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General Category => Archives => Topic started by: Pekin on January 07, 2012, 06:12:34 pm


Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 07, 2012, 06:12:34 pm
Please let the 2011 Chicago Bear Topic die and post here from now on.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on January 07, 2012, 06:38:15 pm
Lots of good discussion on Oline.

Personally I think we are improving and 1 or 2 pieces and we could really be set for quite awhile. 

Webb struggled but don't forget he is young and gaining experience.  I do think either drafting an LT high or bring in QUALITY LT would be wise...I kind of lean toward drafting.

Really think we need to draft an OG with one of either our 2nd or 3rd round (2) picks. 

I think Louis (ROG) and Carimi (ROT) are the right side of the line next year.  I think Garza stays at C.  I think that Spencer becomes backup C/OG.  Chris Williams battles it out with rookie OG on left side for starter/backup spots.  Rookie or FA LT; with Webb as backup swing tackle. 

I personal think it will be 1st round Rookie LT: Williams: Garza: Louis: Carimi

With Rookie OG, Spencer and Webb as backups.  That would be a nice Oline I believe.

The 2nd round pick would be CB, the other 3rd would be LB, 4th S.

Under this scenario FA #1 WR's is a must.  I personally would like to see that person be Dwayne Bowe or Marques Colston.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 07, 2012, 06:41:49 pm
And here we go, the sum of all fears.  What a bunch of sockcuckers.  George looks like a parody of a mad englishman.  End of days boys, end of days.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-quiet-on-saturday-but-could-they-look-at-ruskell-for-gm-20120107,0,775292.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 07, 2012, 06:44:37 pm
Hard to believe that the Bears O-line may go from their biggest weakness to biggest strength in one year.  But getting rid of Angelo gives me hope.

Draft or sign a top notch FA LT and the Bears are set on the O-line.

Draft or preferably sign a proven stud #1 WR in FA and the O is good to go.

Use the rest of the draft and FA to fill in holes and provide depth.





Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 07, 2012, 06:46:01 pm
If Ruskell winds up the GM you can kiss your hopes goodbye as far as improving the Bears' OL or WR talent.

Those two spots were perennial points of embarrassment and failure in Seattle while he was running the show out there. 

He let the 2nd best O-Lineman in team history (Steve Hutchinson) walk in the prime of his career, and never came close to replacing him. He ridiculously overpaid the Patriots for Deion Branch, who promptly busted.  He left them saddled with Matt Hasselbeck at QB for years, and never even attempted to replace Shaun Alexander even though was plenty of advance warning that Alexander's best days were done.

All he does is draft undersized defensive players, especially DL.  And even those guys don't pan out. Sound like anyone we know?

In short, Tim Ruskell is an imbecile and especially when it comes to drafting offense. I may very well forego watching the draft this year if Ruskell is making the picks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 07, 2012, 06:47:51 pm
I will be pissed if Ruskell is named GM.

He is worse then the guy they just fired.  Seriously if this is the plan they should of just kept Angelo and fired the whole bunch next year.  It would of saved them money also.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 07, 2012, 06:57:47 pm
Pretty much anyone who knows the workings of Halas Hall could have predicted how this would all go down.

Tice would be the OC, and Ruskell the GM.  The path of least resistance (and expense) all around.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 07, 2012, 07:12:50 pm

Kind of looking that way, isn't it?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 07, 2012, 08:08:45 pm
When they hired Tice as OC then we all know who the GM was next in waiting.  Too obvious.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 07, 2012, 08:35:32 pm

Or quite possibly there isn't anybody even interested in interviewing for the damn job...except Ruskell.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 07, 2012, 08:43:52 pm
That's depressing...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 07, 2012, 08:45:01 pm
Somebody has to be interested.  Really.  Even accepting Lovie.  Look, Angelo accepted Jauron.  Right????
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 07, 2012, 08:48:18 pm
If Ruskell gets the job, I am going to start following another team.  Really.  That is just depressing. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 07, 2012, 09:00:08 pm
for some reason I find my self pulling for the Lions over the Saints :-)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 07, 2012, 09:07:22 pm
for some reason I find my self pulling for the Lions over the Saints :-)
for some reason I find my self pulling for the Lions over the Saints :-)

I am pulling for either team so it is win/win.  The Lions our division, plus I feel sorry for them for being so bad for so long.  The Saints, Drew Brees et al, they just do a great job.  Plus I love visiting NOLA.  I love watching a game where you can root for both teams.  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on January 07, 2012, 11:19:37 pm
that picture of george mccaskey is freaky.  he's got crazy eyes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 08, 2012, 11:50:48 am
Can George seriously be considering throwing out all the goodwill he's created with the fans by hiring Ruskell? I have hopes that he's a bit smarter than that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 08, 2012, 06:28:22 pm
Well just suppose for a minute Phillips fails to interview candidates or we get turned down by several and Ruskell is given the GM title, does that give George the reason to fire Phillips and Ruskell? Just asking. When ownership gives Phillips a job to do and he fails in his task, is that grounds for firing?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 08, 2012, 06:46:37 pm
I found this blurb of interest:

It is believed Phillips wants to focus on external candidates before giving Ruskell consideration.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 08, 2012, 07:20:48 pm
As well he should.

Phillips is the man to the McCaskeys because he got the stadium deal done.  And just in time also because no way it happens with the economy today.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 08, 2012, 07:48:45 pm
The skill sets required to shake money lose from politicos is not the skill set required to get the right people in the right place to win nfl championships.  That the Tanninbaums think it is, or close enought that it will work while the money machine cranks on, is the problem.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 08, 2012, 10:22:42 pm
So my question remains unanswered. Let me simplify it. Does Phillips get fired if he cant find a GM outside the Bears? He was given a job to do and IMHO he is going to fail at it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 09, 2012, 08:07:46 am
I think the answer depends.
If the family has issued a decree that Lovie stays and Philips can't find a GM then you can't pin that on Philips.
If Philips is the one saying it then he has to go.
I'm thinking it is almost lip service and that for the right GM they can send the coaches packing and start all over.

I'd take a chance on a young up comer from a winning organization before I would hire a retread that never was.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 09, 2012, 09:22:23 am
I'd take a chance on a young up comer from a winning organization before I would hire a retread that never was.

Yep
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 09, 2012, 09:37:30 am
But he is already under contract in Ruskell, the up and comer isnt. Dont see them canning the whole coaching staff and paying for 2 coaching staffs. Just not the Bears modus operandi.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 09, 2012, 01:42:03 pm
if they don't do something positive, more than status quo, I might start pulling for the Panthers.
Anyone know a good Panthers board?
At least then I could watch every game and actually pull for the team from the state I live in!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 09, 2012, 01:50:38 pm
When I give up on the Bears I give up on NFL football.  I lived before the Bears, I'll live after.  I don't need a daily reminder of ineptness in a family business.  McCasky's are nothing but a booby hatch.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 09, 2012, 01:51:09 pm
Could always switch to watching the weather channel or something
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 09, 2012, 02:03:07 pm
Here in NC most of football season is decent weather, I could do something much better.
Honestly if it weren't for the folks here I'd likely give it up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 09, 2012, 02:12:26 pm
The Panthers have the makings of a real good team if given another year or two of solid personnel acquisitions.

Their two biggest challenges at this point are getting a stud WR for Newton to throw too, and getting their D up to snuff.

Alshon Jeffery is right in the Panthers' backyard and if they nab him, that handles the first to-do.  And with Rivera as HC I've got to believe that D won't stink for too much longer.

It doesn't help that they have the Saints and the Falcons in their division but I'm not sure how much longer the Falcons can be considered legit after being bounced from their first playoff game in convincing fashion, two years in a row.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 09, 2012, 02:31:38 pm
yeah, they have a pretty good OL, RB's and a QB they can win some games with.
They also have 2 pretty good TE's in Olsen and Shockey.
With another WR and some help on D, they'll get better.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 09, 2012, 04:07:23 pm
Could always switch to watching the weather channel or something


LOL!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 09, 2012, 04:08:40 pm
Sh!t, I'm a fukking Bears fan, have been my whole life, and I'll die a Bears fan..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 09, 2012, 04:19:53 pm
Maybe it's just me, but from what I saw of the caliber of play in the wildcard games, I find the Bears' prospects quite discouraging.  We are well behind the curve in both talent and coaching, and it seems like we're falling farther behind the elite NFC teams every year.  At full strength, the Bears MIGHT have been able to make a better showing against the Giants than the Falcons did, but every other team in the NFC playoff field appears to be noticeably superior to us.  More playmakers (especially on offense, where it really matters these days), more focus, fewer mistakes, better coaching, etc.

If the Bears don't significantly improve themselves this offseason...  especially at WR, OL and coaching...  I'm afraid it could be years before we're in the playoff conversation again. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 09, 2012, 04:38:29 pm
Cupboards empty thanks to Angieblow.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 09, 2012, 04:45:38 pm
From a personnel perspective, I really think that this year's draft and FA activity will determine whether we get back to the playoffs next year, or go into a 3-5 year playoff drought where we'll be struggling to make it to .500 in any given year.

Without some new blood and a more much more competitive scheme on defense, we are gonna need an offense that can score 30 or 35 points on demand just to stay in games.  And since we are miles away from that kind of offense in either scheme or talent, well...   

Suffice to say that a toady hack like Tim Ruskell is not the guy you want calling the shots in an offseason that's this critical.  Lovie, Tice and the rest had best be praying he doesn't get the gig cause they're all dead men walking if he's buying the groceries.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 09, 2012, 04:57:24 pm
+1
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 09, 2012, 06:30:16 pm
I read this in the Dr office this afternoon. I think the Bears WR could use this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1193455/index.htm
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 09, 2012, 07:40:53 pm
We don't need much to make us competitive while we've still got some older talent. But the window is very much closing fast. THIS year...we need a top wideout drafted and one via FA, same with OL and draft a good corner or get one via FA. Now IF we get JUST this, we will be in it next season. We've got the tools at QB, for the most part on DL if they're not on the field all game, secondary is so so but heck even the top teams are getting burned bad on defense, so we need a productive offense. We've got a great running game with plenty of depth...unless they get stupid and drain us there,too. We get that help, even just some of that help, we can be back in it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 10, 2012, 06:22:36 am
How many Super Bowls would Troy have without being able to call audibles?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-aikman-skeptical-of-shift-from-martz-to-tice-20120109,0,3845201.story

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 10, 2012, 07:59:07 am
Did any of you watch the BCS Championship last night?

That Bama defense...  just wow.  I haven't seen a crew like that since...  well...  the 85 Bears.

I'll take their DC for the Bears please, and he can bring 3 or 4 of his players with, too.   8)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 10, 2012, 09:25:08 am
Funny you should bring that up. The sportscasters down here were comparing them to the 85 Bears defense.  "you simply were not going to score on them".
What happened?  Oh yeah. The McCaskeys. Enjoy your money you effete losers.  Even today, their faces scream, "take my lunch money and give me a swirly".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 10, 2012, 10:34:36 am
Rams are interviewing GM candidates from the Titans and Falcons.

Bears are interviewing...  no one.

Ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 10, 2012, 10:38:05 am
For those compelled there is an article in the sun times about butt buddy that is nothing more than a paid press release. I can't bring myself to even post it. There are no interviews. Why should they? They got their man.  Watch him bring Angelo back as a "consultant".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 10, 2012, 10:39:20 am
Good, honest analysis of the Bears DL this past year.

http://discussions.chicagotribune.com/20/chinews/chi-bears-analysis-defensive-line-disappointed-20120110/10

Bottom line, for the amount of dollars and draft picks invested the past several years, the unit underperformed.  I had high hopes after the dominant opening game against the Falcons, but for most of the rest of the season it was too few and far between as far as the DL playing a major positive role for the Bears.  If you're sub-par on the front 4 and the back 4, very few defensive systems are going to work consistently no matter how good your LBs are -- and even more so LoviNelli's system. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 10, 2012, 11:12:54 am
Not only has there been no apparent movement on interviewing GM candidates...

We also have not taken any steps (reported, anyway) towards replacing our QB coach OR in finding a new OL coach to take Tice's former duties.

W*T*F are they doing up there in Halas Hall anyway?  Did they give everybody the month off or something? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 10, 2012, 11:55:26 am
Maybe we could find a way to take this guy off the Lions' hands...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/10/cliff-avril-wants-to-stay-in-detroit-but-lions-line-is-getting-expensive/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 10, 2012, 12:36:22 pm
  Watch him bring Angelo back as a "consultant".

Ok, that would be funny and sad at the same time.  I would have to burn every Bears item I own if that happened.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 10, 2012, 12:44:16 pm
Even if Ruskell isn't hired as GM, it really concerns me that he has been left him in charge of the draft preparations. 

I said yesterday that the success or failure of this upcoming draft could very well dictate this team's fortunes for the next 3 to 5 years. It is much too critical a draft for a hack with Ruskell's track record to have even a finger in the process, yet until and unless another GM is named, he's running the show.

If we drag the GM search out too much longer, then the new GM not only will have no say over the coaching, but he'll be handcuffed in personnel evaluation as well because his prep time leading up to the draft will be so short.  Knowing how Halas Hall works, I can totally see us bringing in a new GM and there on his desk is a list of the draft "recommendations" that will have been made for him (by Ruskell, God help us)... and it will be very hard for him to deviate too far from that because there won't be enough time to blow up the draft board and start from scratch. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 10, 2012, 03:09:31 pm
I think thats a legitimate concern. Again thats a Lovie hire, not a GM hire. Lovie wants to get off the bus running. Thats why Lovie and staff need to go. I expect to see Ruskell promoted to GM too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 10, 2012, 04:46:02 pm
Hmmm...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/10/titans-wont-let-bears-talk-to-their-quarterbacks-coach/

Not sure this is such a great loss.  The Titans' QB play (and offense in general) has hardly been that special the last few years. 

Wonder what's the deal with Bates?  Supposedly Angelo was the reason he turned us down the first time so I'm thinking it can't hurt to at least try again now.

You got this Titans guy, before that the Jags guy.  I mean really...  would it be too much to hire a passing coordinator / QB coach from a team that actually had a decent passing offense and whose QBs were... you know... GOOD? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 10, 2012, 09:12:09 pm
Not only has there been no apparent movement on interviewing GM candidates...

We also have not taken any steps (reported, anyway) towards replacing our QB coach OR in finding a new OL coach to take Tice's former duties.

W*T*F are they doing up there in Halas Hall anyway?  Did they give everybody the month off or something? 

Clearly they are deciding on which search firm  to hire to search for their GM
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 10, 2012, 09:19:02 pm
You have to look very slowly for a search firm so you make the right decision...

Yeah this thing is getting old for me also.  I have no problem if they don't hire someone right away.  I am pissed because they are not interviewing anyone. 

Most teams would have had a short list of promising GM's they want to interview before they fired Angelo.  What is taking so long?

Surely they know at least 5 guys they want to interview.  Interview them already! 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 10, 2012, 09:24:19 pm
Unless all the guys they want to talk to are still involved in the playoffs. But that didn't stop the Raiders.

This is starting to smell a lot like the whole CF that brought us Martz.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 10, 2012, 09:28:35 pm
Yapper, Agreed!

I am hoping the passing coach they want to hire is from New England, New Orleans or Green Bay and that is why they are dragging their feet there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 10, 2012, 10:17:54 pm

 So I asked this in another forum ....

 Did the pick we traded to Denver for Cutler get Denver Tebow?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 10, 2012, 10:25:07 pm
NO
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 11, 2012, 05:29:01 am
Most teams would have had a short list of promising GM's they want to interview before they fired Angelo.

Agree! Remember, we have a non football person making football decisions.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 11, 2012, 07:21:16 am
we have a business guy making business decisions.
He needs to hire the best GM candidate out there and does not need to use the good ole boy network.

I expect a couple of the guys they want to interview are still in the playoffs.

I like the idea of Dorsey from the Packers. He is high in their scouting dept and they scout/draft as well as any team in the league at least on the offensive side.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 11, 2012, 04:04:16 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/11/irsay-introduces-g-m-grigson-says-decision-on-caldwell-is-coming/

Another team that's gonna let their new GM clean out the coaching staff if he sees fit.

But yet Lovie is untouchable.

Unbelievable.

Since Lovie Smith is now the de facto GM of the Bears they might as well just hold a presser and make it official. 

Then in April Ruskell can draft all the Tampa 2 defenders Lovie tells him to, we can pinch pennies in FA, finish 7-9 in 2012 with Cutler injured for the 3rd straight season, and then in 2013 McCaskey and Phillps will launch the whole crew plus Cutler and Forte and we'll be rebuilding both sides of the ball for the next 3-5 years.  Brilliant.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 11, 2012, 04:16:06 pm
You keep acting shocked this is happening.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 11, 2012, 04:37:13 pm
We've still got three positions to fill... 

- The GM

- The QB Coach / "Passing Coordinator"  (offense by committee... really?  ::)  )

- An OL Coach (unless the cheapskates in Halas Hall plan on Tice to keep doing that, too)

On top of which, there's a draft and a FA season to prepare for and we need big-time upgrades at several positions.

The Bears' season has been over for almost two weeks by now.  The boys in Halas Hall need to get on the stick cause there's a lot of work to do this offseason and time's a-wastin.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 11, 2012, 05:33:50 pm
No word on Taub yet?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 11, 2012, 06:22:47 pm
Oh yeah forgot about Toub too. Apparently he didnt get the Miami gig... unless he's the fallback to Fisher.

If we have to replace him as well, we're really up against it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 11, 2012, 07:15:34 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8563

Finally some news on the GM front.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 11, 2012, 09:16:36 pm
I actually really like that slate of candidates. Getting the guy from the Patriots would be a major score. That team finds quality players from everywhere and hardly ever makes a mistake on a player. Giants and Chargers also have solid rosters year after year. The Chiefs guy is probably the weakest one of the lot at least if you're judging by the quality of each teams roster. Hopefully the Lovie thing is a non issue to at least one of them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 11, 2012, 09:23:42 pm
Ross and Licht from the Giants and Pats sound good...forget the other two.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 11, 2012, 09:35:01 pm
Ruskell will be the man.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 11, 2012, 09:59:42 pm
Hey we agree again Phill.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 11, 2012, 10:07:56 pm
I don't see it happening with the Pats guy. A half hour with George, Ginny and sweaty Teddy will scare him off and if that doesn't do it, the next half hour with Lovie will. We can dream though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 08:46:23 am
On second thought, pass on the Chiefs guy.

Tribune says he's been with the Bears once before... when he gave a 1st round grade to Rex Grossman even though most other scouting departments had him a mid-2nd rounder at best.  And we all know how Grossman turned out.

No thanks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 12, 2012, 09:39:42 am
I still think if we had a decent line back then that Rex would have been a winner.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 09:56:50 am
Actually the OL we had when Rex was here wasn't all that bad.  Better by far than the units we've had the last few years. 

Not to mention that Grossman has been on two teams since the Bears and hasn't done any better with them than he did with us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 12, 2012, 10:14:34 am
If he committed himself to strength conditioning - he might impress us
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 11:13:47 am
Grossman didn't / doesn't have the physical tools to play NFL QB.  Plain and simple. Frankly I'm not sure how he's stuck around in the league so long.

On another note...  is anyone else quite unimpressed with this list of QB coach candidates being floated around?  The guy from Jacksonville? The guy from Tampa?  Really?   Man, those are some bad, boring offenses (at least in the passing game, which this guy is supposedly also going to head-up).  And except for Josh Freeman's decent year last year, lots of average to bad QB play on those clubs too.

I really would like to see a guy that can come in here and take Cutler to the level or Brady, Brees, Rogers etc. instead of dragging him down to the level of the mediocre QBs that are all over this league.

BTW Bucs fans are really happy that Olson got the boot in Tampa.  That should be a red flag right there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 12, 2012, 11:18:20 am
Say no to Olson!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 11:31:35 am
Olson has a Tampa tie-in so he's probably got the inside track.   :-[
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 11:32:55 am
The really scary thing is that Jax and Tampa play in good weather year-round and their QBs and passing game still suck azz.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 12, 2012, 11:53:59 am
They need to bring in Bates. He has a Cutler connection and they did well when he was the QB coach in Denver.
I think he even called the plays at least part of the time in Denver.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 12:14:35 pm
The fact that Bates is clearly the best hire...  yet hasn't been hired yet...  makes me think it's not gonna happen.

I'm betting it's a) the money isn't good enough; b ) he doesn't want to work with Lovie/Tice; c) he had a bad enough experience with Halas Hall the first time around he doesn't want anything to do with them again; or d) all of the above. 

Another possibility is that Bates may have very strong ideas (which may very well be correct) as to what kind of player upgrades are needed on the Bears offense and Lovie/Tice/Phillips may not be looking for yet another person offering input on personnel matters. If Bates thinks J'Marcus Webb sucks while Tice thinks Webb is great...  well then, that could cause problems. 

Also keep in mind he hasn't been employed by ANYONE since he got bounced from the Seahawks.  So maybe he's just not that eager to get back to work, at least in a coaching capacity. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on January 12, 2012, 03:08:01 pm
The Chiefs have drafted well the past 3-4 years...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 12, 2012, 03:11:40 pm
With them I think it's more a percieved deficiency. They may draft well but when were they last in the playoffs or how many times-last year and back in 03?? While the other two are regularly in the playoffs AND the Super Bowl.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 03:20:36 pm
The Chiefs have drafted well the past 3-4 years...

Meh...  Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson, both Top 5 picks for KC and both very average.  f you've got two Top 5 picks on your DL that should be a world-class unit and for the Chiefs, it really isn't.  In particular I remember the Tyson Jackson pick being a huge surprise and considered by most as a major reach. OTOH that Berry guy is good (when he's healthy), and same deal with Jamaal Charles.  And it's not the director of scouting's fault the Chiefs had Matt Cassell as their QB... that was somebody else's call.

My bigger issue with the Chiefs guy is that he lobbied for the Bears to draft Grossman when he was with us the first time.  That alone should disqualify him.

The other thing is while the Chiefs have drafted relatively high for a number of recent years, teams like the Patriots and the Giants are consistently picking in the bottom 3rd of the round and still finding very good players. That says a lot to me.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 12, 2012, 03:24:33 pm
Grossman was a pretty good QB when he wasn't fumbling the ball and throwing int's,lol....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 03:37:06 pm
Speaking of Grossman (not really)...

The one personnel issue nobody has really been talking about for the Bears is backup QB.

With Martz gone, so in all likelihood is McCown.  Hanie is a gimme to be cut, and Enderle will be lucky to last as the #3 if he survives the offseason at all.  If we're going to drop big FA money on a WR and/or LT, that's not going to leave a whole lot for a quality backup QB.  OTOH with Cutler having finished his last two seasons injured, backup QB is really not a position where we can afford to scrimp.  It very literally cost us the playoffs this season. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 12, 2012, 03:48:46 pm
there will be some guys available in FA this year we could pick up for a backup.
For my #2, I want a veteran who has been around awhile that can step in and win a few games for you.
For my #3, I want a young guy you are grooming.
Maybe McCown is the right guy. I would expect if you can do OK in a Martz system you can work in most other systems.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 12, 2012, 03:58:30 pm
Would LOVE to have Orton backing Cut up. What we saw this season wouldn't have happened with Orton in there. Problem is he probably wants a starting job and won't be cheap....two strikes in this game, you're out....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 12, 2012, 04:06:38 pm
Man I don't know about McCown.  The guy wasn't even playing pro ball till the Bears called him up. If he was that adaptable to a non-Martz scheme, and if he had legit skills, I would think he would have been on somebody's roster this last season as poor as the QB situation was for a lot of teams.

Plus he's like 31 years old and that's pretty old to be learning a new system especially when you've been running the same one your entire career up till now.

And you're right... Orton's a pipe dream.  No way he'll come back to a team where he's guaranteed to be a #2 when there are several teams that will give him the chance to start, including the team he finished the season with. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 12, 2012, 10:14:51 pm
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/a_brandon_marshall_jay_cutler_reunion/9302147

Wouldn't this be interesting?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 13, 2012, 05:56:54 am
Yes its interesting that they'd like to get back together, but the question is what would it cost the Bears? The other question is would the Bears even consider doing it? I'd think a bright intelligent new GM might do it. If I were to guess I'd say that it wouldnt happen till after the draft as the Bears have a lot of holes and likely wouldnt do it with a pick from this years draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 13, 2012, 08:09:08 am
I'd give the higher of our two 3rd round picks this year for Marshall.  But only if we can't land Vincent Jackson or Colston in FA.

If Marshall's gonna cost more than that, we might as well just spend our 1st rounder on a guy like Floyd or Jeffery and get a guy with low mileage that can hopefully be here awhile.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 13, 2012, 08:27:48 am
Sh!t...

http://discussions.chicagotribune.com/20/chinews/ct-spt-0113-bears-chicago--20120113/10

Looks like Bates won't be even be interviewed.

Looks like Cutler is in for another year of frustration and regression.  Enjoy him while you can, Bears fans, cause the day his contract is up he's jumping this ship of fools and will sign for huge coin with a real team.   

Cutler could have been playing this weekend for a team that had half a clue what they were doing...  and be taking a tenth of the punishment to his body in the process.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 13, 2012, 11:32:33 am
I am more concerned with this GM business rather than the QB coach crapola. The QB coach crap is only going to last one more season. The GM search is much more important.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 13, 2012, 11:41:01 am
Sh!t...

http://discussions.chicagotribune.com/20/chinews/ct-spt-0113-bears-chicago--20120113/10

Looks like Bates won't be even be interviewed.

Looks like Cutler is in for another year of frustration and regression.  Enjoy him while you can, Bears fans, cause the day his contract is up he's jumping this ship of fools and will sign for huge coin with a real team.   

Cutler could have been playing this weekend for a team that had half a clue what they were doing...  and be taking a tenth of the punishment to his body in the process.

The reason they want Olson is because they think it is the TE that used to be a Bear and is Cutlers best buddy.  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 13, 2012, 02:17:48 pm
I am more concerned with this GM business rather than the QB coach crapola. The QB coach crap is only going to last one more season. The GM search is much more important.

Typically the GM would be involved in choosing the QB coach but Halas Hall always does things backwards so I fully expect the QB coach position will be filled first.

Or the "GM" position is already filled in the form of Tim Ruskell...  as many of us suspect and fear.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 13, 2012, 02:25:21 pm
I'm not expecting anything to be filled.  Right now, somebody with the last name of McCaskey is whispering in Virgina's ear that the Bears have all the non McCaskey personnel they need. Why waste the money?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 13, 2012, 03:25:02 pm
I think the head coach should fill out his staff.
The GM oversees the coach, scouting dept, pro player personnel.

The GM and HC need to be in agreement for good harmony but I think the HC should find the right fit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 13, 2012, 03:29:12 pm
If Lovie is allowed to pick the QB Coach / Passing Game coordinator again, it will be a disaster.

Look at the last two duos he brought in.  Turner and Pep Hamilton were awful and had no business being anywhere around an NFL franchise.  Martz and Shane Day were just as bad, but in a different way.

In baseball it's three strikes and you're out but two whiffs is plenty in this case.  It's Tice's azz that's really in a sling here so let the decision be his and the GMs...  loop Lovie out and just let him keep worrying about his precious little Tampa 2 D.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 13, 2012, 03:29:56 pm
Exactly right.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 13, 2012, 03:44:57 pm
I am pretty sure Lovie has it set up so he is in complete control of his staff, the GM has no say so.  I only hope he lets Tice have SOME say on who he picks. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 13, 2012, 04:46:20 pm
Uh-oh...

Hearing rumors that Toub is heading back down to Miami this weekend for a 2nd interview.  Losing him yet would be all we need...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 13, 2012, 04:53:34 pm
Count on it.  The engineer of the train has changed, but its still on the same tracks headed over the cliff again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 13, 2012, 04:53:52 pm
Back to the QB Coach, I think one of the challenges we will have is that a guy like Cutler really doesn't need a lot of work on his technicals, or reading defenses, or any of that "developmental" stuff.  He's a seasoned veteran with Top-5 skills.  What he needs more than anything is an advocate with the OC and an extra set of eyes on the sidelines to help him process what the defense is doing on the field.  Really more of an "in-game consultant" than a coach per se.

OTOH we also have a guy like Enderle (or whoever we pick up to replace him as our developmental process), and with him we're very much starting from scratch.  Here's how you drop back, here's how you read defenses, etc.   And then he's also got to be a guy that can work with our #2, whoever that winds up being.  And on top of all that figure, out a way to coordinate things with Tice on the running / blocking side so playcalling runs smoothly and we don't have the recurring sideline clusterf**ks we saw with Martz (plays slow coming in, wasted timeouts, etc.).

So it's not gonna be the easiest gig in the world, and it's going to take a guy with a very specialized skill set to succeed in it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 13, 2012, 05:10:10 pm
I'm guessing these guys are waiting on someone from a playoff team. Then when that person turns 'em down, they'll be standing there looking like the jacka$$es that they are..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 13, 2012, 05:37:08 pm
I suspect that they are talking to some HCs but find none interested in going to a team without having the necessary authority to do the job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 13, 2012, 10:25:42 pm
If Lovie is allowed to pick the QB Coach / Passing Game coordinator again, it will be a disaster.

...In which case the Bears will fail and Lovie will be replaced next year. If they go through with an outside GM then any coaching change next year will be up to the new GM. Supposedly the only restriction on the new GM is Lovie is to remain the coach next season
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 13, 2012, 10:34:17 pm
I think the qb coach can help Cutler with his footwork and fundamentals, when they get out of sync.  Even Brady has someone who tells him when he is doing little things wrong.  And we have all seen Cutler throw off his back foot enough.  Just saying. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 13, 2012, 10:38:03 pm

 Until we have a GM ... the rest is dreams.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on January 14, 2012, 06:33:56 am
Boogie - Could observation on the footwork piece.  Probably much like a pitcher is corrected by the catcher or pitching coach in baseball when he starts to lose his release point.

Regarding Bates, sounds like he ticked off Lovie by not coming to interview at all.  I have no problem with Lovie saying no thanks now.  At least go and hear what he had to say, and he would have likely been in position to interview again...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 14, 2012, 08:05:48 am
At this point, it should be what's best for Cutler and the team..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 14, 2012, 08:54:52 am
Reportedly, Bates passed the first time because Angelo turned him off. Which is an entirely reasonable response. Now with Angelo out of the way I bet Bates would have listened, but Lovie mixed it.

Seems to me like Lovies being the unreasonable one in this situation, and we will wind up again with less than the best because of it.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 14, 2012, 09:04:41 am
Remember under acheivers, DONT HIRE YOUR REPLACMENT.  You never hire somebody who you think might be remotely  better than you.  Flunkies only, thank you.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 14, 2012, 11:21:05 am
I'm sure that's why chico's contract wasn't renewed..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 14, 2012, 12:25:24 pm
Yup.  It's the kind of petty, tit-for-tat BS that has marked Lovie's regime all along and that the McCaskeys enable. It keeps the Bears decades behind the elite teams and makes their organization a running joke in the league.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 14, 2012, 11:11:01 pm

 
Yup.  It's the kind of petty, tit-for-tat BS that has marked Lovie's regime all along and that the McCaskeys enable. It keeps the Bears decades behind the elite teams and makes their organization a running joke in the league.

 What sucks is 11-5 last year and the NFC Championship.

 We CAN show we can be there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on January 15, 2012, 07:56:52 am
I would agree with that observation about Lovie, he seemingly never hires the person that could replace him.  A lot of us wanted Singletary to be considered for a position on the staff, Lovie would have nothing to do with that.  Now if Tice does well, then what?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 15, 2012, 02:36:14 pm
In general, I do not like the policy of promoting from within for the coaching staff.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 15, 2012, 07:36:29 pm
usually with a HC, you clean house.
If we hired an OC that did well, after 2yrs he would likely HC somewhere else.
If he did bad then Lovie would get rid of him
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 16, 2012, 08:55:17 am
Still no GM

Still no QB coach

Still no OL coach

Just another productive weekend for the boys at Halas Hall. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 16, 2012, 09:02:21 am
They're busy watching the playoffs
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 16, 2012, 09:13:43 am
Well, the staffs of the Broncos, Texans, Saints and Packers are now fair game so it's time to get on it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 16, 2012, 09:22:23 am
We dodged one bullet...  Dirk Koetter, former QB coach for the Jaguars, has been hired by the Falcons to be their OC.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 16, 2012, 09:45:29 am
Well I'm glad to see they were busy doing something.  Probably had the Bears coaching staff with them to point out the details of the games, and since they are completely incapable themselves, hit the pause buttons and change channels.  Mickey had snacks brought in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 16, 2012, 04:18:54 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-report-exbears-oc-martz-to-retire-20120116,0,5772676.story

Martz retires.  I'm gonna guess interest in him was pretty low after the world saw his "genius" get a franchise QB beaten to a pulp for no appreciable gain the last two years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 16, 2012, 05:00:25 pm
GOOD!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-interview-patriots-licht-for-gm-job-20120116,0,4438600.story

This guy is by far and away the best candidate on the Bears list although the guy from the Giants wouldn't suck either.  Year after year the Patriots draft far down in the order and year after year they turn up guys who can play...  and not 3 or 4 years down the road like Angelo's redshirt "projects", but right away.

Angelo left the the new Bears GM with a monumental task, but if the new guy can get our roster turned around in a hurry -- and bring some football sense and sanity to the nuthouse that is Halas Hall -- he will never pay for a meal or a drink in Chicago again.

I just hope the McCaskeys, Teddy and Lovie don't scare off all the good ones.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 16, 2012, 05:14:28 pm
I stopped drinking the Martz KoolAid during the 2010 season but I'm not going to pile on the guy too much.  In Cutler's last 5 games this year (all wins) he was sacked only 5 times and threw for 7 TDs and 3 interceptions (one of which for sure wasn't his fault).  Bears put up 39, 24, 30, 37, and 31 points (not all of that was Bears offense), but the offense passing and the running game were clicking before Cutler went down.

Bears did struggle when Martz had to coach with Cutler's backup Hanie but some of those games should have been wins and couldn't be pinned on Hanie or Martz.

I think most will agree that the Bears need a new direction on offense along with some better talent to help Cutler and the offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 16, 2012, 05:19:26 pm
I agree.

They need to get the O-line solidified and they need a true #1 WR who teams have to game plan to stop and who will still get his yards.  That right there would make the offense a force to be reckoned with.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 16, 2012, 05:31:58 pm
I think what doomed Martz' offense in Chicago more than anything (other than the lack of personnel to run it), was his unwillingness to allow Cutler to audible at the line.

Jay Cutler is one of the most intelligent QBs in the game...  as attested to by multiple people who have coached and/or played with him...  and for Martz to effectively reduce Cutler to an automaton on the field was short-sighted, stubborn and frankly, an insult to Cutler.  I completely believe Cutler would have more wins, more TDs -- and far fewer INTs -- on the books during his Bears career if he had been allowed to switch out of plays he knew were doomed to fail as soon as he broke the huddle.

I have no doubt Cutler learned some things under Martz that have made him a better QB...  but I think we could clearly classify the last two years as far more frustrating and painful (literally), than enlightening and productive from Cutler's POV.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 16, 2012, 06:08:18 pm
I think the epitomy was all the needed timeouts because the plays couldnt get to Cuttler in time. That wouldnt have been necessary had Cuttler been able to call his own plays. And maybe Cuttler would have been more successful than Martz
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 16, 2012, 06:32:37 pm

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Cutler call his plays just be able to switch to a new one when he saw fit.

I was thinking of all the things I didn't like about Martz and forgot about the plays coming in late and the lack of audibles.  Of course if the play comes in late then Cutler wouldn't have time to study the defense and make the audible. 

So maybe that's why Martz doesn't do audibles.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 16, 2012, 10:14:00 pm
I think Licht is the right choice absolutely. The guy was with winning clubs. With the Cards when they were good, and with the Pats the same. This guys the ticket....we need him badly....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 16, 2012, 11:36:34 pm

 We start over ... AND SO DO THE PACKERS !

 However the NYG's just keep pulling this shiiit off ...  ???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 17, 2012, 05:05:04 am
Anyone mention Fewell? He was our DB coach, and he's got the Giants D playing pretty darn well..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 17, 2012, 05:24:54 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-playoffs-embarrass-bears-coach-20120116,0,774928.column

Agree!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 17, 2012, 05:50:50 am
Its not just the use of the TE, its his defensive philosophy too that hasnt evolved. The cover 2 is dieing but Lovie wont change. We can only hope and pray that a new GM outside of Halas Hall gets hired and that Lovie only has one more year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 17, 2012, 08:27:19 am
I'm hoping a new GM insists that Lovie go now. Obviously we can do worse than Lovie, but it's time for a change..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 17, 2012, 08:29:49 am
Betcha that ne would be clever enough to work around the Lovester. Betcha.  Which is of course, a strike against him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 17, 2012, 10:27:32 am
I can't believe NE wanted Josh McDaniels back...

He must have some of the video tape  from the Jets practices
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 17, 2012, 10:33:57 am
I think Licht is the right choice absolutely. The guy was with winning clubs. With the Cards when they were good, and with the Pats the same. This guys the ticket....we need him badly....

I think I read that Belechik has final/ultimate say over all personel in NE.  And that Licht wasnt even allowed in the draft room.  He MAY not be all that, just saying. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 17, 2012, 10:38:24 am
McDaniels was a good OC for them (but a lousy HC in Den), I think they were losing their OC to be HC of a college team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 17, 2012, 10:51:20 am
The guy from the Giants is also worth a good long look for the GM gig.

The Giants are similar to the Bears in philosophy and they have drafted very well over the years in the areas we've repeatedly failed, i.e., WR, OL and DL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 17, 2012, 11:13:47 am
that's a good point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 17, 2012, 11:22:20 am
Nothing reported yet in the Chicago media but apparently the Bears have asked the Vikings for permission to interview their QBs Coach.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on January 17, 2012, 11:36:18 am
And they expect permission to be granted the day after refusing the Vikings permission to interview John Hoke?

WTF?????
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 17, 2012, 12:18:05 pm
And they expect permission to be granted the day after refusing the Vikings permission to interview John Hoke?

WTF??


I know. The arrogance and just plain lack of common sense that emanates out of Halas Hall in situations like this just astounds me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 17, 2012, 12:33:13 pm
Interesting how the Chicago media is already trying to discredit (or at best, manage expectations) on the guy we interviewed from the Patriots.

it's also difficult to discern how much Licht has been responsible for any of the Patriots' moves because Belichick typically relies on most staff members only for information gathering.

Licht, in fact, has not even had a seat in the Patriots' exclusive draft room.


The fact of the matter is, the person who fetches coffee for Bill Belichick's secretary knows more about running a good football organization than anyone at Halas Hall.  That's how far ahead of the Bears the Pats organization is.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 17, 2012, 02:04:14 pm
Toub extended 2 years.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/17/bears-sign-dave-toub-to-two-year-contract/

I like Toub, but the 2-year thing doesn't make any sense.  If Lovie gets launched next offseason that means the new HC either has to take Toub for a year, or the McCaskeys have to eat the last year of the contract.

At this point Toub should be year-to-year like the rest of Lovie's staff.  Let the whole staff know they've got one year to turn this thing around or we're starting from scratch in 2013.  But I guess that would make too much sense.

It could also mean the next Bears HC has already been chosen, and it's Toub.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 17, 2012, 02:08:07 pm
Ya know what....hmm....that may not be a bad thing AT all. His unit is consistently near the top in the NFL in performance. I like it...make it happen today! I'd take Toub ohhhh like NOW....bye bye Lovie dovie....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 17, 2012, 02:21:50 pm

I like Toub, but the 2-year thing doesn't make any sense.

Toub is a free agent and can negotiate with ANY NFL team.  The Bears had to make an attractive offer and regardless of whether Lovie is here or not in 2013 what new NFL coach wouldn't want Toub on his staff.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 17, 2012, 03:36:28 pm
Totally agree.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 17, 2012, 04:08:25 pm
Yep! Who knows, could be the next head coach..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 17, 2012, 04:12:01 pm
All correct, but the more of these coaching moves that are made pre- the new GM, the less authority the new GM has to re-make this team as he sees fit going forward.  Ergo, a GM position that is already not very attractive loses even more of its appeal to anyone of any quality.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 17, 2012, 04:24:32 pm
I can't imagine a new GM not wanting Toub.  Take the chance and pay the man before someone else does. Worst case, they eat his contract. They've already said Lovie will be back next season. What's the risk? They eat one year?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 17, 2012, 04:42:17 pm
Toub is good...  along with Tice, the only other coach on the Bears staff who really knows what he's doing.  And yes, I would like to see him retained even after Lovie leaves.

That being said, these are all moves that should have been made post- and not pre- the hiring of the GM.  Things continue to get done ass-backwards at Halas Hall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 17, 2012, 10:50:47 pm
I don't know why you're complaining about the Toub signing with or without a new GM.  Good move by the brass in my opinion.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 17, 2012, 11:29:41 pm
Tice to interview for Raiders HC job
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 18, 2012, 12:17:30 am
OUR Tice? Thought he took the OC job???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on January 18, 2012, 04:51:17 am
LOL ... If Tice gets promoted to Raider HC, reset to 2 years ago when they had to beg somebody just to interview to be Lovie's lame duck OC. 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Raiders-request-permission-to-interview-Mike-Tice.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 18, 2012, 08:07:30 am
No doubt...  if Tice gets the Raiders gig our OL is back to square one which basically means our O is dead in the water.

And I don't think the Bears can block the interview since it's a HC position being offered.

OTOH I highly doubt Tice will be offered the job out there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 18, 2012, 08:43:52 am
He didn't do too well in Minnesota as HC - but then again - Belichek bombed as HC in Cleveland way back when...

If Tice goes to the Raaidahs - who can Lovie promote to QB coach/OC/OL Coach/GM?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 18, 2012, 08:56:09 am
Yeah if we lose Tice then we are way, way behind the curve as far as staffing up.

OTOH, it might give the dolts at Halas Hall initiative to do the hirings in the right order, i.e.:

- GM first

- GM selects (or at least, has input into) the OC

- OC has input into the QB coach and OL coach hirings

It also might give us a chance to hire an OC that can handle the whole load and not have this ridiculous split-out between running and passing coordinators as would be the case with Tice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 18, 2012, 09:03:57 am
I would be seriously surprised if Tice were hired for the HC job at the Raiders..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on January 18, 2012, 09:31:47 am
If Tice were the right guy for the Raiders gig, the chaos it would create in Halas Hall would be nice parting gift to the Packers from Reggie McKenzie, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 18, 2012, 10:41:38 am

Don't get me wrong - I like Tice.  Having him return does bring back his familiarity with our players and the system they went through, plus you'll know he'll have input into the offensive line.

BUT, has he ever called plays before?  Does he even have an offensive philosophy and his own playbook or is he just going to borrow Martz' and use that for the basis for HIS offense.

I agree with yapper that we need to get the new GM in ASAP, regardless of Tice's future.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 18, 2012, 10:47:01 am
No doubt...  if Tice gets the Raiders gig our OL is back to square one which basically means our O is dead in the water.

When has the OL ever been to square 2?  The line has looked as bad as they did last year.  Not sure that losing Tice is a big deal personally.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 18, 2012, 10:58:11 am
Tice has the best understanding of Cutler's strengths and limitations, and I have to assume, has a level of rapport with him.  That would be a lot to give up on the verge of what is basically the make-or-break year of Cutler's career with the Bears (if not the league). 

If we have to bring someone in from the outside (assuming we can even get someone to take the gig), the process starts all over again.  And if we saddle Cutler with a 3rd incompatible OC, he'll bolt this loony bin the day his contract is up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 18, 2012, 11:17:10 am
I think they will finish the GM interviews this week and have a GM picked by next week.  If Tice does leave, it will be a total cluster.  Seriously who could Lovie get to come in, knowing it could be only a 1 year gig.  Lame, very lame.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 18, 2012, 11:49:21 am
I bet if Tice leaves they just give up and promote Daryl Drake to OC.

Which still leaves us minus an OL coach but with a hack like Drake running the offense would it really matter?

Todd Haley also is still out there but honesty, I'm hoping this is all much ado about nothing.  Some people may not be real fond of having Tice as the OC but considering the alternatives I think it's the best we can hope for.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 18, 2012, 01:10:07 pm
The BEST thing about having Daryl Drake be the OC is that ANYONE else would be coaching the WRs.  Period.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 18, 2012, 01:17:09 pm
Interesting that we have interviewed GM candidates from the Patriots and the Chargers and with both of those guys, apparently they haven't ever really been closely involved in their team's actual drafts.  Essentially they are scouts with an executive title.  They've made recommendations on personnel, which have either been accepted or ignored and we don't really know which.  Which makes it a bit harder to evaluate them by strictly looking at their teams' rosters.

Seems to me we'd really want someone as a GM that has actually pulled the trigger on a draft or three under live fire. Otherwise we're just hiring someone that's basically been a yes-man to their respective bosses, but giving them a bigger title.  Which unfortunately may be the best we can do and exactly what Lovie and Phillips want.

That all being said, I would hate to make the GM hire without at least talking to the guy from the Giants first.  Yeah they've gotten as far as they have this year with great coaching, but that is a solid roster they've put together out there too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 18, 2012, 01:49:27 pm
I would think we need a GM candidate who has been on the scouting level of a successful organization.
Our FA's seem to do pretty good, I think that FA is usually easier than the draft.
I think we knew what we were getting with Julius Peppers, one of the most dominant DE's in the league that sometimes seems to disappear.
I think we knew that Marion Barber would be a good solid bruising running back that could get the tough yards and punish defenses but couldn't carry the load by himself.
I think we knew that Roy Williams and Okoye were guys with lots of potential that either never lived up to expectations or weren't a good fit for the scheme they were in.

Tim Jennings was a JAG as a cover 2 corner who has done pretty well for the most part.
Spencer was a JAG as a OL who has also filled in pretty well.

The GM can't scout all the players. I don't know much about the whole process but I expect they get feedback from the scouting dept and and form a draft chart based on the reports from the scouts and how they mesh with the schemes.
They consider things like skills, character and injury history.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 18, 2012, 02:00:22 pm
No question, talent evaluation (particular regarding the draft) is an area where Angelo and those under him failed miserably for many years...  and our current roster reflects that.

My only point being, once you're on the clock on Draft Day it's a whole nother thing in the war room compared to scouting and it would be nice if we could get someone who's actually been in that environment (if not actually pulling the trigger). But with the conditions we're putting on our GM that may not be possible and we'll just have to hope he's up to it in the war room.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 18, 2012, 02:09:58 pm
hopefully they put together a plan with list of guys and go from there. If they play by the script that should be safe.
I guess the exception would be if  a guy you really like fell a few spots ahead of you do you trade up? If no one is of real value (or there are several guys you have rated evenly) when it is your pick do you trade down?

If that WR that got busted with weed drops down a few spots ahead of us I wouldn't mind using one of our 3rds to go after him but I wouldn't give up the farm.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 18, 2012, 02:22:02 pm
Exactly, the trade-up / trade-down scenario.  That's where I could see a lack of war room experience really being a liability.

As long as things go according to "script" it's probably not that big of a deal, but how often do things go as planned and especially for the Bears?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 18, 2012, 07:07:43 pm
This guy looks like a strong possibility. Marc Ross

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0119-gm-bears-chicago--20120119,0,1426625.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 18, 2012, 07:09:01 pm
I would be seriously surprised if Tice were hired for the HC job at the Raiders..

Same here.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 18, 2012, 10:26:55 pm
Whoever they get-outside Ruskell of course-for GM, I'm going to reserve judgement till after the draft. If he drafts what we need,recievers and linemen and corner,it will be miles ahead of the last......you know.....clown....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 19, 2012, 12:35:17 am

ROSS from NYG's
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 19, 2012, 08:11:42 am
This Ross guy, in contrast to the first two guys we interviewed, actually has experience in the war room, running drafts.

That makes him the clearly superior candidate to the others we've interviewed so far, IMO.

He's also an Ivy Leaguer (Princeton), which should get him in good with the McCaskeys.

The last two left to interview -- Ruskell, and the Chiefs guy who recommended Grossman while he was with the Bears before -- are clearly the dregs and I hope their interviews are merely a formality.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 19, 2012, 10:13:21 am
I hope Ross gets the job. He sounds like just what we need. I liked that article I posted above
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 19, 2012, 10:24:20 am
Ross sounds like a keeper to me, as well.

Which probably means he'll turn us down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 19, 2012, 10:26:57 am
I just hope they offer him the job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 19, 2012, 10:55:25 am
I think Ross will get us the talent we so desperately need.  He would be my first choice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 19, 2012, 11:13:28 am
My first choice too
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 19, 2012, 11:48:52 am
Really sounds good to me.  Again, if he gets the offer, and if he accepts, he better have the skill sets to manuver around the rocks in the water if you know what I mean. Priority 1, make sure Virginia likes you. Priority 2, see Priority 1.  After Virginia it won't matter as the mess will be flung into the abyss anyway.  Geroge will be off in a corner cutting out paper dolls wanting it to go all away, Mikey will be arranging plants outside his office, and God help us, Ted will have the keys to the chevy. Buckle up for the ride.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 19, 2012, 12:16:11 pm
I would be very confident putting our 2012 draft in Ross' hands.

The Giants are essentially the Bears but with better WRs, better O-Linemen and a younger, more talented defense, particularly pass rushers and cover DBs. Those weak areas of the Bears are all positions of strength on the Giants, and all of which were built primarily through the drafts that Ross played a key role in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 19, 2012, 02:43:31 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/19/forte-cleared-to-play-in-the-pro-bowl/

What does Forte have to gain from playing in the Pro Bowl?  Sounds like he's gonna do it but I don't think it's a good idea at all.

There's a guy named Robert Edwards that could back me up on that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 19, 2012, 03:40:19 pm
What does Forte have to gain from playing in the Pro Bowl?  Sounds like he's gonna do it but I don't think it's a good idea at all.

There's a guy named Robert Edwards that could back me up on that.


He might want to show the Bears and maybe the rest of the league that he's 100%.  Bears might use his injury against him in negotiations.  If he plays and shows he's his hold self then he has more bargaining power for a long term deal.

As for the Pro Bowl, I don't watch the game and I think anyone that plays in that game is risking his career.  The game is a joke - half the guys play it like its 2 handed touch.  I'm surprised there hasn't been more injuries.

As for Edwards, he was playing touch football in the sand.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 19, 2012, 03:42:03 pm
That is a foolish decision on Forte's part, coming off a injury like that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 19, 2012, 04:04:33 pm
As for Edwards, he was playing touch football in the sand.

I know, but if he hadn't be down there for the Pro Bowl he wouldn't have been playing touch football in the sand.

And I agree with you that the Pro Bowl is a joke.  Especially now that it's before the SuperBowl and none of those teams' players can play anyway. They should just do away with the game, name the players and give them their bonuses for that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 19, 2012, 05:04:22 pm
Personally I hope one of the first things our new GM does -- before turning his full attention to the draft -- is to make Forte a Bear for life and put an end to this contract BS that has swirled around the team for way too long already.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on January 20, 2012, 08:24:13 am
Yapper, did you read the Trib today?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on January 20, 2012, 09:43:57 am
Geez, how does Dan Pompeii talk with Tim Ruskell's balls in his mouth?

:   /
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 20, 2012, 09:50:28 am
There is a fluff piece on the Bears official site on Ruskell also. 

They want him to be the GM.  They are just afraid of the backlash from fans so they are trying to prop him up as the best candidate.  It will not work. 

No Bears fan wants Ruskell as GM.  If they were going to do that there was really no point in firing Angelo.  It means they are just moving the deck chairs on the Titanic instead of spending the money neccesary to bring in the best candidate.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 20, 2012, 09:52:45 am
Geez, how does Dan Pompeii talk with Tim Ruskell's balls in his mouth?

:   /

Very funny, and a good question. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 20, 2012, 10:36:38 am
And the circle jerk continues.  incredible.  Those fossils @ Halas hall  are an astounding example of what not to do.  That Giants guy looks really good. GET HIM YOU HEMMROIDS!!!! Pitch Timmy in the phucking river!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 20, 2012, 11:41:52 am
Has there been any interest in the GM job? Usually you hear of "such and such" made a statement saying he's interested in the job but hasn't heard anything from the Bears. It's a crying shame that such a storied franchise has to be run by a bunch a fukking idiots..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 20, 2012, 11:49:42 am
Well that is what happens when you have incompetent people running things.  Here at work a bunch of idiots got into the management ranks, and brought in all of their idiot friends to also be managers.  Things are so messed up it isnt funny.  Then you make it family, and it cant be anything but bad.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 20, 2012, 12:41:49 pm
I don't know how much interest you hear from folks that are still under contract unless they are talking with folks.
The Bears also usually keep things on the down low when possible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 20, 2012, 01:13:35 pm
I heard Hub on the Score this morning. He had some interesting things to say. He said the flaw with all the current cndidates is they are all college scouting guys and not pro player personnel guys. He said guys from college scouting to GM have had trouble making it because their background is solely in college scouting. He was asked to make a case for Ruskell. He said Ruskell has been a GM and he has streamlined the scouting department which appeals to the McCaskets.

Dont remember who said or pointed this out but it was said that Ross is favored by Lovie ( ::) :o)

Also Hub said that they did a list of the most qualified GM candidates that had like 11 names and none of the 5 interviewed by the Bears were among those on their list.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 20, 2012, 01:46:50 pm
"Also Hub said that they did a list of the most qualified GM candidates that had like 11 names and none of the 5 interviewed by the Bears were among those on their list."

Big surprise there.  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 20, 2012, 02:01:37 pm
Keep in mind Hub hates the Bears so take anything he says about them with a grain of salt.  He used to be a total homer (he thought  both Wannstedt and Jauron were wonderful) when he worked for them but since they fired him he hates on them non-stop.  He hates anything and everything they do and constantly picks against them and trys to make them look bad in anyway he can.

I am not saying there is no truth in what he is reporting but just keep in mind how biased he is and why.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 20, 2012, 04:27:46 pm
Hates them? I dont think thats true. He sure appologizes for the McCaskets. He sure tells the truth about them and I'm sure he has insider info. He made a case for the Bears hiring Ruskell today and I have long held the position that Ruskell was the next Bear GM and I heard nothing to discourage that opinion today.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 20, 2012, 06:27:53 pm
Yes Hub Arkush has an axe to grind with the McCaskeys and the Bears organization.  They fired him.

Before that he had his nose so far up their ass he couldn't see the sun.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 20, 2012, 06:37:16 pm

 ROSS or LOSS
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 20, 2012, 07:14:55 pm
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 20, 2012, 4:22 PM EST
 
Getty Images
When the Vikings waived Donovan McNabb shortly after Bears quarterback Jay Cutler got hurt, there was widespread speculation that McNabb would end up in Chicago. Instead, McNabb ended up watching the rest of the season from his couch. And now McNabb says the Bears screwed up by not signing him.
 
“I thought the Bears would call,” McNabb said on ESPN 1000 in Chicago. “So many people continuously talked about the Mike Martz offense and things of that nature. I personally didn’t care about that. If you want to win and win now, you go out and get a better quarterback and you cater your offense to his strengths, and obviously the strengths of your team. Obviously it didn’t work out well for them. It’s unfortunate. I wish things would have worked out, but it didn’t. We will see what happens from now on.”
 
The big question, however, is whether McNabb really would have been a better quarterback for the Bears. McNabb has been a lousy player with the Vikings and Redskins the last two years, and there’s little reason to believe he would have been any better while jumping into a new offense on a new team. The Bears didn’t decide not to claim McNabb because they didn’t want to win, they decided not to claim McNabb for the same reason the NFL’s 31 other teams didn’t want McNabb: They didn’t think he could help them win.
 
Obviously, the Bears botched their backup quarterback situation: They appeared to be on the way to the playoffs before Cutler’s injury, then lost five straight games and were eliminated from playoff contention after Cutler went down. In hindsight, the Bears should have had a better backup than Caleb Hanie in place.
 
But there’s no reason to think McNabb would have been an improvement.

I agree with Smith.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 20, 2012, 09:36:47 pm
I agree with Smith. Its just sour grapes by McNabb.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 21, 2012, 08:37:30 am
I found ths article particularly interesting and informing. Lots of interesting why fors in it. Should be a must read.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/10113684-606/in-house-candidate-tim-ruskell-interviews-for-bears-gm-job.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: rjzebra on January 21, 2012, 11:06:33 am
CAUTION: Read NOTHING written by Sean Jensen!!!!! The guy writes like a 6th grader.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 21, 2012, 12:47:33 pm
So what? Its still important stuff.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 21, 2012, 02:32:15 pm
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 21, 2012, 11:19 AM EST
 

The Bears have interviewed five candidates for their General Manager position, and they won’t interview any more.
 
According to Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times, Chiefs college scouting director Phil Emery the favorite for the job.
 
The other men that interviewed: New England’s Jason Licht, San Diego’s Jimmy Raye, New York’s Marc Ross, and in-house candidate Tim Ruskell.
 
Emery worked for the Bears in 1998-2004 and worked under Ruskell in Atlanta. It’s possible Emery could retain Ruskell on his staff because Ruskell is under contract for two more years. Emery joined Scott Pioli in Kansas City in 2009, coming from Atlanta.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 21, 2012, 02:53:04 pm
So they're gonna pick the one connected TO Ruskell.....oh brother. Well, as I said...I'll TRY to withhold judgement until I see that he's as dumb as Angie OR until he loads us up with true players.....if he's 'The One'...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 21, 2012, 04:34:09 pm

I'll TRY to withhold judgement until I see that he's as dumb as Angie OR until he loads us up with true players

I will too....but that could take years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 21, 2012, 07:25:34 pm
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php

Rumors of Bold Moves for Bears

Published Jan. 15, 2012
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

It is not earth-shattering news to say that the Chicago Bears need wide receiver help. Chicago hasn't had a 1,000-yard wideout since Marty Booker in 2002 under wide receivers coach Todd Haley.

Roy Williams was a free agent bust. He tied Johnny Knox with 27 receptions on the season, the most of any Bear wideout. Williams is a free agent, and it would be a shock if Chicago re-signed him. Earl Bennett is a solid depth receiver, and Devin Hester is a spot player, but the team really needs two new starters. There are rumors going around that Chicago is going to make some bold moves to address the receiver position this offseason.

Under new offensive coordinator Mike Tice, Chicago is expected to have a run-based offense, but they know they need some receivers to work with quarterback Jay Cutler. The Bears are in Cutler's prime years as an NFL quarterback, and they have to get him some receivers that can take advantage of a quality signal-caller.

Chicago is discussed as a team that could make a big run at a free agent receiver. Right now there could be a few good options to pick from: New Orleans' Marques Colston, Kansas City's Dwayne Bowe, San Diego's Vincent Jackson and Buffalo's Steve Johnson could all hit the open market.

One of the rumors that Chicago is being linked to is a big trade in the first round of the 2012 NFL Draft to land Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon. The fast and physical playmaker looks like a young Terrell Owens and a future game-changer. In order for the Bears to get high enough to land Blackmon, they might have to trade away their 2013 first-rounder in a deal similar to what Atlanta did to acquire Julio Jones in the 2011 NFL Draft. The Bears have some extra ammo for a trade as they have two third-round picks because of the Greg Olsen deal.

Another audacious move that is being linked to the Bears concerns their top rival. Green Bay Packers tight end Jermichael Finley could be available on the open market. Some believe that he will be given the franchise tag, and he has previously stated that he is OK with it. But if Finley hits the open market, Chicago is team that some are talking about making a big push to sign him. Former offensive coordinator Mike Martz had no use for a receiving tight end, but Tice is said to believe the opposite. In signing Finley, the Bears would bolster their passing attack and weaken the Packers.
 
Chicago's coaching staff could be under the gun in 2012, as they will have a new general manager who did not hire them. The Bears' championship window with defensive stars Brian Urlacher, Lance Briggs and Julius Peppers is closing. Some major acquisitions to upgrade the offense to make another run at a Super Bowl are necessary for Chicago. Considering that, the rumors of bold moves shouldn't be too surprising.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 21, 2012, 08:18:20 pm
"We shall see said the blind man" Ya gotta have a GM willing to make moves. I dont see 2 3rds as enough to get high enough for Blackmon.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 21, 2012, 08:29:52 pm
Isnt Blackmon supposed to go top 5?  No way we get up that high.  I would rather see them get VJackson and Colston in FA.  We need all the high draft picks we have, lets not start trading them away. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 21, 2012, 09:07:49 pm
the article said use their 2013 1st rounder to trade up for Blackmon.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 21, 2012, 10:02:48 pm
IMHO thats foolish
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 22, 2012, 12:23:18 pm
It’s possible Emery could retain Ruskell on his staff because Ruskell is under contract for two more years.

This would be the worst possible outcome.  I'm not sold on Emery at all, not to mention he's the guy that saddled us with Grossman back when he was with the Bears the first time.

We need to bring in a guy with no previous ties to anyone in the current regime and with experience in a succussful, winning organization. Things have gotten way too inbred in Halas Hall and the results have been showing in the front office and on the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 22, 2012, 12:26:02 pm
One of the rumors that Chicago is being linked to is a big trade in the first round of the 2012 NFL Draft to land Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon.

This would be insane. Not only is Blackmon far from being the 3rd best player available, I'm not even convinced he's the best WR in this class when you also figure in guys like Floyd and Alshon Jeffery.  I hope the new GM looks at what the Falcons got out of trading up for Julio Jones and realizes it's not worth the price.

And the comparisons to T.O. are just wack.  Blackmon is much smaller than T.O., and not as fast.  In fact I really have yet to figure out why so many mock drafts are creaming their shorts over this guy.  If you want the next T.O. (in skills and baggage), then go after Floyd, not Blackmon.

the article said use their 2013 1st rounder to trade up for Blackmon.

I expect that would be in addition to our 2012 pick at 19 overall.  In other words, two 1st round picks.  No thanks, that is way too spendy and especially when we don't even know if Tice and his offense are gonna survive past this year.

Now the Finley idea I like a whole lot better.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 22, 2012, 01:50:46 pm
I'd take my chances with Colston or Steven Jackson before trading up. And I'd definitely see if Finey would sign. He'd be a catch. He is too hard to cover
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 22, 2012, 02:30:38 pm
I would love to show interest and force the Pack into either franchising him or overpaying for him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 22, 2012, 02:34:19 pm
I dont know what his expectations are, but its a lot of money
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 22, 2012, 02:41:09 pm
His stone hands over the last few games didn't help his cause much
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 22, 2012, 04:57:04 pm
it might be cheaper for the Pack to franchise Finley than to pay him, kind of like us and Forte. I doubt he hits the market.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 22, 2012, 07:26:38 pm
Finley has said openly and often that he wants to reman with the Pack.  Not a good idea while bargaining for a contract.  His agent says he wants a long term contract. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 22, 2012, 08:07:28 pm
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Jay-Cutler-Kristin-Cavallari-reportedly-expecting-first-child-012212

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 22, 2012, 08:11:43 pm
Did they get married????
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 22, 2012, 08:13:52 pm
Trib says "fiance". Not yet then.  Evidently that part isn't broken on Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 22, 2012, 08:22:38 pm
They were engaged then Cutler broke it off.  Word was she was still a party girl and he wasn't into that.  Then they got back together, now she is pregnat and apparently they are engaged again. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 23, 2012, 02:58:53 am
Former offensive coordinator Mike Martz had no use for a receiving tight end, but Tice is said to believe the opposite.

Recall that Tice was a TE when he played in the NFL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 08:12:42 am
Correct, and in college he was a QB.

So I think he understands the passing game a little better than some people want to give him credit for.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 23, 2012, 08:20:52 am
With 2 years tutelage under the GENIUS Mrs Doubtfire - he is more than ready to take the next step
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 09:27:26 am
I am far more interested in knowing when Cutler can start throwing a football again than anything about his personal life.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on January 23, 2012, 10:17:10 am
I am interested in who allegedly is making these plans, since they do not presently have a GM.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 10:26:43 am
Presumably the Bears GM will be hired this week.  If you judge by how much the Chicago media has been pumping up each candidate, it will either be Ruskell or Emery.  Not a cause for optimism.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 23, 2012, 10:30:05 am
True....although Emery over Ruskell would be a lot easier to tolerate.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 23, 2012, 10:36:04 am
Shouldn't there be a significant group of Scouting people headed to Mobile AL this week?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/16958863/creers-late-td-gives-west-2417-victory-over-east

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 10:39:20 am
The supposition is that if Emery is hired, he'll keep Ruskell on in some capacity.

