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General Category => Archives => Topic started by: Dave23 on August 03, 2015, 09:25:08 am

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on December 01, 2015, 12:59:23 pm

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  7m7 minutes ago
The #Cubs were only top 10 payroll team to win a playoff series. They were 10th at $155.08 million. http://usat.ly/1HE7Okg
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: AZSteve on November 17, 2015, 07:16:29 pm
Lol...good one Curt
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on November 17, 2015, 12:59:26 pm
Lifted this from ESPN.

Q: how many pitchouts did Cubs pitchers throw in 2015?

A: three

The game has changed.
Angel Hernandez called two of them strikes.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on November 17, 2015, 12:56:54 pm
Wow!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on November 17, 2015, 12:38:13 pm
Lifted this from ESPN.

Q: how many pitchouts did Cubs pitchers throw in 2015?

A: three

The game has changed.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on November 04, 2015, 09:12:26 pm
Ranod fluctuation and statitical noise likely explains a good part of it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on November 04, 2015, 11:02:46 am
I looked it up and the Cubs K% was 25% in those situations, so roughly what they did during the season.  If they had a K% at 20% it would be an additional 17 balls in play.  17% would be an extra 27 balls in play.  I don't think the striking out explains all of the Cubs trouble.

A lot of this gets into the Ghostbuster don't cross the streams territory.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on November 04, 2015, 10:40:45 am
The Cubs had 331 plate appearances with a man at third and less than two outs.  If they drove in the runner at third 40 percent of the time, they scored the man at third 132.4 times, while the league average of 51 percent scored him 168.81 times, a difference of 36.41 runs.  Certainly not an insignificant number.

But it isn't the entire story.  In those 331 plate appearances with a man on third and two outs, a portion of them also had a man on second or first, or sometimes both.  Did the Cubs ever hit a three or even four run home run while the competition hit a single, only scoring one run?  Did they ever get a double scoring the guy from first as well as third, while the others got a single, scoring only one run?

It would be interesting to know how many total runs the Cubs scored after having a runner at third and less than two outs, as well as the merely the number of times they scored one run in that situation.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on November 04, 2015, 09:48:39 am
Thanks for passing that along, Playtwo.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on November 04, 2015, 08:05:13 am
Excerpt from an article on contact by Sharma:

"So if their offense got better when they were actually making less contact, why should they care about improving that aspect of their team? The fact is they could have been even better if they were a stronger contact-hitting team. If you want to put numbers to it, it’s quite simple. The Cubs were third in the NL with 331 plate appearances with a runner on third and less than two outs. For many of us, this is looked at as a situation where a run must score. The reality is, last season the league average for converting on those opportunities was 51 percent. The Cubs, however, converted at a 40 percent rate, dead last in baseball by a significant margin. Think about that: the Cubs had the third-most opportunities in baseball with a runner on third and failed three-fifths of the time. Not only is that unacceptable, but it really shows us how the Cubs—by rectifying one clear weakness—could go from a very strong offense to an elite one."

The full article:  http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2015/11/02/contact-probably-not-key-to-world-peace-might-help-the-cubs-win-anyway/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on November 02, 2015, 10:09:11 pm
And if Baez and Soler hit like they may be able to to, 97-wins-per-year  with 1500K may be an annual and acceptable thing.   



I'll take it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on November 02, 2015, 08:28:22 pm

...Cubs leading league in Ks by huge margin in an era of Ks dwarfing other eras in Ks--no, I would not assume that's inevitable. Just get it down to something a bit more manageable.  Reduce Ks by near 200 and you can do this.  ...
Certainly true that Ks going way up in last 10 seasons. Average NL team Ks: 2015:  1278 (Cubs 1518)
....

1.  I'm just thinking that we're not going to both add Baez and reduce K's by 200.  If we're going to play Baez and Bryant regularly, being at least 100K's above league average may need to be accepted as normal.  But yeah, hopefully we can cut back here and there, without sacrificing the good stuff people contribute. 

2.  If we replace some low value low-K Herrera AB's with some better-value high-K Baez AB's, I'm good with that!  :)  Even if the K's go up higher still in those AB's! 

3.  If we replace a lot of good-value Fowler AB's, the K's may well go down but I'm not sure we'll be a better team as a result.  Fowler was a very good contributor for us, as was high-K Montero. The purpose is still to have as good a team as possible, so let's not lose sight of the big goal.  Reducing the K's but weakening the team has limited appeal....

4.  "Denorfia/A. Jackson/Baxter/Lake/Alcantara/Olt had 126 Ks in only 486 Pas".  OK, I'm not contesting the value of replacing Olt/Alcantara/Lake and their no value high-K AB's!  Although I'd be fine if Baez replaced all 486 of those PA's, even if he doesn't reduce the K-rate at all.  (Which I doubt he would, if given that many AB.)  But if LaStella was picking up 250 of those AB while hitting .290, that would be just fine. 

5.  Agree that Bryant might cut down some.  Soler and Russell could each cut down significantly.  I suspect Schwarber could also cut down some if he made that a priority. 

6.  Schwarber, Soler, Russell, as well as Bryant I think all three have the capacity to naturally improve.  Plus each has the capacity to cut down their swings situationally.  Each also has the capacity to adjust approach and swing more aggressively early in counts and reduce their 2-strike counts.  To what degree possibly associated reductions in walks and/or HR's would offset some of the advantages is unclear to me. 

7.  If 1278 is league average, I'd love to get it down to 1400 without otherwise compromising anything good.  Still not sure how realistic that is if the present five youngsters all play full-time.  Not sure 1450, for example, would be unacceptable on a yearly basis if that's the price of doing business and if those five guys are hitting ≥125 HR's with the three infielders all playing good defense. 

8.  Not sure they'll get a deal for Baez that they'll want, or Soler.  Think it's pretty likely both will be back this year, K's and all.  And if Baez and Soler hit like they may be able to to, 97-wins-per-year  with 1500K may be an annual and acceptable thing.   
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on November 02, 2015, 08:07:14 pm
Haren is currently in Bill James top 50 pitchers list.

There are currently 74 pitcher in the HOF.

Would anyone like to make book on whether Haren joins that list?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on November 02, 2015, 06:49:53 pm
Is it unreasonable to expect young players to meaningfully improve their K rates with more ML experience?

Rizzo except for 2009 and a couple small sample sizes was a low 20% K% guy in the minors. When he was traded to the Cubs he's been 18%, until this year when it dropped to 15%.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on November 02, 2015, 06:12:19 pm
 
Good chance we do.  K's are at a historic record league-wide, no?  Especially if Baez remains part of the core or gets incorporated into the core;  Baez/Bryant/Schwarber/Russell, hard to compile a more K-oriented core than that.   A max-K core in a max-K era, historically high K's may be almost inevitable?  I imagine in past, a max-K group would get reshuffled to address that.  If they were to keep a Baez/Bryant/Schwarber/Russell core together for 5-6 years, isn't it almost more probable than not that the Cubs should be expected to compile the highest 5-year K-collection in baseball history? 

Well, it's one thing if there's a player leading the league in HRs for a 5-year period and then there's Babe Ruth leading the AL in homers in 1920 and beyond--and obliterating everybody else including entire teams.  Cubs leading league in Ks by huge margin in an era of Ks dwarfing other eras in Ks--no, I would not assume that's inevitable. Just get it down to something a bit more manageable.

Reduce Ks by near 200 and you can do this.  It can be done in one season with the right guys but a 5-year period? Why not?  Montero/Ross had 164 Ks this season in 585 PAs. Even parts of the bench had too many Ks:  Denorfia/A. Jackson/Baxter/Lake/Alcantara/Olt had 126 Ks in only 486 PAs.  Fowler was 2nd on club in Ks and likely will be gone. Pretty confident that Russell will cut down on Ks.  Russell had 59 Ks/323 PAs in high minors, so would not assume can't cut down after an age 21 season in majors.  Would expect Bryant to follow perhaps Stanton--who struck out 31.1% rookie season and about 28% thereafter career. Expect Schwarber to cut down at least slightly.  Guessing either Baez or Soler will be gone. Don't think historically high Ks going forward is inevitable.

Certainly true that Ks going way up in last 10 seasons. Average NL team Ks:

2015:  1278 (Cubs 1518)

2010:  1193

2005:  1055
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on November 02, 2015, 06:11:28 pm
If I understand some of the above posts, when you adjust for the fact that the the Royals have a DH, while the Cubs have pitchers and pinch hitters, they each scored pretty much the same numbers of runs.  Certainly, they each arrived at it by different methods, but the results were pretty much the same.

When all is said and done, it is only the results that matter.  Would the Cubs be a better team if they reduced strike outs, and kept everything the same?  Of course.  But would everything be kept the same?  Who knows.  The Royals struck out much less than the Cubs, but arrived at roughly the same production level, because in order to do that, they sacrificed something else - power.

The Cubs, like every team, should always try to improve their overall production, whether it is offense or defense (including pitching).  But it is not always clear that a specific action will improve the team, if you have to sacrifice other things to gain that improvement.

There is always the chance that the team will make a blockbuster trade if one presents itself.  But I don't think that they are in the situation that they feel they have to, merely to reduce strike outs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on November 02, 2015, 05:37:29 pm
Is it unreasonable to expect young players to meaningfully improve their K rates with more ML experience?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on November 02, 2015, 05:16:04 pm
Good chance we do.  K's are at a historic record league-wide, no?  Especially if Baez remains part of the core or gets incorporated into the core;  Baez/Bryant/Schwarber/Russell, hard to compile a more K-oriented core than that.   A max-K core in a max-K era, historically high K's may be almost inevitable?  I imagine in past, a max-K group would get reshuffled to address that.  If they were to keep a Baez/Bryant/Schwarber/Russell core together for 5-6 years, isn't it almost more probable than not that the Cubs should be expected to compile the highest 5-year K-collection in baseball history? 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on November 02, 2015, 02:18:01 pm
Other thing is that we saw in the Series that base runners can advance in crucial situations on batted ball outs and that putting balls in play puts some pressure on the defense---sometimes resulting in big errors. Put another way, it's not all measurable with OBP or other stats. Mostly, but not entirely. What's not always measurable sometimes wins the ballgame. Even BIG games.

Also, Cubs really improved their base running in 2015, and were more aggressive running bases, but the historically high Ks made it tougher to take advantage. The notion that Ks are just another form of an out--no problem--should be considered discredited. Ks are bad. Putting balls in play--even if most result in outs--is better.

So, let's K a bit less in 2016 and balance the offense a bit better. This is a homer/BB/K core but we don't have to endure historically high Ks.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on November 02, 2015, 02:02:14 pm
Just something to add in comparing the Cubs and Royals offenses.

The Cubs had a .244 BA to go with a .321 OBP in 6,200 PA.

The Royals had a .269 BA to go with a .322 OBP in 6,116 PA. 

They both had roughly the same OBP, but the Royals had an OBP that was more hit heavy. 

The Cubs need to be better at getting base hits next season.  Hopefully that'll come with just some of the natural improvement of the young players, but I still think it's still falls in line with hit heavy OBP's being better than walk heavy OBP's. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on November 02, 2015, 12:43:08 pm
Haren is currently in Bill James top 50 pitchers list.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on November 01, 2015, 02:23:52 pm
Dan Haren ranks seventh all time in strikeout-to-walk ratio.

Wow.

And I used to think that was actually a very meaningful stat.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on November 01, 2015, 10:48:26 am
Dan Haren ranks seventh all time in strikeout-to-walk ratio.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on November 01, 2015, 10:35:11 am
It was announced last week that Dan Haren was officially retiring.  No shocker.  I was surprised at what a super career he had.  3 All Star games, 3.47 ERA, and he is in an elite small group with a W against all 30 MLB teams.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 31, 2015, 06:36:20 pm
There are many leagues running simultaneously.  Both "classic" (historical) and replays of modern seasons. I'm just guessing...but I would say there are scores of historical leagues running at any one time. Some are "standard", some are "custom" leagues with an amazing array of varieties. I'm thinking middle aged baseball geeks trying to relive their stratomatic childhood.

As far as how I've done? I'm leader board...barely...but the leader board is the top 500 players.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 31, 2015, 06:10:36 pm
I hate the offseason

http://www.imaginesports.com/

It looks interesting.

How have you done?  And how many leagues are there?  Are there league for each season (meaning would there be a league organized for each of the past seasons of MLB)?  How long does a person need to wait after picking a team before the season starts?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 31, 2015, 06:01:43 pm
Extending Arrietta makes a lot of sense from the Cubs' perspective - except for the cost.  He may be almost 30 but he has low mileage and won't be carrying a TJS anniversary in a few years.  If it were possible to lock him up for the long-term at a remotely reasonable cost I don't know why you wouldn't do it.  But it's almost certainly not going to be possible.

You don't know what it would cost until you try to do it.

I am not saying that extending him should be the team's top priority, but merely mentioned Arietta as a player the Cubs might possibly be interested in response to a post suggesting there is really no one else the Cubs even might have any real interest in extending.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 31, 2015, 05:56:53 pm
Extending Arietta makes no sense and isn't going to happen this winter.  Completely unrealistic. 

Let's just say about the only thing we appear to agree on is how to spell Arietta's name.

It certainly MAY not happen, and may well even be unlikely, but that is more than a bit different from making no sense, that it isn't going to happen, or that it is completely unrealistic.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 31, 2015, 05:47:42 pm
Not advocating giving 700 PAs to Tommy La Stella but there are productive players out there who strike out less than 100 times and when you have positions striking out 165-189 times, why not fill those vacant spots with guys who do some things that your power guys don't do well.


The question remains one of which player brings the most to the table and provides the most value to the team.

If someone who K's 180 times a year offers an anticipated WAR of 7, it makes much more sense to add him that someone who K's 80 times a year but offers an anticipated WAR of 4.  If the Cubs had the option of adding high-K (for the time) Mickey Mantle as its CFer for 2016 or low-K Joe DiMaggio in his prime, I would hope the Cubs would go with the 11.2 WAR triple crown Mantle, instead of the 9.1 WAR 56-game hitting streak DiMaggio.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 31, 2015, 05:19:22 pm
I hate the offseason

http://www.imaginesports.com/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 31, 2015, 05:05:37 pm
Extending Arrietta makes a lot of sense from the Cubs' perspective - except for the cost.  He may be almost 30 but he has low mileage and won't be carrying a TJS anniversary in a few years.  If it were possible to lock him up for the long-term at a remotely reasonable cost I don't know why you wouldn't do it.  But it's almost certainly not going to be possible.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 31, 2015, 04:58:20 pm
I don't get the idea of spending big bucks on a corner OF

I'm not the biggest fan of this, but I wonder if they question if Soler will ever feel comfortable playing in cold weather?  That and getting a cost controlled pitcher like Carrasco or a Archer and not giving up much more would be the only reason in my head that would make sense.

Another thing that has been is trading the Padres Castro, Hendricks, Villanueva and somebody like Happ or Jimenez for Ross. Too much, too little, just right? If Ross is second pitcher to compliment say Price or Carrasco that would be a pretty fun rotation.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 31, 2015, 04:37:26 pm
While Boras/Arrieta may not be interested in an extension, it seems to me to make a lot of sense for the Cubs to try to do so. What am I missing?

The Cubs already control him through what are likely to be his best season. He won't be a free agent until 32.  the Cubs would likely be paying free agent prices for mostly his decline years. CCO also had a bit about the Cubs believing left handed pitchers will age better.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 31, 2015, 04:03:04 pm
Extending Arietta makes no sense and isn't going to happen this winter.  Completely unrealistic. 

While Boras/Arrieta may not be interested in an extension, it seems to me to make a lot of sense for the Cubs to try to do so. What am I missing?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 31, 2015, 03:34:20 pm
Extending Arietta makes no sense and isn't going to happen this winter.  Completely unrealistic. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 31, 2015, 03:08:49 pm
(Also, I'm not sure who we have to extend, other than Fowler and Cahill.  Hammel?  Motte?  Wood?) 

Arietta might be high on the list.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 31, 2015, 03:04:12 pm
I don't get the idea of spending big bucks on a corner OF......I'd be looking to spend money in house on extensions first.

Not sure I'm following.  Trading basically exchanges talent but doesn't add/create talent.  Extending guys doesn't add/create talent. 

If you want to create/add new talent, free agent $$$ provides that opportunity.  Buying a pitcher is the simple, direct path. But if you don't like the age/value/length/talent available for FA pitchers, signing a FA OFer while trading Baez/Soler provides an indirect pathway to convert $$$ into talent, while adding a younger shorter-contract pitcher without weakening your lineup. 

(Also, I'm not sure who we have to extend, other than Fowler and Cahill.  Hammel?  Motte?  Wood?) 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 31, 2015, 02:55:12 pm
Other point is that I suspect a more one-dimensional offense, with historically high-Ks, is not a good thing in post-season. Don't want to make too much of Cubs meltdown in Mets series---it's just 4 games--but am big believer in having different ways to score.

Also strongly suspect that the high Ks/lack of contact helped undermine ability to score runs in RISP/2 outs and overall strand rate. Many situations where ball in play could have scored runner on third with less than 2 outs. Too many hittable pitches taken for strikes. Don't want to remake Cubs core into KC offense but surely some lessons to be learned from them and from regrettable Mets NLCS.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 31, 2015, 02:54:35 pm
Get a CF. See if you can pry away Kimbrel and Cashner from SD. See what you can do on the FA pitching market. Keep your cheap, team-controlled talent in house.

If the Cubs really don't like how one of Soler, Baez, etc., projects, great, trade them and maximize value. But you can do that without making an enormous commitment to a FA OF. I'd be looking to spend money in house on extensions first.


If Fowler does not accept what is likely to be a very Cub-friendly offer, I suspect the Cubs will simply let him leave without any real effort to sign him.  And if the Cubs do not then find a very lop-sided trade for a CFer, or end up with a rather surprising FA signing, I suspect they will follow the approach you suggest and keep their cheap, team-controlled talent in house and put it in CF until Almora arrives.  As I have said for the last three months, I think there is a very good chance Baez will be used as a utility player in 2016, with a number of starts (perhaps the bulk of the starts for the first three months) in CF.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 31, 2015, 02:40:20 pm
Reb, I don't disagree that the Cubs are going to look to decrease K's. I disagree with you about how meaningful the change is going to be.

Let's say the Cubs bring in 2/3 of Span/Heyward/Zobrist. If I read your numbers correctly that would reduce the Cubs K's by 168. Let's give them a BABIP of .330 on those K's now balls in play. I'll round up and say that will add 56 hits. That would be an extra 0.35 hits/game. With a decrease in HR's it is certainly possible that the Cubs could score less runs. Unless you are going to get the Cubs into Royals/Giants territory of K%, it is just making improvements on the margins.

Another way to look at this is you could give the Cubs a hit/inning (single/double/triple) in every games and increase their hit totals by 1,458 and you wouldn't guareentee the Cubs one extra run without proper sequencing.

Not talking about substituting a generic low-K guy for an incumbent more productive high-K guy. Or, put another way, not advocating downgrading a position, overall--including defense-- intentionally.

The guys I mentioned are likely superior WAR players overall and help balance out a weakness in the club's profile. Fine with more Ks than average NL--with homers and walks. Love homers and walks but there is lack of balance on this club. Dwarfed 2nd worst K club. So, when a couple positions become vacant, a good idea to seek replacement guys who profile supporting a more balanced offense.

Point is you can do this without disturbing club's core. You can reduce by 200 Ks. That would make Cubs about 50 Ks more than NL average--which is no problem.

Diversification is good. More ways to score runs. Putting balls in play helps score runs, even without hits. Move baserunners. Score some runs on outs. Put more pressure on defense. Not advocating a small ball offense but rather an offense that can score without a walk and a homer.  So, this is not entirely a matter of counting up hits. Lots of different ways to score runs, rather than being a one-trick pony.

Not advocating giving 700 PAs to Tommy La Stella but there are productive players out there who strike out less than 100 times and when you have positions striking out 165-189 times, why not fill those vacant spots with guys who do some things that your power guys don't do well.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 31, 2015, 01:27:11 pm
Dave, I said LA CALLS, not us.  I also said it was an extreme example. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 31, 2015, 01:12:44 pm
Seager's gonna play 3rd, and Urias isn't far off...I'm not sure who says no there...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 31, 2015, 12:54:05 pm
I agree with the first sentence.

I wouldn't take Cashner back for the waiver cost, much less more.

And you trade value for value.  If LA calls and offers Kershaw for Russell, you do it.  Don't get wound up...just an extreme example.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 31, 2015, 12:52:55 pm
I'm not sure about Kimbrel and Cashner, but I pretty much agree with everything else, tico.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on October 31, 2015, 12:49:26 pm
I don't get the idea of spending big bucks on a corner OF.

Schwarber, Baez, Soler, Coghlan, Baez, Bryant... Even if the deal someone for pitching, there are still a million options. Get a CF. See if you can pry away Kimbrel and Cashner from SD. See what you can do on the FA pitching market. Keep your cheap, team-controlled talent in house.

If the Cubs really don't like how one of Soler, Baez, etc., projects, great, trade them and maximize value. But you can do that without making an enormous commitment to a FA OF. I'd be looking to spend money in house on extensions first.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 31, 2015, 10:37:13 am
Reb, I don't disagree that the Cubs are going to look to decrease K's. I disagree with you about how meaningful the change is going to be.

Let's say the Cubs bring in 2/3 of Span/Heyward/Zobrist. If I read your numbers correctly that would reduce the Cubs K's by 168. Let's give them a BABIP of .330 on those K's now balls in play. I'll round up and say that will add 56 hits. That would be an extra 0.35 hits/game. With a decrease in HR's it is certainly possible that the Cubs could score less runs. Unless you are going to get the Cubs into Royals/Giants territory of K%, it is just making improvements on the margins.

Another way to look at this is you could give the Cubs a hit/inning (single/double/triple) in every games and increase their hit totals by 1,458 and you wouldn't guareentee the Cubs one extra run without proper sequencing.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on October 30, 2015, 11:59:35 pm
I hate the offseason
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 10:59:18 pm
So the idea, I take it, is that this is in concert with Contreras at C and Almora at CF, right?

No, not necessarily.

Let's say, for sake of discussion, Cubs sign Span for CF. He averages 83 Ks per 162 game season of 729 PAs. Cubs had 165 Ks in CF in 2015. That's a reduction of 82 Ks at one position.

Zobrist in a corner OF to replace Soler. That's a reduction of 86 Ks (Zobrist career of 103/per 682 PAs). Heyward would be similar reduction. Cubs had 189 Ks in RF.

That alone gets Cubs way, way down from horrible to below average. Bit of improvement from Bryant/ Russell---closer.

Yes, fewer homers... But better defense.

I suppose possibly could get similar reduction from Contreras and Almora. Let's see what happens at AAA with them. Point is that there is nothing inevitable about the historically high Ks going forward. If you want to do it, you can do it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 10:37:50 pm
just so there is no confusion, CBJ "conveniently" left out how Cubs performed with RISP/2outs. Batted .211, slugged .332, with OPS of .665---all dramatically below other benchmarks. Lot of PAs too:  766. To those who watched the games, we know this was deficient. Not enough good contact.



Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 30, 2015, 09:58:28 pm
Cubs absolutely can significantly reduce team Ks---not just at margins. Certainly by 2017.

In 2015:
CF  165 Ks
RF  189  Ks
C   178  Ks

If Cubs choose to trade Soler, these positions are open in 2016/2017. You can reduce each position by 50 Ks. 150 K reduction at these positions. Bryant struck out 199 times---would have been about 210 if didn't miss early April. Think he can easily get down to 170 or less. Russell can reduce too.

Now, you are down to where Pirates are in Ks and maybe 40-50 more Ks than NL average. Absolutely doable if Theo makes an effort.

So the idea, I take it, is that this is in concert with Contreras at C and Almora at CF, right?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 30, 2015, 09:57:31 pm
Cubs 2015 OPS .714
0 Outs 179 R .735 OPS
1 Out   236 R .705 OPS
2 Outs  274 R .717
RISP 487 R .714 OPS

Royals .734 OPS
0 Outs 162 Runs .713 OPS
1 Out   261 Runs .714 OPS
2 Outs  301 Runs .776 OPS
RISP  547 Runs .772 OPS

Seems the Royals out performed themselves with 2 outs and RISP. While the Cubs were basically themselves. If you want to draw a conclusion, it is likely the Royals won't be as productive next year.

Looking at how bad the Cubs pitchers and pinch hitters performed last year, I compared the Nationals, DBacks, Padres, and Pirates K numbers for their 1-8 hitters.
Cubs 1288, Nationals 1172, Padres 1122, DBacks 1123. With some improvement from the young kids the Cubs could get awfully close to those numbers.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 08:56:54 pm
Royals outscored Cubs 724-689.

Over past three seasons, average AL team has outscored average NL team by 42 runs per season. Basically, that's difference of DH in AL and no-DH in NL.

So, Cubs and Royals were similar in scoring runs in regular season---in very different ways, but acored about the same. That's the context. You would, therefore, expect somewhat similar runs scoring in broad categories comprised of many plate appearances. Commin sense.

So, dramatic difference in getting runs in with RISP, 2 outs speaks volumes. Cubs didn't hit too often when they needed to. Not enough contact and not enough runs scoring on batted ball outs. Not enough productive outs.

Nobody is saying Cubs should remake themselves as the Royals. But, can do some things more similar to Royals here and there.

Next question is whether Royals-type offense better suited to post-season. Don't know answer to that but suspect that historically high-K team operating at a disadvantage in post-season.

Guessing that Theo/Hoyer will address this.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 08:36:56 pm
Cubs absolutely can significantly reduce team Ks---not just at margins. Certainly by 2017.

In 2015:

CF  165 Ks

RF  189  Ks

C   178  Ks

If Cubs choose to trade Soler, these positions are open in 2016/2017. You can reduce each position by 50 Ks. 150 K reduction at these positions. Bryant struck out 199 times---would have been about 210 if didn't miss early April. Think he can easily get down to 170 or less. Russell can reduce too.

Now, you are down to where Pirates are in Ks and maybe 40-50 more Ks than NL average. Absolutely doable if Theo makes an effort.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on October 30, 2015, 06:36:16 pm
Thanks Curt...great letter!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 30, 2015, 06:16:20 pm
Cubs.com letter from Tom Ricketts

Dear Cubs Fans,

Wow. What a season! A week later, it's still hard to put into words just how special this past year was for all of us.

On behalf of my family and the entire Cubs organization, we want to thank you. Without your patience and support, we never would have been able to begin building a championship-caliber team the right way.

From the many great team victories to some incredible individual performances, this team got us to believe in magic and showed us anything is possible when you set your mark high. Led by a dynamic, one-of-a-kind manager and fueled by youthful enthusiasm and remarkable talent, our team not only competed, but proved to be a real contender. With the third-best record in baseball, we experienced a 24-win turnaround from 2014 and our first postseason berth since 2008.

None of us will ever forget our October games. The vibe in the ballpark was electric thanks to your constant energy. With every "Go Cubs Go" chorus and every W flag flown, the team felt your support. Defeating the Cardinals in our first-ever postseason matchup and clinching a series at Wrigley Field for the first time in franchise history was truly incredible. While we fell short against the Mets in the National League Championship Series, our ultimate goal remains - to win a World Series. Now more than ever, I believe we are in position to pursue and accomplish that goal.

During this past year, we also made solid progress toward our second goal of preserving Wrigley Field. Again, thank you for your patience. The new video boards debuted to rave reviews, and the Budweiser Bleachers are back and better than ever with upgraded amenities and new group spaces. This offseason will be just as productive as we work to complete our new state-of-the-art clubhouse and Wrigley Field ticket office. Most importantly, the work you won't necessarily see is the continued replacement of the steel and concrete that will allow Wrigley Field to stand for the next generation of Cubs fans.

In addition to the tremendous progress we made on the field this season, we also made great strides in the community. The generosity of our players, fans, partners and neighbors was felt far beyond the Friendly Confines and helped us further our third goal of being a good neighbor. Our team and Cubs Charities are on track to donate more than $1.5 million this year. Cubs Charities signature programs - Cubs Scholars, Cubs on the Move Fitness Program and the Diamond Project - continued to thrive as we welcomed our third class of scholars, launched an online fitness curriculum available to more than 1 million Chicago kids and awarded nearly $500,000 in grants to improve the quality and safety of local baseball fields.

In 2015, we also saw past contributions come to life as we helped open Margaret Donahue Park and Kerry Wood Cubs Field. These wonderful community assets are enhancing the quality of life in our community and providing local athletes with a place to improve their skills while fostering their love of the game.

It is certainly encouraging to take a minute to look back and celebrate what we were able to accomplish together on and off the field. Now that our 2015 season is in the record books, there is no need to worry about predictions and going "Back to the Future." The future is now. We are ready to carry the momentum into 2016 and continue this special journey with you.

Let's Go Cubs,

Tom Ricketts
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 30, 2015, 04:45:55 pm
....Something to consider when comparing these numbers
Cubs pitchers 374 PA .114/.148/.164  .313 OPS
Cubs PH         287 PA .201/.274/.317   .590 OPS
Royals DH       646 PA .287/.353/.477  .830 OPS
Royals PH +P= 67 PA


Very good point. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 30, 2015, 04:42:56 pm
I'd be all for the Cubs keeping the HR and walks and losing the strikeouts.  Like Craig said this is going to be on the periphery, unless you want to get rid of some really good players.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 30, 2015, 04:33:45 pm
....So, some can moan and groan about bad hitting luck in NLCS and try to obfuscate what is actually going on, the truth is that ridiculously high Ks is something to avoid, if possible, and 2-strike counts suck. 

Let's keep the homers and walks and do something about the weaker components of the offense.  We know what those are.

Not sure how possible that's going to be.  Obviously all intertwined.  Hard to know whether there's anything much that can be done about it.  As I noted, I think some of the young guys can probably improve in marginal ways.  But Bryant is always going to K like mad and swing-and-miss a ton.  Baez, whether with us or somebody else, is always going to swing-and-miss a lot and K like made.  I think Russell and Soler each have a chance to reduce the swing-and-miss and their K-rates substantially; but Russell will probably always be a pretty high swing-and-miss guy, even if not necessarily to the Bryant/Baez extreme.  Schwarber may improve some, too, I think, but he's almost certainly going to remain a very high-whiffer too.  I suppose one hope is that some will get more "respect" benefits from ball-strike umps? 

At the team level, they tried to address it by adding a guy like LaStella.  Not sure he's been a big board favorite yet.  Maybe if he's healthy all year next year, we'll end up liking him, hard to guess.  Adding Baez as a season-long guy, perhaps as a regular starter, could amp up the contact issue substantially.  So, in a sense it really should get worse, before it gets better. 

As Ron noted, if down the road Montero and Fowler were gone with Almora and Contreras in their places, those would be some lower-K guys, although Almora also dropping the walks/power/OBP at the same time probably. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 30, 2015, 04:32:10 pm
Small Numbers

Cubs
2 Strikes 0.069
Batter Ahead 0.11
Batter Even 0.13
Batter Behind 0.086

Royals
2 strikes 0.085
Ahead 0.137
Even   0.124
Benhind 0.094

Something to consider when comparing these numbers
Cubs pitchers 374 PA .114/.148/.164  .313 OPS
Cubs PH         287 PA .201/.274/.317   .590 OPS
Royals DH       646 PA .287/.353/.477  .830 OPS
Royals PH +P= 67 PA

* Cubs P K'd 151 times.  In 661 PA PH+P Accounted for 230 K (34.8%).  The accounted for 10.7% of Cubs PA and 15.2% of Cub strikeouts.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 04:18:24 pm
I think it's preferable for a young hitter to err on the side of patience (ala Bryant) rather than overaggressiveness.  Viewed in that way, it isn't too surprising that they were often in difficult 2-strike counts.  As they gain experience, they will learn to take fewer meatballs early in the count without becoming overaggressive.  That will translate into better postseason success.

Good hitters learn to guess. Guessing pitch type and location and what pitcher is trying to do.  Harder to guess when lack big league experience.  Hitters HAVE to guess.  Pitchers are just too good to just react without a plan of attack for the hitter.  So, patience vs. overaggressiveness, sure, but a lot going on out there.

Greatest hitter of last 75 years was Ted Williams and everybody should listen to Ted Williams when he talked about guessing.  Basic point is that if you're not guessing, you are not applying your accumulated knowledge about the pitcher, the count, the overall hitting situation.  You are just reacting--and that's not good enough. Williams was adamant about hitters learning to guess.

So, when looking at Cubs young hitters, I would like to think that all of them are smart enough and will work hard to become better at guessing.  Bryant, in particular, I'm confident will get better.  He seemed to be fooled a lot and the more he learns, the better he will become at guessing. 

Guessing is just another form of learning to adjust at the big league level.  On the pitcher side of things, Maddux was a master guesser, right?  Had uncanny knack of out-thinking the hitter.  So, Cubs young hitters have to learn to guess better. 

When you see a hitter who is totally clueless, such as Baez in 2014 when he was striking out a 280 K pace, the hitter isn't even in a position to guess.  He is so clueless with his approach, that just reacting virtually 100% of time.  Dead meat.

Of course, good guessing is helped by getting into good hitters counts.  Tough to guess with two strikes.  But, we all have seen what Rizzo does lately there and it's a form of guessing too--the adjustments that he makes.

Sometimes we see a hitter take a good pitch to hit and wonder why.  Often, the hitter just guessed wrong and not ready to take a good swing. It happens--even to Ted Williams.  Lost that one.

Better guessing for Cubs young hitters--with experience and better hitting acumen--maybe those pitches will be hit hard.  Somewhat fewer Ks too by putting ball in play before reaching two-strike counts.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: method on October 30, 2015, 03:59:46 pm
So I wanted to see what the besides the difference in OPS what the runs production and strike outs for the Cubs was

Cubs- 689 runs
2 strikes 233 runs, 1518 K's
0 strikes 220 runs
Batter Ahead 243 runs, 234 K's
Even  271 runs, 459 K's
Pitcher Ahead 175 runs, 825 K's

Royals- 724 runs
2 strikes- 239, 973 K
0 strikes- 234 runs
Batter Ahead- 274 runs, 144 K's
Even 264 runs, 257 K's
Pitcher Ahead 186 runs, 572 K's

With 2 strikes 6 runs, with the pitcher ahead 11 runs. 

need to add in PA to make this more meaning full imo.. need to standarize to runs/pa
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 03:52:32 pm
Keep in mind that Cubs drew 567 walks in 2015 and Royals drew 383 walks.  That is an enormous # of baserunners to the advantage of Cubs.  And, of course, Cubs outhomer Royals by a lot.

So, the modest difference in runs and counts between these clubs, noted above, is a product of Cubs drawing walks--even in two-strike counts.  So, if Fowler walks on a 3-2 pitch and Rizzo homers, Cubs get "credit" for a 2-strike run.  That is walking, not hitting. Can't emphasize that enough.  Walks are great but.....

It is very good that Cubs draw a lot of walks but lack of good contact hitting profile manifests itself in many ways--such as performance with 2 outs and runners in scoring position. Cubs still draw walks but hit miserably.  Cubs with RISP:  211-333-332.  Royals were 278-356-430.  Even though Royals had fewer 2 outs, RISP situations (725 to 766), Royals outscored Cubs 243 to 199 in these situations.  Royals even have much better iso power than Cubs in these situations.

And, of course, when you face better pitching in post-season, Cubs advantage in walks likely is going to be more modest.  Situational hitting becomes more important than in regular season.  Even the luck factor is advantageous to clubs who are good at putting the ball in play.

So, some can moan and groan about bad hitting luck in NLCS and try to obfuscate what is actually going on, the truth is that ridiculously high Ks is something to avoid, if possible, and 2-strike counts suck. 

Let's keep the homers and walks and do something about the weaker components of the offense.  We know what those are.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 30, 2015, 03:48:22 pm
I think it's preferable for a young hitter to err on the side of patience (ala Bryant) rather than overaggressiveness.  Viewed in that way, it isn't too surprising that they were often in difficult 2-strike counts.  As they gain experience, they will learn to take fewer meatballs early in the count without becoming overaggressive.  That will translate into better postseason success.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 30, 2015, 03:35:38 pm
Some practical questions:
1.  Can some of the young Cubs improve their pitch recognition?  Probably yes.  Unfamiliar pitcher has advantage.  Cub bats should get better at recognizing deliveries and pitch sequences. 
2.  Can some of the young Cubs improve as 2-strike hitters?  Probably yes, to limited degree.  There are techniques to cut down on swings in unfavorable counts. 
3.  Will some of the young Cubs become less patient earlier in counts?  I think variably yes.  Russell already adjusted in that direction, I think.  A concern of course is that guys will be so afraid of 2-strike counts that they unproductively chase on earlier counts.  But I think some could perhaps expand their "worth-swinging-at" scope earlier in counts to good effect. 
4.  Is there any possibility that if Baez is expected to be a regular starter, that the K-volume and the 2-strike ineffectiveness won't get more pronounced? 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 30, 2015, 03:33:06 pm
Seemed like too many ABs during course of season in which a Cubs hitter would take a pitch early in count--and I would say to myself "probably going to be best pitch to hit this AB"--and then a poor outcome to AB.  Those are the pitches Cubs hitters need to attack...and put in play more often. Easier said than done. Maybe fouled off too many good pitches to hit too.

Deep counts can be a good thing. But even 3 and 2 isn't a good hitting count because of all the Ks.  Great walking count (30% of 3-2 counts result in walks) but overall NL hitters batted .208 and slugged .334 even at 3 and 2.  Obviously, other two-strike counts were worse.

Said this a million times on the board over the years:  converse of a strikeout is a ball put in play--not an out in some other form.  Put the ball in play and sometimes good things happen.  Not to say that Cubs should emulate Royals:  different ballpark, different core of players.  Yes, Cubs great core is going to K quite a bit but you take that and work around it at open positions and get different profile guys for those spots.  Maybe trade a high K guy or two, other than the key core guys.  More of a balance.  No, don't want crappy low-K guys either but Theo can work with this. 

Really good analysis, I thought. And I agree that there seemed to be a lot of times when there was a strike taken early in the count (sometimes first pitch) that looked like a good pitch to hit, and likely to be the only one in that AB.  I would expect that the Cubs leadership noticed all of this and that steps will be taken. We may be surprised by at least one of them. Hope they are successful ones.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 30, 2015, 02:59:08 pm
So I wanted to see what the besides the difference in OPS what the runs production and strike outs for the Cubs was

Cubs- 689 runs
2 strikes 233 runs, 1518 K's
0 strikes 220 runs
Batter Ahead 243 runs, 234 K's
Even  271 runs, 459 K's
Pitcher Ahead 175 runs, 825 K's

Royals- 724 runs
2 strikes- 239, 973 K
0 strikes- 234 runs
Batter Ahead- 274 runs, 144 K's
Even 264 runs, 257 K's
Pitcher Ahead 186 runs, 572 K's

With 2 strikes 6 runs, with the pitcher ahead 11 runs. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 02:30:28 pm
...... Cubs OPS is awful (.466), but even the Royals are still only .573, and the crafty Cardinals .515.... 


Difference between #1 overall OPS club in NL (Rockies .748) and #15 overall OPS club in NL (Braves .674) was .74. Rockies outscored Braves by 164 runs.

Two-strike OPS difference between Royals and Cubs (.550 to .466) was .84---wider margin than between Rockies and Braves in overall OPS.

So, the two-strike performance spread is a heck of a lot.

This impacts how we view the overall Ks in the Cubs/Mets series too.  It's not just the actual Ks but hitting in bad hitters counts--even if outcome is not a K.  Having to hit in bad hitting counts sucks for hitters. Rizzo is a lifetime .182 hitter with 2 strikes (.537 OPS). The great Miguel Cabrera is a lifetime .230 hitter with two strikes.  Ryne Sandberg was .217 (.617 OPS). Andre Dawson at .218 lifetime (.602 OPS). 

Seemed like too many ABs during course of season in which a Cubs hitter would take a pitch early in count--and I would say to myself "probably going to be best pitch to hit this AB"--and then a poor outcome to AB.  Those are the pitches Cubs hitters need to attack...and put in play more often. Easier said than done. Maybe fouled off too many good pitches to hit too.

Deep counts can be a good thing. But even 3 and 2 isn't a good hitting count because of all the Ks.  Great walking count (30% of 3-2 counts result in walks) but overall NL hitters batted .208 and slugged .334 even at 3 and 2.  Obviously, other two-strike counts were worse.

Said this a million times on the board over the years:  converse of a strikeout is a ball put in play--not an out in some other form.  Put the ball in play and sometimes good things happen.  Not to say that Cubs should emulate Royals:  different ballpark, different core of players.  Yes, Cubs great core is going to K quite a bit but you take that and work around it at open positions and get different profile guys for those spots.  Maybe trade a high K guy or two, other than the key core guys.  More of a balance.  No, don't want crappy low-K guys either but Theo can work with this. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 30, 2015, 02:03:45 pm
I'm not really sure you can make anything of this, but here are the youngsters results with an 0-2 count (K%)

Schwarber  .146/.176/.354  (57.9)
Soler          .143/.178/.271  (52.9)
Baez           .125/.125/.292  (54.2)
Russell        .191/.221/.270  (50.1)

Rizzo           .210/.228/.266  (32.3)
Bryant         .190/.270/.358  (59.9)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 30, 2015, 01:06:45 pm
Thanks, reb.  Interesting that there's less scatter among the teams.  I thought the Cubs might have a much smaller sample of no-strike hitting, since they are so patient.  But their plate appearance with no-strike contact is only about 100 PA and 7% below average. 

And all the teams bunch how many 2-strike AB's they have:  KC lowest (only 2813) Cubs highest (3374).  I thought there might be a larger spread than that.  Cubs OPS is awful (.466), but even the Royals are still only .573, and the crafty Cardinals .515. 

I've always felt that when minor leaguers with low-walk problems like Corey or Colvin try to adapt, they do so by taking more pitches and K'ing lots more and HR lots less.  And when a guy with K-problems tries to adjust, it's usually less by becoming a gifted hitter than by swinging earlier, such that walks and power decline.   If your hitting ability and pitch recognition skill just isn't very good, you can adapt but there's only so much you can do.  I assume the Cubs could adapt and cut back on the K's if they just tried to swing earlier in the count.  I think Russell made some adjustments in that direction after the all-star break. 

Will be interesting to see whether Russell and Bryant adjust a bit by swinging more often and early.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 12:40:19 pm
Obviously, dramatic difference hitting with two strikes compared to hitting with no strikes. If you were giving a baseball statistical tutorial to a novice, you'd start by showing your student what hitters hit on each count.

Gammons website today has charts on this (see link). Cubs are amazing. Worst two-strike hitters in MLB and best no-strike hitters in MLB. And, get into most two-strike counts in MLB--which isn't too hot if you're going to be the worst group of two-strike hitters.

Of course, all the two-strike counts probably a factor in deep counts and high pitches per PA that Cubs rack up (and high walks), but quite a contrast between what Cubs do with two strikes and what KC does with two strikes. Also probably a factor in Cubs woes scoring runners from 3B with less than two outs.

Hitting with two strikes sucks for everybody. And Cubs suck more than anybody doing it. So, something to be addressed going forward.

http://www.gammonsdaily.com/look-how-much-averages-drop-after-each-strike/

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 30, 2015, 02:02:51 am
It's not really smart for the player to highball an arb submission. That just gives the club a boost if the club's submission is closer to arb reality, as the arbitrator picks one or the other. The art is being high enough without going overboard. Too high and it's incentive for the club to actually arbitrate. Cubs don't like to do it but they will if conclude player's submission is a loser. Boras treats arb differently than free agency.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: AndyMacFAIL on October 30, 2015, 12:48:55 am

Scott Boras is Arietta's agent.  Anyone want to guess what Boras will ask for demand this off-season's arbitration?

I expect Boras will submit an offer for a minimum of $15 million as Rick Porcello was given $12.5 million by the Red Sox to avoid arbitration last winter.  Then again with the Red Sox giving Porcello a 4 year/$82.5 million contract in April I wouldn't be surprised if Boras asks somewhere between $18-$20 million just for the 2016 season.


 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 29, 2015, 09:43:57 pm
Im not one who hated Jim Hendry.

He's still to this day the most succesful GM of my time as a fan.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 29, 2015, 09:08:45 pm
And yet few appreciate the effort of Hendry to do the same thing.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 29, 2015, 08:55:58 pm
If David Price goes to hell in year three of a 6 year contract, but fails to help us win a WS, was it worth it?

I would appreciate the effort of the FO to have tried.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 29, 2015, 08:38:22 pm
I wasn't predicting anything, but I expressed the desire that he be tried out in center field.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 29, 2015, 08:36:59 pm
If David Price goes to hell in year 3 of a 6 year deal but helps us win a WS in year 2 was it worth it?

I think yes.


If David Price goes to hell in year three of a 6 year contract, but fails to help us win a WS, was it worth it?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 29, 2015, 07:17:04 pm
From PSD Hoyer last week on ESPN 1000;

"I mean Javy Baez might be one of our better outfielders. He's phenomenal out there and will probably give him some reps out there as well."

Hoyer also said KB will continue to take reps in the OF and Russell will probably still get some reps at 2B as well.

Who was it here who was predicting that Baez was likely to get meaningful playing time in the OF next year?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 29, 2015, 06:37:12 pm
If David Price goes to hell in year 3 of a 6 year deal but helps us win a WS in year 2 was it worth it?

I think yes.

As far as Arrieta goes dont we have him under control for 2 more years?

Let him prove he's worth ace money.

I see no need to rush to extend him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 29, 2015, 05:44:37 pm
Most of the bad contracts in the past have been bad more because of their length.  Signing a 30 year old pitcher for three years is more likely to produce good total value than signing the same pitcher for seven years.

It is almost as if the pitcher is likely to be more valuable per year in the first three years than in the second four years.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 29, 2015, 04:25:09 pm
Arrieta is likely going to be closer to Lester in price for the out years if they can extend him now.  If he has 2 more dominant years the $$ will be more than Price.

Any free agent, hitter or pitcher, has the ability to be a bad contract.  Hamilton, Fielder and Pujols have all under performed their contracts
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 29, 2015, 04:13:21 pm
Not sure.  I would hope we can extend him before he has to have that kind of money.  But, if he wanted the same kind of money as they're throwing around about Price, yes, I feel the same.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: mO on October 29, 2015, 04:03:12 pm
   I hope we don't spend outrageous money on Price, that's all I'm saying.  It often works out poorly.

Does the same apply to Arrieta?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 29, 2015, 03:56:41 pm
I think that the Cubs are ready to seriously compete for a World Championship now, and that the risk of spending a fortune on Price is mitigated by this.  If he's healthy for the next few seasons, he could be decisive in winning a championship.  Perhaps there can be contract terms that limit the risk in the out years.

Bottom line is that the Cubs need to acquire a #1/2 type starter, and I would prefer they do that by spending money rather than by dealing a lot of young talent.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 29, 2015, 03:39:01 pm
The other day I spotted a feature about the 20 pitchers who made the most money in baseball.  #20 was Zambrano.  #1 was Randy Johnson, followed closely by Mariano Rivera.   Of course, Clemens, Maddux, Sabathia were in the top 10, and some of the bottom guys were guys who didn't make it to the big money before they retired.  It was some of the guys in the middle that caught my attention: Mike Hampton, Santana, Zito, Kevin Brown and a few others who hit the skids after signing big contracts.   I hope we don't spend outrageous money on Price, that's all I'm saying.  It often works out poorly.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 29, 2015, 01:02:17 pm
Bob Dutton ‏@TNT_Mariners  2m2 minutes ago
#Mariners add Joe Bohringer as a special assistant to the GM. He spent last four years as the Cubs' director of pro scouting.

He was demoted when Parker came over from the Red Sox, supposed to be pretty well thought of.

With Anthopoulus leaving the Blue Jays it would be nice to poach some of their international scouting guys.  They always seem to find a bunch of pitchers or bring in AA as a special assistant to the GM.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 29, 2015, 11:12:53 am
From PSD Hoyer last week on ESPN 1000;

"I mean Javy Baez might be one of our better outfielders. He's phenomenal out there and will probably give him some reps out there as well."

