
Wonder how long it took to negotiate this part of Greinke's deal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/675414321866907649
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 11, 2015, 08:24:55 pm
Wow, Michael Cuddyer is retiring.  He's letting the Mets off the hook for $12.5 million this year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 11, 2015, 10:19:13 pm
He turned down a QO last season that would have paid more in 2015...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 12, 2015, 08:10:47 am
Mariners sign Steve Cishek to be their closer. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 12, 2015, 08:49:31 am
he seems like a bad replacement for Carson Smith.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 12, 2015, 09:45:18 am
Another Cardinal gone.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 12, 2015, 09:46:24 am
Pirates trade Charlie Morton to the Phillies. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 12, 2015, 12:36:24 pm
The Ken Giles trade turns out to be bigger than initially reported:

Evan Drellich @EvanDrellich
Ken Giles and shortstop Jonathan Arauz from Phils for Mark Appel, Harold Arauz, Thomas Eshelman, Brett Oberholtzer and Velasquez.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 12, 2015, 01:02:27 pm
HaHa Astros. Thankfully they screwed that pick up. It would have been great if they hadn't picked Correa the year before, there was a bunch of rumors that the Cubs would have picked him at #6 instead.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: aTm on December 14, 2015, 10:49:38 am
HaHa Astros. Thankfully they screwed that pick up. It would have been great if they hadn't picked Correa the year before, there was a bunch of rumors that the Cubs would have picked him at #6 instead.

You would trade Bryant for Correa then? Because that would have been the result.  The Astros probably would have agreed to terms with Appel in 2012 if they weren't interested in Correa, leaving Bryant as the pick in 2013.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 14, 2015, 11:05:25 am
You would trade Bryant for Correa then? Because that would have been the result.  The Astros probably would have agreed to terms with Appel in 2012 if they weren't interested in Correa, leaving Bryant as the pick in 2013.

I'm not 100% on that.  They might have taken Gray.  Going into the draft Appel/Bryant/Gray were all clumped together in a group.  Correa for Bryant would be interesting, I'm not sure who I would rather have.  I think the chances are decent that Correa will end up at third at some point.  He'll give better defense, less K's.  Bryant will have more power.  Both are really good young players.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 14, 2015, 03:26:56 pm
Cueto is going to the Giants.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 14, 2015, 03:29:59 pm
Heyman saying more money than he turned down with the DBacks.  If he's healthy in that park he will be amazing.  His health scares me.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 14, 2015, 03:30:49 pm
Dodgers fans thrilled again by their front office non-moves.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on December 14, 2015, 03:39:27 pm
I'm enjoying the rumors that Kershaw went to the front office and told them they need to trade Puig.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: guest61 on December 14, 2015, 03:47:01 pm
I heard the same.

Word is the phrase "cancer" isnt quite strong enough in describing him.

Then there's Aroldis Chapman putting hands on his old lady.

When you consider Jorge Soler's incident during a brawl when he was in the minors you begin to kinda understand why we seem to be in such a hurry to move that type of talent.

Or at least you can come up with a pretty good assumption.

Oh my bad...I forgot...he cant hit in cold weather.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 14, 2015, 03:58:28 pm
One of the rumors I heard was when they where in Chicago the bus stopped so that rookies could go buy the vets piazza and Puig was trying to find his suitcase underneath the bus and must have held up the bus.  Greinke got so mad he went and found Puig's bad and threw it into the middle of the street.  A couple of the vets, I think one was Haren, actually took an Uber cab to the team hotel.

I don't think there have been any rumors about Soler being a bad teammate.

So the Giants spent $220 million on 2 pitchers.  If they get good Samardzija and healthy Cueto that could be a much better deal than Greinke or Price.  The beta is pretty high on it working though.