The further speculation is that this is the plan at Halas Hall.  They know promoting Ruskell to GM would be immensely unpopular with the fan base, so as their fallback they'll hire the guy that won't fire Ruskell (which would force the McCaskeys to eat the 2 years left on Ruskell's contract).

 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 23, 2012, 10:46:56 am
I hope the first thing the new GM does is look at the O line. We need help with receivers, but it's hard to throw when you're laying on your as$..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 23, 2012, 10:54:37 am
The supposition is that if Emery is hired, he'll keep Ruskell on in some capacity.

The further speculation is that this is the plan at Halas Hall.  They know promoting Ruskell to GM would be immensely unpopular with the fan base, so as their fallback they'll hire the guy that won't fire Ruskell (which would force the McCaskeys to eat the 2 years left on Ruskell's contract).

 

While that is  likely true, it wont be Ruskell drafting. That responsibility will belong to Emery who I believe would be a whole lot better
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 23, 2012, 10:54:55 am
Why, with the Jer's proven ineptness for getting playing talent, do the McCaskeys think he was better at office talent?  Butt buddy trainwrecked Seattle. Why do the Bears choose to forget that?  This is getting more sickening as it goes on. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 11:05:28 am
FWIW Emery had Grossman rated as a 1st round pick and supposedly had a lot of influence in him being drafted by the Bears.

I'm hoping his evaluation skills have improved since then but his body of work with the Chiefs is not that impressive.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 23, 2012, 11:20:52 am
I'll not hold Grossman against Emery.  The scouting and grading has hopefully been corected since then. Plus with better talent around Grossman he could have been a lot more successful with us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 11:26:56 am
Ehhh...  a 6' QB with a dumpy physique, small hands, virtually no running ability and coming out of a system (U of Florida) notorious for producing NFL busts at the QB position?

There were plenty of red flags on Grossman.  I don't give anyone on the Bears a pass for wasting that pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 11:58:46 am
Good for Peppers...  hope he doesn't get hurt.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-peppers-to-replace-pierrepaul-in-pro-bowl-20120123,0,2298924.story

Though I almost would rather he just stayed home and gave those knees as much rest as possible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 23, 2012, 11:59:43 am
I get the FLA QB's suck but I thought Grossman was pretty mobile before that knee injury.
I'm more disappointed in the Haynes pick than the Grossman pick.

Who was it that traded with us, was that the time we traded with NE and they picked Wilfork?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 12:04:58 pm
I don't know, but Wilfork was something else yesterday vs. the Ravens.

I was flashing back to the days of big Ted Washington in his prime.  Big Vince was just doing whatever he wanted to that Ravens OL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 23, 2012, 12:28:17 pm

Wilfork was taken in the 2004 draft by the Pats...7 picks after we picked Tommie Harris.

I think you are thinking of 2003 when we swapped spots with New England.  They took Ty Warren and then we took Michael Haynes right after.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 12:35:49 pm
Wilfork was taken in the 2004 draft by the Pats...7 picks after we picked Tommie Harris.

And Wilfork is playing the best ball of his career and going to another SuperBowl while Tommie is as good as out of the league.

Figures.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 04:17:19 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/23/bears-offer-emery-g-m-job/

Ugh. Looks like Ruskell may be staying even if he doesn't get the GM gig himself.

Leave it to the McCaskeys to hire the least qualified guy of the lot just cause they're familiar with him.  I mean, look at the talent on the Chiefs compared to the talent on the Chargers, Giants and Patriots.  It's not even close.

I see "yes man" written all over Emery but then did any of us really expect anything different?

I also suspect the other candidates may have turned the Bears down after the interview, as opposed to vice versa.  Anyone from the Pats or Giants who has seen how SuperBowl caliber front offices and coaches operate won't want anything to do with Teddy and Lovie.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 23, 2012, 05:43:53 pm
It is possible the team will want to have a second interview with Emery and/or with other candidates. However, a source said Giants college scouting director Marc Ross will not be brought back for a second interview.

The team interviewed five candidates last week. In addition to Emery, team president Ted Phillips spoke with Patriots director of pro personnel Jason Licht, Chargers personnel director Jimmy Raye, Giants college scouting director Marc Ross and Bears personnel director Tim Ruskell.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-no-decision-yet-on-gm-job-20120123,0,4557342.story

This doesnt look good when the best candidate wont be brought back for a 2nd interview

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 05:55:03 pm
The stooges in Halas Hall don't want Ross.  He's too young, too bright, too brash and too much his own man.  He probably told them 10 ways the Bears were failing and how he could fix things...  and that's not what George, Teddy and Lovie wanted to hear. 

They want a good ol' boy like Emery...  look at him, he's old enough to be the other candidates' father.  Someone who's not gonna shake things up too much, will be a good "hang" at the country club and won't cost them too much money in either his own salary or by making them eat a bunch of contracts through early terminations (Ruskell). 

The other possibility, of course, is that Ross turned them down but by reporting he "won't be brought back" it spins it as the Bears' decision and not Ross'.

BTW just now Sean Jensen is reporting that Licht (from the Patriots) will get a 2nd interview as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 23, 2012, 06:33:43 pm
ABC7 is saying that they are bringing Licht back for a 2nd interview but that Emery is still the favorite
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 23, 2012, 06:35:28 pm
He probably told them 10 ways the Bears were failing and how he could fix things...  and that's not what George, Teddy and Lovie wanted to hear. 

A report I heard was that Ross was Lovie's favorite for the job
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 23, 2012, 06:42:50 pm
It sure didn't take this gang long to pi$$ away all the good will from the fans after Angelo was finally fired.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 23, 2012, 08:02:32 pm
Trib reporting the GM search down to 2, Emery and Licht.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 23, 2012, 08:04:21 pm
Biggs is saying Tiice is out of the running for the Raider job without even an interview.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on January 23, 2012, 08:56:31 pm
I wore myself out on the old board trying to make a case for Wilfork for the Bears.  When he was at Miami he was a man among boys.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 23, 2012, 09:02:29 pm

 In their search for a new general manager, the Bears will bring Chiefs director of college scouting Phil Emery and Patriots director of pro personnel Jason Licht back to Halas Hall this week for second interviews.

Emery first entered the NFL as an area scout with the Bears from 1998-2004. He later served as director of college scouting with the Falcons from 2004-08 before working as a regional scout for Atlanta leading up to the 2009 draft. Emery has spent the past three seasons as Kansas City’s director of college scouting.

Emery served as director of strength and conditioning services as well as an associate professor at the U.S. Naval Academy from 1991-98. He was responsible for the development, administration and supervision of all strength and conditioning activities for 4,000 Midshipmen.

Licht is in his 16th NFL season. He re-joined the Patriots personnel department in 2009 after previously spending four seasons (1999-2002) with New England. In 2008, Licht served as a personnel executive for the NFC champion Cardinals after spending five seasons with the Eagles as vice president of player personnel (2006-07) and assistant director of player personnel (2003-05).

Licht first joined the Patriots personnel department in 1999 as a college scout. In June 2001, he became the team’s national scout, responsible for evaluating top college prospects and NFL players. After the Patriots’ Super Bowl XXXVI championship in February 2002, Licht was promoted to assistant director of player personnel, a position he held through the 2002 season.

Licht first interviewed with the Bears last Monday, while Emery met with the team last Friday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 23, 2012, 09:32:50 pm

 There are names on here that I might not recognize so feel free to highlite in red to fill in the blanks.  :D

 As to if they amounted to anything, either with us or other teams.

 Drafts that Phil Emery was invoved in :

 2011

1 Jonathan Baldwin PITT
2 Rodney Hudson Florida St
3 Justin Houston Georgia
3 Allen Bailey Miami
4 Jalil Brown Colorado
5 Ricky Stanzi Iowa
5 Gabe Miller Oregon St
6 Jerrell Powe Mississippi
7 Shane Bannon Yale

2010

1 Eric Berry Tennessee
2 Dexter McCluster  Ole Miss
2 Javier Arenas Alabama
3 Jon Asamoah  Illinois
3 Tony Moeaki Iowa
5 Kendrick Lewis Ole Miss
5 Cameron Sheffield Troy

2009

1 Peria Jerry Mississippi
2 William Moore Missouri
3 Christopher Owens San Jose State
4 Lawrence Sidbury Jr. Richmond
5 William Middleton Furman
5 Garrett Reynolds North Carolina
6 Spencer Adkins Miami
7 Vance Walker Georgia Tech

2008

1 Matt Ryan  Boston College
1 Sam Baker USC
2 Curtis Lofton Oklahoma
3 Chevis Jackson Louisiana State
3 Harry Douglas Louisville
3 Thomas DeCoud California
5 Robert James Arizona State
5 Kroy Biermann Montana
6 Thomas Brown Georgia
7 Wilrey Fontenot Arizona
7 Keith Zinger Louisiana State

2007

1 Jamaal Anderson  Arkansas
2 Justin Blalock  Texas
2 Chris Houston Arkansas
3 Laurent Robinson  Illinois State
4 Stephen Nicholas South Florida
4 Martrez Milner Georgia
6 Trey Lewis Washburn
6 David Irons Auburn
6 Doug Datish Ohio State
6 Daren Stone Maine
7 Jason Snelling Virginia

2006

2 Jimmy Williams Virginia Tech
3 Jerious Norwood  Mississippi State
5 Quinn Ojinnaka Syracuse
6 Adam Jennings Fresno State
7 D.J. Shockley  Georgia

2005

1 Roddy White Alabama-Birmingham
2 Jonathan Babineaux Iowa
3 Jordan Beck Cal Poly
4 Chauncey Davis Florida State
5 Michael Boley Southern Mississippi
5 Frank Omiyale  Tennessee Tech
6 Deandra Cobb Michigan State
7 Darrell Shropshire South Carolina

2004

1 DeAngelo Hall Virginia Tech
1 Michael Jenkins  Ohio State
3 Matt Schaub  Virginia
4 Demorrio Williams Nebraska
5 Chad Lavalais Louisiana State
6 Etric Pruitt Southern Mississippi
7 Quincy Wilson West Virginia


2004

1 Tommie Harris  Oklahoma
2 Terry Johnson  Washington
3 Bernard Berrian Fresno State
4 Nathan Vasher  Texas
4 Leon Joe Maryland
5 Claude Harriott Pittsburgh
5 Craig Krenzel Ohio State
7 Alfonso Marshall Miami (FL)

2003

1 Michael Haynes  Penn State
1 Rex Grossman  Florida
2 Charles Tillman  Louisiana-Lafayette
3 Lance Briggs  Arizona
4 Todd Johnson Florida
4 Ian Scott  Florida
5 Bobby Wade  Arizona
5 Justin Gage  Missouri
5 Tron Lafavor Florida
6 Joe Odom  Purdue
6 Brock Forsey  Boise State
7 Bryan Anderson Pittsburgh

2002

1 Marc Colombo  Boston College
3 Roosevelt Williams Tuskegee
3 Terrence Metcalf  Mississippi
4 Alex Brown  Florida
5 Bobby Gray Louisiana Tech
5 Bryan Knight Pittsburgh
6 Adrian Peterson  Georgia Southern
6 Jamin Elliott Delaware
6 Bryan Fletcher UCLA

2001

1 David Terrell  Michigan
2 Anthony Thomas Michigan
3 Mike Gandy Notre Dame
4 Karon Riley Minnesota
5 Bernard Robertson Tulane
7 John Capel Florida

2000

1 Brian Urlacher  New Mexico
2 Mike Brown  Nebraska
3 Dez White  Georgia Tech
3 Dustin Lyman  Wake Forest
4 Reggie Austin Wake Forest
6 Frank Murphy Kansas State
6 Paul Edinger  Michigan State
7 James Cotton Ohio State
7 Michael Green Northwest Louisiana

1999

1 Cade McNown UCLA
2 Russell Davis North Carolina
3 Rex Tucker  Texas A&M
3 D'Wayne Bates  Northwestern
3 Marty Booker  N.E. Louisiana
4 Warrick Holdman Texas A&M
4 Rosevelt Colvin  Purdue
5 Jerry Wisne Notre Dame
5 Khari Samuel Massachusetts
5 Jerry Azumah  New Hampshire
6 Rashard Cook USC
7 Sulecio Sanford Middle Tennessee State
7 James Finn Pennsylvania

1998

1 Curtis Enis Penn State
2 Tony Parrish  Washington
3 Olin Kreutz  Washington
4 Alonzo Mayes  Oklahoma State
6 Chris Draft Stanford
6 Patrick Mannelly  Duke
7 Chad Overhauser UCLA
7 Moses Moreno Colorado State

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 23, 2012, 11:14:29 pm
I dunno... there's some decent players on Emerys resume but there's a lot of busters too. Those last two drafts with the Falcons are almost  a total washout and its pretty early to say on his KC drafts. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 24, 2012, 06:45:44 am
Newly appointed Chicago Bears offensive coordinator Mike Tice is no longer in the mix for the Oakland Raiders’ head-coaching position according to Brad Biggs of the Chicago Tribune. Tice was supposed to interview with the Raiders on Tuesday at the Senior Bowl.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 08:27:25 am
That's good news for Chicago.  Tice needs to be working on overhauling the offense for 2012 and helping scout OL and WRs, not interviewing for HC gigs.

Re Ralph Emery's draft resume (thanks JJ)... 

A couple of things to consider about Emery. #1, you look at him and wonder, if he was really GM material why didn't some team hire him at that position years ago already?  #2, his resume is unique to say the least.  He was in charge of strength and fitness for the U.S Naval Academy.  OK, so we know he can handle responsibility and probably is a good administrator.  We can also assume character is a big thing with him which is fine... but I wonder if that's going to be such a big deal with him that he winds up passing on some straight-up ballers because of character concerns?  If a Michael Floyd (alcohol) or a Dre Kirkpatrick (pot) falls to us in April is he gonna say "no thanks" and take a lesser player who is "clean"?  We are so far behind the curve on talent that the only way we're gonna get back up to par is to take a chance on a kid or two with outstanding talent who may not necessarily be squeaky clean.  I don't see Emery being the kind of guy that goes far outside the box or takes too many chances...  which may be exactly what the McCaskeys like about him but is not what the team needs at this time, IMO.

One thing that always puzzled me about Angelo was, he'd ding a draft prospect out of hand because of off-field concerns but he would never exercise the same caution when it came to guys' medical histories. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 08:48:59 am
Re that 2010 draft of the Chiefs.

1 Eric Berry Tennessee - By all appearances will be one of the best safeties in the league IF he can stay healthy
 
2 Dexter McCluster Ole Miss - Basically the Chiefs' Devin Hester.  Not sure he's a guy I would have taken in the 2nd but then I said the same thing about Hester 

2 Javier Arenas Alabama - Stud player from a top-notch college program; not sure his college success has translated fully to the NFL but he's still young

3 Jon Asamoah Illinois  - I liked this guy and wanted him for the Bears 

3 Tony Moeaki Iowa - Really came on this year; took a lot of people by surprise but that's what you want out of your 3rd rounders

So that's the top 5 draft picks from two years ago and they are all already solid contributors except for maybe Asamoah. I don't know that we've ever had that ratio of success with ANY Angelo draft.

The quality of that Chiefs team right now is kind of hard to peg. They were definitely exposed as pretenders in their opening playoff game last season but I also don't think they're as bad as they looked at times this season, either. Todd Haley is not a qualified HC so what I suspect (and hope) is that what we've seen when we watch the Chiefs isn't so much a collection of subpar talent as it is decent players who have not been put in positions to succeed. The Chiefs also gam-bled on Matt Cassell being a quality NFL QB and that simply hasn't happened. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 24, 2012, 08:57:52 am
...which translated means its not a talent problem as much as its a management/coaching problem
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 08:59:02 am
I wonder if we could get this guy in here for the right price:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/24/steve-hutchinson-wants-to-keep-playing-vikings-may-not-keep-him/

Hutch at 70% would still be the best O-Lineman on the Bears roster and he's a solid-gold lockerroom guy besides.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 09:00:00 am
...which translated means its not a talent problem as much as its a management/coaching problem

Correct, but the Bears have management/coaching issues of their own so there's only so much positive you can take away from that in our instance.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 24, 2012, 09:00:41 am
Is Hutch 40 yet? He has to be older than dirt
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 24, 2012, 09:04:46 am
...which translated means its not a talent problem as much as its a management/coaching problem

Correct, but the Bears have management/coaching issues of their own so there's only so much positive you can take away from that in our instance.

But a new GM can change the coaching problems.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 09:12:01 am
Steve Hutchinson turned 34 last November.

Letting him go in FA was an epic fail by then-Seahawks GM Tim Ruskell. The Seahawks OL (and really, the entire team) was never the same after he left.

I don't see the Bears pulling the trigger though because bringing in Hutch would send Chris Williams back to the bench and the Bears coaches seem to be extremely intent on keeping Williams in the starting lineup. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 24, 2012, 09:16:11 am

I wore myself out on the old board trying to make a case for Wilfork for the Bears.  When he was at Miami he was a man among boys.

Wilfork was not a fit for Lovie's Bears 4-3 defense - Tommie Harris was and excelled at the position.   Harris got injured - Wilfork didn't. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 09:19:21 am
I still can't figure out why we went away from the big DT scheme (Ted Washington and Traylor) to the undersized 3-Technique.  Major mistake IMO. 

Wilfork reminds me a lot of TW in his prime.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 24, 2012, 09:27:12 am

There are times I curse our undersized tackles but in the grand scheme our defense plays the run pretty darn well and its the pass rush that has been our big issue.  I would like to see the Bears sign/draft another run stopping DT to take Adams' spot.

The real problem I have with our defense is that we HAVE to play cover 2 so much because we don't have the speed in the backfield to play much man.  If you watched the NFC championship game you saw DBs flying around making plays for the ball.

Not against the cover 2 - it has its place but it should only be used a certain percentage of the time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 24, 2012, 09:30:56 am

If I had to choose I'd choose, I'd pick the guy from NE among the GM candidates.  He's been around the league with the Eagles, Cards, and Pats plus he's got experience in pro player personnel and college scouting.  The only thing that turned me off was that he wasn't allowed in the Pats war room.  The Pats do seem to find discarded vets and their drafts are usually solid.

The KC guy's background is college scouting and conditioning....but he does have prior experience with the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 24, 2012, 09:33:51 am
I still can't figure out why we went away from the big DT scheme (Ted Washington and Traylor) to the undersized 3-Technique.  Major mistake IMO.


It was Jauron that liked the big tackles and the big ends too.

Lovie's first year was 2004 and he brought his defense with him.  Which is why the Bears drafted Tommie Harris and Tank Johnson 1-2 in 2004.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 24, 2012, 09:53:43 am
Emery had part in drafting Frank OMG?  That is a big strike.  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 10:46:50 am
Emery had part in drafting Frank OMG?  That is a big strike.  LOL

True, however OMG was only a 5th round pick.  Can't fault Emery for taking a flyer on a small-school guy that apparently flashed some potential.

The major fail is on Angelo for signing OMG for huge FA starter's money after he had proven he was backup NFL material at best. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 10:52:42 am
You have to look at the 1999 Bears draft and think, if we hadn't totally whiffed in the first two rounds that would have been a really solid draft.

Cade McNown was a total W-T-F pick justified by nothing other than sheer panic, and we all know how that turned out.  Russell Davis just kind of disappeared.

BUT... Rex Tucker was better than any other OG we've had in here since. Booker gave us some good play at WR...  Colvin and Holdman were two very good LBs during their time here...  Azumah did really well until we gave him huge coin and he got hurt.  Dwayne Bates probably underachieved but had the potential to be a decent WR and probably also suffered from poor WR coaching during his time here.  Khari Samual and Rashard Cook, IIRC, were solid ST players for awhile.

If we had just found 6- to 8-year playmakers in Rounds 1 and 2 that year, who knows how things would have turned out? 



Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 24, 2012, 02:12:36 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-new-bears-gm-can-reshape-scouting-staff-20120124,0,2088583.story

Well we can only hope that the new GM  a) will in fact be given power to reshape the scouting staff and  b) chooses to use it.

Our scouts have not been getting the job done and we saw the "fruits" of their labor after Carimi, Williams, Cutler and Forte went down this year.  New boots on the ground and eyeballs in the film room are needed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 25, 2012, 10:06:44 am
Article in the Tribune today about Ross not getting a 2nd interview for the Bears GM position.  No details offered (of course) about the reasons, but I think this comment from one of the readers hit it on the head:

I believe Ross would have shaken things up at Halas Hall, brought a fresh perspective and held people accountable.  However, that doesn't fit with what the Bears are all about.

It could also be the fact that Ross is black and the McCaskeys and Sweaty Teddy were nervous about a black man being that high up the food chain in Halas Hall.  Especially a young, ambitious black man with a rep for being assertive.  He didn't pass the "country club" test. Ross is about as opposite of Angelo as you can get and I'm quite sure that's not what the top dogs at Halas Hall are looking for.

In any event...  I am really not happy at all that Senior Bowl week is happening as we speak and we don't even have a GM on board yet getting involved in the process.  God knows what our scouts are doing down there (I assume they're down there anyway) with no supervision or accountablity beyond Timmy Ruskell.  There are quite a few kids down there who could potentially fill positions of need for us, but the Senior Bowl always exposes at least a handful of guys who are more hype than substance. We need our scouts to be on the ball down there so we don't make some big mistakes come the end of April.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 25, 2012, 12:02:11 pm
Has anyone else noticed how much the Trib Website is sucking ass these days?

Not so much in content, but how it performs.  I'm on an ultra high speed connection and the pages still take forever to load and half the time they don't load at all.  I'm sure the ridiculous amount of advertising on every page has a lot to do with that.

I'm going to the Sun-Times site more and more cause the Trib site is being such a PITA.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 25, 2012, 12:47:06 pm
After reading the above, I went to the suntimes and saw the Telander column, stating that Cutler lacked that "extra something" that sucessful nfl quarterbacks have.  He sure does. Its called and offensive line. Oh, and Rick? Die your hair. Twit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 25, 2012, 01:06:26 pm
I used to go to the sun-times every day but I would sometimes go a week or more with nothing new so I pretty much quit.
The tribune site routinely gives me trouble, the scripts on their pages hang up all the time. I figured it was a quirk with Chrome.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 25, 2012, 01:13:57 pm
For me anyway, the Trib site works better with Chrome than on Explorer.  It's just a disaster on Explorer.

Unfortunately I detest Chrome so I'm kind of stuck.

And I agree, the Trib coverage of the Bears is much better than the Sun-Times and especially during the offseason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 25, 2012, 03:33:25 pm
Lost among all the GM stuff is the fact that the Bears have gotten virtually nowhere in their search for our co-OC / QB Coach, and have made even less progress than that in hiring Tice's replacement at OL coach. 

Is it just me or does there seem to be an incredible lack of urgency in Halas Hall right now?  This team has a ton of work to do this offseason but you wouldn't know it by looking at anyone in the organization.  I mean I understand it's important to get the right guys and that sometimes that can take some time, but to not even be setting up interviews yet? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 25, 2012, 06:04:45 pm
But more decisions need to be made. Do the Bears want to retain Marion Barber, who has a track record for not staying healthy and has a base salary of $1.9 million for 2012 and a $100,000 workout bonus?

Yes.

What will the club do with Kahlil Bell, the only restricted free agent on the roster? 

Sign him.

This GM stuff ain't so hard.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 25, 2012, 06:37:14 pm
Reportedly Emery is telling people he has the job, but we shall just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 25, 2012, 08:37:53 pm
It's too bad the Chiefs have almost exactly the opposite personnel needs the Bears do, cause Emery probably won't be able to leverage much of the  scouting he's been doing for the Chiefs up till now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 25, 2012, 09:54:39 pm

 Keep me informed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 26, 2012, 08:47:08 am
Good Trib article today giving some insights into where Tice's head is at with the offense.

These pieces I like:

"The biggest strength we have is a quarterback who can make all the throws," Tice said. "We text, we talk on the phone, almost daily. Extensive texting. He's asking a lot of questions and I'm giving him straight up answers."

and

"I am tailoring what I am doing to what I've done, which is common sense," Tice said. "Why run it when they have one more guy than you can block? Why not throw it when you have free access and you have a guy who can beat single coverage? … To do that you have to have the ability to check at the line of scrimmage, you have to have the ability to have a short passing game. And then I'm a no-huddle guy and we don't have no huddle. … I want to be able to go no huddle and change the rhythm offensively."

This, OTOH, not the most encouraging:

"Here is what I saw with [Webb]: Second-year player playing one side one year and one side another," Tice said. "I thought he was adequate. His consistency grade was actually solid. What grade was bad was the critical errors, the sacks, penalties... Well, if you're not always in the deep drops, if you're making sure the guy gets chip help from a back or a tight end and if you change the release point of the quarterback, you're going to make him better already without making him better. And then you have an entire offseason (with) a chance to make him better there. He is a very good run blocker. Do I think he is a guy moving forward? Yes, I do unless some miracle happens and an elite first-round draft pick that we couldn't pass up fell in our lap, which I doubt. Yeah, he's our guy moving forward."

Translation = no LT upgrade via draft or FA, they are sticking with J'Marcus Webb and will try to mask his lack of pass blocking ability in other ways.  It could very well be he's already been told that the 1st round pick is gonna be a defensive player, so he's smart enough to not even build expectations. 

In other words, Cutler is going to be rolling out to the right -- a lot -- this upcoming season.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 26, 2012, 09:17:31 am
Tice doesnt want to key draft oponents as to the Bears need for a LOT. I dont want to put much stock that we arent even going to try to get a LOT upgrade in the 1st round. I dont think you can advertise with a sign with big red letters saying the Bears are desperate for a LOT. Thats not smart football. The Bears also have a lot of other needs too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 26, 2012, 09:32:58 am
Could be, but it's not like other teams don't know our play at LT last year was...  inconsistent, to put it kindly.  They've seen the game film.

Our coaches can spin it all they want but most NFL watchers know we need 1 or 2 better bodies on the OL even if Carimi and Chris Williams come back full strength.

Interesting how Tice says almost nothing about our WRs in that article.  It's Cutler, a little about Forte and a little about the OL and that's it. Possibly a deal of not saying anything if you can't say something nice?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 26, 2012, 09:49:16 am
I think thats it. If ya havent got anything nice to say about someone dont say anything at all
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 26, 2012, 10:00:59 am
I think what Tice was really saying is "it is very unlikely we will get an upgrade at LT this year in the draft or FA so we'll have to help Webb out. With an off season of working with him at LT he'll get better and we'll stop the 7 step drops and help Webb out so he doesn't look so bad. If he can cut down on penalties we'll be in better shape and maybe Cutler can stay healthy."

He did mention something about needing a WR

"If you're going to take advantage of the box count and you're going to get the ball to that guy with single coverage, you need a guy who is going to get open more than 90 percent of the time. We don't have a guy who has stepped up, in my opinion, and shown us that ability. We either have to develop one who is in the building or we have to bring one in via the draft or free agency"

He says exactly what I have been thinking.....
Watching guys like Brady and Rogers in the playoffs shows that they usually get the ball out fast, in like 2 seconds on most plays.
If we had a WR that can get open and make that catch it makes our OL look better.
As we beat down opposing D's on the short throws we can work some longer throws in there on occasion.

I love the no-huddle and audibles being mentioned. Jay is the type of player that can make a D pay by reading them before the snap. The past 2 years he hasn't had time to read a D before the snap because the play doesn't come in with enough time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 26, 2012, 10:21:50 am
We need to be doing play action, and a lot of it.

When you can run the ball as effectively as we can (most of the time, anyway), it's insane not to take advantage of that to open things up for your passing game. 

If you can run the ball and you have a QB who can sell the hell out of play action, that's like adding one or two guys to your pass protection right there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 26, 2012, 10:24:02 am
I think what Tice was really saying is "it is very unlikely we will get an upgrade at LT this year in the draft or FA so we'll have to help Webb out. With an off season of working with him at LT he'll get better and we'll stop the 7 step drops and help Webb out so he doesn't look so bad. If he can cut down on penalties we'll be in better shape and maybe Cutler can stay healthy."

Thats exactly what Tice is saying. I re-read it from the Trib and was just about to disect the quote
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 26, 2012, 10:29:03 am
I can visualize teams needing a LOT trading up above the Bears to ensure they get a LOT this year. That Almost guarantees the Bears wont be in position to draft a LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 26, 2012, 10:42:38 am
I've got a bad feeling Tice is going to wind up having to dramatically improve this offense with pretty much the pieces we've got in place.  He might say we need more talent at key positions but is the new GM going to listen?  And even if he does, how is the draft going to fall?

It wouldn't surprise me to see all the stud LTs and WRs go off the board before we draft and we'll wind up taking a DE or CB as the BPA. Which would leave it to FA to bolster our OL and WR needs and if we dilly-dally there or try and go cheap, we'll get nothing.

I have no doubt that Tice will be a dramatic improvement over Martz as an OC, but that's only a start.  Coaching is only one part of the equation when it comes to our offense...  we need some better players too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 26, 2012, 11:51:15 am
The elimination of the 7 step drop alone will improve the line play and protect Cutler better which is what I think Tice is looking at. In St Louis with Martz using the 7 step drop crap they had a much better O-line incuding Pace in his prime and I believe Warner still led the league in getting sacked. Our line could definately improve but the Martz 7 step drop made them look worse than they are.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 26, 2012, 11:54:26 am
Unless Cutler's intelligence and game savvy turn out to be far less than advertised, you also have to really like the idea of Cutler being empowered to change plays at the line.

Getting his brain into the equation as well as his arm and feet could potentially pay huge dividends in our offense's 3rd down productivity and scoring capacity.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 26, 2012, 01:09:37 pm
I think Cutler knows the game, I think that is a big reason for some of the looks he gave.
...you give me these guys to work with and you won't let me check out of a play that is going to get me killed?..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 26, 2012, 01:32:29 pm
Yup.  Now get him some OL that can hold their blocks for more than a second, and some WRs that can get open and catch the ball, and he'll be on his way.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 26, 2012, 02:06:38 pm

Imagine if Tice says that LT is the sore spot of the offense and we need immediate help there.  Imagine what that does to the confidence of Webb...and especially if we don't get that elite LT in the draft or free agency.

This way if we get that elite guy then there's an open competition for the job and Webb becomes once of the best swing tackles in the league.

I haven't read the Tice article yet but from the excerpts I've read I like it....a lot.

I want more short passes, more long passes, more TE involvement, more audibles, and more QB in motion.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 26, 2012, 02:11:10 pm
In my mind the clear #1 deficiency of our offensive personnel is at WR.  We need a true #1 WR and we may also need to replace Knox if he can't come back and Tice deems it necessary have a true speed merchant outside of Hester.

But...  anyone who saw Webb just collapse in that season ending Vikings game can't argue that upgrading the quality of play at LT doesn't run a close 2nd.  Maybe Webb can still improve into an at least serviceable player there...  maybe he can't.  But IMO we're foolish not to at least hedge our bets.

And the huge X factor that literally nobody is talking about is, who is going to be coaching our OL this year?  Are they expecting Tice to keep covering that as well as the OC duties or what?  I can't see how our OL can do anything but regress if that's going to be the case cause Tice simply won't have the time to give them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 26, 2012, 02:24:41 pm
The facts are if we stay in our draft spot, we 'should' get either 1.Top flight WR  2. Solid CB  3. Solid DE or DT    Don't think we should be fretting about not getting this or that. We're not drafting near the bottom this time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 26, 2012, 02:28:47 pm
I like Webb but I'm not going to go out and say he's our best option going forward at LT.   Webb had 3 horrible games that I can recall.  Atlanta's Abraham, Seattle's Chris Clemons and Jared Allen.  I believe he held his own in most of the other 13 games.

Also recall he transitioned from RT to LT without much benefit of coaching in the offseason. 

I'd submit that there were more times this season, many more times, this season, that Cutler was sitting back there waiting in the pocket for open receivers than there time when he was running for his life.

Bears have to look at another option at LT, but it might not be a first round type guy.  We may just draft/sign a swing tackle to replace Omiyale and have to go with Webb as the starter.  Another option could be Carimi but that decision needs to be made AFTER he gets some NFL experience under his belt.

So we all may have to hope that another year of experience and a new offense might make a difference in Webb's play in 2012.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 26, 2012, 02:30:20 pm
the top LT, WR, DE and CB usually go in the top 10. At 19 we likely will have the choice of only the #2 or #3 WR, LT,DE or CB which in a good year can still be better than what we have.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 26, 2012, 02:30:51 pm
I really hope we don't wind up with that CB out of Nebraska (Dennard).

He measured barely 5'10 for the Senior Bowl and hasn't looked good down there this week at all.  Especially in man coverage which is very likely what our new defensive scheme will call for after Lovie and Marinelli are launched and take the Tampa 2 with them.  And, he got abused in his bowl game as well.  Looks like he's probably nickel back NFL material at best.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 26, 2012, 07:40:52 pm
I see the Bears had a 2nd interview with Licht today and will have a 2nd with Emery tomorrow. :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 26, 2012, 09:26:31 pm
Meh.  Going thru the motions.  Be very,very surprised if the NE guy gets it.   Course, am already surprised butt buddy didn't get it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 26, 2012, 09:55:11 pm
Yes, very surprised to say the least. It certainly fit the Bears modus operandi.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 26, 2012, 11:29:12 pm

 Ross as GM

 Round 1 ... WR

 Round 2 ... OL

 Just that simplicity right there could turn this team into contenders.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on January 27, 2012, 05:11:24 am
What about Chris Williams having a shot at Left tackle again?  That would allow Spencer, Louis and Garza to fill out the interior.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 27, 2012, 06:57:28 am
Griz, that might not be a bad idea.
If I remember right he did pretty well his rookie year when he played, doing a good job against Jared Allen after coming back from injury. I'm unsure why he fell off and wasn't given another chance.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 27, 2012, 09:13:11 am
From the Trib, kinda burried. I thought it was kinda interesting. Sorta a flashback in Rod Graves.

"High praise: Cardinals general manager Rod Graves had Jason Licht on his staff for the 2008 season.

Licht, who had a second interview for the Bears' general manager position Thursday, was a personnel executive for Graves when the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl.

"Jason did an outstanding job for us,'' Graves said during a break at the Senior Bowl practices.

Graves, who used to work for the Bears, declined to discuss Licht's role in detail with the interview process ongoing.

Licht moved from the Cardinals to his current position as the Patriots' pro personnel director."
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 27, 2012, 09:20:30 am
Read the Trib article about the hunt for a qb coach.  In it is a telling comment about how Martz used the position for someone that was "proficient with computers". Dear God in heaven what  a nut house. So damning that they let that ass clown hang for two years. Usually someone that has to have "someone proficient with computers" can't even insert a column in excel, much less mine data basis.  God what a chump.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 27, 2012, 09:51:58 am
In Kansas City, Pioli said Emery runs all of the Chiefs’ draft meetings, and he’s a key voice on draft days in their draft room.

Asked if Emery is ready to be a GM, Pioli said, “You only find out if you’re ready when you get into it.
 
“But, yes, I do believe he’s ready. He’s a strong decision-maker.”
 
Given the team approach the Chiefs employ, Pioli declined to name a specific player Emery pushed who has developed into a good player over the last three seasons.


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/10214158-606/phil-emery-gets-ringing-endorsement-for-bears-gm-position.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 27, 2012, 10:18:03 am
What about Chris Williams having a shot at Left tackle again?  That would allow Spencer, Louis and Garza to fill out the interior.

I've been thinking about this too.  Then J'Marcus would be the backup swing T, which is probably where he belongs unless and until he can develop further.

It would be nice to get both Spencer and Louis on the field and that would be the most logical way to do it although one of them would be moving from the R to the L side in that scenario.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 27, 2012, 10:25:51 am
What about Chris Williams having a shot at Left tackle again?  That would allow Spencer, Louis and Garza to fill out the interior.

I never knew why scouts were so interested in collegiate tackles arm length until I saw Chris Williams reaching for DEs in the beginning of the 2010 season.   

I'm open minded enough to explore all possibilities, especially at LT but what's that old country saying about a dog and hunting?   Shoot maybe we look at Lance Louis at LT if we're going to give Chris Williams a shot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 27, 2012, 10:51:21 am
I have a feeling that what Tice said in his interview a few days ago is exactly how it's going to go down.

I.e., Webb will stay at LT and they will work his ass off in training camp hoping to accelerate his development, and in the meantime help him out with schemes and extra blockers. The return of a healthy Chris Williams at LG could help Webb's cause since some of his most visible failures were due to a clear lack of communication / coordination with Edwin Williams after Chris went down.

Mike Adams from Ohio State is the only legitimate LT prospect I see falling to us, and while he certainly looks the part, one the biggest knocks on him has been inconsistency... same as J'Marcus.  So if you're just swapping out one huge, inconsistent body with another, then I think experience wins out and that means Webb stays put.  Which means I suspect Adams won't be our pick even if he's there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 27, 2012, 01:45:06 pm
Shoot maybe we look at Lance Louis at LT if we're going to give Chris Williams a shot.

Or Garza, or Edwin Williams or even the man in the Moon. Sheesh. That was a disaster once because of the short arms, lets not re-visit disaster. I am not desperate enough to see Cuttler on the ground a lot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 27, 2012, 03:49:15 pm
Another week... 

Still no GM

Still no QB coach

Still no OL coach

Ho-hum, whatever.

Hopefully our scouting staff at least got some good work done down in Mobile.  If they didn't find us any studs, I hope they at least ruled out the duds.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 27, 2012, 06:40:57 pm
I watched CTL on CSN and they brought up the point that all the coaching search delay crap has to do with Lovie essentially being a lame duck coach. They would rather work for a new HC because he would have 3 years guaranteed rather than one yr with lame duck Lovie.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 27, 2012, 06:59:10 pm
 
I have a feeling that what Tice said in his interview a few days ago is exactly how it's going to go down.

I.e., Webb will stay at LT and they will work his ass off in training camp hoping to accelerate his development, and in the meantime help him out with schemes and extra blockers. The return of a healthy Chris Williams at LG could help Webb's cause since some of his most visible failures were due to a clear lack of communication / coordination with Edwin Williams after Chris went down.

Mike Adams from Ohio State is the only legitimate LT prospect I see falling to us, and while he certainly looks the part, one the biggest knocks on him has been inconsistency... same as J'Marcus.  So if you're just swapping out one huge, inconsistent body with another, then I think experience wins out and that means Webb stays put.  Which means I suspect Adams won't be our pick even if he's there.

 Uhhhhh ... wasnt Carimi a LT?  Lets review under the angelo leadership :

 Chris Williams ... LT. Didnt play his first year ... tried at LT ... moved to LG.

 Fill in the LT position ... rotated, whatever worked while Cutler was getting swamped by NYG's.

 Gabe Carimi ... LT. Injured.

 Webb ... a 7th round pick playing LT.

 Angelo left us with a load of shiiit at LT ... as a goodbye present.

 I hope the next GM knows we need a REAL LT for the next ten years that isnt injured.

 BTW ... long arms would help also.  :D

 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 27, 2012, 07:18:27 pm
Webb's arms are fine. It's his feet that are in question.

And his head. LT isn't a place for idiots or guys that can't focus.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 27, 2012, 08:08:56 pm

 
Webb's arms are fine. It's his feet that are in question.

And his head. LT isn't a place for idiots or guys that can't focus.

 LOL !! Well outside of that he's a hellova nice guy Yap.

 This is going to be interesting when the next GM comes on line.

 Does he come in and see what we all have been talking about for YEARS ?

 Or does he become some yet again a McCasky yes boy for the cheapest doller invested?

 We dont know.

 Gotta give props to angelo tho ... Williams & Hurd for WR's.

 Now THATS improving the WR corps !

 Jesus H motherfuuucking GOD to Christ almighty ... Lets hope the next GM is better bro.  :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 28, 2012, 06:55:34 am
Carimi was a LT in college that was drafted to be a RT. Most scouts feel like he can't play LT in the pros.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 28, 2012, 09:50:51 am
And thats why he was drafted so low in the 1st round to begin with, because nobody thought he had the skills necessary to be a LOT. Had he posessed those skills he would have been swooped up a lot higher than the Bears pick. However that doesnt stop some of the armchair talent evaluators here saying that once a LOT always a LOT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 28, 2012, 10:52:42 am
Carimi was a LT in college that was drafted to be a RT. Most scouts feel like he can't play LT in the pros.

Not true Navigator.  Even Carimi said he was playing LT when he was drafted.  He said in a news conference he was going to protect Cutler's blind side....


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-07-29/site/ct-spt-0730-bits-bears-chicago--20110730_1_gabe-carimi-tight-end-lance-louis
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 28, 2012, 10:56:44 am
I see one of those armchair talent evaluators has surfaced. Surprise! :o :o
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 28, 2012, 11:33:51 am
" he may not be a true left tackle in the NFL which could ultimately hurt his overall stock. In all likelihood, he will be drafted as a right tackle with the potential to move to the left side later in his career.
"
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2416

Carimi will play in the NFL for some team and start at right tackle. He is by no means a left tackle and I will be shocked if he is drafted in the first round next year. Carimi has size and he is a powerful run blocker, but lacks the athleticism, technique and consistency for him to be even discussed as a first-round talent. I think he is a second- or third-round pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, and I currently have a third-round grade on Carimi.
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011gcarimi.php


says he did good at LT but might be better suited as a RT in the pros

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/683046-gabe-carimi-to-chicago-bears-2011-nfl-draft-scouting-report

this is the first report where I read the guy thinks he can play LT
http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-report-gabe-carimi

Likely he can do better than Webb, maybe flipping them is the right choice. I'll let Tice decide that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 28, 2012, 11:44:03 am
What I dont get is why someone would want the Bears to move Carimi to the left side and have him fail there? Isnt the object to put a player at a position where they can succeed? Why would someone want the Bears to fail by moving Carimi to LT?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 28, 2012, 12:34:22 pm
Nav:

You said that the Bears drafted Carimi to be a RT and I was just showing you that wasn't true.

As even Carimi said in that link Angelo drafted him to the LT, to protect J-Cut's blind side, not his front side.  Read the link.

IF Angelo drafted him to play LT but can't play it then that's on Angelo.  Or maybe Tice.  Who knows.
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 28, 2012, 01:22:15 pm
First let's see if Carimi can even get through a few games healthy before we decide which side he's best on. If this knee stuff can't get fixed for good then it may be all he can do just to hold his own on the right.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 28, 2012, 03:28:43 pm
ladies and gents, your new chicago bear gm.  It ain't the ne guy. ah well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 28, 2012, 03:40:48 pm
Oh damn.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 28, 2012, 03:57:52 pm
Emery's biggest challenge in the court of public opinion is that he's been here before. There's also the temptation to look at the Falcons and Chiefs and say they're barely above average teams so what have we really gained. Those two teams do have some good players though, which Emery gets the credit for uncovering. He might not be the guy we wanted but he's who we've got so I hope it works out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 28, 2012, 04:03:30 pm
Well at least he has a great first name.  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 28, 2012, 05:23:32 pm
What....Philton?

Figures they'd go with the familiar instead of the one from a very successful program....who'd a thunk it?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 28, 2012, 05:34:15 pm
That probably means Ruskell stays on too saving the Bears a lot of money ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 28, 2012, 05:51:51 pm
No question Ruskell stays on.  The million dollar question will be if Lovie doesnt make the playoffs, does Emery extend him.  No way I can see that happening, but you never know. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 28, 2012, 05:53:38 pm
Heard on the Score Ruskell is gone.  That's a positive.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 28, 2012, 06:29:17 pm
Well if anyone should know how sorry our roster is,  it would be someone who had a front row seat at the Bears / Chiefs game this year...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 28, 2012, 06:51:39 pm
What....Philton?


LOL!!  Good one!   I meant "Phil" though!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 28, 2012, 06:54:10 pm
Thats a miracle Ruskell is gone. Maybe I was too quick to judge Emery. Maybe they didnt just hire a yes man.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 28, 2012, 06:59:20 pm
That will be interesting to see what changes Emery makes to the scouting staff and who he hires to replace Ruskell
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 28, 2012, 07:01:58 pm
Lets hope his draft is good. I did hear he was at the Senor Bowl.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 28, 2012, 07:18:52 pm
Well!  He's hit the ground running, I'll give him that.  Here's hoping its a positive sign.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 28, 2012, 09:48:44 pm
I know, I'm just razzin ya....you seem to be the type that gets easily razzed....is that true, Phil?  :P
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 29, 2012, 02:23:21 pm
I haven't seen anything in print about Ruskell being fired.

Does anyone have a link?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 29, 2012, 02:32:52 pm
I would be interested to know how much time Emery spent at the Senior Bowl specifically checking out OL, WR, DL and DB.  Reason being that those are the primary needs of the Bears, but the Chiefs are pretty well set at all those positions. I wonder if someone at Halas Hall tipped him off early in the week that he would be getting the gig so that he'd know where to focus his efforts. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 29, 2012, 02:57:48 pm
I highly doubt he fires Ruskell.  Ruskell used to be his boss and hired him giving him his first shot in the NFL I believe. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 29, 2012, 03:06:10 pm
The one thing in Emery's favor is that he has actual experience in the war room, running drafts.

That's something that Licht didn't have and it could very well be what tipped the balance toward Emery, even more so than his prior experience in the Bears organization.  By all appearances at least, the McCaskeys know full well how important it is to upgrade our roster with this coming draft, and they want someone pulling the trigger who won't fold when the heat is on.

I would like to think George was disgusted (as we all were) at how the last 6 games of the season played out and that Emery has been brought in with a mandate to upgrade the roster (particularly depth) as quickly as possible and by any means necessary. The Chiefs and Falcons have underperformed in recent years but I think that has to be laid more on their coaching staffs than their personnel. And in the case of the Chiefs this year, injuries. Both of those teams' rosters are pretty solid so it's hard to argue that Emery hasn't done his part.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 29, 2012, 05:05:11 pm
Phil Emery will have his hands full in Chicago

 Posted by Mike Florio on January 29, 2012, 10:07 AM EST
 
Getty Images
By all accounts, new Bears G.M. Phil Emery has a reputation for working hard, and working smart.  He’ll likely need a lot of both once he reports for duty at Halas Hall.
 
Apart from the inherent awkwardness of being hired to run a football operation with an entrenched head coach who isn’t getting fired any time soon (apparently), Emery faces other challenges in the immediate and not-too-distant future.
 
Running back Matt Forte has made no secret of his desire for a long-term deal.  If the Bears use the franchise tag on Forte, he can stay away from the team until the eve of the regular season and still earn the full franchise salary for 2012, showing up in something other than prime football shape.
 
Does Emery regard Forte as a top-tier running back or an interchangeable part?  The manner in which Emery resolves that question will go a long way toward determining Forte’s future in Chicago.
 
Then there’s the challenge presented by other big-name players who are closer to the end of their careers than the beginning.  Linebacker Lance Briggs hasn’t been happy with his contract (what else is new?), and middle linebacker Brian Urlacher has 12 years of NFL wear and tear.
 
Throw in the fact that plenty of Angelo’s hires remain in the building, and Emery definitely will earn his salary in the short term, and possibly beyond.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 29, 2012, 07:07:23 pm
Emery strikes me as the kind of guy for whom character is extremely important in a player. That's probably admirable but I also hope its not something that makes him pass up a Michael Floyd or a Dre Kirkpatrick if one of those studs should fall to us. We need stars, and sometimes those guys carry baggage. I hope Emery is willing to take an educated risk here and there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 29, 2012, 07:08:22 pm
Emery was the safe pick..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 29, 2012, 07:43:57 pm
He's getting alot of gush from Pompei @ the trib:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0129-pompei-bears-chicago--20120129,0,4956355.column?logout=true
Once again, one can only hope.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 29, 2012, 08:54:55 pm
I haven't seen anything in print about Ruskell being fired.

Does anyone have a link?

Man I have looked and cant find one. I had the Score on and not one word did I hear about Ruskell. Maybe somebody will inquire at the presser tomorrow.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 08:19:19 am
While all the Chicago sportswriters take turns slurping Emery's knob in the press, all the true Bears fans understand that we will know by October if Emery was the right guy.

The Bears need 6 players to get back into the playoff mix:

- A starting caliber LT
- 2 legit WRs to go with Bennett
- A pass rushing monster on the DL
- A #2 CB
- A legit backup QB. 

We have a bunch of FA money to spend, and 4 picks in the first three rounds of the draft.  If Emery knows his s**t at all, we have enough resources to get those 6 players.  It's just a matter of finding them and getting the deals done.

If he does that, he's done his job and -- barring any catastrophic injuries like this year -- I think we're back in the playoffs.  OTOH, if we don't get better players at those 6 spots, he fails and we're lucky to finish .500.  It's as simple as that.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 30, 2012, 08:28:51 am
I'll be happy if we get a #1WR, upgrade any position on the OL and either a situational pass rusher or an upgrade at CB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 08:34:39 am
I'll be happy if we get a #1WR, upgrade any position on the OL and either a situational pass rusher or an upgrade at CB.

Those moves would probably get us back into the conversation as a wildcard contender at least.  But I think we need a little more firepower if we want to not just make the playoffs, but go deep.  Our defense has peaked and can no longer be counted on to carry the team so we're gonna have to make that up with offense and I'm not comfortable just upgrading a player or two and trusting that Tice's scheme (whatever it is) can cover the rest.

The bottom line is, we need more players on our roster that put the fear factor into the opposing team.  Peppers, Forte, and Cutler can do that, but even with those guys consistency is a big issue.  Maybe Briggs. Hester (as a returner, not as a WR). Everyone else, not so much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 08:37:25 am
I was listening to Hub at SoxFest on the Score and he said that there are no studs at LOT in the FA crop this year, just journeymen. So if we need a LT we will have to draft one which I highly doubt happens at #19.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 08:39:53 am
I doubt we get that #1 WR in the draft either at #19. My guess is if you want a #1 you will have to sign one in FA such as Jackson or Colston
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 08:40:06 am
I hope with our new GM finally on board that we can fast-track the QB Coach and OL Coach searches into high gear.

Time's wasting on those hires and I would expect Mike Tice to start getting very insistent soon on filling those positions as they will directly impact the success (or lack thereof) he has as an OC this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 30, 2012, 08:43:34 am
I'm hoping we can get a #1 WR in FA.


That would allow us to hopefully get an LT in round 1.
If there isn't an LT then go BPA but look at a pass rusher and CB.

I'm also thinking that an off-season of Webb at LT with Tice is going to help him a good bit.
Having those guys playing together a lot will help also.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 08:44:59 am
I doubt we get that #1 WR in the draft either at #19. My guess is if you want a #1 you will have to sign one in FA such as Jackson or Colston

Michael Floyd would be worth it at 19, and would be our best WR by far from Day 1.  He's as close to a Terrell Owens as you're going to get in this draft class. But he does have baggage, and I could easily see him coming off Emery's list because of that. 

The question then becomes, if there's no OT or WR worth the pick at 19, where do you go?  If Emery drafts a defensive player in the 1st round, the fan base will go apesh*t and it will bring up a very legitimate question of whether he's really in charge of the personnel or just Lovie's puppet.  Interior OL would be an option at 19 but a lot of people don't consider that a real position of need with Chris Williams, Garza, Spencer and Lance Louis all having had experience and reasonable success there. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 08:45:05 am
The thing I hope to hear at the presser today is that Ruskell is history, but I expect the word to be he stays at least one more year
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 08:48:20 am
The thing I hope to hear at the presser today is that Ruskell is history, but I expect the word to be he stays at least one more year

Yes, they'll play the "continuity" card.  Not knowing or caring of course that when what you're "continuing" is mediocrity, that's the last thing you want to value. It will be a financial decision, as so many decisions are at Halas Hall.

The other thing that's cracking me up is all these articles I'm reading about how Emery is likely to retain most or all of the Bears scouting staff because they are "well respected" around the league.  Really?  Really?  Our roster is a disaster. If our scouts are so good then why do we have so few playmakers and zero depth at most positions?  Why do high-round (3rd and higher) draft picks from the Bears do nothing for 3 years, get cut and then promptly fall out of the league? Something doesn't add up.  Either our scouts really aren't that good, or Angelo was ignoring them on a regular basis.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 08:49:09 am
I doubt we get that #1 WR in the draft either at #19. My guess is if you want a #1 you will have to sign one in FA such as Jackson or Colston

Michael Floyd would be worth it at 19, and would be our best WR by far from Day 1.  He's as close to a Terrell Owens as you're going to get in this draft class. But he does have baggage, and I could easily see him coming off Emery's list because of that. 

The question then becomes, if there's no OT or WR worth the pick at 19, where do you go?  If Emery drafts a defensive player in the 1st round, the fan base will go apesh*t and it will bring up a very legitimate question of whether he's really in charge of the personnel or just Lovie's puppet.  Interior OL would be an option at 19 but a lot of people don't consider that a real position of need with Chris Williams, Garza, Spencer and Lance Louis all having had experience and reasonable success there. 

Maybe that kid from Alabama who got arrested for MJ will fall to us at #19
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 08:52:19 am
Maybe that kid from Alabama who got arrested for MJ will fall to us at #19

We can only hope. He's 6'3, 195, with top notch experience in the top conference in the country.  Not only are his measureables outstanding but his skill set is perfectly suited for the scheme we run.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=40798

There are very few defensive players I would be on board with using our 1st on, but he is one of them.  To get the 2nd ranked CB at #19 is a no-brainer even if CB isn't one of our top 2 or 3 needs. Again though, with Emery, the character thing may pop up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 08:53:16 am
My guess is that it would have to be somebody who falls into our lap at #19. I expect some trading in this draft too. I expect Jerry Jones and Snyder to be very active trading
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 09:01:41 am
Maybe that kid from Alabama who got arrested for MJ will fall to us at #19

We can only hope. He's 6'3, 195, with top notch experience in the top conference in the country.  Not only are his measureables outstanding but his skill set is perfectly suited for the scheme we run.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=40798

There are very few defensive players I would be on board with using our 1st on, but he is one of them.  To get the 2nd ranked CB at #19 is a no-brainer even if CB isn't one of our top 2 or 3 needs. Again though, with Emery, the character thing may pop up.

Another thing Hub said was there might be a passrushing stud available at #19 to pair with Peppers and move Izzy inside
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 09:19:18 am
All I can say is if we gam-ble our 1st rounder on a pass rush DE he had damn well better be world-class, right out of the gate.  Drafting spot players with 1st round picks is usually not a great tactic unless they are just exceptional at whatever you drafted them to do. 

Emery spending the first draft pick of his tenure on a DL would provoke no small amount of eye-rolling among the Bears faithful, and with good reason.  The only guy I can think of that might be available at 19 is Ingram from South Carolina and there are a ton of questions about him with barely being 6'1 and having short arms.

Plus with all the short-route, quick drop, get-the-ball-out offenses being deployed these days I'm starting to wonder if edge pass rushers are really as valuable as they used to be.  Maybe it's time to shift focus away from rushing the passer to covering the receivers.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 09:26:05 am
....which I wouldnt be against. Go defensive backfield. One player i was hearing that stood out in practice at the Senior Bowl was the safety from ND, not that I would draft a safety at #19.

Harrison Smith is the kid's name. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0127-bits-bears-chicago--20120127,0,4052660.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 09:34:12 am
Safety would most definitely NOT be a popular pick with most of the Bears fans I know.

I would say that as far as degree of difficulty (first being the hardest position to improve), it goes something like this:

1) LT - We're drafting too low and the FA class isn't great.  We may be stuck with Webb and a prayer here by default.

2) Backup QB - The good ones aren't available very often in FA, and they don't come cheap.  The draft is not an option here.  Again, we may wind up defaulting to McCown and hoping we don't need him. 

3) Rush DE - Again, our draft position hurts our prospects of finding a young stud here.  May have to look at FA though the price will be steep.

4) CB - This draft class is not strong after the 1st two, but FA may help us out here.

5) WR - Thankfully, our position of highest need should hopefully also be the easiest to fill.  This is a very deep draft class for WRs with great size (6'3 or taller) and "enough" speed, which is exactly what our offense needs.  And with guys like Jackson, Colston and Bowe potentially in FA, it would not be impossible or inappropriate to both draft a WR and get one in FA just to hedge our bets. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 09:39:31 am
Well I sure wouldnt draft a backup QB at #19 either eventhough it is a priority need.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 10:27:20 am
Here are some question I expect to be lobbed at Emery at the 2 pm presser today.

- What is your impression of the Bears roster in general?  (He'll say something really fluffy about a "great veteran core, some good younger talent" etc. etc.; I would be shocked if he comes out and directly identifies any players (or even positions) that are not up to par; he will remind everyone that the Bears had enough "talent" to come within a game of the SuperBowl two years ago and will spin that as the Bears are just a couple of pieces away from being playoff caliber yada yada).

- What positions are you focusing on for the draft?  (He won't answer this one, nor should he)

- Are there any players that especially stood out to you at the Senior Bowl last week?  (He won't answer this one either)

- Have you been in contact with Matt Forte's agent and do you consider re-signing him a high priority?  (Very interested to hear his answer on this one)

- What is the status of the ongoing searches for a QB Coach/Passing Coordinator and an OL Coach?  Will the pace of those searches be picking up and how involved will you as the GM be in that process?  (Interested to hear the answer on this one as well)

- What are your thoughts about the current coaching staff and what standards, if any, will they be held to in terms of this team's performance for the 2012 season?   (He either won't answer this or will give some really PC, vague response).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 30, 2012, 11:09:07 am
Wow, great start:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-part-ways-with-ruskell-20120130,0,1746443.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 11:16:48 am
Appears that this presser will be more "meaty" than I expected
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 11:17:30 am
That is a great start.  I completely forgot about the Ruskell thing in my anticipated questions but it looks like that issue has already been addressed.
   
Maybe this Emery guy is actually getting some power after all.  You'll note the article does not say that Emery fired Ruskell, but I would be interested to know if Emery had made that a condition of his taking the job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 11:22:14 am
or that maybe Phillips or George canned him so as Emery didnt have to do it himself
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 30, 2012, 11:24:00 am
Thats the first public acknowledgement I have heard that Ruskell is gone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 30, 2012, 11:44:54 am
it said they parted ways by mutual agreement.
I expect the new structure to the front office would mean a demotion of sorts to Ruskell who decided he didn't want to return.
I would think if it is a mutual separation that you wouldn't have to pick up his salary.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 30, 2012, 01:43:14 pm
Wow, great start:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-part-ways-with-ruskell-20120130,0,1746443.story

Tried to tell ya last Saturday!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 02:08:46 pm
I would think if it is a mutual separation that you wouldn't have to pick up his salary.

The Tribune article says Ruskell will be paid in full. I assume that means the McCaskeys are eating the last two years of his contract.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 02:29:33 pm
Pretty blah presser if the early Trib and Sun-Times accounts are accurate.

Emery "excited" to be here, "excited" about the coaching staff, we've got a lot of work to do but we've got some playmakers, etc.

Sounds like the first thing he is going to tackle is FA (which hopefully means taking care of Forte as well), and then move relatively soon on to the draft. 

Ruskell's position will be split into two directors (one for college scouting and one for pro personnel)...  no indication whether they will be outside hires or promotions from within.  My money says they stay in-house given the compressed timeline.

He also praised the Bears scouting staff...  again, the PC thing but I really don't know how anyone can do that with a straight face seeing how many average to bad players are on our roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 30, 2012, 02:56:51 pm
Emery may not have been the preferred hire for a lot of us, but three things have come out again and again.

#1 he has a system (patterned after the Patriots), he's committed to it and by and large it has delivered results in terms of quality players if not great team performances (Falcons, Chiefs)

#2 he has a stupendous work ethic...  he does his homework on players and he is serious as a heart attack about his job... a clear upgrade over Angelo who seemed to treat it as a hobby

#3 he has very high standards for himself and others; you get the impression that anyone who underperforms on Emery's watch will get one chance to pick up the pace, and if they're still not getting it done after that they'll be unemployed.

A couple articles have tried to spin Emery as the poor man's Ted Thompson and while I think that's not really fair to either guy, we could certainly use a guy in charge with some of TT's attributes (and hopefully, his ridiculously good instincts).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 08:05:47 am
Meh...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-smith-to-talk-with-alex-van-pelt-about-qb-coachpassing-coordinator-job-20120130,0,483091.story

The Buccaneers' offense was not good and Josh Freeman had a terrible season.

OTOH Van Pelt has actually played the game so maybe he'll have some cred with Cutler cause of that.  Cutler clearly didn't respect the first two QB coaches we saddled him with (for good reason), and the team suffered as a result.

And he might be the only guy that will take the gig at this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 08:15:30 am
This is disturbing... (from the Tribune):

"[Emery] plans to bolster and restructure not only the scouting department but the system the Bears use to scout. That was part of the presentation that sold Phillips and ownership, but is something that will not take place until after the draft."

So while Emery has this great system grounded in the "Patriot way", they're not going to use that system for this year's draft. They're going to be using Angelo's system and presumably the Bears' scouts already on staff (who have done such terrific work for us these past few years :'( ).  Emery won't really be able to put his stamp on a Bears draft until 2013.

God help us all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 31, 2012, 08:24:02 am
Well, Yapp, I'd venture to say they would not be able to get it set up and running in a strongly cohesive way to benefit this draft anyway. I still am giving him the benefit of the doubt. We know what we need and where we need it first. IF he even begins to address these much needed areas of weakness on the team, I'll be encouraged. Time will tell....  How many times were we just dumbfounded by the choices Angelo made during a draft? Hypothesizing that he'll pick thus and so and then he does the unthinkable and either ignores it entirely or picks something just off the wall. Hopefully those days are behind us....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 31, 2012, 08:40:29 am
I'll have to agree with Sporty, with the college season over much of the scouting is already done. I expect the senior bowl and combine just help cement a few things.

I also expect that he is going to pick who he feels best about based on needs/vs BPA. I expect the changes will be more organizational structure (as the article mentioned) and maybe some new faces. They might also have some new guidelines in certain areas that the scouts need to apply.

What gets me is Bellicheck can (and has at least 2X) take  WR and turn them into a pretty good part time corner at one of the hardest positions to play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 08:49:40 am
Become familiar with the name Melvin Ingram as I believe it is very likely he will be our 1st round pick.  Especially if WR is addressed via FA prior to the draft.

He's a Henry Melton type who while very undersized (6'1, 275), has a strong repertoire of pass rush moves, is extremely athletic and can supposedly even move inside in certain situations.  He is coming off a very productive college season against top SEC competition (48 Tackles, 15 TFL and 10 sacks), and he looked good in the Senior Bowl, second only to Quentin Coples who is a likely Top 12 pick.

Disclosure:  this guy scares me a bunch as I'm not sure his skills will overcome his measurables when he starts facing NFL OTs week in and week out. Maybe he's the next Dwight Freeney but maybe he's the next John Thierry. I'm not saying he's the pick I want, but he could be the BPA at 19 and he fits Lovie's profile perfectly. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 31, 2012, 10:14:20 am
In some ways a new GM has an advantage in that he has draft info from the team that he leaves + info from his new team's scouting crew,
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 31, 2012, 10:40:46 am
It very well could end up being an advantage beings he gets different views of the same player.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 10:44:07 am
Yeah, the deal though is that the Chiefs scouts probably weren't looking real hard at WRs, OL, DL or DBs cause the Chiefs are very solid at all those positions...  whereas those are exactly the positions where the Bears are weak.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 31, 2012, 11:44:23 am
Disclosure:  this guy scares me a bunch as I'm not sure his skills will overcome his measurables when he starts facing NFL OTs week in and week out. Maybe he's the next Dwight Freeney but maybe he's the next John Thierry. I'm not saying he's the pick I want, but he could be the BPA at 19 and he fits Lovie's profile perfectly. 

John Thierry was not undersized and had exceptional measurables - he had prototype DE size.  However, he was from a small school (Alcorn St?) and never faced quality competition.

One thing I've learned over the years is that pass rushers come in all shapes and sizes and some are undersized (Freeney, Dummerville, Robert Mathis).   If Ingram possesses Freeney's explosiveness and couple that with the strong level of competition he faced then he could be one of the guys the Bears consider at 19.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 31, 2012, 11:47:35 am
Yeah, the deal though is that the Chiefs scouts probably weren't looking real hard at WRs, OL, DL or DBs cause the Chiefs are very solid at all those positions...  whereas those are exactly the positions where the Bears are weak.