Hoyer also said KB will continue to take reps in the OF and Russell will probably still get some reps at 2B as well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: method on October 27, 2015, 11:06:45 am
You guys know why it was such a great magazine right? they were in the same town as the Cardinals...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: chgojhawk on October 27, 2015, 10:06:39 am
I was walking by a newsstand a couple days ago with my youngest son and was telling him how excited I used to get when waiting for the preseason mags to come out.  College football and basketball were my thing.  Street and Smith was the bible. 

I used to subscribe to Sport and Inside Sports as well as Sports Illustrated, Baseball Digest and Football Digest.  My mom didn't like the Sporting News because the ink ran and made the table dirty.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 27, 2015, 09:22:26 am
The Sporting News was based in St. Louis and printed 50 issues per year.  I remember being disappointed when it didn't come for a couple weeks at Christmas.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 27, 2015, 09:09:52 am
Of all the magazines I had subscriptions to when I was a kid (Baseball Digest, SI, Sport), Sporting News was always my favorite, due to the detail...truth be known, I probably have a few boxes of old issues up in my attic right now...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 27, 2015, 08:26:34 am
I loved the Sporting News in tabloid form.  As a boy, I remember going to the store in the spring to get their forecast edition along with Street and Smith's Baseball spring issue, analyzing every team and nearly every player that might come up and have an impact.  Rarely did we know of an up and coming star on another team without that kind of input.  Street and Smith's is still around, but I haven't bought one in years because they too changed their format in such a way that I find the internet more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 27, 2015, 08:19:26 am
In 1965 I was stationed in Glasgow AFB in northeast Montana.  Straight out of Chicago, I was living in a three county area that had fewer people than the suburb of Evergreen Park.  I went into the only drugstore in town and came across the St Louis Sporting News, which carried some coverage of both the major and minor leagues.  For the first 6 months, the Tribune mailed me a free copy of the daily paper so I had news of the MLB club, but the Sporting News had news of their minor league teams.

Thus began a lifelong obsession with the Cubs minor league system.

It came out once a week.  I believe it was dated Tuesdays, but it reached the stand on Wednesdays.  They only got three copies, and I soon found out that if I didn't get there in the morning, they would all be gone.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 26, 2015, 10:27:45 pm
One of my Dad's coworkers would give me his Sporting News after he read them. I loved that magazine as a kid. at some point they moved from the more news oriented magazine to something more like Sports Illustrated and it made me sad. It is just amazing to think how the Internet and things like Sports Center have changed how we get the news. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 26, 2015, 08:35:54 pm
I would sometimes go along with Mom to the store.  Why did I have to stand in line?  I could just go over to the newspaper/magazine area and look in the Sporting News to see which Cub guys were in the minor league leaders. 

That never took very long.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 26, 2015, 08:32:14 pm
Pre-Baseball America, Sporting News was only source for minor league news. Thick with baseball news and columns. Essential for the day.

I would sometimes go along with Mom to the store.  Why did I have to stand in line?  I could just go over to the newspaper/magazine area and look in the Sporting News to see which Cub guys were in the minor league leaders. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 26, 2015, 08:06:43 pm
Pre-Baseball America, Sporting News was only source for minor league news. Thick with baseball news and columns. Essential for the day.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 26, 2015, 07:06:23 pm
Some of us remember when The Sporting News was known as "The Baseball Bible".  A writer from the city of each MLB team contributed.  You could even see the box scores of all the games from the previous week.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 26, 2015, 05:40:46 pm
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb-news/4659279-mlb-awards-2015-national-league-rookie-of-the-year-kris-bryant-matt-duffy
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 26, 2015, 05:39:56 pm
That has to be the Sporting News NL Rookie of the Year.  The MLB award is not announced until after the World Series.  He'll win that one too but not yet.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 26, 2015, 05:39:14 pm
All of the major awards, including ROY, are voted by BBWAA.

Yet to be announced.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: mO on October 26, 2015, 05:22:06 pm
Kris Bryant wins the NL ROY.  Schwarber finished 5th.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Kris-Bryant-Wins-NL-Rookie-of-the-Year-Award-337150861.html

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 23, 2015, 07:01:39 pm
http://viewfromthebleachers.com/blog/2012/08/23/success-rate-of-mlb-draft-picks-by-slot/

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/7/3/2255951/mlb-draft-success-rates

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 23, 2015, 06:10:40 pm
It's true, most of Epstein's contributors are top draft picks. But I wonder what percentage of top draft picks actually pan out? (I don't know, but curious). I wonder how many top draft picks currently contributing at the ML level were playing in the Big Ten two years ago?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 23, 2015, 05:17:56 pm
Is it realistic to have had one of those under the Epstein administration, though?  Has there been enough time?

Doesn't it seem like enough time to have developed some middle relief help?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 23, 2015, 04:58:49 pm
Epstein created an organization, and that doesn't happen overnight.  Each draft since he has gotten here seems to me to be an improvement over the previous ones.  Only time will tell if the success is long term or not.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 23, 2015, 04:33:42 pm
Is it realistic to have had one of those under the Epstein administration, though?  Has there been enough time?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 23, 2015, 03:59:40 pm
Under the Epstein administration.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 23, 2015, 03:57:02 pm
Depends on whether or not you consider Castro a contributor...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 23, 2015, 03:50:09 pm
I'm glad that we have the young talent that we do, but we're still waiting for our first meaningful home grown contributor who wasn't a top draft pick or a top international signing.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 23, 2015, 03:30:03 pm
Every team is subject to the possibility of significant injuries, and it could also happen to the Cubs, although career ending injuries seem somewhat less likely to young pitchers than to young hitters.

In addition, the Cubs are slowly building a minor league system that can provide adequate replacements to the injuries that are almost sure to happen, just as the Cardinals have done over the years.  They are probably still about a year away from bringing that to fruition, but it is coming, if they stay the course.

My goal for them is to have them become a 10 to 15 year dynasty, and I think that they are nearing the point where that is not an unrealistic hope.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on October 23, 2015, 03:20:49 pm
Great story, Bully :)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 23, 2015, 02:40:12 pm
Quote
The veterans of 2003 were bitchy?

That was a great paragraph, but I think I would have said "not composed of young arms who will break, like 2003."
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BullingersEars on October 23, 2015, 02:21:05 pm
Bryant walk-off vs. Colorado was my son and daughter's first time at Wrigley.  Little lady went home in the sixth inning..... (she wasn't quite two years old at that point...).  Cubs are up three or four going into the Top of the 9th..... my six year old boy is crying because he's tired and it's 11pm on our EST clocks.... I convince him to stay... we just need a quick three outs, then can sing "Go Cubs Go". 

Of course they completely collapse.  It took a "Kris Bryant Lego" bribe to get him to stay for the bottom.  Bryant hits the game-winner against the Ax-Man. Think I literally threw my son up five feet in the air.... awesome father/son moment, he still talks about it.  Got him that lego, and a $40 Bryant shirt for me on our way home :)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 23, 2015, 02:00:53 pm
My favorite moment, Strop high steppin' the Bryant walk-off.
Jake Arrieta's no-hitter
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 23, 2015, 01:43:44 pm
My favorite moment, Strop high steppin' the Bryant walk-off.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 23, 2015, 12:40:23 pm
Ol' Piss Fingers Alou. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BearHit on October 23, 2015, 12:12:33 pm
How about "pissy?"

Like Moises Alou...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 23, 2015, 12:06:12 pm
The veterans of 2003 were bitchy?
Yeah, I didn't get that either.  And it seemed like the "mercenaries" of 7 and 8 almost cared too much, in my opinion.  Other than that I agree with the 2015 assessment.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: mO on October 23, 2015, 11:59:44 am
The veterans of 2003 were bitchy?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 23, 2015, 11:58:35 am
This
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on October 23, 2015, 11:52:43 am
"This team isn't a bunch of veterans that will all get old in one year like the 1984 team. It isn't a bunch of young guys that nobody outside of Vineline had ever hyped like the 1989 team. It isn't a team built around one singular superstar like the 1998 team. It isn't a bunch of bitchy veterans like the 2003 team. It isn't a bunch of hired mercenaries that collectively shit their pants twice the moment the post-season started like the 2007 and 2008 teams.

This 2015 team was an unfinished product and they still damn near caught the two best teams in baseball for the division and they actually did eliminate both of them from the playoffs."

Love it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 23, 2015, 11:43:49 am
Terrific goodbye to the 2015 Cubs:

http://www.obstructedview.net/saying-goodbye-to-the-2015-cubs-is-hard/


Thanks, Playtwo. That's a good read.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 23, 2015, 11:04:10 am
Maybe just maybe an off center camera view isn't the best way to judge the movement on a pitch, but I don't watch enough baseball apparently to figure that out.  Maybe the descriptions of a meatball pitch with no movement are way over the top.

To answer Chris's question. If a Cardinal hit the HR, my reaction would be the same. It was a bad, but not horrible pitch. The hitter did their job.

I wouldn't have weighed in on if Chris had a more realistic reaction to the pitch.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: rjzebra on October 23, 2015, 10:27:47 am
Some people on this board are "hanging meatballs".
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 23, 2015, 10:20:47 am
Terrific goodbye to the 2015 Cubs:

http://www.obstructedview.net/saying-goodbye-to-the-2015-cubs-is-hard/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 23, 2015, 10:00:17 am
Let's try this experiment: look at the pitch!

A better experiment would be to switch uniforms and see the reactions after that pitch was hammered. Not sure how it could've been more on a tee for Bryant but we have to argue everything.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 23, 2015, 07:18:33 am
I'm pointing out a fact that a trained chimp can see.

It appears that ONLY a trained chimp can see it....
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 23, 2015, 02:08:06 am
There is a big difference between "movement" that starts in a very hittable part of the zone and ends up in another hittable part of the zone--a very bad pitch--and "movement" that ends up out of the zone entirely or on a corner--a very good pitch.

Put another way, it tells us next to nothing that pitch x has similar "movement" in terms of inches to pitch y.

Let's try this experiment: look at the pitch!

It's not hard in these days of endless replays. Sometimes, SIMPLE is actually the best approach.

What does Maddon say on that shirt?  Do Simple Better.

Better than Let Us Obfuscate (Again).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 23, 2015, 01:20:12 am
The entire playoffs he saw 8 change ups and whiffed on swings 3 times.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/h_tabs.php?player=592178&gFilt=&time=game&minmax=ci&var=po&s_type=16&startDate=10/07/2015&endDate=10/23/2015&balls=-1&strikes=-1&b_hand=-1


Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 23, 2015, 12:28:39 am
Sitting duck then? Dress it up any way you like, the pitch was a sitter begging to be clobbered.

And now I know for certain that the metrics folks are full of baloney because Bryant clearly swung and missed more than one change in that series.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 22, 2015, 11:04:18 pm
Ah, a semantical argument.

The pitch was a dead fish, how bout that? It had no movement and spun just below the center of the zone, a perfect pitch for Bryant and his upper-cut swing to drill. Had absolutely nothing in common with the changeups that Bryant was missing all series.

It had 9 inches of vertical movement. 9 inches is what Clippard has averaged on his change up in every month except 6 going back to 2011.  It had movement.

Bryant saw 68 pitches against the Mets. He saw a whopping total of 5 change ups or 7.4%. He swung and missed at a grand total of 1 all series. 1.  It was from Jacob deGrom and had a vertical movement of 7 inches.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 22, 2015, 10:04:50 pm
Here's another piece from Theo's press conference. In this one, he provides some perspective on what it's like in the playoffs. Included is this:

"I've been on both sides of it," Epstein said. "I've been in the situation where the team I was working for was the hot team going into the World Series or LCS. It almost creates like a tidal wave. There's nothing the other team can do.

"The series creates momentum in itself where you never surrender the lead in any game. You almost never give the team a chance to feel like they're in the series.

"It's a great feeling when you're the tidal wave. It's not such a great feeling when you're the dinghy, getting pushed around by that tidal wave. And the Mets were that tidal wave right now."

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-theo-epstein-compares-mets-tidal-wave
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 22, 2015, 09:59:16 pm
It wasn't a good pitch. It wasn't a hanging meatball, if that is a hanging meatball almost all of the strike zone is going to be a meatball. His change up had 8-11 inches of vertical movements in that inning. The one Bryant hit out had 9 inches. It was a poorly located pitch that caught too much of the plate.

Ah, a semantical argument.

The pitch was a dead fish, how bout that? It had no movement and spun just below the center of the zone, a perfect pitch for Bryant and his upper-cut swing to drill. Had absolutely nothing in common with the changeups that Bryant was missing all series.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 22, 2015, 09:34:10 pm
Mooney has a little piece on the potential for keeping Arrieta a Cub. It includes this bit from Theo's press conference:

“(Jake) handled the breakthrough and the dominance with such class,” Epstein said. “(He did it) in such a generous, inclusive manner that I think it set the tone for the whole team (by) including all of his teammates after the no-hitter. And as he got all the attention down the stretch, deflecting it to the team as a whole.

“That set an amazing tone. We were really thankful for that, as well as what he did on the mound. His mindset of always trying to get better — despite being at the top — really rubbed off on everybody and will continue for years to come.”

Theo really believes in the importance of team culture.

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-will-explore-long-term-deal-jake-arrieta
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Eastcoastfan on October 22, 2015, 09:25:19 pm
Sign me up for Heyward and a trade for pitching.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 22, 2015, 08:06:38 pm
Punishing a pitcher's mistakes seems like a valuable skill to me.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 22, 2015, 07:53:14 pm
It wasn't a good pitch. It wasn't a hanging meatball, if that is a hanging meatball almost all of the strike zone is going to be a meatball. His change up had 8-11 inches of vertical movements in that inning. The one Bryant hit out had 9 inches. It was a poorly located pitch that caught too much of the plate.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BullingersEars on October 22, 2015, 06:36:13 pm
Bryant saw a change up the pitch before too..... Sat on that thing hard.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 22, 2015, 06:16:58 pm
good goc I'll have that song running through my mind all day now

Try "Camp Town Ladies"! 

duda duda
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 22, 2015, 05:56:17 pm
WaLOLing?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 22, 2015, 05:44:35 pm
Seen Clippard dozens of times. That was one of worst pitches from him I've ever seen--no action; bad location--and Bryant did what he's supposed to do.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 22, 2015, 05:21:55 pm
Lol
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 22, 2015, 05:11:43 pm
Just let him wallow, CBJ.  We all have to cope somehow.

Excuse you, but I'm pointing out a fact that a trained chimp can see. It's a legitimate fact that makes Epstein's example hollow.  Some of us are still concerned with facts whether we like them or not. Nobody is wallowing.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 22, 2015, 05:08:21 pm
Just let him wallow, CBJ.  We all have to cope somehow.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 22, 2015, 05:07:04 pm
You freeze frame. Try 36 seconds. It's a hanging meatball or the definition is meaningless. Pitch did nothing.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 22, 2015, 05:06:09 pm
TBS pitch trax was/is awful, like their broadcast.

Freeze frame the swing or look at the link.  It was just above his knees. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 22, 2015, 04:58:27 pm
I mean hanging meatball just as I said.

http://m.mlb.com/chc/video/topic/94788780/v525204283/cubs-kris-bryant-hits-tworun-home-run/?c_id=chc
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 22, 2015, 04:55:17 pm
If by hanging meatbeall you mean in the lower part of the zone, sure.  There was also roughly a 10 mph difference in Clippard's fastball and change up.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation.php-pitchSel=461325&game=gid_2015_10_21_nynmlb_chnmlb_1&batterX=70&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3&league=mlb&pnf=&zlpo=&cache=1.gif
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 22, 2015, 04:37:51 pm
Clippard's changeup was a hanging meatball right down the middle. Bryant will have to lay off quality changeups out of the zone.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 22, 2015, 04:36:09 pm
Is it archived anywhere?  Cubs.com, maybe?

Don't know. It was broadcast on CSN.  There are brief clips and a report here: http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/epstein-cubs-would-add-%E2%80%98-least-one-quality-starting-pitcher%E2%80%99
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 22, 2015, 04:28:14 pm
Is it archived anywhere?  Cubs.com, maybe?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 22, 2015, 04:12:58 pm
As an example of the detail in his comments, Theo discussed the experience the kids were gaining not just from the season, but from the excellent pitching they saw in the NLCS. He gave as an example other teams discovering that Bryant had a weakness in right-on-right change-ups, and kept getting him out on them. But then how eventually Bryant, on his last AB of the year, hit a HR on a right-on-right change-up.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 22, 2015, 04:07:29 pm
Theo's post-season press conference was terrific. He placed no time limit on it, said he would stay there as long as the media wanted to.  In brief media events, he can sometimes fall into fairly typical boilerplate comments.  I thought this was different. Sometimes really long and very detailed answers. No arrogance, nothing taken for granted, even as he's so positive about the players and the organization as a whole. High stakes and high standards.  Damn, he's good. Hard for me to not to be excited and optimistic about the future.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 22, 2015, 02:18:31 pm
- Looking to improve situational hitting, controlling running game, contact, OF defense.  May be through players or younger guys improving.
-Imperfect approach for Schwarber to play both C/OF.  You can't put the bat in minors while he learns.  A lot of spring training work at catcher, bullpen sessions, working with catching coach.  Will do both until they decide not to.
-Looking to extend Jake, didn't sound like it was a huge chance
-Chemistry is important, but difficult to project what it will be like in the future.  Feels good about their players.
-Wants to extend himself and others in FO.
-Best case is to acquire pitching without giving up impact batting talent.  Not sure if it is possible.
-First round picks can be given up for free agents since they will be picking later now.  Draft is still important.
-Strike outs can improve.  Will live with strike outs.  Future acquisitions won't likely be for high K/high power.  Doesn't mean they will get rid of their high K guys.
-Bryant and Baez in the OF will depend what happens on what the Cubs do in CF.  More options the better.
-With this division you need to shot for great to avoid the wild card game.
-Wants more than 5 starting pitching options.
-After it ended and before the feed cut out Sharma was asking Theo about Alzolay, but it cut out mid feed.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 22, 2015, 02:16:10 pm
Theo press conference

-All coaches coming back
-Need to add more pitching, need to add at least 1 quality starting pitcher. Starters 3rd in ERA if you want to get geeky 1st in FIP, WAR (assuming fangraphs).
-Mentioned waves of pitching.  6 20 year olds- Cease, Sands, Steele, Hudson, Alzolay, De La Cruz are ready to explode on the scene.  Mentioned Johnson and Underwood.
-Playoff run helps revenue,  has not set budget yet
-Plan is to catch and play OF for Schwarber.  Development and health will be key.  Plans can change.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 22, 2015, 02:06:41 pm
The '03 team was supposed to have a long run. That's why people were so upset that the '04 team, with all the additions, "only" won 89 games and missed the playoffs.

Like I said, this isn't 2003.  THIS team will be back.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 22, 2015, 02:03:36 pm
LF Kyle Schwarber - $700,000
CF
RF Jorge Soler - $3,000,000
3B Kris Bryant - $700,000
SS Addison Russell - $700,000
2B Starlin Castro - $7,000,000
1B Anthony Rizzo - $5,000,000
C Miguel Montero - $14,000,000
B Chris Coghlan - $3,900,000
B
B Javier Baez - $700,000
B Tommy LaStella - $700,000
B David Ross - $2,250,000
SP Jon Lester - $20,000,000
SP Jake Arrieta - $10,600,000
SP Jason Hammel - $9,000,000
SP Kyle Hendricks - $700,000
SP
RP Clayton Richard - $1,100,000
RP Travis Wood - $6,400,000
RP
RP
RP Justin Grimm - $1,000,000
RP Pedro Strop - $4,700,000
RP Hector Rondon - $3,600,000
      
Total - $95,750,000
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 22, 2015, 02:03:26 pm

This isn't 2003, this team will be back...

The '03 team was supposed to have a long run. That's why people were so upset that the '04 team, with all the additions, "only" won 89 games and missed the playoffs.

At some point the Cubs are going to have to find a way to hit quality pitching at a tune better than .164 because the Mets play in such a horrid division they are nearly assured of making the playoffs for a while.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 22, 2015, 01:39:33 pm
Yeah, a great season. Hope we remember more beating Cardinals in division series than poor showing in NLCS. Fun sharing the season with all of you.


Those of us in Cardinal country will have no problem doing so...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 22, 2015, 01:36:33 pm
It was the most joyous baseball since 1984 ("AH You might as well just JUMP!").   Made me fall in love, all over again.
good goc I'll have that song running through my mind all day now
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 22, 2015, 01:28:48 pm
There is no guarantee that the youngsters will do as well or better than they did this season. Some may regress. Some may have plateaued. But there certainly are reasons to think there will be improvements by some.  Here are a few realistic opportunities for improvement in 2016 (not counting pitching):

   
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 22, 2015, 01:19:34 pm
It was the most joyous baseball since 1984 ("AH You might as well just JUMP!").   Made me fall in love, all over again.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 22, 2015, 01:16:41 pm
Yeah, a great season. Hope we remember more beating Cardinals in division series than poor showing in NLCS. Fun sharing the season with all of you.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 22, 2015, 12:48:10 pm
It's easy to forget how amazing the year was with a finish like they had.  The team wildly exceeded everyone's expectations, and it was a joyous, incredible ride. 

Getting into the playoffs, beating the Pirates (when people thought they wouldn't), knocking out the Cardinals (when people thought they wouldn't)--they were young and playing loose.  Then they headed into New York, and all of a sudden there were some expectations on them.  Favorites to win the World Series, against a team they had beaten seven straight times.  The first game in New York was cold, and every bounce of the ball went the other way, but then in game 2 Arrieta came out and wasn't the same guy they were used to playing behind.  It was probably over at that point. 

I expect that losing in a somewhat humiliating fashion will make them even hungrier next year, and they'll have a better sense of what playoff baseball is all about.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: goblue007 on October 22, 2015, 12:24:01 pm
Hopefully with heyward :)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 22, 2015, 12:22:26 pm
I'm not doomy or gloomy. 

I happen to agree with the conventional wisdom that this Cubs team arrived a year early. That, as part of their development, they received invaluable playoff experience is just icing on the cake. This isn't 2003, this team will be back...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: method on October 22, 2015, 12:03:50 pm
You guys had a great year... i am not sure why so much doom and gloom on this board...

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 22, 2015, 11:33:02 am
I suppose it's officially time for a Cubs in '16 topic to be created.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 22, 2015, 11:28:11 am
Nice
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 22, 2015, 11:16:57 am
Chi-town Cubbies sing the song,
Duda, Duda!
Chi-town curse goes on and on,
Oh, the Duda day!
The Mets they hit all night,
The Mets they pitched all day,
They bet the farm on Yoenis’ bat,
Twas Murphy made us pay!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 22, 2015, 10:41:15 am
McLeod removed himself from the Padres GM search.  He would be the guy from the FO I could see leaving as well as the guy that was demoted when Parker was hired. 

Dick Bosman has been the Rays minor league pitching coordinator since 2002, that would be a fun replacement.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 22, 2015, 10:25:36 am
I have no idea if any of the rumors are true, but teams needing support personnel usually target those from successful teams.  I would guess that the Cubs are likely to lose several of their "guys" over the next few years.  McLeod, Hoyer, and several under them are likely to be getting offers.  Weren't there rumors that McLeod turned one down last year, or at least took himself out of the running?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 22, 2015, 10:16:00 am
David Kaplan ‏@thekapman  18m18 minutes ago
Derek Johnson coached @DAVIDprice14 at Vandy. Cubs have heavy interest in adding a star arm. Price/Greinke at top of their list.

David Kaplan ‏@thekapman  20m20 minutes ago
Looks like the Cubs are going to lose Derek Johnson, their minor league pitching coordinator. He's about to be named Brewers pitching coach.

Too bad about Johnson. Kaplan isn't always right with his rumors, but he's better than most. It will be interesting to see if the Cubs do go hard for Price or Geineke.  Cool to think of either joining the rotation. Not so cool to think of the contract either would require. Greineke, just turned 32 and has logged bearly 2100 IP already, nearly 300 more than Lester andd 650 more than Price, who just turned 30 in August.  Small sample size or not, Price's record in the post-season is a little off-putting.

It certainly would make sense for Theo to go hard to upgrade the rotation, with all of the prime prospects having reached the majors and contributed to a remarkably successful season. Hard to imagine that he doesn't want to push the accelerator hard. While there is reason to hope or even expect the offense will improve as the kids develop further, the only way to improve the thin rotation is from the outside.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 22, 2015, 09:40:30 am
David Kaplan ‏@thekapman  18m18 minutes ago
Derek Johnson coached @DAVIDprice14 at Vandy. Cubs have heavy interest in adding a star arm. Price/Greinke at top of their list.

David Kaplan ‏@thekapman  20m20 minutes ago
Looks like the Cubs are going to lose Derek Johnson, their minor league pitching coordinator. He's about to be named Brewers pitching coach.

Martinez also rumored to be high on the list for the Dodgers to replace Mattingly.  Renteria might be headed to the White Sox as a bench coach.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: buff on October 22, 2015, 07:32:32 am
Yep it was a great season.  Need another starter and maybe a dominant reliever
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 22, 2015, 12:12:13 am
From the late, great Mike Royko:

Sins Of The Fathers Make Fans Suffer
October 06, 1989|By Mike Royko.

They were walking about 20 feet ahead of me, a youngish father holding the hand of his son. The boy was about 8. Both wore Cubs caps. They had just left Wrigley Field after the first-game slaughter.

We were several blocks from the ballpark and the crowd had scattered, so there were few others on the quiet street.

Suddenly the father and son stopped. The boy had his head down and a hand over his eyes. As I caught up with them, I could see that he was sobbing.

The father dropped to one knee, put his arm around his son`s shoulders, and said: ``Hey, it`s okay. Come on, it`s not over yet. They can come back tomorrow. It`s just one game. You watch, they can do it.``

I was there the game which was then "tomorrow."  I took with me my father and his youngest brother who had taken me to my third Cub game, the game after Holtzman's 1969 no-hitter.... and that "tomorrow" they certainly could not do it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 21, 2015, 11:45:34 pm
Something that I thinks needs to be pointed out.

2015 Cubs Age 25 Season or Below- 8 Over Age 30- 5
2008 Cubs <25: 3 (Soto, Samardizja, Marshall) >30: 10
2003 Cubs <25: 4 (Rameriez, Patterson, Prior, Zambrano) >30: 11

2003 could get to 5 if you count Cruz.  2008 could really be 2 as Samardizja only threw 27.2 innings.  Point being this team is really, really young and all the youth is in position players.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on October 21, 2015, 11:37:05 pm
You just have to hope next time we're in this position, guys like Bryant, Rizzo, Russell, Schwarber, Soler, etc. will be better prepared to face the kind of pitching you're going to face deep in the postseason.  This experience has to at least be good for them.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 21, 2015, 11:18:25 pm
Honestly, I feared something like this a couple weeks ago when the Cubs won, what?, nine in a row?  Then they lost the opener in St. Louis, and won 3 in a row.  Most of those games before Pittsburgh didn't mean much because there was little chance of us catching anyone.  I thought, man, we're hot at the wrong time.  Then we kind of scraped through the Cardinals and ran into a hotter team with hotter pitching.  I also feared the 0-7 during the year...for some reason that always comes back to bite you in the ass.  It's like the baseball gods evening out the playing field.

But I echo what JR and CBJ said, this was a far better year than most of us thought was realistic.  Unlike 2003 and 2008, I doubt Joe is going to let this one eat them up.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on October 21, 2015, 11:14:01 pm
If you told me at the start of the season the Cubs would win 97 games, beat the Pirates and Cardinals in the postseason and make the NLCS I would have been very happy with that.  Sucks to lose to Mets like we did, but the team outperformed what everyone thought they would do.  They are still very young, better things are ahead.

Damn straight.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on October 21, 2015, 11:13:01 pm
The kid from that story probably just took his kid to Game 4 tonight.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 21, 2015, 11:12:10 pm
If you told me at the start of the season the Cubs would win 97 games, beat the Pirates and Cardinals in the postseason and make the NLCS I would have been very happy with that.  Sucks to lose to Mets like we did, but the team outperformed what everyone thought they would do.  They are still very young, better things are ahead.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 21, 2015, 11:04:53 pm
From the late, great Mike Royko:

Sins Of The Fathers Make Fans Suffer
October 06, 1989|By Mike Royko.

They were walking about 20 feet ahead of me, a youngish father holding the hand of his son. The boy was about 8. Both wore Cubs caps. They had just left Wrigley Field after the first-game slaughter.

We were several blocks from the ballpark and the crowd had scattered, so there were few others on the quiet street.

Suddenly the father and son stopped. The boy had his head down and a hand over his eyes. As I caught up with them, I could see that he was sobbing.

The father dropped to one knee, put his arm around his son`s shoulders, and said: ``Hey, it`s okay. Come on, it`s not over yet. They can come back tomorrow. It`s just one game. You watch, they can do it.``

For a moment, I considered stopping and saying something. Then I decided not to intrude on so private a moment, and I kept walking toward the neighborhood corner bar.

Over a cold one, I thought about what I might have said if I had stopped. Not to the boy, but to the father. I would have told him:

``What kind of father are you, lying to your son? For that matter, why did you bring him here in the first place, causing him to suffer?

``You should be prosecuted for abuse and neglect and jailed for inflicting what will probably be a lifetime of suffering, depression and disappointment on a helpless child.

``For shame! You are no better than a drug pusher. And you must forever bear the guilt of having placed the terrible Cubs monkey on that innocent lad`s frail back.``

Of course, the father might not be entirely to blame. Chances are that his father did the same thing to him. This type of cruelty is usually passed along, from generation to generation.

Take my late father. He was not without vices. He sometimes drank, gambled, brawled and had an eye for a shapely leg. I could forgive him these minor character flaws.

But to this day, I cannot forgive him for taking me to Cub games at an impressionable age, hooking me on Herman, Hack, Jurges, Nicholson and Cavarretta. And telling me tales of Grimm, Hornsby, Wilson, Stephenson and other earlier heroes.

He didn`t tell me that I was going to have to live through Smalley, Jeffcoat, Miksis, Chiti, Dave Ding Dong, `69 and `84.

That`s why, while I made mistakes as a parent, I did one thing right. I didn`t raise my kids to be Cub fans. When they were tiny, I would point at the TV and say: ``See those vines on the outfield wall? You know what`s in those vines? Big, black, mean spiders and other crawly things.``

So today, as young adults, they wouldn`t dream of skipping a Beethoven concert or an Eric Clapton performance for a Cub game. What the heck, Beethoven is already dead, so what`s there to cry about?

Oh, they have a casual interest. But when this season ends, they will not have shed a tear or lost a night`s sleep over a ball game.

Some might say I deprived them of the thrills, excitement and suspense of a baseball season. Maybe. But unlike hundreds of thousands of other Chicagoans, when they awoke Thursday morning, they weren`t suffering from melancholia, mumbling about Will Clark, or praying for a West Coast earthquake.

No, that man was not doing his sobbing kid any favor. And if he happens to read this, I suggest he heed this song (with apologies to Willie Nelson):

Daddies, don`t let your babies grow up to be

Cub fans.

Don`t let them get snared into lifelong

nightmares,

Let them play guitars, go bowling or such.

Daddies, don`t let your babies grow up to be

Cub fans,

`Cause they`ll never lose hope and it`s worse

than most dope, even with one out to go.

So I say to that young father and to others like him: It`s probably too late for you. But it isn`t too late for your kids. Wean them away or don`t let them get started. When they grow up, they`ll be grateful.

I know it isn`t easy. But isn`t it better than seeing a small boy standing there, heartbroken and crying?

For that matter, as the bartender said as he dabbed my nose with a bar rag: ``It ain`t easy seeing a grown man cry.`` He also said: ``Hey, there`s still time. They can do it.``

The fool. Of course, if Dawson gets hot, and Sutcliffe comes through, and. . . .

Pa, see what you did to me?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 21, 2015, 10:40:53 pm
The designated hitter is for people with simple minds.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 21, 2015, 10:39:44 pm
Interleague Play Wins

AL: 2551
NL: 2292

Watching pitchers bunt and strike out is so important to the enjoyment of the game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 21, 2015, 10:31:21 pm
When the AL gets rid of the DH, then it is about integrity. Until then it is about keeping NL teams at a competative disadvantage.

Since the DH came about AL has a 22-19 advantage in the World Series.

For someone who proclaims his knowledge of stats it is a bit surprising to see that difference viewed as anything more than statistical noise.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 21, 2015, 10:17:18 pm
When the AL gets rid of the DH, then it is about integrity. Until then it is about keeping NL teams at a competative disadvantage.

Since the DH came about AL has a 22-19 advantage in the World Series.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 21, 2015, 10:13:37 pm
And for some reason, most Cubs fans want to continue letting pitchers "hit."  Schwarber at DH would be the biggest competitive advantage the Cubs have ever had.  But most Cubs fans, they prefer to see an automatic out every 3 innings.

Or perhaps they care more about the integrity of the game than the transient advantages of the current roster.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on October 21, 2015, 10:07:46 pm
The DH is probably a decision that's not really up to Cubs fans to make, though . . .
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 21, 2015, 10:06:20 pm
And for some reason, most Cubs fans want to continue letting pitchers "hit."  Schwarber at DH would be the biggest competitive advantage the Cubs have ever had.  But most Cubs fans, they prefer to see an automatic out every 3 innings.

Schwarber at DH would be a far less competitive advantage than a Schwarber/Contreras rotation in LF and at catcher, effectively putting a strong bat behind the plate AND keeping the bat fresh, much as the Yankees did with Berra and Elston Howard.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 21, 2015, 10:00:27 pm
And for some reason, most Cubs fans want to continue letting pitchers "hit."  Schwarber at DH would be the biggest competitive advantage the Cubs have ever had.  But most Cubs fans, they prefer to see an automatic out every 3 innings.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 21, 2015, 09:47:10 pm
Schwarber's a DH.  Unfortunately, they aren't utilized in the NL.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 21, 2015, 08:36:49 pm
When this happened to the team in 2008, Lou couldn't recover.  I'm hoping for better things from Joe.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 21, 2015, 08:24:46 pm
Or move him to left and move Schwarber back to catcher.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: buff on October 21, 2015, 07:36:14 pm
Yep trade Soler for a pitcher. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 21, 2015, 07:04:18 pm
If the Cubs sign Heyward (and I agree with Craig that it is unlikely), I hope it is for right field, and not center field.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on October 21, 2015, 06:12:44 pm
The Cubs should kick the tires on Heyward to at least drive up the price on the Cardinals
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 21, 2015, 05:57:40 pm
I suspect it's more likely that the Cubs win the next 4 games against the Mets and then win the 2015 World Series than that they sign Heyward to be their next center-fielder. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JBN on October 21, 2015, 05:53:47 pm
Heyward would be great.

They also need 3 more starters and two catchers.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 21, 2015, 04:01:31 pm
Yeah, would be paying Heyward for a long time and overlap with and when the young current position players will be making big bucks. Hard to see how payroll works that way long-term.

Only way perhaps would be if Cubs trade Soler, Baez, others for young, high-end pitching who is/are years away from free agency and cost controlled. Then, it's mostly a matter of preferring Heyward over pricey FA pitchers--at cost of some young position players. Presumably, Heyward would be upgrade over Soler anyway. That would be interesting strategy.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 21, 2015, 03:57:57 pm
I could see starting him in center as a placeholder until Almora or a different elite defender are available and then shifting him to right.  Seems like a lot of $$ though.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 21, 2015, 03:49:29 pm
Defensive Runs Saved consistently has Fowler below average in CF, including 2015.

Would be mind-boggling if Heyward isn't better than Fowler in CF. No doubt he's better . But, really a matter of putting a big investment at the optimal position, which is RF. Heyward would be fine in CF but out of position where get most out of his talent. Don't see much of that with shrewd folks--like those who run the Cubs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 21, 2015, 03:42:55 pm
10 years, $200+ million have been the guesses for Heyward.

I'm not really sure I buy him as a CF and he's only played 233 innings in CF in his career.  If he's just an average defender in CF he's going from a 6 WAR to a 4-5 WAR player.  If he's below average then the contract will stink.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 21, 2015, 03:34:40 pm
I have no idea what it would cost to sign Heyward, but if you want to improve the defense without hurting the offense too much, he would be a good way to do that.  If they do sign him, I hope they put him in right field, where he is outstanding, rather than in center, where he is no better than Fowler.

But I suspect that his price, like that of Price, would be far too much to make it worthwhile.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 21, 2015, 03:34:32 pm
That piece also reported as fact that Cubs only increasing 2016 payroll by $10. May well be and consistent with my conjecture for some time--but doubtful that is a done deal quite yet.

For sake of discussion, would Cubs play Heyward in CF? Much of his value is RF defense. He's a better CFer than Fowler, so guess so. Would be an interesting allocation of resources.

Don't really buy it. Probably just Levine speculation than it is hard news about Cubs plans.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 21, 2015, 03:20:12 pm
Thanks, guys.  I like Heyward a lot. Love for him to join the Cubs. Hope there's some truth to the Cubs' interest, whatever ends up happening.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 21, 2015, 03:16:55 pm
I picked the first arricle that I could find talking about the rumor (plus it talked about Lackey too).  There are a couple of articles out there mentioning Heyward and the Cubs.  Here is one that talks about what Levine said. His comments were during a radio appearance on the Score. 

http://sportsmockery.com/2015/10/cubs-could-be-eyeing-cardinals-heyward/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 21, 2015, 03:13:59 pm
670 The Score ✔ @670TheScore
On air, @MLBBruceLevine said Dexter Fowler will "probably" sign elsewhere next yr & he's hearing #Cubs are more interested in Jason Heyward.

I think another question is there any reason to give credence to a Bruce Levine report?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 21, 2015, 02:53:55 pm
Levine seems to think the Cubs will let Fowler go and try to sign Heyward.  That would be interesting.  His defense didn't look great playing CF for the Cardinals.  I imagine they'd try to squeeze 2-3 seasons from him in center and then move him to a corner spot depending on what happens with Soler/Schwarber.  He still struggles a little against lefties but would be a great bat to leadoff and cut back on some of the strikeouts.  He seems to hit well at Wrigley.  I'm on board as long as it doesn't stop them from acquiring two starting pitchers as well.  Sounds like they'll have some interest in Lackey too.  Hopefully he brings his spitball if he joins the Cubs. 

http://www.bnd.com/sports/mlb/st-louis-cardinals/cheap-seats-blog/article40475505.html


I'm confused. You mention Levine, but the link is not to a Levine report.  I have two questions: (1) Is there actually a Levine report with this claim somewhere, and (2) is there any particular reason to give credence to this report from the Belleville News Democrat?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 21, 2015, 02:00:42 pm
Levine seems to think the Cubs will let Fowler go and try to sign Heyward.  That would be interesting.  His defense didn't look great playing CF for the Cardinals.  I imagine they'd try to squeeze 2-3 seasons from him in center and then move him to a corner spot depending on what happens with Soler/Schwarber.  He still struggles a little against lefties but would be a great bat to leadoff and cut back on some of the strikeouts.  He seems to hit well at Wrigley.  I'm on board as long as it doesn't stop them from acquiring two starting pitchers as well.  Sounds like they'll have some interest in Lackey too.  Hopefully he brings his spitball if he joins the Cubs. 

http://www.bnd.com/sports/mlb/st-louis-cardinals/cheap-seats-blog/article40475505.html
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 21, 2015, 11:45:26 am
OK
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: goblue007 on October 21, 2015, 11:34:33 am
Sign Heyward
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 21, 2015, 10:58:24 am
It's been a really fun season.  Next season should be really good as well, if not quite so magical.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on October 18, 2015, 08:52:02 pm
Quote from: Jes Beard
At this moment, I would be very happy to see the series reach a seventh game, regardless who is starting for the Cubs in that game.

Yeah no kidding.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JBN on October 18, 2015, 07:43:46 pm

I guess if the Cubs don't finish off the Mets in 6 games, this puts Hendricks in line to pitch Game 7?  Not sure how I feel about that.


It's not even going to game 5.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 18, 2015, 07:42:47 pm
I guess if the Cubs don't finish off the Mets in 6 games, this puts Hendricks in line to pitch Game 7?  Not sure how I feel about that.

At this moment, I would be very happy to see the series reach a seventh game, regardless who is starting for the Cubs in that game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on October 18, 2015, 06:21:16 pm
Quote
Kyle Hendricks - S - Cubs

Cubs manager Joe Maddon announced Sunday that Kyle Hendricks will start Game 3 of the NLCS against the Mets.
Hendricks allowed three runs over 4 2/3 innings in Game 2 of the NLDS. Maddon also indicated that Jason Hammel is likely to pitch in Game 4 of the series, though that could change depending on how the next two contests play out.

I guess if the Cubs don't finish off the Mets in 6 games, this puts Hendricks in line to pitch Game 7?  Not sure how I feel about that.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on October 18, 2015, 06:20:12 pm
I think Wilken interviewed for their scouting director job in the past.  Who knows?  Maybe he just thinks it's time for a change.  Wish him well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 18, 2015, 01:26:25 pm
Wilken did an excellent job before he came to the Cubs, and he did as well as could be expected under the Hendry regime and their budget restraints.  It wasn't until the Ricketts family bought the team that spending money on the draft was an acceptable strategy.  The people Ricketts brought in thought enough of Wilken to keep him when they could have tossed him along with Hendry.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 18, 2015, 08:01:20 am
The bigger question is who's getting to do the coffee runs for the development meetings with Wilken gone?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 17, 2015, 10:40:17 am
I find it shocking that organization hoping to improve would pick people off the Cubs' front office staff.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 17, 2015, 10:22:25 am
It is even more interesting that he left for essentially the same position in Arizona.

It is probably not as fulfilling to be an advisor than it is to be the one who makes the decisions, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  Presumably, it is Wilken's decision, and he is not being forced out, but who knows?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 17, 2015, 09:26:22 am
Boo on Wilken leaving. The Cubs have a lot of talent in the front office, but Wilken seemed, from the outside at least, to bring a different perspective.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 17, 2015, 09:04:44 am
Wilken may enjoy being in discussion for some high draft picks. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 17, 2015, 08:42:12 am
Tim Wilken leaving Cubs for DBacks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MLBBruceLevine/status/655136592189857793
To work with Tony LaRussa?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on October 17, 2015, 08:14:53 am
Guys, thanks for the Callis and WSJ and Stark articles...all fun to read. 

Good luck to Cubs (and all of us) tonight and the rest of the way!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 17, 2015, 06:56:40 am
A
Tim Wilken leaving Cubs for DBacks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MLBBruceLevine/status/655136592189857793

A bit unusual for an announcement like that to come in the middle of the playoffs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 17, 2015, 12:38:31 am
Tim Wilken leaving Cubs for DBacks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MLBBruceLevine/status/655136592189857793
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on October 16, 2015, 08:56:50 pm
Awesome article. Thanks!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 16, 2015, 08:49:01 pm
Jayson Stark on Cubs.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/page/playoffs15_SchwarberArrietaRussell/how-kyle-schwarber-jake-arrieta-addison-russell-transformed-chicago-cubs
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 16, 2015, 06:08:30 pm
Interesting Wall Street article on the Cubs resurgence:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-cubs-emerged-from-the-stone-age-1445014187

Thanks for posting.   Excellent article, showing that the Cubs under the Theocracy have been making many of the internal organizational changes and moves many of of have been calling for for years.  Very encouraging.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 16, 2015, 04:24:06 pm
"Under Epstein, the Cubs became one of the first teams to use neuroscience computer tests to evaluate prospective draft picks. The tests, which resemble crude video games, measure how adept hitters are at recognizing pitch types and deciding whether or not to swing.
>

That is how the Red Sox found Mookie Betts when Theo was with the Red Sox. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 16, 2015, 04:17:31 pm
Interesting Wall Street article on the Cubs resurgence:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-cubs-emerged-from-the-stone-age-1445014187

Shocking to read how bad of a shape the team was in when the Rickets bought the team.  This was also quite interesting to me:

"Under Epstein, the Cubs became one of the first teams to use neuroscience computer tests to evaluate prospective draft picks. The tests, which resemble crude video games, measure how adept hitters are at recognizing pitch types and deciding whether or not to swing.

The Cubs also overhauled a staple of player evaluation for decades: the scouting report. Traditionally, scouts have been left to evaluate amateur players on their own and then file a document assessing his baseball skills and offering a gut feeling on his character. But the Cubs require scouts to document all the ways they arrived at an evaluation in real time.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 16, 2015, 09:49:16 am
Conforto was another guy the Cubs were supposedly in on.  He's been super good as well. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 16, 2015, 09:31:59 am
Jim Callis on Kyle Schwarber:

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/154613860/chicago-cubs-draft-kyle-schwarber
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 15, 2015, 11:18:23 pm
http://www.sj-r.com/article/20151015/SPORTS/151019688/-1/json
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 15, 2015, 09:25:52 pm
Hoyer says Cubs would have pushed harder for a better starting pitcher at trade deadline if Cubs had more realistic shot to win division. Not a surprise. Interesting piece about in-season moves by Bob Nightengale.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/10/15/nightengale-blue-jays-royals-muse-over-3-month-old-trade-johnny-cueto-troy-tulowitzki/74023924/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 15, 2015, 05:22:28 pm
better one, thank you
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 15, 2015, 05:18:40 pm
http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/854852
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 15, 2015, 01:47:22 pm
Yeah, off the roster.  It's not clear who the replacement will be.  Apparently, Maddon says Motte is a possibility.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 15, 2015, 01:45:01 pm
Bad news: Russell is out for the NLCS.  Baez will be the shortstop.

That is bad news. Well, Baez will have a real chance to show what he can do. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 15, 2015, 01:42:37 pm
Is he off the roster?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 15, 2015, 01:29:27 pm
Bad news: Russell is out for the NLCS.  Baez will be the shortstop.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 15, 2015, 12:40:47 pm
Seemed at least implicit in the Hoyer radio interview that Cubs just a bit concerned, or aware of, how hard they have worked Arrieta. So, want to put him out there as fresh as possible when he's out there.  Game 3 showed that the guy is actually human. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 15, 2015, 12:34:21 pm
The Cubs have made it official that Lester will start game 1 of the NLCS.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 09:15:03 pm
Patrick Mooney has a nice piece on the role of chemistry on the Cubs, with quotes from Theo and Yoda, I mean Joe.

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/chemistry-matters-cubs-team-taking-playoffs-storm
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 14, 2015, 08:32:16 pm
just got home, will check...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 08:24:46 pm
U@wirque ck 480
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 14, 2015, 08:18:51 pm
stunning...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 07:29:24 pm
Al Leiter and Sean Casey on MLB Network added their voices in support of David Ross being a central reason for the Cubs success, and they said that's based on talking to the Cub players. 



Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 06:38:46 pm
You eating cheese with the whine?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 14, 2015, 06:36:10 pm
My new favorite past time, reading the online St Louis papers. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 14, 2015, 05:54:57 pm
I think the key to this season was Maddon's having the pajama party on the way home from California.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 05:54:07 pm
My answer to Cardinal fans today who whined and still tried to taunt "Get used to it."
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 05:49:56 pm
I don't hate the Cardinals like some here.  But I must say that in the clips I've seen from Matheny and others (except for Piscotty), I have been a little surprised by the absence of congratulatory comments about the Cubs ... you know, the "those guys are just a really good team" or "we were beaten by a really good team" kind of comments that seem like conventional comments by losing teams.  Maybe it's just that the clips left that part out.  I hope so.
one thing I noticed last year when the Giants eliminated the Cardinals, Matheny stood at the rail watching the Giants celebrate and tipped his cap to Boche.  I noticed last night he stood at the rail while the Cubs celebrated but the camera cut away so I don't know if he tipped his cap but he didn't run into the tunnel like a lot of guys do.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 05:46:24 pm
FiveThirtyEight (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/this-is-the-cubs-best-chance-yet-to-break-their-curse/) has weighed in on the Cubs chances. Their ELO ratings have them as a 60% favorite to win the NLCS.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 14, 2015, 05:26:00 pm
Arrieta has never pitched more than 157 innings in a season--and zero post-season add-on innings.  He has been so phenomenal late, of course, so seems counter-intuitive that might be tiring just a bit if pushed too far---- but maybe, just maybe, it would be a good thing having him pitch with normal rest for two starts in NLCS and leave it at that.

