Bleacher Bums Forum
General Category => Archives => Topic started by: Pekin on January 07, 2012, 06:11:40 pm
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Please let the 2011 NFL Draft topic die and start all new draft talk for this year here.
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Colston would be intersting if available.
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So would you rather have Colston or VJackson? That might be the question.
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Jackson.
I have watched Colston fumble once and drop another in the endzone tonight.
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Agreed, but he is hands down better than anybody the Bears have now. ;)
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1. Keep Cutler upright
2. Help Cutler toss
Pick in either order in the first 2 rounds.
WR/OL
OL/WR
The problem is we dont know who the GM is. ???
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If the GM is Ruskell I am becoming a Packers/Patriots fan. I cant believe I just said that, but it is true.
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Lets get PEANUT some help
Morris Claiborne*, CB, LSU
Height: 6-0. Weight: 188.
Projected 40 Time: 4.40.
Projected Round (2012): Top 10.
Dre Kirkpatrick*, CB, Alabama
Height: 6-3. Weight: 190.
Projected 40 Time: 4.46.
Projected Round (2012): Top 20 Pick.
Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska
Height: 5-10. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.45.
Projected Round (2012): Top 25 Pick.
Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama
Height: 5-10. Weight: 188.
Projected 40 Time: 4.45.
Projected Round (2011): Top 25 Pick.
Chase Minnifield, CB, Virginia
Height: 6-0. Weight: 185.
Projected 40 Time: 4.46.
Projected Round (2012): 1.
Desmond Trufant*, CB, Washington
Height: 6-0. Weight: 184.
Projected 40 Time: 4.42.
Projected Round (2012): 2.
Stephon Gilmore*, CB, South Carolina
Height: 6-1. Weight: 190.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Jayron Hosley*, CB/PR, Virginia Tech
Height: 5-10. Weight: 172.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Casey Hayward, CB, Vanderbilt
Height: 5-11. Weight: 188.
Projected 40 Time: 4.47.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Xavier Rhodes*, CB, Florida State
Height: 6-2. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.44.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Micah Hyde*, CB, Iowa
Height: 6-1. Weight: 185.
Projected 40 Time: 4.51.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Shaun Prater, CB, Iowa
Height: 5-11. Weight: 180.
Projected 40 Time: 4.47.
Projected Round (2012): 3.
Donnie Fletcher, CB, Boston College
Height: 6-1. Weight: 200.
Projected 40 Time: 4.49.
Projected Round (2012): 3.
DeQuan Menzie, CB, Alabama
Height: 6-0. Weight: 195.
Projected 40 Time: 4.52.
Projected Round (2012): 3.
Keith Tandy, CB, West Virginia
Height: 5-10. Weight: 198.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
Coryell Judie, CB, Texas A&M
Height: 5-11. Weight: 188.
Projected 40 Time: 4.39.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
Leonard Johnson, CB, Iowa State
Height: 5-10. Weight: 195.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
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In other news Friday, the Bears signed tight end Draylen Ross, guard Reggie Stephens and cornerback Donovan Warren to reserve/future contracts.
DRAYLEN ROSS
Ht: 6' 4" Wt: 271 Age: 23
Born: 3/21/1988, Fort Worth, TX
College: North Texas
NFL Experience: Rookie season
REGGIE STEPHENS
Ht: 6' 2" Wt: 325 Age: 24
Born: 8/28/1987, Rowlett, TX
College: Iowa State
NFL Experience: 2nd season
Drafted: 2010 - Rd 7
(228th overall by the Bengals)
DONOVEN WARREN
Ht: 5' 11" Wt: 193 Age: 22
Born: 1/31/1989, Long Beach, CA
College: Michigan
NFL Experience: 1st season
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Who signed them Ruskellowski? See I keep telling you guys the Bears already have their GM
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Signing guys like that is no big deal. Especially with all the money the Bears are under the cap.
Ruskell is in charge until someone else is hired. If he is named GM I will be pissed. Until then I will reserve judgement.
I ahve no problem with Tice being OC. That only means we keep the same terminology which I was very in favor of. I did not want Cutler and the offensive players learning an entirely new system. Much better to adapt the one we have.
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Oh I am in favor of Tice for sure. IMHO its only gonna be for one more year anyways then I expect the housecleaning to begin
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5 Offensive Linemen worth taking a look at.
1. Matt Kalil, T, USC: There is a reason Tyron Smith, the Cowboys' first-round pick this year, played right tackle instead of on the left side. Kalil is that reason.
2. Jonathan Martin, T, Stanford (Jr.): One of the top left tackles in the nation. At 6-6, 310 pounds, he is the one who protects Luck's blindside. He has great feet and the system helps his stock.
3. Matt Reynolds, T, BYU: He has good size at 6-6 325 pounds and he has good feet in pass protection. Plays in a pro-style offense, which helps.
4. Nate Potter, T, Boise State: He's 6-6, 300 pounds and he plays in a pro-style offense where he does a lot of pass protection. That will help his value. A lot like Nate Solder, who went in the first round last year.
5. Riley Reiff, T, Iowa (Jr.): He has been a starter since he was a freshman. The NFL loves Iowa linemen because they are so well coached.
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Looks like some solid choices
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We could use one of those drafts where we have 15 picks- we're that depleted in talent. Angielow really let this club sink in terms of talent level. We've got some talent in spots but it's older talent and there's nothing in reserve like most top teams have. We've got a empty tank thanks to him....
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I've seen a few mock drafts with us taking a CB and usually it's the guy from Nebraska but based on what I've seen and read I wouldn't be happy with that pick at all. #1, Dennard is best suited for press coverage (which we don't play), #2, the scouting reports paint a picture of a guy who too often doesn't play up to his measurables because of mental / technique lapses and #3, I've seen a fair amount of Nebraksa games over the years and their D-backfield gets torched pretty regularly. For a Top 20 draft pick you had better get a guy that's NFL ready from Day 1 and I don't see Dennard being that player.
Now OTOH, if by some miracle the CB from Bama (Kirkpatrick) fell to us... he would be hands down the best available player at any position and would be a no-brainer.
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Don't worry about those mock drafts UNTIL Ruskell, er I mean, our new GM takes over.
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I'm already excited about the draft and we don't even have a GM yet. We definitely need to take advantage of this great offensive line class coming in. Protecting Cutler and giving him someone to throw to should be the two top priorities this year.
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This offseason comes down to picking up 4 (possibly 5) critical players:
- A starting LT
- A #1 WR (big, strong, fast -- the whole package)
- A 3rd DE with big-time pass rush ability
- A CB who can immediately upgrade the #2 opposite Tillman and replace him as our 1 in 2-3 years
- (Possibly) A 2nd WR to complete our WR trio (along with the #1, and Bennett); depending on what scheme Tice installs and the fate of Johnny Knox, this could either be a small, blazing fast Knox type or a possession-plus, 1a type WR
If we get those 5 players in here and Tice can put some sort of competitive offense on the field on a regular basis, we're back in the hunt (assuming all our injured guys come back 100% of course). With 4 draft picks in the top 3 rounds and a bunch of room under the cap to go after FAs, there is no excuse for not getting every one of those needs addressed between now and May. Any GM who knows what he's doing should be able to get this to-do list handled without a great deal of difficulty.
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Thats a tall order know its going to be Ruskell and not Angelo or an outsider.
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IS Tice the OC now? Hadn't seen anything on it...
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Yes Lovie promoted him
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Thats a tall order know its going to be Ruskell and not Angelo or an outsider.
That's why I said, "for a GM who knows what he's doing", it's not too much to bring in new players at 5 positions with three or possibly four of them being instant-upgrade starters from Day One. Especially when you've got as much FA cap space as we have and 4 picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft.
I am not at all convinced that our next GM, however, will be up to that task.
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Wow what just happened at Oakland with the new GM coming in ... HC fired day one.
Would you give up a second to Miami for Brandon Marshall?
We have two picks in the third round and you know what that means?
Cornerbacks ... gimme two !
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As long as we pick up the best available wideout in the 1st and a OT in the 2nd....
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yes I would send a #2 to MIA for Marshall possibly both of our 3rds.
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You know, if I was convinced Marshall and Cutler could pick up where they left off in Denver, I'd give up our 2nd in a heartbeat. But since I'm not, I'd say we start the offer at a 3rd. And honestly since we've got more money than we do high picks, I'd rather just sign a stud WR in FA and save the picks for other needs of which we have several.
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Do not trade away any draft picks. They need to get younger and you do that with draft picks.
They lost two getting Cutler and it was worth it but they can not afford to lose any more.
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Do not trade away any draft picks. They need to get younger and you do that with draft picks.
They lost two getting Cutler and it was worth it but they can not afford to lose any more.
You would not swap a second for Brandon Marshall?
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No.
First of all no way Miami trades their best offensive weapon for a second. As someone (Yapper I believe) said the Bears have tons of money under the cap.
Get the true #1 WR in free agency and stock up on young players. If the Bears do not make the play offs next year they will fire Lovie and will have to rebuild. Even if they make the play offs they have to start re-stocking the shelves with younger players.
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No.
First of all no way Miami trades their best offensive weapon for a second. As someone (Yapper I believe) said the Bears have tons of money under the cap.
Get the true #1 WR in free agency and stock up on young players. If the Bears do not make the play offs next year they will fire Lovie and will have to rebuild. Even if they make the play offs they have to start re-stocking the shelves with younger players.
I wouldnt predict that Lovie would be here beyond next month after what happened at Oakland.
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The Raiders did not say Jackson was safe before they hired a GM.
The Bears did.
The Bears did the same thing with Jauron and he was safe.
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This offseason comes down to picking up 4 (possibly 5) critical players:
- A starting LT
- A #1 WR (big, strong, fast -- the whole package)
- A 3rd DE with big-time pass rush ability
- A CB who can immediately upgrade the #2 opposite Tillman and replace him as our 1 in 2-3 years
- (Possibly) A 2nd WR to complete our WR trio (along with the #1, and Bennett); depending on what scheme Tice installs and the fate of Johnny Knox, this could either be a small, blazing fast Knox type or a possession-plus, 1a type WR
If we get those 5 players in here and Tice can put some sort of competitive offense on the field on a regular basis, we're back in the hunt (assuming all our injured guys come back 100% of course). With 4 draft picks in the top 3 rounds and a bunch of room under the cap to go after FAs, there is no excuse for not getting every one of those needs addressed between now and May. Any GM who knows what he's doing should be able to get this to-do list handled without a great deal of difficulty.
Yapper - The closest thing to this in recent memory would be what Philly did last year getting Babin, Jenkins, and the CB from the Raiders that I can't spell his name and then back-up QB Young. Give me an example that you are thinking of, it just seems that what you rolled out there would be very difficult and not as you put it, any run of the mill GM out there among the 32.
The starting cornerstone LT is likely the hardest position to fill in the NFL. Possibility ranking 5 (hardest to fill from your list)
A number 1 receiver, ala Megatron - perhaps VJackson, that is doable. There will be many, not just us pursuing. Possibility ranking 3
A 3rd DE with big pass rushing ability, like...? Tell me some comparables that you would say fit the bill and tell me some FAs or potential draftees that would be available? I'd say it is hard to predict what a draftee will do. Possibility ranking 4
A number 2 CB, completely agree, that maybe the easiest of your list to complete. There just have to be upgrades out there better than Jennings. I'd even be interested in getting someone to be a #1, and have Tillman be the #2. Possibility ranking 1
A 1a receiver? I am concerned about Knox. That was just brutal, never seen an injury like that occur. That was Theismanesque. I think if he returns and with Bennett, we are okay. That is a big if. I'd probably try to find someone like that in the draft similar to Knox. Short, quick, burst guy. I think Hester needs to be relegated to 3rd downs and a package of routes that fit his skills. I still think that Philly does it best with DJackson when his head is in the game. Don't send Hester down the seam to catch the ball in traffic, his hands just aren't reliable. Possibility ranmking 2
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Yaps - After reading your post again I see you included the draft picks in the first 3 rounds. I still believe the draft is very hard to predict booms and busts outside of the top 12 picks. You can't miss in the top 12, after that hit and miss.
How would everyone rate the draft? While I know Carimi has some yellow flags on him from a few teams, given where we drafted in the first round he was good value. He showed the edge we were looking for and was injured. How many games did he miss in college?
Paea - I think looks like a player. For whatever reason, the Bears brought him along slowly last season. He seemed to be a playmaker once he got on the field and I think he and Melton, Okoye is a nice young core that I hope we can keep together. We still need a big plugger, not sure who that is.
Conte - Good pick, was criticised by many on this board at the time of his selection. He looked solid and with a year under his belt I'd look to see him used closer to the line following his rookie season. I am not saying he is our strong safety, but I think the coaches were putting him routinely 20 years of the LOS. Look for that to pinch up.
Enderle - Hate the pick. Waste of a 5th round pick when you have a top QB in his prime. Cutler is 27 and we don't need to be drafting developmental QBs. Stupid pick.
Thomas - Injury red shirt, likely no more than a special teams player.
After seeing it for a season. I'd give this draft a B- considering where the Bears picked and the production they got in return. Carimi if healthy would have pushed this draft up to a solid B. 3 Starters out of this draft.
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if you look at Angelo's last 3-4 drafts, a higher number of his players have stuck than in his previous drafts.
He mentioned changing his philosophy the year he drafted Williams and Forte and it shows.
Now maybe the answer is we were so bad it was easier to find guys who stuck but I don't think that was the case.
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They better be drafting a QB this year - hopefully one that can compete with McCown for the #2 spot
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Grizz -
Here's how you do it.
- LT: sign in FA (preferably), OR draft Mike Adams from Ohio State with our 1st round pick; our LT position is so weak that we can take the best OT available at 19 and he'll still be an upgrade.
- #1 WR: via FA
- 3rd DE: Draft Melvin Ingram or the Coples kid from UNC with our 1st round pick, OR sign in FA (Cliff Avril may be available)
- 2nd CB: Draft with our 2nd round pick. This year's CB class is deep. We won't be getting a top-tier CB in the 2nd round but we should still be able to get a guy that's better than Jennings or Bowman out of the gate. Like LT, this is a position where the current guys are so shaky that a decent rookie should still represent an upgrade.
- 2nd WR: Package our two 3rd round picks to get back up into the 2nd round and there, take either the WR from UNC, or Nick Toon, or if we need to replace Knox there should be a smaller speed guy available here too.
That's our 5 big needs, addressed right there with no more than two big FA outlays our first 4 picks of the draft. And we still have rounds 4-7 of the draft to use for depth, upgrade STs or whatever.
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Angie's drafts....players in bold still on the team. 2011 squad, jurys still out on them. 10' squad, sucks. 09' squad, for having 9 picks, with what little came of it, sucks. His most successful was the 08' of the four. Still he has produced VERY little in the way of playmakers or difference makers and even fewer Pro Bowl players. Forte is it....not impressive AT all!!! Glad he is GONE!!!!!!
2011
Rnd Name
1 Gabe Carimi
2 Stephen Paea
3 Chris Conte
5 Nathan Enderle
6 J.T. Thomas
2010
Rnd Name
3 Major Wright
4 Corey Wootton
5 Joshua Moore -Practice Squad player
6 Dan LeFevour
7 J'Marcus Webb
2009
Rnd Name
3 Jarron Gilbert
3 Juaquin Iglesias
4 Henry Melton
4 D.J. Moore
5 Johnny Knox
5 Marcus Freeman
6 Al Afalava
7 Lance Louis
7 Derek Kinder
2008
Rnd Name
1 Chris Williams
2 Matt Forte
3 Earl Bennett
3 Marcus Harrison
4 Craig Steltz
5 Zackary Bowman
5 Kellen Davis
7 Ervin Baldwin
7 Chester Adams
7 Joey LaRocque
7 Kirk Barton
7 Marcus Monk
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A few WR's of note coming up in the 2012 draft.
Justin Blackmon*, WR, Oklahoma State
Height: 6-1. Weight: 208.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2012): Top 10 Pick.
Alshon Jeffery*, WR, South Carolina
Height: 6-4. Weight: 233.
Projected 40 Time: 4.50.
Projected Round (2012): Top 20 Pick.
Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
Height: 6-3. Weight: 218.
Projected 40 Time: 4.51.
Projected Round (2012): Top 20 Pick.
Dwight Jones, WR, North Carolina
Height: 6-4. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.55.
Projected Round (2012): 1-2.
Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
Height: 5-10. Weight: 190.
Projected 40 Time: 4.39.
Projected Round (2012): 1-2.
Mohamed Sanu*, WR, Rutgers
Height: 6-2. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.50.
Projected Round (2012): 1-2.
Marvin McNutt, WR, Iowa
Height: 6-4. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.58.
Projected Round (2012): 2.
Tommy Streeter*, WR, Miami
Height: 6-5. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.52.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Rueben Randle*, WR, LSU
Height: 6-4. Weight: 207.
Projected 40 Time: 4.51.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Nick Toon, WR, Wisconsin
Height: 6-3. Weight: 217.
Projected 40 Time: 4.60.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Jordan White, WR, Western Michigan
Height: 6-0. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
T.Y. Hilton, WR/KR, Florida International
Height: 5-10. Weight: 183.
Projected 40 Time: 4.41.
Projected Round (2012): 3.
Ryan Broyles, WR/PR, Oklahoma
Height: 5-11. Weight: 185.
Projected 40 Time: 4.46.
Projected Round (2012): 3.
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After the loss of Olsen,thanks to angelo, who was Cutlers safety valve ...
we should notice what N.E. is doing with two T.E.'s.
They are lining up Hernandez at RB and he is getting numbers against Denver.
Here's some T.E.'s worth note.
Dwayne Allen*, TE, Clemson
Height: 6-4. Weight: 255.
Projected 40 Time: 4.65.
Projected Round (2012): 1-2.
Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford
Height: 6-6. Weight: 248.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Tyler Eifert*, TE, Notre Dame
Height: 6-6. Weight: 242.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Orson Charles*, TE, Georgia
Height: 6-3. Weight: 241.
Projected 40 Time: 4.66.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
David Paulson, TE, Oregon
Height: 6-4. Weight: 245.
Projected 40 Time: 4.71.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
Evan Rodriguez, TE, Temple
Height: 6-3. Weight: 250.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
George Bryan, TE, N.C. State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 265.
Projected 40 Time: 4.77.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Michael Egnew, TE, Missouri
Height: 6-6. Weight: 240.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Drake Dunsmore, TE, Northwestern
Height: 6-3. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Nick Provo, TE, Syracuse
Height: 6-4. Weight: 249.
Projected 40 Time: 4.71.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Philip Lutzenkirchen, TE, Auburn
Height: 6-5. Weight: 250.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Michael Williams, TE, Alabama
Height: 6-6. Weight: 270.
Projected 40 Time: 4.77.
Projected Round (2012): 4-6.
Josh Chichester, TE, Louisville
Height: 6-8. Weight: 240.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2012): 4-6.
Rhett Ellison, TE, USC
Height: 6-5. Weight: 245.
Projected 40 Time: 4.72.
Projected Round (2012): 5-6.
Ladarius Green, TE, Louisiana-Lafayette
Height: 6-6. Weight: 230.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2012): 5-6.
Jake Stoneburner, TE, Ohio State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 245.
Projected 40 Time: 4.71.
Projected Round (2012): 5-6.
Brandon Barden, TE, Vanderbilt
Height: 6-5. Weight: 250.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2012): 6-7.
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We need a true #1 WR first.
By the way Greg Oslen is no Vernon Davis and he should not be mentioned after this in the same sentence as Graham or Gronkowski.
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We need a true #1 WR first.
By the way Greg Oslen is no Vernon Davis and he should not be mentioned after this in the same sentence as Graham or Gronkowski.
But you get the idea, right Duck?
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We need offensive weapons I agree.
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I dont care if you had 10 more offensive weapons. Unless you fix that OLine Cuttler is going to be on his butt holding the ball. You cant get the ball to those weapons laying on the ground.
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I tend to agree but I noticed a lot recently with the better teams, especially NE last night a lot of times in less than 2 secs the QB has the ball out of his hands. A DL untouched can barely get there in 2 secs so most stiffs can hold a guy up for 2 secs. The key is that Welker and Branch and Hernandez and Gronkowski and Driver and Jennings and Nelson and Colston and guys like that can get open when our guys can't.
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Well guys,the motto holds....defense, at present anyhow, still wins championships. Some very very good offenses fell by the wayside this year,only one remains in the Pats and wouldn't surprise me one little bit if the Ravens eat em alive on D. With that in mind, we still do desperately need a couple very good wideouts, same on the offensive line...but after that? Hit DEFENSE with all they got! I'd rather see our team be fantastic on D than on O. We have a QB that can get us there....he needs protection and targets...but what I'm sure we'd all like to see is one helluva dominant D.....get us there whosit GM!!! get us there....
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I thought the Pats D played very good against Denver.
Houston with Schaub would be playing NE next week. That game had two good defenses.
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Well we ranked 6th against the rush and 28th against the pass.
So draw your own conclusions as to what part of the defense we need to beef up.
I'd take our 2 #3's and go cornerback ... however a T.E. in that round wouldnt hurt either.
N.E. is putting up unreal numbers with the two T.E. set.
They are putting Hernandez in at RB and he is getting yards.
You could almost say that N.E. has given up on the WR position outside of Walker.
Did the Packers suffer from having a week off?
Did we suffer last year from having the week off?
Did the NYG's come in fresh at Lambou with no time off?
Did the Packers come in fresh at Soldiers last year with no time off?
Judge it for yourselves.
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Yea I don't know about the top seed deal...isn't panning out very well lately...NFC side anyway....
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I tend to agree but I noticed a lot recently with the better teams, especially NE last night a lot of times in less than 2 secs the QB has the ball out of his hands. A DL untouched can barely get there in 2 secs so most stiffs can hold a guy up for 2 secs. The key is that Welker and Branch and Hernandez and Gronkowski and Driver and Jennings and Nelson and Colston and guys like that can get open when our guys can't.
Certainly a big part of throwing to guys quickly is the talent at the WR spot. But that assumes you work on that in practice and that its in your playbook. It wasn't in Martz'.
The other part is a QB that has the arm and the confidence to throw it into a small window. Cutler can do that but not quite as well as Rodgers, Brees and Brady.
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We need to draft the tallest DL we can with monkey arms lol. Can't get there, just fly the wingspans to disrupt the pass lanes
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Cutler can do that but not quite as well as Rodgers, Brees and Brady.
Cutler could do that just as well as those other guys if he had WRs of even NFL average size who could get open, and some protection.
He is much bigger (taller) than either Rodgers or Brees, and more physically gifted than all three of them.
The Bears are just about the only team in the NFL whose QB is bigger than all his WRs. It's no wonder he can't always get them the ball, and a miracle he did it as many times as he did this year.
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Peppers (6'7) and Izzy (6'6) are pretty damn tall, with long arms. Same deal with Wootton. But for whatever reason they're not knocking down a lot of passes at the line.
The other thing that would really help is if we'd get a lot more physical on WRs and TEs within that first 5 yards where contact is allowed. So many times we just give a WR or TE the cushion and he gets into the crease with no challenge whatsoever. That's just shooting fish in a barrel for any decent QB.
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Well we ranked 6th against the rush and 28th against the pass.
So draw your own conclusions as to what part of the defense we need to beef up.
I'd take our 2 #3's and go cornerback ... however a T.E. in that round wouldnt hurt either.
N.E. is putting up unreal numbers with the two T.E. set.
They are putting Hernandez in at RB and he is getting yards.
You could almost say that N.E. has given up on the WR position outside of Walker.
Did the Packers suffer from having a week off?
Did we suffer last year from having the week off?
Did the NYG's come in fresh at Lambou with no time off?
Did the Packers come in fresh at Soldiers last year with no time off?
Judge it for yourselves.
You make several very good points there, jj.
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News on our possible 1st round pick:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/17/report-michael-floyd-will-not-attend-senior-bowl/
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I like that...OUR first round pick...make it happen, Yapp... 8}
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Peppers (6'7) and Izzy (6'6) are pretty damn tall, with long arms. Same deal with Wootton. But for whatever reason they're not knocking down a lot of passes at the line.
Shoot its like the entire d-line had alligator arms last season. Peppers went from 9 PDs to 4 PDs. Idonijie had none last year (had 3 in 2010). And our DTs were almost entirely shut out of deflections - Okoye had the only 1. Melton, Paea, Toeaina, Adams - all goose eggs.
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I wonder if it's personnel, technique, coaching or all of the above.
- Maybe they're being coached to aggressively push into the O-Linemen vs. just standing there jumping up and down with their arms up.
- Maybe opposing O-Linemen have figured out a way to get into Peppers and Izzy's arms at the snap and keep them from getting them up.
- Maybe we need to run more games or stunts to get Peppers and Izzy coming up the middle where their wingspan can do the most good. Or maybe we need to disguise those games and stunts better.
- Maybe we need taller DTs (none of our DTs are taller than 6'3 and Adams is only 6'1).
Could be a lot of things or a combination, but the bottom line is when you look at how our DL played and then compare that to a truly dominating unit like the Giants, the Bears DL was not up to the task... at least in defending the pass game.
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Sweet... maybe he falls to us now.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/17/likely-first-round-pick-dre-kirkpatrick-arrested-for-****-possession/
This guy is the best CB in this draft and exactly what we need to counter CJ, Jennings, etc.
Even with this brain-dead move he will not fall below the mid-2nd round.
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LOL, if he falls to us, I grab him and LMAO the rest of the draft.
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But for whatever reason they're not knocking down a lot of passes at the line.
Maybe offenses have learned they seldom get flagged for holding Peppers and Idonije every play
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Maybe offenses have learned they seldom get flagged for holding Peppers and Idonije every play
That too.
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Maybe offenses have learned they seldom get flagged for holding Peppers and Idonije every play
That too.
LOL !!
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This one should make Yapper happy, if it came true:
http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html
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Until Ruskell is named GM mock drafts are worthless.
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if Ruskell is named the GM then the draft will be worthless >:(
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Until Ruskell is named GM mock drafts are worthless.
They are even more worthless after Ruskell is named. The mocks already are based upon what they fell the Bears need along with the best available talent at the position, not upon what Ruskell would do or what Ruskell believes the Bears need
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Ruskell is only going to be a fill in until Halas Hall hires a GM ... right ??
At least thats what I heard.
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He was the last candidate to interview for the job so it is possible he will become the GM. Plus tons of puff pieces on him lately from reporters who carry the McCaskeys water for them.
So it is very worrisome to those paying attention that he may be named the GM.
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He was the last candidate to interview for the job so it is possible he will become the GM. Plus tons of puff pieces on him lately from reporters who carry the McCaskeys water for them.
So it is very worrisome to those paying attention that he may be named the GM.
If it's Ruskell at least I have my beloved RAIDUHS to fall back on. ;)
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Ruskell is only going to be a fill in until Halas Hall hires a GM ... right ??
At least thats what I heard.
But Ruskell has interviewed as a candidate for the permanent GM job.
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If Ruskell gets the job I need to start becoming a Patriots fan. Just saying.
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boogie - How about the Packers? ;)
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boogie - How about the Packers? ;)
Yeah, I thought about that, but it just goes against everything inside of me. ;)
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i felt that way first time I votede Republican.
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Well anybody voting Democratic this time is voting for socialism. Not me.
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We should soon be getting a new GM at the last minute to head the draft.
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I know that some of us would really question a DE with our 1st round pick but based on the Senior Bowl reports, two may be worth watching.
Quentin Coples is drawing comparisons to Julius Peppers because of his size (6'6 280), superior athleticism, and coming from UNC. He has been continually winning matchups against virtually any O-Lineman he goes against this week.
Melvin Ingram is more of a Freeney / Dumervil type at 6'1 275 but also has been a star of the Senior Bowl practices.
Some scouts have Coples now firmly established as a Top 10 pick, with Ingram likely falling to somewhere in the 20s because of his lack of height and unusually short arms. However, the unexpected recent declaration of Brockers from LSU has thrown the DL board into somewhat of a tizzy because he is considered at least as athletic as Coples and is bigger (6'6, 305). If Brockers becomes the de facto #1 DE on teams draft boards, then having Coples fall out of the Top 10 doesn't seem so unlikely at all.
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I was watching some of the senior bowl practices and Coples is a beast. They mentioned he doesn't quite have the same burst as Peppers but face it Peppers is a once in a lifetime DE.
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I would consider taking Coples at 19 IF:
Mike Adams, Michael Floyd and Alshon Jeffery were already off the board
OR
We had already filled our LT and WR needs via FA.
Under those circumstances Coples would clearly be BPA at a position of need and value would say you pull the trigger.
Ingram scares me. He's one of those really undersized guys that somehow manages to get to the QB but at 6'1 (barely) and with short arms his margin for error in the NFL will be next to nothing. Much like Tommie Harris, if he loses ANY speed at all (via injury, weight gain or age), he's toast. He could either be a Dwight Freeney or a John Thierry and we can't afford another John Thierry with all the other needs we have. He is high risk / high-reward type of guy and if I'm the Bears new GM I don't think I'm comfortable having him be the first pick of my Bears career unless I could swing a tradedown and pick him up closer to the bottom of the round.
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we need OL and WR but if a top DE or CB falls to us, we have to take value over need.
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Coples at DE or Kirkpatrick at CB, definitely at 19. Top 10 talent falling that far, I'm all over that value.
Any other DE or CB at 19, I'm not so sure of. Big drop-offs after the top couple of players at both those positions.
Not to mention, what happens if you draft a guy for Lovie's Tampa-2 and next year we go in a whole nother direction? If the guy isn't a fit for the next scheme, we're wasted a high draft pick for 1 year of play.
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Coples at DE or Kirkpatrick at CB, definitely at 19. Top 10 talent falling that far, I'm all over that value.
Any other DE or CB at 19, I'm not so sure of. Big drop-offs after the top couple of players at both those positions.
Not to mention, what happens if you draft a guy for Lovie's Tampa-2 and next year we go in a whole nother direction? If the guy isn't a fit for the next scheme, we're wasted a high draft pick for 1 year of play.
Hmmmmm ... what if THIS YEAR we go in a whole 'nother direction?
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Not to mention, what happens if you draft a guy for Lovie's Tampa-2 and next year we go in a whole nother direction? If the guy isn't a fit for the next scheme, we're wasted a high draft pick for 1 year of play.
They could always promote Marinelli. ???
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They could always promote Marinelli. ???
Heh !
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Did anyone here watch the Senior Bowl last weekend? I didn't, but if anyone saw some guys that could help us, feel free to post your impressions.
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Here's a summary from the Senior Bowl on one guy who may be of interest to us:
There were rumors heading into the Senior Bowl that some teams viewed Mike Adams (OT, Ohio State) as a top-15 prospect. He certainly looked the part on Saturday afternoon.
Adams was flat-out dominant - and not just against any ordinary defensive lineman. He shut Quinton Coples and Courtney Upshaw down, time after time. Upshaw did manage a sack against Adams on one occasion in the third quarter, but that was because Russell Wilson held on to the football too long on that play. Adams actually did a good job of pushing the Alabama end around; if Wilson would have stepped up in the pocket, Upshaw wouldn't have touched him.
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You think Adams lasts till #19? Uh, NO Does the new GM know how to trade up about 4-5 spots?
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The same Website that talked up Adams at the Senior Bowl, had the Bears taking him at 19. So who knows?
I think we need to hope that there's a run on a position or two that we don't need ahead of us, so that some of the OTs and WRs drop down. For example if some team takes Tannehill in the Top 15 and another RB besides Richardson goes high and some team takes the small WR from Baylor and a LB sneaks into the mix, those all can only help the Bears.
Our big problem with regard to OL is that the Chargers draft one spot ahead of us and they have some major rebuilding to do on their OL so I would be shocked if they didn't take an OT or OG at 18, and that could be the one we were targeting.
As far as DE, that Coples kid really drew mixed reviews at the Senior Bowl. Some guys loved his athleticism, his 6'6 280 frame and obvious playmaking ability while others thought he had some "motor" issues and seemed to be playing up or down to his level of competition. If enough of those scouts have concerns then maybe Coples falls to 19 but with those kinds of questions do we want to take the chance on him either?
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So why not trade up two spots just ahead of the Chargers? Would a 4th or 5th be enough to move up 2 spots?
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Perhaps, but it's much too early to consider something like that...
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One guy who could be a tough call if he fell to 19 is the Stanford OG, David DeCastro.
Yes, he is a G, who you usually don't draft that high and who we have several decent ones of already. He is also the consensus best interior OL in the entire draft, one of the highest rated players at any position (8.5 grade which is almost unheard of), and more than one scout has identified him as being not just an NFL-ready starer from Day One, but a Pro Bowler. He has been compared favorably to Steve Hutchinson coming out and we all know how good he turned out to be.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=42578
http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012ddecastro.php
He's the guy I could very easily see the Chargers taking right ahead of us, unless they take Mike Adams instead.
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What's the deal with Marcus McNeil at LT for the Chargers? Was he hurt or benched?
Chargers had a pretty potent offense - I would think defense would be their top priority.
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Marcus McNeill sustained some sort of serious neck injury and then re-aggravated it against the Raiders late in the season. IIRC he ended the season on IR and there are questions whether he'll ever play again.
The Chargers LG Kris Dielman also has serious health issues (concussion related) that may also end his career, and their C is getting old and has some health issues of his own. Considering Phillip Rivers is not the most mobile of QBs I think they will be drafting OL early and often this year.
Another team drafting not too far ahead of us, who could also use some OL help is the Cowboys. So I would not be surprised at all to see a run on some good O-Lineman right before our pick. That 15-18 range is a sweet spot for starting caliber (if not franchise) OTs as well as truly exceptional interior OL of which guys like DeCastro and Konz from Wisconsin would qualify.
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AJ Smith is the best at finding OL after the first round.
How well did the Bears do against them with 3 starters out? IIRC Rivers had a clean uniform.
I expect Smith to go defense first round then OL later.
It's great that Mike Adams did so well at the Senior bowl.
His performance may move him up and a more talented guy like Martin of Stanford or Reiff of Iowa back to us.
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How well did the Bears do against them with 3 starters out? IIRC Rivers had a clean uniform.
True but in the game before that (against the Raiders, who unlike the Bears have more than one good player on their DL), Rivers was sacked like 8 times or something. McNeill's replacement gave up 4 sacks alone IIRC.
The Bears D makes a lot of offenses look better than they really are.
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Another team drafting not too far ahead of us, who could also use some OL help is the Cowboys. So I would not be surprised at all to see a run on some good O-Lineman right before our pick. That 15-18 range is a sweet spot for starting caliber (if not franchise) OTs as well as truly exceptional interior OL of which guys like DeCastro and Konz from Wisconsin would qualify.
True, but the Cowboys problems are more on the interior. They drafted Tyron Smith out of USC and he played well at RT, so well that they are projecting to move him to LT and swap NIU grad Doug Free to the right side.
If they draft O-line in round 1 it will be guard, but their real problem spots are on defense, CB and rush OLB opposite D'Marcus Ware.
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That DeCastro guy from Stanford is someone I would think the Cowboys would grab with both hands if they could get him. Top 15 is very high for an interior OL but multiple scouts are touting this guy as a once-in-a-decade talent at OG,
As for Melvin Ingram, he must have turned some heads at the Senior Bowl. All the mock drafts up till now had him down in the Bears range (18-22 or even a little lower), but now today I saw an updated mock that has him going to the Bills at 10.
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We've seen it many times in the past....rush DEs climb the draft ladder as the draft approaches.
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We've seen it many times in the past....rush DEs climb the draft ladder as the draft approaches.
That's OK... it might push a stud WR or even a potential starting LT down to us if that happens.
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This guy just has stud written all over him:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/01/notre-dames-floyd-recovering-from-rib-injury/
To be honest I can't see why he's ranked only the 3rd or even 4th best WR prospect in some mocks. He's 2 1/2 inches taller than Blackmon and if he's slower than Blackmon it's not by more than a step. Even more important especially for the Bears, he has a ton of experience playing outdoors, in northern climates when it's cold, windy and wet.
Yeah he's had some incidents with the bottle... but if Lovie is supposed to be such a respected leader and "players coach" then he can straighten him out, right?
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FREE AGENTS 2012
QB
1. Drew Brees (UFA) – Saints
2. Alex Smith (UFA) – 49ers
3. Matt Flynn (UFA) – Packers
4. Kyle Orton (UFA) – Chiefs
5. Chad Henne (UFA) – Dolphins
6. Donovan McNabb (UFA)
7. David Garrard (UFA)
8. Jason Campbell (UFA) – Raiders
9. Rex Grossman (UFA) – Redskins
10. Brian Hoyer (RFA) – Patriots
RB
1. Ray Rice (UFA) – Ravens
2. Matt Forte (UFA) – Bears
3. Arian Foster (RFA) – Texans
4. Michael Bush (UFA) – Raiders
5. Marshawn Lynch (UFA) – Seahawks
6. Peyton Hillis (UFA) – Browns
7. Cedric Benson (UFA) – Bengals
8. BenJavus Green-Ellis (UFA) – Patriots
9. Ryan Grant (UFA) – Packers
10. Kahlil Bell (RFA) – Bears
FB
1. Mike Tolbert (UFA) – Chargers
2. Jason Snelling (UFA) – Falcons
3. Le’Ron McClain (UFA) – Chiefs
4. Ahmard Hall (UFA) – Titans
5. Spencer Larsen (UFA) – Broncos
WR
1. Wes Welker (UFA) – Patriots
2. Vincent Jackson (UFA) – Chargers
3. Marques Colston (UFA) – Saints
4. Dwayne Bowe (UFA) – Chiefs
5. Reggie Wayne (UFA) – Colts
6. DeSean Jackson (UFA) – Eagles
7. Mike Wallace (RFA) – Steelers
8. Stevie Johnson (UFA) – Bills
9. Brandon Lloyd (UFA) – Rams
10. Pierre Garcon (UFA) – Colts
TE
1. Jermichael Finley (UFA) – Packers
2. Fred Davis (UFA) – Redskins
3. Visanthe Shiancoe (UFA) – Vikings
4. John Carlson (UFA) – Seahawks
5. Jeremy Shockey (UFA) – Panthers
6. Scott Chandler (UFA) – Bills
7. Jacob Tamme (UFA) – Colts
8. Joel Dreessen (UFA) – Texans
9. Bo Scaife (UFA) – Bengals
10. Martellus Bennett (UFA) – Cowboys
OL
1. G – Carl Nicks (UFA) – Saints
2. C – Scott Wells (UFA) – Packers
3. T – Kareem McKenzie (UFA) – Giants
4. C – Nick Hardwick (UFA) – Chargers
5. C – Chris Myers (UFA) – Texans
6. G – Ben Grubbs (UFA) – Ravens
7. T – Jeff Backus (UFA) – Lions
8. G – Jake Scott (UFA) – Titans
9. T – Sean Locklear (UFA) – Redskins
10. T – Marc Colombo (UFA) – Dolphins
DE
1. Mario Williams (UFA) – Texans
2. Cliff Avril (UFA) – Lions
3. John Abraham (UFA) – Falcons
4. Robert Mathis (UFA) – Colts
5. Calais Campbell (UFA) – Cardinals
6. Israel Idonije (UFA) – Bears
7. Adam Carriker (UFA) – Redskins
8. Andre Carter (UFA) – Patriots
9. Red Bryant (UFA) – Seahawks
10. Juqua Parker (UFA) – Eagles
DT
1. Paul Soliai (UFA) – Dolphins
2. Aubrayo Franklin (UFA) – Saints
3. Shaun Rogers (UFA) – Saints
4. Jason Jones (UFA) – Titans
5. Brodrick Bunkley (UFA) – Broncos
6. Sione Pouha (UFA) – Jets
7. Antonio Garay (UFA) – Chargers
9. Rocky Bernard (UFA) – Giants
10. Derek Landri (UFA) – Eagles
ILB
1. Stephen Tulloch (UFA) – Lions
2. Curtis Lofton (UFA) – Falcons
3. D’Qwell Jackson (UFA) – Browns
4. David Hawthorne (UFA) – Seahawks
5. London Fletcher (UFA) – Redskins
6. Barrett Ruud (UFA) – Titans
7. E.J. Henderson (UFA) – Vikings
8. Dan Connor (UFA) – Panthers
9. Kirk Morrison (UFA) – Bills
10. Joe Mays (UFA) – Broncos
OLB
1. Anthony Spencer (UFA) – Cowboys
2. Jarret Johnson (UFA) – Ravens
3. Ahmad Brooks (UFA) – 49ers
4. Leroy Hill (UFA) – Seahawks
5. Bryan Thomas (UFA) – Jets
6. DeAndre Levy (UFA) – Lions
7. Manny Lawson (UFA) – Bengals
8. Jo-Lonn Dunbar (UFA) – Saints
9. Geno Hayes (UFA) – Buccaneers
10. Aaron Maybin (RFA) – Jets
S
1. Michael Griffin (UFA) – Titans
2. LaRon Landry (UFA) – Redskins
3. Dashon Goldson (UFA) – 49ers
4. Abram Elam (UFA) – Cowboys
5. Jim Leonhard (UFA) – Jets
6. Chris Hope (UFA) – Titans
7. Tom Zbikowski (UFA) – Ravens
8. Tyvon Branch (UFA) – Raiders
9. Thomas DeCoud (UFA) – Falcons
10. Brodney Pool (UFA) – Jets
CB
1. Brent Grimes (UFA) – Falcons
2. Cortland Finnegan (UFA) – Titans
3. Carlos Rogers (UFA) – 49ers
4. Brandon Carr (UFA) – Chiefs
5. Lardarius Webb (RFA) – Ravens
6. Tracy Porter (UFA) – Saints
7. Terrell Thomas (UFA) – Giants
8. Rashean Mathis (UFA) – Jaguars
9. Aaron Ross (UFA) – Giants
10. Eric Wright (UFA) – Lions
K
1. Jay Feely (UFA) – Cardinals
2. Neil Rackers (UFA) – Texans
3. Phil Dawson (UFA) – Browns
4. Rian Lindell (UFA) – Bills
5. Josh Scobee (UFA) – Jaguars
6. Nick Folk (UFA) – Jets
7. Matt Prater (UFA) – Broncos
8. John Kasay (UFA) – Saints
9. Connor Barth (UFA) – Buccaneers
10. Steve Hauschka (RFA) – Seahawks
P
1. Mat McBriar (UFA) – Cowboys
2. Donnie Jones (UFA) – Rams
3. Daniel Sepulveda (UFA) – Cardinals
4. Steve Weatherford (UFA) – Giants
5. Matt Turk (UFA) – Texans
6. Nick Harris (UFA) – Jaguars
7. Ben Graham (UFA) – Lions
8. Brad Maynard (UFA) – Browns
9. Jeremy Kapinos (UFA) – Steelers
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Wonder if Grossman would be interested in backing up Cut, lol....nah I'm sure he's looking at starter spots. But.... he DID get us to the Super Bowl, folks...
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I've seen a couple writers now talking about us possibly signing the Redskins TE (Fred Davis) in FA.
Not sure he'd give us any more than Kellen Davis would in the right offense, though.
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maybe Fred would be the #2 TE.
Honestly if we can't get a #1 WR, a playmaker TE would help opposite Kellen Davis.
NE has shown how a strong TE tandem can destroy a defense.
I'd love to see us get Finley to hurt the pack and help us.
I doubt we get him as he would command top $$$.
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IMO, not getting a true #1 WR and relying on a TE to fill that role is simply not an option.
We tried that approach with Greg Olsen and it was a disaster.
Sure we'd all love to have a Gronkowski or Hernandez or Jimme Graham on the Bears, but until we have a true #1 WR that's putting the cart ahead of the horse.
I say we focus on WR and OL this year, see what Kellen Davis can do in a more relevant offensive scheme, and if we're still having problems at TE after this coming season then that position goes to the top of the priority list for 2013. We've just got too many other holes this offseason requiring more urgent attention.
The other thing no one is talking about (literally) is where Knox will fit into the new offense... or if he'll be back at all. If he can't come back and Tice decides to keep Hester as a returner only, we've suddenly got a pretty big void in terms of a field stretcher. So the worst case scenario is, we not only have to come up with a big #1 WR, but also a speed burner to replace Knox.
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I'm starting to see some mocks that have us taking the C from Wisconsin (Konz) in Round 1.
He's a good player... a smart, big-bodied guy (6'5, 315) with enough power to handle bigger DTs one-on-one (as opposed to Kreutz who almost constantly required help from an OG in order to move anyone). Tice has connections with the Wisconsin program and Garza can't play forever. Drafting Konz would allow Garza to move back to one of the OG spots and then have Louis, Spencer and Chris Williams fight it out for the other starting G spot.
OTOH if Tice isn't interested in moving Garza back to OG (and the other OL shuffling that would trigger), then it makes no sense for us to pick Konz and have him sit on the bench his rookie season. The only team I can see possibly taking Konz before us is the Chargers at 18. So if he's still there and we pass on him we'd have to assume Tice is happy with Garza at C and there's someone else with a better value-to-need delta.
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http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html
Here we take Jeffery in the first, some CB in the second, and a OG and LB in the third.
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That 3rd round stinks. The OG from Colorado is a tweener... too tall (6'8 ) to play OG and too skinny (295) to play OT. And that LB from Nebraska is basically a pumped-up safety... probably a career special teamer in the NFL. He reminds me of Okwo and we all know how that pick turned out.
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Here's some good reading. Pretty fairly represented. It really shows vs our Divisional competition, how depleted we are thanks to Angies horrid drafting record.... All NFC North team
http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/allnfc-north-team-2n3jpr8-136491663.html (http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/allnfc-north-team-2n3jpr8-136491663.html) On Offense
http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/defense01-2n3jpr9-136491648.html (http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/defense01-2n3jpr9-136491648.html) On Defense
http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/special01-2n3jprf-136491713.html (http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/special01-2n3jprf-136491713.html) Special Teams
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And that 3 round draft didnt address LOT. Speaking of which, how good is that LOT from Buffalo, Demetrius Bell, he's UFA. But shoring up that LOT spot before the draft and getting Alshon Jeffery at #19 could solve two big needs.
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There's two guys -- both CBs -- that I could see Emery possibly drafting at 19 that would probably get him burned in effigy. One is Dennard from Nebraska (who got abused in Nebraska's bowl game and then followed that up with a terrible week at the Senior Bowl), and the other is Janoris Jenkins (the short, skinny kid from North Alabama who has padded his stats against backwater competition and has major character red flags).
Honestly, if Emery spends our 1st rounder on any DB except Dre Kirkpatrick he's probably gonna have a lot of explaining to do. But those two CBs in particular would really get things off on the wrong foot as far as I'm concerned. CB is certainly worth a look in this draft, but not till at least the 2nd round IMO and only then if more pressing needs have already been addressed.
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LEFT TACKLES-Projected PICK
Ranked in order of how they should be picked.
i.e.: Alex Hoffman (373) should be off the boards and be a F.A., never drafted.
1 (2) USC
Matt Kalil
Jr 6'6" 295
2 (7) Iowa
Riley Reiff
Jr 6'6" 300
3 (18) Ohio State
Mike Adams
Sr 6'6" 320
4 (20) Stanford
Jonathan Martin
Jr 6'6" 305
5 (48) Florida State
Zebrie Sanders
Sr 6'5" 307
6 (61) Auburn
Brandon Mosley
Sr 6'5" 305
7 (62) Oklahoma State
Levy Adcock
Sr 6'5" 322
8 (62) Florida State
Andrew Datko
Sr 6'6" 321
9 (98) Boise State
Nate Potter
Sr 6'6" 298
10 (110) UAB
Matt McCants
Sr 6'6" 295
11 (111) Utah
Tony Bergstrom
Sr 6'5" 315
12 (123) Clemson
Landon Walker
Sr 6'5" 302
13 (124) California
Mitchell Schwartz
Sr 6'5" 324
14 (128) South Dakota
Tom Compton
Sr 6'6" 312
15 (145) Illinois
Jeff Allen
Sr 6'5" 315
16 (172) Iowa
Markus Zucevics
Sr 6'5" 294
17 (180) BYU
Matt Reynolds
Sr 6'4" 305
18 (181) Mississippi State
James Carmon
Sr 6'7" 330
19 (222) Columbia
Jeff Adams
Sr 6'6" 305
20 (223) Troy
James Brown
Sr 6'4" 312
21 (248) Mississippi
Bradley Sowell
Sr 6'7" 315
22 (297) Oklahoma
Donald Stephenson
Sr 6'5" 307
23 (373) Cincinnati
Alex Hoffman
Sr 6'6" 296
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So if I am reading JJ's post correctly there are 4 LT's with a first round grade that would be worth our pick in the first round? If that is the case I would think at least one of them will fall to us.
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One would surely hope so
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Kalil and Reiff will certainly gone by 19 and likely Martin as well. Adams and Sanders are probably reaches at 19 though Adams is a bit safer pick than Sanders IMO.
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Dammit...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/06/marijuana-charges-dismissed-against-dre-kirkpatrick/
He's probably back up to a Top 15 pick now again.
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So wouldnt that push Adams or Floyd down to us ? If somebody moves up somebody has to move down
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Here is a very interesting 2012 Draft scenario that nets us Blackmon, Donta Hightower, Brandon Marshall adn Shaun Prater (CB) in the first 4 rounds at the expense of Lance Briggs and the 2nd round pick from 2013.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1057775-chicago-bears-mock-draft-how-bears-can-acquire-dream-targets
If you wanted us to improve our OL with the draft you won't like this scenario at all, but it's interesting reading anyway.
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I just posted my response in the 2012 thread. Its a joke
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But if Cutler had Marshall, Blackmon and Forte at the skill positions, that would be some weapons. Of course they do zero good if he is on his back.
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OTOH, if Cutler is gonna be doing a lot of rollouts, bootlegs and audibles anyway, maybe a less-than-All Pro OL can still get it done. Basically, design a lot of the passing plays with a fail-safe so that if protection fails, Cutler can get out of the pocket and still find a safety valve to avoid the sack (or worse, INT).
No question that Angelo failed miserably at providing good players for the OL... but Martz' system all but guaranteed they'd fail anyway. Cutler has certainly gotten plenty of practice throwing on the run the last 3 years so might as well make it a part of the offense and find some WRs that can keep up with it.
Tice certainly knows by now whether he can trust the O-Linemen we've got to work his system... if he thinks what we've got is good enough then maybe Emery will put OL on the back burner, go all-in at WR and defense, and we'll just have to hope Tice's judgment is sound.
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Quick slants, draw plays, maybe putting J-Cut in the shotgun, those are things that should be incorporated in the offense. Mix up the plays. Something the Guru didn't want to do.
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Yup, and the biggest thing of all... prevention. In other words, allowing audibles and checkdowns so that Cutler can bail out of a bad play before it even happens.
I read someplace that the last year Cutler and Bates were together in Denver, they averaged 33 points a game. We're defnitely gonna have to upgrade our personnel to even dream about that kind of production, but if that comes to pass we should be able to win a lot of games... even with a D that's not what it used to be.
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When was the last time the Bears ran a flea flicker play?
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When was the last time the Bears ran a flea flicker play?
Probably the last time we had on OL that could hold their blocks for 5 seconds cause that's about how long a flea flicker takes to develop.
I'm hoping to see us just play-action pass teams to death this season. With the success we had rushing the ball last year we should have been eating defenses alive with play action but that just wasn't part of Martz' M.O.
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How about this for Gas City in the Tribune Mock?
19. Chicago Bears
Needs: OT, TE, WR, OG
So, how does that Greg Olsen trade look now? The Bears had no legit threat in the seams, and despite what almost every receiver might say, a tight end is a quarterback’s best friend. Chicago should continue to improve their offensive line, as Jay Cutler was left to slaughter much of the season. But they did improve as the season went on, which could give the Bears new GM — whomever that might be —enough confidence to look at a receiver or tight end. Dwayne Allen isn't a sexy pick, but in my opinion he is the best option for the Bears in the first round. He is big, has soft hands, can get off the line, and can be flexed out in certain formations. Like his comparable talent Aaron Hernandez, he can run multiple routes from a variety of positions on the field, and Cutler proved that as good as his, he needs more weapons around him.
Pick: Dwayne Allen, TE, Clemson
Need to fire the GM if that comes to pass
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I'm not going to cry over losing Olsen. He was ok but he didn't fight for the ball in the end zone and went down way to easily on first contact. He is nowhere near the upper echelon of tight ends in the league now. Would he be nice to have around? Sure, but lets not get too carried away over losing him.
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Pick: Dwayne Allen, TE, Clemson
Need to fire the GM if that comes to pass
Agreed. There is no TE in this draft worth a 1st round pick, much less a Top 20 like we've got.
Not to mention TE is no more than 5th highest on our needs list. In fact if we want to pass on TE altogether this year and see what Kellen Davis can do in a legitimate offense, I'm all for it.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1063963-2012-nfl-mock-draft-will-chicago-bears-take-wr-or-ot-in-first-round
2012 NFL Mock Draft: Will Chicago Bears Take WR or OT in First Round?
By
Zach Kruse
(Featured Columnist) on February 13, 2012
A general consensus is beginning to building around what the Chicago Bears will do with their first round pick in the 2012 NFL draft, and the targeted positions are blatantly obvious: Offensive tackle and wide receiver.
It's fairly easy to formulate reasons why both are first-round needs this April.
The Bears haven't had a true No. 1 receiver since the days of Marty Booker and Marcus Robinson, and in this day of NFL passing offenses, having a top level receiver is almost a requirement.
2011 free agent pickup Roy Williams was mostly a bust, catching 37 passes for 507 yards and two touchdowns in 15 games. Williams hasn't had a 1,000-yard season since 2006 with the Detroit Lions, and no one is expecting him to change that fact in coming seasons. He's a free agent again this offseason.
Also, Johhny Knox is returning from a terrible back injury and can't be counted on moving forward.
But while receiver is an obvious need, so is offensive tackle.
The Bears took Wisconsin's Gabe Carimi in the first round of the 2011 draft, and he should be considered a starter at right tackle for the foreseeable future. Left tackle is far from settled, however.
Former seventh-round pick J'Marcus Webb has been the starter there for two seasons(wrong). The results have been mixed. According to Pro Football Focus, Webb allowed 12 sacks and committed 14 penalties in 2011—numbers that rank him near the bottom of offensive tackles. His overall grade put him at No. 67 out of 76 eligible offensive tackles last season.
The Bears also promoted Mike Tice to offensive coordinator, so there may be a heightened value on building the offensive line early in the draft.
Either way, you'd be hard pressed to say the Bears could go wrong with taking an offensive tackle or receiver at No. 19 overall. There will be value options at both, too.
Players such as Michael Floyd, Kendall Wright and Mohamed Sanu should all be available at receiver, and Mike Adams and Cordy Glenn could be options at offensive tackle.
In our latest mock draft, we switched the Bears from Floyd to Adams, as Ohio State's monster tackle is a harder player to find than an impact receiver. Simply put, the amount of high caliber receivers that could be available in the second round far outweigh what will be there at offensive tackle.
2012 NFL Mock Draft
1. Indianapolis Colts – Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
2. Washington Redskins – Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor (Via trade with St. Louis Rams)
3. Minnesota Vikings – Matt Kalil, OT, USC
4. Cleveland Browns – Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State
6. St. Louis Rams – Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford (Via trade with Washington Redskins)
7. Jacksonville Jaguars – Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina
8. Carolina Panthers – Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina
9. Miami Dolphins – Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa
10. Buffalo Bills – Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama
11. Kansas City Chiefs – Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
12. Seattle Seahawks – Michael Brockers, DT, LSU
13. Arizona Cardinals – Melvin Ingram, DE/OLB, South Carolina
14. Dallas Cowboys – Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
15. Philadelphia Eagles – Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
16. New York Jets – Nick Perry, OLB, USC
17. Cincinnati Bengals – Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama
18. San Diego Chargers – David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
19. Chicago Bears – Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State
20. Tennessee Titans – Zach Brown, OLB, UNC
21. Cincinnati Bengals – Lamar Miller, RB, Miami
22. Cleveland Browns – Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
23. Detroit Lions – Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska
24. Pittsburgh Steelers – Cordy Glenn, OL, Georgia
25. Denver Broncos – Devon Still, DL, Penn State
26. Houston Texans – Dontari Poe, NT, Memphis
27. New England Patriots – Mark Barron, S, Alabama
28. Green Bay Packers – Whitney Mercilus, DE/OLB, Illinois
29. Baltimore Ravens – Vontaze Burfict, LB, Arizona State
30. San Francisco 49ers – Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers
31. New England Patriots – Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin
32. New York Giants – Dont'a Hightower, LB, Alabama
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That would be tough seeing us pass up Michael Floyd if he were still available. He seems like a WR that's tailor made for the kind of offense I assume Tice will be installing.
The knock on Mike Adams is that he's inconsistent. He has an NFL LT frame and skills but hasn't always put it together on the field. Think J'Marcus Webb on a Big 10 scale. He did do pretty well at the Senior Bowl though going against some of the best DL prospects in the country. But if he could improve our LT situation from Day One he'd be worth it.
Here's a scouting report on Adams from a guy that actually has him ranked as the 2nd best OT prospect in the class (although a lot of others have him ranked 3rd or 4th best).
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=35913
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Maybe with Tice working with him he can improve technique and be more consistant. But like the article said, there will be several WRs available in the 2nd round whereas there wont be quality LOTs by the 2nd round unless you are Jerry Angelo.
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Angelo would stonewall getting a LOT and saying the Bears have a fine LT in Webb. Something needs to be done to protect your franchise QB. Its way past time for action.
And remember, "Football is a game won at the line of scrimage"
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I have a feeling Emery would have to be extremely confident that Mike Adams (or any 1st round OT) could come in and start from Day One before he pulls the trigger at 19.
A huge reason our roster is such a mess today is cause Angelo spent premium draft picks on "projects" instead of guys that could come in and play right away. If Emery is smart he'll break that trend right from the get-go. Might be a WR, might be a LT, might be a DE but whoever that #1 pick is needs to come in and make us a noticeably better team right away.
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Walter Football reporting Alshon Jeffery's draft stock is on the decline...
The rumors that Jeffery is overweight have persisted into the offseason even as the early entry prepares for the NFL Scouting Combine. Joe Everett of RookieDraft.com reported that Jeffery was pushing 250 pounds and 40-yard dash time of 4.88 seconds. The Sporting News, meanwhile, reported recently that most teams rate the South Carolina wideout as a late first- or second-round pick.
Jeffery is coming off a junior season when he caught 49 receptions for 762 yards for eight touchdowns. The 6-foot-4, 230-pounder looked like he had some extra and unnecessary weight this season. Being overweight will immediately raise concerns surrounding his work ethic.
In speaking with one league source, the fact that Jeffery had only one 100-yard receiving game in 2011 is enough of a legitimate red flag, even with terrible quarterback play and double teams. He had a bad quarterback in 2010, but still totaled 88 receptions for 1,517 yards and nine touchdowns. It is going to be critical for his draft stock to show up in shape and have a quality 40 time at the combine. If Jeffery is indeed extremely overweight and runs slow, that could send his stock plummeting out of the first day of the 2012 NFL Draft.
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Interesting, the mock above has Jeffery going at number 7, which I thought was kind of high. Who knows, this could be a smoke screen to get him to slide to some team.
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I guarantee if Alshon Jeffery falls into the 2nd round some team in the Top 5 of that round will grab him and be jumping for joy. I can just see the Vikings getting him and then we have to deal with him twice a year as well as Megatron.
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Unless he turns out to be another Mike Williams. Wasnt motivation his problem, along with gaining weight? Who knows.
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Thing is we need BOTH LT and Floyd. Would be excruciating passing Floyd up but what to do? We desperately need linemen!!
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We'll probably have a pretty good idea of Emery's draft inclinations based on what positions he pursues (and doesn't) in FA.
Right now I'm leaning toward going heavy FA for our WR needs and drafting a LT in the 1st round cause the FA crop of WRs is looking a lot more promising than the FA LTs. OTOH if we don't get an LT in FA and then all the legitimate LTs in the draft go off the board before we pick (which is very possible with Mike Adams' stock on the rise and several OL-challenged teams drafting right ahead of us), we're screwed.
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Right now I'm leaning toward going heavy FA for our WR needs and drafting a LT in the 1st round cause the FA crop of WRs is looking a lot more promising than the FA LTs. OTOH if we don't get an LT in FA and then all the legitimate LTs in the draft go off the board before we pick (which is very possible with Mike Adams' stock on the rise and several OL-challenged teams drafting right ahead of us), we're screwed.
If we do go WR in FA, and miss out on a LT, that would be just our luck.
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Yeah... in some respects I really wish the draft happened before FA opened up, not afterward.
That way we could use FA to fill in the gaps we weren't able to address in the draft because of how the teams ahead of us picked. Feels like that would give us a lot more control of our destiny.
As it is, we have to decide which FAs are worth throwing huge dollars at, then hope those FAs pick us over any other team, and then hope that other teams don't keep us from filling the remaining holes by drafting the guys we need.
I guess the "best worst case" scenario is, we're not able to upgrade LT via either FA or draft but all the talk about our weakness at that position motivates J'Marcus Webb to elevate his play to at least a competent level. I'd really rather not bank on that scenario though... the mojo in Cutler's rabbit's foot is about all used up (2 season ending injuries the last 2 years), and I'd really hate for the next blindside hit he takes to be his last.
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Go BPA, always.
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Go BPA, always.
Maybe... but if our 1st round pick were to go to a LB, TE, RB or QB I know a lot of people on this board would NOT be pleased.
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Nor should we be.
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A super player at any positon helps the team while an adequate player drafted as a "reach" doesn't help much.
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A super player at any positon helps the team while an adequate player drafted as a "reach" doesn't help much.
Only if that "super player" is good enough to replace a current starter from Day One and play better than the incumbent was playing.
Drafting a QB or RB in Round 1 this year only to sit behind Cutler or Forte for the next 2-3 years would be a really dumb thing to do.
Not to mention that the play at WR and LT (and to a lesser degree CB) has been so poor for the Bears that even an "adequate" rookie would consititute an upgrade.
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Agreed. We need the BPA at a position of need.
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We need the BPA at a position of need.
THAT I can agree with.
Where that whole philosophy could get really sticky for us this year is on the interior line. David DeCastro is the consensus best OG available and is being called the best OG coming out since Steve Hutchinson. Peter Konz, the C from Wisconsin, is also being touted as a solid 1st round prospect though in his case I'm not sure if it's cause he's really that good or that the rest of the C class is weak. We're relatively set at C and G but if both of those guys are available... who are the #1 ranked guys at their respective positions... then what do you do?
DE is looking to be more and more of a non-factor for us in the 1st round as it appears the two studs -- Coples and Melvin Ingram -- will both be gone by 19 and none of the other DEs is worth a pick that high.
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I think you have to have tiers in drafting the BPA.
I don't think you ever pass on a franchise player.
I know we have Forte and Cutler but if we have the chance to get Luck or an AP RB at our slot, you have to take them and let the rest sort it out.
I know this isn't all the positions and they might not be exactly right but you get the point...
1st tier needs are LT,WR,
2nd tier needs are CB,DE,S
3rd tier are LB (getting old), S, TE, OG
4th tier are FB,RB,QB,P,K
Even though we really need help at LT and WR as well as CB and DE.
If there is a potential pro-bowler at one one of the 3rd tier needs and the 1st and 2nd tier guys available are huge reaches I think you go with the pro-bowler.
If the WR avail is another Earl Bennet and that OG is the next coming of Steve Hutchinson or maybe that LB Zack Brown from UNC is the next Zack Thomas, you take OG and the LB.
At 19 if Andrew Luck happens to fall, you take him even with Cutler and that is a nice problem to have.
I expect we'll have the choice of about the 3rd WR,LT,DE and CB at 19 but possibly the 1st OG and C.
If you aren't really in love with anyone available try to trade down.
If we think the interior OL guys are going to be good but not great then I would go with the more skill position guys.
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Mike Mayock weighs in on Luck vs. RGIII
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/15/mayock-luck-is-great-but-not-a-once-in-a-lifetime/
My take? If he survives the rebuilding process in Indy, Luck should do very well. And it's quite likely he will have the longer career of the two since his game is not predicated as heavily on sheer athleticism as RGIII. But if I had to pick one guy of the two who I would NOT want to face in my division twice a year it would be RGIII. That dude's got skills that are downright scary.
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Aaron Rodgers was not playing a position of need. Look long range when you draft.
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I don't follw the college draft really close as far as scouting the players, but I enjoy reading everyone else's research - so thanks for that. If DeCastro is the second coming of Steve Hutchinson, I believe he will be gone well before we pick. Those picks seem to occur in the early teens.
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Here's a tricky one... I highly doubt this happens, but what if we're on the clock at 19 and Trent Richardson is still there?
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Interesting, because if you draft him you let Forte walk saving yourself 8 Mill, but then it doesnt address your two biggest needs at WR and LOT. OTOH you have 8 Mill to throw at a LOT and a WR providing you find one who you believe will fit.
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I was thinking more of the scenario where we've already signed Forte. In that case Richardson would be the textbook example of a "luxury pick" but there's no denying the kid is a serious baller. One scouting report says he's the best RB prospect to come out since Adrian Peterson.
Like I said, I can't imagine 18 teams in front of us all passing Richardson up, but this has become such a passing league that I suppose it could happen. The first RB taken last year was Mark Ingram and he didn't go till 28.
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Well we supposedly are a team that gets off the bus running
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The Bears drafting Trent Richardson -- with Matt Forte already in the fold and guys like Mike Adams and Michael Floyd still on the board -- would pretty much confirm that Lovie and not Emery is calling the shots on personnel matters.
A lot of knee-jerkers are gonna point to the Giants as proof that you need two good RBs to win a SuperBowl but what they'd be forgetting is that in addition to those 2 RBs, the Giants also have three pro-caliber WRs, a capable OL and a Top 5 DL... all of which the Bears currently lack and will not be improved by drafting a RB -- even one as good as Richardson.
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OTOH, what via his draft position is Richardson going to cost you as compared to Forte, new contract or franchised? And we still have a capable backup in Kalil Bell. The only thing different between us and the Giants is a big back. We dont have that Jacobs type back to pound the line. I could live with and understand cutting bait with Forte.
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Isnt Richardson supposed to be like a top 5 pick? If he falls to 19, there is something majorly wrong. Majorly.
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Are our problems in short yardage from the lack of a big back or the lack of a n effective o-line?
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we need to resign Forte.
I like Barber and Bell as backups.
Barber isn't quite the bulldozer Jacobs is but he is a violent runner that punishes defenders to get tough yards.
we don't really know that Richardson will be as good as Forte.
I would keep Forte.
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Are our problems in short yardage from the lack of a big back or the lack of a n effective o-line?
I vote Oline.
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Isnt Richardson supposed to be like a top 5 pick? If he falls to 19, there is something majorly wrong. Majorly.
The three teams I've seen Richardson commonly mocked to are the Bucs (5), the Chiefs (11) and the Cardinals (13) but if trades start happening at the top of the round (for example, a team maneuvering to get RGIII), who knows? A lot of teams ahead of us have bigger needs than RB and you could even argue that holds true for the three teams I mentioned. For example, the Bucs really really need CBs. The Chiefs need a QB of the future and the Cards need O-Linemen. All things considered I would not be surprised if 2 or possibly 3 QBs, 3 WRs, at least 3 D-Linemen and 4 or 5 O-Lineman plus a DB or two all go off the board ahead of Richardson.
Much like Ingram last year, Richardson taking a dive on draft day may be less about how good of a talent he is per se and more about how teams have prioritized their needs.
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I vote Oline.
I agree...look at the Giants o-line. Bet Jacobs wouldn't look near as good behind ours.
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If we drafted Richardson, we could only hope that one day he would put up Forte numbers...
If Forte is healthy, we'd be fools to let him go.
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Right, and I'm all for keeping Forte.
The only reason I brought up a scenario of drafting Richardson in the first place is, sometimes people go on the soapbox about taking "Best Player Available" no matter what and if Emery were to take that approach to its logical extreme and Richardson fell to 19, we could wind up with a RB in the 1st round even if we already had locked Forte up.
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Are our problems in short yardage from the lack of a big back or the lack of an effective o-line?
Both. Barber is better in short yardage than Forte but we could still use that 240-lber that takes 3 guys to bring down.
Our red zone issues with regard to the air game last year were due to 1) not having a big, physical, sure handed WR and 2) really bad playcalling (gadget plays). We've fixed #2 with the departure of Martz, and will hopefully fix #1 by the end of April.
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If you believe Dallas fans, Barber was that guy before he got paid...and honestly, that's my recollection of his Cowboys days as well...
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I'd always thought the knock on Barber was he couldn't stay healthy.
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If we drafted Richardson, we could only hope that one day he would put up Forte numbers...
If Forte is healthy, we'd be fools to let him go.
Depends on the money he holds out for. If he holds out for say 7-8 Mill/yr I dont believe he is worth that kind of money. Thats akin for you looking at a dealership and looking at the sticker of a 20K car and the dealer is asking for 40K. I bet you tell the dealer to go take a long walk off a short pier. I'd jump for joy at Richardson for 1 Mill as opposed to Forte at 8 Mill.
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I don't know what the standard "slotted" salary # for a RB taken 19 overall is, but I'm pretty sure Richardson would cost us a lot more than $1 mil a year. Probably more like $2.5 to $3 mil and a pretty decent signing bonus.
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I just threw out numbers. I have no idea what the salary slot #19 is worth. I know its no way near what it used to be.
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Yeah... I think once we franchise / sign Forte, the economics alone will dictate we don't draft Richardson even if he did fall to us and even if he was the Best Player Available. If you figure $7-8 mil for Forte, $3 mil for Richardson (plus signing bonus) and whatever Barber or Bell would cost, that's at least $12 mil for the year and that's way too much money to have invested in the RB position. Even for a team that gets off the bus running.
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Well unless I heard it wrong lately I think the Bears have until Monday to make a decision as to what to do about Forte. With the Bears having a gag rule about information leaking out its hard to tell what is going on about Forte.
I believe the Richardson talk is way way overblown as Richardson will be way gone by #19 anyways, regardless what slot #19 pays. I doubt seriously that Forte gets 7-8 Mill from the Bears. Thats just not the modus operandi of the Bears to invest that kind of money on a RB.
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I think the $8 mil (for one year) is what Forte gets if we franchise him. If we sign him long-term we will essentially be asking him to take less per year in exchange for increased long-term security and in that situation I'm thinking his base pay probably averages more like $5 or $6 mil a season with a hefty amount of it guaranteed.
I have to admit, this gag order at Halas Hall is pretty annoying. I can understand them wanting to not tip our hand to the other teams going into FA and the draft but to just not know what anyone up there is thinking at all is a little weird. I'm glad Pompeii said something about that in his Mailbag article cause up till then I just thought the Chicago beat writers had been slacking off. Probably not a real fun time to be them right now.
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Even with inflation 5-6 is more than I envision the Bears agreeing to pay
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Forte turned down 4 mil/yr if I am not mistaken.
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I think both sides need to re-calibrate their thinking on this a bit.
- What Emery, Phillips and the McCaskeys need to realize is that Matt Forte is one of the best (if not the best) dual-threat RBs in the game today; a guy who gives our offense a tremendous range of options, a guy who in too many games has been Cutler's ONLY productive receiving option and on top of everything else has never caused trouble on or off the field and has played hurt without complaint for almost half his career (including nearly the entire 2010 season). This is a player with a rare combination of talent and character and those are guys you don't just discard on a whim.
