Bleacher Bums Forum

Dave-I'll ask you again. You ignored the question that tests your argument. You say nobody could lose skills after being moved off a more difficult position to a less demanding position for a couple years and that returning to that position as a regular and playing well there is no problem.

So, with 115 years of baseball history since 1900, give me 5 or 6 examples. First you said Rose was good at 3B; now you concede maybe he wasn't. If anybody can do it, give me the examples. Simple question. You have from 1900 to 2015. Better if we leave out outlier Hall of Famers but that's a start. Waiting.

I have been painfully reading thru this thread, and I don't recall davep ever writing that Rose was good at 3B.  Rose played it tolerably and the move there helped his team.  That is rather different from saying he played it well.  Rose never really played ANY position particularly well, and at 2B and 3B was never much more than tolerable with the glove.  I don't recall davep, or anyone else, ever writing anything different.

It amazes me that anyone continues to discuss these things with you.  Facts have no effect.  Logic has no effect.  You merely throw as much shit as possible against the wall just to see if any of it sticks.

Dave is a very smart guy and knows quite a lot about baseball, so I find myself rather stunned by his position on this.

Reb is right.  Dave is wrong.

That said, yes, as an example, Kris Bryant could probably play OF for five years and move back to 3B afterward to play what would likely be very bad defense by major league standards.  Would two out of every ten chances result in an error?  Probably not - as Curt said, he's a major league baseball player and a fine athlete.  But there's a reason we almost never see this and, when we do, it's driven by extraordinary circumstances.

If Dave's position is limited to what I describe above, fine.  If, for example, he thinks that Addison Russell could play first base for five years and then move back to shortstop and once again become a top-flight defender, sorry but there's not much evidence to defend such a contention.

Biggio was minus 39 Runs Saved 2005-2006-2007 when he returned to 2B. He was bad defensively there, but was an institution in Houston and, of course, a future HOFer. Lost his 2B skills, not surprisingly considering his age. Biggio is one of my all time favorite opposing players but he is yet another bad example and proves the opposite of your point.

Is that it? You keep saying anybody can do this and you have 115 years of baseball history to work with.

Moving there from catcher and being good doesn't count?  I think his defensive decline at that point had more to do with age. You think otherwise even though he had done it before?

Edit...notice you do mention age.  I consider it all age related decline, otherwise, how could he have moved there in first place from catcher.  if he can move there from catcher with good defense, he can from outfield if hadn't been near retirement age.

it actually seems like most of these guys being mentioned having lost certain position skills are pretty old.  and defense generally ages pretty quickly.  Why i think bryant might be ok as long as he is still in his 20's.

Biggio was minus 39 Runs Saved 2005-2006-2007 when he returned to 2B. He was bad defensively there, but was an institution in Houston and, of course, a future HOFer. Lost his 2B skills, not surprisingly considering his age. Biggio is one of my all time favorite opposing players but he is yet another bad example and proves the opposite of your point.

It would only prove the opposite of his point if your defensive metrics were a meaningful reflection of defensive performance AND if they reflected a loss of skills as a result of playing the OF and not as a result of age-related decline.

Nice piece on Arrieta by Jerry Crasnick.

I saw that.  Are they all based in LA?  I'm probably biased toward Arrieta, but I would still take Kershaw over Greinke. 

It's pretty crappy that the Cubs wouldn't get home field advantage in the NLCS even though they would have the better record.