Author Topic: Cubs in '12  (Read 203036 times)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26959
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10500 on: December 14, 2012, 10:02:04 am »
Quote
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
a couple rival execs said aghast over anibal's $80M/5 yr #tigers deal. better bet than cj wilson, i say. #aghast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16442
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10501 on: December 14, 2012, 10:17:39 am »
If you want to find out where the leak came from, follow the money.  The one that had the most to gain from the leaks in this situation was the agent of Sanchez. 

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8857
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10502 on: December 14, 2012, 10:47:42 am »
If you want to find out where the leak came from, follow the money.  The one that had the most to gain from the leaks in this situation was the agent of Sanchez. 

Agree with Dave.  And to the extent that Sanchez' agent told Nightengale that there was a deal with the Cubs, and did so as a means of driving up Sanchez' price, he may be a short-term winner, but I'm not so sure about the long-term.  I don't know about Hoyer, but Epstein has a reputation as being anything but a softy. He may not say anything, but (as Curt suggested) he will remember and it will affect his dealings with that agent in the future. Very possibly other  GMs as well.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8857
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10503 on: December 14, 2012, 10:57:26 am »
Kaplan said yesterday that he had heard Cubs were in on Carlos Villanueva.  I'm curious what others here think of him.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14445
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10504 on: December 14, 2012, 11:13:25 am »
Quote
Carlos Villanueva - R - Blue Jays

Free agent Carlos Villanueva wants any interested team to guarantee him 30 starts next season.

Villanueva has been shuffled in and out of the rotation most of his career, but he pitched well enough as a starter in 2012 that some team should be willing to grant him his request. It could be the Blue Jays, as general manager Alex Anthopoulous said he'd have no problem relying on the righty for 30 starts. "Absolutely, I’ve never doubted Carlos," Anthopoulous said.

I wouldn't have a problem with Villanueva.  He kind of fits in with some of the intriguing small ball type signings we've had this offseason.  It also would definitely move Travis Wood to the bullpen, so that helps with our pitching depth.  With Wood as our #6 starter, that should help keep us from relying on Jason Belken/Justin Germano types next season.

It also seems like signing him would pretty much put us out of the running for Edwin Jackson if that's something we wanted to do, since we've also promised Baker and Feldman rotation spots.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14445
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10505 on: December 14, 2012, 11:14:02 am »
I wonder if we like Villanueva on a short term deal better than Jackson on a 4-5 year deal.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18845
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10506 on: December 14, 2012, 11:15:42 am »
The Cubs like him more than Feldman and went to him first.  He wanted 3 years and the Cubs moved on to Feldman.  Maybe he is backing off that now.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16248
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10507 on: December 14, 2012, 11:42:32 am »
The Cubs like him more than Feldman and went to him first.  He wanted 3 years and the Cubs moved on to Feldman.  Maybe he is backing off that now.

Interesting.  He'd certainly help the Cubs rotation in their quest to run away from the league in HR-allowed.  25HR in 125 innings last year, wow. 

He's been kind of inconsistent and consistent in his career:  four of his last five years, his ERA's have ranged in the 4.04-4.61 range, so there's some consistency there that befits his career ERA+ of 100.  But he's had some extreme bounce in his walk rates, K-rates, and HR rates.  If you could get the better end of all three, you'd have a good pitcher.   

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16248
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10508 on: December 14, 2012, 12:09:37 pm »
One thought that Villanueva reminded me of:   

I think it's a bad policy to promise guys starting jobs.  Like no-trade clauses, promising a guy a job as a starter, is bad and undesirable policy. 

You can certainly sell the landscape of your roster, and explain how it certainly seems open to compete for a starting job and to win it.  And you can certainly promise that you will open him up to that competition when spring camp begins.  But things can change, and management/Sveum shouldn't be locked into using a guy as a starter if there are reasons to use him otherwise.  Wood might improve, and if everything was working out great perhaps Wood, Baker, Garza, and Feldman might all look better than Villanueva.   Or perhaps by July Vizcaino will be flashing more promising stuff than Villanueva will ever throw. 

If a guy is good enough, he probably doesn't need to demand that promise.  I don't think Sanchez or greinke needed any such promises.  Promise the opportunity to compete for a job, that's fine, but don't promise starting. 

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17183
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10509 on: December 14, 2012, 12:46:52 pm »
If you want to find out where the leak came from, follow the money.  The one that had the most to gain from the leaks in this situation was the agent of Sanchez.

While he may have had the most to gain, that doesn't mean it is more likely than not to have been him.  There would have been a number of people aware of what was happening, Hoyer, Epstein, possibly Ricketts, Sanchez, the agent of Sanchez, and likely at least Dombrowski with the Tigers.  That is the likely minimum, and most likely there also would have been an assistant or two for each of those named.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16442
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10510 on: December 14, 2012, 01:17:25 pm »
We can rule out Dombrowski, since he could not be in on the Cubs negotiations, and would have absolutely no motivation to reveal it if he DID find out.  And the Cubs FO certainly have shown the ability to keep secrets.

Of course, it is POSSIBLE that someone other than the agent leaked it.  But he certainly had the most to gain by it.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18845
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10511 on: December 14, 2012, 02:02:34 pm »
Dombrowski had to increase his offer by 1 year and $32 million.  He had nothing to gain by letting it out.  The Cubs didn't have his name on the dotted line, they had nothing to gain.  Sanchez/his agent got the place, an extra year, an extra $32 million.  I wonder who let it slip.

guest61

  • Guest
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10512 on: December 14, 2012, 02:15:15 pm »
I aint one bit tore up that we didnt get Anibal.

We're gonna suck anyway so why give a pitcher who isnt even a legit #1 80 million dollars?

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16442
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10513 on: December 14, 2012, 02:36:46 pm »
Perhaps because when the increased revenue starts coming to the teams next year, the free agent prices are very likely to soar far beyond current prices.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14445
Re: Cubs in '12
« Reply #10514 on: December 14, 2012, 02:39:30 pm »
$80 million certainly doesn't buy a #1 starter nowadays.