Lester, on other hand, has had multiple 200+ inning seasons and, of course, post-season add-ons.  He in not Arrieta in top-form, of course, but think maybe he can handle 3-day rest start(s) just fine relative to his top form.  So, makes sense to me if he goes game #1.

Not an obvious call either way.

Not to argue with your basic point, or to suggest your reasoning is likely any different from what you went thru, but he has pitched more than 157 innings before.  In 2012 he threw 114 for Baltimore and 56 more in the minors, for 170 total.  In 2010 he threw 73 in the minors and 110 in the majors, for 183 total.  His 229 regular season innings are far more than that, however, and he has now added two games to that 229 total, and has looked a bit off in both of his playoff games so far.  Easy to see Maddon hoping a bit of extra rest could help him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 05:17:08 pm
Who cares what Cardinals say. Whatever they say, it's losers talk.

Cubs are now the dominant franchise.  Let the losers talk. Who cares. Cubs move on to next challenge.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 04:44:39 pm
Lackey on Baez HR.

"If I had that one pitch to go back, I would definitely do something different," Lackey said. "I threw a pitch, kind of over the plate, to a hacker. And he ran into one."

Bitter much.

I don't hate the Cardinals like some here.  But I must say that in the clips I've seen from Matheny and others (except for Piscotty), I have been a little surprised by the absence of congratulatory comments about the Cubs ... you know, the "those guys are just a really good team" or "we were beaten by a really good team" kind of comments that seem like conventional comments by losing teams.  Maybe it's just that the clips left that part out.  I hope so.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 14, 2015, 03:58:22 pm
Gammons on Baez:

http://www.gammonsdaily.com/slowly-javier-baez-gaining-better-strike-zone-control/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 03:36:25 pm
They can reset the roster between every series I believe.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 14, 2015, 03:13:17 pm
Haren isn't on the roster, is he?  Do they get to reset it between NLDS and NLCS?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 02:52:52 pm
Just some of the reasons why baseball is such a great game:

You don't have to be 7 feet tall or weigh 300 pounds.  Anybody can play.

Fans can see everything that happens.    There is no equivalent of bad play because of a missed block.

Strategy discussions are unlimited, both before and after games.    Who should be the starting pitcher is just one of them.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 02:47:20 pm
Lester hasn't pitched in relief since his rookie year, so I'm not sure how much I'd lean on his experience as an argument in his favor as a Game 7 option.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 14, 2015, 02:42:47 pm
Series may never get to game 7. You have to put yourself in the best position before worrying about that game. Kershaw is probably going G2 and then G5 on three days rest if the Dodgers are in trouble. Greinke would only be able to start G3 and perhaps 6 on short rest.

Feels to me like winning G1 is crucial. Is the chance of doing that significantly better with Arrieta than with Lester? Or would it be better to have Arrieta in a matchup with Kershaw in G2. To me, those are the biggest questions. You can't really plan for the latter games of the series yet.

Then again, the Mets will probably win making much of this moot.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 14, 2015, 02:37:42 pm
I agree.  I would rather Arrieta start game one and 5, and have the option of having him pitch 3 or 4 innings or so on 2 days rest in game seven.

While hoping there IS no game seven.

Close second choice would be Lester 1 and 5, etc.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 02:28:56 pm
I get the logic.  But it begs the question - would you want Lester on short rest, when he hasn't been dominant on normal rest?

I don't buy not starting Arrietta on normal rest in Game 1.  Even if he doesn't pitch Game 4, you want him back out sooner rather than later.  And if he pitches game 5, he could give you a couple of innings in a Game 7 on two days rest.

I would not want Lester or Arrieta on short rest. I think the first six games should be a normal sequence, with Hendricks and whomever each pitching one each.  But I do get the point of having the guy you think could best come in for a relief appearance, if necessary in a game 7.  I don't know if that's Lester (who I believe has pitched over 200 innings for 7 of his last 8 years, so is used to that workload), or Arrieta (who can be so utterly dominating when he's on, but has already pitched 70 more innings this regular season than ever before).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 02:24:29 pm
As Ron notes, if there is a game 7, Hendricks would be in line for that start--assuming everybody goes on regular rest.  Game 2 starter would pitch a game 6 and game 1 starter would be on two days rest for game 7 after pitching game 5.

So, that's a bullpen stint for latter guy in a game 7 and, with Hendricks starting, would expect to see that happen. 

By the way, if Dodgers win tomorrow, Greinke won't pitch in first two games of NLCS and Kershaw would probably go in game 2 on regular rest.  Three days rest if pitches game 1, which seems unlikely--unless they want to have Kershaw pitching on short rest for entire series.

That's one strong argument (which I cited earlier) for starting Arrietta Saturday.  I'd much rather have him available in the bullpen in a Game 7 than Lester.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 02:22:00 pm
If you're going to cite Hendricks last two regular season starts as evidence, it cuts both ways.  Haren gve up 1 run on 6 hits and 1 BB in 13.1 over his last two starts.  By some measures (including WAR) he was a better pitcher than Hendricks on 2015.  I have very little confidence in either, but Hendricks hasn't done anything to justify dismissing Haren as an option out of hand.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 02:21:59 pm
As Ron notes, if there is a game 7, Hendricks would be in line for that start--assuming everybody goes on regular rest.  Game 2 starter would pitch a game 6 and game 1 starter would be on two days rest for game 7 after pitching game 5.

So, that's a bullpen stint for latter guy in a game 7 and, with Hendricks starting, would expect to see that happen. 

By the way, if Dodgers win tomorrow, Greinke won't pitch in first two games of NLCS and Kershaw would probably go in game 2 on regular rest.  Three days rest if pitches game 1, which seems unlikely--unless they want to have Kershaw pitching on short rest for entire series.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 02:17:19 pm
No games started on short rest, please.

I'm with Jeff.  Seems like the rotation options would be something like:

Option A
Day 1 (Game 1) Lester/Arrieta; Day 2 (Game 2) Arrieta/Lester; Day 3 travel; Day 4 (Game 3) Hendricks; Day 5 (Game 4) Hammel/Haren/Bullpen; Day 6 (Game 5) Lester/Arrieta; Day 7 travel; Day 8 (Game 6): Arrieta/Lester; Day 9 (Game 7) Hendricks

VS.

Option B
Day 1 (Game 1) Lester/Arrieta; Day 2 (Game 2) Arrieta/Lester; Day 3 travel; Day 4 (Game 3) Hendricks; Day 5(Game 4) Lester/Arrieta (3 days rest); Day 6 (Game 5) Arrieta/Lester (3 days rest); Day 7 travel; (Game 6) Hendricks; Day 8 Game 7) Lester/Arrieta

Under either scenario Hendricks would pitch twice if the series goes 7 games.  So after the initial games by Lester & Arrieta, the tradeoff over 7 games is a total of 2 or 3 games on short routine/rest for the two combined VS 2 games on regular routine/rest for Lester and 1 game by Hammel/Haren/bullpen.

Or am I missing something?
Arrieta has stressed how important his routine leading up to pitching is for him.  My impression is that is true for all starters, but maybe more so for him?  In the latter option, it seems likely that both Lester and Arrieta would be below their optimal performance for two of the first five games, and if one also pitches a seventh game, that means between the two of them 3 sub-optimal conditions out of five total appearances.

Between these two options I'd rather have Lester and Arrieta (in whichever order) pitching twice on regular routine and rest in the first six games than have both pitching twice on three games rest in the first five games in order to have Lester or Arrieta available for the seventh game. 

 

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 02:08:54 pm
Oh dear no.  Just no.  Kyle Hendricks is good at pitching.  Dan Haren is no longer good at it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 14, 2015, 02:04:16 pm
Lets just hit 3 or 4 HR's each game, have the bullpen pitch well, and win the series in 6 or less.  Won't need anybody going short-rest that way. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 02:01:22 pm
Guys like Hendricks tend to get exposed pretty quickly in the postseason.  I agree he's probably a better option than Hammel right now, but the problem is that he has zero margin for error with his stuff.

I'd almost consider Haren as an option, to be honest.  He's as fringy as Hendricks, but at least he's been through this a few times, and he was also good his last two times out.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 14, 2015, 02:01:07 pm
Sure seemed like Maddon could barely contain himself getting Hammel out of the game yesterday.  Just seems like Maddon has lost confidence in Hammel....

Obviously confidence is minimal.  I was almost surprised Maddon stayed with Hammel as long as he did.  Down 2, having already gotten two innings out of him, with 2 runners on in the second, I wondered whether Maddon might pinch hit for him already in the second. 

I pretty much figure any post-season game can/should be viewed as a bullpen game with your 3rd/4th starters.  Great if you can get 5 or 6 good innings, but no qualms about lifting a guy in the 5th (Hendricks) or 4th (Hammel).  Should be no different whether Hammel or Haren.  There are just so many off days in the playoffs, you never play more than two days straight, relievers are always available and adequately rested. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: jacey1 on October 14, 2015, 01:52:11 pm
Hammel is not the 3rd best we have right now...right now its Hendricks
Its all about what have you done for me lately, when you get into the playoffs
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 14, 2015, 01:46:07 pm
IMO Hammel is our 3rd best starter.

If it aint Arrieta or Lester then I want him on the mound.

As far as pitching on short rest I bet Lester's better suited for it so Im fine with him possibly going 3 times.

You dont get these opportunities very often.

If your horses are needed on short rest then saddle up.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 01:41:19 pm
Fifty years ago today, pitching on two days rest, Sandy Koufax shutout the Twins 2-0 to win the World Series.  I was there.

Before we say don't do it, the alternative has to be considered.

MadBum threw 5 shutout innings on 2 days rest last year.  Schilling started two games in a row on short rest in 2001 and was outstanding both times.  Special pitchers can do it.  It it ideal?  No - not so much because pitching on 3 days rest occasionally is a serious health risk, but because most guys aren't effective when they do it.  But the Cubs basically have a two man rotation right now, and the chance to set up their rotation with three off days.  I think you have to at least consider it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 01:36:35 pm
Lackey on Baez HR.

"If I had that one pitch to go back, I would definitely do something different," Lackey said. "I threw a pitch, kind of over the plate, to a hacker. And he ran into one."

Bitter much.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 01:31:37 pm
Arrieta has never pitched more than 157 innings in a season--and zero post-season add-on innings.  He has been so phenomenal late, of course, so seems counter-intuitive that might be tiring just a bit if pushed too far---- but maybe, just maybe, it would be a good thing having him pitch with normal rest for two starts in NLCS and leave it at that.

Lester, on other hand, has had multiple 200+ inning seasons and, of course, post-season add-ons.  He in not Arrieta in top-form, of course, but think maybe he can handle 3-day rest start(s) just fine relative to his top form.  So, makes sense to me if he goes game #1.

Not an obvious call either way.



I get the logic.  But it begs the question - would you want Lester on short rest, when he hasn't been dominant on normal rest?

I don't buy not starting Arrietta on normal rest in Game 1.  Even if he doesn't pitch Game 4, you want him back out sooner rather than later.  And if he pitches game 5, he could give you a couple of innings in a Game 7 on two days rest.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 01:31:34 pm
Haren didn't face the Mets with the current improved Mets offense (Wright, Cespedes, Conforto).  If you where going to use him Dodger Stadium wouldn't be a horrible idea.  I still would rather have Hammel on a short leash. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 01:27:13 pm
Sure seemed like Maddon could barely contain himself getting Hammel out of the game yesterday.  Just seems like Maddon has lost confidence in Hammel.

So, anybody think there is any chance that Cubs substitute Haren for Hammel to make that one start in the NLCS?  Not advocating that, but wonder if it's a realistic possibility.

It seemed like I remembered that Haren had one well against the Cardinals in the past, and because of that there was some speculation that he might be used against them, but he was not.  Just looked it up, and in 3 games against them this season he held them to a .664 OPS.  Over his career they had a .713 OPS in 10 games.

Haren only pitched one game against the Dodgers this season and one against the Mets. It's only one game against each, so maybe it doesn't mean anything.  But Mets hitters had an OPS of .658 (.678 for his carrer) compared to the Dodgers' 1.230 OPS (.741 for his career). 

But I agree that Joe clearly has very little confidence in Hammel at this point, so maybe he will consider using Haren over Hammel. Hendricks certainly seems to be ahead of Hammel at this point.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 01:26:45 pm
No games started on short rest, please.
Fifty years ago today, pitching on two days rest, Sandy Koufax shutout the Twins 2-0 to win the World Series.  I was there.

Before we say don't do it, the alternative has to be considered.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 14, 2015, 01:22:41 pm
Quote
No games started on short rest, please.

Agree.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 14, 2015, 01:18:48 pm
No games started on short rest, please.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 01:17:46 pm
We can't forget the magicians and the zoo animals.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 01:09:46 pm
I think, somehow, Maddon has turned around some of the Cubs disadvantages into advantages.

But, Maddon emphasizes process for the players. Go about your business.  Never mentions "winning" to his players.  Only concern yourself with next AB and fielding the next grounder.  So, think Maddon came in well aware of insulating his players from the collective baggage we, the fans, all have.  Different than most every other franchise. Don't ignore it--have to deal with it and so far, so good.

I always worry about the historical baggage.  Think might have played a role in 2007 and 2008 division series---after the 2003 meltdown. Players must feel that when they go about their business around town and fans stop them to chat.  But, have to put that in the trash can and Maddon is doing a good job with that.  Hope it can continue.

Agree with the entire post, but particularly the part about process. Maddon also said that if you focus on a future outcome, that instills fear of not achieving that outcome, and fear gets in the way of success.  I was explaining this to a family member recently and said that I found the philosophy to have application in everyday life as well. 

Amazingly, this has affected not just the players but an awful lot Cub fans and media folks as well (at least in Chicago).  A number of people have observed how the fans in Wrigley were unfazed by developments that would have struck fear in the heart and hopes of fans in prior playoffs.  Joe has created believers in first his players and eventually the fans as well. 

I've taken to referring to Joe as Yoda Maddon.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 01:09:21 pm
Hammel is getting too much rest.  Yesterday was 12 days off.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on October 14, 2015, 01:09:20 pm
It really is too bad they pulled Richard int the bullpen.  I think he would be our best option at this point if he was stretched out.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on October 14, 2015, 01:08:43 pm
I'm on board for that Reb.  I have far more confidence in Haren to not get caught up in the moment than Hammel, who seems to be a hothead when things go poorly.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 01:06:23 pm
Sure seemed like Maddon could barely contain himself getting Hammel out of the game yesterday.  Just seems like Maddon has lost confidence in Hammel.

So, anybody think there is any chance that Cubs substitute Haren for Hammel to make that one start in the NLCS?  Not advocating that, but wonder if it's a realistic possibility.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 14, 2015, 01:05:52 pm
In Joe I trust.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 01:01:45 pm
Arrieta has never pitched more than 157 innings in a season--and zero post-season add-on innings.  He has been so phenomenal late, of course, so seems counter-intuitive that might be tiring just a bit if pushed too far---- but maybe, just maybe, it would be a good thing having him pitch with normal rest for two starts in NLCS and leave it at that.

Lester, on other hand, has had multiple 200+ inning seasons and, of course, post-season add-ons.  He in not Arrieta in top-form, of course, but think maybe he can handle 3-day rest start(s) just fine relative to his top form.  So, makes sense to me if he goes game #1.

Not an obvious call either way.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 12:53:15 pm
I think starting Lester in game 1 would be a mistake. I like the option of using Arietta on short rest in Game 4 (and 7, should it come to that).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 14, 2015, 12:49:46 pm
I wonder if being young hasn't helped to some degree.  Other than a couple of months for Baez and Soler last summer, you've never been a loser.  You've heard the Cubs hype, so you expect you're going to winning for a long time.  Too young to feel like it's a once-in-a-lifetime moment.  Too young to be distracted by Cubs history or the weight of lifetime Cub-fan grandfathers. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BearHit on October 14, 2015, 12:45:18 pm
I don't have no stinkin' baggage
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 12:42:39 pm
...... I think maybe because it is so unbelievable that this would have happened so quickly, with such young and inexperienced players....

I think, somehow, Maddon has turned around some of the Cubs disadvantages into advantages.

First, the inexperienced players.  Think maybe Maddon has helped the veterans play better by his calming influence on the youngsters.  Vets see the younger guys thriving and if they can do it, we can too.  And works both ways too, of course. Clubhouse is mix of young and older, different races and nationalities. Of course, overall talent is the biggest factor of all but Maddon is really good at the balance thing.  Whatever is the total opposite of cookie-cutter approach, that's Maddon.   

Second, Maddon talks about PROCESS all the time. Love that word and implementing the word.  One post-game, Maddon talked about process in relation to the losing history baggage.  Said the fans should be worried. That's what diehard fans should do.  Maddon even said blogs should go ahead and worry.  Be worried. That's the job of the fans. But, Maddon emphasizes process for the players. Go about your business.  Never mentions "winning" to his players.  Only concern yourself with next AB and fielding the next grounder.  So, think Maddon came in well aware of insulating his players from the collective baggage we, the fans, all have.  Different than most every other franchise. Don't ignore it--have to deal with it and so far, so good.

I always worry about the historical baggage.  Think might have played a role in 2007 and 2008 division series---after the 2003 meltdown. Players must feel that when they go about their business around town and fans stop them to chat.  But, have to put that in the trash can and Maddon is doing a good job with that.  Hope it can continue.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 12:24:21 pm
Ross (from Stark's piece):

"I'm holding onto the memories right now," he said. "I'm holding onto each moment that I'm never going to get back. So I want to take it in. I want to enjoy it. I want to relish it, for these guys but for myself, too. It just doesn't happen every day. It doesn't happen where you change the culture in an organization, a clubhouse and a city, where all of a sudden, winning is expected. That doesn't happen every day. And that's what's happening here."

I saw that quote and also thought it was very cool and very descriptive.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 12:22:45 pm
ChicagoCubsOnline ‏@TheCCO  2m2 minutes ago
Chris Bosio just said on @ESPN1000 that Jon Lester will probably start Game 1 of the NLCS #Cubs
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 14, 2015, 12:21:56 pm
Ross (from Stark's piece):

"I'm holding onto the memories right now," he said. "I'm holding onto each moment that I'm never going to get back. So I want to take it in. I want to enjoy it. I want to relish it, for these guys but for myself, too. It just doesn't happen every day. It doesn't happen where you change the culture in an organization, a clubhouse and a city, where all of a sudden, winning is expected. That doesn't happen every day. And that's what's happening here."
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 12:16:49 pm
Including post-season, Cubs are THIRTY games over .500 in last 68 games.  Less than 1/2 of a season.

49-19.

Pinch me.

Yes! Pinch me, indeed.

What these guys have done is astonishing (and I use that word advisedly).  I realized this morning that there is a sense in which this still hasn't really sunk in.  My rational mind knows this is all real, but there it has not fully sunk in emotionally, I think maybe because it is so unbelievable that this would have happened so quickly, with such young and inexperienced players.

I'm going to just continue enjoying this magical ride, and I'll wait to let it fully sink in after this is all over.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 12:10:01 pm
Including post-season, Cubs are THIRTY games over .500 in last 68 games.  Less than 1/2 of a season.

49-19.

Pinch me.
8-6 the rest of the way would be nice.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 14, 2015, 11:28:34 am
That's only 117 win pace over a full season.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 14, 2015, 11:27:45 am
Including post-season, Cubs are THIRTY games over .500 in last 68 games.  Less than 1/2 of a season.

49-19.

Pinch me.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 10:47:12 am
Wasn't it just 1 game in the playoffs? 

2 starts.  1.69 ERA.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 10:20:43 am
He hasn't done so in a long time, but Lackey in the postseason on short rest actually had a pretty good track record.  I probably would have gone back to Garcia myself, given how few pitches he threw on Saturday.

Wasn't it just 1 game in the playoffs? 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 14, 2015, 10:16:19 am
To Cardinal's fan and their excuses.

Jake Arrieta ‏@JArrieta34  Oct 4
Whatever helps keep your hope alive, just know, it doesn't matter. @Cubs

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 14, 2015, 10:08:35 am
Matheny continues to defend starting Lackey, but history says Lackey on short rest and away from Busch is a disaster.  Of course, around here they're already making excuses.  They had injuries, and, yes, they did, probably losing Martinez was the most difficult to overcome, but arrogance won't allow them to concede that the Cubs are becoming a monster machine.

He hasn't done so in a long time, but Lackey in the postseason on short rest actually had a pretty good track record.  I probably would have gone back to Garcia myself, given how few pitches he threw on Saturday.

Get used to facing opposing pitchers on 3 days rest, because if we draw the Dodgers I bet you're going to see Kershaw do it twice (and maybe three times).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on October 14, 2015, 08:50:04 am
Thanks for the link to the Sullivan article, Ron.  Amazing that little dude wrote the article, which is BY FAR the best piece he's ever come up with pertaining to the Cubs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BearHit on October 14, 2015, 08:26:05 am
Matheny would have had to defend NOT starting Lackey as well if he had gone that route - hindsight makes everyone smarter
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: EightyTwo on October 14, 2015, 07:46:12 am
Matheny continues to defend starting Lackey, but history says Lackey on short rest and away from Busch is a disaster.  Of course, around here they're already making excuses.  They had injuries, and, yes, they did, probably losing Martinez was the most difficult to overcome, but arrogance won't allow them to concede that the Cubs are becoming a monster machine.

I've heard so much the past twelve hours about "woe for us, we would have won without all of our injuries.  The Cubs had the healthiest team in baseball and just got completely lucky.  They are not a good team." 

I've also seen a lot of hatred of Maddon as well. I'm not sure what that stems from.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 07:38:05 am
Even Paul Sullivan is a believer now.  Nary a cynical or sarcastic note in this article.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-cubs-way-sullivan-spt-1014-20151013-column.html
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 14, 2015, 07:25:28 am
This is just the beginning.  I can't believe that Hoyer will not shore up the starting staff and pen over the winter.  With the offense improving though experience and perhaps an addition, barring major injuries, we should be monsters for the next few years.

It is good to have a great team, but we have had them before.  But it is better to have a great system.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 14, 2015, 07:00:31 am
A VERY animated Theo in video and Stark piece on Cubs.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/page/playoffs15_CubsWinNLDS/cubs-win-big-one-wrigley-field

Thanks for the link.  Very, very cool. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 06:56:44 am
Matheny continues to defend starting Lackey, but history says Lackey on short rest and away from Busch is a disaster.  Of course, around here they're already making excuses.  They had injuries, and, yes, they did, probably losing Martinez was the most difficult to overcome, but arrogance won't allow them to concede that the Cubs are becoming a monster machine.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 14, 2015, 06:52:39 am
Both Cubs and Cardinals now with 101 wins for the year.  I had a Cardinal fan tell me, "You can't do that!  You can't count the post season.  If you could count the post season, the Cardinals in past years would have up to 107!"  I said, "We aren't done yet."
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: buff on October 14, 2015, 06:03:38 am
I was on pins and needles the whole game.  Couldn't sit still but now looking back I think we can say that we were the better team. This is a different team they have no fear.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 14, 2015, 12:53:16 am
At just the right time.

Now win 8 more.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 14, 2015, 12:08:53 am
The Cubs have now won 12 of their last 13 games.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 13, 2015, 11:28:38 pm
A VERY animated Theo in video and Stark piece on Cubs.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/page/playoffs15_CubsWinNLDS/cubs-win-big-one-wrigley-field
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 13, 2015, 11:02:47 pm
Damb.  Too bad he didn't point!  :)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 13, 2015, 10:58:48 pm
Siegrist is a reverse splits pitcher. Had .811 opposition OPS from lefties. Way tougher on righties---pitches from 3B side of rubber and high 3/4 delivery, close to overhand. So, think lefties get a good look at him. A workhorse guy. Fowler said after game that Schwarber told Fowler standing in OF during a pitching change that was going to homer off Siegrist. There you go. A called shot.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 13, 2015, 10:47:58 pm
I had Siegrist on my fantasy team most of the year.  He had a fantastic year, piled up as many points as most full time closers.  Can't believe those shots to Rizzo, twice, and Schwarber.  Holy cats.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 13, 2015, 10:46:03 pm
Rizzo/Schwarber.

http://m.mlb.com/chc/video/topic/94784770/v522791283/stlchc-gm4-rizzo-schwarber-discuss-victory
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Deeg on October 13, 2015, 10:41:36 pm
When did Motte turn into Walter White?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 13, 2015, 09:45:25 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsQT2qjOjyw&sns=em

Thanks Dave for this link.  I was telling my kids about Eddie Vetter being an incredible Cubs fan.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 13, 2015, 08:20:49 pm
I recognized Maddon, Bryant and Rizzo.  Can anyone identify the rest?

Maddon, Theo, ?, Ross, Motte, Denofria, ?, Hammel, Rizzo, Lester, Wood
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 13, 2015, 08:20:08 pm
How do  you really feel, FD?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on October 13, 2015, 08:18:20 pm
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Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 13, 2015, 08:10:16 pm
I recognized Maddon, Bryant and Rizzo.  Can anyone identify the rest?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 13, 2015, 08:06:13 pm
Theo might have had a little to bit to drink.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 13, 2015, 07:52:24 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsQT2qjOjyw&sns=em
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 13, 2015, 08:35:14 am
According to Jessie Sanchez, Maddon spent a whole with Monacada trying to convince him to wait until 7/2 to sign. Maddon made a good enough of an impression that Monacada at least considered it. I think it is pretty amazing that Maddon would go there to talk to an 18 year old that even if he signed with the Cubs he may never of managed to try and get him to sign.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Pistol on October 13, 2015, 08:09:34 am
Quote
It was still early Monday afternoon when Kyle Schwarber walked up into the stands of Wrigley Field. He slipped into a seat in an empty stadium and tried to picture what was about to unfold in the storied ballpark all around him.

"I just sat in the stands," he would say later, "thinking about what it would be like."

He imagined the noise and the bedlam. He imagined the brilliance of the ace who was about to take the mound. He imagined the electricity of a pivotal October baseball game between the Chicago Cubs and the St. Louis Cardinals, two longtime rivals who had never met before in Wrigley in a game of this magnitude.

Quote
"So I'd say it exceeded my expectations," Schwarber said, afterward, "by infinity."

^^^This.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Pistol on October 13, 2015, 06:52:13 am
Jayson Stark on Cubs.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/page/playoffs15_CubsRockWrigley/cubs-historic-slugging-rocks-wrigley-field-game-3-win

This gives me chills.  Hard to fathom how young and good these kids are.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 13, 2015, 02:10:56 am
Jayson Stark on Cubs.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015/story/_/page/playoffs15_CubsRockWrigley/cubs-historic-slugging-rocks-wrigley-field-game-3-win
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 12, 2015, 01:35:24 pm
With, or without a towel?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 12, 2015, 01:31:20 pm
Motte threw a simulated game yesterday.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 12, 2015, 12:08:35 am
The Cubs announced two roster moves Sunday that impact the 40-man roster, not the active NLDS roster.

The Cubs selected the contract of catcher Taylor Teagarden from Triple-A Iowa and added him to the 40-man roster. In order to create a spot for on the roster for Teagarden, the Cubs designated LHP Tsuyoshi Wada for assignment.

With the two moves, the Cubs’ 40-man roster stands at 40 players.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 11, 2015, 06:50:56 pm
Actually, Madison started his professional career with Padres---then went to Pirates-Padres again-Cardinals-Padres for third time-Cubs.

It's all in Cubs Media Guide. You can even read about the three folks who work in Cubs Mental Skills Program. Anybody of any consequence not listed in the Media Guide likely doesn't work for the Cubs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 11, 2015, 06:20:03 pm
Kiley McDaniel's latest podcast broke down the Cubs front office and what types of responsibilities each title may carry around baseball. Some of the more interesting stuff came towards the end as they got into how different teams use scouts. One distinction was using scouts to follow a certain team's farm system vs having a scout follow a geographical region. He implied that higher revenue teams use the organizational following. They also tend to switch out scouts to different teams every 2-3 years.

The other topic was how teams use veteran scouts. He implied that most teams will use their veteran scouts on AAA/major league teams because it is a cushier job (larger cities, better amenities, etc...). McDaniel thought they would be better used doing scouting on younger players, draft eligible players and July 2nd guys.

Parts of it where interesting, parts where boring, but if you have an interest in how front offices are set up it is a nice primer. He didn't have any working knowledge on exactly how the front office works for the Cubs FWIW.  McDaniel mentioned that he once interviewed for a job with Jaron Madison and that Madison worked under Lunow with the Cardinals. That was something I wasn't aware of. Since he came from San Diego I just assumed he came from Boston orginally.  Madison got his start with the Pirates, went to San Diego, then the Cardinals and back to San Diego with Hoyer.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 11, 2015, 05:18:28 pm
Not as far as I know.  But it might have reminded the front office how easily it can happen.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 11, 2015, 03:05:21 pm
Odd news re: Teagarden with regard to timing...was Ross possibly concussed on that foul tip?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 11, 2015, 01:14:13 pm
Fifth inning, I believe.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 11, 2015, 01:13:18 pm
Apparently Rondon was locked in the bullpen bathroom for about 5 minutes in game 1.

I believe that the report was that happened after the game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 11, 2015, 11:55:46 am
Apparently Rondon was locked in the bullpen bathroom for about 5 minutes in game 1.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 11, 2015, 11:55:37 am
Breakfast at Wrigley today:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRDQCYwUYAAbJ32.jpg:medium)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 11, 2015, 11:48:37 am
https://mobile.twitter.com/CarrieMuskat/status/653247499721949184
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 11, 2015, 10:49:11 am
This is an interesting quote from Hendricks.  For the first 3+ months of the season, Curt and I (and others, I'm sure) voiced our frustration about the Cubs playing down to opponents.  This confirms that Maddon noticed that too.

“It happened right after the All-Star break,” said Kyle Hendricks. “We had a little meeting with (Joe Maddon) at the beginning of the second half. He told us that we couldn’t have a different mentality depending on the opponent – we couldn’t get up for the good teams and not show up for the bad teams. I think we changed our mentality from there.”

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/sunday-notes-cubs-pirates-managers/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 10, 2015, 09:00:58 pm
Well, they got there.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 10, 2015, 08:45:22 pm
Yet Cardinal radio announcers kept saying if only the Cards could get into our bad bullpen.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on October 10, 2015, 08:37:36 pm
Also said that the Cubs pen had the lowest ERA in the National League in the month of September
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on October 10, 2015, 08:33:27 pm
MLB Network was talking about Maddon having the pitcher hit 8th and showed stats for the Cubs second hitter in the lineup over the course of the year. The Cubs 2 hitters were 1st in the NL in home runs, RBI, and slugging percentage. Interesting.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 10, 2015, 08:24:21 pm
Pedro's day gig is on the MLB Network.

Great win and fun to see the Cardinals choke.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 10, 2015, 08:17:23 pm
MLB Network just pointed out that the Cubs led the NL in HR, RBI and SLG% for the season from the second spot in the batting order: 34 HR, 98 RBI, .476 SLG.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 10, 2015, 05:17:23 pm
Cuzzi and the Cubs (from Ken Rosenthal, who is obviously a Cubs homer who just wants to make excuses for them):

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/baseball-joe/blog/chicago-cubs-umpire-phil-cuzzi-home-plate-nlds-st-louis-cardinals-complaints-101015
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 09, 2015, 03:18:28 pm
In Heyman's Cubs notes in this column, he says that the Cubs will try to lock up Arrieta this offseason.  He also says they'll make a run at re-signing Fowler too, who has been "awesome" in the clubhouse.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25332833/inside-baseball-ng-in-play-for-phillies-mlb-diversity-issues-and-more-news

Quote
One thing the Cubs should be prepared for is more bunting on Jon Lester. The scout of one playoff team says one team has a plan to bunt (a lot) on Lester to the third base side. Lester is a great pro with an even greater postseason record. But the scout suggests the goal is to "frustrate" him via the bunt ... The Cubs are expected to take a look at the big starters who are free agents such as David Price and Jordan Zimmerman, but perhaps their biggest contract meeting will be with sudden superstar Jake Arrieta, who they will try to lock up this winter, if possible. While Arrieta has Scott Boras, he also was previously in a place where it didn't work at all, and seems to understand it wouldn't be such a bad idea to stay in Chicago ... Joe Maddon is moving into the all-time great category. "He creates an atmosphere where guys play loose," one rival scout said, admiringly. (One quibble: Tommy La Stella is not a No. 5 hitter but a "seven or right hitter," one scout said) ... The Cubs have made a lot of brilliant moves but they may have caught a break in the draft a couple years ago when the Astros picked Mark Appel No. 1 , leaving Kris Bryant for Chicago. The Cubs love college hitters high for their predictability (they took Kyle Schwarber the next year), so they may still have taken Bryant, but it's no certainty they would have. Bryant ("so agile, so instinctive," says one scout) has turned out to be a brilliant all-around star, with the cutting down on strikeouts only area for improvement ... Center field will be an area of need, and they haven't ruled out a run at Dexter Fowler, who is said to have been "awesome" in the clubhouse, as well as on the field. Denard Span and Austin Jackson, who is a backup for them now, are two more center field options. Prospect Albert Almora, a former No. 1 pick out of high school in Miami, is a couple years away.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 09, 2015, 10:02:58 am
The bar with Cubs fans (who either weren't paying attention to the game or flipping off the camera) the telecast kept cutting away to.... The last couple times the announcer referred to it as the "draft kings Cubs fan bar".  As if there wasn't enough advertising during the commercials..

It actually IS the "Draft Kings Fantasy Sports Zone".  It's the old Captain Morgan Club that's attached to the ballpark.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 09, 2015, 09:52:20 am
Arrieta analyzed:

http://m.cubs.mlb.com/chc/video/topic/7417714/v520238283/mlb-tonight-measures-arrietas-metrics-with-statcast/?query=jake%2Barrieta
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BullingersEars on October 09, 2015, 05:53:46 am
The bar with Cubs fans (who either weren't paying attention to the game or flipping off the camera) the telecast kept cutting away to.... The last couple times the announcer referred to it as the "draft kings Cubs fan bar".  As if there wasn't enough advertising during the commercials..
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 09, 2015, 04:27:15 am
Schwarber on the golf course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=11&v=knUPMYzrGxo
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 09, 2015, 04:24:18 am
Arizona Phil raised an interesting notion on his site--if Cubs win Cardinals series and advance, Cubs could end up with best record in baseball by end of post-season combining regular season and post-season.  Cubs currently 2 1/2 games behind Cardinals, although I prefer to think of it as a tie going into game one, but there you go.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 09, 2015, 12:14:40 am
There's an option in the user profile that might be connected.  Go to Account Settings and then to Look and Layout.

The "Use quick reply on topic display"  should be set to  "show, on by default".
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 08, 2015, 11:22:45 pm
I think the one where Cubs fans where flipping people off.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 08, 2015, 11:11:36 pm
one more....

- The "Draftkings" Cubs bar made me want to throw something through the television.
you lost me on this one
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: goblue007 on October 08, 2015, 10:51:15 pm
Good stuff. Hurdle and Yost get a bad rep from the mathematicians. I like our Joe above all but those guys are okay.

Yeah I believe that was just the Captain Morgan Club outside or attached to Wrigley.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BullingersEars on October 08, 2015, 08:36:05 pm
one more....

- The "Draftkings" Cubs bar made me want to throw something through the television.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BullingersEars on October 08, 2015, 08:34:26 pm
A few thoughts...

-  Castro sure turns the DP well for a guy that's only been there for a few months.  Someone on here posted a few years back that scouts thought he was out of position, and he could be a natural fit at 2B.  Really happy for him.

-  I loved Schwarber/Bryant in the corner outfield position, and think that should be the plan moving forward.  With that said, much credit to Bryant after he moved to third last night.  Two huge plays over there....

-  Rodriguez clearly mouthed..... "I'm going to F*@*#&n kill you..... you f(*$&*%  b*%&CH......." towards whoever (Ross?) from the dugout.  I had a good time trying to explain all that behavior to my six year old.

-  Not sure I've ever seen anything like the Cubs postgame celebration in the game of baseball.  Silly cheers, clapping, hands glued to a helmet..... I enjoyed it a great deal.

-  Arrieta is an interesting cat, eh? My hunch is he's kind of seen an odd duck in the clubhouse.  Labored in those last couple innings... had visions of Prior, who everyone thought was this mental superman before caving in the Bartman game.  Glad Arrieta worked through it.  Too bad he can only go once vs. the Cards, but Game three will be pivotal. Sweep, avoid a sweep, or go up a pivotal 2-1....

-  Fowler sure turned things around since the all-star break.  He was so bad vs. righties in the first half. 

- That was the biggest strike zone I've seen in quite some time.

- Clint Hurdle (who I like) started his presser by talking about bull riding analogies.  I'm glad we have the manager we do..... seems to have a really understanding and knack for communicating with all sorts of folks. 

- Do we decide between signing Price and re-signing Arrieta?  I hope at least one is an option.

-  Lester with the potential of two starts coming up.  Time to earn that $$$.  I feel good with him in this spot...

-  My family and I went to Wrigley at the end of July.  At some point when things are slow this winter I'll write all about it.  We arrived the day after Hamels no hit us..... I thought we were going to be there to see the Cubs completely implode.  Instead they've been the best team in baseball (by quite a bit?) since the start of August.

- Lastly, my son went to bed (after the first inning) last night in his Cubs shirt.  Was sure nice telling him the news....   

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 08, 2015, 08:12:24 pm
Garcia vs

LHB: .250

RHB: .218


I'd say Montero starts.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 08, 2015, 07:39:10 pm
I wonder who starts at catcher in game 2.  Ross obviously goes game 1 but with Garcia going game 2, do you start Montero or Ross?  Or does Maddon do something crazy and start Schwarber behind the plate?  I'm really curious what the lineup will be like for game 2.  Will Jackson, Soler, or Denorfia play? 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 08, 2015, 06:06:46 pm
I agree with that.  The Cubs will certainly trade him unless they don't.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 08, 2015, 04:20:19 pm
Yeah, think it's getting very hard to figure out how to proceed with Castro/Baez in the future.  I go back and forth every couple of weeks.  It can wait.

This is baseball.  Things change.  Let's see after post-season.  Think clubs around baseball probably mostly view Castro as a 2B now--not just Cubs--and that cuts down on his trade value compared to last off-season when probably most clubs viewed him as a SS.  Perhaps some still think SS.  Who knows, maybe the brass will view Castro as a fixture at 2B, going forward, by end of post-season. Or, maybe not.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 08, 2015, 04:08:48 pm
Baez has a much higher ceiling.  Castro has a much higher (although not an acceptable) floor.  Barring a blowaway offer, I wouldn't trade either of them until I get a better feel of how they will develop.

Of course, "blowaway offer" is an extremely subjective criteria.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 08, 2015, 04:01:22 pm
Castro's 2B defense is excellent.  An asset.  (Same would be true, or more true, for Baez or Russell.)  He's definitely improved his trade value a lot compared to July. 

If you were trading Castro or Baez, what would be the pros and cons of trading one versus the other? 

On one of the DP's, yesterday, Castro was very lucky he didn't have Coghlan coming into 2nd.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 08, 2015, 03:20:34 pm
Starlin Castro was getting a lot of love on MLB Network today.  Lot of oohing and ahhing about (a) how he handled losing his job, (b) how well he's been playing 2B, particularly the DP turns, and (c) his improved hitting.  There seemed to be a consensus that Castro is a better second basemen than he was short stop.

That seems to have been the case in the games I've seen.

Both of the DP turns by Castro in the game last night, particularly the second one that saved (at least) one run were terrific.  DeRosa talked about how hard it is to make the transition from SS to 2B on DP turns, and how impressed he has been with the way Castro has done that, and did so as quickly as he has.

I've been convinced for some time that Castro would be traded if Baez shows he can handle major league pitching.  The way he has been playing, particularly his defense, has made me far less certain of that.  At the very least he has surely dramatically improved his value if he is traded.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JR on October 08, 2015, 12:21:15 pm
Interview with Theo after the game.  He says that two weeks ago Schwarber told him he was going to hit a HR off Cole into the river. 

http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_type/theo-epstein-jake-was-domiant


That's pretty awesome. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 08, 2015, 07:52:01 am
Interview with Theo after the game.  He says that two weeks ago Schwarber told him he was going to hit a HR off Cole into the river. 

http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_type/theo-epstein-jake-was-domiant


Theo closes the interview with a perfect balance between looking ahead to a bright future and focusing on (and appreciating) the moment.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 08, 2015, 07:20:03 am
Interview with Theo after the game.  He says that two weeks ago Schwarber told him he was going to hit a HR off Cole into the river. 

http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_type/theo-epstein-jake-was-domiant
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 07, 2015, 10:26:18 pm
How The Cubs Won The NL Wild-Card Game
2015 MLB PLAYOFFS   UPDATED 11:09 PM OCT 7, 2015
11:09 PM Only 11 Wins To Go

It’s official: the Chicago Cubs have survived the wild-card gantlet.

With the victory, they’re now the second-best team in baseball according to our Elo ratings (behind the Toronto Blue Jays). That makes them narrowly favored to win their next series against the division-rival St. Louis Cardinals: Elo says they have a 51.6 percent probability of going on to the National League Championship Series.

It also makes them favorites to represent the National League in the World Series. Elo gives Chicago a 28 percent chance of winning the NL pennant, as well as nearly a 15 percent chance of winning it all.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/chicago-cubs-pittsburgh-pirates-nl-wild-card/?ex_cid=538twitter
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 07, 2015, 09:44:28 pm
Nothing.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 07, 2015, 08:55:34 pm
A little rookie nervousness by Russell.  Should have been a double play.

How much will it cost the Cubs?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 07, 2015, 07:20:23 pm
One of the biggest intangibles is luck, or random variation, and neither have anything to do with who is or isn't wearing a uniform.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 07, 2015, 05:42:18 pm
If the Ross were on the Cubs in 2013 and 2014, do you think they would have made the playoffs?
We'll never know, but many teams that shouldn't do well, do.  My personal opinion is that the best team in baseball in terms of talent hasn't won the WS in years.  This year some of the best teams in baseball on paper didn't even make the playoffs.  There are intangibles that tip the scales.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 07, 2015, 05:11:23 pm
If the Ross were on the Cubs in 2013 and 2014, do you think they would have made the playoffs?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 07, 2015, 04:33:09 pm
Anyone who doesn't believe in the "intangibles", or whatever you want to call what a guy like Ross brings to a team (especially a young team like this one), is a fool.
Intangibles can be extremely important to a team with good players.

They are worthless to a team with bad players.
Instant proof.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 07, 2015, 04:22:21 pm
Intangibles can be extremely important to a team with good players.

They are worthless to a team with bad players.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 07, 2015, 02:31:19 pm
Anyone who doesn't believe in the "intangibles", or whatever you want to call what a guy like Ross brings to a team (especially a young team like this one), is a fool.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BearHit on October 07, 2015, 01:37:47 pm
5 1/2 for me - you must be in a good time zone
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 07, 2015, 01:30:32 pm
Shouldn't have read that and then the other linked ESPN pieces while I'm sitting here at work.  It's going to be a long four and a half hours til game time.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 07, 2015, 01:25:38 pm
Something that I find interesting is the Astros and Cubs are often compared as long teams on the rise.

The Astros playoff starting lineup has 3 players in the age 25 or under age season.  The Cubs will have 3-4 that will be starting above their age 25 season.  (This is different from their actual age.  This is Rizzo's age 25 season.)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 07, 2015, 01:02:00 pm
Great read.  That's why Ross will be back next year if he wants to be.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 07, 2015, 12:40:48 pm
Good read about David Ross:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13824211/their-backup-catcher-176-hitting-david-ross

Thanks very much for that link, brjones.  There was a point late in the season that either J.D. or Len said that Ross might be the real MVP for the team, which seemed like an absurd thing to say. I'm sure that he didn't mean it literally, but he was making a point about how exceptionally valuable Ross has been in spite of his on-the-field limitations. Beyond the point about Ross, the article does an excellent job of arguing for the importance of the intangible effects of "chemistry."
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 07, 2015, 12:08:36 pm
Good read about David Ross:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13824211/their-backup-catcher-176-hitting-david-ross
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 07, 2015, 12:04:39 pm
I agree that there is no one that is likely to be used.  But you might as well have someone there that MIGHT be used.  Either could be useful in a double switch, even for an inning or two.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 07, 2015, 10:44:46 am
Dave, if you look at the 40-man roster, a 16th position player would be either Szczur or Herrera.  Neither likely to be very useful.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 07, 2015, 10:34:41 am
Hard to think of a circumstance in which Hendricks would be used in the game.  I would have thought an extra pinch hitter would have been potentially more useful.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 07, 2015, 10:34:13 am
Hendricks is there in case the gane goes 16 innings.  I hope Arrieta goes 9 anyway.  I don't know that I'll be able to handle Strop on the mound in a close game.  Hopefully we only use Arrieta and maybe Rondon.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 07, 2015, 10:06:41 am
I guess Hendricks is your 25th man.  Small surprise, but I doubt the 25th man gets used in any case.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 07, 2015, 09:43:59 am
Cubs Wild Card Roster

Pitchers (10)
Jake Arrieta
Jon Lester
Kyle Hendricks
Hector Rondon
Pedro Strop
Fernando Rodney
Justin Grimm
Travis Wood
Clayton Richard
Trevor Cahill

Position Players (15)
Anthony Rizzo
Starlin Castro
Kris Bryant
Addison Russell
Dexter Fowler
Kyle Schwarber
Chris Coghlan
Chris Denorfia
Tommy La Stella
Javier Baez
Austin Jackson
Miguel Montero
David Ross
Jorge Soler
Quintin Berry
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 07, 2015, 09:01:18 am
Matt Clement was filthy. Another guy who couldn't throw a baseball straight to save his life...everything moved...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 07, 2015, 03:03:51 am
Arrieta fielding.

ESPN:

Pitcher: Jake Arrieta

Defensive Runs Saved: 6

Arrieta's improvement from breakout starter in 2014 (including a 2.53 ERA) to one of the best pitchers in baseball in 2015 (1.77 ERA) was at least partly due to the Cubs' defense. As a team, the Cubs improved from the worst defense in the National League in 2014 (minus-33 DRS) to the fifth best in 2015 (28 DRS). Meanwhile, Arrieta himself improved defensively by nine runs, thanks mostly to improved range. He made 11 more plays than an average pitcher on the balls hit to him, the most in the NL.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 07, 2015, 02:06:18 am
Nice piece on Matt Clement--last Cubs pitcher to get a W in post-season game.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/jon-greenberg/post/_/id/1371/matt-clement-rooting-for-jake-arrieta-to-end-cubs-drought-in-playoffs
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Cubsin on October 07, 2015, 12:39:16 am
If they just seeded the four Wild Card teams, we would have had Houston at Pittsburgh and the Yankees at the Cubs. They could even seed the six division winners. No team plays a balanced schedule, and every team plays interleague games during the regular season. They could also reseed after each round, although the hotels, airlines and local tax collectors might howl. That would at least eliminate the foolishness about who won the midseason exhibition game. The two best teams would meet in the World Series, and the team with the better record (or tiebreaker) would earn home field advantage. Both teams could come from the AL or NL.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 06, 2015, 09:29:09 pm
By just about any analysis, one of the three best teams in the NL (and one of the 4-5 best teams in MLB) will be eliminated tomorrow. 