I'd bet scouts are scouting all positions during the season.  Team's position priorities can change throughout the course of the season due to injuries and performance. 

Well, except for the BEars:  OL, WR and DE
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 31, 2012, 11:56:59 am
I would tend to agree with DB, I would hope these guys scout every eligible player in their area.
I would expect them to pay more attention to the areas you know the team needs but you need to know your guys.
You might not actually select a RB when you have Forte and Barber but you need to know where they stand.
Ranking the players helps you know who other teams might pick as well so that you know if you need to trade up to get a guy or if he will likely be there at your spot.

Also, maybe a G isn't a huge need this year but the top rated G is available and the next ranked guy is kind of a reach maybe you take the G and upgrade your position.

I mean the Giants might not take a WR with Manningham, Hicks and Cruz but if WR is the highest ranked guy there and one of the three you have  might be really hard to resign in a year you take the WR.


I mean if Bowe is an FA then likely the scouting dept is scouting potential replacements in case he signs somewhere else.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 12:00:07 pm
IF Floyd, Mike Adams and Dre Kirkpatrick are gone at 19 I'd be fine with Ingram.  He would definitely be a smarter pick than the Nebraska CB, the C from Wisconsin, any OT ranked lower than Adams or any other guy I've seen going to the Bears in various mocks. 

But if we take Ingram with one or more of those guys still on the board, I would seriously have to question whether we hit the sweet spot of need and value.

Teams like the Lions, Packers and Saints are going to offenses where the ball comes out in 2 seconds.  How much good does a pass rushing DE do you in situations like that?  Seems to me against today's offenses the best defense isn't a strong edge rush but rather, tall strong DTs that can get off the block, get their hands up quick in front of the QBs face, and either bat down the ball or at least close off his throwing windows.

The biggest thing the Bears need to improve this offseason is their ability to score points and particularly through the air. That means WR and secondarily, OL.  Addressing both of those positions through both the draft and FA would not be overkill.

The second most important thing they need to improve is pass coverage.  They need guys who can shut down WRs, beat up TEs and get some INTs. In other words, guys that can get the D off the field on those 3rd-and-longs instead of giving up 1st down after 1st down.

Pass rush, IMO, is also important to upgrade but not as important as the first two areas.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 31, 2012, 12:08:37 pm
I agree Yap, OL and WR is much more important than pass rush.
I think cover corner would be next in line, make the QB hold the ball longer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 31, 2012, 12:29:48 pm
well, one columnist likes the new GM (Pompei) and, well one doesn't.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-does-emery-know-how-to-judge-coaches-20120131,0,3852596.column
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 31, 2012, 01:07:18 pm
Think the Bears need to draft D players with monkey arms and put platform cleats on em. Maybe they should issue huge foam hands to them as well. THEN let's see super QB's pass on em!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on January 31, 2012, 02:20:55 pm

I too would probably rank WR and OL ahead of DE, but that doesn't mean we can't draft a DE in round 1 if he's head and shoulders better than any OT or WR on the board.

But if the players are ranked pretty close then you can go with the 'need' pick.  Plus you have to factor in who you are targeting in free agency.

Remember we're not just drafting to fill a hole for 2012 - the guys we pick could be playing for 8 to 10 years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 02:34:10 pm
Melvin Ingram strikes me as very much a John Randle type.  A smallish guy who gets the job done with unusual strength for his size, great leverage, a non-stop motor and deceptive speed.  Any of you who saw Randle play live or on film know that his initial burst was just ridiculous...  he'd be on top of the opposing OL before he even knew what hit him.

You'll also recall that although Randle was listed as a DT, he also saw time at DE.  Ingram is the reverse of that (a DE who can also play DT), but to have a guy you can move around to exploit the weakest link of the OL can only help.

The potential problem with guys like Ingram is that once they lose that inital burst -- whether through age or injury -- their career is pretty much over because they become an easy 1-on-1 block at their size. Exhibit A, Tommie Harris. Exhibit B, Chris Zorich. So if you're looking for a guy that could be an impact player out of the gate, Ingram could be that guy but the tradeoff is a potentially shorter shelf life. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 03:53:06 pm
Just read a BleacherReport article where a guy predicted Emery would let Idonije walk and replace him with Calais Campbell, the 25-year old FA DE from the Cardinals.

Izzy is a good player and a quality guy so I would be shocked if that really happened, but if it did, it would have to be considered an upgrade. Campbell is a physical freak (6'8 300) who has been under the radar on bad Arizona teams but could present opposing OLs with some real problems if they had to choose between doubling him and Peppers. 

This past year was Campbell's best as a pro with 53 solo tackles, 8 sacks, 10 passes defended, 2 forced fumbles and an INT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 31, 2012, 03:59:09 pm
Sign Campbell and keep the Izz!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 04:01:41 pm
Sign Campbell and keep the Izz!!!

Yeah, and cut bait on Wootton.

Sounds good to me.  The only problem with that is, between the money you'd be paying those two DEs there wouldn't be enough left over for a WR.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 04:10:52 pm
It will be very interesting to see how much churn (or not) there is on the Bears DL this offseason.

Other than Peppers, the group clearly underperformed, especially in pass situations.  But the question is, who's to blame?

Here's how I break it out:

   Locks - Peppers, Paea, Toeaina, Melton

   Probably Returning - Izzy

   Hanging by a Thread - Wootton

   Goners - Anthony Adams

Did I forget anyone?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 31, 2012, 04:24:41 pm
Has Bowman been cut yet?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 31, 2012, 04:29:10 pm
No one has been cut yet that I know of.

But then, it is only Emery's 2nd day on the job. I assume he'll want to talk to the coaches and watch some film before he starts swinging the axe.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 31, 2012, 10:04:45 pm

 I will miss Angelo, Martz, and Ruskell, but I can still see them on the AMC channel.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5a45f1uy80 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5a45f1uy80)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 31, 2012, 10:33:49 pm
LOL!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on January 31, 2012, 10:37:36 pm
Simply excellent. But you insult the greatest trio of comedians of all time.  Soitenlee!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 01, 2012, 05:19:35 am
Mario Willaims or Cliff Avril?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 01, 2012, 07:09:07 am
Nyuk nyuk nyuk, HEY! Why I oughtta.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 01, 2012, 08:42:38 am
Mario Willaims or Cliff Avril?

Dreamer
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on February 01, 2012, 10:24:12 am

Tim Ruskell out as Bears player personnel director

 By Sean Jensen on January 30, 2012 10:19 AM| 8 Comments| No TrackBacks



New Bears general manager Phil Emery didn't waste much time making a big decision.

He's relieved Tim Ruskell of his duties as the Bears director of player personnel. The team described the decision as "mutually agreed upon."

Ruskell had been the interim general manager since Jerry Angelo was let go Jan. 3. Ruskell had previously been the president of the Seattle Seahawks.

Ruskell and Emery have history, though.

When he was the assistant general manager in Atlanta, Ruskell hired Emery as the college scouting director. That was Emery's first big break in the NFL, having served as an area scout for the Bears from 1998 to 2004.

Details aren't clear. But, it's believed Ruskell will collect the remainder of his contract.

One of the reasons for the move, as well, is that Emery is expected to structure his department with a director for the college and pro side, not someone who oversees both
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 01, 2012, 10:52:10 am
The Ruskell thing happened a couple days ago already...  but it's such good news I don't mind seeing it again.

 ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 01, 2012, 11:10:09 am
Packedrat will blame the liberals as his reason for posting that late. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 01, 2012, 11:47:09 am
Since the Trib really isn't doing much for coverage these days, here's a good site for your daily Bears fix:

http://bleacherreport.com/chicago-bears

The articles are always really good and absent the "homerism" and Halas Hall spin often seen in the Chicago media. There's a bunch of good reading in there right now on what the Bears could/should do this offseason.  How much of it (if any) actually comes to pass remains to be seen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on February 01, 2012, 01:50:15 pm
Sounds good to me.  The only problem with that is, between the money you'd be paying those two DEs there wouldn't be enough left over for a WR.


Yet the Giants have a d-line of  Osi Umeniyora (as a backup), Justin Tuck, FAs Chris Canty Dave Tollefson, and Rocky Bernard, plus 2010 first round pick Jason Pierre Paul and 2nd round pick Linval Joseph.

And we can't afford to keep Izzy? 

If we were so lucky to sign or draft a guy that can displace Izzy at DE, then Izzy become the 3rd DE.  You can play him at DE run downs and put him at DT on pass downs.  Lots of flexibility and you can put him back on STs where he was valuable.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 01, 2012, 02:22:31 pm
No doubt, a scenario where we could keep Izzy AND add a guy like Calais Campbell (who may also be able to play inside), would be the best of both worlds.

Then you'd have Peppers 6'7, Izzy 6'6 and Campbell 6'8 and that should definitely cut down the throwing windows for the short routes, especially if you send two of those three guys up the middle.

BTW, Calais Campbell's 8 sacks this season came playing DE in a 3-4 front.  That kind of sack production from a 3-4 DE is almost unheard of. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 01, 2012, 02:37:42 pm
If we signed this guy, we could probably get by with either Webb or Chris Williams at LT. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/01/carl-nicks-wants-to-remain-with-saints/

He's an absolute mountain of a man and the best LG in the biz right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on February 01, 2012, 09:18:44 pm
Packedrat will blame the liberals as his reason for posting that late. 

(http://www.thewolfweb.com/photos/00001814.jpg)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 02, 2012, 04:06:26 pm
Article on Johnny Knox.  First I've heard about his progress.  It says he's in a back brace till mid-March.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-knox-recalls-devastating-hit-like-it-was-yesterday-20120202,0,7798460.story

I don't know if back injuries affect one's speed as much as leg injuries but I have to think he'll never be as fast again as he was before this.  And at his size, he doesn't have much margin for error if his speed is gone. Damn shame.

Figuring out what to do with Knox could be one of Emery's biggest challenges, right out of the gate.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on February 02, 2012, 04:30:07 pm
Packedrat will blame US liberals as his reason for posting that late. 


Nah, he wouldn't do that...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on February 02, 2012, 04:31:54 pm
I don't see Knox coming back. I hate to say that, but that was a pretty serious injury...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 02, 2012, 04:39:20 pm
Even if he were to come back he would be one hit away from maybe parilization. That wouldnt be how I would want to spent the rest of my life
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 02, 2012, 04:42:27 pm
Yeah... if it's one of those deals where another hit could mean paralysis, he would be a fool to come back.

Much as we might want to see Hester retired from WR duties, we may have to keep giving him reps at WR by default.  If Knox is done then Hester's our only deep threat unless we do something "out there" like signing DeShaun Jackson.  Or drafting a smaller speed burner in the mid rounds.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 02, 2012, 04:52:10 pm
I think the bleacher report had us going after Bowe. Now correct me if I am wrong but isnt he from the Chiefs? and isnt that where Emery came from? Hmmmm, I wonder......
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on February 02, 2012, 05:40:34 pm
I worry more about Knox's head than his back. I doubt that he would be cleared to play if there was a danger of further  injury but I don't know how you get your head right after a hit an injury like that. Talk about hearing footsteps.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 02, 2012, 05:54:43 pm
If he had not fumbled the ball he would not have gotten hurt trying to get it back. 

My understanding is that it is not a career threatening injury.  Once it is fully healed he will be as good as new.  Also he got hurt going after a fumble not getting slammed going over the middle. 

He has never been one to give up his body for a catch so I don't see how it effcts his game that much.  Unless he becomes scared of going after fumbles which would be bad since he has been known to fumble now and again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 02, 2012, 08:37:56 pm
I guess I haven't seen that much of Bowe but a lot of people are saying he's the best WR out of the whole FA class and I guess I don't get it.

He's not terribly big (6'2 220), not super fast, he's never **** 1,200 yds for a season and his TDs fell off big time this year compared to last (5 TDs this year vs. 15 last year).  So is he a great route runner or does he have tremendous vertical or great hands, or all of the above?

I mean, that's still a decent size upgrade over our current WRs but if we want that real dominating physical presence at WR it seems to me Vincent Jackson or even Colston have to be considered a better fit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 02, 2012, 09:02:00 pm
He had Orton and Palko throwing to him...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 02, 2012, 09:15:10 pm
I still can't believe the Bears lost to Palko. Honest to God, Angelo should at least feel somewhat bad for the boning he gave the Bears, espcially backup qbs he brought in.  Awful doesn't begin to cover it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 02, 2012, 09:27:01 pm
Angelo had to go.  That was terrible.

A GM makes his name on the bottom of the depth chart and Angelo failed.

Plus having to spend huge bucks and draft picks to get Peppers and Cutler showed how bad he was failing at drafting talent.  Love those two pick ups by the way but iof he was doing his job they either would not have been neccesary or they would have put the Bears in the Superbowl.

He failed period and I am glad he is gone.  Now how long does Lovie get?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on February 03, 2012, 09:44:40 am
Actually, I think a GM makes his bones with how his top draft picks pan out- as they are his "signature" picks and if they fail, so generally does the team to get over the hump.....

He can last longer if his bottom picks pan out (I think this was Jer's MO actually- Forget hitting on the high picks but hit enough of the low picks to appear competent....)

That said, it was not all his fault- but he was part of the problem at Halas Hall- not the solution. It is yet to be seen if Lovie is solution or part of the problem as well.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 03, 2012, 11:27:33 am
I worry more about Knox's head than his back. I doubt that he would be cleared to play if there was a danger of further  injury but I don't know how you get your head right after a hit an injury like that. Talk about hearing footsteps.

Agree 100%.  He may start having alligator arms if he is afraid of getting bent backwards again. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on February 04, 2012, 12:53:26 am

 Emery ... I just dont know what the fuuuck is going on here yet.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 07, 2012, 03:09:01 am
Reggie Wayne, anyone? Get him and DeSean or Cut's reciever out in Miami and we'd be set.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 07, 2012, 05:40:32 am
After watching the Giant's receivers, Cutler should have had serious consideration for the league MVP that went to Rodgers.  Nicks was incredible, every catch he made i am thinking and seething about Roy Williams.  He just snatched the ball, there was little doubt that the ball was going to be velcroed everytime it came his way.  Manningham and Cruz to boot?  I don't know who they had behind those 3, but our receivers fall in line after Manningham.

That would be a good target for Cutler, but would love to have Nicks... 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 07, 2012, 08:26:29 am
I remember the big knock coming out on Nicks was his speed.  And I've pretty much come to the conclusion that straight line speed is really overrated when it comes to WRs.  Especially when you're facing pass rushes that barely give your QB 3 seconds to get the ball out anyway. I mean yeah, Hester's fast but how far has that gotten him as a WR?  Same with DeShaun Jackson.

What's more important than speed per se is the ability to separate from coverage, i.e., open up a window for your QB to get you the ball. We haven't had a big WR that can do that consistently for... well...  pretty much forever.

The good news is, this draft is chock full of WRs who are exactly like Nicks.  Big, strong guys with good hands who will never turn more than about a 4.5 in shorts but are gonna make plenty of catches on Sundays for the next few years for the teams smart enough to look past the 40 and pick them up.  There is more value at the WR position in this draft, right down to the 3rd round, then there has been in years and I hope our new GM is smart enough to take advantage.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on February 07, 2012, 08:50:33 am
Eli talked about familiarity of the offense as credit to his improved numbers - both he and his receivers have been in the same offense for 3 years - so they read and react to things similarly now
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 07, 2012, 11:33:56 am
Wow...  another one I didn't see coming.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-hire-bates-to-be-qb-coach-20120207,0,6705053.story

Great news for Cutler.  Gotta wonder if Emery pulled rank cause according to multiple reports Lovie wasn't keen on this guy.

There isn't much not to like about Bates, IMO.  He helped Seattle get to the playoffs (and beat the Saints) with a Seahawks team that had even less talent on offense than the Bears...  so with some offseason upgrades at OL and WR here I think he'll do just fine.

It's rather embarrassing that it looks like we're getting him by default when he should have been our first pick all along...  but as long as we don't botch the OL coach hiring and Emery doesn't step on his dick in the draft, I have to rate this offseason as being pretty successful.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on February 07, 2012, 11:59:49 am
When is the last time the Bears made an offensive coaching hire and you thought, "Well, that was well handled and went smoothly?"
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 07, 2012, 12:04:22 pm
When is the last time the Bears made an offensive coaching hire and you thought, "Well, that was well handled and went smoothly?"

I can't remember the last time I could say that about ANY Bears hire...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 07, 2012, 12:19:23 pm
I like this hire.  Think it's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on February 07, 2012, 12:25:17 pm
Can anyone tell me how to stop the video and sound from starting up whenever you look at a tribune web page? Is there a setting I can change?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 07, 2012, 12:26:40 pm
Now get Brandon Marshall in here and they can put the band back together.

28 years old, 6'4 230, highly motivated to play on a good team, and loves Cutler...  works for me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 07, 2012, 12:31:33 pm
"We're on a mission from God".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: FITS on February 07, 2012, 12:32:18 pm
Can anyone tell me how to stop the video and sound from starting up whenever you look at a tribune web page? Is there a setting I can change?

+1

Been looking for that myself, Keys.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 07, 2012, 01:33:39 pm
Someone that worked well with Cutler, are you kidding me.  If we can get a WR that can hold on to the ball, and shore up the OL we could really be on to something.  A couple of upgrades on D, and next season could be kind of special.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 07, 2012, 01:34:26 pm
Here's a stat from ChicagoBears.com that tells you how truly pathetic the Bears' legacy at the QB position is:

After three seasons with the Bears, Cutler is the franchise’s all-time leader with an 82.1 passer rating and ranks second in completion percentage (59.9).

Not even 60% completion and that's 2nd best in franchise history.  Wow, just wow.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 07, 2012, 01:35:51 pm
Someone that worked well with Cutler, are you kidding me.  If we can get a WR that can hold on to the ball, and shore up the OL we could really be on to something.  A couple of upgrades on D, and next season could be kind of special.  Fingers crossed.

No doubt, "fingers crossed". We've got to stay healthy.  Losing 2 starting OL, Cutler and Forte just killed us. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 07, 2012, 01:38:09 pm
If we can get a WR that can hold on to the ball, and shore up the OL we could really be on to something.  A couple of upgrades on D, and next season could be kind of special.  Fingers crossed.

I don't see our WR's having problems catching the ball.  When Cutler was back there healthy we were putting up over 30 a game after that disaster in Detroit.  I didn't have an issue with our receivers except Roy Williams.  With Knox suspect going into this season and with Williams not coming back I agree wholeheartedly we need help there going into next year.  And throw to the TE's sometimes!

Your quote about the defense is totally right on the money.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 07, 2012, 01:44:21 pm
From the Trib, under Bates Cutler in 08 threw for a franchise best 4529 yards.  In one year! Close to 300 yds per game. And, it means he outthrew the much vaunted John Elway. Man, get that kid from Miami!  Get this party started!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 07, 2012, 01:45:31 pm
By and large, our D did really well against the rush last season.

Against the pass...  not so much.  We need to get much better on 3rd and long defense, i.e., much better pressure from our front 4 and more INTs by the back 7.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 07, 2012, 02:23:50 pm
Keys, I hear ya. That is so annoying when it just starts like that....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 07, 2012, 06:42:44 pm
Wow...  another one I didn't see coming.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-hire-bates-to-be-qb-coach-20120207,0,6705053.story

Great news for Cutler.  Gotta wonder if Emery pulled rank cause according to multiple reports Lovie wasn't keen on this guy.

There isn't much not to like about Bates, IMO.  He helped Seattle get to the playoffs (and beat the Saints) with a Seahawks team that had even less talent on offense than the Bears...  so with some offseason upgrades at OL and WR here I think he'll do just fine.

It's rather embarrassing that it looks like we're getting him by default when he should have been our first pick all along...  but as long as we don't botch the OL coach hiring and Emery doesn't step on his dick in the draft, I have to rate this offseason as being pretty successful.

I believe this is truely good news. I guess that Lovie's reservations about Bates were overcomed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on February 07, 2012, 08:38:16 pm
Shouldn't they just make Bates the passing game coordinator they've been looking for?

What's the deal? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on February 07, 2012, 09:39:14 pm

 Bates was out of the league last season, but he worked well with Cutler as an assistant for three years in Denver. In Chicago, he will serve under new offensive coordinator Mike Tice.

Cutler had a strained relationship with former Bears offensive coordinator Ron Turner during their lone season together in 2009 and took a beating at times the past two seasons in Mike Martz's system. But in Denver, Bates played a key role in Cutler's development.

"His history with Jay was a big thing," coach Lovie Smith told the teams official website "And not just history with Jay but a good history, a productive history with him helping Jay as a quarterback."


Cutler said the Bears hired the right man.


"He was very vital in my growth and my experience as a quarterback (in Denver)," Cutler told the team's website. "The last couple years he had full control of my development and our plays coming in. He's a grinder. He's a guy that's going to work extremely hard to find weaknesses in defenses and he's going to be able to present it to us in a way that we understand and will be able to make plays where we can take advantage of those weaknesses."


Cutler enjoyed some his most productive seasons working with from 2006 to 2008 in Denver. He threw for a franchise-record 4,526 yards in 2008 and made the Pro Bowl.


Bates was assistant head coach of the offense and quarterbacks coach at Southern California in 2009.

He left with coach Pete Carroll to become Seattle's offensive coordinator but was fired after the 2010 season.

Bates, who also has been an assistant with Tampa Bay (2002-04) and the New York Jets (2005), interviewed with Smith in Tampa last week.

He then met with Tice at the team's headquarters. The Bears also interviewed former Tampa Bay offensive coordinator Greg Olson.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on February 07, 2012, 09:44:49 pm
Shouldn't they just make Bates the passing game coordinator they've been looking for?

What's the deal? 

Watching the Blackhawks and there was one of the Comcast sports blurbs where they said the the Bears were forgetting about the passing coordinator position and speculated that Bates would be more involved in the play calling than originally thought.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on February 08, 2012, 05:08:15 am
Can anyone tell me how to stop the video and sound from starting up whenever you look at a tribune web page? Is there a setting I can change?

Yep, that's a pain in the a$$!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on February 08, 2012, 06:43:52 am
Mute your speakers in the start bar
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 08:30:59 am
Watching the Blackhawks and there was one of the Comcast sports blurbs where they said the the Bears were forgetting about the passing coordinator position and speculated that Bates would be more involved in the play calling than originally thought.

LOL.  I bet anything that what winds up happening is, Bates gets a QB coach title but is the de facto OC (without the title), while Tice has the OC title but will basically just continue what he's been doing with the OL.  And the Bears won't hire a dedicated OL Coach at all. It would be convoluted, confusing and ass-backwards as hell but then what do you expect from this outfit? 

I guess if it works though, whatever. It could look something like Tice and Bates collaborating on the offensive gameplanning with Tice having the final say during the week (and at halftime), but then deferring to Bates on in-game playcalling.  It may very well have been that playcalling was the sticking point with Bates and if Tice didn't really want to do it anyway and was willing to relinquish that, that may have been what got Bates to sign-on the 2nd time around.  It could also mean that Cutler will have wide latitude to run the offense from behind center.

For Bates, I don't see him having to make much of an adjustment. Assuming we improve our WR situation he could potentially have better talent to work with than he did in Seattle, and about the same caliber of personnel (on average) as he did in Denver. Out OL won't be as good as Denver's was, but Forte is eons better than the RB the Broncos had while he was there.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 08, 2012, 08:52:15 am
I would love, love, to see a Chicago Bears inc. organizational chart of personnel and titles.  Betcha is looks like a bowl of spagetti.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 09:50:13 am
Dallasbear was asking about McNeill last week...  here's the latest:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/08/chargers-expected-to-waive-marcus-mcneill/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on February 08, 2012, 11:26:49 am
The Bates thing sounds like one of the best moves the Bears could've made. With that said, if they don't do something about the receivers it won't make a sh!t. If Roy Williams would dedicate himself to football and workout with Jay this off season, I'd give him another shot (I know, unpopular).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on February 08, 2012, 11:35:14 am
chifan, I would agree with you. He seemed to be building a little more chemistry with Cutler later in the season before Cutler went down.

I guess it depends on who else is available.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 11:40:35 am
If Emery is as hard-azz a guy as he's been portrayed, I expect Roy Williams will be on an extremely short leash going forward, if in fact he is even brought back at all.

The beauty of having a new GM is that he has no investment in any of these guys whatsoever. He can cut half the roster if he wants and it will only reflect badly on his predecessor, not him.  As long as replaces every guy he cuts with someone better, that's all you can ask for.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 11:52:50 am
I'm starting to see some mock drafts with us taking the WR from Baylor.

Man...  I don't know how I'd feel about that.  A 5'10 straight-line burner is really not what we need, especially if Michael Floyd were also still on the board (who is a much better fit for the new WCO-based offense we'll be running). 

OTOH if Johnny Knox is done for we'll probably need some speed.  The only way I'd be on board with Wright would be if we had gotten a big WR in FA already.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 08, 2012, 11:55:01 am
I'm all for a speedy receiver.  Can this guy from Baylor return kicks?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 12:14:49 pm
I don't know if he returns kicks.

But since it sounds like this year's kickoff rules are going to stand, KRs don't have the value they used to, either. Doesn't take a lot of skill to stand 5 yards deep in the end zone and watch the kickoff go through it.

Punt returns, that's a whole nother story but we've got Hester for that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 08, 2012, 12:37:53 pm
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1057775-chicago-bears-mock-draft-how-bears-can-acquire-dream-targets

The guy that wrote that needs a reality check. The Bears would be foolish to trade up for Blackmon, absolutely insane. Trade up for a LT, yeah sure or even a stud defensive player. I would go after Vincent Jackson or even Brandon Marshall before I'd trade up for Blackmon. Besides, its not Bears modus operandi to trade up like that. Just stands as much a chance a snowball lasts in hell. Thats not to say I would be shocked if the Bears moved up a few slots to get their target. I just dont see the Bears moving up to top five. Nor do I see them trading both 3's to Miami for Brandon Marshall. Some of their other draft picks are flat out wishful thinking.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 12:45:59 pm
Wshful, I agree and I think the biggest flaw in that guy's article is to assume that Briggs and our 1st rounder would be enough to get us up to 5 from 19.  That assumes a hell of a lot of value for Briggs, who is a very good player but is closer to the end of his productive career than the beginning. 

Also you have to question the scenario of making all those moves (including giving up the 2013 2nd rounder), just to get Blackmon and Brandon Marshall while completely ignoring the OL.  Clearly the writer assumes that having two legit WR targets will help Cutler more than improving the OL personnel.  It's chicken and egg I understand, but if Cutler's on his back he could have Andre Johnson, Larry Fitszgerald and Calvin Johnson all in the pattern and it still wouldn't help.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 08, 2012, 01:52:00 pm
Roy Williams was brought in because he flourished one year under Martz.  Please, lets just cut our losses and move on.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 08, 2012, 02:01:33 pm
Yep, that guy totally ignores the OL.  Maybe he is related to Angelo????
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 08, 2012, 02:32:13 pm
Ya know, I was strongly in the camp of keeping Briggs the last few years he screwed around, wanted traded, redone contract, etc etc. Now, my opinion has changed. His age will soon become a factor and BIG IF we can get a very good trade done using him, I'd be for it. I love Briggs but he's really becoming a distraction and he's heading to the end of his usefulness so yea, I'd probably go for it if it were a knockout trade....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 02:36:54 pm
We'd have a better chance of pulling off a major draft-day tradeup if we put Hester on the block rather than Briggs, IMHO.

A lot of Bears fans would be really upset to see either of those guys walk, but I'm almost certain Hester would bring more in value than Briggs at this point.

The problem with trading Briggs is that it pretty much forces you to go right back to the draft to fill the hole you just created (as in that Bleacher Report scenario)...  and then that's a pick you can't use on another position.  And if that rookie didn't step right in from Day One and play at Briggs' level, we'd be hosed. Whereas with Hester, presumably we'll be phasing him out of the offense anyway and we do have other guys on the team that can return punts even if not at a Hall of Fame level.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 08, 2012, 02:39:01 pm
Hester stays.  Wouldn't deal him at all.  THAT would be a big mistake.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 02:44:55 pm
And I'm definitely not in favor of dealing Hester either, but I'm just saying if you're really gonna go all-in to make a major move up in the 1st round, that's the caliber of player it would take.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 03:34:02 pm
People are finally starting to talk about Johnny Knox' prospects for this season and what I'm hearing ain't good.

I'm thinking more and more that we're gonna be in the market for 2 WRs this offseason, not just one.  Which pretty much means we'll have to address that position in both the FA market and a premium round of the draft if we're gonna get two guys that can come in and contribute from Day One.   OL and the defense are gonna have to take a backseat if and when it's determined that Knox can't go this season.  Sucks to say but that's the way it's looking.

Nice depth, Angelo.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 03:45:30 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-hire-tim-holt-as-offensive-line-coach-20120208,0,4521282.story

Bet you'll never guess what team he worked for last...

What I get from the article is that this hire is a young guy who is basically gonna be Tice's caddy while Tice continues to spend time on the OL.  But that's pretty much what I expected.  Normally, I'd want a guy with a lot more experience for this critical position, but Tice has worked so hard with these guys up till now that in this case, I think it's better they bring in someone that will just keep the momentum going vs. a veteran OL coach who would want to come in and blow everything up again.

And actually, if we have to take someone off the Bucs hands this is probably the best guy cause the OL was about the only part of that Bucs team that looked decent last year. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 08, 2012, 04:31:18 pm
People are finally starting to talk about Johnny Knox' prospects for this season and what I'm hearing ain't good.

I'm thinking more and more that we're gonna be in the market for 2 WRs this offseason, not just one.  Which pretty much means we'll have to address that position in both the FA market and a premium round of the draft if we're gonna get two guys that can come in and contribute from Day One.   OL and the defense are gonna have to take a backseat if and when it's determined that Knox can't go this season.  Sucks to say but that's the way it's looking.

Nice depth, Angelo.

That really scares me. I think Knox is done. If it were me I'd retire and start a family in a hurry.  And I agree we are going to need 2 WRs. And I dont believe we are going to give up 2 #3's for Brandon Marshall. A third this year and a third next year I might do but we cant afford to give up this years draft and half of next years draft for players. We cant afford that. We arent the Pats with all those extra picks because we've wasted picks in the past.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 04:37:16 pm
We can absorb Knox' loss as a kick returner cause the new kickoff rules have pretty much taken KRs out of the equation.

His role as a field stretcher will be harder to replace.  Either we'll have to keep using Hester on certain plays in that capacity, or we'll have to draft a burner or sign one in FA.

The past few years our offense has overemphasized speed at WRs at the expense of size...  but you don't want to swing the pendulum totally in the other direction either. Even if we are going to a WCO-type scheme with Tice, someone's got to be able to keep those DB's honest or else you can't get things done over the middle and your ground game gets plugged up too. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 08, 2012, 04:42:27 pm
IMHO they are going to have to spend some money in FA. Knox and Williams are gone. Thats 2 right there. If you could get Marshall or Bowe for a 3rd rounder, I'd jump on it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 08, 2012, 04:47:00 pm
I'm starting to see some mock drafts with us taking Kendall Wright. If Knox hadn't gotten hurt then it would be ludicrous for the Bears to draft a 5'10 WR in any round, much less the 1st.  But if Knox is finished then picking up a guy like Wright makes more sense.  But then we'd still have to get the big WR in FA.

We did fine between the 20s last year but our red zone offense was despicable. A guy like Wright isn't gonna do you much good there, that's where you need the 6'3 225-lb stud with a 40-inch vertical and great hands.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on February 08, 2012, 07:08:07 pm
What are you hearing about Knox, Yapper?  Career-over rumors?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 08, 2012, 07:24:33 pm
I am hearing he may not play this season.  He says he will not come back until he is 100% plus he had some vertebrae in his back fused. 

My guess is even if he comes back he will never be the same.  Might as well retire.  Just my opinion.  I don;t know how a receiver can play the game if they have part of their back fused.  I mean **** he is a terrible route runner now.

I guess he still would be able to run real fast down field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 08, 2012, 07:29:19 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/08/johnny-knox-faces-long-road-to-recovery-from-back-injury/

The latest information I have seen.  I don't think anyone really knows.  But I think the first reports were BS.  His career is in danger and if I were him I would seriously consider hanging it up.  However I would first make sure the Bears payed all my medical bills and my entire contract.  Meaning you don't retire until the contract runs out or the Bears cut you and you get an injury settlement.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on February 08, 2012, 07:36:14 pm
I have never been a big fan of creating holes to fill.  I don't like the idea of trading Briggs or Hester.  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 09, 2012, 05:19:51 am
Trading a strength, had the same thought.  You don't miss Hester until he is gone...

I do kind of follow Sporty on the Briggs statement, but kind of the same principle of breaking something that works.  I think I under value Briggs, don't know why...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 09, 2012, 08:05:19 am
Here we go...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/09/vincent-jackson-expected-to-hit-open-market/

Get this done, Emery. Cutler has waited too long already.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 09, 2012, 08:11:52 am
The latest information I have seen.  I don't think anyone really knows.  But I think the first reports were BS. 

The Bears are notorious for this.  Remember Carimi?  By initial reports he was supposed to be back in 4 weeks.  Then next thing you know it's surgery and the IR.

His career is in danger and if I were him I would seriously consider hanging it up.  However I would first make sure the Bears payed all my medical bills and my entire contract.  Meaning you don't retire until the contract runs out or the Bears cut you and you get an injury settlement.

The Bears are also well known for screwing players over in situations like this.  Presumably his agent will be looking out for him but those guys don't always have the legal background to know when something fishy is going on. Knox is on a 5th-round rookie contract so he's not exactly dripping with cash, but it would definitely be in his best interests to hire some professional legal counsel to keep an eye on everything.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 09, 2012, 10:19:01 am
One thing about Emery being the GM...

With his background, I would not be surprised at all if the 2012 Bears squad is the best conditioned group we've seen on the field in a long time.  Which hopefully will translate to fewer injuries and fewer cases of players fading down the stretch in games and at the end of the season (which unfortunately has been a Bears trademark, especially on the D).

Rusty Jones and his gang had better step it up cause I'm sure Emery is casting an especially keen eye towards that part of the operation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 09, 2012, 12:19:28 pm
Re the potential FA WR crop...  I don't have any insight into Emery's thinking but if I had to speculate on his wish list it would look like this:

1) Bowe
Positives
  - Emery knows him very well from their days in KC; assuming Emery liked him there, this would be the most comfortable pick
  - He has experience being the #1 guy with mediocre to terrible QBs (Cassell, Orton, Palko)...  good potential to take his game to the next level if paired with an elite QB
  - Durable; has only missed 5 games in a 5-year career

Negatives
  - Only average measurables (6'2, 221) relative to guys like Vincent Jackson and Colston.  Will not dominate a game from a physical standpoint; will not always command a double team as he can be contained 1-on-1 by better CBs
  - Has never broken the 1,200 yard barrier in his career
  - Coming off a very poor 2011 season for scoring (only 5 TDs) (though this could be a positive if he uses it as motivation with his new team)
  - Has played his entire career in a conference (AFC West) with notoriously bad defenses; will his production translate against the big-boy defenses in the NFC?

2)  Colston
Positives
  - Real nice blend of size (6'4, 225), speed and hands; a very tough cover
  - No big character concerns
  - Has been very well coached in New Orleans and would bring a winners mentality into the locker room

Negatives
  - How much of his production has been attributable to the system, playing in a dome, and Drew Brees?
  - Has never really been a true #1 but a complementary piece to their other WRs and Jimmie Graham;  are we looking at an Alvin Harper here? 

3) Vincent Jackson
Positives
  - Game changing size (6'5, 230) and speed; he has the physical tools to take over a game and demands double teams, especially in the red zone

Negatives
  - He has two DUIs and if he messes up again he is facing serious legal repurcussions not to mention a big-time suspension from the league;  if Emery is as big on character as I suspect, this factor alone may take VJ off the list
  - Has never had a season with double-digit TDs
  - Reputed to be a bit of an odd duck personality wise (much like Cutler)
  - Same questions as Bowe re level of competition
  - Has played on teams that have chronically underachieved...  is that the kind of background you want to bring in?

4 DeShaun Jackson
Positives
   - Blazing speed
   - Return threat
   - A logical replacement for Johnny Knox if his career is over

Negatives
   - Extremely small (5'10, 175). As a returner, basically a skinnier Johnny Knox.  As a WR, really wouldn't bring us anything we don't already have with Hester
   - Character/ego concerns; ran his mouth a lot before last season regarding his contract
   - Coming off a sub-par year (only 4 TDs) with a team that underachieved badly and had a ton of on- and off-field dysfunction
   - Is probably going to expect a far bigger contract than justified by his "specialist" skill set and the fact that his tiny frame will probably mean a shorter than average career;  I see a Bernard Berrian situation big-time when I look at this guy
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 09, 2012, 01:19:17 pm
I thought the issue with Colston was either drops or injury? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 09, 2012, 01:44:52 pm
Depends on the amount of money but Vincent Jackson seems like the guy you want
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 09, 2012, 02:14:41 pm
Personally I think a Cutler to VJ hook-up could be magical... and could put to rest our red zone woes that have plagued this team forever.

Those DUIs on VJ's record loom large though.  I don't know if this is true but I read somewhere that if VJ gets in trouble again it's an automatic full-season suspension.  That's a big risk for a team to take, especially a team like the Bears who are weak in leadership both among the players and on the sidelines. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 09, 2012, 05:33:12 pm
Lotsa talk about FA WRs and rightfully so, but PFT points out the list of CBs who may hit the open market:

Stanford Routt (cut today by the Raiders)
Cortland Finnegan
Brent Grimes
Brandon Carr
Tracy Porter
Carlos Rogers
Terrell Thomas
Eric Wright
Aaron Ross

At least a couple of those guys are likely to get tagged and/or re-signed to their current teams, but still.  Pretty much any of them would be an instant upgrade over Tim Jennings at the #2, it's just a question of how much we want to spend, and if they're willing to play in our scheme (which doesn't give CBs a lot of highlight reel opportunities).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 09, 2012, 05:53:25 pm
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d826c5cf8/article/bears-chargers-panthers-could-be-next-seasons-giants?module=HP11_content_stream
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 10, 2012, 08:24:38 am
Interesting article.

I still think a lot of the "experts" are continuing to assume our defense is better than it actually is, though.

I think we're gonna need to average about 30 points a game this upcoming season to be a legit playoff contender. We've got an outdated scheme with well-known inherent flaws. Marinelli as a DC is average at best, and we have some decent players but not enough guys that come up with game-changing plays or key stops when they have to.  On top of which, Peppers and Urlacher are both dealing with knee issues, Briggs isn't happy with his contract and there are a lot of questions (health- and performance-wise) surrounding 3/4 of our D-Backfield (Conte, Wright and Jennings). And with the needs we have at WR and the OL, I think our chances of adding any impact players to the D this offseason are slim at best. 

I see our D being very middle-of-the-pack this year -- far from the elite defensive units like the Giants, Niners or Ravens -- so our O will need to improve accordingly to cover for them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 10, 2012, 10:54:51 am
Blurb about Colston from Don Banks (Sports Illustrated) who thinks he's one of the prizes of FA:

Saints receiver Marques Colston has been the model of steady production and consistency since entering the league as a lowly seventh-round pick in 2006. In five of his six NFL seasons, he has caught 70 passes or more, for at least 1,000 yards receiving and seven touchdowns. In 86 career games, he has 449 receptions, for 6,240 yards, with 48 touchdowns and a solid 13.9-yard average catch.

Colston isn't just a product of New Orleans' high-powered passing attack, and while he has gotten the benefit of playing his entire career with Brees, he'll prosper almost anywhere he lands if the Saints can't afford to re-sign him. New Orleans also has Brees, guard Carl Nicks and wideout Robert Meachem eligible for free agency. Colston's blend of height, hands and the ability to find the crease in the defense make him one of the best receiving options to come available in free agency in a long time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 10, 2012, 01:51:20 pm
Bleacher Report article speculating on the fate of the Bears FAs:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1060750-2012-nfl-free-agency-predicting-who-from-the-bears-will-stay-and-who-will-go
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on February 10, 2012, 08:41:37 pm

 Whats in store for our CHICAGO BEARS?

 When it comes to dancing ... Our BEARS will be tap dancing, on thugs skulls.

 Stanford junior offensive tackle Jonathan Martin said he will enter the 2012 NFL Draft.

"I have decided to forgo my final year of eligibility and enter the NFL draft," Martin tweeted. "Thank you to everyone who has loved and supported me."

Martin is the No. 3-rated offensive tackle eligible for April's draft,

Behind only fellow juniors Matt Kalil from Southern California and Iowa's Riley Reiff.

At 6-feet-6 and 305 pounds, Martin is known for his athleticism and considered a good fit for a zone-blocking scheme.

He was quarterback Andrew Luck's blind-side protector and has the skills to remain on the left side in the NFL.

Luck and guard David DeCastro announced before the Fiesta Bowl that they intend to leave the Cardinal a year early for the NFL as well.

Now we get into the meat and potaos of THE CHICAGO BEARS ...

and we dont know where the fuuck this is going yet.

THE QUESTION : Is Emery a trade up or trade down kind of guy?  (http://Stanford junior offensive tackle Jonathan Martin said he will enter the 2012 NFL Draft.

"I have decided to forgo my final year of eligibility and enter the NFL draft," Martin tweeted. "Thank you to everyone who has loved and supported me."

Martin is the No. 3-rated offensive tackle eligible for April's draft,

Behind only fellow juniors Matt Kalil from Southern California and Iowa's Riley Reiff.

At 6-feet-6 and 305 pounds, Martin is known for his athleticism and considered a good fit for a zone-blocking scheme.

He was quarterback Andrew Luck's blind-side protector and has the skills to remain on the left side in the NFL.

Luck and guard David DeCastro announced before the Fiesta Bowl that they intend to leave the Cardinal a year early for the NFL as well.

Now we get into the meat and potaos of THE CHICAGO BEARS ...

and we dont know where the fuuck this is going yet.

THE QUESTION : Is Emery a trade up or trade down kind of guy?)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 11, 2012, 02:21:23 pm
From the Bleacher report that Yaps posted, I love this evaluation of Stelz...

Craig Steltz, S

Steltz had a fine year last season in the Bears' defensive backfield when he got a chance to start. Steltz is a great player to be a back up, but he's not the worst guy to plug into the starting role either. He was on a pace last year to post 100 tackles if he had played the entire season. Obviously that doesn't necessarily mean he's a great safety because Charlie Peprah had 94 tackles last season in 15 games for the Packers, and Peprah sucks. However, Steltz still played a solid safety for the Bears and should be brought back.

The line about Peprah is classic...  Stelz is a very solid safety that will be a good third safety or plug in starter.  Perhaps with a better cast around, he would be very serviceable
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 11, 2012, 02:21:37 pm
I dont see this as bad at all:

Tim Bream, who has been a trainer with the Chicago Bears for 19 years, is leaving the team to join his alma mater Penn State, according to the Bears.

Bream, a native of Gettysburg, Pa., and an alumnus of Penn State, is scheduled to start Wednesday.

“I know him through NFL circles and through some people here at Penn State,” Penn State football coach Bill O’Brien, former the offensive coordinator of the Patriots, told pennstate.247sports.com.  “He comes highly recommended and we're really excited about having him on board.”

The Bears are in the process of trying to find a replacement.

Bream has been head athletic trainer with the Bears for 15 years.  He initially joined the training staff as an assistant to Fred Caito. He previously was a trainer at Syracuse, Vanderbilt and Richmond.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 11, 2012, 07:33:02 pm
Maybe the move was mutual. Maybe he got in trouble because he couldnt put Forte and Cutler back together fast enough for Bear management.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 11, 2012, 07:54:41 pm
After i read this I dont expect the Bears to trade for Brendan Marshall, cause its so un-Bearish. The Bears (reportedly) are 20 Mill under the cap. If they sign Forte for 8 that leaves 12 left for FA acquisitions and rookie draft picks. Marshall just doesnt fit.

Marshall, who will turn 28 on March 23, has three years left on a five-year, $47.3 million contract he signed in 2010. His contract calls for him to make $9.3 million next season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 11:37:34 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRMfMPNQffE&feature=colike

This what a franchise QB looks like.  Now imagine if he had time to throw and WR's that could consistently get open...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 12, 2012, 12:23:48 pm
Wow that was great.  But it just shows you how badly we need WRs and OL help.  Can you imagine how great Cutler would be all the time?  And it also makes me want football to hurry up and get here.  ;(
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on February 12, 2012, 01:06:33 pm
Imagine him having the ability to call audibles now?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 12, 2012, 01:28:56 pm
I havent heard that
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 02:04:04 pm
Right!  Martz did not allow audibles.  Tice will.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 12, 2012, 02:53:29 pm
Along with rolling out of the pocket and throwing on the run.  If we can get some WRs that can hold on to the ball, and the OL can hold up, this could be a real fun season. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 12, 2012, 04:16:42 pm
the 46 is giving the Bears bandwagon a complete going over.  Little used since 1985, 46 has added tubochargers, and given it a lube job.  Hopefully it will see use this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 12, 2012, 05:15:55 pm
the 46 is giving the Bears bandwagon a complete going over.  Little used since 1985, 46 has added tubochargers, and given it a lube job.  Hopefully it will see use this year.

46 what are you using to lube that band wagon?  LOL 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 12, 2012, 05:17:08 pm
Right!  Martz did not allow audibles.  Tice will.

I havent heard that Tice will allow Cuttler that option. Link please!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 05:20:26 pm
That is the first time I have heard it called "lubing the bandwagon"...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 07:00:24 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/index.asp?mm_file_id=2855

This does not speak of audibles but is a good interview.  I am guessing you will all like what you hear.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 07:02:41 pm
http://chi.scout.com/2/1153050.html

And so it was in his first interview since being promoted to OC a few weeks ago. Chicago Tribune’s Brad Biggs spoke with Tice this week about his vision for the Bears’ offense. Unlike Martz, who was a control freak of epic proportions, Tice will allow quarterback Jay Cutler much more freedom to take control of the offense on the field.

“I am tailoring what I am doing to what I've done, which is common sense," Tice told the Tribune. “Why run it when they have one more guy than you can block? Why not throw it when you have free access and you have a guy who can beat single coverage?

“To do that you have to have the ability to check at the line of scrimmage, you have to have the ability to have a short passing game. And then I'm a no-huddle guy and we don't have no huddle. … I want to be
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 07:12:45 pm
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-01-25/sports/ct-spt-0126-offense-bears-chicago--20120126_1_mike-tice-huddle-broncos-defensive-coordinator

Another good article.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 07:42:09 pm
Looks like Reggie Wayne is going to be a free agent.  He would help the Bears immediately.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 12, 2012, 09:16:29 pm
I've read that stuff before but nowhere does it say Tice will give Cuttler the ability to audibalize.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 09:20:49 pm
Check at the line of scrimmage means he is able to switch from a run to a pass or vice versa which imo is an audible.  Also how do you run a no huddle offense with no audibles?  It is not possible unless you have a scripted series.

Tice says he wants to be able to run a no huddle offense to change things up.  This is definately a change from what they have been doing. 

Cutler will not be calling the plays but he obviously is going to be able to change plays at the line of scrimmage if he does not like what he sees.  To me that is the definition of an audible.

Do you disagree?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 12, 2012, 09:25:31 pm
You guys get ready for the upcoming season your way, I get ready my way.  Everything needs a lube jobe everyonce in awhile.  Even at my age, I know I do.  Perks you right up it does.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 12, 2012, 09:36:07 pm
Just don't lube the bandwagon more then twice a day or it will become raw.  No one likes a raw bandwagon!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 13, 2012, 07:54:44 am
Check at the line of scrimmage means he is able to switch from a run to a pass or vice versa which imo is an audible.  Also how do you run a no huddle offense with no audibles?  It is not possible unless you have a scripted series.

Tice says he wants to be able to run a no huddle offense to change things up.  This is definately a change from what they have been doing. 

Cutler will not be calling the plays but he obviously is going to be able to change plays at the line of scrimmage if he does not like what he sees.  To me that is the definition of an audible.

Do you disagree?

Usually a no huddle offense tends to be scripted. But I will say that we need to be less predictable and we need to end the time outs because the plays dont come in from the play booth. That will be a refreshing change.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 08:09:54 am
Holy cow guys...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/13/report-wife-of-tommie-harris-dies-at-29/

Man...  and with young children.  Tommie's got a tough row to hoe ahead of him.  I wouldn't be surprised if he hangs up the cleats for good after something like this.

Prayers going up for the strength do right by those young 'uns.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 09:14:16 am
Uh-oh...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/13/randy-moss-says-hes-coming-back/

Don't do it Emery, don't do it...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 13, 2012, 10:13:06 am
The radio shows down here said not only would he not go across the middle, he did not block down field.  What he did do very well is cash his massive paycheck on a regular basis.  The other NE reject didn't work so well for the bear, so why try another?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 13, 2012, 10:24:31 am
Yes, but Moss did work very well for Tice.  Just saying.  Then again Roy Williams worked well for Martz.  I think pass.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 10:47:16 am
Yes, but Moss did work very well for Tice.  Just saying. 

Yeah that crossed my mind too.  The scary thing is that Moss could come in off the street and probably be the best WR on the Bears roster right now.

The last time we brought in a future HOF'er was Orlando Pace and that didn't work out so well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on February 13, 2012, 11:09:44 am
depends on the salary demands.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 11:14:58 am
I think the Roy Williams fiasco should have been about enough to put the Bears off any further over-the-hill reclamation projects.  Even at a bargain basement price.

But you never know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 13, 2012, 12:36:15 pm
I heard Mario Maningham will be available too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 12:38:25 pm
If Manningham goes to FA he will probably get overpaid based on his SuperBowl performance.  See also Larry Brown.

I don't really see Manningham bringing us anything we don't already have with Earl Bennett. He's a guy that would be nice to have on the team, but certainly not the answer as #1 nor should he be paid like one.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 13, 2012, 12:42:28 pm
I agree about Maningham being overpaid. I expect Vincent Jackson to be overpaid too. And Brandon Marshall is already overpaid and out of the Bears price range. He'd have to agree to rework his contract to even interest me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 13, 2012, 12:45:48 pm
Has anybody heard anything about Peppers's knees? They certainly need some attention this off season
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on February 13, 2012, 12:50:42 pm
Of the FA WR's, I would be most interested in Colston or Meacham from Da Saints.  I've read things about Jackson and Bowe that make me think twice about those obvious choices.  If Lovie is flying anywhere to knock on a door at midnight the first day of Free Agency, I am thinking he should be in New Orleans, with Jay-Cut and Bates waiting in the SUV. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 13, 2012, 12:53:08 pm
I'm in the Vincent Jackson camp.

He's the best available out there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on February 13, 2012, 12:55:47 pm
Phill gets one right.

Jackson is the man.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 13, 2012, 01:01:55 pm
Depending on the price tag I agree. Jackson would be my first choice. We certainly have the QB to get him the ball.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 13, 2012, 01:02:47 pm
Phill gets one right.

ONE????  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 01:05:01 pm
Has anybody heard anything about Peppers's knees? They certainly need some attention this off season

Knowing how the Bears medical staff rolls, they're probably telling him everything's fine and then 4 weeks before training camp it will come out that he needs surgery and 2 months recoup time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 01:06:44 pm
If PFT is right, then DeSean Jackson is probably getting franchised.

Not that I think he would have been a prime target of the Bears anyway, but it may up the ante for landing the other guys who are available.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 13, 2012, 01:52:50 pm
I think Tim Bream told Peppers to rub some dirt on his knees and they would be ok.  He didnt leave soon enough. ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 02:10:56 pm
Agreed 100%.  The loss of Bream is no loss at all and in fact the entire Bears training and medical staff can be put out to pasture as far as I'm concerned.

With Emery's background I'm pretty sure he can fill Bream's position with an upgrade quite easily.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 13, 2012, 02:25:05 pm
My guess before was Bream was about to be let go when he voluntarily agreed to leave
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 13, 2012, 03:56:42 pm
My thoughts as well. Penn State is pure career poison right now, and you don't drop down out of the nfl without reason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 04:07:39 pm
Oops...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-jt-thomas-arrested-on-misdemeanor-drug-charge-20120213,0,3684995.story

Probably not the best career move when you're a 2nd year late-round draft pick hanging on by a thread with a new personnel boss settling in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 13, 2012, 04:23:15 pm
Some people just make it easy for supervisors to make decisions.  Late round pick. Drugs. Injuries. Picked by the Jer.  I hear that name being erased off the board.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 13, 2012, 04:38:26 pm
Oops...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-jt-thomas-arrested-on-misdemeanor-drug-charge-20120213,0,3684995.story

Probably not the best career move when you're a 2nd year late-round draft pick hanging on by a thread with a new personnel boss settling in.

I agree if the car was registered to him. Now if its a family vehicle then I question how it got there. Also who had access to the vehicle? Brother/sister? Just too many unanswered questions to play pin the tail on the druggie. Definitely an eye opener.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 13, 2012, 05:06:48 pm
Isn't that the guy who got nationwide positive press for taking the disabled girl to her prom last year?

Seems like a good kid but not very bright... or at the best, made a bad choice... and that could wind up costing him big-time.  These are the kinds of fringe players that incoming GM's love to make examples of cause they're guys you can launch without costing the owners a lot of money or affecting the team's performance on the field.

Emery will cut him and then spend our 5th or 6th round draft pick on his replacement.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 13, 2012, 06:31:45 pm
Not sure of that. Perhaps he takes a wait and see attitude and looks at the eidence as it evolves. However a draft pick that low with a history of back trouble is an easy decision to cut
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 14, 2012, 09:32:26 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/14/tommie-harris-overwhelmed-by-support/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 14, 2012, 03:06:10 pm
A Second NFL Team Could Be Chicago’s ‘Super’ Solution

Dave Wischnowsky/CBS Chicago
February 13, 2012 9:12 AM


By playing host to the spectacle that was Super Bowl XLVI, the city of Indianapolis pumped perhaps as much as $400 million into its local economy, basked in the glory of national media attention and reveled in the giddiness of a week-long, star-studded party.

Meanwhile, up here in Chicago, we twiddled our thumbs and watched on TV as Indianapolis hosted Super Bowl XLVI, pumped perhaps as much as $400 million into its local economy, basked in the glory of national media attention and reveled in the giddiness of a week-long, star-studded party.

Sigh…

On the day of the big game, Chicago Tribune business columnist Phil Rosenthal reported from Indy how residents of the Windy City “know what’s been going on just three hours away by car here in Indiana’s capital, home to Sunday’s Super Bowl XLVI, so close, so valuable and yet so out of reach to Chicago for so many reasons.”

Reasons such as Chicago’s brain trust deciding a decade ago to foolishly build the NFL’s smallest stadium (capacity: 61,500) in the NFL’s second largest market (9.46 million metro area population).

And reasons such as the city’s failure to equip said stadium with a retractable roof, despite its location along a bitterly cold Midwestern lakefront.

And also how that pesky detail renders Chicago’s largest event facility essentially useless during the winter and spring months when other towns are using their covered NFL arenas to host such financial bonanzas as Super Bowls (Indy), Final Fours (New Orleans this year and Indy numerous times in the past) and Big Ten Football Championship Games (Indy again).

You can guarantee that if Indianapolis was awarded a Super Bowl and, jeez, Detroit was awarded a Super Bowl, Chicago – the Midwest’s biggest and best city – would absolutely be awarded one.

You know, if it could realistically be awarded one.

Chicago can’t host the Super Bowl – or any other revenue-generating cold-weather extravaganza – because it’s locked in to the logistical boondoggle that is Soldier Field and the financial fiasco of its bond payments through 2032.

The reality is, there’s no fixing the Soldier Field situation for Chicago. Not any time soon. But what if that didn’t matter and there was a work-around option that gave Chicago a legitimate excuse to build a new retractable-roof facility that’s suited to host Super Bowls, Final Fours and any other coveted wintertime event?

What if there was an option that, while extremely complicated, may offer a shockingly simple solution to the city’s stadium woes?

What if – and brace yourself, Bears fans – Chicago recruited a second NFL franchise?

Now, before you blow a gasket over that idea, first ponder these details: On the Thursday night before the Super Bowl, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell talked shop with Bob Costas on NBC Sports Network and said that if the NFL puts a team back in Los Angeles, it’s likely that the league would expand to 34 franchises.

“We probably don’t want to go to 33,” Goodell told Costas, while explaining that he also doesn’t want to move an existing team to L.A. from another city.

The next day, during his annual pre-Super Bowl news conference, Goodell backtracked and claimed that the NFL has not considered expansion, nor does it have immediate plans to do so. But don’t believe that. If the league wasn’t considering it, he wouldn’t have discussed it just the day before.

“We would like to be back in Los Angeles if we can do it correctly,” Goodell admitted, explaining that there are several issues that must be resolved with L.A., most significantly which of the city’s two current stadium proposals is best.

Goodell didn’t name any timetable for the NFL making its return to Southern California, nor did he address the curious speculation that has recently swirled about how L.A.’s new stadium could actually house not one, but two NFL expansion franchises.

Now, considering how both the Rams and Raiders have fled L.A., I find that idea preposterous. Los Angeles barely needs – or wants – one NFL team. It certainly doesn’t deserve to have two.

But does Chicago?

What if instead of giving two franchises to the nation’s second largest media market (L.A.), which doesn’t seem to much care about pro football, the NFL put a second franchise in the nation’s third largest media market (Chicago), which lives and breathes the sport?

Now, of course, the immediate question among Chicagoans is if there is a crying demand in Chicago for a second NFL team. I’d say, clearly there isn’t. Fans might be frustrated with Bears management and ownership, but the team itself is beloved. However, the pressure applied by a second team might whip the Bears’ brass into shape.

Beyond all that, though, the more pressing issue is, could Chicago actually support a second franchise? And I suspect that over time, yes, it probably could.

After all, once upon a time – and for a long time – the city did have two NFL teams, you know. From 1920 to 1959, the Chicago Cardinals called the Windy City home, playing their games on the South Side, primarily at Comiskey Park, while the Bears tore up the turf at Wrigley Field on the North Side.

You know, just like the city’s two baseball teams.

In an editorial published in the Chicago Tribune on Feb. 3 and entitled, “A Chicago Super Bowl! Oh … wait … sorry …,” the newspaper recounted how in 2001, the Landmarks Preservation Council of Illinois – in the hopes of protecting Soldier Field from desecration – proposed the construction of an 80,000-seat domed stadium on 23 acres of public land across 35th Street from what’s now U.S. Cellular Field. If that had been done, the Bears would have effectively become a “South Side” team that was embraced by the entire city.

Chicago has already proven that its territorial passions are diverse and powerful enough to support two Major League Baseball teams (admittedly, one of them better than the other).

So, my question is what if the city was to play off that regional pride and found a location similar to the 35th Street site for a new state-of-the-art, multi-purpose indoor facility? Over time – perhaps a entire generation – I could imagine that ultimately leading to a second NFL franchise being embraced as the city’s “South Side” team.

Now, I write about sports, not business. So, I have no clever suggestions on how any such new facility could be paid for by Chicago, especially without further burdening taxpayers who are already on the hook for the next 20 years on any shortfalls on Soldier Field’s interest payments.

But I do know this, if Goodell would seriously consider putting two teams in L.A., I have to imagine that he’d have some interest in instead putting two in Chicago. And I’m quite certain that Chicago would love to host the lucrative sporting events that an enclosed football arena would surely attract.

Earlier this month, BleacherNation.com proposed a handful options for placing an NFL expansion team. Besides L.A., the website suggested Toronto, San Antonio, Oklahoma City and Portland.

All fine cities, but I’m not sure that any of them would have the same passion for pro football that Chicago already enjoys. Nor do I think they have a need a retractable-roof facility in the same ways that the Windy City does.

Now, you can go ahead and call my second-NFL-team-in-Chicago idea crazy, if you like. But it just might be crazy like a fox.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 14, 2012, 03:17:27 pm
That would be so cool...  the McCaskey boys would sh*t their $50 boxers if a 2nd NFL team actually set up shop in Chicago...  and with a better stadium, no less. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on February 14, 2012, 04:02:58 pm
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/randy_moss_5_teams_that_could_take_a_chance/9899965

Don't know who this guy is but he's calling for the Bears to pick up Moss AND Owens.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 14, 2012, 04:06:33 pm
Don't know who this guy is but he's calling for the Bears to pick up Moss AND Owens.

We would be the laughingstock of the entire league if we did that.  And Emery would lose whatever credibility he may have come in here with.

Yeah, Roy Williams worked out great last year so let's do that again, only double, and with guys who are even older than RoyBoy.   ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 14, 2012, 04:31:44 pm
what has four legs no speed no hands and wants alot of money?  You guessed it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on February 14, 2012, 04:32:28 pm
The difference is...Moss and Owens were both 10x better than Roy Williams every dreamed of being...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 14, 2012, 04:49:28 pm
Sign Vincent Jackson and draft Michael Floyd.

There's your Moss and Owens, minus the mileage and much of the baggage.

How anyone could even think Moss and T.O. could co-exist on the same team is beyond me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 14, 2012, 08:36:27 pm
Yep. Most of us knew from the get-go that hiring Roy was a complete joke. Why we knew that and the Bears 'braintrust' didn't, well that's one for future Bears fans to ponder. Owens and Moss would be lights out different immediately. Better than anything we've had in probably a decade even though they've sat out awhile. Mix in a draftee at the spot and we'd have one helluva recieving corps. Well, better than anything WE'VE seen.....anyway....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 14, 2012, 10:58:23 pm
Sign Vincent Jackson and draft Michael Floyd.

There's your Moss and Owens, minus the mileage and much of the baggage.

How anyone could even think Moss and T.O. could co-exist on the same team is beyond me.

I could agree with that if they found a decent LOT who is a FA, but I just dont see that happening
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 15, 2012, 05:55:01 am
I know we have need for another OT, but the line sure looked okay when Cutler wasn't on the bench - basically after Cutler took control of the offense and told Martz to keep the 7 step drops off the field.  If it weren't for that freak injury that wasn't the result of the line, who knows where our season would have gone?

Receivers are needed.  God bless Johnny Knox, I love him as a player and he was a good soldier not opening his mouth when Roy was wrongly annointed the starter.  He was our version of Desean without the diva.  But, his slip caused Cutler's thumb and his fumble caused his broken back.  Errors that he committed had utterly dire consequences in hindsight.  I'd love to have him back, but I pray he is smart and only plays if he can not risk paralysis.  While lightning can strike twice, the chance of being bent in half backwards are not likely.  Put a check box next two yapper's idea of signing Vincent jackson (or trading for Marshall), and drafting Floyd.  That is the priority over tackle in my opinion on the offensive side.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 15, 2012, 07:49:27 am
GB, forget Brandon Marshall. That guy alone is scheduled to make 9+ Mill this coming season. Unless his contract is voided the Bears arent trading for that contract. If true as reported that the Bears are 20 Mill under the cap and they franchise Forte for 8 that leaves 12. So they are going to pay Marshall 9 of that 12? I dont think so. Definitely doesnt fit the Bears modus operandi. A snowball has a better opportunity of surviving in hell than that has a chance of happening. Then add in the cost of trading for Marshall, like maybe a draft pick or two.......
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 15, 2012, 08:03:17 am
Grizz, excellent point on Johnny Knox.  His injury really blew up a lot of things for us as far as this offseason.

Whereas before we might have been able to get by upgrading only the #1 WR position, now we have to get a real #1 and most likely replace Knox. I.e., two quality WRs, likely a big-money FA acquisition and a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. Which may mean a LT upgrade gets lost in the sauce, at least this offseason. 