- What Forte and his agent need to realize is that in a lot of offenses outside of Chicago, the RB's main job is to get tough yards on-demand to eat clock, gain short-yardage 1st downs and get the ball into the endzone inside the 5 yard line. As well as being solid in pass protection. All of which are actually deficiencies in Forte's game. They also need to realize that the RB position per se has been devalued the last few years with the rule changes that now favor and enable videogame passing offenses. In many people's minds the concept of a "franchise RB" is passe, as is the logic of paying huge money to a single RB when you can do RB-by-committee with two or three lesser backs and get equal or better production for less money, plus the peace of mind knowing your whole running game won't tank if your franchise RB gets hurt.
So this to me is a classic example of Forte being worth more to the Bears than he is to a lot of other teams and the sooner both sides can understand this and structure a long-term deal with that in mind, the better.
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I think both sides need to re-calibrate their thinking on this a bit.
- What Emery, Phillips and the McCaskeys need to realize is that Matt Forte is one of the best (if not the best) dual-threat RBs in the game today; a guy who gives our offense a tremendous range of options, a guy who in too many games has been Cutler's ONLY productive receiving option and on top of everything else has never caused trouble on or off the field and has played hurt without complaint for almost half his career (including nearly the entire 2010 season). This is a player with a rare combination of talent and character and those are guys you don't just discard on a whim.
- What Forte and his agent need to realize is that in a lot of offenses outside of Chicago, the RB's main job is to get tough yards on-demand to eat clock, gain short-yardage 1st downs and get the ball into the endzone inside the 5 yard line. As well as being solid in pass protection. All of which are actually deficiencies in Forte's game. They also need to realize that the RB position per se has been devalued the last few years with the rule changes that now favor and enable videogame passing offenses. In many people's minds the concept of a "franchise RB" is passe, as is the logic of paying huge money to a single RB when you can do RB-by-committee with two or three lesser backs and get equal or better production for less money, plus the peace of mind knowing your whole running game won't tank if your franchise RB gets hurt.
So this to me is a classic example of Forte being worth more to the Bears than he is to a lot of other teams and the sooner both sides can understand this and structure a long-term deal with that in mind, the better.
But the otherside of that is that because League offenses have changed, Forte's League value isnt as high as it is to the Bears and he has to tone down his salary demands, because he isnt going to get that kind of money elsewhere.
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That would make sense if Forte wasn't one of, if not THE best pass-catching RB's in the league.
But he is...
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Agreed.
To say Matt Forte is the best pass-catching RB since Marshall Faulk is not overstating things. If it were not for his abilities to get open and get YAC we would have had NO air game whatsoever in many games last season, especially the games where Bennett was out. His pass-catching prowess has probably been worth 3-4 wins a year for the Bears during his career and especially when you consider the utter dreck Angelo has saddled this team with at the WR position.
If the boys in Halas Hall can drop millions of dollars on POS like Omiyale and Malamaleuna but can't reward a guy like Forte long-term then something is really wrong.
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I can see the point and the value to the Bears is higher than it is to other teams, but that doesnt make the Bears cheap because his league value is cheaper elsewhere. Were the Bears to let him walk he wouldnt get the money he is asking elsewhere either. The problem is that I believe it was the Titans that overpaid for their running back and that supposedly makes Forte worth what he is asking. Just because one team is stupid doesnt require the Bears to be equally stupid.
OTOH, I cant totally blame Forte for asking for a good paycheck. The shelflife of a RB isnt long with injuries and you have to make your money when you can.
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The problem is that I believe it was the Titans that overpaid for their running back and that supposedly makes Forte worth what he is asking.
You're thinking of Chris Johnson (who totally tanked after he got paid, which also isn't helping Forte's cause) -- but the deal that a lot of people point to as really blowing the curve for RBs is the one DeAngelo Williams got from the Panthers.
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Chris Johnson was turning it on as the season went along. He didn't tank anything.
I'd take him on our team in a New York minute!
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But ya cant afford to pay everybody like a superstar. The pie has to get divided somehow. And its not like a union where all RBs get X dollars. Is Chris Johnson good? Yeah he is.
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I can't remember, is Chris Johnson the only star in Tenn?
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The other problem is that Forte was WOEFULLY underpaid last year. So he is trying to get some back pay, which he may deserve, but Halas Hall doesnt seem to want to dish out.
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The other problem is that Forte was WOEFULLY underpaid last year. So he is trying to get some back pay, which he may deserve, but Halas Hall doesnt seem to want to dish out.
If you are going to go that route you have to factor in how much he was initially paid before he even took the field as a pro. Halas hall took a chance as every organization does with every rookie. Was he going to give back anything if he busted? You sign the contract you take your chances...both sides. Nobody owes him any "make up " money.
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Forte was a mid-2nd round pick. I don't know what his rookie signing bonus was (if he even got one) but I think his base salary this last season was something like $450K. In other words he's been on the "All-Pro Best Bargains" team his entire career.
Meanwhile Frank OMG has made several million a year for alternately playing some of the worst OL I have ever seen, and sitting on the bench. C'mon man.
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His deal should have been reworked last year. For what his % contribution was, and what he was paid, not fair, at all.
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In fact, I remember back when Forte was having a string of really good rushing games this last season (before he got hurt), someone asked one of the Bears O-Linemen if Forte had taken them out to dinner and the guy replied, "I'm not sure he can afford it." I think he was only half joking.
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yes...450k just doesn't go as far as it used to
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yes...450k just doesn't go as far as it used to
Agreed, but if you were making 1/10 of what you should be, that isnt fair.
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I'll take 450K salary this year....send me an email and I tell you where to mail the check. Lol.
Pay Forte...just don't over pay Forte. I believe that is why the long negotation.
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Pay Forte...just don't over pay Forte.
Could not agree more.
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I'll take 450K salary this year....send me an email and I tell you where to mail the check. Lol.
Pay Forte...just don't over pay Forte. I believe that is why the long negotation.
Absolutely agree.
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Agreed, but if you were making 1/10 of what you should be, that isnt fair.
He's making what he signed to play for si in that sense it's absolutely fair. Nobody put a gun to his head to sign the contract. When the contract is up then yes, get whatever you can.
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He had a very nice contract offered to him last year and turned it down. Now he will get an even better one ofered to him. If he does not sign it he will be franchise tagged and make over 8 million this year.
He will be fine financially the rest of his life if he has half a brain in his head (which I suspect he does).
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I dunno....millions didn't help Terrell Owens brain any....how on earth do you burn through MILLIONS of dollars with nothing left? Hard to imagine, really....
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Terrel Owens was an idiot his entire life. Forte seems to be pretty bright. He gambled he would improve his value last year and did not sign a good but not great contract.
It remains to be seen if he gets an even bigger contract or gets franchised. Either way he is going to get payed a ton of money. The only way he does not is if he holds out or gets a career ending injury before before he signs the new deal or franchise deal. The chances of that are pretty remote unless he does something stupid not related to football and has a freak accident.
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Hopefully he's smart enough to buy an insurance policy to protect him from that.
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Million dollar legs??
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SAFETYS
Mark Barron, SS, Alabama
Height: 6-2. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.61.
Projected Round (2011): 1-2. ??? 2011???
Robert Lester*, S, Alabama
Height: 6-2. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.51.
Projected Round (2012): 2.
Bacarri Rambo*, S, Georgia
Height: 6-0. Weight: 218.
Projected 40 Time: 4.57.
Projected Round (2012): 2.
Markelle Martin, S, Oklahoma State
Height: 6-1. Weight: 203.
Projected 40 Time: 4.58.
Arm: 31 1/8. Hand: 8 1/2.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.
Winston Guy Jr., S, Kentucky
Height: 6-1. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.49.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
Trumaine Johnson, FS/CB, Montana
Height: 6-2. Weight: 197.
Projected 40 Time: 4.54.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
Brandon Taylor, FS, LSU
Height: 5-11. Weight: 202.
Projected 40 Time: 4.51.
Arm: 31 1/2. Hand: 9 1/8.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
Trenton Robinson, FS, Michigan State
Height: 5-10. Weight: 193.
Projected 40 Time: 4.53.
Arm: 33 1/8. Hand: 9 3/4.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
Neiko Thorpe, FS, Auburn
Height: 6-3. Weight: 191.
Projected 40 Time: 4.52.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.
Delano Howell, SS, Stanford
Height: 5-11. Weight: 198.
Projected 40 Time: 4.53.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Eddie Whitley, FS, Virginia Tech
Height: 6-1. Weight: 190.
Projected 40 Time: 4.42.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Aaron Henry, FS, Wisconsin
Height: 6-0. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Tavon Wilson, SS, Illinois
Height: 6-0. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.51.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Tony Dye, SS, UCLA
Height: 5-11. Weight: 204.
Projected 40 Time: 4.50.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Blake Gideon, FS, Texas
Height: 6-1. Weight: 200.
Projected 40 Time: 4.54.
Projected Round (2012): 4-5.
Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
Height: 6-2. Weight: 212.
Projected 40 Time: 4.61.
Arm: 31 1/8. Hand: 10 1/8.
Projected Round (2012): 4-6.
Rashard Hall*, FS, Clemson
Height: 6-2. Weight: 195.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2012): 5-6.
Jerrell Young, FS, South Florida
Height: 6-1. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.53.
Projected Round (2012): 5-6.
Lance Mitchell, S, Oregon State
Height: 6-2. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.60.
Projected Round (2012): 5-6.
George Iloka, S, Boise State
Height: 6-4. Weight: 222.
Projected 40 Time: 4.58.
Arm: 33 7/8. Hand: 9 5/8.
Projected Round (2012): 6-7.
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http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html
Has us trading up to 15 to take OT Martin from Stanford. Dont think I have heard much about this kid.
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Arguably the 2nd best LOT in the draft. Good move if you can do it
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Martin is considered by many as the 2nd best LT prospect in this year's class after Kalil who will go Top 3.
At 6'6 305 he is a bit on the skinny side but he did protect Andrew Luck's blindside so you know he can play the position.
It shouldn't cost us that much to move from 19 to 15 but if we did that I'd want to know that Martin will be starting for us on Day One.
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I'd give Emery high marks if he pulled that off
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I have a feeling that if we don't land a big stud WR in FA, that #1 draft pick will be going to WR.
With Bowe potentially being tagged by the Chiefs, that becomes more of a possibility.
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I havent heard that the Chiefs will tag Bowe or have threatened to do so
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/21/pioli-says-chiefs-hope-to-re-sign-carr-bowe/
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Maybe they will tag Bowe. When is the first day for tags?
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Some interesting stuff coming out of the Combine weigh-ins for the WRs.
Specifically, Alshon Jeffery's weight (or lack of it). 6'3 216 when he had been rumored to be in the 240s and was falling into the 2nd round in some mocks.
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More about Jeffery at the combine:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/24/alshon-jeffery-sheds-large-amount-of-weight-for-combine/
It also says he has over an 80-inch wingspan, in other words he's 6'3 and change but with the "radius" of a guy roughly 6'8. That's a big target.
I was a big fan of his early on but honesty am not quite sure what to think about him anymore. He will likely play no lighter than 225 in the pro's so that pretty much discounts his 40 time, whatever it winds up being at the combine. You also have to wonder about the mindset of a guy who knows he could have been a better college teammate at a lighter weight, but chose not to make the sacrifices for that to happen.
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FWIW the O-Linemen did their bench presses today at the Combine. Numbers by some of the bigger names
Mike Adams - 19
David DeCastro - 34 (2nd most of the entire field)
Ryan Kalil - 30
Peter Konz - 18 (thought this number would be much higher)
Kevin Zeitler - 32
Zebrie Sanders - 28
Cordy Glenn - 31
Jonathan Martin from Stanford, Datko from FSU and a few others did not participate.
Full info here
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More about Jeffery at the combine:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/24/alshon-jeffery-sheds-large-amount-of-weight-for-combine/
It also says he has over an 80-inch wingspan, in other words he's 6'3 and change but with the "radius" of a guy roughly 6'8. That's a big target.
I was a big fan of his early on but honesty am not quite sure what to think about him anymore. He will likely play no lighter than 225 in the pro's so that pretty much discounts his 40 time, whatever it winds up being at the combine. You also have to wonder about the mindset of a guy who knows he could have been a better college teammate at a lighter weight, but chose not to make the sacrifices for that to happen.
Bingo. Gained weight, production suffered. So pay him and watch him balloon again with a little coin in his pocket. College is very much like a job interview. You are going to see the very best of someone before they are paid. Name the all pro team made up of players who had trouble controlling their weight? Discount the Oline. The players that come to mind are bruising type of tailbacks Bettis, Heyward (never an all pro). I can't think of one receiver that had trouble with their weight that didn't translate to the NFL. Work ethic. No thanks to Jeffrey, unless we want more frustration.
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Yikes, the guy we were going to get.
Ohio State’s Adams underwhelming at Combine
Posted by Evan Silva on February 25, 2012, 9:52 AM EST
AP
Most draftnik types pegged Ohio State tackle Mike Adams as a “riser” at last month’s Senior Bowl, but he’s showing some deficiencies at the NFL Scouting Combine.
Adams managed only 19 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press Friday. While his 34-inch arms make bench pressing tougher, Adams’ total was one of the lowest of the day among offensive linemen. And Adams is considered a potential first-round pick.
“That’s not acceptable for that position, not even close,” observed NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock. “You see a lot of defensive backs put up that many.”
Mayock also pointed out that Adams was suspended twice in college. A 25-game starter at Ohio State, Adams officially measured 6-foot-7 1/4 and 323 pounds during Friday’s weigh-in. His two “unofficial” forty times were 5.31 and 5.38.
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How many reps did Chris Williams put up at the combine. Wasnt it around 19?
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Keep in mind Chris Williams has very short arms this guy has long arms.
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You definitely need those long arms to keep separation
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Williams short arms is why many scouts felt he could not play tackle in the NFL and this was before Angello drafted him.
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And that was proven correct.
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Williams did 21 reps
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/combine?id=11840&_slug_=chris-williams&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft%2fplayer%2fcombine%3fid%3d11840%26_slug_%3dchris-williams
Arm length 32 3/4
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Funny that an inch and a quarter can make that much of a difference in arm length for a tackle. But there was a lot of talk about Williams having arms to short to play Tackle in the NFL.
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Floyd ran a 4.42, I think he'll be gone well before the Bears pick.
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4.42 is smokin for a guy that size. He'll probably be the next WR taken after Blackmon unless a lot of teams are really scared off by the character thing.
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And you dont think Emery wont?
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I think it's definitely possible Emery could scratch Floyd off the Bears board for character reasons.
Though others say Floyd has cleaned up his act this year. Hard to know what the real story is there.
Personally, it's clowns like this that I would really be steering away from...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/26/janoris-jenkins-answers-the-tough-questions/
Kicked out of the U of Florida (which takes some doing), has FOUR kids already... this kid is one bad seed. Makes Floyd look like a choirboy.
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Seems as if the kid Hill from GT really impressed. Anyone watch him this year??
Guess he played in option offense with only 28 balls thrown his way. Major wild card. 6'4" 215 4.36 40 time.
Watched the Wr drills on NFL.com. Still like Blackmon, smoothest WR in the bunch. If he drops past 4th pick we should move up to grab him. Although I doubt he last that long.
Also was reading that this is very deep draft for WR and DT's. Short on TE's. Each draft is unique.
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We could use a DT and a WR. OK?
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We could use a DT and a WR. OK?
WR
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WR and LT. After that fill holes best you can.
The Carroll County Times' Aaron Wilson is "hearing" the Bears will be a potential landing spot for free agent LG Ben Grubbs if he is not re-signed by the Ravens.
Grubbs has been expected to reach the open market, but coach John Harbaugh insisted in a radio interview last week that the Ravens were going to "really make a run" at re-signing him. The Bears ended 2011 with former undrafted free agent Edwin Williams at left guard.
If this is true perhaps the plan is to get a stud LG and let Williams and Webb fight it out for LT. While it would improve the OL I think getting a true stud LT would help more. Of course getting a really good LT is almost as hard as getting a good QB.
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Sorry, I dont want to go through what we did before with Williams and his short arms at LT. Grubbs? He's OK. I still dont believe LG is the problem on the line.
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If this is true perhaps the plan is to get a stud LG and let Williams and Webb fight it out for LT.
I've been wondering this exact thing for awhile. Then whoever loses out at LT would still be our backup swing guy since both Webb and Williams have played OT on both sides.
If we're really serious about upgrading LG then we should go all-in for Carl Nicks though instead of settling for Grubbs.
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The WR situation in the draft is really getting interesting.
- Floyd is a person of interest for many Bears fans and I think it would have been in the Bears best interests if he had not had a good combine, but he actually did. So he may be gone by 19.
- Alshon Jeffery may have moved himself back up into the 1st round but 19 seems a bit high for a guy who apparently didn't care enough about his team at South Carolina to stay in optimal playing shape. There are also reports from the combine that he turned off some teams in his interviews.
- That Hill kid showed himself to be a freak at the combine but are those numbers enough to justify picking him at 19? If I was confident in our ability to develop WRs I'd like the chances a lot more but Daryl Drake is hardly a WRs guru and we have many years of evidence to that effect. Hill could wind up being one of those guys that does nothing for us, we let him go in 3 yrs and he starts tearing it up for somebody else.
- Kendall Wright is a guy very likely to be there at 19 but another 5'10 WR is the last thing we need and especially with a terrible showing at the combine (4.61 40 and small hands). I will not be a happy fan if this is our pick in Round 1.
It kinda feels like 19 is a no-mans land for WRs the way things are shaking out so I could see us going another direction in Rd 1 and seeing if some value shows up in the 2nd round.
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Hill should slip to the 2nd round. I wouldnt overpay with #19. I also think Floyd has character issues that will not endear him to the Bears. I read the Trib article on Floyd and it seems he doesnt get out of the gate at top speed. It takes him time to crank it up. GMs say he doesnt play that fast in games. You need somebody who can get that separation immediately as we dont have the OL to allow Floyd to get that separation. So IMHO we should look in another direction with our first pick, perhaps trading up for Martin as suggested by somebody. That Grubbs blurb scares me.
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Warning Will Robinson warning:
Jeffery weighed in at 215, down more than 15 pounds from his playing weight during the season, but it wasn't enough to impress scouts. They said he did poorly in interviews and appeared as if he had not been lifting weights.
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Agreed... I was really high on Alshon Jeffery a couple months ago but now if I'm Emery, I'm thinking about taking him off the board altogether.
Jeffery's head is not right. A year ago people were comparing him favorably to Calvin Johnson and now by the looks of things it's questionable whether the kid even wants to play pro ball at all. You can't coach "want-to".
In fact, based on the combine reports I've been reading, there's only two WR prospects who really helped their stock last week and those are the Hill kid from Georgia Tech, and Michael Floyd. Guys like Jeffery (bad interviews), Kendall Wright (terrible 40, small hands) and even Blackmon (smaller than advertised) tanked it pretty badly.
Looks like opening up the checkbook for Vincent Jackson is the Bears' best option at this point.
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Agreed... I was really high on Alshon Jeffery a couple months ago but now if I'm Emery, I'm thinking about taking him off the board altogether.
Jeffery's head is not right. A year ago people were comparing him favorably to Calvin Johnson and now by the looks of things it's questionable whether the kid even wants to play pro ball at all. You can't coach "want-to".
In fact, based on the combine reports I've been reading, there's only two WR prospects who really helped their stock last week and those are the Hill kid from Georgia Tech, and Michael Floyd. Guys like Jeffery (bad interviews), Kendall Wright (terrible 40, small hands) and even Blackmon (smaller than advertised) tanked it pretty badly.
Looks like opening up the checkbook for Vincent Jackson is the Bears' best option at this point.
I have to agree, especially if other WRs are tagged. We should know that pretty soon too.
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If for some reason Vincent Jackson, Colston and Bowe all wind up being tagged then I almost think you have to dust off the talk about trading for Brandon Marshall again.
Sending our 1st round pick to Miami for Brandon Marshall would make me feel a lot better than spending it on Kendall Wright, Alshon Jeffery, any OL not named David DeCastro or pretty much ANY defensive player likely to be there at 19.
These bargain-basement scenarios I've seen where we sign a Laurent Robinson or a Robert Meachem in FA, draft a Nick Toon or a Marvin McNutt in the 2nd round and call it a day, simply are not ambitious enough.
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Wouldn't be surprised if this guy is high on the Bears' board:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/whitney-mercilus-shows-off-his-quick-first-step/
U of I product... 16 sacks vs. Big Ten OLs... Marinelli must be having Simeon Rice wet dream flashbacks every night on this guy.
Bears fans will howl in protest if we go DL in the 1st round (and it will instantly be called "Lovie's draft") -- but the way the WR and OL classes seem to be shaking out... maybe he's BPA at 19 and then you just have to hope his production from Day One justifies a mid-1st round pick on essentially a part-time player.
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Or, maybe we finally decide to get big at DT:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/dontari-poe-is-a-scary-individual/
Read this article and notice the 40 this guy ran at over 345 lbs. Freaky.
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That's not actually true about us fans. IF we go D, it's got to be for a superstar player. One that most scouts agree will wreak havoc on a offense. I would not have a problem with that at all. As long as they also address the pressing needs at WR and OL. Bears, I think, should be a Defense oriented team FIRST followed by a very good offensive team.
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I wouldn't mind a DT as big as Big Ted Washington that could move.
Someone who could collapse the pocket from the center would help our pass rush and slow down those dink and dunk passes over the middle.
I saw on NFLN that Bowe might get the tag if he doesn't sign.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8273d35a/article/chiefs-reportedly-willing-to-apply-franchise-tag-to-wr-bowe
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Break the bank to sign Mario Williams and then draft Poe DT in the 1st.
Our offense would struggle to score 13 points a game, and Cutler would finish the season IR'd again... but boy would we make it tough on the other team's OL. :D
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This scares me cause I've seen this guy going to the Bears in some mocks:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/miami-linebacker-sean-spence-raises-eyebrows-with-weak-bench-press/
I mean really... what's with so many of these big-name guys coming to the combine out of shape this year? This Spence guy, Alshon Jeffery, Mike Adams... It's like they're treating this thing as just another thing on the list instead of the job interview of a lifetime. This is a potential multi-million dollar career some of these guys are looking at, and they can't even put in the prep time to come to this thing in top form?
I tell you one thing... knowing Emery's prior background I would have to think that if you're a kid that wants to get drafted by the Chicago Bears, the last thing you wanted to do is show up out of shape to this year's combine.
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I don't understand folks coming to the combine out of shape unless maybe they were injured and couldn't work out or something.
I do know that for guys with really long arms like a 6'7 OL or a 6'4 WR that a bench press is harder on guys with short arms.
Adams might be just as strong as guy as a guy that is 6'3 but just can't do as many reps. I guess to if your arms are 2 inches longer then you are pushing the weight farther each time as well.
I'm sure there is some formula you could calculate on arm length to even up the score.
With an LT I think I'm more concerned with his footwork and his wingspan. He'll be stronger than most DE's he lines up against.
I would be more concerned if a 6'3 OG only did 19 reps. Suh would push him into next week.
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That Poe guy sounds like a monster. But Lovie doesnt like big DTs.
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From the Bears perspective, the LT situation really didn't clarify itself at the combine at all, IMO.
Kalil looked and worked out as advertised. Lockdown Top 3 pick, not applicable to Bears.
Riley Reiff is probably not a LT candidate but still will go before the Bears pick.
Mike Adams had a bad bench, a bad 40 and did OK but not amazing in the drills. About the best things he did at the combine were to not come in ridiculously under or overweight. I haven't seen any reports on how he did in interviews. It would be interesting to know if Emery sat down with hiim. Based on the combine I think you'd have say that best case, he's not as athletic as advertised and worst case, he didn't put in a lot of time to prepare. Either of which is a red flag when you're considering a Top 20 pick on a guy, IMO. Mike Adams is starting to remind me a lot of Chris Williams when he came out -- big and athletic but inconsistent, lacking aggression to his game and a bit of a head case. That's a bad thing. If Adams fell into the 2nd round it wouldn't surprise me... all the pieces just don't add up with that guy.
Jonathan Martin from Stanford, who I'm sure the Bears were very interested in seeing, basically was a DNP across the board despite being healthy. Really don't know WTF is up with that decision and it makes you wonder what he's hiding.
The guy who probably performed himself right out of our income bracket was David DeCastro. Not a great 40 but did 34 reps and killed it in all the drills. Weighed in at something like 6'4 316 which is prototypical NFL OG size and carrying the weight well. I was hoping he might slip to 19 but see no way that happens now.
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I haven't seen any game on Poe but if he is sitting there at 19 and we aren't sold on the WR or LT that is available I won't be upset if we take him.
I'd rather take an upgrade at DT,DE or CB over reaching for LT or WR.
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Yeah it kinda stinks that we really don't need a DT cause it looks like there's some quality players in this year's class at that position who will likely be available.
Drafting a DT in round 1 this year would feel a lot like buying a 50-inch HDTV for a 2-bedroom house when you've already got an HDTV in every room -- and the stove isn't working. I guess the Giants have benefited from stocking up on good D-Linemen, but that philosophy hasn't really worked out so well for the Bears. Marinelli's supposed genius in developing D-Lineman has been exposed as pretty much an urban legend.
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I think it's definitely possible Emery could scratch Floyd off the Bears board for character reasons.
I may be mistaken but didn't the Chiefs drafted Bowe with character issues?
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Bowe is no choirboy, I know that.
But I don't think Bowe was an Emery draft pick. Emery was only in KC for the last couple of seasons and Bowe is a 6-year vet.
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From the Bears perspective, the LT situation really didn't clarify itself at the combine at all, IMO.
Kalil looked and worked out as advertised. Lockdown Top 3 pick, not applicable to Bears.
Riley Reiff is probably not a LT candidate but still will go before the Bears pick.
Mike Adams had a bad bench, a bad 40 and did OK but not amazing in the drills. About the best things he did at the combine were to not come in ridiculously under or overweight. I haven't seen any reports on how he did in interviews. It would be interesting to know if Emery sat down with hiim. Based on the combine I think you'd have say that best case, he's not as athletic as advertised and worst case, he didn't put in a lot of time to prepare. Either of which is a red flag when you're considering a Top 20 pick on a guy, IMO. Mike Adams is starting to remind me a lot of Chris Williams when he came out -- big and athletic but inconsistent, lacking aggression to his game and a bit of a head case. That's a bad thing. If Adams fell into the 2nd round it wouldn't surprise me... all the pieces just don't add up with that guy.
Jonathan Martin from Stanford, who I'm sure the Bears were very interested in seeing, basically was a DNP across the board despite being healthy. Really don't know WTF is up with that decision and it makes you wonder what he's hiding.
The guy who probably performed himself right out of our income bracket was David DeCastro. Not a great 40 but did 34 reps and killed it in all the drills. Weighed in at something like 6'4 316 which is prototypical NFL OG size and carrying the weight well. I was hoping he might slip to 19 but see no way that happens now.
I dont know what his game is. I suppose one could get a better idea if he knew how he interviewed and who he interviewed with. My guess is he figures that he wont be drafted by real bad teams if he doesnt play the combine game. Maybe he figures he'd prefer to go to a contender by not performing. Thats not the brightest decision cause it'll cost him some dough. Then again maybe its his agent thats telling him what to do. Maybe he already wants to go to team X who has told him they'll take him. Other than things like that I am curious as to what his logic is in not performing at the combine.
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Yup. A lot of mock drafts before the combine had Martin as a Top 15 pick and possibly the next OT to be taken after Kalil.
Maybe he figures he'll do all the proving he needs to do at the Stanford Pro Day but that didn't stop his OL-mate DeCastro from fully participating. As it is, Martin basically flew halfway across the country to get measured and weighed. I assume he interviewed with some teams but I haven't seen anything on that so maybe he declined those too?
Just doesn't seem like a very smart move assuming there's no health reason behind it. And if there is a health issue it would have best been disclosed before the combine rather than having people speculate.
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What about roids? Did he give urine or blood samples or just get weighed and measured?
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Thats what the basketball players do at the NBA combine. If they are lottery picks they dont perform, just get measured and weighed.
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Hill could be another Heyward-Bey.
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AS far as I'm concerned the interviews are the only relevant thing to the combine, and we don't get to see those.
So Mike Adams can block defensive ends but isn't pretty in the weight room.
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I think the combine has an effect on some guys.
I expect Dontarius Poe will rise up the boards a little.
Hill who was in a run first program at GT likely jumped up the board some as well.
Other guys that come in out of shape or who blow the interviews likely drop some.
if you are a small school WR that runs a great 40 time, it might be they would have been undrafted but it could be they get picked in the 3rd or 4th round now.
It seems on NFLN they are really hyping RG3 but I don't see as much love for Luck.
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The problem arises when Mike Adams gets to the Pro level and finds nearly every DE he faces is very talented and very strong and he himself falls short(er) than he thought because he isn't able to contain these larger, faster lineman than he was at the college level. Strength is pretty darned important when it comes to OL.
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Time was, guys would work their butts off ahead of the combine to get into top shape, and then show up and participate in EVERYTHING. With guys like Alshon Jeffery, Mike Adams, Vontaze Burfict, Sean Spence and a number of the QBs this year it's pretty clear that can't be assumed anymore. This BS of guys coming to Indy and then saying, well, I'm gonna just sit out and wait till I can be on my own college field, doing drills with my own guys, etc. etc. just is really getting old. The whole idea of the combine is to level the playing field and try not to give anyone an unfair advantage.
The bigger question I have with Mike Adams is, were those bench and 40 numbers the result of training hard up to the combine, or of NOT training hard up to the combine? If he worked his azz off the last 2-3 months and 19 reps and a 5.4 was the best he could do, that's one thing. But if he just took it easy and came in with the attitude that the chips would fall where they may... and those numbers were the outcome... that's a problem. Because that speaks to the guy's level of professionalism and love for the game.
Sportster, IMO, has it nailed. Mike Adams is a huge, reasonably skilled guy who was able to take games off in college against inferior competition. Those days have come to an end. Right now I look at Mike Adams and I see Webb's size, skills and inconsistency combined with Chris Williams' "soft" demeanor, questionable work ethic and blase approach to the game. That's not a combination that appeals to me at all. If somehow Mike Adams falls to our 2nd round pick, maybe worth the risk but right now there's just too much that doesn't add up to make him Top 20 pick, IMO.
Now in Mike Adams defense... at least he participated in everything. Which puts him ahead of Jonathan Martin who was a virtual no-show at Indy with no good reason disclosed. Adams also had a very good week at the Senior Bowl going against two lockdown Top 20 DEs (Coples and Ingram). So maybe he's just one of those guys who doesn't "test" well but does OK in actual game situations, and/or needs a high level of competition to incent him to do his best.
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Another Round 1 guy that would probably send Bears fans into a coronary -- but wouldn't shock me silly -- is Mark Barron, S from Bama.
If Emery really doesn't think Conte & Wright are our duo for the future, and he sees the top ranked S in the draft being a fair value at 19, it could happen.
That being said... Top 20 for a S is almost always a reach. I've watched a lot of Bama football and Barron is a good player but he's no Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu and that's the caliber of guy you need to be getting when you go S in the Top 20.
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Read that DT Poe takes a large number of plays off. Too many. It said big guys always take some off, but he takes off too many.
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From what I can tell re Poe, the questions are compounded by the fact that he did not play in a top-tier conference.
Translation = based on his combine numbers, you should see a guy on tape that is just taking over games on a regular basis and dominating his level of competition (Conference USA). Which really, he didn't. So that raises questions about his viability at the NFL level or at least, as a 1st round pick.
With the fiasco we've seen with Albert Haynesworth it is very understandable that GMs may be concerned when they see a huge, freakishly athletic guy that only appears to put forth maximum effort "sometimes".
What also has to be understood is that guys who play Poe's position are often so busy absorbing double or triple team blocks that they don't have a lot of opportunity to make "splash" plays. Sometimes the best way to evaluate a NT isn't by how many plays he makes, but how many plays the LBs behind him make.
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I read today that Jonathan Martin came down with food poisoning at Indy and that's why he didn't participate in anything.
So I guess we have to wait till the Stanford Pro Day. None of the other OTs really grabbed the bull by the horns at the combine to jump into the #2 spot behind Kalil so I would expect Martin goes right back up into Top 15 contention if he has a good Pro Day.
OTOH the way some of these D-Linemen performed at the combine, maybe there's a run on them in the the middle of the 1st. It would only take a couple of teams ahead of us taking D-Linemen unexpectedly and a guy like Martin could fall into our laps.
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Bleacher Report has this for our 1st 3 rounds.
1 - Kendall Wright, WR Baylor (Melvin Ingram, Stephen Hill, Jonathan Martin and Mike Adams still on the board)
2 - Duane Allen, TE Clemson (Brian Quick and Nick Toon still on the board)
3a - Brandon Thompson, DT Clemson
3b - Trumaine Johnson, CB Montana
Not impressed. I certainly hope we can do better than that.
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Way underwhelmed with a TE in the 2nd round. Not impressed with Wright either especially with Martin on the board. With the main need being LOT and bypassing the position leaves me very disgusted. Sounds like Angelo 2.
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Wright is a good player, but he's totally not what we need at WR. Another midget speed guy that Cutler would have to run all over the field trying to find and then hope he didn't just get totally mugged by a big CB going up for the ball. A la Hester, Knox, etc. You combine his 5'10 height with the fact that he padded his stats against some really bad Big XII pass defenses and I think we would be very disappointed at the impact he would have (or not have) on our offense. Martin or Ingram would be far better picks than Wright if both were still there at 19.
Now that being said, my rant above assumes we haven't picked up a big WR in FA. If we did manage to land a Vincent Jackson or a Marques Colston, then picking Wright becomes easier to take although that's still a very high pick for a 5'10 WR in this day and age. He also has very small hands, so fumbling / tips become a concern especially in the cold games the Bears play late in the season.
TE is a luxury we can't afford to spend a pick on this year. I expect Tice realizes that as much as anyone, the question is whether Emery will give him a fair hearing on that point. Besides, not only do we have Kellen but we also have that Kyle Adams kid coming off IR. I'm pretty confident we may already have the TE talent we need in-house.
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I may like the Brian Quick pick if they make it. I like what I've been seeing from the scouting reports. He could be a diamond in the rough.
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Quick has real nice size (6'4 220-ish), the agility of an ex-basketball player (which he is), good enough speed and big, sure hands. And based on this scouting report, he could be a guy that solves our red zone issues once and for all.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=100005
He exploded for a 71 catch, 2000-yard season his final year and was truly a man among boys at his level of competition. The big question on him of course is his ability to scale-up to the NFL level from Appalachian State.
Bears have traditionally not shied away from small school products. Sometimes they've worked out (Tillman, Johnny Knox, Chris Villerial), sometimes not so much (John Thierry, Daniele Manning, Frank Omiyale, J'Marcus Webb).
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Omiyale wasn't drafted by the Bears thank God. He's got to be gone soon!
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Omiyale wasn't drafted thank God. He's got to be gone soon!
I know, seriously, what's the holdup? Start getting the dead wood outta here already, Emery!
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Amen brother. I cant wait. Whats the holdup?
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The NFL gets caught up in the 'lately' phase. Lately, TE's have been all the rage. Supposedly uncoverable and left wide open frequently, double tight end sets are used by Green Bay and the Patriots to good effect. Hence all these drafts showing a TE in the mix. Personally I think it's a dog and pony show. Yea some teams use em and it works great. Do I think the entire NFL now needs to go that route and follow like lemmings? No....still believe it comes down to running and stopping the run. Hard to stop a team that can run the ball well. Personally I still think the mold of the 85 Bears is what the current Bears should follow; a good QB with a deep threat, a very good RB with a terrifying D. Gives you the option of grinding it out and allows for quick scores to the speedy wideout if that is needed. Hate the 'pass,pass,pass' mindset.
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Agreed Sporty.
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Hard to stop a team that can run the ball well.
Not really. Several teams stopped the Bears O cold last year, and we were one of the best running teams in the league. Ravens, same deal.
I think the new baseline assumption has to be, you need to be able to put up 30 points in pretty much any given game to have a chance. That seems to be the new benchmark. Right now the Bears simply don't have the personnel to do that.
And then you factor in that our defensive players are getting old and that our scheme is 10 years out of date, and I think it very much behooves the Bears to make offense (and especially pass offense) priority one this offseason. A good pass rushing DE/DT or a solid #2 CB certainly wouldn't hurt, but those aren't the players who are going to get the Bears over-the-top in the upcoming years.
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2nd post-Combine mock draft now where I've seen us taking Wright in the 1st round.
Curse the combine. Floyd is the WR we need, not Wright, so Floyd having a great combine and Wright a bad one is the worst possible outcome for our prospects.
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I watch a lot of ND football, and I am not sold on Floyd unless we come up with Vincent Jackson too. Floyd is more like Maningham and we dont have the Oline to protect long enough to make a receiver like Floyd productive, whereas having a big spped receiver such as Jackson too makes Floyd more effective. Jackson will attract double coverage. IF, say we did get both Jackson and Floyd, it would probably mean we wouldnt get that LOT we need to make the line more productive which will negate any advantage getting Floyd and Jackson. So IMHO Floyd @ 19 wouldnt solve the problems as we'd still be whining about the Oline not protecting Cuttler and the line not giving Cuttler time to get the ball deep.
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All I'm saying is that Floyd being 6'3 220 with big hands and jumping ability is gonna help Cutler a lot more than a guy like Kendall Wright, who is basically a more polished Devin Hester at WR.
Tice is not going to buy into the Martz folly of sending 3 sub-6' WRs down the field and having Cutler stand back there 5 seconds praying he doesn't get killed before one of them gets open. Or hoping our 5'10 WR can beat their 6'2 CB on a jump ball. I foresee a good amount of rollouts, play-action, very few gadget plays (bubble screens, etc.) and a heavy orientation towards 8- to 15-yard routes, thrown into tight windows to take advantage of Cutler's elite arm strength. The deep ball will be taken when it's there but we're not gonna see Cutler uncorking it deep very often cause the quality of our OL simply won't allow for that. In a scheme like that a guy like Wright will be very limited in his usefulness whereas Floyd (who has been compared to Larry Fitzgerald in his ability to go high, make the tough physical catch and get YAC) is tailor-made.
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Plus hopefully Tice loses the chapters of the play book Martz had with the 7 step drops.
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And that stupid-ass backside throwback screen to the TE inside the opponent's 10.
Heck, if we could convert 65% of our 1st and goal tries inside the opponent's 5 without Cutler ever throwing a pass, I'd be happy as a clam. Gonna need a bigger, better OL and a short-yardage RB to do that, though.
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The problem I am aluding to with Floyd is that he doesnt play at the speed he is tested at because it takes time for him to crank up that body to top speed. That means it better be a short route. And in the NFL the CBs are much taller and able to get up to his level which again negates his height advantage. And I am not knocking his abilities or saying he would not be a good pick @ 19, just that in order to best utilize him you need the Oline LT fixed and another deep threat to go along with him, otherwise its foolish to assume he solves your receiver problems. Agreed in the red zone he would be more effective. I view Floyd as a tall possession receiver.
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It will be interesting to see whether Floyd moves ahead of Wright in the pecking order come draft day, or not. The biggest question on Floyd was his speed... and that was supposed to be Wright's selling point... so for both of them to counter expectations at the combine has certainly made things more interesting. They are such radically different styles of players though that in the final analysis it may not make that much difference.
And then of course you've got the X factor in the whole WR equation which remains Alshon Jeffery. He weighed 216 at the combine (15 down from his lsited college weight) but reportedly did not look like he had been working out much. And then compounded that by refusing to run or take part in any of the drills and then supposedly not coming off especially well in interviews. Now maybe he comes out fast and ripped at his Pro Day and just tears things up and gets back into contention as a legitimate Top 25 pick but as of today the arrow on him remains squarely pointing down. He's in that group with Mike Adams and a few other guys who have 1st-round physical tools but don't seem to be taking things as seriously as you'd like to see from a guy with a potential multimillion dollar career on the line.
Jeffery is a guy that I don't think Emery would remove from the board outright, but he's definitely a kid we'd want to do plenty of due diligence on beforehand. I love his upside but given our dreadful history of developing WRs and our weak player leadership I think the odds of him coming to Chicago and busting are high.
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Floyd just has a really weird running style that makes him look less explosive and slower that he really is. He's got more than enough speed to be productive in the NFL. Floyd was super productive at ND, despite the last two years of having a Tommy Rees throw him the ball (weak, weak, weak arm).
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Floyd just has a really weird running style that makes him look less explosive and slower that he really is.
Sometimes those are exactly the guys you want. The CB comes up, thinks, "I've got this guy" and all the sudden... he doesn't.
There's guys out there who just somehow always seem to wind up getting more yards than it looks like they are. Those guys are frustrating as hell to play against and it would be nice to have one of them on our side for a change.
I would so much rather have a 4.55 guy that can shake the bump at the line, make himself visible to the QB, and catch at least 95 out of every 100 catchable balls thrown to him than the 4.4 burner who disappears in traffic and has to have the ball put right on the numbers every time. We've tried the "short fast" guy approach with Hester and Knox and it hasn't worked out. A new approach that brings a much higher level of physicality to the WR position, is needed.
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Cu, that is exactly what I've been saying. He looks more like he lumbers down the field, rather than sprinting. He LOOKS slow.
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Regardless how fast Floyd runs I wouldnt take him at 19 unless we have filled the other two main needs we have first. We need a Vincent Jackson #1 receiver and we need a bonifide LT to replace Webb. The way FA is shaking out there isnt enough value out there at LT to go after which means we better come up with that LT at #19 and if we need to move up to get the guy we better have plans to move up to get him.
Emery was hired to improve the draft and its obvious Angelo ignored the Oline in the draft and thought some clown drafted in the 7th round was equal to a 1st round pick. He has to come away with a LT somehow or he will not show himself any better than Angelo the man, his predecessor, who was fired. Thats the way I see it.
So it will be interesting to see what Emery can do to improve that OLine. Football is a game won at the line of scrimage and our line is the worst in the league. Jim Finks, God rest his sole, would never have let our OLine deteriorate to last in the league.
If LT hasnt been addressed by draft day I will be clamoring for a LT at 19 and I wont give 2 wet farts about Floyd or some other WR.
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Agreed, Emery will have a lot of explaining to do if FA and the draft both come and go and no one has been added to the roster to legitimately challenge Webb at LT.
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And I dont mean some 2nd, 3rd or 4th round OT. Rare when somebody slips that far when the position is that critical (QB blind side)
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V=Jack and the best OL available. I would have trouble passing on Decastro to pick up number 3 LT
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3LT? They dont have any.
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DeCastro will be long gone by 19 but yeah if he were there it would be a brain-dead pick for the Bears.
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I think Grizz is saying why pass on Steve Hutchinson to pick up the 3rd(or 4th) best LT in the draft who is likely no better than the guys we currently have on board.
If you do take DeCastro, what do you do with C. Williams?
LG is the only position he has played well in a couple of years.
He did ok at LT for awhile before he got hurt but hasn't been the same there since.
I won't be surprised if we don't stick it out with the guys we have on OL. I think Tice believes by adjusting the scheme that we can with with those guys.
honestly it won't surprise me if we get a WR in FA and not go OL in round 1.
I could even see us going WR in FA and WR in round 1 and then getting some D players in rnd 2 and maybe some OL depth at 2,3.
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Considering Jackson is likely looking in the $12mil range we should consider Colston strongly.
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I said this once before, but adding a guy like DeCastro could improve up to 4 positions on our OL.
1) He starts at Day One, making one of the OGs instantly better
2) He forces increased competition at the other LG spot, making that position better
3) Because of #s 1 and 2, Chris Williams no longer has to play out of position at OG and can push Webb at LT; presumably making that position better (though arguably, probably not yet good enough)
4) The loser of Webb/Chris Williams assumes the backup swing OT position which was formerly held by OMG... clearly an improvement even if neither Webb nor Chris Williams is true starting material
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The loser of Webb/Chris Williams assumes the backup swing OT position which was formerly held by OMG...
You keep saying that but in actuality neither Chris Williams or Webb are LT material which improves nothing. One needs to go. The only thing DeCastro improves is one position, LG.
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I'm saying that DeCastro would make our OL better than any OT that would be available at 19 because DeCastro is simply that good. Even if he is an OG.
Obviously the ideal solution is to sign the #1 available FA LT and the #1 available big FA WR. That takes the pressure off of us to fill our two biggest needs via the draft and allows us to pursue BPA whether that be additional OL, a burner to replace Johnny Knox at WR or defensive players or whatever. Whether Emery can pull that off remains to be seen.
I saw an article today that the Bills may be looking at Jonathan Martin with their 1st round pick so that tells me their current starting LT (Bell?) may be hitting the market. He would be a great pickup for us.
And IIRC, while J'Marcus Webb is clearly out of his depth at LT, he didn't totally suck at RT. It wouldn't hurt to have someone like that backstopping Carimi in case Big Gabe turns out to be a chronic medical case for however much longer he's with us.
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What I can't understand is that C.Williams basically shut down Jared Allen his rookie year but hasn't been able to play LT since he got hurt.
I wonder if he was dinged up and can actually play LT now.
If I remember right Williams was worse at RT than OMG.
I thought Webb did pretty well at RT for a 7th round rookie.
Webb basically was thrown in at LT last year with no offseason in a tough scheme.
I wonder how he will with an offseason and an easier scheme.
If they take DeCastro at 19 I won't be disappointed. In fact if they take a clear upgrade at most any position that appears to be good value I won't be disappointed. I would rather them take a clear upgrade at say DB or DL than reach for a LT or a big/slow WR.
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It's hard to know how J'Marcus Webb or Chris Williams would do in more of a WCO-style scheme. IIRC, Chris Williams has only played LT under Turner and Webb has only played LT under Martz. Maybe in the right scheme either of them could succeed at LT, OTOH maybe neither of them could. Emery and Lovie are really going to have to trust Tice's judgment on that and he had damn well better be right.
As far as going for value on the DL... that big Poe kid could present an interesting opportunity if he's there at 19. Yeah we all know Lovie hates big DTs but if Emery really has been given authority to re-make this roster and he thinks Poe is the best player available, he may just take the guy and tell Lovie to lump it. Cause seriously, if Lovie goes away after this season then his Tampa 2 goes with him and at that point a guy like Poe -- who could play either the big DT in a 4-3 or NT in a 3-4 -- gives you a guy who can anchor your D regardless of the scheme the new guy brings in. I mean, look at what Vince Wilfork has done for the Pats D and Poe is very much that kind of player, at least in terms of upside. Not to mention a guy like Poe clearing blockers away could add 2 to 3 years to the productive careers of guys like Urlacher and Briggs while drawing double-teams that otherwise would be going to Peppers. So again you'd have a force multiplier effect.
I get the impression that Emery's #1 agenda is to make the Bears a better football team... not to protect Lovie Smith's job. If the same moves accomplish both those objectives fine, but Lovie and Marinelli may very well not be here 2 years from now whereas presumably guys like Cutler, Forte and Urlacher still will be. So Emery needs to keep both the short and long-term view in mind.
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I'm saying that DeCastro would make our OL better than any OT that would be available at 19 because DeCastro is simply that good. Even if he is an OG.
Obviously the ideal solution is to sign the #1 available FA LT and the #1 available big FA WR. That takes the pressure off of us to fill our two biggest needs via the draft and allows us to pursue BPA whether that be additional OL, a burner to replace Johnny Knox at WR or defensive players or whatever. Whether Emery can pull that off remains to be seen.
I saw an article today that the Bills may be looking at Jonathan Martin with their 1st round pick so that tells me their current starting LT (Bell?) may be hitting the market. He would be a great pickup for us.
And IIRC, while J'Marcus Webb is clearly out of his depth at LT, he didn't totally suck at RT. It wouldn't hurt to have someone like that backstopping Carimi in case Big Gabe turns out to be a chronic medical case for however much longer he's with us.
I see what you are saying. Now if the Bears did get both Bell and VJax I would be fine with DeCastro or BPA. Bell, if healthy, would improve the line for sure and buy us enough time to wait till next year to find a stud replacement LT in the draft. The point is something needs to be done whether its in FA or whether its in the draft. We cant go on with Webb at LT and be successful. If Buffalo goes after Martin we would have to trade above them and I really dont see that happening.
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Bell, if healthy, would improve the line for sure and buy us enough time to wait till next year to find a stud replacement LT in the draft.
The problem being that if you believe we'll be a better team this year than we were last, we'll be drafting even lower next April than we are this year and our odds of being in position for a Day One starter at LT in the draft are practically nil.
What I think is happening in Halas Hall is that Tice is telling Emery that with "his" offensive system, the current OL can be salvaged and Emery is saying, "OK son you've got one year to prove it." We will know by the actions taken toward OL in FA and the draft exactly how highly Emery does (or doesn't) think of the current personnel. So there are two possible outcomes.
1) By some miracle Tice's scheme and the upgrade of one person on the OL (LT hopefully but not necessarily), manages to make our OL look better than any of us could have believed was possible... with pretty much the same cast of characters... in which case our entire offense and by extension the team SHOULD do very well,
OR
2) The OL will not be any better than last year, in which case we will miss the playoffs, Cutler will likely get hurt again, and Emery will absolutely clean house on both the coaches and the roster. In that scenario I could easily see guys like Garza, Webb, Spencer, Chirs Williams and maybe even Lance Louis all getting the axe and we're basically rebuilding the OL from scratch.
Now there's a third possibility and that's that the OL gets a lot better and our O works great but we still miss the playoffs because of our D. If that happens then Lovie and Marinelli are likely goners but maybe the OL is kept together intact.
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Oh God help us if we have to endure another year without a LT. I suppose its just me saying this, but suppose we dont make any changes in the OLine other than get back our injured players Carimi and Chris Williams, and Cuttler has improved weapons such as VJax and Floyd, then opposing defenses will scheme with blitzes and send everybody but granny to put Cuttler down. And they will be very successful at it.
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Right, and I think where you really have to focus the critique on Webb is that last regular season against the Vikings.
As long as the Bears gave Webb help from one or two other guys, we pretty much kept Jared Allen in check. But when Webb was left alone on Allen... NFW.
In today's NFL you live and die by the pass and you simply can't hamstring your offense by keeping guys out of the pattern to block cause your OTs can't do the job at least most of the time on their own.
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So then it boils down to getting a replacement for Webb. DeCastro cant. Chris Williams cant. Bell could provided he can stay healthy. I think Martin from Stanford could provided you could trade up high enough. Higher than Buffalo? Nope, wont work, too high up, too costly.
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I think the fact that Tice is a well-respected OL coach around the league could really help tip the balance in our favor if we get serious about trying to land a top FA LT.
Don't think that players haven't noticed Tice going to bat in public for "his guys" the Bears OL the last two years even when that group has come under withering (and well-deserved) critique. He has also shown a willingness to flex with guys to try and help them succeed (e.g., moving Chris Williams inside). Those are things that veteran players notice.
The other option that really nobody has talked about would be, if we don't like the LTs that are out there in FA and we don't like the prospects of this year's draft class, we could try to trade for a premium LT. That would probably require at least our 1st round and one of our 3rd round picks this year, and possibly a mid-round pick next year cause teams don't just let good starting LTs walk away.
Our 1st and the lower 3rd this year, and next year's 3rd for, say, Jake Long or Joe Thomas. How would you guys feel about that?
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Our 1st and the lower 3rd this year, and next year's 3rd for, say, Jake Long or Joe Thomas. How would you guys feel about that?
Maybe Tice coughs up his Super Bowl tickets too! ;D
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Dont get me wrong but I might do that and you might but I cant believe the other team does that deal.
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Exactly and that's why our 3 options at LT are basically
1) draft a guy in the 1st round and hope he can play right away
2) go balls-out to get the best LT available in FA (not even knowing who, if anyone, that might be)
3) go with Webb for another year and hope Cutler survives the season
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Exactly and that's why our 3 options at LT are basically
1) draft a guy in the 1st round and hope he can play right away
2) go balls-out to get the best LT available in FA (not even knowing who, if anyone, that might be)
3) go with Webb for another year and hope Cutler survives the season
How about 4) Trade up and get a good LOT. What would happen if Emery went balls to the wall, traded up to 2, and grabbed Kalil? Hands down stud to protect Cutler for as long as he will be a Bear. The cost, hard to say. I still like the mock that had us trade up to 15 to grab Martin from Stanford.
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Well, the #2 pick is gonna go to RGIII, not Kalil. And the cost to get there (especially from 19) would be outrageous. I'm hearing the Skins would be giving their 1st, 2nd and 3rd this year and their 1st and 2nd next year just to move from 6 to 2. Next come the Vikings at 3, who covet Kalil and certainly wouldn't allow us to get him. So any discussion involving the Bears drafting Kalil is simply a non-starter, IMO.
In fact, any tradeup that costs us more than the higher of our 3rd draft picks in addition to our 1st, is not worth it IMO. Exactly how many spots that buys us, I don't know.
Of course, if we hadn't won that last game against the Vikings we would have been in position for Martin (or DeCastro) without trading up at all, most likely.
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I believe Buffalo is at 10 and there is no way we are going that high for Martin. 15 I would go for, thats only 4 spots
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Well, if the Bills draft Martin it would probably be cause they let Bell go in FA, and if they keep Bell they won't need Martin. So the Bills don't concern me a great deal, not to mention most mock drafts I've seen have them taking a pass rusher at 10 anyway.
The teams ahead of us most likely to grab Martin would be the Chiefs (11), Cards (13), or possibly the Chargers (18). Of which one of those teams may very likely value DeCastro over Martin so essentially that's only 2 teams we have to worry about.
Also don't forget that Riley Reiff is in the mix and while his future in the NFL is likely at RT, he is rated in most mocks to go ahead of Martin. So, the farther Reiff falls, the better it could be for our prospects to get Martin.
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I worry more about Jerry Jones and the Cowgirls. He is a massive trader and if he wanted Martin, you can bank on the Cowgirls moving up for Martin.
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Yeah but the Cowboys have serious, dreadful needs in the D-Backfield such that I've been seeing a CB mocked to them pretty regularly.
If the Cowboys do go OL, well their needs are more on the interior. They pick at 14, which is where they could take DeCastro and hit almost the perfect delta of value and need.
Sure Jerrah could deal up for Martin but I really don't think he will.
One thing that's becoming really apparent is that that Game 16 win over the Vikings could loom large. I hope we're not sitting there on the 26th watching a slew of quality players at need positions go off the board between 13 (where we could have been drafting) and 19 (where we are).
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Here is more about Bell from profootballfocus.com
Demetrius Bell, Buffalo Bills
Age as of 1st September, 2012: 28
2011 Grade: +6.8
Key Stat: Allowed pressure only once every 28 pass plays in 2011, up from 13.6 in 2010.
Behind the Number: Playing under a restricted free agent tag in 2011, Bell looked to be putting together the classic “contract season” performance until it was curtailed by injury. To his credit, Bell didn’t slip into poor performances of the past in a three-game stint at the end of the season, but is 401 snaps of true quality enough for a team to invest in him long term? Bell was Jason Peters’ replacement after he bolted for Philadelphia, but he was slow to repay the Bills’ faith in him. He has taken large strides since his first season as a starter in 2009 drastically reducing his pressures allowed and penalties conceded through 2010 and 2011. Another big stride in 2012 would see Bell join the league’s Top 10 left tackles. If multiple teams see that as a real possibility Bell’s market value could rise when free agency opens.
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Really hard to peg how high Martin could go until after the Stanford Pro Day. With him being sick at the combine that whole thing was pretty much a non-event for him.
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Nav -That was exactly what I was saying. If you are looking at drafting the 3rd best LT in the draft or Decastro, go Decastro.
Regarding Poe, it wasn't like he was being hyped like Suh coming in to the draft. Everyone knew Suh had the goods. Everyone knew Fairley was a thug and I hope he never produces, but he will manage to injure his share of players during his career with his cheap shots. Where did Poe come from? Here's your answer, Memphis. 2nd team, all conference usa. 2nd team. That scares me... He just made a ton of money at the combine, give me the highly productive college player please, not some combine freak of nature.
http://wvgazette.com/Sports/201112060232
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More on Poe. Eye popping for sure. 33 tackles. 8.5 tackles for loss 1 sack
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1717351
I think we will be hugely disappointed if we take this guy, with other proven players on the board. This is a reach of epic proportions. And I have heard he is working his way into the top 10. Thank God
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Lets say that Emery is kind of fuucking around on draft day ...
some moves were made before the draft.
We dont know who.
Thats the beauty of it right there.
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I think we will be hugely disappointed if we take this guy, with other proven players on the board.
I feel the exact same way, only about Kendall Wright.
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http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-falcons/charles-has-tough-time-1373627.html
6'2 250, ran terrible 40s at his Pro Day, and can't block very well. And this is the TE the Bears are supposed to take in the 2nd round (according to the mock drafts).
Seriously? If we wanted a short slow TE that can't block we should just bring back Malamaleuna.
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If this guy's mock draft comes to pass we will continue having the shortest pass catchers in the league and Cutler will continue taking abuse trying to find them.
http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2012.php
He has us taking WR Kendall Wright (5'10) in the 1st and TE Orson Charles (6'2) in the 2nd.
This would be a terrible draft for the Bears. Lack of size notwithstanding, these guys both had medicore to poor combines, compounded in Charles' case by a bad Pro Day as well. I hope Emery is paying attention to these things and won't just be drafting "names" based on college rep cause I have serious questions about either of these guys translating to impact players at the next level.
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Another mock draft with us taking a TE in the 2nd round. Only this one has us taking Fleener from Stanford.
I don't get it with these mock draft guys. We have a lot of needs that warrant a 2nd round pick but TE isn't one of them. Kellen Davis and the Adams kid from Purdue will do just fine for us, at least for this season till we can get some other areas shored up.
Not to mention this year's TE class in the draft is not strong. There's not a guy in the bunch that warrants more than a low 2nd if even that.
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If we take a position other than WR in the first Fleener would make a lot of sense in the second.
I see him rated first round and he may be a lot more productive than any receiver we would find in the second.
It doesn't matter what position the receptions come from. Pats proved that.
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I dunno about that. We tried that whole TE-in-place-of-a-big WR thing with Olsen and that was pretty much a major fail.
OTOH maybe we just had the wrong TE. Or the wrong OC. Or the wrong system. Or all of the above.
Bottom line is, if the 2012 Bears aren't able to put up 27 to 31 points a game pretty much at will, we won't be going to the playoffs. I have a bad feeling that our defense has peaked. They were completely dominated in several games last year (Saints, Packers twice, Lions once), they were not able to pick up the slack after Cutler went down, and Peppers was not an impact player down the stretch. With our core players getting old I expect that unit to tail-off pretty dramatically if not this year, then next. Not to mention that every OC in the league has solved Lovie's scheme... which means we need to ramp-up our offense to compensate. So whatever that means in terms of personnel and scheme that we need to bring in here, that's what has to happen.
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Good.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/09/orson-charles-top-tight-end-nfl-draft-prospect-arrested-for-dui/
This is a guy I didn't want, who some mocks had us taking in the 2nd. Maybe Emery crosses him off the list now.
Another idiot like Alshon Jeffery who just doesn't appear to be taking his NFL opportunity very seriously.
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http://msn.foxsports.com/video/shows/nfl-draft?vid=06f2f20f-0dd1-4d01-a71c-f874b4a71a15
Billick breaks down the Bears draft needs.
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Glazer: Rams, Redskins strike deal for No. 2 pick
Posted by Mike Florio on March 9, 2012, 10:29 PM EST
The Dolphins had better offer Peyton Manning more money, because their Plan B has now evaporated.
Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reports that the Rams and the Redskins have agreed to terms on a deal that will send the second overall pick in the 2012 draft to Washington. The Redskins undoubtedly will pick quarterback Robert Griffin III. (Or, at the very worst, Andrew Luck.)
Glazer says that the team will swap first-round picks in 2012, with St. Louis taking the No. 6 pick. The Rams also get two future first-round picks and additional selections, one of which is believed to be a second-rounder.
The trade can’t be finalized until the new league year begins on Tuesday at 4:00 p.m. ET.
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What a haul!
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yeah, I thought the same thing when SD raked NY over the coals for Eli but NY has 2 SB wins and SD can't make the playoffs consitently. I figure it will swing the other way for Wash though, they're digging a huge hole and STL might not get everything they need this year but they are stacking the closet for the future.
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Is Washington gonna be that good so soon? Those picks might be decent picks
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The Rams played this perfectly. If they miss out on Blackmon at 6 they can still take Claiborne or Reiff and fill a need position with a Day One starter. They also now hold 2 of top 6 picks in the 2nd round which gives them plenty of ammo to trade back up into the lower or even mid 1st.
On top of which they now have 2 first round picks in the 2013 and 2014 which could come in very handy if at some point it becomes clear Bradford is not the answer at QB.
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Well we'll see those "starters" when they come to Soldier Field this season.
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There's also the chance that if the Vikings take Blackmon instead of Kalil, the Rams could still wind up with Kalil at 6. That would be sick.
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Green Bay - Some of his highlights on YouTube were captured by a camcorder, not ESPN. They're grainy and at strange angles, far from high-definition.
Prairie View A&M's Adrian Hamilton is one extreme example. The defensive end went to Oklahoma State and Texas Tech but couldn't gain a scholarship at either school. Eventually he ended up in the Southwestern Athletic Conference and had 22 sacks as a senior.
He's been ignored and passed over repeatedly. Hamilton was not invited to the recent NFL scouting combine and projects as a late-round pick in the April draft.
But this is all why small-school guys succeed, he says. They play hungry, starved.
"You're behind the 8-ball," Hamilton said. "All the odds are against you so you're coming into the NFL with a chip on your shoulder."
And Green Bay Packers general manager Ted Thompson is always on the hunt for these prospects.
In Thompson's seven drafts with the Packers, 25 of 68 selections have involved players from "small schools." That is, schools not from a power conference (ACC, Big Ten, SEC, Big East, Pacific 12, Big 12). That 37% rate is much higher than any other team in the NFC North over the same span. Chicago has taken 13 small-school prospects out of its 53 picks (25%). Minnesota has taken 13 of its 48 picks (27%). And Detroit has drafted 15 in its last 51 picks (29%).
Again, it would be no surprise if the Packers took chances on players other teams do not. It's been a Thompson trademark.
"I think you absolutely have to treat a draft choice, especially early in the draft, as a long-term investment," Thompson said at the combine. "And the best policy, in my view, is to take the best player because it gives you the best chance at getting a return on your investment."
Green Bay doesn't swing and miss on these picks, either. Accumulating picks and casting a wide net over intriguing small-schoolers has produced results.
Of those 25 draftees are a three-time Pro Bowl safety (Nick Collins, Bethune-Cookman); a two-time Pro Bowl wide receiver (Greg Jennings, Western Michigan); another weapon at receiver (James Jones, San Jose State); a long-term starter at right guard (Josh Sitton, Central Florida); a starting running back (James Starks, Buffalo); and a starting left tackle (Marshall Newhouse, Texas Christian).
Spotting talent isn't easy. These prospects have faced inferior competition their entire collegiate careers. Numbers are inflated. So Thompson and his scouts surely monitor how they perform at the combine and in postseason all-star games.
Among others, Coastal Carolina cornerback Josh Norman made noise. During practice week of the East-West Shrine Game he intercepted six passes. He also played in the Senior Bowl.
Norman didn't get any Division I scholarship offers out of high school and finished college with 35 pass breakups and 13 interceptions. At the combine, Norman shrugged and said he "slipped through the cracks and crevices."
"I would say you have a little more of a chip on your shoulder, more than anything else," said Norman, who also had the fifth-best broad jump at his position in Indianapolis. "Everything you do on that level is so much harder than up at that level. Every week, you have to almost have a perfect game.
"Anyone can go to the big schools, and it would be easy. Pretty much everything is handed to you."
There are several small-school options in this draft - in the early and later rounds - at positions of need for the Packers. Marshall's Vinny Curry, who had 23 sacks in two years but also ran 4.98 seconds in the 40-yard dash, is a possibility at No. 28. Troy's Jonathan Massaquoi, and his 34 1/8-inch arms, is a wild card. The native of Monrovia, Liberia, could go anywhere in the middle rounds. And then, there are always players worth taking a flier on late, guys who began their collegiate careers at big schools before transferring down.
One week before Hamilton reported to Oklahoma State, he learned he'd be a "gray shirt." Thus, he would need to pay his own way for a semester. After one year, Hamilton decided to transfer to Texas Tech as a preferred walk-on and reunite with Michael Crabtree, his high school teammate. And while he was "dismissed" by the team, Hamilton said he left after one year because he couldn't afford school. He had a daughter to support.
Hamilton went to a community college, earned his associate degree and then finally got a scholarship at Prairie View A&M.
He was used everywhere - defensive end, outside linebacker and inside linebacker - to rush the quarterback. His base position was end, but the defense also switched to a 3-4 at times.
In the pros, Hamilton views himself as a 3-4 edge rusher. All season, he studied Packers linebacker Clay Matthews on film.
"He is a phenomenal athlete," Hamilton said. "To be able to watch him, learn from him and play beside him would be a great dream of mine. . . just his pass-rushing moves. There have been many times this year I'd look at him and see how he bends the corner, gets low and bull rushes 330-pound linemen. Just his motor. He has a different mentality."
If (or when) the Packers add a Curry, a Massaquoi or a Hamilton to outside linebacker, he won't be alone. Four of the six players at the position are from small schools. Thompson also makes a habit of signing prospects from smaller conferences after the draft, such as Jamari Lattimore (Middle Tennessee), Frank Zombo (Central Michigan) and Vic So'oto (Brigham Young). He values projects to develop.
Maybe Thompson refuses to provide any hints at all over these next two months.
But one guarantee? He'll keep searching for the next Collins, the next Newhouse.
These prospects do boast a distinct attitude.
"It should be a bitter taste in my mouth to get to the top level," Hamilton said. "I want to show that anybody that's in front of me, I'm better than them.
"Just because you're from a small school doesn't mean you have a small talent."
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Well, you had to wait until March 13th.
It's open season.
Halas Hall strikes first in a big way.
Thank you Leonard Marshall! Or was it Wilber Marshall?
Or was it the Marshall Plan all along?
Whatever Marshall it was ... it works.
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Ok GBN mock now has Riley Reiff falling to us at 19. Martin and Hill are still available. To get the #2 OT is a pipe dream, but still how cool would that be?
http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html
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Pipe dream, no kidding. Reiff is the consensus #2 OT after Kalil, a guy who may be better equipped than Martin to start at LT from Day One, and a Top 10-12 pick in virtually every mock draft I've seen up till now. It would take a ridiculous turn of events for him to fall to 19 but on draft day, anything can happen.
Reiff, Martin or Hill? That would be a tough choice to make... but a great problem to have.
That being said, I think if either Reiff or Martin get down to 13 or 14, some teams are gonna start looking at trading up.
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if any of the top 3 OT are there at 15, we gotta trade up.
According to the draft chart, our 1st and 3rd = #15.
I don't like trading up in the 1st but that would fill our need much more than a guy we get in the 3rd.
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So we'd be out of the 3rd round altogether then, which would stink since there is likely to be good value in that round especially at WR and DB. But OTOH if we get a guy that can keep Cutler's jersey clean from Day One and for the next 6-7 years, it's worth it.
It would just make that 2nd round pick all-important then cause the best we'd probably be walking away with from this draft would be two starters. Or 3, if you count Marshall. Maybe that's enough to get us over the top in our conference but based on what I saw last year, I kinda doubt it.
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Just read the scouts are concerned that Riefs arms are only 33 1/4. Isnt that the problem Chris Williams had, too short arms???
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Just read the scouts are concerned that Riefs arms are only 33 1/4. Isnt that the problem Chris Williams had, too short arms???
Absolutely, and I also read he is more suited to RT than LT which we really dont need as badly as a LT
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if any of the top 3 OT are there at 15, we gotta trade up.
According to the draft chart, our 1st and 3rd = #15.
I don't like trading up in the 1st but that would fill our need much more than a guy we get in the 3rd.
I definitely agree. You trade up.
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I don't trade up for any OT that we are not brain-dead certain can play LT and play it well from Day One.
If there are reservations in that regard about Reiff then let him fall to us at 19 and if he can play LT great and if not then we didn't overpay for a RT. And even then you'd have to question that decision if it meant passing on a WR like Hill or Floyd, or a DE like Mercilus.
To give up our 3rd round pick and then find out the OT we traded up for isn't any better of a LT than Webb would be a huge fail.
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are there any workouts before the draft?
I'm just curious if Tice gets to work out Carimi, Williams and Webb at LT before the draft.
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I thought the Bears had an OTA sometime in April. Not sure on that though.
It would be good to know the recovery status of Carimi and Chris Williams, no question.
What I want to know is if Stanford had their Pro Day yet. Jonathan Martin is an unknown quantity until and unless that happened.
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Agree we need to see how Martin measures up. But he did protect Andrew Luck for 3 years, so unless he is super fat and out of shape, he should be good.
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Yeah and the thing with Martin is, he didn't miss most of the Combine cause he was injured, he missed it cause of food poisoning.
So it's not like we'd be drafting a guy that's still on the mend from last year.
The other thing you have to keep in mind is that Martin played LT next to David DeCastro, the consensus best interior OL in this year's draft class and by some estimations the best OG to come out since Steve Hutchinson. So given that we don't have a LG on the Bears who is close to that caliber, Martin would be having to carry more of the load himself than he did in college.
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I found this kinda screwy:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-smith-checks-out-texas-lb-robinson-20120320,0,7015261.story
Why are we out chasing LBs unless we are trading Briggs? We have greater needs than a LB in the 2nd or 3rd
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We have greater needs than a LB in the 2nd or 3rd
I agree 100%.
Why create a hole just to fill a hole? Keep Briggs even if he's bitchy and make him play out his deal. Teams know he likes to gripe about his contract so that makes him less appealing in trade. I don't think we could get more than a 3rd round pick for him and we're certainly not gonna find a Pro Bowl caliber OLB at that position of the draft.
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I thought the Bears had an OTA sometime in April. Not sure on that though.
It would be good to know the recovery status of Carimi and Chris Williams, no question.
What I want to know is if Stanford had their Pro Day yet. Jonathan Martin is an unknown quantity until and unless that happened.
I asked the same question before and got no answer. And YES, its a big deal to watch that pro day to answer a lot of questions
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At some point LB has to take a back seat to OL in the first three rounds.
Not a LB until the fourth ... and is LB even needed this high in the draft?
Still go Floyd as WR with the first.
Best OL in the second.
CB/S in the third.
CB/TE in the fourth.
LB in the fifth.
Marshall - Bennett - Floyd.
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I looked up the Stanford blog. I found where Luck had his pro day but no mentin of a Martin pro day. I also see where some prognosticators such as Mel Kiper have downgraded Martin. If he doesnt have a pro day I would expect him to fall to us at 19. Too many questionmarks on the kid not to have a pro day to silence the doubters.
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I looked up the Stanford blog. I found where Luck had his pro day but no mentin of a Martin pro day. I also see where some prognosticators such as Mel Kiper have downgraded Martin. If he doesnt have a pro day I would expect him to fall to us at 19. Too many questionmarks on the kid not to have a pro day to silence the doubters.
We only get a few chances like this to come out number one when it comes to winning SUPERBOWLS.
Our cards have been dealt with Cutler and now Campbell.
Everything has to be revolved around what is going to be. :D
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I looked up the Stanford blog. I found where Luck had his pro day but no mentin of a Martin pro day. I also see where some prognosticators such as Mel Kiper have downgraded Martin. If he doesnt have a pro day I would expect him to fall to us at 19. Too many questionmarks on the kid not to have a pro day to silence the doubters.