They really should just seed the playoffs based on record.  There's no reason the Dodgers and Mets should get an easy pass just because they are geographically closer to crappy teams. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 06, 2015, 09:22:27 pm
If one accepts that analysis, it's truly a shame that one of the two "best" teams in the NL will be eliminated after 1 postseason game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on October 06, 2015, 08:54:42 pm
That sounds right to me.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 06, 2015, 06:07:47 pm
Fivethirtyeight.com has the Cubs as the third best team in MLB this year behind the Blue Jays and the Pirates.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/best-2015-mlb-teams-blue-jays-elo/?ex_cid=538fb
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on October 06, 2015, 04:04:19 pm
Just read that Castro led the National League with a .426 batting average in September.  I knew he'd been really good since the benching, but didn't realize he was THAT good.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 06, 2015, 03:21:25 pm
http://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/las-vegas/?s=900
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 06, 2015, 03:19:21 pm
There's a line listed for Houston-NY on ESPN, but nothing for Cubs-Pirates.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 06, 2015, 03:11:36 pm
I heard that the Cubs are a slight favorite.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 06, 2015, 02:49:38 pm
The Pirates and the Cubs are close enough in talent that tomorrow is little more than a coin toss.  Anyone know the Vegas odds?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 06, 2015, 01:37:55 pm
The thing I'm least looking forward to about the post-season is having to experience it without Len and JD.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 06, 2015, 12:18:43 pm
Is this true?  I'm undecided.

Quote from: Joe Buck
"If I could call Cubs games in the World Series, it would be the highlight of my career," Buck said.

When pressed if he wasn't being a bit hyperbolic given all that he's done at Fox, which includes being on the call for four World Series in his hometown of St. Louis, Buck reiterated his statement.

"When people say, 'What's the one thing you want to do?' that's my answer: Cubs in the World Series," Buck said. "I don't want to do an NBA Finals or a Kentucky Derby or moderate a presidential debate, as if that would happen. I want to sit at Wrigley Field, look out and know that a World Series game is about to start. It would be the cherry on top."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-joe-buck-cubs-sherman-sports-media-spt-1007-20151006-column.html
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chiman on October 06, 2015, 11:15:28 am
Great Article...Thanks Ben
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 06, 2015, 10:14:04 am
Nice.  Thanks, ben.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on October 06, 2015, 09:26:28 am
Below is an article from the New Yorker magazine written by former Cub Adrian Cardenas:

"I met Anthony Rizzo, who has just led the Chicago Cubs to the playoffs, in Mesa, Arizona, in 2012. We were at spring training for the Cubs. He was a first baseman who had been traded to the team from the San Diego Padres, and I was a second baseman who had been claimed off waivers from the Oakland Athletics. I had yet to make it to the majors; he had had a brief stint, a cup of coffee, with San Diego, where he struggled and was eventually demoted. We both knew we would likely start the season in Triple A, but we wanted to make good first impressions with our new team. When we discovered that we grew up forty minutes from each other—he in Parkland, Florida, me in Miami—we reminisced about the beach, and joked that in Arizona, your only chance of finding water was to take a bat and smash open a cactus.

When we got to Triple A, we sublet neighboring apartments in downtown Des Moines, our team’s home city. About a week into the season, he heard that I played piano; once, in some hotel lobby on the road, he dared me to play. I did, and when we got back to Des Moines, he sent me a text asking me to come to his place. I found him sitting on a chair, butchering some pop song on a newly purchased keyboard. He wanted to get it just right in order to impress his girlfriend when she visited. “Guy, teach me how to play this,” he said, “I need to learn this song in two days.” I laughed. The keys weren’t weighted, there were no pedals, and the keyboard didn’t have enough octaves to play the song. It was like stepping up to the plate with a Wiffle ball bat. He had never played the piano, but his instincts were good, and he wouldn’t move on to another measure until he could play the previous one. He spent hours practicing, and would occasionally call me, asking about notes and rhythm—how to do it like the pros, essentially. In a couple of days, he even managed to turn out something on the low end of decent.


This, of course, was not unlike the way he worked on his craft as a ballplayer. I have watched him, ground ball after ground ball, become one of the best defenders in the game. He’s better known for his power at the plate, but his hands are as smooth as a shortstop’s, and I know he takes special pride in that, because fielding always lingers in the shadow of hitting, never receiving as much credit but always deserving more.

My own defense, on the other hand, was a question mark. Was I quick enough? Versatile enough? Could I make the routine play consistently? I put so much importance on every play. Early in that 2012 season, in Triple A, I dove for a ball between first and second, and it kicked off the heel of my glove. The scorekeeper marked it as an error. I was furious, in part because I should’ve made the play, but also because I didn’t think I deserved the error. When the game ended, our manager called me into his office and told me that the error was removed—Rizzo had spoken to the scorekeeper and changed his mind. From then on, we were brothers.

I made my major-league debut on May 7, 2012. Before I left Des Moines, I swung by Rizzo’s place to share the news; he gave me a hug and said that he never wanted to see me in Triple A again. While I was in the majors, all anyone talked about was when the Cubs would promote Rizzo. His .342 batting average, twenty-three home runs, and sixty-two R.B.I.s—in just seventy games—forced the issue, and, on June 26th, he got the call. In order to make room on the roster, someone had to get demoted. That someone was me. Rizzo arrived in Chicago and took over the lease of my apartment. He pulled into the driveway as I was loading my car with luggage. He rolled down his window and smiled. “What are they thinking—you weren’t even doing that good,” I joked. He helped me with my bags and looked like he was going to apologize before I told him not to dare. Rizzo was named the Rookie of the Month that July—insuring, just as he had hoped, that he would never see me in Triple A again.

When I was recalled to the majors, a month later, Rizzo was already one of the team’s leaders. On the few days that I started at second base, he would heckle me. Mid pop fly, he’d warn me not to run into a tree, or trip over a computer; when a batter hit a towering fly ball, he’d ask if it was too high for me to catch, if I needed assistance. This might seem odd, or aggressive, but it was just a way to keep a teammate loose—the kind of thing that helped us play better. Rizzo was good at that.


One day, the morning after a long night game, I found him in the training room. We had a game that afternoon, and he was asking the trainer if he should be worried about feeling fatigued. This struck me as funny—it would be abnormal to wake up and not feel tired. (They say you are only at a hundred per cent on the first day of spring training. They’re right.) When Rizzo left, I joked with the trainer that Rizzo was being a hypochondriac. That’s when I learned that, in the spring of 2008, Rizzo had been diagnosed with Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and he’d missed the rest of that season to undergo chemotherapy.

Despite missing that year, he still made it to the majors by the age of twenty-one. He has since become an All-Star. I left baseball after the 2012 season, and now I mostly see him on TV. He’s had another great year at the plate, leading the Cubs in home runs, and stealing more bases and scoring more runs than all but one of his teammates. Defensively, he’s been gold, as usual. He’s not just making the routine plays, either: during a game in mid-August, he climbed onto a tarp, snagged a ball headed for the seats, and fell into the crowd. Afterward, the fans around him—including one wearing a Rizzo jersey—patted him on the back. The Cubs won the game in extra innings.

A few weeks ago, I returned to Chicago for the first time since 2012. I visited Rizzo for a few minutes at his apartment, while he ate lunch with his parents. As I left, he asked if I was going to swing by the clubhouse. “No, thanks,” I said. I couldn’t imagine stepping into that space. Nothing extraordinary happens there, but it’s sacred nonetheless. I’m happy, like that guy in the stands with the Rizzo jersey, to cheer from a distance, and pat him on the back when I get a chance."
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 05, 2015, 05:44:01 pm
As I said, the BP power rankings heavily overrate AL teams.  They're calculated by taking the average of a team's overall record and BP's three versions of adjusted standings.  Then they assume the AL is much more difficult--they add .020 to each AL team's average, and subtract the same from NL teams.  Then they list them in order based on that number.

Still, they're not completely worthless when ranking teams within the NL or AL.  So the most notable part to me is that their adjusted standings have the Cubs as the best team in the NL.

Make them move even by dumping the AL DH.

Or, just add the DH to the NL and stop the silly pitcher hitting policy.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 05, 2015, 05:32:11 pm
Those rankings sure don't appear to pass the smell test.
Make them move even by dumping the AL DH.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 05, 2015, 05:15:19 pm
Those rankings sure don't appear to pass the smell test.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 05, 2015, 03:57:11 pm
Pittsburgh ranked below Cleveland. . . .
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 05, 2015, 03:13:10 pm
The Astros?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 05, 2015, 02:52:41 pm
I'm not a big fan of Baseball Prospectus' attempt at power rankings because they're heavily biased towards American League teams.  That said, the Cubs finish fourth behind the Blue Jays, Astros, and Royals. 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/hitlist/?thisdate=2015-10-04
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 05, 2015, 12:08:35 pm
Cubs 6th in majors in Defensive Runs Saved (click Rdrs).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2015-standard-fielding.shtml
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 05, 2015, 08:00:38 am
I'm still not confident about the playoff game (the Pirates were 53-28 at home!), but I'll be happy no matter how things turn out.  In any season before 2012 ('11? when did they add the second WC?), the Cubs wouldn't be in the post-season at all.

Unless I'm mistaken the Cubs were 6-4 against the Pirates in Pittsburgh this year.  And I'm pretty sure Arrieta was not the pitcher in all 6 of those victories.  Could go either way of course, but I kinda like the Cubs' chances. Fingers are crossed.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 05, 2015, 07:32:29 am
80 sporadic (at best) AB's...means little...

It does mean Baez has been able to make adjustments leading to a serious reduction in his K's, and that he is open to making adjustments in his approach at the plate.

To me that is huge.  It does not mean he will ever end up displaying the 30+ HR a year power we had hoped from him, but it does indicate he is likely going to be able to meaningfully contribute at the major league level.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on October 05, 2015, 04:25:31 am
Just noticed: the Cubs could have won 12 fewer games (85-77) and still have gotten the second wild card spot.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on October 05, 2015, 02:12:29 am
Cubs finish 46-19 since that Cole Hamels no-hitter in Phillies sweep.

Recall mood here was low after that game. Go figure.

Yeah, I thought that would be the game that cemented 2015 as a slightly-over-.500, optimistic year in which we would see lots of good things from the Cubs but know that we weren't quite there yet.

Amazing how they turned that right around, pitching a no-hitter of their own, even.

I'm still not confident about the playoff game (the Pirates were 53-28 at home!), but I'll be happy no matter how things turn out.  In any season before 2012 ('11? when did they add the second WC?), the Cubs wouldn't be in the post-season at all.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 11:33:53 pm
Cubs finish 46-19 since that Cole Hamels no-hitter in Phillies sweep.

Recall mood here was low after that game. Go figure.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 11:28:36 pm
Yeah, feel better about Baez than end of 2014.

Has to put 1+ 1 together offensively. Think he will.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 04, 2015, 11:21:34 pm
80 sporadic (at best) AB's...means little...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 04, 2015, 11:11:21 pm
I mean it is 80 PA. I don't think you can draw anything from it except that he cut down on his swing and miss.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 10:05:11 pm
Baez went 0-1 today. Finishes at .733 OPS, not .742.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 04, 2015, 10:03:22 pm
Baez had a solid OPS despite the unfavorable K/HR/BB peripherals because he sported a .411 BABIP. 

He'll obviously need to add HR's to approach this kind of OPS in future. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 04, 2015, 08:49:21 pm
In 1908 they had a player named Overall.  This year they have a player who owned a pair of overalls.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 04, 2015, 08:49:06 pm
I wish we played tomorrow.   A 3 day wait is a lot of time to think especially young guys.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 04, 2015, 08:47:04 pm
In 1908 they had a third baseman named Heinie.  This year they have a third baseman who HAS a Heinie.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 04, 2015, 08:46:05 pm
Also they are playing against Pittsburgh, and in 1908 they also played against Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 04, 2015, 08:30:34 pm
The game is also on 10/7 and it has been 107 years since the Cubs won the World Series. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 04, 2015, 08:27:58 pm
Would've been hard to match a .550 OPS. Yes, he improved his BA, but it was an empty .740 OPS. Maybe we're talking baby steps here, but 1 homer, 4 RBI, and 3 unintentional walks in 80 PA's doesn't inspire confidence in me. Perhaps I'm the only one.

It certainly doesn't inspire confidence in me.

But it does inspire a lot of reasonable hope.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 04, 2015, 08:20:47 pm
Somebody pointed out on Twitter that the wild card game is scheduled to start at 7:08 or in military time 19:08.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 04, 2015, 08:04:19 pm
Or maybe it is 80 PA and it is too small of a sample size?  His ISO was .120, or roughly Kolren Wang's ISO (.125).  Last year his ISO was .155 with the Cubs.



Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 04, 2015, 07:15:00 pm
Would've been hard to match a .550 OPS. Yes, he improved his BA, but it was an empty .740 OPS. Maybe we're talking baby steps here, but 1 homer, 4 RBI, and 3 unintentional walks in 80 PA's doesn't inspire confidence in me. Perhaps I'm the only one.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 04, 2015, 06:51:58 pm
Well, he's also improved his BA, OBP, SLG and OPS.  Don't those count?

To those looking at it rationally, yes, but fans have a habit of suspending rational thought.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 04, 2015, 06:42:52 pm

The number of at-bats isn't important. The point was to show pace. His stats aren't any more flattering if you extrapolate to 300 or 400 AB's.

I like his defense a lot, but there's been an assertion of improvement of his offense and I don't really see it w/ the slight exception of strikeouts.

Well, he's also improved his BA, OBP, SLG and OPS.  Don't those count?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 04, 2015, 06:39:02 pm
Most places a .741 OPS is an improvement over a .551 OPS.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 04, 2015, 06:26:12 pm
No Cub had 600 AB this season. Fowler came close, but he is the only one.  Anything's possible, so maybe Baez would end up with 190 Ks and only 8 HRs for a full season, but I doubt anyone else thinks that is going to happen.  His strikeout rate is high at 29% but it's not outrageous like it was last season. I'll be shocked if power is a problem with Baez over time.

I suppose that the sky-high expectations of Baez, with such a singular focus on his gargantuan HRs, has caused some to be dismissive of his potential contribution to the Cubs, especially in comparison to Kris Bryant.  But I'm pretty encouraged by what I've seen this season.  Excellent defensive middle infielders don't grow on trees, especially ones who can hit.  Seems to me that he's shown more potential for being able to hit major league pitching over time this season than last season.  He's still only 22 years old and having shown a willingness and ability to make adjustments at the plate, I'm hopeful he can be a good, maybe really good all-around major league player.


The number of at-bats isn't important. The point was to show pace. His stats aren't any more flattering if you extrapolate to 300 or 400 AB's.

I like his defense a lot, but there's been an assertion of improvement of his offense and I don't really see it w/ the slight exception of strikeouts.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 04, 2015, 06:01:04 pm
Baez ends up with a 600 AB pace for 8 homers, 32 RBI, 32 walks, and 190 K.

And that represents a substantial improvement in his K rate.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 04, 2015, 05:56:28 pm
By the way, if one really wishes to project Baez' results in his brief time up with the Cubs this season, his .742 OPS would place him 5th among NL second basemen, ahead of Brandon Phillips, or 3rd among NL short stops. 

Strikeouts are important, as are HRs, but they are not everything. Baez is an all-around player with what seems to be very good baseball intelligence and instincts.  And seems likely that his offensive production is likely to improve given his willingness and apparent ability to make adjustments.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 04, 2015, 05:46:51 pm
Baez ends up with a 600 AB pace for 8 homers, 32 RBI, 32 walks, and 190 K.

No Cub had 600 AB this season. Fowler came close, but he is the only one.  Anything's possible, so maybe Baez would end up with 190 Ks and only 8 HRs for a full season, but I doubt anyone else thinks that is going to happen.  His strikeout rate is high at 29% but it's not outrageous like it was last season. I'll be shocked if power is a problem with Baez over time.

I suppose that the sky-high expectations of Baez, with such a singular focus on his gargantuan HRs, has caused some to be dismissive of his potential contribution to the Cubs, especially in comparison to Kris Bryant.  But I'm pretty encouraged by what I've seen this season.  Excellent defensive middle infielders don't grow on trees, especially ones who can hit.  Seems to me that he's shown more potential for being able to hit major league pitching over time this season than last season.  He's still only 22 years old and having shown a willingness and ability to make adjustments at the plate, I'm hopeful he can be a good, maybe really good all-around major league player. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 04, 2015, 05:30:28 pm
Russell's season was more up-and-down than it might have seemed, but he did OPS a hundred points better post AS break. He has to substantially cut down on the Ks as well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 05:19:25 pm
Baez  .733 OPS.

Russell .696 OPS
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 04, 2015, 05:00:12 pm
Not so good.

Javy with no power is not a positive thing.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 04, 2015, 04:56:40 pm
Baez ends up with a 600 AB pace for 8 homers, 32 RBI, 32 walks, and 190 K.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 04, 2015, 04:16:09 pm
Thanks for the correction.  Still pretty good.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 03:30:03 pm
Q
..l It has already been noted that the Cubs pitchers have set a major league record for strikeouts...

No. Not major league record. NL record.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 04, 2015, 02:42:31 pm
This has been a pretty satisfying season so far, on a number of fronts.

"Pretty satisfying" would seem to be a considerable understatement.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 04, 2015, 02:38:09 pm
Cubs are a couple of walks behind the Blue Jays for the most BB (the good kind) in the major leagues.  Cubs haven't had the most in the majors since around 1920.  It has already been noted that the Cubs pitchers have set a major league record for strikeouts. Then there are the Bryant and Arrieta milestones.  Lot of historic stuff going on this season.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 04, 2015, 02:21:39 pm
From Muskrat, Kris Bryant leads all rookies in HR, RBI, runs scored, and 2B.  Only other rookie to do that is Ted Williams.

Wow.

Did Williams also lead the league in K's?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 04, 2015, 12:22:01 pm
The weather forecast for Wednesday is fairly similar for Pittsburgh and Chicago- highs around 70.  Pittsburgh is predicted to be a bit cooler at night- close to 50 vs. the high 50s in Chicago.  Rain is not currently a factor.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 04, 2015, 10:24:23 am
Question: Hendricks has had two good outings, Haren one, and Hammel one since we clinched a playoff spot.  Has something clicked or is it because the pressure is off?

I'm not sure I'd necessarily classify Hammel's last outing as that good--he had runners on all over the place and was close to 90 pitches through 5 innings when he was pulled.  It was as much luck/being up against the Reds as it was good.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 04, 2015, 10:02:11 am
From Muskrat, Kris Bryant leads all rookies in HR, RBI, runs scored, and 2B.  Only other rookie to do that is Ted Williams.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 04, 2015, 10:00:12 am
Hendricks and Hammel are both have talent, but are inherently inconsistent at this point in their careers.  I think they just happen to be on good streaks.  It may be the lack of pressure, but it also may just be the result of small sample size.  I would guess the latter. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 04, 2015, 08:58:44 am
Question: Hendricks has had two good outings, Haren one, and Hammel one since we clinched a playoff spot.  Has something clicked or is it because the pressure is off?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 04, 2015, 08:51:29 am
This has been a pretty satisfying season so far, on a number of fronts.  Now, one more game and on to what we all hope will be a pretty satisfying post-season.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 04, 2015, 03:55:49 am
Cubs pitchers have set a new single-season NL strikeout record--breaking former record held by 2003 Cubs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 04, 2015, 12:17:33 am
The Cubs have clinched having no worse than the third best record in all of MLB.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 03, 2015, 10:33:34 pm
Nice piece on Arrieta by Jerry Crasnick.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13785255/jake-arrieta-chicago-cubs-all-perseverance-determination

With his breakout performance in 2015, Arrieta joins a proud tradition of hard-throwing Texas right-handers who've made hay in the big leagues. Nolan Ryan passed the torch to Roger Clemens, who gave way to Josh Beckett, who preceded Arrieta, Corey Kluber, Homer Bailey and many others who grew up wanting to be Ryan and Clemens.

And no mention of Kerry Wood?

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 03, 2015, 10:27:45 pm
Quote
Coghlan with three hits out of three ABs so far tonight: 3B

Yeah, and I loved the hustle triple.  Making a good case to start on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 08:41:56 pm
It was 13 pitchers most of the season.  But he went to 14 pitchers a few different times (although it was only for 3-4 days at a time).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on October 03, 2015, 08:40:20 pm
We had 14 pitchers and only 11 position players?  I hadn't even noticed; I thought 13 pitchers was the upper limit of today's huge bullpens and short benches.

Well, I guess I'll just trust Joe here. ^_^;
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 08:33:33 pm
I don't disagree that an extra position player would be more valuable.

But Maddon does seem to disagree.  The Cubs had an 8 man bullpen most of the year even though the 8th man rarely pitched.  I think they probably had a 9 man bullpen more days than a 7 man bullpen this season.  Maddon likes to have a lot of pitchers.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on October 03, 2015, 08:31:26 pm
The rosters can be switched between each series, right?  For a single game, I'd take only nine pitchers.  Lots of depth on the bench is more valuable than a tenth pitcher who will almost certainly not appear in the game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 03, 2015, 08:29:28 pm
Oops, missed Berry there.  I'm thinking they'll bring either Sczur or go with the 10th pitcher then.  I guess the only other option is Herrera but with I think there are enough SS on the team. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 03, 2015, 08:27:19 pm
I think it'll be a reliever. That roster is a pitcher or two short of where the Cubs' bullpen has been all year (not counting Lester), and he already has 2 extra guys on the bench.  It'll be Hunter or Edwards.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 03, 2015, 08:19:26 pm
Berry's already one of the 24.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 03, 2015, 08:17:26 pm
I think Berry will be the guy.  In a one game playoff, he may make the difference if we need to get a steal to win the game. 

If they go with 10 pitchers, it will probably be Hunter.  I wonder if they'll take Edwards instead to let him experience the game even if he will never get on the mound. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 03, 2015, 08:12:09 pm
Who's the 25th man for the Wild Card Game?

Coghlan
Fowler
Soler
Bryant
Russell
Castro
Rizzo
Montero
Schwarber
Jackson
Denorfia
Berry
Baez
LaStella
Ross
Arrieta
Lester
Wood
Richard
Rodney
Cahill
Grimm
Strop
Rondon
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 03, 2015, 07:48:06 pm
Coghlan is in a hitting slump.  La Stella is red hot.  My guess is that the lineup from last night's game is the one we'll see against Cole, at least to start. 

Coghlan with three hits out of three ABs so far tonight: 3B, 2B, 1B.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 03, 2015, 06:21:46 pm
He has been better with the Cubs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Cubsin on October 03, 2015, 05:42:33 pm
Jake Arrieta with Baltimore: 20-25, 5.46.

Jake Arrieta with the Cubs: 36-13, 2.26.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 03, 2015, 04:19:47 pm
Coghlan is in a hitting slump.  La Stella is red hot.  My guess is that the lineup from last night's game is the one we'll see against Cole, at least to start. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 03, 2015, 04:11:33 pm
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/13794799/steve-bartman-fund-designed-get-chicago-cubs-playoff-game-falls-short

What's the deal on this?  Did they want to sacrifice a virgin or something?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 03, 2015, 03:48:05 pm
I didn't try to list all the possibilities.  Personally, I would like to see the following lineup.

LF Schwarber
CF Bryant
1B Rizzo
RF Soler
C   Montero
3B Baez
2B Castro
SS Russell
P   Arrieta

But I suspect that Bryant will be at third, Fowler in center and probably Coghlan in right.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 03, 2015, 03:25:40 pm
Coghlan has had a decent year.  Certainly not a great year.  I would expect him to start in the outfield against Cole, but only because he is probably the best choice, not because he "has earned it".

Rizzo should start because he is hands down the best choice.

Bryant should start because he is hands down the best choice.

Russell should start because he is the best choice.

Montero and Fowler should probably start because they are the best choices.

You can even make the case that Castro is quite a bit better than the alternatives, although I can see LaStella starting against the right hander.

But if it comes down to "Coghlan or Schwarber", or "Coghlan or Soler", I don't think he is the clear cut choice.

What.... Baez doesn't even consider in the equation?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 03, 2015, 02:19:41 pm
Coghlan has had a decent year.  Certainly not a great year.  I would expect him to start in the outfield against Cole, but only because he is probably the best choice, not because he "has earned it".

Rizzo should start because he is hands down the best choice.

Bryant should start because he is hands down the best choice.

Russell should start because he is the best choice.

Montero and Fowler should probably start because they are the best choices.

You can even make the case that Castro is quite a bit better than the alternatives, although I can see LaStella starting against the right hander.

But if it comes down to "Coghlan or Schwarber", or "Coghlan or Soler", I don't think he is the clear cut choice.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 03, 2015, 12:21:07 pm
Coghlan on his reduced playing time:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/13796030/chris-coghlan-chicago-cubs-benching-reasons

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 03, 2015, 10:34:40 am
YES...JIMMER
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 03, 2015, 08:34:55 am
A Jimmer sighting! 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jimmer on October 03, 2015, 08:32:55 am
The Wild Card game seemed like a good idea when you are watching other teams playing it...not sure anymore....
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on October 03, 2015, 07:14:15 am
Reb, thanks for the link to the Arrieta article...a fun read.  "Cubs let Jake be Jake."  Sounds simple, but it's often counterintuitive for otherwise successful coaches and managers.

It would be nice to see Rizzo and Bryant each collect the 100th rbi in next couple games.  Great individual AND team play...what a terrific season this has been!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on October 03, 2015, 02:09:48 am
It's pretty crappy that the Cubs wouldn't get home field advantage in the NLCS even though they would have the better record.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 02, 2015, 10:44:55 pm
Cubs are 44-19 since being no-hit by Hammels. That's a 113-win pace.

Even more amazing considering the games they pretty much gave away against St. Louis and Philly.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 10:25:06 pm
I saw that.  Are they all based in LA?  I'm probably biased toward Arrieta, but I would still take Kershaw over Greinke. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on October 02, 2015, 10:18:52 pm
All three Yahoo writers would vote Greinke for CY. Unfortunately, I think that's how it's likely to play out.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/10-degrees--it-s-season-awards-time-165952170.html
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 08:39:30 pm
Nice piece on Arrieta by Jerry Crasnick.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13785255/jake-arrieta-chicago-cubs-all-perseverance-determination
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 02, 2015, 07:32:05 pm
But there's a reason we almost never see this and, when we do, it's driven by extraordinary circumstances.

Yes, the reason is that it is very unusual to have  situation present itself where a player such as Foster is such a good bat another established player will be forced out of his position as Rose was, or where a team such as the Cubs have two players at the same time who could play the same position well, and don't really have another position where they could go and play well there.

Most middle infielders don't even have the bat to be acceptable starting OFers.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 02, 2015, 06:19:39 pm
Biggio was minus 39 Runs Saved 2005-2006-2007 when he returned to 2B. He was bad defensively there, but was an institution in Houston and, of course, a future HOFer. Lost his 2B skills, not surprisingly considering his age. Biggio is one of my all time favorite opposing players but he is yet another bad example and proves the opposite of your point.

It would only prove the opposite of his point if your defensive metrics were a meaningful reflection of defensive performance AND if they reflected a loss of skills as a result of playing the OF and not as a result of age-related decline.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 02, 2015, 03:53:45 pm
One of the realities of position changes is that they are often accompanies by body changes, intentional or unintentional.  Luis Montanez, one of Hendry's worst draft picks, didn't play SS well and couldn't hit.  After getting move to OF, he said he had to work so hard to stay slender enough to compete at SS that he couldn't add much muscle/size.  When he finally moved to OF, he added weight and become at least a double-figures HR guy.  Once a guy adds the weight, I suppose they can take it back off, but it's not always easy, and often impossible. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ray on October 02, 2015, 03:47:31 pm
Biggio was minus 39 Runs Saved 2005-2006-2007 when he returned to 2B. He was bad defensively there, but was an institution in Houston and, of course, a future HOFer. Lost his 2B skills, not surprisingly considering his age. Biggio is one of my all time favorite opposing players but he is yet another bad example and proves the opposite of your point.

Is that it? You keep saying anybody can do this and you have 115 years of baseball history to work with.

Moving there from catcher and being good doesn't count?  I think his defensive decline at that point had more to do with age. You think otherwise even though he had done it before?

Edit...notice you do mention age.  I consider it all age related decline, otherwise, how could he have moved there in first place from catcher.  if he can move there from catcher with good defense, he can from outfield if hadn't been near retirement age.

it actually seems like most of these guys being mentioned having lost certain position skills are pretty old.  and defense generally ages pretty quickly.  Why i think bryant might be ok as long as he is still in his 20's.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 03:04:26 pm
Let's just end this. Dave has his point of view and don't think discussion is progressing in a useful manner.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on October 02, 2015, 02:50:36 pm
Dave is a very smart guy and knows quite a lot about baseball, so I find myself rather stunned by his position on this.

Reb is right.  Dave is wrong.

That said, yes, as an example, Kris Bryant could probably play OF for five years and move back to 3B afterward to play what would likely be very bad defense by major league standards.  Would two out of every ten chances result in an error?  Probably not - as Curt said, he's a major league baseball player and a fine athlete.  But there's a reason we almost never see this and, when we do, it's driven by extraordinary circumstances.

If Dave's position is limited to what I describe above, fine.  If, for example, he thinks that Addison Russell could play first base for five years and then move back to shortstop and once again become a top-flight defender, sorry but there's not much evidence to defend such a contention.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 02:45:45 pm
It isn't fair to ask for examples that support your position? 

That is a rudimentary and simple form of analysis.

Since you are now resorting to expletives, let us stop. (Cheers).

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 02, 2015, 02:38:18 pm
It amazes me that anyone continues to discuss these things with you.  Facts have no effect.  Logic has no effect.  You merely throw as much shit as possible against the wall just to see if any of it sticks.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 02:31:04 pm
1. Craig Biggio played second base for eleven years (1992 through 2002), played the outfield 2003 and 2004 (exactly a couple of years, since that seems to be important to you for some reason), came back to play second base in 2005 through 2007..

You failed to understand the sarcasm I used about Rose's defense, so I won't use any here.  Biggio was a good defensive second baseman earlier in his career, and came back to be a good second baseman after a couple of years in the outfield, in spite of your silly contentions.  But of course, Bryant couldn't, because you say so.

Biggio was minus 39 Runs Saved 2005-2006-2007 when he returned to 2B. He was bad defensively there, but was an institution in Houston and, of course, a future HOFer. Lost his 2B skills, not surprisingly considering his age. Biggio is one of my all time favorite opposing players but he is yet another bad example and proves the opposite of your point.

Is that it? You keep saying anybody can do this and you have 115 years of baseball history to work with.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 02, 2015, 02:09:12 pm
Dave-I'll ask you again. You ignored the question that tests your argument. You say nobody could lose skills after being moved off a more difficult position to a less demanding position for a couple years and that returning to that position as a regular and playing well there is no problem.

So, with 115 years of baseball history since 1900, give me 5 or 6 examples. First you said Rose was good at 3B; now you concede maybe he wasn't. If anybody can do it, give me the examples. Simple question. You have from 1900 to 2015. Better if we leave out outlier Hall of Famers but that's a start. Waiting.

I have been painfully reading thru this thread, and I don't recall davep ever writing that Rose was good at 3B.  Rose played it tolerably and the move there helped his team.  That is rather different from saying he played it well.  Rose never really played ANY position particularly well, and at 2B and 3B was never much more than tolerable with the glove.  I don't recall davep, or anyone else, ever writing anything different.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 02, 2015, 02:04:58 pm
1. Craig Biggio played second base for eleven years (1992 through 2002), played the outfield 2003 and 2004 (exactly a couple of years, since that seems to be important to you for some reason), came back to play second base in 2005 through 2007..

You failed to understand the sarcasm I used about Rose's defense, so I won't use any here.  Biggio was a good defensive second baseman earlier in his career, and came back to be a good second baseman after a couple of years in the outfield, in spite of your silly contentions.  But of course, Bryant couldn't, because you say so.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 02, 2015, 02:02:00 pm
Myths? Players have been moving around on the diamond since 1875. When did anybody say that can't be done?


I think the "when" would be when you put up about a kazillion prior posts to that effect, though you could probably argue that you aren't really "anybody."
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on October 02, 2015, 02:00:18 pm
The Cubs magic number for clinching the third best MLB record is two.

94-65   Cubs
92-67   Bluejays finish the season at Tampa Bay   
92-67   Royals visit Minnesota
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 01:51:28 pm
Coghlan has been a key cogh in the wheel all season.  I think I'd go with him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 02, 2015, 01:49:06 pm

1.  His bad year means he'll be really signable for relatively cheap?  Bargain opportunity?


If they can't get him relatively cheaply (say 3 years, 15 per year, perhaps with options), I hope they don't try to sign him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 02, 2015, 01:46:00 pm
Quote
But, if you installed Mike Olt as your full time 3B and Bryant as full time LFer for couple of years

No one ever said that was a good idea.  Harping on that is tired.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 02, 2015, 01:42:28 pm
Quote
I suggest:  Fowler, Coghlan, Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, Castro, Montero, Arrieta, Russell.

My only hesitation is that Coghlan is ice cold over the last two weeks:  .074   .257   .111 over 35 plate appearances.  We might get a Joe Maddon Special lineup.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 01:42:07 pm
There are a number of myths in baseball, many of them to make the game more mystical and entertaining.  Did Jim Edmonds have to dive on all those baseballs hit his direction, probably not, but it looked cool and sold tickets. 

Growing up, it was always a big topic of conversation when a player changed position...oh, no, it will never work!  He's a shortstop, no way he can play centerfield!  But Robin Yount is in the HOF.  I remember a lot of angst at all the moves that Pete Rose made...successfully.   The myth is  that players are best at one position and that moving them is dangerous, because, well, he's an expert at third base but knows nothing about left field!  People forget that these guys, for the most part, have been playing other positions in practice, since Little League, in high school and college, etc.   Joe Madden is the anti-Reb.  He's moved Coughlan from left to right to second to first.  Bryant has played all over.  Maddon knows that somewhere, sometime, Herrera has played every position on the diamond.   Everyone thought he was a genius for how he used Zobrist and others in Tampa.  Actually, he just spit in the face of myth and tradition.  It wasn't genius, it was distain.  These are athletes; some are locked into a position because they excel at it or because of lefthandedness, but they can all move.  Successfully.

Myths? Players have been moving around on the diamond since 1875. When did anybody say that can't be done?

Yount moved from SS to CF.  That's precisely, exactly, consistent with the defensive spectrum. Bryant, as a rookie, is certainly capable of moving around in the same season. Herrera, a utility guy, is used as a utility guy. Wholly unremarkable.

What you see rarely is players moving backwards on the spectrum as regulars after playing lesser positions for years. Coghlan playing 2B for a few games (and getting pulled defensively in 6th inning) was unorthodox but fleeting. Where is he playing now? One corner to another corner: RF or LF or 1B. Is Coghlan a 2B regular? No. Zobrist moves around in same season, a super utility guy. These kind of guys were very common in early days of baseball. Wholly unremarkable in big picture.

I'm talking about something else. If Schwarber is playing LF as a regular in 2016 and 2017 and not catching for two years, he isn't going to pick up where he left off as a catcher and move back there in 2018. If Bryant is an outfielder full-time in 2016 and 2017, highly unlikely you'd see him as a 3B regular in 2018. If Bryant is moved around simultaneously like Zobrist in same season, sure he could do that for some time. Different situation.

But, if you installed Mike Olt as your full time 3B and Bryant as full time LFer for couple of years, highly unlikely you'd ever see Bryant as a 3B regular again. Give me a bunch of examples that prove otherwise. And, let's keep the HOFers to a minimum.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: jacey1 on October 02, 2015, 01:36:16 pm
From Heyman

Could the Cubs revisit Jeff Samardzija in the winter? David Price is expected to be their top pitching target due partly to the obvious Joe Maddon/Rays connection, but could Samardzija be a fallback guy? They offered him in the "low $80s (millions)," a few years back, and made multiple offers (though they included option years), that deal still looks reasonable considering his surprising struggles this year. Plus, he pitched best for them.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25324936/inside-baseball-nationals-to-let-williams-go-and-more-mlb-moves
I predict Shark signs with the NYYankees and proceeds to suck in 2016 and then get into some type of controversy during the summer and the fans there will hate him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 02, 2015, 01:16:54 pm
Thoughts about the preferred lineup for Wednesday?

I suggest:  Fowler, Coghlan, Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, Castro, Montero, Arrieta, Russell.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 02, 2015, 01:11:56 pm
Dave-I'll ask you again. You ignored the question that tests your argument. You say nobody could lose skills after being moved off a more difficult position to a less demanding position for a couple years and that returning to that position as a regular and playing well there is no problem.

So, with 115 years of baseball history since 1900, give me 5 or 6 examples. First you said Rose was good at 3B; now you concede maybe he wasn't. If anybody can do it, give me the examples. Simple question. You have from 1900 to 2015. Better if we leave out outlier Hall of Famers but that's a start. Waiting.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 02, 2015, 12:40:19 pm
Samardz is certainly the devil they know, so presumably they will act accordingly.  I think I'd stay away from the guy, but if they sign him, I'll take that as a good sign.  Would much rather have Price. . . .
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 12:38:02 pm
Milton Bradley, Ian Stewart, Jeff Smarjachoke...I'll take Edwin Jackson back, please.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 12:34:17 pm
Smarj is the anti-Christ!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 02, 2015, 12:27:40 pm
I assume Sox will offer samardz arb, and he'll be a comp-pick sacrifice guy? 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 02, 2015, 12:25:42 pm
...Could the Cubs revisit Jeff Samardzija in the winter? .... could Samardzija be a fallback guy? They offered him in the "low $80s (millions)," a few years back, and made multiple offers (though they included option years), that deal still looks reasonable considering his surprising struggles this year. Plus, he pitched best for them.....

It's an interesting concept.  As much as Curt dislikes the guy, the Cubs have had him for years.  They should know how good/bad his chemistry and personal qualities are.  Maybe Heyman is nuts, and the Cubs totally know that Samardz would be an awful disruption to a beautiful clubhouse environment.  So, perhaps they'll be the last team interested because they know him best.  But, that they offered him extensions into his trade season would suggest they don't think he's prohibitively bad, Milton Bradley bad or anything like that.  Of course, they might be foolishly misremembering and misperceiving him as the good pitcher that they created, rather than the recent always-been-a-gopher-boy but now oh-so-hittable bad pitcher he's been this year. 

Favorable opportunity possibilities:
1.  His bad year means he'll be really signable for relatively cheap?  Bargain opportunity?
2.  He kept whining about how much he wanted to be on a winner and the Cubs weren't good enough for him.  If that's real, might he be pretty interested in the current Cubs?
3.  He never wanted long-term security; had the arrogance to think he could earn ace-money.  Perhaps he'd sign for a short deal to get another big-contract shot? 
4.  Bosio might think he knows what's wrong, mechanically or strategically, and that he could fix him back into a decent #3 starter? 

I guess if you thought you could get 2011-2014-vintage Samardzija, but on a modest contract, he might have better bargain-potential than some of the other FA pitchers.  If his clubhouse personality wasn't perceived as prohibitively bad. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 12:12:07 pm
Oh no!  et tu, Dusti?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on October 02, 2015, 11:33:21 am
No Curt.

Not too much.

I never liked him even when he was a scrub in AA but for the right price he could be our #3 starter.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 02, 2015, 11:26:05 am
Easy to have missed Bryant in CF. He has grand total of three chances out there.

CF is more valuable on defensive spectrum than 3B. But, hard to believe that, even if moved to CF as a regular, Bryant would play there very long. Would lose 3B skills in year or two and end up as corner OFer too soon and doubt Cubs want that given how solid he is playing at 3B. Think long-term.

Baez is very good at 3B. No surprise there considering he is a very good SS and a very good 2B. Baez is an up-the-middle player so should be very good at 3B. Same would be true for vast majority of all top middle IFers in game. Yes, it's enticing if see them there but doesn't follow that smart to move them there permanently.

When the 2016 season is completed, Baez is likely to have more innings played in CF there for the season than Bryant has.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 11:14:57 am
From Heyman

Could the Cubs revisit Jeff Samardzija in the winter? David Price is expected to be their top pitching target due partly to the obvious Joe Maddon/Rays connection, but could Samardzija be a fallback guy? They offered him in the "low $80s (millions)," a few years back, and made multiple offers (though they included option years), that deal still looks reasonable considering his surprising struggles this year. Plus, he pitched best for them.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25324936/inside-baseball-nationals-to-let-williams-go-and-more-mlb-moves
Oh, good Goc.

Dusty, do I have too much hate for Smarj.  Chime in.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 02, 2015, 11:08:56 am
Regarding some of Craig's thoughts above.

Cahill looking very good as a reliever. But, look at his recent contracts (as a starter). He won't get anything close to that but hard to believe he will be content as a middle reliever going forward. Think very likely will sign with club giving him clear rotation opportunity.

I don't know.... don't you think he will have lost all of his starting skills?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 02, 2015, 11:00:59 am
From Heyman

Could the Cubs revisit Jeff Samardzija in the winter? David Price is expected to be their top pitching target due partly to the obvious Joe Maddon/Rays connection, but could Samardzija be a fallback guy? They offered him in the "low $80s (millions)," a few years back, and made multiple offers (though they included option years), that deal still looks reasonable considering his surprising struggles this year. Plus, he pitched best for them.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25324936/inside-baseball-nationals-to-let-williams-go-and-more-mlb-moves
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on October 02, 2015, 10:30:59 am
There are a number of myths in baseball, many of them to make the game more mystical and entertaining.  Did Jim Edmonds have to dive on all those baseballs hit his direction, probably not, but it looked cool and sold tickets. 

Growing up, it was always a big topic of conversation when a player changed position...oh, no, it will never work!  He's a shortstop, no way he can play centerfield!  But Robin Yount is in the HOF.  I remember a lot of angst at all the moves that Pete Rose made...successfully.   The myth is  that players are best at one position and that moving them is dangerous, because, well, he's an expert at third base but knows nothing about left field!  People forget that these guys, for the most part, have been playing other positions in practice, since Little League, in high school and college, etc.   Joe Madden is the anti-Reb.  He's moved Coughlan from left to right to second to first.  Bryant has played all over.  Maddon knows that somewhere, sometime, Herrera has played every position on the diamond.   Everyone thought he was a genius for how he used Zobrist and others in Tampa.  Actually, he just spit in the face of myth and tradition.  It wasn't genius, it was distain.  These are athletes; some are locked into a position because they excel at it or because of lefthandedness, but they can all move.  Successfully.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 02, 2015, 10:16:22 am
Wow.  If I said 6 years, and it was actually 7 years in the outfield, then obviously that disproves everything I said, and it is now obvious that 23 year old infielders lose their ability to play the infield after two years in the outfield.

Sarcasm aside, I doubt that you would find any baseball person that would accept that a 23 year old would lose his skills for a particular position due to playing the outfield for 2 years.  Of course, you are more intent on defending the indefensible than in conducting a rational discussion.

Rose was never a good infielder.  But after playing the outfield for SEVEN years, he was able to fill a team need and return to the infield while in his thirties.  He didn't do it well, but doing it helped the team and he was able to accomplish it in an acceptable manor.

And in the interest of accuracy, I never said that Rose only played the outfield for only a couple of years.  I specifically said that he played there 6 years.  I was merely pointing out that YOU said that a player would lose his skills after a couple of years, and gave an example of someone that surpassed that time.  Unless you somehow believe that a player would lose his skills after two years, but get them back after seven years, your argument is deteriorating quickly.

And it is you that is misstating Epsteins position.  What sense is there to draft a player because he can play other positions if you never intend for him to play other positions even if it would improve the team?  That is as silly as saying that you would deliberately degrade the defensive ability of your team because somehow you lose hypothetical value of one single player.  You say this even in the face of evidence to the contrary.  Do you actually believe that the Cubs will keep Castro on the bench because Russell is playing shortstop.  They moved him to a less valued position because he is better there than the other options.  And he will continue to play there until his hitting declines or until he is traded.  No GM or manager would cut off his nose to cut his face, as you seem to advocate.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 02, 2015, 08:29:08 am
Quote
Why not pay Fowler fair-market price?

For me the reason is it would eliminate Price. The difference between Price and the next tier of starter is greater than the difference between Fowler and somebody like Jackson or other stop gap..

True.  A lot of stuff that otherwise makes sense won't be possible if Price is signed. 

Which of course will probably be true for 2017, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 2022 as well.  And the value advantage of having Price over others may not remain as great in 2019-2022 as it might seem for 2016. 

I'd love to get Price, though.  2022 can take care of itself.  The present lineup with Arrieta-Price-Lester could win several championships before 2012 ever approached. 

We've got four years before the kids start to get into semi-serious arbitration years.  I can imagine a logic in which Theo would prefer to pursue guys with no more than 4 or 5 years guaranteed, rather than 7-year guys. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 10:29:45 pm
As usual, you ignore the point of the post and argue peripherals.  Rose did NOT lose whatever skills he had as an infielder after playing a couple of years in the outfield.  NO ONE loses their skills at playing infield after a couple of years in the outfield.  To argue that is foolish.  Even if they were a little rusty, it could easily be refreshed in a month of spring training.

You completely ignore Epstein's comments that the good thing about drafting infielders is that they can play anywhere on the field.  What sense would there be in that if you are NEVER going to play them anywhere on the field.

It goes back to the discussion that we has several months ago.  IF the Cubs wanted to play BOTH Olt and Bryant at the same time, and IF one had to be at third base and the other at left field, only an idiot would play Bryant at third and Olt in left field if that would be weaker defensively than the other way around.

Quite simply put, NO infielder in his early 20s is going to lose his infielding skills by playing the outfield for a couple of years.  Barring injury, it just wouldn't happen.  Nor would he lose trade value, since every GM in the country would realize that they could play him in the infield if they acquired him.

First, Rose did not play a "couple years" in the OF before moving to 3B. It was seven years, actually eight as a regular. You  even previously said six years, so you're not even on the same page with yourself.

Second, players actually do lose positional skills when moved off more demanding positions for a significant time. They rarely return to a more demanding position. The best evidence of that is that the only player you cited as a contra example is Pete Rose, which is flat wrong and even Rose will tell you that. Rose played because it was only option and he played poorly and it was Pete Rose.

We discussed this previously, as you note, and someone mentioned Molitor--another HOFer.  You say nobody could lose skills, so give us 5 or 6 examples of guys who went back and played well defensively from less demanding to demanding on the spectrum. Or, went back at all, as a regular. You have  the entire universe from 1900 forward to consider. Better if no HOFers but will take that for now.

Third, You totally garble what Epstein said as relevant here. Yes, you can move players from more-- to less demanding positions on the defensive spectrum. Just talked about Baez as 3B. Of course he will play well there. The issue is whether it's smart to do that full-time, whether it's good value. What would have been monumentally  dumb would have been to short circuit Bryant's development as a 3B and move him to LF in order to accommodate Mike Olt at 3B--which you STILL seem to think would have been fine. That has rendered me speechless. The End.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 01, 2015, 10:07:23 pm
4.  Fowler is an OBP guy at the CF position where we are otherwise most lacking.  Why not pay Fowler fair-market price?  Fowler is an excellent clubhouse guy, he's not old, and he knows he's part of a potentially magic recipe.  The Cubs may not need to outbid the world to retain him; a reasonably fair-market market-competitive offer may well suffice.  If you later on end up with a surplus in CF, you can always play Fowler or Almora in a corner; do the flexibility shuffle; or trade Fowler or Almora for fair value. 

For me the reason is it would eliminate Price. The difference between Price and the next tier of starter is greater than the difference between Fowler and somebody like Jackson or other stop gap..
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on October 01, 2015, 09:31:30 pm
My gosh are some you long winded.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chiman on October 01, 2015, 09:13:59 pm
AZSteve, Are you near Phoenix?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 01, 2015, 09:07:38 pm
I'm really pretty turned off on going after any of the big name starters this offseason except maybe Price. ... I think the bidding war for him is going to go beyond what the Cubs will pay.  I think they'll still be focused on a trade for a cost-controlled younger starter this offseason, even though it's going to cost a ton in a trade.  Hopefully Baez has shown enough in the minors and in September that he can be a key part of a deal.