Edit: Cueto also gets an opt out after 2017.  Really good deal for him, but I'd be worried if I was a Giants fan.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on December 14, 2015, 04:39:31 pm

(http://media.jrn.com/images/pete61712.jpg)

Pete Rose's plea for reinstatement rejected by Rob Manfred


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/commissioner-rejects-pete-roses-plea-reinstatement-180700733--mlb.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/commissioner-rejects-pete-roses-plea-reinstatement-180700733--mlb.html)


Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 14, 2015, 04:43:30 pm
Elect him to the HOF, induction post mortem.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on December 14, 2015, 04:44:45 pm
One of the rumors I heard was when they where in Chicago the bus stopped so that rookies could go buy the vets piazza and Puig was trying to find his suitcase underneath the bus and must have held up the bus.  Greinke got so mad he went and found Puig's bad and threw it into the middle of the street.  A couple of the vets, I think one was Haren, actually took an Uber cab to the team hotel.

I don't think there have been any rumors about Soler being a bad teammate.

So the Giants spent $220 million on 2 pitchers.  If they get good Samardzija and healthy Cueto that could be a much better deal than Greinke or Price.  The beta is pretty high on it working though.

Edit: Cueto also gets an opt out after 2017.  Really good deal for him, but I'd be worried if I was a Giants fan.


Why should they worry since it's an even-numbered year.  If the pattern holds, it is time for another World Series championship for them.  He might break down in 2017, but this next season he will be great.

#SFGiants-2016.World.Series.Champs



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 14, 2015, 04:55:08 pm
From 2010-2014 either the Cards or Giants won the National League.  The Cubs already took care of half of that, now the just need to break the Giants WS streak. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Jes Beard on December 14, 2015, 06:10:13 pm
Elect him to the HOF, induction post mortem.

I don't think they should even vote on him until he is dead.

Now, once he is, I would hope they would allow a vote on him and that he would be a easy first ballot pick.

Once he is dead.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 15, 2015, 02:08:49 pm
Cardinals getting lots of bad press for non-moves so far and GM comments about no longer pursuing $100 million guys but one move could get them back on track: trading for Carlos Gonzalez. Makes so much sense for them. Two year commitment only. Big bat to replace Heyward. Move Piscotty to 1B. 

Rockies beat writer generally on trading CarGo:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/rockies/2015/12/14/carlos-gonzalez-breaking-down-trade-rumors-for-rockies-rf/21306/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 16, 2015, 10:54:04 am
Quote
Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 
Source: Dodgers, White Sox nearing a trade. Top pitching prospect Frankie Montas is going to Los Angeles, so it could be pretty big.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: BearHit on December 16, 2015, 10:57:36 am
That'll do, Puig
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: DelMarFan on December 16, 2015, 11:03:55 am
That'll do, Puig

Nice.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 16, 2015, 11:05:15 am
Passan says Puig is not going to the White Sox.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 16, 2015, 11:11:06 am
It's a bigger trade--the Reds are involved too, and Frazier is going to the White Sox according to Heyman.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 16, 2015, 11:19:35 am
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS  2m2 minutes ago
montas micah johnson and trayce thompson go to dodgers

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  2m2 minutes ago
Peraza, Dixon, Schebler go to #Reds
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on December 16, 2015, 11:49:47 am
LOL whitesox
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 16, 2015, 11:50:20 am
I think I'd rather have Frazier than Puig anyway. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 16, 2015, 11:54:52 am
Surprised the Reds traded Frazier.  I know they need to shed payroll, but Frazier is a hometown hero.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 16, 2015, 11:56:41 am
Yeah, but Frazier also is a free agent in two years, and the Reds are more than two years away from being competitive again.  It's time for them to tear down and rebuild--Phillips, Bruce, and even Votto should be next.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 16, 2015, 12:20:18 pm
I love Joey Votto as a player.  He's owed $20+ million every year until 2024 when he'll be 41.  I really doubt they are going to find a team that wants to trade for him.

It sure seems like the Dodgers got the better package of prospects in that trade.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 16, 2015, 01:10:10 pm
Dodgers traded three prospects for three prospects. Very unusual for a club to make a deal like that. Occasionally see prospect-for-prospect deal but multi-player prospects deal? Rare.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 16, 2015, 02:44:20 pm
Its not a terrible deal for the Sox.

They fix 3b problems. Lawrie is better at 2b than as a 3rd baseman.