I'm starting to wonder what's Martin's deal. Some scouts are saying he's the 2nd best LT in the draft, others are saying he may only be good enough to play RT (or at least will need to work there the first couple of seasons). Some say he's really a mauler, others question his aggressiveness and commitment. And through all this we don't have a Combine (or apparently, a Pro Day) to really determine whose assessment is correct. In other words, Martin is putting himself out to be an unknown quantity... i.e., a risky choice... and intelligent GMs don't like risk, especially when a 1st round draft pick is in the balance.
The biggest challenge in scouting O-Linemen is that the OL is such a collective effort. On a really good OL the whole is more than the sum of its parts but that also means that sometimes the parts aren't as good as they may appear. It wouldn't surprise me if one or two of those highly touted Wisconsin O-Linemen underperformed expectations in the pro's for that exact reason. Martin's behavior is starting to make me wonder if he's more the product of the Stanford system, his QB and his LG than his inherent ability and that's what he's trying to keep covered up.
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I looked up the Stanford blog. I found where Luck had his pro day but no mentin of a Martin pro day. I also see where some prognosticators such as Mel Kiper have downgraded Martin. If he doesnt have a pro day I would expect him to fall to us at 19. Too many questionmarks on the kid not to have a pro day to silence the doubters.
I'm starting to wonder what's Martin's deal. Some scouts are saying he's the 2nd best LT in the draft, others are saying he may only be good enough to play RT (or at least will need to work there the first couple of seasons). Some say he's really a mauler, others question his aggressiveness and commitment. And through all this we don't have a Combine (or apparently, a Pro Day) to really determine whose assessment is correct. In other words, Martin is putting himself out to be an unknown quantity... i.e., a risky choice... and intelligent GMs don't like risk, especially when a 1st round draft pick is in the balance.
The biggest challenge in scouting O-Linemen is that the OL is such a collective effort. On a really good OL the whole is more than the sum of its parts but that also means that sometimes the parts aren't as good as they may appear. It wouldn't surprise me if one or two of those highly touted Wisconsin O-Linemen underperformed expectations in the pro's for that exact reason. Martin's behavior is starting to make me wonder if he's more the product of the Stanford system, his QB and his LG than his inherent ability and that's what he's trying to keep covered up.
YAP,
The new guys in town calling the shots. I'd like to think after the Marshall trade and the Campbell signing,
we let the new shot callers at Halas Hall get the feel of the field.
Still ....
If I'm Emery I'm going WR & OL in the first two rounds.
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Or maybe Martin is crazy like a fox, allowing his stock to slide on purpose so he goes to a better team.
With the new rookie salary structure, slipping a few spots still costs you money but nowhere near like it did before.
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Or maybe Martin is crazy like a fox, allowing his stock to slide on purpose so he goes to a better team.
With the new rookie salary structure, slipping a few spots still costs you money but nowhere near like it did before.
The main idea is to field a winning team.
The rest is buullshiit.
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Or maybe Martin is crazy like a fox, allowing his stock to slide on purpose so he goes to a better team.
With the new rookie salary structure, slipping a few spots still costs you money but nowhere near like it did before.
Thats what I am thinking, crazy like a fox.
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I wouldn't expect the combine or the pro days to help/hurt OL as much as some other positions.
Outside of maybe bench press and their measurements I'm not sure how much you gain more than watching their film.
I guess the interviews are important also.......
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I wouldn't expect the combine or the pro days to help/hurt OL as much as some other positions.
Outside of maybe bench press and their measurements I'm not sure how much you gain more than watching their film.
I guess the interviews are important also.......
The wikpedia / wonderlic test may prevail also. :D
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If Urlachers recovery lags, keep the name Luke Kuechly in mind. He's a MLB that a lot of locks had going to the Eagles but the Eagles traded for a MLB today. So since there's not a lot of other teams needing MLBs, he could fall. Not a position a lot of Bears fans would expect or favor with the 1st but we really have no backup for 54 and Kuechly is supposed to be pretty good.
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I think you all are giving Martin too much credit for thinking he is tanking to fall to a better team. Seriously? If that truly were his ploy, that would make me question his intelligence...
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Yaps - Would definitely agree about your "sum of the parts" observation on the oline. Webb's first game against Jared Allen was solid, what changed later in the season? Allen's motivation? Doubt it. Webb regressed? Perhaps. Remove Chris, insert Edwin? Likely. I think Chris Williams loss was a lot bigger than we would admit, from reading a lot of posts on here it seems we could line up JAG and be okay at left guard. Our best oline (can't include Carimi being hurt) was Webb, C. Williams, Garza, Spencer, and Louis. Pretty sure that was the line during our win streak and it didn't hurt to have Cutler and Forte healthy.
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Remove Chris, insert Edwin? Likely.
Completely agree. Chris Williams is average at best, but Edwin Williams flat-out sucks. Not as bad as Omiyale, but that's not saying much. If you're cut by the Redskins (which E. Williams was), you're a pretty sorry player. Emery could probably find an OG in the 4th round who would give us better depth there than #70.
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Williams is very good at the pulling and movement that Tice schemes.
Not so good atdrive blocking. or head to head passs blocking
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Williams is very good at the pulling and movement that Tice schemes.
That's why I'm thinking Jonathan Martin might be high on the Bears wish list. What you described in Williams is what has also been identified as the strong suit in Martin's game. And like Williams, where Martin gets in trouble is handling speed rushers one-on-one.
Basically the read I'm getting on Martin is that he's Chris Williams with longer arms and a cleaner medical record. Whether that's a guy who's worth spending our 1st round pick on (and maybe more), I'll leave to Emery's judgment.
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Apparently the Stanford studs will be on display tomorrow:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/griffin-luck-pro-days-will-be-televised-live-on-multiple-channels/
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Stanfords pro day is tom.
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The way that blog was written I read I would have sworn that Luck's pro day was last Thursday and not tomorrow. But finally some news about Martin and his pro day. I hope we learn something.
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Kind of a 2-edged sword.
If Martin has a great Pro Day, he probably goes up a few notches on the board and out of our reach (barring an expensive trade-up).
If he sucks... having already done nothing positive at the combine... then do we still want him even if he's at 19?
Am really wondering why we had to win that last game against the Vikings. We could have been picking 13 instead of 19. Instead we are drafting the absolute lowest of all the 8-8 teams. Typical Bears luck.
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We should have finished 7-9. Correct.
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We should have definitely sat Urlacher for that final game. He wouldn't be rehabbing a knee right now if we had.
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Was he healthy going into the last game last season? I don't recall but if he was healthy I don't have an issue with him playing. Injuries are part of the game. But if he was injured going into the last game then I agree with your point.
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Mock Draft on PFT has Bears taking Nick Perry from USC... with Hill and Martin both still on the board and Martin going to the Lions at 23.
That would be a disaster. Whole lotta busts been comin out of SoCal the last few years, not to mention passing on both Hill and Martin?
The other thing that doesn't make a lot of sense about that pick is Perry is way undersized to be a 4-3 DE at 6'3 250. He's really a 3-4 rush OLB who would be totally out of place in Marinelli's scheme.
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it would be interesting if we did a Rosie Colvin thing with a guy like Perry.
Let him play SLB on running downs and DE on passing downs, mixing it up here and there.
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It would be interesting if we did a Rosie Colvin thing with a guy like Perry.
Let him play SLB on running downs and DE on passing downs, mixing it up here and there.
That's an interesting thought but I don't think Marinelli is smart enough to pull something like that off. Keep in mind he's not even a proper DC, he's just an overrated DL coach that got promoted to DC cause no one else would take the gig. Our D has been amazingly average on his watch despite having a preponderance of the draft every year going to defensive players.
Now if Emery is hedging his bets on Lovie and wants to start bringing in guys who could potentially play a 3-4, then Perry would make more sense... but again, with guys like Hill and Martin still on the board it would seem like the need/value delta points a lot more in those guys' direction.
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I think I would take Martin.
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I would screem bloody murder if Martin was on the board and we passed. That would not make any sense.
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A commenter on the Tribune page speculated that signing Bush could free Emery to trade Forte to Cleveland for their #22 pick overall.
Would very highly doubt Forte draws that kind of pick but if it did...
#19 - Martin (everybody hope he has a bad Pro Day today ;D )
#22 - Hill
I love Forte and all he's done for this team but man... that's a tempting scenario.
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Trading Forte? This is the part of the NFL that I hate. The guy has easily 3 or 4 more productive seasons in him.
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Man I love Forte too, but if we could trade Forte for Cleveland's #22 I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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If not for Matt Forte the Bears would have been lucky to win 4 games last year. A guy with that kind of value to his team needs to be acknowledged, respected, rewarded and retained. But things just don't seem to be headed in a good direction right now at least as far as a long-term scenario with him goes.
I would love for this to be the year we get to see what Forte can really do, 100% healthy, playing for a sane OC, behind a good, healthy OL and with a passing game dangerous enough to keep teams from stacking the box.
With this whole contract thing hanging over everyone's head though you really have to question if he'll be highly motivated. And if Emery senses this thing is headed toward impasse and a team makes him an offer he can't refuse...
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We could end up with Martin at #19 and the DE from Illinois at #22
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All I know is if Hill is still there at 19 and we pass on him we better pray the Packers or Vikings don't get him.
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Recent #22 picks:
2011 Indianapolis Colts Castonzo, Anthony OT Boston College
2010 Denver Broncos Thomas, Demaryius WR Georgia Tech
2009 Minnesota Vikings Harvin, Percy WR Florida
2008 Dallas Cowboys Jones, Felix RB Arkansas F/CLE
2007 Cleveland Browns Quinn, Brady QB Notre Dame F/DAL
I don't do the trade - Forte is too valuable to our offense.
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All I know is if Hill is still there at 19 and we pass on him we better pray the Packers or Vikings don't get him.
Yeah, the Packers offense is definitely in need of more weapons - especially at WR.....huh? I think they are looking for a pass rush.
As for the Vikings - do they have a 2nd first rounder? Hill will not make it into the 2nd round. Plus they still have Ponder at QB...
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I would rather leave the tag on him and then tag him again next year then trade him or let him walk if neccesary.
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Watch the Patriots get Hill. That would make me sick.
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All I know is if Hill is still there at 19 and we pass on him we better pray the Packers or Vikings don't get him.
If Hill is there he'll be a Bear. I strongly believe that.
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If it comes down to Hill or Martin, I think Hill will be the pick.
OTOH if it comes down to Hill or a highly rated DE like Mercilus or Coples, I think it's too close to call. Emery may figure he's done enough for the offense via the Marshall trade and FA and now it's time to give the D some love.
Given that the last three pass catchers the Bears drafted in the 1st round have not turned out real well (Curtis Conway, David Terrell and Greg Olsen), Hill would certainly be under the microscope from the get-go.
I haven't heard anything about how Martin did at the Pro Day but it seems like almost everything we've been hearing out of Halas Hall points to a pick other than OT in the 1st round.
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draft smoke screen.
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draft smoke screen.
Possibly... but once Kalil, Reiff and Martin go off the board there's not another OT worth a 1st round pick and any team who takes one would be making a major reach.
I'm sure that Emery & Co. have a plan in case one of those 3 OTs falls into range (15 at the highest), but I have to assume their "Most Likely" draft day scenario does not have any of those 3 still on the board.
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If it comes down to Hill or Martin, I think Hill will be the pick.
OTOH if it comes down to Hill or a highly rated DE like Mercilus or Coples, I think it's too close to call. Emery may figure he's done enough for the offense via the Marshall trade and FA and now it's time to give the D some love.
Given that the last three pass catchers the Bears drafted in the 1st round have not turned out real well (Curtis Conway, David Terrell and Greg Olsen),
I thought Conway and Olsen did very well as a Bear. Terrell let his ego get in the way unfortunately.
Berrian, Booker, and Marcus Robinson did all right.
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Berrian, Booker, and Marcus Robinson did all right.
In terms of value those guys were actually better than the 1st rounders cause they gave us as much production or more at a much lower price.
IIRC Berrian was a 3rd round pick and Booker and Robinson were drafted in the 4th.
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Yap I dont want to tick you off but if the choice at #19 came down to Hill or Martin, after trading for Marshall a true #1 receiver, to draft Hill instead of Martin, a true need I would have hard time justifying that move. I dont think Hill is starting material at this point in his career. He is pretty raw yet. I could swallow a DE or even a CB, but we cant continue to pass on quality linemen year after year like Angelo did. Our injury situation just screams LT.
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This Hill guys sounds tempting. I recall in the Benson draft I was all excited about Troy Williamson - he was shooting up the draft board with his 4.3 speed.
Hill could be the next Williamson or the next Randy Moss...
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Matt for godsake take the 7.7 mil.
Bush is going to extend your career.
Jesus H. fuuuk ... get over the goddamn ego already.
Forte - Bush - Bell is the power trio of the NFC Norf.
Rodgers - Matthews - Ponder, are going to be on the sidelines watching you beat them.
7.7mil. a year means you can only go off to the Caribean two times a year instead of three.
What ... are you scared of Bush because he may threaten you?
Then maybe you should earn your money.
Well one thing the Bush signing does is Emery shouldnt waste any picks in the 6th round on goofy RB "projects".
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Forte has been offered twice the signing bonus and pay per year then Bush got and turned it down. How can we feel sorry for the guy? Seriously?
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Forte has been offered twice the signing bonus and pay per year then Bush got and turned it down. How can we feel sorry for the guy? Seriously?
He feels disrespected at 7.7 million a year.
I would too at my job. :D ;D ;) :o :P ::) ???
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The Bears made that clear Wednesday with their presence at Baylor's pro day in Waco, Texas. The club, represented by coach Lovie Smith and receivers coach Darryl Drake, watched receiver Kendall Wright improve on a disappointing performance at the NFL Combine (a 4.61 in the 40-yard dash) in Indianapolis by running a 4.43-second 40 that validated the blazing speed displayed by the prospect on game film.
Wright is scheduled for a pre-draft visit in early April with the Bears.
Obviously playing speed is much different than timed speed. But Wright's drastic improvement upon his combine time could push him past Notre Dame's Michael Floyd -- another potential Bears target -- who ran a 4.47 in Indianapolis for the No. 2 spot at his position behind Oklahoma State's Justin Blackmon.
Whether Wright lands in Chicago remains to be seen. The Bears hold the 19th pick in the first round, and there's a distinct possibility that Wright could still be there once they are on the clock. That's why the Bears were so well-represented Wednesday at Baylor's pro day, and their attendance means there's a strong possibility they are looking to add to the position despite the addition of Marshall.
This is good news for the Bears - maybe someone with a pick less than 19 takes him and pushes up some of the other guys we like to 19.
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I'm really concerned about our D. Peppers, Urlacher, Tillman and even Briggs are getting up in years.
They could all go from playing right around pro-bowl levels to retired in one season.
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Yea we need to address that. Problem is that Angie left us bare in the cupboard so we've got to address the most pressing needs this year and then maybe in the next couple years get back to trying to address the D and depth there....
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I think in order to restock what JA missed we have to go BPA.
getting Brandon Marshall already makes our O better than it was last year.
Earl Bennett being healthy helps us as well.
I would feel better about the O if we get an OL or WR early but I would not reach over a good CB/DE prospect for an OL.
The good thing about LB and cover 2 corners is you can usually get good quality in rounds 2-4.
Filling our depth at DE will likely be harder to do.
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I agree BPA - as long as he's the best WR, LT, or DE available.
I think after those 3 positions I'd target a CB first then start looking at LBs, safeties and another o-lineman or wide receiver.
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Interesting, nothing at all about Martin at Stanfords pro day. Read about Luck, DeCastro and the TE. I wonder how he did?
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I think Mayock reported from Stanford last night on the pro-day. He was really gushing about DeCastro - the guy does look like a bull.
I don't feel he fills our biggest needs but I'm almost convinced to take him at 19 if he's there.
The only thing I recall hearing about Martin is that he may need some work on his pass blocking and might be a year away, but that may have been from a draft website. Not sure if it was from Mayock or not.
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I watched a short snippet on NFLN at lunch.....
I don't remember who the guys were but one said he wasn't strong enough yet and needed another year.
The other guy said he has a sliding scale, the better his feet, the less important pure strength was.
that guy said "and he can dance" meaning he has really good feet.
I got the feeling that he can start and do pretty well this year but after a year or two of strength training he can be really good.
Both of those guys also said DeCastro was excellent but I think both said they never take interior linemen in the first round that they would only take OT in the first round that you can get the interior guys later.
One mentioned DeCastro is the better talent at his position, most ready to play but that Martin would likely get drafted first.
They also said that Martin should get drafted in the 20's but will likely go higher.
sounds like if he is there at our pick he would be a safe bet but might look like a rookie at times this year.
By next year he should be pretty solid.
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I saw one mock that showed DeCastro going 18 to San Diego
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I think I read that they worked out DeCastro at center also at his proday.
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Hopefully, he lasts that long. Cowboys did sign 2 veteran FA guards but I don't think either are household names and they do have several 2nd year guys with some experience returning but I'd think DeCastro would be a great pick for them unless they want to go d-line or CB.
If the Cowboys take DeCastro early then might San Diego go after Martin? Or our their needs strictly interior line?
Lately, mocks I've seen both Martin and Hill are available and some have Floyd moving up before our pick. Same is true with Illini DE Mercilus.
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I think this is so crazy. Its so unreasonable its gotta be almost desperation. This guy sounds more like a 3/4 linebacker.
Lovie Smith made the trek to West Virginia last week to take a look at Bruce Irvin and get to know the defensive end a little bit better.
The Chicago Bears aren’t done doing their homework on Irvin after watching him in his pro day. An NFL source told the Tribune Irvin will make a pre-draft visit to Halas Hall on April 16.
Irvin had 22 ½ sacks in two seasons with the Moutaineers. The 6-2 ½, 245-pounder ran the 40-yard dash in 4.43 seconds to turn heads at the NFL Scouting Combine last month. But Irvin said he played between 225 and 230 pounds in school and he would need to bulk up to be even a situational pass rusher for the Bears.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-de-irvin-will-visit-bears-before-draft-20120323,0,2702661.story
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Yeah, he'd have to put on some weight to play DE full time or maybe they think he can play SLB. On 3rd down he slides to LDE, Idonijie slides to DT, and the nickel back comes in replacing the DT.
You know, kind of like when Colvin used to do that.
Don't get hung up on a guys weight and his ability to rush the passer. It's all about leverage and explosion.
And we're not talking first round - probably 2nd.
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Personally I'd kinda hope for 3rd or 4th. What if he played stand up LB and replaced Briggs and Briggs got traded?
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WLB may be a bit of a stretch for a guy that has played with his hand down. And a trade of Briggs - I'm not sure what that would get you at this stage in his career - a mid-rounder?
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Kendall Wright isn't a good fit for the Bears. Would rather have another big body if we're gonna spend a pick there. Not to mention Big XII pass defenses are far from NFL caliber.
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QB-WR-RB ... Emery has them signed.
One more WR in the draft ... Floyd.
Emery should go on to OL with the second.
28th against the pass ... CB/S with the third.
The fourth pick in the draft after the angelo era ...
fuuuck ....
I dunno.
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Bears likely to put Knox on the PUP list. It looks doubtful he will even suit up for training camp according to doctors. That will put pressure on Emery to find at least one more WR
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Bears likely to put Knox on the PUP list. It looks doubtful he will even suit up for training camp according to doctors. That will put pressure on Emery to find at least one more WR.
Yup. Bad news, but pretty much the outcome I was expecting all long. So realistically we need 2 (more) WRs. Not sure how that's gonna happen though. Hester may wind up still playing some WR this year just by default and to give us some deep speed.
I don't know all the roster rules but does PUP mean he's lost to us for the year or could we re-activate him at some point later in the season?
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Here is the article:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0326-bears-knox--20120326,0,7001929.story
And it does say that he automatically misses the first 6 games, but he does get paid
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Realistically, Knox has been a 'filler' at wideout the last few years anyway. Yea he's had some good games, but with real wideouts on this team he'd be a non-factor. He's been highlighted simply because we don't HAVE much to work with. But he's blown quite a few games as well, taking wrong routes, falling down, etc. We can replace him with better....
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You'll have to admit though in certain situations with Marshall and Knox outside that should leave a lot more room underneath for Bennett.
I expect Marshall and Bennett are our 1 and 2 with Hester and Sanchenbacker splitting time at #3.
I also expect us to run more traditional 2WR sets this year.
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Well, according to this blurb in the Knox article, not only is Hester staying at WR but his role may be increasing.
The Bears are well-prepared to move on without Knox in the passing game after the addition of three-time Pro Bowl receiver Brandon Marshall as a vertical threat. New offensive coordinator Mike Tice plans to utilize Devin Hester more on offense as well, and quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates also has raved about Hester's potential in the revamped offense.
The bolded part of that paragraph is a flat-out lie, but getting past that, this is the first thing I've really had to question about Tice and Bates' philosophies. We've tried Hester as a WR in two different systems and gotten pretty much nothing, not to mention a dramatically less effective returner.
If Hester is being used more as a WR I have to assume it's by default (i.e., we're short a speed guy after losing Knox and can't afford a draft pick on one)... not by design.
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Realistically, Knox has been a 'filler' at wideout the last few years anyway. Yea he's had some good games, but with real wideouts on this team he'd be a non-factor. He's been highlighted simply because we don't HAVE much to work with. But he's blown quite a few games as well, taking wrong routes, falling down, etc. We can replace him with better....
I could not disagree more with this.
How many speed receivers have you seen on the Bears over the last 10 or 20 years?
The guy was a mid-round pick from a small school and exceeded expectations. Plus he is a pro-bowl quality kick returner and was among the league leaders in yards per catch.
Yeah, he occasionally had some problems running routes - but that could be said of just about any receiver in the Martz system the last two years.
Yeah, we can replace him...maybe with a first or 2nd round pick. If he's healthy we could be looking at OT DE or CB with those high picks.
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Given the developments with Knox, don't be surprised if Emery takes a hard look at Kendall Wright if he falls to 19.
Personally I think it's insane to spend a Top 20 pick on a 5'10 WR but if Emery feels we really need to replace Knox' downfield speed with a legitimate WR (not Hester), he might pull the trigger.
Personally I would rather wait till Round 2 for a small speed guy since there will be some of those still around in the 2nd Round and the dropoff from Wright to those guys is not significant.
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I'm thinking if the Bears are going to target a DE or OT in round 1, I agree that there is WR value in round 2. Wright ran a sub 4.5 40 which pushed him back in the first round - but I think the Bears would prefert Floyd or Hill if they are going WR that early.
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And I see that kid from Georgia Tech will likely be there at #19. PFT still has us taking that DE/LB rusher at #19. I hope that is a smoke screen.
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I see this draft being critical to us having a respectable season
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I think having Marshall makes Hester better.
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I definitely think so. The opposition cant double everybody
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Hester wasn't good to begin with! IMO the guy is a returner and that's all he should be doing....
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I think having Marshall makes Hester better.
Meh... Marshall doesn't make Hester any taller, or give him better hands... which are the two biggest flaws in his game as a WR.
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And I see that kid from Georgia Tech will likely be there at #19.
I know some people here strongly want a LT with our 1st round pick but consider for a moment a 4 WR rotation of Marshall, Hill, Hester and Bennett.
Marshall
Pros: Size, experience, separation
Cons: Character, hands
Hill
Pros: Size, speed, character
Cons: Experience
Hester
Pros: Speed, character, experience
Cons: Size, hands, separation, durability
Bennett
Pros: Hands, experience, character, separation
Cons: Size, durability
So what you've got there is a WR unit that truly is more than the sum of its parts, with redundancy on all the most important attributes and each member's weaknesses covered by the strengths of at least one other player.
Just something to think about.
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I'm not sold on any of the CB or DE at 19.
I think Martin will be a good LT prospect for the 19th spot.
If Martin is off the board I won't be upset if we take Hill.
A WR with his size/speed is hard to come by. I expect he might upgrade our group this year even while learning on the job.
If he and Marshall could start on the outside and Bennett could work underneath that would be a good combination.
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I'm not sold on any of the CB or DE at 19.
I feel the same way. The only possible exceptions being Melvin Ingram (if he falls that far which is very unlikely), Coples (same deal as Ingram), and Mercilus (who may be a bit of a reach even at 19 considering he only had one good year in college).
But guys like Perry from USC and the DE from Marshall just don't feel like a good fit or good value at 19 at all.
As for CB I think once you get past Claiborne and Kirkpatrick you're into 2nd route territory already. Seriously.
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Latest Mock Draft from WalterFootball.
1) Quentin Coples, DE, UNC
Off Board: Martin, Ingram, Kirkpatrick, Wright, Upshaw
Still On Board: Hill (goes to Browns), Mike Adams (goes to Steelers), Mercilus (goes to Packers)
2) Amini Silatulo, OG, Midwestern State
Off Board: Fleener, Zeitler, Sanu, Jeffery, Massie, Harrison Smith
Still On Board: Dwayne Allen (TE), Reuben Randle (WR), Zebrie Sanders (OT)
3) Nick Toon, WR, Wisconsin
4) Keenan Robinson, LB, Texas
5) Michael Egnew, TE, Missouri
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I doubt Coples is on the board at #19. I would be shocked if that were to happen. Toon in the 3rd I could go for
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Toon is no Steven Hill to be sure, but if we could get one more big body on the roster at WR it would make me feel a lot better. Even if waiting till the 3rd round means we give up a little speed.
Brandon Marshall could get hurt or be suspended at any time and without another 6'3+ guy on the roster Cutler would be right back where he was the last couple of years. And no I'm not counting Roy Williams cause he was a non-factor.
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I cant believe the silence from the Bears regarding Roy boy. Maybe they are waiting till after the draft to determine whether they get another WR in the draft.
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If we bring RoyBoy back, some really serious questions need be asked.
That guy did not earn his keep last year, and that was in a system that supposedly played to his strengths. The bottom line is he is a guy that looks the part of a #1 WR but doesn't have the focus or consistency to live up to it. The fact that he's a free agent coming off a lowball contract and hasn't even gotten a sniff from anyone else (at least that's been reported), says volumes.
Guy can't be trusted, plain and simple. Not to mention, Marshall and RoyBoy is one too many head cases at WR for my liking.
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I cant believe the silence from the Bears regarding Roy boy.
Believe it.
What I couldn't believe was that Roy boy and Hester were just handed starting jobs last season. I warned everyone that together they could lead the NFL in dropped passes. I don't know if that happened but neither made an impact and in this league if you don't have at least one WR making an impact you're....running and passing to Matt Forte a lot.
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It seems WR position has more head cases than any other position.
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It seems WR position has more head cases than any other position.
Yep.
Our problem with THE BEARS is ...
we dont have enough. :D
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One draft rag has Zietler going at 45 while we draft at 50, so this is more then doable.
Name: Kevin Zeitler
College: Wisconsin Number: 70
Height: 6-4 Weight: 314
Position: OG Pos2: OT
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2012
40 Time: 5.39 40 Low: 5.23 40 High: 5.54
Projected Round: 1-2 Stock:
Rated number 3 out of 222 OG's 37 / 2637 TOTAL
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6037
Weight: 314
40 Yrd Dash: 5.39
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 32
Vertical Jump: 29
Broad Jump: 08'05"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.61
3-Cone Drill: 7.77
Dates: 03/07/12
Height: 6037
Weight: 314
40 Yrd Dash:
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd
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We need more head cases, JJ....make it happen ;D
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Git er done!
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No way Zeitler plays OT in the NFL. Too short and too slow.
I think I saw someplace though where he had been working out at C. 6'4 317 is really good size for a C and since Garza won't be around forever he might be worth considering for that reason.
Still think the edges are where our OL is most at risk though. 7th round small-school LT and a 2nd year RT with questionable durability do not inspire confidence.
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But it somehow doesnt seem to impress the powers to be that some 1st round selection is needed.
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New Mock draft out from WalterFootball and man does it stink.
1) Kendall Wright, WR Baylor (5'10, passing on Hill who is just as fast at 6'4)
2) Jerel Worthy, DT, Mich State
3) Cam Johnson, DE, Virginia
4) Ladarius Green, TE, Lousiana-Lafayette
5) Shaun Prater, CB, Iowa\
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GBN now has us taking Whitney Mercilus in the first.
http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html
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Really? The GBN mock I'm looking at says Riley Reiff. And a WR from Wake Forest in the 2nd.
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yapper
I like the attributes of Stephen Hill also, but playing WR is not just about height and speed (i.e. hands, routes, etc). Hill may have more potential but Wright has produced and may be the more accomplished receiver at this point.
The GBN mock shows Mercilus, Hill, Floyd and Martin all available at 20 - actually has Hill going in round 2.
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Wright played against some pretty bad Big XII defenses. And he had a uniquely talented QB creating opportunities for him. Those factors combined with his lack of height really make me wonder if his college production will translate to the pros.
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Wright may be a system receiver. Thats dangerous
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The Packers will host Giants free-agent end Dave Tollefson on an official visit Thursday and Friday, an NFL source said.
The Packers, who drafted Tollefson in the seventh round in 2006, are one of a half dozen teams interested in him. He already has visited Seattle and is expected to visit one other team this week.
In addition to the Packers and Seahawks, the Oakland Raiders are interested in Tollefson. Seahawks general manager John Schneider and Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie were both with the Packers when Tollefson was drafted.
The Packers are also expecting a visit from Buffalo free-agent tackle Demetrius Bell soon.
A draft in the room: One of the interesting parts of the Packers' draft this year is that nine of the 12 picks are scheduled for the final day of the three-day draft.
The first round will be held Thursday, April 26, followed by the second and third rounds Friday, April 27, and the fourth through seventh rounds Saturday, April 28.
The Packers have one pick in each of the first three rounds: Nos. 28, 59 and 90. In the fourth, they have three: Nos. 123, 132 and 133. In the fifth and sixth, one each: Nos. 163 and 197. And in the seventh, four: Nos. 224, 235, 241 and 243.
The three-day format has presented some challenges to general manager Ted Thompson, who for years took part in drafts that began early in the morning. Drafting 28th this year, his pick might not come until the middle of David Letterman's monologue.
"I'm not really a night person," Thompson said. "The first day we're picking at 11 o'clock or something. That's not when I'm at my best. I actually liked the setup when I was working in Seattle because the draft started at 8 o'clock in the morning and by 1:30 you're done."
Having four picks in the final round may save the personnel staff some work after the draft when they're feverishly calling undrafted players in order to sign them as free agents. With three extra picks in the round, they can assure themselves of getting at least a couple of the players they normally would sign as free agents.
Choices, choices
Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, the former Packers offensive coordinator, said he made a strong push for quarterback Matt Flynn from the start of free agency.
When asked about Flynn's decision to choose Seattle, he said he thought Flynn had an excellent visit to the Dolphins facility. When pressed further, Philbin said:
"Again, you need to ask Matt Flynn why he's in Seattle. There's a myriad factors that go into why people make decisions about their own future, which is their prerogative. It always takes two people to get a marriage and so I wish him well. He's a great young man. But he's better to ask why he's in Seattle."
Tyler Dunne of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report from Green Bay.
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IMO Wright is realistically a 2nd round NFL prospect who will be drafted in the 1st because of his ridiculous college stats.
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Wright played against some pretty bad Big XII defenses. And he had a uniquely talented QB creating opportunities for him. Those factors combined with his lack of height really make me wonder if his college production will translate to the pros.
Same could be said about Jerry Rice... Rice was also said to be slow. Just saying, you never know.
You know that Walter Payton kid has a chance, but I'd sure like my chances better with Archie Griffin.
The draft is a c rapshoot....
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I would take Hill and Poe later in the draft. Blew up the combine, great size and speed numbers, limited college production. BIG risk...
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Anyone who thinks Hill will last till the Bears 2nd round pick simply doesn't understand how NFL GMs think.
Here's a kid that's 6'4, 215 and runs legit 4.3's. On top of which, showed good hands and unexpected polish as a route runner at his Pro Day, and if that weren't enough, has "plus" character. Even if it takes him a little time to acclimate to a pro offense, he is franchise WR material and those guys don't grow on trees. If Hill falls into the 20s teams will be falling over themselves to grab him. Including teams that may appear to pretty well set at that position already.
If by some chance he makes it into the 2nd round he'll get no farther than the Rams (especially if they don't go WR in the 1st), or the Vikings at the absolute lowest.
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Yeah I get your point, however is he too raw to start from day one or is it going to take him 4-5 games to get up to speed? We need starters not bench players with our #1 pick.
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if you have a chance at a bona-fide #1 WR at 19 you take him and live with him learning the ropes the first few games.
I own't be surprised if he is gone before we pick.
He is elite talent with good character from a program that doesn't cater to his strengths.
I won't be upset if we take him at 19.
I watched part of an interview last night with Michael Floyd and listening to him was real encouraging.
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We need starters not bench players with our #1 pick.
Totally agree, but I think what you do with a guy like Hill is, you draw up a small package of plays that he can learn quickly so you can get him on the field right away. Even if he's not a 3-down starter. Then as he acclimates to the speed of the NFL you work him into the offense more and more.
Marshall, Hill and Bennett on the field at the same time plus the threat of Forte catching passes would give opposing DCs a lot to keep tabs on. Assuming of course that pass protection is up to par.
It seems to me pretty likely that either Hill or Floyd will still be there at 19 and then the question is, is that guy the best player we could take at that spot or is there a lineman (O or D) who's a better value still on the board? Emery's FA acquisitions have been almost entirely skewed towards O and ST so I have to think if there's a tiebreaker when they're on the clock, the edge will go to the defensive player. My gut keeps telling me 1st round pick is going to be a DE and likely either Coples or Mercilus.
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I agree Yapp, and hopefully next year Hill is ready to assume the #2 spot and move Bennett to the slot.
Tice had good success with another raw big fast WR in the past and he was a head case.
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With regard to another WR prospect... Alshon Jeffery... his Pro Day was this week and word is he looked good but not great.
Given strong combine and/or Pro Day showings by guys like Hill, Floyd and Wright I think Jeffery is pretty much locked-out of the 1st round and he could be available at our 2nd round pick if we don't go that direction in the 1st. I have also seen him as the Vikings' 2nd round pick in a couple of mocks.
Another guy to watch for in the mid-2nd round is Brian Quick, 6'3 215 from Appalachian State. Looked good in the combine as well as his Pro Day where he turned a 4.5 but was exceptionally fast in the first 10 yards. He is a converted basketball player with a ton of physical ability but may face a bit more of an adjustment period due to level of competition.
If we wait till the 3rd round then a guy like Toon from Wisconsin or McNutt from Iowa may be in play.
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Draft Floyd in the first and thats that.
Would you like to go off on a tangent since you havent been there under angelo?
Emery tossing our seventh and next years second to get DeCastro.
Stranger things have happened.
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There is a stigma to drafting interior guys in the 1st and at #19 I dont see Emery moving up for DeCastro
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Floyd is moving up the charts and likely not available at 19.
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That may make the Bears' choice easier. But imagine instead sitting there at 19 and Floyd, Hill, Martin, and Mercilus are all there....what do you do?
Trade down?
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Take Hill.
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I could see them trading down for Hill. I think he is kinda raw. I am coming around to the point of view that the Bears will go DE at #19 if the right player is there. IMHO Lovie gets a plum.
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A nonstop motor DE like Mercilus, aka Simeon Rice, would not be such a bad thing. Of course he is not going to help Jay Cutler at all.
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Was anyone clamoring for help for Cutler when he was in the midst of his 5 gaming wining string with the offense averaging 30 points a game? So maybe we go Mercilus to help out the defense that is basically returning the same 11 starters.
Offensive line should improve without any additions simply by adding Carimi at RT. But Webb did lead the league in sacks - so maybe you go Martin.
Knox gets replaced by Marshall. So now we have to find a #2 guy to replace Roy Williams. So maybe we go Hill or Floyd.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/30/jason-peters-injury-may-have-led-eagles-to-sign-king-dunlap/
This could really change the flow of the draft. Nobody had expected the Eagles to draft a lineman with their 1st round pick but this King Dunlap guy is worse than J'Marcus Webb... so if Philly becomes yet another team getting into the mix ahead of us for a LT we could be screwed.
OTOH at least a couple of mocks had them taking Floyd so it could help us on that front.
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Yeah, Peters ruptured his achilles and will have surgery. I think he's done for in 2012. Most mocks had the Eagles going defense - interior line. At WR they seem pretty well set with Maclin and DeSean Jackson and Avant is a decent third guy.
But yeah, I'd think LT is now their top priority.
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maybe they bring in one of the vets like Bell or McNeil since they just need a stop gap till Peters is back.
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Anybody look at Zebrie Sanders as a 2nd round option at LT?
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I read an article that proposed two scenarios:
- Eagles trade up to 10 to get Riley Reiff (assuming he doesn't go to the Dolphins at 8).
- Eagles draft Martin at their current spot (15) if he's there.
The first option doesn't really hurt us (since we were never realistically in the mix for Reiff anyway)... but the second scenario does.
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I dunno, nav's comment that they just need a guy for a year may preclude them from spending their top pick on a LT.
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Then again, if you get a guy like Martin who comes in and does well, you trade Peters next year and save some dough and get a pick.
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McNeill is one tweak to his neck from being done for good. I really don't think he's a viable stopgap. He could go down at any time and then they're right back where they are now.
As for Bell, he's gonna want a long-term deal at a starter's salary. So "renting" him for a season isn't viable either.
We could offer them Chris Williams for a 2nd round pick. :D
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Haha. Fat chance of that happening.
I think all this scenario of Martin falling to us just went out the window. Nobody is going to give up a LT. I think there is a greater chance Floyd falls to us or a DE or DT fall to us.
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Floyd should come our way.
But heres the fuuucker that flips me that I dont know about,
has Emery ever drafted up?
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There is a lot of interesting information in this article as to who the Bears are interested in and their reaction to those players:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-smith-keeping-busy-eyeing-prospects-20120328,0,861800.story
Smith was pretty quick to avoid seeming to be interested in Hill
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Written by
Pete Dougherty
Filed Under
Two Alabama defensive players who might be first-round draft picks worked out for pro scouts late this week and figure to be on the Packers’ radar: safety Mark Barron and outside linebacker-defensive end Courtney Upshaw.
Barron is looking like the more highly regarded prospect of the two, though he’s coming off double hernia surgery in the offseason. Barron appears to have a good chance to come off the board beginning in the middle of the first round. He didn’t participate in the scouting combine or Alabama’s Pro Day in early March because he was recovering from the surgery, and he wasn’t back to full strength Thursday — Alabama coach Nick Saban estimated Barron was about 85 to 90 percent of the way back from surgery.
One report estimated his 40 time at 4.55 seconds, which isn’t particularly fast for a safety. But in his position workout he looked fluid to Tony Pauline, the draft expert for SI.com, who predicted Barron will be drafted in the middle to late portion of the first round.
Upshaw seems to be more a later first-round prospect, or maybe even an early second rounder. His 40 time was estimated between 4.75 seconds and 4.78 seconds — he didn’t run at the combine or take part in Alabama’s first pro day, either. That speed is average at best for a 3-4 outside linebacker in a scheme such as the Packers’, though compensating factors such as power and short-area quickness come into play also.
Upshaw also weighed in 279 pounds, which is heavy for the position and seven pounds more than the 272 he weighed at the combine.
“Honestly, I feel 250,” Upshaw told the Tuscaloosa (Ala.) News.
Pauline of SI.com questioned Upshaw’s quickness and overall athleticism in his workout, which could reduce the number of teams willing to take him in the first round. But he said Upshaw also displayed great power, and it’s now a question of whether teams think he can play in coverage in a 3-4 or whether he is more of a 4-3 pass-rush end.
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Boise State has two defensive linemen and an outside linebacker who are good prospects — not elite prospects who will be selected in the first half of the first round, but well regarded players who figure to go in the first three rounds: Billy Winn, Tyrone Crawford and Shea McClellin.
McClellin, in fact, might have done enough in the Senior Bowl and then offseason workouts to get consideration as a 3-4 outside linebacker (or 4-3 defensive end) starting late in the first round. The Packers pick at No. 28.
McClellin (6-3 1/4, 157), who ran the 40 in 4.63 seconds at the NFL scouting combine, didn’t do any physical testing at his Pro Day but according to reports looked good in position drills. He played defensive end at Boise State but also worked out as a 3-4 outside linebacker, and it looks like he can make the move to a defensive scheme such as the Packers’. He had seven sacks, two interceptions and 12 1/2 tackles for a loss last season.
Crawford (6-4 1/4) probably is a defensive end in a 3-4 scheme – he added eight pounds from the combine, up to 282 — though he reportedly worked out at outside linebacker also. He improved his 40 time from 4.85 seconds at the combine to 4.77 on campus. Crawford (13 1/2 tackles for loss, 6 1/2 sacks last season) i’s looking like a second-or third-round prospect.
Winn (6-3 3/4, 294) ran the 40 in 4.85 seconds, an improvement from 4.93 seconds at the combine. He had eight tackles for a loss and three sacks last season, and is a second- or third-round type prospect also.
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Boise State has two defensive linemen and an outside linebacker who are good prospects — not elite prospects who will be selected in the first half of the first round, but well regarded players who figure to go in the first three rounds: Billy Winn, Tyrone Crawford and Shea McClellin.
McClellin, in fact, might have done enough in the Senior Bowl and then offseason workouts to get consideration as a 3-4 outside linebacker (or 4-3 defensive end) starting late in the first round. The Packers pick at No. 28.
McClellin (6-3 1/4, 157), who ran the 40 in 4.63 seconds at the NFL scouting combine, didn’t do any physical testing at his Pro Day but according to reports looked good in position drills. He played defensive end at Boise State but also worked out as a 3-4 outside linebacker, and it looks like he can make the move to a defensive scheme such as the Packers’. He had seven sacks, two interceptions and 12 1/2 tackles for a loss last season.
Crawford (6-4 1/4) probably is a defensive end in a 3-4 scheme – he added eight pounds from the combine, up to 282 — though he reportedly worked out at outside linebacker also. He improved his 40 time from 4.85 seconds at the combine to 4.77 on campus. Crawford (13 1/2 tackles for loss, 6 1/2 sacks last season) i’s looking like a second-or third-round prospect.
Winn (6-3 3/4, 294) ran the 40 in 4.85 seconds, an improvement from 4.93 seconds at the combine. He had eight tackles for a loss and three sacks last season, and is a second- or third-round type prospect also.
Some guys to keep an eye on in the later rounds.
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Sam Farmer has DeCastro falling to us. Dont really see it, but would not complain.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/la-sp-nfl-mock-draft-20120401,0,2653696.story
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DeCastro or one of the top ranked DEs like Mercilus? That would be a tough choice if all the LTs are off the board.
DE is a bigger need than OG, but DeCastro is considered a once-in-a-decade prospect, which is much more than has been said about any of the DEs in this year's class.
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Plus would DeCastro make Webb/Carimi/Williams a better/more viable LT? Hard to say.
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Depends on if DeCastro plays LG or RG.
At LG I would think he could definitely help the LT situation, but at RG really not so much. And RG is arguably the side we're best set-up on already with Chris Spencer and Lance Louis both having done pretty well there in the past.
I think DeCastro played RG at Stanford but I'm not sure on that. And if he's as good as everyone says, switching to LG probably wouldn't be that big of deal for him.
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DeCastro or one of the top ranked DEs like Mercilus? That would be a tough choice if all the LTs are off the board.
DE is a bigger need than OG, but DeCastro is considered a once-in-a-decade prospect, which is much more than has been said about any of the DEs in this year's class.
So was Robert Gallery. Not knocking DeCastro or saying he is going to be bad, I just think the superlatives are relative. Sometimes its the guy next to him that makes him look good and when he gets to the next level that guy that was next to him isnt there.
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Plus would DeCastro make Webb/Carimi/Williams a better/more viable LT? Hard to say.
Sure, but the majority of the time the LT (or RT) is out on an island - one on one against the DE or OLB without any help.
I just don't know about DeCastro. If he's truly the highest rated player on the board I guess I could accept the pick, but I don't like taking guards in the first round and we are not in that bad of shape at guard with Chris Wiliams, Lance Louis, and Spencer with Edwin Williams an experienced backup.
I'd prefer Martin over DeCastro, assuming he's been checked out and is worthy of #19. And Mercilus also fits in with the build the trenches first philosophy.
But I still find myself thinking about Cutler throwing to Stephen Hill, a player much higher on the risk/reward scale.
If Martin and Hill do slide into the 2nd round, like in Farmer's Mock, it would be great if the Bears could slide down in round 1 and trade up in round 2. Not likely though.
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I look for Hill to slide to Cleveland at #23. I think he is a value at #23 but a reach at #19. I dont see #19 talent there with Hill.
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Is DeCastro the next Steve Hutchinson?
You'd have to be that kind of guard with a first rounder.
DeCastro would have to be head and shoulders above everybody for the next five years.
Is he that?
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DeCastro was a LG.
Some question if Martin is that good of a LT or if DeCastro helped Martin look like a good LT by playing LG so well.
I'm torn, if Castro is the next Carl Nicks, I doubt we would resign him when his contract is up.
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Is DeCastro the next Steve Hutchinson?
Almost every mock I've seen has him going in the top 15, which is almost unheard of for an interior OL. So yeah, he's that highly regarded.
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I just read that mock by Farmer in its entirety.
Besides the highly unlikely scenario of DeCastro lasting till the Bears pick at 19, it's hard to put much stock in any mock draft that has Stephen Hill falling to the 2nd round. That simply is not going to happen.
He also has 10 (yes, 10) D-Linemen going in the 1st round with 5 of them going in the Top 15 (Poe, Brockers, Ingram, Coples and Cox). Also very unlikely to happen. Yes DL is important but there are too many teams drafting in the Top 15 with more or bigger needs to address than DL.
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If the game is now all about the QB and not the running back as many of you have pointed out recently - then why the focus on a guard?
Shouldn't teams be looking early at DEs, QBs, WRs, CBs and left tackles?
And oh yeah, who is this Farmer guy?
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I really begin to question things when I read this article. I consider it a must read.
Phil Emery and Lovie Smith are OK with Bears’ offensive line
BY SEAN JENSEN sjensen@suntimes.com March 28, 2012 9:02PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/11587480-606/phil-emery-and-lovie-smith-are-ok-with-bears-offensive-line.html
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If the game is now all about the QB and not the running back as many of you have pointed out recently - then why the focus on a guard?
Shouldn't teams be looking early at DEs, QBs, WRs, CBs and left tackles
And in Farmer's scenario, that's exactly what happens. He has a Top 18 that includes 3 QBs, 3 CBs and 5 DL which helps push DeCastro down to 19.
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Well if the game is all about the QB, and we have an elite one, how about we do something to try and keep him healthy? :)
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What's with Martin dropping completely out of the 1st round on some of these latest mocks?
The only thing I can figure is that he must have sucked azz at his Pro Day. He needed a great Pro Day to show the scouts what he didn't show them at the Combine, and with his stock now apparently falling I have to assume that didn't happen.
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Yeah, like protect him better? Like improve the Oline? Somehow I dont see that happening as both Lovie and Emery seem to be happy with what we already have as I posted above
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Pre-draft smokescreen
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I would like to hope so, but somehow I just doubt that. But maybe you are right as Emery let it slip that the Bears would be into the Oline big in the draft. Trouble is there are only a couple of quality cant miss players. I kinda expect some additions come rounds 4-7 This seems to be a down year for Olinemen
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Mr. hush-hush at Halas for the past two months is suddenly exposing his cards to the other teams?
You gotta disguise your intentions if possible
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This seems to be a down year for Olinemen
OTs in particular. I've seen a couple of mock drafts where there are actually more interior O-Lineman going in the 1st round than there are OTs.
I'm not sure it's a "down year" per se but I think the number of Day One starters in the group is pretty small. Kalil and maybe Reiff at OT, DeCastro and Glenn at OG and maybe Konz.
OTOH if teams are looking for developmental prospects and/or depth, then that tier of prospects seems pretty substantial including OTs like Jon Martin, Mike Adams and Bobby Massie.
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So the Bears like their starters but could use "some depth." You dont waste 1st round picks on depth unless you are somebody like New England We need starters, not just depth.
Oh, and that Farmer draft had the Illinois DE Mercilous (SP) available at #19. I could see that over depth on the Oline
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What's with Martin dropping completely out of the 1st round on some of these latest mocks?
The only thing I can figure is that he must have sucked azz at his Pro Day. He needed a great Pro Day to show the scouts what he didn't show them at the Combine, and with his stock now apparently falling I have to assume that didn't happen.
I can't see how an opinion of an offensive lineman can change that much after a pro day. Did he not run through some cones in his underwear fast enough? Or maybe he had a bad bench press? A bench press is probably the easiest thing to improve with a player during the offseason. He went to Stanford so he's no dummy.
He's been a starter for quite a while at Stanford - there should be plenty of film to determine what he can do or can't do.
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Does the wonderlic score get thrown in there yet?
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In general it seems like the stock of some of the D-Linemen is rising while some of the O-Linemen are falling.
Whether the most recent mocks represent an actual change in GMs' philosophy who knows? Especially now as the cloak-and-dagger ramps up big time with just over 3 weeks left to go.
Two other factors that may be impacting these latest mocks:
1) The inexplicable (to me) scenario of Tannehill skyrocketing into the Top 10 (or even Top 5) and the domino effect that could trigger.
2) The season-ending loss of Eagles starting LT Jason Peters to an Achilles injury last week and the possibility that may re-direct Philly's draft priorities toward OL.
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http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012msanu.php
Sounds like a guy who would be a Top 20 pick if he had breakaway speed. As it is, might be worth a look with our 2nd rd pick if we don't go Hill in the 1st.
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Interesting. If we drafted Cordy Glenn and let him play RT, move Carimi to LT, and let Webb be swing. Just kicking the idea around. Or let Glenn play guard and maul whoever lines up against him.
http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012cglenn.php
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Boogie, I've been mulling the same scenario. Actually I've been mulling a few (starting 5, L to R):
- Webb / Glenn / Garza / Louis / Carimi = Chris Williams goes to the bench as a swing backup
- Webb / C. Williams / Garza / Glenn / Carimi = Louis goes to the bench but would come back at RG if Carimi gets hurt again (Glenn going to RT); MASSIVE right side of the OL in this scenario
- C. Williams / Glenn / Garza / Louis / Carimi = Chris Williams goes back to LT and Webb is the swing backup
- Carimi / C. Williams / Garza / Louis / Glenn = Carimi flips sides, Glenn plugs in for Carimi and the interior 3 stay the same
I have a hard time believing a guy with the size and skills of Cordy Glenn would not be one of our 5 best O-Linemen from Day One, so the challenge would be where to plug him in so he can be effective individually and provide the greatest benefit to the OL as a unit. The question is, are we all willing to see Carimi head to the bench if Glenn outplays him at RT and he can't unseat Webb (or possibly Chris Williams) at LT? I am extremely reluctant to think Carimi has any business being an NFL LT considering he has exactly 6 quarters of NFL playing time under his belt and he had a few struggles with speed guys on the right hand side already.
That all being said, of all the O-Linemen we have contemplated as possible Bears' 1st round picks, Glenn is the guy who most fits the prototype of what kind of player Tice likes. I think it is an extremely long shot that we take Cordy Glenn if he is available, but I wouldn't have a problem with the pick especially if Hill and Mercilus were both off the board.
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That all being said, of all the O-Linemen we have contemplated as possible Bears' 1st round picks, Glenn is the guy who most fits the prototype of what kind of player Tice likes. I think it is an extremely long shot that we take Cordy Glenn if he is available, but I wouldn't have a problem with the pick especially if Hill and Mercilus were both off the board.
I am warming to the Glenn idea. I could see Mercilus gone, but I think Hill will be there at 19.
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So Glenn is the o-lineman du-jour.
We don't need another RT - we have 2. And the only reason I'd consider a non-LT like DeCastro at all is because he's the 2nd coming of Hutchinson.
Let's say Brandon Marshall sprains his ankle - who do we line up at WR? Scary huh?
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I'm still saying it's Hill or Mercilus as the odds-on for our #1 pick at 19.
DeCastro in the very unlikely event those two are gone and he's still there. Glenn in the event all three of those are gone, or maybe still Jonathan Martin still if his Pro Day didn't scare off Tice and Emery.
That's 5 guys there and I would be beyond surprised (and a little disappointed) if one of them does not become a Bear on April 26.
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I actually like our right side with a healthy Carimi and Louis.
Upgrading either guy on our left side would be nice.
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Martin's pro day from a Cardinal writer:
Overall on Jonathan "Moose" Martin, he is a risky proposition and a team that is desperate, see Cardinals, will likely take the chance on him. He has all the things you want in a left tackle, good size, great arm length, excellent athleticism and good bend, but he is not strong enough yet. Can a team really take a chance on him that they can develop that strength? Is a team comfortable with a concussion prone QB to put him at the left tackle spot? That is the question that the Cardinals need to answer.
With that statement, some of the things that we had previously heard about Martin have been reaffirmed. He needs to bulk up, but I personally don't see that as being a long-term issue should the Cardinals choose to select him. John Lott will whip him into shape, whether he likes it or not.
In terms of the specifics, Martin did 20 reps of 225 pounds, he has 34 inch arms, he is about 6'5 1/8" and he weighs around 307 pounds.
Entire article: http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2012/3/23/2896711/2012-nfl-draft-jonathan-martin-impresses-at-stanford-pro-day-arizona-cardinals
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I actually like our right side with a healthy Carimi and Louis.
Upgrading either guy on our left side would be nice.
Lance Louis is more of a question mark at RG than Chris Williams was at LG - Williams was performing well at LG before his freak injury. Louis has only a handful of games at RG. I like Louis but there is a difference between Chris Williams the LT and Chris Williams the LG.
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Martin sounds like Chris Williams with longer arms.
Not really comfortable with the idea of "finesse" guys at both the T and G positions on Cutler's blindside.
If scouts think Martin is gonna need a year in an NFL weight room before he can start at LT, then I can see why he's sliding to the 2nd round in some of the mocks. You don't spend a 1st round pick on a guy you're not convinced you can plug in right away. With Angelo gone I sincerely hope we'll finally be getting away from the whole "redshirt" mentality and start spending our premium draft picks on guys who can help from Day One.
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Cordy Glenn at WR? Thats real scary
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Not sure we can afford to have "finesse" guys at both the T and G positions on Cutler's blindside.
Would you prefer a LT thats 6-7 and weighs 335lbs? We already have him on the roster - his name is J'marcus Webb.
You want a LT with quick feet, that doesn't mean he that he has to run 40 yards in 5 flat. And you want a guy with long arms that can nudge a defender outside. Quick feet is natural and hard to coach - long arms is impossible to coach.
Adding a few more reps in bench press shouldn't be that difficult. But I'd be more concerned with his strength below his waist not above it.
My question is has Martin ever faced a top quality RDE and how did he do? Maybe like that guy from USC that everyone talks about the Packers taking.
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The other thing that may be working against Martin is the fact that if most scouting reports are to be believed, the guy next him on the Stanford OL (DeCastro) is already a better player than all but a handful of OGs in the NFL. Which begs the question of how much of Martin's success was due to DeCastro's dominance, and can Martin "translate" to the next level where there's a possibility the guy next to him on the OL might not be as good as the guy he teamed with in college, while the guys across from him will be much better? I don't think those concerns are entirely unfounded.
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Which further begs the question on how the line played after Chris Williams went down with injury. It seemed to time Webb's decline as well.
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Gentlemen,
This is a whole new game for our Beloved CHICAGO BEARS.
Lets look at what we have and dont have ...
you see this is the part of the discussion ...
where your input is needed. :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(
You get me Floyd and an OL in the second ... and romp on DEFENSE after that ...
I'll put your ass in a SUPERBOWL.
WE ... ARE ... THAT ... GOOD!
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Which further begs the question on how the line played after Chris Williams went down with injury. It seemed to time Webb's decline as well.
Definitely. Edwin Williams was terrible and needs to be upgraded.
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Which further begs the question on how the line played after Chris Williams went down with injury. It seemed to time Webb's decline as well.
Definitely. Edwin Williams was terrible and needs to be upgraded.
Floyd in the first ... OL in the second.
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Which further begs the question on how the line played after Chris Williams went down with injury. It seemed to time Webb's decline as well.
Definitely. Edwin Williams was terrible and needs to be upgraded.
It's not like Webb's total game went to hell. He was having problems pass blocking - highlighted in the last game of the year. Overall though the run game kept clicking even when Chris Williams went out.
One factor no one's mentioned is that the teams sacks went up after the Cutler injury. Not only was Cutler more elusive than the other 2 guys and able to avoid the rush he was completing passes which kept the offense out of the dreaded 3rd and longs.
When the Bears were in the midst of the their 5 game winning streak where the offense was putting up around 30 points a game - Cutler was sacked a total of 5 times.
For the year, Cutler was sacked 23 times in 10 games. Almost half of those sacks (11) came in the first 2 games!
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Not only was Cutler more elusive than the other 2 guys and able to avoid the rush he was completing passes which kept the offense out of the dreaded 3rd and longs.
And that may be where Emery, Tice and Lovie have made the decision that rather than keep throwing resources at getting better personnel on the OL, we'll go with the guys we've got and try to cover for them by moving Cutler around more, etc.
In other words, if our OL is unable to give Cutler the 3-4 seconds of clear time in a traditional pocket (like Brady, Brees, etc. get when they drop back), then rather than rebuild the OL to do that, we'll rebuild the scheme to try and take advantage of it. And let Cutler audible his way out of potentially disastrous plays before the ball is snapped. Not the ideal solution, but maybe the practical one and since Cutler is pretty good on the run anyway, maybe it will work out.
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Bears still can draft a LT in round 1 - but they don't have to.
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I have a feeling a lot of the passing plays that Tice and Bates are drawing up this offseason require no more than about 2.5 seconds of a clean pocket since that seems to be about all our OL can manage. I would also not be surprised if a lot of the plays include a "bailout" which involves Forte or Bush as a safety valve and/or Cutler taking off on foot with the receivers breaking off their routes and mirroring him downfield to give him targets. The basic philosophy being, "we know pass rushers are gonna beat our OL more often than we'd like so we're going to build in contingencies so that even when that happens we have a good chance at plus yardage more often than not."
To think we can have a passing offense like the Patriots, Packers or Saints without having an OL half as good as those teams do, is absurd. Martz didn't get that, and it took years off Cutler's career. But hopefully Tice and Bates do understand, and are re-vamping the playbook accordingly.
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Aaron Rodgers sacked 36 times or 2.25 per game.
Cutler sacked 23 times (10 games) or 2.3 per game.
Packers offense #1 in scoring.
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Since there's been quite a bit of talk about that 5-game win streak with 30+ points per game I went back to recaps of all those games to try and find some common elements:
Bears 39, Vikings 10
- Cutler sacked once, 116 passer rating
- Forte 87 yards rushing, 36 receiving
- 5 sacks by the D
- Non-offense scoring: Devin Hester 99-yard KO return
Bears 28, Bucs 18 (in London)
- Cutler 1 TD, 2 INTs, 60 passer rating
- Forte 145 yards rushing
- 4 INTs by the D
Bears 30, Eagles 24 (MNF)
- Cutler 2 TDs, no INTs, no sacks, 97 passer rating
- Forte 134 yds rushing, 2 fumbles (1 returned for TD)
- Earl Bennett 5 catches 95 yds and game-winning TD (this was his first game back after the injury vs. the Saints)
Bears 37, Lions 13
- Cutler 68.5 passer rating
- Forte 64 yards rushing
- Defense 6 turnovers (2 fumble recoveries and 4 INTs)
- 21 non-offense points (Hester punt return and 2 INT returns)
Bears 31, Chargers 20
- Cutler 2 TDs throwing, 1 TD running, 97 passer rating, no sacks
So when you look at the recaps, it's not exactly like our offense (and particularly the passing game) was firing on all cylinders that whole 5-game stretch. Cutler basically alternated good and bad games, much of that having to do with the protection he was (or wasn't) getting. Additionally, two of those games were classic Lovie nail-biters. The Tampa game we blew a big lead, and the Eagles game we were down going into the 4th Qtr and had to fight back. And finally, to give all the credit to the offense for that streak is a little misleading as 28 of the points scored during that run came from ST or defense.
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Cutler basically alternated good and bad games, much of that having to do with the protection he was (or wasn't) getting.
So for those 2 subpar games by Culter we know for a fact that it was due to our O-line getting beat? What about our sucky receivers?
The point is, in none of those 5 games were folks complaining about our O-line playing poorly in the victory. And I'd bet that in most of the games that Cutler missed at the end the season (KC, Denver, Oakland, Minnesota, even Green Bay) it pretty much would have been more of the same if he was healthy.
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Too bad for the Bears...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/03/michael-floyd-looks-like-top-10-pick-at-notre-dame-pro-day/
Looks like it's gonna be Kendall Wright or Stephen Hill if the Bears want a 1st round WR and frankly I'm not sure either of them is worth the 19 overall. Wright is very small and did not face a lot of top pass coverage in college. I see him as one of those amazing college players who will underperform expectations in the pro's. Hill is probably a year or even 2 years away from being a full-time starter and faces a significant learning curve to adapt to an NFL passing offense. Given the choice of the two I'd go with Hill based on upside.
FWIW, updated Walter Football mock is out today. It has Mercilus going one spot ahead of us (of course), and us taking Wright with Hill on the board (he goes to the Broncos a few picks later). Sorry but I just don't see a 5'10 WR whose best attribute is speed being that much of an asset to a cold-weather outdoor team that plays on a slow field and can't give their QB enough protection to support a deep passing game. I think the last few years of the Devin Hester experiment would have proven that already. If Emery really feels we need a sub-6' burner those guys will still be hanging around in the 3rd round.
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Here's a guy I watched a lot of during his college career:
http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012cupshaw.php
Upshaw can flat-out get to the passer and has proven it against top competition. It's almost certain he'll there at 19 but he's a serious tweener. Too heavy for a LB and undersized for a down lineman (6'1, 272). I'm not sure Marinelli & Co. are creative enough to use a guy like this effectively but he has a special skill set. He could almost fill the role that Rosie Colvin did for us back in the day although he is probably a better pass rusher than Colvin while his coverage skills are not as good. This guy is a lot like Melvin Ingram who is also a tweener but is projected to be gone within the Top 15. He may be a slight reach at 19 but again, if used intelligently, I think he's a guy who could significantly improve our D from Day One.
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A big guy but may not be too big for a 3-4 LB.
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A big guy but may not be too big for a 3-4 LB.
Yeah and that's where people are saying he'd do best... as 3-4 OLB who would get to rush the passer a lot and not have to worry about pass coverage. He's a great player but in a scheme like the Bears run I'm not sure he'd be the best fit.
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Per PFT, here is a list of guys the Bears have held private workouts for and/or brought into Chicago for a visit:
- Notre Dame linebacker Darius Fleming
- Vanderbilt defensive end Tim Fugger
- West Virginia linebacker Bruce Irvin
- Montana defensive back Trumaine Johnson
- Memphis guard Ronald Leary
- Cincinnati tight end Adrien Robinson
- Baylor receiver Kendall Wright
I know that the draft is about uncovering players nobody else knows about but there seem to be a lot of real longshots on that list. It's also interesting that the list is very short compared to some other teams. Each team is allowed up to 30. The Bears have done 7 whereas a lot of teams have done 10 or more by now and the Browns have done 20.
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I would like to hear the announcers call out Fugger multiple times per game
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Did you SEE that Fugger?
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He's the son of Mother Fugger.
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As for the Memphis guard, he's not even ranked in the Top 25 OG prospects.
I can only think of one reason the Bears would want to talk to him and that would be to get the straight skinny on his teammate (Dontari Poe).
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I see Emery and company were at ND pro day.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0404-notre-dame-football--20120404-19,0,713730.story
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Floyd is out of our reach. Harrison the safety is a possibility in the 2nd. Heck it's only a couple hour drive, why not send some of our people over there and check things out.
I'm feeling more and more like our 1st round pick is gonna be a DE and our 2nd round pick will be a DB (either CB or S). Shore up our pass D with quality additions on the front end and back end (putting Urlacher's replacement as a priority for next year), and go back to WR with the 3rd round pick hoping that (plus what we've done in FA) is enough to get our passing game over the top. And then all BPAs on the 3rd day.
Speaking of DBs, I read today where the Bears have drafted a safety every year for the last 7 years. That's pretty clear evidence of both a GM who has no idea what he's doing, and a defensive scheme that needs overhauled. Good safeties are a dime a dozen. OTOH safeties who can play well in Lovie's system, apparently, are much harder to find. So either find better players for the scheme, or change the scheme cause no way in hell should it take more than half a decade to find two safeties who can do their jobs at the NFL level.
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Too bad for the Bears...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/03/michael-floyd-looks-like-top-10-pick-at-notre-dame-pro-day/
Looks like it's gonna be Kendall Wright or Stephen Hill if the Bears want a 1st round WR and frankly I'm not sure either of them is worth the 19 overall. Wright is very small and did not face a lot of top pass coverage in college. I see him as one of those amazing college players who will underperform expectations in the pro's. Hill is probably a year or even 2 years away from being a full-time starter and faces a significant learning curve to adapt to an NFL passing offense. Given the choice of the two I'd go with Hill based on upside.
Why do you feel Hill is probably a year or even 2 way from contributing? Just curious.
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Hill played in a triple-option college offense. Which means his primary job was to fly down the field to stretch the defense and when he wasn't doing that, he was doing a whole lot of blocking.
The feeling (and the reason Hill is considered a low-1st to mid-2nd prospect vs. Top 15) is that it will take Hill some time to ramp-up in a NFL offense that requires much more from WRs in terms of discipline, recognizing coverages, route-running etc.
That being said, and I've said it before, just cause Hill isn't likely to be a 3-down starter from Day One doesn't mean he couldn't be strategically used on certain plays and packages from the get-go, then worked more and more into the offense as he develops.
With regard to Wright vs. Hill I come down squarely on the side of Hill. I would rather gam-ble on Hill taking a little time to develop then gam-ble on Wright being a non-factor due to his lack of size, poor level of college competition and not having a guy named Robert Griffen III creating opportunities for him. Wright may have a decent NFL career with a dome or warm-weather team that likes to throw the deep ball, but I don't see him as a fit for the Bears at all.
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The Bears have done 7 whereas a lot of teams have done 10 or more by now and the Browns have done 20.
Didn't the Bears visit Stephen Hill?
I'm feeling more and more like our 1st round pick is gonna be a DE and our 2nd round pick will be a DB (either CB or S).
Me too. I just hope the Bears just take the BPA as long as its a DE, LT or WR. As for 2nd round, I think they can find their system cover 2 CB in round 3 maybe round 4 - he doesn't have to start right away. As for safety, I feel good about Conte and Wright showed improvement over his rookie season. He just needs to stay healthy. They'll need to find another safety (as well as a couple CBs) as Stelz is the only legit backup.
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Well he sounds like Vincent Jackson who's main job was to fly downfield to stretch the field and block.
I like Hill better every day.
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Dallas - The names I listed were guys the Bears have brought in to Halas Hall. They did check out Hill but that was at the GT Pro Day.
With regard to a DB in the 2nd... here's a guy WalterFootball identifies as one of the top defensive "sleepers":
Casey Hayward, CB, Vanderbilt
If a team wants a cornerback with ball skills who can be a reliable player to create turnovers, then Hayward should be on its short list of prospects. He has some of the best ball skills of any corner in the 2012 NFL Draft class and is a pure ballhawk. Hayward had seven interceptions, 60 tackles, 7.5 tackles for a loss and 10 passes broken up this season. And it could have been even better. Hayward dropped three interceptions and totaled six passes broken up against Arkansas.
Hayward excels in zone coverage, but also has some man-coverage skills. The 5-foot-11, 192-pounder is a strong defender against the run. In addition to his good size, Hayward showed some real speed at the Combine with a 4.53 time in the 40-yard dash. He also was one of the defensive back leaders on the bench press with 19 reps. That is the same total reps as Ohio State left tackle Mike Adams and one more rep than Wisconsin center Peter Konz.
Hayward will fall to the second day of the draft, but he is going to reward the team that drafts him, and I believe will turn into a solid NFL starter.
The ballhawking aspect of his game caught my attention as we have been lacking that in recent years and we all know Lovie's defense is predicated on generating turnovers. And with the Bears seemingly having established a pipeline into Vanderbilt I wouldn't be surprised if this were our guy in the 2nd.
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I wouldn't knock Wright cuz he excelled with a quality QB in college. If he didn't then I'd be worried. But unless the player is really special (Steve Smith), the small receiver is just at too much of a disadvantage.
I agree about the comments on Hill. Bears can work him into the lineup and hope by the 2nd half he can grow into a starting role. Too many times we just pencil in the first rounder as a sure fire starter - we got to remember that we're not drafting for just one year.
But WR is one of the easiest positions to work a guy into the lineup and not hurt your team as opposed to other positions.
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Hayward will fall to the second day of the draft, but he is going to reward the team that drafts him, and I believe will turn into a solid NFL starter.
I have no idea what 2nd day of the draft means. Used to 4th round, what round is it now?
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A healthy and motivated Marshall on one side... Hill on the other and Bennett working the slot with Forte as the safety valve. We could start looking like a real NFL offense with that group on the field.
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2nd day means 2nd (or 3rd) round in the new system.
Thursday - 1st round
Friday - 2nd and 3rd round
Saturday - 4th - 7th rounds
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In Hill's 3-year college career consisting of 38 games, he had 49 receptions. That's his career total, not a yearly average. That's why people are saying he's "raw".
The flip side of it is that 9 of those 49 receptions were TDs and his career average was over 25 ypc.
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28 receptions last year.
He is a junior.
The bad news is he is likely raw.
The good news is he shouldn't be too beat up!
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Hill averaged 29.5 yards per catch last season. That's insane.
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Casey Hayward has game.
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I could totally see us going Hayward in the 2nd round. For where we're drafting in the 2nd he might be a bit of a reach but he sounds like a perfect fit for our scheme and the last DB we took from Vandy (DJ Moore) has worked out pretty well for us.
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Wright had RGIII throwing him the ball, but with the Bears it would be Cutler not Caleb Haine. Just saying he would have an elite qb here too. I would prefer Hill though, more upside potential.
And I like the sound of Hayward, wouldnt mind that at all. Is he going to last until our 2nd round pick in the mocks???
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Hmmm GBN mock doesnt have Hayward going in the first 3 rounds. Must check some more....
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One of the Walter Football mock drafters has Hayward going in the bottom of the 3rd (below our 3rd round pick to Denver). The other one actually has Hayward as our pick, but in the 3rd round.
So according to those mocks, taking Hayward with our 2nd round pick would be a sizable overdraft. Might be a situation where Emery trades down to the bottom of the 2nd and could still safely get him plus pick up a bonus 3rd or 4th rounder. OTOH if he's a guy who can plug in opposite Tillman and make plays right away, he is well worth a Top 50 pick IMO because our pass defense must improve and my confidence in Tim Jennings as our #2 is low. From what I can see Hayward is a much better candidate than projected 2nd round guys like Alfonso Dennard (too slow) and Jayron Hosley (too small).
The other deal with Hayward that cannot be underestimated, is that he was a 4-year starter in an SEC program. Which means he was facing NFL-caliber WRs virtually every week of his college career. Guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Rueben Randle, Alshon Jeffery, etc. Compare that to, say, the CB prospect out of Montana or Janoris Jenkins out of North Alabama and you're talking about two completely different learning curves. J'marcus Webb has shown us clearly how much the lack of quality competition in college can handcuff a young player in the NFL regardless of his talent level.
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I did see one mock that had Hayward taken by the Packers in the second, and a couple with him in the third, but he must be under the mock draft radar for now.
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Agree.
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LETS GET SOMTHING STRAIGHT ...
Theres was Angelo ...
Now theres Emery.