I also expect a high OBP leadoff type will be added in CF or at 2B.  ....  They'll try on Fowler (but may settle on Span or a trade).  If they get their leadoff type in CF, Kendrick is an option at 2B (his name came up at midseason as a free agent target for the Cubs).  If not, it could be Zobrist. 

Good thoughts, br.  Several thoughts in response:
1.  In general, a trade is an exchange of talent and an exchange of assets, not the creation of new talent/new assets.
2.  When you sign a guy in FA, you are bringing in talent without losing any. 
3.  Given that the Cubs may (theoretically) have a chunk of discretionary cash, I'd like to see them able to parlay that into NEW talent.  If possible, acquiring new talent that doesn't cost any talent has advantage over trading for talent. 
4.  Fowler is an OBP guy at the CF position where we are otherwise most lacking.  Why not pay Fowler fair-market price?  Fowler is an excellent clubhouse guy, he's not old, and he knows he's part of a potentially magic recipe.  The Cubs may not need to outbid the world to retain him; a reasonably fair-market market-competitive offer may well suffice.  If you later on end up with a surplus in CF, you can always play Fowler or Almora in a corner; do the flexibility shuffle; or trade Fowler or Almora for fair value. 
5.  All pitchers have risk.  FA will be risk.  But trade will have risk too.  Including both injury and limited club control.  Of course, due diligence, and evaluate whether dollar-per-value ratio is justifiable. 
6.  Even if kids turn out to be superstars, they won't be budget busters through their first year or two of arb.  So, it's really going to be four years or more until they really start costing a lot. 
7.  If you assign $8-mill per each of the 13 starter spots, that only costs  $104 million to cover the 8 regular starters and 5 rotation spots.  Every "discount" starter frees cash to high-spend at other spots.  With up to six discount starters, the Cubs have freedom to high-spend at a number of the other spots.  Perhaps so much freedom that even if a high-spend risk goes bad, it won't cripple either team or budget.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on October 01, 2015, 09:05:12 pm
Read your own posts.

You really hate the guy, don't you?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 01, 2015, 08:32:20 pm
As usual, you ignore the point of the post and argue peripherals.  Rose did NOT lose whatever skills he had as an infielder after playing a couple of years in the outfield.  NO ONE loses their skills at playing infield after a couple of years in the outfield.  To argue that is foolish.  Even if they were a little rusty, it could easily be refreshed in a month of spring training.

You completely ignore Epstein's comments that the good thing about drafting infielders is that they can play anywhere on the field.  What sense would there be in that if you are NEVER going to play them anywhere on the field.

It goes back to the discussion that we has several months ago.  IF the Cubs wanted to play BOTH Olt and Bryant at the same time, and IF one had to be at third base and the other at left field, only an idiot would play Bryant at third and Olt in left field if that would be weaker defensively than the other way around.

Quite simply put, NO infielder in his early 20s is going to lose his infielding skills by playing the outfield for a couple of years.  Barring injury, it just wouldn't happen.  Nor would he lose trade value, since every GM in the country would realize that they could play him in the infield if they acquired him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 01, 2015, 08:31:20 pm
....I agree that Castro is the easiest to move (with all of that, really), and I expect that that's what will happen, but for me it would come down to what I could get in return.  I'm not going to just give him away, and I don't know that I would head into the offseason trying to trade him.  There were apparently no takers for him at the break, so are teams really going to be clamoring for him now?  Good Castro is a real asset and fun to watch.  If I don't get what I think is good value for him, I'm keeping him.  Joe likes flexibility and is probably the best manager there is at making that kind of situation work....

Well said.  I don't really know how strong the market will be for him.  If you get a really valuable offer, that's real value and fair value, of course.  But will we? 

Part of the challenge is that we have a very limited number of major targets to trade for.  Basically starting pitcher; and if you decide not to keep Fowler CF.  How likely is it that one of the teams that's most interested in Castro will also happen to have a pitcher that's of appropriate value and that is available in exchange?  May be several, and of course we can supplement the deal heavily by including several from Torres/Contreras/Underwood or whatever.  But if the goal is to get a very good rotation pitch, the best we can, does Castro get us pretty deep into acquiring that caliber of guy?  Maybe, with additional talent; but it may be a lot harder to find a real match that in seems in theory. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 07:51:31 pm
Pete Rose is a great example of that.  He started out as a middle infielder, and then moved to the outfield, mostly corner outfield, for 6 years.  Totally lost his third base skills.  He had to fake it for many years after they moved him to third base.  Everyone that saw him there marvelled at how he could play third base after losing all his skills. 

Must have just been faking it.

Dave- Let us take a stab at accuracy. The "everyone" folks who "marvelled at how he could play third base" were either drinking buddies of Rose or folks with a vested interest in keeping Rose happy.

Rose was a very poor defensive 3B when he played there from 1975 to 1978.  Moving him there was a move entirely based on offense.  As one example, just look at Baseball Reference defensive runs saved for that period.  Rose was 33 runs below average cumulatively those four years---one of the worst 3B numbers in the majors at that time. Rose himself acknowledged in retirement that he wasn't the greatest 3B--which for him is saying something.  Best thing he could say was that he worked very hard there, which I'm sure is true.

And, there is the historical context why he was playing 3B in the first place, which is interesting. What happened was that Reds had to figure out a way of getting George Foster's bat in the lineup everyday.  Rose had been in LF--where he belonged. But, Foster was turning into a monster bat and could only play LF. Playing 1B was future Hall-of-Famer Tony Perez.  RF was Griffey. So, the only choices for Reds were either to turn Rose into a part-timer (!!), trade him (!!!), or put him at 3B. That's why Rose played 3B in the first place. It was the ONLY practical option.

So, what you are alleging as everybody thought he was wonderful at 3B is hogwash.  Naturally, Sparky had to pat Rose on the back about how terrific he was playing--this is PETE ROSE we're talking about-- but any objective analyst knew he was poor defensively.  He was a LFer or a 1B de facto at that time of his career. When he finally left Reds, he played 1B in Philly (badly).

Finally, aside from the inaccuracy of your post, it is always interesting that whenever anybody tries to come up with (alleged) examples contrary to defensive spectrum notions, it typically is a Hall of Famer rather than a mere mortal.  By definition, HOFers tend to have very atypical gifts.  They are outliers.  So, even if Rose was a contra example--which he is NOT--it would be the example of an outlier.  Put another way, it just proves the point if only outliers are the (alleged) examples.

In any case, you just gave an example of exactly why the spectrum principles are sound.   
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 01, 2015, 07:27:44 pm
Quote
Schwarber/Bryant/Soler could be HRod/Hill/Sosa bad on defense.

No...no, they could not...

Agree.  Schwarber seems to have really good instincts in left.  Better than Glenallen, anyway.  I think that they would probably be below average defensively but, as Dave suggested, could easily make up for it with their bats.

Quote
But that said, now that he's presumably improved his trade value as well, I do think it's likely he will be traded.
Assuming the Cubs want to upgrade the team through trading, and that Castro is valued by other teams, he seems to me the natural guy to go.  So much of his game just doesn't fit with the profile the Cubs want in their players.  He's really not a very heads up guy, either at the plate or in the field, he does as well as he does because of his natural gifts

I agree that Castro is the easiest to move (with all of that, really), and I expect that that's what will happen, but for me it would come down to what I could get in return.  I'm not going to just give him away, and I don't know that I would head into the offseason trying to trade him.  There were apparently no takers for him at the break, so are teams really going to be clamoring for him now?  Good Castro is a real asset and fun to watch.  If I don't get what I think is good value for him, I'm keeping him.  Joe likes flexibility and is probably the best manager there is at making that kind of situation work.

I'm on the Price bandwagon and hoping there's something to the Price to Cubs/reunite with Joe stuff while acknowledging that there probably isn't.  If he winds up somewhere else, it won't surprise me.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: AZSteve on October 01, 2015, 07:25:19 pm
LMAO!!!!! EPIC!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on October 01, 2015, 05:46:38 pm
Speaking of Schwarber, Bryant, Soler (and the other Cubs "rookies" - well, Baez is not a rookie and he and Soler had to dress up last year too):

(https://bbf.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FlhS8XzE.jpg&hash=0eab8690415efa678f5cb7faf5f366f3290b7334)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 01, 2015, 05:45:20 pm
CF is more valuable on defensive spectrum than 3B. But, hard to believe that, even if moved to CF as a regular, Bryant would play there very long. Would lose 3B skills in year or two and end up as corner OFer too soon and doubt Cubs want that given how solid he is playing at 3B. Think long-term.

Pete Rose is a great example of that.  He started out as a middle infielder, and then moved to the outfield, mostly corner outfield, for 6 years.  Totally lost his third base skills.  He had to fake it for many years after they moved him to third base.  Everyone that saw him there marvelled at how he could play third base after losing all his skills. 

Must have just been faking it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 01, 2015, 05:26:52 pm
Schwarber/Bryant/Soler could be HRod/Hill/Sosa bad on defense.

No...no, they could not...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on October 01, 2015, 05:07:52 pm
I'm really pretty turned off on going after any of the big name starters this offseason except maybe Price.  Zimmermann is having his worst year in five years, and he's getting far enough from TJ surgery that it could become an issue again.  Cueto has been bad since going to the Royals, and there is concern he might be pitching through an injury.  Samardzija has been bad all year.  Greinke has pitched so well this year that his price is going to skyrocket, and there's no way he'll ever live up to it. 

So that just leaves Price.  With the other options looking much less appealing than they did 6 months ago (and with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers all likely to be in the starting pitching market), I think the bidding war for him is going to go beyond what the Cubs will pay.  I think they'll still be focused on a trade for a cost-controlled younger starter this offseason, even though it's going to cost a ton in a trade.  Hopefully Baez has shown enough in the minors and in September that he can be a key part of a deal.

I also expect a high OBP leadoff type will be added in CF or at 2B.  And I think it's more likely than not that both positions will be filled with players currently not contracted by the Cubs for next year.  They'll try on Fowler (but may settle on Span or a trade).  If they get their leadoff type in CF, Kendrick is an option at 2B (his name came up at midseason as a free agent target for the Cubs).  If not, it could be Zobrist. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on October 01, 2015, 05:03:04 pm
I'm thrilled (well, really happy anyway) with the way Castro has been playing for roughly the last month.  He's been a real asset to the team during this period, and the way he's going he could be a real key in the playoffs.

But that said, now that he's presumably improved his trade value as well, I do think it's likely he will be traded.
Assuming the Cubs want to upgrade the team through trading, and that Castro is valued by other teams, he seems to me the natural guy to go.  So much of his game just doesn't fit with the profile the Cubs want in their players.  He's really not a very heads up guy, either at the plate or in the field, he does as well as he does because of his natural gifts. 

Not only do the Cubs have two better middle infielders in Russell and Baez (defensively for sure, and very possibly offensively), they have Gleyber Torres in the pipeline. Yeah, he's only 18, but he is performing well above his age, and he may well be at AA sometime next season if he keeps it up.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 04:45:56 pm
Regarding Wood, think the $6 leverage he has might be conducive to an extension. But, depends on his expectations for future role. Does he want to start? If so, he's not going to take middle relief money and abort his pending free agency by agreeing to middle relief money beyond 2016.

Think he has 2016 value for Cubs and guessing will be tendered. Not a lock by any means.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 01, 2015, 04:28:57 pm
So, here's the plan:
1.  Sign the best single rotation guy you can. 
2.  Resign Cahill and Richard, and retain Wood.
3.  Go hard after one more good relief pitcher X, better than Hunter.  Pen:  Rondon, Strop, X, Grimm, Cahill, Wood, Richard. 
4.  Resign Fowler, 3-years + options. 

1.) YES
2.) Cahill failed twice as starter this year with Braves and Dodgers at AAA (6.28 ERA).  He's done better with the Cubs as a reliever because the fastball velocity plays up.  I think like Wood his days as a starter are done.  Wood will hopefully sign a 2-3 year deal at a lower AAV.  I doubt they will pay him $6 million to be reliever. 
3.) Rodney might be the guy.  Rameriez if healthy is that guy.  Turner could take Cahill's spot as well.
4.) The lowest I've seen on Fowler is 4 years/$60 million.  That might be low, it wouldn't shock me to see 4/$80.  I think the Cubs will be getting their first comp pick.  Schwarber/Bryant/Soler could be HRod/Hill/Sosa bad on defense.  My guess is they look for a 1 year guy and hope Almora is for real.
5.) Trading for a cost controlled power pitcher is a nice thought.  The price is going to be shocking to people. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 04:28:13 pm
Whatever adjustments Castro has made, his swing looks 1000 times better.  Granted, he still has trouble recognizing the slider down and away.  But he's got me trying to decide whether he is permanently fixed offensively or whether this is just a phase where he's seeing a lot of good hitter's pitches.  His low BB rate is not much of a concern when he's batting over .400 as he has over the past month.  But in the long run, it's still an issue.  I think I'm leaning towards using this hot streak as leverage in trading him during the offseason.  Let Baez start at 2B and Bryant at 3B for the most part next season.  La Stella can be the versatile infield sub.

Castro is a mystery. Current thing is not new. Batted .378 last August. Before that, had very poor 2013 season. Bounced back. Bouncing back again now. Can he be poor again? Yes. Will he bounce back again? Yes, probably.

Still 26 for 2016, so likely will be a club out there looking at glass half-full on him. Guessing Theo will take opportunity to move him. Or, maybe Castro will be World Series hero soon and how dare you trade him. Beats me.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 01, 2015, 04:19:59 pm
..Cahill looking very good as a reliever. But, look at his recent contracts (as a starter). He won't get anything close to that but hard to believe he will be content as a middle reliever going forward. Think very likely will sign with club giving him clear rotation opportunity.....

Not sure recent contracts have much relevance.  He signed an extension pre-arb, and his gotten paid accordingly, so as you say he won't get anything close.  Hasn't had a >100 ERA+ since 2012, and only once above ERA+ of 108.  So, not sure how much guaranteed money or FA pursuit he's going to get. 

But as I alluded to and you suggest, you're probably correct that he'd at least like a chance to win back a rotation spot.  If the Cubs sign a Cueto/Zimmerman/Price type guy, he'll not have that chance with Cubs.  Injury or real failure would pretty much be only route to rotation.  Not that those aren't pretty substantial possibilities, but he may want more than that.  He's probably in the kind of landscape that bad-Cubs Theo used to sign guys like Maholm, Feldman, Baker, and Villanueva:  a totally unsettled rotation, a chance to win a job, and if so get traded to a contender and/or get to revisit the market with value rebuilt.  So, probably hard to retain him.  Too bad. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on October 01, 2015, 04:12:12 pm
Whatever adjustments Castro has made, his swing looks 1000 times better.  Granted, he still has trouble recognizing the slider down and away.  But he's got me trying to decide whether he is permanently fixed offensively or whether this is just a phase where he's seeing a lot of good hitter's pitches.  His low BB rate is not much of a concern when he's batting over .400 as he has over the past month.  But in the long run, it's still an issue.  I think I'm leaning towards using this hot streak as leverage in trading him during the offseason.  Let Baez start at 2B and Bryant at 3B for the most part next season.  La Stella can be the versatile infield sub.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 01, 2015, 04:07:09 pm
The WAR explained link is the current one on BR site, as far as I can tell. Cameron didn't say anything that contradicts what is in that link. If it's wrong in interpreting Fangraphs, hope they correct that.

Do you mean "now" instead of "not" in your second sentence above?

Fangraphs changed they way they calculate pitcher WAR and they have not released the new method on fangraphs, other than to say what is currently on their website is not correct.  So the BR graph isn't up to date, because they don't have the info.  Again I wasn't talking about WAR.  The park effects from 15 starts are not going to move the numbers a lot.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 04:02:08 pm
Regarding some of Craig's thoughts above.

Cahill looking very good as a reliever. But, look at his recent contracts (as a starter). He won't get anything close to that but hard to believe he will be content as a middle reliever going forward. Think very likely will sign with club giving him clear rotation opportunity.

Richard different situation, probably. Might well be okay with valued reliever role. Could stay in majors forever in that role.

Guessing Wood will be tendered. High cost for a non-starter, non-closer but think stays.

I won't be shocked if Cubs trade Hendricks as part of deal to get a power pitcher upgrade. Totally get has value in Cubs rotation but that translates to tradable asset too. Agree with Dave that Cubs may well add two starting pitchers. As said before, one in trade and one in FA.

Totally on board with Price in the merits. Just don't see payroll affordability with those kind of long-term dollars. Hope wrong on that. Think Cubs already thinking about Arrieta post-2017.

Guessing another lefty reliever big priority. Will Smith or Jake McGee?

CF will be interesting. You know who I'd like there. Wonder what brass really think of Almora? Second-half a fluke or will they keep CF seat warm for 2017? 

Also there's the Schwarber-as-catcher in 2016. Wonder if this is Keith Moreland redux? Think will continue dabble as catcher in 2016 but better he looks in LF, more likely they just let him hit. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 03:33:34 pm
Liked the play today where GB to Baez at 3B and planned to turn DP...but Phillips was running on pitch to 2B, so Baez adroitly went home for tag play there. Think most guys new to the position might have been confused there but Baez instincts are off the charts.

Will be interesting to see how Theo/Hoyer approach 2016 positions. My feeling still is that Castro will be traded. Think that will help sort out 2016 positions.

Easy to have missed Bryant in CF. He has grand total of three chances out there.

CF is more valuable on defensive spectrum than 3B. But, hard to believe that, even if moved to CF as a regular, Bryant would play there very long. Would lose 3B skills in year or two and end up as corner OFer too soon and doubt Cubs want that given how solid he is playing at 3B. Think long-term.

Baez is very good at 3B. No surprise there considering he is a very good SS and a very good 2B. Baez is an up-the-middle player so should be very good at 3B. Same would be true for vast majority of all top middle IFers in game. Yes, it's enticing if see them there but doesn't follow that smart to move them there permanently.

Not saying Cubs absolutely won't do this but would be unorthodox and unlikely. There is trade value in this situation because opposing clubs crave up-the-middle talent.

Keep in mind that Maddon plays with 4-man bench 85% of season, so versatility is good. You can move good athletes around, as he likes to say.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 01, 2015, 03:32:38 pm
The Bryant to center idea is kind of fun, then all of Fowler/CF money could go into pitching.  One could afford the first several years of Price rather easily if Bryant, Soler, Schwarber, Russell, and Baez are all starting on pre-arb contracts. 

Part of the recipe this year, of course, has been the massive flexibility.  If you let Fowler walk, and move Bryant to center, then Fowler and LaStella would be about the only present flexibility guys on the bench.  Keeping Castro, Fowler, Coghlan, and Baez would ensure enormous flexibility and injury insurance, and relentless daily lineups. 

Not sure how much cash they'll have and what's affordable.  But however they work it within the scope of their budget, it's going to be really interesting.   
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on October 01, 2015, 03:25:22 pm
Feels weird talking about what to do with next year's money when we're heading into the playoffs.  Still, with playoff spot secured and nothing really at stake, it's kind of fun. 

1.  Blue has really focused on Price, who I assume will be way more expensive/long than Theo will end up paying. 
2.  DaveP has suggested that Cubs may prefer to sign two guys instead of one.  Cover two spots, increase the depth, could sign two Hammel-level guys for less than one Price, and certainly could shorten the commitment. 

All depends on the dollars, and the scouting, obviously. 

*IF* it was financially doable, and *IF* the scouting justified, I agree with Blue in preferring to focus on **one** as good-as-you-can-afford better pitcher, rather than splitting it between **two** guys.  If it's Price, great.  If it's not Price, see who the best guy you can afford. 

Counting Hendricks and Hammel, we've already got four guys.  Those two haven't always been great this half.  But I like Hendricks and think he's a good rotation value.  Hammel, he's under contract, he's mostly pitched well for us for the last two years, and I think his hamstring or whatever has impacted him; I don't expect that to carry over into next year.  So I think good chance that he'll be an acceptable late-rotation guy next spring.  So, we've got 4 guys; we really only need one new starter.  Lets get the best one we can get/afford.  Get a variably good one as your #3 starter, let Hendricks/Hammel fill out #4/5 spots, and let your offense and bullpen win a lot of games. 

Don't really pursue two half-price starters.  We can't guarantee two starter spots; and a guy who isn't good enough to command a guaranteed spot probably isn't that good.  Lets just get the best individual guy we can afford.  Whether that's Price, Zimmerman, Cueto, Samardzija, Kazmir, I don't know. 

A challenge has been the insurance/depth.  If we add a single rotation guy, suppose Cueto or Zimmerman, we may again be depth-risky.
*May depend on how they view/value/scout Pierce Johnson.  I'd like to think that he's interesting enough that he'd be a better anti-awful emergency guy than what they had this year. 
*Would be nice to be able to resign Cahill and/or Richard.  Cahill may look for a place with a clear competition opportunity, so not sure he'll want to resign if Arrieta/Lester/Cueto/Hendricks/Hammel are pretty much written in rotation, and his only shot to start is injury.  So maybe he'd rather sign with Minnesota or Cinci or Milwaukee or wherever, such that if he pitches well, he'd have a clear competition within which he can win a job.  But, I'd love to have him back if he's willing to resign.
*If we had Cahill, Pierce Johnson, Richard, and Wood all still in the organization, I think I'd be pretty OK with the rotation contingency plans. 

So, here's the plan:
1.  Sign the best single rotation guy you can. 
2.  Resign Cahill and Richard, and retain Wood.
3.  Go hard after one more good relief pitcher X, better than Hunter.  Pen:  Rondon, Strop, X, Grimm, Cahill, Wood, Richard. 
4.  Resign Fowler, 3-years + options. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chiman on October 01, 2015, 03:17:42 pm
Dave, I like that lineup batting but I am not sure if it would work in the field for a season. I think Bryant can play a little CF but I dont think the Cubs would want to play him there for 100+ games. Maddon loves to have lots of flexibility and Bryant is a big piece of that. I really think one of Castro or Baez could be included in a trade for a SP even though I would love to keep all these guys together and they may depending on what happens in the playoffs.     
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on October 01, 2015, 03:14:34 pm
In my opinion, Schwarber - Bryant - Soler would be a below average defensive outfield.  But it might well provide enough surplus offensive production to be an overall plus.  Especially if both Baez and Castro perform well offensively in the infield.  The infield defense of Baez - Russell - Castro - Rizzo might be the best in baseball.

Still a little early to assume that Baez and Castro will be plus offensive players, but there is enough potential there that I would love to see them try it.

Another thing to remember is that even if everyone mentioned performs well, Maddon shuffles people around often enough that we would probably only see that lineup about half the time.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 01, 2015, 03:09:15 pm
I like the way you think, Dave.  It's definitely worth thinking about.  Bryant has been fine at third, but Baez looked really, really good when I saw him there.  Putting Bryant in center means you could keep Castro at second and that you wouldn't have to resign Fowler for more money than you'll want to pay him.

I think I would head into the off-season willing to listen on either Baez or Castro but not "looking to move" either of them.  Depending upon what I thought of Bryant in center.  I didn't watch him out there enough to get a good idea of his abilities.

I can't remember the defensive spectrum well enough.  Isn't center is approximately equal to third?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on October 01, 2015, 02:53:50 pm
This is more of a Cubs in '16 question...

How bad would a Schwarber-Bryant-Soler outfield be, defensively? Would Bryant be more of an injury risk in CF? Schwarber has looked better than I think most of us expected in LF, and I think Soler is better than he played in stretches this season.

I'm completely enthralled at the thought of a Baez/Russell left side of the infield next season (or even Russell/Baez)...

In this config, I see a batting order of...

Russell
Schwarber
Bryant
Rizzo
Soler
Montero
Castro
P
Baez

Will Castro have enough patience to hit 7th? Would Baez? Would Montero be better in that slot? If P 9th, who is the better choice for 8th? Can Russell be effective in the 1 hole? Will he show more speed than he has this season?

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 02:40:39 pm
The link you gave is out of date.  Fangraphs has not published how the treat park factors.  In the past the adjusted for home starts (roughly half) as well as league.  Would it be more accurate to do every park, sure.  Will it amount to much of a difference no.  The link you provided BR applies the park/league to the league average pitcher and not the pitcher himself.  You also missed the point, when I was mentioning league/park adjustments I was talking about xFIP- which is league and park adjusted.  If your going to compare to a career average this is the type of stat you want to use.  Not just ERA or xFIP or whatever you want to use. 

The WAR explained link is the current one on BR site, as far as I can tell. Cameron didn't say anything that contradicts what is in that link. If it's wrong in interpreting Fangraphs, hope they correct that.

Do you mean "now" instead of "not" in your second sentence above?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 01, 2015, 02:17:53 pm
fWAR ignores actual parks where pitcher at issue pitches and ignores actual teams pitches against (see link). rWAR takes that into account. That's what I was referring to.

The link you gave is out of date.  Fangraphs has not published how the treat park factors.  In the past the adjusted for home starts (roughly half) as well as league.  Would it be more accurate to do every park, sure.  Will it amount to much of a difference no.  The link you provided BR applies the park/league to the league average pitcher and not the pitcher himself.  You also missed the point, when I was mentioning league/park adjustments I was talking about xFIP- which is league and park adjusted.  If your going to compare to a career average this is the type of stat you want to use.  Not just ERA or xFIP or whatever you want to use. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on October 01, 2015, 02:01:24 pm
Quote
Not trying to keep score on any of this.

Ha.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 01:54:29 pm
Don't think you grasp difference between actual performance and projection.

Take strand rate. If you are watching a game today and pitcher is pitching out of trouble, he is doing a good job. If it's a Cubs pitcher, you are not going to say Hammel sucks today when he successfully strands runners. If he does that, it's a good performance. Stranding runners is GOOD.

But, we know that an abnormally high strand rate is not sustainable long-term. See Randy Wells in that good season. So, of course, we have to look at that and the context. But, that was an extreme case, no real previous track record, and don't think too many had delusions about Wells at that level. So, if anybody looked only at his ERA, that was dumb.

On the other hand, most cases are more of a mixed bag. You "discount" ERA. Your word. Discount means "unworthy of consideration." Dictionary definition. So,when you say you look at ERA in some way, that is BS. That is dumb too because ERA is a very good measurement of pitcher performance in actually preventing runs. It's what actually happened in that game and in that season and in that career.

Not the whole story, true, which is why I look at FIP stats too but rely on ERA at about 50%. But, on what planet is actual outs/runs pitcher performance "unworthy of consideration?"

Get real.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 01, 2015, 01:18:08 pm
The link you gave is out of date.  fWAR changed how the handle park adjustments.  In the past the used the home park factor for 1/2 of the starts.  They also have adjust for league.  Your missing the point though.  When I talked about park and league adjustments I was specifically mentioning comparing Fister's xFIP to his career xFIP.  You said the numbers where the same and the bump shouldn't matter.  His carrer xFIP- (xFIP park and league adjusted) is 94 (above average).  His 2014 xFIP- was 104 (below league average).  This holds true for SEIRA and FIP- and DRA as well.  The only number it doesn't is ERA-.

ERA is a flawed stat.  It gives the pitcher credit for defensive plays and unearned runs.  RA/9 would be a better stat to use, but still flawed.  When I look at ERA I'm looking at a difference between it and FIP/xFIP/SIERA/DRA.  There is no formula.  Just because an ERA is low is doesn't mean the pitcher is doing well or something that is sustainable.  Chances are very good that when Theo/Hoyer are looking at pitchers they aren't using ERA.  Chances are they have their own in house version of xFIP/FIP/SIERA/DRA that is far more complex than what is in the public plus scouting info that is going to be much better than what you or I can do watching TV or at a live game unless you are sitting directly behind home plate and have a scouting background.

Fister was better pitcher 2011-2013 than 2014.  I like the 2011-2013 Fister.  2014 was a fluky year for him.

Sigh on deGrom, Inciarte.  To make it easier for you I think they suck.  I don't really, but you can't seem to grasp what I'm saying.

The walks were down and that is great for him the K% was a bigger concern.  More balls in play mean more bad things can happen.  Limiting walks is great.  Limiting walks and losing strikeouts isn't so great.  LD% in a single year can be fluky, it take 1 1/2 years for it to stablize (greater than 50% chance it isn't do to luck).   I wouldn't hang your hat on him ever being able to reproduce it.

I often post from my phone so at time when I'm flipping through various windows I'll grab stats from the wrong year.  I'll try and do better.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 12:17:41 pm
fWAR ignores actual parks where pitcher at issue pitches and ignores actual teams pitches against (see link). rWAR takes that into account. That's what I was referring to.

You say you "look" at ERA , but you don't really. Read your own posts. Whenever anybody references ERA, you enphasize xFIP. Time and again. Actually, you just said you "discount" ERA (as does Cameron). Think that's nutty. You look at ERA but then discount it? No clue what that means. If you take ERA into account, what's the formula?

Everybody looks at variety of components. You say you do, but you are actually very limited in how reach conclusions. And, occasionally, when I check your numbers, they are inaccurate. Have pointed that out in past.

Never said Fister was "great"--just that had career year in 2014. Maybe you agree now but with caveats. Fine.

Not holding past comments about deGrom and Inciarte against you. I have made bad calls too--don't look them up. Just referenced them to show how you go overboard, too often, on a narrow component and without context.

Now you've finally at least acknowledged Fister 2014 line drive %....but still ignore 2014 walks. Pretty essential component for Fister.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_comparison.shtml
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 01, 2015, 10:42:39 am
Regarding league differences and environments, ironic you would ask that question because you rely on fWAR--which totally discounts park factors and makes no league adjustments at all.  I'm interested in that (are you?) and if we use rWAR we get 4.5 WAR for 2014 Fister, a career high.  So, which is it..context of park and league or not?

Funny you mention that.  Here is Dave Cameron from his chat on Fangraphs yesterday.

Comment From Guest
since WAR is FIP based, that means it’s not taking park into account right? so WAR would undervalue pitchers in a hitters park? do I have that correct?

Dave Cameron: No, we add in park adjustments when calculating WAR.

12:05   
Dave Cameron: Our WAR isn’t just FIP * IP. There’s a bunch of adjustments in there, for league, role, park, the number of infield flies a pitcher generates, the run/win conversion. It’s a pretty complex calculation.

So your wrong.  fWAR takes that into account, but I mentioned this in reference to xFIP- which is the league and park adjusted xFIP. 

Fister has always been that guy that hit the lower part of the zone and generated weak contact, I'm not arguing that.  I like ground ball pitchers.  I arguing that with his velocity decline he won't continue to generate weak contact.  When a GB pitcher BABIP suddenly drops it is fluky.  So while you got memorized watching Fister and thinking he's great the numbers tell a different story.  It shows a pitcher who was striking out less people and getting lucky that the balls in play where getting hit at people. 

I'm not the only person that discounts ERA, again from Dave Cameron's chat

Dave Cameron: Well I don’t think voters should just vote based on FIP and WAR. I’m not going to. But I do think that mostly the writers have moved from wins to ERA, which is an improvement, but still not ideal.

I do look at ERA.  I check it against FIP/xFIP.  If the numbers are close, that is a good thing.  When ERA is low and FIP/xFIP is high that is usually not a good thing.  When ERA is high and FIP/xFIP is low that is an interesting by low guy.  Fister is a buy low guy that I have no interest in.  The Cubs have room for 1 more starter.  If you look at the 2nd/3rd/4th tier guys you can find much better pitchers.  I just don't look at FIP/xFIP/ERA though.  I also pay attention to GB%, K%, BB%, and velocity.  Those numbers can help confirm what I see in when I watch games on MLB.TV.  So despite what you think, I do watch a bunch of games, listen to podcasts, etc... I don't take what my eyes say as the final decision maker, though.  I like pitchers like Fister, that is why I'm interested in people like Null.  They have a self life though.  When the velocity and K's drop they get uninteresting very fast.  If 2011-2013 Fister was I on the market, he would be one of my first non-Price choices to sign.  That pitcher isn't on the market.

The LD% isn't something to hang your hat on either.  Those missing line drives became fly balls.  More ground balls became fly balls.  His FB% jumped 10% that year.  His FB% in 2015 stayed high and the LD% went back to his career norm in 2015.  It was likely noise.  His IFFB% has also been on decline since 2012. 

You keep mentioning deGrom and Inciarte like I think they suck.  Not wanting to trade for them is different than thinking they suck.  deGrom at the time had a low 2 ERA and a 1 ERA at home.  His ERA has gone up since then.  I think he is a perfectly fine, TORP.  I just wouldn't use assests to trade for him that it would take to get him.  Inciarte is a nice player.  If he as a CF he would likely be a 4 fWAR player this year.  I don't want to trade the assests it would take to get him, because I don't like the offensive profile.  This doesn't mean I think he sucks or that he'd help the Cubs.  The cost/benefit doesn't line up.

In short I take a lot of stuff into consideration, but I'm not going to go just off of what I see.  I'm not a scout so if I think something and the numbers don't back it up I will change my mind. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on October 01, 2015, 01:54:26 am
1) At the time it was a much larger difference. The TJS surgery is the bigger thing, but that got lost.
2) In a world where Herrera can stick around for a year, Olt can stick with somebody on the bench. Herrera won't be here much longer anyway.
3) He's Ben Revere with better defense and less speed.  I just don't like that type of player. Almora can easily be what he is.
4) When your comparing his 2014 to career are you taking into account the league difference and different offensive environments?   Just comparing raw numbers is worthless and that is what you did. If you take the different factors into account those other seasons are above average and 2014 wasn't. ERA is dependent on a bunch of factors outside the pitchers control and everything about 2014 screamed it was a fluke. If you just look at ERA (which you are doing, even though you claim it is just me) sure it was his best year. When you look at the decreased GB% (lower velocity, easier to square up and elevate), lower K% even though he moved to the NL, abnormally low BABIP it screams as something to not want on your team, and xFIP- becoming below league average. I hope some other team gives him a ton of money, just not the Cubs.
5) When I mentioned it here, people thought I was crazy.

 Curt Samardzija=Russell.  Let go of the hate.

Find it a more than a little bizarre how you seem to totally discount pitcher ERA.  Never encountered anybody who does that. Think doing that is a bad idea.

We've discussed this before. For me, ERA is more important than FIP or xFIP.  I don't discount the latter but tend to blend them, with ERA about 50%--with the other two factored in.  If you do that, Fister in 2014 is a career season for him and not out of whack with career.  ERA alone, yes, was an outlier and don't think anybody expected him to do that again, as I've said.

Regarding league differences and environments, ironic you would ask that question because you rely on fWAR--which totally discounts park factors and makes no league adjustments at all.  I'm interested in that (are you?) and if we use rWAR we get 4.5 WAR for 2014 Fister, a career high.  So, which is it..context of park and league or not?

I keep referencing Fister's 2014 lower line drive rate and walks...and you keep ignoring that.  What you are also seem to be doing is applying a cookie-cutter approach to a very unusual pitcher.  Not too many guys effective working in upper 80s these days.  So, for me, drop of slightly less than 1 mph in velocity in 2014 doesn't mean much, standing alone, for that guy.  Drop in groundball outs, yes concerned about that, but tempered by lower walks and fewer line drives. Put another way, it's a mixed bag.

Unlike you, I believe, I watched a lot of Fister that season and he was a command guy in bottom of zone.  Lot of weak contact.  6'8' with very long arms.  Unusual pitcher.

I realize that not everybody is lucky enough to live near a big league park or can watch the MLB package but it's helpful when assessing players to watch at least a few games they play.  Presumably, Cubs are pretty busy right now scouting potential post-season opponents.  Cubs could save a lot of time and resources by just taking a quick look at x-FIP or fWAR but don't think they stop there.  Think you would not be going astray on some guys such as deGrom and inciarte and Fister in 2014 if you could watch them a bit more. 

Saying Inciarte is like Revere except for defense is cute but Inciarte is one of the premier defensive OFers in baseball.  Won't bother with defensive WAR stats. You know them.  Watch him play too.  Yeah, Almora--if he develops--might be similar.  Let us hope. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on October 01, 2015, 12:11:56 am
1) At the time it was a much larger difference. The TJS surgery is the bigger thing, but that got lost.
2) In a world where Herrera can stick around for a year, Olt can stick with somebody on the bench. Herrera won't be here much longer anyway.
3) He's Ben Revere with better defense and less speed.  I just don't like that type of player. Almora can easily be what he is.
4) When your comparing his 2014 to career are you taking into account the league difference and different offensive environments?   Just comparing raw numbers is worthless and that is what you did. If you take the different factors into account those other seasons are above average and 2014 wasn't. ERA is dependent on a bunch of factors outside the pitchers control and everything about 2014 screamed it was a fluke. If you just look at ERA (which you are doing, even though you claim it is just me) sure it was his best year. When you look at the decreased GB% (lower velocity, easier to square up and elevate), lower K% even though he moved to the NL, abnormally low BABIP it screams as something to not want on your team, and xFIP- becoming below league average. I hope some other team gives him a ton of money, just not the Cubs.
5) When I mentioned it here, people thought I was crazy.

 Curt Samardzija=Russell.  Let go of the hate.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 30, 2015, 10:35:49 pm
1) I never said deGrom was bad.  He just wasn't someone I would target in a trade. The home/road splits and TJS surgery concern me.
2) I missed on Olt saying he'd be an interesting bench guy, I never predicted stardom for the guy. Just checked Olt has a higher wRC+ than Herrera with the White Sox.
3) I don't like low power, low walk players that are dependent on BABIP for their offensive value. I still wouldn't trade for him. I doubt the DBacks trade him either.
4) Comparing his xFIP to his career xFIP isn't how you do it. 2011 with Tigers it was 2.75.  2012 3.39, 2013 3.42. 2014 3.85. You compare it the ERA and 2014 sticks out like a sore thumb. His xFIP- has been below league average until 2014.  Besides the forearm issues he also had shoulder issues in 2014. The guy is injury prone and isn't the pitcher he used to be.
5) If you want to give my "misses" I railed against Jackson, loved Samardzija, wanted Hammel as a FA and mentioned that Arrieta had ace stuff the day we traded for him.
6) I am also quite happy to be wrong about Castro turning it around with the Cubs. I thought he had a chance to do it somewhere else, but I've always liked him except for a 2 month span of sucking.

1. deGrom road ERA is #11 best in NL at 3.09.  Why in world would that concern you? 

2. Don't think "stardom" was ever the discussion about Olt. Herrera is here, Olt is not.  That was the discussion.  And, Olt seems to be blowing his opportunity with Sox, unfortunately. 

3. Some guys are going to fit the profile of outperforming somewhat the norm on BABIP.  That's Inciarte.  Not being critical about the result, but the rigidity of overemphasizing one stat like that in isolation from other factors, including watching/scouting the player.  Actually, you do that a bit too much, generally. My opinion.

4. Sorry you don't like comparing one season to same player's career.  Maybe we can agree that, in some respects, 2014 was an outlier for Fister, but for different reasons. I think, on balance, was career best season and you think career worst season (prior to 2015). You should explain to Fister why he was actually bad two years in a row (and the team that signs him for probably a pretty nice contract for 2016).

5. Funny, every thing I read now is that everybody said that Arrieta had "ace stuff" with Orioles.  Even Orioles agree with that. Can we find somebody that didn't like his stuff with Orioles? I will give you credit for that (but not too much).

6. As to Castro, a month or so ago, I inadvertently said he was getting close to .700 OPS, when I meant to say close to .600 OPS. Now, he's getting close to .700 OPS.  See, I was inadvertently correct a month ago. 

Not trying to keep score on any of this.  More important how we get to the point--the process--than the actual result that happens. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 30, 2015, 09:59:32 pm
as Fister loses velocity he is going to be a less effective ground ball pitcher. What used to be ground balls will become harder hit balls. He'll have to reinvent himself as a fly ball pitcher.  That takes excellent command because the margin of error is small. See Dan Haren.

Why will he have to reinvent himself as a fly ball pitcher?  If hit balls are still being hit into the ground, even if they are being hit harder, they are still most likely going to be groundball outs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 30, 2015, 09:47:48 pm
In that case, I still hold Samardzija against you, and Reb wins.

Next!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 09:34:35 pm
1) I never said deGrom was bad.  He just wasn't someone I would target in a trade. The home/road splits and TJS surgery concern me.
2) I missed on Olt saying he'd be an interesting bench guy, I never predicted stardom for the guy. Just checked Olt has a higher wRC+ than Herrera with the White Sox.
3) I don't like low power, low walk players that are dependent on BABIP for their offensive value. I still wouldn't trade for him. I doubt the DBacks trade him either.
4) Comparing his xFIP to his career xFIP isn't how you do it. 2011 with Tigers it was 2.75.  2012 3.39, 2013 3.42. 2014 3.85. You compare it the ERA and 2014 sticks out like a sore thumb. His xFIP- has been below league average until 2014.  Besides the forearm issues he also had shoulder issues in 2014. The guy is injury prone and isn't the pitcher he used to be.
5) If you want to give my "misses" I railed against Jackson, loved Samardzija, wanted Hammel as a FA and mentioned that Arrieta had ace stuff the day we traded for him.
6) I am also quite happy to be wrong about Castro turning it around with the Cubs. I thought he had a chance to do it somewhere else, but I've always liked him except for a 2 month span of sucking.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 30, 2015, 09:16:16 pm
You do realize that FIP, xFIP are more predictive of the future success than any stat you mentioned. So if your looking to see what the future holds don't you want to look at the stats that have the highest predictive value?  Not your "real world" stats. fWAR is more predictive of the future than rWAR. 2014 he had an fWAR of 1.4.

His K% fell from 18% to 14.8%. His fastball velocity dropped from 88.8 to 87.9. His 2014 GB% was down from 2013. He lived off of a career low .262 BABIP. There was nothing to like about his 2014 season except for his ERA.   Fister had forearm tightness this year. Previous injury is greatest predictor of future injury and forearm tightness can turn into TJS. He is any easy pass, I'd rather give a rotation spot to Wood, Cahill or Turner before I'd sign Fister.

I'm not saying that Fister and Weaver are similar pitchers. I'm saying that as Fister loses velocity he is going to be a less effective ground ball pitcher. What used to be ground balls will become harder hit balls. He'll have to reinvent himself as a fly ball pitcher.  That takes excellent command because the margin of error is small. See Dan Haren.


If Fister's 2014 x-FIP was intended to predict his 2015 season, it failed miserably. That's because baseball is not a mechanical exercise.  2014 x-FIP would have said he would return to his more typical season.  (His x-FIP in 2014 was 3.85 compared to his career 3.78 x-FIP).  It did not project the 2015 slide. Fister fell off in 2015 because of injury, mechanical problems, and the expected random chance that players fluctuate in performance--in his case also by drop in velocity and command.

Don't think anyone expected Fister to have another career year in 2015.  Didn't really need x-FIP to tell you that. Think any semi-sophisticated observer could tell you that. We see this kind of thing in baseball all the time. Guy has career year at age 30--probably will revert to his mean. In any case, wasn't just his ERA in 2014 that was really good. His line drive rate was best of his career,  K/W rate best of his career. BB/9 best of his career. He was good.

Other thing is this:  nobody plays a season for the purpose of predicting the next season.  You play a season to do well that season and to win.  Fister had a career best season in 2014, not a decline season. Very few folks thought he would do that again in quite that way in 2015. As it turned out, he was worse than anyone or any metric projected. 

If you want to play the game of 20-20 hindsight, be my guest.  Maybe there is a post of yours projecting Fister's 2015 disaster posted on the board a year ago.  Don't think you did so well on deGrom, Inciarte, Olt, and others discussed before the fact. Nobody is all that good about this stuff.  Sometimes right, sometimes wrong. Everybody. Maybe the guys who get paid the big bucks are good at it at a higher rate than rest of us.

Think it is likely that Fister will be a lot better in 2016 than in 2015, just as was likely would not repeat his 2014 season in 2015.  Lots of clubs--in the real world-- will project a 2016 uptick.  Whether he turns out to be good value depends on his contract and situation.  We share same thought that he's probably not a good match for 2016 Cubs.  But, there is nothing in his 2014 xFIP or fWAR or anything else that projected what was to happen in 2015.  And, like me, you have no clue what 2016 has in store for Fister.  You can act like you do, but you don't. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 30, 2015, 08:35:28 pm
The Wada appearance was in the 8th inning of a 14-5 Cubs win, so it was pretty forgettable.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 30, 2015, 08:34:30 pm
I am more surprised that Edwards hasn't pitched more since he was called up.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on September 30, 2015, 08:30:08 pm
Wada pitched one inning on September 4.  He gave up 1 hit and 1 unearned run, but I don't think it was very impressive.  Maybe he got hurt again.

Thanks, BR; I had completely missed that game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 30, 2015, 08:24:53 pm
Wada pitched one inning on September 4.  He gave up 1 hit and 1 unearned run, but I don't think it was very impressive.  Maybe he got hurt again.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 08:22:55 pm
"give a rotation spot to Wood, Cahill or Turner before I'd sign Turner. "

huh?

I don't know what you mean.  :)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on September 30, 2015, 08:20:47 pm
Too much sucky sucky.


In that case how are Hunter and Rosscup still hanging around the back of the bullpen?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 30, 2015, 08:18:13 pm
When isn't he?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on September 30, 2015, 08:14:13 pm
Too much sucky sucky.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on September 30, 2015, 08:01:53 pm
What ever happened to Tsuyoshi Wada?  I heard he was being called up for September, but he hasn't pitched yet.  Is he hurt?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 30, 2015, 07:57:42 pm
"give a rotation spot to Wood, Cahill or Turner before I'd sign Turner. "

huh?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 07:49:47 pm
You do realize that FIP, xFIP are more predictive of the future success than any stat you mentioned. So if your looking to see what the future holds don't you want to look at the stats that have the highest predictive value?  Not your "real world" stats. fWAR is more predictive of the future than rWAR. 2014 he had an fWAR of 1.4.

His K% fell from 18% to 14.8%. His fastball velocity dropped from 88.8 to 87.9. His 2014 GB% was down from 2013. He lived off of a career low .262 BABIP. There was nothing to like about his 2014 season except for his ERA.   Fister had forearm tightness this year. Previous injury is greatest predictor of future injury and forearm tightness can turn into TJS. He is any easy pass, I'd rather give a rotation spot to Wood, Cahill or Turner before I'd sign Fister.

I'm not saying that Fister and Weaver are similar pitchers. I'm saying that as Fister loses velocity he is going to be a less effective ground ball pitcher. What used to be ground balls will become harder hit balls. He'll have to reinvent himself as a fly ball pitcher.  That takes excellent command because the margin of error is small. See Dan Haren.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 30, 2015, 05:08:44 pm
His velocity dropped the year before to 87.8 as well as his strike outs, so it just wasn't this year. He outperformed his peripherals a lot in 2014. That is when the decline started. The slower his fastball gets the easier it is to hit. The easier it gets to hit, the harder contact he will give up. The harder the contact the less ground balls we will get.

Weaver and Young are both pitchers that don't have fastballs and don't strike people out. They do it by working in a small silver of the zone up high. If they miss it gets hit a long way. This just isn't the type of pitcher the Cubs should be going
after.

He averaged 89.6 in 2011 that is why I gave it the range, just getting back to 88 would be fine. I doubt that happens.

No, Fister did not start to decline in 2014.  Actually, can make good argument 2014 was career best season for Fister. 

Career bests in (1) rWAR (4.5), (2) ERA (2.42), (3) ERA+ (154), (4) K/W ratio (4.08), (5) career low line drive % (16.9%). He finished #8 in Cy Young voting (ahead of Jake Arrieta). Know we're not supposed to mention wins but was 16-6 (this sentence will self-destruct in 10 seconds).  Yes, if one goes entirely by peripherals--to the exclusion of THE REAL WORLD--then you can nitpik about FIP, strand rate, etc.  Value the peripherals, yes, but we have to balance that out with some actual events on the field of play.  On balance, Fister was really good in 2014.  He did that throwing 88.   

Fister is not like Weaver or Young in terms of attacking hitters.  Night and day.  Saw Fister quite a bit in 2014, some in person at Nats Park:  tons of grounders, 3/4 arm slot from a very, very tall pitcher, exceptionally long arms, seems tough to pick up for hitters, really good movement given arm slot, down-down-down in the zone with great command.