Maybe Tice's scheme can hide J'Marcus but against Jared Allen in the season finale he looked flat-out awful.  I read somewhere where somebody ranked all the OTs in the league and Webb was down in the 60s somewhere.  Considering there are only 64 starting OTs in the entire league, that's pretty damn bad.  I know Tice has much love for Webb but I have a feeling Emery may not share the same opinion so that could be an interesting conversation between those two at some point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 15, 2012, 08:28:53 am
But something has to be done about LOT. You cant continue to stonewall it like Angelo did. Thats why Angelo was canned. Emery has to do something. Maybe this guy in Beefalo Demetruis Bell could be serviceable enough and come cheaply enough so we can get a good WR. I kinda expect Emery who came from KC will use his relationship there to get Bowe to come here.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 15, 2012, 08:44:01 am
Demetrius Bell and Bowe in FA, plus Michael Floyd in the 1st round, wouldn't upset me at all though I'm not sure Bowe is the best we could do if Colston and Vincent Jackson were also available.

I have also seen a couple of mocks with Kendall Wright from Baylor going to us in the 1st round.  I have some reservations about Wright's size (he is really no bigger than Devin Hester and won't help us in the red zone at all) and the fact that he benefited from a ridiculously talented QB and playing against less than stellar Big XII defenses in warm-weather environments.  But, he is very highly rated coming out, his production at Baylor was amazing and if we need to replace Knox and (most importantly) we can bring a big WR into the fold via FA, he's not the worst we could do. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 15, 2012, 10:25:34 am
  God bless Johnny Knox, I love him as a player and he was a good soldier not opening his mouth when Roy was wrongly annointed the starter.  He was our version of Desean without the diva.  But, his slip caused Cutler's thumb and his fumble caused his broken back.  Errors that he committed had utterly dire consequences in hindsight. 

Buddy I don't believe you're blaming Knox for J-Cut's injury.  He slipped as if no one else doesn't slip on that turf at Soldier Field.  Hell I think anybody could've slipped.  I don't call that an error on Knox's part.  How could he not slip if that was a bad part of the field?  It was just bad luck.

But I agree the team does need a couple receivers with Knox probably retiring and Williams not coming back.  It makes for an intriguing off season!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on February 15, 2012, 10:42:58 am
Cutler's injury was on Cutler. A QB shouldn't be diving to make a tackle. There's a reason QB's are told to slide or run out of bounds. I understand his wanting to make the play but there are times you should be worrying about 'living to play another day".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 15, 2012, 09:38:13 pm
Demetrius Bell and Bowe in FA, plus Michael Floyd in the 1st round, wouldn't upset me at all though I'm not sure Bowe is the best we could do if Colston and Vincent Jackson were also available.

Sure if money were no issue I'd go for Vincent Jackson or Colston. But as I've stated, money IS an issue. If you franchise Forte or sign him longterm at a somewhat similar amount, thats not enough left to pay a 10 Mill WR and sign maybe a FA LOT and maybe a FA CB. I am well aware Bell and Bowe arent the best options at their positions, but they might be cheap enough and adequate enough to give us the opportunity to sign other needs as well as our draft picks. We should get a good idea how the draft will shake out by seeing who Emery targets and signs in FA.

If I had my druthers I'd sign the best at our positions of need regardless of the cost. I seriously doubt our ability to afford to sign the best WR available. Now maybe I am underestimating how badly Colston or V Jackson want to come here. Maybe their monetary demands will be lower than I think. Right now I just dont know.

But I do know that it will be a buyers market and I expect the competition to be intense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 16, 2012, 04:39:52 am
Your right, I was a bit harsh on Knox causing the Cutler injury, I guess my point was that without the slip there is no int.  No int, no Cutler making a tackle.  Keys is right, better to be like Peyton Manning and fein a little effort at making a tackle, then to break your hand and lose your season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on February 16, 2012, 05:25:12 am
Griz is right. FACT is, if Knox catches the ball, there is no int which resulted in the Cutler injury. Cutler's a football player, he's trying to win a game. True that Knox slipped, so it is what it is. We'll miss his speed, and he was decent on kickoff returns. His route's weren't the best, but he was getting better. None the less, we need a couple of top notch receivers, period!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 16, 2012, 07:50:36 am
Here's a very interesting Q&A I pulled from the Pompeii Mailbag article in today's Trib:

Q: It seems unbelievably quiet at Halas Hall since Phil Emery's news conference. Do we have any sense for how his role and authority is developing compared to general managers like Ted Thompson, moves he's considering on his staff, the timing of selecting directors of pro and college personnel now that Tim Ruskell is gone, etc.? I'm open-minded at this point but the silence seems strange. Surely they don't think all that needed to be changed was the GM. Phil, Chicago

A: You are right about Halas Hall being very quiet since Emery's news conference. This is by design. Get used to it. The Bears have gone into lock-down mode in terms of dealing with the media and public. We have been told Emery will not speak at the scouting combine, though the large majority of NFL general managers do, and Jerry Angelo always did. We also have been told all other members of the front office and assistant coaches are now off limits to reporters all offseason. This is a new policy. The Bears don't want us to know what they are doing or thinking because they believe it puts them at a competitive disadvantage. In my opinion, it is part of a decades-old NFL tradition of unreasonable paranoia. I can tell you Emery's plan was to wait until after the draft to make any staff additions or changes.[/i]
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 16, 2012, 08:09:30 am
Here is an interesting article about FA WRs I pulled up. I cant necessarily agree with that list, but we seem focused on getting a tall WR who can go up and get the ball in traffic. This list rates all WRs

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/16/ranking-the-2012-free-agents-wide-receivers/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 16, 2012, 08:35:02 am
we seem focused on getting a tall WR who can go up and get the ball in traffic.

Definitely. Assuming RoyBoy gets cut, the biggest WR on our roster would be Earl Bennett at 6' even.  That's just not gonna get it done. We need one (or ideally two) bigger targets and that becomes even more critical if we can't get a better LT cause Cutler's gonna need guys he can find in a hurry.  Small speedy guys will still be available well into the draft, probably down into the 3rd round.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 17, 2012, 07:29:02 am
Here is some good news from George McCaskey in the Trib:

“The bottom line, and Phil knows this, if there is someone we want -- and it makes sense -- money is not going to be an issue,” Bears Chairman George McCaskey said Wednesday after a concussion symposium for high school coaches and athletes at Halas Hall.

It remains to be seen how the free-agent market is going to shape up. Teams still have plenty of time to re-sign their own players and the franchise tag goes into play beginning Monday for a 15-day period.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-mccaskey-money-wont-be-issue-in-free-agency-20120216,0,5936632.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 17, 2012, 07:44:24 am
I think that even money notwithstanding, the Bears are gonna be a tough sell to the premium FAs.

Our pro's are: 

- An elite QB
- A HC who for reasons beyond me appears to be well respected by players throughout the league
- Top 5 training facilities
- A major market and national media center with the corresponding endorsement opportunities, etc.
- The most loyal fan base in the league

Our con's are:

- Outdoor team in a cold-weather location
- League's worst home field (playing surface)
- Undermanned team in an extremely tough division 
- A defense that is fading fast and getting old, further hindered by an obsolete scheme and a DC who is out of his depth
- Bad in-house medical staff

Thankfully at least, Angelo is out of the picture as a potential "con"
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 17, 2012, 09:53:05 am
Just fantasizing, and I know it is a pipe dream, but could you imagine if we could score Mario Williams to pair with Peppers, then draft an OT in the first, and a big WR in the second.  Pick up a #2 WR in FA, and sign Forte long term.  In the 3rd pick up a CB and OG.  4th LB or S. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 17, 2012, 10:07:26 am
Just fantasizing, and I know it is a pipe dream, but could you imagine if we could score Mario Williams to pair with Peppers, then draft an OT in the first, and a big WR in the second.  Pick up a #2 WR in FA, and sign Forte long term.  In the 3rd pick up a CB and OG. 

The only problem with that scenario is it still leaves us without a true game-changing, double-team drawing, #1 WR.  So maybe our 2nd round WR is Nick Toon or that kid from Appalachain State and our FA pickup is Mario Manningham, but that still basically has us running WR-by-committee with the difference being the members of the "committee" are upgrades from RoyBoy and Hester.  It worked for the Giants, but not so sure it could work for us.

I'm not sure I'd be on-board with allocating the bulk of our FA money to a DE vs. WR.  People need to realize that the days of the Bears being carried by their D are gone.  They had the opportunity to do that after Cutler went down, and they failed.  For the first time in most of our lifetimes, the Chicago Bears have a bonafide franchise QB in a league where that has never been more important... so we need to prioritize our personnel acqusitions accordingly. 

That being said, if none of the premier FA WRs will come to the Bears for the price we're willing to pay, then your plan is a reasonable fallback strategy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 17, 2012, 10:40:32 am
I agree. I think that plan is high on the Bears agenda.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 18, 2012, 05:07:08 am
IF both players became available in FA, IF...  Mario Williams or Cliff Avril?  I'm thinkng Avril
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 18, 2012, 09:14:42 am
Williams is coming off an injury I think, but he is dominant when healthy.  Avril is disruptive. If we could get either it would be an improvment for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 18, 2012, 12:55:47 pm
Agreed and move Izzy inside
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 20, 2012, 10:38:14 am

Many Bears attend funeral for Tommie Harris’ wife

By SEAN JENSEN sjensen@suntimes.com February 17, 2012 8:44PM

Updated: February 18, 2012 12:15AM



In eight NFL seasons, Tommie Harris endeared himself to plenty of players and coaches, and many of them traveled to New Orleans in his time of need.
 
On Friday, Harris buried his wife, Ashley, who died on Sunday after being hospitalized because of a stroke or a brain aneurysm two days earlier.

“It was a celebration of an incredible life,” family friend Bill Horn said. “To see how many lives she touched in a short period of time was amazing, and the support he received from former coaches, ­teammates, family and friends speaks volumes about the ­character of Tommie Harris.”
 
Although the Bears released him before the 2011 season, many in the organization were on hand Friday, including coach Lovie Smith, linebacker Lance Briggs, running back Matt Forte, cornerback Charles Tillman and defensive linemen Anthony Adams, Israel Idonije, Amobi Okoye, Julius Peppers and Matt Toeaina. Former Bears Adewale Ogunleye, Nathan Vasher, Rashied Davis and Antonio Garay were in attendance.

Former Bears assistant coaches Don Johnson and Eric Washington were also on hand, along with ­current NFL players such as Minnesota Vikings ­running back Adrian Peterson, Arizona Cardinals ­receiver Larry Fitzgerald and Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive tackle Gerald McCoy.
 
No one went to greater lengths to get to the funeral than Fitzgerald. He was vacationing in South America, and he jetted back — including paying for a charter for one leg — to be there for Harris. Fitzgerald then returned to South America after the funeral.
 
Ashley Harris was 29, and she gave birth to the couple’s second child four months ago.
 
Former NFL player Miles McPherson, now the ­pastor at The Rock Church in San Diego, delivered the eulogy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 20, 2012, 10:50:39 am
From profootballfocus.com:

The Free Agents

That gives you the Top 5, with the soon to be available Demetrius Bell just outside in sixth after giving up one sack, one hit and seven hurries on the 237 occasions he was trying to keep Ryan Fitzpatrick clean. He leads all the available free agent tackles. The interesting thing to note is how some of the players who didn’t have the requisite number of snaps in pass protection came out, particularly Jared Gaither. In his time at San Diego, Gaither gave up just three pressures on 165 pass blocks which would have led the league, though you could say something similar about Anthony Collins of the Bengals. He spent 80 snaps in pass pro at tackle and gave up just the one hurry; a trend whenever Collins has seen the field in recent years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on February 20, 2012, 12:37:28 pm
Fitzgerald enjoying the Carnivale festivities?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 21, 2012, 06:08:41 pm
Ranking the 2012 Free Agents: Offensive Tackles

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/20/ranking-the-2012-free-agents-offensive-tackles/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 21, 2012, 07:42:08 pm
This is too good and imoortant not to post it here in its entirety from the Tribune

Breaking down Bears and the salary cap

By Brad Biggs, Tribune reporter
 
6:59 p.m. CST, February 21, 2012

The NFL shopping season begins three weeks from Tuesday when free agency opens on March 13.

The Chicago Bears will have the room to be as aggressive as they want in the marketplace but it remains to be seen how new general manager Phil Emery wants to handle business in what will be the first defining moves of his tenure.

Emery said at his introductory press conference that his vision is to build through the draft, not surprising considering his background as a college scouting director and area scout. That was long the approach of his predecessor Jerry Angelo before a string of bad drafts caught up to the organization and he was forced to fill many holes via free agency and other avenues.

The Bears, coming off an 8-8 season, are in a situation where they need to win now to enhance the future of coach Lovie Smith, who is signed through 2013. Team president Ted Phillips spoke about closing the talent gap between the Bears and division foes Green Bay and Detroit and free agency is the first vehicle that can be used to achieve that goal.

The Bears project to have more than $20 million in salary cap room. But by rolling over unused salary cap from 2011, the club can push that figure north of $25 million, far and away the most of any team in the division. One league source speculated it could be as much as $28 million. The exact figure is constantly in flux and remember room needs to be carved out for draft picks. The Bears are far from the reported $67 million in cap space the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have but as one general manager said last season it’s no longer the cap that defines the NFL but cash. It comes down to what teams want to budget for their players.

With that in mind, let’s take a look at what the Bears have right now in the way of salary cap figures for individual players for the coming season.

Here are the team’s top five cap figures for 2012, according to documents acquired by the Tribune:

1. DE Julius Peppers $12,183,333

2. LB Brian Urlacher $9,700,000

3. QB Jay Cutler $9,600,000

4. CB Charles Tillman $7,966,670

5. LB Lance Briggs $5,996,666

There are some notes to consider when looking at the Bears’ cap:

*For starters, Tillman’s number is so large because it includes $3 million is in the form of a special teams incentive he will not receive. It's considered a likely to be earned incentive which counts toward the 2012 cap, but would provide a cap credit for 2013. It fluffs the real value of the deal for an agent and builds in cap credits for the club. If the Bears really wanted to free even more space, they could remove the credit with a renegotiated deal.

*It’s not surprising that four of the top five players are on defense. That is where the Bears have typically invested most. The team has $15,696,666 committed to Pro Bowl linebackers Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs. That projects to be almost 13.1 percent of the non-adjusted cap for 2012, which is expected to come in around $120 million.

*The Bears are not carrying a lot of dead cap space. Tight end Brandon Manumaleuna, running back Chester Taylor and wide receiver Sam Hurd combine to count $3.1 million vs. the 2012 cap, really a small amount in the big picture.

*The bottom line is Emery is inherited an advantageous position from a cap standpoint. It’s the cap equivalent of a clean slate and he can do with it as he wants.

 

Here is a position-by-position look at the Bears’ cap figures.

Quarterback:

Jay Cutler $9,600,000

Nathan Enderle $507,215

*** Trevor Vittatoe $1,667

Total $10,108,882

 

Running back:

Armando Allen $390,000

Marion Barber $2,250,000

Harvey Unga $429,066

*** Chester Taylor $1,000,000

Total $4,069,066

 

Fullback:

Tyler Clutts $465,000

Total $465,000

 

Wide receiver:

Earl Bennett $1,600,000

Devin Hester $2,729,333

Johnny Knox $1,311,060

Max Komar $465,000

Dane Sanzenbacher $466,666

***Kris Adams $2,000

*** Andy Fantuz $5,000

*** Sam Hurd $900,000

*** Jimmy Young $1,334

Total $7,480,393

 

Tight end:

Kyle Adams $466,666

Draylen Ross $390,000

Andre Smith $465,000

Matt Spaeth $2,208,333

*** Brandon Manumaleuna $1,200,000

*** Andre Smith $3,334

Total $4,733,333

 

Offensive line:

Gabe Carimi $1,603,647

Roberto Garza $1,825,000

Ricky Henry $465,000

Levi Horn $465,000

Lance Louis $1,270,497

Frank Omiyale $2,800,000

Chris Spencer $4,250,000

Reggie Stephens $465,000

J’Marcus Webb $505,150

Chris Williams $2,507,750

Edwin Williams $700,000

Mansfield Wrotto $700,000

***J.C. Brignone$2,667

*** Josh Davis $2,000

*** Ricky Henry $1,334

*** Alex Linnenkohl $1,667

Total $17,564,712

 

Defensive end:

Chauncey Davis $825,000

Thaddeus Gibson $465,000

Julius Peppers $12,183,333

Corey Wootton $616,793

*** Mario Addison $2,334

Total $14,092,460

 

Defensive tackle:

Anthony Adams $2,750,000

Henry Melton $692,808

Jordan Miller $390,000

Stephen Paea $837,705

Matt Toeaina $1,480,000

*** Jordan Miller $2,000

Total $6,152,513

 

Linebacker:

Lance Briggs $5,996,666

Dom DeCicco $465,666

Nick Roach $2,815,000

J.T. Thomas$413,129

Patrick Trahan $465,000

Brian Urlacher $9,700,000

Jabara Williams $465,000

Total $20,320,461

 

Cornerback:

D.J. Moore$681,689

Charles Tillman $7,966,670

Donovan Warren $390,000

*** Antareis Bryan $667

*** Ryan Jones $1,334

*** Joshua Moore $99,000

Total $9,169,360

 

Safety:

Chris Conte $608,400

Winston Venable $465,000

Anthony Walters $465,000

Major Wright $659,825

*** Winston Venable $1,334

*** Anthony Walters $3,334

Total $2,202,893

 

Specialists:

Robbie Gould $2,825,000

Pat Mannelly $1,058,334

Adam Podlesh $1,675,000

*** Spencer Lanning $334

Total $5,558,668

 

*** denotes dead cap space

bmbiggs@tribune.com
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 22, 2012, 08:13:50 am
The bottom line is the Bears have the cap space to do whatever they want to do. They have the cash to do what they want to do and an OK from the chairman to spend.

The Bears need to protect that investment they made to Jay Cuttler. Fix that line. That should be priority one.

Then get him tools (WRs) to make him more productive.

Get another DE to rush the other side of Peppers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 22, 2012, 08:14:01 am
LOL, this guy is such a tool...  so glad we dumped him when we did but in truth he was a terrible draft pick to begin with.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/22/cedric-benson-keeps-criticizing-the-bengals-offense/

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 22, 2012, 08:41:34 am
$2.8 mill for Frank OMG.  Buh bye. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 22, 2012, 08:45:58 am
Guy stole MILLIONS from the Bears.  I bet OMG doesn't even get signed by anyone else after Emery cuts him loose.

Great talent evaluation there, Angelo.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 22, 2012, 11:40:19 am
Maybe this guy solves our DE issue...  at least for a year or two while we get the offense up to snuff.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/22/falcons-wont-overpay-to-keep-curtis-lofton-john-abraham/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 22, 2012, 12:53:19 pm
Abraham might give us 2 decent years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on February 22, 2012, 02:48:59 pm
$2.8 mill for Frank OMG.  Buh bye. 

You mean "he gone"?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 22, 2012, 02:56:08 pm
OMG will be a good acid test for Emery.

He is clearly the worst O-Lineman on the team and arguably one of the worst 5 players on our roster, period.

OTOH he was also drafted by the Falcons...  when Emery was in their front office.

Does Emery have the stones to do what Angelo was unable to do way too often...  admit error, cut losses and move on?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 22, 2012, 04:22:58 pm
Well he hasnt been cut yet that I know of
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 22, 2012, 04:33:33 pm
Speaking of the new gm, is anything coming out of Halas hall, or is it a total blackout? I haven't seen anything much, but admit to not looking so hard.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 22, 2012, 04:40:29 pm
Feels like pretty much a total blackout right now.

There was a PFT article today on the Bears' cap situation but even that didn't really contain any new information, nor was anyone in the organization quoted directly.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 22, 2012, 04:54:38 pm
Yeah its been total silence. Not even TV or even Mully.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 23, 2012, 06:15:57 am
OMG will be a good acid test for Emery.

He is clearly the worst O-Lineman on the team and arguably one of the worst 5 players on our roster, period.

OTOH he was also drafted by the Falcons...  when Emery was in their front office.

Does Emery have the stones to do what Angelo was unable to do way too often...  admit error, cut losses and move on?

I don't see this as any type of acid test.  Unless Emery decides to retain him.  Then Emery should be drug tested for acid...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 23, 2012, 08:12:57 am
In Emery's defense re OMG...  IIRC OMG was a 5th round pick.  That's an appropriate pick to take a chance on a versatile big body with some athleticism even if the small school (Tennessee Tech) should have been a red flag both on level of competition and OMG's intelligence.

By now it's been clearly established he can't cut it at the NFL level -- and that's after two years working with one of the best OL coaches in the biz -- so letting him go should be a no-brainer especially at the salary involved.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 23, 2012, 08:21:35 am
Hmmmm...looks like the office side is being taken care of, one way or another..  If nothing else there will be change for sure.  Hope its for good.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-pro-scout-wilson-expected-to-leave-bears-for-rams-job-20120222,0,842636.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 23, 2012, 08:34:15 am
I'd feel better if it was one of our college scouts leaving vs. a pro personnel guy, since the draft is where we seriously need to pick things up.

But, whatever.

I do know this much...  if we get to the draft and we haven't already signed at least one big-time WR and/or a legit LT in FA, I'm gonna start getting very nervous.  We've got way too many needs to address just in the draft and with the ridiculous cap room we have there's no excuse not to go balls-out for at least a couple of high-quality starters in FA.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 23, 2012, 06:52:53 pm
just said on espn (aka the "mothership") Smith was quoted as saying the Bears will reach a long term contract agreement with 22. Given the current closemouth approach by the Bears, you know he was green lighted to say that.  I feel much better.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 23, 2012, 09:33:13 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0224-haugh-chicago--20120224,0,145831.column

Good article.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 23, 2012, 09:57:18 pm
Biggest thing is we cannot have one without the other,i.e. we need BOTH a improved Oline AND bigger, better wideouts. One without the other is still a disaster waiting to happen. So....what do we do with the first pick???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 23, 2012, 10:07:00 pm
The Bears need to take a LT or WR with their first pick that will come in and start from day one.  Those are their biggest needs.  However if they can get a true #1 WR in free agency or LT everything changes.  Also if the best WR and LT are of the board at the Bears pick then they need to go to the best value. 

After those we need D line, CB, back up QB and LBer depth.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 24, 2012, 07:58:29 am
Biggest thing is we cannot have one without the other,i.e. we need BOTH a improved Oline AND bigger, better wideouts. One without the other is still a disaster waiting to happen. So....what do we do with the first pick???

You take half a WR and half of a LOT, thats what you do. ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 24, 2012, 08:09:45 am
No...they draft a LOT that can ALSO play wideout!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 24, 2012, 08:13:53 am
Biggest thing is we cannot have one without the other,i.e. we need BOTH a improved Oline AND bigger, better wideouts. One without the other is still a disaster waiting to happen. So....what do we do with the first pick???

The way I see it, the best players likely to be available to us at those positions are Michael Floyd at WR and Mike Adams at OT.  If one of those guys is still there, that's the pick.  I see no reason either of them shouldn't be able to come in, start from Day One and significantly improve this team. If they're both available, that's a good problem to have and it may come down to what we've already done (or not) in FA.

Defense, IMO, shouldn't even be in the equation in the first round unless an unbelievable value presents itself...  i.e., Melvin Ingram or Dre Kirkpatrick.  Guys like Mercilus, the small DE from Marshall, Janoris Jenkins or pretty much any LB...  no thanks.

A couple of players who would probably be justified on value at 19 but might raise some eyebrows would be Kendall Wright WR and David DeCastro OG.  Wright because he doesn't meet our need for a big target and DeCastro because we're pretty well full to overflowing at OG already and Top 20 is pretty rare air for an interior OL.  DeCastro would almost certainly be the best OL available were he to fall to 19 so I wouldn't balk at that pick but I think I'd need a lot more convincing on Wright.  He's basically Devin Hester with better receiving skills and while that's certainly not a bad thing I'm not sure that's a skill set we need to necessarily double-up on at the expense of other positions we could bolster with that pick. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 24, 2012, 08:50:57 am
Depending on how the chips fall, it may not be possible to meet both needs together this year. I think it'll be a miracle if they get both a very good wideout and a very good LT. If both happen, WHOO HOO look out for DA BEARRRSE!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 24, 2012, 09:20:50 am
- Vincent Jackson in FA

Draft Rd 1 - Best available OL  (T, G or C)

Draft Rd 2 - Best available DE, CB or S 

Draft Rd 3a - Best available WR

Draft Rd 3b - Best available LB  (maybe we get lucky and find Urlacher or Briggs' eventual replacement here)

Draft Rds 4-7 - Best available player each round

If all of the above transpires between now and the end of April I'd have a lot of reasons to be excited about the coming season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 24, 2012, 09:27:42 am
- Vincent Jackson in FA

Draft Rd 1 - Best available OL  (T, G or C)

Draft Rd 2 - Best available DE, CB or S 

Draft Rd 3a - Best available WR

Draft Rd 3b - Best available LB  (maybe we get lucky and find Urlacher or Briggs' eventual replacement here)

Draft Rds 4-7 - Best available player each round

If all of the above transpires between now and the end of April I'd have a lot of reasons to be excited about the coming season.

At first I was thinking WR in the 2nd and DE/CB/S in the 3rd, but VJackson would help.  And we do need a stud at those positions.  Thanks Angelo.  May you rot in hell for what you have done to the talent level on this team. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 24, 2012, 09:40:22 am
Yeah...  my gut wants us to just load up every draft pick this year on offense.  #1 because that's how games are won in the NFL now and #2 because we've squandered so many quality picks on the D over the years.

OTOH we saw clearly last year (and especially after Cutler went down) that the Bears D in its current form is no better than middle of the pack at best.  Not to mention that when guys like Tillman, Urlacher and Peppers hit the end of the line it could be fast and ugly crash for that whole defensive unit considering the lack of young talent in the pipeline.  So you can't totally ignore them for a year either or in a couple more seasons our whole D will be as dreadful as our OL has been, and for the exact same reason.

I think that FA/draft scenario I put up represents about the most balanced approach possible to fixing our several most pressing issues and giving us a fighting chance to get back to the playoffs in 2012.

Then in 2013 we go hard after the LB position (1st round), bring in a young RB to groom behind Forte (2nd or 3rd round), and possibly upgrade S, DT and TE if the younger guys we have in those don't seem to be coming along.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 24, 2012, 09:52:12 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/24/bears-forte-will-meet-this-weekend/

Great news.

I know there are some people who think we should just tag Forte and let it go for another year but if Emery really wants to establish that it's a new day in the Bears personnel office, this is how it starts.

Not to mention, if he's intent on drawing any premier FAs from any other team, it becomes tremendously important to show that the Bears are willing to take care of their own.  Angelo's arrogance and ineptitude have greatly tarnished the Bears reputation around the league (Exhibit A, Jeremy Bates fiasco) and the Bears really need no less than an image makeover that shows the league that these aren't the same old Bears.

There's a lot more on the line here for the franchise than just the future of their franchise RB, and it looks like Emery gets that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on February 24, 2012, 10:56:07 am
Get Forte signed, he's not the greatest, but he is good. Plus, we have other areas to work on. As mentioned, our D is getting old. I would start a little infusion into the D.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on February 24, 2012, 11:03:47 am
A long term deal for Forte should also make the Cap more easily manageable than the Tag.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 24, 2012, 11:32:06 am
I don't know about that.  It is 7.7 million to tag Forte.  He wants more money then that per year. 

Due to other teams doing terrible deals with some RB's recently he wants HUGE money.  Which is why he turned down a very nice offer from the Bears last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 24, 2012, 11:41:44 am
Well you have to have a gameplan and that gameplan begins with free agency. If you believe as some do that the LOT capable FAs arent so hot then you need to get other positions filled in free agency before the draft and then have a plan to get that LOT in the draft even if that requires moving up to get your man.

I take exception to the "just take any old OLman with #19" attitude. We dont need a Center or a OG that badly to waste a 1st on those positions. We want a starter with #19 not a bench player and we dont need to draft a OG stud and make him start at LT. Its not my fault Angelo has decimated the line of talent, but LOT needs to be fixed and the other pieces will be adequate for this year. THEN you can begin adding pieces at other OLine places as needed. LOT is the primary need to be filled in the draft.

If we were to score with Vincent Jackson or Bowe and a LOT at #19 then we can address CB and DE later, although I would love to get both Vincent Jackson and a premiere DE in free agency if thats possible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 24, 2012, 11:57:56 am
Due to other teams doing terrible deals with some RB's recently he wants HUGE money.  Which is why he turned down a very nice offer from the Bears last year.

Or maybe his agent just couldn't stand Angelo.  We already saw how the Jer poisoned the well with Bates...  I wonder how many other people he alienated the same way?

If they wound up getting a long-term deal done in the next few days -- for the same numbers or less than Forte was offered the last time around -- I would LMAO and be really pissed at Angelo, all at the same time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 24, 2012, 01:11:13 pm
I take exception to the "just take any old OLman with #19" attitude. We dont need a Center or a OG that badly to waste a 1st on those positions. We want a starter with #19 not a bench player and we dont need to draft a OG stud and make him start at LT. Its not my fault Angelo has decimated the line of talent, but LOT needs to be fixed and the other pieces will be adequate for this year. THEN you can begin adding pieces at other OLine places as needed. LOT is the primary need to be filled in the draft.

I get your point, but I was going through a scenario last night where David DeCastro fell to us (very unlikely).  Keep in mind this is a guy that some scouts feel is a Pro Bowl caliber NFL OG right now, so this isn't just "any old OL".  So if you get a guy like that, you potentially improve at least 4 positions on our team just like that.

1) DeCastro replaces either of last year's starting OGs... instant upgrade to one OG position from Day One
2) Louis, Spencer, and Edwin Williams all now have to compete for the other OG spot, making that position as strong as possible
3) Chris Williams can quit playing OG and compete with Webb for LT...  making that position better
4) The loser of Williams / Webb at LT becomes a backup swing T, albeit much better than OMG...  improving your backup OT situation

Now keep in mind you have to be talking about an exceptional interior OL to warrant a Top 20 pick but DeCastro is one of those guys. In fact I don't think I've seen a single mock draft with him falling out of the Top 20. 

If I'm Emery, I'm on the clock at 19 and it's the choice between the top-ranked OG on everybody's board (not to mention one of the most highly rated OGs to come out since Steve Hutchinson) ...  or the 4th or 5th best WR, DE, or OT...  I'm taking the stud OG and letting Tice decide how to make it all work out. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 24, 2012, 06:38:58 pm
I understand your position and WERE that the case I would let DeCastro play LG and let Williams play center or fight for backup duty somewhere. I think we are fine on the right side of the line. But if the kid from Stanford or the kid from Ohio State are there at #19 I take one of them. I think either can start from day one, which is what we need to make the line function properly.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on February 24, 2012, 07:47:22 pm
Aren't supposed to take the best on the board at your pick on the first round?  Grab the lineman.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on February 25, 2012, 07:20:19 am
Appreciate the analysis, what about this scenario.  Bears on clock with Decastro and Adams on board?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 25, 2012, 08:14:42 am
Personally I loved that idea posted here about moving up from 19 to 15 and taking the big LOT from Stanford.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 25, 2012, 10:25:21 am


Feb 24
 
 
By Jeff Dickerson
 

INDIANAPOLIS -- Even though Jeremy Bates lasted just one season as Seahawks' offensive coordinator, it didn't stop his former boss Pete Carroll from giving the new Bears' assistant coaches a glowing review Friday at the NFL Combine.

 
Carroll and Bates worked together at USC for one year before both moved onto Seattle in 2010. Bates, however, was let go following the 2010 regular season due to reported philosophical differences. But their past parting of the ways did not prevent Carroll from hailing the Bears' decision to hire Bates earlier in the month.

"He's got great depth to him about the system that he's been around," Carroll said. "He really, really knows it. In particular, with Jay Cutler, they kind of grew up together in the system and they really hit it off and were effective when they were together.

"I think it's a great move for Chicago, a great move for Cutler and a great move for Jeremy as well. It's going to work out great for them. I don't know if they'll understand the depth of it until they see those guys work together. I just know through our stories and our communication about things like that, they were really on the same page. So I think it was a great pickup for Chicago."

Bates and the rest of the Bears' assistant coaches are off-limits to the media during the Combine.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 25, 2012, 11:44:03 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4675301/carimi-hopes-to-partake-in-bears-april-camp

CHICAGO -- Chicago Bears right tackle Gabe Carimi said his surgically-repaired right knee is now pain free, and he’s aiming to participate in the team’s first offseason camp in April.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on February 26, 2012, 07:25:50 am
Well this sounds like good news about Carimi:

There is one positive side-effect of his constant presence in the weight room this winter.

“I’ve been lifting the upper body a lot,” he said. “I feel like I’m chiseled up here.”
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 26, 2012, 01:39:13 pm
Sounds good with Carimi, but the questions about him in the NFL have never been about upper body strength, always mobility and footwork. Those are the areas he needs to step it up in what is essentially just now his rookie season.

In other OL news, I would not be surprised at all if Mike Adams was there at 19 as he did not have a very impressive combine. He fared among the worst of all linemen in both the bench (19 reps), and the 40 (5.40).  I haven't heard how he did in drills but for a guy who's supposedly such an athlete at the position, you have to wonder what's up with the crappy showing on those two measurables.  Here's a capsule from WalterFootball about Adams at the combine:

Ohio State offensive tackle Mike Adams had a 40 time of 5.4. He did reasonably well in the on-field drills, but NFL Network drat gurus Mike Mayock and Charles Davis were laying into Adams for his weak bench press total (19) and questioned his lack of weight-room dedication during his five-game suspension to open the 2011 season. Adams surely has been grilled by teams in the interviews. He has a good shot of being a first-round pick because of the demand at left tackle, but Adams has some clear red flags attached to his draft stock.

I can't imagine with Emery's background he'll be too keen on drafting anyone in the 1st round who appears to lack commitment to conditioning.  Complicating matters for teams looking at 1st round OL is that the OT Martin from Stanford pretty much opted out of everything at the combine so who knows what a team is really going to be getting there?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: octagon on February 26, 2012, 01:58:18 pm
Saw on the NFL network scroll that the Bears released Anthony Adams today.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 26, 2012, 02:05:40 pm
If they get a DE in FA then they wont miss Adams
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 26, 2012, 02:47:01 pm
Re Anthony Adams...  one of the more widely predicted cap casualties for the Bears so I assume it didn't take many by surprise, including Adams.

Good to see Emery doing it sooner than later though, which is a standard operating procedure for respected veterans as it allows them more time to pick up with another team. 

So far it seems like Emery is doing everything as it should be done.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 26, 2012, 10:27:33 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8658

Smith not satisfied with d-line

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 27, 2012, 07:49:52 am
Lovie fluff
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 27, 2012, 07:55:55 am
Good, Lovie is not satisified with the DL but what he stubbornly refuses to admit is that his scheme is making his DL look bad.

When you're letting TEs and WR get open for 8-yard slants and ins and your CBs are giving WRs 12-yard cushions and free releases off the line, there's not much the DL can do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on February 27, 2012, 08:11:14 am
Exactly. A DL cannot get to the QB using a 2 step drop and bang the ball's out. Neither can a DB cover forever when the QB has all day back there. First things first; gotta stop those quick routes or at least attempt to cover them. They're some of the hardest routes to cover, hence the success of Wes Welker and the Giants guy-whose-name-I've-forgotten-already. It's not just the DL responsibility to get to the QB. Creative, smart blitzes from the outside help. Teams like the Packers or Patriots rarely let you get up the middle on a blitz to their QB's. Their Oline discipline is fantastic. They're very good at keeping their assignments which means outside blitzing and covering quick routes are very important.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 27, 2012, 08:59:19 am
The one area I thought our DL did a really good job last year (mostly), was in run defense.

But yeah, pass rush and getting arms up to shut down those quick throwing lanes...  not so much.  You look at how a team like the Giants defends those plays vs. how the Bears do it and it's very clear we're behind the curve. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 27, 2012, 06:30:45 pm
Florio posts his Bears To-Do list on PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/bears-2012-to-do-list/

Has TE 4th on the list and I think that's off base.

We can get by in 2012 with who we've got at TE.  Really, we can.  Way too many other more pressing needs and the TE class this year is not impressive anyway.  Let's give big Kellen one more shot with an OC who understands how to use a big TE before we knee-jerk and blow a draft pick trying to replace Greg Olsen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 28, 2012, 11:12:25 am
Class act.  Anthony Adams is a guy who had to go but unlike some other stiffs the Bears have cut lately, I'm sorry to see this guy go. He was actually a good player a stand-up guy always in the locker room.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/28/anthony-adams-praises-the-bears-after-they-cut-him/

I think he's still got some left in the tank and especially with a move like this he should have a new employer in not too much time.  The only thing that could work against him is how ridiculously deep this year's draft class appears to be at DT.  In that respect it's a really bad year to be a 31-year old vested veteran looking for a job at DT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 28, 2012, 05:35:13 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=2898&play_clip=Y&rn=4

Peter King gets interviewed by Larry Mayer about the Bears.  I don't disagree with much of anything he said. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on February 28, 2012, 10:05:38 pm

 We are new.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on February 28, 2012, 11:06:13 pm
San Diego sports radio reported this morning the Bears are going hard after Vincent Jackson.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on February 29, 2012, 07:44:49 am
But he still could be franchised. How can you go after somebody if they arent technically a free agent yet?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 29, 2012, 08:04:55 am
San Diego sports radio reported this morning the Bears are going hard after Vincent Jackson.

I'm all for bringing VJ in here but we had better mind our Ps and Qs.  Technically FA hasn't started yet.  If we're charged with tampering it could cost us a draft pick.

I also expect Cutler would be happy as a clam to welcome VJ to the Bears.  He played against him enough while he was on the Broncos to know what that guy can bring to the table.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on February 29, 2012, 08:05:58 am
Teams still talk to the player's agent all the time.   Otherwise, I don't know what the report is based on.

If the chargers franchise Jackson they will have to pay him almost $14 mil since they already franchised him last year, which it's not believed they will do.

The Chargers are believed to want to let the market be set then make him an offer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on February 29, 2012, 08:07:23 am
Well if the Chiefs tag Bowe as expected, VJ's price will go up accordingly.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on February 29, 2012, 08:09:18 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/29/hines-ward-says-he-will-play-again/

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 01, 2012, 08:34:00 am
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/29/team-needs-2012-chicago-bears/

I dont agree with moving Carimi to LT, but I agree that Oline and tackle specifically are the primary need. They also pointed to the poor job Webb did. They also bad mouthed Louis an OG playing RT, which I thought was unfair. I thought that Louis did a credible job for a player unacustomed to playing outside. But the telling story was that the Bears Oline was the worst in the league. And a hearty thank you for that goes to Jerry Angelo.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 10:40:20 am
Lance Louis had a bunch of surprisingly good games at RT, and one terrible one (I think it was either KC or Denver).

He belongs back inside though, no question.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 01, 2012, 11:22:20 am
The crux of that article which showed the three positional needs of the Bears was that OT was the main need, and not WR. It sure exposed the main culprit as Webb too which I dont disagree with. The third need they discussed we havent expounded on because the first two we have hammered to death here. That issue isnt DLine or CB, they say its safety.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 01:35:47 pm
Well if we're gonna move Carimi to LT then we might as well draft Cordy Glenn, a gigantic (6'5 345) kid out of Georgia who went into the combine as the 2nd rated OG but showed enough agility at Indy to be considered at RT too.

The problem with that approach is, if Carimi flops at LT then we've got nobody cause for all of Glenn's skills he is not LT material at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 01, 2012, 01:53:35 pm
Next Monday is tag day. We shall see who is tagged and who isnt
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 03:02:45 pm
OMG, He Be GONE!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/01/bears-cut-frank-omiyale/

Keep swingin that axe, Emery.  Got a lot of deadwood to clear out still.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 01, 2012, 03:13:08 pm
YESSSS!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 03:15:35 pm
Basically if you're a Chicago Bear that's on the wrong side of 30, taking up a fair chunk of payroll and you're not starting (or you're starting but not playing up to your pay grade), you need to be getting worried right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 03:28:30 pm
Frank Omiyale was/is one of the worst Offensive Linemen I have ever seen, at any level.

My 5th grade nephew plays with better technique than that clown.  And is probably about as strong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 03:35:36 pm
Granted at this point the Bears offseason has really been about addition by subtraction, but you have to like where things are headed.

Yes, with the Pack and Lions in our division we have our work cut out for us.  But I figure, if we can bring in 3 or 4 serious ballers at the positions we all know are lacking...  keep the rest of our core players healthy...  get the passing game going right out of the gate instead of fumbling around the first 5-6 games...  and if Lovie doesn't step on his dick too often during the games... we have a decent chance to be right back in the playoff mix this coming season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 01, 2012, 03:36:46 pm
Soon, the Bears will have to announce a decision regarding running back Matt Forte. He is expected to receive the franchise tag before Monday's 3 p.m. deadline if a long-term contract cannot be worked out before then.

From the Omiyale article in the Trib
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 03:54:13 pm
I would really hate to see Forte playing under the tag this season.  Seems like there's a lot of good mojo circulating at Halas Hall right now and a happy Forte who was locked up long-term would certainly keep things going the right direction. 

Effectively putting his long-term deal on hold for another year via the tag wouldn't send a good message right now.  If Emery really wants to establish that it's his show now, he should be leaning on both sides to get something done.

Speaking of tag...  DeSean Jackson got his from the Eagles. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 01, 2012, 04:07:54 pm
The gm seems to be going about Bear business like a pro.  He's giving OMG and AA a chance to catch elsewhere, and thanked them for they're contribution. Talk about a breath of fresh air.  I just hope what we see is what's going on where we don't see. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 04:25:55 pm
I hope Omiyale banked a bunch of that coin he stole from the Bears cause he's not gonna get anywhere close to that from anybody else.

He's a big body with decent athleticism so I'm sure he'll pick up with somebody but it's gonna be for closer to the veteran minimum than millions of dollars a year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 01, 2012, 04:53:47 pm
I would really hate to see Forte playing under the tag this season.  Seems like there's a lot of good mojo circulating at Halas Hall right now and a happy Forte who was locked up long-term would certainly keep things going the right direction. 

Effectively putting his long-term deal on hold for another year via the tag wouldn't send a good message right now.  If Emery really wants to establish that it's his show now, he should be leaning on both sides to get something done.

Speaking of tag...  DeSean Jackson got his from the Eagles. 

The ones I want to watch closely are Bowe and Vincent Jackson.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 05:16:18 pm
From what I've been hearing, Bowe is a virtual certainty to be tagged by the Chiefs.

Which pretty much reduces the premier #1 candidates down to Vincent Jackson, and possibly Colston. In other words, get out your checkbook Emery.

If we don't make a legitimate all-in play for a guy like Vincent Jackson and just settle on bringing a couple of 2nd-tier guys in here, I will not be happy at all.  The clock is ticking on Cutler's career and we need a guy he can count on now, not someone who maybe will be a borderline #1 after a couple more years of "development" (as if Daryl Drake could develop anyone out of a paper bag to begin with).

Let other teams overpay for projects like Robert Meachem and Laurent Robinson...  we need a heavy hitter with a proven record of performance in the bigs. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 01, 2012, 05:31:26 pm
If the price was right this guy would be a definite upgrade at our #2 CB...  and he comes from a team that knows how to play some D:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/01/ravens-cut-chris-carr/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 01, 2012, 06:44:37 pm
From what I've been hearing, Bowe is a virtual certainty to be tagged by the Chiefs.

Which pretty much reduces the premier #1 candidates down to Vincent Jackson, and possibly Colston. In other words, get out your checkbook Emery.

If we don't make a legitimate all-in play for a guy like Vincent Jackson and just settle on bringing a couple of 2nd-tier guys in here, I will not be happy at all.  The clock is ticking on Cutler's career and we need a guy he can count on now, not someone who maybe will be a borderline #1 after a couple more years of "development" (as if Daryl Drake could develop anyone out of a paper bag to begin with).

Let other teams overpay for projects like Robert Meachem and Laurent Robinson...  we need a heavy hitter with a proven record of performance in the bigs. 

The clock is ticking on Cuttler's career. It is an unstated reason Angelo was fired because of the lack of an adequate backup QB to backup Cuttler and an NFL competent line to protect the franchise QB. That goes to show you how important that LOT is and how important it is to get a proven #1 receiver for Cuttler to pass the ball to.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 01, 2012, 11:03:04 pm
OmigoodnesshowbadamI is finally gone?!? WOW. I'm liking this Emery already!! Great move.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 02, 2012, 09:45:59 am
Comment on Frank OMG, too funny:

jhumbe says:Mar 1, 2012 5:18 PM

I just rocked back out of my stance too early as a celebration tribute at work
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 02, 2012, 09:49:44 am
LOL, I almost spit out my tea reading that!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 02, 2012, 10:58:10 am
I hope there are more cuts coming
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 02, 2012, 11:38:51 am
who else are you looking for Wshful?
Unless they are overpriced I would hold on to most guys to make sure we fill the hole.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 02, 2012, 11:54:07 am
I'm not Wishful, but I'll play    :)

- Roy Williams can be gone tomorrow for all I care.

- CB depth is frequently identified as a liability on the Bears.  Seems to me we should be able to upgrade Jennings / Bowman in FA (or 2nd/3rd round of the draft), and not have to break the bank to do it.  I personally feel Corey Graham is more capable at the #2 CB spot than either Jennings or Bowman but for whatever reasons the coaches have never shared that assessment.

- The situation with Izzy will bear watching as it looks to me he's in somewhat the same boat as Anthony Adams. I.e., a quality guy and a decent player but has he passed the delta as far as age/salary/productivity?  In other words, will he cost us more to retain than he can justify on the field?  Frankly I have a feeling that Izzy would already be on his way out of town except for the fact that Corey Wootten has done absolutely nothing to establish himself as a viable 2nd (or even 3rd) DE. Whereas with Anthony Adams, we had three promising youngsters in the wings (Melton, Toeiana and Paea) so that made letting him go an easier choice.

- Marion Barber is another interesting case.  Once he got healthy and into the flow he did a lot more good than bad for the Bears last year but his "bads" were really bad. And it's really hard to say how much he has left in the tank. Letting him go may be a case of creating a hole just to fill one but I think Emery has to at least explore the option of an upgrade there. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 02, 2012, 12:03:34 pm
Roy Williams for sure, maybe Barber, but we still have some disposable pieces
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 02, 2012, 12:15:21 pm
Assuming Wootton even makes the cut this year, I think this is his make-or-break year.  He's another one of those Angelo medical-case "value" picks that I think Emery would just as soon clear off the roster sooner than later.

I've gotta think with Emery's background that a player's durability and medical record are going to factor a lot more into personnel decisions than they did with the Jer.  Whereas Jerry looked at a long medical report and saw "bargain", Emery will see "high risk, stay away".

I have long maintained that the Lovie-era Bears have lacked a "culture of conditioning", which has resulted in too many player-games lost to injury and too many "collapses" at the ends of games and the last part of the season.  That, combined with a terribly cavalier attitude toward players' injury histories resulting in high draft picks being spent on guys with known, significant injury histories like Tommie Harris, Chris Williams, Gabe Carimi, etc. I'm hoping all of that will change under Emery.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 02, 2012, 01:08:47 pm
Below are our FAs.

These guys I would like back at the right price( in no order)
Forte
Kellen Davis,
Josh McCown,
Israel Idonije,
Chris Massey - cheaper than Mannelly
Amobi Okoye.
Kahlil Bell.
Zackary Bowman,
Corey Graham
Tim Jennings
Craig Steltz.

these guys can walk
Roy Williams,
Caleb Hanie
Brandon Meriweather


I think Barber has another year and I wouldn't mind him being back. He can get the short yards that Forte can't though he did make some bonehead plays last year. I would at least keep him unless we resign Bell. Bell is basically a poor man's Forte doing everything pretty well but not quite as dangerous.
If we bring back Bell and get another back, maybe a scat back type I wouldn't mind Barber leaving.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 02, 2012, 01:22:15 pm
If we bring back Bell and get another back, maybe a scat back type I wouldn't mind Barber leaving.

Yeah except in that scenario we'd have NO power back whatsover.

If we dump Barber then it has to be in favor of a guy who's at least as effective as he is in short yardage, if not more. If we need a "scat back" then line up Hester in the backfield every now and then.

From that list I think it is imperative that we keep:

- Forte  -  DUH
- Kellen Davis  -  Lots of people downin this kid but in the right system I believe he can do everything we need him to do; in any event TE is not a position we can afford to upgrade this year nor do we particularly need to 
- Corey Graham - ST stud who's more valuable as a DB than our coaches give credit for
- Israel Idonije - only cause Wootton has shown NOTHING and we may not be able to find a starting quality DE in the draft this year
- Amobi Okoye - good YOUNG talent who if not starter caliber is better than a lot of backup DTs out there
- Craig Steltz - not sure I would have said this a year ago but between backup S and special teams play he has a lot of value

The following can stay if the price is right but I don't think most teams would consider them viable NFL 2nd stringers:

- Josh McCown
- Kahlil Bell

And these guys can walk:

- Zackary Bowman - he had his chances and the light is just never gonna go on unfortunately
- Tim Jennings - good tackler but too short
- Chris Massey - cheaper than Mannelly yes but Mannelly is an All-Pro at what he does, and he reportedly is healthy again
- Roy Williams - what's taking so long?
- Brandon Merriwether - same as Williams
- Caleb Hanie - same as Merriwether
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 02, 2012, 01:37:17 pm
Dont forget Unga too. Too many personal problems to compete in camp for a job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 02, 2012, 01:42:01 pm
I thought we had cut Unga already.  He's basically another Wootton except that Wootton has actually been on the field for a few plays.

I wonder how many times Emery has looked at some of these guys on our roster and wondered what the hell Angelo was thinking.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 02, 2012, 02:35:49 pm
Franchise tag announcements are coming fast and furious now.  The fact that one of them hasn't been Forte makes me hopeful the parties are working hot and heavy on a longer-term deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 02, 2012, 02:56:50 pm
Keep Jennings. The rest? Meh. The fact that the Bear is clearing cap space is really incouraging. I hope Cutler is getting more and more input on BOTH sides of the ball. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 02, 2012, 03:06:46 pm
What input can he give?  We all know what the team needs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 02, 2012, 03:27:34 pm
It disgusts me that our franchise QB has had to spend his last two offseasons rehabbing from injuries before anyone in Halas Hall apparently realized he needs some help on the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 02, 2012, 04:28:58 pm
Unga wasnt released. He was put on some list whereby he was allowed to go home but not cut. I think he left camp for personal reasons. Bears still own his rights if I am not mistaken
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 02, 2012, 04:44:48 pm
Oh yeah now I remember the Unga thing.  He missed his first year with some kind of injury and then last year it was personal stuff... speculation about his wife's health or some such.

Well anyway it's time to either get him onto the field or off the roster.  Two years on the payroll and I'm not sure he's even put on a Bears game uni yet. That's ridiculous.  If his personal life is such that he can't commit to football on the NFL level that's fine, but then let's give his roster spot to someone who's viable.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 02, 2012, 05:32:55 pm
Phil- Its one thing to know what's needed, and quite another to know how to go about getting it done. They don't hand out degrees at Vandy because your a football player. Cutler earned his, and that's no mean feat.  He's been in the biz a few years now, and I'll bet he has some ideas that I wish someone would listen to. You don't have to act on them, but at least listen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 02, 2012, 07:47:58 pm
Forte  tagged. phuck.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 02, 2012, 08:59:15 pm
First real glitch of the Emery era. I hope they will continue working towards a long term deal vs just hanging Matt out to dry for another year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 02, 2012, 09:02:18 pm
Hopefully the tag is just an insurance policy that they get a deal done.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 03, 2012, 06:38:35 am
If they didn't tag him, he would be a lot more expensive to sign.  And we would likely lose him.  Had to be done
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 03, 2012, 07:34:26 am
If Forte was willing to play for 600,000 last year I am sure he will play for 7.7 million this year.  He is going to stick to his guns and demand a huge contract when he is a free agent next year. Or get a huge contract signed this year.  He is demanding top dollar.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on March 03, 2012, 08:36:47 am
A healthy Forte is worth top dollar. He's that damn good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 03, 2012, 10:22:57 am
The problem is he can now skip all of camp and come in the first day of the season.  In who knows what shape, plus no chemistry building.  Hopefully he isnt a dick about it and shows up, but right now that is his only leverage.  Get the deal dont, meet in the middle. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 03, 2012, 10:44:37 am
Here is something interesting from ESPN. Admittedly I dont like ESPN because if its interesting its usually in Insider and you have to pay for that.


Where's the best spot for Vincent Jackson?

 March, 2, 2012

 
By Bill Williamson
 
In an Insider piece, Gary Horton of Scouts Inc. looks at the five best destinations for San Diego free agent receiver Vincent Jackson. In the end, though, Horton reasons that the best spot for Jackson is to stay in San Diego. That’s the scenario both Jackson and the Chargers want.

JacksonHowever, because there is a remote chance the Chargers will place the franchise tag on Jackson by Monday’s deadline, the more likely scenario is that the Chargers and Jackson will discuss a deal once he hits the open market. If the Chargers are in the same range of Jackson’s best offer, he will likely be inclined to stay in San Diego.
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 03, 2012, 11:20:21 am
With the Chargers already having to rebuild their OL, if they let VJ get away then Rivers is in for a long year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 03, 2012, 12:19:42 pm
If they let him go they might be able to afford to rebuild the line and protect Rivers
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 03, 2012, 07:53:39 pm
One thing AJ Smith can do is find offensive linemen.

The LT and LG they finished the season with played well.

I don't necessarily think they'll have to invest heavily there in FA.

It's all but certain they are going to let other teams set the market for Jackson then decide if they can sign him or not.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 03, 2012, 09:11:10 pm
Agreed on Chargers finding good OL. If our OL had been of that caliber, Cutler might have won a NFC championship for us by now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 04, 2012, 07:18:56 pm
Well Its tag day tomorrow. Since Brees was tagged it means Nicks and Colston cant be tagged. That much we know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 08:27:25 am
I believe the tag deadline is 3pm CT today. Wont be long before all our FA options will be known
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 10:10:13 am
Not that I really wanted this guy, but here's another FA WR off the market:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/05/five-years-36-25-million-for-stevie-johnson/

So it's basically Vincent Jackson and Colston and that's about it, or so it's looking.  Emery had better be ready to open up the checkbook, and have a contingency plan for that position in the draft as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 05, 2012, 10:50:31 am
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/mar/04/mondays-deadline-almost-certain-pass-without-tag-v/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 11:13:54 am
That doesnt look good. And that 1pm is PT not CT. I really dont want Colston and am hoping that Bowe isnt tagged. I really dont expect the Bears to break the bank to sign Vincent Jackson. IMHO it would be foolish for the Bears to bid on VJax then him go back to SD and they match and keep him
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 11:21:53 am
Would be really interesting to know V-Jax' thoughts about Cutler since they played against each other a few times back in Cutler's Denver days.

If we can't land V-Jax or Colston then we had better brace ourselves for a trade-up on draft day cause that is likely what it will take to get Floyd.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 05, 2012, 11:32:03 am
I don't think they'll trade up for a WR.  This draft has a wealth of WR's available in the first 2 rounds.

I think they'll go for an OL or a pass rusher if the receiver they covet isn't there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 11:38:14 am
Yeah there will be some decent WRs in Round 2 (maybe even Round 3), but will they be able to start from Day One? I see only Floyd fitting that bill.  Which means if we don't get Floyd and we don't get V-Jax or Colston, we have basically failed in Priority One of this offseason which is to get Cutler a big weapon that can improve the offense right out of the gate.   

And FWIW I'm officially off the Alshon Jeffery bandwagon.  Nice size and experience against top competition, but the kid did not play up to his ability this last season and he's been as flaky as a Danish leading up to the draft. I'm interested to see which team winds up taking a flyer on him...  quite sure it will not be the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 11:53:57 am
Those silly Seahawks...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/05/seahawks-hosting-free-agent-omiyale-on-monday/

Seriously...  do some of these GMs not even watch film of these guys?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 12:06:58 pm
Yeah there will be some decent WRs in Round 2 (maybe even Round 3), but will they be able to start from Day One? I see only Floyd fitting that bill.  Which means if we don't get Floyd and we don't get V-Jax or Colston, we have basically failed in Priority One of this offseason which is to get Cutler a big weapon that can improve the offense right out of the gate.   

And FWIW I'm officially off the Alshon Jeffery bandwagon.  Nice size and experience against top competition, but the kid did not play up to his ability this last season and he's been as flaky as a Danish leading up to the draft. I'm interested to see which team winds up taking a flyer on him...  quite sure it will not be the Bears.

Totally disagree there. Priority one should be to protect the QB. LT should be priority one, then WR. And I wouldnt give 10 dry farts for a tall possession receiver. And thats what Floyd is.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 12:51:18 pm
OK, so if we don't get Floyd, V-Jax or Colston...  and if we start the season with J'Marcus Webb at LT...  then we will have failed at the top TWO priorities of the offseason. Somehow, sickening as it would be, I could see that happening. 

I am totally bracing myself to see us draft a DE or DT in the first round, a TE in the 2nd (hopefully not the short fat guy from UGA), OG and LB with our 3rd round picks and our "big" FA acquisition is a 2nd-tier DB.  In which scenario we really have not addressed our pressing needs at all, Cutler keeps underperforming his ability and the Bears probably don't finish with a much better record than last year even if all our studs stay healthy.  But unless Emery is willing to open the checkbook and make some bold moves at the WR and LT positions, that's kinda how I see things playing out.  And even if he is, depending on what other teams do with the tags that could take a lot of our options off the table irregardless of price.

Suffice to say, I'm not as up on our prospects of dramatically improving our roster this offseason now as I was a few weeks ago.  FA and the draft both seem to be turning against us a bit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 05, 2012, 12:52:02 pm
Lions just tagged Avril.  So you can cross him off your list too. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 05, 2012, 12:53:24 pm
I agree with Wshfl, if we can protect Cutler, he can stay upright long enough to find one of our mediocre WRs.  A premier WR would be gravy.  ;) 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 02:25:49 pm
Emery doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would intentionally tank the roster for a season so he could fire the coaches...  but if he drafts what appear to be a bunch of long-term projects vs. guys that can help us win right away, you kind of have to wonder what's going on.

So far his moves have been sound but they have primarily been addition by subtraction.  And they haven't exactly been radical (cutting Anthony Adams and Omiyale, and tagging Forte have been predicted by most on this board for weeks).  It's not enough to clear out the deadwood (though it's more than Angelo did)...  you have to replace those stiffs with quality players.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 05, 2012, 02:47:57 pm
Seahawks looking at OMGoodnessI'mbad?!? Are these guys absolutely blind?!? That is just unfathomably stupid!! One of the worst linemen to play the game and you're gonna look at him for your team?!?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 05, 2012, 02:52:51 pm
Saints can't tag that monster LG now can they? Hmmmmmmmmm... BTW the headhunter fund is  turning into an absolute quagmire.  Seems some agents (!) outside the org. donated. Now you've got legal problems of being paid outside the collective bargining agreement.  And, of course, its being asked if that income was reported and filed on the players 1040's for those years. Income tax evasion. What got Capone. Yum. Get  your popcorn ready!  The shows about to start in the BIG EASY!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 05, 2012, 02:54:31 pm
Would be nice if we could squeeze a couple of those top linemen off the Saints,hmm......  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 02:57:08 pm
Getting 40 WRs isnt going to keep Cuttler upright. You are paying the man like 9 Mill and we cant keep him healthy? He has zilch time to throw the ball. The line is a sieve, the worst in the league and it starts with one guy Webb. VJax isnt going to keep Webb from screwing up. Only a better option at LT is going to make the line better
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 02:57:49 pm
I wanted Carl Nicks to be a Bear when he was coming out of college. But of course our GM at the time had other priorties.

Nicks is a great OG and would be a tremendous upgrade at LG over Chris Williams...  but I think Colston would help our offense more.  No question that Cutler's protection needs to improve... a lot...  but there were times last year he did have protection and still couldn't make a play because Hester couldn't get open, Knox got neutralized by a big CB or Roy Williams dropped it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:02:52 pm
Aaaand there goes another one off the list:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/05/dwayne-bowe-gets-the-franchise-tag/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 03:05:20 pm
Saints can't tag that monster LG now can they? Hmmmmmmmmm... BTW the headhunter fund is  turning into an absolute quagmire.  Seems some agents (!) outside the org. donated. Now you've got legal problems of being paid outside the collective bargining agreement.  And, of course, its being asked if that income was reported and filed on the players 1040's for those years. Income tax evasion. What got Capone. Yum. Get  your popcorn ready!  The shows about to start in the BIG EASY!

Yes the Saints cant tag Carl Nicks. Trouble is we need a LT not a LG. Chris Williams might not be the best OG but he has done an adequate job, adequate enough that he can start.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 05, 2012, 03:08:46 pm
We could use help anywhere we can get it on the line, OG, C, LT, RT whatever. We've generated zero pro bowlers off that line now for a few years. Who was the last to get on, Kruetz? And he was in decline.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 03:09:54 pm
I am really sorry they tagged Bowe. With VJax almost assuredly going to re-sign with SD it appears that Colston is the only receiver left we have a shot at. I wouldnt expect the Bears to outbid SD for VJax. Thats not the Bears modus operandi. Nowhere have I heard VJax is disgruntled and wants out of SD
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:12:30 pm
Personally I think the Bears should go balls-out in FA to get the best available LT...  and if we can do that, then offer Miami our 1st round pick and next year's 3rd for Brandon Marshall.  Marshall is motivated to re-unite with Cutler and nobody we could find at 19 is going to bring what he does to the table.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:13:41 pm
Nowhere have I heard VJax is disgruntled and wants out of SD.

Indeed, and in fact multiple reports say that even with the way San Diego has jerked VJax around, he very much wants to stay there.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:16:13 pm
One thing is for sure... adding talent to our D would be nice but it is not going to put the Bears over the top in the NFC North.  Plugging more new talent into Lovie's outdated and fundamentally flawed system is just p*ssing in the wind.

Resources must be allocated to the offense this year, and plenty of 'em.   This is no longer Urlacher's team, it's Cutler's team and our personnel decisions need to reflect that new reality.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 03:20:46 pm
Personally I think the Bears should go balls-out in FA to get the best available LT...  and if we can do that, then offer Miami our 1st round pick and next year's 3rd for Brandon Marshall.  Marshall is motivated to re-unite with Cutler and nobody we could find at 19 is going to bring what he does to the table.



I like your idea of going after Brandon Marshall, but I have grave fears that getting the best LT available is going to take #19 and at least one of our 3rds to move up to get Martin from Stanford. Then whats left to offer Miami for Brandon Marshall?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:25:54 pm
That's why I said, if we got a top LT in FA.

Obviously if we're going into the draft with J'Marcus Webb still #1 on the LT depth chart, then that position becomes priority in the draft and we'd have to hope we can find a WR in the 2nd who's good enough to start for us right away.

And for anyone thinking, "well we've got Forte and Tice is going to run the ball more, so WR isn't that big of a deal"...  I would simply remind everyone that Forte is not real happy about being tagged and while he's a quality guy through and through, I think it's extremely presumptive to think he'll be motivated to give 100% effort if he doesn't have a long-term deal by opening day.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 03:27:23 pm
The best FA LT thats out there seems to be Demetrious Bell from Buffalo. Beings that they have signed their WR it looks like Bell could get the tag. There just isnt much talent at LT out there this year. Emery really has his hands full if he intends on upgrading the LT position. And he desperately needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:30:11 pm
Beings that they have signed their WR it looks like Bell could get the tag.

Oh yeah...  didn't think about that.  That would suck.

The upside is, Webb is so bad that even a 2nd-tier FA would be an upgrade.  Maybe if a premier LT doesn't come onto the market then we split that money out to upgrade two positions (2nd tier LT and a quality LG) and maybe the end result would be the same or close enough to it.  Webb is bad but he is not being helped by having a guy next to him (Chris Williams) who isn't very good either and is fragile to boot.  And the guy who filled in after Chris Williams went down (Ed Williams?) was just brutal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 03:31:08 pm
Just saying to be saying Yap
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:38:24 pm
Don't look now but here comes our first FA signing...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/05/ravens-part-ways-with-domonique-foxworth/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 03:41:56 pm
Now were the Bears to go out and get Nicks, just maybe he could help Chris Williams enough to get us by for another year at LT and maybe the competition at LT could be beneficial for Webb. The best I can say for Webb is to bring him in to TC and let him compete for a job
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:44:44 pm
Now were the Bears to go out and get Nicks, just maybe he could help Chris Williams enough to get us by for another year at LT and maybe the competition at LT could be beneficial for Webb. The best I can say for Webb is to bring him in to TC and let him compete for a job

Yeah that's what I've been thinking for awhile.  If we can't get a stud LT, then maybe the next best option is to bring in an uber-stud LG and hope that guy can take up some of the slack...  along with a stud WR that can bail Cutler out when things break down.