Angelo got us Cutler & Peppers. He also got us a 28th against the pass ... thats 28th.
Mmmmmmmm ... Conte in the third.
He also drafted the OL ... when he actually KNEW there was an OL ...
lemme get this into perspective ... WIlliams ... Carimi ... LEFT (that is to say ) LEFT Tackles ...
and uhhh ... both of those are STARTING at LT? Maybe ones a starter and ones a backup ...
it's good to have depth. ???
Or maybe angelo got us Cutler & Peppers.
Heres the key ... you are the GM ...
FUUCKING MARSHALL DAY ONE.
BUSH at RB.
CAMPBELL at backup QB.
Toub gets to go apeshiit with his picks of Weems and Thomas.
Stands to reason that Offense & Special teams have had their say ...
NOT SO FAST ... DEFENSE when it comes to secondary ... needs improvement.
PEANUT cant carry the load by himself.
But keep your defense OFF THE FIELD by offense SCORING.
WR ... OL ...first two picks in the draft ....
DEFENSE ... gets the next five. :o >:( :D :P
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With us signing the FA CB today I think we won't be drafting a CB now till 3rd round earliest.
DE Ingram, Coples or Mercilus in Rd 1 and WR Toon, Sanu or Quick in the 2nd if I had to put down money. Not pinning my hopes on Hill at this point and I think a DT could also slip into the day 2 mix as we are mighty thin there if we lose Okoye.
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We actually signed TWO CBs today. THe other guy is a 4th rounder.
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Who's the other CB we signed?
In any event great to see Emery staying active as long as its not taking resources off of draft prep.
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The back end of our pass D definitely needed work and it looks like that's getting done. Now let's see what happens on the line.
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LETS GET SOMTHING STRAIGHT ...
Theres was Angelo ...
Now theres Emery.
Angelo got us Cutler & Peppers. He also got us a 28th against the pass ... thats 28th.
Mmmmmmmm ... Conte in the third.
He also drafted the OL ... when he actually KNEW there was an OL ...
lemme get this into perspective ... WIlliams ... Carimi ... LEFT (that is to say ) LEFT Tackles ...
and uhhh ... both of those are STARTING at LT? Maybe ones a starter and ones a backup ...
it's good to have depth. ???
Or maybe angelo got us Cutler & Peppers.
Heres the key ... you are the GM ...
FUUCKING MARSHALL DAY ONE.
BUSH at RB.
CAMPBELL at backup QB.
Toub gets to go apeshiit with his picks of Weems and Thomas.
Stands to reason that Offense & Special teams have had their say ...
NOT SO FAST ... DEFENSE when it comes to secondary ... needs improvement.
PEANUT cant carry the load by himself.
But keep your defense OFF THE FIELD by offense SCORING.
WR ... OL ...first two picks in the draft ....
DEFENSE ... gets the next five. :o >:( :D :P
I actually get to quote myself ! Thank you Emery one day after the post for GETTING GIMME TWO !!
With Hayden and Wilhite on board it looks like a loaded backfield.
BTW ... Hayden and Jennings played together at Indy.
This clears up the draft to a situation that lets be lookin at T.E.
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TE only after weve snagged a DE, another WR and an O-Lineman.
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TE only after weve snagged a DE, another WR and an O-Lineman.
Nobody said to take a TE before WR and OL.
With the CB situation out of the way,
it now comes to a split in the philosophy ...
with the third ... TE? DE? Safety? OL?
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DE Ingram, Coples or Mercilus in Rd 1 and WR Toon, Sanu or Quick in the 2nd if I had to put down money. Not pinning my hopes on Hill at this point and I think a DT could also slip into the day 2 mix as we are mighty thin there if we lose Okoye.
I totally agree. I think there is good talent at WR into the 2nd or 3rd round so I wouldn't be surprised if the Bears go d-line with 2 of their first 3 picks especially considering Idonijie only got the one year deal and the fact that we haven't signed Okoye and have only 3 NFL experienced DTs. DT a very strong position in the draft, is looking like a good possibility for our first pick too.
The tackle from Stanford is a possibility but its likely he'll be gone by 19...and I just don't see Emery and Lovie chasing after a high risk/reward receiver like Stephen Hill.
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It's gonna be a shiitstorm ... Emery is unlike anything we have ever seen before.
MARSHALL - offense
CAMPBELL - offense
BUSH - offense
WEEMS - st
THOMAS - st
HAYDEN - defense
WHILITE - defense
Not only I ... but WE ... are stunned so far.
It's GOOD to be stunned. :D
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let's say that Coples is off the board at 19 but Poe is there. I know he has been climbing some lately.
Would you take Poe?
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I don't know if I would take Poe. Poe might be the most physically gifted D-Lineman available at 19 but that doesn't mean he's the best available player at that position.
Lovie definitely wouldn't take him... he's too big. And I think Lovie and Marinelli realize they are in win-or-else mode and really can't afford the year or two it will likely take to get Poe playing up to his potential (if he ever does).
So bottom line, no, I pass on Poe. Too much risk for the reward for a Top 20 pick and there are certain to be other players still on the board who have a better chance of making an impact against NFL level competition right away.
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DE Ingram, Coples or Mercilus in Rd 1 and WR Toon, Sanu or Quick in the 2nd if I had to put down money. Not pinning my hopes on Hill at this point and I think a DT could also slip into the day 2 mix as we are mighty thin there if we lose Okoye.
I totally agree. I think there is good talent at WR into the 2nd or 3rd round so I wouldn't be surprised if the Bears go d-line with 2 of their first 3 picks especially considering Idonijie only got the one year deal and the fact that we haven't signed Okoye and have only 3 NFL experienced DTs. DT a very strong position in the draft, is looking like a good possibility for our first pick too.
The tackle from Stanford is a possibility but its likely he'll be gone by 19...and I just don't see Emery and Lovie chasing after a high risk/reward receiver like Stephen Hill.
I really dont see the Bears going after any offesive player at 19 except Floyd who I think will be gone. I dont believe even were Martin to be there at 19 that the Bears would bite. I believe they've set their sights on a DE or DT. Also it wouldnt surprise me they have targeted the safety/CB Harrison Smith from ND in the 2nd round. Emery and company were at the ND pro day.
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I have no idea where Harrison Smith is projected. 2nd round may be too high but he is a good one. He has CB skills but played safety at ND. He is a real ballhawk.
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1st - DE (Coples, Mercilus)
2nd - S (Harrison Smith or maybe that kid out of Montana though a 2nd is high for a small-school guy)
3rd - WR (McNutt, Quick)
4th - Best CB available (to develop)
That wouldn't stink as long as we got the right players at all those positions. Mark my words there will be at least one big WR still down there at our 3rd Rd pick who can upgrade our WR crew right away.
I still have to think a DT figures into the mix somehow too if we don't re-sign Okoye. Also keep in mind there will be training camp cuts and while Emery is not likely to find starters among other teams' trash, there could be some opportunities to build depth there.
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Here's some scouting on Harrison Smith. Note the Player Comparison at the end.
6'2 / 213
Strengths:
Good centerfield type
Fast; covers a lot of ground
Hard worker
Reliable in run support
Smart
Athletic
Flexible hips to turn and run downfield
Explosiveness
Plus instincts
Takes good angles
Solid tackler
Quality size
Can cover tight ends and backs
Experienced
Durable
Has some ball skills
Versatile skill set
Can play free or strong safety
Weaknesses:
Had zero interceptions as a starter
Disappears at times
Inconsistent as a playmaker
Summary: Smith is an experienced prospect who has a nice mix of size and speed. He is the top free safety candidate in the 2012 NFL Draft. While it is a weak safety class, Smith is still a respectable prospect. He is a good centerfield safety who prevents big plays from getting behind him.
Smith has had some differing years with varying production over his three seasons of playing time. Most recently, he had 90 tackles with three tackles for a loss, 10 passes broken up, one forced fumble and zero interceptions in 2011. Smith had some mixed games with nice performances against Michigan State and Wake Forest. However, he didn't play very well against Michigan or USC.
Smith had a good Senior Bowl week. He showed off the speed to cover a lot of ground and didn't get caught out of position. He also was physical with offensive players. Later, Smith had a very strong Combine showing. He blazed a fast 40 time at 4.56 while looking very good in the field drills with the hip flexibility to turn and run fluidly.
Smith looks like a good NFL safety to patrol the deep part of the field. He should be able to handle coverage responsibilities on running backs coming out of the backfield or tight ends. Smith also figures to be solid in run support. There is demand at the position, and Smith is one of the few safety prospects who looks like he could play quickly. He also projects to be a long-term starter. It is possible that he breaks into late in the first round, but at worst, he should be an early second-round pick.
Player Comparison: Mike Brown. Brown was a Pro Bowl safety before injuries derailed his career. In his years with Chicago, Brown (5-10, 205) was capable of making some splash plays while also contributing well against the run. Brown was an intelligent player and a sure tackler. Smith's game, especially in 2010, is similar to Brown's.
That's a pretty good list of pro's to con's so I have to wonder if this guy will still be there at 50 when we pick in the 2nd. Another thing that strikes me is, he seems like a guy who wouldn't just be limited to one particular scheme. That's important cause if Lovie and Marinelli go away next year we'll need players that can translate into a new defensive scheme so we don't have to rebuild half the roster. I have to say though, Notre Dame guys scare me a bit cause that program has been down for awhile and they don't always play top competition. That's something I'll just have to trust our new GM on, though.
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Another reason I think the Bears intend to go DE in the 1st round is because that's about the only position that Emery hasn't tweaked yet in any way, AND that nobody from the Bears is talking about to the media.
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Smith sounds great, I wouldnt mind at all. But then who sits, Wright or Conte???
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Smith sounds great, I wouldnt mind at all. But then who sits, Wright or Conte???
Whichever one happens to be hurt that particular Sunday... :'(
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I think he might be who the Bears have eyes for
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When Emery goes to SB with Drake and the backfield coach for pro day you know there is more than just a view of the Golden Dome on their agenda
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0404-notre-dame-football--20120404-19,0,713730.story
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I just hope this is the year we get our safety situation solidified for the next few years so we can start using those draft picks elsewhere.
Seven safeties drafted in the last 7 years and we're still not sure we've got two guys that can start, much less depth behind them. That's a ridiculously bad return on investment.
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Dont you think Angelo's draft failures like that played a huge part in his "departure"?
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Hasnt Emery already went to work and got us a backup RB, and a backup QB that can play which were a failure last year?
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Dont you think Angelo's draft failures like that played a huge part in his "departure"?
Absolutely, and it still astounds me that he kept his job as long as he did.
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Hasnt Emery already went to work and got us a backup RB, and a backup QB that can play which were a failure last year?
Yup, and actually he's done a lot more than that. Basically he has:
1) Cut some long overdue dead weight (Omiyale, Hanie)
2) Fully stocked Toub's ST unit with studs from playoff caliber teams
3) Given Tice and Bates a true #1 WR while bringing in legitimate backups at QB and RB, and
4) Brought in some depth for our D, specifically the D-backfield
Still to do:
1) A couple of defensive playmakers
2) A WR to pair with Marshall and
3) Some O-Line help (if not a starter, at least depth)
4) (Stretch goal) "pipeline" prospects at LB, TE and/or C
Which is still a pretty hefty list but with a good draft we can make a good-sized dent in it.
All in less than 3 months on the job.
I'll admit I had my reservations about Emery, but so far I've pretty much liked every move he's made. Outside of Marshall he hasn't been making a lot of "splashy" moves but very quietly he is upgrading the Bears roster at a rate I didn't think was possible.
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Yapp, did you read the link to ND pro day I posted?
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Yapp, did you read the link to ND pro day I posted?
Yup. Kinda seems like a moot point for us to be checking out Floyd, but in the unlikely case he falls at least we're prepared. Sounds like Smith the S looked pretty good too.
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Lets say you were Emery and just drafted Floyd in the first, some OL player in the second,
and were just sitting there thinking in the war room :
"What could I do to put the screws to the other NFL teams with my third pick ... ?"
Until a few months ago, many of you may have never heard of him, but Ladarius Green might be the next big thing in the NFL.
The former Louisiana-Lafayette Cajun is one of the top tight end prospects in the 2012 NFL draft class after an impressive collegiate career.
Green recorded 149 receptions for 2,201 yards and 22 touchdowns for the Cajuns over the course of his career, bookending it all with a memorable performance in the 2011 New Orleans Bowl with five receptions for 121 yards and a touchdown in a 32-30 victory against San Diego State.
“Definitely winning the bowl game my last year, as a senior,” Green said when asked of his best memory from his accomplished tenure at Louisiana-Lafayette.
The bowl game was Green’s first and only appearance during the college bowl season and he made the best of his opportunity. His performance was just the exclamation point on a memorable run with the Cajuns that included strong showings against BCS powerhouses Georgia, LSU and Nebraska.
Since the completion of his final season with the Cajuns football team, the Germany-raised tight end prospect has been working hard to improve his stock heading into the NFL draft.
Originally a late round project player, Green’s performance at the NFL combine in February shot him up many analysts’ draft boards and put him in the same sentence as fellow top tight end prospects Coby Fleener, Dwayne Allen and Orson Charles.
“Those guys are all great athletes, but I consider myself to be a great athlete as well,” Green said. “I think we’re all about the same level.”
The Louisiana-Lafayette product will almost certainly be taken after each of those three men in April’s draft, but that will not stop him from excelling when given the opportunity in the NFL.
Green showcased his talents at the combine, impressing scouts and earning attention that was lacking because he played in one of college football’s less premier conferences, the Sun Belt Conference.
He ran an electric 4.53-second time in the 40-yard dash, second best among present tight ends (Fleener and Charles did not run).
The first-team All-Sun Belt tight end continued his combine effort with a successful day in the vertical jump (34.5”), broad jump (124”), three-cone drill (7.12 seconds) and, most importantly, in position drills.
Green ran solid, precise routes and showed great balance and body control when making cuts.
Something that still concerns scouts, however, is his ability as a traditional tight end at the line of scrimmage. Green was a capable blocker during his time at Louisiana-Lafayette, but there are doubts about his place as an in-line blocker at the next level.
Green, meanwhile, believes he showed what he is capable of at this year’s Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala.
“I think I did well,” Green said. “I think I showed a lot of people that I can block and I think I did good for myself in the Senior Bowl.”
He did show great progress as an in-line blocker and had a positive showing throughout Senior Bowl week.
Green fits the mold of the influx of athletic tight ends in the NFL that have become greater passing targets for quarterbacks than a talented corps of wide receivers, such as the New Orleans Saints’ Jimmy Graham and the San Diego Chargers’ Antonio Gates.
With 4.5-speed and a heap of potential and athletic ability, Green is the future of the tight end position.
At 6’6”and 238 pounds, Green boasts all the size and abilities an NFL offense yearns for in a lethal receiving threat.
While he has been tabbed as a tight end coming out of college, his size and skill set make him a much more intriguing prospect with the potential to play wide receiver.
Green compares favorably with some of the NFL’s best big-bodied receivers, such as Calvin Johnson, Vincent Jackson and Marques Colston, whom some scouts projected may have to move to tight end at the pro level.
Projected to go in the third round by many draft pundits, there will be plenty of teams that overlook Green and his game-changing abilities. He is a special player that could make a lot of teams sorry for passing over him when it is their turn to pick.
Green just wants to play football. Whoever is wise enough to take a chance on this stud prospect will be getting a brilliant athlete with unmatched work ethic in return.
Yeah ... Emery is thinking: "What could I do to screw the NFL?"
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Seen Smith play a few times and I wouldn't say he's equal to Brownie, not even close. Not sure where that came from...
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I've actually seen Ladarius Green going to the Bears in a couple of mocks. He and Kellen Davis would be a nice 1-2 punch at TE to be sure.
If Green is as advertised, maybe we gam-ble on him with our 3rd round pick instead of a big WR? He's basically as fast as guys like McNutt and Brian Quick who are likely the best WRs available in the 3rd.
The problem with the Bears is that they've never been one of these teams that can take talented "tweener" types like Ladarius Green and develop them into anything. Whether it's offense or defense. And when you've got a team like that, any time they draft a player like that it's pretty much a wasted pick. It's the same reason I'd be a little apprehensive about us taking Courtney Upshaw, who's a DE/OLB hybrid with real skills but not a guy that's just gonna plug in to any system and might have to have the scheme re-designed around him a bit. Lovie and the Bears have never shown any inclination to do that. I guarantee you if the Bears had drafted Aaron Hernandez he'd be buried on our depth chart and nobody would know his name to this day.
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Brownie was a ball hawk, always around the ball, always making plays. Smith is like the exact opposite of that,lol....I wouldn't take him personally....
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It looks like Harrison Smith had a pretty good year in 2010 (7 INTs), but then zero INTs last year. Wonder what's up with that?
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I've actually seen Ladarius Green going to the Bears in a couple of mocks. He and Kellen Davis would be a nice 1-2 punch at TE to be sure.
If Green is as advertised, maybe we gam-ble on him with our 3rd round pick instead of a big WR? He's basically as fast as guys like McNutt and Brian Quick who are likely the best WRs available in the 3rd.
The problem with the Bears is that they've never been one of these teams that can take talented "tweener" types like Ladarius Green and develop them into anything. Whether it's offense or defense. And when you've got a team like that, any time they draft a player like that it's pretty much a wasted pick. It's the same reason I'd be a little apprehensive about us taking Courtney Upshaw, who's a DE/OLB hybrid with real skills but not a guy that's just gonna plug in to any system and might have to have the scheme re-designed around him a bit. Lovie and the Bears have never shown any inclination to do that. I guarantee you if the Bears had drafted Aaron Hernandez he'd be buried on our depth chart and nobody would know his name to this day.
Yes but this is the Emery BEARS ... somthing we havnt seen before ... ;D ???
BTW ... Green also blocks.
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Jackie -
It's a new GM, but the same coaches. I'm just afraid Ladarius' Green's talents would go wasted with this coaching staff.
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Jackie -
It's a new GM, but the same coaches. I'm just afraid Ladarius' Green's talents would go wasted with this coaching staff.
We dont know that yet Yap.
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As for TEs the Bears still should have those two Hbacks/TEs on their roster we saw in training camp. I thought one at least made the practice squad. I think he was from Purdue.
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According to ChicagoBears.com there are currently 5 TEs on the Bears roster.
Kellen Davis
Matt Spaeth
Kyle Adams
Draylon Ross
Andre Smith
Now granted the TE (and 2 TE sets) will probably be used more in Tice/Bates' offense than with Martz, but still, that's a lot of bodies at the position.
Unless a couple of those guys are just total stiffs it's gonna be hard for a new guy to come in and even get reps in camp. A kid is really gonna have to show Emery something special to even get put on our draft board this year, I think.
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I could see us going WR, DE, OT or CB with any of the first two picks. Would not be suprised to see a LB, G or DT be added in the 3rd-7th. I fully expect at least two WR's being draft (one early, one late).
I would be shocked to see a TE or S in first 3 rounds, but not after.
I would be suprised to see a QB or RB drafted at all.
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Green is more of an Antonio Gates style TE/WR hybrid.
We could use our 3rd rounder to get him to replace Olsen that we got a 3rd rounder for :-)
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Kyle Adams was the guy I was thinking of from Purdue
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2. Nick Perry, USC- Perry is starting to move up draft boards as he may be the best 3-4 rush linebacker and the 2nd best 4-3 defensive end in the draft. Expect the Bears to take a long look at Perry to put opposite Peppers. Perry is 6’3″ 275 pounds with great strength and good enough speed to be a very good pass rusher in the NFL. I expect him to be available unless a team just falls in love with him.
I am seeing more and more mock drafts shgwing this guy as the Bears pick.
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That Perry guy scares me. He is short for a 4-3 DE (6'3), and not nearly as versatile as some of the other 1st round prospects who could line up at either DE or DT depending on situation and matchups. Also... although listed now at 270-275 he played at 250 most of his college career (in fact some scouting reports still list him at that weight). Adding 20-25 lbs in one year is not normal and immediately points to HGH. Translation = a guy who will have real trouble maintaining weight and strength without chemical enhancement and will be more prone to injuries down the line. The use of PEDs by USC defenders is an open secret (Clay Matthews, Brian Cushing, Taylor Mays, Rey Malauga, etc. ), resulting in guys who look great against Pac-10 competition, post impressive combine numbers and perform well in the NFL for a couple years but then flame out. I really hope Emery is doing his due diligence on this guy cause with the culture at USC, their players are riskier than most and this is a pick we absolutely can't afford to botch.
Highly unlikely that Ingram, Coples and Mercilus are all off the board by 19 and in that event I'd have problems with taking Perry because he is a cut below those three and IMO, has a significantly higher "bust factor". Even then I'd feel more comfortable with him at 29 or 30 instead of 19. He is a pass rush specialist and the only way you can ever justify taking a specialist in the Top 20 is if he's just ridiculously good at that speciality.
The one thing in Perry's favor is, he has probably gone up against Matt Kalil a lot in practice so he knows how to deal with a premier LT.
Here are links to a couple of scouting reports.
http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012nperry.php
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=41125
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Might be salt in the wound since I doubt we get this guy, but here's a scouting report just out on Stephen Hill.
http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012shill.php
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I like Perry - his bust factor would be more of a factor for a team converting him to a 3-4 LB and he's played 3 years at DE and had solid contributions each and every year. His 40, 10 yard, bench press and vertical jump numbers are amazing. I think with proper coaching he'd be able to translate all that athletic ability into adding to his pass rushing repertoire.
Nothing I read says he's a pass rush specialist - he can play the run. And doesn't the NFL test for HGH?
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-03-31/2012-nfl-draft-countdown-sns-no-25-prospect-usc-de-nick-perry
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His 40, 10 yard, bench press and vertical jump numbers are amazing.
So were Mike Mamula's.
I think with proper coaching he'd be able to translate all that athletic ability into adding to his pass rushing repertoire.
Yeah but do the Bears have "proper coaching"? People keep hyping Marinelli yet I've seen very little in the way of player development on the Bears DL during the Lovie regime. Even though we have invested a truckload of draft picks on the DL in recent years (Gaines Adams, Steven Paea, Dvoracek, Marcus Harrison, Jaurron Gilbert, Henry Melton, Corey Wooton), we still have a bottom-10 pass D to show for it.
I will however grant that Perry's body of work from college is more impressive than Mercilus in terms of year to year consistency. Here are Perry's college numbers:
2008 - redshirt
2009 - 13 games, 24 tackles, 9 TFL, 8 sacks
2010 - 12 games, 25 tackles, 7.5 TFL, 4 sacks
2011 - 12 games, 54 tackles, 13 TFL, 9.5 sacks
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Yeah but do the Bears have "proper coaching"? People keep hyping Marinelli yet I've seen very little in the way of player development on the Bears DL during the Lovie regime. Even though we have invested a truckload of draft picks on the DL in recent years (Gaines Adams, Steven Paea, Dvoracek, Marcus Harrison, Jaurron Gilbert, Henry Melton, Corey Wooton), we still have a bottom-10 pass D to show for it.
Adams was on the roster for a few games - he was never drafted or developed by the Bears before he died. Jury is still out on Paea. Melton played running back for most of his career at UT and played one year at defensive end not tackle - 2nd in NFL among DTs in sacks last year. Harrison was mildly useful - not an impact player. Dvorcek was not that bad but was injury prone. Gilbert was a draft bust - he hasn't made it with any other team. Wooten looks like a mid round bust.
Is the failure to develop most of these guys a coaching issue or is a drafting issue?
None of these guys were first or 2nd rounders - your chances of getting pro bowlers on the d-line from 3rd round on are not that good. And bust potential for DEs in round 1 is probably among the highest of any position.
As for Mamula, he was a decent DE in the NFL, just not someone who lived up to the hype he generated being picked at the high end of the first round.
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Well, and that's the persistent question I have about Marinelli. Did he "make" that great DL in Tampa, or did a combination of extremely talented players make him? Based on what I've seen since he left Tampa, I'm inclined to think it's more the latter.
That being said, I'm not against giving Marinelli a 1st-round DL prospect and seeing what he can do with him... I just want to make sure we pick the right guy and I'm not convinced Perry is that guy. And apparently some other scouts have similar questions because even with all the positives in Perry's scouting reports he's still not rated more than about the 25th overall pick in most mocks and some have him going all the way down to the Patriots at the bottom of the 1st. If Perry is really that talented and NFL ready of a player, seems to me he should be in the mocks as a Top 15 pick -- especially given his strong combine showing and that pass rushing DEs are a premium position in the NFL -- yet in the mocks he's consistently going behind Ingram, Coples, Mercilus and even Upshaw in some cases. Something's not adding up with him and that's what makes me nervous.
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I might not like him at 19, but if Mercilus is gone (and others) he might be OK at 20-something in a trade down or early 2nd round.
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Where it really gets sticky is a situation where Coples and Mercilus are gone, Perry is still there but so is Stephen Hill.
At which point, do you trade down a few spots figuring that one of those two will still be available lower in the round, and at a position more commensurate with their value? That's a deal where you'd almost rather have two picks in quick succession from about 22 to 26, as opposed to the 19th and 50th picks as we have now. Especially since the Browns pick at 22 and a lot of mocks have them taking Hill there.
I wonder how much we'd have to add to our 2nd round pick to get back into the bottom of Round 1? I'm not sure Emery wants to go totally nuts with trade-ups / trade-downs in his first draft with the Bears but I think he has to at least consider some of those scenarios if we get to 19 and the value just isn't there.
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Any kind of a trade up will be tough. Bears not only need quality players but they could a quantity of them.
We've put a band aid on CB. But we still have needs for depth at safety, LB, DE, and now DT, to go along with offensive needs at WR and LT.
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But we still have needs for depth at safety, LB, DE, and now DT, to go along with offensive needs at WR and LT.
Thats' why I feel like our 1st round DL pick needs to be a big-bodied, long guy that can rush from either DE or DT as situations warrant. Not an OLB/DE tweener like Perry. We have too many other needs to spend a 1st rounder on a rush DE and then turn around and drop our 2nd or 3rd rounder on a DT. There are ways to kill two birds with one stone and Emery needs to make that happen since he's the one that let Okoye walk.
Not to mention, going against guys like Rogers and Stafford, it's much more important to get pressure up the middle and have long arms batting down passes then it is to have a speed guy trying to get there from the blindside. Those QBs routinely get the ball out in 2 to 2.5 seconds and no DE can get to the QB that quickly no matter how fast he gets off the snap unless the LT just totally blows his assignment.
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I think we have seen improvement by Melton and Paea and Izzzy since Marinelli has been here. Harrison it seems was just one of those guys that you couldn't motivate to get in shape and play hard. Marinelli can't help someone who won't work hard. I'm unsure about Wooton but he seems to be hurt a lot.
I expect we let Okoye walk because he was a situational guy here and we weren't going to overpay for a situational guy. Tampa might see him as a starter.
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Yeah but if we draft a rush DE that's a situational player too. And he'll cost a lot more than Okoye. Just sayin.
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While Okoye had a decent season he wasnt a stud. And maybe his numbers last year was because of who he was next to. True we need depth and he could have supplied that at a reasonable price. IMHO Emery might have turned off Okoye who was likely interested in a contract longer than one year. At Okoye's age he should have gotten a multi-year contract. But it is what it is and time to move on.
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Interesting that Okoye only signed a one-year deal with the Bucs, too.
That makes me wonder it there was a personality issue between Okoye and the coaches and/or Emery. It seems like for a guy of his young age and potential we didn't try very hard to keep him... and it doesn't seem like it took a very lucrative offer to pull him away.
Or maybe he was just looking for more playing time than he was going to get in the Bears' rotating DT system.
This is one I'd really like to hear Emery explain a little more cause I don't see how we'll wind up getting a better guy than Okoye without spending a valuable draft pick that could have been used to strengthen another position.
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That one year contract was strange. Maybe he wanted to play in a warmer climate. Oh well.
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Or maybe he was just looking for more playing time than he was going to get in the Bears' rotating DT system.
Agreed. Okoye knew that Paea would probably get more snaps at his expense.
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So basically all the FAs Angelo brought in last offseason, except Spaeth, are gone. And except for Okoye all have already been replaced with players at least as good or better.
- Hurd - gone (to jail), replaced by Devin Thomas
- Barber - retired, replaced by Bush
- Roy Williams - gone, replaced by Marshall
- Okoye - gone, replaced by ??
And honestly, if I were Spaeth I'd be keeping my head on a swivel. There are 5 TEs currently on the Bears roster and if one of those cheap younger guys shows enough in training camp, he could be a goner before opening day as well.
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Good point. Agreed.
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I like Matt Spaeth. He was perfect in his role last year when he was often asked to block 1 on 1 on DEs and seal the edge on our frequent outside runs.
This year though they may want more receiving out of the position - I think he can handle it but he might have to fight the youngins to keep the #2 spot on the depth chart.
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I'm a little down on Spaeth right now cause it was his whiffed block that ended Forte's season.
That being said, that wasn't the easiest block to make and if our OL was better we wouldn't need our TEs to block so much anyway.
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I'm a little down on Spaeth right now cause it was his whiffed block that ended Forte's season.
And are you down on Knox cuz he slipped and that ended Cutler's season?
Sh*t happens - it's all part of the game.
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Don't tell folks that. Some are upset at Knox for having the nerve to slip on that play you're talking about like he did it on purpose or whatever.
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Spaeth's a decent player. If we can upgrade for less money, fine, but if not he does more good than bad for us so no problems.
What I really want to see is Kellen Davis finally get his chances and take advantage. That's where the story's at for us at TE this year as far as I'm concerned. If he doesn't take the next step maybe we look for an upgrade in the draft next year but we've got enough other needs to occupy this year's selections. The TE class this year is weak anyway.
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Lets not forget Spaeth had a couple of TD catches last year. He is solid.
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Green Bay - The anecdotal stories are spreading. Large men who do extraordinary things captivate our imaginations each April. We're enamored by glimpses of greatness.
Go ahead and blame Jason Pierre-Paul and all of his back flips. This year offers another batch of athletic freaks of nature.
Melvin Ingram, now a 264-pound pass rusher, played point guard in high school. One day at high school basketball practice, Mississippi State defensive tackle Fletcher Cox shattered the backboard.
West Virginia defensive end Bruce Irvin ran the 40-yard dash in a blazing 4.4 seconds. Zach Brown, the linebacker from North Carolina? Another 4.4 guy who was an undefeated 29-0 wrestler in high school.
And Dontari Poe? A downright frightening human being.
We could go on for days. Such athletic feats make for good TV and attract thousands of clicks online. But for every Chris Johnson, there's a Vernon Gholston. A combine performance doesn't tell all. It's one tool. More important is the raw film itself, the body of work.
The Green Bay Packers will have a chance at drafting a workout warrior with some wild, science-defying back story.
But in two weeks, expect Ted Thompson and the Packers brass to stick to the tape.
Does this potential 3-4 defensive end make everyone around him better? Does that pass rusher stay technically sound all game? How much information did this safety process in his defensive scheme? These are the questions Green Bay must answer.
The "Wow" factor has been a trap before. Once upon a time, 300-pound Justin Harrell ran the 40 in 5.04 seconds. His athleticism was captured on one interception returned for a touchdown.
And we won't write Mike Neal off here yet, but the defensive end's Arnold-like habits in the weight room have seemed to net more injuries than tackles.
Fletcher Cox's strange background - in addition to playing basketball, he ran the second leg of his 4x100 relay in high school - is intriguing. Still, he realizes his experience playing different positions along the Bulldogs' front probably means more than that day in the basketball gym.
"Some college schools only play a 4-3, and the defensive tackles never get a chance to play end," Cox said. "They don't mix it around. They play just one position and have a hard time adjusting.
"At Mississippi State, I played the 3 technique, nose guard and I also played the 5 technique. And I also dropped back in coverage sometimes."
Unless Thompson trades up, Cox likely will be out of Green Bay's range. He is slotted as a top 10 overall pick in several national mock drafts. Athleticism helps, though Cox doesn't believe it's his No. 1 strength.
"It has a little bit to do with it, but I'd say the thing that has gotten me so far is being humble, real humble," he said. "I'm quiet and don't talk a whole lot. Always have to work hard. I always want to be myself and not try to be anybody else. I'm always myself."
At No. 28 overall, the Packers will encounter some boom-or-bust prospects.
USC's Nick Perry was lights out in Indianapolis. Across the board, he graded out as the next big thing off the edge. A menace. Flip on the tape, however, and he blends in.
Perry was so-so against the run and wasn't always in fifth gear against the pass. In a pro scheme that features his rare physical tools, maybe Perry wreaks havoc.
But here's thinking the Packers are more apt to lean toward someone like Boise State's Shea McClellin, a player whose four-quarter motor is not in question.
McClellin juggled multiple responsibilities in college and excelled. Inside. Outside. On the line. Rushing the passer.
It was the Boise way, he said. The school recruited a certain type of athlete. And McClellin grew up on a farm.
"Just working hard," he said. "You're always working hard out on the field, no matter what you're doing. I think the transition into the high school and the college game, working hard in the weight room and off-season conditioning is a strength."
The three months leading up to the NFL draft are full of smoke and mirrors and nonsense. Prospects are demonized for one or two mistakes they made off the field as college freshmen.
And they're also worshipped for oddball YouTube videos of them jumping out of pools or, yes, doing back flips. The reality always lies somewhere in between.
The best thing a general manager can do is stick to the football, stick to their instincts. This year, that'd be Thompson's best plan of attack.
Send email to tdunne@journalsentinel.com
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Good article. I hope that the Bears new GM takes as logical approach as Thompson and doesn't fall for the combine freak but looks at the whole body of work and how well a kid is likely to fit into the system with minimal adjustment.
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I liked what was said about Cox. He sounds like a good addition to the Bears if he is there at #19
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Quite a few mocks have Cox going to the Eagles at 15 so dont get your hopes too high.
Still can't believe the Eagles (and Chargers) have picks ahead of us...
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PFT has us taking Mercilus
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/09/2012-mock-draft-take-two/
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And the new WalterFootball mock, just out today, has Fletcher Cox going in the Top 10 to Carolina and Coples falling to the Bears at 19. That wouldn't bother me at all.
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Louisiana-Lafayette tight end Ladarius Green should be a coveted commodity in the 2012 NFL Draft for teams that took notice of the spectacular season posted by the New Orleans Saints' Jimmy Graham.
Green racked up a career-high 51 receptions and eight touchdowns in 2011, while his 606 yards fell short of the prior year's 794 on just 44 grabs (18.0 per reception).
Major upside
Strengths
•Great height at 6-foot-5 3/4 and large wingspan (34 1/2-inch arms)
•Red zone target with good vertical jump (34 1/2 inches)
•Big-play ability
•Respectable route runner
•Strong, large hands (10 1/8 inches) - catches away from his body
•Ball security
•Quick feet - smooth release; uses hands to gain separation at the line
•A wealth of upside
•Good speed for the position (4.53-second 40-yard dash)
•Known to be a hard worker
Weaknesses
•Minor injury concerns (missed five career games because of ankle and neck injuries)
•Skinny build - only 238 pounds at 6-foot-5 3/4
•Will struggle to maintain blocks in the NFL
•Raw, somewhat one-dimensional player
•Has a tendency to turn upfield before securing the ball
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Green sounds like a no-brainer if he's there for us in the 4th.
We've already got 5 TEs but if you consider him a really big WR vs a TE you can find a spot for him.
Or, get 60 more pounds on that 6'6 frame and you've got a nice LT :D
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Green sounds like a no-brainer if he's there for us in the 4th.
We've already got 5 TEs but if you consider him a really big WR vs a TE you can find a spot for him.
Or, get 60 more pounds on that 6'6 frame and you've got a nice LT :D
A quasi blocker and a hell of a WR.
Two for one.
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Or, get 60 more pounds on that 6'6 frame and you've got a nice LT
Maybe he should have talked to Nick Perry's pharmicist before the combine?
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Or, get 60 more pounds on that 6'6 frame and you've got a nice LT
Maybe he should have talked to Nick Perry's pharmicist before the combine?
Somtime blocker ... fulltime WR. ;D
Hey Cutler ... you need help with an occasional block and pass receiving?
Think about it. Two for one.
Gimme TWO!
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NFL Network app on my RAZR has us taking Floyd.....eh I'd be ok with that. It said it would give us a 'scary one/two punch' paired with Marshall...I like the sound of that 8}
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I like Stephen Hill. I can't see Lovie and Emery passing on him if he's there at #19.
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Of course. A raw player, playing in a non-NFL scheme? Just what a new GM needs to gamble on so he looks like his predecessor. He needs to take sure things and improve the team
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Unless Floyd pulls another DUI in the next 2 weeks, he's long gone by 19. His combine and Pro Day boosted his stock a good 10-15 slots.
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NFL Network app on my RAZR has us taking Floyd.....eh I'd be ok with that. It said it would give us a 'scary one/two punch' paired with Marshall...I like the sound of that 8}
Floyds numbers are climbing the charts out of our reach ... butdamn wouldI like him.
Unless Floyd pulls another DUI in the next 2 weeks, he's long gone by 19. His combine and Pro Day boosted his stock a good 10-15 slots.
I know ...and it sucks. DECASTRO is projected at 18 ... can Emery trade UP one spot?
Decastro is projected as a ten year PRO BOWLER.
Which would make Cutler 36 after ten years ... Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Stephen Hill probably has more of a ceiling than any of the guys we've discussed at 19...Martin, Mercilus, Perry, etc.
I just don't see a meat and potatoes guy like Emery going with the flashy WR pick. I hope I'm wrong.
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If its gonna be a WR in the 1st then PLEASE, Hill over Wright.
We can get a small speed guy in the 3rd if that's really a need and if were gonna keep playing Hester at WR we've already got that guy on the roster anyway.
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I keep saying it. IMHO Emery goes DL in the 1st. Hill isnt a value at #19 and Floyd will be gone. They wont go OT. They think their line is OK.
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I dunno... a 6'4, 215-lb WR who can run sub 4.4 seems like a pretty good value to me. Unless you're looking for a guy who can start from Day One and give you a lot of snaps out of the gate... then Hill may not be your guy. But in terms of sheer physical tools and upside, he's the best WR in this class by a wide margin and has the potential to make the GMs who took other WRs ahead of him look like real idiots 2-3 years down the road.
My gut tells me that if Mercilus is there, he'll be our pick -- even if Hill is still on the board. DL is the one unit Emery has steadfastly refused to address up till now and in fact has allowed to "weaken" through the losses of Adams and Okoye. Mercilus is coming off a huge year against quality Big 10 OTs, he has the frame and athleticism that Lovie and Marinelli crave, he is not a liability against the run, he has the "hometown connection" based on his college and based on the mocks I've seen 19 is right in the range of where his value is projected to be.
Now if Mercilus is gone but Hill is still there, it MAY be Hill and then we take the best available D-Lineman in the 2nd. Don't discount the possibility of that 2nd round pick being a DT or DT/DE swing player instead of a pure rush DE on the theory that by improving our inside "push", the DEs we already have will be able to step it up.
If Mercilus and Hill are both gone by 19, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned. It could be a guy who's not even at a position of major need if Emery feels the value is too good to pass up.
I see very little chance we trade down in the 1st and no chance whatsoever that we trade up.
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I like Hill but he's not a no-brainer. Playing WR isn't just about straight ahead speed. From what I've heard about him is that his pass patterns in college were pretty simple. Can he translate that speed with the quick cuts to get open on intermediate patterns? Does he have quality hands - has anyone read anything on the number of drops he's had? Is he someone you can count on on 3rd and 10?
If the Bears think Hill is capable of doing all that then they need to take him at 19. If they want to gamble they can consider a trade down but most likely when #19 comes around the Bears will have a player or two with a big circle around his name.
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Hmmm...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-chicago-bears-looking-at-oregon-state-db-prospect-brandon-hardin-20120412,0,2719358.story
DB with amazing measurables, but made of glass. Maybe worth a 6th rounder... nothing higher, IMO.
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If they want to **** they can consider a trade down but most likely when #19 comes around the Bears will have a player or two with a big circle around his name.
Agreed. Emery's first draft as a bona fide GM is not the time to get cute, trade down a few spots to squeeze out another mid-round pick... and wind up losing out on a legitimate playmaker (or two). 19 isn't as high as a lot of us would have liked, but it's still a spot we're almost certain to find a quality player at one of our several positions of need.
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Unless you're looking for a guy who can start from Day One and give you a lot of snaps out of the gate... then Hill may not be your guy.
Isnt that what you do with 1st roud picks? Thats why I think Hill shouldnt be the pick at #19. If he sits on the bench like Bennett did then he is a waste. Idont think Hill is a value at #19. Top of the 2nd sure, #19, no. Measurables arent everything in a WR, its production. He just wasnt in the right system to get that production. He is a bust risk, plain and simple. I cant believe Emery gambles like that in his first draft as a GM.
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I can't disagree with much of what you say, but the WR position lends itself to part time play as opposed to offensive line or QB or CB. Assuming Hill has the ability to pick up the offense he could be given quite a few plays a game. How much worse could he be than Sanzenbacher or Hester or the STer from the Giants? Plus we know Hill has the size and the willingness to block so he could be an asset that department.
Maybe he's not worthy of #19 but you might be able to swing a short trade down of a spot or two to minimize the risk of him getting swiped and pick up a 4th rounder or improve your lie in the 3rd round with a swap.
But as I said I do agree with you that I don't think Emery will wheel and deal and I don't think he will take such a high risk/reward guy like Hill with his first pick. Expect a lineman.
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I hope you're wrong. Hill is EXACTLY the WR we need to give Cutler another weapon. I'm sure Cutler would be thrilled to have Hill to throw to.
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The biggest thing Hill would bring to us right off the bat is insurance in the event Brandon Marshall flakes out or gets hurt.
As it stands, our WR corps minus Marshall is:
- Devin Thomas, 6'2 221
- Earl Bennett, 6' 206
- Devin Hester, 5'11 190
- Dane Sanzebacher, 5'11 180
- Eric Weems, 5'9 195
Wow. That's weak. Essentially it's the same cast of characters we had last year, with Devin Thomas replacing Roy Williams and Weems replacing Johnny Knox (but with less speed). If we lose Marshall in that situation Cutler is no better off than he was last year and possibly worse.
But if you plug the 6'4 Hill into that group, things look a whole lot better.
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I say he brings more to the table than insurance. His speed along side Marshall can only make this offense scarier. That's why Vincent Jackson was sought after heavily this offseason.
Hill makes this offense more respected than what we have already. Go get 'em Phil!
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Does anyone else find the timing of the Lance Briggs extension a bit odd?
That really hit me out of left field and feels like something that could have been tabled at least till the draft was over, if not quite awhile longer.
Two weeks out from the draft and you're negotiating an extension with a guy who still has a good amount of time to go on his current deal. Really? Did they think he was gonna start blowing off OTAs or something?
I like Briggs and I'm not against locking him up for the rest of his career but that's not something that had to be done right now, IMO. But maybe there are other things going on behind the scenes at Halas Hall that us regular schmoes don't know about.
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I've said my piece on Hill. I still think he is overrated considering the system he was in at Georgia Tech. Its not like GT plays in the SEC either. Even if he isnt a bust I believe it will take him a lot longer to be field ready for the Bears. Some of you are blinded by his physicals. Some think he will be field ready instantly. I dont believe that. I'd believe the man in the moon eats green cheese before I believed that.
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Yea but ya know what? Maybe they wanna make sure Briggs doesn't pull some crap and try to sit out for more money. They wanna make sure he is solidly IN camp so they can address other need areas instead of getting caught with their pants down by a LB..
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Maybe it will get Forte's agent to rationalize his situation
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The pot is getting smaller by the day...
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It is getting smaller
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Or they're gonna put Briggs up for a draft-day trade and wanted to get the contract set so the other team knows what they're taking on.
I think that's a less than 10% possibility since we have absolutely no one to replace him... but the thought did cross my mind (since they did it this close to the draft)... and since none of us really knows Emery's M.O. yet, anything is possible.
But the contract is pretty heavy on the front end -- which would actually be a deterrent to a lot of trading partners who have already maxed out their cap or are getting close -- so I don't think that's why they got the deal done now. I think it's more a matter of, it had to be done sometime and both parties were able to come to agreement quickly so why not get that checked off the list.
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I know nothing about the contract but if part of his compensation was a signing bonus it could have the effect of reducing the cap hit in this year.
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Someplace a day or two ago was an article breaking down Briggs' deal structure. I'll try to find the link (I think it was PFT), but meanwhile here's a high-level blurb from the Trib:
The new contract gives Briggs more security with what amounts to a virtual guarantee of $8.25 million over the next two years. He can earn $12 million through 2013 and the numbers are manageable for an aging player in 2014.
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Here's a cut-and-paste from the PFT article breaking down the Briggs deal:
Per a league source, Briggs’ new deal pays $17.5 million over three years, $5 million of which is fully guaranteed. (As a practical matter, another $3.25 million is guaranteed, given that it’s highly unlikely the Bears will cut him this year.)
In 2012, Briggs gets $3 million to sign, a $3 million base salary, and a $250,000 workout bonus. That gives him $6.25 million; under his prior deal he would have earned $4 million.
Next year, Briggs is due to receive a $1 million roster bonus in June and a $4.5 million base salary, $2 million of which is fully guaranteed. He also is eligible for a $250,000 workout bonus. It’s a payout of $5.75 million. Under the prior deal, he would have earned $6.5 million in non-guaranteed base salary.
In 2014, Briggs is due to receive a $500,000 roster bonus in June and a non-guaranteed base salary of $4.75 million. He also is eligible to receive a $25,000 workout bonus.
I'm no expert on these matters, but it strikes me as a pretty good deal for both sides. Briggs gets a nice chunk of change (much of it guaranteed) over the next two years, and the Bears have a reasonably easy out in 2014 if his skills have declined considerably by then.
Maybe Forte needs to fire his agent and hire Briggs'.
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I dont know, but it just seems that money is shifted up front instad of being backloaded. Maybe I am reading it wrong
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It is front-loaded. That makes it easier for the Bears to dump out of the last year (or try to trade him) if Briggs doesn't fit into their plans by that point.
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Hey did I post Laderrious GREEN on this board or was that a different board?
Anyway he's a TE from somwhere.
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That looks like a smartly worked contract. Load it more to the front so if and when he fades the next few years, his pay gets adjusted accordingly.
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Hey did I post Laderrious GREEN on this board or was that a different board?
Anyway he's a TE from somwhere.
No seriously, keep your eye on him as a third rounder.
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It's time to start thinking about the third round .
CB-TE-LB ... jesus.
Whats the quality out there for us in the third?
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NFL Channel yesterday talking about tackle Jon Martin said a scout said he would be the most over drafted player this year.
He was "owned" by Nick Perry when they played USC.
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Nick Perry couldn't have - heard he's just a combine freak.
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I am hoping like hell we got a guy who can see NFL talent. Angelo said he could but really missed more then he hit. Glad he is gone. Emery will show what he is with this draft.
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Shiit ...
IMPACT ... Floyd ... DeCastro ... round one.
Floyd on the other side of Marshall ...
DeCastro a ten year PRO-BOWLER ...
you cant have both ... but you better have one. :D
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Here is an interesting look at whats out there at OT and what Emery will be looking at
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0415-web-nfl-draft-offensive-tackles--20120415,0,5813661.story
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Stephenson from Oklahoma looks to be a 3rd round pick. I also like Massie.
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Why is the Trib even running an article on OT draft prospects? I thought "we like the guys we've got."
:-\
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Not sure what Pompie is smoking. He said DeCastro might not even be drafted in the first round.
1. David DeCastro, Stanford, 6-5, 316:
He is big, tough and physical. The underclassmen is a better run blocking than in pass protection. He locks on to defenders and sustains his blocks. DeCastro is a no-nonsense player who has top intangibles and should play for a decade or more. He is not an elite talent, however. Some have talked about moving him to right tackle, but many scouts think that would be a reach.
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Pompeii is full of it. DeCastro won't drop past 15 and may go Top 12.
And I'm not sure where he got that "not an elite talent" blurb from. Comparisons to Steve Hutchinson are frequent and widespread.
He would immediately be the best O-Lineman on more than a few teams' rosters, including the Bears.
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Bears draft preview: Tackle
April, 15, 2012
Apr 15, 11:39 AM CT
By Michael C. Wright | ESPNChicago.com
Regarding the upcoming NFL draft, Chicago’s situation at offensive tackle seems to be one of extremes.
On one hand, the team indicates a level of comfort with the current group at the position, which includes Gabe Carimi and J’Marcus Webb as the starters. On the other, there’s trepidation about whether Carimi, a year removed from being selected in the first round, will fully recover from last year’s season-ending knee injury combined with uneasiness about continuing with Webb as quarterback Jay Cutler’s blindside protector.
Bears coach Lovie Smith spoke about the position -- specifically Webb -- back in March at the NFL owners meetings.
“Every tackle in the league can look bad at times,” Smith said. “There are some things you have to do to help him out a little bit more at times, which we plan to do. You can make a case and throw out stats on what [Webb] did, but I think it’s hard for all tackles in the league to block Julius Peppers from time to time. We have a good plan at the left tackle. We have all our options open right now. But if we end up playing J’Marcus Webb at left tackle next year, we’ll be comfortable with that.”
But what happens if one of the top prospects falls into the team’s lap at No. 19 later this month during the NFL Draft?
While addressing the team’s aging defense or adding to the receiver position seems to make the most sense, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see the team bolster tackle in the draft, whether through a first-round pick or later selection. The team appears to be interested in adding at the position at some point prior to the start of training camp.
The club reportedly held a private workout with Oklahoma tackle Donald Stephenson, projected to be a fourth- or fifth-round pick.
Publicly, though, the team maintains confidence in the current group. According to Pro Football Focus, Webb ranked as the worst full-time starter at left tackle in the NFL in 2011, and was responsible for 38 quarterback pressures. Furthermore, Webb was penalized a team-high 15 times, resulting in eight stalled drives.
Smith said that adding an offensive tackle in free agency would have sent the wrong message.
“That would be saying we don’t feel comfortable with our left tackle, and that’s not the case.”
Perhaps it will be during the NFL draft.
TOP 10 TACKLES
Player
School
Proj. Rd.
1. Matt Kalil
USC RND1
2. Riley Reiff
Iowa RND 1
3. Jonathan Martin
, Stanford RND 1
4. Mike Adams
Ohio State RND 1-2
5. Bobbie Massie
Mississippi RND 1-2
6. Jeff Allen
Illinois RND 2-3
7. Mitchell Schwartz
California RND 3
8. Brandon Mosley
Auburn RND 3-4
9. Donald Stephenson
Oklahoma RND 4-5
10. Zebrie Sanders
Florida State RND 4-5
The next 10: 11. Tom Compton, South Dakota, 6-5, 314; 12. Matt McCants, Alabama-Birmingham, 6-6, 308; 13. Matt Reynolds, Brigham Young, 6-5, 302; 14. Tony Bergstrom, Utah, 6-5, 313; 15. Nate Potter, Boise State, 6-6, 303; 16. Andrew Datko, Florida State, 6-6, 315; 17. Jeff Adams, Columbia, 6-6, 306; 18. Bryce Harris, Fresno State, 6-6, 302; 19. Lamar Holmes, Southern Mississippi, 6-5, 323; 20. Marcel Jones, Nebraska, 6-6, 320.
Position grade: B.
Analysis: Some of the anticipated changes to the Bears' offense might alleviate the need to acquire an offensive tackle during the draft, and open the door for more upgrades on defense. Perhaps that’s why the Bears continue to say they’re fine up front. It’s important to note that of the 23 sacks Cutler suffered in 10 games, 18 of them came in the first five games before the Bears made changes to get the ball out of the quarterback’s hands more quickly, while adding help in the protection by keeping in tight ends and sending running backs to the edges to chip. The Bears expect to do more of that in 2012, which is why it’s highly unlikely the team targets an offensive tackle high in the draft.
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11. Donald Stephenson, Oklahoma, 6-5, 312: He is one of the most athletic blockers in the draft, which makes him a prime candidate to play on the left side. He showed his movement skills with a good scouting combine workout. Stephenson plays tall at times. He is not a finished product, but he has excellent upside.
From Pompei
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I wonder if Stephenson is related to the former Pro Bowl C for the Dolphins.
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Bears draft preview: Guards
April, 14, 2012
Apr 14 9:00 AM CT
By Michael C. Wright | ESPNChicago.com
The Chicago Bears' courtship of veterans guards such as Minnesota’s Anthony Herrera and former Cleveland Brown Eric Steinbach indicate the team -- despite what management has said about being comfortable with the protection -- seeks an upgrade at the position.
But the current situation might not be dire enough for the club to use the No. 19 pick on a seemingly can’t-miss prospect such as Stanford guard David DeCastro -- should he fall to the Bears -- given the team’s myriad needs on defense. So while a quality guard remains a strong consideration for the Bears at No. 19, it’s more likely the team would look to address the position in the late rounds or with undrafted free agents.
TOP 10 GUARDS
1. David DeCastro
Stanford RND 1
2. Cordy Glenn
Georgia RND 1
3. Kevin Zeitler
Wisconsin RND 1-2
4. Amini Silatolu
Midwestern State RND 2
5. Brandon Brooks
Miami (Ohio) RND 2-3
6. James Brown
Troy RND 3
7. Brandon Washington
Miami RND 3-4
8. Senio Kelemete
Washington RND 4-5
9. Lucas Nix
Pittsburgh RND 4-5
10. Rishaw Johnson
California (Pa.) RND 5-6
The fact the team reportedly worked out Memphis guard Ronald Leary -- projected to be a late-round pick -- indicates its leaning that direction.
Realistically, the Bears possess plenty of talent and depth on the current roster at guard. But the team’s NFL ranking (30th) on runs up the middle can’t be ignored. The Bears averaged 3.3 yards per attempt on runs up the middle, and the running backs never broke off a 20-yard plus carry on runs through the interior, according to ESPN Stats and Information. Such meager numbers point to a deficiency at the guard position.
Besides that, perhaps the team has learned from last season that even too much depth might never be enough. After all, injuries resulted in offensive linemen missing a combined 24 games, which wreaked havoc on timing, and consistency, and ultimately weakened protection in the passing game.
The next 10: 11. Joe Looney, Wake Forest, 6-3, 309; 12. Josh LeRibeus, Southern Methodist, 6-3, 312; 13. Adam Gettis, Iowa, 6-2, 293; 14. Ryan Miller, Colorado, 6-7, 321; 15. Andrew Tiller, Syracuse, 6-5, 324; 16. Desmond Wynn, Rutgers, 6-6, 303; 17. Ronald Leary, Memphis, 6-3, 315; 18. James Brooks, Virginia Tech, 6-3, 315; 19. Derek Dennis, Temple, 6-3, 315; 20. Antoine McClain, Clemson, 6-6, 329.
Position grade: A-.
Analysis: Over the years, the value of guards has increased because teams are becoming more vigilant about strengthening the inside of the pocket, which allows quarterbacks to better step into throws. There’s a slight chance that two of the top prospects -- DeCastro and Glenn -- could in the top 20. Although the Bears could stand to upgrade at guard, the team has other pressing needs it must first address; especially on defense.
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I have seen Cordy Glenn going to the Bears in a couple of mocks but realistically I don't think that happens. Glenn is exactly the type of O-Lineman that Mike Tice craves but ultimately our pick is gonna be a DE or maybe Hill. I think our coaches are tired of seeing Peppers getting double-teamed, held or chop-blocked on every play and they want to bring in someone on the other side who can make teams pay for doing that.
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While I seriously doubt the Bears use a pick in the 1st 3 rounds on anybody on the Oline, I still believe where there is smoke there is fire. I expect late rounds to be where they address the Oline, with possibly Stephenson and possibly a guard
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"According to Pro Football Focus, Webb ranked as the worst full-time starter at left tackle in the NFL in 2011"
Um, we have been saying that for how long? LOL
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So basically we would be looking to upgrade guys like Edwin Williams and Levi Horn, vs. drafting immediate starters.
OK I guess, but then one of those guys had better be a C who can eventually start because Garza doesn't have much left in the tank. I give him this season and maybe next at the most.
Emery would be GM of the Year if he could find a Day One starter at LT in the 4th round but that simply doesn't happen these days.
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"According to Pro Football Focus, Webb ranked as the worst full-time starter at left tackle in the NFL in 2011"
Um, we have been saying that for how long? LOL
Exactly. You can apply whatever ranking formulas and algorithms and any other statistical mumbo-jumpo you want but all you have to do is turn on the game tapes. Webb just hasn't been getting it done. And our offense will continue to be less than it could be until he either gets a lot better, or is replaced by somebody that is.
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I still believe they draft Defense in rounds 1-3 and maybe round 4 too
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So basically we would be looking to upgrade guys like Edwin Williams and Levi Horn, vs. drafting immediate starters.
OK I guess, but then one of those guys had better be a C who can eventually start because Garza doesn't have much left in the tank. I give him this season and maybe next at the most.
Emery would be GM of the Year if he could find a Day One starter at LT in the 4th round but that simply doesn't happen these days.
Basically I see draftees as upgrades to the overall talent rather than day one starters. It would definitely improve the competition. Maybe it increases the competition to the point that late in the season we see more of the rookies and in case of injury we have somebody to plug in whereas we didnt have that luxury last year
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in case of injury we have somebody to plug in whereas we didnt have that luxury last year
Yeah... a quality swing backup OT is a must. With the exception of one bad game, Lance Louis did admirably playing out of position at RT after Carimi went down but we need a true OT we can plug in for Carimi if he goes down again this year.
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Stephenson seems to be who they are targeting although I really dont know much about him except for the height and weight notables. I see him projected to be a 4th-5th round pick. From the description of him I saw he seemed too good to last till the 4th round. I'd sure hate to have to wait till the 4th and have him gone and I'd sure hate to use a 3rd on him. It'd be nice to have an extra 4th to spend.
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I'm think with the depth in the draft at WR and OT - maybe the Bears draft the DE first then go after the WR in round 2 and the swing tackle (project) in round 3.
Round 4, 5, 6, and 7: you try to get lucky and draft some depth at CB, another O-lineman, another WR, and another defender at safety or linebacker.
Or do the Bears even go after any OT in the draft? Maybe they believe that Webb and Carimi will be the starters and that Lance Louis and Chris Williams can back them up with Spencer filling in at guard for either Williams or Louis?
Right now I'm still thinking that there's a 40% chance we draft Martin and 40% will go after the best DE and drafting a WR in round 1 ...maybe 20% chance.
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Maybe the Bears draft the DE first then go after the WR in round 2 and the swing tackle (project) in round 3.[/i]
This is the scenario I'd go with if I had to put money down on it. If you assume that a starting OT is not considered a primary need then these three picks seem to match need with value the best. The 2nd round of this draft looks to be loaded with bigger, "possession-plus" WR types (Jeffery, Sanu, Randle, McNutt, Quick) who are exactly what we need as the #2 opposite Marshall so that's where I'm thinking we pick up a WR if we don't go all-in with Hill in the 1st.
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I'm thinking its DE or DT or a combo type guy who can play anywhere on the line in the 1st.Then maybe like Yap says a WR in round 2. Round 3 maybe a safety or a CB. 4-7 BPA with OLine shored up
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It will be interesting to see how Emery & Co. prioritize the D-Backfield vs. the OL when we get to rounds 3 and 4.
IMO, we are more in need of quality depth and development prospects on the OL than we are at CB and S. Webb is a huge question mark. If this is as good as he's gonna get, it's not good enough. Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi showed promise last year but they are both fragile. Garza is getting old. Chris Spencer and Lance Louis are probably the lowest risk guys among the O-Linemen right now but you need more than 2 O-Linemen on your roster that don't have any major question marks attached.
In other words, if we're in Round 3 and there are equally rated players at OL, CB and S, then the O-Lineman should be the pick. And theoretically, if we go DE in Round 1 then the increased pressure up front should allow us to get by with mid-tier DBs (which is what we have now).
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Emery was supposedly hired because of his drafting ability. Given his current workings he sure does give me hope. Hell, who knows? The Bears may actually draft someone that can start right off the bat, stay healthy and produce! Wouldn't that be a wonder?
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See what bugs me is the Bears send out signals they like certain players by going to pro days or they bring players in for workouts other GMs pick up on this as well as us fans. It labels the Bears by position. Like the ND pro day where Emery went to ND and watched the workout of Floyd and Harrison Smith. And Tice went to Wisky to watch the OLmen there. Lovie went to watch some players. We fans know the Bears needs. We see them. I just hope the Bears are smart enough to get some of the talent they have looked at. I sure liked the sound of Stephenson in the 4th. They need an athletic swing tackle. I dont believe they necessarily need a CB but they could use a DE and a DT and a WR.
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If a DL is indeed the 1st round pick it will be interesting to see whether they go with a multi-position guy like Coples or Fletcher Cox, or a pure outside guy like Mercilus, Upshaw or Perry. Assuming availability of course, but IMO the bust risk for the pure DEs is quite a bit higher than the multi-position guys. If Coples or Cox doesn't work out at DE we'd still probably have a pretty good DT. But if we take Mercilus or Upshaw or Perry and their college production doesn't translate against NFL LTs, we're screwed and we will have and wasted a[nother] 1st round pick.
Plus, with the way offenses are designed now to get the ball out quickly and with LTs being allowed to hold with impunity, you have to be something truly special to make an impact as a speed-rushing DE anymore.
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Agree. If the Bears (I still wonder why) go defense AGAIN, need some beef in the middle to train wreck the center.
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Here's another DL prospect that has been flying under the radar till recently cause he missed a lot of last season hurt (and Syracuse was terrible):
http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/DE/Chandler-Jones.php
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=38258
He's coming off a major injury, needs development and does not have elite pass rushing skills... so he would really be a questionable choice in the Top 20. But he might be worth our 2nd rounder if we address another position in the 1st.
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An extremely intriguing physical specimen who is essentially a raw ball of clay waiting to be molded.
Well if you believe the Marinelli hype, he would be worth it.
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An extremely intriguing physical specimen who is essentially a raw ball of clay waiting to be molded.
In other words... not a Day One starter and therefore, not worthy of a 1st round pick and especially in the Top 20.
Gaines Adams was a physical specimen too. So was John Thierry, and Alonzo Spellman.
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Spellman was who I immediately associated with that tag
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NFL draft: Bears’ No. 1 priority tough to figure
BY MARK POTASH mpotash@suntimes.com April 15, 2012 10:04PM
Updated: April 16, 2012 10:05AM
What do the Bears need in the upcoming NFL draft? Don’t ask.
New general manager Phil Emery addresses his team’s weaknesses with the same philosophy as he does with his team’s strengths.
‘‘The more information you put out . . . the more advantage you give your opponents to outdo you in the draft — jump in front of you, understand where you’re going,’’ Emery said. ‘‘We don’t ever want to put ourselves in that position.’’
Emery doesn’t have to say a word, as long as he acknowledges the Bears’ weaknesses as clearly as he did with the acquisition of Pro Bowl wide receiver Brandon Marshall in free agency. A big-play receiver has been an obvious void to many Bears observers for years, especially after former GM Jerry Angelo finally filled the previous obvious void by acquiring a ‘‘franchise’’ quarterback in Jay Cutler.
Angelo acknowledged the impact of big, big-play receivers, but he resisted the notion that the Bears needed one to go with Cutler, who had his best success in Denver with the 6-4 Marshall as his primary target. Emery not only got a Pro Bowl wide receiver six weeks after he was hired, but he got the one his quarterback wanted.
The Bears are doing their best to keep everybody guessing. Maybe that’s why coach Lovie Smith, straying from the company line just a bit, hinted last week that the Bears might draft an offensive lineman with their first-round pick.
‘‘You just never know,’’ Smith said. ‘‘We have the 19th pick in the draft this year, right? It’s good to have all of our picks. Not to say that we’re going to take an offensive lineman, but that will give you something else to think about.’’
Mock drafts can’t pinpoint the Bears’ biggest need. ESPN’s Mel Kiper has the Bears taking Illinois defensive end Whitney Mercilus at No. 19, and colleague Todd McShay has them taking South Carolina cornerback Stephon Gilmore. Other mock drafts have the Bears taking an offensive tackle (Stanford’s Jonathan Martin, Michigan’s Mike Adams), a wide receiver (Georgia Tech’s Stephen Hill, Baylor’s Kendall Wright), a defensive tackle (Memphis’ Dontari Poe, Mississippi State’s Fletcher Cox) and a linebacker (Boston College’s Luke Kuechly).
With the possible exception of linebacker, it wouldn’t be a surprise if the Bears addressed any of those positions in the first round, which underscores the biggest advantage they have in this year’s draft. After trading for Marshall, they can afford to take the best player available without ignoring an obvious need.
So with 10 days to go before the draft, here’s a look at the Bears’ biggest needs:
Defensive end
Israel Idonije is a solid all-around player, but unless Julius Peppers plays at a Jared Allen-level, the Bears need more than five sacks from their other end. With Corey Wootton injured last season, the Bears didn’t even have anybody to push Idonije for playing time.
Offensive line
The Bears seem to believe they will upgrade their offensive line with the return of injured right tackle Gabe Carimi and injured left guard Chris Williams (with the unspoken upgrade of Mike Tice coordinating the offense instead of Mike Martz). But until Carimi proves he can stay healthy and J’Marcus Webb proves he can play left tackle, it’s going to be a question mark.
Cornerback
Charles Tillman made the Pro Bowl last season, and Tim Jennings is a good tackler who fits Smith’s defense. But the Bears could use an infusion of youth and expertise here — someone to push or beat out Jennings and eventually replace Tillman.
Defensive tackle
The Bears were neither as good nor as deep as they thought they were at this position in 2011 and need help after cutting Anthony Adams and losing Amobi Okoye to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in free agency. Henry Melton had seven sacks but was inconsistent as an impact player. Matt Toeaina is a capable DT, and Stephen Paea, a second-round pick who developed slowly as a rookie, needs to make sudden improvement if the Bears are to upgrade here.
Wide receiver
Though Marshall should be an obvious upgrade, the possible loss of Johnny Knox could leave the Bears in need. Knox, who suffered a devastating back injury in December, likely will miss the offseason program and possibly part or all of the regular season.
Wild cards
With Emery in his first year, the Bears could go a lot of directions in the draft. It’ll be interesting to see if he likes his safeties as much as Smith does. As strong as the Bears are with Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs, they could use a young, impact linebacker. And they could always use special-teams help, especially after losing Corey Graham and Sam Hurd.
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Love the fact Emery is keeping everyone guessing including the competition. Why lay your cards on the table? Just enough left guessing to possibly keep a team from jumping ahead of the Bears and grabbing someone they know they need but aren't telling anyone they do. I like his style so far....out of the gate, he's playing it smarter than Angie.
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Agreed Sporty.
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It will be interesting to see how this draft shakes out and see who falls. I still think we go defense at #19. The key signal to me is they gave Izzie only a one year contract and they let two DTs go.
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Jon Martin's stock is really tanking. How crazy would it be if we could land him in the 2nd?
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Emery was supposedly hired because of his drafting ability
Yeah that is what I keep hearing, but does anyone know what exact years Emery drafted for the Chiefs?
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Here's something I cut-and-pasted from a blog's comments sections... I don't have time to independently confirm but this is purportedly a KC fan's take on the two drafts for which Emery was responsible in KC:
2010 yielded 6 starters:
- 1st - E. Berry - stud, starting SS
- 2nd - D. McCluster - semi-starter, change of pace RB (3rd down back, PR/KR) we desperately needed a PR/KR
- 2nd - Javier Arenas - our nickleback and best PR/KR, on the field all the time (even took snaps and scored a rushing TD on offense as the wildcat QB). see above about the desperate need for PR/KR
- 3rd - J. Asomoah - starting RG, now our best OL
- 3rd - T. Moeaki - starting TE, way better than any of the other scrubs we've had since we trade Tony G.
- 5th - Kendrick Lewis - Starting FS
- 5th - Cameron Sheffield - career derailed due to neck injury in pre-season of rookie year.
2011
- 1st - Jon Baldwin - will be our best WR soon, bigger, faster, better hands than Bowe
- 2nd - J. Hudson - current backup at LG and C, came in this year for Lilja at LG and played better. watch the Bears/KC game again, you all got pressure up the gut in the first quarter, they pulled Lilja and put in Hudson, the pressure up the middle stopped. he should be the starter next year at either LG or C (we are still looking for a Center)
- 3rd - Justin Houston - starting OLB, had 5.5 sacks the last 5 games of the year - some had him pegged as our pick in the 1st round, fell due to drug test.
- 3rd - Allen Bailey - DE in 3-4, actually played better than our two starters - some had him pegged as our pick in the 1st round.
- 4th - Jalil Brown - CB, has a chance to replace Carr if he leaves via FA.
- 5th - Ricky Stanzi - QB, should've been given a shot after Cassel was hurt instead of Palko/Orton.
- 5th - Gabe Miller - DE/OLB hybrid from Oregon, on the PS.
- 6th - J. Powe - NT, was slated to be an early round pick after the 2010 season, fell to the 6th - most of us have no clue why he didn't suit up all year, rumored to have been injured
- 7th - no name FB from Stanford...
Now granted, the Chiefs prior to 2010 were terrible from top to bottom so it wasn't going to take much to show improvement. In fact, the 2009 Chiefs went 4-12, resulting in them having 5th position in the 2010 draft which always helps when you're going after playmakers. But to have 6 guys from the 2010 draft starting by their 2nd year in the league is impressive any way you slice it.
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Nice quality AND quantity of picks.
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I remember Asamoah in particular cause he was a U of Illinois guy and I was hoping the Bears would draft him. Oh well.
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We can only hope Emery does as well drafting for us.
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Oh yeah. That would be sweet
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NFL draft preview: Wide receivers
Pompei's NFL draft previews by position
By Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune reporter
5:37 p.m. CDT, April 17, 2012
Seventh in a series exploring the April 26-28 NFL draft. Next: Cornerbacks.
This is a deep group of wide receivers. There are considerably more draftable players than at any other position. As a result, the order in which they are taken will depend as much on scheme fit as anything else. Many of the down-the-line prospects lack size and might not appeal to many teams.
The best
1. Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma State, 6-1, 207. He has size, speed and athleticism and shows excellent strength and body control, allowing him to play bigger than he is. Blackmon runs good routes and knows how to shake a defender. He is a fluid player who can make sharp cuts. His ball skills are excellent. He does not have elite breakaway speed, however. Many scouts rate him below A.J. Green and Julio Jones, the top receivers in the 2011 draft.
2. Michael Floyd, Notre Dame, 6-2, 220. This is a big, physical receiver with excellent body control and ball skills. He uses his size to compete for the ball. He is not a burner and his separation skills are average, but he has good enough play speed. Floyd is effective after the catch. He would be ideal in a West Coast offense. He has had multiple run-ins dealing with alcohol, but some teams see him as a good kid who made some immature decisions. He was a four-year producer at Notre Dame.
3. Kendall Wright, Baylor, 5-10, 196. He ran a 4.42 40-yard dash at his pro day after a poor combine workout had his stock on the decline. Regardless of his timed speed, Wright plays fast. He is an explosive receiver with impressive ball skills. He makes wow plays. Wright isn't the biggest receiver, but he is tough and makes plays all over the field. He could develop into the best slot receiver in the draft. Wright put up outstanding numbers for four years. He improved his route running in 2011 and could improve more. He is comparable to Santonio Holmes.
4. Stephen Hill, Georgia Tech, 6-4, 215. Hill is one of the biggest boom-or-bust prospects in the draft. He has the potential to be the best receiver and one of the best players at any position. He has size, blazing speed (he ran a 4.28 40 at the combine), leaping ability (39½-inch vertical) and a flair for the circus catch. However, he is very unrefined and has not played in a pro-style offense. There is not much evidence on tape of him running difficult routes and cutting and separating. He seems to be a little slow getting in and out of breaks. And his hands can be inconsistent. He was not a big producer in college as a result of the offense he played in. Hill came out of school early and has a lot to learn. Some scouts question how competitive he is, but he has been a very good run blocker.