Frazier leaves in 2 years and comp pick is likely better then 2 of the 3 guys they gave up.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 16, 2015, 04:00:28 pm
It was a good trade for the White Sox and Dodgers.  I'm not sure what the Reds see in Peraza, it seems like they got the worst part of the deal.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 17, 2015, 10:18:35 am
Dodgers off season is going well....

Kazuto Yamazaki
‏@Kazuto_Yamazaki
Jiji Press reporting the Dodgers backing out from Iwakuma after failed physical. http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASHDK7RMLHDKKJZR00C.html …

Pitching be expensive

Roch KubatkoVerified account
‏@masnRoch
Fans who keep asking if #orioles might re-sign Wei-Yin Chen: Hear he's seeking 5 years, $100 mil. So....no. It's clear team has moved on

Robert Murray ‏@RobertMurrayBBE  7m7 minutes ago
Robert Murray Retweeted Roch Kubatko
Have heard this as well about Chen. Have also heard Scott Kazmir is seeking 3-4 years at around $18 million a year. 

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 17, 2015, 10:20:09 am
It was a good trade for the White Sox and Dodgers.  I'm not sure what the Reds see in Peraza, it seems like they got the worst part of the deal.

if peraza and hamilton can pull off just 320 obps... the reds will have a fun offense to watch.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 17, 2015, 10:23:09 am
if peraza and hamilton can pull off just 320 obps... the reds will have a fun offense to watch.

I'll I have to do is win the lottery and I'm rich.....
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: method on December 17, 2015, 10:34:07 am
Hamilton showed a lot of improvement last year.

Peraza is only 21. why cant he grow and improve like baez?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 17, 2015, 12:03:08 pm
Hamilton's OBP went from .292 in 2014 to .274 last year.  I'm not sure that is improvement.

Both players are speed guys with no power that don't walk.  There isn't a lot they can do to improve their game they are heavily BABIP dependent players and Hamilton strikes out way too much to be that type of guy.  Peraza might be able to, but it is a tough profile to count on.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on December 17, 2015, 12:12:41 pm
Rosenthal says Dodgers, Cardinals after Leake. Didn't make it clear if it's just those two at this point.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 17, 2015, 12:34:58 pm
Heard Arizona is out on Leake, despite his reported willingness to take a hometown discount to play there...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Bennett on December 17, 2015, 12:44:04 pm
Heard Arizona is out on Leake, despite his reported willingness to take a hometown discount to play there...
Leake is from California but played for Arizona State where he may have unfavorable memories of being charged with shoplifting some shirts.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 17, 2015, 12:53:18 pm
Just repeating what I heard...
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 17, 2015, 12:56:22 pm
There have been multiple reports that Leake would take less money to go back to Arizona.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 17, 2015, 01:20:24 pm
Maybe he needs more shirts.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 17, 2015, 08:24:07 pm
Brandon Phillips ‏@DatDudeBP
513 to 202 ✈️ #PapaPope #OnDeck


Speculation is that Brandon Phillips has been traded to the Nationals--513 is the Cincinnati area code, and 202 is Washington DC.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 17, 2015, 11:51:31 pm
Iwaki a resigns with the Mariners.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on December 18, 2015, 12:02:46 am
(http://www.sarlacc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/FullSizeRender-19.jpg)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 18, 2015, 01:27:26 am
(http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/1200_630/5666084b1600002800e553cb.jpeg?cache=pduhadounk)
(http://cdn0.dailydot.com/cache/cf/46/cf464105a75b58329c6bc46081235e44.jpg)
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 18, 2015, 09:19:54 am
Iwaki was all my phone. I spelled out Iwakuma. Force Awakens was great though.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 18, 2015, 09:32:12 am
The Reds and Nationals have apparently agreed to a deal for Brandon Phillips, but they're waiting on Phillips to decide if he'll waive his no trade clause.  Rosenthal says Phillips wants a "significant benefit" if he's going to waive it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 18, 2015, 02:15:07 pm
Henderson Alavarez is close to a deal with the A's.  $4 million with incentives.