Totally agree that Webb should by no means just be handed a starting job this season.  We saw what he had against Jared Allen the last game of the season, and it was pretty pathetic.

Now...  if you could sign Carl Nicks...  draft Jonathan Martin... AND find a stud WR in the 2nd round...  then you're really getting somewhere.  And you're clearly sending a message that the OL is going to return to its rightful place of priority under the new regime.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 03:48:59 pm
I somehow dont think so on Foxworth.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:52:35 pm
V-Jax will not be tagged.

Let the bidding commence.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/05/chargers-pull-plug-on-franchise-tag/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 03:56:32 pm
Somehow Emery has to be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat and get a LT. I'd love Nicks and Martin.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 03:59:02 pm
V-Jax down the sideline with play-action to Forte and Nicks and Martin keeping the pocket clean...  yeah that would be sweet.

Not to mention Nicks at 355 lbs could help us get those clutch inside runs on short-yardage that we've traditionally lacked.  Tice makes no bones about liking BIG O-Linemen.  When he was HC in Minny they had one of the biggest OLs I had ever seen up to that point. Their LTs were both over 300 lbs and they had an OG that was pushing 350 IIRC.
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 04:05:26 pm
Here's the deal with V-Jax...  if he has another alcohol related offense, it's an automatic 1-year suspension by the league.

So if we're gonna make a bid for him then Emery might want to budget for a handler that can keep him clean 24/7.  There are a lot of places to drink in Chicago.

Also, teams like New England and San Fran are rumored as potential interested parties, so it's not like we're gonna be competing against the dregs of the league for this guy.   Not to mention the Chargers retain the right to match so they may have every intention of re-signing him and are just looking for other teams to set the market.

But then I never thought I'd see Julius Peppers in the navy and orange either, so there you go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 04:25:12 pm
Cuttler on a keeper behind Nicks for the TD. Gotcha
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 05, 2012, 04:35:35 pm
Screw the Pats. They don't need jack. They've gotten enough of the dang talent from years of top picks regardless of where they finish. Hope they lose talent instead...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 04:48:03 pm
Article on the top 10 non-tagged FA available.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/05/assessing-the-best-free-agents-left-after-the-franchise-deadline/

Two OGs (Grubbs and Nicks)...  one OT (Gaither).

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 05, 2012, 04:53:34 pm
Cutler and Rivers have history...   If Cutler can't be re-united with Brandon Marshall then taking away his rival QB's #1 WR would be a nice consolation prize. 

Just read where Colston has had five knee surgeries in his NFL career.  That changes my outlook on him a bit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 05, 2012, 04:55:23 pm
Getting Marshall is a pipe dream.  Not gonna happen.

Got to hit it in free agency and/or the draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 06:00:18 pm
And Gaither has character issues I've read. What those are I have no idea but its a red flag I am sure to the Bears. Thats why I said Bell was likely to be the best LT
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 05, 2012, 06:09:01 pm
Mighty slim pickings in FA. Except for Nicks, whom I assume wanting to be the highest paid OG will not endear himself to the Bears, I dont see much of value in free agency. Gonna have to trade or draft the talent needed it looks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 08:13:46 am
Nicks reportedly wants to be the highest paid interior OL in the league. 

Now whether any other team will comply with that request remains to be seen and it very likely will not be the Saints as they have a ton of money tied up in their other OG already not to mention Brees, etc.

OTOH if his presence on the left side of our OL would allow Webb or Chris Williams to play LT at a passable level (vs. what we've seen till now), it might be worth it and especially with such slim prospects for an LT upgrade via FA or draft.

Grubbs from the Ravens may also be worth pursuing.  He doesn't bring the bulk of Nicks -- in fact at 6'3 310 he's a bit undersized -- but he is far better than any OG currently on our roster, he has a lot of experience playing outdoor games in a physical conference, and he would probably come cheaper than Nicks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 06, 2012, 09:03:23 am
The likely prospect of the Bears going after Grubbs is far higher than them going after Nicks.  :( :( :(
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 09:19:26 am
Yeah...  I'm not even sure if Grubbs is a LG or RG.  Even if he's a LG I'm not sure he would help pick up the slack for Webb/Williams like Nicks certainly would.

If he's a RG the point is moot cause I think Lance Louis will do just fine for us there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 09:30:44 am
The picture in this article pretty much says it all...  V Jax torching Peanut and Graham for a big gain.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-no-tag-for-potential-bears-target-jackson-20120305,0,2807129.story

Now photoshop it so he's wearing a Bears uni and the DBs are Packers, and suddenly it looks a lot better...   ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 06, 2012, 09:41:03 am
He's a very good receiver but did have many games with 3 catches or less.

He's not consistently dominating to say the least.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 09:48:52 am
I know that a couple of questions about V Jax (beyond the DUI thing) are #1, will he keep trying after he gets paid and #2, how would he do in Chicago playing at cold, crappy Soldier Field compared to San Diego's nice field and year-around great weather?

Regarding #1, I guess that's a gam-ble you take giving any FA a big contract and re #2, he did play his college ball in Colorado (in a conference that played against schools in the Dakotas), so he has definitely logged some games in less than ideal conditions up north.

The bottom line is that Angelo failed to stock this team with legitimate NFL WR talent for years (Mark Bradley? Juaquin Iglesias?   ::)  ) ...  compounded by the fact that Daryl Drake is one of the worst WR coaches to still have a job in this league...  and so now, much like Cutler and Peppers were brought in for the exact same reasons, we have to spend beaucoup bucks and take no small degree of risk to bring in a finished product from out-of-house at a position of critical need.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 06, 2012, 10:16:20 am
What do you think about giving up our 1st round pick to the Steelers to get WR Wallace?  He is a restricted FA, and the Steelers are cap stretched.  We make an offer they cant match, give up our 1st and get a 25 yo stud. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 06, 2012, 10:17:30 am
Here is a mock that has OT Martin falling to us at 19:

http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 06, 2012, 10:27:50 am
they have us taking an OT in rounds 1 and 2!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 06, 2012, 10:44:01 am
What do you think about giving up our 1st round pick to the Steelers to get WR Wallace?  He is a restricted FA, and the Steelers are cap stretched.  We make an offer they cant match, give up our 1st and get a 25 yo stud. 

Not unless they trade us their starting LT too. A 2nd and a 3rd I might give them. A starting LT is priority #1
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 10:50:28 am
Hmmm...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/06/interest-in-randy-moss-heats-up/

As for Wallace... absolutely not.  He's 6' 199 when our entire WR corps is undersized already. I wouldn't even want him as a FA, much less giving our 1st round pick for him.

If we're gonna go that route we might as well just wait and reach for Kendall Wright who is certain to be there at 19 cause of his height (5'10) and bad combine numbers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 10:57:29 am
Interesting GBN mock there.

In that scenario, the Rams make out like bandits.  Blackmon and Mike Adams solve their two biggest needs right there.

Couple of things though.  It has the Kuechly the LB going too low, and Kendall Wright going ahead of Floyd which isn't gonna happen. It's insane to think a team would spend a Top 10 pick on a 5'10 WR and especially a team like the Bills that plays 3/4 of their games in crappy weather.  Also I think Ingram will go higher than GBN is predicting.

I like how it turns out for the Bears though.  Martin immediately starts and upgrades the LT position, the 2nd round OT is a hedge against Carimi getting hurt again, the 3a WR is a big body and I haven't heard of the CB they have us at 3b but it seems like a good place to address a 2nd-tier need.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 06, 2012, 11:14:39 am
I found the GBN mock exciting and sure addresses the needs properly
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 06, 2012, 11:43:21 am
If the draft turned out like that mock, I think a lot of us would be very happy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 06, 2012, 12:00:46 pm
If we get Martin at 19, I want something other than an OT at the 2nd pick.
A 2nd rounder from a competent GM should either start or be in the rotation real quick.
Carimi and Webb can compete at RT with the loser being swing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 06, 2012, 12:04:53 pm
If we get Martin at 19, I want something other than an OT at the 2nd pick.
A 2nd rounder from a competent GM should either start or be in the rotation real quick.
Carimi and Webb can compete at RT with the loser being swing.

I can understand this.  But just looked up Massie and he sounds kind of good.  And the dearth of OL talent we have had over the years, stocking up might not be so bad. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 12:09:28 pm
This is a strong year for OL talent (except for C), and hopefully next year we'll be drafting much lower than 19, so this could be the year to make hay. 

I'm not sure if I'd want both of my top 2 picks going for OT...  maybe a starting LT with the 1 and a developmental interior OL with our higher 3rd...  But to address the OL with two out of our top 4 picks would not be overkill IMO at all considering the way Angelo has let that unit deteriorate over the years.

It's like a house...  you can patch the cracks in the foundation when you see them, or you can let it go and eventually you have to put the whole damn house on jacks and re-do the entire thing, at an exponentially higher cost.  Unfortunately we are closer to the latter scenario on our OL than the former.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 12:42:15 pm
Now here's one I didn't see coming...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/06/freeney-could-be-out-in-indy-too/

A guy as small as Freeney, you always wonder if he has much left in the tank at his age.  The prospect of him opposite Peppers is intriguing though, to say the least.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 06, 2012, 01:02:02 pm
The Bear might want to take a look. Objectively, this defense's linebackers good for one,two years max? I mean, the team (once again!) is left with a long shopping list of wants. Wonder where the jer is now?  Probably in a vault cackling and counting his millions he bilked out of the less than competent Bear organization.  Is anyone in the nfl beating down his door to come to work for them as a gm?  I have my doubts. This new guy had better be a magician, and a damn good one at that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 06, 2012, 01:08:49 pm
The Bear might want to take a look. Objectively, this defense's linebackers good for one,two years max? I mean, the team (once again!) is left with a long shopping list of wants. Wonder where the jer is now?  Probably in a vault cackling and counting his millions he bilked out of the less than competent Bear organization.  Is anyone in the nfl beating down his door to come to work for them as a gm?  I have my doubts. This new guy had better be a magician, and a damn good one at that.

Absolutely. He has got to come up with a plan to fix that line to protect Cuttler and get Cuttler some more weapons
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 01:18:27 pm
Stud...

From the school that brought you Megatron and Demaryius Thomas.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/06/stephen-hill-tries-to-show-hes-a-complete-receiver-at-pro-day/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on March 06, 2012, 01:49:42 pm
Bobby Massie was a 5-star OT recruit coming out of HS to Ole Miss.

Never played much like a 5-star, though...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 02:12:03 pm
Seems like Ole Miss has sent quite a few OL to the NFL the last 10 years or so.  I think the Bears even had one a few years back (Metcalf?)

Some of them have turned out pretty well, others not so much but there have been a pretty good number of them at least getting a shot in the bigs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 03:43:02 pm
I could see this guy being a temptation for Emery at 19...  especially if Floyd and Martin are off the board.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/06/whitney-mercilus-looks-good-at-illinois-pro-day/

Bears fans will be calling for Emery's head on a stick if we go defense in the 1st round, but if Emery feels a defensive guy is BPA I'm sure that won't stop him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 06, 2012, 04:37:47 pm
Saints could wind up in really hot water over this whole "bounty" thing.

If they go into the crapper cause of all this, fine by me.  A non-competitive Saints team can only help the Bears' chances of getting back into the playoff mix this year. 

I wish this was all coming down on the Packers instead of the Saints, but I'll take what I can get.  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 06, 2012, 06:36:58 pm
I could see this guy being a temptation for Emery at 19...  especially if Floyd and Martin are off the board.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/06/whitney-mercilus-looks-good-at-illinois-pro-day/

Bears fans will be calling for Emery's head on a stick if we go defense in the 1st round, but if Emery feels a defensive guy is BPA I'm sure that won't stop him.


Well if this kid is the second coming of Simeon Rice I could see Lovie really pushing for him. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 06, 2012, 06:57:10 pm
I watched a few games where he was dominate.  Others where he just made a few plays.  The kid has a high motor but does seem to disapear at times.  Of course Illinois is not that good so he did not have the best supporting cast.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 07, 2012, 08:13:42 am
I just can't see taking a pass rusher at 19.  How many kids have come in as a pass rushing DE and made an instant impact from Day One of their rookie season?  The rate of DEs who are overdrafted in the 1st round because of their supposed pass rushing ability and then come in and bust (or at best, underperform) is high.  When you draft a pass rush specialist you are essentially drafting a part-time player and if you're going to spend a 1st round pick on a specialist he had better be extraordinary -- not just pretty good -- at that particular specialty.  Not to mention Mercilus really has one good college season on his record... just one.  We've gotten burned on one-year wonders before.  I have yet to see any credible source place Mercilus in the category of Simeon Rice... beyond the fact they are similiarly sized DEs who played at the same school.  I'm not saying Mercilus won't be a solid NFL player -- he may well be -- but I just don't see a Top 20 player there.

We can't afford to blow our 1st round pick on a developmental DE that will take 2 or 3 years to return the investment, if ever. Melvin Ingram is the only DE I can think of in this class that would be NFL-ready for our system but I doubt he falls to us.  I'm also very reluctant to spend draft picks on any Tampa 2 system players cause they will be useless to us if/when Lovie and Marinelli's considerable shortcomings are finally acknowledged and they are bounced.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 07, 2012, 09:03:33 am
No surprise here, but another step in the right direction.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/07/caleb-hanie-wont-return-to-the-bears/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 07, 2012, 09:54:46 am
Enderle should be launched too.. Orton would be who I would recomend, but I would expect him to get a starting gig.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 07, 2012, 10:19:23 am
Emery was largely responsible for the Bears drafting Rex Grossman.  Who may also be available in FA.

Not sayin, just sayin... 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 07, 2012, 10:20:08 am
+1. Get Kyle if possible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 07, 2012, 10:24:06 am
Orton won't want to come back to Chicago, especially to be a backup.

Not to mention the McCaskeys have always been notoriously cheap when it comes to budgeting for backup QBs and Orton's not gonna come back to Chicago for the weather.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 07, 2012, 10:30:25 am
I recall Orton asked for his release when Cutler got hurt SO he could come to Chicago. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 07, 2012, 10:36:07 am
Right but the dynamics have changed since then.

At the point Orton asked to be released from the Broncos he would have had the starting gig for the rest of the season with the Bears, who were arguably the only playoff-caliber team where he could have landed. But assuming Cutler is good-to-go by training camp he is the #1.  No competition and no debate.

If Orton wants to come back with the clear understanding he won't be the starter (and won't be making starters money), then yes by all means. But I'd be really surprised if that's where his head is at.

Personally I think the Chiefs are fools for not signing Orton long-term and allowing him to compete with that POS Cassell for the starting job down there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 07, 2012, 11:09:01 am
Interesting...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-smith-dines-with-wr-prospect-hill-20120307,0,2184034.story

This kid has stud written all over him, but he is very raw.  He would be the most physically gifted WR on our roster from Day 1 but how soon could he contribute?  I'd feel a lot better about spending a high draft pick on a WR if we actually had coaches that could, you know, develop WRs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 07, 2012, 11:14:45 am
Yeah then we'd get back into this garbage that the WR has to be able to play all the WR positions and he'd sit on the bench. Definitely dont want to see that
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 07, 2012, 11:21:04 am
IIRC Jeremy Bates has some experience working with WRs. Seems like the Broncos had a pretty good crew of pass catchers while Bates and Culter were there.  Since I don't see Cutler requiring a lot of coaching, maybe Bates can do the things Daryl Drake is apparently incapable of doing on that front.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 07, 2012, 11:25:15 am
Perhaps the Bears would think about adding Hill to the mix and a veteran in free agency.

Not at #19 I wouldnt. Now were he to slip into round 2 I would do that, get a veteran and draft Hill in the 2nd round.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 07, 2012, 11:32:18 am
Hill won't last to our 2nd round pick.

Dude is 6'4 220 and ran a sub 4.4.  Raw or not, that kind of talent doesn't drop out of the Top 40 unless there are serious character concerns of which I've seen none on Hill. 

It would make me sick if a stud like that wound up on a team like the Patriots, but they are exactly the kind of team with the luxury of doing something like that at the bottom of the 1st.  Rich get richer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 07, 2012, 11:37:37 am
If you got Jackson and Hill at #19 you wouldnt get a starting LT in the draft, no way.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 08, 2012, 11:28:28 am
I found several things of interest in Pompei's maibag:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-120307-chicago-bears-pompei-mailbag,0,340519.story

Given how hard it is to get good, starting offensive tackles in free agency, should the Bears draft an OLT in the first round and use free agency to upgrade at WR and DE? If not, who will be the Bears swing tackle in 2012? -- Paul Taylor; Chandler, Ariz.

If a left tackle who is an excellent value is available at 19, I'd have no problem if the Bears selected him. I don't suspect that will be the case, however. There probably are three offensive tackles worth taking that high -- Matt Kalil of Southern Cal, Riley Reiff of Iowa and Jonathan Martin of Stanford. My hunch is all three will be off the board by the time the Bears pick, and better values will be available at other positions. The Bears' swing tackle in 2012 very well could be Chris Williams, or, if Williams wins a starting offensive tackle job, the swing tackle could be Webb. her way, at this point it looks like Williams is moving back to tackle.

That means that there is an opening at LG. Nicks? Probably Spencer or E. Williams. I think Louis has RG locked up. I sure hope a LT is available at 19, but I wouldnt be shocked if the Bears went after Grubbs and plug him in at LG with C. Williams manning LT, not that I think thats such a good move.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 12:10:50 pm
That means that there is an opening at LG. Nicks? Probably Spencer or E. Williams. I think Louis has RG locked up. I sure hope a LT is available at 19, but I wouldnt be shocked if the Bears went after Grubbs and plug him in at LG with C. Williams manning LT, not that I think thats such a good move.

Quite honestly, I think this is how our OL situation is gonna play out.

1) We'll sign the best available FA OG for the price we're willing to pay (which probably rules out Nicks but could still get us Grubbs), and plug him in at LG.

2) Chris Williams will compete with J'Marcus Webb at LT and the loser will go to the bench as our swing sub.  Emery had nothing to do with drafting either of these guys so he has absolutely no vested interest in keeping both of them on the field as was the case with Angelo.  If one of those guys is not one of our 5 best O-Linemen, he's gonna get sat down.

3) The starting C, RG and RT will be Garza, Louis and Carimi.

4) Chris Spencer will be the top backup at both C and G

5) One of our 3rd round draft picks will go the best available OL, who could either be a RT to give us insurance for Carimi, an OG who could challenge Edwin Williams for the 8th spot, or possibly even a C who could be developed as the successor to Garza (although the C class this year is pretty weak)

Then our 1st round draft pick will go to either a WR (hopefully a big guy, not Wright), or the best available DE or CB...  Mercilus quite possibly, maybe Melvin Ingram or Dre Kirkpatrick if they fall.

Many of us would like to see more radical moves made on the OL (especially at LT) but I think in the real world, it's gonna go down something like what I just spelled out. FA LTs will be slim to none as are the prospects of finding a Day One LT starter with the 19th pick. If this group completely fails in Tice's more OL-friendly system, then in 2013 I could see Emery blowing up the whole unit and starting from scratch but I think the carryovers from the last couple of seasons will get one more year to show they can get it done in a more complimentary scheme.   

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 08, 2012, 12:32:34 pm
That sounds about right. And I have serious doubts the Bears are successful at getting Colston or Jackson. I kinda expect a FA DE and maybe a CB. I dont believe the Bears are sold on Jennings. 19 will probably be Hill not that I believe he has enough experience to be a day one starter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 01:02:37 pm
Agreed on Hill.  He is a phenomenal talent with all the upside in the world and would be the most physically gifted WR the Bears have ever had by a wide margin.  But given his current level of development I think it's delusional to think drafting him alone would solve our WR problems from Day One.

OTOH if he were paired with a solid FA WR acquisition so that we could deploy him in selective situations and he didn't have to be "the guy" right away, it would be a much better situation.  But that goes against my philosophy of having your 1st round pick start from Day One so I'm kind of torn on him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 01:15:51 pm
Re the OL situation...  if upgrading LG really is the key but we can't get one of the top FA OGs, the other option would be to switch our FA sights to the defensive side of the ball and then draft OG Cordy Glenn at 19.  He is the consensus 2nd best interior OL in the draft (to DeCastro) and is a mammoth dude who some believe could even cover at RT in the NFL if necessary.  He's the kind of guy Tice would absolutely love to get his hands on.

There is also some speculation about the Bears breaking the bank to sign Mario Williams in FA but man...  that would be the most expensive DE tandem in the history of the world and I'm not sure we'd get the return on that investment that a lot of people might think.   And Williams would be so expensive that we'd have nothing left for a WR, a backup QB or pretty much anybody else.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 08, 2012, 01:17:39 pm
Even as raw as Hill is, dont you think he would be the best WR we currently have? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 08, 2012, 01:19:11 pm
The Williams/Peppers combo sure is fun to think about though. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 08, 2012, 01:21:09 pm
Hill really has my interest peaked.
He has impressed in all his workouts, his biggest problem was the scheme his team ran in college.
Two of his predecessors have done well in the NFL also which tells us they are being taught right by the coaches.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 01:22:22 pm
Even as raw as Hill is, dont you think he would be the best WR we currently have? 

He would be the most talented, by far.  As far as the best WR, that would still be Earl Bennett at least at the outset.

Hill strikes me as the type of guy that at least in the early going, you'd probably have to limit to specific plays or packages, and then as he builds confidence in his game and rapport with Cutler, you could start using him in more and more situations.  He's a guy with all the tools to be a #1 but I don't think his game as a whole is there yet.

There are also some questions about Hill's hands and with a guy that throws fireballs like Cutler, you definitely don't want to discount those concerns.  OTOH I heard Hill had the best highlight reel catch of anyone at the combine, so who knows?

The other thing to consider about Hill is that Georgia Tech WRs block a LOT.  So to the extent that's part of Tice's scheme that could be a significant value-add.  Tice knows a little bit about utlizing freakishly talented but raw WRs from his days with Moss and the Vikings... so if he sees Hill as a Randy Moss who's willing to go over the middle and block on top of that, I'm sure he'd sign-off on drafting Hill 100%.

Of course knowing the Bears luck, the fact that we're all talking about him probably means he will be taken by the Chargers.. at 18.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 08, 2012, 01:30:50 pm
Bears need to target this Martin kid out of Stanford.  If the Bears move up from 19 to 15 it will cost them their own 3rd round pick.  But if they have to move up to around 13 it will cost them the Carolina 3rd rounder plus later pick(s).  Anything higher than #13 and it will cost you the #2 - don't want to do that.

If you get Martin you forget about O-line in free agency and the early part of the draft.  I don't see why we need to upgrade guard.  Bears ran the ball pretty well all season - with all 3 backs doing well behind a make shift line.  Pass protection up the middle wasn't an issue either.  Problem was with Webb at LT and a guard playing RT.  With Carimi and rook Martin and Webb as swing - problem solved.  And you have the 2 Williams', Louis, and Spencer to battle it out for the 2 guard spots.

With picks left in round 2 and 3, you can target a WR and DE.  Later picks target CB, LB and possibly another O-lineman, and safety.

Leave TE alone - let's see what Davis can do.  The backup is solid and there's 2 youngsters that can battle for the #3 spot.

In free agency, Jackson is the prize.  Colston has issues too, but he's better than anything we got and might be the consolation prize.  I like Robinson out of Dallas - but I don't think he's a #1.

If there's more free agency money - target a CB to take Jennings spot and possibly another WR (or two).

I hate giving up the 3rd but Mike Adams doesn't look to be the answer in the draft and you rarely find good LTs in free agency.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 01:41:01 pm
The thing with Martin is that the scouting reports on him are all over the map. Some reports say yeah, this is the 2nd best OT in the draft after Kalil, a guy who can start at LT right away, he did a great job keeping Andrew Luck clean at Stanford, etc.  Other scouts say he's a tremendous run blocker but struggles with speed rushers and because of that he may be a better fit at RT or at least, may need a year or two there before moving over to the blind side.

Here are a couple links:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=42590

http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012jmartin.php

I guess if we're looking at trading one or possibly both of our 3rd round picks to move up for this guy, I'd want to see a little more consensus on his viability as a LT right out of the gate.  And then I'd be hoping he can stay healthy. 

Given the choice between trading up with one of our 3rds to get Martin, or staying at 19 and taking Hill would be about a horse apiece, IMO. Either of those guys would help our team, but in different ways.  Martin would probably help us more from Day One (assuming he could handle the speed rush), but if Hill were to maximize his talents he very likely would be the bigger impact player long-term.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 02:01:41 pm
Pass protection up the middle wasn't an issue either. 

Actually, at times it was.  Cutler had to take off running or throw the ball away cause he couldn't step up in the pocket to avoid the edge rush.  And blitz pickups were spotty, to put it kindly.

There's another way to look at trading up for Martin...  if he winds up doing well at LT from Day One and all it took was the 3rd rounder from Carolina to move up for him, then in effect we traded Greg Olsen for a starting LT.  I don't think too many Bears fans would squawk at that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 08, 2012, 02:16:01 pm

First of all, I don't know where Martin should be rated.  But most mocks have him going before our pick #19.  So I assume that's where his value is.  I'm not a scout.  Of course the Bears can sit on their ass and wait for a quality LT to fall in the lap at 19 like they did with Chris Williams when they should have gone after Clady. 

Or maybe this year they can get some balls and move up and draft a guy who can play the position.   LT is probably one of the positions that IF you see a guy you can get who can play you go get him.  Now if he's not worthy of a bit of a trade up then we can settle for a Mike Adams (and go into the season with 3 RTs) or draft one of the big WRs or a DE.

I'm almost willing to stick with Webb another season - I'm probably his biggest fan here, but if there's a chance to get a quality upgrade at the LT spot - I'd be on it.

Actually, at times it was.  Cutler had to take off running or throw the ball away cause he couldn't step up in the pocket to avoid the edge rush.  And blitz pickups were spotty, to put it kindly.


Hard to criticize the interior line when the tackles were struggling.  Not to mention how many games did we play with our first string guards?  Put Louis at RG, and put Edwin or Chris Williams or Spencer at LG and I'll be happy with group with Garza at C. 

Are they pro-bowl?  Not a chance.  But we have bigger problems on offense that need to be addressed more than chasing after some FA guard that wants the biggest freakin' contract in the NFL.


Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 08, 2012, 02:44:47 pm
I wouldn't give our interior OL too much praise. Forte still can't get a 3rd and short and that is mostly because he gets hit in the backfield.
We seem to do best on misdirection and plays where the guards pull. I would love to have some hogs up front where 3rd and 1 and we know it is in the bag instead of having to wonder if we should throw.

Thinking about it, if we could get Jackson in FA and use one third to trade up to get Martin in the 1st and get Hill in the 2nd that would be a big win for our offense. We might have to use our other 3rd to move up from our 2nd to get Hill.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 02:45:22 pm
But we have bigger problems on offense that need to be addressed more than chasing after some FA guard that wants the biggest freakin' contract in the NFL.

Agreed. If we're going to spend huge FA dollars it's probably better spent at WR or possibly DE than at OG.

The only way a substantial expenditure for OG could be rationalized would be as a "force multiplier" that somehow makes our LT position significantly better through a domino effect.  But if we want a better LT, the far more logical approach is to simply acquire a better LT, whatever it takes to do that.

That all being said, when it comes right down to it I think Webb or Chris Williams is going to be our starting LT this year.  Not what I would want, but I think it's what's gonna happen.  Unless Emery is thinking a lot bigger than I give him credit for.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 02:51:24 pm
Thinking about it, if we could get Jackson in FA and use one third to trade up to get Martin in the 1st and get Hill in the 2nd that would be a big win for our offense. We might have to use our other 3rd to move up from our 2nd to get Hill.

This may be the best scenario I've heard yet.  VJax on one side at 6'5 and Hill on the other at 6'4...  both with speed...  Bennett working the slot and Forte as the safety valve with Martin shoring up the blindside.  Now that's a lineup you can put on the field and have a fighting chance of keeping up with the Packers and Lions.

The problem is I don't think Hill is gonna fall into the 2nd.  He's the kind of guy a team like the Pats would take in the bottom of the 1st just to keep him away from anybody else. The Niners WRs didn't get it done down the stretch so that would be another very likely landing spot for him. And even if Hill does fall into the 2nd, the Vikings own the 3rd pick in the 2nd round so there's one potential trade-up partner you can scratch off the list right there.  In fact I could very easily see the Vikings taking Hill themselves with their 2nd round pick and then we've really got problems.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 08, 2012, 03:10:54 pm
It would be a pretty disappointing offseason if something positive didn't happen to the Oline, whether via FA or draft. It's been such a huge sore spot for fans and the team alike. But I really hope they don't give the bank away trying to get it upgraded. It's a fine line balancing act. Not sure I like moving up to get a tackle. We have alot of other needs, too, with Angie sucking our depth dry with his horrid drafting....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 08, 2012, 03:18:06 pm
our most important need this offseason is to keep Cutler healthy.
Without Cutler the rest doesn't matter.
If that is getting a stud WR so he can get the ball out faster or getting a stud OL to keep defenders off of him we have to do one and it would be great if we can do both.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 03:22:51 pm
The OL is an issue no question but in my mind we are in far worse shape at WR.

Roy Williams - useless.  Not sure why he hasn't been released already.
Johnny Knox - likely won't play this year, maybe never again.
Earl Bennett - best WR on the roster but only 6' tall; would be the #3 on a premier team
Devin Hester - enough already
Dane Sanzenbacher - wouldn't be on most teams' rosters

I mean really, look at that lineup and let it sink in. That is not a viable NFL WR corps by any stretch of the imagination.

IMO, if we don't do anything to the OL but upgrade the WRs, we can compete for the playoffs.  We might not go deep but we would at least be in the hunt. OTOH, without a significant upgrade over Roy Williams and a viable replacement for Knox -- at minimum -- there is very little Cutler will be able to do even behind a better OL. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 08, 2012, 03:37:24 pm
we don't have to release Roy, he is a FA.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 08, 2012, 04:16:58 pm
Agreed on Hill.  He is a phenomenal talent with all the upside in the world and would be the most physically gifted WR the Bears have ever had by a wide margin.  But given his current level of development I think it's delusional to think drafting him alone would solve our WR problems from Day One.

OTOH if he were paired with a solid FA WR acquisition so that we could deploy him in selective situations and he didn't have to be "the guy" right away, it would be a much better situation.  But that goes against my philosophy of having your 1st round pick start from Day One so I'm kind of torn on him.

I'm sold on Hill.  I wouldn't have a problem taking him at #19.  I would like to get Quick too in the draft. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 04:27:11 pm
If Jeremy Bates were not with the Bears I would worry that Hill would be wasted draft pick Bears because our WR coach Daryl Drake is not good.

But with Bates and Tice, I think we could find ways to use Hill strategically early on even if he wasn't ready to play full time.  Just the presence of a guy with his skills on the field would have to open things up for Earl Bennett, for example.  And by the end of his rookie season I bet he'd be well on his way to being a true #1 WR.   The physical tools are certainly there.

That being said, even if we drafted Hill I would want to hedge my bets with a proven FA WR as well.  The Knox situation has really mandated that we replace/upgrade two WRs this offseason, not just RoyBoy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 08, 2012, 04:28:53 pm
You have that much confidence in Tice?  I don' t know.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 04:30:53 pm
IIRC Tice did OK with a raw, tall, fast rookie named Randy Moss.  And that was with a QB who wasn't half as good as Cutler.

Just sayin...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 08, 2012, 04:36:14 pm
Oh he was the WR coach in Minny now.  Don't think so.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 08, 2012, 04:40:01 pm
Thinking about it, if we could get Jackson in FA and use one third to trade up to get Martin in the 1st and get Hill in the 2nd that would be a big win for our offense. We might have to use our other 3rd to move up from our 2nd to get Hill.

This may be the best scenario I've heard yet.  VJax on one side at 6'5 and Hill on the other at 6'4...  both with speed...  Bennett working the slot and Forte as the safety valve with Martin shoring up the blindside.  Now that's a lineup you can put on the field and have a fighting chance of keeping up with the Packers and Lions.

The problem is I don't think Hill is gonna fall into the 2nd.  He's the kind of guy a team like the Pats would take in the bottom of the 1st just to keep him away from anybody else. The Niners WRs didn't get it done down the stretch so that would be another very likely landing spot for him. And even if Hill does fall into the 2nd, the Vikings own the 3rd pick in the 2nd round so there's one potential trade-up partner you can scratch off the list right there.  In fact I could very easily see the Vikings taking Hill themselves with their 2nd round pick and then we've really got problems.

But I ask just how high that other 3rd of our plus our 2nd gets us? Could it get us into the 1st round high enough to get us Hill?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 04:44:41 pm
So basically you're saying figure out a way to leverage the first four picks of our draft (the 1, 2, and both 3rds) into two players:  Martin and Hill.

That would be a trick, but I don't think it's impossible. It would take some world-class deal-making by Emery and more than a little luck.  But if we could pull it off, it wouldn't upset me.  Of course we have needs beyond LT and WR, but those two needs are really big (thanks largely to the incompetence of our former GM)... so if it takes 4 draft picks to nail those two positions, I'm for it.  As long as both those guys pan out, of course.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 08, 2012, 04:49:59 pm
Well Martin is who I think we should have our eyes set on. The receiver I am open with. Hill sounds like he is a climber. I just dont see somebody gambling on a WR that raw and overpaying except say the Pats. Thats how they stock talent
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 04:59:03 pm
If we don't land V-Jax or Colston in FA we are almost going to be forced to go WR with our 1st round pick.  Or hold our breath, hope a guy like Alshon Jeffery falls to us in the 2nd and that he's not a total flake.

We cannot realistically expect to contend for a playoff spot with the WRs currently on our roster. With RoyBoy being a bust we have no size, and with Knox likely out for the season we have no speed beyond Hester. No offense scheme can overcome a talent deficiency of that magnitude. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 08, 2012, 05:43:13 pm
It's interesting that in Pompeii's Mailbag article today he went to lengths to raise concerns about Colston:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-120307-chicago-bears-pompei-mailbag,0,340519.story

(Colston question is the 4th one down in the article).

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the Bears have targeted Colston and are directing the Chicago media to try and talk down his value to throw other teams off the trail. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 08, 2012, 10:04:28 pm
Thats a strong possibility about Colston. That was one of the other gems in that article I posted. He hinted the Bears have targeted VJax. I think we have as much of a chance at VJax as a snowball does in h-e-l-l.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 08, 2012, 10:13:41 pm
So I'm hearing the Bears are to offer 8 Mil to V. Jackson but th Redskins will offer 12.

I say 8-9 is about right, 12 would be the usual Dan Snyder over-reach.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 08, 2012, 10:29:55 pm
And at this point who does he have to throw to him if he goes there?  Rex Grossman.  Hell, even if he gets Manning Snyder can't resist phucking around with the team.  A fantasy owner with lots of money.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 09, 2012, 05:38:15 am
Yep, they'll suck as long as he's around..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 09, 2012, 08:06:50 am
But is a player going to pass on the extra $4million to stay in SD or go to Chicago?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 09, 2012, 08:12:37 am
Well, dollars being equal, if the option is between catching passes from Jay Cutler and catching passes from Rex Grossman, I think that decision is cut and dried.

Now if the option is between Jay Cutler and RGIII, that's not such a clear advantage.

Snyder and the McCaskeys both have plenty of warts as owners so it's a horse apiece there.  The Bears have the better team but the Skins are in a weaker conference.

In other words, it will come down to dollars.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 09, 2012, 08:27:58 am
If we came out of the draft with Martin and Hill I would be doing back flips.  But if we lost both 3rd rounders, that is where the current staff got lots of players.  Well that is where Angelo lucked out I should say.  I wonder what it would take, maybe a second from next year along with this years 2nd to move up for Hill.  Just thinking, it would save 1 3rd rounder. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 09, 2012, 08:32:48 am
That's an interesting thought.

Reportedly at the end of his tenure Angelo was under a prohibition against trading future years' draft picks. This was after the Gaines Adams debacle. I wonder if Emery is under the same restriction or if he has greater liberty on that point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 09, 2012, 08:43:19 am
That would give us 3 picks in the first 3 rounds, hopefully we could score 3 starters.  Plus it saves our first for next year.  I wonder how much a second next year would move you up, and even if Hill would be available at that spot. 

Of course we could go all out, trade next years first and move up for Hill, but that seems maybe a little high. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 09, 2012, 08:44:30 am
Oh, and one other thing, even though Tice is the OC, and Bates is the passing OC, Hill will still be in meetings and taught by the mighty Darryl Drake.  Fingers crossed the other two guys give him some outside pointers on how to play WR.  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 09, 2012, 09:02:03 am
Yeah I didn't mean yesterday that Tice would be Hill's position coach. 

I meant more that as the OC (or co-OC with Bates or however they work that out), they would be able to at least design some plays around Hill's talents and mask his limitations.  And then as he becomes more polished and comfortable with Cutler, expand his role in the offense accordingly. That way he could start contributing early on rather than sitting the bench for two years learning all three WR positions and a zillion plays and patterns like Martz would have had him doing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 09, 2012, 09:08:11 am
Of course we could go all out, trade next years first and move up for Hill, but that seems maybe a little high.

I dont' see Emery getting that radical.  If he were desperate to save Lovie's job (which could and should require a playoff appearance this year), then I could see it but it's a virtual certainty he'll be with the Bears longer than Lovie so I think he will be taking a longer term view with regard to our personnel.

Which is also why I would be very surprised to see him draft any defensive players whose skills couldn't translate outside of Lovie's defensive scheme. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 09, 2012, 09:29:39 am
Only a few more days to go till FA begins. Needless to say it will be interesting, just to see if we can dicern some sort of game plan out of the Bears. Right now I dont see a clear plan
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 09, 2012, 09:44:16 am
my expectation is that we will go pretty hard after either a FA WR or OL and sign a few other JAGs.
I also expect in the draft we will sit where we are or trade down in most cases.
The major exception is if Martin falls a little, I can see Emery trying to move up to get him but I doubt we give up more than one of our 3rds to move up in the first.

A GM with a scouting background knows that the more guys you can get late first and 2nd round is where the value is.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 09, 2012, 09:49:25 am
We better not trade down too far, and we damn well better get a good reward for doing it if we do.

If we lose out on Martin or Hill when we could have had them at 19 I will be muy ****ed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 10, 2012, 09:18:41 am
http://www.csnchicago.com/football-chicago-bears/bears-talk/Manning-offers-can-benefit-Bears?blockID=666540&feedID=10330

Another way this helps the Bears is all the teams bidding for Manning are not going to be able to spend a lot of money on other free agents at least at the start of free agency.  If they have a huge contract offer out to Manning they can not spend that money on other big name free agents until they know what his decision is.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 10, 2012, 09:34:51 am
Another thing in our favor which influences things is the Drew Brees situation in New Orleans when he said he wouldnt sign the franchise tag.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 10, 2012, 01:10:35 pm
I heard Biggs today on the Score. He said backup QB was way down the list of priorities.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 11, 2012, 11:51:37 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0311-pompei-bears-nfl--20120310,0,992027.column

I have to agree with Pompei.  I would go hard after Mario Williams.  With him and Peppers on the same line our D would be a top 5 defense.  I would then spend the first on a WR and get a second tier FA WR. 

I think that would improve the Bears more then any other move.  Williams is much younger then Jackson and Jackson has two strikes against him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 11, 2012, 01:02:47 pm
If we got Williams and Martin falls to us in the draft, we would need to pick up a WR in the second and in FA.  That sure would be exciting though. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 11, 2012, 01:38:00 pm
Somehow I just see a combination of Mario Williams and Julius Peppers being less than the sum of its parts.  With the way offenses are run now you can just do a bunch of quick throws and short drops and totally neutralize a DL no matter how talented they are.

With our offense in such crying need of OL talent and playmakers, taking on another bajillion dollar DE seems like a real luxury. 

It also reinforces the message that has been sent to Cutler his entire career here, which is that the Bears are still all about defense and don't give a damn about helping their QB do well.  Anything that does not directly help Jay Cutler should not be a priority of Emery's... at least this year. 

Pompeii is just a shill for Lovie so of course he's gonna say we should blow our whole FA wad on defense. In reality, having 2 All-World DEs and a p*ss-poor offense won't get us anywhere in today's NFL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 11, 2012, 02:07:21 pm
You could still sign a free agent WR and use at least the top half of the draft on offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 11, 2012, 02:18:07 pm
http://www.rrstar.com/sports/bears/x453927420/Matt-Trowbridge-Bears-can-improve-defense-by-fixing-offense?zc_p=0

This guy agrees with you yapper.

Personally I will be happy as long as they spend the money to bring in talent.  I think they need to address both sides of the ball. 

What this guy does not mention though is that the Bears offense was rolling until Cutler got hurt.  Then it was downright terrible which is why last years number look so bad.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 11, 2012, 02:57:07 pm
Interesting article.  I'm glad someone is finally coming out and saying what no one else seems to have the guts to, which is that the Chicago Bears defense is no longer Top-10 caliber and is no way capable of carrying the team any longer (1-5 without Cutler last season speaks to that).

As for our O last year pre-Cutler's injury, they had some decent games but I wouldn't say it was exactly rolling.  We were getting superhuman efforts by Jay Cutler and solid 2-dimensional play from Matt Forte and that was IT. Our WRs were garbage pretty much all year long, our TEs were a non-factor and our OL was a game-to-game proposition.  Plus you have to assume Johnny Knox will not be back this year so that's a guy that must at minimum, be replaced with a player of equal caliber.

That being said...  if for some reason V Jax, Colston, and any LT worth naming never even hit the market... and it game down to paying ridiculous coin for Mario Williams or just sitting on the money...  then yeah, sign Mario and hope he can be a difference maker and that Tice and Bates can somehow work magic with whatever offensive guys we could pick up in the draft.  But for the amount of money we'd have tied up in those 2 DEs our D had better be averaging 7 or 8 sacks a game and a ton of non-sack pressures to justify that investment, and I just don't see that happening.  It's pretty easy for a decent OC with just a marginally mobile QB to scheme around a pass rush anymore. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 11, 2012, 04:31:10 pm
Knox's agent says he'll be ready mid July, which is before training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 11, 2012, 05:46:54 pm
That would be awesome, but I still have serious concerns about Knox' mental state.  He said himself he came within a hairs breadth of being paralyzed. I know if I were in his shoes I'd be scared as hell to get back out there.

Defnitely hope he can keep contributing to the team, but I would bring him back very slowly.  Assuming he does OK in training camp, maybe I limit him to return duties for the first few games and then start working him back in at WR midseason.

There's also the question of how much speed that injury will wind up costing him.  I can't imagine a "procedure" of that magnitude not having some negative side effects. At his size, if he's gone from being a 4.3 guy to a 4.6 guy he doesn't do us much good and you have to look at if that roster space would be better used on someone else.  Hoping for the best for him, though.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 11, 2012, 08:31:58 pm
According to the Union-Tribune San Diego, "it is believed" the Redskins and Bears will be Vincent Jackson's most ardent suitors when free agency opens at 4PM ET on Tuesday.
 Per Chargers beat writer Kevin Acee, the Bolts are "seemingly resigned" to the fact that Jackson will sign elsewhere because of his purported contract demands. Both the Redskins and Bears have a more desperate need and appear to be willing to spend more than San Diego. Acee goes so far as to suggests Washington "will do almost whatever it takes to get Jackson." Observed one source monitoring the V-Jax situation closely, "He’s going to get more than you or I could ever imagine he would." Source: Union-Tribune San Diego Mar 11 - 8:12 PM

I don't see the Bears out bidding the Redskins for him nor should they.  I highly doubt Jackson will be a Chicago bear.  The Redskins will send the price through the roof.  I would rather spend the money elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 11, 2012, 08:49:11 pm
Yup, me too. I am not interested in a bidding war with Snyder or say a Jerry Jones.  And while the Bears may have close to 30 Mill to spend like 7 Mill (?) is already earmarked for Matt Forte. We have too many needs to just blow money and overspend. We've done that before too  when we got Peppers and those other two shmos
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 11, 2012, 09:01:07 pm
Jackson would be a great addition but not for what he may get from Washington.

He's not Larry Fitzgerald.  Probaby not a top 5 receiver. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 11, 2012, 09:24:22 pm
Madison - If there were any throws National Football League coaches and scouts hadn't seen Wisconsin quarterback Russell Wilson make during his Rose Bowl season with the Badgers, they were given a full complement Wednesday at the Dave McClain Center.

During the Badgers' annual pro day, where NFL personnel come to work out draft-eligible players, Wilson made every possible throw a pro quarterback has to make.

"All the play-action routes, all the five-step, three-step, seven-step throws that I could possibly make," Wilson said afterward. "I made 63 throws; that covers just about everything you can throw. I just try to show every single team that I can make every throw."

Wilson said he completed 60 of the 63 passes - all thrown with no defenders on the field - and felt he took another step toward showing he's capable of playing in the NFL.

The one thing he wasn't able to do was increase his height to 6-foot, although he did say he was measured at 5-11 on Wednesday, which is taller than the 5-10 5/8 he measured at the Senior Bowl and combine. Wilson is going to have to overcome the conventional thought that quarterbacks under 6-foot can't play in the NFL.

He's hoping that teams will make their judgment on his game tape more than measurements, but he also feels he has shown the scouts he's capable of making any kind of throw through his combine and pro day performances.

Wilson has been working on his form with former Heisman Trophy winner and NFL veteran quarterback Chris Weinke, who was in attendance Wednesday. Part of what Wilson wants the NFL people to understand is that he played behind a pro-sized offensive line at Wisconsin and didn't have very many passes knocked down.

"The key is finding lanes and delivering the ball on time," he said. "There's not that much of a difference if I was 6-1 or 5-11. You don't really see over guys, you throw through lanes and deliver the ball."

Wilson has a number of things going for him. He's extremely smart, he's fast and he's accurate with his passes. There's nothing wrong with his arm strength and he showed the ability to play both in the shotgun formation and under center during his time at North Carolina State and Wisconsin.

"He's a very impressive fellow, articulate, knowledgeable, confident," said Packers general manager Ted Thompson, who attended the workout. "He projects that confidence. He's going to be a good get for somebody."

Asked what else Wilson had to do to prove himself, Thompson said, "I think you play. This is sort of the warm-ups. The playing comes after he gets selected by a team. He's going to be fine."

A good number of the scouts will have to return to Wisconsin to get a look at center Peter Konz, another of the Badgers' outgoing seniors.

Konz is coming off a dislocated ankle that he played through in the Rose Bowl and has yet to do anything for scouts but bench press and take a medical. Considered the best center in the draft and a probable first-round pick, Konz said he would have to conduct another pro day in April so that the scouts can see him at full strength.

"I'm real close," Konz said. "You can see me itching to get out there. I'm probably 90 percent. I'm just holding back and being smart. The most important thing is my longevity in my career, so when we get into May I'll be able to do camp and I won't reinjure it."

Konz's linemates, guard Kevin Zeitler and tackle Josh Oglesby, went through drills under the watchful eye of Chicago Bears offensive coordinator Mike Tice. They were run through various kinds of running plays and pass protections so that the scouts could see how they move.

Zeitler is trying to improve his stock by showing that he can play guard and center, the latter of which is the position many NFL personnel think is his best. Finishing tied for third among linemen in the bench press at the combine (32 reps), Zeitler began working at center after the Rose Bowl and feels he can play anywhere on the interior.

A graduate of Wisconsin Lutheran High School, Zeitler would love to play for the Packers and he was surprised to find out that Thompson knew who he was when they walked past each other at the combine.

"We kind of like stared each other down and I walked by, and he was like, 'Zeitler, you’re not going to stop and say hi.' So I stopped and said hi."

Another Badger who hoped he made an impression was safety Aaron Henry. Not invited to the combine, Henry has been working all off-season for his pro day opportunity and said he made every movement count.

"I did pretty good," he said. "In my 40 time, I did a (personal best) 4.53. I jumped an all-time high - I jumped 39 ½ (inches) - and when I was down training I was jumping 32, 33s, 34s. I got 16 reps on the bench. I felt like I fared
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 11, 2012, 09:46:42 pm
From profootballfocus.com:

12:37 ESPN Chicago’s Mike Wright tweets that the Bears are looking at David Hawthorne and could face competition from Detroit. As a player who can play any linebacker spot (other than outside in a 3-4) Hawthorne should have plenty of people interested, even if his 2011 season was probably his weakest since bursting onto the scene in 2009. However, with a +8.8 grade you know you’re getting a good player, who has proven he can handle an every down role. If the Bears can persuade him to take a two down role at a sensible price that could be excellent for them, but may also prove a little bit of a waste of Hawthorne’s ability.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/10/countdown-to-free-agency-live-react/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 11, 2012, 10:04:18 pm
He would be a 3 down LBer in Chicago.  He would either beat out Roach or replace Briggs if he causes problems again.  I am guessing they want him to be Urlachers replacement eventually.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 11, 2012, 10:41:36 pm
LB should be the last position we're looking at. That doesn't make any sense at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 11, 2012, 11:05:40 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/11/team-by-team-cap-space-as-of-march-11/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 08:17:03 am
Seeing some people calling for us to make a play for Mike Wallace from the Steelers.

Dumb move. #1 he's only 6' 200 lbs... same size as Bennett...  not what we need.  #2 he'd cost us our 1st round pick to the Steelers. 

1st round draft pick and huge salary dollars for a 6' WR feels like a bad investment to me. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 09:24:39 am
Interesting that Tice was working out the Wisconsin O-Linemen.  I know he has strong connections with that program.

Wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Bears grab another Badger O-Lineman at some point in the draft.  Konz has some serious injury issues and would be a big reach at 19 so I don't see it being him... but if Zeitler, for example, falls to the 3rd round, who knows?  A guy who can upgrade Edwin Williams as backup OG straightaway while learning the ropes at C for a couple of years could make a lot of sense.

As for Russel Wilson, he's career backup material at best and warrants no higher than a 5th round pick IMO.  Pat Haden and Joe Theismann got it done at 5'11 but that was quite a few years ago already.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 09:55:19 am
Judging by this article it almost looks like the Bears are 3rd in a 3-horse race for V Jax

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/bucs-bears-redskins-all-look-poised-for-a-run-at-vincent-jackson/

Guess we have to start thinking about trading up for Floyd...   I really don't want to bring in some 2nd-tier FA like Laurent Robinson or Robert Meachem who's never been a true #1 guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 12, 2012, 09:58:29 am
Interesting that Tice was working out the Wisconsin O-Linemen.  I know he has strong connections with that program.

Wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Bears grab another Badger O-Lineman at some point in the draft.  Konz has some serious injury issues and would be a big reach at 19 so I don't see it being him... but if Zeitler, for example, falls to the 3rd round, who knows?  A guy who can upgrade Edwin Williams as backup OG straightaway while learning the ropes at C for a couple of years could make a lot of sense.

As for Russel Wilson, he's career backup material at best and warrants no higher than a 5th round pick IMO.  Pat Haden and Joe Theismann got it done at 5'11 but that was quite a few years ago already.

GB could be interested in Wilson to develop as back-up for Rodgers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 12, 2012, 10:02:27 am
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 12, 2012, 10:45 AM EDT
 
Getty Images
With several wide receivers about to become unrestricted free agents, Vincent Jackson appears to be pulling ahead of the pack in the race to see which one of them can receive the most lucrative offer.
 
Three teams with plenty of money to spend — the Buccaneers, Bears and Redskins — all reportedly have identified Jackson as a high priority. That has to be wonderful news to Jackson and his agent, considering that the Buccaneers are $42.7 million under the salary cap, the Redskins are $31.1 million under and the Bears are $22.6 million under.
 
We noted yesterday that the Redskins are willing to break the bank for Jackson, Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times reports today that the Bears are serious suitors for Jackson but the Buccaneers have the inside track right now.
 
In other words, three teams with loads of salary cap space are going to try to out-bid each other. It’s good to be Vincent Jackson right now.
 
It’s also surprising the extent to which Jackson’s baggage doesn’t seem to be an issue. Jackson is 29 years old and already has seven seasons of wear and tear on his body? Doesn’t matter. Jackson was often an unhappy camper in San Diego? Doesn’t matter. Jackson was suspended three games in 2010 after his second drunk driving conviction? Doesn’t matter. Teams are so enamored with his 18.4 yards a catch and nine touchdowns last season that they’re willing to overlook those issues.
 
So Jackson is about to get paid. With free agency starting at 4 p.m. Eastern tomorrow, Jackson could be ready to sign a lucrative contract at 4:01.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 12, 2012, 10:56:16 am
Good for the young man, I'm truely happy for him.  Time to out and celibrate VJ!  Again.  And get tested.  Again.  And fail.  Again.  Bears should keep the money in the wallet on this one.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 12, 2012, 11:06:37 am
Yep. It would be foolish to get in a bidding war for him
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 12, 2012, 11:13:26 am
LB should be the last position we're looking at. That doesn't make any sense at all.


About the only postition I can think of that would be "the last position we should be looking at", would be starting QB, then RB. Other than those two positions, the whole team needs help. Urlacher's starting to show his age, Roach I just can't get excited about, and Briggs is always whining he wants more money.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 11:20:43 am
Hawthorne, meh.

Looks like Lovie is still calling the personnel shots in Halas Hall, and Cutler is still getting the shaft.

Only duh LovieBears would be looking at LBs when they have two Pro Bowl LBs on the roster but not a single viable NFL WR or LT.

The only way signing Hawthorne makes any sense is if we then turn around and trade Briggs for a 2012 1st round pick.  Which ain't gonna happen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 12, 2012, 11:31:32 am
If we are trading up in the first round I think I would prefer it to be for OT Martin from Stanford. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 11:45:00 am
Hill the WR will not make it out of the 1st round. Nor will Floyd. Just sayin that if either of those is the guy we want at 19 and they're there, that's the only shot we get at them.

Does anyone know when South Carolina's Pro Day is?  That's the last chance other than a private workout that Emery & Co. will have to check out Alshon Jeffery.  He's the real wild card in the WR draft scenario right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 12, 2012, 11:49:10 am
Yup, I sure wouldnt be trading up for Floyd, If its WR your after and VJax is too expensive (Duh) I'd switch gears and go after Colston. The only worthwhile player to move up in the draft for is Martin.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 12:08:41 pm
What's really complicating things for us at the WR position is the uncertainty around whether Knox will be in the mix because he's our field stretcher.

In other words, a scenario where Knox comes back this year at full speed, allows us to pick up a guy who's big and has good hands, but might not be a burner. I.e. Colston. OTOH if Knox is lost to us, then we need both size AND speed and that means either finding one truly gifted WR (V Jackson, Steven Hill), OR pick up Colston for his size and then drafting a smaller speed guy (like that guy out of Arkansas) who could probably be had in the 2nd or even 3rd round.

I'm not even figuring Hester into the WR equation because I'm assuming / hoping that Tice will be putting an end to that madness.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 12, 2012, 01:01:07 pm
No way do I count on Knox.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 01:03:35 pm
No way do I count on Knox.

That's why I'm figuring we're almost obligated to add 2 WRs this offseason, not just 1.

In all reality it may take two offseasons to get our WR corps fully up to NFL standard but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make significant progress this year already.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 12, 2012, 01:58:44 pm
It will help to have Forte back as an outlet. I agree though, I think we have to add 2 receivers..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 12, 2012, 01:59:16 pm
I would say even with Knox we still need 2 WRs.  Lets just put Hester back where he belongs already. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 02:07:16 pm
Yeah really, if you figure Knox is a no-go and you revert Hester back to returns and only very occasional duty on offense, then you're looking at 3 WRs.

Yikes. 

Like I said, this could take a couple of years worth of solid drafting and FA acquisitions to really get fixed.  And that's just the WR position, to say nothing of the OL.  But we have to at least get a good start on that this year or else Cutler is gonna tell Emery and Philips to take a hike when they start talking contract extension.  He has suffered much under the ineptitude of the Bears mgmt and coaching, and I have to think he's about at the end of his rope with this organization. If he had been on a team like the Cardinals or the Chiefs, playing in a weak division with legitimate playmakers on offense, he could have been to a SuperBowl by now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 02:31:37 pm
We can pass on this guy:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/pierre-garcon-will-be-testing-free-agency/

Dude is only 6' tall, has never had a 1,000-yard season, has never caught more than 6 TDs in a season...  and won't "settle" for $7 mil a year from his home team.   In other words, a #2 WR who wants to be paid like a 1.

Seriously?  No thanks.  If we're gonna pay big bucks for a WR it had better be for a big body with big numbers on his resume.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 12, 2012, 02:34:15 pm
I hope he's not thinking that way. Just getting the TE into some pass patterns would be fantastic, and I believe that Cutler just needs better WRs, not great ones, because he is great. (top 5 in the nfl imo). I mean, look at what he did with what he had.  Did you see some of those windows he was humming the ball thru, between moving bodies? Smaller than a man's head.  Not great ones, just better ones.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 02:53:18 pm
Even a guy like Eddie Royal -- who Cutler played with in Denver -- would be a 10x improvement over anyone we have on the current roster.  And he probably wouldn't break the bank though we would probably need a bigger bodied guy to complement him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 12, 2012, 02:58:21 pm
Assuming he does OK in training camp, maybe I limit him to return duties for the first few games and then start working him back in at WR midseason.

That's where he was almost paralyzed doing return duties.  Think that would be wise?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 03:37:20 pm
I thought Knox' injury happened on a reception.  As I recall he caught the ball, got stripped, and was injured going for the recovery.

Coulda been a return though.

In any event I think it will be known by training camp whether he has a shot at playing this year.  My money says he spends the season on the PUP list, despite what his agent may be saying.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 03:42:58 pm
Wow...  this has the potential to knock the Skins out of the V Jax sweepstakes, I would think.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/league-strips-cowboys-redskins-of-millions-in-cap-space/

Assuming that happens I see three possible scenarios, from most to least likely.

1) He returns to the Chargers

2) He signs with the Bears

3) He signs with Tampa

Snyder being forced out of the bidding for V Jax could be huge, but there are other things than just dollars at play in his case I think.  Bears have the better QB, but Bucs have a better field, better weather and they are in a more winnable division.  Chargers have all of the above which is why it wouldn't surprise me to see him wind up back there after all is said and done. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 12, 2012, 04:00:11 pm
http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2012/3/12/2865375/cowboys-and-redskins-loss-is-the-chicago-bears-gain
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 12, 2012, 04:00:54 pm
Redskins fans have to be losing it right about now.

The Bears just gained 1.6 million cap space!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 04:13:20 pm
Redskins fans have to be losing it right about now.

Yup.  Sold-out their future for RGIII and now don't have the means to put any talent around him.  Ouch. The first couple years of RGII's career in Washington could wind up looking very much like Cutler's career in Chicago so far.

The Bears just gained 1.6 million cap space!

Good... tack it on to the last best offer we made Forte as up-front guaranteed money, and get a deal done with him already. 

If we can't land at least two good-to-great WRs between now and opening day, we're gonna need #22 healthy and happy for our O to have any chance. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 04:29:45 pm
Hmmm...

- Saints and Rams potentially on the hook for the bounty thing.

- Skins and Cowboys losing cap.

That's some bad mojo comin down on 4 NFC teams right there, any or all of which could potentially be competing with the Bears for a playoff spot. Not to mention all the teams in both conferences spending all that time and money to woo Peyton Manning.  If the Bears can keep their noses clean with the league office, make some good FA pickups, have a great draft and get all their good veterans back healthy, I have to think things are looking up!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 12, 2012, 04:33:33 pm
I thought Knox' injury happened on a reception.  As I recall he caught the ball, got stripped, and was injured going for the recovery.

Coulda been a return though.


My bad.  You're right.  He did make a reception and fumbled.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 04:40:37 pm
I saw my first mock draft that has us taking the WR Hill at 19.

Up till now this same mock had us taking Kendall Wright.

I'm not often for taking developmental prospects in the 1st round, but Hill is a rare combination...  a physical freak who backed up his stellar combine with a solid Pro Day and who also by all accounts is a high character, coachable, "team first" guy (which you've got to be to play WR in the Georgia Tech offense).  As I've said before, he's probably too raw to be a starting #1 from Day One but once he picks up the offense and acclimates to NFL speed... look out. He would put a legitimate "scare factor" into our passing game IF we can harness his talents.  I would want to hedge our bets on him by pairing him with a solid, 2nd tier FA vet though. 

In any event, Hill is much more worthy of the 19 pick than Wright.  Any team that spends a Top 20 draft pick on a 5'10 WR in this day and age deserves to lose and lose often.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 05:26:39 pm
No thanks to this guy.  He's worse than Webb.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/levi-brown-out-in-arizona/

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 12, 2012, 06:48:32 pm
In Chicago, Bears viewed as favorites to land Mario Williams

 Posted by Michael David Smith on March 12, 2012, 7:30 PM EDT
 
Getty Images
Two years ago the Bears made a big move in free agency to land one of the NFL’s most talented pass rushers. And they may now be poised to do it again.
 
With Mario Williams set to become an unrestricted free agent on Tuesday afternoon, the Bears are planning a push to sign him, teaming him up with Julius Peppers in what would give the Bears a pair of outside rushers unmatched by anyone in the NFL.
 
In fact, according to John “Moon” Mullin of CSNChicago.com, multiple NFL sources say the Bears are the favorites to sign Williams, the former No. 1 overall pick of the Texans.
 
The Bears have plenty of cap space and have made clear that they want to improve their pass rush in free agency. There’s no better way to do that than signing Williams.
 
Although Williams suffered a torn pectoral muscle and played just five games last season, he’s expected to be back to full strength and ready to go this year. If he and Peppers are on the same team, the Monsters of the Midway are going to have a fearsome pass rush.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 12, 2012, 08:35:31 pm
Texans cut Eric Winston

 Posted by Michael David Smith on March 12, 2012, 6:50 PM EDT
 
Getty Images
Eric Winston is on the way out in Houston.
 
Winston, an offensive tackle who has started all 16 games for five straight seasons, wrote on Twitter on Monday evening that the Texans informed him they’re letting him go.
 
We noted a week ago that Winston’s $5.5 million base salary made him a candidate to be asked to take a pay cut or restructure his contract, but the Texans’ decision to release him today still comes as a surprise. It was a shock to Winston.
 
“Unfortunately I have bad news,” Winston wrote. “The Texans have decided to release me today. Although it is a surprise, I have nothing but positive memories and great relationships that I have built over the years. While my future seems uncertain, I am confident I will land on my feet. Let me say thank you to Mr. McNair and the whole Texan organization. They have had big role in the player and person I have become. And last but not least to my fans and teammates. You guys are the absolute best! I will miss all of you more than you know.”
 
Now Winston becomes an unrestricted free agent, joining Levi Brown as the second starting offensive tackle to join the free agent market today.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on March 12, 2012, 08:52:28 pm
Definitely some solid type players hitting market with salary cap ramifications starting to play out.  I personally would not mind bringing in servicable OT, LB, S before draft.  The more holes we plug, the more we can leverage draft picks to move up and get some difference makers.

We are so thin at WR, we could pick up two solid players in FA and still have a need to draft a talented young player.  Same could be said at OT.

Also I think wise move looking for LBers, Urlacher is flat out old and Briggs is on downside of prime.  Roach is serviceable but would be a good back up.  Safety needs upgrading.

Mario Williams at DE with a few moves could really make the D special and very exciting to watch.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 12, 2012, 08:56:38 pm
I wouldn't mind getting Mario Williams.  The Bears DO need another pass rusher and he would most certainly fit the bill.