5. Rueben Randle, LSU, 6-3, 210. His combination of size and speed is enticing. Randle runs routes nimbly for his size and catches the ball well. He does not have unusual burst; rather, he is a player who builds speed. He left school early and is a bit raw in terms of developing the finer points of the game. Randle could play with more urgency. He is a willing blocker. His best football could be ahead of him.
6. Chris Givens, Wake Forest, 5-11, 198. This is a speed receiver who can separate and run away from defenders after the catch. The former track star also accelerates quickly in routes. He isn't the biggest receiver, but he isn't small. Givens has very good hands. After coming out early, he has a lot to learn in terms of route running. He can play inside or outside. He has had some serious knee injuries, but they haven't affected his play.
7. Alshon Jeffery, South Carolina, 6-3, 216. This is a big player with the ability to adjust to the ball and present a big catching radius. Jeffery should be a fine red-zone weapon. He is a smooth runner but does not have great speed. Jeffery has been overweight at times. Some teams question his desire and maturity. He has been compared to Mike Williams, currently of the Seahawks.
8. Mohamed Sanu, Rutgers, 6-1, 211. Sanu is a strong athlete who relishes the physical part of the game, runs good routes and makes some impressive catches. He has been very productive. Lack of top speed separates him from the top receivers. Sanu is mostly perceived as a possession receiver. He has played almost exclusively from the slot. He was a high school quarterback who was used extensively in the Wildcat at Rutgers. He has top intangibles and should be a locker-room asset.
9. A.J. Jenkins, Illinois, 6-0, 190. He has come on strong in the postseason, starting with his performance in the East-West Shrine Game. Jenkins is a smooth, fast route runner who can separate. His hands are pretty good. He can make catches in tight coverage. He needs to improve his strength and play more physically. He also needs to play more consistently, as he has had some route busts. Jenkins can play in the slot or outside. His potential is very good.
10. Brian Quick, Appalachian State, 6-3, 220. Because he did not play big-time college football, Quick is a developmental prospect. But there is a lot to develop, given his size and ability. He is a strong receiver with good hands. Quick has done well in the postseason and has helped his stock. He doesn't have much experience running pro-style pass routes. His initial explosion off the ball is so-so.
11. Juron Criner, Arizona, 6-2, 224. Criner is a big, physical receiver with soft hands. He is not the fleetest of foot, but he can gain yards after the catch. Criner can break tackles and has good running instincts. He needs to improve his route running. He has had some medical issues that teams will have to feel comfortable with.
12. T.Y. Hilton, Florida International, 5-10, 183. A speed receiver who lacks ideal size, Hilton is dangerous in space. He sees the field well and finds creases. He can make sharp cuts. He is very explosive and is one of the best return men in the draft. He has been banged up a lot but is surprisingly tough for his size. He will need to refine his technique and improve his strength.
13. Nick Toon, Wisconsin, 6-2, 217. The son of former Jet Al Toon has size and enough speed but is not a dominant player. Toon is perceived as an underachiever and a No. 2 receiver in the NFL. He is a smooth route runner with a good feel for defenses. He catches well. Toon is a physical receiver. His quickness is ordinary. He was considered a better prospect when there was talk about him entering the 2011 draft. He has had a few injury issues.
14. Greg Childs, Arkansas, 6-3, 219. He is a big, gifted player whose 2011 performance was affected by a knee injury. Childs didn't separate and produce like he did in the past, but he has speed and leaping ability. He can make catches away from his body, so he has a big catching radius. He runs pretty good routes. Childs takes pride in his blocking. A team that selects him will be gambling he can return to pre-injury form.
15. Marvin Jones, California, 6-2, 199. Jones has very good body control and runs nice routes for a big man. He can get off the jam and separate from defenders easily. He is pretty polished and was very productive in college. He worked out well, but his play speed is only average. His hands are above average.
16. Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma, 5-10, 192. This smallish receiver is effective working from the slot. He gets in and out of breaks well and shows good suddenness. He doesn't drop much and competes hard. Broyles was unbelievably productive, setting a major-college record with 349 career catches. He lacks top-end speed and is considered a finesse receiver. He is coming off a torn ACL that could affect his stock.
17. Keshawn Martin, Michigan State, 5-11, 188. He brings value as a slot receiver/punt returner. Martin has excellent quickness, which helps him separate on inside routes. His speed is average. He catches the ball well. It could take him some time to develop on offense.
18. Marquis Maze, Alabama, 5-8, 186. He was a fine college player who will need a specific role in the NFL. Given his lack of height and running back's build, Maze will be best utilized in the slot. His speed is average, but he has good quickness and good hands.
19. Jarius Wright, Arkansas, 5-9, 182. Strictly a slot receiver, Wright is a shifty runner who is explosive and changes directions well. He has good hands and has been productive. He needs a lot of work on his routes. Wright has return ability.
20. Joe Adams, Arkansas, 5-11, 179. His primary value could be as a return man. He has an innate ability to make tacklers miss on punts. Adams is small but quick and tough. His speed is average. His ball skills need developing. He is probably a slot receiver only in the NFL. He helped himself at the Senior Bowl.
21. B.J. Cunningham, Michigan State, 6-1, 211. Cunningham is a gamer who can make plays. He has good size and strong hands, and he is a physical player. He lacks top-end speed and is not the quickest in and out of cuts. He has a knack for the game. He would be a good fit in a West Coast offense.
22. DeVier Posey, Ohio State, 6-1, 211. He has a nice combination of size and athleticism and catches the ball well. He has average speed and is not the most physical receiver, but he does have some ability to make plays downfield. Some compare him to former Buckeye Michael Jenkins. He was suspended for the first five games of last season for receiving improper benefits.
23. Devon Wylie, Fresno State, 5-9, 187. His quickness helps him get open on routes over the middle. Wylie excels working from the slot but does not have the size to win on the outside. He has had some durability issues. Wylie also can return punts.
24. Danny Coale, Virginia Tech, 6-0, 201. He is a very effective slot receiver who is a savvy route runner with dependable hands. He should be a solid special teams contributor. He is comparable to Austin Collie.
25. Jordan White, Western Michigan, 6-0, 208. This is a well-rounded receiver who catches everything. He is tough, smart and polished. His speed is average and he is not a top athlete. He is a poor man's version of Greg Jennings, the Packers star who also played at Western Michigan.
26. Rishard Matthews, Nevada, 6-0, 217. He was a very productive college player who might not be as effective in the NFL. Matthews ran a 4.44 40 at his pro day but plays more like the 4.54 he ran at the combine. He is a strong, physical receiver who plays bigger than he is. He catches the ball well.
27. Jeff Fuller, Texas A&M, 6-4, 223. He is big, athletic and physical and has a lot of potential. He can snatch the ball. His hands are inconsistent, and he drops too many easy ones. He played much better in 2010 than 2011. He does not always separate well.
28. Marvin McNutt, Iowa, 6-3, 216. A possession receiver with good size, McNutt has body control and makes catches in a crowd. He is physical and tough. He will not beat many defenders on deep routes, and he will not turn many short catches into long gains. His separation skills are ordinary. He was very productive in college, but some scouts believe he has limited potential in the NFL.
29. T.J. Graham, North Carolina State, 5-11, 188. His speed has a number of teams interested. He is not the most fluid runner, however. Graham catches well and has potential. He is a little raw and needs route work. He has kick-return ability.
30. Chris Owusu, Stanford, 6-0, 196. This is a gifted receiver who had an off year. He has a history of injuries, including three documented concussions, that will affect his stock. He has fine speed (a 4.36 40 at the combine) and exceptional kick-return ability.
31. Tommy Streeter, Miami, 6-5, 219. This is a big receiver who ran a 4.37 40 at the combine. He does not play that fast, however. Streeter does not have ideal body control and is not an efficient route runner. He makes catches in traffic, but his hands are suspect. He came out early and was not a very productive player. Streeter is a similar prospect to Stephen Hill but isn't as gifted.
32. Jeremy Ebert, Northwestern, 5-11, 200. This productive college receiver has what it takes to be a fine slot receiver in the NFL. Ebert is quick and has excellent body control. He can run routes precisely, does not drop many passes and is tough over the middle. He ran a 4.38 40 at his pro day to get the attention of scouts.
33. Eric Page, Toledo, 5-9, 186. Some teams consider him more of a return man than a receiver. Page's lack of size limits him as a receiver, but he has the vision and quickness to bring back punts and kicks. He was a productive college player. He is tough and has good but not great speed.
34. Travis Benjamin, Miami, 5-10, 172. He's a smaller receiver with very good speed and return ability. He ran a 4.36 40 at the combine and vertical jumped 38 inches. He was a four-year letterman and a productive college player.
35. Darius Hanks, Alabama, 5-11, 184. This is a quick receiver who has a good feel for running routes from the slot. He is a consistent player with good hands. He needs to improve his strength. He ran a 4.66 40 at the combine, and his lack of speed will hurt him in the draft.
36. Gerell Robinson, Arizona State, 6-3, 227. Robinson has an NFL body and knows how to use it on the field. He has average speed and is strictly a possession receiver. His hands can be inconsistent.
37. Dwight Jones, North Carolina, 6-3, 230. His size, production and athleticism make him worthy of consideration. Blocking is a plus. Jones is not the fastest receiver and does not always catch the ball well. His route running can be sloppy.
38. Derek Moye, Penn State, 6-4, 209. This is a tall receiver with long arms and soft hands. He comes out of his breaks well for a big receiver. He does not have breakaway speed and doesn't give you much after the catch.
39. Tyler Shoemaker, Boise State, 6-2, 216. His size/speed combination has NFL teams giving him a good look. A former walk-on, Shoemaker lacks elite skill but tries hard. He scored 16 touchdowns last season.
40. Kashif Moore, Connecticut, 5-9, 180. An undersized slot receiver, Moore can run. He was timed at 4.42 in the 40 at the combine.
41. Junior Hemingway, Michigan, 6-1, 225. He is a big, physical receiver who is not the fastest. Hemingway was a productive player for four years.
The rest
42. Kevin Hardy, Citadel
43. LaVon Brazill, Ohio
44. Patrick Edwards, Houston
45. Aldarius Johnson, Miami
46. Tim Benford, Tennessee Tech
47. D.J. Woods, Cincinnati
48. Josh Cooper, Oklahoma State
49. Julian Talley, Massachusetts
50. Jermaine Kearse, Washington
51. Dale Moss, South Dakota State
52. Brandon Carswell, USC
53. Jerrell Jackson, Missouri
54. LaRon Byrd, Miami
55. James Rodgers, Oregon State
56. Lance Lewis, East Carolina
57. Jarrett Boykin, Virginia Tech
58. Thomas Mayo, California (Pa.)
dpompei@tribune.com
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Lots of questions raised in that article. I dont see the Bears going for Hill. Jeffery is a questionmark too. I think a 2nd or 3rd round WR is a more likely draft pick for the Bears. Hopefully our GM has the smarts to weed out the busts.
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for some reason I expect if we go WR it will be someone like Randle, Quick, Sanu or Toon in rounds 2-3.
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Thats what I am guessing. And like I surmised earlier when I said looking at Hill, "he has bust written all over him"
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I will be extremely surprised if our 1st round pick goes to a WR.
There's going to be great value at that position in the 2nd with a number of big-bodied, sure-handed guys who might not have 4.4 speed but can definitely play at the next level. So that's where I expect we'll round out our WR corps for this season.
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I still like Hill despite the comments that "He seems to be a little slow getting in and out of breaks. And his hands can be inconsistent". But not at 19 - maybe after a trade down.
Anyway, I just don't see Emery taking a huge risk in the first round on his very first draft in Chicago. Looks like WR in the 2nd or possibly 3rd round after Emery builds the trenches early in the draft.
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Childs (Arkansas) would be a great guy to gam-ble on late...
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I won't be surprised if we end up with DL in 1, OL in 2 and WR in 3 then a LB in 4.
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What's the story on Childs anyway? He seems to have Round 1 measurables yet he's rated way down there on most lists.
Is it totally the injury thing that's hurting his stock? Or are there other things too.
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Streeter from Miami is a big fast WR that we should consider around rd 5. He is raw and has not great hands. However his speed/size ratio would make teams have to cover him with some help over top. Pair him with B. Marshall would be tough to cover.
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PFT is doing a team-by-team rundown of draft needs and today should be the day they come out with an article on the Bears.
Will be interesting to see how they size up our situation.
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PFT is doing a team-by-team rundown of draft needs and today should be the day they come out with an article on the Bears.
Will be interesting to see how they size up our situation.
It might be easier to list what we dont need. LOL At least we have some depth now that Angie is gone, but not much.
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I'm interested to see where PFT ranks our OL as a need.
Most NFL observers and almost all Bears fans say that unit is still very much a work in progress and could stand to have some better players at one or two positions at least. Lovie Smith argues otherwise.
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Tribune headline:
Bears add veteran guard; linebacker next?
Signing one would indicate they're after DE in draft.
Yep, no way now we take a WR or OT after signing that backup guard and possibly that backup OLB.
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And Izzy is only signed for this coming season.
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I'm really hoping Coples falls to us. He has all the tools to be an impact player, but has fallen in a few mocks due to questions about his motor. I think with the veteran leadership on the Bears D (including UNC alum Julius Peppers) he'd get the motivation and teaching to maximize his considerable potential. He should be able to push Izzy to the bench (or back inside to DT) from Day One.
I rate him above Mercilus but if he's gone and we get Mercilus I wouldn't complain about that either. Any DE other than one of those feels like a reach unless we traded down a few spots.
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It wouldnt surprise me if we traded down a few spots, but thats a danger too unless you know your player you've targeted will still be there
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Yep and under no circumstances do we want to trade down with the Patriots or we WILL get screwed.
The Browns at 22 might be an option, and they are so desperate for playmakers they may want to move up to get a guy they really like. A lot of mocks have them taking Stephen Hill or Kendall Wright at 22 but if they really like one of those two guys and feel we might grab him, maybe they work something out with Emery. Which would explain why Lovie paid special attention to those two WRs over the past few weeks.
OTOH, for us to drop down from 19 to 22 would probably only net us an extra 4th or 5th round pick so I'm not sure it's worth it.
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A 4th might get us another cover 2 CB
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Or a 4th plus our 4th might get us another 3rd round pick... or move us up the pecking order in the 2nd.
Hard to know how much wheeling and dealing Emery will be comfortable with his first time out with the Bears. I suspect he'll play it pretty much straight down the middle, though.
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PFT has Coples going 12th to Phill's Seachickens
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I have seen some Mock drafts that dont have Mercilus going in the first. Interesting.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/nflmockdraft.html
http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php
http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock-Drafts/2012-nfl-mock-draft.html
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Some scouts feel Mercilus is better suited to a 3-4 than a 4-3. And I think others are a little leery of the fact that he literally did almost nothing his entire college career before exploding last season (as compared to guys like Coples and Perry who were productive every year they played). So there are some reasons to downgrade him but I don't see any way he falls to the 2nd. With today's offenses being so pass-oriented, anyone who can notch double-digit sacks against premier college competition is gonna get taken pretty high. Even if they only did it for one year.
I am also starting to see Michael Brockers emerge as the Bears pick in some mocks. He's a guy that goes anywhere from Top 15 to the 2nd round depending on which mock you read. A very young kid who is physically in the Richard Seymour mold (6'6, 306) and has the athleticism to play either 3-Tech DT or DE but could be a year away from being a full-time contributor.
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If Brockers were there at #19 I think the Bears wouldnt pass on him. He is much better than the kid from Syrexcuse.
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If Brockers were there at #19 I think the Bears wouldnt pass on him. He is much better than the kid from Syrexcuse.
I agree. That Syracuse DE (Chandler Jones) only has 10 career sacks and never had more than 4.5 in any season in college.
More important, he is coming off a knee injury that cost him the last 5 games last season. Given what we just experienced with Carimi I would hope Emery is smart enough not to go down that road again.
A tall skinny kid with mediocre college production coming off a major injury is someone Angelo would pick. Corey Wootten, anyone? No thanks, can we please do better this year?
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What I fear is that Emery with help from Marinelli and Lovie that some skinny 3/4 DE can me made to play 4/3 DE such as the kid from USC. Thats a bust waiting to happen u nless we suddenly go to a 3/4 after Lovie is gone
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Oops...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/report-mike-adams-tested-positive-for-pot-at-scouting-combine/
I thought Adams was supposed to be reasonably smart? It could also explain his less than stellar performance at the combine.
I'm guessing he's off the Bears' draft board now.
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Charlie Casserly's mock has Mercilus, Brockers, and Coples all gone by our pick. He has OT Adams gone as well, going before Martin. But now with the word out that Adams tested positive for pot at the combine, maybe Martin is gone too.
Casserly has us taking Poe in his 2 round mock: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8284ad28/article/tworound-mock-draft-no-quarterbacks-taken-in-second-round?module=HP11_hot_topics
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I think Casserly's mock is flat-out wack.
Poe is just about everything I envision Emery NOT wanting in a D-Lineman. Gigantic, one-dimensional and a chronic underperformer against sub-par competition.
And then in the 2nd he has us taking Fleener. W-T-F?
What's interesting is that almost every single mock that's come out this week is a carbon copy of each other down through the 12th pick:
1 - Luck (Colts)
2 - RGIII (Skins)
3 - Kalil (Vikes)
4 - Richardson (Browns)
5 - Claiborne (Bucs)
6 - Blackmon (Rams)
7 - Ingram or Coples (Jags)
8 - Taneyhill (Fins)
9 - Cox (Panthers)
10 - Reiff (Bills)
11 - Kuechly (Chiefs)
12 - Coples or Ingram (Seahawks)
At 13, with the Cardinals is where things start to get interesting though the consensus seems to be favoring an O-Lineman at that pick.
Of course one trade in the Top 12 could blow everything up, as could the Vikings inexplicably passing on Kalil for Claiborne or Blackmon. And personally, I don't think Kuechly will go as high as 11 but the rest of that lineup looks pretty plausible.
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draftek and draftcountdown both have the Bears taking the CB Gilmore...another option to improve a bottom 10 pass defense.
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Asante Samuel is being shopped by the Eagles...
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I read the Browns worked out Kalil, with speculation the Vikes were going to grab Blackmon. Could be a major shake up at the begining, sort of.
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I would seriously question Emery if Gilmore was our pick.
Seriously, CB is at best our 4th need (after DE, WR and OL), not to mention the whole idea of the Cover 2 is to allow you to get by with less than top-tier CBs. You can get good Cover-2 CBs in the 3rd and below.
And while Gilmore is a decent player no way is he Top 20 material. Rather than trying to defend the WR after the pass is thrown, how about investing in guys that will keep the ball from getting to the WR in the first place? It's not like upgrading our #2 CB is gonna keep teams from double-teaming and holding Peppers. Only another stud on the DL will do that, at which point coverage will take care of itself.
Gilmore (or any other CB available to us there) fails the value/need test all around.
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If the Vikings pass on Kalil for Blackmon they deserve to lose every game this year.
Blackmon is the most overrated player in the Top 10, IMO.
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I think we're all familiar with a lot of the top guys in the draft. What about sleepers?
In the Dallas paper the other day they had an article on an SMU DE that lost weight and says he wants to play TE:
The New England Patriots changed the way the NFL uses tight ends in 2011. The New Orleans Saints changed the way the NFL drafts them in 2010.
So the Patriots are forcing their competitors to look for tight ends — and the Saints are forcing them to look for a different type of tight end.
Enter Taylor Thompson of SMU.
Thompson built himself into a draftable NFL prospect as a defensive end for the Mustangs. A three-year starter, Thompson was a two-time All-Conference USA selection with 11 1/2 sacks over his final two seasons. He also finished fourth in the nation last year with six forced fumbles.
Pass rushers are always a premium commodity in the NFL. But Thompson has told the pros he wants to play tight end — and that decision may improve his draft stock.
“I know some teams liked him as a defensive end,” SMU coach June Jones said, “but a lot of teams took him off the [draft] board when he told them he wanted to play tight end. After his workout, though, they were putting his name right back up there.”
Thompson was not invited to the NFL scouting combine so his campus workout meant everything to him. And what a workout it was. He measured almost 6-6, 259 pounds, ran a 4.56 in the 40-yard dash and launched a vertical jump of 37 inches.
His measurables are comparable to those of Jimmy Graham, whom the Saints drafted in the third round in 2010. Graham went 6-6, 260 pounds and ran a 4.56 and with a 38 1/2 vertical jump.
Inside of two seasons, Graham became the best tight end in the NFL with 99 catches for 1,310 yards and 11 touchdowns in 2011. And Graham didn’t have much more experience at tight end than Thompson.
Graham played basketball at Miami for three years then quit to play football as a senior. He caught only 17 passes in his one season for the Hurricanes for 215 yards and five touchdowns. But it was his size, speed, athleticism and promise that got him drafted.
That’s why NFL teams are doubling back on Thompson this spring — that same package of size and athleticism. He already has an impressive 10 visits lined up with NFL teams, and tight end coaches have paraded to the SMU campus this month to work him out.
His skill set is attractive because of what the Patriots did with their two tight end formation last season, flanking Rob Gronkowski or Aaron Hernandez and sometimes both to create defensive headaches on the way to a 13-3 season.
Gronkowski goes 6-6, 265 pounds and Hernandez 6-1, 245. They can outrun linebackers and safeties and overpower cornerbacks. So they became go-to guys for quarterback Tom Brady with Gronkowski catching 90 passes and an NFL-leading 17 touchdowns and Hernandez 79 passes and nine touchdowns.
The same holds true for Graham. How do you cover him? And the same could hold true for Thompson. That’s what he and Jones are banking.
Thompson was an all-state tight end in high school at Prosper. He was offered scholarships by SMU to play defensive end and Vanderbilt to play tight end. He chose to play close to home, thus putting his tight end skills on the shelf — until November of last fall.
Jones pulled Thompson aside with four games left in his senior season and told him he might want to consider working out for NFL teams as a tight end in addition to defensive end to increase his options.
“So those last few weeks he started catching a lot of balls, running more and getting himself ready for the workout days,” Jones said. “I noticed he was losing weight. In the bowl game he was down from 285 to 260. After the bowl he told me he was going to go as a tight end.
“He can run, catch and he’s a smart guy. His numbers are unbelievable. He’s kind of freaky, athletically. If he hadn’t told everybody he was going to play tight end, he’d might been a second- or third-round pick at defensive end.”
Thompson stayed after practice that final month of the regular season, spending 30-40 minutes catching footballs from the Jugs machine and passes from quarterbacks. So secure hands accompanied him to his workout.
It will be intriguing to see how high Thompson can climb on draft boards in a very short period of time. He could be SMU’s highest drafted player of the June Jones era at a position he didn’t even play.
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Yeah I saw that article too.
There was a guy a year or two ago, out of U of Cincinnati that did the same thing. Or maybe he was going the other way (switching from TE to DE).
I also saw a story where a power forward from a small college basketball team was trying to get some NFL scouts to check him out as a TE. His measurables were in the ballpark for an NFL TE but he had very little experience catching footballs in game conditions and he basically couldn't block a lick so they were figuring his odds were pretty long.
And even more interesting, an NFL team (I think it was the Jets) recently signed a rugby player from England to play TE.
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Asante Samuel is being shopped by the Eagles...
The Eagles are a team that annoys me so I find this amusing.
Last year at this time everyone figured their D-Backfield would be impenetrable with DRC, Asomugha and Samuel. Talk about the whole being less than the sum of its parts...
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If a CB is the best player on the board I won't be upset if we take one.
We seem to get beat a lot by good QB's who can get the ball out quickly.
If we have a CB that can shut a guy down and slow down those short passes then our rush might get there.
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Honestly, given the defensive scheme we play I think you could draft Gilmore in the 1st or Heyward from Vanderbilt in the 4th, put either of them back there opposite Tillman and they would each have about the same impact.
So why spend a 1st round pick on a need a 4th rounder could fill? Games are won and lost in the trenches so I would really like to see at least two of our top 3 draft picks spent on upgrading the lines.
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Would Emery entertain moving up to #7? (I dont think so)
Jaguars high on Stephen Hill
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 19, 2012, 3:53 PM EDT
AP
Stephen Hill, the Georgia Tech wide receiver who caught just 28 passes last season in a run-first option offense, but averaged an eye-popping 29.3 yards a catch and put on a show at the Scouting Combine, is one of the most intriguing prospects in this year’s NFL draft. One of the intrigued teams resides in Jacksonville.
Tania Ganguli of the Florida Times-Union reports, citing unnamed sources, that Hill is a player to keep an eye on in projecting the Jaguars’ picks.
The problem, however, is that the Jaguars may not be in a position to draft Hill. Their first-round pick, No. 7, is too high for Hill, and he’ll probably be off the board before their second-round pick, No. 38.
That’s where the Jaguars’ talk of trading down comes into play. Jacksonville General Manager Gene Smith has said repeatedly that the Jaguars are open to calls from anyone who wants to move up to No. 7. If they do trade down, Hill may be the player they’re targeting.
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It would be outrageously expensive to move up from 19 to 7. And who would we take when we got there?
There are definite needs on this Bears team but there's not one guy in this entire draft we need that badly. It's not like we're one player away from the Superbowl. We have a handful of critical positions that need to upgraded with better Day One starters, and we need to get some future starters in the pipeline behind Urlacher, Briggs, Tillman and Garza. That's what this draft needs to be about, not finding that one super-stud who will put us over the top.
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File under "D" for "Duh"
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/vikings-choosing-between-blackmon-claiborne-and-kalil-with-third-pick/
For the Vikings sake, I hope it's Kalil.
For the Bears sake, I hope it's Blackmon. I don't think he'll be a flat-out bust but I think he's pretty seriously overrated and that 2-3 years from now he won't even be considered the best WR to come out of this class. A lot of people on the Blackmon bandwagon seem to be overlooking how bad the pass defenses are in the Big XII and I have reservations about Kendall Wright for the same reason.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/mayhew-says-lions-wont-shy-away-from-players-who-have-used-marijuana/
So, I guess the Lions are going Janoris Jenkins in the 1st and Mike Adams in the 2nd, then? ;D
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last night on NFL channel casserly was not so high on Kahlil.
He said he's a good run blocker but needs a lot of work on the pass.
I'm getting the impression aside from Luck, Griffin, Trent Richardson and Claiborn no one stands out much (besides Decastro who as a guard isn't of high value).
It looks like everyone else is in a mix of late first to second round actual talent.
I'm thinking Emery is targeting 3-5 guys at 19. If a couple are still on the board he will try to trade down a few spots and still get one of his choices.
Are there any higher bust postions than wide receiver and defensive line?
i.e. the Chiefs took Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey and neither has much impact.
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Wow, you are spot on. Dorsey was supposed to be a monster at the position.
That is why the draft is a crapshoot. You could draft Decastro with all of his talent and motor, and he could start the Marc Columbo redo... Or grab Fletcher Cox and watch him melt into Dorsey, all the while blaming Emery and Marinelli for his demise.
Good article on the Michigan center today named Molk. I like the edge he is carrying because of his size, but what if he is just a little napolean guy and not the next Olin Kreutz?
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I am seeing a lot of players with warts...players good at this and not so good at that. A crapshoot it sure is.
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And the $$ can change everything...
Once these kids get paid their whole world changes
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Yeah, they learn all about "family", as in how much is mine? Tough to run from the relatives, but needs to be done sometimes.
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Where is that Molk kid projected to go? I like the attitude he brings.
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It would be outrageously expensive to move up from 19 to 7. And who would we take when we got there?
IF Phil were to make a trade up to #7 he would be targeting Richardson out of Alabama. They would of course throw in Forte along with the #19. That would be Forte's replacement of that kind of deal was made. Just my opinion of course.
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Can't trade Forte till he signs his tender
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Why bother trading up for a RB when the ones we have are good enough. If we are trading up, lets do it to get a superior replacement to what we have, like JaMarcus Webb....
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Not the mock Yapper wanted to see:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/04/20/mock.draft/index.html#ixzz1sbFXRvaL
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Read a good article the other day about how the RB position is quickly becoming the irrelevant position on a offense. More teams are going to the short passes to move the sticks, the TE's are more integrated. It's just a passing league and RB's are the odd men out. Still need em but not as necessary as in years past to pay for a high end one.
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Whic player to draft? Chances are that if you have four areas of concern there will be at least one draftee who stands out at one of those postions (or two). You choose that one. In the rare cas where you don't like anyone particularly you try to move down.
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Ted Thompson repeatedly referred to “the process” during his traditional predraft press conference on Thursday, an exercise in draft stealth and intrigue of national security worthiness. "The process" is a system the creation of which Thompson credits to his mentor, former Packers general manager Ron Wolf.
“The process is exactly the same,” Thompson said proudly, as he addressed a question involving attrition within in his scouting staff, which prominently lost Reggie McKenzie to the head personnel job in Oakland late last season. “We have other people that step in and pick up the slack.”
They are people who know and believe in “the process.” They are either direct or indirect disciples of Wolf, which means they are also disciples of Thompson. The torch is passed and its flames burn in other cities in the league, as they burned in Seattle when Thompson was the personnel boss there.
So what is this process about which the Packers GM speaks so passionately, so protectively that he refuses to divulge the inner workings of it?
“I don’t know how to say this without violating one of my rules,” Thompson said with a smile, as he fought back the urge to divulge information while responding to one reporter’s question. The Packers media understands. They know the drill. They politely smile.
They also know “the process.” They know it’s about picking the best player left in the draft when it’s the Packers’ turn to pick, even if that guy plays a position the media and the fans have not identified to be a position of need.
Pass rusher is the position of need this year. It has been identified by one and all as that need that must be addressed, lest the same fate befall Dom Capers’ unit, again.
Hey, it really is the Packers’ greatest need. For the defense to improve on last year’s No. 32 ranking, it has to find a pass rusher on the side opposite Clay Matthews, to help loosen offenses’ grip on Matthews. Simply put, the Packers need more sacks.
Yeah, that’s the need and it’s widely agreed that this draft class, which overall doesn’t appear to be especially strong, does have numbers in the way of pass rushers to fit a 3-4 defense. You want tweeners? This draft has them, which means the expectation is that Thompson will pick one early, maybe even often.
That’s not how “the process” works.
“We won’t do it intentionally. We don’t think you draft that way,” Thompson said, referring to drafting for need. “You draft for the long-term investment of your team.”
If you don’t like reading those words, and if they make you a little weary of the “the process,” then bear in mind that “the process” has served the Packers well for a lot of years. It brought the Packers Aaron Rodgers when the team already had a good quarterback, a guy who kept Rodgers on the bench until his third season. Wanna throw him back?
“The process” is a system for drafting players that hasn’t changed, even though the game has undergone dramatic change. The same system that worked in the 1990’s for Wolf is working for Thompson going on 20 years later.
“I’ve been in a dark room watching tape for 10 days,” Thompson said in opening his press conference.
That’s part of “the process.” Sit in a dark room and watch tape, and find players that offer the greatest promise to give the Packers a maximum return on their long-term investment, because if you take care of the future, the future will take care of the present.
“You can’t predict it,” Thompson said of how the draft will fall. “You can worry yourself sick about what’s going to happen. Evaluate the players individually. Don’t get too worked up in terms of position. That’s easier said than done.”
Yeah, it’s tempting even to him. Everybody wants to fix what’s broke, right?
That’s when Thompson relies on “the process.”
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I cant believe that King mock with the Bears taking that WR with Brockers and Dre Kirkpatrick on the board. Its a mistake that some prognosticators assume the Bears need another WR desperately. And they would also pass on Randle from LSU.
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I find it refreshing the Draft prognosticators have no cluw what the Bears are going to do. It seemed in the past they always knew what position we were going to take.
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We'll have to name Emery "the sleuth" He is almos Krause-like he is so secretive
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Really? Passing on Rieff, Mercilus, and Floydd to take Perry? I might have a problem with this:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/sc-spt-0422-nfl-mock-draft--20120421,0,4386107.story
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You aren't the only one - yapper's going to blow his top.
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Marinelli might have gone to LA to work out Perry, but Emery went to SB to work out Floyd. Which holds more weight? And who is that Shmo who wrote that draft mock anyways?
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I don't see how we could pass on Floyd if he is there. Our WR core is one injury away from being below average. We need another WR with size. Marshall, Floyd, Bennett would be a very nice WR. I still have hope that Sanzenbacher becomes Wes Welker like player for us. Add in Hester, Weems and Knox and the WR group would look down right special.
No Floyd and an injured B. Marshall...and the group looks weak.
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Yea I would think trading down would require a absence of players we really could use, like Floyd. I can see Emery being tempted to trade down and acquire more help this draft, though, simply because of the depleted nature of the team. And yea, it would be nice if Sanz would step up the next season or two and really become that Welker type player he looks to be. Thing is though with our incredible stable of RB's we aren't in as much of a predicament when it comes to those short underneath route runners as alot of teams are.
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The PFT mock has an upset with the Bears take Kuechly because he is still available.
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Dont buy that either. I see these mocks all over the map. Because Emery has successfully camoflaged our needs to the point where everybody is guessing as to who we are going to draft we have confused other GMs.
Like somebody above surmized that Emery has a group of 3-5 players he is targeting to be there at #19 and he will take the best one. From my personal viewpoint it seems DLine is the weakest and in need of an upgrade. Of all our FA additions, there have been no DLine players signed. Emery let Okoye and Adams walk and gave Izzy only a one year deal. That tells me what I need to know
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And Webb graded poorly at LT, the RT is coming off a serious knee injury, the swing tackle was not re-signed, and no other OT was signed in the off season.
What does that tell you?
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If Angie were still around, we'd be discussing what RB he'd try to obtain or whether he was going Kicker in the first round,....lol...
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The problem with the OT-at-19 scenario is that the best available OT at that spot may be swing backup caliber at best. Now granted you can say it shouldn't take much to knock Webb out of the starting LT spot, but there is far from consensus among scouts that Jonathan Martin has what it takes to play LT in the NFL even after a year or two of development, much less from Day One. And I highly doubt Mike Adams is on the Bears Round 1 draft board (if he's on the board at all), after a very blah combine and the revelations of this last week.
So you've got a situation where the best OT available at 19 may not be a Day One starter and as far as I'm concerned, that's bad value and we'd need to look at another position.
The only OT who I would consider true value at 19 would be Reiff and it would be the shocker of Day 1 if he fell that far.
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And Webb graded poorly at LT, the RT is coming off a serious knee injury, the swing tackle was not re-signed, and no other OT was signed in the off season.
What does that tell you?
The Bears say they are happy with the Oline that they have, that they are only looking for backups/depth. The quality past Kalil isnt good enough to invest a #1 for an LOT. I expect the Bears will go after that kid from Oklahoma later in the draft and groom him to replace OMG. I cant say as I agree with that just like I dont like the talk of moving our LG back to LT.
What does that tell you?
It tells me that either the Bears are smarter than we think or they are being very foolish.
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Not a strong year for OTs, but The Packers found LT Clifton in round 2 and RT Tauscher in round 7 in the same year and they both started effectively as rookies.
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NFL draft preview: Defensive ends
By Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune reporter
4:05 p.m. CDT, April 21, 2012
Many teams in need of defensive ends will find what they are looking for on draft weekend. The 2012 crop of pass rushers is pretty strong, in terms of both top-end talent and depth. And it will need to be as a majority of teams is believed to be in the market for an upgraded pass rush.
The best
1. Whitney Mercilus, Illinois, 6-3, 261. He was highly productive, leading the country with 16 sacks and nine forced fumbles. But he left school early, had only one year of solid production and is raw. He needs to develop pass-rush moves. It could take him some time to make an impact, but he has a lot of upside. Mercilus had outstanding workouts, and teams believe he can play outside linebacker in a 3-4 as well as end in a 4-3. He has all the tools the NFL looks for in a pass rusher — speed, explosion, flexibility and length. Plus, he plays hard. He is consistently solid against the run and plays with good pad level. Mercilus is lighter than some teams like and struggles to keep weight on.
2. Courtney Upshaw, Alabama, 6-1, 272. He does not have ideal length or elite athleticism, but he is a fine player. Upshaw is a power rusher who uses leverage, plays hard and gets to the quarterback. He sets the edge as well as anyone in the class. Upshaw is one of the most polished end prospects in the draft. His hand use is excellent. He might struggle as an outside linebacker in a three-man front.
3. Quinton Coples, North Carolina, 6-6, 284. He is the top-ranked end by many analysts and one of the most gifted players at any position. However, he could fall on draft day because teams question his love of the game. Some believe he was trying not to get hurt in 2011. Coples is highly inconsistent. When he wants to, he can dominate, but he doesn't want to very often. He has the kind of size, athleticism and speed Julius Peppers has, though he isn't as powerful. Some think he can play tackle in a three-man front.
4. Melvin Ingram, South Carolina, 6-1, 264. He is a draft enigma because no one is sure what position he fits best. Some think he might be a man without a position. Ingram is a possible end in a 4-3, outside linebacker in a 3-4, tackle in a 4-3 or inside linebacker in a 3-4. He has short arms (31½ inches) and a short frame to be an edge rusher. He was a very productive college player, but he moved all over. Ingram is highly athletic and has quick feet. His change of direction is outstanding. He seems to be a natural pass rusher. Weight, conditioning and effort level have been issues.
5. Shea McClellin, Boise State, 6-3, 260. He is viewed as either an outside linebacker in a 3-4 or an end in a 4-3. He can rush, drop, cover and play the run. He played all over the field in college and made a lot of plays on instinct and hustle. He is considered NFL-ready. McClellin runs well and is very athletic. Setting the edge could be a weakness.
6. Nick Perry, USC, 6-3, 271. He is the strongest of all the ends in terms of playing the run and an ideal candidate to play left end. He has a big frame and big lower body. He is effective stunting and uses his hands well. As a pass rusher, he is a little robotic. He does not always play with consistent effort, and some consider him an underachiever. His workouts have been impressive. Perry, who turned pro with eligibility remaining, has outstanding potential.
7. Chandler Jones, Syracuse, 6-5, 266. This is a tall base end prospect with quick feet. He can create havoc but does not always finish plays. He plays with strength and is solid against the run but is not a dynamic speed rusher. Jones has a good motor. Injuries have limited him. He's the brother of UFC fighter Jon "Bones" Jones and Ravens defensive tackle Arthur Jones.
8. Bruce Irvin, West Virginia, 6-3, 245. This is a very explosive pass rusher and an outstanding athlete. He has an unbelievable takeoff. Irvin's speed rush is exceptional, but it's the only thing he really does well. He does have the ability to be stout. Some scouts question his ability to drop and cover in a complex defense, but he is built more like a 3-4 outside linebacker than he is an end. He has had a tough upbringing and has made questionable off-field decisions.
9. Andre Branch, Clemson, 6-4, 259. He came on in 2011 to impress teams with his athleticism, quick feet and speed. He can bend, turn and burst. Branch has some pass-rushing ability with a strong punch. He sometimes gets stalled on contact and gets bulled against the run at times.
10. Vinny Curry, Marshall, 6-3, 266. Curry does not have the flash to be a speed rusher, but he can be an effective base end. He plays with good power and has enough athleticism. He is decent against the run. His effort level is high. His combine workout was disappointing. Some teams see him as a 3-4 outside linebacker.
11. Tyrone Crawford, Boise State, 6-4, 275. He has a nice combination of size, strength and quickness. Crawford plays hard and smart. He is fundamentally sound. He knows how to play against double teams. He is not a great pass rusher, but he is solid. He worked out well at the combine to help his stock.
12. Olivier Vernon, Miami, 6-2, 261. He played in only six games last season because of a suspension, then left school with a year of eligibility remaining. He was rated higher before the season than after. He does have traits teams are looking for, including speed and explosiveness. He plays hard and shows strong hands. He has been more effective versus the run than the pass. Vernon is shorter than ideal. He isn't very experienced but could develop into a very good player. His workouts have been excellent.
13. Jake Bequette, Arkansas, 6-5, 274. This persistent pass rusher uses strength and leverage to get the job done. He is a little mechanical in his rush. His speed off the edge is ordinary. He has been a four-year starter with production, and a solid 2011 season has boosted his stock. He is considered a leader who gets the most out of his abilities.
14. Frank Alexander, Oklahoma, 6-4, 270. He came on strong late in his career and had a pretty good combine. Alexander has the size and quickness to be a decent NFL end. He uses his hands well but is not overly physical. Alexander gives good effort. He has not been as productive as he could have been. Some see him as a 3-4 outside linebacker. He also has lined up at tackle.
15. Jared Crick, Nebraska, 6-4, 279. He was considered one of the best ends in the draft before last season, but injuries held him back and his stock has gone down. Crick could be a 3-4 end or a 4-3 tackle. He is more effective playing over a guard than out wide. He has shown he can penetrate a gap. He is not a dynamic pass rusher, but he is a relentless one.
16. Cam Johnson, Virginia, 6-3, 268. He has pass-rushing ability but doesn't always show it. Johnson is explosive and has great acceleration. Scouts question his effort. A former basketball player, wide receiver and defensive back, he is very athletic. He does not play with much power. Johnson played well in the Senior Bowl.
17. Jack Crawford, Penn State, 6-5, 274. He emigrated from London and was initially a basketball player. Crawford has an NFL body, plays hard, runs well and is strong. He is raw in his technique, and his instincts are off. He is a little stiff athletically.
18. Kyle Wilber, Wake Forest, 6-4, 249. This is a speed rusher with good athletic ability. He has some slipperiness and has potential to develop as a pass rusher. He is very lean, and his ability to anchor is a problem. He could be best as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 or a situational rusher.
19. Tim Fugger, Vanderbilt, 6-3, 248. This is a high-motor player with good instincts and decent speed. He knows how to use leverage to his advantage. He uses solid technique. Fugger has a hip injury that could affect his stock.
20. Malik Jackson, Tennessee, 6-5, 284. Jackson has some athleticism and length. A transfer from USC, he also could play tackle. He had a decent workout and helped his stock. He could develop in the right situation.
21. Jonathan Massaquoi, Troy, 6-2, 264. He is athletic and tough but raw. He has decent strength and plays with leverage. He also is a consideration at outside linebacker for 3-4 teams. His instincts are questionable.
22. Scott Solomon, Rice, 6-3, 262. Solomon is an average athlete who plays hard and gets the most out of his ability. He knows how to get under a blocker's pads. He is smart and instinctive. He also could play tackle.
23. Broderick Binns, Iowa, 6-1, 261. He is undersized and limited athletically, but he is disruptive. Binns uses his long arms well and plays with a feel for the game. He is quicker than he is fast.
24. Trevor Guyton, California, 6-2, 285. This is a try-hard lineman with some power. He plays with good pad level. He also could play tackle in a four-man front.
25. Brandon Lindsey, Pittsburgh, 6-1, 254. He has some pass-rushing talent but is inconsistent. He needs to improve his run defense and play more physically. He can play outside linebacker in a three-man front.
26. Jacquies Smith, Missouri, 6-2, 253. He is a good athlete who can rush and drop. His best position could be stand-up linebacker in a 4-3. Smith shows some power. His production was spotty.
The rest
27. Jamie Blatnick, Oklahoma State
28. Kourtnei Brown, Clemson
29. Louis Nzegwu, Wisconsin
30. Donte Paige-Moss, North Carolina
31. Kentrell Lockett, Mississippi
32. Vince Browne, Northwestern
33. Ryan Van Bergen, Michigan
34. Derrick Shelby, Utah
35. Jamaar Jarrett, Arizona State
The Bears
The Bears have one of the league's premier ends in Julius Peppers and a fine complement in Israel Idonije. But both are older than 30, and neither is a speed rusher. What's more, the depth is highly questionable. Given the importance of pass rushing to the Bears' philosophy, this is an area of significant need.
dpompei@tribune.com
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I just am not impressed with this group of DEs. It seems they all have some warts. Many seem to be 3/4 LBs
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KEEP CUTLER UPRIGHT ...
Lets look at how the shiiit could roll ...
Reiff is looking to be ours ...
HOWEVER ...
GRONTKOWSKI ... no hes's not on our team,
there is on the other hand this other swingin dick out there at T.E.
FLEENER ... most of the draft rags have him taken by the NYG's,
with the last pick of round one. So thats like 32nd.
Does anybody have any info on this dude other then what has been rundown at ESPN?
He was Andrew Lucks #1 goto at Stanford ... his hand leaping can top 11 feet.
It's worth a look when drafting OL in the first ...
when you can get a son of a biitch ... that both blocks and catches.
Just a thought.
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That could be an interesting player
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No one has predicted Fleener, here or on the mocks. That would send the board a chatter I believe...
I want us to take the best player. Decastro, Kuechely, Fleener... those 3 are clearly the best at their positions in the draft, and if we have the chance to get the blue chip at the position, we should take him over the 3rd best tackle or the second best DE, etc...
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7797075/2012-nfl-draft-linebacker-luke-kuechly-tackles-every-challenge
Kuechly has the feel of HOF one day to me if he stays healthy. I know WR and OT are positions of need. However, if this kid were to fall to us, I would hope we would pull the trigger. The idea of him getting to play with Urlacher and Briggs is just wonderful. I mean with Da Bears history at LB can't you just see this kid coming in and being special.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7797075/2012-nfl-draft-linebacker-luke-kuechly-tackles-every-challenge
Kuechly has the feel of HOF one day to me if he stays healthy. I know WR and OT are positions of need. However, if this kid were to fall to us, I would hope we would pull the trigger. The idea of him getting to play with Urlacher and Briggs is just wonderful. I mean with Da Bears history at LB can't you just see this kid coming in and being special.
Agreed, if he is there I would take him. But I just dont see him falling to us.
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Kuechly is strictly an MLB. He wouldn't even see the field as a rookie unless Urlacher got hurt. Not a wise use of the pick IMO but he will be drafted high enough that the point is moot.
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I think you play Kuechly in Nick Roachs spot, and next year when Urlacher retires he moves over. But it isnt like Roach is the weak link on the D. But if you get the chance to grab a stud, you have to think about grabbing him.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/22/talk-heats-up-that-matt-kalil-could-slide/#comments
If Kalil slides that could mean Rieff could possibly fall to us.
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Neither Kalil nor Reiff will fall past 13. Too many teams needing starting quality OTs for that to happen. Book it.
Re Kuechly maybe he could start on the outside but still, with today's offenses our D would be much better served to add a 2nd Pro Bowl DL vs a 3rd Pro Bowl LB.
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Yapper,
Who is that 2nd pro bowler on the D Line that will be available??
Personally I don't believe there is a sure fire D line pro bowler that will be available. For that matter same could be said for OT.
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Our LBs are fine, as seen by the top five ranking in run D. Where we suck ass is pass D and that's solved by upgrading DL and or DB, not LB.
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Well we should've signed Mario Williams while we had the chance.
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still waiting for that sure fired pro bowler name
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still waiting for that sure fired pro bowler name
Hiber,
Good point.
It looks like Floyd is gone.
At the same time ... as players move up ... other players move down. :P
So Rieff and DeCastro could be in play ...
Mercilus comes into contention.
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Nothing says Kuechly will be a Pro Bowler either.
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Yapper,
Well I guess since I started this discussion with a post that stated I felt he could end up a HOF type player, I insinuated he would be pro bowl caliber. I don't mind that you disagree, but since you stated it would be better to draft a pro bowl defensive linemen, you kind of insinuated that one would be available...I just wanted to know who you thought that player was??
Something tells me you don't really have anyone in mind, so you are just picking position for need, which sometimes works out, but most of the time does not in my opinion. If somebody who seems to have great potential to develop into special player I would take him no matter position. I think the teams that draft 15-30 that instill that philosophy into there draft plans always come out ahead.
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Hiber,
IMO, Coples and Mercilus both have Pro Bowl potential. At least one of those should be available at 19. Brockers has the physical tools to be a Pro Bowler but he's so young and raw you just don't know how far he'll wind up going.
Which isn't to say any of those guys are locks to be a Pro Bowler their rookie year, but I wouldn't say that about Kuechly either.
You're right, I am basing my opinion on need and the fact is that LB is undeniably our strongest unit on the D and probably the best unit on the entire team. On top of which, LB is the position that least impacts the quality of a defense in today's NFL. Look at the Giants... very average LBs but a top-3 DL and well above average D-Backfield. That's the blueprint for success against today's offenses. Adding a top-flight rookie DL would improve our D immediately and significantly. Adding a guy like Kuechly, I'm really not so sure.
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Here's a summary on Coples from a Walter Football mock draft just out today, that has us taking him at 19.
The Bears wanted to sign Mario Williams in free agency, but missed out on him. Chicago could target a defensive end or cornerback in the first round to upgrade its defense. A pass rusher opposite Julius Peppers and some playmaking youth is needed for the team's defense. The veteran Peppers could be a mentor to a fellow Tar Heel.
Coples (6-6, 284) is the prototypical defensive end for a 4-3 defense due to his combination of size, speed and athleticism. He also played defensive end in a 3-4 set at times this season. Coples showed off his elite skill set with a strong week at the Senior Bowl. He also performed well at the Combine with a 4.72 40-yard dash and a 10-yard split of 1.63.
Coples was double-teamed a lot in 2011, yet still managed to get pressure on the quarterback. He showed the ability to defend the run well, especially versus Georgia Tech. Against Clemson, Coples had a sack-fumble plus another sack that was negated by a penalty. On that play, he bull rushed through a guard.
Coples also is a dangerous rusher when lining up on the inside. As a senior, he totaled 55 tackles with 15 tackles for a loss, 7.5 sacks, three forced fumbles and a plethora of quarterback hurries. Coples graded his performance this year as a C, and with his skill set he could have done more. That is why some believe he shouldn't go in the top 10.
At the Senior Bowl, Coples was dominant in the one-on-one pass-rushing drills and showed that he can make offenses pay when they single block him. Coples took complete advantage of Robert Quinn being suspended in 2010 with a breakout season. After producing five sacks as a sophomore in 2009, Coples doubled his sack total as a junior. He also contributed 15.5 tackles for a loss, 59 tackles and two forced fumbles.
Now in reviewing a bunch of mock drafts there seem to be two schools of thought. One group still has him going in the Top 12 (Jacksonville, Carolina or Seattle). The other group has him falling well beyond that. Should Coples fall, that would really hit a sweet spot of need and value for the Bears and confirm yet another thing that Emery has that Angelo lacked -- which is luck. I boldfaced the portions that make me think he's an exceptionally good fit for the Bears in particular. I can totally see Marinelli foaming at the mouth to get ahold of this guy and with Peppers as a mentor and Urlacher kicking him in the ass I think the concerns about his motivation are relatively minor.
Think of this front four in passing downs: Peppers (6'7), Izzy (6'6), Melton (6'3), Coples (6'6). That's four guys you can literally deploy in any combination left to right. All of them can play inside or outside, and with three guys 6'6 or over you have real length to close the throwing lanes. That's a lineup that can do damage and even more so if the OL doesn't know which of those 4 guys they'll be blocking from one play to the next.
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Copples would be a super-fit. He has the measurables you want in a 4/3 end. The clown from USC doesnt. When you examine that list of DE candidates I posted, look at the size of them, thats LB size.
OTOH, I dont see Copples falling to us. It would be nice to be wrong. Also a negative I see is Copples didnt play in the SEC, the strongest conference. He played in the ACC.
I like Brockers because he played in the SEC and was productive
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The questions I have about Brockers are first, is he a true two-way guy (DT and DE) in a 4-3, or is he a DT only? Or even a 3-4 DE?
The second and actually more important question is that he has a college career of only 27 games during which he had a grand total of 2 sacks (compared to 50 games and 24 sacks for Coples). The body of work simply isn't there with Brockers.
Brockers may have as much upside as Coples if not more but due to his lack of experience and technique I don't see him making as big of an impact right out of the gate. You could wind up being halfway through Brockers' rookie contract before the light really goes on and he starts paying dividends. Coples IMO will help a team from Day One.
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I'm a bit disappointed in my local newspaper out of Dallas. Usually about this time I'm posting tidbits of Rich Gosselin's mocks, top player at position lists, and his top 100 player list. Instead the paper decided to have a watered down writer by committee approach to this year's draft and Gosselin is off doing something else. It's basically a lot of fluff.
And their draft expert du jour did his mock and has the Bears taking that CB Gilmore. This isn't the first mock that sees it that way.
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Gilmore would really have me scratching my head, especially if Coples and/or Mercilus were still on the board.
The way I see it, CB is no more than the 4th most serious need on our team. Not to mention that drafting a CB in the 1st round after already re-signing Tim Jennings plus two other FAs seems kind of silly. But I'll admit, part of that is the fan in me that finds a sack/strip of the QB a lot more exciting than a pass knocked out of the WR's hands. Now, if this Gilmore kid is a guy that can give us solid coverage and still pick off 8 or 10 passes over the course of the year... then I'm all ears.
Agreed on missing Gosselein's insights... he's one of the more spot-on guys out there where this stuff is concerned.
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Here's how I group some of the names that have been associated with the Bears' 1st round pick.
"No Problem" - These are guys who physically justify a Top 20 pick, fit a position of need and would help us from Day One:
Includes: Coples DE, Mercilus DE, Hill WR, DeCastro OG, Floyd WR
"Ehhh..." - These are guys who physically justify a Top 20 pick, but I'm not sure are a great fit for the Bears and/or may underperform the Day One expectations many of us have for a 1st round pick:
Includes: Brockers DT, Martin OT, Perry, DE/OLB
"Really Skeptical" - These are guys I would really have to trust that Emery knows what he's doing cause the need/value equation doesn't click and especially if names from the first group are still on the board:
Includes: Wright WR, Gilmore CB
"W-T-F" - These are guys I would seriously object to and question Emery's competence... they may be decent players but would be an absolutely luxury pick on a team with so many higher and more urgent needs:
Includes: Fleener TE, Kuechly LB
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The questions I have about Brockers are first, is he a true two-way guy (DT and DE) in a 4-3, or is he a DT only? Or even a 3-4 DE?
The second and actually more important question is that he has a college career of only 27 games during which he had a grand total of 2 sacks (compared to 50 games and 24 sacks for Coples). The body of work simply isn't there with Brockers.
Brockers may have as much upside as Coples if not more but due to his lack of experience and technique I don't see him making as big of an impact right out of the gate. You could wind up being halfway through Brockers' rookie contract before the light really goes on and he starts paying dividends. Coples IMO will help a team from Day One.
Yes, he is very inexperienced, that I agree, but then again look at Mercilus. All his production was last year. Kinda puts up a red flag label of bust. Personally I dont believe Coples will last till #19. It'd be nice to be wrong
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Yes if Coples fell to 19 it would certainly seem like the football gods decided to give the Bears a break for a change.
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Yup, definitely agree. Like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Feiry all came the same day
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It seems like Emery has changed a lot of things for the better already with the Bears. Now if he can change our sh**ty luck for the better, then we've really got something.
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Yes, he is very inexperienced, that I agree, but then again look at Mercilus. All his production was last year. Kinda puts up a red flag label of bust.
You'd like to see several years of production for any top pick, but Mercilus is a junior right? And some kids, and they are kids, mature at different rates. Teams just have to do their homework more on Mercilus given the limited number of games he played. Combines are a bigger factor as are any post season all star games he played in.
But just about any DE in the first round is going to have a bust factor because their value always elevates as you approach draft day.
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New PFT Mock just out a few minutes ago has Bears taking Mercilus at 19 with Coples still on the board. Coples goes to the Bengals at 21.
I'm not seeing that. If both those guys are available I think the pick has to be Coples who is bigger, more versatile and has a more consistent record of college production.
It would be interesting to know if Peppers has been tracking Coples' career, if the two of them have any kind of relationship and what (if anything) Peppers has been putting in Emery's ear about him.
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Mercilus scares me, like Michael Haynes scared me. In fact just about anybody going to Illinois is risky.
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Emery doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that's gonna buy into that whole "hometown connection" thing and take Mercilus just cause he's from the state U. If he thinks Mercilus is the best player on the board he'll take him, and if he doesn't he'll take someone else.
Things like production, durability, coachability and character are gonna play into the equation a lot more than what school the guy went to.
Now, when it is legitimate to factor a kid's college into the equation is when it comes to level of competition. D2 guys are naturally gonna be more suspect in that regard but even for example, QBs and WRs coming out of the Big XII (RGIII, Wright, Blackmon, Weeden, Tannehill), which is notorious for having terrible pass defenses. In the case of Coples vs. Mercilus, you've got one guy facing ACC OTs and the other facing Big 10 OTs so it's probably about a toss-up.
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I see Haugh is drumming up support for Johnathon Martin.
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Martin has really fallen off a lot of people's radars.
You've got to look pretty hard to find a mock draft that even has him in the 1st round anymore.
In fact, you look at some of these mocks and basically after Kalil and Reiff go in the Top 12 or 13, there's nothing more happening at OT till the 2nd or the very end of the 1st at best.
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I've even heard some knocks on Kalil too, like he could even fall a bit
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If the Vikings pass on Kalil they will be spending another (high) 1st round pick on a new franchise QB within 2 years.
When you're in a division with Clay Matthews, Julius Peppers and the guys the Lions have on their DL, your LT position had better be locked down.
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Article in the Tribune today that says Emery will be placing a new emphasis on durability when evaluating players to draft.
That's good news.
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That should eliminate that kid from Syrexcuse, Jones (?) Who was it I am thinking of who played injured and never had a good year?
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Yeah Chandler Jones. Syracuse DE inexplicably being projected as a Top 20 pick by some mocks despite missing the last half of his final season with a knee.
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J.J. is stocking up for draft day ... Doritos ... BEER ... Little Ceasers Pizza ... all bought on draft day ...
Fresh !
It's too damn bad there isnt a site on this board to talk live. >:(
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This is a bad year for LT's.
That's why I see a trade down if Emery wants one and both Martin and Adams are on the board.
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I expect we'll go DE or trade down unless someone falls a bit further than expected.
I saw an article that Emery has like 7 guys they see as good fits at 19. If all 7 are still on the board and we can drop 5 spots and pick up a 3rd I expect he will.
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If all 7 are still on the board and we can drop 5 spots and pick up a 3rd I expect he will.
Well if he does that then he had better turn around and package those two 3rd rounders top get another pick in the 2nd. We need guys who will bring the impact from Day One and if you get too nuts on the tradedowns you can trade your way right out of 'em.
The other thing to consider is that the Lions and the Packers are drafting not too far behind us. If you trade down too far you're giving division rivals a chance at players who could really wind up hurting you. Sometimes it's almost as important to keep a particular player away from a rival as it is to have that guy on your own team.
FWIW, new Walter Football draft has us taking Brockers with Mercilus still on the board. Coples (Philly) and Floyd (Chargers) go ahead of us.
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Bears have 7 players in mind for their top draft pick
Good chance multiple defensive ends in consideration
By Brad Biggs, Chicago Tribune reporter
8:26 p.m. CDT, April 23, 2012
If he's feeling pressure to get it right from the start, Phil Emery didn't show any three days before the start of the NFL draft.
The Bears general manager, who was hired in January because of his eye for talent, was upbeat Monday morning at Halas Hall when he talked about the next opportunity to improve the franchise after a busy free agency period in which 15 players have been added or re-signed.
"I'm having a blast," Emery said. "I am having the time of my life."
Emery revealed the Bears are currently working from a list of seven players as they consider possibilities for the 19th overall pick in the first round Thursday. It's a fair bet multiple defensive ends are in consideration, a position the club has been linked to often in the predraft process.
Emery said the Bears have received calls from teams above and below them in the first round about making a deal, but those conversations are typical and being held across the league.
At no point did Emery specifically reference any prospects, but he called wide receiver, defensive end and defensive tackle strong positions in the draft, also adding that there are a good number of offensive tackles who project as interior linemen in the NFL.
He's approaching the draft with the mindset the Bears must win now, which could lead people to believe the club is definitely targeting a defensive end to work into the mix with Julius Peppers and Israel Idonije. The Bears have more of a need right now on the defensive line than anywhere else.
"It's important to any team in terms of being able to apply pressure on the quarterback," Emery said. "We're always trying to add players that complement the mix that we have."
The team has focused primarily on offense since Emery arrived, with the key additions being wide receiver Brandon Marshall and running back Michael Bush, and the third defensive end position has been largely unsettled since Mark Anderson set the franchise's rookie sack record with 12 in 2006.
Guard Chilo Rachal, a second-round pick of the 49ers in 2008, was officially signed Monday as was linebacker Geno Hayes, who Emery said will compete with Nick Roach at strong-side linebacker. They represent two of the moves that have provided Emery with options for the early rounds in the draft.
"What we've done in free agency really allows us the chance to go one way or the other," he said. "It's given us flexibility in terms of we can draft into a perceived strength so that we make sure we get the player who's going to help us win a championship the quickest way possible, or we can go and fill in what we perceive as a need.
"We're very orientated toward finding the player that's going to get us there the fastest. And if that means that player patched a hole, great. If that means that player is at a position of strength but is a little bit better at some aspect of his game than the ones that we have even though we have a strong position, then we'll go that way."
The Bears have some holes on the defensive line. Idonije was re-signed to a one-year contract, but the club missed on Jeremy Mincey in free agency. Then, there are the 773 snaps at defensive tackle that must be replaced as Amobi Okoye and Anthony Adams have departed. So, you can't rule tackle out as an option, either.
End game: Add Boise State's Shea McClellin to the list of defensive ends the Bears have done thorough work on, including a private workout on the campus in Idaho. McClellin has been a fast riser since the Senior Bowl and is viewed as a possible first-round pick. Some teams like him as linebacker in a 3-4 scheme, but he was the second-fastest defensive end at the NFL scouting combine. McClellin has been invited by the NFL to the draft in New York.
Extra points: Most teams issue yellow or red flags for draft prospects with medical concerns. Emery tilts them on the Bears' board, and a player that is ruled out is flipped upside down. … By trading for Marshall and signing Eric Weems and Devin Thomas, Emery says the need to draft a receiver early to make up for injured Johnny Knox has been mitigated. … In a 37-minute news conference, Emery used the word "championship" 12 times. … Emery didn't rule out the Bears ever appearing on HBO's "Hard Knocks," but don't rush to sign up for the cable pay channel in hopes of seeing behind the scenes from Olivet Nazarene University. "To me, it's all about football," Emery said. "Personally, no. But if that was in the best interest of the club, I am sure we would all consider it. If that helped bring the Chicago Bears, particularly to our fans in Chicago, we would consider it."
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Do not want McClellin at all.
Actually I don't want any of those 3-4 OLB types (McClellin, Perry, Upshaw or that guy from West Virginia). Those guys are totally not a fit for our scheme and would compromise our run D, which is the only thing our D is decent at right now.
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Why? Pack do, but they run a 3/4
OK I get it
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Since Brockers has come up several times in association with the Bears, here's a capsule report I found on him:
6'5 322
Strengths:
• Great size with large frame / long arms
• Displays excellent strength and power
• Extremely stout against the run game
• Is able to take on and shed blockers
• Very active with a good motor and range
• Offers positional / schematic versatility
• Still has considerable untapped potential
Weaknesses:
• Extremely raw and not a polished technician
• Repetroir of pass rush moves is limited
• Tendancy to play tall and lose leverage
• Instincts and awareness are questionable
• Young and overall maturity is a concern
Injury History:
• Limited by right shoulder ailment at Scouting Combine
Notes:
Was a one-year starter for the Tigers --- Opted to go pro as a redshirt sophomore with two years of eligibililty remaining --- Named 2nd Team All-SEC by the Associated Press in 2011 --- Could project to defensive tackle in a 4-3 scheme or defensive end in a 3-4 front --- Played in a deep, talented defensive line rotation in college --- Has the sheer talent to eventually be one of the best players to come out of this class but is a project who will require patience --- Will likely be selected in the first round but that lofty grade is based primarily on potential.
NFL Player Comparison: Ty Warren
It's worth noting that rankings on this guy are all over the board. One Website has him ranked the 5th best player in the entire draft, while another only has him as the 3rd best DT. I think the fact that he is so extremely young and raw is making it very hard to project his level of NFL success even though all the physical tools are clearly there.
Another thing worth noting is that when he came to LSU he was a 255-lb OLB. Which brings up the question of where all that extra weight came from but also indicates he has some inherent foot speed and athleticism even though his combine 40 (5.3) was underwhelming to say the least. 322 may be a few more pounds than he should ideally be carrying.
One red flag would be that while LSU defenses have been among the best in the country for the last several years, LSU D-Lineman who have been drafted high have not done particularly well in the NFL. The two guys on the Chiefs (Dorsey and Tyson Jackson) come immediately to mind.
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We've already had one DL with a limited pass rush repertoire- Alonzo Spellman. Bullrush, bullrush and...bullrush.
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And that's the big concern about Brockers. He has potential as a pass rusher but he's not there yet. In fact, another scouting report I saw on him said he will likely be a two-down player at the outset who may have to come out on passing downs.
In that respect he's kind of the defensive equivalent of Stephen Hill... a guy with the measurables to be a game-changer but you may have to deploy him strategically at first until he develops a more complete game. If our whole objective is to improve our pass rush and we're already solid on run D then you have to wonder if a guy like that is the best fit.
Brockers even wears #90 so the comparisons to Spellman are easily made.
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Why is he in such a hurry to leave school?
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That's a good question too. I saw a scouting report that said with another year of polish in college he could have been a Top 10 pick, maybe even Top 5.
I would suspect he didn't want to risk getting hurt during another season of college ball. With the new rookie salary structure you don't lose nearly as much being drafted 20 overall vs. Top 5 so maybe he decided to take the bird in the hand.
I would also want to make sure that shoulder that hindered him at the combine checked out A-OK.
And just to clarify, he only played 2 years at LSU but he was redshirted as a freshman so age-wise he is coming out as a junior. Which puts him at 21 or 20 at the youngest. Obviously he's nowhere close to getting his degree but as an NFL GM that's not your problem. With Peppers, Urlacher, etc. I'm not so concerned about the maturity thing with him as I am whether his skills are such that will make a difference in our pass D right away.
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I saw an article that Emery has like 7 guys they see as good fits at 19.
Anyone want to take a stab at the 7 guys that might be available at 19 that Emery has on his list?
Here's mine (in no particular order):
Dre Kirkpatrick (big CB but he's probably the longshot of the list)
Michael Floyd (probably gone before 19)
Kendall Wright (why can't he play the slot and move Earl Bennett to #2?)
Whitney Mercilus (I'm thinking if he's there at 19 - he's a Bear)
Shea McClellin (only because of recent talk)
Michael Brockers
Quinton Coples (probably gone before 19)
I would have had Jonathon Martin and Stephen Hill on the list but those players appear to be slipping into round 2. Stephen Gilmore has been associated with the Bears at 19 but I think he's gone before 19.
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Why is he in such a hurry to leave school?
$$$$$$$$$$
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Dallas,
Those 7 look reasonable to me.
McClellin is the only one on that list I'd have a real hard time with us picking. He just doesn't seem like a good fit at all, plus with Boise State the level of competition is a concern. The Packers are supposedly high on him so I wonder if the Bears "interest" in him might not be more just to see what they'll be facing if the Pack takes him.
Kendall Wright I'd have some trouble accepting cause spending a Top 20 pick on a 5'10 slot guy is a ridiculous overpay. Especially when we've already got Hester. You can get sub-6' speed guys down into the 3rd and 4th rounds. I also really question how much his college stats were inflated by playing against terrible Big XII pass defenses.
I'd question Kirkpatrick being one of the 7 only cause of the pot thing (which I know he was cleared of but still I think Emery will be looking at things like that very closely). In terms of ability and "fit" Kirkpatrick makes a lot of sense -- in fact one mock draft compared him to Tillman -- and he would be a fair value at 19. If Kirkpatrick isn't one of the 7 it could be Nick Perry though it seems he's sliding well below 19 in the majority of the mocks.
I don't think an OT will be our 1st round pick unless we trade down and maybe not even then.
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I think that list of seven is just about spot on. My guess is its Perry and not McClellin. I am sure they worked him out to see what he brings to the table. At least Perry has the measurables. And what does this DE talk say for Wooten? If the guy cant stay healthy what good is he?
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If we could somehow land Brockers AND an edge rusher... then our DL could make some noise.
I don't have a problem spending a 2nd round pick on a pass rush specialist... but with our 1st we've got to get someone that's more than a spot player.
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Thats why I wasnt too upset last year when Paea was slow to make the field because of injuries
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And really, if all Brockers can do at first is just collapse the pocket from the inside, occupy 2 blockers and occasionally deflect a pass with his long arms, he could still be an asset on passing downs too.
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If Emery is actually targeting 7 equivalent players then that tells me he might seriously be fishing for a trade down offer.
Here's a scenario. Bears trade down from 19 to 24th spot (whoever that is) which gives them a low 3rd round pick.
Now with that 3rd rounder they can trade that with their 2nd rounder to around the 5th spot in the 2nd round. It might give then a shot at those guys falling out of the first round, namely Martin the OT and Stephen Hill the WR or a DT. And you still have your original 3rd rounder.
Not suggesting the Bears do this...I think the 7 they target is probably more like 3 or 4. Got to keep the opponents guessing that the Bears at 19 just might take your player at 22, 23, etc.
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Interesting theory, Dallas.
24, just FWIW would be the Steelers. That would put us behind the Lions (23) but ahead of the Packers (28).
The one thing I think you don't want to do under any circumstances is trade down lower than the Packers because they have shown they will take a particular player just to screw us (like they did the year they traded up to get the good S and left us stuck with Major Wright). We've already lost to them too many times on the field, let's not lose to them on draft day as well.
If we have our eye on Hill than trading down below the Browns (22) is risky cause I've seen him going to the Browns at that spot in a few mocks.
Not suggesting the Bears do this...I think the 7 they target is probably more like 3 or 4.
Agreed with this as well. The list of 7 probably includes 3-4 guys that we can reasonably assume based on most of the mocks will be there for us, plus two or three ("best case") guys who will very likely be gone by 19 but would move to the top of the list should they fall (e.g., Coples, Floyd, possibly Gilmore or Kirkpatrick).
Another guy who could be in contention should we wind up with a high 2nd round pick is the S out of Notre Dame.
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The one thing I think you don't want to do under any circumstances is trade down lower than the Packers because they have shown they will take a particular player just to screw us
I don't think the Packers executed that particular trade up to screw the Bears.
Packers had a need for a starting safety - they didn't want Bigby back. Packers also knew the Bears were desperate for a safety and executed the trade up.
That it was the Bears they screwed was just icing on the cake.
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PFT is reporting that the NFL will not be allowing any television coverage from the green room this year, and that the networks' on-air talent are being directed not to leak the teams' picks before the commish announces them.
To which I say, about damn time. Nothing I had grown to hate worse than them showing the kid on the phone two minutes before it was actually announced from the podium.
It's already bad enough we know who the 1st two picks will be and likely, the 3rd.
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I seriously wouldnt trade down below the Lions, but very interesting theory which could happen. Everything would depend on who is there at #19. Maybe teams jump ahead of us at 19 and take our player. I forsee a lot of trading in the 1st round. Cleveland looks like an interesting trading partner if Tannehill drops past 15.
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Here is what Pompei is saying about trade downs:
What could make sense for the Bears is to trade down in the first round and acquire extra picks. Thanks to Phil Emery's moves with veterans, the Bears have enough flexibility that they are not locked into taking a player at one position. They can be reactive to the flow of the draft.
