Author Topic: Cubs in '13 1/15/13 - 6/11/13  (Read 55209 times)

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #660 on: March 24, 2013, 04:01:29 pm »
Which young player has any realistic prospect of performing well enough above expectations to put this team in contention?

When did I say that those performing above expectations would necessarily be YOUNG players.

Any player on the roster could have a career year.  Glen Beckert was over 30 when he hit 50 points higher than he did in the years before or after that year.

Reb

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #661 on: March 24, 2013, 05:32:17 pm »
When did I say that those performing above expectations would necessarily be YOUNG players. Any player on the roster could have a career year.  Glen Beckert was over 30 when he hit 50 points higher than he did in the years before or after that year.

Beckert's career season is probably a very good example of random chance in baseball.  Beckert's BABIP that season was .352 compared to his career .292 BABIP.  The important thing about that season is that it emphasizes how important luck is in baseball. 

With a younger player, you don't necessarily know the baseline---from which good luck (or bad luck) plays off, one way or the other . 

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #662 on: March 24, 2013, 06:08:02 pm »
Has anybody heard anything recently about Brett Jackson?  He and his revised swing was the lead story back in February.  But he's been missing for weeks now, it seems.  Are there hopes that he'll be ready for the minor league season, or is his injury more serious and he may miss more time?  Do you think he'll be able to open with Iowa, or go to XST for a while once he's healthy enough to play?  Kind of too bad that his reworked approach has gotten interrupted.   

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #663 on: March 24, 2013, 07:04:31 pm »
Has anybody heard anything recently about Brett Jackson?  He and his revised swing was the lead story back in February.  But he's been missing for weeks now, it seems.  Are there hopes that he'll be ready for the minor league season, or is his injury more serious and he may miss more time?  Do you think he'll be able to open with Iowa, or go to XST for a while once he's healthy enough to play?  Kind of too bad that his reworked approach has gotten interrupted.   

Quote
B-JAX WATCH: The outfield prospect sidelined more than two weeks with a sore shoulder threw without problems Friday, hit off a tee and is on track to play again during the final week of camp.

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #664 on: March 24, 2013, 09:00:26 pm »
Cactus, you're on it!  thanks a bunch.  That's great.  Hopefully he'll get grooved back in and be ready to right on pace when Iowa opens it's season. 

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #665 on: March 24, 2013, 10:17:55 pm »
When did I say that those performing above expectations would necessarily be YOUNG players.

You didn't even suggest it.  My point is that older players having career years are a virtual certainty to be traded for prospects by some team willing to overpay.

And that is a good thing.

If DeJesus is hitting .330 with an OPS of .850 at the end of June, he will be gone,  If Soriano comes remotely close to repeating last year, and doesn't block it this year, he will be gone.


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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #666 on: March 25, 2013, 08:51:42 am »
Probably, but a career year by Barney, Valbuena and Schierholz will probably keep them with the team if by July the Cubs are leading the league by 3 or 4 games.

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #667 on: March 25, 2013, 12:08:17 pm »
I posted some of Fangraphs' positional power rankings in the last couple of weeks, which they base off a combination of ZIPS and Steamer projections that appear on their site, plus their own depth charts to determine playing time.  They finished up the position players last Wednesday.  The Cubs were strong at shortstop (#4) and first base (#5).  They were middle of the pack in the outfield spots.  They were bottom 10 but not awful at 2B and C.  And they were #29 at third base.  When Fangraphs summarized it last week, the Cubs came up #22 overall, both with the raw results and with park-adjusted results:

As you’ve no doubt noticed, we’ve been rolling out posts that work through the expected production for each team at each position on the diamond, and with the DH post going up this morning…
FanGraphs Baseball · fangraphs.com


Today, they started the starting rotation rankings, showing rotations #16-#30.  For starting pitching, the Cubs come in...well, we don't know yet, because they're in the top 15.  The intro to the pitching rankings say that teams in the #13-#17 range are virtually indistinguishable.  The Giants and Braves are in the #16-#17 positions, so I think it's almost certain the Cubs are in that 13-17 range (I can't imagine they project to be better than those two).  Still, the Cubs are solidly middle of the pack in the rotation.