Blue Jays claimed Junior Lake.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 18, 2015, 02:38:23 pm
Quote
Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 
Source: A's deal with Henderson Alvarez should be done soon. Going to be for one year, $4M+, big incentives. @jonheymancbs had them close.

I've got to say, I'm really starting to wonder if Billy Beane has lost his edge.  I really don't understand a lot of what he's done over the last few years.  The Russell trade seemed ill-advised, and then he didn't get back anywhere close to the same value from the White Sox.  The Donaldson trade was brutal.  And then he's been throwing a lot of money around to players who just aren't very good--$10 million per to Billy Butler last offseason; 3 years, $22 million to Ryan Madson despite his injury history; $6 million to Rich Hill; and now 4 million to a guy whose shoulder may be shot.  For a small market team, that's a lot of money thrown at Butler and three lottery tickets.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on December 18, 2015, 03:05:07 pm
I wonder if this is the losing small-market plague.  Hard to attract good players at good prices. 

Cubs have this fun manager, great young future, holy grail to pursue, a passionate fan base.  What does Beane have to sell? 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 18, 2015, 03:09:24 pm
An occasional slip and slide in the clubhouse?

http://www.mercurynews.com/athletics/ci_25448527/oakland-coliseum-greets-another-sewage-backup
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CurtOne on December 18, 2015, 03:10:22 pm
I wonder if this is the losing small-market plague.  Hard to attract good players at good prices. 

Cubs have this fun manager, great young future, holy grail to pursue, a passionate fan base.  What does Beane have to sell? 
A mid-season trade to a contender?
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: craig on December 18, 2015, 03:16:09 pm
I think it's kind of cool how the Cubs, with their century-plus failure to win a World Series, are now selling that as the last great pursuit in sport.  No more "Cubs are cursed" negativity; instead it's the coolest, funnest pursuit in sports. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on December 18, 2015, 05:30:13 pm
I think it's kind of cool how the Cubs, with their century-plus failure to win a World Series, are now selling that as the last great pursuit in sport.  No more "Cubs are cursed" negativity; instead it's the coolest, funnest pursuit in sports.

It helps when you have young talent, a charismatic manager, and resources you're willing to spend. Course, they had these things after 2003 too. It netted them Hawkins and Maddux.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Dave23 on December 18, 2015, 07:57:57 pm
LOL
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Chris27 on December 18, 2015, 10:13:54 pm
Junior Lake claimed by Toronto. So I guess we can pencil him in for 25 homers and an .850 OPS next year.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 19, 2015, 12:44:59 am
An interesting comeback attempt for 2016.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/rangers-sign-2004-1-pick-matt-bush/
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 19, 2015, 10:59:42 am
The Cardinals off season hasn't gone well.
-Lackey and Hayward to the Cubs
-Lynn TJS
-Molina needs a second surgery on his thumb
-Grichuk had a sports hernia surgery.  I'm not sure about how it affects baseball players.  A bunch of football players that have had it in there off-season have struggled the next year because it limited their off-season work outs.
-They are talking to the Rays about Odorizzi. 
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 22, 2015, 08:49:27 am
The Cardinals are close to signing Mike Leake.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on December 22, 2015, 09:18:59 am
meh
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 22, 2015, 09:33:06 am
Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 
Source: Leake deal with Cardinals expected to be in 5-year, $75M range and could include an option.


That's a lot of money for a guy who has been a #4/#5 starter his whole career.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 22, 2015, 09:45:51 am
Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 
Source: Leake deal with Cardinals expected to be in 5-year, $75M range and could include an option.


That's a lot of money for a guy who has been a #4/#5 starter his whole career.

Yeah but once he puts on a Cardinal uniform, he'll be at least a #2 from that moment onward.

After all, Leake is certainly a guy who's not afraid to be the man in St. Louis.  He was even willing to betrade the Giants to make it happen.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 22, 2015, 09:53:55 am
Leake has agreed to a deal pending a physical.  It's fine with me if the Cardinals want to spend their money on him instead of a hitter, which is what they really need.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 22, 2015, 09:57:24 am
That's not a bad deal, really.  Leake is young for a FA and he's closer to a #3-4 than a #4-5.  He's not going to be a game-changer but the floor is pretty high.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 22, 2015, 10:09:39 am
Quote
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal  2m2 minutes ago
Source: Leake deal is five years, $80M with mutual option that could increase total value to $93M/$94M range.