One need that should not be ignored early in the draft is defensive end. But there are enough good pass rushers that the Bears don't have to lock onto just one player. Take your pick from Whitney Mercilus, Courtney Upshaw, Shea McClellin, Nick Perry, Chandler Jones, Bruce Irvin, Vinny Curry or others.
The Bears need a draft like the Chiefs had in 2010 when they chose safety Eric Berry, running back Dexter McCluster, cornerback Javier Areas, guard Jon Asamoah, tight end Tony Moeaki and safety Kendrick Lewis.
And who was one of the architects of that draft? Phil Emery.
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I dont subscribe to the theory that you can get the same results out of any of those DEs, that its like einy, meiny, miney, moe. I even saw Pompei say the Bears shouldnt take Coples.
From Pompei's mail bag:
"I think Coples will fall out of the top 10, and I think he will fall out of the top 20. And he should. Coples is similar to Peppers athletically, but it's an insult to Peppers to say Coples plays like him. Peppers plays hard. Coples does not. Why should we believe Marinelli could get something out of Coples that no one else has been able to? Marinelli is a coach; he's not a miracle worker. Personally, I would never take a player who has been labeled an underachiever or a dog early in the draft. With a first-round pick, I want a player who is going to raise the level of intensity on my team, not one who is going to lower it."
Then again,
"If Whitney Mercilus, Chandler Jones and Nick Perry were available for the Bears with the 19th overall pick, whom do you think they should take, and whom do you think they would take assuming they draft a pass rusher? Most big boards I've seen have Mercilus rated higher than Perry in spite of Perry's incredible athleticism and considerable production. Do you have any idea why this is? Sean Keady
I would take Mercilus first, and I think the Bears would, too. Perry would be No. 2 on my board. Perry had better workout numbers than Mercilus (particularly in the vertical jump and bench press), but Mercilus had more production last season. Mercilus had 16 sacks to 9.5 for Perry. He had 19.5 knockdowns to 14.5 to Perry, according to the Stats Ice system which is being used by some NFL teams. And he had eight hurries compared to 6.5 for Perry. Some scouts see Perry as a bit of an underachiever, whereas Mercilus gives it all he has."
Personally I think we should suspect a little Illinois homerism factors into those comments. And nobody factors in the fact that Mercilus didnt put up any number before this past season. Like where was he then? Sleeping?
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Here is what Pompei is saying about trade downs:
What could make sense for the Bears is to trade down in the first round and acquire extra picks. Thanks to Phil Emery's moves with veterans, the Bears have enough flexibility that they are not locked into taking a player at one position. They can be reactive to the flow of the draft.
One need that should not be ignored early in the draft is defensive end. But there are enough good pass rushers that the Bears don't have to lock onto just one player. Take your pick from Whitney Mercilus, Courtney Upshaw, Shea McClellin, Nick Perry, Chandler Jones, Bruce Irvin, Vinny Curry or others.
The Bears need a draft like the Chiefs had in 2010 when they chose safety Eric Berry, running back Dexter McCluster, cornerback Javier Areas, guard Jon Asamoah, tight end Tony Moeaki and safety Kendrick Lewis.
And who was one of the architects of that draft? Phil Emery.
And that is exactly what NE also did this off-season.
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Pompei did bring up another name we havent talked about here and thats Vinny Curry.
Whats with him Yapp? And whats your take on the Pompei knock on Coples while rating Mercilus so high? Is it a lot of Illini homerism?
But whether the Bears draft at 19 or drop down I still see a DE as the first Bear player taken.
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Definite homerism by Pompeii. Coples is by far a more complete player than Mercilus, much bigger and with a better record of consistent college production. Plus, Coples can move inside for spot duty whereas Mercilus is strictly an outside guy who in fact some project as a better 3-4 OLB than a 4-3 DE. Not to say I don't think Mercilus could help us, but if Coples and Mercilus are both still on the board, Coples is clearly the better value.
That may all be a moot point though if Coples goes Top 10... see below:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/24/panthers-brass-met-with-quinton-coples-on-monday/
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I believe Vinny Curry is a small school guy (Marshall?) who has been noticed late.
He has skills and college production but played in a smaller conference. He'll go higher than expected.
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Personally I think Coples fits the Bears needs better than Mercilus. Glad to feel I was correct on the Ilini homerism. From what I am reading its like I expected that the Bears are going to draft a DE first. A trade down also is very likely if Coples and a couple of others are gone by 19.
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He'll go higher than expected.
Bottom line on Curry is, a strong, high-motor guy with great character, a lot of college games under his belt and a good repertoire of pass rush moves, but who doesn't always hold up that well against the run. He is by no means an elite athlete, doesn't have a lot of length and is really slow considering his unremarkable size (4.98 at 6'3 and 265) ... so he may be about as good as he's gonna get, and it's that lack of upside (along with concerns about level of competition) that have him considered by most as a 2nd-tier guy in this deep DE class. That being said, he has had double digit sacks his last two seasons and I'm not sure there's another DE in this year's class who can claim that. He also had 2 sacks in the Senior Bowl.
He's not a guy that's big, fast or strong enough to draw double teams in the NFL but he sounds like a kid that could take advantage of the opportunities that would come on the opposite side of a stud like Peppers. Not a franchise defender but potentially a good to very good complementary guy. Might be worth a look with our 2nd round pick but would be a serious reach any higher than that because he just doesn't have the physical tools to take his game much farther. He appears to be very much a "finished product" for both good and bad.
Specifically regarding the Bears, there's also a question of system fit, since one scouting report I read compared him to Cameron Wake and said he would need to be an OLB in a 3-4 scheme at the next level.
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Brockers in the 1st and Curry in the 2nd?
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Curry kind of sounds like Alex Brown. Nothing special but a solid/dependable guy that will get you 8 sacks per year.
I doubt he is would be any better at the NFL level though than Izzy or Wooton.
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Alex Brown was not a 2nd round pick was he? Maybe 3rd or 4th round?
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Curry kind of sounds like Alex Brown. Nothing special but a solid/dependable guy that will get you 8 sacks per year.
I was thinking the same thing. Brown was probably a little better run defender whereas Curry sounds like he may bring a little more pop as a pass rusher. We got Alex Brown in the 4th so considering what he gave us that was definitely a high-value pick.
And yeah I was also contemplating a 1-2 combo of Brockers and Curry. If both of those guys were able to make an impact immediately we could probably get by with the D-Backfield we have right now. I've got to admit I'm really struggling to see how any CB we'd take in the 1st could make enough of a difference in our pass D to warrant a Top 20 pick. I think I'd rather take my chances on a guy (or two) up front and hope that could really turn Peppers loose this year to earn all those mega millions we're paying him.
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I seem to recall Brown was a guy many thought would go late 1st/early 2nd but fell for some reason.
I can't recall if it was work ethic or because he was from Florida or something.
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Good memory, Nav. Yeah Alex Brown did fall quite a ways. In fact I think he was originally projected to go about where Curry is this year.
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Didnt Alex Brown fall because of smoking pot?
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That's what came to my mind.
Things have certainly changed as regards attitudes toward the wacky weed. In the case of Alex Brown it cost him a good 2 and half rounds... But this year there's guys coming out that have admitted they smoked and even got busted at the Combine (Mike Adams), and they'll fall maybe half a round if even that much.
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Kids using drugs. Some things never change no matter the year, social status, or potential. Drugs of choice are one of the things that bind a generation together, until they wake up one day and realize its time to grow up. Some never do. Ryan Leaf comes to mind. GB and Detroit will draft well, the Bears need to draft exceptionally. Here's hoping.
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I think our problem last year in our defensive backfield was more at the safety position than the corners. Conte and Major Wright when they were both in there together did pretty well.
You'd still like to upgrade Tillman and Jennings but they really weren't the problem with our low ranked pass defense - I'd rank poor pass rush and safety play ahead of CB play.
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Seems like between the kids that are on the chronic and the ones coming out of school with injury issues there's not a whole lot of players to pick from who are both talented and "clean" anymore.
Emery's on record as saying the Bears aren't gonna be drafting medical cases anymore, and I'm pretty sure he's not fond of potheads, so hopefully he can still come up with some players for us that are good but don't have all the baggage.
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I think our problem last year in our defensive backfield was more at the safety position than the corners. Conte and Major Wright when they were both in there together did pretty well.
You'd still like to upgrade Tillman and Jennings but they really weren't the problem with our low ranked pass defense - I'd rank poor pass rush and safety play ahead of CB play.
Upgrading the DLine will make mediocre corners look good due to less time the CB needs to cover. If we improve the pass rush it will solve a lot of the backfield problems
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You'd still like to upgrade Tillman and Jennings but they really weren't the problem with our low ranked pass defense - I'd rank poor pass rush and safety play ahead of CB play.
Upgrading the DLine will make mediocre corners look good due to less time the CB needs to cover. If we improve the pass rush it will solve a lot of the backfield problems
Totally agree with both of you and that's why it's been boggling me to see some of the mock drafters identify CB as a top need and something that needs to be addressed in the 1st round (Gilmore or Kirkpatrick). It just isn't the case.
Tillman is pretty good, but getting older. Jennings is serviceable as a #2 in this scheme though I question whether he'd even make the roster on some teams. When those two are healthy along with a healthy Conte and Wright at the safety spots, we have a D-Backfield that can hang provided we can upgrade our pass rush by a couple of ticks. The problem comes when 1 or more of those 4 starters are out due to injury and that happened a lot last year. So what we really need to upgrade in the D-Backfield isn't our starters, but the guys backing them up. That can be done in FA (as Emery has already started to do) and the middle rounds of the draft.
Look for the Bears to draft a CB or S sometime this weekend but I would be very surprised if it's before the 3rd round.
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Look for the Bears to draft a CB or S sometime this weekend but I would be very surprised if it's before the 3rd round.
They are a bit deeper at CB with 4 experience corners but at safety all we have there is Stelz and he's a SS. I'd bet they address both positions in the draft but I'd rank those positions after WR, OT, DT and DE as far as need.
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The few games I saw last year, what I saw was short passing killing us early, the DL couldn't get there because the QB was getting the ball out in 2 seconds. Frank Omiyale and Edwin Williams can hold up Jevon Kearse and Warren Sapp for 2 seconds. That seemed to open up the D for deeper passes as well.
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What's this Burfict guy's deal?
6 months ago he's a Top 15 pick, now he probably won't even get drafted.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/report-burfict-hosley-failed-drug-tests-at-combine/
Dude's got some major issues to address.
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So the draft starts at 7pm. What time will the Bears pick be, approximately?
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Hard to say cause we don't know how long the first two picks will take to be announced even though everyone in the free world knows who they're gonna be.
Hopefully the Colts and Skins selections are both announced within the first 5 minutes and we can get on with the good stuff.
But... 10 mins per pick = 6 picks per hour and we're at 19 (barring a trade)... so if every team takes their max allotted time we would be on the clock right around the start of the 4th hour, i.e., 10:00 CT.
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Regardless of what time the Bears are up, here's what I expect to happen.
Goodell will announce the Bears pick and they'll go immediately to commercial. Then when they come back the talking heads will start analyzing the team that's picking after us.
As I recall last year, they barely even discussed our pick of Carimi and I'm not even sure they even rolled any footage of him. It was like our pick never even happened.
Only thing more frustrating that would be, watching 3+ hours of the draft and then the commish gets up there and announces that the Bears have traded out of the 1st round...
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That's what happened all right. Dickheads didn't even admit that the Bears had picked. Feces.
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it seems like especially in the 1st round teams will take almost the whole time to make sure no one wants to trade with them.
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Yup, and I expect that to happen already with the Vikings at 3. From everything I've heard, they're not in love with Kalil enough that they wouldn't give him up if they could get a nice package of picks to trade down.
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Good:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/janoris-jenkins-off-a-number-of-draft-boards/
I hope we're one of teams that have taken him off their board. He's PacMan Jones all over again. Let him get his money for all his baby mommas from somewhere else.
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Oh I expect there to be trades all right. To think otherwise is kinda foolish
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Late breaking rumor is that the Jets really really like Trent Richardson.
Considering he has been assumed to go to the Browns at 4 they would have to trade with the Vikings to ensure they got him, and it would cost them a fortune to move up there from 16. But if that happened who knows what kind of domino effect it could have? Something like that could result in a draft that winds up way different than any of the mocks had it going down.
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PLEASE let this not happen: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/mike-tanier-monday-mock-draft-1-16-132239734.html;_ylt=AmLlLGGXmE9YESub3jIDxV45nYcB
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Yeah, 19 is at least 10 spots too high for Konz.
But then, look at the writer's snarky commentary in explaining the pick and it's pretty easy to tell he's an idiot.
That's a dream draft for the Jags though to get Kalil at 7. If the Rams were to choose Blackmon over Kalil you'd know that even with all the changes at the top in St. Louis, they're still destined for failure.
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I expect that even though Luck and Griffin could theoretically both be announced by 7:05 tomorrow night, that the teams drafting immediately after that will be leaning heavily on Goodell to take the full 10 minutes for each of those picks so they have the most time to work some deals. If I'm the Vikings GM and I'm trying to get out of the #3, I'd sure like to have almost 30 minutes for teams to bring me their offers vs. 15.
And also, the networks are gonna want to give their talking heads plenty of time to gush over the 2 QBs right at the top of the telecast. You've got to know they'll have at least 3-4 minutes of highlight footage cued up for both Luck and Griffin. So I'm not expecting us to get to the 3rd overall selection any faster than we would have if Picks 1 and 2 were in doubt.
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PLEASE let this not happen: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/mike-tanier-monday-mock-draft-1-16-132239734.html;_ylt=AmLlLGGXmE9YESub3jIDxV45nYcB
No friggin way do I believe the Bears would take Konz a Center at #19, over #20 Coples or #21 Floyd. Emery would be laughed at and ridiculed. And he went to SB specifically to watch Floyd work out
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If I'm the Vikings GM and I'm trying to get out of the #3, I'd sure like to have almost 30 minutes for teams to bring me their offers vs. 15.
Why wait until tomorrow night - start taking offers now. We all know who goes #1 and #2.
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On top of which, Konz is coming off a serious ankle injury. That doesn't square with Emery's stated objective of taking guys with sound medical histories.
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Again, I would be shocked if the Bears took anything other than a DE or a DT with #19.
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Mercilus popular pick for Bears at No. 19
12:11 p.m. CDT, April 25, 2012
During Tuesday night’s Chicago Tribune/WSCR-AM 670 “NFL draft roundtable,” which featured football experts from the Tribune and the Score, host Laurence Holmes asked each panelist who the Bears will draft at No. 19 and who they should draft. And Illinois' Whitney Mercilus was a popular choice.
Here are the panlists' responses:
Dan Pompei: “If the Bears are focused on a defensive end, they’re fortunate. Because it’s a strong group of defensive ends in the first round. If they don’t get the one guy they want, they’re going to have other options.”
He then listed the defensive ends who could be taken in the first round: Whitney Mercilus of Illinois, Quinton Copels of North Carolina, Courtney Upshaw of Alabama, Melvin Ingram of South Carolina, Shea McClellin of Boise State, Nick Perry of USC, Chandler Jones of Syracuse and Andre Branch of Clemson.
“That’s a lot of options,” Pompei said.
Mercilus “is the guy who fits the (the Bears) best. ... He gives you that explosion off the edge. Think about in concert with what Peppers give you and you’ve got a great balance, a great combination.”
Brad Biggs: Regading Mercilus, “I think he fits.” He’s not Michael Haynes all over again. “He’s a completely different player.”
Biggs described McClellin as a “high-motor guy. He’d fit there, too.” He also said that if Ingram were still available, “you have to take a long hard look.” But since the majority of the Bears’ big moves thus far have been on offense, “Lovie Smith’s going to be in the GM’s ear (saying that he) needs some defense.”
Zach Zaidman: “Mercilus from an athletic standpoint and a measurable standpoint fits exactly what the Bears are looking for.”
Regarding Copels, he said he has some worries: “If a guy doesn’t work when he has no money, is he really going to put forth the effort when he has guaranteed money? That would concern me.”
“So what happens if Ingram isn’t available? If Mercilus isn‘t available? They may have to go in a different direction in terms of position. Then you may start to look at offensive line.” Zaidman said you could narrow down to four positions that the Bears will have a shot at if they still have a first-round pick: defensive end, offensive line, defensive tackle or wide receiver.
Matt Bowen: “I’m with everyone else on Mercilus. ... He’s got 4.6 speed and can come off the line.”
He said he also likes Copels. “I know there are some knocks on him, but I think Lovie Smith would give him the practice to play hard.”
Looking at cornerback, Bowen said Dre Kirkpatrick of Alabama has “size, he’s got length. ... He can be like an Al Harris in the NFL.”
Also worth watching, he said, are OT Riley Reifff from Iowa and OT Jonathan Martin of Stanford.
Mike Mulligan: He likes Chandler Jones of Syracuse: “His stock is moving up and I think he’ll be there when they pick.” Mulligan said he also likes Mercilus and said there are three or four good pass rushers who should be available when the Bears get their pick.
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I'm just not feeling the love for Chandler Jones like some people are. He just doesnt have that wow factor you expect from a Top 20 pick, plus he dinged his knee pretty bad this past season. Mercilus feels like the safer pick by far.
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BUILD THE TRENCHES !
Any son of a biitch on either side of the ball. ;)
OG is BORING ... until Cutler gets planted. DECASTRO.
DE is EXCITING ... MERCILUS is a hometown boy.
Whos there five years from now?
You want to keep your QB ARMORED...
in the long run.
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Mayock thinks the Bears take Chandler Jones DE and that he will end up being the best defensive player in the draft. Mercilus goes one pick before the Bears in his mock.
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Mayock meet Phill Emery who says that they arent taking any medical risks.
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I heard on NFLN a few minutes ago they speculate the Browns will Take Blackmon at #4 if he is there and maybe Doug Martin? RB at their 22 instead of Richardson.
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Chandler Jones is a little too much like Wootten for me to get on board with. Mayock is on target more often than not but best defensive player in the draft? I mean, this guy wasnt even on anybodys radar as recently as the combine.
The other thing I wonder if anyone has really considered is that Syracuse plays indoors on a fast track. How will Jones game translate to a muddy Soldier Field or Lambeau in December?
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I just cant see Chandler Jones after what Emery said about not taking medical cases. I mean like Emery could have even called him out by name.
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OTOH, what if the Bears really DID wind up wither best defender out of this years draft?
It would sure be sweet payback for all those years we suffered under the imbecile Angelo.
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Does anyone know if Emery has ever traded up?
We are about to find out.
Gentlemen,
Let us wish ourselves GOOD LUCK on what is about to be.
Some theme music wouldnt hurt :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YswkF-d2VZ8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YswkF-d2VZ8)
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I hope this Jones rumor is a smoke screen.
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Hearing that Bama CB Kirkpatrick is not being as highly rated by GMs as the mocks have been assuming. If he fell to us in the 2nd I'd be ecstatic.
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ESPN has Jones ranked as the 11 best prospect of the draft. Mercelus is 32. Crapshoot
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PFT mock today has us taking Mercilus with Flloyd still on the board. Now that is an interesting dilema, which would you take?
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Pompeii has us taking Mercilus with Floyd and DeCastro still on the board.
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http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/12136782-606/draft-hype-isnt-the-game-baylor-wr-kendall-wright-came-to-play.html
Nice puff piece on Wright. If we do take him, he sounds like a good player. Not your typical WR Diva.
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Most mocks I've seen have Wright going no higher than 22 (Browns). The Texans at 26 seem to be another popular potential landing spot for him.
What Wright's up against is the fact that there's a guy out there named Stephen Hill who's 6 inches taller, 30 lbs heavier and runs a faster 40. In an era when the average height of a CB is at least 6', spending a Top 20 pick on a 5'10 WR is a tough proposition for a lot of GMs to swallow.
I've heard Kendall Wright compared to Percy Harvin (minus the durability and off-field issues), and that kind of player is certainly valuable but as any Vikings fan will tell you, Harvin hasn't been nearly enough to carry their air game on his back and when you take a WR in the Top 20 that's what you expect him to do.
It's a classic case of production vs. potential when you're comparing Wright to Hill and I'm interested to see which one is drafted first cause at this point it's really too close to call.
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Getting stoked... 14 hours give or take from now and Emery turns in his first draft pick as the Bears GM.
C'mon Phil... reverse the curse.
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Sam Farmer is still tabbing the Bears to take Nick Perry at 19 in his mock draft this morning.
I would say that is definitely a minority opinion.
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The Chicago beat reporters are doing their best to draft Mercilus for the Bears. The Suntimes is screaming for OLine help. I cant say as I can argue too badly. Maybe we can get that OT from Oklahoma somewhere. I still believe the Bears will go DE with the first pick
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I just watched some combine footage of Mercilus and also some game highlights. That kid can really move.
As for OL... I would be surprised if that position is addressed any sooner than the 3rd round. The only offensive position I see even getting a look before then is WR.
That being said, if Emery can find us an O-Lineman in the middle rounds who's good enough to make a legitimate push to start this year -- at any position on the OL -- I will bow to him in homage.
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But where was he the year before
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Very valid question.
Just for comparison, I also watched some game and combine footage of Coples and I have to admit I can see where some scouts would be skeptical. For a guy with his supposed athleticism he just looks a little tentative and sluggish a lot of the time. Like the kind of guy where you'd constantly have to have other players and/or coaches kicking his ass to get the most out of him. That's really not the kind of player Lovie or Marinelli go for. They want self-starters.
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The positives for Mercilus is that he had a really fast 40 (4.68) and his bench was better than Chandler's and Coples (27 vs 22 vs 25) and had those 16 sacks in 2011.
And everything I've read about Mercilus says that he has a non-stop motor - the opposite of what we've heard about Coples.
Negatives are that Mercilus has borderline size (6-3 261) and had just the one big year.
If Bears really like him, they might have to trade with Cincinatti to leap frog the Chargers who are also an option for Mercilus.
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Here's a capsule on Chandler Jones, who Mayock has falling to the Bears:
6-5⅜ | Weight: 266 | 4.87
Strengths:
• Excellent size with a large frame and long arms
• Very powerful with impressive natural strength
• Active, violent hands to stay clean and disengage
• Stout at the point of attack against the run game
• Good instincts, awareness and a high football IQ
• Shows solid range and does a nice job in pursuit
• Plays with a terrific motor and is a hard worker
• Should offer positional and schematic versatility
• Pro bloodlines and still has a ton of potential
Weaknesses:
• Not overly explosive w/ average speed and quickness
• A tad stiff with marginal agility and change of direction
• Has a tendency to play too high and will lose leverage
• Must develop additional pass rush moves / counters
• Coming off an injury so durability is a minor concern
Injury History:
• Missed five games with a knee injury in 2011
Notes:
A three-year starter for the Orange --- Brother Arthur also played at Syracuse and is now with the Baltimore Ravens --- Brother Jon "Bones" Jones is a UFC Fighter --- Named 2nd Team All-Big East in 2010 and 1st Team in 2011 --- Could project as a defensive or outside linebacker in a 3-4 or a defensive end in a 4-3 --- Not a dynamic pass rusher but ability to play multiple positions in either an even or odd front will be a major selling point on Draft Day --- An extremely intriguing physical specimen who is essentially a raw ball of clay waiting to be molded.
NFL Player Comparison:
Calais Campbell
Mayock summary (from his Mock on NFL.com): The Bears cannot believe Chandler Jones has fallen to them. The general public might not know a lot about him, but my view is -- and I'll take a lot of heat for this -- three years from now, he might be the best defensive player to come out of this draft.
In Mayock's video commentary on Jones he says he has not maxed out his physical development yet and could easily wind up playing at 280 or 285 vs. his current weight when it's all said and done. He also says he has 35-inch arms. It's the "raw ball of clay" and "three years from now" language that concerns me a little. That tells me this guy is a project who might not do much for us right away, when what we really need is a guy who can make a difference right out of the gate. If it takes him 3 years, by then the window has closed on Peppers and what have we really gained?
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At the combines Jones weighed 247 - looks like he's add about 20lb. His straight ahead speed is nothing special, but he appears agile to me with his 3 cone drill and 20 yard shuttle times. He also led all DEs with a 35" vertical and has a 35.5 arm length - all which are excellent.
I'd like to know more about the injury.
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35" vertical and that kind of wingspan would come in handy knocking down those Rogers and Stafford passes.
I'd like to know more about the injury.
Same here. All I know was it was a knee. But was it something that recovered with rest, or did he have surgery?
From the reports I've read, that was his only injury of significance during a 3 year (+ redshirt) college career. So, was this just a freak thing and he's a guy that will play the next 10 years in the NFL without missing a game? Or was this just the first incident with others to come down the road (especially if he starts carrying more weight)?
That being said, even if he checks out with the Bears medical staff, I don't trust those clowns as far as I could throw them. Chris Williams, Carimi, Gaines Adams, etc. The list goes on and on. They've gotten things wrong more often than right on players the past few years, seems to me.
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Here's to Yapp's chant!!
Time to
REVERSE THE CURSE!!!!
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If the Bears rank Coples/Mercilus really high but Jones is on their "7" list - we might see that trade down.
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The fact that scouts have apparently been talking about Chandler Jones for awhile and yet he wasn't showing up as a first rounder in the mock drafts until a couple weeks ago, makes me think he might be legit.
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Here's a nugget I found on Walter Football, that gives some more insight into Jones and explains (sort of) his injury this season. Apparently the injury happened early in the season (I had thought it had been season-ending), so he has actually rehabbed from it already. Again, though note the "project" language:
Jones been the quintessential late riser. Many pundits have moved him up into the first round and potentially cracking the top 20. Jones is viewed as a versatile player that could fit a 4-3 defense or 3-4 defense. He has taken a lot of pre-draft visits.
At the Combine, Jones had a disappointing performance with a slow 40 and a low bench-press total. As a redshirt junior this year, Jones totaled 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 7.5 tackles for a loss, two forced fumbles and one interception. However when you consider that he accumulated that in seven games, it looks much better.
Jones missed five games with a leg injury in the first half of the season, but he came back strong with four sacks in three games after returning to the lineup. Jones had four sacks as a sophomore, so he never had a season of big time production at the college level.
Jones has a nice combination of size and speed. He is physical with offensive linemen and understands leverage concepts. Jones also does a good job of getting underneath the pads of linemen to get pressure on bull rushes. Furthermore, he has good pursuit skills and a quality motor.
Typically, Jones tries to beat tackles with either his speed around the corner, or his strength on a bull rush. In the NFL, he is going to need to add some rip, spin and other pass-rushing moves. In college, Jones could live off his athletic ability, but in the NFL, he will need to expand his game.
Jones is a raw prospect, and the team that drafts him should expect some developmental time.
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RTC!RTC!RTC! Purge the Jer remains from the Bear colon! RTC! I'm getting odd looks in the office being adorned in my 34 jersey and face painted dark navy blue and orange. Aready had to beat a woman senseless after her shout of "Go Broncos!" I swear, you would think some people wouldn't know what today is. Oops. They're coming for me now. 46 signing off.
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The thing about Mercilus is his cool name: Mercy-less. ;)
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If anyone's curious, here were Syracuse's opponents this past season:
Wake Forest
Rhode Island
USC
Toledo
Rutgers
Tulane
West Virginia
Louisville
Connecticut
South Florida
Cincinnati
Pitt
Admittedly, not a lot of NFL-caliber O-Linemen in that lineup (other than USC), and so level of competition with Jones is a legit question. A guy like Mercilus would have faced far better OTs almost every week in the Big 10, and I'm sure that's something Emery has taken into account.
RTC.
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I would be very disappointed if we took Jones. If the other DE's are gone at 19 look at the DT's or OL. If that many DE's are gone by 19 there will be good options at other positions
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A run on the top DEs (including Jones) could push down a guy like Brockers... who's a completely different type of player but could still help our D a lot.
And then to hedge our bets maybe we come back in the 2nd and see if an edge guy like Curry is still around. Which doesn't leave a lot of picks left for WR, OL and DB but Emery has shown he knows how to find starters down into the mid rounds too.
Our DL has a real chance to make some hay in our division with Clifton (GB) retiring, Backus (Detroit) getting old and the Vikings potentially passing up Kalil which would leave them very exposed at LT. The more I think about it the more I think this is the year to go balls-out to put together a killer DL rotation and hope the back 7 will take care of itself.
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Injury History:
• Missed five games with a knee injury in 2011
I hear he never gained his quickness back either as evidenced by his slow combine speed. Avoid the plague
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I like Brockers. He can definitely help the Bears. I worry about Mercilus. I wonder how and why he had this newfound speed and production. You think it might have been roids? It makes me wonder just like Suh too
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Jones did not have a great 40 time (4.87) but his 3 cone drill and 20 yard shuttle were clearly superior to Mercilus and Coples.
40 3 cone 20 shuttle vertical
Jones 4.87 7.07 4.38 35"
Mercilus 4.68 7.17 4.53 32"
Coples 4.78 7.57 4.78 31.5"
I wouldn't draft Jones solely on combine stats - but he is a very agile athelete.
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If a guy only "finds" some speed, I tend not to suspect roids.
It's when a guy packs on 20+ lbs of muscle AND gets a lot faster over the course of just a few weeks that I get suspicious.
Some guys develop later than others and it could be that Mercilus is a "late bloomer" who just hit his stride this past season. The thing that makes Mercilus legit to me is the quality of O-Linemen he faced in conference play against teams like Ohio State, Michigan and Wisconsin.
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Dallas,
Good stats on those three, thanks for posting.
The other thing I look at (but can't find right now), is the 10-yard split on the 40 time. That tells you how quickly a guy gets off the mark and up to speed, which is really what it's all about when you're facing off against a long-armed 320-lb OT with license to hold.
If I've got one DE that runs a 4.8 and another that runs a 4.6 but the 4.8 guy blows away the 4.6 guy in the first 10 yards, I'm willing to pretty much toss the 40 time out the window. If your DEs have to chase a RB 20 or 30 yards down the field then other people on your D aren't doing their jobs.
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Old non trusting codger that I am, I believe if something is to good to be true, then run away. Mercilius to me screams Tony Manderich, he's had some "help" in aquiring his newfound wt, and speed.
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Ditto
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Mercilus hasn't put on that much weight as I recall. He's barely 260 as it is.
Are you sure you guys aren't thinking of Nick Perry?
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So where did Mercilus get all this sudden speed from the year before to this past year? How was he able to get to the QB this past year where he wasnt able to before. I worry about sudden light bulbs that get turned on. I am not sold its not some kind of performance enhancing drug
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New Tribune article says Bears have worked out Fletcher Cox.
Well that's fine except Cox is now a consensus Top 10 pick which means it would cost us most of the rest of our draft to go up and get him. I like what I've seen and heard of him, but he's not worth that.
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Maybe thats just to be able to compare to others like Brockers.
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http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8728
A draft contest with a chance to win autographed Bears gear and possibly tickets.
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Maybe thats just to be able to compare to others like Brockers.
Good point. FWIW, Mayock has Cox being the first D-Lineman chosen, at pick 9 to the Panthers.
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#9 is where I expect Cox to land. He is too good to last till #19.
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One mock drafter thought Cox could go as high as 7 to the Jags.
The other guy whose stock has skyrocketed almost beyond belief is the S from Bama, Mark Barron. From a mid-teens to 20 pick he has now **** the Top 10 in several mocks.
Rieff, by default, is slipping down the boards some. I still don't see him getting much past the Cardinals at 13 though. They have needed OT help forever.
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I'm not sure about Mercilus, was he like Dontari Poe and the only guy on the DL for his first few years? Did he improve his technique? Did he finally get it? Did he do a better job of working out and turn some fat into muscle?
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Very valid questions. Mercilus played 24 games his first two seasons (when he had 2 sacks total)... so it's not like his lack of production was tied to lack of opportunity. And then BAM, a breakout season this last year.
I would expect that Emery, Lovie & Co. have had pretty in-depth conversations not only with Mercilus but with his U. of Ill. coaches to try and get to the bottom of that story.
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He could be a one year wonder much like Mark Anderson was
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Keep in mind he is only a Junior. It is not unheard of for guys to come on their Junior and Senior years after not doing a whole lot the first two years.
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It's too bad that Illinois didn't play Iowa last year. Would have been interesting to see how Mercilus fared against Reiff.
And just to clarify, he had a redshirt year so age-wise he's actually a senior even though he only had 3 years of game experience.
The bottom line on him though is if Emery wants him, he'd best be grabbing him at 19 cause I doubt he drops much farther than that. Some scouts see him as having the ability to play 3-4 OLB so that puts more teams in the mix for him as well.
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Mark Anderson was a situational pass rusher. Mercilus is an every down player.
I watched a few Illini games last year. He was a beast in all of them I watched. Very high motor guy.
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More Illini homerism
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As far as intangibles, Mercilus seems like a Lovie / Marinelli type of guy. Leadership qualities, not a head case or a gangsta, hard worker, good motor. A guy that's not going to embarrass the franchise off the field. I have seen a couple of scouting reports questioning his game instincts and that's something you can only "fix" so much from a coaching perspective, but the rest of the package looks pretty solid and I think there's decent potential for him to build on the success he had his last year at school. Also, being from a Big 10 school you know he's had experience playing in some not-so-great weather and footing come the late season.
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I am not a homer. The Illini suck. Him and the one WR were the only two who stood out to me on the entire team.
Mercilus will go in the first round. Probably before the Bears pick.
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Very valid questions. Mercilus played 24 games his first two seasons (when he had 2 sacks total)... so it's not like his lack of production was tied to lack of opportunity. And then BAM, a breakout season this last year.
As Pekin, said he may have not matured into the player he is now when he was 18 or 19 years old.
As for 24 games and only 2 sacks. His tackle stats would suggest that he only played sparingly in those 24 games.
2011 57 tackles
2010 16 tackles
2009 8 tackles
I'm not saying he's the best DE or that we should draft him but this junk about him being selected just cuz he went to Illinois is a joke. Come on.
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As far as intangibles, Mercilus seems like a Lovie / Marinelli type of guy. Leadership qualities, not a head case or a gangsta, hard worker, good motor. A guy that's not going to embarrass the franchise off the field. I have seen a couple of scouting reports questioning his game instincts and that's something you can only "fix" so much from a coaching perspective, but the rest of the package looks pretty solid and I think there's decent potential for him to build on the success he had his last year at school. Also, being from a Big 10 school you know he's had experience playing in some not-so-great weather and footing come the late season.
Yeah, and so was Mark Anderson a Lovie/Marinelli kind of guy. Thats just the way I see it. I see the comparason as legit
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Pekin brings up a good point. One thing I always look at when evaluating a player is the supporting cast.
A guy like Jon Martin... did he look better than he actually is because of playing with DeCastro, Luck and Fleener? The Alabama defenders (Kirkpatrick, Hightower, Upshaw, Barron)... how are those guys gonna do on separate teams, individually or was that Bama D truly greater than the sum of its parts? Brockers... same deal... is he a true franchise quality guy or is he benefiting from other teammates of equal if not even superior talent to his?
If a guy like Mercilus is getting it done on a crappy team with no supporting cast -- against top-tier competition on top of that -- that goes as a plus in my book.
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If our criteria for picking a DE weighs "level of competition faced" that highly, the obvious choices are Ingram and Upshaw.
Emery has shown a love for SEC players his past few drafts in KC, to boot...
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He could be a one year wonder much like Mark Anderson was
And Mark Anderson posted 10 sacks last season with the Pats - guess he's now a two year wonder!
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I don't think the worst case scenario with Mercilus is Mark Anderson. I.e., a great rookie season followed by a total disappearance the rest of his career.
I think the worst case scenario with Mercilus is Alex Brown. A few years of decent production, no headaches on or off the field, but not a career where you ever go wow, that guy is something special.
Now, if you want to argue that we need a lot more than the next Alex Brown out of the 19th overall pick, I'll hear that argument and in fact I'd make it myself. But my gut tells me Mercilus isn't getting quite a fair shake to be categorized with Mark Anderson.
And also remember Mark Anderson was only a 5th round pick so even though he never lived up to the promise of his rookie season, it's not like he was really a bust cause we had so little invested into him to begin with.
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Emery has shown a love for SEC players his past few drafts in KC, to boot...
That's not a bad philosophy to adopt, IMO... and would point toward Brockers if he's available.
Also... and I don't really know why other than my gut... but it wouldn't totally shock my socks off if we took Upshaw. Marinelli would have to do some creative scheming to really maximize his ROI in our scheme, but that kid can flat-out get to the QB if that's what they've really decided is priority 1 in this draft.
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Here are the guys I want see get drafted before our pick - just so we have the opportunity to have as many options as possible for the "7" :
Ryan Tannehill (if he gets by Miami he could slide)
Riley Reiff (he's a RT - doubt he slides)
Luke Kuechly (you never know with MLBs...)
David DeCastro (we will not take a guard in the 1st round)
Stephon Gilmore (he is showing up on quite a few mocks as going to the Bears - I don't know why)
Cordy Glenn (another RT type - may play guard)
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True, we had little invested in Mark Anderson. I am thinking size wise too and physical abilities are similar. Lovie/Marinelli like the small/quick types and not the big burly types. So the comparason to Mark Anderson is valid.
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Gilmore has gotten a late boost in the mocks. He'll be gone I'm quite sure.
DeCastro is the guy I'm thinking may take a surprise slide among that group. Not because he's been overrated till now, but just because it's starting to look like there could be an early run on DBs and he could be one that suffers if that happens. Which, if we're bound and determined not to take him, could open up a nice tradedown opportunity cause if he's knocking on the door of 20, there are some teams who I think would be itching pretty strongly to get him.
Cordy Glenn is a mountain of a man and potentially could succeed at either RT or G but I don't see him going before 19 under any circumstances. I watched some film on him and while he's huge, a solid player and versatile, he's not a special player and that's what you're looking for with a Top 20 pick.
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Well gents, gotta sign off for a few hours and get my draft party preps in order. Will try and get back on sometime tonight after the Bears pick.
REVERSE THE CURSE!
(And here's to catastrophic draft fails by the Vikes, Pack and Lions). ;D
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I dont think you can compare Mercilus to Dontari Poe. Poe was a combine freak who was very underachieving in school. Mercilus had a very good year in school last year.
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I think Tannehill, Reiff, and Kuechly will all be gone before #19...not as convinced on the other 3...
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when I was comparing Mercilus to Poe I was saying the only good player on a bad DL.
If 3 of your 4 DL suck then they can scheme heavily against the lone playmaker.
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Thats like they are doing to Peppers now
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Report: Claiborne is No. 1 player on Vikings draft board
Posted by Evan Silva on April 26, 2012, 4:09 PM EDT
Getty Images
Citing a source with knowledge of the situation, NFL Network’s Steve Wyche reports that LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne is the No. 1 player on the Vikings’ draft board, and they are “leaning toward” drafting Claiborne with the No. 3 overall pick.
Per Wyche, the Vikings also “like [Claiborne] more” than USC tackle Matt Kalil.
Appearing on ESPN’s NFL Draft Special Thursday, Adam Schefter seemed to agree with the notion that Claiborne is the favorite to be drafted with the third overall pick.
“There seems to be a feeling that they might be leaning toward Morris Claiborne while still considering Matt Kalil,” Schefter said.
The Vikings’ priority remains trading down, but if they stick to their draft board, Claiborne will be the third pick in the draft and a mini-slide could be in order for this year’s top-rated offensive tackle.
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Every player taken instead of the O-line in picks 1-18 helps the Bears.
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I suppose that would be true if your goal was to draft an OLineman. IMHO that hurts the Bears if you assume the Bears want a DE. The more OLineman go in the top 18 means there are more defensive players available at #19
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Damn it! The Browns are morons! They just gave the Vikings 3 picks to move up one damn spot! For a guy the Vikings would never in a million years take.
Obviously someone else was trying to trade up but come on. You have the number four pick in the draft someone great will be there!!!
If I was a Brown fan I would be pissed!
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They wanted Richardson bad and clearly somebody else was in the mix and they didn't want to lose him. Depends on what picks they gave up.
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Browns trade up to the No. 3 overall pick
Posted by Evan Silva on April 26, 2012, 7:09 PM EDT
AP
It was never a secret that the Minnesota Vikings wanted to trade out of the No. 3 pick in the draft. And they executed just under an hour before Thursday night’s start of round one.
ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that the Vikings and Browns have swapped the Nos. 3 and 4 overall picks. Per Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Browns gave up selections in the fourth, fifth, and seventh rounds to pull off the trade. Minnesota only moved down one spot.
The Browns are expected to draft Alabama running back Trent Richardson at No. 4. Per FOX Sports’ Jay Glazer, the Vikings hope to continue trading down the board, and they can still get LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne or USC tackle Matt Kalil if they stay put.
Cleveland made this move, apparently, in an attempt to prevent against the Buccaneers from jumping into the third overall spot. Tampa Bay, sitting at No. 5, was known to be interested in leapfrogging Cleveland to get into the No. 3 hole.
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I heard the Bucs were trying to move up and also the Jets for Richardson.
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WOW..just saw what Cleveland gave up. Pretty steep price. Not exactly Ditka giving up his entire draft for Ricky Williams but still quite a bit.
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To move up one spot when the Queens weren't thinking RB...THAT...is about as stupid a move as I've seen lately...gave up three picks? TARDED!!
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IMO- that's astoundingly stupid. The Jer must have found a new job.
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Plus the Browns pick so high that 4th and 5th are almost a 3rd and 4th.
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This draft coverage is going to be really hard to watch. That rap promo and Jon Gruden and Chris Berman may just be more than I can handle.
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sound down, sound down young man. I am.
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sound down, sound down young man. I am.
ahhhhhh......much better
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http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Brandon-Meriweather-Washington-Redskins-Pro-Bowl-safety-arrested-on-DUI-charge-042612
sure glad this guy's no longer a Bear
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I watch the NFLN. I like Mayock and none of the other guys are very annoying.
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Well except Irvin. I hate that guy. But I just tone out his dumb ass voice.
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unfortunately my useless cable company doesnt have NFL Network.
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Like these picks so far....no need players for Bears gone yet!
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Nope. That kid from Ala is one hell of a rb, but he's been in the south all his life. Like mario in Buffalo. The shock of the hawk coming off the lake will take some adjusting, trust me. 50 deg. is freezing for these guys.
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Kalil to Queens...
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my god he's massive. shopped at the big and tall for that suit for sure.
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first five fairly predictable- and all offense.
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Blackmon to Jax....
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Two DB's in a row....DB run maybe? let's hope so....
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Tannehill to the fins...nice
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CB run! ...Bears might get lucky and have their pick at LT or DE.....might....or even WR
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nah. All picked right in front of the bears. Over the next 6 picks.
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Floyd to the cards per espn. I thought that might happen
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Come on Emery earn your money!
Right now the best thing may be to just sit and do nothing and take what falls though.
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There goes Floyd. Can Reif fall to us?
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Floyd gone...that sucks....
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lotsa juicy ones out there yet for the Bear. you're right, sit tight. RTC
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I think Tannehill and Poe are going to be busts.
My two best football friends are Dolphin and Cheifs fans...haha.
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poe=Gohldstein tannehill= (wait for it) Leaf.
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Yeah Poe is a bust for sure. He did nothing in college and now he is going to be stud? Please!
Tannheill will be average at best.
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Run on DT's.
Hope the DE we want falls to us.
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Brockers. Ouch. Damn Jeff Fisher! Damn him!
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Looking very likely that either Reif or Decastro will be there.
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There goes Coples. Bears are going to have a very nice selection to choose from of either DE's or OL.
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Anyone else notice the hat choice. I am guessing the guys who wear their hats correctly will have a lower bust factor then those that wear them gang style. Just a hunch...
Kalil was the only guy to totally "fix" his hat correctly. I wish he was a Bear.
Just a theory. :)
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Coples and Brockers are gone but the Bears will get their man I believe
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Kirkpatric goes to the Bungholes
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SD next then the Bears
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Lots of good players left at positions of need!
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hmmmm. Bears setting up nicely. Ala db to cincy. btw, that killer Baylor wr is still out there. Bears drafted a hof out of Baylor years ago. Did ok.
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Jones, Ingram, Reiff all still out there, assuming DeCastro goes to SD...
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Reif and DeCastro still there
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Mercilus and Perry still there too
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As well as Upshaw...
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OMG!
Bears got their pick of O-line right here!
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Ingram. huh. Here we go. Bear up. Do us proud!
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Yep, might as well grab one too...I wanted Ingram of the DEs on the board...
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Ingram in a surprise. I expected Reif or DeCastro. . Looks like Mercilus or Perry
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Maybe a trade down?
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Hoping for Reiff or DeCastro here...
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Me too! I will be happy with either.
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bet we are trying to trade down.
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I like how they do not show the pick until commercials are over.
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Nah says pick is in. They just are not announcing it until the commercials are over.
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Shea McClellin
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What?
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Huh?
Hope the guy is a stud.
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Ugh. McClellin
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not happy with that...would have preferred Reif
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I don't get this pick. He was projected to fo at the end of the first and he does not fit our scheme. Plkus we need O-line help and the #2 and #3 guys were on the board!
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260#? What?
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I was hoping for better than that
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Hell I would have preferred Decastro.
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That was a Packer pick there
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I think the bear bandwagon just blew a turbocharger. WTF?
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He was projected to go to the Patriots. I am beginning to think out new GM thinks like New England too much. Hey Emery we don't run a 3-4 defense!
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LOL
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Watch the Packers go after harrison Smith now
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Seriously Emery? **** small school backwoods hick.
Disaster. Total fail. He's a 3-4 OLB. WTF is Emery thinking?
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Shea McClellin, OLB, Boise State
Scouts Inc. pros: Makes a quick diagnosis and reacts to the ball in a timely manner. Chases all over the field and saw multiple 'hustle plays' on tape. Gets through traffic well. A strong and firm tackler. Latches on with strong hands and does a nice job of wrapping up upon contact to get ball carriers off of their feet. First step quickness is adequate but does a great job of anticipating snap count which can allow him to gain the edge as a pass rusher.
Scouts Inc. cons: Lacks an elite anchor and can occasionally be engulfed by bigger blockers when caught in phone booth. Can do better job of absorbing and giving some ground in order to make life easier when shedding blocks. Displays a little bit of tightness that can make him vulnerable in one-on-one open field situations against quicker and more elusive runners.
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Don't like the pick and from the sound of the guys on NFL Network, they seemed shocked as well. They could have done better....Emery.....hmm.....something in the Koolaid at Halas maybe?
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NOT a good start by Emery AT all....read on if you dare...
Overview
McClellin has started three consecutive years at defensive end for Boise State. He is an undersized DE who 3-4 teams will value at the OLB position. At just under 260 pounds, he can struggle at times against bigger linemen, but he has fifth-round value.
Analysis
Strengths
McClellin is a strong player inside for the Broncos who uses good leverage to get under heavier offensive linemen and jolt them back in their stance. He is aggressive, stout, and can hold off linemen and smother tight ends at the point of attack. He has no problem tackling and is a good pass rusher.
Weaknesses
McClellin will have a tough time convincing teams, even though he has been productive, to take a shot on him early in the draft because of his size. He has displayed enough athletic ability for teams to consider him at outside backer, but he could stand to lose weight as he enters the next level.
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Jared Allen is a backwoods hick, who weighs 10lbs more than the kid we just draft. I will wait to pass judgement until after a few games. I haven't seen this kid play a single game. I hope he is all that.
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The only team that f*ked up their 1st round more is Seattle. Congrats Emery.
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I hope he is as well. Can he have a Mark Anderson Rookie year opposite Peppers? Maybe?
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my first thought was "who is McClellin?"
I told 19yo son good night and he says "who is McClellin?"
One of the commentators speculated he could play SAM for us and play DE on nickle downs.
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Interesting flashback (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70853&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB)...
04/23/12 - Bears general manager Phil Emery acknowledged several ends near the top of the board are versatile players that could fit multiple defenses. “There’s a good number of them at the top that you could look at those players and say they could fit a 3-4 or they could fit a 4-3,” Emery said Monday at his pre-draft press conference. “Having just come from Kansas City where they’re one of the last true 3-4 heads-up, plays square, outside linebackers are the drops and rush guys, I had already looked at those players for a 3-4 scheme as outside linebackers and coming here now I’m looking at them as D-ends and right D-ends, base ends. There are a good number of the high end guys that can go both ways. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder because ultimately each individual team has got to decide which is right for them. You’ll find where the guys that are outside linebacker candidates, you have to make a decision for a 4-3 and whether that’s a true right D-end athlete or he’s a base left D-end." McClellin had 16½ sacks over the last two seasons at Boise State. He was a first team All-Mountain West Conference selection for the Broncos, who have had six players drafted over the last three seasons. Interestingly, the Minnesota Vikingscoaching staff used McClellin primarily at strong-side linebacker during the Senior Bowl week. They obviously use the same defense as the Bears. McClellin weighed in at 257 pounds last month at his pro day, and played a little heavier during the season. “I kind of try to steer away from what other people are saying because it’s only one person’s opinion,” McClellin told the Idaho Statesman about the pre-draft hype. “I’m not expecting myself to get picked in the first round. - Brad Biggs, The Chicago Tribune
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Yeah I am guessing he replaces Roach on rushing downs and rushes the passer in third and long situations. He is a good football player just thought we could fill a hole better. We shall see.
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Think the Bears are thinking Clay Matthews II....has to be....doesn't make a lick of sense elsewise....
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What a wierd 1st round
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Over at the trib site they are saying the rumor from NFL.com is that we picked him for somebody else and a trade is going to be announced. Can't find anything mentioned about that on NFL.com though.
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Don't the bears already have a Brian Urlacher type lb? Isn't his name Brian Urlacher? All this hype and anticipation of a new dawn, and we fans get.....this? 260 ? really? btw lions just picked Reiff. Do the bears have the new Matt Millen? My God!
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Reif just went to the Lions. Damn!
Keys if that is the case it was the Patriots who are mocing all over the place with trades. Guessing we got screwed.
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Watched a vid on the kid...Ingram who went a step before him is light years better, just in the video! We keep this kid.....oh boy...Emery's gonna hear it!
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That's odd. ok if true, but odd.
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So we spent a top 20 pick on a spot player with no true position. Brilliant.
Woulda been better off with Reiff or DeCastro, seriously.
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Trace Armstrong revisited.
I would have taken Decastro
We shall see
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Put me down as decidely DON'T like it.....much better players still available. Wasted a 19 spot......
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Decastro or Reif either one would have been my pick.
Total WTF pick imo.
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nfldraftscout.com (whatever that is) listed him as a mid-to-late First-round pick and says "Possessing the athleticism, technique and work ethic necessary to be successful in any scheme, McClellin is quietly among the safer prospects in the 2012 draft."
- Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com
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I miss Brockers the most out of those already gone.
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Shasson... I like the username...
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I am sure he will be a good football player for the Bears. I am just not sure he will be the stud you are looking for with your first pick.
Perhaps Emery has already decided Lovie is a goner and he will be changing to a 3-4 defense next year. Then it all makes sense.
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Now we move onto round 2 tomorrow. We have to wait 18 picks into the round tomorrow. I hope we get a better pick tomorrow
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Some how I feel like that was our second round pick...
Guess not.
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Thanks GB34. You have my favorite number in your user name.
Anyhow, saw McClellin in a few different mock drafts going to the Bears at 19. And Emery sort of telegraphed this. Not sure what all the freak out is about. a fast, athletic, durable, productive, smart, versitile guy seems like decent value at 19.
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Bah. The universe sucks dirty canal water for all Bear fans. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. I'm getting drunk. I don't care if its Thursday.
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Agreed...on 34 Best there ever will be.
Now go grab Stephen Hill in round 2 and calm the natives...
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McClellin isnt a true DE. Could be some sort of hybrid but not a true DE
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C'mon 46. You have to work tomorrow. You should have already been drunk working your way back to sober by now. You're old enough to know better
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I will hold judgement. If this guy is a Jared Allen type DE opposite Peppers our D will rock.
Apparently he was the highest rated guy out of the 7 Emery was targeting. We knew there was a big chance he would go DE and if this is the guy he thinks was the best available then we wait and see if he was correct. Plus Emery calls him a four down player.
We will just have to wait and see. Hope he is a stud pass rusher cause we need one.
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To hell with it. It' s just a quick 90mph run on 840 to Almaville rd and in. Legends on the way out. You know where it is Grizz.
btw, you guys settled in ok? It really is a nice part of the world.
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The Pats and the Puke wanted him. Time will tell.
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Doin great! And yah, my son got a ticket doin 88 on 840 last year, no one on the road on a saturday but him and the Highway patrol. $275 later. ouch...
We need to meet, I have never been to Legends but get thirsty. We're off of Sam Ridley so an easy drive. We can raise a Guiness pint to the tough Irish farm boy name McCellan, and watch the beloved
Where do you live? I know, take it to the sidelines... ;D
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Surprised, to say the least. We had heard a rumor a while back that somebody had him going to the Bears but we discounted it because of all the other DEs that would be available.
I'm sure there are snickers all over the league with that pick, but I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt before I label him the next Dan Bauzin.
The only question I had was - Couldn't we get the guy with a trade down?
As for his size 6-3 260...that's exactly Alex Brown's size...and this guy's faster.
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Im wondering where he fits in with a 4-3 defense.
At 260 lbs. he's kinda light to be taking on a LT or RT.
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Ok ,that 49ers pick was weird.
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Griz- we're in Spring Hill, we do need to say hello. In the fall a bunch used to be at the Embassy in Franklin, good atmosphere, nice crowd, I'm still debating on that or the ticket again. Legends is fine, quiet, ok prices. You thinking of the game against the Titans?
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Every team in our division kicked our ass tonig&t.o
Grade: F
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Come on. If the guy gets 10 sacks this year will you still feel the same?
Lets wait and see.
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http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=37585
After reading this I feel a little bit better
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http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=2975&play_clip=Y&rn=15
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I think he may be Brian Urlachers replacement.
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So the Bears picked a tweener, that had 7 sacks his senior year in the Mountain West. Sweet.
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I know. Way too small guy w mediocre production in 2nd tier conference. This guy will be out of the league in 3 yrs tops.
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I still say McClellin is a wierd pick
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GBN had McClellin being taken at 18 by San Diego.
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Hold on a minute...too small? I think most of us would have been OK with a pick of Whitney Mercilus, right.
McClellin is almost exactly the same size. Only McClellin is faster...40 time, shuttle, 3cone.
And he was a 3 year starter.
I'll admit I'm somewhat concerned about the competition level.
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Unless were switching to a 3-4 this pick makes no sense at all.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBo1St4vArc
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Michael Lombardi predicted this:
19 Chicago Bears Shea McClellin
Want a pass rusher. Is it too early to take Bruce Irvin from West Virginia? Get the hottest guy in the draft.
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We wanted a patriot drafting system and we got it. Right after we made this pick the Patriots moved up and grabbed the other DE rated high on their boards.
I am hoping this guy is an awesome pass rusher and they can no longer shift all protection to Peppers side. That is what we all wanted and this may do it if emery got the right guy. Several of you hated Mercilus and this guy has more years of productivity then him. I admit I was at first going WTF but the pick is growing on me. I will take a wait and see approach.
This guy will be a pass rusher on third downs, might compete for strong side LBer and can play special teams. Plus if Lovie gets bounced next year we have a stud 3-4 LBer to buld around.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft
Not sure who writes this for yahoo but he really likes our pick and really dislikes Mercilus
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Boise State's first-round prospect Shea McClellin has proven himself as versatile (http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/04/26/2092362/rushing-the-nfl.html#storylink=cpy)
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Singletary raved about him when coaching him at the seniors bowl
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/04/26/2092362/rushing-the-nfl.html#storylink=cpy
IMO he'll make a great LB not a DE.
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I have to admit that my first reaction was WTF but the more I hear about him the more comfortable I get. Gotta trust that Emery knows what he's doing. KC had some nice drafts while he was there.
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Big ****ing deal Singletary liked him. Look at his record as a HC. Fail.
Can't wait till we take the Montana CB in the 2nd.
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Emery sez he will play DE.
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http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=2976&play_clip=Y&rn=13
Emery gives a good explanation of why he chose him.
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Hey Duck,
Any hint of what Emery is going to do with the second pick?
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Seriously we could have gotten McLellan in the 2nd. Nothing special.
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The good thing is he's a blue level special team player!
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No way he makes it to the second round. In fact the Patriots traded up to take a DE because we took their guy.
JJ, I have no clue what this guy is going to do. I am guessing no one else does either except maybe the Patriots who are pissed he is doing what they want to do but a step ahead of them.
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If the Bears played a 3-4 D this would be a decent pick, just like we should trust the scout that thought Rex Grossman could play QB in the NFL..........
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He is going to be in the DE rotation. If he is getting pressure when he is then he was a good pick. Good character , high motor guys who have pass rush skills and no injury history get drafted high. Hopefully he lives up to the pick.
We shall see. Looking forward to see who we get tomorrow. Emery has a plan. I hope it is the correct one but he certainly has a plan and is executing it the way he wants.
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I really don't get the over-the-top reactions. The NFL invited him to NYC -- so clearly he was a first-round grade. Mayock, who dominates the NFL Network coverage, rated him 14th overall.
Again, from that IdahoStatesman article: "McClellin, who was far off most pundits’ radar three months ago, is now projected as a first-round pick. He appears in the first round of 25 of the 30 mock drafts compiled for the Idaho Statesman’s NFL Draft blog.
“The funny thing is if you talk with (NFL coaches), they already knew Shea,” said Boise State quarterback Kellen Moore, who has met with many coaches during draft prep events. “Apparently, the TV people figured it out a few months later.”
McClellin is in New York for the draft at the league’s invitation, a sign of his status as a first-round prospect. You can’t avoid his name and picture if you peruse NFL.com’s draft coverage.
The former Marsing High star, who was raised by his grandparents on a farm, would be the third first-round pick in school history (unless tailback Doug Martin beats him to it) — and the first homegrown Bronco.
“The most important thing in this league is finding guys who can get after the quarterback, and he can,” said ESPN draft guru Mel Kiper Jr., who projects the Green Bay Packers to take McClellin at No. 28. “… He played like a first-round pick during his career at Boise, he played like it at the Senior Bowl, and he tested like it (at the NFL Scouting Combine).”
McClellin is rated as high as the No. 14 prospect, by NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock.
Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/04/26/2092362/rushing-the-nfl.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy"
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From Greg Cosell (http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/04/10/cosell-talks-diamonds-in-the-rough/)
* Shea McClellin: He played both with his hand on the ground at DE, and standing up at LB in Boise State’s defense. What I liked immediately was his lateral agility and quickness. He showed the ability to get low and bend the edge as a pass rusher. He also had an instinctive feel as an inside rusher for getting skinny and getting through small cracks. He shed blocks and made plays in the run game. He was a smooth change-of-direction athlete with excellent balance and body control. My sense is he will get better in the NFL with a chance to be a dynamic edge pass rusher. He’s not as purely explosive as Clay Matthews, but I see some similarities as McClellin matures and develops.
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There were people bitching when Brian Urlacher and Tommie Harris were picked.
Hell when Mike Brown was picked people were freaking out!
It is the draft and it is a crap shoot. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. I will try and give Emery the benefit of the doubt until he proves he does not deserve it. Angelo proved he didn't and now he is unemployed.
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Now we end up with a zero sum zero situation because Deeeeeeeetroit took Reiff.
We have an edge rusher ... they have a blocker.
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I think it's funny to see yapper go off the deep end when he's been hyping Emery all year.
Well we'll just have to see how this pick works out. I'm not going to cry yet until we see if he has what it takes to play in the NFL.
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Why do you draft a 3-4 OLB for a team that's as **** 4-3 as it gets? Makes no sense...
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Okay who did you want the Bears to draft? I mean you shown Emery a lot of love this year and now he's a bum in your eyes.
You're not willing to wait to see how the rest of the draft goes along?
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Typical Bears... draft the backwater hick who's just happy to he here and will play whatever position you ask vs a stud like Mercilus who has gotten it done against legitimately big time competition.
Any decent LT will stonewall this guy all game long.
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Can't wait till till the 2nd round when we pick that 5'8 WR out of Western Wyoming Tech who only runs a 4.8 40 but is a heck of a great guy who helps out at the soup kitchen every Wednesday.
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Sounds like Emery just ruined someone's April...
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46 - See me over at the Sidelines...
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I definitely think we grabbed N.E. wanted pick. Funny to see us causing NE to spend some picks to move up and get a DE earlier than they were hoping.
on McClellin:
Asked about Shea McClellin's stock rising just before the draft, Boise State coach Chris Petersen told the Idaho Statesman: "Shea McClellin is a trained assassin on the football field. That guy has been such an unbelievable player for a long time for us and completely and totally underrated, I think, in the public eye. I don't think so much in our opponents' eyes and certainly not in our coaches' eyes. I just think all that's coming to light right now."
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So I guess how this guy is being pitched to Bears fans is, this sort of X factor guy that's gonna be shifted around from play to play and keep offenses guessing. To which I say, cmon man. Marinelli's not smart enough to make something like that work.
Either that or Urlachers recovery is not going as well as expected and Lovies worried about the LB crew.
In any event drafting a guy just to screw the Patriots is terrible strategy especially since they're not even in our conference.
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I don't see this as "just screwing the patriots". From what I've read, the guy is a Mathews type (or hoping he could be that kind of a player). At first I thought "is Angelo still in town". Guess we'll see, hope he turns out, 'cause the draft has been killing us..
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Some people are speculating this guy will move to MLB after Urlacher hangs it up. Which wouod be fine but I hope we don't have to wait that long for him to earn his keep.
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If he's not a one-type of D player and can play 3-4 or 4-3 then its a pick that can last even if Lovie & Co fail and a new HC is regime (and assume new D scheme) is brought in. I'll give Emery the benefit of the doubt until he proves he's Angelo bad or (shudder) Graves/Wanny bad.....
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anyone think it odd we are listing him as LDE? I would think it would better to put him at RDE and move Peppers to LDE.
I know we move them around a good bit so I guess it doesn't matter. I would just think especially on running downs he will be at a disadvantage.
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Every team in our division kicked our ass tonig&t.o
Grade: F
The Bears got their ass kicked by every team in the division because of one round of the draft?
Get off the ledge and let's see what else happens today.
What is that dallasbear says about knee jerk fans???
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Well it was kind of hard with DeCastro and Rieff still on the board, and Mercilus, who I kind of liked. This kid looks short, although he really isnt, and well put together. I like the fact that he was raised on a farm, that is a hard life, he should be a tough kid. Still scratching my head if he is a DE or OLB. Not sure but willing to wait and see. Fingers crossed for tonight.
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I personally thought it would be DeCastro or Mercilus myself but it didn't happen.
Of course I want the Bears to get Stephen Hill but that doesn't look possible. Cutler need weapons and I'm curious to see if this regime will give him some to work with.
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Well, let's see...
The Vikings and Lions got the two best OTs in the draft, and the Packers got a DE/OLB who I personally didn't care for (Perry) but is still good enough to cause problems opposite Matthews and especially against our OTs
I'd say we're definitely behind the curve division-wise going into Round 2.
I'm hoping we can get a big, pocket-crushing DT tonight cause we're gonna need it.
The one thing I can say in McLellin's defense is, his intangibles are off the charts and his character is spotless. So if he busts it will be because of injuries or not being able to adapt to NFL caliber competition -- not off-the-field silliness. He's a guy the McCaskeys will love cause he's down-home and old-school all the way. In those respects I've seen a couple people compare him to Jared Allen and I guess we can only hope he's that good of a player.
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I personally thought it would be DeCastro or Mercilus myself but it didn't happen.
Of course I want the Bears to get Stephen Hill but that doesn't look possible. Cutler need weapons and I'm curious to see if this regime will give him some to work with.
I never thought the Bears would go with DeCastro but I really thought that I would hear Mercilus' name announced. The thing I was thankful for was when the Vikings passed on Stephen Hill at the end of the first round. And unless another team trades up the Bears have the earliest pick in round 2 in the NFC North (Vikings traded theirs to move up late in round 1).
Trade up and get Stephen Hill!
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There's 6 more rounds to go man. Be positive for a change! I thought you liked Emery!!!
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After last night I really have no idea what Emery considers this team's needs to be but I'll take a swing at predicting how the rest of it plays out:
2nd - Big DT with pass rush skills; possibly Worthy from Mich State if he's still there or maybe Devon Still.
3rd - Here's where I finally see us getting some OL help. Probably an OT who's good enough to back up Carimi right away and has the potential to grow into a LT. Emery made it clear last night that he does not value O-Lineman at the same level a lot of us (if he did, he would have taken Reiff or DeCastro), do so if we do pick up some OL help I think it won't be any higher than here. And it wouldn't surprise me if it's a big-bodied kid hardly anyone has heard of, from a smaller school.
4th - WR or DB
5th - DB or WR (whichever we don't take in the 4th)
6th - BPA
7th - BPA
Yeah I've been a big Emery supporter but last night I was really questioning. I give him an A+ for everything he did up to last night, and a C-minus for our draft so far, so he's got a B average going right now. Hopefully I'll feel better about things after we grab a couple more players tonight.
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Did someone say injuries?
Boise State projected him to defensive end and grayshirted him so that he could gain weight before joining the team in January 2008. He played immediately that fall and was becoming a significant factor when he injured a knee at Idaho.
A story began circulating that he had suffered three concussions at Boise State.
McClellin says that’s not true. He suffered one significant concussion in 2010 at Wyoming and one mild concussion in 2009. He changed helmets after the 2010 injury and never had any more problems.
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The concussion thing bothers me. He's going to be getting knocked around like a pinball at LDE and another concussion in that scenario is very likely. Which would make at least two on his record and after that how many more can he take?
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My first thought was use him like Rosie Colvin. But another LB we dont really need right now.
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Unless Emery plans to trade Briggs tonight...
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Scouting Report on McLellin:
Strengths:
• Adequate height, bulk, hand size but short arms
• Good speed and quickness with burst off the snap
• A varied repertoire of pass rush moves / counters
• Athletic with nice balance, body control and agility
• Not a big hitter but gets the job done as a tackler
• Plays with good technique, leverage and hand use
• Intelligent with excellent instincts and awareness
• Tough, intense and competitive w/ non-stop motor
• Will offer both positional and schematic versatility
• Is mature and hard working with a desire to excel
• Productive and durable with a bunch of experience
Weaknesses:
• Average strength and is not particularly powerful
• Not real stout at point of attack versus run game
• Ability to play in space and coverage an unknown
• Some trouble taking on / disengaging from blocks
• Did not consistently face high-level of competition
Injury History:
• Missed three contests with a knee injury in 2008
• Missed one game with hamstring ailment in 2010
Notes:Was a three-year starter for the Broncos --- Named 1st Team All-WAC in 2010 and 2011 --- Grayshirted in 2007 --- Honored as team’s Most Outstanding Defensive Lineman in 2010 and Most Valuable Defensive Player in 2011 --- Could project to either defensive end in a 4-3 or outside linebacker in a 3-4 at next level --- Classic 'tweener and isn't flashy but possesses the talent and top intangibles to start in the NFL.
NFL Player Comparison: Brooks Reed[/i]
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The 46 having been a fan forever of this team has no patience any more. I'm a windsock when it comes to likes and dislikes, and freely admit it. I didn't like the pick and the dislike carries over to the guy who made it. I'm sick of seeing Cutler run for his life or getting his ass canned. Two really good ol out there and we got this guy. Fine. don't like it though.
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It appears McClellin can rush the passer in 2 and 3 points stances. Which means not only can you line him up at DE you can line him up as a blitzing LB - and how many LBs do we have that are any good at getting to the QB?
Additionally, McClellin played some sort of rover position early in his career where he dropped back into coverage - so if you played him some at LB you wouldn't have to just blitz him.
Even though his coach raved about this kid's mental capacity to handle numerous positions Bears may want to have him concentrate on DE...maybe just RDE or LDE early in his career.
As for the size concerns - he's as big or bigger than most of the DEs taken in the first round and faster then every one of them.
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I think that as much as anything last night, Emery was making a statement in terms of what kind of players will be drafted on his watch. Which is, hard working, self-motivated leader types with a team mindset, a track record of production and clean records both with regard to medical history and character.
Which means last night is not the last time we're going to see the Bears passing on bigger-name "flash" guys, even guys with game-changing physical talent. I would bet money (if I had any to bet) that guys like Mike Adams and Janoris Jenkins aren't even on Emery's board. I would also venture they have ruled out Stephen Hill, not because of character issues but because the college production just hasn't been there.
Now obviously Brandon Marshall goes against type but as I've said before, that was a very unique situation and opportunity that Emery wisely (IMO) chose to grab on to. But I really don't see him taking gam-bles like that very often and especially when premium draft choices are at stake.
Get used to high-floor "character" guys cause that's the direction Emery is going with this roster.
Back specifically to Dallas' comments... to the extent the drafting of McLellin indicates a move by Lovie and Marinelli towards mixing up the defenses more, you have to consider that a positive. We all know that the base Tampa 2 is passe and has been figured out by every OC in the league. If a utility guy like McLellin allows us to throw some radical new wrinkles in our D and it succeeds in stymying the Rogers, Breeses and Staffords of the league then that's a big plus. I'm just not sure Lovie and Marinelli have the creativity or the flexibility to do that.
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The 46 having been a fan forever of this team has no patience any more. I'm a windsock when it comes to likes and dislikes, and freely admit it. I didn't like the pick and the dislike carries over to the guy who made it. I'm sick of seeing Cutler run for his life or getting his ass canned. Two really good ol out there and we got this guy. Fine. don't like it though.
I can't say anybody here is ecstatic about the pick - but there are no guarantees that the DEs picked after or before McClellin will be any better. DE is such a position with a huge bust potential. But if you can find the right reward its huge.
DeCastro would have been a solid pick- but the Bears are hoping with all the guards on the roster they can find a couple. As for Reiff, I read that he was strictly a RT. We already have a couple of those.
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McLellin will wear #99. As did Dan Hampton. As did also, Gaines Adams.
Just sayin.
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And I sayin after watching film, he ain't dan hampton. Gaines, maybe.
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McClellin seems more like Roach's replacement. The thing I like is we can always move Izzy inside and start McClellin at LDE or we can have McClellin line up behind Peppers. They cant block everybody. And the kid can also cover the TE, something we havent always had
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What I'm struggling with a little is, there's a guy whose game is very much like McLellin's but who is a better pass rusher, is much stronger and played against better competition. His name is Courtney Upshaw from Alabama, 6'1 270 who I had pegged as a dark horse candidate for the Bears and was available at 19.
Upshaw may not quite have the cover skills or straight-line speed of McLellin, but in every other respect as a DE/OLB tweener he was the superior pick, IMO.
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FWIW, Bucky Brooks on NFL.com has us taking Janoris Jenkins tonight in the 2nd.
Now that's a pick people would really be justified in ripping apart, for pretty much any reason you want to name. But Jenkins is so totally opposite the type of player that Emery took last night that I really don't see it happening.
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I think the only superior thing about Upshaw was the level of competition, not measurables
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FWIW, Bucky Brooks on NFL.com has us taking Janoris Jenkins tonight in the 2nd.
Now that's a pick people would really be justified in ripping apart, for pretty much any reason you want to name. But Jenkins is so totally opposite the type of player that Emery took last night that I really don't see it happening.
I think that would be a greater shock
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I'm getting more comfortable with last nights pick. I really thought we should go with Reiff but everything I've read says he is projected as RT only so he wouldn't help. Sure, DeCastro would be an upgrade but we really don't need guards. I read a number of sources that called Mercilus overrated with big bust potential. I guess after seeing Angelo go after so many questionable players trying to catch lightning in a bottle that turned out to be busts I can accept a safe pick which is what most of the writers are calling McLellen. I like what Emery has done this offseason so I'll give him some leeway here. Would like to see a OL and WR tonight though.