That was 2014.  In 2015, different story, Was hurt, had trouble with mechanics, velocity was down, command was off, fewer ground balls.  Solution is not going to be pitching up in the zone more.  That is Weaver/Young--not Fister. No idea if he can return to form in 2016 but lots of teams will explore signing him depending on bunch of team factors and cost.

Not saying Cubs should be one of those teams.  Maybe too much like Hendricks and think rotation should have different looks, unless you can field staff full of power pitchers.  One finesse righty is probably enough already.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 01:59:31 pm
Carrasco would be great.  I really doubt the Indians will trade him for anything less than a trade that is going to cause this board to go out and get depends.

Ross would likely have a hefty price tag as well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 30, 2015, 01:55:17 pm
I wanted Ross at the deadline and would've given up a lot for him.  But a big part of his value at that time was that the Cubs would've had him for three pennant races/postseasons.  Now that he only provides value to two seasons, I'm not sure he's valuable enough to be worth what the Padres are going to want. 

Carrasco would be ideal.  I think I'd rather have him than Price. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 30, 2015, 01:46:50 pm
First priority should be Price. Failing that, second and third might be to see if they can dislodge Ross or Carrasco from the Padres or Indians as they tried to do in July.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 30, 2015, 01:42:16 pm
I don't think that not getting Price will be a matter of not "affording" him as not valuing him as much as the market does.  The estimates seem to range around 30 million per year.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs signed two or three free agent pitchers whose combined salaries come close to that.  I think that their decision point will be whether several good pitchers totally 30 million will help the Cubs more than one great pitcher at that price.

If they are going to toss around a lot of money for a TOR starter, I would rather that they look at extending Arietta.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on September 30, 2015, 10:52:09 am
Hendricks has been better at home, Hammel has been better on the road.  Might play into what Joe chooses to do.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 30, 2015, 10:46:24 am
No.  I was talking about next year's rotation.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 30, 2015, 10:02:52 am
I think Hendricks would be best sandwiched between Arrieta and Lester...It would probably be best for all three in terms of variance in speeds.  I have lost confidence in Hammel.   I think there would be value in going after a few guys like Iwakuma, Leake, Buehrle, or Chapman (converting him to starter.)

So, if the Cubs make it past the Pirates to the NLDS, on Oct 9, Lester; on Oct 10 Hendricks; on Oct 12 (the game for which I have a ticket), Arrieta; on Oct 13 ... ?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 09:52:49 am
Mark Simon ‏@msimonespn  7m7 minutes ago
Addison Russell ranks 4th in MLB in Defensive Runs Saved at 2B
Addison Russell also ranks 4th in MLB in Defensive Runs Saved at SS

Hendricks/Hammel are better pitchers than Leake.  If you can't get Price, Samardzija would be my next choice.  Failing to get those two Iwakuma, Brett Anderson and JA Happ would be the next tier.

Hammel fell apart after he hurt his hamstring, I wonder if it is still bothering him or if it messed up his mechanics.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 30, 2015, 09:45:21 am
Anybody watch last night and see CJ Edwards?  On radio, he sounded like he was doing well, until walking Votto on 4 straight.  If Bosio can help edwards with his delivery and improve his control at least somewhat, he's got a chance to be a significant contributor next summer. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 30, 2015, 09:26:49 am
I think Hendricks would be best sandwiched between Arrieta and Lester...It would probably be best for all three in terms of variance in speeds.  I have lost confidence in Hammel.   I think there would be value in going after a few guys like Iwakuma, Leake, Buehrle, or Chapman (converting him to starter.)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 30, 2015, 07:59:22 am
I wonder if Mike Leake is a guy that the Cubs will target after the season.  That would give them Hammel and Leake in the middle of the rotation, sliding Hendricks to the 5-slot.  Cubs have an option on Hammel for 2017 and would have the flexibility to either sign him for that season or to buy him out and add another quality starter through trade/FA.  The money saved by not signing Price could be profitably used to address other needs (e.g., CF, bullpen).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 07:14:41 am
His velocity dropped the year before to 87.8 as well as his strike outs, so it just wasn't this year. He outperformed his peripherals a lot in 2014. That is when the decline started. The slower his fastball gets the easier it is to hit. The easier it gets to hit, the harder contact he will give up. The harder the contact the less ground balls we will get.

Weaver and Young are both pitchers that don't have fastballs and don't strike people out. They do it by working in a small silver of the zone up high. If they miss it gets hit a long way. This just isn't the type of pitcher the Cubs should be going
after.

He averaged 89.6 in 2011 that is why I gave it the range, just getting back to 88 would be fine. I doubt that happens.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 30, 2015, 03:10:04 am

Fister fastball is 86 and falling they last two years. Unless they have something to bring it back up to 88-90 he isn't the type of pitcher a contending team should go after. Fister was a guy that works low in the zone and gets ground balls. At 86 that isn't going to work. He will have to pitch up in the zone in an incredibly small area to get weak contact. Let another team feel the pain. Even Maddux reached a point where he couldn't get by at a low velocity.

 Fister situation is more complicated than just throwing 88-90.

First, Can't lump together 88-90 velocity, as you do. Fister at 88 is fine. Doesn't need 90. Has rarely been 90 in his career. 86 is another matter. Even though Jered Weaver has done fine at 86.5, tough to do. Fister has been hurt in 2015, so maybe can tick up a bit. Hard to say. But, other stuff too. Fewer ground balls this season hurt him. Walks up a bit. Combo of things, mainly his health. Not just velocity.

Also, don't agree that going from 88 to 86 means that a pitcher has to work up in the zone. Fisher's command was not as good in 2015, along with lower velocity. Just made more poor pitches, not because had to or needed to work higher in zone. Fister is generally trying to induce grounders and commanding bottom of zone. Always has.

Second, signing value depends on several things: contract cost and term; type of defense behind him, where he is expected to fit in rotation. Lots of teams will value him for the right situation. Not saying he's necessarily a good fit for Cubs but would not be surprised if turns out to be good value for somebody at right price and situation.

Not just a black or white thing whether he can get to 88-90.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 30, 2015, 02:51:12 am
Rickett's didn't say a whole lot. If the Cubs don't go after Price it will be more they don't want three expensive pitchers than what they can afford.


There is no meaningful difference between (1) not wanting three expensive pitchers and (2) can't afford Price. It's fundamentally the same thing:  Price doesn't fit in the payroll(s) Ricketts is giving Theo. if Theo has the payroll money for Price, hard to see where or how it's better spent elsewhere.

Let's see if there is a very significant payroll boost, or not. That's what it will take to sign Price. If there will be, Ricketts playing it close to vest for now.

If you're making point that want to save money for Arrieta's next contract, I've made that point earlier--so agree with that.

Yeah, hard to see how three hugely expensive, long-term pitcher contracts fit into a realistic payroll going forward. Think we'll see something more modest.

Or, I could be wrong and Ricketts gives Theo a big payroll boost right away. That would be great---greater if partly based on Cubs playing into November awash with World Series money and more. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 30, 2015, 01:03:56 am
Rickett's didn't say a whole lot. If the Cubs don't go after Price it will be more they don't want three expensive pitchers than what they can afford.

Fister fastball is 86 and falling they last two years. Unless they have something to bring it back up to 88-90 he isn't the type of pitcher a contending team should go after. Fister was a guy that works low in the zone and gets ground balls. At 86 that isn't going to work. He will have to pitch up in the zone in an incredibly small area to get weak contact. Let another team feel the pain. Even Maddux reached a point where he couldn't get by at a low velocity.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on September 30, 2015, 12:19:09 am
Think you're going to see lots of Fister rumors around baseball. Starting already.

Hey! keep that stuff in Under the Bleachers.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 30, 2015, 12:14:14 am
Think you're going to see lots of Fister rumors around baseball. Starting already. See link below. Good track record pre-2015, no qualifying offer, short-term deal, a month younger than Lester. And, outstanding post-season career performances. GMs well aware of that history.

Ricketts comments about payroll don't exactly inspire confidence that Cubs will offer small fortune to David Price. Would love to be wrong, but don't see it.

Think maybe Cubs bring in two quality starting pitchers, not just one. Maybe one with a stronger track record and another guy with more risk.

Ender Inciarte for CF! Read today that DBacks might be looking to move an OFer this off-season. Inciarte havung strong 2015 season abd pre-arb for 2016.

More Fister:

http://jaysjournal.com/2015/09/28/blue-jays-rumors-doug-fister-fee-agency/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 29, 2015, 11:06:41 pm
Cameron piece concludes with him wondering if Doug Fister could be a comp for Hendricks.  Interesting because Fister came up repeatedly on the board as Hendricks-upside guy when Hendricks was putting up very good numbers in minors.

Cubs Den wrote a piece today that the Cubs might be interested in Fister.  If the sign him, I might need meds.  A soon to be 32 year pitcher with an 86 mph fastball isn't my idea of improving the rotation.  I think the key with Hendricks is ride him while he is cheap and dump him like the Tigers did when he gets expensive.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 29, 2015, 05:44:01 pm
Cahill will be a free agent at the end of the season.

There is NO club option on Cahill anymore and he will be a free agent.  See AZ Phil below:

Submitted by Arizona Phil  on Tue, 09/15/2015 - 2:40pm 

Trevor Cahill's 2016 club option buy-out was auitomatically triggered when he was released by Atlanta. So he gets $300K after the season (to be paid either by Arizona or Atlanta, depending on what the teams agreed to do when he traded from AZ to ATL).

The Cubs do not owe Cahill anything beyond the pro-rated portion of the MLB minimum salary they are paying him through the end of the 2015 season, but they also do not have a club option (or buy-out) for 2016. And so Cahill will be an unrestricted Article XX-B MLB FA post-2015.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 29, 2015, 05:42:49 pm
Trevor Cahill was DFAd by Atlanta on 6/15/2015 and signed as a free agent to a minor league contract by the Cubs on 8/18/2015.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 29, 2015, 05:34:19 pm
That's what I assumed.  Can always negotiate a new deal if things work out.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 29, 2015, 05:05:33 pm
too much
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 29, 2015, 04:58:56 pm
How much is the option?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 29, 2015, 04:49:58 pm
Cahill will be a free agent at the end of the season.

Only if the Cubs decide not to pick up his option.  His current contract allows team options both this year and next.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 29, 2015, 04:05:32 pm
....... I do sometime wonder whether a guy like Hendricks could become a real asset at a time when players are increasingly used to facing really hard throwing pitchers (so long as he is executing well).

Cameron piece concludes with him wondering if Doug Fister could be a comp for Hendricks.  Interesting because Fister came up repeatedly on the board as Hendricks-upside guy when Hendricks was putting up very good numbers in minors.

That will depend a lot on make-up and whether Hendricks can maintain confidence. Recall some folks thought were seeing bad face on mound from him few weeks ago.  Don't think so. Same guy.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 29, 2015, 03:56:22 pm
Think has gone mostly unnoticed, but Fowler having his worst month of the season. September OPS is .624---worse than months earlier in season when some were thinking about getting a lefty platoon partner for him.

Guess he'll bounce back eventually if Cubs can keep it going for awhile.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 29, 2015, 03:45:12 pm
Cahill will be a free agent at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on September 29, 2015, 03:39:26 pm
Cahill has been outstanding too.  Is he under our control next year?  I'd really like to see him get a chance to start again.  He was so good for the A's a fouple of years ago and he seems to have found something that works again since he joined the Cubs.  Let him be part of the 5th starter conpetition. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 29, 2015, 03:36:23 pm
Dave Cameron makes the argument for Kyle Hendricks.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-cubs-have-a-3-starter/

Thanks for the link, Reb.  Very intriguing article.  I do sometime wonder whether a guy like Hendricks could become a real asset at a time when players are increasingly used to facing really hard throwing pitchers (so long as he is executing well).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 29, 2015, 03:25:10 pm
Dave Cameron makes the argument for Kyle Hendricks.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-cubs-have-a-3-starter/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 29, 2015, 01:01:07 pm
Wouldn't it be great if someday Cardinals fans would bitch ". . . that bastard Bosio will just get somebody off the scrap heap and turn him into the best pitcher in baseball again."

Fixed it :)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 29, 2015, 12:19:11 pm
Rodney was a great acquisition.  Their success with these types of reclamation projects has been really good overall.

Wouldn't it be great if someday Cardinals fans would bitch ". . . that bastard Bosio will just get somebody off the scrap heap and turn him into a shutdown reliever again."
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 29, 2015, 11:41:11 am
Sounds like most people who are made to work on their off day...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 29, 2015, 10:57:54 am
It didn't look like either team was inclined to grind out ABs last night.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 29, 2015, 10:50:40 am
Very nice to have Hendricks with a really good game.  I wonder if his stuff benefits from unfamiliarity?  Division teams have seen his change a lot of times, does that perhaps help them adapt to it somewhat?  But Kansas City, a little tougher?  Or just a function of him pitching really well, and having his command sharp? 

A lot of average pitchers can pitch very, very well on their sharp days when things are working.  Sometimes playoff adrenaline brings out their best, sometimes it works against optimal command. 

I believe J.D. commented last night that Hendricks is harder to hit when hitters are unfamiliar with him.  But he also noted that he was doing a much better job of commanding his pitches, specifically keeping them down in (and below) the strikezone.  After his two walks in the first inning, he was very, very good.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 29, 2015, 09:06:10 am
Very nice to have Hendricks with a really good game.  I wonder if his stuff benefits from unfamiliarity?  Division teams have seen his change a lot of times, does that perhaps help them adapt to it somewhat?  But Kansas City, a little tougher?  Or just a function of him pitching really well, and having his command sharp? 

A lot of average pitchers can pitch very, very well on their sharp days when things are working.  Sometimes playoff adrenaline brings out their best, sometimes it works against optimal command. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 29, 2015, 08:57:14 am
Fernando Rodney as a Cub...

10.1 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 3 BB, 13 K, 0.87 ERA
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 29, 2015, 08:01:46 am
If you read Chris's link, there is also a story on Sveum at the site that yields this about our catching coach (recently discussed in the farm topic)...

Sveum is also tight with Borzello, a central figure in breaking down video, analyzing data and putting together scouting reports that highlight hitters’ weaknesses and lay out how to pitch away from slugging percentage.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 28, 2015, 11:36:09 pm
Mooney talked to Ricketts about spending and the future payroll and TV contract:

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-where-tom-ricketts-sees-payroll-going-here
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 28, 2015, 10:03:43 pm
Someone called?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: grrrrlacher on September 28, 2015, 09:55:54 pm
so the big bad banana?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 28, 2015, 04:10:33 pm
"el poder del platano", loosely translated, means "the power of the banana"...or "banana power"...I think...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 28, 2015, 04:00:49 pm
Omega is the dude's name.  The song is Ando En La Versace, which translates to Steroids in the Handbag.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 28, 2015, 03:27:19 pm
It has been almost 60 years since my high school Spanish Class.  Does it translate to "finally on fire", and if so, will they change it if he slumps again?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 28, 2015, 02:28:48 pm
It's not just the fans that like it...the Cubs dugout starts clapping along when Castro's music starts.

The hook is pretty much identical to "Thrift Shop" by Macklemore.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 28, 2015, 01:58:31 pm
Starlin Castro's walkup music has been getting some attention from a writer or two and the fans supposedly like it.  It's not really audible on the telecast so here it is in case you were wondering about it like me.   This version does pick up after about 42 seconds.

https://youtu.be/bJf8x4-6G6g (https://youtu.be/bJf8x4-6G6g)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on September 28, 2015, 11:50:03 am
I had 4 in my cart for NLDS 1 and had 75 seconds to remember my password.  Failed and lost the tickets.  By that point, 4 were no longer available, and I think my heart may have stopped momentarily.

But I reduced my requested quantity and did get 2 upper deck seats. 

Now I just need to fly home to IL.  Oh, and the Cubs need to get to the NLDS...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 28, 2015, 11:44:17 am
Well, even though I went to the prescribed website to purchase playoff tickets at the earliest possible time, the best I was able to do was one single ticket for the first NLDS game at Wrigley Field (if there is one), somewhere in the Bleachers.  But that's something, and with Arrieta pitching the Wild Card game, I'm somewhere between hopeful and optimistic that I will get to see the game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BullingersEars on September 27, 2015, 07:54:14 pm
Arrieta' going to get paid.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on September 27, 2015, 03:54:06 pm
Agreed.  Although the Cards blowing the division lead at this point would be pretty awesome too.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BullingersEars on September 27, 2015, 07:35:27 am
I'd much, much rather see the Cards in a five game series... I'd take the coin flip against the Pirates, and go from there.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 26, 2015, 09:11:38 pm
I've always wanted the Cards in the wild card game.

On an unrelated note Carpenter removed from the game tonight with hip tightness.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 26, 2015, 08:40:15 pm
The pirates definitely feel like the more dangerous and difficult opponent right now.  I suppose I can see the logic either way. 
*Easier to take your chances and knock them off in a 1-game match than to expect to beat them in a longer series? 
*Nicer to face st. Louis first and just have a better chance to win and survive?  Each elimination level is survival, so don't worry about the second level, just try to survive the first?
*In a longer series, Pittsburgh can't be starting Cole and Liriano every game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 26, 2015, 07:22:50 pm
Oh, and ditto Theo and his guys.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 26, 2015, 07:22:00 pm
And can I just say, after watching I really don't know how many managers for the Cubs, I just love Joe Maddon.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 26, 2015, 07:20:47 pm
Honestly, I'm just happy the Cubs are in the playoffs, whomever they face.  Hoping that they advance to the NLDS (especially since I can actually attend at least one game if they do). But if they don't this will have still been one Hell of a season and I am confident that it is only a taste of the future.
:D :D :D
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 26, 2015, 07:18:00 pm
Honestly, I'm just happy the Cubs are in the playoffs, whomever they face.  Hoping that they advance to the NLDS (especially since I can actually attend at least one game if they do). But if they don't this will have still been one Hell of a season and I am confident that it is only a taste of the future.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 26, 2015, 06:14:52 pm
I would rather face the Cards in a one game series.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 26, 2015, 06:10:35 pm
I'd rather play the Cards:
1) they don't have a Cole (without Wainright) and Pirates seem hotter right now;
2) IF we could beat them in WC game, we could celebrate even more than if we beat Pirates
3) If they beat us, Bucs would still have home-field advantage vs them and I'd prefer to see Pirates advance to NLCS than the Cards.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 26, 2015, 05:55:44 pm
It's strange that you infer that from that post.

It is not just that single post.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 26, 2015, 05:39:50 pm
It's strange that you infer that from that post.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 26, 2015, 05:25:52 pm
I'm with you, tico.  With the season the Cardinals have had, beating the Cubs would be no big deal, but were we to take them out...the pain for the Cardinals would be unreal.  One and out TO THE CUBS!  YES!


It is still strange to see some people more interested in causing grief for Cardinal fans than in the Cubs actually winning.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 26, 2015, 04:36:06 pm
I'd prefer to play the Pirates in the wildcard elimination game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 26, 2015, 04:33:39 pm
Call me crazy, but I think it might be a good thing they lost today.

I'd much rather face the Cardinals in a one game play-in than the Pirates.

Pirates for NL Central Champs!
I'm with you, tico.  With the season the Cardinals have had, beating the Cubs would be no big deal, but were we to take them out...the pain for the Cardinals would be unreal.  One and out TO THE CUBS!  YES!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on September 26, 2015, 04:32:58 pm
Can't have both, though. Board poll time!

Would you rather:

1) Have to get through the Pirates in order to face the Cardinals?

OR

2) Have to get through the Cardinals in order to face the Pirates?

I'll take option 2. One game deciding the fate of the entire season against the Pirates is rough. Give me five games against them, though, and I like our chances better.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 26, 2015, 04:24:36 pm
Except that I'd also prefer to play the Cardinals in a playoff series.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on September 26, 2015, 04:20:38 pm
Call me crazy, but I think it might be a good thing they lost today.

I'd much rather face the Cardinals in a one game play-in than the Pirates.

Pirates for NL Central Champs!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 26, 2015, 03:52:14 pm
They should severely limit Arrieta's pitch counts over his last two starts.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on September 26, 2015, 03:47:49 pm
Oh, they're still celebrating. Which feels weird after a loss especially. But they deserve to enjoy it together, and hopefully repeat it in a week and a half after a proper victory
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on September 26, 2015, 10:23:37 am
Losing yesterday took the fun out of clinching a spot.

It feels empty. Good but not as exciting.

I like clinching this way.  No on-field celebration; save that for when they advance.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 26, 2015, 09:35:57 am
Clinching is clinching.  I feel great.  And relieved.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 26, 2015, 09:14:50 am
I've been curious about how this works...did it say anything about if you will be eligible for future drawings if the Cubs go further? I couldn't find anything about that in the website.

The email I received said I can purchase up to four tickets, divided between a home Wild Card playoff game and two home NLDS games.  So my intention is to purchase two for the home Wild Card game, if there is one, and one each for the two potential home NLDS games.

If you are not selected for the opportunity to purchase tickets for this round, then my understanding is you are automatically eligible for a subsequent drawing for a later round (if there is a later round for the Cubs).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 26, 2015, 08:22:26 am
I now have an even stronger (highly personal) desire for the Cubs to host the Wild Card game.  I just learned that I will have an opportunity to purchase four playoff tickets (through the online lottery that was held) on Monday.  Go Cubs!

I've been curious about how this works...did it say anything about if you will be eligible for future drawings if the Cubs go further? I couldn't find anything about that in the website.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JBN on September 26, 2015, 08:03:01 am
Losing yesterday took the fun out of clinching a spot.

It feels empty. Good but not as exciting.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on September 26, 2015, 12:18:37 am
Im praying for a magical October.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: bitterman on September 26, 2015, 12:18:08 am
Maybe next year...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 25, 2015, 11:59:48 pm
Giants lose.

Cubs clinch a wild card.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 25, 2015, 07:31:40 pm
I now have an even stronger (highly personal) desire for the Cubs to host the Wild Card game.  I just learned that I will have an opportunity to purchase four playoff tickets (through the online lottery that was held) on Monday.  Go Cubs!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 25, 2015, 04:13:42 pm
I wonder what it would have taken to get Ross and Kimbrel from the Padres.  I wonder what they offered.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 24, 2015, 05:32:53 pm
Pedro Alvarez hit a 3-run, 2-out bomb in the 8th at Colorado to enable Bucs to beat Rox, 5-4.

4-game sweep in Colorado really hurts our chances of hosting WC, but oh well.  We will still have to beat Cole on whatever field.  (unless, somehow, they overtake the Cards)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 24, 2015, 03:07:29 pm
Tommy LaStella is hitting .288 with .351 OBP and .793 OPS.  Small sample, but I think this is sort of the profile that they were looking for when they traded for him.  6K/5BB, a different kind of guy from most of the lineup.  His recent run of pinch hits is weird, I don't remember a Cub pinch hitter getting so many in such a cluster.  LaStella is just a spot player now, but with lots of club-control left, I could see him being a nice little bench fixture for a while. 

Also nice to see Soler getting some hits when he plays, and some HR's.  Got a chance to be really good hitter, if he can get some of his hard contact into the air enough to get over the wall. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 23, 2015, 02:16:10 pm
Len Kasper talks to Jonah Keri:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13719365

Chris - Thanks very much for posting this link. It was an interesting and fun listen.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 23, 2015, 03:19:18 am
Len Kasper talks to Jonah Keri:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13719365
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 22, 2015, 11:59:56 pm
Bryant now slugging .505, first time over .500 since April 24.

Bryant slugging over .600 since August 1.   
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 22, 2015, 10:57:12 pm
Can't you get your grandkids to set up a Facebook account for you?

Of course, that wouldn't solve the friend problem.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 22, 2015, 10:41:36 pm
That didn't have anything to do with your suggestion.
I have unfriended you at Facebook.  Well, if we were friends on Facebook, you would be unfriended.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 22, 2015, 10:03:20 pm
Cubs are now 89-62, 27 games over .500, on pace to win 96 games (rounding the decimal places).  Simply mind-boggling.



Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 22, 2015, 06:33:41 pm
That didn't have anything to do with your suggestion.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 22, 2015, 06:31:11 pm
heh, when I suggested that we'll need to trade for a third good starter the other day, I was scoffed at.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 22, 2015, 06:30:46 pm
I don't know, bullpen days seem to have been pretty good compared to Hammel and Hendricks lately.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 22, 2015, 06:25:45 pm
Not much difference these days between a Hammel or Hendricks start vs a "bullpen day" if you ask me.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 22, 2015, 05:57:08 pm
Several writers on Twitter are saying that Maddon told them he hasn't ruled out bullpen days during the playoffs. I think that's the way to go on non-Arrieta/Lester days.  Maybe not necessarily bullpen days...but just decide from day-to-day who matches up best out of Hammel, Hendricks, Wood, Cahill, and Richard.  Don't set the rotation beyond Arrieta and Lester.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 22, 2015, 04:23:39 pm
An article that discusses the physics of the video boards on Wrigley.  I long ago dumped by physics knowledge, but I found it interesting even though more data is needed. 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-physics-of-wind-at-the-remodeled-wrigley-field/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 22, 2015, 04:11:39 pm
Is that supposed to be in purple?

Duh
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 22, 2015, 03:47:22 pm
Is that supposed to be in purple?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 22, 2015, 03:34:18 pm
Reb - Surely you aren't suggesting that Cub fans might turn on Maddon if things don't go well.  We all know that would not happen.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 22, 2015, 03:20:16 pm
Maddon is a really good manager: flexible, intelligent, understands personalities, and cogent and smart with the media and fans. Think he really understands team psychology---sends messages effectively to players by what he says to media. Very cognizant that it's a 162 game season. Almost always watch portions of his post-games with media and he's uniformly impressive.

Just saying that, over time, long managerial tenures are the exceptions. Referenced his "act" in previous post with quotations to use as term of art---not to imply he's a phony or anything. Maddon has a very distinct schtick---as far away from a generic type manager imaginable. Heard that a few thought this was wearing thinner in Tampa late---not coincidentally during a less than stellar season. Unlikely to happen here, but there are always rumblings when a disappointing season comes.

Think Maddon is important part of the turnaround here. Lucky to have him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 22, 2015, 11:40:17 am
We'll see.  I totally agree that often a voice can get old after a while, and a new guy with a fresh voice can be beneficial.  Still, I wonder if Maddon might not perhaps have more staying power. 
1.  He was at Tampa for what, 9 years?  And seemed to sustain pretty well there.
2.  I think "tough guy" acts can wear thin after a while.  But I'm not sure more positive ones wear out as fast.
3.  Some of his stuff is perhaps rightly termed "an act", but I think there may be deeper enduring qualities that will sustain respect and trust.  Just being smart.  Loving the game.  Being cheerful.  Communicating well.  Being a good decision-maker, such that players tend to trust, for good reason.  Being consistently and perhaps sincerely pro-player, so that players don't distrust or come to think it's all a fake.  Being consistently pro-fun, so that players don't think he's a killjoy.  I think it's possible that he may be both respected and liked and trusted for a pretty long time.

I think a factor may also be the character of some of the lead players may be conducive to sustained success.  Rizzo, Arrieta, Lester, Russell, Bryant, Schwarber, there seems to be a core of guys who seem to be pretty self-motivated.  Not sure they totally need a domineering dictator manager to keep them motivated.  Maddon's not a big rules-guy; success and no-rules can be a problem for some guys, but there are indications that the Cubs could have a pretty strong clubhouse, and may not all fall victim to wine-women-and-song even after they experience success, fame and fortune. 

Good post, craig. Very much agree. Think most of what Joe does and says is just Joe (I'm sure some is contrived, but suspect not all that much).  Also think the front office emphasis on "character" is a factor as well.  And as much as people complain about Ross taking up a spot, I keep seeing/hearing people within or close to the team talk about how important he has been to this season. May not make much sense to us, but that doesn't really matter does it?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BearHit on September 22, 2015, 11:33:04 am
Name another manager who throws a PJ party after a No-No
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 22, 2015, 11:20:30 am
Yeah, the team morale effect or, put another way, the development of a winning culture, has been huge.  Maddon just seems to hit the right notes.

Maddon has the advantage of being new to the organization.  Think it's harder when he's been around awhile.  He has a very specific kind of "act" and sometimes stuff doesn't wear as well over time.  We'll see. ....Yeah, he's a genius---until the next disappointing Cubs season.  Then, he'll be a bum.

We'll see.  I totally agree that often a voice can get old after a while, and a new guy with a fresh voice can be beneficial.  Still, I wonder if Maddon might not perhaps have more staying power. 
1.  He was at Tampa for what, 9 years?  And seemed to sustain pretty well there.
2.  I think "tough guy" acts can wear thin after a while.  But I'm not sure more positive ones wear out as fast.
3.  Some of his stuff is perhaps rightly termed "an act", but I think there may be deeper enduring qualities that will sustain respect and trust.  Just being smart.  Loving the game.  Being cheerful.  Communicating well.  Being a good decision-maker, such that players tend to trust, for good reason.  Being consistently and perhaps sincerely pro-player, so that players don't distrust or come to think it's all a fake.  Being consistently pro-fun, so that players don't think he's a killjoy.  I think it's possible that he may be both respected and liked and trusted for a pretty long time.

I think a factor may also be the character of some of the lead players may be conducive to sustained success.  Rizzo, Arrieta, Lester, Russell, Bryant, Schwarber, there seems to be a core of guys who seem to be pretty self-motivated.  Not sure they totally need a domineering dictator manager to keep them motivated.  Maddon's not a big rules-guy; success and no-rules can be a problem for some guys, but there are indications that the Cubs could have a pretty strong clubhouse, and may not all fall victim to wine-women-and-song even after they experience success, fame and fortune. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Cubsin on September 21, 2015, 11:21:55 pm
71?  Did you go to school with Curt's grandson?

No, I think his grandson retired from teaching before I started kindergarden.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 21, 2015, 10:29:54 pm
I'm 71, and I've been a Cubs fan since I was nine.

71?  Did you go to school with Curt's grandson?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 21, 2015, 08:27:24 pm
I'm sorry to hear that your so ill, Cubsin.

You beat me  to it....
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 21, 2015, 06:05:35 pm
I'm sorry to hear that your so ill, Cubsin.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Cubsin on September 21, 2015, 06:02:34 pm
I'm 71, and I've been a Cubs fan since I was nine. I've endured around 40 or 50 losing seasons, but I can honestly say I never expect to see another one. I may or may not be around long enough to see the Cubs win the World Series, but they'll at least be in the hunt every year.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 21, 2015, 05:48:23 pm
"Then, he'll be a bum. "

That's why I cringe a bit at the over the top Maddon praise.   I remember "In Dusty We Trusty" until things fell apart.  And Hendry was the greatest GM in the world, until he made a couple of bad signs and trades.  McFail was praised early on.  Maddon has made mistakes this year; fortunately very few, and I do credit him with changing culture.  That was the most vital thing that had to happen.  A breath of fresh air over the first idiot Theocracy hired. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 21, 2015, 05:16:15 pm
I did not project the upward swing for Cubs.

My beef with some posters months ago was the lack of respect for the unpredictability of baseball, the history of surprising things that can happen, and the confidence some had that 2015 was just a trial for the future when the "real" Cubs rebuild would appear. "Nice to have a good 2015 but we won't win." One guy is still playing that line.


Who?

You really seem to be attacking a straw man.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 21, 2015, 03:44:23 pm
Yeah, the team morale effect or, put another way, the development of a winning culture, has been huge.  Maddon just seems to hit the right notes.

Latest example is the Cardinals series.  One day, Tony Soprano in Cards dugout and, next day, Cards know we can play with them and beat them.  Telling Cubs players, see, we're just as good as they are.  You, the players, have proved that.  Very calculated in boosting his own guys. Think Maddon deserves lots of credit for Castro adapting to his new role.

Maddon has the advantage of being new to the organization.  Think it's harder when he's been around awhile.  He has a very specific kind of "act" and sometimes stuff doesn't wear as well over time.  We'll see.

Uses the whole roster and makes good in-game decisions and he's always flexible. Doesn't care if he goes through his entire bench in 9 innings if thinks he can win game now. 

Yeah, he's a genius---until the next disappointing Cubs season.  Then, he'll be a bum.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 21, 2015, 02:37:57 pm
No way Ricky has this club where it is today.  Absolutely no way.  Maddon has been outstanding.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 21, 2015, 02:17:36 pm
I think it is interesting that the Astros have faded over the last month, while the Cubs have continued to play well.  Is it because of Maddon, I don't know how you prove it, but it sure seems that he has helped a lot.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 21, 2015, 02:14:44 pm
And a wonderful partnership between Maddon and Hoyerstein.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 21, 2015, 01:49:14 pm
A common discussion over the years has been how much difference a manager makes.  Common view has been very little, that it's all about the players and the talent. 

I can't prove it or quantify it, but I think this summer has really testified to how much value a good manager has. 
*The season has had it's ups and downs, but none of the downs have been really enduring.  Pressure, anxiety, failure can press down.  But it's seemed the team has never gotten too down; I think Maddon has been a great contributor.  I think team morale is huge, and Maddon seems to be a master.
*In-game strategy:  Some have questioned certain strategic in-game decisions; but I think they've tended to be really excellent.  Always logical. 
*Lineup construction/player-usage:  I think he's been a master, and super creative.  He's done a really good job, I think, in using guys in situations where they can succeed.  I think Maddon has been fantastic in using guys like Coghlan and Denorfia.  I think the Coghlan-at-2B move was incredibly effective.  What other manager would do that?  I think he's been terrific.  Handling Wood.  The flip of Rondon/Motte for a while when Rondon was out of sync, and then flipping back. 

Overall, I think he's just made so many good decisions, and kept the attitude so good, and enabled so many guys to contribute, it's really been a masterful job. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 21, 2015, 01:42:26 pm
Yeah, not lumping everybody into same package. But, think Cubs history combined with coming off 73 win season clouds some perceptions. It's human nature.  Wait 'till next year.

Not anymore.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 21, 2015, 01:25:28 pm
You were right, I and some others were wrong. 
That said, I don't think the "losing mindset baggage" is or was really driving the in-retrospect-faulty analysis back on June 30 for some.  At least for me, I don't think.  Many Cub fans are quite used to winning teams in other sports.  Blackhawks fans; fans where the Michael Jordan Bulls were always winning.  I'm not Chicago, but as a Wisconsin boy I totally expect the Packers to win.  So, not sure that some of us like P2 and I who back in June saw this as a nice "compete for the playoffs, but probably fall short" year, that our mistake was based on losing baggage.  I think we just underestimated the talent and the character/resilience and the ready-alreadiness of the team.  We knew there is unpredictability in baseball, but didn't expect so much lightning in a bottle. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 21, 2015, 01:09:44 pm
Forget Daury Torrez.  What was the Cubs equivalent of what the Tigers actually got for Price?  I expect that if I had it to do over again, I would have paid it.

There isn't a great analog to the Cubs system.

It would be roughly Baez/Torres (SS), Pierce Johnson, Tseng, but that might be a little light from the Cubs end.

I wish the Cubs would have done better than Haren at the deadline, but I'm ok with them holding onto their higher end and not trading them for rentals.  Overall I think the post-deadline deals have been done pretty well to strengthen some of the holes.  The 5th starter remains the weak point, but a lot of the guys I would have traded for have been awful too.  Only Happ has really done well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 21, 2015, 12:38:28 pm
I did not project the upward swing for Cubs.

My beef with some posters months ago was the lack of respect for the unpredictability of baseball, the history of surprising things that can happen, and the confidence some had that 2015 was just a trial for the future when the "real" Cubs rebuild would appear. "Nice to have a good 2015 but we won't win." One guy is still playing that line.

Cubs have 3rd best record in MLB. Unfortunate we have to play a one-and-out wild card game with that record but this is a really good club. Every single team, not just Cubs, has unfavorable odds to win it all. We know that.

Theo has said from day one going into 2015 that each season is important and Cubs players felt they could win it all. Some fans lagged behind because of the losing mindset baggage we all have. Said months ago that we should at least try to throw off that baggage and think like Yankees fans with that history. The lovable losers are dead, dead, dead. This is a new era. Time to think like winners.

Be Here Now.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 21, 2015, 12:25:33 pm
I think it was the equivalent of Daury Torrez AND Davep.   The Tigers balked at taking Davep.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 21, 2015, 12:23:48 pm
Forget Daury Torrez.  What was the Cubs equivalent of what the Tigers actually got for Price?  I expect that if I had it to do over again, I would have paid it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 21, 2015, 11:17:59 am
Just gotta keep the fun going as long as possible, and enjoy every opportunity they provide for us while it's here.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 21, 2015, 09:41:08 am
I thought the most likely scenario would be for the young Cubs to struggle with the pressure of contending, and for the Giants to get on a roll and finish ahead of them.  The Giants have been hampered by lots of injuries, but the poise and grit of the young Cubs have been a marvel to behold.  The flexibility of their roster has allowed Maddon to focus on optimizing matchups without compromising in a significant way the offense or defense.  And the spirit of the team seems to be sky high.  It has been truly remarkable.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BearHit on September 21, 2015, 09:25:01 am
Afraid of the Blue Kool-Aid?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 21, 2015, 09:16:36 am
craig - You did a good job of listing a lot of the things that went right. Can't imagine why do didn't expect all those things to happen. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 21, 2015, 08:43:31 am
I will admit that back around the all-star break, I didn't really think the Cubs were serious for this year.  A chance to get in?  Yes.  But I thought Giants and Nationals/Mets both had good chance to catch us.  I didn't think our offense was realistic, so I didn't think it was very strategic to spend really high for a rental.  The market for July pickups is always heavily seller-favored and buyer-disfavored, so I didn't really want to pay market price.  I thought Hamels or Tyson Ross or guys like that would cost Baez plus, etc.  So, given my doubts about the Cubs offense, and given how buyer-disfavored the July "market prices" are and are expected to be, I did not believe paying July-market price was wise. 

If I'd know what August and September were going to bring offense-wise, and had the crystal ball that Theo didn't have, I'd have certainly supported pushing harder and being more willing to pay July-market price, or perhaps a bit more, for a starter and/or a reliever. 

I was wrong, you were right. 

I didn't anticipate Fowler's fabulous turnaround.
I didn't anticipate that Schwarber would come up and be good.
I didn't anticipate that Bryant, who'd seemed to be struggling some and not hitting a lot of HR's, would click in and be hitting up around .270 now in late September. 
I didn't anticipate that Russell would hit a bunch of HR's.
I didn't anticipate that Baez would be competitive offensively this year.
I didnt' anticipate that Castro would get benched, or get a bunch of hits and some crucial HR's. 
I didn't anticipate conjuring up Cahill out of thin air and having him pitch really well.
I didn't anticipate converting Clayton Richard into a reliever and having him give us a bunch of effective outings. 
I didn't anticipate Chris Coghlan becoming the starting 2B during a historically successful month. 

I just didn't anticipate so many things going right.  It still seems almost too good to be true, too much improvement too quickly.  It's been really, really fun. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 21, 2015, 08:38:13 am
Game 7 of the 2003 NLCS may have been affected by a carryover from all that happened in game 6.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 21, 2015, 07:41:54 am
Not sure anyone on the 2003 team documented that feeling although Glanville and Karros might have, but DeRosa sure did for the 2008 team.  Dempster giving up the slam in the first and the whole team went into a daze.  It may be why a lot of ex-Cubs were passed over for jobs and a few were even released. 

The best thing that ever happened to that Red Sox team was going down 3-0 to the Yankees.  At that point that crew said to hell with it and just went out and played.  I think we've assembled a similar crew.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 21, 2015, 07:01:03 am
Maddon seems to have done a really good job at instilling the mindset of focusing on today's game and on playing every game the same.  I suspect that some of the vets have helped as well.  The much maligned David Ross has been given a lot of credit by people on, and close to, the team for his leadership role.  Up to this point the pressure of making the playoffs (and more) along with the fact of becoming one of the three best teams in baseball does not seem to have fazed the players. Pretty impressive, I think.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BullingersEars on September 21, 2015, 06:06:53 am
Still wish game 7 was anywhere but Wrigley in 2003...... That felt like a heavy situation.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 21, 2015, 02:32:55 am
This is true.  I was reading an article a few days ago suggesting that it might be better for the Cubs if the one game playoff was played at PNC rather than Wrigley.  The premise was that, since the fan base carries so much baggage, Wrigley might turn deathly quiet should the Pirates get out to an early lead.

I assume - and fervently hope - that Maddon and the team would dismiss that as absolute nonsense.

If I had a chance to say one thing to Cubs players it would be: just forget about every fan who has told you how much it would mean to them and their family to win a World Series. Cubs players don't need that baggage in the post-season. Would tell them to play for their teammates and themselves, not somebody's Aunt Ida who is waiting to arise from the dead when Cubs win it all.

None of that helps. Maybe a road game is preferable. Hard to say.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 20, 2015, 09:12:36 pm
You may think that 2015 will be the only chance the Cubs have to get to the world series.  I don't.  I would rather have a reasonable chance for a dynasty than a 6.5 percent chance to win the world series once.  Increasing the chances to 9.5 doesn't impress me very much.

But go ahead.  Play to the jury.

Says something about your interpretive skills to read my post and conclude that I may be saying 2015 is Cubs only chance to get to World Series.

I had left the Torrez-Price nonsense alone for good weeks ago but today you topped yourself with the silliness in this topic and the absurd distortion in the other thread about what I've said about Schwarber/Bryant. Don't like to get personal but words and phrases have a meaning and you don't respect that. You should try harder.



Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 20, 2015, 09:11:00 pm
Torrez has a low arm slot, so Arguella has speculated that he might make a nice reliever. I would certainly trade Torrez for 2 months of Price, but the cost for Price was significantly higher and would have hurt the Cubs future so it seems to not really matter all that much.

Tico since Boras is the agent for Bryant/Russell/Arrieta I don't think we have to worry about signing them to extensions. It might be possible for Schwarber and Baez, but I don't think they would be that much higher than Rizzo or Castro to do. Soler would be pretty expensive, just because of how his contract is set up.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: goblue007 on September 20, 2015, 09:00:18 pm
I appreciate your optimism, sir.

Not that this hypothetical was ever possible and not to belabor the idea of it any more...I just don't see Daury Torres contributing to any prospective dynasty versus a David Price (even as a rental)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 20, 2015, 08:45:14 pm
You may think that 2015 will be the only chance the Cubs have to get to the world series.  I don't.  I would rather have a reasonable chance for a dynasty than a 6.5 percent chance to win the world series once.  Increasing the chances to 9.5 doesn't impress me very much.

But go ahead.  Play to the jury.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on September 20, 2015, 08:42:45 pm
...losing mentality of some Cubs fans can affect us all in strange ways.

This is true.  I was reading an article a few days ago suggesting that it might be better for the Cubs if the one game playoff was played at PNC rather than Wrigley.  The premise was that, since the fan base carries so much baggage, Wrigley might turn deathly quiet should the Pirates get out to an early lead.

I assume - and fervently hope - that Maddon and the team would dismiss that as absolute nonsense.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 20, 2015, 08:08:39 pm

.....I have no doubt that every other GM in the country would make that trade.  I wouldn't.

Granted, in the history of human endeavors, the occasional oddball rowing against the tide turns out to be the true visionary.

This is not one of those cases.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 20, 2015, 08:00:35 pm
Cmon man...a hundred Daury Torres couldn't land David Price.

Dave is serious about no Daury Torrez for David Price.  Has nothing to do with anybody's evaluation of Torrez as a prospect but rather an almost pathological mindset about deferring 2015 for future seasons.

Granted, possible it's just a weird stubborness mixed with a smidgen of temporary stupidity on this one matter, but losing mentality of some Cubs fans can affect us all in strange ways.

Consider this: is it possible 2015 is Cubs best shot at World Series winner if can get past wild card game? Future seasons may have unexpected setbacks, who knows. Following the Nats in recent seasons--the unexpected can happen. This 2015 club has jelled with Maddon magic. Maybe his act wears out in near future, who knows. And, 2015 club has been lucky good health compared to many other clubs. Baseball is unpredictable.

Dave can wait for Russell and Soler and Baez to get to majors in 2016 and Schwarber in 2017 and hold on to Daury Torrez forever, but I'm kind of having fun in 2015.

Be Here Now.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 20, 2015, 07:58:06 pm
It is not that I value Torrez so highly.  It is that I value a two month rental so little.

I have no doubt that every other GM in the country would make that trade.  I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 20, 2015, 07:41:42 pm
Let's test that.  I would not trade a valuable future piece for Price.  That is under the assumption that the Cubs will not sign price either as a free agent or as a "home team discount".

The Cubs have at best a 6.25 percent chance to win the world series IF you assume that they are equal in talent to the other teams they will face.  Price MIGHT raise that to 10 percent.

No, I would not make that trade today.  Perhaps because I value Torrez more than you seem to.

Theo, every GM in the game, everyone else on this board, the entire Ricketts family, and Daury Torrez's mother would all make that trade, even if it was an absolute certainty Price would be nothing more than a rental and the Cubs would not resign him.

I had thought there was some confusion from you at the time and that you meant Gleyber Torres, but if you meant Daury Torrez, you may be the only one on the planet who values him that highly.



I am NOT ignorant.


Hmmmmmmm......
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: goblue007 on September 20, 2015, 06:39:26 pm
Cmon man...a hundred Daury Torres couldn't land David Price.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 20, 2015, 06:04:29 pm
Well, let's test that.

Can you explain why you didn't want to trade Daury Torrez for David Price before the trade deadline? Do you have a different view now, in retrospect?

Let's test that.  I would not trade a valuable future piece for Price.  That is under the assumption that the Cubs will not sign price either as a free agent or as a "home team discount".

The Cubs have at best a 6.25 percent chance to win the world series IF you assume that they are equal in talent to the other teams they will face.  Price MIGHT raise that to 10 percent.

No, I would not make that trade today.  Perhaps because I value Torrez more than you seem to.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 20, 2015, 06:00:35 pm
Agree that it's unlikely, but think his defensive skill set, which is at least solid average at 3B, *might* actually profile better in CF.

Although Bryant has very good speed for a six foot five slugger, I don't think he has the exceptional speed that is desirable in a center fielder.  I think that if he goes to the outfield, it will be as a corner outfielder, right field if Soler fails, or left field if Soler performs well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 20, 2015, 05:57:43 pm
Many on the board, mid-season, were very, very skeptical that Cubs would be serious contenders for WS. Let's be real about that.

Again - most were NOT skeptical that the Cubs would be serious contenders for WS, but rather that the odds of that happening would not be increased enough by the acquisition of two months of ANYBODY to justify the probably cost.  What actually was said was that in order to make it, several of the young players on the team would have to play extremely well, and if that happened, Price wouldn't improve their chances by very much.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 20, 2015, 05:55:49 pm
Well, let's test that.

Can you explain why you didn't want to trade Daury Torrez for David Price before the trade deadline? Do you have a different view now, in retrospect?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 20, 2015, 05:51:02 pm
Dave, you ignorant slut...

I am NOT ignorant.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 20, 2015, 01:57:31 pm
Keep in mind that Bryant has caught 2 flyballs as a CFer in his career.

He is athletic, so can adapt on the field. But, Bryant in CF and Schwarber in LF covering 2/3 of the OF? Hard to feel good about that.

Before season, said that test for Bryant at 3B would be whether he could be solid average at 3B. Think he has reached that level. He is super valuable as a 3B at that level. Would leave well enough alone.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on September 20, 2015, 01:40:56 pm
Yes, CF is " higher" in defensive spectrum than 3B. But, moving a guy--Bryant--to CF is what defensive spectrum principles frown on. Bryant can fill in there, sure. Defensive spectrum doesn't speak to fill-in situations but to a regular basis for a significant period of time.

Think it is very, very unlikely that Bryant is Cubs regular CF in 2016.