Then in the draft get Hill and a LT in the second round.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on March 12, 2012, 09:15:39 pm
Yes to Mario Williams!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 12, 2012, 09:17:52 pm
Question:  If the Bears get Williams, with Peppers on the other side, how do opposing teams play that line? Quick slants, screens?  So then the Bears will always have what, 8 in the box with the corners on islands? Is this what Lovie is after?  Better draft some all world corners then?  Another question: does the offense get anything or do they starve until Lovie gets launched? I love defense as much as any Bear fan, but this is getting fuucking stupid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 12, 2012, 10:19:55 pm
Getting Mario would be huge, simply huge. I would think it would put greater pressure on the backers though to cover those quick underneath routes that would be used against our line. A very proficient QB would have some success against us, but those who aren't nearly as proficient will suffer greatly. Our line would tear their QB up with Williams and Peppers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 12, 2012, 10:21:47 pm
Fella's, I know it's WAY early but if things play out right, we could have a VERY entertaining season coming up! A very good QB teamed up FINALLY with some wideout talent, a incredible DLine, a improved and deeper Oline. Yea, this could potentially be a very fun season....time will tell.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 12, 2012, 11:24:19 pm
Mario would be ok I guess but a good OC and QB could still overcome that DL and exploit our D. I am much more concerned about our prospects at WR which are not looking good and especially with the Saints trying hard to re sign Colston. At this rate we will have to spend our 1st on a WR and maybe one of our 3rds as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 12, 2012, 11:35:56 pm
You could sign Williams and still get Hill at 19.

I don't see the problem. We all know we need another pass rusher so I don't understand the fuss.  Hell they'll have enough dough to sign Eddie Royal as a FA and the team would have Hill, Royal, and Bennett at the receiver spot.

Second round pick could go LT.

The rest of the rounds could go to best player available.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 13, 2012, 07:55:50 am
I'm not sure a 2nd round LT in this draft will be any better than the 2 first rounders we have taken recently.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 13, 2012, 08:08:47 am
Hill is a developmental player from the reports I've seen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 08:18:08 am
So Mario Williams is worth $10-12 M a year, but Vincent Jackson isn't?  For a Bears team whose current WR corps is Arena League caliber at best?

Not sure I follow that logic.

Anyway, seems to me in any event we should be targeting a big-body WR (6'2 or taller) in FA so that we've got some size on board in case we don't wind up with Hill or Floyd in the draft.  Meachem might fit the bill there.  Eddie Royal at 5'10 185 should be viewed as a potential replacement to Knox and nothing more.  Royal is a hard guy to put a price on...  his rookie season with Cutler he had 91 catches for 980 yards and 5 TDs in 15 games, but the next two years he was very average and this last season he was flat-out terrible -- 19 catches for 155 yards and 1 TD playing 12 games. So he's a guy you definitely wouldn't want to overpay for.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 13, 2012, 08:31:33 am
I think all this screaming and whining WR, WR, WR is getting out of hand and childish. The OL is horrible. How can Cutler get the ball to these all pro WRs when he's on his butt? Sure we need a tall WR, no question. I am not debating that point. But as I've said a million times, football is a game won on the line of scrimage. Cutler needs more time to throw the ball (ie better protection). To be honest I know nothing of those 2 OTs that got cut to know if they are good or whether they play LT or RT but we need OT help. We dont know whether Carimi will ever reach his drafted potential and our LT should be cleanig latrines for a living. I think that getting somebody such as Eric Winston will help us tremendously and may keep Cutler healthy this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 08:39:46 am
To be honest I know nothing of those 2 OTs that got cut to know if they are good or whether they play LT or RT but we need OT help.

- Levi Brown was a 5th overall pick of the Arizona Cardinals. He plays LT but never came anywhere close to playing up to his draft status, and Cardinals fans are happy to see him gone.

- Erik Winston, cut by the Texans yesterday, is a much better player than Brown, though he was drafted much lower. He was a pure cap casualty and Texans fans are not happy about losing him. The deal with him is, he's a RT so unless we're planning to move Carimi to LT he's probably not the guy for us.

I expect Winston to have a new team soon, Brown not so much.   

Re all the "whining" about WR,  it's just that a lot of Bears fans are seeing all this attention being paid to the D so far in FA (Mario, Hawthorne), and getting concerned that our franchise QB is going to be left with sloppy seconds yet again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 13, 2012, 08:55:00 am
FA hasn't even started yet.

The fact that there are two news blurbs about the Bears being interested in a LB and williams hardly means the team is ignoring offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 09:27:55 am
If V Jax is officially off Emery's list and Colston gets re-signed then I think we should go after Meachem hard.

I remember people saying when the Saints drafted him that they got a steal.  He might not ever be a true #1 but he's got a nice size/speed package and would be a dramatic upgrade over anyone we have right now just on physical ability alone.  And he's been used pretty sparingly in NOLA so he hasn't sustained a lot of wear and tear.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on March 13, 2012, 09:54:04 am
Williams is only 27, is elite, and plays an elite position.  You don't get a chance at players like that very often.  I'm not into throwing big money at VJax.  I think it is a bad longer term investment.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 13, 2012, 10:04:07 am
OK, I can see Meachem. But lets get back to VJax for a moment. One blurb I heard is he loves SD (who wouldnt, great climate, great place to call home) and he would like to stay. He already knows what SD will pay him he has been in contract negotiations. So say somebody maybe the Bears were to offer 7 to 8 Mill and SD was at 7 then he takes that offer back to SD and they either match the offer or he gives them a hometown discount and re-signs with SD. I dont really believe he wants to move bad enough unless somebody grossly overpays him which we shouldnt do either. This is why I said earlier that Colston seems like a more signable option.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 10:07:34 am
I dunno. Somehow I see us throwing huge money at Mario Williams... and Aaron Rodgers still shredding our D. I'd love to be proven wrong.

OTOH if we can't outscore the Packers and Lions (which we're a couple of years away from having the OL and WRs to do), then maybe trying to defend those teams better is our only option. 

What would be interesting, assuming we did sign Mario, is if we still tried to keep Izzy as well or if he'd have to go to clear the cap room.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 10:09:38 am
I get the feeling V Jax will wind up back in San Diego.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 13, 2012, 10:24:10 am
- Erik Winston, cut by the Texans yesterday, is a much better player than Brown, though he was drafted much lower. He was a pure cap casualty and Texans fans are not happy about losing him. The deal with him is, he's a RT so unless we're planning to move Carimi to LT he's probably not the guy for us.

OK, but what if Carimi isnt healthy or has a relapse? My point is the other than Levi Horn who couldnt make the field when Carimi went down cant be counted on which would mean we dont have either tackle spot covered. And thats on the worst rated OLine in the league. And here everybody is whining WR, WR, WR.

The bottom line is we need help desperate. Now The cat got let out of the bag that the Bears plan to move Chris Williams back outside to LT. That scares me more than moving Lance Louis outside to RG. Its like musical chairs and who knows whats gonna happen when the music stops.

Waiting till the 2nd round for a LT is way, way too foolish. Even Adams will be gone by the time we draft in round 2. IMHO we need to move up from 19 to insure we get Martin from Stanford.

It doesnt surprise me Tice is sniffing out the Wisky OL players. We need depth everywhere, but finding that LT isnt at Wisconsin.

I dont know the score at WR but it has been reported that there are good WR candidates that will last into the 3rd round. I cant see wasting #19 on a project WR when the obvious need is LT. Lets see if the Bears can engineer a deal to get more than one need covered in FA before we start formulating draft plans
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 10:28:52 am
Could definitely make the case that a solid backup for Carimi is a good idea.  If he winds up being a chronic medical case we would be screwed at both T positions.

Definitely agree that we're not gonna find a LT in the 2nd round.  Or at least, a guy that can start there for us right away.  The problem is that quality LTs come on to the FA market even less often than quality DEs. If you see a FA LT it's almost always cause they're past their prime (Orlando Pace), or they just flat-out suck and the team has decided to cut their losses and move on (Levi Brown).  Demetrius Bell would be an obvious exception -- a guy in his prime playing at a relatively high level -- but we have no indication the Bills plan on letting him go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 13, 2012, 10:41:01 am
Suposedly he is a FA, and they didnt franchise him either, which wouldnt make sense either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 13, 2012, 10:43:31 am
At this point I dont see much option other than movint up from 19 or moving up from our 2nd round pick
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 10:44:20 am
Mario Williams and Demetrius Bell would pretty much drain the whole FA pot, I'm thinking.
 
We would finally have the talent to compete in the trenches... but we'd be totally at the mercy of the draft for WR. 

So maybe that scenario looks like:

FA - Mario and Bell. End of story.

1st round WR (Hill or Floyd)
2nd round WR (Alshon Jeffery if he falls this far, or maybe a smaller speed guy)
3a best available DB
3b best available OL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 13, 2012, 11:02:50 am
I've been to this Redeo before, re: Columbo.  Carmi may or may not be ok, if history is any indication I'm leaning to not.  Columbo, Williams, Carmi (and yes I was happy when he was drafted) all, all damaged lineman.  Bears need some healthy people up front that can make plays and let Cutler wear his Jersey without washing 2, 3 weeks in a row. Obviously the Jer thought OL were an afterthought.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 13, 2012, 11:06:58 am
I'd agree on Mario Williams. Talent at that position doesnt come along often. If I had a choice between Mario Williams and VJax there isnt a logical case that could be made for VJax. But we sure need help at a lot of other places and we cant be foolish with money or draft picks.

Why I talked about moving up with our 2d round pick was so as we could take Hill at #19 and use or 2md #3 and move up sufficietly to take Adams from Ohio State in Round 2 or even round #1 if thats how high the two picks would move us. That would give us a decent job of hole filling.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 11:09:59 am
Yeah when you factor in the injury thing, our situation at OT is actually a lot more tenuous than it may appear.

With Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi you've got a (presumably) starting LT who has lost significant time in his career to back and wrist injuries, and a starting RT who lasted exactly 6 quarters into his NFL career before going down for the year.  And then you've got Webb as the swing backup, who does OK at RT but struggles at LT.  And behind those 3 a guy (Levi Horn) who has yet to get off the practice squad.

So yeah there are a whole lot of opportunities for things to go south with that group.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 11:15:07 am
The Rams have 2 high picks in the 2nd round and I think they will use one of them for Mike Adams.  He has fallen out the 1st round in a lot of mocks due to his lackluster combine and questions about whether he can handle NFL speed rushers on the left side...  but a guy with his frame certainly won't fall too far down into the 2nd.  My point being, the price to trade up from 19 into a high enough spot in the 2nd to get him will likely be pretty high.  It could conceivably take both of our 3rd rounders if not even a little more.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 13, 2012, 11:29:20 am
Ok, is it 3:00 yet?  I am ready for the signings to start already.  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 13, 2012, 11:32:00 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0313-haugh-nfl-free-agency--20120313,0,5540379.column

Good read.  The thing that startled me was that Illinois has no one in the ncaa's.  No one!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 11:54:52 am
So much for that one...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/13/saints-keep-top-receiver-colston-with-five-year-contract/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 12:05:33 pm
I'm warming a bit to the Mario Williams idea.  The fact that he's only 27 is a big deal. Also, IIRC, Mario sat out quite a bit of last season with an injury so effectively that saved a year of wear and tear and if he's fully recovered he should be really fresh for this year.

And, with Peppers' knees wearing down a bit last year and him getting older, it would be nice to have a younger version of him in case we should suddenly be without his services altogether.

Even though Mario's price tag will be outrageous, he is still considered the best value FA out there (regardless of position) so since it doesn't look like we'll be able to snag a premier WR or LT with that money, this would be an acceptable place to spend it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 12:18:18 pm
In case anyone is wondering...

Mario Williams is 6'6, 283 lbs.  He is entering his 7th NFL season. In 6 seasons with the Texans he has recorded 53 sacks and 11 forced fumbles.  (By comparison, Julius Peppers had 56 sacks and 20 forced fumbles after 6 seasons.)

He started every game his first 4 seasons. In his 5th season he played 13 games.  Last year he had 5 sacks in 5 games before getting injured and missing the rest of the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 13, 2012, 12:23:00 pm
Yuck.  That hurts for all the world to see:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/NFL-free-agency-covers-up-team-flaws-031212
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 12:26:28 pm
Good.  I'm glad the Bears' astounding ineptitude in player evaluation and development is being brought into the light.

I wish an article like this would have come out 2 years ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 13, 2012, 02:59:59 pm
just heard on NFLN that the bears have traded 2 #3 for Brandon Marshall!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 03:03:34 pm
Glazer: Dolphins trade Brandon Marshall to Bears
Posted by Mike Florio on March 13, 2012, 3:59 PM EDT
And we’re off.  In a major way.

The new league year is open, and the Dolphins have fired the first shot.  Jay Glazer of FOX reports that they have traded receiver Brandon Marshall to the Bears for a 2012 third-round pick and a 2013 third-round pick.

The move reunites Marshall with quarterback Jay Cutler.  The spent three years together in Denver.

It also clears Marshall out of Miami, in advance of the potential arrival of Peyton Manning, who reportedly had misgivings about playing with Marshall.

So it’s sort of like reverse-Peyton bait.

More to come.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 13, 2012, 03:04:34 pm

 BRANDON MARSHALL CHICAGO BEAR
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 13, 2012, 03:06:13 pm
dang Pek, you got the article before I could.
My browser hung up, must be all the traffic!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 13, 2012, 03:08:03 pm
This really opens things up for us.
It would be a coup if we could sign Williams and Bell in FA and then get Hill in rnd 1.
I expect we're going to have to tear up Marshall's contract though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 13, 2012, 03:09:10 pm
What the hell is Manning's problem with him?  He's running the show in Miami and he's not even a fin? Really? Glad to see it though. #6 must be having some influance.  Thank God.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 13, 2012, 03:09:44 pm
 We can go OL in the first round.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 03:10:34 pm
The nice thing is the Dolphins already paid him the signing bonus and they take the cap hit for it.  The Bears are just on the hook for the yearly salary.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on March 13, 2012, 03:20:13 pm
Marshall and Cutler.  Lets all hope they can rekindle the flame.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 13, 2012, 03:21:11 pm
do we go after Royal in FA? He hasn't been as good lately, maybe he can get a little of that back.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on March 13, 2012, 03:25:10 pm
Now I feel much better about potentially going after Mario Williams. I was nervous about going after him before getting a receiver.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ISF on March 13, 2012, 03:43:50 pm
Need to shore up OL first. Go after Carl Nicks. Maybe look at Dallas Clark at TE too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 13, 2012, 03:45:26 pm
Fox reported the Bears have him for 9mil in 2013 and 2014. How much is a team going to have to cough up for VJ?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on March 13, 2012, 04:44:31 pm
Brandon Marshall! Awesome news, thanks for all the great reading on here, gents.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 13, 2012, 04:47:20 pm
They are saying Williams is going to Buffalo tonight.  And also something about us getting Jason Campbell as backup qb.  Just happy about Marshall.  WOW....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on March 13, 2012, 05:09:42 pm
SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!  For 2 3rd rounders is nice.  Still have an extra 2nd to use to move up and draft our future LT.

I like the reunion of Jay Cutler's security blanket.  Now get Mario Williams and some quality depth!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on March 13, 2012, 05:13:27 pm
Tim Jennings coming back...
http://www.chicagobears.com/index.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 13, 2012, 05:23:22 pm
Why would Jason Campbell come here as a backup to Cutler when he could've simply stayed in Oakland to be Palmer's backup.  I don't buy that rumor.

BUT HAPPY ABOUT THE MARSHALL DEAL!  Didn't think it was possible!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on March 13, 2012, 05:24:09 pm
Couldn't help myself.  Marshall 2011 highlights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlVNCRV5KeM
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 13, 2012, 05:27:04 pm
Superb deal getting Marshall. Might not have enough now for Mario but irregardless, hats off to Mr. Emery. That's some serious work he's gotten done today.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 05:33:39 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8680

An article about Marshall's stats and a video with less sucky music...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 13, 2012, 05:37:46 pm

 Emery ... landing ... with both boot heels planted firmly in the ground.

 This motherfuucker seems to know what it takes.

 Mario Williams would just be so much more gravy right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 13, 2012, 06:05:30 pm
When I first heard it was 2 3rd rounders I was kind of like ok, I guess.  But when I heard it was the Olsen 3rd, which is the lower pick, and NEXT years 3rd.  That made me pretty happy.  We still have our first 3 picks this year. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 13, 2012, 06:11:27 pm
Wow, so that is what a #1 WR looks like.  I wish football season was starting this weekend. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 06:20:05 pm

Podcast: Marshall talks Cutler chemistry

 March, 13, 2012
Mar 13
 
4:40
 
PM CT
 

Email
 Print
 Comments0
 
By ESPNChicago.com
 
Brandon Marshall hinted back in January that he would like to play with Jay Cutler again in an interview with “The Waddle & Silvy Show” on ESPN 1000.
 
“I am originally from Pittsburgh, so I'm a little cold-blooded,” Marshall said. “This is a crazy business and you never know what can happen. You can never say never in this business."
 
He also spoke about how it was difficult for him to reminisce about the time he spent playing with Cutler.
 
“It's actually painful," he said. "It's hard to find that. Sometimes it's once in a lifetime ... when you take two guys and put them on a field together and they have that chemistry, that's what's like almost impossible to find. I can't explain it.
 
“We'll line up out there and we'll get a coverage and he'll just look at me and I'll know exactly what he wants to adjust my route on. You don't find that. The chemistry was great, it was something special."
 
Now, Marshall will have the chance to make a new history with Cutler on the Bears.
 
Brandon Marshall talks about his chemistry with Jay Cutler.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 06:58:21 pm
Bears working to sign free agent Jeremy Mincey

 Posted by Evan Silva on March 13, 2012, 7:46 PM EDT
 
AP
The Chicago Bears, by many accounts, were supposed to court free agent defensive end Mario Williams once the market opened on Tuesday. It never happened.
 
The Bears are, however, pursing free agent defensive end Jeremy Mincey.
 
Dan Pompei of the Chicago Tribune reports the Bears are “trying to sign” Mincey, who is coming off a breakout year in Jacksonville. Mincey racked up career highs in tackles (57), sacks (eight), and forced fumbles (four) while starting all 16 games for the Jags.
 
Mincey is 28 years old. In Chicago, he would give the Bears a strong pass-rushing tandem playing opposite Julius Peppers. The Bears are trying to upgrade on left defensive end Israel Idonije, whose contract is up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 13, 2012, 07:06:16 pm
A month ago I didnt think it was possible for the Bears to trade for Marshall beings his 9 Mill paycheck. But now with VJax likely in the same range it makes sense but Marshall has had some off the field issues too and I thought that would ifluence things that the Bears wouldnt make a move. I also felt that the Fins wouldnt trade him as he is their best receiver. But I am very pleasantly surprised that its happened.

Now lets get Super Mario and trade up in the 1st round and get Martin from Stanford and we can sing playoffs here we come.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 13, 2012, 07:07:32 pm
Not quite Mario Williams.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 13, 2012, 07:09:03 pm
Mario Williams in Chicago would be Super Mario
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 13, 2012, 07:11:15 pm
Well maybe he doesnt sign in Buf and comes here tom.  Although PFT sure made it sound like they were really going to make him an offer he couldnt refuse.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 13, 2012, 07:21:33 pm
Hamster must have gotten tired.  We just signed Jason Campbell: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-reportedly-pursuing-campbell-as-cutlers-backup-20120313,0,1560225.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 13, 2012, 07:23:39 pm
And I dont think we should cut ties with Idonije.  He was starting to come into his own. And after they totally jerked the guy around, gain weight, lose weight, gain weight, lose weight. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 13, 2012, 07:25:05 pm
The Fluke Flap grows. Sandra didn't testify before Congress. She testified before a souped up press conference arranged by some members of Congress. And it turns out Rush is far from the biggest pig in the land, though he does seem to be the only one with any wit.

Bill Maher's idea of pushing the first amendment envelope is to use the "c" word on HBO. (Must stand for �c�ash, since he was able to give Obama's super pac a million dollars.) Meanwhile The One mangles the first amendment by forcing the Catholic Church buy abortion pills. Give him credit for a sense of irony.


(http://www.bokbluster.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/120309sandra-fluke-rush-limbaugh-obama-georgetown-contraceptives.jpg)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 13, 2012, 07:29:32 pm
(http://www.creators.com/editorial_cartoons/21/22552_image.gif)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 13, 2012, 07:36:41 pm
vj 56 mil 5 years. Suddenly 9mil doesn't look bad at all. Go Bears!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 13, 2012, 08:13:54 pm

 Packy yer on the wrong forum!

 And yes 46 ... cheap !!

 We got a good fuuckin deal by Emery!

 Already I like this guy !
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 13, 2012, 08:18:59 pm
I think I read that VJ is getting an av erage of 13 million/year for the first 3 years.  We're paying 9 million for the same, and I think we got the better receiver.  This ends up being Olsen and next year's 3.  I can live with that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 08:26:22 pm
Marshall is only 28.  Jackson is on the wrong side of thirty.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 13, 2012, 08:32:41 pm
Thought I read Marshall was 27?  I think Jackson is 29
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 08:37:34 pm
Marshall turns 28 next week.  You are correct Jackson is 29 But I read several things that said he was 30 so perhaps he will be 30 before the season starts. *shrugs*

Either way Marshal is the better deal.  He is cheaper, younger, more talented, already has a raport with Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 13, 2012, 08:43:17 pm
Much gush on the nfl network about Marshall in Chicago.  The 46 is totally amped and its only March.  Damn!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 13, 2012, 08:54:59 pm
the other advantage of Marshall over VJ is that Marshall will already know a good bit of what Bates will want to do and he already has the chemistry with Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 13, 2012, 08:59:14 pm
Packy yer on the wrong forum!

 And yes 46 ... cheap !!

 We got a good fuuckin deal by Emery!

 Already I like this guy !

Oops.  Sorry.  Senior moment.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 13, 2012, 09:00:26 pm
Two good moves in FA!  Brandon Marshall was a no brainer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 13, 2012, 09:26:54 pm
That's a fantastic trade!

two thirds and not both this year.  I would have paid more.

He has to be the most talented receiver we've had.

Supposedly the Fins were tired of his behavior so we hope Cutler, Bates and Tice can keep him in line.

Campbell is another good work as a backup.

There are a lot of second tier FA's shopping the next few weeks who could improve us.

Dallas Clark for the right price suddenly creates problems for defenses paired with Marshall.

Don't know about FA OL, may have to draft those.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 13, 2012, 09:33:24 pm
That's a fantastic trade!

two thirds and not both this year.  I would have paid more.

He has to be the most talented receiver we've had.

Supposedly the Fins were tired of his behavior so we hope Cutler, Bates and Tice can keep him in line.

Campbell is another good work as a backup.

There are a lot of second tier FA's shopping the next few weeks who could improve us.

Dallas Clark for the right price suddenly creates problems for defenses paired with Marshall.

Don't know about FA OL, may have to draft those.

 Man I'd shiiit if Emery could pull Clark to us as a T.E.

 thats it right there.

 Cutler would go apeshiiit ... just let him throw.

 
Oops.  Sorry.  Senior moment.

 Hey if we land Mario Williams, Rodgers is nothing BUT senior moments.  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 09:59:09 pm
Keep in mind Marshall had shitty QB's throwing to him.  He knows how good Cutler is and Cutler has gotten into his face yelling at him many times.  He wanted to come here and Cutler wants him here.  I am good with that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 13, 2012, 10:03:38 pm
Keep in mind Marshall had ****ty QB's throwing to him.  He knows how good Cutler is and Cutler has gotten into his face yelling at him many times.  He wanted to come here and Cutler wants him here.  I am good with that.

 Goddammit Duck ! Emery done did good !

 We look in really good shape before the draft ... I mean ...

 we lookin really good shape !
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 13, 2012, 10:13:39 pm
Quote from: Pekin on Today at 09:59:09 pm

    Keep in mind Marshall had ****ty QB's throwing to him.  He knows how good Cutler is and Cutler has gotten into his face yelling at him many times.  He wanted to come here and Cutler wants him here.  I am good with that.


He had $hitty QB's?  But he made the pro bowl.  Guess Marshall threw to himself during the season.
 Goddammit Duck ! Emery done did good !

 We look in really good shape before the draft ... I mean ...

 we lookin really good shape !

He had $hitty QB's?  But he made the pro bowl.  Guess Marshall threw to himself during the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 13, 2012, 10:17:55 pm
Marshall has not had a good QB throwing to him since Cutler.  Chad Henne, Matt Moore were his QB's in Miami.  In Denver Orton was the best he played with after Cutler left.

Yet he still has had 5 straight 1,000 yard seasons. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 13, 2012, 10:19:20 pm
 It hasnt sunk in yet ... Cutler to Marshall.

 It hasnt sunk in yet ... Cutler to Marshall.

 It hasnt sunk in yet ... Cutler to Marshall.

 It hasnt sunk in yet ... Cutler to Marshall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 13, 2012, 10:21:46 pm
Marshall has not had a good QB throwing to him since Cutler.  Chad Henne, Matt Moore were his QB's in Miami.  In Denver Orton was the best he played with after Cutler left.

Yet he still has had 5 straight 1,000 yard seasons. 

 Dude we are on our way. The handcuffs being unleashed was angelo.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 13, 2012, 10:45:42 pm
Very good deal for the Bears. They get a wideout that has proven chemistry with our QB, which is simply huge, and they didn't give the bank to get him. With him and Bennett, who Cut has chemistry with as well, we've improved leaps and bounds in one shot. We don't have to wait or hope for the wr to 'grow into' his position. He's already familiar! Huge, simply huge. Now if we get some help for Pepp on the line, that will be FA Airstrike #2. We could use help in the secondary and OL now too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: otto105 on March 13, 2012, 11:00:15 pm
Well let's do some number crunching on the legal pad.

1) He was traded from Denver to Miami for two second round picks.

2) Now traded to bears for two third round picks, eh... Seems that value is falling.

3) In six season in NFL has never made the playoffs.


Yup, Chicago is the right spot for him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 13, 2012, 11:12:39 pm
Bears made the NFC Champs game without him and much else...imagine WITH him....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 14, 2012, 12:12:13 am
Well let's do some number crunching on the legal pad.

1) He was traded from Denver to Miami for two second round picks.

2) Now traded to bears for two third round picks, eh... Seems that value is falling.

3) In six season in NFL has never made the playoffs.


Yup, Chicago is the right spot for him.

 Hey Otto,

 Remember Doug Flutie.

 A Ditka pick.

 CHICAGO always gets it right.

 Ask Harbough.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 14, 2012, 05:14:30 am
Newly-acquired Chicago Bears wide receiver Brandon Marshall was recently "involved in another incident that could lead to an NFL review" according to a report from Adam Schefter of ESPN.

No details have surfaced at this time but it seems likely that this latest "incident" is part of the reason the Dolphins suddenly and unexpectedly trade from Miami on Tuesday.  . It's been nearly 11 months since Marshall's last "incident," his April 2011 stabbing at the hands of his wife.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 14, 2012, 05:15:34 am
Aaron Wilson of Scout.com reports that the Jaguars have re-signed defensive end Jeremy Mincey to a four-year deal.

Mincey was avidly pursued by the Bears but ultimately decided to stay home.  Since joining the Jaguars' starting lineup in Week 10 2010, the 2006 sixth-round pick of the Patriots has notched 12 sacks in 24 games.  Mincey's re-signing may indicate that Jacksonville is not seriously interested in entering the bidding for Mario Williams.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 14, 2012, 05:16:33 am
Jason LaCanfora of NFL.com reports free agent Mario Williams is leaving Buffalo without signing a deal and will visit at least one more team.

This doesn't automatically mean Williams won't eventually sign Williams but the odds have certainly decreased.  It is not known if he was not blown away by the Bills' financial offer, has had second thoughts about playing in Buffalo, or just wants to take some more time to weigh his options.

Several teams are still in the hunt including the Titans.  NFL Network reports that the Chicago Bears have dropped out of the running.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Chris27 on March 14, 2012, 05:21:37 am
So when does Marshall actually begin his Bears' career? Game 8?

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/7684431/report-brandon-marshall-chicago-bears-allegedly-hit-woman-club-fight-sunday
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 14, 2012, 07:05:08 am
Anger management issues?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 14, 2012, 08:21:31 am
Well! Those last five posts were a bucket of icewater in the face after an allnighter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on March 14, 2012, 09:40:29 am
Eric Weems is a Bear...3 year deal...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 14, 2012, 09:50:28 am
is he another ST guy? I see he was a receiver/returner. I wonder is he insurance against Knox.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 14, 2012, 10:46:06 am
st guy. Bear also signed another st guy from sf according to the trib. Also according to the trib the bear knew about the Marshall blowup and went ahead anyway.  Cutler seems to be having more and more influence.  A married couple at a bar at 4am.  God, was I ever that young?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 14, 2012, 10:55:47 am
and rich?

not wealthy - but rich
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 11:09:43 am
is he another ST guy? I see he was a receiver/returner. I wonder is he insurance against Knox.

That's my take on the Weems signing. He's not as fast as Knox is (was?) but he's got a pretty decent average on returns.

Was kind of expecting Emery to go after a couple bigger needs with our FA budget rather than dribs and drabs on ST'ers and backups. I mean I know Marshall's paycheck is gonna take a big chunk out of that but I thought we'd still have enough to sign at least one OL, DE or CB who could be in contention to start. 

But ST'ers and backups are pieces of the puzzle too so I'll give Emery the benefit of the doubt. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 14, 2012, 11:16:31 am
Maybe he is waiting on Super Mario, just in case.  We just signed McCown for 1 year.  Enderle may never take a snap as a Bear.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 11:16:59 am
Too bad.  Bye bye Enderle.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 11:17:52 am
Seriously...  Cutler, Campbell and McCown. That's the best trio of Bears QBs we've had in like, forever.

Emery is gettin' things done.  Good things.

The fact that Emery is signing multiple special teamers makes me think Corey Graham is a goner.

I also heard that Kellen Davis had visits lined up with three teams...  would suck to lose him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 11:37:42 am
According to this article, Demetrius Bell is on the market and making visits:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/14/cardinals-hosting-three-free-agent-offensive-linemen-on-wednesday/

Maybe that's the guy Emery is saving his shekels for?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 11:42:42 am
I also really like that Emery is only signing a lot of these guys to 1 or 2 year deals. Gives us an easier out if they don't work out, or if someone better is available for the same price next year.

Plus, guys who know they're year-to-year tend to put out better effort.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 14, 2012, 12:07:58 pm
Sounds like a done deal.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/14/mario-takes-physical-brings-fiancee-to-buffalo-but-deal-not-done/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 14, 2012, 12:11:10 pm
Also allows us to draft to replace them too
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 14, 2012, 12:52:09 pm
After playing in Huston and growing up in NC, perhaps the thrills of playing and living on an eastern shore of a great lake have been lost upon Mr. Williams. I would refer him to www.freezeyourassoff.com for reference.  Get your snowshoes polished Mario.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 12:55:10 pm
TE John Carlson signed with the Vikings. 

5 years for $25 mil which seems like a lot considering they already have a #1 TE (Rudolph) and pretty major needs in several other areas.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 01:23:48 pm
This guy would be a great upgrade to Marion Barber if the price was right:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-freeagent-rb-michael-bush-visiting-chicago-bears-20120314,0,534807.story

He's a 6'1, 245-lb load with surprising speed.  Our red zone rushing would improve significantly with him in the mix.

That being said, it looks like Emery's M.O. is becoming clear:  depth and special-teamers via FA, and starters via trades or the draft.

Sign Demetrius Bell, draft Hill in the 1st and a pass rusher in the 2nd, and I'd say Emery's to-do list is just about checked-off.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 14, 2012, 01:49:05 pm
Orton signed with the Cowboys.  And we are paying Campbell 3.5 mil. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 14, 2012, 01:58:40 pm
I expect Emery is working on a big deal or two but sometimes they take time.
The ST/backup  guys might only get 2 calls where as Ben Grubbs or Demetrius Bell might get 10 and take some time to figure things out.
Right now I think Mincey is the only guy we targeted that signed elsewhere.

I wonder about guys like Jared Gaither or Marcus McNeil. I don't think McNeil has been cleared medically yet from a neck issue and has been banged up a little but he is pretty good when healthy and is originally from Il.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 02:00:23 pm
Hard for me to know if 3.5 mil for 1 year is in the ballpark for a solid #2 QB.

My gut reaction is it's a tad high but OTOH, considering our backup QB cost us the playoffs last year, maybe paying a bit of a premium at that position is OK.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 02:02:33 pm
I expect Emery is working on a big deal or two but sometimes they take time.
The ST/backup  guys might only get 2 calls where as Ben Grubbs or Demetrius Bell might get 10 and take some time to figure things out.
Right now I think Mincey is the only guy we targeted that signed elsewhere.

I wonder about guys like Jared Gaither or Marcus McNeil. I don't think McNeil has been cleared medically yet from a neck issue and has been banged up a little but he is pretty good when healthy and is originally from Il.


- Gaither re-signed with the Chargers.

- McNeill's career is likely over...  a real shame because in his prime, he was a Top 5 LT in the league.

- Ben Grubbs is supposedly being courted by the Redskins...  who I thought had lost a bunch of cap, but whatever.

- Demetrius Bell is visiting the Cardinals.

That's the latest I know on the big-name linemen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 14, 2012, 02:15:35 pm
I was thinking the skins just signed Nicks but that was TB.
TB might be a force this year.
Upgrading their OL and WR. Freeman isn't bad at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 02:35:19 pm
Bucs will be interesting to watch with some big-name offensive acquisitions and a whole new coaching staff.  There's talent on that team but Raheem Morris was clearly out of his depth.  And while Josh Freeman seems to have everything it takes to be a playoff QB, he regressed big-time last year.  That's a division where between the Saints, Falcons, Bucs and Panthers you could potentially have 4 teams all finishing between about 8-8 and 11-5.

One thing the Bucs need to do before I can give them too much respect is to cut that worthless POS Talib.  Can't believe they're still hanging on to that turd.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 02:58:39 pm
This guy would be a great upgrade to Marion Barber if the price was right:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-freeagent-rb-michael-bush-visiting-chicago-bears-20120314,0,534807.story

He's a 6'1, 245-lb load with surprising speed.  Our red zone rushing would improve significantly with him in the mix.

That being said, it looks like Emery's M.O. is becoming clear:  depth and special-teamers via FA, and starters via trades or the draft.

Sign Demetrius Bell, draft Hill in the 1st and a pass rusher in the 2nd, and I'd say Emery's to-do list is just about checked-off.

I like Marion Barber.  He's the battering ram we need and if healthy can make a difference.  Why sign someone another power runner when you already have a dependable one.

Now if it's BRANDON JACOBS then by all means sign him!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 03:19:46 pm
If we stay at 19, Hill is gone and there are no viable LT prospects, I could see Emery going a couple of ways:

1) Draft Whitney Mercilus.  It doesn't look like we're gonna get a pass rusher in FA and Whitley is the best 4-3 DE that could still be available.  He is a one year wonder, yes, but he is also being compared to Jean Pierre-Paul in terms of talent. I really don't see us going CB in this spot because of value.  I think by 19 the CBs that are left on the board will be 2nd round talent (with the possible exception of Dre Kirkpatrick).  If we go D at 19 I don't see it being anybody but a front-four guy or Kirkpatrick. 

2) Trade down a few spots and take Kendall Wright.  19 is simply too high for a 5'10 WR but down in the mid-20s he would be a fair value. I'm a little concerned that the numbers he piled up were with the benefit of an exceptional QB (RGIII) and against average to awful Big XII pass defenses... but a 4,000 yard college career is impressive any way you slice it. Pretty much all the legit scouts say his 4.6 at the combine was bogus and should be ignored as he is a 4.4 guy on the field.  He is a finished product that despite his size liability could nicely complement Marshall and Bennett and allow us to pull Hester off the field as a WR once and for all. 

With Brandon Marshall on board I think Michael Floyd is out of the mix even if he's still there at 19. They are basically the same player.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 14, 2012, 03:20:29 pm
Marion Barber did have some brain farts last year.  Just saying.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 03:21:53 pm
I could very easily see Emery purging Angelo's entire Dallas trifecta.  Hurd's already gone, Barber and RoyBoy may not be far behind.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 14, 2012, 03:22:41 pm
Besides, everyone likes Bush.  ;) 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 14, 2012, 03:40:17 pm
I like Bush.  I really do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest118 on March 14, 2012, 03:49:17 pm
Lovin the new GM so far.

Hmmmmm no #1 WR the whole time Angelo was here (Angelo felt it wasn't important - yet the peckers have 3 #1 WRs).

Enery takes 1 day to get a WR. Sweet.

I want the $ to go to Mario Williams...draft O lineman.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 03:55:23 pm
Mario's going to Buffalo, I'm pretty sure.

It was a nice pipe dream but with what we've spent already on backups and special teamers there's not enough left to even get in the game for Mario.  Heck we couldn't even pony up for the DE that Jacksonville re-signed.  If we were gonna go after Mario we would have gone all-in right out of the gate (like we did with Peppers), and that simply didn't happen.

I'm feelin' DE in Round 1 of the draft.  I just hope we get the right one for a change.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 04:21:32 pm
Marion Barber did have some brain farts last year.  Just saying.

I only knew of the play where he ran out of bounds against Denver.  That's the only brain fart I know of.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 04:22:46 pm
Mario's going to Buffalo, I'm pretty sure.

It was a nice pipe dream but with what we've spent already on backups and special teamers there's not enough left to even get in the game for Mario.  Heck we couldn't even pony up for the DE that Jacksonville re-signed.  If we were gonna go after Mario we would have gone all-in right out of the gate (like we did with Peppers), and that simply didn't happen.

I'm feelin' DE in Round 1 of the draft.  I just hope we get the right one for a change.

I still say if Hill is there at #19 he'll be drafted.  Marshall may miss the first 8 games this season because of his off the field antics. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 04:23:36 pm
There was another play, either same Broncos game or maybe the Chiefs game, where he lined up as a WR but he wasn't in the right position and we got flagged.  It negated a TD IIRC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 04:25:41 pm
I remember that.  I blame that on Martz with his crazed play calling.

He made a stupid call in the Raiders game as well that probably not only cost the Bears the game but maybe ruined Hanie's career.  On the 10 and driving and he called a play for Hanie to throw back to the other side of the field and the Raider intercepted it and almost scored.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 04:27:14 pm
I still say if Hill is there at #19 he'll be drafted.  Marshall may miss the first 8 games this season because of his off the field antics. 

That would be smart, IF Hill is there. If Marshall gets off the hook that gives us two 6'4 WRs with speed, from Day One and that will definitely cause opposing DCs to put in some OT.  OTOH If Marshall has to sit some games, we still have a big guy with #1 skills even if he's not as polished.

IIRC we are only committed to Marshall for 2 years.  By then presumably Hill would be a finished product and we would be in a position to part ways with Marshall if he's been too much of a headache or simply is no longer playing up to his salary.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 14, 2012, 04:32:30 pm
I think Barber also had a costly fumble last year as well that pretty much cost us a game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 14, 2012, 04:33:30 pm
According to the Trib Cutler was on am 1000 backing Marshall and lobbying for Eddie Royal.  Is he available and worth it?  Has Roy packed his bags?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 04:33:56 pm
Or they could draft an OL or DE at #19 and then draft Quick in the second round at WR if Marshall gets out of trouble before the season started.

The Bears have the luxury of having options this draft to solidify the offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 04:35:36 pm
I think Barber also had a costly fumble last year as well that pretty much cost us a game.

I know but I don't call fumbles "brain farts".   That was just something unfortunate.  But then again the defense didn't stiffen up and allowed Tebow to march the Broncos to a game winning FG.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 04:36:31 pm
According to the Trib Cutler was on am 1000 backing Marshall and lobbying for Eddie Royal.  Is he available and worth it?  Has Roy packed his bags?

I would love to get Eddie Royal.  That would make our WR spot complete!

BYE BYE ROY!!!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ISF on March 14, 2012, 04:37:13 pm
Rumor has it that we are trying to lure S Laron Landry to Chicago.

That would be a nice signing for the defense. Wonder who would sit...Wright or Conte...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 04:38:21 pm
It will be interesting to see if re-uniting with Cutler can help Brandon keep his issues under control.  He was clearly not happy with the QB situation down there (who would be?) so hopefully a happy Brandon is a productive and low-maintenance Brandon.

Chicago isn't exactly Miami when it comes to the temptations of the flesh, but there's still plenty of trouble to be found in Chi-Town if one is so inclined...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 04:39:37 pm
Man I don't know about Landry.  He gets injured a LOT and the rumor is that HGH is involved...   of all the FAs that have been linked to the Bears, I'd say he has the most potential to be a bust.

There was an article on PFT this morning saying he had 4 teams interested, but none of those were the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 14, 2012, 04:40:59 pm
Still nothing has been done to upgrade our OLine. Maybe Emery has a plan for a LT
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 04:46:26 pm
One thing I've picked up on Emery is that he's not bringing in guys who are getting toward the end of their careers just because they have big names and were good at one point. 

I don't think he's signed a guy over 30 and most of them are in that 27, 28-year old range.

That could explain why older FA OL like Steve Hutchinson (34, concussions) and Eric Steinbach (32, back) haven't gotten a sniff from the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 04:48:36 pm
Still nothing has been done to upgrade our OLine. Maybe Emery has a plan for a LT

One of the more radical theories I've heard put out is that Emery is going to put Hester on the trading block. 

He's about the only guy on our roster who could maybe pull a quality starting LT for us and even then I think it would take a draft pick or two to sweeten the pot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 14, 2012, 04:55:50 pm
I am pretty sure Roy Williams only signed a one year deal so he is a free agent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 04:57:11 pm
That's what I thought too.  We don't need to cut RoyBoy, we'll just not re-sign him.  I haven't heard anything official to that effect yet, though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 05:00:58 pm
Now they're saying Mario Williams is headed out of Buffalo and by implication, without a contract.

Bears still aren't players for him though.  That was reported last night already.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 14, 2012, 06:45:24 pm
More good work by Emery. kellen Davis signed for 2 yrs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 14, 2012, 06:53:13 pm
I read that the Vikes G Anthony Herrara was going to visit.  He is 31.  Not sure why we would even visit????
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 14, 2012, 06:56:31 pm
I'm happy about the Kellen Davis signing.  He is a big red zone targe.  Too bad Martz didnt have that page in his 1000 page play book.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 14, 2012, 06:57:59 pm
More good work by Emery. kellen Davis signed for 2 yrs.

Agreed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 14, 2012, 07:27:07 pm
Excellent news
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 15, 2012, 12:30:23 am
Jason Campbell....backing Cut up. Know virtually nothing about the guy. What's his story? Is he any good?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 15, 2012, 04:33:43 am
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2012/02/jason-campbell-leaves-fiancee-jenny-montes-at-the-alter-photos/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 15, 2012, 07:21:32 am
If they got Campbell as our starter I wouldn't be thrilled. As a backup? I think it was a good move.

He has thrown 74 touchdowns against 50 interceptions and has a career passer rating of 82.4.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/39418/jason-campbell-as-a-backup-home-run
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 15, 2012, 07:22:52 am
In regards to Barber, I agree that he's a keeper..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 15, 2012, 07:24:46 am
agree on Barber, I wouldn't overpay for a replacement.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 15, 2012, 08:17:07 am
I like Barber but he was looking heavy legged last season, clearly getting older.

I would like to see a back with more energetic running style.  Bell is OK but a little slow too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 08:38:25 am
If the Chiefs sign this guy, it might take them out of the running for Jonathan Martin. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/eric-winston-to-visit-chiefs-on-thursday/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 15, 2012, 09:51:44 am
hmmm, we are bringing in Michael Bush.....
Any chance we sign Bush and Trade Forte?
Emery wouldn't do that would he?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 09:53:40 am
Looks like the Saints are signing Ben Grubbs to replace Nicks.

So it's looking more and more that Emery is gonna stand pat on the OL, at least till the draft.  Assuming he even does something for the OL in the draft.

I can hardly fathom us going into the 2012 season with Webb / Williams / Garza / Louis / Carimi.  The medical risks represented in that lineup are pretty high and the upside is limited to say the least.  There has to be an opportunity to upgrade somewhere in that unit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 09:55:35 am
Any chance we sign Bush and Trade Forte?
Emery wouldn't do that would he?


Forte, Hester and our remaining 3rd round pick to Miami for Jake Long?

Forte and Hester are huge fan favorites so that move would take balls of brass.  And anyway, I'm not sure you're allowed to trade a player you've already tagged.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 15, 2012, 10:54:58 am
I would take Forte over Bush every time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 11:25:26 am
Same here, I think the Bears would be fools to part ways with Forte.

Bush would be a great backup though, who would give us a legitimate chance in short yardage and goal line situations.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 11:52:58 am
Apparently the deal is done in Buffalo.  Mario Williams to Bills for 6 years.  No dollar figure yet but it will presumably be more than Peppers' deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 12:05:29 pm
I know a lot of people are excited about the prospects for our offense with Tice/Bates at the helm, Brandon Marshall, etc. 

However, we do have four starters (Cutler, Forte, Carimi and Chris Williams) all coming back from season-ending injuries. I would say the odds that all four of them come into training camp 100% recovered and in game shape are almost nil.  Not to mention implementing a new offense, the possibility of not having Knox, a rookie WR and/or O-Lineman potentially in the mix, etc.

In other words, the preseason could still look a little rocky on that side of the ball, but hopefully by the time the games start to count we will be clicking on all cylinders.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 12:24:11 pm
Nice sized FA CB (6'1 190) might be worth a look for depth if the price is right and his age (30) doesn't scare Emery off.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/49ers-cut-shawntae-spencer/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 12:59:11 pm
How is it that this guy keeps finding teams he can rip off for $3 mil a year?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/redskins-sign-brandon-meriweather/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 15, 2012, 01:39:42 pm
Well all it took to get Super Mario was 6 years $96 mil. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 15, 2012, 01:59:18 pm
With that much money he should be able to buy the hot water bottle option with his dog sled.  Stay warm Mario.  Enjoy your week of summer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 02:05:51 pm
And that's exactly why the Bears were never in the game for Mario.

He wanted to be paid more than Peppers and that wasn't gonna happen in Chicago.  Just no way to make the numbers work. 

The Bills had better be really happy with him for the next 6 years (and vice versa), cause with that contract he's basically untradeable.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 02:42:50 pm
Kinda wierd how things have completely died down at Halas Hall.

I wonder if Emery's got one more trade up his sleeve before the draft?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 15, 2012, 03:05:14 pm
yap, I wouldn't say he is untradeable. We don't know exactly how that contract is laid out.
It could be a reasonable signing bonus with roster bonuses and escalators built in.
These guys want to get paid a lot of money but the agents also want the numbers to look really big so that they attract more clients and the numbers look big.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 03:08:37 pm
This article breaks out the Mario Williams deal in more detail:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/six-year-96-million-for-mario-williams/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 15, 2012, 04:15:48 pm
Kinda wierd how things have completely died down at Halas Hall.

I wonder if Emery's got one more trade up his sleeve before the draft?

Well I hope he has a plan for the Oline, cause we flat out suck canal water there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 04:17:04 pm
Yup.  So far we dumped Omiyale and that's it.

Gonna take more than addition by subtraction, though. The fact that we don't even seem to be taking a sniff at Demetirus Bell is a little puzzling.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 15, 2012, 04:21:49 pm
Calm down dude!  Maybe he's made  his moves and waiting on the draft.  Patience.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 15, 2012, 04:56:55 pm
Yup.  So far we dumped Omiyale and that's it.

Gonna take more than addition by subtraction, though. The fact that we don't even seem to be taking a sniff at Demetirus Bell is a little puzzling.

It sure is puzzling and downright frightening
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 04:59:41 pm
I wonder how much FA money we have left in the pot. 

Also, does anyone know if we have extended Izzy?  I haven't seen any reports that he's visiting teams, but I haven't seen anything that says we've done a deal with him yet, either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 15, 2012, 05:02:03 pm
I wonder how much FA money we have left in the pot. 

Also, does anyone know if we have extended Izzy?  I haven't seen any reports that he's visiting teams, but I haven't seen anything that says we've done a deal with him yet, either.

I am surprised they didnt bring in another CB too. At least they looked at a DE.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 15, 2012, 05:05:18 pm
I wonder how much FA money we have left in the pot. 

Also, does anyone know if we have extended Izzy?  I haven't seen any reports that he's visiting teams, but I haven't seen anything that says we've done a deal with him yet, either.

I havent heard anything on Izzy. Izzy can be moved back inside if he is signed. They have talked to Okoye but nothing is finalized
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 15, 2012, 07:30:38 pm
Bears not done with signings; Idonije inks 1-year deal

Brad Biggs / Tribune reporter
6:34 p.m. CDT, March 15, 2012


Phil Emery said Thursday afternoon the Chicago Bears could sign a few players in the next couple days or turn the focus to the NFL draft next month.

Before the Bears comb the college ranks for talent, they brought back a starter by announcing defensive end Israel Idonije is coming back on a one-year contract.

Idonije, 31, said all season long that he hoped to return, although he recevied a short-term deal that might not have realized his goals in terms of a pay day. Idonije had five sacks last season and said while the statistical production didn’t meet his levels in 2010, he felt he played better.

The Bears attempted to sign Jeremy Mincey on Tuesday but just before he accepted an offer from them he re-signed with the Jaguars for four years. Some speculated the team would monitor the situation with Kamerion Wimbley, who could be released by the Raiders. But now it looks more likely the team will look to select a defensive end near with one of their first picks and work a rookie into a rotation with Idonije and Julius Peppers.

That leaves two more Bears players on the open market that the Bears may be pursuing – safety Craig Steltz and cornerback Corey Graham, both core players on special teams.

“This is a very interesting period because there's been a lot of signings,” Emery said in a conference call Thursday afternoon. “There's still players, our own or UFAs, that we're considering. But it's almost hit that point of, take a breath, sit back and see who has not been signed, re-evaluate what you have and move forward from there.

“Don't be surprised that we add a few more players here in the next few days and don't be surprised if we don't because after we take that breath we may realize that it's best to start focusing on the draft to meet our needs.”

Idonije had a base salary of $2.4 million last season. He signed a two-year extension in 2009 that included $7 million in new money.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 15, 2012, 07:35:25 pm
Great news.  Now ink Okoye.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 15, 2012, 07:43:00 pm
I am really wondering. Why only one year? Thats just a rental. It would sound to me like they werent happy with Izzy and signed him as a stopgap till they find something better
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 08:09:35 pm
I LOVE these short term deals Emery is writing. He's telling these guys to step it up, or be gone. No more tying ourselves down with JAGs for 4 or 5 yrs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 15, 2012, 08:25:05 pm
Izzy is old and has never played up to his potential.  Bears need a DE and he is the best cheapest option at this point.  A one yr deal was the way to go.  Hopefully we draft his replacement .
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 15, 2012, 09:16:02 pm
Chargers got Eddie Royal. So much for putting the  band back together.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 15, 2012, 09:20:45 pm
Then if I were a guessing man #19 could be a DE. Not that that would be our greatest need. Like dont LTs grow on trees? Dont we have a half dozen on our roster now?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 15, 2012, 09:22:07 pm
Has Martin had his pro day yet at Stanford?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 15, 2012, 09:42:48 pm
Ah well. Still and all, not bad, not bad at all.  It'll do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 15, 2012, 11:02:29 pm
Like the way Emery is thinking here. Sit back and evaluate but don't give the bank away, like we would have with Mario. Would have been WAY too much money wrapped up on the Dline alone. So yea, good thinking so far. DE first followed by a Olineman and then wideouts or sign another wideout, which wouldn't be a bad idea right now. We still need more horses there, so if I'm him I'm looking to sign a wideout yet, then go OL and DE, corner in the draft. Then we can say we've had a solid offseason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 16, 2012, 06:18:52 am
The problem is that we still need 3 starters (WR, LT and DE), but we only have 1 first round pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 16, 2012, 08:47:46 am
Dont we need a safety and a CB too?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 16, 2012, 08:57:42 am
I'm a little surprised Emery didn't go after at least 1 starter in FA. But whatever... at least he has a plan which is more than we can say about his predecessor.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 16, 2012, 09:15:15 am
I'm tot he point now that I think they might take a guy in FA if the value is right but they aren't going all in for a guy.
If we get the team we had last year with Brandon Marshall, we are in the playoffs barring any significant injuries.
The decent tackles in FA are likely too rich for Emery.
At this point it wouldn't surprise me if we pickup a G and let Carimi, Williams and Webb battle it out for T.

It also wouldn't surprise me if we basically go BPA at 19 whether that be T, DE, WR, LB, DB.
All that being said, our 1st 2 picks need to make significant contributions THIS YEAR!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 16, 2012, 09:17:45 am
Just heard a rumor the Bears are in  trade talks for Dwight Freeney. No idea if its legit. Hester for Freeney straight up?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 16, 2012, 09:21:36 am
At first glance my response is hell no.  But with the kickoffs being moved up 5 yards, alot of his firepower is gone.....maybe.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 16, 2012, 09:27:31 am
Just speculating...

- 2nd round pick to Colts for Freeney

- Best available WR, OL or D in 1st and 3rd

- BPAs (any position) the rest of the draft


Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 16, 2012, 10:20:23 am
Dont we need a safety and a CB too?

Yes, yes we do. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 16, 2012, 10:20:40 am
Just heard a rumor the Bears are in  trade talks for Dwight Freeney. No idea if its legit. Hester for Freeney straight up?

While I would really prefer Hester retire a Bear and Freeney being at the age he is right now I would hope that rumor doesnt happen. But since the league has changed the kickoff return rules, it has taken guys like Hester  right out of business. Since the Bears went out and signed that kick returner they just might part with Hester.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 16, 2012, 10:21:24 am
So Michael Bush is visiting someone else today.  Wish we would have locked him up. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 16, 2012, 10:22:32 am
Hester is the Bears most valuable trade chip for sure
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 16, 2012, 10:22:40 am
How old is Freeney anyways?  Seems like he has been around for a while...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on March 16, 2012, 10:25:47 am
A trade of Hester would be riduculous in the extreme. Just the THREAT of him back there is a tool in and of itself, regardless of whether it can happen due to the new rules. Its a good place to be to have the threat of something hanging over the other team that it has to prepare for. Never underestimate having the morale advantage over your opponent....

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 16, 2012, 10:40:29 am
How old is Freeney anyways?  Seems like he has been around for a while...

Freeney is 32 according to the NFL. Certainly past his prime
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 16, 2012, 10:42:47 am
I might would trade Hester but it wouldn't be for Freeney.
Hester can still make hay on punt returns though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 16, 2012, 11:02:29 am
What about our 2nd round pick for Freeney? Understandinf that at his age he would probably only be a situational player vs a 3rd DE in the rotation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 16, 2012, 11:35:39 am
Based on our track record with drafted DEs I would consider a 2nd for Freeney to be a safer bet than our 1st for any DE that might be sitting there at 19 this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 16, 2012, 11:38:03 am
I would agree if Freeney was 28 but him being 32, I'm not sure I want to spend a 2nd on a 1-2 year rental.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 16, 2012, 11:46:05 am
Based on our track record with drafted DEs I would consider a 2nd for Freeney to be a safer bet than our 1st for any DE that might be sitting there at 19 this year.

I would agree with this, but Angelo is gone, we need to see what Emery does drafting.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 16, 2012, 11:46:44 am
The Raiders are going to cut Wimbley today.  Maybe we go after him?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 16, 2012, 12:14:08 pm
Yeah when Emery said the bears were going to "take a breath" I wonder if Wimbley was one of the guys they were waiting on?  He's gonna be pretty spendy though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 16, 2012, 12:20:22 pm
I'm a little surprised Emery didn't go after at least 1 starter in FA. But whatever... at least he has a plan which is more than we can say about his predecessor.

Maybe that trade is better than a FA.  Much cheaper.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 16, 2012, 12:28:33 pm
BTW Wimbley is the guy that notched 4 sacks last season against the same Chargers LT that stonewalled Peppers  a couple weeks later. So he doesnt exactly suck.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 16, 2012, 12:50:53 pm
Is this the guy we are talking about?

#96,Kamerion Wimbley,LB, age 28, 6-4, 255,6,Florida State.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 16, 2012, 12:52:39 pm
I dont believe he can play 4-3 DE.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 16, 2012, 01:39:47 pm
Do the Raiders play a 3-4?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 16, 2012, 01:45:40 pm
I think he can play 4-3 DE.
He might not be an every down run stopping DE but he can work in on passing downs for sure.
Wonder can he play SLB for us on running downs and DE at nickel.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 16, 2012, 05:16:01 pm
Bears re-sign safety Craig Steltz

 Posted by Evan Silva on March 16, 2012, 5:37 PM EDT
 
AP
Vaughn McClure of the Chicago Tribune reports that the Bears have re-signed safety Craig Steltz to a two-year contract.
 
Steltz, 26 in May, started five games last season and forced a pair of fumbles. He also set a career high with 53 tackles.
 
Chris Conte and Major Wright project as the Bears’ starting safeties in 2012, but Steltz makes for a solid No. 3 option and also contributes in kickoff and punt coverage.
 
Steltz recorded ten special teams tackles last season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 16, 2012, 07:21:31 pm
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-free-agency/09000d5d827a6f7c/Marshall-ready-to-reconnect-with-Jay-Cutler
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 16, 2012, 09:15:34 pm
I am good with Steltz signing.  He is good, plus ST...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 16, 2012, 10:42:44 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=2910&play_clip=Y&rn=5

Cutler interview about getting Marshall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 16, 2012, 11:02:31 pm
Freeney's best days are way behind him at this point. A 2nd rounder for him is too much. Maybe this years 4th and next years 5th or something but I definately wouldn't give alot at all. His prime is definately over....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on March 17, 2012, 07:26:34 am
I would not be happy with Freeny for 2nd.  I might be ok for a 3rd, definitely worth a 4th.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 17, 2012, 10:11:01 am
There is no reason to give them anything more then  a 7th round pick.  Maybe a 6th or 5th if other teams are bidding.  So far it looks like teams are fine waiting to pick him up once he is cut.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 17, 2012, 10:22:32 am
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/beauty-demands-justice-claims-nfl-star-brandon-marshall-punched-face-article-1.1040181?localLinksEnabled=false

Beauty?  Looks more like a crack **** to me.  I don't know wether Marshall really hit her or not but this is definately a money grab.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 17, 2012, 10:45:14 am
Yep - she'll get a settlement...

She should have tried the romantic approach - there's more money in that... ask Kobe
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 17, 2012, 10:48:47 am
Certainly not a very biased article.....


sure, she was not involved in the arguement and Marshall just popped her at random.

Why do I just know she was in his face and he made the stupid mistake of puncher her.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 17, 2012, 10:50:27 am
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/vid_eye_on_beast_punch_ZmJG9Deq8N8jRTu3OzQ6oO

Looks like she has gone into hiding and missed an interview with detectives.  So unless the videos show him hitting her I am guessing all of this is going to be dropped.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 17, 2012, 11:21:45 am
You 've got it Peke, thats what I think. Lack of evidence. He said/she said.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 17, 2012, 11:25:02 am
Sounds like there would be plenty of witnesses
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 17, 2012, 11:55:04 am
Maybe the videos will show who threw the bottle - maybe Mrs. Beast should file a suit
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 17, 2012, 01:39:35 pm
Maybe the video camera will show who threw the bottle.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 17, 2012, 01:51:12 pm

 When it comes to BEARS,

 there has to be controversy.

 Now we are going to take it downtown in the worst sort of way.

 God help you if you are in our way.  >:(
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 17, 2012, 07:41:35 pm
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/nyc.podcast.play.it/media/d0/d0/d1/d0/d3/dF/dN/103FN_3.MP3%3Fauthtok%3D5561722200220762550_7VSBXB7ZVbl9MB3X1s2zX30Lg&podcast_name=Jay+Cutler+with+Zach+Zaidman&podcast_artist=Zach+Zaidman&station_id=391&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.CHI

A pretty good recent Cutler interview by Zaidman.  There is no video just audio.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 18, 2012, 02:50:35 am

Bears need to sign Okoye.

I don't think Emery is going to give up any more draft picks for veterans.  He still has to build for the future.  And I'd bet he's not finished in free agency.

Bears still could go WR in round 1.  Hill is the intriguing pick and could be developed with Marshall in the lineup.  The other sexy pick is the DE from Illinois.  The safe/boring pick is the OT Martin if available.

I could see the Bears go with any of those 3 positions in round 1.

Has Laurent Robinson signed with a team yet (I know, another Cowboy)?

Still need another WR, a CB since we only have 2, maybe a FS and a LB though we have a couple FAs from last year and the rookie from last year that was 'injured'.  TE is set with Davis signing.

Oh yeah, the paper talk about Barber getting released.  I'd keep him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 18, 2012, 05:27:28 am
Bears need to sign Okoye.

I don't think Emery is going to give up any more draft picks for veterans.  He still has to build for the future.  And I'd bet he's not finished in free agency.

Bears still could go WR in round 1.  Hill is the intriguing pick and could be developed with Marshall in the lineup.  The other sexy pick is the DE from Illinois.  The safe/boring pick is the OT Martin if available.

I could see the Bears go with any of those 3 positions in round 1.

Has Laurent Robinson signed with a team yet (I know, another Cowboy)?

Still need another WR, a CB since we only have 2, maybe a FS and a LB though we have a couple FAs from last year and the rookie from last year that was 'injured'.  TE is set with Davis signing.

Oh yeah, the paper talk about Barber getting released.  I'd keep him.

 I'd like to see if Floyd falls to us and take him.

 If he's gone then lets protect Cutler and go after the best OL out there.

 For a number 3 lets go secondary since we were ranked 28th ... which means we suuuck.

 We should despite his one mental error at Denver, keep Barber.

 I think an excuse could be found to keep Sam Hurd ... but the last I heard ... he was in jail.  :P
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 18, 2012, 05:32:39 am
Hurd was released right when it came out. He isnt a Bear
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 18, 2012, 05:38:36 am
Whether or not a LT is sexy or boring what matters is that Cuttler is protected. We need to protect our franchise QB. Failure to do so shortens th e shelf life of your QB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 18, 2012, 07:37:55 am
Whether or not a LT is sexy or boring what matters is that Cuttler is protected. We need to protect our franchise QB. Failure to do so shortens th e shelf life of your QB.

Agree totally.  If Martin is there, he should be the pick, hands down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 18, 2012, 09:23:46 am
I would be very surprised if the pick at 19 is anyone other than Hill or Mercilus. Martin will be gone by then.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 18, 2012, 11:04:27 am
I agree.  I think the top OT's will all be gone by the Bears pick.  Bears will probably go WR or DE.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 18, 2012, 11:34:38 am
what if none of the top OT's are there
none of the the top DE's are there
none of the top WR's are there.
what if Poe is there....
Do you take him?
He has tremendous potential.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 18, 2012, 11:36:07 am
In that scenario you take best available.  If that is Poe so be it. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: otto105 on March 18, 2012, 11:45:57 am
Does branden marshall's contract include paying both personalities?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 18, 2012, 12:13:32 pm
I was surprised how few tackles and sacks Poe had last year for all this supposed talent.

No to him.

Dre Kirkpatrick may be a fallback.  I don't follow college much but he is supposed to be a first rounder who can cover the big receivers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 18, 2012, 03:17:48 pm

Whether or not a LT is sexy or boring what matters is that Cuttler is protected. We need to protect our franchise QB. Failure to do so shortens th e shelf life of your QB.

WR, next to QB, is the high profile position on offense.  On defense its DE.  I can make arguments for picking any of the 3 positions in round 1.

I agree.  I think the top OT's will all be gone by the Bears pick.  Bears will probably go WR or DE.

Maybe.  Although some recent mocks have him available at 19.

I read that the Cowboys signed to veteran FA guards to go along with their 3 returning 2nd year interior lineman.  It doesn't appear they will go after G Castro.  Also they signed CB Brodney Pool so they might not target a first round CB. 

They might go after a WR to replace the departed Laurent Robinson or DE where they are weak.  I think they're set at OT.

Not good news for the home team.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 18, 2012, 03:58:35 pm
Hill, Martin, Mercilus and even DeCastro would all have to be off the board before I'd be ok with Kirkpatrick. He's a good fit for our system though, and likely the only CB with a 1st round grade who may still be available. There's also Janoris Jenkins but he is tiny and even more so his personal life is a wreck so I expect Emery to avoid him like the plague.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 18, 2012, 04:24:16 pm
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/02/scouting-the-draft-alabamas-dre-kirkpatrick/

Yapper, if you have a chance take a look at this article and tell what you disagree with.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 18, 2012, 04:24:49 pm
In that scenario you take best available.  If that is Poe so be it. 