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So who do we hope for that slipped out of the first round in the second. Fleener, Glenn, J Martin, Hill, Jeffery, even Konz slid.
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The thing I saw in that clip someone posted from Youtube is he plays much like Urlacher, in fact looked like he could be his twin minus rushing from the edge. His ability to get to the ball quickly and wrap up and get his man down fast is about the same as Urlachers. He is a hybrid between Matthews and Urlacher but rushing from the edge. I'll give the kid a chance....let's see what he can do....
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The thing I read that made me think he could be better than Urlacher is his abiltiy to shed blocks. Something Urlacher doesnt always do so well.
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So who do we hope for that slipped out of the first round in the second. Fleener, Glenn, J Martin, Hill, Jeffery, even Konz slid.
I cant speak for anybody else but Martin would be nice although I doubt it. A big DT would also be nice. So would a tall productive WR, maybe Sanu. I dont see Hill or Jeffery being Bear types.
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Upshaw may not quite have the cover skills or straight-line speed of McLellin, but in every other respect as a DE/OLB tweener he was the superior pick, IMO.
He was? Then why wasn't he picked in the first round?
Everything I read about Upshaw says strong 3-4 OLB run stopper with limited pass rushing/agility/speed.
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Ok, we got the 18th pick tonight. All the first round drop outs will be gone early (Martin, Upshaw, Fleener, Hill, Cordy) - what players do you see us targeting that play OT, WR, and DT?
Here's my list - we should be able to get one of these guys - I'm thinking DT or WR:
Hill, Stephen WR 6'4" 215 Georgia Tech 86.0
Randle, Rueben WR 6'4" 210 LSU 86.0
Jeffery, Alshon WR 6'4" 230 South Carolina 84.0
Quick, Brian WR 6'3" 220 Appalachian St. 83.
Glenn, Cordy T 6'5" 345 Georgia 88.0
Martin, Jonathan T 6'5" 312 Stanford 87.0
Adams, Mike T 6'7" 323 Ohio St. 86.0
Massie, Bobb y T 6'6" 316 Mississippi 85.0
Silatolu, Amin i T 6'4" 311 Midwestern St. 83.7
Osemele, Kelechi T 6'5" 333 Iowa St. 83.0
Sanders, Zebrie T 6'5" 320 Florida St. 82.7
Allen, Jeff T 6'4" 307 Illinois 82.5
Thompson, Brandon DT 6'2" 314 Clemson 84.5
Worthy, Jerel DT 6'2" 308 Michigan St. 84.5
Still, Devon DT 6'5" 303 Penn St. 84.2
Reyes, Kendall DT 6'4" 299 Connecticut 84.0
Winn, Billy DT 6'4" 294 Boise St. 84.0
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I think Hill will be long gone before the 18th pick in the second.
IF Mike Adams is there at #18 I'd snatch him.
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If Kendall Reyes is still there I bet he is the pick.
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What about any worthy CBs?
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we are thin at DT, I think we are also thin at OT as well.
We have a lot of holes, we can go BPA at WR, DT, OL, DB.
It also wouldn't surprise me if we go DT or WR at 2 and go C/G in rnd 3-4, and try Chris Williams again at LT.
Ideally Williams and Carimi are our OT with Webb as the swing but that is only if we can upgrade our interior guys.
We just need to go BPA and plug them in.
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I'm not the only one bitching.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0427-dan-mcneil-bears-chicago--20120427,0,390497.column
What is it? The glare of the obvious need blinding the people making picks? The OL now is that good? I don't think so.
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The Bears brought in this OT kid from Oklahoma to work out Stephenson, but I think he is 4th round material. I dont see Adams being even on the Bears board tonight because of the pot issues.I see the two biggest needs are DT and WR which I would guess they try to address tonight. I'd be kinda shocked if Massie or Werthy were still on the board come the 18th pick. I hear Allen from Illinois is high on the Bears board
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PFT second round mock has us taking Massie:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/27/2012-second-round-mock-draft/#comments
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Lol. Yeh right. Did you see how accurate they were with the 1st round? I just dont see Lovie settling for just the first pick. I am probably wrong but I see DT in round #2, maybe WR but certainly not OT, but I wouldnt mind Massie. He has big long arms and a lot of girth. I would hope the Bears grab him if he is there at #50.
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Massie or Jeffrey will be fine with me...
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Massie would work for me. He definitely looks the part and for all we know he might be as good as Webb already, having worked against the best D-Linemen the SEC has to offer.
However, we remain paper thin at DT and to really get our DL working as it should we need a DT with some size who can also rush the passer. There's not a lot of those guys out there so if push came to shove I would say we prioritize DT in the 2nd and then go OL in the 3rd. Reyes could definitely be the guy as he's another relatively well-regarded prospect who has largely flown under the radar because he didn't play for a high-profile football factory (UConn).
If Konz fell to us I think he'd also get a long look. Emery indicated with his pick last night that he's not afraid to draft for future years so even though we don't need a C this year doesn't mean he would pass on one if he thinks the value is there. Konz had a bad leg injury this year though so that could put Emery off.
I'm not feeling a WR till the 3rd round or maybe even later than that.
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You could say Massie would be a pick for the future also. Of course the way Webb ended last season, Massie could be a pick for right now. ;)
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Capsule on Reyes:
6'4 | 299 | 4.98
Strengths:
• Large frame with adequate bulk and overall length
• Great athleticism with terrific speed and quickness
• Flies off the snap and can shoot gaps / penetrate
• Able to anchor at point of attack against the run
• Above average strength and surprisingly powerful
• Active with great motor and nice range in pursuit
• Will get hands up and disrupt the passing lanes
• Offers both positional and schematic versatility
• Intelligent, hard working and a respected leader
• Tough and durable with lots of quality experience
Weaknesses:
• Pad level gets high at times which affects leverage
• Must develop additional pass rush moves / counters
• Instincts and overall awareness are questionable
• Struggles when asked to take on multiple blockers
• Was not as productive as you would have preferred
Injury History:
• Missed two games with an ankle injury in 2008
Notes:
Was a four-year starter and a team captain for the Huskies --- Named 1st Team All-Big East in 2010 and 2011 --- Played both inside and outside at UConn and could project to either defensive tackle in a 4-3 (three-technique) or defensive end in a 3-4 (five-technique) at next level --- Underrated prospect with a well-rounded game / skill set who possesses both the physical tools and intangibles to start in the NFL.
NFL Player Comparison: Shaun Cody
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Rats. You guys drafted the guy I thought sure would go to GB, Shea McLellin.
Maybe Nick Perry can do the job.
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Watching draft...did we just take Alshon Jeffries....read blog on ESPN saying that...wondering if the TV is behind. Funny if true...took out suspense. Glad to see us trade up...wonder what we gave up.
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Yeap, knew who we were picking 5 minutes before it was announced in 2nd round.
Jefferies is interesting...hope we can motivate him.
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I did the exact same thing, timing and all. What did the Bears give up? Nice pick IMO.
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gave up a 5th to move up for him. I like it. The dropoff in his stats last year was because of all their QB turmoil at SC.
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Love the pick!
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Man, I just turned on the TV to see the Bears pick Jeffery. Yapper will be thrilled. He has like Jeffery for months now
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I like the pick a lot better than the 1st rounder, assuming he can stay away from the buffett table.
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I think Yapper is still on the ledge from the McCellan pick... Come back in Yaps
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Alshon Jeffery = 1999 MRob
hopefully.
Nice to see the midget WR philosophy out the window.
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Offense is looking great. All we need is a OT next and we will be set.
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Amen to that.
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My guess is that the Bears had Hill and Jefferies on the radar and when Hill went, they reacted, much like NE in the first round when we swiped McClellan.
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Someone please help. I know it had to have happened, but before tonight, when was the last time the Bears moved up to get someone? I can't remember. age.
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Marshall and Jeffries will be very difficult on defenses.
The Bears have to think the kid is smart enough they can get through to him to control his weight and be a very good receiver.
Looks like there will be a decent player available in reound 3 yet.
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Bears traded up last season to draft Paea last year, trading their 5th to move upo 9 spots. Do I remember it? No. I jhust read it on the Bears website... ;D
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Just last year. I'll be damned. right over the 46's head. Back on the shop floor for awhile.
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wow, Lions take WR coming off an ACL when they badly need linemen and good ones are available.
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Well Jefferies is going to be a real stud, or a total dud. I just dont see anything in between. Hopefully he understands and gets it together.
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What can we offer here to move up and get Massie???
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Loving this offseason . . . . Bears suddenly loaded with potential playmakers.
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If we could get Massie, he sounds like a good fit.
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2011
Hayward put together one of the finest seasons ever by a Commodore defensive back en route to becoming the first Vanderbilt All-America in four years... Recognized as second team All-America by the Walter Camp Foundation, Rivals.com and Yahoo! Sports... Earned second team All-SEC honors by coaches and writers... 15 career interceptions tied Leonard Coleman (1980-83) for most in team history... Hayward's career interception is most among active SEC players... Also concluded career with 46 defensed passes, 148 solo tackles and 198 total tackles... As senior, started all 13 games at cornerback, making 62 total tackles... Posted seven picks, third highest single-season total ever by Commodore... Made 26 tackles over the final four games of the year... Topped team with 10 pass break ups, including a career-best six against Arkansas... Finished career with pair of interceptions and eight tackles vs. Cincinnati in AutoZone Liberty Bowl... Hayward's interception return for a TD against UConn tied the game in the fourth quarter and helped set the stage for the Dores' comeback win... Also posted two interceptions at South Carolina... Has seen action on offense carrying the ball five times for 60 yards... Also Tabbed as midseason All-American by SI.com and CBSSports.com.
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I think the Seahawks just drafted Doug Flutie!
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Massie still available....
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back in the office. not picked yet, good.
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I just wonder why so many other teams have picked OT but passed on Massie...
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well, he's there if the Bears want him.
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WTF...we're back to the injured guys again?
Branden Harden S....out all last year with a shoulder injury
http://www.osubeavers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hardin_brandon00.html
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uh.....uh.......I'm back out counting parts. Maybie I'll find an OL the Bears will draft, for Gods sake.
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Seriously...we just took a S who was out all last year with injury??? So much for Emery not wanting injured players. I am stunned.
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Smoke screen!!!!!
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Seems like a reach for me when we have bigger needs. I guess they really do think our OL will be ok.
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Harding is a complete WTF pick. We have zero depth at DT, A solid OT in our laps w Massie and we take a guy that didnt even play last year?
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stunned, just stunned. 46, if you have something to drink at work, now would be the time, for sure.
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I am a little ticked now. There were guys the Bears supposedly liked the just went in front of them. They liked Trumaine Johnson the CB/S from Montana who went 4 picks in front of them, then the OG, Brandon Brooks from Miami of Ohio went to the Texans 3 picks in front of them and now this WTF pick of an injured safety. And Massie is still on the board. Stephenson the OT from Oklahoma that they brought in to work out went to the Chiefs just in front of them too. Depressing to say the least
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I'm trying hard to give Emery the benefit of the doubt but this one is a real head scratcher. With Massie being passed over by others besides the Bears I have to wonder.
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The Emery band wagon is going to have a bunch of open spaces on it. Unless these guys all pan out, it will be Angelo part two.
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Yup. These top 3 picks all come with a hell of a lot more questions than answers.
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And then depression set in: Hardin missed the entire season last year with a broken shoulder but did play in the East-West Shrine Game. The Bears brought him in for a pre-draft visit a little more than two weeks ago, no doubt to check him out medically. Earlier in his college career, he had a broken hand and wrist.
Hardin was timed in the 40-yard dash in 4.4 seconds at his pro day and put up 24 reps on the bench press at 225 pounds. He was a popular prospect the last few weeks with about 15 visits as many teams wanted to do work on him.
Hardin made 15 starts in college, 12 coming in 2010 when he had 63 tackles and three forced fumbles.
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Of course the draft coverage totally skips the Bears pick. Probably because they dont have any footage from that far back. Sigh.
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I wont pay any attention to tomorrow's draft players. Still too many holes and the good stuff is all gone.
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In football you dont stay in game shape missing a year. Some never recover. Harden will have to get in mini camps and work with coaching to have a shot at a roster spot
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Ok, trying to talk myself off the ledge, maybe some Mike Brown in him?:
Overview
Hardin is a physically imposing corner who is an intriguing prospect, considering the little playing time he has received the past two years because of multiple injuries. While these injuries are a concern, if teams can look at Hardin's potential, he will likely be picked in the middle rounds as a developmental defensive back who could potentially move to safety.
Analysis
Strengths
Hardin is a physical cover corner who excels playing up close to the line. He has serious value for a Cover 2 team that likes big and physical corners who can support in the flats. He is a good athlete and has impressive hip fluidity for a man of his size, and he uses his length well in-phase.
Weaknesses
Hardin has been held back significantly by injuries throughout his career. He is a bit of a slow-footed athlete, and his size makes him a tweener despite his cover skills. He hasn't played enough snaps at Oregon State to show he is NFL-ready and worthy of an early round pick.
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a head scratcher for sure. But, Hardin is an elite athlete (played corner at 6'2" 220 and runs a sub 4.4 40, and benched 225 24 times at the combine) and if nothing else should be a special teams stud. But another safety? Seems like they want to upgrade on Major Wright -- and if nothing else, Hardin is bigger and faster than Wright, right?
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Hardins grade? 62.0
50-69
Draftable Player
4th-7th
A prospect with the ability to make team as a backup/role player. Needs to be a special teams contributor at applicable positions. Players in the high range of this category might have long-term potential.
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Would just like someone to explain why the braintrust is so opposed to upgrading our talent in the trenches.
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Angelo is Emery, Emery is Angelo.
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So much for the reverse the curse chant.
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Good while it lasted. Off to home and bed. Sober.
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Some comment that kind of sums it up:
Reading the NFL.com scouting reports on the Bears first three drafts picks is depressing: A linebacker who is really an undersized DE and is better suited for a 3-4 (but, hey, he has a "high motor"); a WR with a weight problem (baby fridge?); and a corner who is really a safety and has barely played in the last two seasons because he is perpetually injured. And no OL. I guess Jay Cutler can plan on playing another season on his back. Sigh. I thought we had a new GM.
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I have to agree with others here... after these three picks it doesn't feel like anything in the front office has changed. This is exactly the kind of draft Angelo would have run.
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Well Angelo would probably have hit on the 3rd rounder and maybe the 4th. I guess we can wait and see what happens tom, but I am not real interested right now.
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Strange draft so far. ::)
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Personally I really like the first 2 picks. Don't get the 3rd round at all, but Emery's track record shows he should get the benefit of the doubt. He is so much not Angelo.
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Strange draft so far. ::)
I think you are being a little kind there.
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I think you are being a little kind there.
I wanted OL/WR CB DE with our top 3 picks.
Well ... we "got" 3 out of 4 ...
but the most perplexing 3 out of 4 ever.
No OL, a recently I.R. WR.
A tweener at defense.
A safety who didnt play in 2011.
Look, if you give ME the darts ...
I can hit the dartboard better blindfolded. :P
I'd actually be kind of embarresed as to who we passed on. ??? :-X
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Ditto, unusually kind
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And where is the DT replacement we needed? Izzy? We are already short there
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And where is the DT replacement we needed? Izzy? We are already short there
Ever get the feeling that we go DT and OL in the last rounds?
Like as a holdover from the previous regime ...
the trenches aint that big of a deal?
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I am fine with the first two picks. Not sure about the safety in the third. As always I will reserves judgement until I see them play.
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I am fine with the first two picks. Not sure about the safety in the third. As always I will reserves judgement until I see them play.
Thats all we can hope for. I like to see that they know more then we.
But if these picks come off as a bust ... and those that we passed on,
go on to good things ... BEARRSSE fans are gonna get piissed.
Unless of course we win the SupeBowl. Then all is forgiven. ;D
McCllelin may be the next edge rusher ... ala Allen.
Jeffreys could be what Cutler wanted ... a big threat opposite Marshall.
Hardin could be some kind of stud on ST. We shall see.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bpHPzu_wEM&feature=player_embedded#!
This video shows how good Alshon can be. Notice a couple of the guys trying to defend him are in the NFL now. Notic I said trying because he tore em up.
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This video shows how good Alshon can be. Notice a couple of the guys trying to defend him are in the NFL now. Notic I said trying because he tore em up.
Find us why we drafted Hardin.
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Well if Jeffery plays like that, no problem. Someone will have to dig into the catacombs to find Hardin video, it was so long ago he played. ;)
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Jeffrey reminds me of Michael Floyd; lanky, tall, appears slow but makes huge plays. Very much like Floyd. That safety pick, what was Emery thinking?? He sounds like another Mike Brown- great potential but can't stay on the field due to health. Just seems like a stupid pick. Why not get a healthy guy that can help the team?? What good is a guy who can't stay healthy?? Emery really needed to hit homeruns to get the fans on his side.....did he do this? I can't see it but who knows....let's see. They seriously should be addressing the Oline.
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Jeffrey is probably the fifth best WR in the draft and there was not a whole lot of difference between him and the guys above him. Emery had him rated as the 3rd best WR in the draft.
I like the pick. He is a big WR with good hands that goes up and gets the ball.
Hardin was hurt a lot but bench pressed a whole lot for someone with a bum shoulder. I think injury wise he is good to go.
He is big strong and fast. He played CB and safety but will strictly be a STer and safety for the Bears. I think Emery took him way to early. He probably would have been there later. This pick has Lovie Smith written all over it. Have we taken a safety every year since Smith has been coach? It sure feels like it.
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Jeffrey is probably the fifth best WR in the draft and there was not a whole lot of difference between him and the guys above him. Emery had him rated as the 3rd best WR in the draft.
I like the pick. He is a big WR with good hands that goes up and gets the ball.
Hardin was hurt a lot but bench pressed a whole lot for someone with a bum shoulder. I think injury wise he is good to go.
He is big strong and fast. He played CB and safety but will strictly be a STer and safety for the Bears. I think Emery took him way to early. He probably would have been there later. This pick has Lovie Smith written all over it. Have we taken a safety every year since Smith has been coach? It sure feels like it.
Good point Duck,
But lets be lookin at another angle ...
TOUB still has alotta throwweight at HALAS HALL.
I dont see this as Smith ... this has Toub written all over it.
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This pick has Lovie Smith written all over it. Have we taken a safety every year since Smith has been coach? It sure feels like it.
::: cue the Jim Nantz voiceover :::
A tradition unlike any other...
Including Hardin, the Bears have selected a safety in 10 of the past 11 seasons and each of the past eight. The Bears selected Chris Conte in the third round in 2011, Major Wright in the third round in 2010, and (yet another Oregon Stat safety) Al Alfalava in the sixth round in 2009. You can look up the rest of the safety conga line here (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=0810&type=team).
They seriously should be addressing the Oline.
Oh they will...after Emery trades down and collects extra 7th round draft picks and peruses the gems that his idiot counterparts failed to unearth in the UDFA market. Tradition.
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I am guessing Hardin will be a ST stud for the Bears. But I hope he becomes more then that.
I believe the Bears have a few OL guys targeted in the late part of the draft that have the measureable that they think Tice can coach up. It looks like to me they never had any intention of drafting OL early in the draft.
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I do too. But I expect more out of a 3rd round pick than a ST ace. Saying you have some scientific methodology of avoiding injury risks and then getting a guy who hasn't played last year is not my idea of a clever smokescreen. It sounds like a guy who is out thinking himself and that, among other faults, is what got Angelo fired.
Teams generally don't grab project guys who missed the previous season like Hardin in the 3rd round. If he was Emery's target at that particular time, he might as well have attempted to trade down (if he hadn't already).
I was fine with the draft...up until that point.
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I tend to agree with you but will wait until I see him play.
All three of the Bears picks are 6 foot 3. That is a welcome change, no more midgets.
Hardin at 6' 3" and 222 who can run that fast and cover like a CB has a chance to be a special safety IF he can stay healthy. I would have felt better taking him in the 4th though. Obviously Emery really liked him and felt he would not be there for our next pick.
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The Oline thinking must be that they are going to let Chris Williams compete at OT with Webb and Carimi. Don't forget they just had off season workouts, so Carimi must look like he is back fully. Spencer, Garza, Louis and the 2 new FA round out the Oline, with probably a late round development pick.
3rd round pick feels like a reach and a project. Won't know till he gets on the field some. It is looking as if our ST unit should be excellent this year. Also I do think we need safety help. Major Wright is below average in my opinion.
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Hardin seems to be the type who gets injured just getting out of bed in the morning. How can you be just a ST player if you are always injured? I dont get it.
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One thought about Hardin is that as at former CB at 6'3 and a 4.4 40, if he is asked to cover a TE like Finley he should be able to do that better than most safeties.
Now if he can just stay healthy and get on the field.
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If all Hardin is gonna be is a ST guy, we had no business spending a 3rd round pick on that. I would hope Emery and the coaches have bigger plans for him than that.
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I am many here thinking we are set at WR. However, I would love to see us take "Touchdown Tommy Streeter" from UM.
6'5" 4.35 40. Needs to work on his hands, needs to play the game faster. He would be a nice development player for us IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8Bu3538FdY
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We're good at WR. In fact I'd venture to say if Jeffery keeps himself in shape and Marshall doesn't do anything stupid, we're GREAT at WR.
Where I'm really concerned is DT. Going into Round 4 of the draft and we have Paea and Toeiana and that's it. We badly need a DT who can crush the pocket and get to the QB from the inside and I'm very curious what plan Emery has (if any) to find that guy.
We have 3 picks left (4th, 6th and 7th) and seriously if they all went for DTs it wouldn't bother me. Otherwise I'm afraid we can look forward to a lot of big plays being made against the middle of our DL this year.
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If all Hardin is gonna be is a ST guy, we had no business spending a 3rd round pick on that. I would hope Emery and the coaches have bigger plans for him than that.
Oh I think they have bigger plans for him, its just your plans go out the window if he cant stay healthy. Somehow they have to do something to keep him healthy, what that is is hard to say
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Emery being a big conditioning guy hopefully has a plan to keep the kid healthy
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Emery being a big conditioning guy hopefully has a plan to keep the kid healthy
I hope he also has a plan to keep Jeffery's weight down... and to keep McLellin from getting any more concussions.
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My short takes on the 1st three picks:
McLellin
- What I Like: His motor, attitude and instincts
- What concerns me: Maxed out physically (no upside), inferior college competition, probably not an every down guy
Jeffery
- What I Like: Wins jump balls; dominated NFL-caliber DBs two years ago
- What Concerns Me: Did not respond well to adversity last year; conditioning; can he separate in the NFL?
Hardin
- What I Like: Sorry, but really not much of anything here; good measurables I guess
- What Concerns Me: Pretty much everything; a real WTF pick and whoever talked Emery into this guy must be one hell of a salesman
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Don't be surprised if 4th round pick goes for a TE nobody has ever heard of before. Even though we've got 5 of em on the roster already.
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I would hope rather than a TE we might see an OT or a DT. They must have somebody they believe is going to be a cap cut come June 1st because the DT supply has really dwindled to zero
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Why do you think McClellan won't be an every down player? Heck if he can't handle the run as DE on first and second down they could play him at Roaches spot on first and second down then DE on passing downs. My guess is he is our starting DE opposite Peppers day one. He also looks like he can add some muscle. He looks to have a very similar build as Urlacher but he is a bit bigger.
Jeffrey, didn't respond well to adversity? He had 8 TD's last year! This after losing his QB being double and triple teamed and his team running the ball a heck of a lot more. Plus they won 11 games doing it this way.
Can't disagree with anything you said about Hardin. Great measureables but never really produced because he has always been hurt.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B8EEWiq_c4&feature=related
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IF Jeffery keeps the weight down and stays in shape he COULD be a stud. If he gets lazy now that he is going to see some serious money, hello Mike Williams.
Our talent level and depth are not good enough that we can spend a 3rd rounder on a project for ST. I agree that I am not totally sold on Major Wright, so maybe this kid replaces him, but the whole missed last year really has me bummed.
As for McClellin he just doesnt look like he is 6'3 to me. He looks short and thick to me. As a tweener, you wonder how he will hold up against the run. And if they put him up against RTs (NFL caliber not Boise St caliber) how is he going to hold up.
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Peke digs up some Hardin footage from the crypt. That was a nice play, and probably what got the kid drafted. Would like to see about 20 more plays on film just like that one. And then in a Bears uni this coming season. ;)
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I don't know dawg... Hardin's a head scratcher for me..
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My head scratcher for the day is why has Massie fallen to the 4th round?
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http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52641
Some of these are funny. Warning lots of gif's so it takes awhile to download if you have a slow connection/computer.
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I guess he took Hardin figuring that we face a pretty scary array of tall fast WR's and TE's in our division.
A big fast safety may be necessary
Here's the GBN rankings of safeties, pay attention to the size speed and maybe can see why Hardin is promising:
Mark Barron 6-1, 213 4.55 Alabama (X)
Harrison Smith 6-1.7, 213 4.57 Notre Dame
George Iloka 6 -3.5, 225 4.66 Boise State
Brandon Taylor 5-11, 209 4.58 LSU
Antonio Allen 6-1.5, 210 4.71 South Carolina
Markelle Martin 6-1, 207 4.45 Oklahoma State
Trenton Robinson 5-9.5, 195 4.52 Michigan State
Brandon Hardin 6-2.5, 222 4.45 Oregon State (CB)
Aaron Henry 5-11.5, 210 4.55 Wisconsin
*Janzen Jackson 5-11.5, 188 4.64 McNeese State (O)
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Do you think we were going to find a starting LT or a starting DT in round 3? I too would have preferred to draft depth at those 2 positions in round 3 but we have depth concerns at safety also.
Neither Wright or Conte can be labeled durable so far early in their careers. And Craig Steltz is the only experienced safety on the roster - and he's a strong safety.
I am not going to gloss over the Hardin injuries but his injuries have been upper body - its not like he's had a reconstructed knee or foot problems.
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Injuries and durability are a concern..
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I really like the Jeffrey pick. He has never had a QB like Cutler throwing to him. He looked great and was talked about as a future top 10 pick before last year when Garcia his QB got booted from the team and wasn't able to develop any chemistry with the replacement. . Spurrier coached receivers have done pretty well in the NFL unlike his QB's. I'm warming to the McLennin pick and while I'm not sure about the Harden pick I'm willing to wait and see. I don't think we were as set at safety as we like to think. I'm surprised but not disappointed in the draft so far.
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Bears just drafted a FB.
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Guess Tice is putting his mark on the offense. Ground and pound
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Jesus God, a FB? I dont believe we waste another pick
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a FB!!!! man ... did not see that one coming! ???
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Emery hasn't done too well in this draft so far.
I like the Jeffries pick but round 3 & 4 is very questionable.
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Is Angelo still in the war room drafting?
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I can't believe we passed up Massie for a FB/TE.
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A fullback? in round 4? WTF!
Massie picked with next pick.
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Bears just drafted a FB.
Ok, that is not funny. And if it comes true, yikes.
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A lot of teams passed on Massie and took other OT's even though Kiper had him as the best available remaining...wonder why?
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Did not expect a fullback...I thought Massey was a solid player. I guess we are going to have a big tryout of undrafted FAs to find a swing tackle and a backup DT.
I wonder if the Bears were eyeing that TE from ULALA that got taken by the Chargers one pick before.
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Guess Tice is putting his mark on the offense. Ground and pound
You better have a good OLine for that philosophy
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Holy Sh1t a FB. Seriously is that what we need? When do the bring Angelo back chants start???
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Bears website says he is a TE:
The Bears selected Temple tight end Evan Rodriguez in the fourth round of the draft with the 111th overall pick.
In three seasons at Temple, Rodriguez caught 69 passes for 871 yards and seven touchdowns in 37 career games. The 6-1½, 244-pounder had 35 receptions for 479 yards and two TDs last year as a senior.
Pro Football Weekly's 2012 Draft Preview describes Rodriguez as an "athletic, finesse, high-maintenance 'move' player with tweener traits and off-the-field red flags." The New Jersey native began his college career at West Virginia before transferring to Temple after redshirting as a freshman.
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Its about time for a development QB in round 6. This draft is over
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You better have a good OLine for that philosophy
The OL's we have now are better run blockers than pass blockers...maybe that's why the braintrust is comfortable with what we have.
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111. Chicago Bears: TE Evan Rodriguez, Temple -- Coached by Steve Addazio at Temple, Rodriguez has played fullback but moved to tight end when Addazio cited similarities to a player he'd coached at Florida -- Aaron Hernandez. Rodriguez ran in the high 4.5-second range at the Combine and has soft, natural hands.
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This FB is probably Forte's replacement
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Yup, he's a TE not a FB. His combine numbers for speed and agility were excellent.
I'd still have preferred the O-lineman that was taken one pick AFTER.
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A 6-1 TE??? I see a FB there.
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And we dont have enough TEs on the roster? 5 isnt enough?
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great, a tiny TE!
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A 6-1 TE??? I see a FB there.
Read boogie's post. He's a TE that the Bears are hoping to mold into the Pat's Aaron Hernandez, who is 6-1 245 and had 900 receiving yards last season.
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I read it and I disagreed.
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He may be replacing Coon at FB.
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I read it and I disagreed.
He's a TE...whether you want to admit it or not. Though he may play some h-back as I don't think he's physical enough to handle heavy duty blocking required by a full time TE or a FB.
He's a receiving TE...that's what he played at Temple last season.
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Welll, haven't done anythng to help protect Cutler but we sure have given him some weapons this offseason
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Seeya Kyle Adams
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01/21/12 - EAST-WEST SHRINE MONDAY: Teams looking for a poor man's Aaron Hernandez should take a long, hard look at Temple's Evan Rodriguez. He showed his versatility in practice, lining up outside the tackle on the line of scrimmage and also in the backfield. Rodriguez isn't very impressive physically, measuring a hair over 6-1 1/2 and 242 pounds, but he put his reliable hands on display with very good vision and focus to reel in tough catches. He is a smaller target and struggled in blocking drills, but Rodriguez is an intriguing pass-catcher. - Dane Brugler, NFLDraftScout.com
12/17/11 - Ten Temple Owls recently earned 2011 All-Mid-American Conference team honors for football. Named to the first team were senior OL Pat Boyle, junior RB Bernard Pierce, senior TE Evan Rodriguez, and senior DE Adrian Robinson.... Rodriquez earned first-team honors for the second consecutive year. - The Sports Xchange
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Dear God you called it, a TE nobody has heard off. This draft is a Jer Clone. Its the bear version of invasion of the body snachers. Jer took over Emery. GAGGG, retch, vomit.
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I just don't angst too much over the draft :D
I'll wait to see what the players do (and don't do) before throwing Emery under the bus.......
But I do agree- they really do seem to feel the Oline is not a problem.......
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Have to factor in Brandon Marshall into the success /failure of this draft since it was draft picks that brought him to us.
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Holy cow...this IS Angielow part du! What the hell is this clown thinking?!? A FB converted to TE? Did we NEED that at 4? How fricking stupid can this be? Good grief.....there is some strange crap in the Koolaid at Halas....drafts build teams, we build ours through FA evidently and throw the draft to the wind....
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http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=2989&play_clip=Y&rn=16
Another weapon for Cutler. I don't think the Bears are going to have anymore problems in the redzone...
In one off season Emery has completely transformed our TE/WR core.
This guy looks to have some wheels for a TE.
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Well IF he can play like Aaron Hernandez that would be great, and who cares if his blocking isnt great. But that is a very big IF...
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Not a bad pick for the fourth round.
I think many of you will be singing a different tune once the season gets underway about these guys.
The smallest draft pick so far is this TE who is almost 6' 2". Keep in mind Emery said he wants starters in rounds one and two. He wants guys contributing their first year in rounds three and four. After that developmental players.
Why all the hand wringing?
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Watch the video I posted. He does a pretty good job of blocking in it and he seems to have good hands and is pretty quick.
Heck in one play he made not one but two blocks to spring the runner for a TD.
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They sure must have a lot of faith in Jamarcus Webb.
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The TE is interesting. It looks like he has some speed, but he's short. He was also kicked out of WVU, which is reallllllllllllllly hard to do and then got in trouble again at Temple. He's worth a shot in the 4th. The 3rd rounder is a heck of an athlete, but a lot of athlete's can't play football either. This just reeks of an Angelo draft.
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Players from Oregon State can play football, they get good coaching.
Hardin's injuries are the only concern.
6'3 with speed I really like against tight ends, Calvin Johbson etc.
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That great coaching got him 1 INT in his career.
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LOL!!!
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I'm OK with drafting a safety. It's a lynchpin of our defense, and I have seen enough of Major Wright to think he's a backup.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RsM55Fm4Rc
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Watching that video the guy seems to track the ball very well. 6 ft 190 pounds.
Hard to complain about a 6th round pick.
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If Reiff,DeCastro,Mercilus ... etc. that we passed on goes to the Pro-Bowl ...
I'm going to Halas Hall and upchucking blood and vomit on Emery's desk.
BUT ... I digress ... lets see em play at what the braintrust has in store for them.
It better be spectacular ... after what we passed on. ???
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http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/How-has-Phil-Emery-done-in-his-first-draft.html
A good read.
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With the seventh round pick in the 2012 draft ...
THE CHICAGO BEARS select ...
YOU!
Thats right! Every game a BEARS fan will be selected from the stands to PLAY FOOTBALL,
for THE CHICAGO BEARS!
It beats the hell out of drafting ... and it's cheap !
Bring your spiked shoes to Soldiers and be ready to suit up !
IT COULD BE YOU !
Dinner for two at The Palmer House after the game.
This message brought to you by Toyota™ of greater Chicagoland. :P
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Peke pulled me off the ledge....alright....I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Been so long with such a terrible drafter that I'm still in WTH mode.
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Ok video of Frey doesnt look too bad, against competition that will never play in the NFL. Hope he can push some people. And a CB in the 7th? Need to find out some more about him.
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CB 6th AND 7th....guess they want help in the secondary, huh....two CB's and a S....
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Aaahp the OL is fine. Not going to be a problem. Plenty of talent. Oh brother.
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Aaahp the OL is fine. Not going to be a problem. Plenty of talent. Oh brother.
Dont worry they are calling out to all the UDFAs now. No problem, any big fat guy can play Oline.
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draft is a crapshoot. bleacher forum has one article grading the bears draft an "A". very next article says bears are one of the top ten losers in draft. I guess thats why they play the games. we'll find out in 4 1/2 months I suppose...
GO BEARS!!! ;D
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Just watched that video of the 6th round CB. First reaction is my goodness how did this guy wait till the 6th round to get drafted. He looks like a stud! I am really excited to see how he plays at the next level. Hopefully he shows what he has right away.
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Apparently the thinking is that if Cutler has enough big reliable guys to throw to, the protection will take care of itself. We shall see.
Its also clear that Emery felt we needed to get more athletic at a few positions, particularly DB where fully half our draft picks were spent. Again, we'll have to see if these guys can actually play NFL football better than some much better known names who were still on the board.
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One of the biggest things Bears did that helped with protecting Cut was chip the end. When they started doing that, he had time to hit his man. When they DIDN'T do that, Cut was alot of the time running for his life. This was a fault of the Coord. Not to mention with heavy pressure Martz would do a 7 step drop, which is just ridiculous. So there are things that definately can help Cut. Some healthy players would help, too....with all the O weapons Cut has now, things should get REAL interesting on offense this year!
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The Bears have had a terrific offseason. They are loaded with playmakers. I am really looking forward to next year.
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I would agree that Cutler now has lots and lots of weapons to choose from. The real question is, will he have enough time/protection to get the ball to any of them. THAT is what is important.
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People act like Cutler was getting killed the last five games. He wasn't. He got hurt on a turn over tackling the guy.
We get Carimi and Williams back also. I actually think we have a pretty good OL except for LOT. Webb is average at best but we can scheme to help him with everyone else healthy and playing their proper positions.
When the Bears run the ball more, move the pocket and now have big huge receivers that can take a jump ball and score when Cutler has to throw it up, well let's just say I am excited for this season as well.
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These are the undrafted free agents so far
Ronnie Cameron, DT, Old Dominion
James Brown, OL, Troy
Trevor Coston, S, Maine
Chris Summers, WR, Liberty
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The OL from Troy was on Kipers Best Available list today so good for the Bears if they signed him.
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Really? Too little too late. We already have a 7th round pick protecting Cutlers blind side. Lets upgrade to a UDFA. Just saying.
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James Brown Jump back kiss maself I'm super bad!
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I will predict right now Cutler is sacked less then half the QB's in the league. People need to relax. The problem was smurf WR's who could not get open and not running the ball.
Look at the sacks. They were at the beginning of the year when we were not running the ball and at the end after Cutler got hurt.
Now the safetys will have to stay deep and will probably be going to Marshall's side. This is going to open up things for Bennett and Jeffrey. Plus Forte or Bush out of the backfield.
Angelo never got it. Emery has fixed a whole lot in one off season.
Is he the greatest GM ever? No. He just gets it better then Angelo did. We pick up a few quality UDFA's and also sign some free agents that will get cut due to players that were drafted to gill in depth and we are good to go.
Sure we still need a stud LT but over half the teams in the league are looking for that player. They are as hard to come by as franchise QB's. Although word is the Dolphins are looking to get rid of Jake Long. Why I have no clue but that is the rumor.
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http://www.hulu.com/watch/97800/saturday-night-live-james-browns-celebrity-hot-tub-party
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Reiff,DeCastro,Mercluis,Jones ... etc.
If those make the PRO BOWL and our picks dont ...
sombody has to answer.
Now ... is McClellin an OLB or DE?
Is Rodriguez a FB or TE?
Is Emery shifting the shape of NFL football?
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MeClellin is a DE, Smith said today in the Trib. Also, my WTF moment yesterday was when Rodriguez was announced as a FB. He wears 88 in college, so how that got out there, don't know. But the Bears will play him as a TE and an H-back.
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Peke, that video was hilarious, however it cant be real.
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Well our OL has to be feeling pretty good about themselves right now. That was a huge vote of confidence Emery gave them this weekend... and a big middle finger to all the fans who feel otherwise.
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If this UDFA list (http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012-nfl-undrafted-free-agents) is legit, it looks like most teams are going for the full 90...except the Pats and the Bears.
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Still wondering what the plan is to fill the holes Emery created at DT.
This was a pretty deep draft class at that position and it feels like we missed some opportunities there.
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From the Trib (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/sns-tsn-agn-fcs-signings-20120429,0,2335233.story)
Old Dominion defensive tackle Ronnie Cameron, the 2011 CAA Football Defensive Player of the Year, came to terms with the Chicago Bears. Two other CAA standouts, Massachusetts linebacker Tyler Holmes and Maine safety Trevor Coston, also signed with the Bears, as did wide receivers Chris Summers of Liberty and Terriun Crump of Western Illinois.
NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828bb384/article/undrafted-freeagent-deals-for-all-32-nfl-teams) hasn't listed the Troy OL either.
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if these guys pan out we got.......
1st round Jared Allen
2nd round Mushin Muhammed (in his prime)
3rd round Troy Polamalu
4th round Aaron Hernandez
6th and 7th round, who cares we already picked up 4 pro-bowlers!
If not we got
1st round Dan Bauzin.
2nd round Mike Williams (the Lion)
3rd round Todd Gray
4th round Jason McKie
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NFL.com is listing Brown now. Along with a rb from Wyoming and a LB from Southern Miss. The orginal site I got it from (pats draft) is listing an OT from Akron as well.
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Interview with the DT from ODU. If nothing else, he's smart.
http://profootball.scout.com/2/1175562.html
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Is he the greatest GM ever? No. He just gets it better then Angelo did.
Awful early to be making this statement..
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We had nothing but head scratching drafts from Angelo, I see this one as no different..
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Well our OL has to be feeling pretty good about themselves right now. That was a huge vote of confidence Emery gave them this weekend... and a big middle finger to all the fans who feel otherwise.
I'm too lazy to do the research but I believe that under Martz in St Louis Warner led the league in getting sacked. This was with an OL that included a future hall of famer in his prime. Makes me wonder if our line was really that bad and may be ok with a more traditional offense without the crazy 7 step drops etc.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/29/bears-feel-good-about-undrafted-free-agent-james-brown/
Lists all of our signed free agents.
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Wshful that was an old Saturday Night Live skit with Eddie Murphy playing James Brown.
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I've seen a few comparisons of Shea McLellin to Jared Allen and I'm not sure that's terribly accurate, or fair to either player.
Yeah they're both high-motor down-home guys who played their college football in the state of Idaho. But McLellin is 6'3 with barely average arm length for his height (just under 33 inches, which Emery acknowledged on the record), while Allen in 6'6 and all arms and legs.
If McLellin turns out as well as Allen I'll be thrilled, but I'm not gonna lay money it happens.
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As far as Hardin... here's what Trib columnist Matt Bowen had to say:
I'm curious about the selection of yet another safety in Oregon State's Brandon Hardin. He comes with big size (6-3, 217) and ideal mid-4.4 speed for the position. But what about the injury history? Hardin missed all of 2011 with a shoulder injury and only had fifteen starts at Oregon State.
But he's a prospect with the ability to run, hit and cover on special teams. As for competition in the secondary, Major Wright needs to be pushed at strong safety. As a third-round pick, Hardin should be expected to challenge for some playing time, but I'm thinking special teams will be his primary role.
This is about as close as a guy on the Trib staff can get to saying "WTF?" about a Bears front-office decision and still keep his job. And the fact that Bowen himself played safety in the NFL for several years at a relatively high level -- and doesn't think Hardin has the goods to be anything more than a special-teamer -- raises huge red flags in my mind.
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I dont know why, but McClellin sort of reminds me of Chris Zorich. Small, thick, compact, high motor. I guess we will see when he starts playing.
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Yup, Zorich. Played reasonably well for a couple years, then got hurt and completely disappeared.
That's the risk you run with undersized speed guys, especially on the DL... their shelf like tends to run short, and they have no margin for error. Once they lose a step (whether due to injuries, age or both), they're useless.
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Between the three FA ST studs that Emery signed, and now Hardin, our ST units are well stocked to say the least.
I think it's very possible to hit a point of diminishing returns in terms of piling up ST personnel (and we very well may be at that point), but Toub certainly has to be very happy with Emery at this point.
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We'll have the best ST in the entire league! That's like saying you won the lottery to take the ugliest chick to prom....
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Wshful that was an old Saturday Night Live skit with Eddie Murphy playing James Brown.
Yeah, "Papa's got a brand new bag" He might even be our GM. ;D ;D ;D ;D
I knew it wasnt Brown. Didnt know it was Eddie Murphy. I knew the guy didnt have James Brown's build and looked much younger than Brown would be. If he isnt deceased I think Brown is older than me.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APbgNk6D0nc
Ronnie Cameron high lights.
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This kid they got as a UDFA A J Green is a 6'5 309 lb OT from Auburn. They usually have pretty good OLmen. So with James Brown they did add 2 offensive tackles.
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Ok so the video of Cameron makes me wonder why he wasnt drafted in the first round. Looks exactly like what we need a DT to do. Hope the kid pans out.
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Keep in mind the level of competition Old Dominion plays at. That might explain why he went undrafted even though he has good tape.
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if Cameron was 96, #90 looked just as good on the tape I saw.
It was like they were running through OL.
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The thing is there are tons of good players that go undrafted every year. The key is finding them and then gettig them to sign. New England does a very good job of that. It is looking like Emery may as well.
Of course we have to wait and see how many if any make the team and what they do then. I don't think Angelo had a lot of success with UDFA's though.
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Nothing wrong with having great special teams, as long as its not the only thing you've got.
Our D gives up a sh*tload of yards, especially thru the air so if our STs can cover for some of that, so much the better.
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I think a lot of NE success is in the coaching. I believe thats why we havent cashed in on that
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No doubt their head coach is a genius but is every single coach on their staff?
I like what Emery is doing. The first two picks were football players who have performed with the size and speed needed in the NFL. It is crazy Jeffreys fell in the second round low enough for us to trade up. I think we are all going to be loving this pick this year!
If the first two picks end up being the probowl quality players I think they will be the rest of the draft does not even matter. However I think we are going to get some solid contribution from them.
The Bears are going to have a great year!
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Would be nice if they got the Forte business dealt with. Either sign him long term or trade him.
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I dont think they can trade him. And he isnt worth what he is trying to get.
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He wil sign the franchise tag before the deadline or he and his agent are total morons. Although they have already proven they are by what they have turned down.
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I think a lot of NE success is in the coaching. I believe thats why we havent cashed in on that
Totally agree. Outside of Tice and Toub, our coaches are average across the board at best. Hopefully Bates will pull up the average somewhat but guys like Darryl Drake, Tim Spencer and whoever coaches our DBs haven't impressed me at all.
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We had 5 UDFA make the roster last year. Which doesnt bode well for your drafting. Just saying.
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We had 5 UDFA make the roster last year. Which doesnt bode well for your drafting. Just saying.
That was exactly my thought when those 5 guys made the roster last year. I was happy for them but at the same time that means there were some guys on the roster Angelo had drafted that clearly didn't belong in the league since our roster has been one of the worst in the league especially in the bottom half to one-third.
If that many UDFAs can knock off guys your team had previously drafted, you're not drafting the right guys.
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I somewhat agree but if you have 10 holes (due to FA's, age, injuries etc) and only 7 draft picks who do you take?
We had a lot of JAGs turn over this year (Barber, Williams, Omiyale, Okoye, etc) so we had a lot of holes to fill. We filled many with FAs on short contracts. If we can get an UDFA with more upside I'm fine with cutting some of the more expensive vets.
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I was thinking a lot of Emery's picks had us scratching our head until we could do a little research.
I thought it might be fun to pretend you were Phil Emery and the draft shook out like it did. Who would you have taken? It might be fun to look back in a year or so and see how we fared. To allow a little flexibility you can either use the trades that Emery took or you can stay at your original spots. No looking ahead. I kept our original picks because I was scared away from Jeffrey due to his apparent lack of work ethic.
19. Whitney Mercilus - DE - I would have wanted DeCastro but would have taken Mercilus.
50. Mike Adams - OT -we need OL help and I thought he might make it to our 2nd pick.
79. Mohamed Sanu - WR -we need WR help, I thought he would have went earlier. I would have looked hard at Massey here but taken Sanu.
112 Bobby Massey - OT- the value is too high to pass on him but he might only be able to play RT in the NFL
150 Billy Winn - DT - good value at DT and we are thin there.
184 Tommy Streeter - WR - another big WR with speed.
220 Alfonso Denard - CB - again good value and we could use DB help.
I know we don't have access to all the info that the scouts do. I basically looked at who was available and their grade to help me figure out who to take. If we had come away with these guys I would have felt we covered most of our major needs but still took value at who was available with no major reaches.
I'm curious why guys like Massey and Winn fell so far when they had pretty good grades on them.
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Seriously, that to me would have been a pretty damn good draft. Whitney might have been a homer pick, but what the hell. Sometimes homer picks are the best, ie Butkus. I obviously haven't a clue about the draft compared to the people who do it for a living, but as a fan I would have felt more comfortable with your choices for sure. These guys? ehhhhhhh.....I hope so. That's about all I can say.
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It's really interesting how the Bears' draft is being rated anywhere from a low A to barely a D depending on which publication is doing the grading.
I doubt opinions are that varied on too many other teams and that tells me that Emery executed this draft with a certain vision in mind, but nobody really knows what that vision is.
The one theme that jumps out -- apart from Jeffery who I believe was a sheer value pick -- is versatility.
- McLellin can play DE or LB.
- Hardin, if the scouting reports are legit, could play CB or S and I don't think it's too far-fetched to even say that with 10 more pounds to get up to ~230 he could possibly play LB in certain schemes or situations.
- Rodriguez could be a TE, FB or H-Back
So what you've got is Emery hedging his bets on Lovie... saying, OK, this is your make-or-break year so here are some guys I think can get you over the top but if you can't get it done we've got some guys who will help your replacement too.
For example, assume Lovie and Marinelli are launched after another year of terrible pass defense, and we bring in a new HC and a DC that wants to run a 3-4. We've got 4 LBs good to go (McLellin, Urlacher, Briggs and Hardin), a couple of DEs in Peppers and Izzy (though a 3-4 would waste Peppers' talents IMO), plenty of other CBs and Safeties and all we'd really need is a stud NT who presumably would be our 1st round draft pick. In other words, Emery's choice of our next HC would not be constrained by our personnel because we'd have the players with the overall ability and flexibility to fit into a lot of different systems.
I think Emery would like a bunch of the players he drafted to make an impact right out of the gate this year -- and I do believe he expects that at least out of McLellin and Jeffery -- but he's willing to take the heat if they don't because he believes they'll be good players down the road in any event, and irregardless of who's coaching them.
Or. everything above is hogwash and what's really happening is the Bears are staffing up for the first 2-4-5 defense the league has ever seen. Which would explain the tweener picks at 1 and 3, the total lack of interest in any D-linemen and the ridiculous amount of DBs we have amassed via FA and this past weekend.
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The draft ratings are not to be taken seriously. They merely represent how well a team agrees wsith the rater's values.
A GM is not just collecting talent but is selecting players who fit into the team's needs and fits their system and plans.
I think that the Bears and Packers both did well this draft. In a couple of years, then we can evaluate this draft in a meanngful fashion.
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I kept our original picks because I was scared away from Jeffrey due to his apparent lack of work ethic.
Read this article that discusses Jeffrey's lack of work ethic: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1123069-south-carolina-football-alshon-jefferys-speedy-forty-times-prove-critics-wrong
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The biggest problem I have with the draft is the CB/S from Oregon State in the 3rd roung. I mean the guy didnt even play last year and cant seem to stay healthy. Is it a conditioning issue? and being a conditioning guy thats a very strange pick. Thats so fricking Angelo-like that it stinks
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I agree, that Hardin pick is really hard to figure. Seems like he would have been there for us at least another round later.
Even Matt Bowen (who writes for the Tribune and played safety in the NFL for several years) implied in his article that this guy is not NFL material for anything other than special teams. Which would make taking him in the 3rd an epic reach, especially with solid depth OL prospects on the board and us being painfully thin at DT as well.
One explanation I saw floated was that because Hardin's injury was upper-body, Emery was comfortable making the pick as opposed to if he had missed a full season cause of a knee or Achilles. Whatever, I guess. Chris Williams' injuries have all been above the waist (back, wrist), but they've rendered him useless to us for half of his career. Brittle is brittle as far as I'm concerned.
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I kept our original picks because I was scared away from Jeffrey due to his apparent lack of work ethic.
Read this article that discusses Jeffrey's lack of work ethic: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1123069-south-carolina-football-alshon-jefferys-speedy-forty-times-prove-critics-wrong
I take that article with a grain of salt. I am not so sure I buy it. IMHO the jury is out on Jeffery. Only time will tell. I will wait to see what he brings to the table when the season begins.
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19. Whitney Mercilus - DE - I would have wanted DeCastro but would have taken Mercilus.
50. Mike Adams - OT -we need OL help and I thought he might make it to our 2nd pick.
79. Mohamed Sanu - WR -we need WR help, I thought he would have went earlier. I would have looked hard at Massey here but taken Sanu.
112 Bobby Massey - OT- the value is too high to pass on him but he might only be able to play RT in the NFL
150 Billy Winn - DT - good value at DT and we are thin there.
184 Tommy Streeter - WR - another big WR with speed.
220 Alfonso Denard - CB - again good value and we could use DB help.
I think these are very safe picks that most would find suitable. But if Adams and Massey are strictly RT types - you have spent 2 draft choices on a swing tackle. I like the Streeter pick but I'm not sure Denard has the speed to play in the NFL. Alshon Jeffrey beat him badly in a Nebraska/SC game i watched last year.
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Brittle is brittle as far as I'm concerned.
Same with me. Missing a season is still missing a season regardless where the injury is. And a defensive player uses his shoulder to make tackles. Does that mean he wont tackle now?
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The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw we drafted a S out of Oregon State was Al Afalava... also from Oregon State... who did a whole lot of nothing for us in a couple of years except sustain a pretty major injury that led to him being cut.
Gotta wonder if something is significantly wrong with that school's training / medical program.
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I take that article with a grain of salt. I am not so sure I buy it. IMHO the jury is out on Jeffery. Only time will tell. I will wait to see what he brings to the table when the season begins.
Jeffery's 4.4 at his Pro Day surprises me because he doesn't look that fast on tape... even the tape from his sophomore year, which was stellar.
But what he does bring is a WR we haven't had in forever... a big bodied guy with big hands who will go up and fight for every ball. Our red zone offense has been atrocious for several years now and the major reason for that is we've lacked anyone with the size, strength and physical attitude to overwhelm tight man coverage and win jump balls in the endzone. Jeffery will be that guy if his mind is right, which with quality veterans like Cutler, Bennett and Forte in the locker room I believe will be the case.
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Another thing that came to mind was that CB/S that we had last year that was like 6'5 from Northern Iowa.
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Hardin is not a safe pick - they probably could have picked a slower smaller safety with the pick and it would not have been scrutinized as much.
In fact all of Emery's picks were either labeled reaches or risks - but each one has something special that separates them from the pack. Only time will tell.
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Another thing that I noticed was speed. We got guys speedier. The game has gotten faster and the Bears are trying to get faster as well, which is a good thing and a way we can catch up to the rest of the league
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Another thing that came to mind was that CB/S that we had last year that was like 6'5 from Northern Iowa.
No, Hardin is not 6-5 (he's 6-2 plus) but I bet that Northern Iowa safety never ran a 4.36 40 or could bench press 225 lbs 24 times (I think his shoulder is OK).
He'll play special teams from the get go but I wouldn't be surprised if the Bears work him into a safety rotation much like they did Major Wright his rookie year.
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I thought Adams was an LT prospect who needed a little work..
I think the reason we didn't take Massey was because he was being viewed as a RT and we have 2-3 guys that can fill that role.
That may also be the reason we didn't take Reiff.
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I don't recall the scouting reports for Adams off hand but if he was a legit LT prospect he wouldn't have drifted into round 2 - those guys go fast.
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Adams was smoking pot at (or just before) the combine and lied to teams' face there when they asked him about it.
From what I know of Emery I wouldn't be surprised if Adams wasn't even on the Bears board at all because of that.
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I think a lot of NE success is in the coaching. I believe thats why we havent cashed in on that
Totally agree. Outside of Tice and Toub, our coaches are average across the board at best.
I still to this day don't understand this love you have for Tice. I mean haven't you complained about our O-line ever since he's been here?
You're upset that he put Webb at LT and looks to be the same for this season.
So why so much love for the guy is a mystery.
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Re Hardin, it just surprises me that on a Bears team where there has been absolutely no continuity at S because none of our guys can stay healthy, Emery spent a 3rd round pick on a safety with durability issues.
If McLellin is the dependable, durable guy with a great record of college production but limited upside, then Hardin is the exact opposite.
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Phill,
Look at the absolute garbage that Angelo gave Tice to work with. The fact that Cutler is even still upright and functioning despite that miserable collection of talent tells me Tice has got something on the ball. If we had kept our previous OL coach Cutler would be in a wheelchair mumbling incoherently by now. Tice isn't playing Webb at LT cause he wants to, he's playing him there cause Angelo never gave him anyone better.
Compare that to our stiff of a DB coach who has gotten at least one CB or one S (sometimes both) given to him EVERY DRAFT for the last 7 years and our D-Backfield is still sh*t.
And Emery must share my confidence in Tice's abilities because otherwise he certainly would have upgraded the talent on that unit by now.
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Phill,
Look at the absolute garbage that Angelo gave Tice to work with.
Okay let's look at it. HE made the decision to move Webb, who was effective as a RT to LT and he looked bad.
The team drafted Gabe Carimi to play LT and he moved him to the RT spot.
That's on the coach and to me that was a bad decision. But of course you think he's the bomb.
The fact that Cutler is even still upright and functioning despite that miserable collection of talent tells me Tice has got something on the ball. If we had kept our previous OL coach Cutler would be in a wheelchair mumbling incoherently by now. Tice isn't playing Webb at LT cause he wants to, he's playing him there cause Angelo never gave him anyone better.
If I recall didn't Cutler get sacked 9 times in the first half of a game a couple years ago? Tice was the OL coach then and Cutler had to sit out a game after that because of his brain scrambled from those hits.
And last year after the Saints loss the team had to constantly put max protection for Cutler during games.
But you just love Tice.
Compare that to our stiff of a DB coach who has gotten at least one CB or one S (sometimes both) given to him EVERY DRAFT for the last 7 years and our D-Backfield is still sh*t.
Our defense is still formidable inspite of your dislike for our CB's. Without a good o-line the offense will stink period.
And Emery must share my confidence in Tice's abilities otherwise he certainly would have upgraded the talent on that unit by now.
You wasn't saying that over the weekend. :)
Or maybe Emery doesn't know what the hell he's doing either. We'll see this season.
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No way Hardin could play OLB in a 3-4 scheme. He'd have to get up to around 250-260. I'd like the first rounder if we were a 3-4 defense. I just don't think he'll be strong enough to hold up at the point of attack.
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I thought Adams was an LT prospect who needed a little work..
I think the reason we didn't take Massey was because he was being viewed as a RT and we have 2-3 guys that can fill that role.
That may also be the reason we didn't take Reiff.
A lot of teams took other tackles and passed on Massie. Must be a reason.
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Our defense is still formidable inspite of your dislike for our CB's.
Our defense is hardly formidable. No decent OC or QB is scared of the Bears. Our run D is pretty good but our pass D sucks ass and has for several years. Terrible in passing yardage allowed and abysmal in 3rd down conversions against, especially 3rd and longs. I hope the Bears can turn that around this year but with a 3-4 OLB and a project S/CB hybrid as our draft additions -- along with the same coaches and outdated scheme -- I won't hold my breath on that.
Or maybe Emery doesn't know what the hell he's doing either. We'll see this season.
Well I guess the other way to look at it is, Emery hates Tice and stiffed him on OL talent in the draft to set him up to fail. We'll see how last year's cast of Bears O-Linemen does this year cause it looks like they're all comin' back.
I would hope that if our offense finally puts everything together this year and Cutler has a Pro Bowl (or Pro Bowl caliber) season, that people will at least give credit to Tice as an OC even if they're not sold on him as an OL coach.
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a scouting report on Brandon Marshall (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/2846.html)
Sounds like the scouting reports for Jeffrey
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Our defense is still formidable inspite of your dislike for our CB's.
Our defense is hardly formidable. No decent OC or QB is scared of the Bears. Our run D is pretty good but our pass D sucks ass and has for several years. Terrible in passing yardage allowed and abysmal in 3rd down conversions against, especially 3rd and longs. I hope the Bears can turn that around this year but with a 3-4 OLB and a project S/CB hybrid as our draft additions -- along with the same coaches and outdated scheme -- I won't hold my breath on that.
Well I saw the defense playing lights out after the Detroit Monday night game until Cutler got injured.
We'll see how they go this season.
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Projection: Late 6th Round for Brandon Marshall.
Wow. Guess those folks got it a little bit wrong. Definite similarities to Jeffery in the pro's and con's, though.
Interesting that absolutely nothing was mentioned about Marshall's intangibles, character, etc. in that scouting report. Considering it has become such a huge issue during his pro career.
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Well I saw the defense playing lights out after the Detroit Monday night game until Cutler got injured.
We'll see how they go this season.
And I'm not saying our D sucks every game. It's just that their truly dominating games are few and far between, and they have way too many games where they are merely average and then two or three a year where they just look terrible (New Orleans and the first Detroit game last year come immediately to mind). I want to see them bringing it every game rather than wondering which version of our D is gonna show up this week.
I think the Bears D gets a lot more love in the local and national media than they really warrant when you go back game by game and see some of the yardage they give up, how they get shredded by the premier QBs like Rodgers, Brady and Brees and how they don't make the plays (sacks, deflections, INTs, goal-line stops) that a true championship caliber D would make.
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Projection: Late 6th Round for Brandon Marshall.
Wow. Guess those folks got it a little bit wrong. Definite similarities to Jeffery in the pro's and con's, though.
Interesting that absolutely nothing was mentioned about Marshall's intangibles, character, etc. in that scouting report. Considering it has become such a huge issue during his pro career.
I'm thinking the "level of competition" issue at UCF was part of the reason for the 6th round prediction.
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Yap, I'm not following you. In one sentence you say that Angelo is to blame because he didn't give Tice any talent but you don't seem to blame Emery because he trusts Tice but didn't give him any talent either.
I agree with you that Tice is one of the better OL coaches in the league. You don't go from OL coach to HC in the NFL without a lot of folks having a great deal of respect for you.
I think the biggest problem is our OL and WR were not good enough for Martz scheme/playcalling.
I'm fulling expecting barring any injuries our line to do at least average to a little above average this year. I think at times they will look good and at times they will look bad. I think we will be able to run the ball, do some rollouts, PA and hopefuly with Jay's mobility he won't get hit to many times.
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I'd like the first rounder if we were a 3-4 defense. I just don't think he'll be strong enough to hold up at the point of attack.
That's the crux of my issue with McLellin. He really seems mismatched to our scheme... unless there are some radical changes coming in the form of hybrid fronts, etc. I don't see a fit and it feels more like a case of keeping a guy away from another team than really helping your own.
For McLellin to line up as a 3-down LDE I don't see happening. You want a guy who can stand up to double-teams cause the LDE sees a lot of those. Now, if you start moving him around in various positions on the field depending on the situation, creating mismatches, etc... then he has a shot but Marinelli damn well had better guess right a lot more often than not or he'll get taken out of the play altogether.
It just seems like a guy like McLellin is gonna require a lot more creativity out of our coaches than I've typically associated with them in order for him to really pay off. It's gonna require some out of the box thinking to put McLellin in the best position to succeed and I'm not convinced that with this staff anyway, that's gonna happen. We'll see and I hope I'm wrong.
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Yap, I'm not following you. In one sentence you say that Angelo is to blame because he didn't give Tice any talent but you don't seem to blame Emery because he trusts Tice but didn't give him any talent either.
Even though I have some serious questions about Emery's first draft, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt (this first year at least), because I believe he is making a calculated gam-ble that if Cutler has enough big-bodied, reliable pass catchers to throw to, that the protection will take care of itself. An unconventional theory, but one that's plausible. With Angelo, OTOH pass protection and the passing game in general was just not a priority. It was defense and STs, always and only. The decade-long lack of quality players drafted at either WR or OL is evidence of that.
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I've got you now.
Based on how fast other QB's get the ball out i'm leaning more towards our WR being suspect as well.
We know we need a better line, hopefully the WR will make everyone look better.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDm6zqkuFIY
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And the other thing is, there were times last year when Cutler actually did get time to throw, and finally had to chuck it away cause our guys never got open, or he'd throw it and it was a catch you'd expect a starting NFL WR to make and for whatever reason our guy wouldn't come down with it so it would either be a pick or an INC.
By the end of the year (before he got hurt) you could see Cutler's confidence in any WR other than Bennett was extremely low. He was only throwing to guys when they were wide open and that doesn't happen very often in the NFL. Where Cutler's trust needed rebuilding was as much in the WRs as in the OL and so at least we got part of the equation addressed with Marshall and Jeffery.
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Thanks for the clip, VJ.
FWIW, that Nebraska CB that Jeffery is abusing is Alfonzo Dennard, a 200-lb CB who at the time was regarded as one of the top college CBs in the country and who probably would have been a 2nd round draft pick if he hadn't punched a cop in the face the week before the draft. As it turns out he just barely got drafted at all (7th round to the Patriots), but he's still a lot better than your typical Big XII CB and as you can see, extremely physical.
You can also see from the clip that South Carolina's QB was really not good at all. Inaccurate and indecisive. Jeffery won't have that problem with Cutler.
But what I really like about that is that Jeffery is getting hammered all the way down the field and he's giving back as good as he gets and still making the plays at the end. Between him and Marshall, we now have guys that will push back on physical CBs and when you start wearing those CBs out, good things happen for you down the field.
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Regarding Bobby Massie... below is an unattributed capsule report I found on another comment board. It is by far the least complimentary report I have read on him but if this was the prevailing opinion among NFL GMs it would explain why he fell much farther than expected by most of us:
Massie is not a very dynamic athlete and is a slow-footed mover. He is not a natural bender and is rigid in many of his movements. He labors to work to the second level and and struggles when sifting through traffic to engage his man. He relies on catching his man as a blocker in pass protection and will get in trouble with that technique at the next level.
In other words, it's not even that Massie was viewed as a "development" prospect, there were questions as to if there is even enough there to develop. That report paints the picture of a guy with the dimensions of an NFL OT but lacking the baseline athleticism to be effective at the next level. The inability to get to the next level in particular would have taken him out of contention for the Bears because Tice & Co. want O-Linemen who can get out and lead the way on running plays. And that includes the OTs as well as the interior guys.
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I think Emery's draft explanations would have gone over a little better with Bears fans if he hadn't pushed the Special Teams angle so hard.
It was one of the first things he brought up with McLellin, and he stressed it again with Hardin.
Now maybe I'm in the minority but I really don't want my team spending a 3rd round pick on a special teamer and I damn sure don't want my 1st rounder going there.
Reaching for Hardin by a full round (or more) and then justifying it on the basis of STs is a little hard to swallow given that Emery already acquired three bona fide ST studs in FA (Weems, Castanzo and Devin Thomas). How many ST aces do you need, anyway?
That 3rd round pick would have been a lot easier sell if it had gone to guy with a nice record of college production who could push a starter right away at a position where we're weak. I see Hardin with exactly 7 passes broken up and 1 INT in 32 college games and I'm thinking, this guy hasn't done much for all the opportunities he's had.
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If Hardin can stay healthy, he does have the measureables to be a stud S, and an upgrade over Major Wright. Just saying, IF. Maybe Emery said all the ST stuff so as not to rattle our two starting safteys.
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Hardin's college stats:
32 games, 105 tackles (3.3 avg. per game), 7 passes broken up, 1 INT.
That isn't very impressive production for the number of games played. I really struggle to see the justification of a mid-3rd round pick when I see numbers like that. If we're expecting him to be some TE shutdown stud or INT machine then his college career doesn't warrant those expectations. Maybe he can be coached-up but based on what our DB coach has gotten out of the 7 safeties we've drafted the last 7 years, I wouldn't count on that.
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Scouting report on Hardin. This publication had him as the 10th ranked FS.
A tall, physically put together kid with a strong looking frame. Looks the part more of a safety than corner at this stage. Plays primary on the boundary and displays a natural feel for the game in zone with a passion when asked to come up and play the run. Reads and reacts quickly to plays, keeps his head on a swivel and recognizes his run/pass keys. Takes good angles toward the football in pursuit vs. the run game, is a sound wrap-up guy who displays natural power and can create a snap into contact. Has the physicality to set the edge as well and works hard to shed blocks.
Isn't real quick when asked to play near the line and mirror initially vs. press coverage. Does a good job sitting into his stance, but isn't a natural bender and doesn't look real comfortable trying to keep his base down through his backpedal. Allows his pad level to rise, struggles to maintain balance in press when trying to get his hands on defenders and too often is just forced to open up his hips and bail. Doesn't do a great job staying low when asked to turn and run, loses a step in his transition and you can get behind him down the field. Lacks the type of second gear to make up for a false step. Better suited in zone coverage where he doesn't need to be as precise off the line. Is physical on contact and gets just average depth in his drop in cover two. Plays faster because he's able to decipher info quickly and get early jumps on the football. However, doesn't have a great burst out of his breaks, looks stiff and plays a bit high.
A stud special teams player. Works hard as a gunner, displays a passion for kick coverage and has the ability to make your team in that aspect alone.
Impression: Looks like a player who needs to transition to safety. I don't think he's a starter you can play in the deep half. However, if you're looking for a reserve in the box type safety who can add some talent to your special teams unit, Hardin is your guy.
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Quote from: yapper on Today at 11:54:31 am
Phill,
Look at the absolute garbage that Angelo gave Tice to work with.
Okay let's look at it. HE made the decision to move Webb, who was effective as a RT to LT and he looked bad.
The team drafted Gabe Carimi to play LT and he moved him to the RT spot.
That's on the coach and to me that was a bad decision. But of course you think he's the bomb.
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The fact that Cutler is even still upright and functioning despite that miserable collection of talent tells me Tice has got something on the ball. If we had kept our previous OL coach Cutler would be in a wheelchair mumbling incoherently by now. Tice isn't playing Webb at LT cause he wants to, he's playing him there cause Angelo never gave him anyone better.
If I recall didn't Cutler get sacked 9 times in the first half of a game a couple years ago? Tice was the OL coach then and Cutler had to sit out a game after that because of his brain scrambled from those hits.
And last year after the Saints loss the team had to constantly put max protection for Cutler during games.
But you just love Tice.
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Compare that to our stiff of a DB coach who has gotten at least one CB or one S (sometimes both) given to him EVERY DRAFT for the last 7 years and our D-Backfield is still sh*t.
Our defense is still formidable inspite of your dislike for our CB's. Without a good o-line the offense will stink period.
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And Emery must share my confidence in Tice's abilities otherwise he certainly would have upgraded the talent on that unit by now.
You wasn't saying that over the weekend.
Or maybe Emery doesn't know what the hell he's doing either. We'll see this season.
Jesus God Phil, are you still ragging on Yapper and insisting that Carimi is a LT? You never give up do you? You still harping on Zimmerman too?
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The more I research Hardin the more I suspect he could wind up being a Safety who plays LB in certain situations. What in college ball they would call a Rover. At 222 lbs he really doesn't have to bulk up much to play LB in a Tampa 2, which often runs LBs in the 220-230 range (Roach is listed at 234).
Much like I suspect McLellin will be a DE who moves to LB depending on situation and matchup.
Those selections are both puzzling at face value but if Lovie and Marinelli have been cooking up some new wrinkles for the D this season, then both of those players wind up making a lot more sense. And Emery wouldn't want to tip opposing OC's to that so he's gonna insist that McLellin will only be a DE and Hardin will be primarily a ST guy... until the season starts and it's shown to be otherwise.
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Yap, I doubt they are that creative.
I had thought though it wouldn't be too hard with McClellin to send out Peppers, Paea and Izzy and switch to a 3-4 from time to time. I'm not sure how much of a wrinkle that would be.
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I see nobody is commenting on the two OTs we got as UDFAs James Brown and A J Greene. Do they stand a chance to make the roster?
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Yap, I doubt they are that creative.
I agree. It would require not only creativity but flexibility, neither of which are Lovie/Marinelli characteristics.
But it's the only way I can see McLellin making sense as our draft pick, or for him to have any shot at success in Chicago.
I had thought though it wouldn't be too hard with McClellin to send out Peppers, Paea and Izzy and switch to a 3-4 from time to time.
The only problem with that scenario is we have no legitimate NT. The heaviest DT on our roster is Toeaina at barely 310. If it's 3rd and 7 and we go 3-4, the other team will just audible to a run play, crush Toeiana (or Paea) with a double-team and bulldoze it up the middle for 8.
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I think he is roughly the same size as Alex Brown and Mark Anderson who both performed pretty well for us at times. I hope Shea is closer to Mark Anderson's rookie year though. I also question him as the LDE but I figure Marinelli will move him around like he does Peppers to get the favorable matchup.
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Yeah... Alex Brown played at 6'3, 265 IIRC.
Mark Anderson I think was about 6'4, 265... which isn't that much bigger than McLellin but as I look at clips of both of them, Anderson looks like the much longer player. As I recall, Anderson's arms are unusually long whereas McLellin's are barely average for his height. That could be the difference I'm seeing.
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I see nobody is commenting on the two OTs we got as UDFAs James Brown and A J Greene. Do they stand a chance to make the roster?
Brown, maybe. His struggle will be that he is projected as an OG after playing OT in college, and the Bears roster is packed to the max with OGs already.