Well, now it's pushing it.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 22, 2015, 10:18:45 am
The deal also has a full no trade clause. 

Leake has reached 2 fWAR only twice in his career; he has also reached 2 rWAR just twice in his career.  He eats innings which has value, but there's no real upside there.  I would've hated this contract if the Cubs had given it to him.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: brjones on December 22, 2015, 10:33:56 am
Alejandro De Aza is close to a one year deal with the Mets. 

With Granderson, Conforto, Lagares, and De Aza, are they out of the market for a significant outfield addition?  The way the outfield market is moving, I'm really starting to wonder if Fowler is going to regret not taking the QO.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 22, 2015, 10:37:36 am
Just to be clear what Leake is:

3.88/4.21/3.81  Career ERA/FIP/xFIP.

career ERA-: 100
career FIP-:  107
career xFIP-: 99

The much maligned Hammel is 106/101/100. 



Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 22, 2015, 10:40:34 am
If Hammel could get through a full season without tanking or getting hurt, he'd be worth what Leake is getting paid.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: goblue007 on December 22, 2015, 10:50:29 am
I guess I don't follow how Lester, a 5-war player is a 3; Leake a 2-war guy is a 3-4. 

Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 22, 2015, 11:11:35 am
ERA-/FIP-xFIP- in 2015

Mike Leake: 96/108101
Jason Hammel: 96/94/90

Leake pitched 21.2 more innings than Hammel.  Leake average 6.4 IP/start.  Hammel 5.5 IP/start.  Chances are really decent that with Madden Leake would pitch less innings as well.   
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Deeg on December 22, 2015, 11:19:25 am
Leake is also five years younger than Hammel and pitched half his games in one of the best hitters parks in baseball.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 22, 2015, 11:48:59 am
The ERA- park and league adjusts.

For the Giants he put up  4.07/4.83/4.34 with arguably the best pitchers park in the league.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 22, 2015, 12:52:36 pm
Fox is replacing Reynolds and Verducci with John Smoltz for national broadcasts.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: JR on December 22, 2015, 01:08:55 pm
Fox is replacing Reynolds and Verducci with John Smoltz for national broadcasts.

That's a definite upgrade.

Then again, Will Ferrell's impression of Harry Caray would be an upgrade over Harold Reynolds . . . or Joe Buck for that matter.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 22, 2015, 01:42:00 pm
Some of you are way out of touch on Leake and have been for some time.

The market is relevant---especially when multiple smart teams are setting that market. Cards, Giants are not stupid. They are not offering 5/$80 or whatever to Jason Hammel in 2015.

Leake went directly from AZ State to big leagues, so he's a better pitcher now and probably going forward than early in his career. Sure, for those who consider ERA "unworthy of consideration" and/or mostly disregard value of a 200 inning starting pitcher, you won't get it. Leake is probably slightly closer to a 3 than a 4 but consider him a solid 3/4 going forward. A guy you can count on for around 200 innings with ERA of 3.70 or so is valuable. A good fit for Cards.

No, he isn't scary to face when he's today's starting pitcher and he doesn't really have an upside but the market of smart clubs tells you that he isn't Jason Hammel going forward.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: CUBluejays on December 22, 2015, 01:55:50 pm
2016 Steamer Projections
Hammel  3.75 ERA/3.8 FIP 2.2 WAR
Leake      4.13 ERA/4.22 FIP 2.0 WAR

ZIPS Projections Leake
2016  3.77 ERA 2.5 WAR
2017  3.81 ERA 2.4 WAR
2018  3.77 ERA 2.4 WAR
2019  3.78 ERA 2.2 WAR
2020  3.85 ERA 2.0 WAR

Yep, Leake is clearly better than Hammel and worth an extra $50 million.  I think a smart team already got the good deal.  The Cards are just paying the market rate.
Title: Re: Around Baseball
Post by: Reb on December 22, 2015