Or trade down if that can be worked out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 18, 2012, 04:33:48 pm
quote nfrom NYT scouting blog

Poe should have dominated inferior competition at Memphis, but he didn’t.  He racked up one sack and 22 tackles in all of 2011, including five games in which he posted just a single tackle.  He’s the ultimate boom-or-bust prospect — loaded with potential, but failing to capitalize on it in college.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 18, 2012, 06:00:48 pm
Good analysis of Kirkpatrick and pretty much squares with other evaluations I've seen of him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 18, 2012, 06:28:04 pm
The problem arises when Martin, Floyd and some talented DE is sitting there at 19....we need all three....hmmm
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 18, 2012, 06:43:56 pm
Well this calls for a real honest evaluation of Webb by Tice and Emery.

Webb was playing ok until the latter part of the season when he seemed to have a meltdown.
His inability to lay a hand on Jared Allen took the cake.

If they don't think Webb will at least be average this year while they groom a more talented second rounder they have to take Martin or Mike Adams.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 18, 2012, 09:41:43 pm
Why would Tice admitt failure by dissing Webb? To me it has to be Emery's call. He sees tape. I doubt he is blind. The man has to read scouting reports. He has to know he needs a LT in the worst way. I sure wouldnt show my hand before the draft but I believe there isnt a GM in the league that doesnt know the Bears need a LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 18, 2012, 10:29:21 pm
My wild guess is we'll go LT, if poss, first round, wideout 2nd, and defense the rest of the way.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on March 19, 2012, 06:34:27 am
Any LT's worth trading up for?  Just because Angelo never did it...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 19, 2012, 08:01:45 am
Martin would be worth moving up a few places for but not real far. The 2 best ones are out of our realistic reach.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 19, 2012, 09:33:29 am
Man, it would suck to pass on Hill and then see him wind up with the Packers (bottom of 1st) or the Vikings (top of 2nd).  There is also talk out of Minnesota that the Vikings may trade down from 3, passing on Kalil in favor of more draft picks because they have so many holes to fill and they've done virtually nothing in FA.  If that happens, then one or more of the picks they get in that deal could be packaged to put them in position for Hill, who would essentially give them a WR with the physical tools they haven't had up there since Randy Moss.

But yeah if we can move up for Martin at a reasonable price that would be the strategicially sound move.  It would probably cost us our remaining 3rd rounder, though, and Emery may not be willing to totally sit out the 3rd round since we didn't sign a single starting-caliber player in FA and still have some key positions to upgrade.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 19, 2012, 10:32:02 am
That possibility hasnt gone wasted here. My guess is they take the BPA. And Adams wont last till our 2nd rounder. That means we wont be getting an OT capable of playing much if its true what Emery said that the Bears would be investing bigtime on the line in the draft
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 19, 2012, 10:49:28 am
The thing is that Lovie came out in a Tribune article last week and said that with Carimi and Chris Williams coming back he "likes the guys we've got" on the OL.

Nevermind that:

1) Chris Williams appears to be a chronic medical case who has yet to establish himself as a top-tier player at either OG or OT

2) Carimi has played exactly 6 quarters of NFL football and may very well be a chronic medical case himself

3) Garza has one or maybe two seasons tops left in the tank

4) J'Marcus Webb sucked ass when left by himself against premier rush DEs

Now Lovie Smith is the last person IMO who knows how to evaluate OL play but that's what he's putting out to the public.

But yeah, IMO going with the "guys we've got" on the OL is a hugely risky move that could wind up costing us another year of Cutler's career (or more), and/or a playoff spot if Lovie is wrong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 19, 2012, 10:59:32 am
Asked about adding a lineman, Emery said the Bears will always be searching for depth.  He said they could look at other free agent linemen, and the team will look “very hard” at offensive linemen in the draft.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-beyond-marshall-bears-still-mulling-deals-20120316,0,534068.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 19, 2012, 11:15:30 am
Asked about adding a lineman, Emery said the Bears will always be searching for depth.

The operative word is "depth".  What he's saying here is that they're not going to be targeting new starters at any OL position. In other words, same crew as last year.

He said they could look at other free agent linemen, and the team will look “very hard” at offensive linemen in the draft.

They can "look at" as many OL as they want, but that doesn't guarantee we're actually going to draft any of them.

I think we had better settle ourselves to the fact it will be Webb / C. Williams / Garza / Louis / Carimi and really hope all those guys get better individually and as a unit, and that none of them gets hurt.  Emery, Lovie and Tice appear to be a lot more at ease with our current OL personnel than most Bears fans are.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 19, 2012, 12:08:08 pm
I think we had better settle ourselves to the fact it will be Webb / C. Williams / Garza / Louis / Carimi and really hope all those guys get better individually and as a unit, and that none of them gets hurt.  Emery, Lovie and Tice appear to be a lot more at ease with our current OL personnel than most Bears fans are.

I think that especially true since we have the worst rated OLine in the league.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 19, 2012, 12:22:00 pm
I don't think our OL is as bad as Martz' offense made them look the last two years...  but I also don't think they're good enough that we can just sit back and assume Tice can scheme around the various skill and durability issues represented in our current players.

A good OL is more than the sum of its parts but you still need decent parts.  IMO we're still a "part" or two short.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 19, 2012, 01:12:31 pm
I think Williams and Louis did pretty well last year at G.
I think Carimi did pretty well for the little he played.
Garza I think was an upgrade over Kreutz.
Spencer played well even with a broke arm.

Webb needs some work. I think he has the tools needed, hopefully an offseason with Tice and he can improve.

Honestly it won't be a sexy but if that guard DeCastro is the BPA at 19 I think we should take him.
GBNReport has us getting Martin and that would be awesome.

I'm almost to the point of standing pat and see what falls. We have a lot of holes and depth that needs filling and some guys getting old that need replacing.

I think continuity on the OL will go a long ways.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 19, 2012, 01:18:57 pm
A lot of Bears fans would howl if DeCastro were the pick, but the media folks would probably give the Bears an A+ because a player of DeCastro's caliber at 19 would be a real value...  even if we're 4 or 5-deep on OGs already. 

The really tough sell to Bears fans would be if Hill and DeCastro were both still there and we went with DeCastro.

Maybe I'm wrong but Emery strikes me as the kind of guy who's going to go with value over need more often than not...  i.e., bring in the best players on the board regardless of position, and trust the coaches to find ways to get them on the field.

And BTW don't discount the idea of the Bears taking DeCastro and trying him at LT.  At 6'5 310 he isn't quite as tall as you'd like a prototype LT to be, but he has unusually good feet for an interior guy, his technique is rock-solid and I would think even lacking experience at OT a guy of his caliber could outplay either Webb or Chris Williams pretty much from Day One. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 19, 2012, 01:29:30 pm
Yapp, I agree, Emery isn't on the 2 year plan, he is on the 3-10 year plan.
I think that is why we haven't brought in a Demetrius Bell or any big time FA's.
I  think Marshall was one of those deals where it was too much reward for the risk and we had to go for it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 19, 2012, 01:39:02 pm
New mock draft just out today has Bears taking Quentin Coples, DE UNC at 19.

At 6'6, 284, Coples is practically a clone of Julius Peppers, a prototype 4-3 DE with elite physical ability that hasn't always translated on the field (although he did look very good at the Senior Bowl). Our past track record with highly drafted DEs gives me pause but considering Coples has been rated a Top 10 pick on some boards, that could be a value too good to pass up and especially if we come up empty on DE in FA.  Many mocks had him going to the Bills at 10, but now that they've landed Mario Williams the feeling is that they'll go a different direction in the draft. 

http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012qcoples.php
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 19, 2012, 01:39:47 pm
Well profootballfocus called it the worst in the NFL. The problem was the tackles. They picked on both Louis and Webb. The problem I had with them was that Louis was a OG forced to play out of position. The one that really got nailed was Webb. They nailed him for all the false starts and sacks allowed. We need a bonifide LT and not re-try Williams again at LT. If we dont upgrade the line again it will be Angelo 2.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 19, 2012, 01:44:31 pm
The thing is that Lovie came out in a Tribune article last week and said that with Carimi and Chris Williams coming back he "likes the guys we've got" on the OL.

And Lovie also said Rex was our QB when everybody knew he sucked.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 19, 2012, 02:14:25 pm
Geez... 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/19/donte-stallworth-heads-back-to-new-england/

Patriots have added 3 WRs from FA this last week alone.  We did the Marshall deal and since then as far as WR goes, nada. Crickets. Thumbs up our azzes. 

I mean really Emery, what's going on?  Props for pulling Brandon Marshall but weren't there at least one or two FA WRs out there worth at least a look, too?  Stallworth coming immediately to mind.  Bottom line is we need at least one more WR and preferably 2 (so we can hedge against the loss of Knox and send Hester back to returning full-time).  Right now, if Earl Bennett gets hurt again and/or Brandon Marshall gets hit with a suspension, we're as bad-off as we were last year.  Actually we're worse off if you assume Knox won't be back.

I know this year's draft class is supposed to be deep in WRs but given the other needs we have to address we can probably only spend one draft pick on a WR. Which still leaves us a body or two short unless we've got some amazing untapped talent hanging out on our practice squad. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 19, 2012, 02:47:51 pm
I  think Marshall was one of those deals where it was too much reward for the risk and we had to go for it.

That, and the Cutler connection.  If we don't have Cutler on our team, that deal never gets made.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 19, 2012, 10:32:06 pm
I know we won't get every piece we need in one year but I'm with Yapp on the FA's. We should be getting more help at wideout, definately. We should be looking at adding another wideout AND a lineman via FA, IMO. That would open up the draft for more of a BPA scenario.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 19, 2012, 11:05:49 pm
I'll be the first to admit that the Bears, if given the opportunity, should target a bonafide LT in the draft.  But having said that I still wouldn't have any problems going into 2012 with Webb at LT if the Bears decided to go for a badly needed WR or possibly a DE.

In the olden days they'd put guys like Webb, small school guys, on the taxi squad and give them a couple years to mature.  Instead, Webb, a 7th round draft pick, was thrust into a starting spot at RT early last season, and then without the benefit of any sort of offseason instruction was swapped over to the most difficult O-line position.  And this was after the Bears drafted the freakin' Outland Trophy winner who played LT at a successful major college.  He couldn't beat out Webb.

And did anyone notice that in the Bears last 5 wins with Cutler at Qb - he was sacked a total of 5 times.  So what changed after that?  Cutler out...LG Williams out.  And how many here were complaining about our O-line and our offense at that point?  Bears were putting up 30 points a game and were looking like a solid playoff team.

Yet now, with the everyone expected back healthy, and with proven depth, a new legit #1 WR, and no Martz and his 7 step drops we're all terrified of our O-line's abillity?

Now IF Martin is considered by the Bears to be a solid starter and IF he's available then I have no problem letting Webb move to swing tackle.  May not be a bad move with Carimi's knee.

But if Tice believes that Webb has the potential to get better with an offseason of work I'm fine with that too.  Maybe he's a late bloomer.  I mean, we all think the world of Earl Bennett but how many here thought he was a piece of junk after not playing a lick his rookie season. 

If Webb can just become a solid guy at LT we could certainly use that first rounder to get an explosive player at WR or DE.  I bet you all know the NY Giants receivers and their DEs...but do you know who their LT is?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 19, 2012, 11:19:39 pm
I know we won't get every piece we need in one year but I'm with Yapp on the FA's. We should be getting more help at wideout, definately. We should be looking at adding another wideout AND a lineman via FA, IMO. That would open up the draft for more of a BPA scenario.

Available FA wideouts:
Devin Aromashodu   he's 27 and average 18 ypc with the Vikes
Jerome Simpson he's also 6-2 26 years old 50 for 725 (14.5) and 4 TDs with the Bengals
Mike Sims Walker 6-2 and 27...must have been injured last year but in 2010 had 43 for 562 (13.7) and 7 TDs

Teams may go after these guys after the draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 20, 2012, 08:50:20 am
I wouldn't mind bringing Aromashadu back.  He was in Martz' doghouse from the get-go but the guy has size and some skills.

He may not be interested in giving the Bears another chance though.  Martz and Angelo are gone but Lovie, Tice and Drake are still here so it would depend on how he felt about those guys.   

Those other two...  meh.  Simpson has major character questions, and Sims Walker is OK but doesn't have the speed of Aroma at basically the same size.

The other thing Emery may be doing is biding his time till training camp cuts and picking through those guys...  although by that point it's getting awfully late in the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 20, 2012, 09:27:43 am
I bet with Aroma, whoever throws a 3yr contract in front of him will get a signature right now.
I'm sure he'll catch on with someone after the draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 20, 2012, 10:17:13 am
I bet with Aroma, whoever throws a 3yr contract in front of him will get a signature right now.

That would rule out the Bears.  Emery's M.O. so far for FAs has been 1- and 2-year deals only. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 20, 2012, 10:57:16 am
Which to me, aint a bad idea.  Like what I've seen from the guy, would like to see more. This pause gives me pause. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 20, 2012, 11:02:11 am
I wouldn't mind bringing Aromashadu back.  He was in Martz' doghouse from the get-go but the guy has size and some skills.

Agree but he was dropping passes left and right early in the last season he was here and that's why he was in the doghouse.

But I wouldn't have an issue with him coming back either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 20, 2012, 11:12:33 am
I think it's very possible Martz got inside Aroma's head.  Martz demands a lot of his WRs and Aroma certainly wouldn't be the first one to fold under the pressure.  One of those deals where the harder he tried the worse (drops) it got.

I think if we brought Aroma back in the Tice/Bates scheme, we might be pleasantly surprised. He certainly is as skilled as any WR we'd pick up in the 3rd round or maybe even the 2nd and then we could use that pick on another need.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 20, 2012, 11:22:58 am
I thought the reasons Aroma was in the dog house was because he didnt want to learn all 3 WR positions, and also that he didnt want to go over the middle.  Thats what I recall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 20, 2012, 12:09:30 pm
My problem with Aroma is he seems to wear out his welcome quickly. He only lasted a year in Minny a team starved for quality WRs. It makes you think that the problem is Aroma's and not the teams.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 20, 2012, 12:39:16 pm
Could be.  I'm just thinking of ways to bolster our WR corps with some size and talent cause we haven't picked up any FAs and we've got at most 1 draft pick to throw at the position...  maybe not even that if we trade away our 3rd round pick to move up for a LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 20, 2012, 12:50:51 pm

Aroma got the one start against Detroit in the 2010 opener and was banished to the bench after making 5 catches for 70 some yards.  He did have a drop in the end zone.

Recall the monster game he had in the season ender in 2009 against the Vikings - Cutler appeared to have developed something with him until Martz arrived.

I've seen Aroma go over the middle but I agree that one of his problems was that he didn't want to learn all the WR positions.  Plus I don't think he brings much to special teams which is important if you are not a starter.

Right now we got Marshall and Bennett as starter quality WRs.  Hester and Weems are special teams guys that can dabble at WR.  And there's Sanzenbacher who benefited from defenses ignoring him figuring nobody that small and slow needs their attention.  And Johnny Knox whose probably months away.

I think we need to add another FA like Aroma or those other guys, in addition to drafting a WR in the first 3 rounds just for competition purposes and protection against injuries.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on March 20, 2012, 02:51:15 pm
We still need a TE right?

I wonder what Dusting Lyman is up to these days?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on March 20, 2012, 02:52:58 pm
Maybe give John Allred a call too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 20, 2012, 03:06:49 pm

 No matter what Emery does before the draft ...

 we are in that safe zone that we get WR and OL with the first two picks.

 Thats assuming Emery is not the last GM.  ;D

 Whats Emery's history about DRAFTING UP ?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 20, 2012, 03:33:16 pm
Trading up would probably cost us our 3rd round pick.

So presumably in that scenario we would have leveraged our top 4 draft picks into 3 better starters than we had last year.

- Brandon Marshall (3rd round pick gained in the Olsen trade)

- Whoever we traded up in the 1st to get  (LT?)

- Whoever we drafted in the 2nd round  (WR, DE or CB, assuming Emery, unlike his predecessor, can actually find starting caliber talent in the 2nd)

That's not a bad offseason but IMO it still leaves us a couple of starters short.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 20, 2012, 03:51:21 pm
  I'm just thinking of ways to bolster our WR corps with some size and talent cause we haven't picked up any FAs and we've got at most 1 draft pick to throw at the position...  maybe not even that if we trade away our 3rd round pick to move up for a LT.

Well of course there's one out there that fits that description.....ROY WILLIAMS!!!!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 20, 2012, 04:03:06 pm
I'm getting this bad feeling we just may see RoyBoy back in a Bears uni next year.  Especially if the draft doesn't fall the way we had hoped at that position.

I mean...  no one at Halas Hall has said they're going to re-sign him...  but no one has officially come out and said they won't, either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 20, 2012, 04:29:55 pm

 HINES WARD retired today ...

 now comparing him to Roy Williams ...  ???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 20, 2012, 04:51:57 pm
Titans signed Kam Wimbley...  5 yrs, $35 Mil, $13.5 Mil guaranteed.

Looks like Emery's FA shopping is about done. Forte's tag put a big dent in how much money we could offer other upper-tier guys, but letting him walk wasn't really an option either.

I've seen some griping about why we spent so much of our cap re-signing our own guys but it's clear to me that Emery is setting Lovie up to either succeed or fail with essentially the same cast of characters plus Marshall and whoever we land in the draft.  If Lovie can't get it done this year, then in 2013 he'll be fired and a lot of those guys that Emery just extended on 1- and 2-year deals  (Izzy, Steltz, Jennings, Kellen Davis, etc.) will be let go.  And THAT's when you'll see Emery rebuild the roster according to his vision (and in coordination with the new HC).

There are a lot of Bears (players and coaches) whose jobs are literally on the line this year and so while I still expect talent to be lacking at certain positions, I'm quite sure motivation won't be.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 20, 2012, 05:14:36 pm
Titans signed Kam Wimbley...  5 yrs, $35 Mil, $13.5 Mil guaranteed.

Looks like Emery's FA shopping is about done. Forte's tag put a big dent in how much money we could offer other upper-tier guys, but letting him walk wasn't really an option either.

I've seen some griping about why we spent so much of our cap re-signing our own guys but it's clear to me that Emery is setting Lovie up to either succeed or fail with essentially the same cast of characters plus Marshall and whoever we land in the draft.  If Lovie can't get it done this year, then in 2013 he'll be fired and a lot of those guys that Emery just extended on 1- and 2-year deals  (Izzy, Steltz, Jennings, Kellen Davis, etc.) will be let go.  And THAT's when you'll see Emery rebuild the roster according to his vision (and in coordination with the new HC).

There are a lot of Bears (players and coaches) whose jobs are literally on the line this year and so while I still expect talent to be lacking at certain positions, I'm quite sure motivation won't be.



 We arent in charge ... but they will be.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 21, 2012, 02:46:34 pm
I don't know about anyone else, but I am very much looking forward to watching Brandon Marshall knock some Packer CBs on their azzes when they try to mug him off the line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 21, 2012, 03:06:56 pm
While I cant take credit for writing this, its from Pompei's mailbag:

Don't you find it odd that the Bears have not signed any free-agent offensive lineman? NFL Network has been saying that is the biggest need besides wide receiver. Can Brandon Marshall catch passes from Cutler if he's lying on his back? Aleck Rinaldo, Rockford

I think the Bears' perception of their offensive line is not the same as the public's perception of their offensive line. Offensive coordinator Mike Tice and coach Lovie Smith believe they can win with the linemen they have. The plan is to help the linemen more by not putting them is such difficult positions. That being said, I'd have no problem with this team drafting a left tackle in the first round if the right one were on the board.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 21, 2012, 03:11:49 pm
Well irregardless, I would like to see Emery make a practice of drafting at least one O-Lineman with one of our first 3 draft picks, EVERY YEAR.  Starting this year.

Considering you have to keep 5 starting positions staffed AND have quality depth, that's not overkill by any stretch and especially when you have a franchise QB that you presumably want to keep healthy and happy for the next few years.

The deterioriation of the Bears OL talent on Angelo's watch (and the ridiculously bad protection afforded to Cutler because of it) has been a punchline around the league for the last several years.  I don't ever want to see the Bears in that position again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 21, 2012, 03:20:08 pm
I can tell you that I will be madder than 6 hornets with war paint on if Martin is on the board and we pass for a WR.  I am not saying we cant use another good WR, but the need isnt pressing enough to bypass a solid LT at #19.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 21, 2012, 03:25:34 pm
I mean Tice is the OL guy, maybe it was more Martz gameplan than the OL guys.
I mean think about it, he did help offenses for all of the teams he worked for but the only one he really set on fire was STL, in a dome with a really good LT and real talent at the skill positions.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 21, 2012, 03:32:09 pm
My concern with our current apparent starting 5 is that there's only one guy out of the 5 (RG Lance Louis) that doesn't have a major question mark attached.

LT Webb - Footwork, game awareness / focus

LG Chris Williams - Durability  (medical issues in college and has missed multiple games 3 seasons out of 4)

C Garza - Age  (turns 33 next week)

RT Carimi - Durability  (medical issues in college and missed 14 games last year)

So even if this starting 5 can jell and be a solid unit in Tice's system, how long till age, injury or too many mental breakdowns forces at least one of them back out of the lineup... and do we have any quality depth for when that happens?  What I saw last year from the likes of Edwin Williams tells me we don't.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 21, 2012, 04:42:12 pm
Spencer played very well with a broken hand.  So there is some depth.  Hopefully they will draft someone to replace Omiyale as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 21, 2012, 08:35:06 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=2911&play_clip=Y&rn=17

Cutler and Marshall interview.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 21, 2012, 10:03:27 pm
Just cutting OmihowbadamI upgraded the line, lol!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 21, 2012, 10:17:12 pm
LMAO, Seachickens signed Omiyale. They're gonna wish they had kept Gallery about 2 days into training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on March 21, 2012, 10:18:36 pm
For you cap experts  http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4675576/breaking-down-the-bears-new-contracts
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 22, 2012, 08:14:14 am
Dont forget the 7 mill franchise tag to Forte. While I believe the Bears still have money left they spent about 18 Mill just on Forte and Marshall
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 08:55:37 am
Good article Hiber.

Now I understand the Jason Campbell deal a lot better.  Lot of people wondering why he came to the Bears when he could have likely landed a starting gig with another team, but then you see that we guaranteed nearly 2/3 of his contract (via the $2 mil signing bonus) and it makes a lot more sense.  If he winds up playing this year and does well, he cashes in huge with a starter's contract from another team next year.  If Cutler stays healthy, he pockets a nice chunk of change for a year of standing on the sidelines with his body none the worse for wear.  It's a total win-win for him. 

As for the Bears, if you go strictly by base salary than 1.4 mil for a quality backup QB isn't bad at all.

One other thing...  I recall after we signed Campbell, Emery saying in an interview that one thing they really liked about him was he was a big guy (6'5, 230) with a strong arm and he said that's important since we're an outdoor team that plays in the cold and wind.  And I thought, wow, how refreshing, a GM who actually understands what kinds of players are a good fit for this team, and goes out to find them.  A very nice change indeed and nice to finally have QBs on the roster who look the part after McNown, Stenstrom, Shame Matthews, Grossman, Burriss, Kordell, etc. etc.     
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 09:00:51 am
Scratch this guy off the list:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/report-mike-wallace-told-49ers-he-wants-more-than-larry-fitzgerald/

6' WR thinks a team should pay him more than Larry Fitz is getting, AND give up their 1st round pick for him?!?

 ::)

NFW.  Dude is either delusional or has been drinking that poisoned Pittsburgh water for too long.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 22, 2012, 09:59:51 am
Hey! Iron city isn't half bad.  Oh wait, that's fermented killing all the germs.  Never mind.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 22, 2012, 10:55:52 am

Bears sign HB Bush - 4 year deal.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on March 22, 2012, 11:05:50 am
4 years, 14 million
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 22, 2012, 11:07:42 am
That would mean a Barber launching is imminent. Someone will have to guide him to his bus, as he has a tendency to wander outside of defined boundries at the wrong time. Hm. His screwups did cost him his job. wow.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 22, 2012, 11:11:43 am

I don't think so - this is more protection for the Bears inability to sign a deal with Forte. 

Forte just turned 26 and Bush will be 28 in June. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 22, 2012, 11:18:07 am
with 7M guaranteed.
i wonder is it 4 3.5M deals
with the 1st 2 years guaranteed

or is it a 7M signing bonus at 1.75 each year and 1.75 base salary?
I hope it is 1st 2 years guaranteed as it keeps us from having a cap hit if we cut him after 2 yrs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 22, 2012, 11:36:32 am
I think I read some blurb about Forte beating out Cutler for the cover of Madden, maybe that is why.  :)  Fingers crossed that doesnt happen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 11:53:54 am
This is a good signing, even if the price tag seems a bit high for a backup.

Bush is a big strong dude that can shed tackles and move the pile. No way is he a potential replacement for Forte, but he is a great complimentary back.

My initial thought as well was that this means curtains for Barber, and that's probably how it will play out though you could also make a case for keeping Forte, Bush and Barber and dumping Bell.  Who this signing really hurts is that big kid from BYU who's been with us a couple years and has yet to get on the field. I don't see him sticking through training camp and that's assuming he even lasts on the roster that long.

Cutler / Campbell and Forte / Bush give us the best QB and RB tandems in the division if not the league.  Well done, Mr. Emery.  Now do the same good work at WR, OL and DE and we'll be in a position to make some noise this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 12:02:07 pm
It's also encouraging that two quality players (Campbell and Bush) have chosen the Bears knowing they'd be backups, rather than going to another team where they could have been in the mix to start.   Maybe, just maybe, Emery is already effecting some change in the perception of the Bears organization and if that's the case, that would be huge.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 12:04:57 pm
His screwups did cost him his job. wow.

Accountability at Halas Hall?  Maybe...  and about damn time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 22, 2012, 12:12:40 pm
I don't think Barber is out the door with the Bush signing but Bell is the odd man out.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 22, 2012, 12:17:27 pm
Bears sign Michael Bush

 Posted by Michael David Smith on March 22, 2012, 11:56 AM EDT
 
AP
Michael Bush is heading to Chicago.
 
Bush, a free agent running back who has played his entire career with the Raiders, has agreed to terms on a deal with the Bears. A league source tells PFT’s Mike Florio that the deal is a four-year, $14 million contract with $7 million guaranteed. At an average of $3.5 million a year, that’s the best deal a free-agent running back has received this year.
 
That also shows that the market just isn’t very good for running backs these days. Bush did well for himself relative to the overall running back market, but the deal isn’t much better than a couple of kickers, Olindo Mare and Ryan Longwell, signed last year: Both got $12 million over four years.
 
So the Bears get Bush without breaking the bank, and that’s a bad sign for Matt Forte on multiple fronts: Bush’s presence means Chicago won’t be desperate to get Forte in the fold, and the overall running back market means Forte can’t expect much out of a long-term deal. That’s life for running backs in the NFL these days.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 12:47:36 pm
I don't think Barber is out the door with the Bush signing but Bell is the odd man out.

Maybe.  To me, Forte / Bush / Barber sounds better than Forte / Bush / Bell but I thought we just re-signed Bell too. And I really doubt we carry 4 RBs.

The other question I have is, with Tice and the re-worked offense, are the Bears gonna sign an actual FB?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 22, 2012, 12:50:54 pm
We still have Tyler Clutts as our FB don't we?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 22, 2012, 12:54:37 pm
I think Barber and Bush are similar and Bell and Forte are similar.
I expect us to keep Bell and cut ties with Barber because he costs more.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 12:56:57 pm
Oh yeah, forgot about Clutts.

The one thing the Bears OL was pretty decent at (when our starting 5 was all healthy), was run blocking. Now, you put a guy like Bush behind a good run blocking OL and our odds for winning TOP go up quite a bit.  Especially late in the game. Considering we have probably lost at least 3 or 4 games a year (on average) during the Lovie regime because we couldn't protect a 4th quarter lead, the prospect of being able to pound it on the ground for 6 or 7 minutes at a stretch in the 2nd half is appealing to say the least.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 22, 2012, 12:57:06 pm
I think Barbers days are numbered as a Bear.  They may be trying to trade him for a 7th round pick or something before cutting him loose.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 12:59:23 pm
I think Barber and Bush are similar

Barber is 5'11, 218.

Bush is 6'1, 245.

So physically they're really not the same at all.  But yeah, in terms of role I agree.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 22, 2012, 01:01:07 pm
I'm thinking both are punishing backs that can get tough yards mostly between the tackles.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 22, 2012, 01:01:27 pm
Looking over the roster the weakest positions are OT, DE, WR and (depth, future starters) CB, LBer, S.

We are strongest at RB, QB, C, G, DT.

http://www.chicagobears.com/team/roster.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 22, 2012, 01:11:40 pm
I  like the Bush signing. Two quality RBs.Bell plays ST. I think he is safe. Barber is the odd man out
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 01:13:16 pm
Looking over the roster the weakest positions are OT, DE, WR and (depth, future starters) CB, LBer, S.

We are strongest at RB, QB, C, G, DT.


I completely agree.

OT and WR are still scaring me silly.  Marshall helped the WR situation immensely but we're still short at least 1 good player and probably 2.

And OT... a LT who's a 7th round pick from Backwater U and a RT who lasted all of 6 quarters his rookie season before getting hurt...  are you kidding me?  Man if that's not playing with fire I don't know what is. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 22, 2012, 01:32:34 pm

I like Bush - he's a definite upgrade to Barber/Bell, but I'd have preferred spending the money on another position where we aren't quite as deep or talented.  But the Forte contract appears to be the main reason for this signing - I was fine with the threesome from last year. 

My guess is that Barber is the odd man out.

As for position depth, we aren't in that great of shape at DT right now.    Melton, Toeaina, and Paea...that's it.  We need to re-sign Okoye.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 22, 2012, 01:35:08 pm

Did the Bears give up their pick in the 3rd round for Marshall or did they give up the Carolina 3rd rounderk?  (Both of which improved one slot when the Saints 2nd rounder got taken away).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 01:36:02 pm
We need to re-sign Okoye.

Agree. He did some nice things for us last year and as I recall, he is still very young.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 01:38:58 pm
It was initially reported that Miami got our own 3rd rounder (the lower one) in the Marshall deal but in fact they got the one we got for Olsen (the higher one).

What it means for Miami is that barring any trades, they have back-to-back picks in the 3rd round... 73 and 74 overall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 22, 2012, 01:39:50 pm
I believe we gave up the Carolina 3rd for Marshall
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 22, 2012, 01:43:29 pm

If that's the case then I don't like the trade as much as I previously did.  That Carolina 3rd rounder was a fine pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 01:55:23 pm
I still think it was a great deal.  It would have been a great deal even if it were both our 3rds this year, but better still that one of those picks is deferred till 2013 when we'll hopefully be picking down there at 25 or later.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 22, 2012, 02:10:14 pm
Forte not happy after Bears sign Michael Bush

 Posted by Evan Silva on March 22, 2012, 2:45 PM EDT
 
AP
The Bears’ Wednesday signing of running back Michael Bush was at first perceived as a sort of insurance policy for unsigned franchise player Matt Forte. Bush could be Forte’s backup, giving Chicago a starting-capable runner in the event of another Forte injury, and also provide the Bears with some negotiating leverage in long-term contract talks with Forte.
 
But perhaps there’s more to it. Perhaps the Bears don’t want to sign Forte long term, at all.
 
Forte certainly isn’t happy, and he let his feelings be known on Twitter Thursday afternoon.
 
“There’s only so many times a man that has done everything he’s been asked to do can be disrespected!” Forte tweeted. “Guess the GOOD GUYs do finish last.”
 
Forte has played hard for the Bears, handling heavy workloads and playing through a knee injury in 2009. But he hasn’t exactly played the role of good soldier. He’s gone on ESPN repeatedly to voice his frustration about his contract demands, which the Bears have offered a guaranteed salary of $7.778 million to satisfy.
 
But Forte wants much, much more, and he’s gone out of his way time and time again to let it be known.
 
Forte’s agent even chimed in on Thursday.
 
“To sign yet another running back, prior to completing a contract with Matt, suggests disregard for Matt and his contributions to the Bears,” said Forte’s agent, per ESPN Chicago’s Mike Wright.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on March 22, 2012, 02:14:05 pm
Trade Forte...let him take his whining elsewhere. He was offered a good contract and turned it down. Screw him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 02:24:48 pm
If we're gonna trade Forte, Emery had best be doing it sooner than later cause the value of RBs across the league is dropping by the day.

At this point I'm not sure we could get a 2nd round pick for him and that will probably be down to a 3rd by draft day.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 22, 2012, 02:49:20 pm
If I am Emery I think I would be willing to let him and his agent shop around for a trade offer and contract.  I think it might just bring some sense to them. 

They have been offered some very nice contracts and they keep turning them down.  I don't think any team is going to pay him like Chris Johnson/Adrian Peterson got paid and that seems to be what he thinks he is worth.  He simply is not worth much more then what he has already been offered and has turned down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 22, 2012, 03:11:53 pm
Agree with all the above.  Time to move on.  I got spoiled by Walter Payton and Neal Anderson, the RB today is really getting busted into a million pieces a lot quicker.  Forte is really good.  But not really,really good.  If you know what I mean. See where Alex Smith resigned, smart move.  Matt may want to look at that as opposed to a Chris Johnson type of harangue.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 22, 2012, 03:21:02 pm
it is really early in the offseason, it's not like Forte has threatened to sit out.
Forte whines and always comes in and plays like a good soldier.

let's not worry until we have a reason.
If I was a team in the 1st round though wanting a running back I think I would choose Forte over Richardson.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 22, 2012, 04:13:12 pm
How much fricking money does he want? He's been offered a darned good deal and sniffed at it. If he doesn't like it, then yes time to move on. We need some help on the Oline and I'd really like to see something positive, other than the VERY positive ditching of OMI, like addition not subtraction, lol.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 22, 2012, 04:13:48 pm
I disagree Nav.  I'd take Richardson over Forte in a heartbeat.

But I agree with what you said about the folks whining about Forte feeling the way he does.  He's allowed to feel the way he does because from day 1 he's laid it out on the line.  Let's see how things work out toward camp than what he says before the draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 22, 2012, 04:20:23 pm
Between Richardson and Forte, Richardson is the better pure runner by far.  In fact if he can stay healthy I think he will establish himself as a Top 5 RB in the league by the end of his rookie season.

Forte OTOH is a true dual threat because of what he brings as a receiver.  In several games during his career he has led all Bears in catches, receiving yardage or both. RBs either have it or they don't when it comes to receiving (see Cedric Benson). A RB who really "gets" the air game is a rare commodity and can be a very potent weapon if the OC knows how to use him.

What I'm saying is it's kind of apples to oranges when you're talking Richardson and Forte cause their skill sets are so different.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 22, 2012, 04:26:55 pm
Well, according to fox sports he's less than thrilled with the rb signing ("furious" I think was the operative word).  Couple of notches away from whining IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 22, 2012, 05:40:00 pm

Yeah, well Briggs has whined his way to a few pro bowls.   Anybody upset we didn't take the Skins offer of him for somebody named Rocky?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 22, 2012, 09:06:58 pm

 Clutzzz is a FULLBACK.

 Forte

 Bush

 Bell

 Are power runners.

 Barber ... you gave Tebow his job in NEW YORK CITY.

 He owes you dude.  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on March 22, 2012, 09:32:12 pm
I hope that we can sign Forte long term but I think it's a little misleading when they discuss the percentage of our offense he was responsible for. A large part of the reason for his high percentage was due to the total lack of receivers. He is a good back but not an elite back. He wouldn't have as many touches if we hadn't sucked so bad in our passing game. I think the 6 yr. 36 mil with 14 mil guaranteed was a reasonable offer. He is not Adrian Peterson and is not worth that kind of money.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on March 22, 2012, 09:33:21 pm
Well, according to fox sports he's less than thrilled with the rb signing ("furious" I think was the operative word).  Couple of notches away from whining IMO.

Tweeting thst "I guess the good guy does finish last" is whining.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 22, 2012, 09:41:03 pm

 I think we all know Forte will be taken care of at 7.7 mil.

 If he wants to **** about that and wants to be traded ...

 then you gave it your best Matt.

 But you just walked off of a SUPERBOWL winner.

 No sweetheart ... we are CHICAGO motherfuuckin BEARS ...

 and we know when the time is ripe.

 Just like the 49ers with Harbough did last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 22, 2012, 09:42:15 pm
Plus he had three TD's last year.  3!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 22, 2012, 09:42:52 pm
Forte should take the deal he was offered and shut the F**K up!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 22, 2012, 09:59:49 pm
Forte should take the deal he was offered and shut the F**K up!

 Well theres no argument there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 22, 2012, 10:22:24 pm
No sympathy for professional athletes worried about not getting enough millions.

There are fathers who have had to move the family in with the inlaws after losing their job, elderly who can't afford medication and food, single parents........

And the professional athlete not getting respect.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 23, 2012, 12:30:39 am
No sympathy for professional athletes worried about not getting enough millions.

There are fathers who have had to move the family in with the inlaws after losing their job, elderly who can't afford medication and food, single parents........

And the professional athlete not getting respect.

 I think most of us would agree that when it comes to turning your family out on the street,

 or having the money go to athletes ...

 you gotta go with whats best for the team.

 You can make more children ... get busy !

 Forte is a one of a kind.

 - cruelheartless jackie
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 23, 2012, 12:34:21 am
No sympathy for professional athletes worried about not getting enough millions.

Yeah, I know and I hate that rock stars, actors, entertainers all are getting millions too.  This is America - everyone's goal is to maximize their earnings.  Why should Forte be criticized for trying to maximize his?

I got spoiled by Walter Payton and Neal Anderson, the RB today is really getting busted into a million pieces a lot quicker.  Forte is really good.  But not really,really good.

I saw them play and Forte is easily the 3rd best Bears HB I've ever seen play (I never saw Sayers in his prime).   If he can stay healthy he could end up more productive than Anderson.  Unfortunately for Anderson, he was 'red-shirted' by the Bears early in his career and was busted up at around 26/27 years old.

He wouldn't have as many touches if we hadn't sucked so bad in our passing game. I think the 6 yr. 36 mil with 14 mil guaranteed was a reasonable offer. He is not Adrian Peterson and is not worth that kind of money.


Forte gained yardage despite defenses and particularly safeties not having to worry about guys like Roy Williams, Sanzenbacher, and Hester for most of the season.  And yet he still gained yards on the ground at almost a 5 yards clip behind a line that many claim is the worst in the NFL.

I don't know what he was offered but I'm hoping the Bears are offering something fair - they did get him for cheap for 4 years.  And Forte also has to realize the cap situation and how his contract hurts the Bears ability to sign additional players that can help the team.

As for the Adrian Peterson comparison.  No he's not Adrian Petersen, but actually last year he was better than Adrian Peterson in most categories.  Petersen sits down on 3rd down (18 catches in 2011) - Forte had 52!


I heard the same crap from this board a couple years back about Briggs when he was complaining much more than Forte is now - Briggs was tagged and later signed and I don't hear anyone here complaining that we overpaid Briggs or we should have traded him.

Granted Forte is a HB and at 26 no one knows when the wheels will fall off.   Could he be like Neal Anderson or maybe he can be productive longer...maybe along the lines of a Marcus Allen.

I just hope this all gets resolved - the Bears offensively have the potential to be something special that we haven't seen from since last century.





Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 23, 2012, 01:01:59 am
Its been reported that Forte was offered a better deal than Jamaal Charles.
 
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/6915224/chicago-bears-offer-matt-forte-14m-guaranteed-sources-say
 
Here are the stats from them 09 and 10. not counting 2011 because both got injured and contracts were offered before  2011.

Charles
 
2687 rushing yards
 
6.15 YPC (insane)
 
765 receiving yards
 
3452 total yards
 
505 touches
 
16 Total TD's
 
Forte
 
1998 Rushing yards
 
4.02 YPC
 
1018 receiving yards
 
603 touches
 
3016 total yards
 
13 total TD's
 
Forte has more touches, less TD's and less yards and he turned down a better offer than Charles received. Anyone who thinks that is not a fair deal is an idiot.

 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 23, 2012, 01:02:57 am
Forte had some nice numbers in 2012 but he had 3 TD's. 

THREE!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 23, 2012, 01:21:43 am
Forte is a good pass blocker, runs for average, good hands catches the ball, doesn't fumble much, but no he's not strong in short yardage.

(Even Walter Payton wasn't perfect - he wasn't the fastest in the open field).

So you give a guy like Barber or Bush that duty - quite common throughout the league.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 23, 2012, 01:33:17 am
I want the Bears to re-sign Forte.  I think he is a damn good running back and a good guy. 

However I feel the Bears have given him a very fair offer.  I am frustrated that he thinks he should be paid like a top three back. 

He simply is not that guy and never will be.  He has already peaked.  He is a very good back that lands in the second tier of the NFL.  Albiet at the very top of that second tier.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 23, 2012, 01:37:58 am
Forte was offered the same as Charles and turned it down and played for 400,000 cause he thought that he was going to get bank.

What it comes down to is his agent sucks and he is not being real bright listening to him and/or not replacing him.  He could have said accept the deal.  I am guessing this guy has told him he should be the highest paid RB in the league.  Forte is buying it.

Forte should have taken the deal last year.  Now he is just ****ed he played for 400,000 last year and the offer did not go up that much.  Is that the Bears fault?  No it is his agents ans his fault because they are being stupid. 



Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 23, 2012, 01:47:10 am
We don't know what Emery has offered because Emery is a professional and does not leak news.

We can only assume the offer went up from the one Angelo gave because now the Bears have to pay almost 8 million this year versus 400k last year.  It is evident to me Forte and his agent want a whole lot more money then the Bears or any team feel he is worth.  I hope I am wrong and the new deal is signed tomorrow.

 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on March 23, 2012, 09:15:17 am
Forte is being misled by his agent and going down a slippery slope. Here's hoping he'll wise up and understand he the team has been made BETTER by the Bush signing. Complaining about only making 500K per game (how much is that over his total salary last year ?) when he turned down a pretty sweet offer already last year that was even BETTER only shows his perspective is skewed.

Here's hoping this was an out of character outburst of frustration by him. He only has himself (and those enablers around him) to blame......
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 23, 2012, 01:57:27 pm
Marion Barber just retired.  Yikes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 23, 2012, 02:02:58 pm
And Corey Graham signed with the Ravens.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 23, 2012, 02:36:06 pm
Marion Barber just retired.  Yikes.

No big deal, we just signed his replacement.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 23, 2012, 03:22:44 pm
And pretty much forgone conclusion Graham was gone, hence the st signings.  The Bear got it covered (gasp!).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on March 23, 2012, 03:28:19 pm
Is there any cap help for us with Barber retiring rather than being cut?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 23, 2012, 03:35:35 pm

Too bad Barber will forever be remembered for that Denver out of bounds gaffe - but I'd have kept him this year if not for the Bush signing.  He was excellent in short yardage and was surprisingly good at catching passes in the flat.  And he never fumbles - well almost never.

I don't think there is any more benefit to the cap if a player retires or is cut.  But there is a cap benefit with Barber's departure.

Corey Graham was an ace STs player.   So was Tim Shaw...so was Ayenbadejo.   The Ravens actually gave Ayenbadejo a starting gig at LB - but I'd be surprised if Graham starts for that defense. 

And BTW last time I looked Tim Shaw was an available FA - but the Bears preferred Costanza.  Both are similar in size and age.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 23, 2012, 08:39:34 pm
Good work by Emery to cover the losses of Graham and Barber. Guy is doing pretty much everything right so far.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 23, 2012, 10:05:48 pm
Lets hope he keeps it up in the draft.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 24, 2012, 07:54:18 am
The article on the Tribune site hinted that Graham might play safety.
Too bad we couldn't get him more playing time, he got 3 INTS in 3 games for us last year filling in at nickle.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 24, 2012, 08:04:22 am
Pretty surprised that Barber retired. He seemed to have alot left in the tank. Maybe he wasn't looking forward to being pushed in camp by Bush and the others. Too many spoons in the same pot I guess.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 24, 2012, 08:28:09 am
Maybe they told him they were going to cut him so he decided to retire rather then look for another team.  Or maybe he had told the Bears he was planning on retiring and that is why they went out and signed Bush.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 24, 2012, 08:58:09 am
Barber wouldn't make the team with the Bush signing.

Could see last year he had lost a lot of the energy in his legs.

I don't see Bell offering that much now.  WE need a change of pace speed back in the late rounds or UDFA.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 24, 2012, 09:06:19 am
I want the Bears to re-sign Forte.  I think he is a damn good running back and a good guy. 

However I feel the Bears have given him a very fair offer.  I am frustrated that he thinks he should be paid like a top three back. 

He simply is not that guy and never will be.  He has already peaked.  He is a very good back that lands in the second tier of the NFL.  Albiet at the very top of that second tier.

Exactly!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on March 24, 2012, 09:11:46 am
I think numerical rankings are bogus for things in the NFL. I think the best you can do is rate players/teams by whether they are in the top 1/3, middle 3rd or bottom 3rd.

Forte I think is a top 1/3 league player. At least pre-injury......
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 24, 2012, 09:30:53 am
Forte should make a full recovery.  He should lose no speed or agility.  It is only when they have to have them surgicaly repaired does that become an issue.

He was able to play in the pro bowl so if there was an issue with them not healing correctly I doubt he would have played in that game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 24, 2012, 09:57:53 am
Maybe they told him they were going to cut him so he decided to retire rather then look for another team.  Or maybe he had told the Bears he was planning on retiring and that is why they went out and signed Bush.

Thats what I am thinking. So they told him to wait till they found somebody( because a shortage drives the asking price up). So as soon as they anounced the signing he anounces his retirement.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 24, 2012, 10:02:28 am
I hope Forte comes to camp in the shape he was in last year.  If he does he will excel again.  I just hope he doesnt show up out of shape.  Then he will get hurt again for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 24, 2012, 12:42:21 pm

Could see last year he had lost a lot of the energy in his legs.

One thing Barber never lacked was energy - he wasn't the fastest guy in the league but he ran with his hair on fire.   In fact, I was surprised how effective he was in non-short yardage situations.  And he was a flat out beast near the goal line.

I really have no idea why he retired - he certainly could have found another team with his skill set. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 24, 2012, 12:47:34 pm
No doubt.  He was running very hard.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 24, 2012, 01:11:17 pm
His back flip landings were getting low marks from the judges
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 24, 2012, 05:55:55 pm
Dallas, when Barber first played last year I couild tell he was  a little slower that whe he played for the Cowboys.

He was still a back with the same qualities but I think he lacked some of the burst he had when he was younger.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 24, 2012, 08:45:44 pm

 WHAT ARE WE MAKING?

 The Best. Emery has decided that the big three on Offense are under the belt. QB-WR-RB.

 That leaves OL.

 Has Emery got his ...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XArrdG2t4C4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XArrdG2t4C4)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 25, 2012, 07:29:15 am
Caleb hanie signs with the Broncos.  How in the world does he find work after last season?  Wow...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 25, 2012, 08:33:51 am
Him AND Omi! Omi especially
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 25, 2012, 09:52:37 am
http://www.theheckler.com/2012/03/22/forte-graduates-from-lance-briggs-whining-academy-with-magna-cry-loud-honors/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=forte-graduates-from-lance-briggs-whining-academy-with-magna-cry-loud-honors
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 25, 2012, 11:44:31 am
LOL!! Funny!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 25, 2012, 02:13:15 pm
“So I missed a few games last year. Whatever, that’s no reason to disrespect me and sign some dude as insurance,” said Forte. “Look, if I go down, the whole team should go down. I also deserve to make 200 times more than every Bears fan out there, and you can print that!”

Hmmmm! Now isnt the President of the United States a big Bears fan? I think I heard that. So Forte is worth 200 times what the President makes? Somehow I dont like that idea. And arent the McCaskets Bears fans?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 25, 2012, 04:02:13 pm
LOL!  Wshful you do realize it is a satirical article and Forte never actually said that right?  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 25, 2012, 05:46:02 pm
Oh, no I didnt know. The quotation marks sure faked me out
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 25, 2012, 06:13:15 pm
Sorry.  I thought the name of the link would tip people off. 

The name of the website was "The Heckler".  I should have mentioned it was a joke though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 25, 2012, 07:02:39 pm
I just added 2 and 2 and got 5 out of it. I saw Heckler too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 25, 2012, 11:24:25 pm

 Oh shiit lets cut to the chase ...

 Barber retires ... take that money and give it to Forte.

 We have the best backfield with Forte - Bush - Bell ...

 then ANYTHING else in the NFC North.

 All Forte has to do is except that & Halas Hall has to reject the Pats offer for a second and fourth for him.

 Forte has earned the right to be a first round trade ...

 but not as low as N.E. with the 31 pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: otto105 on March 25, 2012, 11:29:52 pm
Forte is gone, unless the bears are forced to overpay for him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 26, 2012, 12:35:06 am
Forte is gone, unless the bears are forced to overpay for him.

 Youd like him on your team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 26, 2012, 08:33:43 am
I wouldnt take a 2nd and a 4th for Forte, nor the Pats #1 either
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 09:20:36 am
Bowman signed with the Vikings.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/26/zack-bowman-signs-with-vikings/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 26, 2012, 10:51:06 am
Trib reporting Knox is in all probability out for all of 2012. I feel bad for the kid, hope he gets back to normal and starts a coaching career.  Meanwhile, gotta get another WR. OBTW that Dolphins owner is nothing but a sour grapes carbunkle on a Elephants hemmorrid.  He can say that all he wants, the deals done.  What a coked out fat eared fat nosed sewage sucking prick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 10:52:26 am
See my post in the 2012 Draft thread.  The article that says Knox is going on the PUP also says Tice and Bates plan to keep using Hester as a WR and even increase his role. 

 ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 26, 2012, 11:26:00 am
Caleb hanie signs with the Broncos.  How in the world does he find work after last season?  Wow...

He's from Colorado isn't he? 

And I think with a better offensive coaching around him he can be capable of being a decent backup.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 26, 2012, 11:27:43 am
I had high hopes for Bowman in his early years - he was quite the ball hawk early on but got in the Lovie doghouse in 2010.

Speaking of CBs - we now have two on the roster not counting our nickel back.  I thought we were looking at Hayden from the Colts - maybe after the draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 11:33:37 am
Is Hayden 5'10 or shorter?  If he is, then he's a lock to be a Bear.

That position is pretty thin right now with the losses of Graham and Bowman.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 26, 2012, 11:55:08 am
I always thought he was a bigger guy - a 6 footer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 12:41:02 pm
The one thing that Emery really has to do when drafting defense is, he needs to be taking a 3-5 year strategic view and drafting guys that are good players irregardless of scheme.

Lovie and his Tampa 2 aren't gonna be around here forever.  I am really concerned that if Emery starts stocking up on Lovie "system players" (small D-Linemen, undersized OLBs and zone CBs), then when we give Lovie the boot we're gonna have to either 1) keep the same outdated scheme with the next DC, OR 2) churn half the defensive roster cause we won't have guys that can function in the new scheme.

That's why I feel Emery should focus this year on upgrading Cutler's supporting cast, let the chips fall where they may on D (other than a DE), and then once we know if Lovie will be back in 2013 we can focus on drafting the players that fit his scheme...  or his replacement's.

No sense risking draft picks on guys who might be useless once Lovie and Marinelli are shown the door.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 26, 2012, 12:50:57 pm

Not sure you can do that.  I don't expect the Bears to draft a 350lb NT.  And we know they probably won't draft a miniature cover CB either. 

Bears already have big DEs but their DTs have always been undersized. 

I just don't see the Bears drafting guys that would also fit a 3-4 defense right now.  Once we switch, if we switch, the Bears will draft and sign players to fit a new defense.  Kind of like what the Pack did when they signed Capers and went to the 3-4.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 12:52:40 pm
Not sure you can do that.  I don't expect the Bears to draft a 350lb NT.  And we know they probably won't draft a miniature cover CB either. 

So that rules out Dontari Poe and Janoris Jenkins.  Which I'm OK with.   8)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 01:23:35 pm
Hmmm....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/26/bengals-to-visit-with-amobi-okoye/

I'd hate to lose this guy.  It would take a really really big raise to pull me from the Bears to the cesspool that is the Bengals, but every player has his price, I guess.  My gut tells me Okoye will re-sign with the Bears...  I hope I'm right. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 26, 2012, 01:30:53 pm
I don't think our scheme requires the DT to be small but it does require him to be quick and have  a good motor.
If he is quick and big/strong that is a bonus.
I think Poe could play in our scheme and do well if he has the motor for it.

I think many of our defensive guys can play in other systems they are just getting old.
I'm not sure if our CB's can play man all day but Peppers, Izzy, Briggs, Urlacher, Wright, Conte, i think they could all play in other schemes.

Melton is a tweener that likely could only play DT in our scheme and he might not be able to play DE in another scheme.


Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 01:44:42 pm
Peppers and Izzy aren't really 3-4 DEs. In fact IIRC the fact that the Bears ran a 4-3 was a big selling point for Peppers when he was a FA. Pretty much our entire contingent of DTs would be useless in a 3-4 because they're too small to play NT and not rangy enough to play DE. Briggs might translate to a 3-4 but Urlacher would be a fish out of water. The DBs would probably be OK but to the extent the 3-4 usually calls for bigger, physical CBs playing man we'd need at least one upgrade there. 

Poe would be an interesting hedge because he could be a Ted Washington type DT in a 4-3 or play NT in a 3-4.  But there is much skepticism about why Poe's incredible measurables did not show up on the field during his college career.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 26, 2012, 02:43:11 pm
I was thinking about other 4-3 (non cover 2) schemes, not really 3-4, you make a good point.
I would agree that Peppers as a 3-4 DE would be a waste. I think he could do it, I think Izzy would be fine as a 3-4 DE. It seems like when he was an FA the NYJ wanted him to play DE for them. We don't have any DT's that could play NT.
I think Urlacher could play in the 3-4. He might get abused by OL at times but he is smart enough and is athletic enough.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 04:32:52 pm
Man I hope the Packers don't wind up with this guy.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/26/packers-next-to-host-demetrius-bell/

They already got a pretty good C in Jeff Saturday.  We already can't get to Rogers the way it is and if the Pack keeps improving their OL you can pretty much mark them down as 2 losses for the Bears in 2012.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 26, 2012, 04:55:31 pm

Talk of shifting to a 3-4 or a new defense is way too premature.   Emery would be doing a disservice to the Bears drafting players that don't fit the team's scheme.

Bears better be ready to counter offer the Bengals - we need Okoye.  Otherwise we're going to be in a similar situation as we are in CB.   I don't want to have to add DT to the growing list of needs:  WR, OT, CB, DE, ...

Teams always say you can't haven enough CBs and the way the Bears depend on pressure from their DTs the same could be said of that position too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 05:00:13 pm
Teams always say you can't haven enough CBs and the way the Bears depend on pressure from their DTs the same could be said of that position too.

Exactly, and especially since our DTs are undersized guys that tend to wear down at the ends of games (and the season) if we don't have enough bodies in the rotation.

Really no excuse not to make a valid effort to keep Okoye, especially since he did good things in limited run last year and is only 24 yrs old.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 26, 2012, 05:04:57 pm

Here's a reason NOT to sign Okoye.  Check out this mock from Ourlads (don't recall them doing mocks - they're a good source for historical draft stats):

http://ourlads.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/

And for those of you too lazy to click it:

19 Chicago  Michael Brockers*   DT     LSU      6050   322   5.00
Brockers will help get push up the middle to force the ball to the edges and to Julius Peppers. Red shirt soph.Started 14 games in his career. In 2011 had 9.5 tackles for loss.He had 6 tackles in the SEC Championship game vs Georgia


They have us passing on Hill (he's not even in the first round) and Mercillus - Martin goes 13 to the Cards.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 05:08:08 pm
I don't know about that Brockers guy. Some scouts had him as a Top 10 pick before the combine, but since then his stock has dropped a lot.  In fact 19 is the highest I've seen him going in any of the mocks recently. 

Strikes me as a huge development project...  a guy that might take 2-3 years to return some sort of impact and we don't have that kind of time.

OTOH he's one of those guys that could transition to a 3-4 DE pretty easily if that's where the Bears decided to go post-Lovie.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on March 26, 2012, 05:28:59 pm
Is this a red flag to only me?  "Started 14 games in his career"
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 26, 2012, 05:52:42 pm
It's a red flag to me. He's a guy that surprised a lot of people when he declared for the draft this year. He wasnt even in a lot of the early mocks cause everyone thought he'd stay at LSU for another year of seasoning.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 26, 2012, 06:19:33 pm
Man I hope the Packers don't wind up with this guy.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/26/packers-next-to-host-demetrius-bell/

They already got a pretty good C in Jeff Saturday.  We already can't get to Rogers the way it is and if the Pack keeps improving their OL you can pretty much mark them down as 2 losses for the Bears in 2012.

I'm pretty sure that you can mark Clifton gone next season, yap.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on March 26, 2012, 07:12:26 pm
I can't believe we have all this talk about 3-4 Defense.  Personally I think that defense is going to die out over the next few years.  With the rule changes which favor the passing game, if you can't pressure the QB you don't win.  Why did the Giants win it all, defensive pressure...which defense do they run???....answer not the 3-4.

Emery needs to make sure he puts the best team on the field without sacrifing the future (i.e. future draft picks, $$ on FA contracts).  If we draft a kid who is a bad ass DE in 4-3 scheme and we change scheme later, there is always this thing called a trade.  Let's not lock ourselves into taking certain players that fit all schemes.  Let's draft/sign the players that give us the best chance to win!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 26, 2012, 07:18:34 pm
Personally with all the 3-4 D's in the league I believe running a 4-3 is an advantage.  Teams spend more time practicing against the 3-4 and more teams are battling for 3-4 talent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 26, 2012, 07:22:52 pm
The 3-4 took advantage of all the good tweeners that have been readily available the past several years,
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 26, 2012, 07:29:27 pm
That's true but when 3/4's of the league is running the 3-4 then the 4-3 defenses get the advantage of having more available talent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 26, 2012, 09:25:44 pm
Don't forget Paea.

The last couple of games he was getting some penetration and made a few plays after being overwhelmed as a rookie.

He has the tools to be really good in our scheme.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 26, 2012, 09:42:23 pm
I thought he was going to be a bust but he did come on strong once he suposedly got healthy. If I recall right he didnt come to training camp healthy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 26, 2012, 10:37:39 pm
I think Paea got buried on the depth chart for whatever reason.  Glad to see him get some time later...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 27, 2012, 02:53:27 am

 We were 6th against the RUN ... and 28th against the PASS.

 That was with a crippled Offense.

 It's amazing we had any DEFENSE at all being left on the field all day.

 You give me Floyd from ND and two OL with our next two picks ...

 I will plant our DEFENSE on the PINE ...

 because they wont be needed ... except for mop up duty.

 You dont know what the fuuck you are getting into here do you?

 Marshall - Floyd - Bennett

 Forte - Bush - Bell

 Cutler - Campbell

 Now give em a fuuckin OFFENSIVE LINE.

 I'll give you a fuuckin SUPERBOWL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 27, 2012, 06:18:27 am
Sounds good, JJ! Make it happen
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 27, 2012, 07:57:26 am
Our D has sucked against the pass for as long as I can remember, especially on 3rd-and-long. And a lot of that has to do with lack of pressure from our DL.

The more I've seen of our D in the Marinelli era the more I realize that those D-Linemen in Tampa made Marinelli, not the other way around.  That's why I'd be really hesitant to take a project like Brockers...  I just don't think a guy like that would reach his full potential under these coaches, in this scheme.

It would also help if our CBs could muscle-up a WR every now and then and catch a pass when it hits them in the hands.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 27, 2012, 08:51:24 am
Phillips: Forte 'is going to be a Bear'
Team president quashes talk of trading running back

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-0327-bears-phillips--20120327,0,1077310.column

Lots of good stuff in there. Worth the read
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 27, 2012, 09:15:21 am
Scouting report on Brockers:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=41015
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 27, 2012, 09:42:09 am

It was just one mock that I've seen that had us selecting Brockers. 

But two things though could point to the Bears taking him.  Bears recognize the importance of the 3 technique tackle and might the Bears be projecting him to DE - his is 6-6 and came in as a LB - so its not like he's been playing interior line is whole life.  Didn't see what his 40 times were.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 27, 2012, 09:58:32 am
I think Brockers ran around a 5-flat at the combine.  Not jaw-dropping but not terrible either for a guy as big as a good-sized OT.   

I think best-case scenario for a guy like this is he develops into a Richard Seymour type player.  But will he bring that kind of impact out of the gate?  Very unlikely.  14 college games just is not that much seasoning even if those games were against top-notch SEC competition.   

And yeah Dallas, there has been a trend by LoviNelli to switch up their DEs and DTs at least in passing downs.  Peppers and Izzy are both prototype 4-3 DEs but have seen extensive action inside.  Brockers may be seen as another one of those types that could play anywhere along the line and support a lot of options in terms of stunts and games.

Plus against the likes of Stafford and Rogers with their quick-throw offenses, guys with long wingspans in the middle have extra value.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on March 27, 2012, 04:41:48 pm
Dontari Poe played on arguably THE worst team in D-1 football the past two years.

He has been double-teamed every snap of every game.

Not an argument for or against him, just stating a fact...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 27, 2012, 04:48:22 pm
I don't see that Poe kid sticking around long at all.  He's a monster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 27, 2012, 04:57:02 pm
Someone on another message board commented to the same effect re Poe.  Basically that he was on a terrible team and the "coaching" he got during his college career was pretty much non-existent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 27, 2012, 07:08:21 pm
Yahoo is saying Forte has an offer on the table?  Wonder what happens next.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 27, 2012, 08:04:31 pm
That is the same offer that has been on the table forever that he keeps refusing.  The guy wants Adrian Peterson money.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 27, 2012, 08:50:14 pm
I think the trib had Emery reporting that the Bears had made a "strong" offer, almost like it was a new offer but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 27, 2012, 08:54:25 pm
Don't think so.

The gap is huge from what Forte wants (Adrian Peterson money) and what the Bears have offered which is pretty much what Forte is worth imo.  Forte is over valuing himself.  He should have taken the deal last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 28, 2012, 03:09:47 am

 Forte is going to get 7.7 mil. no matter what, with Barber retiring ... cant some extra money go to Forte?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 28, 2012, 05:00:51 am
How about some extra money coming to me..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 28, 2012, 05:35:24 am
Yah, pay Chifan already!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 28, 2012, 06:30:04 am
if we overpay Forte it means we can't get the help we need in other areas.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 28, 2012, 06:44:21 am
I think it is very interesting.  Was listening to sports talk in Nashville yesterday, and they make a good case for not overpaying the running back position.  None of those that did, made the playoffs.  Chris Johnson, 8-8.  Adrian Peterson, worse.  If the Vikes want to get competitive quicker, they would be better dealing Peterson now while he still has value, though the cap hit would probably be enormous.

Is Forte the best we have had since Neal Anderson?  Absolutely.  Is he elite, not quite.  But he does have contribute a lot to the team.  I am not saying to not sign him, he is very valuable to us.  But from what I read, he was offered a very fair contract but wants to be paid like the top.  Which will make less money available for signing our own.  Everyone wants to get paid. 

Bears, throw in another $500K, make Matt feel like he won something.  Get it done...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 28, 2012, 07:06:48 am
Forte is not a elite back. He catches the ball well but isn't a Peterson running. He doesn't have breakaway speed. What he's been offered is more than fair presently. Like you said, teams noticed very quickly what happened to other highly paid running backs. They're quick learners and it was even mentioned in that broadcast by the team. They don't want to be like those teams, paying a ton of money and having the same thing happen. I know it will tweak some of the 'get all you can at any price' people, but he'd be making enough money by far with the offer they gave him. Is 7 million a year 'enough' to play football? When most of the rest of the world would gladly take that offer and even less, I'd say so. I'd love to be able to make enough in one years time to be able to live comfortably for, oh, a couple entire lifetimes!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 28, 2012, 07:20:06 am
Sporty, 7M isn't what it used to be. I mean it is only 200k for 35 years. A man has got to feed his kids :-)
I know Forte needs to get paid and for him it seems that the high $$$ is more about respect than the actual $$$ itself.
I think with the athletes, if they don't get that big number then they are disrespected and aren't valued and they seem like less of a person to their peers.