Agree that it's unlikely, but think his defensive skill set, which is at least solid average at 3B, *might* actually profile better in CF.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 20, 2015, 01:37:10 pm
Many on the board, mid-season, were very, very skeptical that Cubs would be serious contenders for WS. Let's be real about that.

Dave even said he wouldn't trade Daury Torrez for David Price because Cubs were too remote a WS shot and giving up Daury Torrez for David Price compromised the future!! Naturally, the worst offender for minimizing Cubs In 2016 is the guy patting himself on the back now. Predictable.

Guessing Theo is a bit pleasantly surprised. Also guessing Theo would have done more, and given up a bit more to upgrade at trade deadline had he possessed crystal ball. Maybe Jepsen from Rays instead of Tommy Hunter or Leake from Reds instead of Haren.

Hammel has been good this season overall but lately he sucks. In a 7-game series, he gets two starts. Worried about that.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 20, 2015, 01:19:35 pm
Yes, CF is " higher" in defensive spectrum than 3B. But, moving a guy--Bryant--to CF is what defensive spectrum principles frown on. Bryant can fill in there, sure. Defensive spectrum doesn't speak to fill-in situations but to a regular basis for a significant period of time.

Think it is very, very unlikely that Bryant is Cubs regular CF in 2016.

Baez might be a better 3B than Bryant. Not sure about that because we've seen Baez at 3B so little, but probably. But, would anticipate that because he's a good SS and 2B. So, would expect that. But, his value is middle IF. Could Baez play adequate CF? Perhaps, but not going to happen on a regular basis. The guy is a natural IFer and a good one.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 20, 2015, 01:12:11 pm
I like Hendricks quite a bit, but I'd like him even more if he were my #5 starter.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 20, 2015, 12:36:42 pm
My preference would be to trade prospects for a young starter with at least three years of control left.  After everything that has happened in New York lately, I bet there's a lot of talk about Matt Harvey and the Cubs this offseason. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on September 20, 2015, 12:17:15 pm
Yep, that would be my plan if I were GM. As I look at the FA pitching class, lots of mid-tier guys could could do really good work for a hell of a lot less than the $250MM that Price is going to get.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on September 20, 2015, 12:06:15 pm
I know Hammel has been a disappointment recently, but the truth of the matter is that he's basically been a league average starter. He's fine as a #3. Arrieta, Lester, Hammel is just fine 1, 2, 3. Hendricks is great as a #4. Price would be nice, but I'd rather make sure we can lock up our youngsters to long term deals.

If there's money for a FA TORP AND long term contracts for Russell, Bryant, etc., great. Otherwise save the money for the kids.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 20, 2015, 12:02:04 pm
I'm not sure who's missing the point anymore.  Too many straw men and misquotes and misunderstandings.  I don't recall anyone saying we should trade one of our top prospects for a Haren type pitcher.  And when I say that probably someone gets traded this winter, I'm just going on what Theo says about using assets to obtain pitching rather than hitting.  The goal, I thought, was not just to be good enough to make the playoffs but to be dominant.  Clearly the signs are there that we are approaching that level, but I doubt the front office is going to stand pat.  Most teams that stand pat start to struggle.

Talk about misquotes and misunderstandings....  No one has suggested standing pat.  Many have argued against trading high ceiling, potential high impact players or prospects for players in return would only marginally increase present chances of winning.  I also expect moves this winter, and possibly even of high current value talent of high ceiling prospects or high ceiling young players who have not yet come close to reaching their potential, but I expect any trades of high ceiling young players to bring very high returns.  And absent a very high return, I would expect the high value current players, and the high ceiling young players or prospects all to return.  Moves around the margins and acquisitions without giving up any core player or potential building block players are not necessarily standing pat.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 20, 2015, 11:56:17 am
Management will need to think about how their starters stack up for the playoffs where a couple of dominant starters wins out over more depth but less dominance.  If they think that Arrieta and Lester are sufficient, then adding a Price is not efficient use of resources.  If they feel another top starter is needed, Price would make sense.

With the Cub offense promising to be top tier, a third #1/2 starter is probably not they way to go.  IMO.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 20, 2015, 11:40:34 am
Dave, you ignorant slut...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 20, 2015, 11:39:28 am
I'm not sure who's missing the point anymore.  Too many straw men and misquotes and misunderstandings.  I don't recall anyone saying we should trade one of our top prospects for a Haren type pitcher.  And when I say that probably someone gets traded this winter, I'm just going on what Theo says about using assets to obtain pitching rather than hitting.  The goal, I thought, was not just to be good enough to make the playoffs but to be dominant.  Clearly the signs are there that we are approaching that level, but I doubt the front office is going to stand pat.  Most teams that stand pat start to struggle.

Speaking of straw men, I don't think that anyone has said that the Cubs should stand pat.

I fully expect the Cubs to make trades this winter, and I fully expect that they will sign free agents.

The decision is not between standing pat and trading their best prospects.  The decision is whether the cost in terms of prospects or money is worth the value received for the prospects or money.  In MY opinion (I am not predicting what this front office will do, merely what I would do), the cost of Price on the open market will be greater than the value he adds to the team.  I believe it is better for the team to add two or three Hammel type starters than one Price for the same money.  And I believe it is better to add a couple of Hammel type starters than to trade Russell for Syndergaard (you won't get him for Castro or Baez.

The Cubs should certainly try to get better.  No one is arguing that.  The question is how best to do that.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 20, 2015, 11:29:44 am
My thought on Bryant in CF is that all of Baez, Russell, and yes, Castro, are probably better IF defenders than Bryant, all things considered. Baez simply has better instincts and athleticism, Russell is a great choice at SS, and Bryant just isn't a 2B, while Castro can be. Meanwhile, Bryant has good speed and a good arm, meaning that, in theory, he could play a good CF. From a defensive value perspective, good CF defense is worth at least as much, if not more than, good 3B defense. Moving Bryant to CF doesn't diminish his "value-potential." In fact, it may actually enhance it.
I've been impressed with him in the OF.  With his speed, if they worked him in CF next spring, I think he would star.  If they re-sign Fowler, that's okay with me, too.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on September 20, 2015, 11:28:04 am
My thought on Bryant in CF is that all of Baez, Russell, and yes, Castro, are probably better IF defenders than Bryant, all things considered. Baez simply has better instincts and athleticism, Russell is a great choice at SS, and Bryant just isn't a 2B, while Castro can be. Meanwhile, Bryant has good speed and a good arm, meaning that, in theory, he could play a good CF. From a defensive value perspective, good CF defense is worth at least as much, if not more than, good 3B defense. Moving Bryant to CF doesn't diminish his "value-potential." In fact, it may actually enhance it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 20, 2015, 11:23:31 am
Paul Sullivan has an article on Theo's organization-building that has a glaring mistake that typifies the smart-ass sensationalist tendencies of Sullivan.

Snubbing Ryno: After dismissing manager Mike Quade with a year left on his two-year deal, Epstein said in a news release the Cubs would seek a replacement with major-league coaching or managing experience.

That meant snubbing popular Cubs Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg, then the Triple-A Iowa manager. It was a signal the Cubs were not going to make moves to appease longtime fans.

Sandberg left the organization and went on to manage the Phillies before resigning in July after lasting less than two years.

In reality, Sandberg joined the Phillies as their AAA manager for the 2011 season after Quade was picked by Hendry, before Theo joined the Cubs.  You'd think that Sullivan (who was beat writer covering the Cubs then, I believe) would have known that, or at least would have looked it up before making the claim.  Well, you'd think that if you weren't very familiar with his history.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 20, 2015, 11:09:23 am
I'm not sure who's missing the point anymore.  Too many straw men and misquotes and misunderstandings.  I don't recall anyone saying we should trade one of our top prospects for a Haren type pitcher.  And when I say that probably someone gets traded this winter, I'm just going on what Theo says about using assets to obtain pitching rather than hitting.  The goal, I thought, was not just to be good enough to make the playoffs but to be dominant.  Clearly the signs are there that we are approaching that level, but I doubt the front office is going to stand pat.  Most teams that stand pat start to struggle.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 20, 2015, 10:53:04 am
Yeah, Cubs not odds on favorite to win WS. Think some here have been so worried about COMPROMISING THE FUTURE that it must be a shock to realize Cubs actually have legit shot at World Series RIGHT NOW. Just try to enjoy it. Next year will still come.

Be Here Now.

You missed the point.  Those who were so worried about compromising the future felt that it was not necessary to do so in order to have a legitimate shot this year.  And they were right.  The future was not compromised, and they, as you say, have a legitimate shot at the world series RIGHT NOW.

It would have been foolish to trade Castro or Baez in order to increase their odds from 15 to 1 against down to 14 to 1 against.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 20, 2015, 08:22:46 am
I'm just awestruck at how quickly this team has come together.  I guess as manager of the low budget Rays, Maddon perfected the ability to take a bunch of young guys and get them to quickly learn how to become winners.  Man has that skill paid off for the Cubs in spades.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 20, 2015, 08:17:22 am
Yeah, it turns out the Cubs are virtually certain to be in the playoffs and are playing well enough and with enough confidence to have a legitimate shot at going very deep in the playoffs (fingers and toes crossed).  Without compromising the future.  Not even one iota.   ;)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 20, 2015, 12:33:44 am
Yeah, Cubs not odds on favorite to win WS. Think some here have been so worried about COMPROMISING THE FUTURE that it must be a shock to realize Cubs actually have legit shot at World Series RIGHT NOW. Just try to enjoy it. Next year will still come.

Be Here Now.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Eastcoastfan on September 19, 2015, 10:10:58 pm
Rodney also looks like he is on the cusp of being very good.  If he could just control his fastball a little better.  His change up is still deadly.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 19, 2015, 09:48:06 pm
Wood/Cahill has worked out really well so far.  Very creative how Joe has used the pen this year.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on September 19, 2015, 08:57:45 pm
I mentioned Cahill in another post.  I really think the Cubs should stretch him out into a starter.  Right now, I'd rather let Cahill take the ball in a playoff game than any of the 3 Hs. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 19, 2015, 08:04:07 pm

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo  2h2 hours ago
Trevor Cahill, w/ chamngeup, has 11.2 4 2 2 3 14 line in September. Hey, Cubs tried to get Rich Hill, but Bosox folks who knew him balked
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 19, 2015, 06:41:48 pm
HUGE game tomorrow...actually worth TWO games vs the Cards.  We won, trail by 4.  They win, trail by 6.

GO Cubs!!!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 19, 2015, 06:12:02 pm
With Castro hitting again (and playing a pretty good 2B) and Baez looking like he could be a good offensive player (as well as very good defensively at 3 infield positions), the Cubs have a really dangerous lineup, especially if Soler gets on a roll.  With Montero in the lineup, there could be a solid threat in 8 spots of the lineup.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 19, 2015, 05:38:41 pm
Assuming that the Cubs are just as good as the teams they play, here are the odds of going to the world series.

Winning the single game playoff - 50 percent.

Winning the single game playoff and winning the first playoff series - 25 percent.

Winning the single game playoff and winning the two playoff series - 12.5 percent.

In other words, assuming that the Cubs are as good as the others, the odds are 7 to 1 that they will not play in the world series this year.

The odds of their winning the world series are 15 to 1 against them.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 19, 2015, 05:03:08 pm
Now I worry that we're peaking too early and the Cardinals and Pirates will come out of their momentary swoons in time for the playoffs
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 19, 2015, 05:00:34 pm
I was pretty sure that this team was going to be a lot of fun to watch this year.  But I really had no idea ...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 19, 2015, 10:43:16 am
I think during the steroid era that would be a defensible position. Pitchers where at a premium. It isn't like the Cubs aren't trying to develop pitchers either, they just aren't using first round picks to do it. I would much rather have a team built on bats though.
He said that in the past, but the belief is still there.  Good luck with that, Andy.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 19, 2015, 10:33:49 am
Buster Onley's podcast on Friday had an interesting interview with Bryant and Rizzo at the end, the beginning dealt with Kang's injury and it was a good listen as well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 19, 2015, 09:46:31 am
Kris Bryant having fun driving something besides baseballs.  Pretty cool.

http://www.bleachernation.com/2015/09/18/kris-bryant-drives-for-lyft-surprises-folks-with-awesomeness/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 19, 2015, 09:34:14 am
http://www.bleachernation.com/2015/09/18/kris-bryant-drives-for-lyft-surprises-folks-with-awesomeness/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 19, 2015, 07:11:59 am
From ESPN:
[MacPhail has an overall reputation as a pitcher hunter, and in the past, he's been quoted as saying, "Buy the bats. Grow the arms." John Manuel of Baseball America, who spoke with Salisbury about the pitchers that could be waiting for the Phillies next June, projected Florida's A.J. Puk and high school duo Jason Groome and Riley Pint to make up the top three pitchers in next year's draft class.]

What I found interesting is that is the opposite of what Theo has stated.

I think during the steroid era that would be a defensible position. Pitchers where at a premium. It isn't like the Cubs aren't trying to develop pitchers either, they just aren't using first round picks to do it. I would much rather have a team built on bats though.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 19, 2015, 05:21:21 am
From ESPN:
[MacPhail has an overall reputation as a pitcher hunter, and in the past, he's been quoted as saying, "Buy the bats. Grow the arms."

What I found interesting is that is the opposite of what Theo has stated.

I wonder which one has the better track record....
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 19, 2015, 12:20:36 am
Giants lose, so the irrelevant magic number is down to 7.

The relevant magic numbers are 17 (finish ahead of the Pirates for the top wild card) and 22 (finish ahead of the Cardinals for the division).  Hopefully, they're 13 and 18 by the end of the weekend.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 19, 2015, 12:00:58 am
From ESPN:
[MacPhail has an overall reputation as a pitcher hunter, and in the past, he's been quoted as saying, "Buy the bats. Grow the arms." John Manuel of Baseball America, who spoke with Salisbury about the pitchers that could be waiting for the Phillies next June, projected Florida's A.J. Puk and high school duo Jason Groome and Riley Pint to make up the top three pitchers in next year's draft class.]

What I found interesting is that is the opposite of what Theo has stated.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 18, 2015, 11:50:42 pm
Cubs playoff odds are at 100.0% on Fangraphs, and the odds of anyone but the Cubs, Pirates, or Cardinals winning a wild card spot is 0.0%:

http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.asp

But there's still a 6.5% chance the Cardinals will be a wild card, with the Cubs or Pirates taking the division title.  Let's cheer for that.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Eastcoastfan on September 18, 2015, 11:18:37 pm
Javier Baez will be 23 on December 1.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 18, 2015, 11:11:20 pm
I agree that if Baez reverts to his old style of swinging from his heels on every pitch, he will do poorly.  If he continues to implement his new technique, he may well be a super star.

Prediction?  I have no idea which will prevail.  But I think it is well worth the Cubs while to keep him for a while to try to find out.  He has the talent to be one of the best in baseball.  Many in the past have had that talent, and failed to perform up to it.  But there are so few like that out there, it is best to see if he can make it big.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 18, 2015, 11:07:38 pm
The Royals lost tonight, so now the Cubs have the same record as the Royals.  That means the Cubs are tied for the third best record in baseball...and they also have the third best record in the NL Central.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 18, 2015, 09:44:12 pm
I find Baez nearly impossible to predict. Is he going to be happy being a 20-homer player when has the power for twice that many? At some point he's likely to revert to what's natural for him. Then we'll see if he can hit enough to be productive.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 18, 2015, 08:52:56 pm
Nor is he going to be a .169 hitter.  I would hope we could agree on that.

I would be perfectly happy with a 280 hitter with 20 HRs.  and I think that is not an unreasonable expectation.  Combine that with gold glove defense at second or third base and you have a perpetual all star.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 18, 2015, 08:25:49 pm
Baez isn't going to be a .320 hitter. I would hope we could all at least agree on that.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 18, 2015, 08:05:29 pm
Striking out at 28 percent of at bats is SUBSTANTIALLY less than last year.

Batting average of .320 is SUBSTANTIALLY higher than last year.

His walk rate is not much lower than last year.

His fielding has been gold glove caliber at two positions.

Certainly a tiny sample size, but if he keeps this up, I can wait for the power to come back.

Agree. If Baez "tracks" at .313 BA,   .353 OBP, .438 SLG, .790 OPS (his stats in limited ABs since coming back), with excellent middle inf (and 3B) defense, I'd be pretty pleased with that.  Even though I too expect his power will come.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 18, 2015, 07:58:10 pm
Striking out at 28 percent of at bats is SUBSTANTIALLY less than last year.

Batting average of .320 is SUBSTANTIALLY higher than last year.

His walk rate is not much lower than last year.

His fielding has been gold glove caliber at two positions.

Certainly a tiny sample size, but if he keeps this up, I can wait for the power to come back.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 18, 2015, 07:19:53 pm
Baez is tracking like he did at Iowa after the "adjustments". More contact though still plenty of K's, few walks, better average, reduced game power.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 18, 2015, 07:07:44 pm
It is an outstanding situation to be in.

There has never been much question about Castro's talent.  He hurt his value by a couple of bad years, and has helped his value with his close last year and this year.  In addition, Baez is looking like he might be as good as we dreamed he would be, but seems to be on the upswing.  Offense not as good so far, but defense, just about everywhere he plays has been outstanding. 

The best thing about the team right now is the versatility it gives.  Bryant is adequate at third base, but is also adequate in both corner outfield positions.  Russell is looking better every day at short, but also did well at second, and could also probably play a couple of other positions.  Right now, I would like to see the Cubs begin next year with the following position players.

1B Rizzo
2B Castro
SS Russell
3B Bryant
LF Soler
CF Baez
RF Coghlan
C   Schwarber

If they can bring in a good pitcher in trade for Montero, do so.  If not, move Schwarber to LF for a year and try to trade Coghlan.

And sign a couple of MOR free agent pitchers and a couple of good relievers.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 18, 2015, 05:49:27 pm
Another reason to not give up on Starlin (unless we get a sure-thing SP with real upside in return) is that, if we do say goodbye to Starlin, he will almost certainly end up in a Cardinal uniform within a year or two...whereupon he would hit 30 bombs and have about a .950 OPS...and be great in the field!

He looks like our everyday 2B to me...and, every year, you have to assume guys will get injured.  This year we've been pretty fortunate with relatively few injuries.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 18, 2015, 04:57:26 pm
yep, Don (Groove) Baylor...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 18, 2015, 04:56:43 pm
Eh, should have known.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 18, 2015, 04:55:44 pm
Don Baylor?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: mO on September 18, 2015, 04:54:38 pm
Groove
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 18, 2015, 04:54:27 pm
Bonds?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 18, 2015, 04:53:03 pm
Rizzo is 1 HBP away from joining the 30/30 (HR/HBP) club.

Name the only other member...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 18, 2015, 04:35:30 pm
Leaving him off the roster for the first game isn't to save him for the NLDS.  It is to add a position player that might be of more value than the extremely unlikely situation in which Arrieta wakes up with the flu.  If Arrieta is ineffective in the first few innings, a hitter would likely help more than Lester anyway.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Cubsin on September 18, 2015, 04:00:10 pm
The Wild Card loser goes home. If Arrieta is ill, injured or ineffective, Lester would replace him. There's no point saving him for the NLDS if we don't win the Wild Card game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 18, 2015, 03:47:44 pm
I think it is great that Castro is increasing his trade value.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: chgojhawk on September 18, 2015, 03:46:38 pm
Can we do that Starlin Castro poll again?  I wonder if the responses would be different.  He has been fantastic lately.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 18, 2015, 01:35:46 pm
The real reason for rostering Lester is so he could be used as a pinch hitter (he's arguablyl one of the team's best bunters it seems) or pinch runner (other pitchers would not throw over to 1B as professional courtesy).   ;)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 18, 2015, 12:49:24 pm
What happens if Arrieta goes 3 innings and the game is rained out?  Who goes the next day?  What if Arrieta wakes up with the flu?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 18, 2015, 12:33:05 pm
You need another starter on the roster in case something happens to your first starter pre-game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 18, 2015, 12:27:25 pm
I see no need to roster Lester for the wildcard game.  He would be the last guy used as he will start the NLDS 2 days later.

Good point. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on September 18, 2015, 12:19:55 pm
I see no need to roster Lester for the wildcard game.  He would be the last guy used as he will start the NLDS 2 days later.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on September 18, 2015, 11:53:44 am
Ron, I liked that article too.  But I think Theo is misremembering when he says: “
He came out on the road with us to four games, and it seemed like we won every one of them on a walk-off hit."

It may have -seemed- like that, but it's been about 130 years since a road team could win on a walk-on hit.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Cubsin on September 18, 2015, 11:30:30 am
For the wild card game roster, I'd have Arrieta, Lester, Grimm, Strop, Rondon, Wood, Cahill, Rodney and Richard as my only pitchers, with Montero, Schwarber, Ross, Rizzo, Castro, Russell, Baez, La Stella, Herrera, Bryant, Fowler, Jackson, Soler, Coghlan, Denorfia and Szczur as my position players. That's everybody on the current roster, except for the remaining pitchers.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 18, 2015, 10:22:55 am
If Soler performs he'll be on the roster.  I think Jackson will be kept over Denofria.  I would likely keep LaStella over Rosscup too.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 18, 2015, 10:21:58 am
I wonder what Maddon will do with the pitching this weekend and tomorrow.  Both of his "long men", Wood and Richard, were used yesterday.  Maybe reliever Wood could be ready enough for another two innings on Saturday? 

I assume Cahill will start?  He's been good thus far, so stands to reason he's probably due to get killed.  :) 

With Haren going today, and then a weird reliever-filled game tomorrow, could be a couple of rough days.  I suppose the flip is that Cardinals really haven't been that good offensively, so might not take great work by the bullpen to possibly stay in one or both of the games. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Eastcoastfan on September 18, 2015, 09:29:51 am
Great read, Ron.  And how awesome is that first picture?!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 18, 2015, 08:57:34 am
That article on Theo was very enjoyable.  Thanks, Ron.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 18, 2015, 08:51:00 am
Soler will be determined in the last couple weeks.  I don't think I'd keep Austin Jackson over Soler.  I think LaStella has more value than Jackson, Rosscup, or Cahill.  I only list Rosscup because Maddon doesn't seem to want to use him anyhow.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 18, 2015, 08:47:48 am
I would exchange Rosscup for Soler.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on September 18, 2015, 08:45:37 am
I was thinking about the playoff roster and wondered which direction the Cubs will go with a a few guys.  Most of the slots are set but at the back end of the bench and bullpen there are a few question marks.  I would love to have Berry's speed as a late game pinch runner. I am assuming the NLDS roster would lose Haren.   The NLDS schedule has only one offday so unless you bring back Lester on three days rest you will need a 4th starter to pitch game 3.  My guess is Lester, Hammel, Arrietta and then depending on where the series is Hendricks (on a very short leash) or Lester on 3 days rest.  So who do you put on your playoff roster?  Here is mine:

PITCHERS:
Jake Arrieta
Trevor Cahill
Justin Grimm
Jason Hammel
Kyle Hendricks
Jon Lester
Clayton Richard
Fernando Rodney
Hector Rondon
Zac Rosscup
Pedro Strop
Travis Wood

CATCHERS:
Miguel Montero
David Ross
Kyle Schwarber

INFIELDERS:
Javier Baez
Kris Bryant
Starlin Castro
Anthony Rizzo
Addison Russell

OUTFIELDERS
Chris Coghlan
Chris Denorfia
Dexter Fowler
Austin Jackson
Quintin Berry

I left Soler and LaStella off the roster because of the glut of infielders and wanting Berry available as a late inning pinch runner. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: OkieCubsFan on September 17, 2015, 11:11:33 pm
Despite all the K's, Bryant's within .004 of taking over Rizzo for the top BA on the team, save Javy Baez's small sample size .313.  He's been as good as advertised. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 17, 2015, 06:58:37 pm
Thanks, Ron, nice article. 

ben has always been a big top-end philosophy guy, and I admit I've not really been.  My perspective has tended to be that the team is the composite of a bunch of individual scouting decisions, and if through a combination of wisdom and luck a favorable ratio turn out right, and a few turn out awesome, you can build a winner. 

What's striking to me is the degree of consistency management has had.  Very few of their decisions have turned out badly, and very many have turned out well. 

The list of "worst decisions" is very small and modest in magnitude:  Edwin Jackson, Jose Veras, LeMahieu/Stewart.  Maybe I'm forgetting some, but if those are the worst moves, that's pretty remarkable. 

What's also striking is how low the prospect failure rate has been.  OK, Jackson and Vitters, they failed.  But of the guys they drafted or acquired, last year before last season began, we'd have listed Bryant, Baez, Soler, and Almora as the big four, and then by July would have added Schwarber and Russell.  We're all trained to assume that prospects have a serious attrition rate; but somehow five of six are already variably good major league players, and Almora's second-half surge suggests he may become a variably useful guy in time as well.  Six guys, no busts?  Remarkable.  (OK, maybe that's hindsight, and maybe Alcantara and Edwards should be in that list from back then....).

Failure-avoidance is one thing.  But you need some big talent creations as well.  The Rizzo trade, and the creation of Samardzija and Rondon were huge. 

Perhaps some luck helps?  By many accounts they'd have taken Appel over Bryant.  By many accounts they tried extensively and made reasonably competitive offers for Garza; Samardzija; and Annibel Sanchez.  The budget and the landscape might look very different if you replaced Bryant, Lester, and Grimm with Appel, Garza, Samardz, and Sanchez.   

But they've really put together a successful series of moves.   
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 17, 2015, 06:52:50 pm
In the moment of the game, most of the people who post in Today's Game are head cases.  Anyone expecting it to be otherwise is probably also a head case.

DelMarFan
40-year fan of the Chicago Cubs
Head Case
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 17, 2015, 06:20:12 pm
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This site has a map of the US that shows what game you will see in more detail.  Scroll to the very bottom.


http://506sports.com/ (http://506sports.com/)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 17, 2015, 05:44:34 pm
An article on Theo & the Cubs worth reading.

http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/theo-epstein-cubs-playoffs-in-reach/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=4254394&utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20SportsWorld&utm_tags%20=srm%5Bsport%20%E2%80%93%20mlb%2Ccontent%20-%20text-based%5D (http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/theo-epstein-cubs-playoffs-in-reach/?utm_network=facebook&utm_post=4254394&utm_source=FB%20-%20NBC%20SportsWorld&utm_tags%20=srm%5Bsport%20%E2%80%93%20mlb%2Ccontent%20-%20text-based%5D)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: mO on September 17, 2015, 05:42:44 pm
Yeah, you really shouldn't care.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on September 17, 2015, 05:26:58 pm
No you wouldnt have.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 17, 2015, 05:24:32 pm
If I'd have known how much that description was going to hurt your feelings I would've used a different one.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 17, 2015, 05:00:51 pm
Arrieta the head case.

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-jake-arrieta-will-keep-being-perfectionist
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on September 17, 2015, 12:06:48 pm
Would be good to have 7 or 8 lower pressure games to get little used guys some reps.  Ramirez hasn't been used in weeks.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 17, 2015, 11:22:52 am
Only by a meteor...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 17, 2015, 11:15:20 am
If Wrigley is destroyed, we know who to blame.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 17, 2015, 11:11:25 am
Just for Fun

If the Cubs go 2-15, the Giants have to go 10-6 (.625)

If the Cubs go 8-9, the Giants have to go 16-1 (.941)

If the Cubs go 10-7 (.588), the Giants are done.

We are rapidly moving into a meteor hitting and destroying Wrigley Field being more likely than the Cubs not being in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 17, 2015, 10:57:53 am
And if we make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 17, 2015, 10:57:40 am
I think he'll be on the playoff roster if he's healthy.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 17, 2015, 10:30:29 am
I assume that whether or not Soler is on the playoff roster will depend upon how he performs in the last weeks of the season.  With the lead the Cubs have, I think he will get a lot of playing time to show if he is rusty or not.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 17, 2015, 09:13:28 am
Quote from: Bruce Miles
The Cubs are keeping left-handed pitcher Eric Jokisch and catcher Taylor Teagarden active in Arizona in case either is needed. If the Cubs clinch a playoff spot relatively early, Jokisch could get a start in the final days of the season.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 17, 2015, 08:10:15 am
I knew I was forgetting someone!  Still, Soler will start vs LHP and will be valuable off the bench.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: PRCubFan on September 17, 2015, 07:49:09 am
I think Schwarber will also be in that outfield mix Play.  :)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 17, 2015, 07:24:33 am
I can't imagine them leaving Soler off the playoff roster.  Their starting OF mix will be Coghlan, Fowler, Jackson, Soler.  Their 3B/SS/2B starting mix will be Bryant, Baez, Russell, and Castro.  Bryant, Russell, and Fowler play just about every game.  Maddon can mix and match with the others. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 17, 2015, 12:07:21 am
Soler's going to play down the stretch but will he be on the playoff roster? Does he get starts? He was starting to produce before going down but not sure where he fits in at the moment.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 16, 2015, 10:05:18 am
I don't think we will lose anyone this winter unless we win the World Series.  But whenever we do, Hoyer and McLeod will be swamped with offers that they would be foolish to refuse.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 15, 2015, 10:04:32 pm
Theo does things the right way!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 15, 2015, 11:50:20 am
Bruce Miles ‏@BruceMiles2112  1m1 minute ago
Theo says he's not worried about losing front-office staffers to other clubs this off-season. Says #Cubs are tight-knit group.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BearHit on September 14, 2015, 09:46:43 am
Except for the sloppy slugfest comment about Cubs record in last 30 games...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 14, 2015, 08:35:24 am
Nice comments re: Cubs, too, especially Big Jake.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/62802/can-the-pirates-catch-the-cardinals-in-the-nl-central
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 13, 2015, 09:05:44 pm
We're not supposed to be talking about next year.  But given the other qualities on the team, the badness of our 5th starter is kind of ideal opportunity to upgrade.  Won't be too hard to acquire somebody significantly better than what Haren/Wada/Richard/Beeler have been. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 13, 2015, 04:16:45 pm
Out of 84 qualified starters in MLB this year, Dan Haren started today #80 in fWAR.  And with today's outing, he'll probably fall another spot or two.

Just end that experiment and go back to Richard or Wood. 
Grizzle, br.  Grizzle.  We need Grizzle.  Didn't you get the memo?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 13, 2015, 03:56:35 pm
Out of 84 qualified starters in MLB this year, Dan Haren started today #80 in fWAR.  And with today's outing, he'll probably fall another spot or two.

Just end that experiment and go back to Richard or Wood. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 13, 2015, 03:40:13 pm
Anyone who gives Cespedes an MVP vote should have their voting privilege revoked.

It appears to be official ESPN policy that all of their talking heads promote Cespedes' candidacy.

The talking heads are in New York.  New York media is quite understandably going to talk him up, meaning the talking heads are bound to be influenced by it.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 13, 2015, 01:41:25 pm
Anyone who gives Cespedes an MVP vote should have their voting privilege revoked.
It appears to be official ESPN policy that all of their talking heads promote Cespedes' candidacy.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 13, 2015, 01:16:41 pm
Anyone who gives Cespedes an MVP vote should have their voting privilege revoked.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on September 13, 2015, 12:44:01 pm
Regarding Rizzo's MVP case, he's actually contributed the most to his team winning games, according to WPA. WPA is a stat that basically measure's a players contribution in it's context. Hitting a grand slam in a game where your team is already up 10 runs is not the same thing as hitting a grand slam when your team is down 3 runs. WPA takes that context into consideration, and Rizzo has the highest WPA in baseball this year.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=3&season=2015
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 13, 2015, 11:00:00 am
Well, my Anthony Rizzo for MVP campaign sure has taken a hit...not that it ever really left the ground.  I might have gotten caught up in just a bit of Cub euphoria.

It will be interesting to see if Cespedes makes a big run with MVP voting.   His en fuego routine sure seems to have lifted the Mets.

Still three weeks left in the season, so a lot could happen, but I suspect Harper/Goldy will take votes from one another and the debate about MVP from non-winning team will re-ignite.

As long as Cubs win today and keep winning, it doesn't matter much to me.  I doubt Rizzo would care all that much either.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 11:23:58 pm
If Fowler departs, Zobrist fits top of the order.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 12, 2015, 10:55:33 pm
Also don't see much purpose in going hard on Zobrist, unless he wants to come here because he respects/likes Maddon and loves the chance to win big.  Given the extreme flexibility Maddon already has with the current personnel, so many of whom can already play multiple positions adequately or in some cases very well, Zobrist doesn't add as much. 

Well, maybe.  If you trade Baez (not likely) or Castro or Soler, that might open up a spot for an all-spots guy. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 12, 2015, 10:48:39 pm
I think they might ask on Price, but when the price isn't right, there will be no Price.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 12, 2015, 10:38:37 pm
I don't expect the Cubs to go after either Price or Zobrist, and it has nothing to do with budget limitations, but rather with value.  I don't think that the Cubs feel that Price is worth 30 million dollars per year, even if they had 30 million unused dollars in the budget.  The same for Zobrist at whatever he will get on the open market.

The purchasing partnership placed limitations on the amount that the Cubs could borrow for operating budget.  From what I have heard, the front money from the Wintrust, Toyota and other "partnerships" plus front money from future TV deals will eliminate the need for borrowing, and make the partnership restrictions meaningless for practical purposes.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 12, 2015, 08:53:07 pm
Sure, but do we know how Cubs manage their payroll? How they allocate payroll money from year-to-year?
Absent that knowledge, how else to compare opening day payrolls other than what we do know? What we know for certain are the official numbers. Anything else is, I think, speculation.

No, since we don't know how the Cubs manage their payroll, ANYTHING is speculation.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 08:36:11 pm
1.  reb, not sure how relevant it is how cots or mlb accounts for payroll.  How Cubs manage their budget is what really matters. 
2.  Blue, well noted that with Lester's bonus, the actual spending last year was higher than Cots etc.  But, good chance the same will apply to Price, and that he too will get an offer with a large first-year bonus.

Sure, but do we know how Cubs manage their payroll? How they allocate payroll money from year-to-year?
Absent that knowledge, how else to compare opening day payrolls other than what we do know? What we know for certain are the official numbers. Anything else is, I think, speculation.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 12, 2015, 08:23:50 pm
1.  reb, not sure how relevant it is how cots or mlb accounts for payroll.  How Cubs manage their budget is what really matters. 
2.  Blue, well noted that with Lester's bonus, the actual spending last year was higher than Cots etc.  But, good chance the same will apply to Price, and that he too will get an offer with a large first-year bonus.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Robb on September 12, 2015, 08:23:33 pm
Theo and Crane have talked about signing the cable deal early with a signing bonus that would effect payroll now.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 08:22:34 pm
One more footnote to CBJ about payroll. Debt service payments and debt service MLB rules have been, and are, significant restraints on Cubs/Ricketts ability to uptick player payroll---they have to show revenues under terms of the purchase from Zell that satisfy debt service rules. We all read this piece from last year on those constraints.

http://www.bleachernation.com/2014/03/19/the-chicago-cubs-financial-story-the-payroll-the-debt-and-the-syncing-of-baseball-and-business-plans/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 12, 2015, 08:03:51 pm
You don't know. So, better that we stick with what is known: the official payroll numbers. Anything else is pure speculation.

The Comcast deal ends AFTER 2019. That's when we may see the big revenue push, not before. Money from other modernization Wrigley sources---doubtful you'll know how much that is. Won't stop the pure guesswork. Overwhelming likelihood is that we'll continue to see incremebtal increases---not the huge increase you assume for 2016. Going to be very difficult in the extreme to fit Lester, Price, and Arrieta into a 2018 budget. Think you know that.

The Ricketts family has the resources to increase the payroll budget any time they wish.  Anything else is pure speculation.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 07:48:58 pm
Nobody knows exactly how Cubs figure their player payroll. We've had this discussion on the board forever: how to allocate bonuses. Cots, USA Today, to my knowledge every media site, goes by the official numbers. I'm going by the widely accepted norm. You can go by your own method but that would be an outlier system.

In any case, in every post so far you ignore what Cubs have publicly said about the Lester signing: they used money carried over from Tanaka to pay a chunk, presumably all or part of the bonus. So, your 2015 payroll baseline is wrong under any methodology.

Cubs budgets are certainly way more complex than you say: "either can go to players or in Rickets pockets". They likely have numerous separate budgets from office staff to scouting expenses to medical costs to whatever. To surmise how this may or may not end up for big league player costs is fanciful. You don't know. So, better that we stick with what is known: the official payroll numbers. Anything else is pure speculation.

The Comcast deal ends AFTER 2019. That's when we may see the big revenue push, not before. Money from other modernization Wrigley sources---doubtful you'll know how much that is. Won't stop the pure guesswork. Overwhelming likelihood is that we'll continue to see incremebtal increases---not the huge increase you assume for 2016. Going to be very difficult in the extreme to fit Lester, Price, and Arrieta into a 2018 budget. Think you know that.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 12, 2015, 07:07:56 pm
It's not $144. Money is always--every season irrespective of opening day payroll amount-- held back for in-season moves. Apples to apples is opening day payroll to opening day payroll.

Cots 2015 opening day payroll listing already includes a pro -rated portion of the Lester signing bonus. That's the official MLB accounting (for luxury tax purposes). The remainder of that bonus is part of the Tanaka money---an accounting carryover from previous seasons. But for that carryover, Cubs would not have budgeted as high as $122 in 2015. So, the "real" opening day budget was not $144 but actually somewhat less than $122 (taking into account the accounting carryover).

As to the Tribune days, that was Sam Zell shorting Peter to pay Paul to boost his selling price. That has less than zero relevance to anything going on today.

Regarding media reports linking Price to Cubs--maybe true, maybe not. We both hope it's true. But, as you know, most of these kind of reports come from player agents boosting the player's market.

Last point. Can you explain how Cubs fit Lester, Price, and Arrieta as a FA, into 2018 budget--two years before a new cable deal (also when Bryant and Russell and Hendricks become arb eligible)? Is Comcast going to cancel their deal two years early.


The luxury tax has zero to do with how much money the Cubs are paying out this year.  The opening payroll was $115 then + $15 million in a singing bonus for $130 million. 

The Cubs have an amount of money that they can spend correct?  Out of that money the Cubs have to pay for major league and amateurs.  If the spending on the amateurs is going to go because the Cubs will be unable to spend as much money the next year that money can certainly be moved over to the major league side.  It just doesn't disappear it either gets spent or goes to the Ricketts.  That gets you close to $150 million.

Signing Price means Arrieta might leave as a free agent or he takes deferred money or the Cubs have enough money to pay him.  The TV contract should bring in an extra $16 million by 2019, in 2018 luxury seats are supposed to be done and the bullpens being replaced will add high priced seating.  The Cubs are getting around $20 million from the bump in attendance and if they could get back to 2008 levels their is still another 500,000 in attendance to go, which might add another $30-50 million.  That could be another $48-68 million.

Comcast is the minority owner of CSN Chicago, the biggest owner is Jerry Reisndorf.  It might be in Jerry's financial interest to break the deal early and form a White Sox/Bulls network, but I doubt he wants to do the Cubs any favors.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 04:29:54 pm
Soler has also spent about half his professional career on the DL.  I think that's a far bigger concern than any of the other potential issues.....

Yeah, the injury history is a very good point.

Some will say just keep both Baez and Soler and see how that works out, given the upside.  Get that totally. 

But, things have changed from a year ago. Then, it was kind of assumed that Castro going forward would fetch us a top notch starting pitcher. But, that's not going to happen now, so go to Plan B. Have to give something to get something. Skeptical that Theo is going to fill his starting pitching needs entirely or mostly through free agency. Lester was, in part, a "winning attitude" kind of signing (like Ross---for different reasons).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 12, 2015, 04:20:57 pm
I'm not too keen on shopping Soler.  He could be come a monster offensively.  And we need to have a RH hitting corner OFer to balance Schwarber/Coghlan.

While it may be that Soler is traded for pitching, Coghlan is not really going to figure into that equation.  Coghlan is an acceptable, stop-gap solution on a couple of fronts.  He is not a foundation piece, nor is there any possibility he will be.  He is not a difference-maker, and at his age is unlikely to offer any meaningful contribution at all of a sustained period, probably no more than one year, and it would be very surprising if it were for more than two.

Soler is a potential foundation piece, a difference-maker, with a strong chance of meaningfully contributing for a period of several years.

When deciding what to do with someone like Soler, you do not consider the presence or absence of Coghlan.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 12, 2015, 03:48:21 pm
Soler has also spent about half his professional career on the DL.  I think that's a far bigger concern than any of the other potential issues.

Soler can probably still get really good value back this offseason.  If he has another underwhelming or injury-filled year next year, though, then it's too late.  The front office needs to make a decision on his future this offseason, so it's not going to be a surprise if he goes in a deal for a pitcher.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 12, 2015, 03:46:03 pm
Cardinals have four in Cincy and three in Milwaukee next. Not likely to get much help.
I'm betting on the Cards going 3 and 4 in those games.  It's a smell.
Well, they've already lost 3.  They may not even win 3!  The smell is getting stronger!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 12, 2015, 03:18:40 pm
Bottom line is that we are going to have a lot of talent and no place to play them all.  Somebody will be traded to improve the team, probably for pitching.  We are probably going to be disappointed in who's traded.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 12, 2015, 03:11:21 pm
Soler has played in a total of 114 ML games.  There is a lot of room for maturation in his game and in his approach.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 03:06:31 pm
Suggested shopping Soler because (1) probably can get back very nice piece for him; (2) think having both Soler and Baez in lineup is a strikeout bridge too far, and (3) seeing some things about Soler that are somewhat troubling.

Agree that Soler has huge upside. Chance that could be big mistake trading him.

But, don't see much intensity with this guy, gives away too many ABs with what seems like erratic focus from AB to AB, inexplicably poor defender (Maddon atypically pointed out in presser that not coaches fault--they've worked hard with him on his defense), and have to wonder if stroke conducive to HR power. Yeah, maybe it's mostly inexperience--but I think maybe more than that. 

Would have to be something really, really good to move him but I won't be that surprised if he's moved.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 12, 2015, 02:31:55 pm
I'm not too keen on shopping Soler.  He could be come a monster offensively.  And we need to have a RH hitting corner OFer to balance Schwarber/Coghlan.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 02:19:33 pm
Rosenthal video from today, "The Cubs have had a long standing interest in David Price, even prior to Joe Maddon coming on board."

The Cubs shorted the ameatuer budget back when the Tribune was selling the team to spend more money on the MLB team. The Cubs will be limited for at least the next two years on spending in the international market. It will either go to the MLB team or the Ricketts. I have zero problem with the Ricketts making money, but I think there is a good chance it gets shifted to the MLB team.

What the Cubs spent this year isn't that far off from what even your talking about. $122 million opening day, $15 million signing bonus and extra $7-8 million in trades and it gets you to $144 million + the money spent on the IFA and draft that won't be as high next year.

It's not $144. Money is always--every season irrespective of opening day payroll amount-- held back for in-season moves. Apples to apples is opening day payroll to opening day payroll.

Cots 2015 opening day payroll listing already includes a pro -rated portion of the Lester signing bonus. That's the official MLB accounting (for luxury tax purposes). The remainder of that bonus is part of the Tanaka money---an accounting carryover from previous seasons. But for that carryover, Cubs would not have budgeted as high as $122 in 2015. So, the "real" opening day budget was not $144 but actually somewhat less than $122 (taking into account the accounting carryover).

As to the Tribune days, that was Sam Zell shorting Peter to pay Paul to boost his selling price. That has less than zero relevance to anything going on today.

Regarding media reports linking Price to Cubs--maybe true, maybe not. We both hope it's true. But, as you know, most of these kind of reports come from player agents boosting the player's market.

Last point. Can you explain how Cubs fit Lester, Price, and Arrieta as a FA, into 2018 budget--two years before a new cable deal (also when Bryant and Russell and Hendricks become arb eligible)? Is Comcast going to cancel their deal two years early.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 12, 2015, 01:29:41 pm
Rosenthal video from today, "The Cubs have had a long standing interest in David Price, even prior to Joe Maddon coming on board."

The Cubs shorted the ameatuer budget back when the Tribune was selling the team to spend more money on the MLB team. The Cubs will be limited for at least the next two years on spending in the international market. It will either go to the MLB team or the Ricketts. I have zero problem with the Ricketts making money, but I think there is a good chance it gets shifted to the MLB team.

What the Cubs spent this year isn't that far off from what even your talking about. $122 million opening day, $15 million signing bonus and extra $7-8 million in trades and it gets you to $144 million + the money spent on the IFA and draft that won't be as high next year.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 01:10:46 pm
First year are guys aren't going to get a ton of money. Arrieta at $10 is in line with what Price got as a third year super two guy.

I left off Coghlan because there would be no place to play him.  Schwarber starts in LF. And Soler in RF. Zobrist would get time in the OF and INF.

Castro also would become redundant with Zobrist, so he goes too.  Paying Castro nearly $8 million or Coghlan nearly $4 million to be a pinch hitter or rare DH makes little sense and there is better uses of that money. Now if Schwarber was the starting catcher, you could find the playing time for one of them by moving Bryant to the OF platooning Coghlan in LF.

Wood is getting paid as a starter this year. Very few non closers are making $6 million/year, so he is either going to get DFA'd or sign a cheaper extension. Richard has been getting the high leverage innings of late, FWIW.

Even with your numbers a $170 million payroll is $20 million more than what the Cubs have paid this year to get pro and amateur talent. With higher revenues coming in that wouldn't be a problem.

Pretty sure that Cubs separate the major league budget from amateur procurement budget. No historical evidence that non-splurging int'l or having lower first round cost has any significant impact on player payroll.

Instead, at best, we've seen modest incremental increases in major league payroll. Been very clear that 2015 boost was dependent on banked Tanaka money.

Blind faith, I think, that Cubs will have this kind of one-year payroll increase. Don't see that until after 2019. You want Price badly, so eager to fantasize about massive payroll increase to fit him in.

My guess is Cubs are going to spit on shelling out $180-210 for Price. Would love to be wrong on that, but don't see it, realistically. Think will venture into FA pitching market but for significantly lesser cost guy. Also guessing will add a second starting pitcher through trade route.

There will be playing time for Coghlan . Think he's back. Expect Schwarber to catch 40 games and sit against some lefties. Think Zobrist will be high priority. Think Cubs will shop Soler (or Baez--more likely Soler) to acquire more starting pitching. Think we'll see bullpen acquisitions, perhaps one in a Castro deal.

Price strikes me as a budget buster-- because there will be costs to otherwise improve. Further, with Price at close to $200, how in the world are Cubs going to be in mix to re-sign Arrieta after 2017?

Let's be realistic.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 12:42:38 pm
Over his last 26 games, Castro's OPS is over .900!

Castro OPS August of 2014 was .918. One reason why he had good numbers last season. Should not be a surprise when he does this. Think most of 2015 was an anomaly. He can hit.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 12, 2015, 12:23:06 pm
You have to act fast to beat me to the punch!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 12, 2015, 11:15:13 am
One lousy second.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 12, 2015, 09:55:20 am
Schwarber was the first Cub to homer in both the first and second innings since .......................................
July 4
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 12, 2015, 09:55:19 am
Kris Bryant earlier this season.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 12, 2015, 09:54:47 am
Schwarber was the first Cub to homer in both the first and second innings since .......................................
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 12, 2015, 09:53:58 am
fwiw, it's reported that Zobrist is very happy in KC and would like to stay.  fwiw
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 12, 2015, 09:49:36 am
I hope they find a way to extend Fowler.  He's not likely to accept the qualifying offer, but maybe that will keep his price on the free agent market low enough so the Cubs can work out a three year deal.  He's been such a big part of the surge since the All Star break.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 12, 2015, 09:48:18 am
Over his last 26 games, Castro's OPS is over .900!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 12, 2015, 09:40:41 am
I would really like to know management's thinking about CF for next season.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 12, 2015, 09:28:01 am
I would be very surprised if any of the following happen before next season: Coghlan is traded, Montero is traded, Zobrist is signed (simply because there are others who play the role he did with Maddon in Tampa Bay).  I also expect Ross to be back if he wants to be, perhaps to help Lester make the transition to another catcher.