And this makes me wonder...why is everyone so dismissive of the Cubs?  They don't project to be good offensively, but there are about 8 teams who are projected to be worse.  On offense, they're in the same range with teams like the Royals and Orioles, a little ahead of the Mets and Mariners, and not even that far behind Cleveland and the Padres...but all of those teams are solidly in the bottom third in pitching.  And all of those teams are given some chance of winning this year by most fans and experts.  In fact, many of them are being picked as strong sleepers this year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I expect the Cubs to contend.  But going by the projections, the Cubs just aren't in the Astros/Twins/Marlins class that most people are putting them in.  In overall quality, the Cubs are more like the Royals, Orioles, Mets, Mariners, Indians, and Padres.  They're all flawed teams who are not likely to contend this year...but they're also all good enough that it wouldn't take *that* much going better than expected for them to make a run.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 12:10:01 pm by brjones »

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #668 on: March 25, 2013, 04:01:37 pm »
Today, they started the starting rotation rankings, showing rotations #16-#30.  For starting pitching, the Cubs come in...well, we don't know yet, because they're in the top 15.  The intro to the pitching rankings say that teams in the #13-#17 range are virtually indistinguishable.  The Giants and Braves are in the #16-#17 positions, so I think it's almost certain the Cubs are in that 13-17 range (I can't imagine they project to be better than those two).  Still, the Cubs are solidly middle of the pack in the rotation.

Seriously, FANGRAPHS rates the Cubs' starting rotation even or better with the Braves and Giants?  Doesn't that undermine the credibility of the ratings?  I say this as someone who isn't nearly as negative about the team as most here.

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #669 on: March 25, 2013, 04:07:44 pm »
It could be that the Cubs rotation is simply so bad it was off the chart.

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #670 on: March 25, 2013, 04:18:46 pm »
Well, the top 15 rankings came out...and the Cubs are #9.  Here are the articles:

For an explanation of this series, please read the introductory post. The data is a hybrid projection of the ZIPS and Steamer systems with playing time determined through depth charts created by ou...
FanGraphs Baseball · fangraphs.com

For an explanation of this series, please read the introductory post. The data is a hybrid projection of the ZIPS and Steamer systems with playing time determined through depth charts created by ou...
FanGraphs Baseball · fangraphs.com


What this system likes is the Cubs' depth.  A lot of the teams (Braves and Giants included) have a strong top 2-3, then drop off fast.  The Cubs have a slightly weaker top 3 than those (Samardzija/Jackson/Garza), but go 7-8 deep with legitimate major league starters.  Since the exercise is based on adding up projected WAR, having 7 guys who provide legitimate positive value in the rotation adds up. 

We'll see how it works out in practice. 

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #671 on: March 25, 2013, 04:33:03 pm »
Cubs' rotation the 9th best in all of MLB?  Sorry, but that just seems absurd to me.

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #672 on: March 25, 2013, 04:50:47 pm »
We'll see.  I probably wouldn't rank them that high, but I don't think it's that far out of line.  The top three is really good, there's depth on the back end, and the #4/#5 spots are in better shape than at least half the teams in baseball no matter who fills those roles.

What is kind of nonsensical to me about that post is the discussion of the Cubs rotation.  It basically says, "Yeah, this looks good on paper for now, and it really is a good rotation...but it's inevitable half of them will be traded off at the deadline."  That just doesn't make sense.  If the Cubs truly have the 9th best rotation in baseball (and by the way, best in the division), there is nothing inevitable about the outcome of this season.  With that kind of pitching, all it takes is one or two better-than-expected seasons out of the offense to make the team a real contender.

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #673 on: March 25, 2013, 07:00:59 pm »
Well, the top 15 rankings came out...and the Cubs are #9.  Here are the articles:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2013-positional-power-rankings-starting-pitchers-1-15/
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2013-positional-power-rankings-starting-pitchers-16-30/

What this system likes is the Cubs' depth.  A lot of the teams (Braves and Giants included) have a strong top 2-3, then drop off fast.  The Cubs have a slightly weaker top 3 than those (Samardzija/Jackson/Garza), but go 7-8 deep with legitimate major league starters.  Since the exercise is based on adding up projected WAR, having 7 guys who provide legitimate positive value in the rotation adds up. 

We'll see how it works out in practice. 

br, how much is this a conclusion dictated by the way the system works?  I don't know how it works, but I wonder if there isn't something going on in how they do it.  For example:

Do they factor in that Garza and Baker are actually injured?  The healthy, durable  Garza of the past gave one rate of WAR; do we expect him to produce that much WAR when he's going to miss the first month this year, and we don't actually know whether his arm will actually be healthy once his oblique or whatever is? 

I guess what I'm wondering is, do they just take guys, their 3-year WAR average, add in some age factor, and pump out the projected numbers?  Or do they have a factor that downgrades the projected WAR for guys coming off long disablements and in Baker's case surgery?  The past is a nice predictor of the future, of course, but not as much when injuries change the ability. 

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Re: Cubs in '13
« Reply #674 on: March 25, 2013, 07:27:45 pm »
Craig--I know the ZIPS projections do take injuries into account.  It's based on aging patterns in comparable players, plus has a factor for missed time and injuries.  I'm not sure how the other part (Steamer projections) works.

Their depth charts also are used to estimate how much they're likely to pitch, and those take injuries into account.  It has Garza at 151 innings and Baker at 87 innings.