A J Greene seems to be kind of a weird cat... apparently he passed up an invitation to the combine and declined to participate in his school's Pro Day because he felt he wasn't really into playing football anymore.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-freeagent-ot-greene-hopes-to-make-music-with-bears-20120430,0,410509.story
He has size and ability but if he doesn't "want it" with every fiber of his being I don't see it happening for him.
Also, is he from Auburn, or Albany? I've seen both listed but I can't find a scouting report on him anywhere and obviously level of competition between those schools is pretty significant.
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Greene is supposedly from Auburn and they have pretty dang good OLines. I did go to the Auburn site and read up on him. Good size
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Here is what I've put together on Greene from various Web sites:
He is a 6'5, 300-ish pound OT who also has experience at DE. He had a season-ending ankle injury early in the 2010 season. The injury cost him his starting spot (at RT), which he had won in fall camp after barely seeing playing time his first three seasons. As previously reported, he declined an invitation to the combine and was present at Auburn's Pro Day as an observer only. Below is the one scouting report I could find:
Possesses better natural girth than his height/weight numbers would indicate, as he exhibits a broad lower half, which could easily add additional girth. Isn't a real natural bender though when asked to sit into his stance. Plays upright, bends at the waist and really struggles to gain leverage in pass protection. Isn't real compact with his footwork, seemed to get overextended initially on his power step, -side step- and struggled with his power/balance because of it. Is a natural lateral athlete who does have the ability to shuffle and slide in space through contact. However, struggled to stick to blocks in the pass game. Isn't a real compact/clean puncher either. Exposes his chest consistently, failed to routinely gain proper hand placement and could be overwhelmed on contact because of his high pad level.
Is inconsistent in the run game as well, struggled to maintain balance coming out of his stance and will overextend/whiff on blocks off his frame. Lacks ideal range when asked to pull and breakdown in space, seemed to always be a half step slow, causing him to lunge into blocks and routinely lunge into his man. Is better when asked to quick set and seal in the run game, as he possesses some coordination in tight areas
Has had a tough time staying on the field the past couple seasons and durability is a concern. Missed all but three games in 2010 with an ankle injury and missed time in 2009 with a shoulder.
Impression: Possesses a good-looking frame and some natural lateral ability in pass protection. But he struggles to gain leverage, lacks an ideal anchor and I can't see him holding up vs. power at the next level.
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If Greene has DL experience, at that size, it wouldn't surprise me if they give him a go at DE or maybe even DT.
I highlighted portions of the scouting report above that make me think his future in the NFL (if he has one), could be on the defensive side of the ball. He strikes me as a kid who is overthinking the aspects that go into OL play and needs to just let his athleticism be unleased without a lot of worry about technique. He might be better served just being put at DT and told to shed the guy in front of him and find the ball. As well, 6'5 300 is just about the prototypical frame for a 3-4 DE so maybe we stash him on the practice squad just in case our D takes on that look next season.
It took him a long time to establish himself at Auburn and then when he finally did that, the injuries hit. And the ankle injury was supposedly pretty nasty so that could be a reason his desire to keep playing isn't that high. Apparently he's really big into music as well so football isn't the only thing he's got going on.
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With a technique teaching coach like Tice maybe all hope for Greene isnt lost
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I would be interested to know what kind of sell job Emery put on Greene to get him to sign with the Bears when he wasn't sure he even wanted to keep playing at all.
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Emery told him that he knew a good music agent he would hook him up with in the offseason :-)
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Maybe the kid- being a college student and all, realized after going to the placement office that he could crank out some serious jack being a lineman as compared to a career as IT goon. It happens.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/01/rashaan-salaam-offers-some-advice-on-how-not-to-be-a-bust/
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Salaam, Enis, Benson.
What a tragic string of 1st round Fail. If the Bears never take a RB again in the 1st round I won't mind at all.
Of those three though I'm the most sympathetic to Salaam. He had by far the most talent of the three, and was drafted into a bad situation during the dregs of the Wanny regime. IIRC he was also unusually young at the time... I think he may have only been 20 when he was drafted. Not saying he would have done that much better if he'd gone somewhere else, but a 20-year old kid brought into a major market team with incompetent coaching, little veteran leadership and enormous pressure to carry a bad offense, doesn't have a great chance of success.
Enis and Benson, OTOH, were total flakes and frauds who I pretty much despise with every ounce of my being.
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Enis and Benson were both flakes, the types that strike me as thinking the rules don't apply to them.
Enis did look pretty good before he tore up his knee. Benson showed flashes at time both here and in Cincy but never the type of back we needed.
What I won't ever forget is on Madden (whichever console I had at the time) it listed him as Curtis P.Enis :-)
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Salaam liked weed too much to have any success
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Last I heard Enis was running the fork lift on 2nd shift in a garage door mfg. in Ohio, and Cedric is tuning up for his career after football, a taste tester for Grey Goose, 8am to midnight, 6 days a week. Doesn't pay as well, but he won't give a damn.
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The article about Salaam says he didnt have any discipline, and just partied and hung out with the wrong people. That is a bad combo for a 20 year old star athlete. Just saying.
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Yeah it's pretty easy to play what-if with Salaam. Those Wanny teams were pretty much devoid of any quality leadership from the HC right down through the players and its very easy for me to see how a kid like Salaam could have gone off the rails in that environment.
If he had had his head on straight, stayed healthy and fixed his fumble-itis, we wouldn't have spent that high 1st round pick on Enis and depending on who we had taken instead of him, who knows what the Bears would look like today?
Same deal with Alonzo Spellman... another enormously gifted player who the Bears drafted young (age 20), and whose personal issues ultimately derailed what could have been a tremendous career.
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I see nobody is commenting on the two OTs we got as UDFAs James Brown and A J Greene. Do they stand a chance to make the roster?
Brown, maybe. His struggle will be that he is projected as an OG after playing OT in college, and the Bears roster is packed to the max with OGs already.
I've read reports that he could play guard and others say he could play tackle. Also, many predicted he'd go as early as 3rd round. Why did he not even get drafted?
Could be a PS guy that you hide for a year while you develop. And there is a chance he could be our swing tackle - that chance would be slim or none...and slim left town.
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I've heard rumblings of off-field issues that caused the Troy kid to fall out of the draft. No specifics or independent confirmation, though.
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Enis was eccentric...had a bad agent when he signed with the Bears. But he gave everything he had when he played. Nobody questioned him after he got going his rookie year - he was bowling over people. The injury he suffered late in the year was much worse than was let on. It took away what little speed he had.
Spellman has some sort of chemical imbalance that required medication. He went to Dallas, and while medicated, was a force on their Dline. But it was at DT not DE. As a DE he had one move - the bull rush. Gave it all he had though.
Many here were ready to give the starting HB job to Benson over Thomas Jones. Jones danced to much in the hole while Benson barrelled throught it. I remember the arguments. But Benson was quite productive during the SB season as a backup to TJ. But that Super Bowl where he fumlbed and got knocked out was the beginning of the end for him in chicago. Then he had a couple off the field incidents which I never thought were that significant and the Bears decided to go in a different direction.
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CHICAGO BEARS ... 28th against the pass.
Safety and two Conerbacks taken ... addressing the issue.
Two are cannon fodder.
CHICAGO BEARS ... one of the most gaddammed motherfuuucking SACKED QB's in the NFL.
That issue was addessed by drafting DeCastro or Reiff.
Wait a goddammed motherfuuucking minute here !!
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Hopefully with our personnel additions on both the DL and DB we will see dramatic improvement in our pass D. Some creative new wrinkles in the tired old scheme wouldnt hurt either.
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Hopefully with our personnel additions on both the DL and DB we will see dramatic improvement in our pass D. Some creative new wrinkles in the tired old scheme wouldnt hurt either.
Tice better have his shiit wired like an 18 wheeler on the downside of the Rockies with the asbestos burned off of the brake pads.
The JAKE BRAKE better kick in.
OFFENSIVE LINE .. you better fuuuckin HAVE ONE.
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Tired scheme? Cover two?
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Hardin's college stats:
32 games, 105 tackles (3.3 avg. per game), 7 passes broken up, 1 INT.
That isn't very impressive production for the number of games played.
Those numbers were from Hardin playing CB - maybe that's why they project him at safety...a safety with strong safety size and free safety speed.
I don't think he was drafted simply to take Corey Graham's spot on special teams - even though that's probably where he's going to start out.
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Hopefully with our personnel additions on both the DL and DB we will see dramatic improvement in our pass D. Some creative new wrinkles in the tired old scheme wouldnt hurt either.
The cover 2 can be very effective with a better pass rush BUT better personnel at DB and DLine will let the Bears mix in more man defense. I think last year they probably played more cover 2 than they did the year before.
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I don't think he was drafted simply to take Corey Graham's spot on special teams - even though that's probably where he's going to start out.
It seems like every safety drafted over the last decade has started at one time or another during their rookie season. Hardin will start, it's just a matter of when.
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Hardin will start, it's just a matter of when.
I wouldn't doubt that. Wright and Conte both have been less than durable, and other than Steltz we pretty much have nothing behind them.
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I have relatives who see all of the Oregon State games.
They say when Hardin played the opposing offense threw to the other side.
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How often was that? Sheesh the guy was always injured. I still cant believe spending a 3rd on a player who never plays
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I have relatives who see all of the Oregon State games.
They say when Hardin played the opposing offense threw to the other side.
That would explain the low numbers. The stats credit Hardin for 32 games at Oregon State but I don't know if he started all of them or was more a situational / spot guy. If he was just a spot guy that would explain the lack of stats as well.
The other thing I read someplace was that something like 15 other teams were interested in this guy. That may have spooked Emery into taking him as high as he did. I hope he was worth it cause we passed on some pretty good players at other positions of arguably higher need.
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Here are the guys (throughout round 3) that we could have had had we not taken Hardin at 16:
16(79) Bears Hardin, Brandon FS 6'3" 217 Oregon St. 62.0
17(80) Cardinals Fleming, Jamell CB 5'11" 206 Oklahoma 83.5
18(81) Cowboys Crawford, Tyrone DE 6'4" 275 Boise St. 77.5
19(82) Titans Martin, Mike DT 6'1" 306 Michigan 74.5
20(83) Bengals Sanu, Mohamed WR 6'2" 211 Rutgers 80.5
21(84) Ravens (From Falcons) Pierce, Bernard RB 6'0" 218 Temple 71.0
22(85) Lions Bentley, Dwight CB 5'10" 182 Louisiana-Lafayette 73.5
23(86) Steelers Spence, Sean LB 5'11" 231 Miami 80.2
24(87) Browns (From Broncos) Hughes, John DT 6'2" 309 Cincinnati 48.2
25(88) Eagles (From Texans) Foles, Nick QB 6'5" 243 Arizona 71.0
26(89) Saints Hicks, Akiem DE 6'5" 318 Regina 50.2
27(90) Patriots (From Packers) Bequette, Jake DE 6'5" 274 Arkansas 66.0
28(91) Falcons (From Ravens) Holmes, Lamar T 6'5" 323 Southern Miss 50.5
29(92) Colts (From 49ers) Hilton, T.Y. WR 5'10" 183 Florida International 74.5
30(93) Bengals (From Patriots) Thompson, Brandon DT 6'2" 314 Clemson 84.5
31(94) Giants Hosley, Jayron CB 5'10" 178 Virginia Tech 84.0
32(95) Raiders (Compensatory selection) Bergstrom, Tony OT 6'5" 313 Utah 59.0
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Nobody on that list jumps out at me.
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Mike Martin could have helped us. He's short but strong as an ox and would have plugged right in where Anthony Adams left off. Or we could have hedged our bets on McLellin by taking his DL mate from Boise State.
Neither of those guys would have given us what Hardin presumably will on STs, though, so whatever. We'll see if he turns into anything. The physical ability is there no question but same was true of Adam Archuleta.
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The physical ability is there no question but same was true of Adam Archuleta.
The similarities between Hardin and Archuletta are amazing. First, they both played safety in college. Uh wait, Hardin didn't. They both were #1 draft choices, all conference players and conference defensive players of the year. Uh...I guess that was just Archuleta.
Ok, let' see...they were both over 200 lbs...and they were both white. Virtual clones!
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I get it, Dallas. You love the Hardin pick, I don't. :D
We'll see how it turns out.
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Now then, if Hardin can do this on a regular basis, I'm willing to change my tune.
He can start with Rogers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B8EEWiq_c4
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I get it, Dallas. You love the Hardin pick, I don't.
I can't say I loved any draft picks. I was surprised by the McClellin pick and the Hardin pick because I really hadn't heard much at all about either. I liked the Jeffery pick though as I'd seen him play in college.
Ask me again in a year or two.
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Agreed on the Alshon Jeffrey pick. He's actually the one out of our 1st 3 picks that I think has the least potential to make Emery look bad. Anyone who downs Jeffrey wasn't watching SEC ball 2 yrs ago.
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My take on the Hardin pick;
Seattle reportedly had him for a meeting and was interested, what round we don't know.
Apparently he was very good in 2010. I guess he got burned a couple of times but QB's largely avoided him.
I guess the choice was Hardin with very good size and speed and upside or a shorter slower but more proven safety.
I can't see it in the third round though.
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The biggest problem with Hardin is two fold; his health and why take him so early in the draft? We've already had way too many health issues with our safeties as it is and so we add another to the mash unit?!? We should have taken more of a sure thing at 3 and gotten him later. The one decent thing or positive I can see is that like Peke said, his injuries haven't been to his knees or legs. He can run still. But if he goes in and blows himself up year after year with monster hits, he'll end up just like Brownie and we'll have our hearts broken when the kid with SOO much promise gets released once again.....
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Safety in the 3rd round just really surprised me. I thought it would be a DT for sure considering we're so thin there.
Looks to me like a pretty big vote of no-confidence by Emery in either Major Wright or Chris Conte and I can't say I blame him on that, but the fact that he missed all of last season with an injury was a major WTF moment for me after Emery had gone on record saying we weren't gonna be drafting medical cases anymore.
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this franchise has pissed me off so much with their ineptitude.
my needs are simple: get us some talent.
if this safety has a productive ten year plus career with the bears no one is going to care which round he was drafted.
we all want players that are going to make this team more successful so that we don't waste our sundays cleaning garages out of anger. if the guy is "supposed to be" a 5th round value and we "reach" and take him at three but he works for us?....so what. we got him.
this emery sounds like a real talent scout.
and the kid pushed how many reps at the combine?
his shoulder sounds fine.
now lets get to the business of jamming it up the packer's azz already!
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nice.
censored in my first post.
and i missed the trib board..................
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alshon jeffeys looks like a beast. how much faster will he be in the pros if they can get him some pants that fit?
also, i would have liked to see him break some tackles but i will settle for a guy who can catch. how long has that been missing??!?!?!
this is the type of receiver culter loves.
halas hall has been listening. that bodes well.
lets hope that safety is the next john lynch.
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nice.
censored in my first post.
Get used to it. "Gam-ble" will get censored (hence the hyphen) so just get used to that right now.
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Re the Safety position, yeah, we're going on almost a decade of taking a safety in every draft and we haven't gotten it right yet. Hopefully that changes this year cause since Mike Brown went south it has been a black hole back there.
I'm not sure if Angelo is to be more reviled for spending so many picks on one position with so little return, or for not spending picks on the OL at all, but the deficiencies in both units have cost us many games.
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Safety in the 3rd round just really surprised me. I thought it would be a DT for sure considering we're so thin there.
I think most would agree but you wouldn't want Emery just taking the best DT available, (think Marcus Harrison), when he had someone at a different position that was ranked higher.
But we do still have a spot open for that 4th DT and the 3rd OT as well.
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I'm hoping there will be some decent veterans at DT and OT that are training camp cuts but are still good enough for us to bring on board. That's about our last chance to shore up those positions other than a trade.
Regarding the 3rd OT, technically we already have our 3 top OTs, it's just that one of them has been playing OG (C. Williams). So since we've already got 2 or 3 OGs who could plug in for Williams if he wound up moving back outside, Emery and Tice may consider us set there.
Still would like to see a bigger body (315+) at that 4th DT position to plug up the middle and take on double-teams. I know Lovie doesn't like widebody DTs but only having 1 inside guy who's over 300 lbs is asking for trouble, especially on run downs.
Right now Chicagobears.com is showing only two DTs on the roster beyond the guys we're all familiar with:
- Ronnie Cameron, 6'2 304, R (UDFA), Old Dominion
- Jordan Miller 6'2 315, 1st year, Southern
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Regarding the 3rd OT, technically we already have our 3 top OTs, it's just that one of them has been playing OG (C. Williams). So since we've already got 2 or 3 OGs who could plug in for Williams if he wound up moving back outside, Emery and Tice may consider us set there.
That's a possibility.
One option is Chris Williams becomes the swing tackle and backup guard. If that's the case then this would probably be his last year as a Bear (assuming his contract is up in 2012).
Another option is he's the swing tackle and the starting LG - which means if there's an injury at OT then there are 2 moves made on the O-line.
And of course there's your option where CWilliams wins the starting LT job - which I think is the most unlikely option of them all.
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Still would like to see a bigger body (315+) at that 4th DT position to plug up the middle and take on double-teams. I know Lovie doesn't like widebody DTs but only having 1 inside guy who's over 300 lbs is asking for trouble, especially on run downs.
Bears usually have 2 big DTs (Toeaina and Adams) and 2 or 3 3 technique tackles (Okoye, Melton, Paea). So there is an opening for the big DT - maybe we bring back Marcus Harrison?
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I dont remember Harrison being that big.
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IIRC Harrison was listed at 310 or 315 but had recurring problems staying in shape so his actual weight may have been higher. In any event he was never very effective at any weight. I'm not even sure he's still in the league and it would shock me if Emery even considered bringing him back.
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I doubt he would bring him back either. My guess is he would bring in somebody cut elsewhere for depth
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One option is Chris Williams becomes the swing tackle and backup guard. If that's the case then this would probably be his last year as a Bear (assuming his contract is up in 2012).
This is my preferred option but then I'd also like to see us bring him back on a new contract that's commensurate with other veteran backups (as opposed to the franchise LT money he's been making to date). IMO he's not a legit starter at any position but he's a solid sub at several and those guys are worth keeping around if you're not breaking the bank to do it. He seems to have a very good rapport with Tice and if Tice winds up being extended beyond this season then it would only make sense to keep him around... but nothing says we have to keep handing him a starting job and we certainly don't need to be paying him as much as we have been.
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I expect if we bench Williams, he'll test the market.
I'd love it if he could play LT similar to the level of John Tait and let Webb be the swing guy.
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IMHO he has proved he cant play LT. Williams has shown he can handle LG. I am not knowledgible to know when Williams contract is up. But that thought brings up another question. If say his contract is about up then that makes even more sense to have gotten somebody in the pipeline to be the long term answer. Why didnt Emery make a move in the draft? Emery seems to be a very prepared guy
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If say his contract is about up then that makes even more sense to have gotten somebody in the pipeline to be the long term answer. Why didnt Emery make a move in the draft? Emery seems to be a very prepared guy
And this may be where the Chilo Rachal signing comes into play.
He's gigantic, and someone on the Niners must have considered him a pretty promising prospect to take him with a high 2nd round pick. Yet he was benched by Harbaugh and run out of town with nearly as much rejoicing in San Fran as Bears fans did when Emery pulled the plug on Omiyale.
I think Rachal could go anywhere from being a training camp cut to a surprise Day One starter. It all depends on how fast he picks up on what Tice wants his O-Linemen to do, as he is by far and way the most impressive interior O-Lineman on our roster from a purely physical perspective.
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The Trib says the Bears have cut the former Boise State safety Venable. They could end up regretting that
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The Trib says the Bears have cut the former Boise State safety Venable. They could end up regretting that.
In other words, they're going all-in on Hardin.
McLellin probably wasn't too happy to see his former teammate get the axe, though.
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In other words, they're going all-in on Hardin.
That was my assumption. They might be calling Venable back come the first practice. :o :o ;D
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If I were a Bears 2nd or 3rd stringer that Angelo had brought in... and I played a position that Emery drafted last weekend... I'd be getting really nervous right now.
Venable isn't the only Angelo signing that will be feeling the blade in the next few weeks. I'm thinking Corey Wootten's time may be running short unless he absolutely kills it in the OTAs and minicamps. If he looks gimpy at all, he's gone.
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Very likely but I expect him to make the TC roster for sure beings we are very short on the DL. They need more TC fodder
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Venable was cut last season and was only re-instated because Walters got hurt. Venable is a hitter but extremely slow for a DB. Right now Venable would be 6th in line at safety...plus they signed a couple UDFA safeties they probably want to take a look at.
It basically gives him a shot to catch on with another team.
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The Tribune article says that the Bears coaches did not consider Venable a viable option at S at all. So he was going to have to stick strictly as a special teamer. With all the new bodies Emery has brought in to play STs primarily or exclusively, an Angelo holdover like Venable (who was barely hanging on in the first place) had no chance.
But like Dallas said, doesn't mean he won't catch on with another team.
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This doesn't seem to have been very widely reported, but according to chicagobears.com Alshon Jeffery is the 2nd leading WR of all time for career yardage in the SEC, with 3,042. And that's only about 50 yds shy of the all-time SEC leader in that category.
When you consider some of the WRs that have played SEC ball that's pretty impressive.
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I believe we have the all time and 2nd all time leading wr from sec on our team then...I am thinking E. Bennett is #1.
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And if Jeffrey would have kept his weight down and had a decent QB this year he would have been #1. He also wouldn't have been around for even our 1st round pick!
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I agree Nav. I personally think he has the potential to be rookie of the year. I am very excited about Alshon. Probably would have easily been top 10 pick with a good QB on his team.
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Lets hope there are enough balls to go around to Jeffery and Marshall and Forte to keep everyone happy. Of course if we are winning hopefully that wont be a problem.
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Grading the (2008) NFL Draft - Four Years Later (http://thesidelineview.com/columns/draft/grading-nfl-draft-four-years-later)
...of the 252 players drafted, only 13 players have made just one Pro Bowl. Outside of that, only 41 players drafted in this draft are projected as starters in the 2012 season.
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Just looking at that is terrible. Not too many teams do really well in the draft. After four years, most teams lose half or more of their draft picks, usually more. That means of the selections we made this past week, over half will be gone in four years.
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FWIW, 2008 was Emery's last year as director of college scouting for the Atlanta Falcons. While Matt Ryan headlined this class, ATL still has 6 out of 11 picks on the roster.
Here's the players (offense (http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2012/4/19/2960543/prospector-for-gold-the-phil-emery-drafts-part-2)/defense (http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2012/4/18/2953803/phil-emerys-drafts-part-1)) drafted during Emery's tenure as an area scout for the Bears and director of college scouting for the Falcons and Chiefs.
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Hopefully with our personnel additions on both the DL and DB we will see dramatic improvement in our pass D. Some creative new wrinkles in the tired old scheme wouldnt hurt either.
The cover 2 can be very effective with a better pass rush BUT better personnel at DB and DLine will let the Bears mix in more man defense. I think last year they probably played more cover 2 than they did the year before.
A better pass rush makes any and every defense better.. The cover who stinks!
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It's amusing hearing those great TV gurus pontificating on thow great drafted players will be helping their new teams. In their minds they don't seem to take into account that most of the draftees will fall short of expectations and a good share of them will be busts. There are some real "homers", also.
I thought that NFLN had fired Sapp. Sorry to see thathet is back again.
Check back in a couple of years and we will see who actually had the best drafts.
IMO all four NFLN teams drafted well. We shall see.
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I heard an interview yesterday from an analyst on Pro Football Weekly. He said of the Bears draft that McClellin is a solid, unspectacular pick, but he forsees him evolving into Urlacher's role in time. Similar mention in an article today, McClellin has very similar height/weight numbers and 40 time. But c'mon, Urlacher?
We shall see, I think these draft players get overhyped on both sides of the coin. 13 players out of 252? That is a big miss ratio if you are expecting top talent in round 1 to say the least. I wonder how many of those 13 were first rounders. That's why I laugh when we get all riled up about this guy versus that guy. Get on the field and make your judgements of whether it was a good draft or a bad one. And then there are injuries...
He went on to assess that he didn't like the Jeffrey pick (can't get seperation), and skipped over the Hardin pick. He said of the Bear's drafte class, Evan Rodriguez was likely our best pick and will be a mismatch for opponents.
It's funny, the day 3 of the draft I was at work, the Bears had already passed over Massey in the 3rd round to take the injury risk Hardin (who I would agree, if he can put up 20+ reps at the bench, that broken shoulder is fine). I remember the handwringing about that pick. So I am walking by the tv, and note the Bears pick is in and they select Evan Rodriguez, FB. FB? Is that Facebook, it can't be fullback?! lol, why did they list him at fullback? Anyway, I can only imagine the coronaries happening at the time over that pick - while Massey was still on the board. So what made all of the draft gurus like Massey better than all of the General Managers?
Time will tell, whether we got it right or we missed. And if it is 2008 redux, we won't be alone in the boat...
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I think McClellin could be better than Urlacher, if he does in fact possess the abilty to shed blocks, something Urlacher doesnt really do well. I would like to see how he moves sideline to sideline though first.
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If we drafted the 6-3 261 lb Whitney Mercilus would there be all this talk of him moving to MLB too?
McClellan will be played at DE and if and only if he's a total failure at that position will he be considered for linebacker, and most likely it will be OLB, not MLB.
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I believe Urlacker played a bit of OLB before he settled in at MLB.
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Jauron had Urlacher on the strong side, covering the tight end at the beginning...
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The McLellin as LB talk has been floated because most scouts had him pegged as a 3-4 OLB and there is skepticism whether he can be effective as a 4-3 DE at 6'3, 260. Especially at LDE where the Bears intend to play him. In fact, immediately after the pick was announced I saw some bloggers speculating that the Bears were actually drafting him for another team... that's how much the McLellin pick took Bears watchers by surprise.
On its face the pick didn't make sense for the Bears, and projecting him as a LB was the easiest way to rationalize Emery's thinking. Another camp of speculation says that Emery drafted McLellin with an eye toward switching the Bears to a 3-4 after he gets rid of Lovie.
As far as the Urlacher comparisons, well, they're both high-motor guys from cow towns. They're roughly the same size (listed, anyway), and they're white. That's about where the similarities end.
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I'd add that both appear to be hard workers that don't say a whole lot and they both have good speed.
Urlacher was likely a little faster/quicker and McClellan is likely stronger and better at getting off blocks (than Urlacher was early on).
Urlacher is better at coverage and McClellan is better at rushing the passer.
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Biggest diff I see is that McLellin has pass rush skills and Urlacher doesn't.
For all of his strengths #54 hasn't ever had a lot of success getting to the QB (even on blitzes). 9 sacks in the last 6 seasons combined, and none last year. I know a certain amount of that can be coached but overwhelmingly I think you either have a feel for pass-rushing or you don't. Emery says McLellin "has it" so we'll see. At LDE McLellin will be giving up 3-5 inches and 50-60 lbs to the OT across from him every game... plus potentially taking on chips or double-teams... so he's got his work cut out for him.
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The tackle will push him outside and they will run behind him. They used to do that to Dent too.
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I think that is one advantage of our scheme, He only has to cover one gap. He doesn't have to stand the tackle up and try to figure out which lane to take. If he is going outside of the tackle then Roach/Urlacher should have the running lane.
I still think he would do better at RDE. Maybe they are thinking that his speed will be hard for the stiffer/slower RTs of the league to block, especially if they get a dose of Izzy first.
I expect early on though he may mostly rotate in on passing downs anyway.
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I expect early on though he may mostly rotate in on passing downs anyway.
Generally I'm of the belief that your 1st round draft pick should be a three-down starter from Day One. And even more so if he is a Top 20 pick.
That being said, I realize that the DL in Lovie's scheme is by definition a rotation deal and on that basis alone McLellin won't be a 3-down player. It's also a deal where McLellin will probably be more effective as a spot player vs. an every-down guy and it will keep him fresher down the stretch (which is especially important for rookies who tend to hit the wall about the 12th week when their college season would have been ending). If you consider a scenario where he rotates with Izzy (and/or Wootten), well that's two completely different types of players you're throwing at the same OT and just that switch-up alone should give us some advantage on the left edge.
So yeah, we probably spent a Top 20 pick on a spot player but if he delivers on the downs he is in there, that's preferable to keeping him out there every down and having him be less effective.
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I am thinking after seeing a lot of video of him he could see quite a bit of action, not just on 3rd down. He is going to be a lot like Matthews. You are going to have to acount for him wherever he is on the field
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My only concern with playing "Where's Waldo" with McLellin is that if Marinelli guesses wrong too often, he'll wind up scheming McLellin right out of the chance to make impact plays... which is the whole reason Emery drafted him in the first place.
The Packers get away with moving Clay Matthews around because Dom Capers is one of the most creative and flexible DCs in the league and has a tremendous feel for in-game adaptations. Marinelli, not so much.
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That points to a coaching staff change next year. A failure to use talent provided properly would be grounds for a huge change at seasons end
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No question.
Emery allocated two of our top 3 draft picks to defense (and 4 of our 6 draft picks overall), plus upgrading depth at LB and CB with FA signings. AND extended Briggs' contract before the draft to ensure he's a happy camper going into this season.
With the one exception of DT depth, the pieces are in place talent wise. It's time for Lovie and Marinelli to get the Bears D back to playing up to its reputation, especially vs. the pass which was barely average last year and downright embarrassing at times. If they can't, Emery has all the reason he needs to go a different direction with the coaching. And the same holds true with Tice on the other side of the ball.
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I could see that too but unless there is dramatic improvement in the effectiveness of the OLine all the improvements to the WRs is for naught.
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Frpm the beginning it seemed to me that the Packers and Bears swapping their first round picks made more sense.
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Yup. There were a few mocks that had Perry going to the Bears and many more mocks that had McLellin going to the Packers.
I don't think I saw a single mock draft that ever had McLellin going to the Bears, and I looked at a lot of them.
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Did you check out NFL Network's Michael Lombardi?
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/mock-drafts/michael-lombardi/130112
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Nope I must have missed the Lombardi mock.
He got Rd 1 closer than a lot of other guys did.
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At LDE McLellin will be giving up 3-5 inches and 50-60 lbs to the OT across from him every game...
There you go again with your size hangup. There are numerous 4-3 DEs and even more 3-4 OLBs that are McClellan's size and line up against these monster OTs and hold their own. Weight is a factor in any player but so are speed and explosion.
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Well however McLellin turns out I think we'll know pretty early on.
He seems like one of those guys that's ahead of a lot of the other prospects as far as technique (which Emery said himself), but also doesn't have a ton of upside.
In other words, if he does great out of the gate then barring injury we have a stud DE for the next few years. But if his college success doesn't translate against NFL OTs early on then we may be in trouble cause I'm not sure he's the type that will be that much better after a couple years in the league than he is now.
If he can pull some of the double-teams away from Peppers and still get 8-10 sacks plus the occasional pass pressure/knockdown, TFL or forced fumble, then we've definitely got a keeper and I hope that's how it turns out. That's the kind of impact a Top 20 pick is supposed to have and which too many of Angelo's first round picks failed to deliver.
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If he can't hack it at DE he can become LB and do well there.
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Just in time to demolish the Iran nuke sites.
http://www.gizmag.com/massive-ordnance-penetrator- (http://www.gizmag.com/massive-ordnance-penetrator-)
The U.S. Air Force has just taken delivery of the first GBU-57A/B (Massive Ordnance Penetrator). It weighs 30,000 lb and will penetrate 200 ft of hardened concrete BEFORE it goes off. If you are reading this from an underground nuclear facility in Iran, might we suggest some extended sick leave is (or soon will be) in order.
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From what I am reading its not ready for deployment. The Israelis are supposedly wanting to destroy the complex in October before the US elections thus it might not be available. The most interesting new gizmo is the new unmanned bomber
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Wshful, I think your statement should read like this....
"Obama is supposedly wanting to destroy the complex in October before the US elections....in order to help he re-election bid."
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That wasnt what i meant, but likely true
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I just realized Packrat derailed the draft thread again :-)
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Interesting article on some guys Emery could have taken in the draft, but chose not to:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1176731-five-players-the-chicago-bears-will-regret-passing-on-in-the-2012-nfl-draft
Unless and until guys like Hardin and Rodriguez show they're the real deal it's hard to argue against the case this writer makes.
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Thompson was the name that stood out when I posted the guys the Bears passed up in round 3. Yeah, we could have used him especially with our depth issues at DT. But he's not a pass rusher and probably not as valued as highly to the Bears. Bears see Hardin as a future starter but arguments could be made for both players.
Massie probably could have made the team as a backup RT - but can he play left as a swing tackle? Unless one of the UDFAs surprise I think Chris Williams is going to be the swing tackle on the Bears.
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Unless one of the UDFAs surprise I think Chris Williams is going to be the swing tackle on the Bears.
Unless he is given the chance to compete at LT and somehow wins out. Then Webb would be the swing tackle. Not what some people would like to see (and would be a bit of an embarrassment for Tice and Lovie after how much they've talked-up Webb)... but I think it's a possibility.
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I'd love to see Webb as the swing and Chris Williams doing well at LT. It would give have our 2 1st rounders as our bookends.
Webb would be ideal as swing.
I'm still thinking we see marked improvement from Webb with a full offseason learning LT.
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There's not many guys in the league who "look the part" of a franchise LT any better than Webb. 6'7, 333 and wingspan for days. It's all right there, just like you'd draw it up for a 1st round prospect and I've even heard a couple of people make the argument that physically, Webb is a better prospect than any OT who was available in the draft this year and that includes Kalil.
What's gonna make or break him as a viable starting LT is if he can get his footwork up to snuff. The lack of quality competition in his college career was really exposed last season... much more on the left side than on the right where he had done reasonably well (albeit with more help from TEs) as a rookie the year before.
He also has to really sharpen his in-game focus and awareness cause he had too many penalties and mental breakdowns (blitz pickups, etc.) last year.
One other thing to keep in mind. Entering his 3rd NFL season, Webb is still just 23 years old. That gives hope that he still has room to mature, not so much in size but in agility and balance. He may still be growing into his frame and when that's done we could see a pretty significant improvement in his technique. That's where Tice appears to be placing his bets, anyway.
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Yeah thats what I believe Tice is banking on
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I'd love to see Webb as the swing and Chris Williams doing well at LT. It would give have our 2 1st rounders as our bookends.
Webb would be ideal as swing.
I'm still thinking we see marked improvement from Webb with a full offseason learning LT.
I would prefer to have our 2 bookend tackles be younger guys from recent drafts. Imagine those 2 guys there for the next 8 years or so.
I am hoping Webb really progresses in his 3rd year - having a 7th round draft choice start at LT is almost unheard of. It's a demanding position. You want a guy with a lot of length yet he has to have the quickest feet of anyone on the O-line to match up with the fasted d-lineman and 3-4 OLBs.
I like Yapper's comments about Webb maturity. And a big part of that is the mental aspect. Tice said that Webb is the biggest guy on the field and needs to play like it.
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This thought occurred to me yesterday:
Webb's biggest problem is smallish, quick, high-motor rush ends.
Shea McLellin's biggest problem (potentially) transitioning to the NFL is that he will be facing OTs who are bigger and better athletes than he ever faced at Boise State.
J'Marcus, meet Shea. Shea, meet J'Marcus. I know McLellin is projected as LDE so positionally, he'd be working against Carimi (not Webb) in practice. But I think it could make both Webb and McLellin a lot better if Lovie got them significant reps against each other this preseason.
In fact, McLellin's skill set makes him the perfect guy to impersonate Clay Matthews in practice which in and of itself should make our OL preps that much more productive.
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In fact, McLellin's skill set makes him the perfect guy to impersonate Clay Matthews in practice which in and of itself should make our OL preps that much more productive.
Absolutely agree. Great point.
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If any OL that we passed on goes to the PRO-BOWL in their rookie year ... >:(
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If any OL that we passed on goes to the PRO-BOWL in their rookie year ...
Pretty sure McClellin won't be. It would be nice to be wrong on that, though.
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If McClellan gets constant pressure and 8-10 sacks this year(and every year) in spot duty I'll consider that a win.
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If McClellan gets constant pressure and 8-10 sacks this year(and every year) in spot duty I'll consider that a win.
That's a fair expectation. With Peppers drawing double- and triple-teams that's not asking too much from our DE on the other side.
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That should be expected
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If McClellan gets constant pressure and 8-10 sacks this year(and every year) in spot duty I'll consider that a win.
In spot duty? I guess the belief is he can't be a full time player.
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Pretty much any DE on the Bears is a spot player by definition because of how Marinelli rotates 3 or 4 DEs across the two positions. Other than Peppers who plays an extraordinarily high percentage of the snaps.
McClellin will share time with Izzy and as a result I would be surprised if he plays more than 50 to 60% of the total snaps at LDE... any claims by Lovie to the contrary. The trick for McClellin will be to have a high impact with those limited opportunities. If he's unable to do that -- from the get-go and on a consistent basis -- it will definitely be open to debate whether he was worth a Top 20 draft pick.
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IMHO a top 20 pick needs to be a day one starter.
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IMHO a top 20 pick needs to be a day one starter.
That's my position too. It's just that for Bears DEs, "starter" still means you only play about half the snaps... two-thirds max.
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But the bottom line is experience. When he begins to have success when he is in there he will get more reps. At least thats what I hope the Bears coaching staff wakes up to and quickly
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There really wasn't much of a rotation last year at DE as our early DE replacements fizzled out. Remember Nick Reed? There was another guy too that only lasted a game and then he was cut. They picked up Chauncey Davis and he was decent. Wooten played some but was largely invisible.
As for McClellin, you'd like to see him push Idonijie, but if he doesn't win the LDE job it doesn't mean he's not worthy of his top 20 draft spot. Fortunately, DE is one of the few positions where you can work a guy in gradually and increase his snaps based on production.
Will he be more like a Spellman or Thierry, or more like Dent, or more like a Trace Armstrong? Nobody knows.
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Wootten's a guy that's got to be approaching this season as make or break.
It wouldn't surprise me if he was a training camp cut UNLESS he comes in 100% healthy and starts making splash plays in practice from Day One. From what I've seen of Emery, later-round Angelo draft picks with long medical records are going to be pretty easy cuts for him to make.
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Wooten better be inb the shape of his life and rub his rabbits foot constantly he doesnt get hurt. ;D
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I would predict that McClellin will be a starter during 2012.
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Getting near that time of the season ... the sixth and seventh round picks were cut.
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If the Urlacher thingy posted that Urlacher may never be healthy this year this could be the beginning of the end of Urlacher's career. If so we might already have Urlacher's replacement here in Shea McClellin
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Hopefully a good enough MLB falls to the 2nd round.
I've got a feeling LT is still gonna be Need #1 no matter how the Urlacher thing plays out.
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Man I sure hope so. Man do we sure need a LT badly
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Oh yea of little faith, we have Jamarcus Webb. LOL.
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Oh yea of little faith, we have Jamarcus Webb. LOL.
You lack faith in a seventh round pick at LT?
Wheres your BEARS sense way of doing things?
If Cutler is forever blindsided ... he'll get up and shake it off.
Like he did last season ... played all 16 games. ;D
Cutler is so good we dont even NEED a LT.
We'll just have Hester block.
Ask the front office ... they know best. :-[
The Vikings took a LT in the first round ... dummys !
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Cutler is so good we dont even NEED a LT.
Are you Jerry Angelo? Seriously! That was their mentality. And its so crazy and wrong.
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Cutler is so good we dont even NEED a LT.
Are you Jerry Angelo? Seriously! That was their mentality. And its so crazy and wrong.
Hey I didnt invent it ... they did.
But it looks like its bleeding thru to the Emery era.
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One LT, please. Same as last year and the year before.
An interior guy wouldn't hurt, either. Garza is running out of gas and our OG play has regressed noticeably from last year.
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They drafted one in 2010 and moved him to RT. Won't do any good drafting one when they'll simply move him to another position.
Maybe they should draft a mobile QB who won't stand like a statue in the pocket and would run when the pressure is on.
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One tackled, two guards, or vice versa...but we get a used and abused Safety instead...glad we got him.....smaaaart move, Emery....Strike one, pal.....
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One tackled, two guards, or vice versa...but we get a used and abused Safety instead...glad we got him.....smaaaart move, Emery....Strike one, pal.....
I wonder how fast after 7 sacks that Emery is looking at free agents.
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Why would he do that if they dont have a need? Lovie always says we like the players we have.
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That Hardin pick is looking really silly right about now.
Nobody can tell me there wasn't an OT or OG at that spot in the draft that wouldn't have been an upgrade at one of the positions on our OL.
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I don't see why they don't put Williams back at LG.
That solves 4 of the 5 OL problems.
Garza,Louis,Carimi are fine.
You can then let the back/TE help Webb out on the corner and I expect he will get better, he got better last year.
I also expect part of the problem is that Webb/Spencer don't have the chemistry that Webb/Williams had towards the end of last year.
OL is kind of like dancing in a way (not that I know much about it) but you need talent, desire and chemistry.
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I don't see why they don't put Williams back at LG.
That solves 4 of the 5 OL problems.
Garza,Louis,Carimi are fine.
You can then let the back/TE help Webb out on the corner and I expect he will get better, he got better last year.
I also expect part of the problem is that Webb/Spencer don't have the chemistry that Webb/Williams had towards the end of last year.
OL is kind of like dancing in a way (not that I know much about it) but you need talent, desire and chemistry.
Mike Tice needs to answer that one.
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I can understand if you see talent and wanting to harness that but kind of like Hester, you have to realize sometimes talent for whatever reason does not translate on the field.
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Bobby Massie
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So who are some of the LT prospects I should be watching in college ball this year?
That will obviously be our #1 need (again) next April. And while we may not be in position to take the top guy -- and different players' stock will certainly rise and fall before then -- it's good to know some names we should be tracking.
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From NFL.com... Top 5 OT prospects at this early point in the college season.
1. *Taylor Lewan, Michigan, 6-8/302
2. *D.J. Fluker, Alabama, 6-6/335
3. *Jake Matthews, Texas A&M, 6-5/305
4. *Chris Faulk, LSU, 6-6/325
5. Ricky Wagner, Wisconsin, 6-6/322
Lewan may be this year's version of Kalil if he continues to get stronger. Fluker's a massive road grader who has better feet than expected. Matthews is the son of Pro Football Hall of Famer Bruce Matthews, but his strong play is what gets him on this list. Faulk and Wagner have the girth and just good enough footwork to play immediately as rookies, even if it's on the right side of the line instead of the left.
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Good to see. Sounds like real prospects there. We'd really have to have a bad season to end up with any of those good ones
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If there is a real solid LT prospect out there, I would say trade up if need be to get him.
We need one in the worst way.
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Jake Matthews' dad was a flat-out stud. And oh BTW he's the cousin of Clay Matthews. Two really good reasons to get him, whatever it takes.
Imagine those matchups in Bears/Packers games!
Fluker has the size that Tice likes (assuming Tice is our OC next year), and will be well-seasoned against top-flight SEC competition. And we already have a pretty strong connection to the Wisconsin program so that kid could make sense as well.
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That would likely be a first for me to witness on draft day. The Bears actually trading up in the draft to get a player? Unheard of. I'd welcome it but the shock would likely cause a heart attack
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we need an LT just that bad.
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LOL, we're already talking about OTs and Emery will probably wind up drafting Teo from ND or another safety.
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we need an LT just that bad.
I am not arguing the need, just the possibility of it. I think Hester would have to be in some package to move up as well. What other tempters should be included? Pray tell
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There's another way we could fix LT...
If the offseason started today and I were Phil Emery, I would target two players. Joe Thomas in Cleveland, and Jake Long in Miami.
I would call each of those teams and offer them our 1st round pick in 2013, our 2nd in 2014 and Devin Hester in exchange for their LT. First team to bite, gets it.
Those are two franchises with a lot of rebuilding to do and a severe lack of players with any "wow" factor at all. Our draft picks would help them rebuild, and Hester would put fans in the seats (especially if he went to the Fins). And they're both AFC teams so even if Hester got his mojo back with his new team, we wouldn't have to face him.
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Yapp, since you brought up ND and Teo, they have another hog I like pretty good. I dont know his dimentions or his name but his number is #9. I think he is a DT who will likely be matched up against Taylor Lewan this Saturday night. You might want to watch that.
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OTOH, if Hester doesn't start showing a hell of a lot more than he has so far this season, his trade value will be nil.
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I like your trade idea, especially Jake Long
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Jake Long is the only player worth a damn on that whole Dolphins team. Or at least on their offense. And as important as a stud LT is to a team, he's not a guy that's gonna put asses in the stands. Long is the only player they could even think about leveraging into additional picks or players, and if they had any class they'd allow him to go to a contending team while he still has some good years in him. On top of which he went to U of Michigan so I bet he'd be happy to get back up to the upper Midwest.
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#9 is Louis Nix lll, He is a nose guard (3/4) 6'3/326
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Both Fins and Browns just invested a lot of money in first round Qb's. No way do they give up the guys that protect those investments
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#9 is Louis Nix lll, He is a nose guard (3/4) 6'3/326
Could be worth watching... IF we were going to a 3-4 D. Which won't be happening as long as Lovie's here.
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well I smell Lovie gone more and more every day. A few more screwups and I think the handwriting is already there
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ND/Michigan should be on your TV Saturday night. Probably NBC
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Monti Te'o is an inside LB and a senior. 6'2/255
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3-4 ILB and 4-3 MLB are completely different skill sets.
Anyone thinking Teo is the "obvious" replacement for Urlacher is missing the boat. The only way Teo would make sense for the Bears is if we were going to a 3-4.
By all appearances Teo is a great player... but he's not a great fit for the Bears (at least as they are currently built), nor is a LB a more pressing need than an LT.
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I love the trade idea. I would up the ante and give up 1st this year, 1st next year and Hester. Don't forget Hester is way over paid...so unloading his salary would be beneficial to us and kind of a negative to Phins.
Draft picks are gambles. 50% of 1st rounders don't pan out. I will give up 2 1st to get All Pro LT.
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It's not Monti, it's Manti. He is a solid backer but I think I'd rather get a guy that has a bit more range on him. Te'o is more like a Briggs than a Urlacher.
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Teo dropped about 10 lbs and increased his speed this last offseason. He does cover the middle of the field a lot in ND's scheme, which more often looks like a 4-3 than a 3-4. I know he doesn't have the overwhelming athletic abilities Urlacher had coming out of college, but the kid oozes intangibles. Great effort, leadership and very mature.
He'd instantly be my favorite Bear if he ended up in Chicago, but I'd still rather get a stud o-lineman with the first rounder next year.
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recent (nov 6th) bleacher report article about potential o-line picks for the bears:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1397648-buying-or-selling-top-2013-nfl-draft-eligible-olinemen-as-fits-for-chicago-bears/page/2
interestingly, the alabama vs texas a&m game today will have some top ranked o-line prospects on both teams. the game is on national tv at 3:30 ET on CBS.
A&M features 2 top tackle prospects: LT Luke Joeckel, who is rated the top LT in the 2013 draft on some sites and RT Jake Mathews, son of hall of fame o-lineman Bruce Mathews (who played 19 years for the Oilers/Titans franchise) and cousin to Clay Mathews III of Green Bay.
Bama features top rated prospects left guard Chance Warmack (said by many to be the best guard since hutchinson), center Barret Jones and RT DJ Fluker.
An article about the talent on the Alabama line:
http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2012/11/best_of_the_best_alabamas_offe.html
this is the game to watch this year for o-line prospects!
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Good article. Interesting cause last year DeCastro from Stanford was bring compared to Hutch. So is Warmack considered better than DeCastro then? Jones would have to be a darn good C to warrant our 2nd round pick but it could happen. Fluker is a massive dude who probably projects to RT.
Bama always seems to have 2 or 3 NFL caliber O-Linemen coming out but for whatever reason it doesnt seem like a lot of them distinguish themselves as pros. Andre Smith being the biggest name the last few years and he has definitely not met expectations.
Matthews pedigree makes him an intriguing prospect for the Bears plus the fact he'd be facing his cousin twice a year.
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One of my biggest complaints about this year's draft is the non-attention towards the offensive line. Probably the biggest ? on this team. At the time I was on another board because I didn't know where you guys wound up after worldcrossing.
I had hoped for two linemen to be drafted. I was torn between Castro and Glenn,but,I was leaning toward Cordy Glenn for his versatility,as a possible LT or G. I know it's old news,but,I was hoping for a draft similar to this.
1) Cordy Glenn T/G
2) Josh Robinson CB
3)Lamar Miller RB not a big need but to good a value to pass on in the 3rd
4) Juron Criner WR
5) Nate Potter LT
6) Audie Cole LB
7) Dwight Jones WR
Just my 2 cents. Carry on.
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Pretty sure Emery wont ignore the OL next April, especially if pass protection doesnt improve significantly from where it is now.
Also remember we have 2 OTs on the practice squad who could be in the mix by next preseason.
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"Matthews pedigree makes him an intriguing prospect for the Bears plus the fact he'd be facing his cousin twice a year."
I was thinking that could make for some interesting and fun match ups.
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Bama's O-Line didn't look so great yesterday.
Their C in particular looked bad.
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Barrett Jones just moved to C this year...
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He's also a 4.0 student...he could play for me any day...
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Marshall should have turned that up the field and got a couple more yards. Running straight up he likely gets the first down.
Jay has also got to quit airing it out on 3rd and short, we need first downs to keep the Houston O off the field.
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After tonight's beatdown in San Fran...
1st - OL
2nd - OL
4th - OL
5th - OL
6th - OL
That is all.
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You ask alot young Padawan. The force is strong with you. But the force is weak at Halas and in fact quite braindead in the head so no you won't see that.....
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I'll give Emery this much ... it was his first year on the job ...
BUT AFTER HIS SECOND YEAR ...
this cat better get a CLUE as to what has been known around the entire NFL for a DECADE.
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BEARRSSE DONT HAVE AN OL !!
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The offensive line was offensive. Pathetic. Had a night to sleep on it, glad Cutler wasn't in now coming off of his concussion. That would have sunk our season. What a dismantling.
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Webb has to go. Sit, whatever. That was horrible. And then Carimi, ugh
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Grizz, our season is already sunk. We were handed a bag of goods and come to find out, the bag has holes all over it and everything is coming out. If IF we make it to the playoffs...and I can't even believe I'm typing 'playoffs' in reference to this cluster of a team....we will get stomped, first round.
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....Yeah and that bag has a hole in it big enough to drive a Mack truck through it
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that last sack by Aldon and Justin Smith, I think Webb and Carimi actually made the tackle.
The DE's drove both OTs rigth into Campbell.
We need to run a roll out every play. At least after the snap the QB is automatically running away from one DE.
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It's pretty simple really.
- Cut Webb, Carimi, Rachal and Spencer the day after the end of the season, and put Garza on notice that if he comes back for 2013 it will be as a backup only.
- Spend our first 3 draft picks on O-Linemen and hope Emery gets them all right.
- Sign the best O-Lineman out of FA that we can afford.
- Fire Mike Tice and his toady hack of an OL coach (whatever his name is), and spend both of their salaries on the best OL coach money can buy.
At that point we can acknowledge a good-faith effort is underway to fix this mess. Until and unless that all happens, it's just window dressing.
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I'm not sure we can clean house in one year but we really need to get at least 2 starter quality OL this offseason.
One of those needs to be LT.
The other could be RT or LG.
If we get a solid LT and RT it might make our G's look better.
Unsure why Carimi has sucked so bad at times.
At times he looks really good.
Maybe the thing to do is put Webb at RT and get a LT and LG.
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Garza and Louis were only garden-variety bad last night.
The left side and Carimi though, were flat-out brutal.
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I don't understand why we didn't let Williams play LG. He was at least mediocre last year.
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The thing that was glaringly obvious last night is that the Niners front office has invested in talent and coaching expertise on BOTH sides of the ball, whereas the Lovie Bears have only focused on the D (and specifically DL) for years.
You HAVE to take a balanced approach to your personnel. One side of the ball or unit can't get all the attention year after year while other areas get ignored. Our current deficiencies at OL, TE, and supporting WRs are squarely on Angelo and it will take at least two more offseasons to get those areas of the team up even close to where the Niners are already. At which point our D will be aging out.
What a mess Angelo left us. Although Emery spending 2 of our top 3 picks on defensive players didn't help matters either.
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The only Bears first round draft choice starting on defense is Urlacher...and he was drafted by Hatley.
Offensively, Carimi is the only one.
Bears looked very old and slow last night...
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Very OLD and SLOW!!
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I know this much...
This is a VERY VERY GOOD YEAR to be a top-notch O-Lineman coming out of college.
The Bears OL is one of the worst in the league but there are plenty of other teams who have really struggled up front this season, and there are only so many decent FAs to go around. You see these multimillion dollar franchise QBs being thrown around like rag dolls week after week and only the most dense of those GMs won't be moving heaven and earth this offseason to fix that.
I would not be surprised if the 2013 draft sees a historically high number of O-Linemen taken... and some of those guys going a half- to a full round sooner than they would have if demand were not so great.
If the Bears intend to improve their OL through the draft then Emery had better have scouts working overtime cause there's gonna be a LOT of competition for the good ones.
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We definitely agree there. And FA OLmen will be too expensive too
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I just don't get these people who are saying that Emery needs to trade the farm to move up in the draft and take T'eo.
Yes, he's an amazing college player. Yes, he will probably be a very good pro. But the Bears need to realize that the 1990s were a long time ago and that the same old 4-3, Tampa-2 D is not the future core of this team (or really, any team)... even with a new young potential All-World MLB.
The future core of our team is our offense, and that's where the focus needs to be this spring and in FA. The defense needs to be re-tooled to a system where the whole is more than the sum of its parts so that we don't have to spend 2 of our top 3 draft picks every year on defense and the whole thing doesn't fall apart when injuries inevitably occur.
I saw a mock draft today that had us taking a LB in the 4th round and THAT makes a lot more sense than killing our whole draft for the sake of yet ANOTHER defensive "name" while we settle for leftovers (again) on the OL and TE.
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How many games do the Bears go into where they have to game plan against the opposing team's MLB? Certainly no one in our division.
If you can get lucky and get an all pro there...great....but the playmakers on defense are at DE (and Tampa 2 DTs) and corners not MLBs.
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Yup... For the first time in a long while I feel like we're set on the DL. At least if we stick with a 4-3 front.
Not a lot of work needed there this offseason IMO.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4681271/bears-shelve-toeaina-elevate-t-brandon
This probably means Toeaina has played his last down as a Bear. I don't foresee a lot of churn on our DL this offseason but he's one guy that's probably a goner.
It will also be interesting to see if the OT Brandon actually gets any run in these last two games.
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The Toeaina cut/Brandon promotion could be due to a number of factors. Most likely Scott's injury is more serious than thought which means Carimi is back at RT and there is no backup offensive tackle. Also might mean that Melton is ready to go and the Bears are now back to 4 DTs with Melton, Paea, Collins and Okoye (probable odd man out on inactive list).
An ex-co-worker of mine has known the family of Jordan Black for years, so I follow his career. He was just suspended for PED at Washington. Apparently he was out of football last year and had to put on some weight to play. The only reason he was playing last week was that the starter got knocked out with a concussion. Maybe the skins were snooping around Brandon and the Bears had to make a move.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4681271/bears-shelve-toeaina-elevate-t-brandon
This probably means Toeaina has played his last down as a Bear. I don't foresee a lot of churn on our DL this offseason but he's one guy that's probably a goner.
It will also be interesting to see if the OT Brandon actually gets any run in these last two games.
With the way the Bears were playing musical lineman against the Pack, Brandon will get some time, dont worry about it.
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Yup... I can't remember when I've ever seen a team literally limping to the finish line with injuries like we are this year.
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We did that last year too.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1446651-2013-nfl-mock-draft-nfl-counterparts-for-each-1st-round-pick#/articles/1446651-2013-nfl-mock-draft-nfl-counterparts-for-each-1st-round-pick
This article seems to show a preponderance of DL, QB and several OT prospects. However only one was from Alabama and none from ND. It also had the Bears drafting 24th which I dont believe. I believe the article was likely written when the Bears were 7-1, definitely not 8-6. What was iteresting was that the Bears drafted an OT. I just wasnt that familiar with the player. Also my recolection of Tessessee was it was a bad football team going 5-7 and 1-7 in the SEC.
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I was thinking that too... Bears drafting 24 after what has happened the last few weeks seems optimistic to say the least. I would venture that when it's all said and done we'll be back about where we were last year -- in that no mans land between about 16 and 19.
Re the U of Tennessee, yeah they were really bad this year but that doesn't mean there still couldn't be a couple of good players on that team. I actually haven't heard of the OT they had going to the Bears in that mock but I do know one of Tennesee's WRs in particular is very highly regarded. In fact the argument could be made that standout players on bad teams may actually be better NFL prospects than guys from really good teams because the good players on bad teams have to carry more of the burden and get less help from their teammates. It also helps you see how they respond to adversity which can give some good insights into their character. Do they pack it in during a crappy year when everything falls apart around them, or do they keep plugging away?
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Excellent point.
Oh and I see Te'o is not far below maybe in the 15,16 area
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That mock draft has us taking the 6th OT. Sigh. Of course that will change 100 times before the draft, but still...
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ND' LT is staying in school. That kid has allowed ONE sack all year. Pretty amazing stuff....
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Who's to say all those OTs are right or left tackles? And who is to say they are the best? And who is to say that all those OTs are going to come out? And who is to say that there wont be more coming out that arent listed there?
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And how do you know ND's OT isnt coming out. If there has been talk he is staying in school then who's to say he wont change his mind after the national championship game?
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He's already recomitted to staying put.
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Brian Kelly announced it in a press conference yesterday. LT Zach Martin and DT Louis Nix are both coming back for their final seasons. RB Cierre Wood is likely to turn pro if he gets a decent grade from the draft board(4th or better).
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Talk is cheap. Money talks. First thing first lets see who wins the national championship game. If ND wins the game, all bets are off as to who stays and who comes back.
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if you are going to be drafted in the top 10, I see no reason to return to school. If you are going late 1st round and another year will boost you up then I can see the reason.
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http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2012/12/18/3781112/notre-dame-nfl-draft-louis-nix-zack-martin
Nix is expected to be a high selection whenever he enters, while Martin can greatly improve his stock by staying.
Nix is returning in part for his mom, who did not get to attend his Senior Day in high school. Nix said his mom wants him to have something to fall back on if football doesn't work out for him. As the anchor of the Irish defensive line, Nix has 5.5 tackles for loss and five pass break-ups this season.
Martin is a three-year starter and the best player along the Irish offensive line. Martin said, "I wanted to play with my little brother (Nick), I wanted to finish it out with (guard Chris) Watt, and ultimately I want to play another year with coach (Harry) Hiestand." Martin, who is projected as a second-round pick, said he knows he will get better with another year of school.
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Harry Hiestand is Notre Dame's OL coach?
Then no thanks to any O-Linemen from there. He used to be the Bears OL coach and before the Bears finally fired him our OL was almost as bad as it is now.
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ND' LT is staying in school. That kid has allowed ONE sack all year. Pretty amazing stuff....
Remember Terrence Metcalf? He allowed 1 sack in 3 years against SEC competition. Perspective...
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Tell ya what, I would gladly take ND's Martin ANY day over what we currently have and I assume you'd do the same....
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Time to change the name to :
2013 NFL Draft
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If the Bears don't come out and grab either one of two things in the first round, a OL or Eiffert TE, I'm gonna say we failed once again at drafting. This is low hanging fruit, folks. Stuff a grade schooler can see we need, so if the 'brains' that run this club think differently....it's time for new brains.....
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2013 NFL DRAFT ORDER
1. Chiefs
2. Jaguars
3. Raiders
4. Eagles
5. Lions
6. Browns
7. Cardinals
8. Bills
9. Jets
10. Titans
11. Chargers
12. Dolphins
13. Buccaneers
14. Panthers
15. Saints
16. Rams
17. Steelers
18. Cowboys
19. Giants
20. Bears
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Martin isn't leaving ND, his younger brother is on the team and they may both end up starting next year. Martin might be more of a guard at the next level anyway. Short arms. Hiestand is a good college coach, just had crap talent with the Bears. Wood is gone.
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20 is a rough spot to be drafting in.
Almost certainly too low to get one of the plum OTs (Joeckl, Matthews or Fisher). Probably also too low to get the top rated OG Chance Warmack (although I said that about David DeCastro last year and he lasted into the 20s).
But, it's also a little too high for the 2nd rated OG or a tweener like Barrett Jones. And it's a little high for Tyler Eifert.
Could wind up being a BPA situation (which unfortunately, could mean defense), or possibly a tradedown.
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In hindsight, it is easy to be upset with Lovie winning after the Vikes also won. My bigger grip was winning the last game last season, losing Urlacher and about 7 draft spots in the process... I give Lovie a pass for the win over the Lions, they were actually playing for something...
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I count 14 teams drafting ahead of us will want OL.
Emery's going to have to be very good and active in FA as well.
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We're gonna have to open the checkbook for LT in FA... Thats all there is to it.
Then find a starting C in the first 2 rounds if the draft, and hope between Brown, Louis, Scott, Carimi and Webb we can fill the other 3 spots. Thats still 1 or 2 new players short of what we need but I think given our other needs that may be all we can do for one offseason. Hopefully that will be enough.
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And maybe they find a Coach knows how to develop an offensive line.
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With the talent void we had on our O-line I'm not sure any coach could have gotten much more out of them.
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And an OC who can maximize our better O Linemen and hide the worse ones.
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Yeah, hide them on the practice squad
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Let's see whether the Badgers can do any better than the Packers did.
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It's scary how good Jadeveon Clowney is...
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(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/5906727/clowney.0_standard_709.0.gif)
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Damn VJ it's a motherfuucker ... you look at defense like that and you want him.
On the other hand JCut getting planted on a reguler basis means that defense with him aboard,
will be gassed by the end of the second quarter.
I think it's time as to why we dont make the playoffs much as we love drafting defense.
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HOLY crepes! That is one of the fiercest hits I've ever seen! I mean that guy is diving at the rb and his helmet must have flown ten yards! Wow...
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I was listening to it on the radio - that play happened immediately after the refs (and the replay officials) jobbed SC on a 1st down spot - and then Clowney says... "I got this..."
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Clowney isn't even eligible to declare for the draft for another year yet. But yeah he looks like something special if he can keep his head on straight.
I checked out the Stanford TE Ertz last night. The Cardinal wound up running a lot more than I expected but what I say of Ertz was pretty good stuff. A real long frame (6'6), nice speed, willing to fight for yards after contact and a good feel for finding the open spots. Impressed me a lot more than Coby Fleener did last year. Not sure how he stacks up compared to Eifert from Notre Dame but I think either of those guys would help our offense immensely and if we can get one of them with our 2nd round pick to go with best available OL in the 1st, we would be on our way.
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Stanford is one hard nosed, tough sucker teams....watched em play a few games this season and they are good...
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I was watching the Carolina bowl game yesterday and my friends were still screaming about the horrible, horrible spot and 1st down call on a 4th down play....
My first thought was that he was dead.....
One the best hits (if not the best) all year. And it turned the game around.....
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It would be nice to see a defensive player taken #1 overall for a change.
I'm tired of a QB being the first pick every year, especially when he's not even close to the best player available.
Pretty sure a defensive guy won't be the #1 pick this year (although the DT from Utah has been going to the Chiefs in some of the early mocks)... but if Clowney stays healthy and playing like that, I think he could be a lock for the top spot in 2014.
That Clowney clip kind of reminds me of the "Lavar Leap" that shot Lavar Arrington up the draft boards a few years back.
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In the year that we won't be drafting a safety, this is one that I wish we had... I love what I have seen of Elam and he is going to make someone a smart GM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/03/two-florida-gators-declare-for-nfl-draft-following-sugar-bowl/
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Hopefully Hardin makes up for lost time at S next year. That would help our situation back there a lot.
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We've got some dead weight back there at safety and it sure wouldnt shock me that Emery drafts another safety if he thinks the guy is a play maker. Hardin has shown nothing but being a very raw athletic kid. I wouldnt rule out a BPA safety pick
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I think Hardin was drafted as the replacement/upgrade for Steltz. If Hardin is healthy and plays to expectations, Steltz will be gone.
So much of what we do regarding defensive personnel is going to depend on whether Marinelli is kept around or not. If he stays then I see the draft being predominantly about offense but if we hire a new DC then all bets are off and our new OC is probably gonna have to make do with more of our current players on offense than a lot of us would prefer.
Personally I don't relish the idea of churning our defensive roster at all, simply because of the serious work we have to do on offense. I will be very nervous if we don't come away from this offseason with at least 3 new starters for the OL between FA and the draft. Garza has never been a true C, he is getting old, his play slipped significantly this year and he is not the leader on the OL that the C is supposed to be. Our LG position was a gaping wound all year, and I have zero confidence Carimi will be much (if at all) better after this offseason than he is now.
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Even when Hardin was healthy he didnt show me much. The kid needs to learn to tackle first. Thats a raw athletic kid.
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If Hardin could turn into a guy like Kam Chancellor for the Seahawks, I'd be elated.
He's got to get (and stay) healthy enough to be on the field for that to happen though.
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Emery needs to be a better drafter than he was last year
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I think he will be. We seem to forget that he wasn't hired until late January last year. He didn't have a whole lot of time to evaluate the roster when he drafted. I think he has a much clearer picture of the needs this year
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I think Emery did OK with his first draft given the limited time he had to prepare and knowing he would have to accommodate the coaching staff already in place.
What disappointed me more than the picks per se, was 1) how many games our top four draft picks all missed due to injuries, and 2) how the offensive players in particular were under-used (Jeffery) and mis-utilized (E-Rod). Those aren't things Emery could directly control.
Plain and simple, we need our 2013 draft class to stay a lot healthier than this group did, and we need the coaches to dramatically ramp-up their development so they can make much bigger contributions their first year. If/when that happens, Emery's rep as a drafter will improve significantly.
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"2) how the offensive players in particular (Jeffery and E-Rod) were under-used / mis-utilized in our offense. Those aren't things Emery could directly control."
Bingo, that falls squarely on the coaches.
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E-Rod was an undersized player. He didnt have the speed, height and weight to accomplish what he was drafted to do. Thats on Emery. Hardin simply was a bad pick. How can you draft a player who never even played his senior year due to serious injury with a 3rd round pick? Yeah I can sort of give him a pass due to having to rely on a scouting staff not his own and coming in late so to speak but this year he has to do better.
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I thought E-Rod was very similar in size to Hernandez of the Pats, a smaller but very good TE.
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Along with new coaches and improving the roster, I hope Emery plans to clean house on our strength and conditioning staff and the training staff as well.
We have been losing way too many players to injuries the past couple of years and too many of our guys are not in top condition, which I'm convinced is a big reason we so rarely finish games strong and have lost too many games in the final minutes. (see Seattle). Veteran core guys like Forte, Marshall, Peppers, Briggs, Izzy, Jennings and Peanut are obviously taking good care of themselves but a lot of the younger guys and our entire OL don't seem to be following their example and they really need to step it up in terms of strength and endurance.
Somewhat related, as a stretch goal Emery and George should also target getting FieldTurf put into Soldier Field before next season. If those two really want to implement culture change and start rebuilding respect for the franchise around the league, then finally getting an acceptable quality NFL field would be a very visible sign of progress.
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I dont know the size of Hernandez but E-Rod is only 6'1
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E-Rod's not even as big as Michael Bush at a time when the TEs that are doing real damage are all 6'5, 6'6 and 250-ish.
He's a definite niche player and one of those guys who I think will either blossom quickly under the new OC , or never really "get it" and be off the team in a couple of years.
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Hernandez, Aaron TE 6-1 245 23 3 Florida
Rodriguez, Evan FB 6-2 239 24 R Temple
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Well when a TE is only 6'1 and the DBs are the same size thats no mismatch in your favor. You need a TE who is Eifert size who can go up for balls and win mismatches.
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ERod is 6'2 and runs about a 4.6 40.
For a TE, height isn't all of it, body thickness and arm length helps a good bit to shield the ball from defenders.
I think him being injured tied the team up in how far along they could bring him.
I expect they envisioned him as a hybrid guy that can play FB/TE and they could move around.
The fact that they needed to cover for an abysmal line with FB/TE/RB might also have limited their creativity.
I know Emery said that our OL was on par with several playoff teams based on things like hurries etc, I wonder how much worse that would have been if we hadn't kept our TE/RB in to block.
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I know Emery said that our OL was on par with several playoff teams based on things like hurries etc, I wonder how much worse that would have been if we hadn't kept our TE/RB in to block.
Yeah I remember hearing him say that too, and that was the only point in the entire presser where I thought he might have been shining us on a bit. In particular he was more complimentary of Webb and Carimi than I expected and that concerned me to hear. The visions of those two repeatedly getting run over (literally) in San Francisco are not easy to shake. Hopefully just a case of masking his true intentions.
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Yeah, a mask job hopefully. Thats one abysmal Oline.
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Whats the status on Clady with Denver? Is he a FA or what?
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He is a FA but it is widely believed the Broncos will go to whatever lengths are necessary to keep him. Especially if Peyton Manning plans to come back for the 2013 campaign.
Now where this could all get very interesting is if the Bears hire McCoy, the Broncos win it all this year, and Manning retires. At that point the entire dynamic of the team changes. The Broncos may decide they need Clady's money for other positions, and Clady could see Chicago as a place where he'd be more likely to get back to the big game than on a post-Manning, post-McCoy Broncos team.
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I doubt Manning retires if he wins the SB. If he wins TWO, that would be another story.
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Probably not going to watch much of the bowl game tonight but wondering if there are any players on the Oregon or K-State teams we should be keeping our eye on?
I know that Oregon has a tall skinny DE that's projected to be a 1st round pick but I don't think we're really in the market for that this year. Anyone else?
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I dont know whether Manning retires either. Tagging Clady would cost a lot of dinero. With Manning's big contract that could present a huge problem. I think there is more to this worthy of keeping a close eye on it.
But in the end Emery has to come up with a solid LT and there are a lot of variables out there that could affect the situation. Would you give Denver #20 for Clady? I think so. At #20 you arent going to get the player there that will impact our team like Clady would.
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I would spend big money on Clady before I'd spend it on Long, that's for sure.
Branden Albert or Jermon Bushrod, too.
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....which is why you be a good Indian and keep your ear to the ground.
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Yeah... don't think for a moment that Emery isn't trying to dig up some info on possible FA leads while he's talking to these guys from Denver, New Orleans, etc.
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Griz,
I believe you are right. Elam has Ed Reed type potential at S. Wether he develops into that play over time depends on his work ethic, coaching, etc. The guy will definitely be a game changer if utilized properly and he stays heathy.
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It's almost impossible to predict right now what defensive players (if any) the Bears will target till we know if Marinelli is going to be our DC next season.
Emery's draft board right now for defense is probably a blank slate... as it should be.
Once we know Marinelli's fate we can start slotting in some possible defensive picks though I would suspect and hope that offensive needs (OL, TE, speed WR) will dominate our draft this year.
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UPDATE the tagline to 2013 NFL Draft
No wonder this team is in trouble ... the fuuckin FANS dont know what year it is !
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UPDATE the tagline to 2013 NFL Draft
No wonder this team is in trouble ... the fuuckin FANS dont know what year it is !
Too many years of watching Lovie clock mismanagement. We've developed calendar mismanagement
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LOL. At what point do we call a timeout cause we couldnt get the pick in in time?
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LOL. At what point do we call a timeout cause we couldnt get the pick in in time?
YAP,
Stop talking history, get over to the new 2013 Draft thead.