I am guessing that Castro will be traded (assuming a decent deal is reached), but won't be surprised if he is not.  I have no idea whether the Cubs will sign Price or some other high end pitcher, but doubt that a budget cap will prevent that. Theo and Ricketts have said that the money would be there when the time came, and the time has come (both in terms of the team becoming a contender and the financial circumstances for the organization changing).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 12, 2015, 08:55:30 am
Okay, let's use your numbers for sake of discussion (think you're a bit light on arb Grimm and Rondon, but fine), you have $152.58,  including E. Jackson dead money.  But, you left out Coghlan ( I have at about $3.5). Think Coghlan stays as all around guy who will get significant ABs.  That pushes you close to $156. That is your bottom line.

But, you also assume T. Wood is non-tendered. Sure seems like he's a go-to guy for Maddon.  That is debatable. He adds about $6 arb. My sense is that Maddon will push to keep him for 2016. Now, we're at $162.

Then, of course, no Castro at $7.85 or so.  Maybe he goes--I think he goes--but maybe Cubs take a contract back to move him, maybe he stays as some suggest here. If he stays, you're at just under $170. 

This $156-$170 range, using your numbers, is a huge increase from 2015. Think it's a bit fanciful to assume that kind of payroll. Where's the evidence for that? Not seeing a hint of that in media, at least so far.  Hope you are right, but a dubious assumption, seems to me.


First year are guys aren't going to get a ton of money. Arrieta at $10 is in line with what Price got as a third year super two guy.

I left off Coghlan because there would be no place to play him.  Schwarber starts in LF. And Soler in RF. Zobrist would get time in the OF and INF.

Castro also would become redundant with Zobrist, so he goes too.  Paying Castro nearly $8 million or Coghlan nearly $4 million to be a pinch hitter or rare DH makes little sense and there is better uses of that money. Now if Schwarber was the starting catcher, you could find the playing time for one of them by moving Bryant to the OF platooning Coghlan in LF.

Wood is getting paid as a starter this year. Very few non closers are making $6 million/year, so he is either going to get DFA'd or sign a cheaper extension. Richard has been getting the high leverage innings of late, FWIW.

Even with your numbers a $170 million payroll is $20 million more than what the Cubs have paid this year to get pro and amateur talent. With higher revenues coming in that wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 12, 2015, 08:26:28 am
I guess it's a deeply ingrained habit for Cub fans to start worrying and plotting about "next year" in September.  But it seems a little strange to be reading that in September of this season.  Not complaining, just observing.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 12, 2015, 06:15:24 am
Okay, let's use your numbers for sake of discussion (think you're a bit light on arb Grimm and Rondon, but fine), you have $152.58,  including E. Jackson dead money.  But, you left out Coghlan ( I have at about $3.5). Think Coghlan stays as all around guy who will get significant ABs.  That pushes you close to $156. That is your bottom line.

But, you also assume T. Wood is non-tendered. Sure seems like he's a go-to guy for Maddon.  That is debatable. He adds about $6 arb. My sense is that Maddon will push to keep him for 2016. Now, we're at $162.

Then, of course, no Castro at $7.85 or so.  Maybe he goes--I think he goes--but maybe Cubs take a contract back to move him, maybe he stays as some suggest here. If he stays, you're at just under $170. 

This $156-$170 range, using your numbers, is a huge increase from 2015. Think it's a bit fanciful to assume that kind of payroll. Where's the evidence for that? Not seeing a hint of that in media, at least so far.  Hope you are right, but a dubious assumption, seems to me.


Two other things there have not been a hint of in the media are that the Cubs either plan to shed the players which would be required to avoid a serious increase in payroll, or that the Cubs have no intention of pursuing Price because of salary considerations.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 02:35:48 am
Okay, let's use your numbers for sake of discussion (think you're a bit light on arb Grimm and Rondon, but fine), you have $152.58,  including E. Jackson dead money.  But, you left out Coghlan ( I have at about $3.5). Think Coghlan stays as all around guy who will get significant ABs.  That pushes you close to $156. That is your bottom line.

But, you also assume T. Wood is non-tendered. Sure seems like he's a go-to guy for Maddon.  That is debatable. He adds about $6 arb. My sense is that Maddon will push to keep him for 2016. Now, we're at $162.

Then, of course, no Castro at $7.85 or so.  Maybe he goes--I think he goes--but maybe Cubs take a contract back to move him, maybe he stays as some suggest here. If he stays, you're at just under $170. 

This $156-$170 range, using your numbers, is a huge increase from 2015. Think it's a bit fanciful to assume that kind of payroll. Where's the evidence for that? Not seeing a hint of that in media, at least so far.  Hope you are right, but a dubious assumption, seems to me.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 12, 2015, 12:53:52 am
1.) Not unrealistic, you just don't want to do it.

C- Montero $14, Ross $2.5
1B- Rizzo $5
2B- Baez, LaStella $1
SS- Russel $.527
3B- Bryant $.527
LF- Schwarber $.527
CF- Jackson $8
RF- Soler $3.67
OF- Zobrist- $15
OF- $.527
INF- $.527
SP- Price $30, Lester $25, Arrieta $10, Hammel $9, Hendrick $.527
RP- Rondon $2, Strop $4, Grimm $1, Rameriez $.527, Edwards $.527, Lefty $5, Left $1

$140.386 million
+Dead Money $152.58

With extra money and the money from the IFA pool that is within what the Cubs can do. 

8.) No one includes Lester's signing bonus in the $122 figure, so one could argue that the Cubs payroll was already $137 million + around $20 million for IFA.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 12, 2015, 12:32:44 am
7. Bottom line, we're looking at somewhere between $160 and $172 payroll, with Price and Zobrist and couple of new relievers.

Bottom line, the Cubs are not going to even be in the bidding for Zobrist.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 12, 2015, 12:31:32 am
Baez says his favorite position is CF...

Two things some of seem to be overlooking are as follow:

1) Alberto Almora.  It is unlikely the Cubs would want to tie up much money for very long on a CFer when they likely still view Almora as a high quality, low cost option available for multiple years beginning in 2017.  Considering his speed, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Baez in CF for at least 30 games in 2016, helping to bridge the gap to Almora.

I don't think Maddon would look at Castro as the utility player.  Just a couple of days ago, Maddon was gushing about Baez' versatility, how he can do everything and play everywhere.  I think there is a good chance, better than 50-50, that unless the Cubs get an offer that blows them way this winter, they will keep Castro, and plan on Baez as a super utility player, infield and OF, with the prospect of more than 140 starts in that role, even if no one went down to injury, forcing him to become the temporary regular at a position.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 12, 2015, 12:15:58 am
Here are some numbers re. 2016.

1. Unrealistic that Montero jettisoned. I would include his $14.

2. CF. We can speculate about Bryant or Baez as starting CF, but very unlikely to happen.  If Cubs bring back Fowler, will be $10 and up, depending on if accepts $16 qualifying offer for year one and how any extension is negotiated. Jackson, alternatively, will cost close to $9. Could trade for somebody. But, unrealistic to figure this position goes from near $10 to non-arb salary.

3. CBJ noted that entirety of Lester 2015 signing bonus came out of Tanaka "savings."  That's how Cubs got to $120 opening day payroll in 2015. Otherwise, they don't have $120 to spend to open 2015.

4. Assuming $9 in CF for 2016, that puts Cubs at about $109 for 2016, assuming no Castro, who is traded. With Castro still on board at just under $8, payroll comes in at about $117. This includes arb raises for the players I've already mentioned (Strop, Wood, Coghlan), newbie arb guys (Rondon, Grimm), Soler $1 increase, and I'm figuring about $10 salary for Arrieta.  That may be on low side for Arrieta, given potential CY award. $109 without Castro, $117 with Castro. So.....

5. Add Price at close to $30, Zobrist near $15.  That's $154 payroll without Castro, $162 with Castro...but still not done.

6. $154 and $162 assumes no bullpen additions. But, there likely will be additions at some cost. Some veterans will be brought in to replace Motte, Hunter, Jackson, Rodney--guys who racked up innings in 2015. This will not be done entirely from within.  Could cost an additonal $6-10 for vet relievers.

7. Bottom line, we're looking at somewhere between $160 and $172 payroll, with Price and Zobrist and couple of new relievers.

8. Would be great to see 2016 payroll such as above but think a bit of wishful thinking to assume that kind of jump from 2015, especially in view of Cubs reaching $120 payroll in 2015 only by applying Tanaka savings.  One could argue that 2015 opening day payroll was really closer to a budgeted $100. Has anyone with Cubs said or implied that kind of payroll jump?  Links?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 11, 2015, 11:58:56 pm
I wouldn't be shocked if Fowler doesn't re-up on an offer, Bryant may end up in CF.  Just a wild guess.

Baez says his favorite position is CF...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 11:29:01 pm
I think right now the chances are pretty low that the Cubs are going to sign any specific free agent. My only point is it won't be for a lack of money.

I agree.  They have several new income streams from the additional seats, the two jumbotrons and the two (three?) rooftop businesses that they purchased.  In addition, their TV and radio contracts will be tossing off more income than prior to this year.

But I don't think that this front office is into the game of overpaying for high end free agent talent.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 11, 2015, 11:19:48 pm
I wouldn't be shocked if Fowler doesn't re-up on an offer, Bryant may end up in CF.  Just a wild guess.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 11, 2015, 11:16:31 pm
I think right now the chances are pretty low that the Cubs are going to sign any specific free agent. My only point is it won't be for a lack of money.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 10:58:21 pm
I think there is very little chance that the Cubs will sign Price, and I think that they will not even sniff around at Zobrist.  They are loaded with infielders, and with Schwarber in left and Bryant often in right, they are loaded with outfielders.  They might be interested in Zobrist on a two year contract for center field, but I really doubt that Zobrist would be interested in a two year contract at his age.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 11, 2015, 10:42:30 pm
Where is the "plenty of room" to cut salary.

Think you're assuming Montero is traded--likely wrong assumption--and that Cubs save almost entirety of Fowler's salary filling CF--also likely wrong assumption.

Arb guys go up year to year, especially big Arrieta bump and arb newbies Rondon and Grimm. Other  arb guys too.  E. Jackson still on book for 2016. Lester and Montero and Soler contracts go up.  Maybe Wood is non-tendered--I doubt it.  Already mentioned the low cost FAs leaving. Where is the plenty of room to cut payroll?

Lester was paid $30 million this year.  $15 million in a singing bonus+ $15 million base.  -$10 million going into next year.
Montego would be another way to cut $14 million and get something of value.
Fowler $9.5 million
Castro $7 million
Motte $4.5 million
Wood $5.6 million
Wada $4 million
Denofria $2.6 million
Haren/Hunter/Jackson/Rodney $6-7 million
That is $49-50 million.  Take out Montero and it is still $35-36 million. 


Think you're assuming Montero is traded--likely wrong assumption--and that Cubs save almost entirety of Fowler's salary filling CF--also likely wrong assumption.

Arb guys go up year to year, especially big Arrieta bump and arb newbies Rondon and Grimm. Other  arb guys too.  E. Jackson still on book for 2016. Lester and Montero and Soler contracts go up.  Maybe Wood is non-tendered--I doubt it.  Already mentioned the low cost FAs leaving. Where is the plenty of room to cut payroll?

Other than attendance bump, where are purported revenue jumps for 2016 coming from? And, I've never heard that int'l signings affect big league annual payroll. Doubt there's any meaningful correlation.

The Cubs will have a full year of the sign revenue, Toyota on the marquee, I believe the non-Comcast TV deals have escalators built in for better TV ratings.  I can't remember when but the Comcast deal also starts to increase.

Did you already forget the Cubs drafts where the moved money from the picks to signing free agents?  The Cubs will be spending only a couple million on IFA instead of $10+ million.  That will pay for a relievers and the draft will be a few million less, so that can get a bench player.

There is plenty of money to pay Price, Zobrist, Hard throwing lefty reliever. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 09:16:06 pm
He keeps changing his first name.  Perhaps he is doing the same thing with his second name.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 11, 2015, 09:11:08 pm
Almora

Hey, before I posted I started spelling it "Almoro."  I've fixed it now.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 11, 2015, 09:09:51 pm
Kind of interesting that a month ago folks here worried Cubs couldn't give Castro away....

Always lots of fools in the world.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 11, 2015, 09:09:04 pm
Almora
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 11, 2015, 09:08:27 pm
Where is the "plenty of room" to cut salary.

Think you're assuming Montero is traded--likely wrong assumption--and that Cubs save almost entirety of Fowler's salary filling CF--also likely wrong assumption.

Arb guys go up year to year, especially big Arrieta bump and arb newbies Rondon and Grimm. Other  arb guys too.  E. Jackson still on book for 2016. Lester and Montero and Soler contracts go up.  Maybe Wood is non-tendered--I doubt it.  Already mentioned the low cost FAs leaving. Where is the plenty of room to cut payroll?

Other than attendance bump, where are purported revenue jumps for 2016 coming from? And, I've never heard that int'l signings affect big league annual payroll. Doubt there's any meaningful correlation.

Don't know if 2016 payroll can accommodate Price or not, in addition to other moves Cubs might undertake (Zobrist? reliever(s) to replace Motte and/ or Wood? But, think it's fanciful to simply assume payroll can accommodate another $25-30 pitcher, given upward bumps from guys on hand.

Two things some of seem to be overlooking are as follow:

1) Alberto Almora.  It is unlikely the Cubs would want to tie up much money for very long on a CFer when they likely still view Almora as a high quality, low cost option available for multiple years beginning in 2017.  Considering his speed, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Baez in CF for at least 30 games in 2016, helping to bridge the gap to Almora.

2) Wilson Contreras.  Contreras simply performed too well in 2015 for the Cubs not to look at him as another likely high quality, low cost option for multiple years, and his own history of position versatility (24 minor league games at 1B, 16 in RF, 9 in LF, 93 games at 3B, and 3 at 2B) make him the kind Maddon is likely to love, particularly if paired with Schwarber to allow the Cubs to rotate the two of them between LF and C to keep both with relatively fresh hands and healthy bats.  Perhaps not to start the season in 2016, but unless he develops some serious problems in Iowa in 2016, it is hard to imagine him not getting some playing time in the majors in 2016.  He is also likely another young player the front office would have to have an overwhelming offer for before they would trade him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 11, 2015, 08:46:42 pm
Think it's unlikely Castro is back in 2016. Cubs can take pose, as Craig posits, that don't have to trade him...but, as practical matter, awkward for everybody to keep him as a utility guy going forward. Castro has been good trooper for tail end of this season but wouldn't assume that for 2016.

More broadly, don't think we'd see all the current positional shuffling if Soler was healthy. Maddon has gone from a stifling 4-man bench to an 8-man bench. He loves that, fun for him, and keeps the regulars fresh. But tougher to do with the usual 4-man bench to open 2016.

I don't think Maddon would look at Castro as the utility player.  Just a couple of days ago, Maddon was gushing about Baez' versatility, how he can do everything and play everywhere.  I think there is a good chance, better than 50-50, that unless the Cubs get an offer that blows them way this winter, they will keep Castro, and plan on Baez as a super utility player, infield and OF, with the prospect of more than 140 starts in that role, even if no one went down to injury, forcing him to become the temporary regular at a position.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 11, 2015, 08:41:01 pm
Cubs began this season at about $120 payroll. Coming off books from 2015 opening day for 2016 are Motte and Wada (each $4), and Denorfia, Castillo, Coke (at combined about $7).

But, Lester goes up by $5 for 2016, Montero by $2, Fowler by $6 (if accepts QO), Soler by $1, Rondon and Grimm enter arb for first time from near-minimum, Strop, Coghlan, Wood (non-tender?) get arb increases, and, if course, major arb increase for Arrieta (from paltry $3.6 in 2015.

Trading Castro deletes about $7. Still, looks like a net payroll increase--before any additions.

2016 payroll? Who knows, but adding Price--on top of status quo increases--seems to require more than a $20 payroll bump.

I suspect the Cub front office and ownership do not view attendance as static, and that they likely believe that adding Price (or any ace pitcher) would so significantly increase the strength of the team that their presence on the roster would increase season ticket sales, and that their presence in the 2016 rotation would increase sales of tickets for individual games throughout the season, probably enough that, when combined with the mentioned $20M payroll bump would be more than enough to sign him -- IF the Cubs decide that is how they would like to spend the money.  That approach would certainly have my support, but Theo hasn't been calling me lately for my input, so my support is likely meaningless.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 06:46:43 pm
I don't think that this front office changes from month to month either.  They look to expectations of future performance.

Castro has been in the majors for 6 season - four very good ones and two rather bad ones.  There is as much if not more reason to believe he will be better next year than to believe he will be worse.

Seven million per year is a lot for most utility infielders, but not if this particular utility infielder has Maddon for a manager who uses utility players extensively.

If the Cubs had a gaping hole to fill, there would be a large incentive to trade him to fill that hole.  But they did not trade him this July in spite of their needs because they didn't get an offer that they felt was good enough.  I see no reason to expect the offers this winter will be that much better, nor the holes to be filled to be bigger.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 11, 2015, 06:38:19 pm
Soler doubled in his first AB tonight.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on September 11, 2015, 05:40:24 pm
I expect Starlin to be moved as well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 11, 2015, 05:30:21 pm
Kind of interesting that a month ago folks here worried Cubs couldn't give Castro away--and now Dave suggests Cubs won't even shop Castro because of his bench value to Cubs.

Don't think Cubs brass think quite this way--going from one thing to another month-by-month (or is it week-by-week?). Think they will take realistic, long-term view of this situation.

For one thing, don't see too many $7 utility IFers. And, will be tougher to trade him later once he is viewed as a utility guy with escalating contract salaries. 

We should be pleased that Castro, from the abyss, has bumped up his trade value a bit and that Cubs likely will do what clubs do when they have an expendable veteran who has been displaced. Expect a trade.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 11, 2015, 05:13:26 pm
.......There is plenty of room to cut salaries on the roster and plenty of new money coming in. If Price signs elsewhere in the off season it won't be because the Cubs can't afford him.

Where is the "plenty of room" to cut salary.

Think you're assuming Montero is traded--likely wrong assumption--and that Cubs save almost entirety of Fowler's salary filling CF--also likely wrong assumption.

Arb guys go up year to year, especially big Arrieta bump and arb newbies Rondon and Grimm. Other  arb guys too.  E. Jackson still on book for 2016. Lester and Montero and Soler contracts go up.  Maybe Wood is non-tendered--I doubt it.  Already mentioned the low cost FAs leaving. Where is the plenty of room to cut payroll?

Other than attendance bump, where are purported revenue jumps for 2016 coming from? And, I've never heard that int'l signings affect big league annual payroll. Doubt there's any meaningful correlation.

Don't know if 2016 payroll can accommodate Price or not, in addition to other moves Cubs might undertake (Zobrist? reliever(s) to replace Motte and/ or Wood? But, think it's fanciful to simply assume payroll can accommodate another $25-30 pitcher, given upward bumps from guys on hand. 

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 04:54:47 pm
I think that Maddon has his eyes on Baez as his supersub, playing 150 games, but at several different positions.  I think that will also include some outfield play.

Maddon loves to "mix and match", and he can do that much easier with someone that can start at several positions.  Coghlan could do that, but he could not do it with the defensive excellence that Baez brings to the table.

Of course, that assumes that Baez can actually provide the kind of offense that we have long hoped for.

I don't think the Cubs will be in a hurry to trade Castro.  If the offer is good enough, he will be traded, but the same can and should be said for everyone on the roster.  But I don't think that they will specifically want to trade him.  His salary isn't that high, and he seems to be taking to the uncertainty of a bench player.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 11, 2015, 04:11:57 pm
Think it's unlikely Castro is back in 2016. Cubs can take pose, as Craig posits, that don't have to trade him...but, as practical matter, awkward for everybody to keep him as a utility guy going forward. Castro has been good trooper for tail end of this season but wouldn't assume that for 2016.

I expect Castro's future depends on what other teams offer.  Two extreme possibilities:
1.  "no-talent-return":  Cubs are so happy to offload Castro's salary and the awkwardness that they'll trade him without expecting any meaningful talent . 
2.  "great-talent-return":  Some teams think Castro is a terrific value, and will offer really good talent to get him. 

IN between "no-talent-return" and "great-talent-return" extremes is a vast middle ground.  My guess is that many shoppers will be interested in Castro only at cut-rate price, based on his poor hitting two of least three years, and on a perception many GM's may hold that he's soft/dumb/distracted.  If the offers aren't very strong at all, Cubs may or may not sell, depending on how they themselves evaluate him.  I'm not sure whether the "awkwardness" is that big of a drive; Castro is a mild personality, eager to please, dwarfed by the bigger/stronger personalities in the Cubs clubhouse.  I'm not predicting they won't trade him, but I can very easily envision them not doing so.  Designate Schwarber and Baez as the LF/2B starters; Coghlan and Castro formally "subs" who could play a ton and enable Maddon to adapt/adjust to almost any and every situation. 

More broadly, don't think we'd see all the current positional shuffling if Soler was healthy. Maddon has gone from a stifling 4-man bench to an 8-man bench. He loves that, fun for him, and keeps the regulars fresh. But tougher to do with the usual 4-man bench to open 2016.

I think a 12-man staff and a bench with Ross, Castro, LaStella, Coghlan, and Denorfia could be exceptionally functional.  Maddon could still flex a lot, platoon, mix-and-match, pinch hit.  Perhaps replace one or more of those guys with somebody with similar profile, or better.  Of course, that's assuming that Castro could hit when he got used, and that perhaps LaStella could too. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 04:01:54 pm
It isn't only a question of whether or not the Cubs can afford him.  It is also a question of whether or not he is worth the money he will get, and whether or not that money can be better spent elsewhere.

I don't think that the Cubs are going to sign Price or any other pitcher at a 7 year 25 million per year (or higher) contract.  I believe that at this point they believe their money is better spent (and much less risky) if it is spent on depth rather than superstars.  A couple of 3 year, 15 million per year starting pitchers May bring more to the team than one Price.  And a devastating injury to one of them will not hurt them through 2022 or whatever.  And it also allows money for a couple of top relievers and a center fielder.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 11, 2015, 03:38:20 pm
Didn't forget Fowler. Included him, with salary bump. Think expectation is QO for him--probably won't accept, but somebody has to play there. Pretty sure Cubs won't save his entire 2015 salary for CF.

Think very unlikely Montero is traded and Schwarber assumes starting catcher to open 2016. Yeah, that would save lots of payroll money, but that impacts handling of pitching staff and Schwarber not ready for all that. Think we have to figure Montero's 2016 salary (with bump too).

Cots includes a $5 bump for Lester.

Also, keep in mind that the $120 for 2015 supposedly included big bucks "saved" from the Tanaka non-signing. That has now been spent.

The Tanka money went to Lester's signing bonus, he'd then be a -$25 million going into next year.  Most of the buzz is that the Cubs will give Fowler the QO offer and let him walk.  There is plenty of room to cut salaries on the roster and plenty of new money coming in. If Price signs elsewhere in the off season it won't be because the Cubs can't afford him.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 03:05:07 pm
I think that Maddon is talking about playing Bryant in the OF a lot (and I assume he is talking about the rest of this season, and not necessarily future seasons) is because he is expecting to play Baez a lot for the rest of the season, and there isn't a lot of room for him.  Especially if Castro has a strong finish, which is no longer seeming to be a long shot.

It would be interesting to speculate on the playoff roster if Soler actually comes back he, Baez and Castro all finish strong.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 11, 2015, 02:38:43 pm
Thanks for that note about Soler, brjones...that will make the Myrtle Beach game even more interesting!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 11, 2015, 02:33:53 pm
Soler is playing with Myrtle Beach tonight.  He'll stick with them if they advance in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 11, 2015, 02:33:38 pm
Didn't forget Fowler. Included him, with salary bump. Think expectation is QO for him--probably won't accept, but somebody has to play there. Pretty sure Cubs won't save his entire 2015 salary for CF.

Think very unlikely Montero is traded and Schwarber assumes starting catcher to open 2016. Yeah, that would save lots of payroll money, but that impacts handling of pitching staff and Schwarber not ready for all that. Think we have to figure Montero's 2016 salary (with bump too).

Cots includes a $5 bump for Lester.

Also, keep in mind that the $120 for 2015 supposedly included big bucks "saved" from the Tanaka non-signing. That has now been spent.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 11, 2015, 02:25:05 pm
I think they will only keep Castro if they decide they want him to be the everyday second baseman.  I don't think they will do this unless they have decided that they want Baez to be the everyday third baseman.  It could happen, but I'm guessing that Castro will be moved in the offseason.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 11, 2015, 02:20:40 pm
Your forgetting almost $10 million for Fowler coming off the books.  Monterro could also clear $14 million.

Lester's base goes up $5 million, but he got a $30 million signing bonus so I'm not sure how Cot's handled that.

The $20 million in attendance isn't the only increase in revenue as well. The budgets for the draft and IFA will also be a lot less as well.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 11, 2015, 02:17:16 pm
Think it's unlikely Castro is back in 2016. Cubs can take pose, as Craig posits, that don't have to trade him...but, as practical matter, awkward for everybody to keep him as a utility guy going forward. Castro has been good trooper for tail end of this season but wouldn't assume that for 2016.

More broadly, don't think we'd see all the current positional shuffling if Soler was healthy. Maddon has gone from a stifling 4-man bench to an 8-man bench. He loves that, fun for him, and keeps the regulars fresh. But tougher to do with the usual 4-man bench to open 2016.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 11, 2015, 01:50:36 pm
I was just going through MLB Trade Rumors and Gordo had a piece that the Cubs are estimating a 275,000 increase in fans this year and that could lead to an extra $20+ million in revenue.

Cubs began this season at about $120 payroll. Coming off books from 2015 opening day for 2016 are Motte and Wada (each $4), and Denorfia, Castillo, Coke (at combined about $7).

But, Lester goes up by $5 for 2016, Montero by $2, Fowler by $6 (if accepts QO), Soler by $1, Rondon and Grimm enter arb for first time from near-minimum, Strop, Coghlan, Wood (non-tender?) get arb increases, and, if course, major arb increase for Arrieta (from paltry $3.6 in 2015.

Trading Castro deletes about $7. Still, looks like a net payroll increase--before any additions.

2016 payroll? Who knows, but adding Price--on top of status quo increases--seems to require more than a $20 payroll bump.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 11, 2015, 01:42:30 pm
Patrick Mooney has a piece on Bryant in the OF, with quotes from Maddon, that is pretty interesting.

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dhgBt?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=chicago-cubs (http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dhgBt?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=chicago-cubs)

Hadn't thought about the different throwing mechanics between positions at all. 


Interesting that Maddon says Bryant will play OF "a lot".  I assume he's think more the remainder of this season than next year and beyond.  May not reflect well on Soler being back 100% anytime soon. 

Cubs don't have great defense, but I think the positional versatility that Bryant, Baez, and Russell have all shown has been really nice.  All three seem very capable defensively at several positions.  Castro too, the move to 2B has been smooth.

jes brought this up the question of Castro beyond this season.  Certainly teams wanting a middle-infielder will know he could be available.  Still, I'm not sure that his modest resurgence is going to greatly elevate his trade value.  Fair chance the Cubs may decide no trade offer is worth it, and just keeping him, again ending up with a lot of versatility. 


Coghlan, Soler, Schwarber, and Bryant would give good corner coverage.  Baez, Russell, Bryant, and Castro would give good infield coverage.  Having 7 guys for 5 spots gives pretty good protection, while also keeping guys pretty engaged.

Of course, *IF* Castro had enough trade value to be a part of a trade for a reliever or starter, it's not like the Cubs don't have money to pursue some other depth guy. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on September 11, 2015, 01:03:22 pm
the other award (under any name) for the best position player.

I propose the Mick Kelleher Award.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 11, 2015, 01:00:45 pm
Patrick Mooney has a piece on Bryant in the OF, with quotes from Maddon, that is pretty interesting.

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dhgBt?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=chicago-cubs (http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dhgBt?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=chicago-cubs)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 11:05:23 am
Yes, but it has never attained the status equal to the MVP or Cy Young award. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 11, 2015, 10:20:01 am
Isn't that what the Hank Aaron Award is?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 11, 2015, 10:03:21 am
When they started the MVP award, the purpose was to recognize not the best player in baseball, but the most valuable player for a particular team.  Many players have been overlooked by fans because they were doing the little things that are not obvious to fans, but were vital to a particular team.  The guy that got on base so that the home run hitter could drive them in.  The guy that consistently got the game winning hit.  The little shortstop that prevented runs from scoring.

Personally, I think that voters seldom voted for those guys anyway.  They would make it more equitable if they just made the Cy Young aware for the best pitcher (which they mostly have) and the other award (under any name) for the best position player.

But then, what would the talk radio and reporters have to talk about?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 11, 2015, 12:02:48 am
I was just going through MLB Trade Rumors and Gordo had a piece that the Cubs are estimating a 275,000 increase in fans this year and that could lead to an extra $20+ million in revenue.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 10, 2015, 07:53:06 pm
There are enough awards already.  They need to just clarify the rules for the MVP.

A most outstanding player award would make the MVP so arbitrary and narrative-driven that it wouldn't mean anything anyway.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 10, 2015, 07:50:40 pm
Agree.   Then let's give everyone with more than ten hits a blue ribbon.   But everyone gets at least a red ribbon so nobody feels bad and has their ego damaged.  And every team gets rings.  Big shiney ones.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: buff on September 10, 2015, 07:40:26 pm
I think they should have 2 awards Mvp and then one for most outstanding player
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 10, 2015, 05:52:20 pm
Not to beat the Harper MVP dead horse, but Harper 8.6 fWAR. Rest of the Nationals positional fWAR 8.3.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: guest61 on September 10, 2015, 03:13:27 pm
LMAO
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 10, 2015, 02:48:43 pm
That goes back to Branch Rickey (and Ralph Kiner's salary).
Hmmm...I tended to recall it had something to do with Calvin Griffith, so I went to Wikipedia.  Hysterical.  Consider the Atlanta Hawks owner and the guy with the Clippers.  How would this quote float today:

"I'll tell you why we came to Minnesota. It was when we found out you only had 15,000 blacks here. Black people don't go to ballgames, but they'll fill up a rassling ring and put up such a chant it'll scare you to death. We came here because you've got good, hardworking white people here."[3]

He said that in 1978 and got away with it!  Holy crap!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 10, 2015, 02:43:35 pm
Without Harper the Nats would be closer to the Phillies than the Mets.   He was their entire offense almost the whole year.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 10, 2015, 02:35:07 pm
Since there's no one official definition of what the MVP is supposed to be, it's probably just as well that it will be decided by a whole bunch of voters who will approach it with their own definition of what it's supposed to be.  And it will be Harper.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 10, 2015, 02:31:59 pm
There's also the old Bob Horner quote: "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you".

I'm always curious why this logic doesn't hold up on the other end: "We finished first with you, we can finish first without you."  The Cubs are going to win the second wild card spot by about 10 games.  It's unlikely that Rizzo made a 10 game difference in the standings this year by himself--one player just isn't that valuable on a baseball team.  So if you're going to follow this logic, you need to remove players from all teams that ran away with their playoff spots too.

So in that case, players from the Cubs, Dodgers, and Mets are ineligible.  That means the MVP is McCutchen--without him, the Pirates would likely be in line for the second wild card spot.  Or maybe it's Jason Heyward--his fWAR (3.9) is basically identical to the current difference between the Cardinals and Pirates (4 games in the loss column).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 10, 2015, 02:19:32 pm

There's also the old Bob Horner quote: "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you".

That goes back to Branch Rickey (and Ralph Kiner's salary).
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 10, 2015, 02:14:07 pm
It seems kind of silly for one's competitiveness to win an MVP award to be dependent on how weak the rest of your team is.  For the most part, the weaker one's teammates, the bigger the relative impact of your performance would be in terms of Ws and Ls. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 10, 2015, 02:07:45 pm
The Cubs were 76-85 in 1987.

There's also the old Bob Horner quote: "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you".
Correct. How many games would that horrible team have won without the Hawk?

I'm not missing the point. I'm just saying that team could have been much, much worse.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 10, 2015, 02:04:20 pm
As Buster Olney said today, if guys from losing clubs shouldn't win---just take them off the ballot. Why are they eligible?

Or, you can say not the player's fault that his teammates stink. Best player wins, period.

From my perspective, Bryce Harper is the NL MVP. 
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 10, 2015, 01:53:21 pm
Where would the 1987 Cubs have been without Dawson? How many games worse?
The Cubs were 76-85 in 1987.

There's also the old Bob Horner quote: "We finished last with you, we can finish last without you".
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 10, 2015, 01:47:12 pm
If the MVP award is about numbers, Harper is the winner.  Hands down.  Awesome season by the numbers; terrific season overall.  NO question.

However, if the award is about contribution to a Team (as it is), Rizzo should win...he's contributed more to his team than any other player in the NL this season. 

He's helped Cubs FAR more than Harper has helped Nats. (maybe the Nats couldn't be helped, but that's the way it goes...would Nats have finished much lower in the NL East standings without him?)

Rizzo isn't real flashy or often mentioned by the media as a top player, so he probably won't win.  But he should...because leadership IS HUGE...and should be strongly considered!

Rizzo is WAY more valuable to the Cubs than Sammy ever was (even when hitting 60+ bombs) and more valuable than Harper this year. IMHO

If we've observed anything as Cub fans in recent years, it's that leadership (front office, on the bench and on the field) is CRITICAL!  Extremely hard to win anything without it!




Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 10, 2015, 01:45:28 pm
Where would the 1987 Cubs have been without Dawson? How many games worse?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 10, 2015, 12:04:40 pm
Quote
There seems to always be a debate about the definition of the MVP. What does the ballot say?

Dear Voter:

There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

1.  Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.

2.  Number of games played.

3.  General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

4.  Former winners are eligible.

5.  Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.


You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot. Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, including pitchers and designated hitters.


Just for discussion's sake


If the actual value of a player to his team is the #1 criteria, whether it be measured in wins or place in the standing, how did Andre Dawson win in 1987?


Doesn't #2 all but eliminate starting pitchers from consideration?


Wouldn't changing the award to Most Outstanding Player settle most of the arguments?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 10, 2015, 11:39:29 am
Yeah, I'm with Cletus and CUB.  Harper should be the MVP this year.  I've never understood bringing in all the outside factors like the team's record/playoff status, or intangible clubhouse/leadership abilities when one player is so far ahead of the rest of the pack.  Major league baseball players are "valuable" when they help their teams win games, and posting the best individual numbers is the best way to help a team win.  So Harper should be the MVP. 

That said, I fully expect the writers to try their best not to give the MVP award to Harper.  Their excuse to not vote for Harper also applies to Votto, Goldschmidt, and Posey, so it would not be that surprising to see the vote come down to Rizzo and McCutchen.  It makes for a good story if Bryant, Maddon, and Rizzo (and maybe Arrieta) all win postseason awards, so the narrative probably makes Rizzo the favorite if the writers do successfully give the MVP to someone else.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 10, 2015, 11:24:16 am
Bryce Harper has a 1.124 OPS.  His wRC+ is 201.  He is 101% better than league average.  The next closest wRC+ is 178. 

Rizzo has been great, but Harper is the MVP.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jack Birdbath on September 10, 2015, 10:08:03 am
If Bryce Harper isn't the MVP this year then there is no point in even having the award.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 10, 2015, 10:00:03 am
In my car this a.m. listening to MLB radio, Duke and Farrand talking NL MVP...almost couldn't believe my ears when they talked up Harper as the likely MVP, Goldy and Votto (due to their #s) in the same breath as Rizzo.  Ridiculous!

All of us have followed Cubs for a long time and know that it's taken a MONUMENTAL shift in thinking AND execution to get Cubs from where they were to where they are now.

Anthony Rizzo is and has been the HEART and SOUL of the Cubs...he's the #1 reason they've taken the quantum leap this season and is at the epicenter of the Cub transformation with:
* toughness and determination (e.g. willingness to stand on the plate and get hit by pitches, dive into the stands, steal a bag...whatever it takes!)
* consistent execution (both offensively and defensively, playing EVERY day) and
* inspiring leadership (from last season's going after bad-ass Chapman, to his bold statement last winter to being in the center of everything good this season)!

Whether he wins MVP or not, Anthony Rizzo IS the National League's MVP, if it's about helping a club win (vs putting up individual stats).  He's earned the MVP the old-fashioned way!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 10, 2015, 07:27:52 am
I wonder if Maddon is now thinking he has found his Zobriest?

I wouldn't be surprised if Baez, Castro and Russell are all with the Cubs on opening day in 2016.

“He falls out of bed and he can play defense,” Maddon said before Wednesday’s 4-3 loss at Busch Stadium. “It’s incredible to watch how smooth he is and how comfortable he is with all these different positions.  He’s just different. I don’t know even know if I’ve ever had anybody quite that comfortable on the infield, especially at that age... I really like Addie at shortstop.... I like Javy’s ability to move around like he is right now. I’d like him to give Addie a day off. But we have not spoken at all about doing anything differently....  Javy is showing you that he’s capable of doing all that,” Maddon said. “I’m certain he could be a good outfielder, too. But when a guy can play that kind of game on the dirt, you want to keep him there.”

One thing would appear nearly certain if Castro continues his resurgence at the plate -- the Cubs will be entertaining some very attractive offers during the winter meetings this year.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ticohans on September 10, 2015, 01:00:45 am
^
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on September 09, 2015, 11:51:53 pm
And I think it's still more likely we catch the Cards than it is that we miss the playoffs.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dihard on September 09, 2015, 11:51:42 pm
Even after a fairly "bad" day, we are 22 games over .500, the Giants are 4 over, and the Nats are 3 over.  That sounds pretty damn good.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 09, 2015, 05:49:28 pm
Hey, Reverse Standings here.

And, WE DON'T CARE!

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/reversestandings
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 09, 2015, 11:31:36 am
Fangraphs article on Baez.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/projecting-javier-baez-and-quantifying-his-improvements/
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 09, 2015, 11:10:47 am
I think Baez looks pretty good at third.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 09, 2015, 10:09:03 am
Gordon Wittenmyer says the wild card game will be Jake Arrieta vs Gerrit Cole

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/945009/cubs-line-jake-arrieta-face-cole-one-game-playoff
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 08, 2015, 11:25:58 pm
The top one is indeed Russell.

The bottom one is Barry Larkin's first full season...he had 160 or so AB's the season prior.

It is made all the more impressive when you recognize that Larkin's numbers left him with an OPS+ of 76, while Russell has an OPS+ of 91.

Of course, when Starlin Castro was Russell's age, Castro an had OPS+ of 111, was an All Star, and led the league in hits....
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: buff on September 08, 2015, 10:53:41 pm
Milwaukee has been playing decent as of late.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 08, 2015, 10:46:49 pm
I'm betting on the Cards going 3 and 4 in those games.  It's a smell.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 08, 2015, 10:44:11 pm
Cardinals have four in Cincy and three in Milwaukee next. Not likely to get much help.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 08, 2015, 10:37:22 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 08, 2015, 10:36:11 pm
Pretty great, isn't it?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 08, 2015, 10:35:42 pm
Cubs are now 23 games over .500, 6.5 games behind the Cardinals, 2 behind the Pirates, 9.5 ahead of both the Nats and Giants. The Cubs are almost as close to the Cards as the Nats are to the Mets.  If the Cubs sweep the Cards in St Louis tomorrow behind Lester, it isn't out of the question that they could end up contending for the division title as the month progresses.  Absolutely astonishing.

Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 08, 2015, 05:33:28 pm
Put him on it.  You can make room by putting Schwarber on the 60 day DL.
Hell, just cut him if he can't catch.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 08, 2015, 05:30:23 pm
Put him on it.  You can make room by putting Schwarber on the 60 day DL.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Reb on September 08, 2015, 04:40:21 pm
Schlitter--unlike Ramirez and Medina--is not on the 40-man. Previously outrighted.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 08, 2015, 04:18:18 pm
Schlitter got passed over again?  Is there no justice?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 08, 2015, 03:50:28 pm
Ramirez and Medina have been added to the team.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 08, 2015, 01:34:53 pm
Yep.  With sore ribs, batting would seem to risk exacerbating the injury.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: jacey1 on September 08, 2015, 01:24:29 pm
Sit him this series....no need to take any stupid chances at this point. We are going to need "Babe" in the coming weeks
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 08, 2015, 12:16:55 pm
Schwarber "might" be able to pinch hit tonight from Maddon on the Score.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 08, 2015, 11:57:53 am
Nice.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 08, 2015, 11:51:16 am
The top one is indeed Russell.

The bottom one is Barry Larkin's first full season...he had 160 or so AB's the season prior.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 08, 2015, 11:30:09 am
Top one is Russell.  Not sure who the bottom one is.  Are those 2015 numbers?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: DelMarFan on September 08, 2015, 11:24:20 am
Quote
I have nothing to say on the subject.

Excellent response.  He hasn't posted much this season, and the Cubs are doing very well, so ix-nay on trying to get more out of eff-Jay.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Ron on September 08, 2015, 11:16:49 am
Jeff's variation of the old "if you can't say anything nice ..." perhaps.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JeffH on September 08, 2015, 10:56:09 am
JeffH, we haven't heard from you in a while.  How do you assess the Cubs at this point in the season?

I have nothing to say on the subject.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 08, 2015, 09:48:57 am
Castro and Russell?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Dave23 on September 08, 2015, 09:39:52 am
G       PA      AB    R    H    2B 3B   HR   RBI  SB  CS  BB   K     BA        OBP      SLG     OPS   OPS+ AGE
117   438   400   52   97    24   1   13   44    2    3   32   127  0.243   0.302   0.405   0.707   91    21
125   488   439   64   107  16   2   12   43   21   6   36   52    0.244   0.306   0.371   0.678   76    23

Just for fun...2 players compared...who is who?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: BearHit on September 08, 2015, 09:00:05 am
El Nino
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 08, 2015, 08:33:19 am
So we can now predict torrential rains for Southern California and Arizona next spring?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: AZSteve on September 08, 2015, 08:07:13 am
The Cubs will open 2016 on the road against the Angels and Diamondbacks.  It'll be nice not to have to worry about weather postponing half the games in the first week.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-bits-cubs-cardinals-spt-0908-20150907-story.html
Great way to start 2016
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 08, 2015, 07:20:23 am
We all knew Russell would be good...I sure didn't see him being this good, this fast!  He's been terrific!

JeffH, we haven't heard from you in a while.  How do you assess the Cubs at this point in the season?
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 08, 2015, 03:12:19 am
Russell is 4-18 this month w/ 11 K.  He also has 3 homers and an OPS of 1.056.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 07, 2015, 09:20:17 pm
The Cubs will open 2016 on the road against the Angels and Diamondbacks.  It'll be nice not to have to worry about weather postponing half the games in the first week.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-bits-cubs-cardinals-spt-0908-20150907-story.html
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 07, 2015, 08:55:15 pm
Yeah, they play 19 games total so it'll definitely be the head-to-head tie breaker. Can't split an odd number of games.

Ah, for the old days of "ties" in Wrigley Field games...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 07, 2015, 07:41:08 pm
Yeah, they play 19 games total so it'll definitely be the head-to-head tie breaker. Can't split an odd number of games.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Chris27 on September 07, 2015, 07:38:18 pm
Cubs hold both the first two tiebreaks. Probably come down to head-to-head. Cubs are 7-5 against Pitt.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Bennett on September 07, 2015, 07:10:29 pm
Who hosts the wild card game if the Cubs and Pirates end the season with identical records?

The Cubs are 7-5 vs the Pirates so far in 2015.  There are four games in Pittsburgh Sept 15-17 and three at Wrigley Sept 25-27.

Breaking ties without playoff games
The team with the best record in head to head play.
The team with the best overall record in intradivision games.
The team with the best overall record in intraleague games.
The team with the best record in the final 81 games of the season, ignoring interleague play.
The team with the best record in the final 82 games of the season (provided the game added is not between the tied teams), extending backward until the tie is broken (Interleague games are skipped and ignored in this process.)
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JBN on September 07, 2015, 07:06:11 pm
0-26 the rest of this season and 0-162 next year.

Save your time and money.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 07, 2015, 06:43:54 pm
Not yet.

Cubs have the best record in the NL since the ASB.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JBN on September 07, 2015, 06:18:38 pm
It's over now.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 07, 2015, 04:33:37 pm
Tuffy screws us.  We're doomed.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on September 07, 2015, 04:15:47 pm
Good grief....there goes the season...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Tuffy on September 07, 2015, 04:14:37 pm
For the Cubs to post a losing record this season, they would have to finish the year 1 and 25.

I think .500 is a lock.

Probably.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Jes Beard on September 07, 2015, 10:52:41 am
I have very pleasantly surprised with Baez's first week.  I've been something of a skeptic, and obviously 16 AB doesn't prove much. 

But the small sample has been encouraging.  He doesn't look overmatched at the plate early on, and he looks professional.  He looks like he's ready for the majors.   

18 plate appearances and only 3 K's, to go along with 2 walks.  Quite an improvement.  If he maintains those ratios, everyone would be happy.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: brjones on September 07, 2015, 10:18:09 am
Rosscup and Edwards called up.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: FDISK on September 07, 2015, 09:31:46 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-chris-coghlan-journey-cubs-spt-0907-20150906-story.html
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: ben on September 07, 2015, 09:21:39 am
It does appear that Baez has come a long way at the plate.  Let's hope the adjustments can become habitual...he's got SO much upside!
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 07, 2015, 08:39:43 am
I have very pleasantly surprised with Baez's first week.  I've been something of a skeptic, and obviously 16 AB doesn't prove much. 

But the small sample has been encouraging.  He doesn't look overmatched at the plate early on, and he looks professional.  He looks like he's ready for the majors.   
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: chgojhawk on September 06, 2015, 03:01:46 pm
If the Cubs maintain a big lead they will have no problem toggling the rotation to allow their pitcher of choice to be available for a Wild Card game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 06, 2015, 03:00:06 pm
If I counted right and the don't skip any starters on the 2 off dates, Arrieta's normal day to pitch would be Ocober 7th.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: JBN on September 06, 2015, 01:37:54 pm
What if Arrieta is not available for the one game playoff?

The Nationals aren't going away and the schedule they have is pretty lame on paper.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CUBluejays on September 06, 2015, 12:32:05 pm
I don't recall that assertion, but I don't memorize every post.

I'm guessing this is me.  I don't remember writing that it is impossible, just that you are more likely to find an ace in the first round and elsewhere it is rare.
From 2010-2015 fWAR pitching leaders.  12/20 1st round picks, 2/20 second round picks, 3/20 IFA, 3/20 drafted after the 2rd round.  This year 5/20 have been drafted after the 2nd round, so I don't think it has changed.  It can happen, but it is rare.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 06, 2015, 12:24:39 pm
I think in a 1-game playoff you go with your best starter and hope your other starters rise to the occasion if you advance.
Ordinarily, I agree with you 100%, but Maddon doesn't think like the rest of us...
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: craig on September 06, 2015, 12:22:03 pm
choosing who you want to pitch in a 1-game playoff assumes you have that luxury.  Having a 7 game lead helps make that more plausible.   
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 06, 2015, 12:02:03 pm
I think in a 1-game playoff you go with your best starter and hope your other starters rise to the occasion if you advance.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: CurtOne on September 06, 2015, 12:00:52 pm
Arrieta's run would seem to end any remaining ambiguity about who would start in a wild card playoff game.
Of course, assuming it's against the Pirates, Maddon may figure that if he can't start Arrieta twice against the Cardinals, we'd be up against it, so gamble with Lester, then have Arrieta twice and Lester once against the Cards.  It'll be interesting.  Yes, we have to get to the Cards first.  Understood.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: Playtwo on September 06, 2015, 11:52:30 am
Arrieta's run would seem to end any remaining ambiguity about who would start in a wild card playoff game.
Title: Re: Cubs in '15 (8/3 - 12/1)
Post by: davep on September 06, 2015, 11:48:55 am
I don't recall that assertion, but I don't memorize every post.