The bad part is Forte isn't getting much more than he was offered last year and he played for peanuts. He would have likely made $6M more by taking the first deal because he would have been paid sooner.

The Bears don't usually do this but in order to show Forte enough "respect" maybe they need to structure a deal in line with AP through incentives if he plays 16 games per year and if he makes the pro bowl every year and if the Bears make the playoffs. If he hits all those criteria then he hits the crazy $$$ otherwise he'll just make per year what most of us won't make in a lifetime.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 08:14:04 am
If Emery brought the same offer back to Forte -- AFTER he sustained his most recent injury -- that they made to him before he got hurt, Forte should kiss Emery's ring and sign it today.  Each injury a RB sustains reduces his value (and potentially, shortens his career) so Forte should thank his lucky stars if the Bears are still willing to make the same investment in what is now essentially a degraded product.

I initially sided with Forte on this thing but my patience with him is pretty much gone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 08:29:48 am
And this is exactly why Lovie Smith is not taken seriously by the rest of the league...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-lovie-on-line-we-like-the-group-we-have-20120328,0,7180783.story

Current group of O-Linemen?  Hester as a WR?  Yeah that's really worked out well for us the last couple of years hasn't it?

Maybe this whole article is a pre-draft misdirection play intended to pull other teams off the trail of OL and WR...  but at face value it would indicate that Lovie is just as clueless as ever when it comes to understanding what an offense needs to compete in today's NFL. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 28, 2012, 08:37:25 am
Could very well be Lovie's last season if he really believes that....stay with Webb, find out you were wrong, retire or get fired....them's the choices...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 28, 2012, 08:39:16 am
"7 m isn't what it used to be" LOL! Everyone on this board could struggle and make it for the rest of their lives on 7 mil. Hell, you could even take care of the in laws (one way or another).  Personally I think the problem is his agent pissing in his ear, telling him what he wants to hear.  Get another agent.  The NFL is littered with players who's ego far exceeded their ablilities, and the resulting trainwreck.  I like watching Matt in a Bear uni, but not at Chris Johnson money, who btw didn't do boo this year after getting paid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 09:00:37 am
Could very well be Lovie's last season if he really believes that....stay with Webb, find out you were wrong, retire or get fired....them's the choices...

The problem is, if Lovie gets the boot, the rest of his staff goes with him.  In the case of Marinelli, Babich, Hoke, Drake...  those are all guys who are average at best and it's probably getting to the time we'd be well served to replace them with guys who kick things up a notch or two with their respective units.  But Tice (and arguably, Bates) are another story... those guys are actually a couple of the better guys in the league at what they do.  Those two would be a tough loss to absorb and would essentially have Cutler starting from scratch yet again.

Unless Emery has "line item" authority to fire some coaches and keep others, but even then the new HC probably won't want to inherit any holdovers.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on March 28, 2012, 09:54:02 am
If healthy, Forte is absolutely an elite back. You people are kidding yourselves.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on March 28, 2012, 09:59:57 am
An elite back can get the short yardage even behind a crappy line...Forte can't.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 28, 2012, 10:08:59 am
Could very well be Lovie's last season if he really believes that....stay with Webb, find out you were wrong, retire or get fired....them's the choices...

The problem is, if Lovie gets the boot, the rest of his staff goes with him.  In the case of Marinelli, Babich, Hoke, Drake...  those are all guys who are average at best and it's probably getting to the time we'd be well served to replace them with guys who kick things up a notch or two with their respective units.  But Tice (and arguably, Bates) are another story...


Dude you got a major thing for Tice.  Personally I thought the Oline stunk last year as well.  It was HIS decision to move Webb to LT but you see him as this great coach or something.

If the line stinks again this year along with the offense Tice HAS to go as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 28, 2012, 10:11:46 am
And I don't blame Forte NOT A BIT for trying to get as much money as he can.  This is the NFL and he's a RB.  His knees could get blown out on the very first play this season.

And to see folks upset at him for trying to get as much possible is a joke.   If the Bears don't want to pay him his demand simply trade him to a team that will.

I don't have an issue with what he's trying to do.  He brings it on the field and he's done it ever since he was drafted.  Can't understand why some is hating on the guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 28, 2012, 10:14:51 am
Forte just isnt worth what he is asking for
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 10:34:49 am
If the line stinks again this year along with the offense Tice HAS to go as well.

If Emery doesn't draft a quality (i.e. Day One starter) O-Linemen this year it will be pretty clear he's making a statement to Lovie, Tice, and everyone else to put their money where their mouths are.  I.e., if you truly "like the guys you've got", then here they are, now go and make a deep playoff run with them.   

If this OL stinks again this year that very likely means our whole offense will struggle (again) and I predict Lovie, Tice and everyone else will be gone in 2013 as well as at least 3 of the 2012 starters on the OL.  The problem in that scenario is, will Cutler be ruined beyond repair by that point?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 28, 2012, 10:39:33 am
I read the article.  Lovie said they may try to an offensive lineman through either the draft or free agency.

But what is he suppose to tell the press, that he hates every last one of the guys up front blocking for the QB?  I'm sure Emery and Lovie both know that they need help up front and I do expect him to address it this off season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 28, 2012, 10:42:19 am
Lovie likes every player we have prior to the draft, he can't tell other teams where he is interested and if you say you need an LT and you don't get one then you have alienated the LT that you do have.
I don't put a lot of stock in much of what I hear from the coaches.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 28, 2012, 11:49:25 am
We cant put a "We need OTs" sign out for everybody to see. It makes drafting a good one impossible. Its probably why Tice didnt go to the Stanford pro day too. Gotta keep the opposition guessing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 28, 2012, 12:40:05 pm
Nobody wants to see Cutler go down for any length of time again...

'Course Lovie may hold the notion that Cutler's thumb injury had nothing to do with the protection from the O-line

It was all Knox' fault Jay got hurt
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 12:51:49 pm
Maybe Tice didn't go to Stanford's Pro Day...  but I have to assume someone from the Bears scouting staff did.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 28, 2012, 12:59:14 pm
The Forte thing will work itself out - Briggs situation was much worse a few years ago and Briggs and the Bears worked something out, even after Briggs was tagged.

As for Lovie's comments about the O-line did anyone catch the comment about possibly moving Carimi to LT?   Bears made the decision last year and pretty much stuck with it (Webb at LT and Carimi at RT), this year is different.  There is not strike and they'll have more time to look at each player - especially Carimi at LT. 

Carimi doesn't have to be a pro bowler at the position, just be solid so the Bears can go after some playmakers.

I'm leaning towards this Hill guy...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 02:12:26 pm
If I had to bet money I'd say one of these three guys will be our starting LT for Game 1 (in order of likelihood):

- Webb
- C. Williams
- Carimi

I don't see a Day One starter at LT being available to us in the draft, and I'm not sure Emery would take him even if he was.  My money's on a WR or DE with the 1st round pick.

That being said...  if a good, big-bodied prospect fell to our 2nd round pick -- i.e., Bobby Massie or Mike Adams -- I could a lot more easily see Emery pulling the trigger there since our depth at OT is slim to none.  I know a lot of Bears fans would prefer the opposite scenario (1 - OT and 2 - WR/DE)...  but I just don't see things playing out that way. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 28, 2012, 04:54:12 pm
So all we would be drafting in round 2 would be Omiyale's replacement. UGH! We need starters and several.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 05:08:52 pm
So all we would be drafting in round 2 would be Omiyale's replacement.

Yeah, pretty much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 28, 2012, 05:43:05 pm
If I had to bet money I'd say one of these three guys will be our starting LT for Game 1 (in order of likelihood):

- Webb
- C. Williams
- Carimi


Chris Williams was getting beat by everybody - in the preseason.  I remember them pulling Cutler against the Chargers in one game.  My order of likelihood would be: Webb, Carimi, #1 pick, Chris Williams
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 28, 2012, 07:18:49 pm
Yah, pay Chifan already!


Listen to Griz, he knows things!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 07:42:39 pm
IMO but if a 1st round draft pick can't play LT better than Webb or Carimi then he's really not worth the pick and we'd be better off addressing another position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on March 28, 2012, 08:24:35 pm
By Vaughn McClure, Tribune reporter

7:58 p.m. CDT, March 28, 2012
The Bears have found another player to add to the receiver rotation and another body to help fill some voids on special teams.

Wednesday evening, the team agreed to terms with free agent Devin Thomas on a one-year contract. The terms of the deal were not immediately available.

"I know I'm joining an organization that's legendary. That's the first thing that comes to mind, the tradition and the history," Thomas told ChicagoBears.com. "The team has shown so much promise and just needs a little bit more to get to the Super Bowl. I think they're putting the right pieces together. They have the right mentality to be right there. I'm looking forward to joining the team and adding to the success of the team."

Thomas was a second-round pick of the Washington Redskins in 2008 but never panned out in that offense. The former Michigan State standout has started 11 career games with the Redskins, Panthers, and New York Giants. He was a key special teams contributor during the Giants' run to the Super Bowl championship.

In his career, Thomas has 43 catches for 482 yards with three touchdowns. Thomas also has the ability to contribute as a return man.

It's not surprising that the Bears had an interest in Thomas. The team put Thomas through a private workout prior to the '08 draft. That year, the Bears drafted Earl Bennett in the third round.

The addition of Brandon Marshall as the No. 1 receiver and the possible contributions of Thomas and fellow newcomer Eric Weems to the receiving corps should make up for what could be a significant loss for the Bears. Multiple sources said Johnny Knox, who underwent spinal fusion surgery in December, is scheduled to start the season on the physically unable to perform list as he continues to recover. Knox would miss the first six games of the regular season if placed on the PUP list, as expected.

Bears coach Lovie Smith refused to speculate on Knox's status during the owners' meetings, but signing Thomas gives the Bears added insurance at receiver and on special teams.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 28, 2012, 10:02:30 pm
I like the signing. Thomas is a guy with the physical ability to be a star WR but has never really put it together in the NFL. I have no delusions his game will evolve much under the great Daryl Drake but at minimum we have another big guy to backstop Marshall, plus a  ptetty decent STer with speed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 28, 2012, 10:09:45 pm
Like our experiment at WR last year, I am not expecting more than a ST guy, not a starting WR. His history hasnt shown he is starting quality. OTOH he cant be much worse than RoyBoy
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 29, 2012, 05:23:25 am
I read the article.  Lovie said they may try to an offensive lineman through either the draft or free agency.

But what is he suppose to tell the press, that he hates every last one of the guys up front blocking for the QB?  I'm sure Emery and Lovie both know that they need help up front and I do expect him to address it this off season.

Agreed, Lovie is never going to poor mouth a player to the press.  He has shown that he will try to tweak a guy's motor like he did last year with Melton, but he is never going to come out and say, "Webb is struggling, we need to bring in someone else who can protect Jay's blindside".  It will always be rainbows and unicorns to the press...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 29, 2012, 05:27:42 am
The BIG difference between Forte and C Johnson of the Titans is above the shoulders.  Forget their measureables for a second, Forte will one day retire from the NFL with enough money to last his lifetime.  I fear CJ will be one of those guys you hear about a few years after he retires, broke and busted.  The only thing that will save him is a nice NFL pension.  He'll have to scrounge, here and there starting about the 10th of each month, but he'll be okay.

Forte is a smart guy, I think we would all like to see him get in here and sign a fair deal already...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 29, 2012, 08:10:19 am
I think we would all like to see him get in here and sign a fair deal already...

No question.  The only difference of opinion on this board is what constitutes a "fair deal".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 29, 2012, 08:21:59 am
The difference is, most of us don't think he's an elite back. I don't. To me elite would be  a player that's special, overcomes adversity, the ability to help carry the team on his back. I like Forte and hope he signs a fair deal. He has been a bit dinged over his carear..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 29, 2012, 08:38:44 am
I would argue Forte carried our offense on his back last season.

Cutler clearly was our MVP on either side of the ball but Forte was Cutler's only viable receiving option for some of those games, especially that stretch where Bennett was out. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 29, 2012, 08:41:07 am
Forte is a 2nd tier back trying to get elite back money. He knows the Bears are a "get off the bus running" team. He knows the Bears suit his needs and he thinks he has them over a barrel, but I dont believe the Bears are going to be foolish and sucumb to his demands. If he were to go to a different team he wouldnt be putting up the same numbers because they would likely pass more. Thus his value to another team is less than it would be to the Bears. He'd best take the Bears deal and be happy. Its not surprising he is upset that the Bears brought in another talented back to take away some of his carries. Forte needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 29, 2012, 08:47:34 am
Let's be clear here...Forte is NOT a Walter Payton. He's not a Barry Sanders. He's not a Herschel Walker, or a Emmit Smith,etc. He's not a 'elite' rb' THOSE are 'elite' running backs, who for years and time after time proved their worth. Forte is a very good rb but he does not belong in the same sentence with any of the above runners. He was a huge part of our offense because we don't HAVE much in the way of weapons ON our offense. He was it for alot of the time. Forte has good hands but much of the time he goes down on the first hit. There is nothing truly 'special' or 'elite' about him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 29, 2012, 09:00:41 am
My only real gripe about Forte has been that he's worthless in clutch short-yardage situations including goal line.  In terms of physique he's basically a WR playing RB and while that allows him to bring some unique skills to the table, getting tough yards between the tackles isn't one of them.

Granted he has not had premier (or even adequate) blocking for most of his career, but still. We've left quite a few 1st downs and TDs on the field due to lack of power in our running game.

Marion Barber helped tip the scales somewhat on that equation and hopefully Michael Bush at 245 lbs takes our power running game to the next level because it has been lacking ever since we let go of Thomas Jones.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 29, 2012, 09:26:26 am
Just read the details on the WR/ST signing in the Trib, stupid me, that was the guy who recovered both of the fumbles in the NY/SF playoff game.
I hated to see Graham go, but on the net on the surface it looks like the st unit improved.  Man this new gm really looks good to this Bear couch potato.  I really haven't a clue if what he's doing is right, but it sure seem like it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on March 29, 2012, 09:35:01 am
Some of you must be watching different games than I am...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 29, 2012, 09:44:57 am
Devin Thomas is another 1-year signing.  Which I really like.  If he has a breakout season we can re-up him and if not (and/or Knox is good-to-go for 2013), we cut him loose. 

The other thing that's interesting is, whereas Angelo drafted players for ST, Emery is filling those positions via FA -- hopefully, to save our draft picks for position players.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 29, 2012, 11:07:37 am
The other thing that's interesting is, whereas Angelo drafted players for ST, Emery is filling those positions via FA -- hopefully, to save our draft picks for position players.

Hopefully starting position players, not bench/3rd down specialty players. We have just so many needs to gamble on specialty players or gimics
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 29, 2012, 11:11:35 am
As Great as Sweetness was... and Barry Sanders - and Adrian Petrerson is/was...

That is not a Super Bowl guarantee... he's just one part of the machine...

If the Bears can't make him happy - Bush will fill his spot - and save money for other spots
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on March 29, 2012, 11:13:26 am
If there are no LOTs available - draft a DT and convert him
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 29, 2012, 12:03:31 pm
I don't think you guys understand what Forte is trying to do.  He has a right to ask for whatever he feels whether you all think he's an elite RB or not.  One good shot and his career is over!   So I don't blame him or any NFL player for that matter trying to get as much as he can get.  He's looking at his future as well as a possible career ending injury.  RB's do have a short career in the game.

If the Bears don't want to pay him at his asking price then like I said earlier trade him to a team that will pay him.

I just don't understand why folks are down on him so bad. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 29, 2012, 12:04:14 pm
Let's be clear here...Forte is NOT a Walter Payton. He's not a Barry Sanders. He's not a Herschel Walker, or a Emmit Smith,etc. He's not a 'elite' rb' THOSE are 'elite' running backs, who for years and time after time proved their worth. Forte is a very good rb but he does not belong in the same sentence with any of the above runners. He was a huge part of our offense because we don't HAVE much in the way of weapons ON our offense. He was it for alot of the time. Forte has good hands but much of the time he goes down on the first hit. There is nothing truly 'special' or 'elite' about him.

I don't think anyone is comparing Forte to any of those players.  And I don't believe Forte is asking for the equivalent of Payton money.  This is just part of the business part of the NFL and until Forte starts missing practices or games I'm not going to fret about it.

And I'm certainly not going to belittle Forte's accomplishments because he wants a better deal.

Unfortunately, you won't realize Forte's value until he's gone someday.  Hopefully that day is a long time from now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on March 29, 2012, 12:23:45 pm
I don't think that Forte is an elite back.
He's not a 4.3 guy and not a 230lb grinder but pretty much everything else he does extremely well.
He doesn't usually make something out of nothing but if you give him a little he'll get it and sometimes more.
He isn't worth 8M per year (honestly no one is really).
His true value is likely in the 5-6 per range but we'll have to pay more than that.
I'd love to resign him but I don't want to overpay him either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 29, 2012, 12:24:00 pm
I did say he was a very good rb. But clarification was needed on being 'elite' IMO......that's all I was saying. Yea, he needs to be a Bear and I think he will be.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 29, 2012, 12:40:55 pm
I don't think you guys understand what Forte is trying to do.  He has a right to ask for whatever he feels whether you all think he's an elite RB or not.  One good shot and his career is over!   So I don't blame him or any NFL player for that matter trying to get as much as he can get.  He's looking at his future as well as a possible career ending injury.  RB's do have a short career in the game.

If the Bears don't want to pay him at his asking price then like I said earlier trade him to a team that will pay him.

I just don't understand why folks are down on him so bad. 

Agreed, under the condition we get the equivalent of what we are asking for in return. If he were a FA there might be such a team willing to give him what he is asking but not willing to give him what he is asking if they also have to compensate the Bears too. I honestly dont believe such a team exists. The market for RBs has declined because of the passing game and the durability issues of RBs today. OTOH from the tone of your post you feel Forte is worth whatever he is asking for and the Bears should just pay it. IMHO thats not a wise decision. The idea that the Bears can afford to give him whatever he is asking because the McCaskets have a lot of money and can afford it is just bad business.IMHO Forte will be overpaid at the 7. whatever he is tagged at.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 29, 2012, 12:53:00 pm
The people who think we could get a 1st round draft pick for Forte don't understand how dramatically the market for RBs has eroded.  Very few teams are willing to draft a RB in the 1st round anymore so why would they trade their pick for one?

The best we could get for Forte would be a 2nd rounder. He's more valuable to us than that so it's in our best interests to keep him.

And anyway when we put the franchise tag on him we pretty much bound ourselves to him for this coming season.  We could remove the tag but then he reverts to being a FA and he can sign with another team and we'd get nothing.  And as I understand the rules, as long as a player is carrying the franchise tag he can't be traded.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 29, 2012, 01:15:52 pm
Another thing I've noticed about Emery vs. Angelo.

Where has Emery pulled his FAs from?  Atlanta, San Fran, NY Giants, Raiders - playoff caliber teams with solid rosters top to bottom

Who did Angelo sign guys from?  Bucs, Rams, Seahawks and Cowboys - bottom feeders and underachievers with sub-par starting talent and/or very little depth

If you want to build a winning team, you bring in people who know what winning looks like.  Another thing that Emery seems to "get" but was totally lost on his predecessor.  It wouldn't surprise me if at least a couple of these players he brought in for depth wind up being better than guys who started for us last year.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 29, 2012, 01:27:24 pm
That's a good point, Yapp.....yep, bring in the winners!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 29, 2012, 01:30:45 pm
I hadn't thought of that- very good point.  Re Forte, of course he should get as much as he can, the career could be over the very next snap.  I just feel the Bear's offer is pretty good given the way the game is played today.  I know Matt feels he's being judged by the amount paid compared to other backs, but I think that is in error in that other backs could be in a different situation, with different agents.  The CJ AP money is from teams that don't have Cutler type quarterbacks. I certainly don't begrudge anyone any money they earn playing football.  Brutal effects after the game passes you by, look at poor Duerson, Mcmahon claims he doesn't even remember the 80's, financial train wrecks, look at John Elway, it can be a real mess. But you have to admit 7,700,000.00 a year is pretty good money, even after taxes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on March 29, 2012, 01:36:49 pm
46:

I agree with you in reference to Forte.  I don't have an issue with what the Bears offered him but I don't have a problem with Forte trying to get as much as possible.

I think they'll eventually meet toward a goal but I won't bash any player for trying to get as much as possible in the NFL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 29, 2012, 01:43:14 pm
Mcmahon claims he doesn't even remember the 80's

A lot of us can claim that...  and in McMahon's case I'm not sure it has that much to do with his football career...   ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 29, 2012, 03:32:17 pm

I did say he was a very good rb. But clarification was needed on being 'elite' IMO......that's all I was saying. Yea, he needs to be a Bear and I think he will be.

Depends on your definition of elite.  If elite means hall of fame.  Then no Forte is not elite.  But if you mean elite to be among the best in the NFL, pro bowl or near pro bowl quality, 1000 yards a year every year...then Forte is definitely in that category.

As for Forte's shortcoming (singular), it's must easier to replace a Forte on 3rd and short then to replace a Forte on 3rd and long.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on March 29, 2012, 04:53:26 pm
I did say he was a very good rb. But clarification was needed on being 'elite' IMO......that's all I was saying. Yea, he needs to be a Bear and I think he will be.

Depends on your definition of elite.  If elite means hall of fame.  Then no Forte is not elite.  But if you mean elite to be among the best in the NFL, pro bowl or near pro bowl quality, 1000 yards a year every year...then Forte is definitely in that category.

As for Forte's shortcoming (singular), it's must easier to replace a Forte on 3rd and short then to replace a Forte on 3rd and long.

That's a part of the point. If you need to replace him on 3rd down and have to pay an additional salary for a short yardage back then he is not elite. The salary offers I've heard so far seem reasonable for what he brings to the table.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 29, 2012, 05:27:28 pm
He's not gonna get a better offer than the Bears have put on the table. It's just not gonna happen when a team can draft a guy in the 3rd round with younger legs at a fraction of the price.

Either he, his agent or both  don't have an accurate read on the market right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 29, 2012, 05:39:10 pm

That's a part of the point. If you need to replace him on 3rd down and have to pay an additional salary for a short yardage back then he is not elite. The salary offers I've heard so far seem reasonable for what he brings to the table.

So I guess Adrian Petersen is not elite - comes off the field every 3rd and 2 or more. 

And they didn't need to sign Bush as a short yardage back - Marion Barber fulfilled that role quite well at a modest price.

As for the salary offers- maybe they are fair, and maybe Forte is just playing the game to see if can squeeze a few dollars more.

It's just not gonna happen when a team can draft a guy in the 3rd round with younger legs at a fraction of the price.

Good luck with that strategy.  Draft picks are a crapshoot with decreasing odds as the rounds increase.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 29, 2012, 08:16:22 pm
So crapshoot isn't a banned word?  and i misspelled it deliberately
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 29, 2012, 08:21:08 pm
So did I see correctly that Pep Hamilton was Andrew Lucks QB coach in college? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on March 29, 2012, 08:28:23 pm
I think Forte is a great player.  But honestly he is like the 4th or 5th most important player just on the Bears.  Cutler, Peppers, Urlacher, Marshall

I think what the folks that are coming off anti-Forte are saying is he is not worth breaking the bank over.

I tend to agree.  Finances and their management are a big thing in the NFL; its one of the reasons the Patroits are always so good.  They don't over pay, they trade/let players walk.  Forte has been passing up very "fair and reasonable" offers, at least what has been reported previously.

One reason draft picks have so much value is do to the fact that rookie contracts typically don't break the bank.  That's why we got Marshall so cheap, we assumed his very fat contract. 

I really would like to see Forte stay a Bear, but if the man won't sign a reasonable contract and we could get first round pick.  I would ship him. 

Personally I don't think he goes anywhere due to the franchise tag.  Bears will pay him franchise tag money for one more year, then let him walk if it comes to that (worse case scenario).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on March 29, 2012, 08:44:05 pm
Exactly!  In todays NFL if you allocate money to one player it goes away from another.

Forte is not the guy you pay HUGE bucks to.  I would pay Cutler before him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 30, 2012, 12:54:03 am
I think what the folks that are coming off anti-Forte are saying is he is not worth breaking the bank over.

And I'm not sure there is anybody here that is saying that the Bears should break the bank.   If the Bears have already made their best offer then I'm fine with it.

I really would like to see Forte stay a Bear, but if the man won't sign a reasonable contract and we could get first round pick.  I would ship him.

First round picks especially this time of year are very valuable.  Doubt you could get one for Forte.

Personally I don't think he goes anywhere due to the franchise tag.  Bears will pay him franchise tag money for one more year, then let him walk if it comes to that (worse case scenario).

Next year Bears could tag him again or look for a trade, probably for another player or that 3rd rounder.  You know, the one where we just nab the next Matt Forte. 

Let's see.  Garrett Wolfe was a 3rd rounder.  And Cedric Benson...he was a first rounder.   Anthony Thomas he was pretty good...a 2nd rounder.    And then there was Curtis Ennis....high first rounder and Rashaan Salaam was a first rounder too.  So was Brad Muster before him.

And then we come to Neal Anderson in 1986.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on March 30, 2012, 03:08:53 am
 You better LOOK AT THE DRAFT ya'll.

 Theres ONE RB worth taking in the first round.

 RUNNING BACKS are becoming a scarce commodity.

 NE went with a two TE set last year ... RB was an afterthought.

 NE went to the Superbowl ... it's not about losing ... it's about getting there.

 And making adjustments for the future.

 Ask us.

 We have what may be the best RB corp in the NFC North ... wait ...

 strike out "may".
 
 Is NE developing for the future? Well ... they just  proved it in the last Superbowl.

 Even on the losing side it doesnt matter ... they were there.

 But check this shiit out ... Hester - Weems - Thomas.

 Toub may be just as smart as NE.

 If NE evolves it TE ... CHICAGO just may be evolving it SPECIAL TEAMS.

 Think about it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 30, 2012, 05:29:43 am
I've seen no one "bashing" Forte. Actually, the other way around. I think everyone hopes Forte signs a fair deal. Fair means fair for BOTH sides. Forte has the right to get as much as he can? Well the Bears have the right to sign a player to a number that fits their financing. Actually, from what I've seen in the past, the Bears seem to treat players fairly. Someone like Briggs on the other hand, likes to run his mouth, and the media eats it up..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on March 30, 2012, 05:39:09 am
I think we are all saying he is valuable, just don't break the bank.  I think no one is either arguing the fact that an NFL running backs career can be over quickly.  When you look at Chris Johnson or AP, most look and say that they broke the bank.  I both situations, you do not have a premier qB demanding a chunk of the salary cap so it is there to spend.

Frank Gore, DeAngelo Williams, Jamaal Charles money?  Yeah, I think that is fair.  His market is right there.  If the Bears are offering dramatically less, then shame on them.  If Forte is expecting dramatically more, then shame on him
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on March 30, 2012, 06:35:39 am
The game seems to have changed over the past several years.  RBs used to be an esssential part of winning football teams.  Not so much now.  Check the last SB teams and see whether the teams had star RBs or star QBs.

A good RB now must be able to block well for the QB, catch the ball well out of the backfield anddefinitely not fumble  Just good running doesn't do it these days.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on March 30, 2012, 07:08:42 am
Well said Packy. You have to do a lot these days to be a good RB in the NFL. I think thats another reason we got Bush, to have a big blocker in the backfield to protect the QB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on March 30, 2012, 08:51:45 am
That's why Cedric Benson isn't getting any play on the open market. He's a decent runner when healthy and motivated, but that's all he brings to the table. When  he was with the Bears he was the worst pass catcher out of the backfield that I had ever seen. Those guys are really hard justifying a roster spot for anymore.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on March 30, 2012, 11:07:55 am

Benson is 29 and one dimensional.  No one is going to give him an expensive long term deal. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on March 30, 2012, 11:14:40 am
Maybe advertising for Grey Goose vodka or boats. You never know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on March 30, 2012, 02:22:41 pm
LOL!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on March 31, 2012, 04:41:05 pm
Yes, definately hoping Forte gets a solid, reasonable contract. Think he's been offered that already. If they sweeten it a tad more maybe he'll jump. As for the definition of elite, yea I'd say that would most likely lead him to the HOF. I cannot see Forte as a candidate for that. Top 5 in the league currently....hmm...are there any REAL 'elite' backs out there now? I don't follow each team closely. Peterson has the tools but hasn't proven himself quite yet. Boy, it's hard to think of a outstanding runner out there right now....hmmm....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 01, 2012, 03:19:37 am
Yes, definately hoping Forte gets a solid, reasonable contract. Think he's been offered that already. If they sweeten it a tad more maybe he'll jump. As for the definition of elite, yea I'd say that would most likely lead him to the HOF. I cannot see Forte as a candidate for that. Top 5 in the league currently....hmm...are there any REAL 'elite' backs out there now? I don't follow each team closely. Peterson has the tools but hasn't proven himself quite yet. Boy, it's hard to think of a outstanding runner out there right now....hmmm....

 Uhhhh ... in the draft ... theres one.  Period.

 What there is also ... is ARIAN FOSTER.

 Or guys like him.

 Are RB's becoming like FB's?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 01, 2012, 12:37:02 pm
What's also interesting to me is that LBs are kinda becoming the defensive equivalent of RBs as far as value.

With the NFL such a pass-happy league, the philosophy by a lot of teams now seems to be to prioritize your pass rush (DL) and CBs, and fill the LB positions with JAGs. Kuechly from Boston College is the only LB that seems to be a lock to even be taken in the 1st round this year.

That makes the Bears D kind of unique in that LB is arguably our strongest corps on the D. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 01, 2012, 06:04:12 pm

The typical 4-3 LB is not a strong pass rusher and most are not that special in pass coverage either.  With the popularity of the 3-4 defenses Bears should be able to snag a quality 4-3 OLB in the mid to late rounds.  That is, if they are looking for one.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 02, 2012, 04:37:01 am
What's also interesting to me is that LBs are kinda becoming the defensive equivalent of RBs as far as value.

With the NFL such a pass-happy league, the philosophy by a lot of teams now seems to be to prioritize your pass rush (DL) and CBs, and fill the LB positions with JAGs. Kuechly from Boston College is the only LB that seems to be a lock to even be taken in the 1st round this year.

That makes the Bears D kind of unique in that LB is arguably our strongest corps on the D. 


 And we may just have one of the strongest RB corp left for the future of the NFL Yap.

 There's no doubt the game is going vertical.

 
The typical 4-3 LB is not a strong pass rusher and most are not that special in pass coverage either.  With the popularity of the 3-4 defenses Bears should be able to snag a quality 4-3 OLB in the mid to late rounds.  That is, if they are looking for one.

 Dal do you see us going 3-4 anytime soon?

 With our fourth pick we should go LB.

 If ... IF we pick a LB at fourth ...

 it will be interesting to see what kind of position he is best at,

 3-4 or 4-3.

 It could portend for the future of DAA BEARRSSE "D".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 02, 2012, 05:40:24 am
FWIW Mike Mayock thinks Kalil is the only OT worth taking before 20 and the only Day One starter out of this years class at that position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 02, 2012, 06:34:13 am
FWIW Mike Mayock thinks Kalil is the only OT worth taking before 20 and the only Day One starter out of this years class at that position.

 Yap,

 Some draft rags have Kalil going to Minnie with the third pick overall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 02, 2012, 06:44:52 am
Maybe Mayock is correct, who is to say. You can bet your bippie some teams in the top 20 will gamble on a LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 02, 2012, 06:52:28 am
What I thought was interesting was Sam Farmer's mock has three interior OL going in the 1st round.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 02, 2012, 08:04:14 am
I'm assuming those three are DeCastro, Cordy Glenn and Peter Konz.

- DeCastro is considered the best OG prospect to come out in at least 10 years and one is hard-pressed to find a mock draft anywhere that doesn't have him going in the top 15.

- Glenn is projected as an OG but has the size (6'5 345) and agility enough that RT is not out of the question. So that gives him value beyond what just the 2nd rated OG would warrant.

- Konz is coming off a major ankle injury (what is it with all these UW OL having bad wheels?), but is still the consensus best C in this year's class so to have him slide in at the bottom of the 1st isn't that out of the ordinary.

So yeah, while 3 interior OL in the 1st round is a bit unusual, in the case of this year's class it seems to be appropriate.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 02, 2012, 08:15:21 am
oops, he has 4 interior OL going in the 1st round.

19. Chicago: OG David DeCastro, Stanford — Andrew Luck says DeCastro plays angry, and that's just the kind of player who can help Chicago's line. This also could be a spot for a receiver.

21. Cincinnati: OG Cordy Glenn, Georgia — The Bengals could use a running back and at least one pass rusher, but Glenn could help solidify the offensive line, something Andy Dalton would appreciate.

28. Green Bay: OG Amini Silatolu, Midwestern State — The Packers are always looking to upgrade their offensive line, and Silatolu would be a quality addition, although a lightly experienced one.

29. Baltimore: C Peter Konz, Wisconsin — The Ravens are looking for their next Matt Birk, and that just might be the reliable Konz, the best center in this draft class.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 02, 2012, 08:40:55 am
28. Green Bay: OG Amini Silatolu, Midwestern State — The Packers are always looking to upgrade their offensive line, and Silatolu would be a quality addition, although a lightly experienced one.

Too high for this guy by at least half a round.  I would never take a guy from a school this small in the 1st round (even low 1st round), and especially an O-Lineman.  The difference in level of competition is just too dramatic.  Although, if there's any team that can make it work, it would be the Packers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 02, 2012, 09:03:38 am

We have enough decisions at #19 without DeCastro adding to it - hopefully someone nabs him before #19.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 02, 2012, 09:06:10 am
Farmer's mock draft has DeCastro lasting till 19 and Hill and Martin falling out of the 1st round altogether.

I consider all three of those scenarios extremely unlikely.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 02, 2012, 09:09:17 am
I think I would be pretty darned happy to get DeCastro.  Top player, nasty streak, tough, makes others better.  We could really use a guy like that to help out Jay Cutler stay clean. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 02, 2012, 09:15:54 am
In almost any scenario you can generate, DeCastro would be the hands-down pick for the Bears if value were the sole consideration.

But I doubt that Emery's first pick as a GM is going to be completely about value, and I'm certain it will not be his decision alone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 02, 2012, 09:22:03 am
I am sure Lovie is going to be involved. I still expect the player to be a WR or a DE
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 02, 2012, 09:26:34 am
Another guy kind of like DeCastro who could present real problems for Emery if he fell was the LB Kuechly from Boston College.

A lot of Bears fans would go ballistic if we took a LB with the 1st round pick, and I would need a lot of persuading myself.  To spend a top 20 pick on a position of inherently lower value doesn't make a lot sense and especially when it's already one of the strongest areas on your team.  The only way he'd probably see the field his rookie season is if Urlacher got hurt again. But Kuechly is supposed to be a decent player and 19 is considerably lower than most mocks have him going so again, that would be a value thing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on April 02, 2012, 09:56:05 am
Uhhhh ... in the draft ... theres one.  Period.

 What there is also ... is ARIAN FOSTER.

 Or guys like him.

 Are RB's becoming like FB's?

Maybe so.  It was the reverse for the Lombardi in his era.  FB Taylor was always the leading runner for the team and Hornung as an excellent blocker for the sweep.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on April 02, 2012, 09:57:41 am
McCarthy likes to stock up on TEs and uses them in place of a FB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on April 02, 2012, 07:51:08 pm
Yes to Kuechly.    Urlacher and Briggs are on downside of career.  Putting a young stud next to them to learn from would be the type of foresight we have not had for a long time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 03, 2012, 08:30:24 am
Yes to Kuechly.    Urlacher and Briggs are on downside of career.  Putting a young stud next to them to learn from would be the type of foresight we have not had for a long time.

Yeah but meanwhile Cutler will keep getting dumped on his ass and we'll still have no air game if Marshall flakes out or gets hurt.

IMO there's at least a draft's worth of Jerry Angelo screwups that have to be fixed this year.  We all know the positions  (WR, OL, DE, CB). Let's get those things addressed this year and then next year we can look at Urlacher's replacement, possibly upgrade TE and S, find a C to take over for Garza, etc.   What's not to say a guy as good as Kuechly or better won't be available next year, too?  And it's not like 4-3 MLBs are a real hot commodity anymore anyway so next year the top-rated MLB could very easily be available at 20 or even lower. 

There would have to be a lot (and I mean a lot) of really good OL, WRs and DEs already off the board before I'd be OK with Kuechly as our pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 03, 2012, 08:34:33 am

 ET Al,

 The NFL could be going into uncharted territory.

 Not one team ... every team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 03, 2012, 11:16:32 am
Bears unveil new Nike uniforms


http://www.suntimes.com/photos/galleries/11691365-417/bears-unveil-new-nike-uniforms.html

(http://www.suntimes.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=VzvI9pW3j3xzYai61V_R18$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtn2tHOhH9MbYLVeKsU2X3$WCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 03, 2012, 11:28:40 am
Another look.....


(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/522021_10150694907548468_187737603467_8942794_529478628_n.jpg)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 03, 2012, 11:36:31 am
The Bears unis are OK.  I had expected worse.

Urlacher looks skinny in that pic though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 03, 2012, 12:17:21 pm
And darker complected
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 03, 2012, 12:30:45 pm
Ah, shoe polish
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 03, 2012, 12:32:14 pm
And unless its the lighting the color of that uniform isnt navy. It looks purple cast which I dont like.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 03, 2012, 12:43:39 pm
All the pictures that Nike has put out of the new unis with actual NFL players wearing them have that really artificial, highly processed "video game" look to them. 

But then we all live in a CGI world anymore so it's not real surprising I guess.  Maybe their marketing folks think it's hip or cool but I think it's just dumb, and distracting.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on April 03, 2012, 03:52:35 pm
Are those some bizarre mannikins or something?? Note the stand by their feet and they seem to be similar in appearance, i.e. the arms on the Vikes and Bears, same pose same muscle structure
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 04, 2012, 02:41:59 pm
Preseason schedule out:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-to-open-preseason-vs-manning-broncos-20120404,0,7092245.story

We play, in order,

Broncos (P. Manning)
Redskins (RGIII)
@ Giants (E. Manning) 
@ Browns (??)

In other words, we'll know right off the bat if we've got a pass defense this year or not. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 04, 2012, 02:50:18 pm
RGIII said he isn't doing any private workouts, he told the Colts no.
If I am Wash at #2 I'm not sure I spend it on a guy that won't workout.
It tells me he might be trying to hide something.
I'm thinking the combine and pro-day show you what he can do physically.
I would think the private workout is more about how much you can understand the concepts and read defenses, things like psychological exams etc.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 04, 2012, 02:55:09 pm
What I read is that RGIII already told teams weeks ago he wasn't going to do any private workouts because he wanted as many scouts as possible at the Baylor Pro Day so that his college teammates like Kendall Wright and Philip Blake had a chance to improve their stock too.

Don't know if that's true but that's what I read.  And it makes RGIII a stand-up guy if it's true.  I mean seriously, there's miles of film on the guy, he killed the combine and followed it up with a great Pro Day.  Anyone who wanted to interview him in private could have done that at either of those events.  The Redskins have mortgaged their next two drafts to get him, and the only the way they won't is if the Colts F everyone up and take him #1.  I don't really see what else he has to prove or what the point of him working out privately would be anyway.

Part of me wants to see the Colts take RGIII just to stick it to Danny Boy Snyder...  but OTOH RGIII seems like a truly good guy and to have him go to a Colts team with a joke of an owner and zero supporting talent would really suck for him.  The Skins are a lot closer to returning to the playoffs than the Colts are.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 04, 2012, 05:37:43 pm
From all accouts RGIII has a good chance to be the face of the NFL in upcoming years.  Just a really good person/teamate.  Good for him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 04, 2012, 07:35:24 pm
The Bears unis are OK.  I had expected worse.

Urlacher looks skinny in that pic though.

 Shorter sleeves.

 
Preseason schedule out:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-to-open-preseason-vs-manning-broncos-20120404,0,7092245.story

We play, in order,

Broncos (P. Manning)
Redskins (RGIII)
@ Giants (E. Manning) 
@ Browns (??)

In other words, we'll know right off the bat if we've got a pass defense this year or not. 

 We better know if we have a PASS & RUN offense ... to keep those clowns on the bench.
From all accouts RGIII has a good chance to be the face of the NFL in upcoming years.  Just a really good person/teamate.  Good for him.

 Same here. But on Gameday ... BEARRSSE better be planting him.  :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 04, 2012, 10:05:30 pm
RG3 is gonna cause the  Bears d a lot of headaches whenever we play the Skins. But then, he's gonna cause a lot of defenses headaches. At least we have good enough LBs we can put a spy on him. Some of these other teams may not have that luxury.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 04, 2012, 10:10:37 pm
Bears have always had Vicks number and tons of other mobile QB's who could throw. 

Why will RG3 be any different?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 04, 2012, 11:01:48 pm
RG3 is gonna cause the  Bears d a lot of headaches whenever we play the Skins. But then, he's gonna cause a lot of defenses headaches. At least we have good enough LBs we can put a spy on him. Some of these other teams may not have that luxury.

 All the more reason to draft CB/S in the third. Although I could see T.E.

 Linebacker in the fourth.

 
Bears have always had Vicks number and tons of other mobile QB's who could throw. 

Why will RG3 be any different?

 Because he's really different Duck. Like scary different.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 05, 2012, 07:09:18 am
It seems with mobile QB's you usually trade off either accuracy or the ability to read defenses. I think they just learn to depend on their wheels more. RGIII seems to be accurate with wheels. If he can read defenses he might be scary real soon.

I think with Vick we always did pressure/contain. We pressured him enough to get him moving but usually kept him from killing us on the ground. The C2 helps with that because all eyes are on the QB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 07:54:49 am
I see according to the Trib that Okoye might sign elsewhere. Since the Bears let Adams go Okoye leaving would leave a hole at DT. Emery didnt sound optimistic that Okoye would be back. My guess? That the Bears only offered Okoye a one year deal, like many of their FAs.

This development further amplifies my belief that the Bears go defense in the draft. The Bears now have 3 holes to fill on the DL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 08:03:18 am
If Okoye leaves then that would seem to open up DT as a draft possibility along with DE and CB on the defense. Not sure we've got enough draft picks to fill all those holes and still grab another WR or OL for the offense. Unless Emery and Lovie have someone on their radar who can alternate between DE and DT like they've done with Izzy and were doing with Peppers last year.

This Fletcher Cox guy has been getting a lot of ink and I've kind of been ignoring it cause I figured we were set at DT.  But I did dust off a couple scouting reports on him.  Here's one capsule:

Fletcher Cox*, DT, Mississippi State
Height: 6-4. Weight: 298.
40 Time: 4.79. 10-Yd Split: 1.63.
Bench: 30.
Vertical: 26. Broad: 8-7.
Arm: 34 1/2.
Projected Round (2012): 1.
 
Cox had an excellent Combine. He featured phenomenal speed with good strength. Cox would have been labeled as the most impressive defensive tackle there if Poe hadn't grabbed all the headlines,.

Cox was suspended for the first game of the 2011 season. He didn't have much production in the first five games of the year, but came alive with four sacks in Mississippi State's two games against South Carolina and Kentucky. Late in the season, Cox had quality performances against Alabama and Arkansas. In 2011, he totaled 56 tackles with 14.5 tackles for a loss, five sacks and one forced fumble.

Cox has a nice combination of speed and playmaking ability. He has the power to push linemen back and get them off balance along with the speed to shoot by them and get to the quarterback. His length and versatile skill set make him a fit at tackle or end in a 4-3 and a potential five technique defensive end in a 3-4 defense
.




 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 08:16:19 am
The thing about Izzy is you can move him inside on 3rd down if needed. Right now Melton is the only tackle I know we have with Adams gone and Okoye likely gone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 08:23:17 am
They may be looking for a bigger DT.  I know Lovie likes them smaller but Toeiana is the biggest DT we've got at around 308 and Paea and Melton are both under 300.  Okoye brings a lot of athleticism but again, not much mass so we're a bit overstaffed at the 3-Technique.  If all they're looking for is a bigger body that can eat up blockers and space, they can probably find that guy in the 2nd or even the 3rd (although our history of 3rd round DTs has been a litany of failure).

I just hope they stay away from that Devon Still guy from Penn State.  The Nittany Lions haven't sent a lot of good pro ballers into the league lately and the last Penn State DL we drafted (Michael Haynes) was a disaster.  I also hope they don't go and take some "development prospect" cause Marinelli's success in developing D-Linemen since he's been here is limited at best.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 05, 2012, 09:22:32 am

Bears apparently have too much money tied up already at DT.  I think Melton is in his last year of his rookie deal and will want to get paid.  Toeaina recently signed a deal and Paea is only a 2nd year guy.  I don't know.

Okoye is young (not yet 25) and a pass rush first DT - no he's not a fat run stopping NT but how many teams ran on us last year - I think we were 5th in the NFL against the run or something like that.

Bears need to sign the guy so they can focus on other positions in the draft - with Okoye, Melton, Toeaina and Paea the Bears rotation would set at DT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 09:23:03 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/amobi-okoye-likely-finished-with-bears/

He'll probably go to the Patriots and be a Pro Bowler for them.

I agree with you Dallas, I wish we'd re-sign Okoye and leave DT alone for the rest of this offseason.  Feels like we're creating a hole we wouldn't have to.  Unless there's a guy that's been sitting on our practice squad that Emery feels can be brought up.

As for Melton getting paid...  that's gonna depend on what he does this year.  He's shown some flashes but he's also disappeared for long stretches.  He's about the only Angelo mid-round "project" who hasn't totally busted but unless he plays more consistently this season I wouldn't mind letting him test the market.  If Lovie and Marinelli get launched after this season then the whole DL may be in for a reset anyway.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 09:48:23 am
If Lovie and Marinelli get launched after this season then the whole DL may be in for a reset anyway.

Which seems to be why the Bears are only signing guys to one year contracts. Thats why I'm guessing Okoye was only offered a one year deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 09:53:07 am
And I totally forgot about Paea and Toeaina. Somebody will have to step up. Towards the end of the season Paea was the most effective tackle we had. I have never been impressed with Toeaina
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 09:58:55 am
I hope the Bears dont go after that DE from WV or the guy from USC. Both are way too small to play DE in a 4/3 scheme. They are more suited to play LB in a 3/4 scheme
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 10:01:18 am
Which seems to be why the Bears are only signing guys to one year contracts. Thats why I'm guessing Okoye was only offered a one year deal.

I like what Emery is doing with these short term deals.  The players all know that Lovie is nearing the end of a contract which, by any reasonable means of evaluation, he has underperformed.  By signing players to short-term deals Emery is putting the players' asses and Lovie's in the same sling.  If the Bears get into the postseason and look good doing it, very likely most or all of them will be re-upped longer term -- players, Lovie and his staff.  But if the team fails again, they'll all be launched together (as it should be) and Emery will commence a more radical rebuilding program with pretty much carte blanche (or at least to the extent Phillips allows).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 05, 2012, 10:54:06 am
Towards the end of the season Paea was the most effective tackle we had. I have never been impressed with Toeaina

Toeaina is a borderline starter, not very flashy, but a solid guy to have on your team - very active and never loafs.  You'd like to see him get to the QB more but he was injured last year too.  As for Paea, he showed some flashes...some super quickness.   I think Adams getting hurt forced the Bears to play him and they were surprised as he didn't look that good in preseason.  May have been hurt too.

Melton was our best DT, 2nd in the NFL among DTs in sacks.  He looks inconsistent at times but DT is a tough position to look dominating.

I like what Emery is doing with these short term deals.

Angelo did the short term deals too...Graham and Okoye come to mind.  I think a lot of that had to do with the strike and that some of these players couldn't get the big money/long term deals  they wanted so opted for a short term deal to prove themselves and then cash in. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 10:59:51 am
I, too, thought Paea came on strong towards the end of the season. It would be nice (and long overdue) if one of our higher drafted DTs finally worked out for us.

I didn't remember that Melton had done that well on sacks.  He definitely deserves credit for that, and he does have some special skills as there aren't many DTs that could go from 260 (what he weighed when we drafted him) to 295 (where he played last year) and not lose all their quickness and stamina. 

FWIW, as of today ChicagoBears.com is showing only 4 DTs on the Bears roster:  Paea, Toeiana, Melton, and a 1-year guy named Jordan Miller out of Southern who I assume was on our practice squad last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 05, 2012, 12:48:45 pm

Where's the depth on D?

Who's are 4th DT?  Who's are 3rd CB?  Who's are 4th safety?  Who's are 4th LB?  Who's are 3rd DE?

None of those positions are starting guys - so do we have fewer but bigger holes offensively with our status at the starting spots:  LT and #2 WR?

I'd guess the only position we won't draft would QB and HB, maybe TE.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 01:02:08 pm
According to what I am hearing and reading between the lines, Oline wont get any help unless its late. My guess is they will draft defense primarily. DE, DT, S, CB. That seems to be where we are thinnest
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 05, 2012, 01:05:30 pm
What? After watching Cutler get tidlewaved play after play the Bear defense needs help? What?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 01:21:22 pm
I think Emery realizes that offensively, we're never going to have the weapons the Packers or the Lions do.  Trying to match their offensive firepower player-for-player would take two more years of high draft picks and some really expensive FA signings.  Marshall at least gets us into their area code in terms of talent and while adding another big fast WR (not to mention a reliable LT) would make me feel a lot better, Emery quite possibly may have done all he plans to do for the O this offseason.

So since we can only improve the offense so much, the focus then shifts to upgrading our pass defense significantly.  To be in the bottom 5 of the whole league in that department is just embarrassing and unforgiveable and while I lay a lot of the blame on LoviNelli's outdated scheme and inability to make in-game adjustments, there are talent issues as well.  Just improving the pass rush or just improving our coverage isn't going to do it.  We need playmakers on both the front and back ends.  That's why I feel at least 2 of our first 3 draft picks will be defensive players at the DL and DB positions.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 01:33:11 pm
Thats about what I am thinking too. Emery says he is satisfied with the Oline, that we have young players there. But it was the NFL's worst Oline. Now we are short on the DLine and at safety and they let several corners walk. It just seems the Bears have turned a complete 180 from offense to defense. Maybe I am just seeing things wrong. Maybe this crap is just draft posturing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 01:43:44 pm
It just seems the Bears have turned a complete 180 from offense to defense.

It's not really a turn.  The Bears have ALWAYS been about defense.  Just look at how many DBs and DL we've drafted the last few years compared to OL and WR.  Hell we've drafted 7 safeties in the last 7 years alone, at least one D-Lineman every year and sometimes two, etc. If all those draft picks had translated into a Top-5 defense that shuts down every offense they encounter I wouldn't mind, but the only thing our D can do pretty well is stop the run.  Against good passing offenses they get owned more games than not. That's where I start wondering if our D's problem isn't at least as much about scheme and coaching as it is talent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 05, 2012, 01:53:39 pm

Bears may just be hoping that their youth on the O-line can take a big step together in 2012.  Even if they believe that they still need another offensive tackle to play the swing spot. 

Angelo's trade for Cutler and his draft misfirings has left the team without a lot of young talent and little depth.

As for the Bears defensive scheme, its never been about having playmakers in the defensive backfield its been about strong pass rush and making the tackles you're supposed to make.

I'm now thinking DE is going to be the pick - Coples or Mercilus.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 02:09:49 pm
I'm now thinking DE is going to be the pick - Coples or Mercilus. 

Coples - besides being a physical clone of Peppers and coming from the same school - could be special.  Getting him at 19 would be a coup value-wise considering he's a Top 10 pick in some mocks. Question on Coples is his motor but that may be something that veteran leadership (Peppers, Urlacher, Briggs) can "fix."

http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012qcoples.php

Mercilus - IMO a bit more of a risk than Coples.  Unbelievable athleticism but really only logged one good year in college.  I kind of see him as the defensive equivalent of Stephen Hill...  loads of upside but may need a bit of time to ramp-up.  The comparisons to Simeon Rice are obvious but I don't think Mercilus' game is as developed as Rice's was when he came out.  It would be interesting to know how Marinelli (who worked with Rice in Tampa) compares the two. 

http://www.walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012wmercilus.php

The bottom line is, questions notwithstanding, if we're gonna go DE in Round 1 I'd be OK with either of these guys and I'd feel much better about either of them then the guy from Marshall or the guy from USC.   

FWIW most mock drafts identify the following teams ahead of us as being most likely to go for a pass rusher:  Seahawks (12), Jets (16), Chargers (18).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 05, 2012, 02:25:31 pm

I hear the knock on Mercilus about him only having one good year.  He's  junior right?  So maybe he didn't get to play much as a sophomore.

As for Coples motor - I think some were even saying that about Peppers when he came here from Carolina.  And I thought I read somewhere that Coples played some DT?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 02:36:24 pm
Mercilus career stats:

2008 - Redshirt
2009 - 11 games, 8 Tckl,  3.5 TFL, 1 sack
2010 - 13 games, 16 Tckl, 3 TFL, 1 sack
2011 - 13 games, 57 Tckl, 22.5 TFL, 16 sacks

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on April 05, 2012, 03:37:40 pm
With the holes we've got to fill, it wouldn't surprise me if we didn't get them all filled, we go 8-8 or 9-7 and miss the playoffs, Lovie gets tossed-we get Cowher (wishful thinking here...) and more holes are filled the next season and we get back to the playoffs.....your next two seasons brought to you by Sporty!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 03:38:07 pm
It just seems the Bears have turned a complete 180 from offense to defense.

I was speaking in terms of what we saw during the beginning of free agency to what we are witnessing now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 03:43:50 pm
With the holes we've got to fill, it wouldn't surprise me if we didn't get them all filled, we go 8-8 or 9-7 and miss the playoffs

I'm a bit more optimistic than that, but I do think our chances of getting back to the playoffs are going to depend at least as much on some regression by teams like the Packers, Lions and Saints as on the Bears improving.  We probably have the makings of a 10-6 or 11-5 team if we have a good draft and don't sustain the injuries that ruined our season last year... but expecting anything more than that is just delusional without at least another full year for Emery to do his thing. Angelo botched our roster so badly that it's it's gonna take more than one offseason to get our talent situation up to snuff.  We're not quite as bad-off as Angelo's buddy Tim Ruskell left the Seahawks but there are definite parallels, specifically in the areas of OL, WR and defensive playmakers.

But hopefully at least this season compared to last we'll see a few more players in Bears uni's that look like they belong on an NFL field.  And with guys like Jason Campbell and Michael Bush we have a significantly better chance of not totally tanking the season if (God forbid) Cutler and/or Forte should be lost to us again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on April 05, 2012, 03:51:06 pm
Quote
But hopefully at least this season compared to last we'll see a few more players in Bears uni's that look like they belong on an NFL field.

Amen to that! Marshall being one of them....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 04:13:31 pm
I havent said this before, but I have real worries that even with Marshall in the lineup that Cuttler will have enough time to get Marshall the ball. Even guys like Hester with all his speed didnt have much success. It seemed the line was porous enough and the receivers didnt break free enough to make big plays. But maybe I am just worrying too much
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 04:22:21 pm
Even guys like Hester with all his speed didnt have much success.

I share the same concerns about Cutler having enough time, but I would also point out that Hester's ineffectiveness as a WR has more to do with his lack of height and inability to separate from NFL CBs, then it does with his speed.  If you can't get away from coverage, you can't shield yourself off against bigger CBs in jump-ball situations and you're too small for your QB to see when he's under pressure, you could run 4.2s and you'd still be pretty much worthless as a WR.  On top of all that, his hands are average at best and his "catching radius" is small, i.e., the ball has to pretty much be right on the money or he's not coming down with it.

That's why I really think the way to go in revamping our WR corps is to have at least one other big guy opposite Marshall who may not be a total speed burner but can separate, go up high, and get physical with the bigger CBs we're seeing more of these days.  A guy like Nick Toon (who shocked everyone at his Pro Day by blazing a 4.38), Mohammed Sanu or Brian Quick would be a real nice 2nd or 3rd round pickup in that regard even though they wouldn't directly solve the issue of protecting Cutler in the pocket.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 04:28:09 pm
OK, so maybe we're not drafting a CB after all...  at least, not early:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/kelvin-hayden-agrees-to-terms-with-bears/

Hayden is 6', 195 and will be entering his 8th NFL season.  He will turn 29 in July. He was a 2nd round draft pick of the Colts and spent 6 years there before playing for the Falcons last season.  He went to Hubbard HS in Chicago and the U. of Illinois.

He has not played a full 16-game season since 2007, when he started for the Colts the entire year. Last season with the Falcons he appeared in 8 games, starting 1. 

Doesn't seem like he's been on the field much the last few years, and that makes me wonder if we picked up this guy to be a starter, to replace Bowman for depth, or to serve as a "bridge" solution at the #2 until we can get a young guy in here this draft or next.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 05:05:55 pm
I cant believe we'd sign an 8 game player. Our depth isnt good at CB. Maybe its a conditioning issue that can be straightened out, but that seems like a very bad signing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 05:06:40 pm
The Falcons starting CBs were pretty good last year so I don't think we can assume Hayden sucks just cause he didn't start and only appeared in 8 games.  He has missed quite a few games from 2008 onward, and if that's all due to injuries then that's more of a red flag and would explain why he's on the FA market for cheap.  But I just read the Tribune article on his signing and they make it pretty clear that Peanut and Jennings are the starters and Hayden is a depth guy, i.e. the replacement for Bowman.  With DJ Moore presumably the nickelback.     

FWIW Hayden is the guy that had a 56-yard pick 6 of Grossman against us in the SuperBowl.   :-\
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 05:11:44 pm
Yap, like you say about Hester not getting separation. Well the same holds true with Marshall. If he is unable to get free quick enough we havent gained a thing. OTOH if Cuttler has the green light to change the plays at the LOS then maybe we will be all right.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 05:13:47 pm
Yeah except that Marshall is 6'4 230 and Hester is 5'10 190.  Quite a difference in target size there, as well as catching radius.  Plus he knows Cutler's preferences and tendencies so I expect those two will be able to make some magic even (or especially) when plays break down and they have to improvise.

I don't know Marshall's speed but I think it's somewhere in the 4.45 - 4.5 range which is more than adequate for a guy as big as a small TE.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 05, 2012, 05:18:42 pm
I see your point but that speed is still not as good as Hester's speed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 05, 2012, 05:58:54 pm
I'm a lot less worried about Marshall being able to get open than I am about Cutler having time to get him the ball. Lots of rollouts and play action, I'm thinking.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 05, 2012, 09:04:47 pm

I think its too easy just to sit back and blame the o-line this offseason for all our passing woes.  In fact, I'd bet there were just as many bad pass plays caused by our receivers inability to get open.  Recall our starters for much of the year were Hester and Roy Williams and Bennett missed a good part of the seasonl.

I don't know what the offense would have done without Forte.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 05, 2012, 09:49:53 pm
Trib is reporting the Bear signed another cb, a Whilhite, ex of the Pats.  This gm seems to being making sure there is depth.  He doesn't say much, just acts. Very midwestern. Gotta like it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 05, 2012, 11:23:10 pm
 Hey ... FUUUCK depth at DL ... **** sixth against the run ... give the lads some credit.  >:(  :D  ::)

 28th against the pass ... maybe we should address that.

 Emery just signed two CB's? Nevermind.  ;D

 We can start thinking in different directions ...

 the sky has opened up.

 Which means your brain has just opened up.

 1. Floyd

 2. OL

 3. Toub's got his guys, Marinelli just got two CB's. Lets be looking back at offense again ... TE/OL.

 Wow ... if that came true I would gladly trade our 4rth thru 7th ... for a second.

 If it was a high third rounder ... lets talk.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 06, 2012, 08:03:30 am
From the Trib today...  this explains why we got a former 2nd round draft pick (Hayden) for the league minimum...  and also why we hedged our bets with a 2nd CB signing:

The Colts released him before the 2011 season after he had been placed on injured reserve in 2010 with a neck injury. He appeared in eight games with the Falcons last season before going on injured reserve again with a toe injury. He has been in a walking boot and won't be ready for the start of the Bears' offseason program April 16.

Dude is the defensive equivalent of Chris Williams, medically speaking.  Hopefully Emery's strength-and-conditioning mojo can rub off cause this guy has been off the field more than on it throughout his career.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 06, 2012, 08:09:14 am
Yeah I aluded to that yesterday
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 06, 2012, 08:19:08 am
Someone was joking on one of the comment boards yesterday that Hayden's signing would have been announced sooner, but it was delayed cause he pulled a hammy on the way to the table.    :-\
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 06, 2012, 09:28:40 am
One thing I really have to prop Emery for, that not a lot of people are talking about, is how he replenished the talent on the STs.  Some GMs would see that we won't have Knox as a KR this year, and see Corey Graham sign with another team, and just say "oh well" and count on scrubs we already have on the roster to step up.  But Emery went out and got arguably the best ST players from three quality teams (Niners, Falcons, Giants), and the end result is that the talent level on the Bears STs for 2012 hasn't dropped off at all and in fact we may have upgraded.  There can't be a happier guy than Dave Toub about how this offseason has turned out.

I know it was a head scratcher for a lot of us when FA opened and other teams were out signing big names and Emery was bringing in guys like Weems and Costanza...  but he knows where our bread is buttered.  Toub is the best coach on this staff and our STs have literally won games for us when the D and/or the O was not up to the job in a particular game (which under Lovie, has happened far more often than it should).   And frankly, it appeared to me that our normally high standard of ST play slipped a bit last year (and especially towards the end of the season) so it may have been time for a personnel shakeup on that unit anyway.

If these new ST additions play to their potential (and under Toub I have to think they will), I expect we'll see better ST play than we've seen the last few years.  Which would be saying something.  That should translate to a lot of "free yards" that can only make both the O and D's job that much easier.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 06, 2012, 11:15:08 am
We absolutely agree there. Its gonna make this season enjoyable to watch
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 06, 2012, 11:18:27 am
Even with the improved depth, staying healthy is going to mean everything to our success this season.

The Packers don't look to be going away anytime soon, and I see the Bears losing both times to them this season again.  They're just one of those teams that's got our number.  BUT I think the Lions are ripe to fall back a bit so if we can improve the two areas that killed us last year -- pass offense and pass defense -- I think a 10-win season and a wildcard berth is definitely within reach.  A lot of people think the Bears could (and should) have been in the playoffs instead of the Lions last year and hopefully this is the year that happens.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 06, 2012, 01:38:54 pm
Even with the improved depth, staying healthy is going to mean everything to our success this season.

The Packers don't look to be going away anytime soon, and I see the Bears losing both times to them  this season again.  They're just one of those teams that's got our number.  BUT I think the Lions are ripe to fall back a bit so if we can improve the two areas that killed us last year -- pass offense and pass defense -- I think a 10-win season and a wildcard berth is definitely within reach.  A lot of people think the Bears could (and should) have been in the playoffs instead of the Lions last year and hopefully this is the year that happens.



 From what Emery has done so far ... before the draft ...

 I would take issue with the highlited red letters.  :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 06, 2012, 01:48:04 pm
Until we can routinely put Aaron Rogers on the ground and/or knock down his passes, we'll keep losing to the Packers.

The Packers can be beaten...  but that's the only way.  And unless and until our D is at the level of a team like the Giants, Rogers will keep beating us. We're a ways away from a Giants caliber D yet.  A good draft might help us with the talent but we're still handicapped by Lovie's scheme which Rogers has clearly figured out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 06, 2012, 02:22:43 pm
Until we can routinely put Aaron Rogers on the ground and/or knock down his passes, we'll keep losing to the Packers.

The Packers can be beaten...  but that's the only way.  And unless and until our D is at the level of a team like the Giants, Rogers will keep beating us. We're a ways away from a Giants caliber D yet.  A good draft might help us with the talent but we're still handicapped by Lovie's scheme which Rogers has clearly figured out.

 How about a Hayden - Thomas CB blitz?

 One of them fuuuckers is going to get him.  :D

 THE MAIN THING ... is to keep Rodgers ON THE BENCH ... as Cutler works thru his progression of WR's,

 TE's and RB's. Yay team !
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on April 06, 2012, 02:27:18 pm
Like the new back we've got...can't remember the guys name but we needed a bruiser in there. Know very little about him and the new QB. Hope they make our team better. We're getting guys I don't know. Hayden? Campbell? Bush Bell or whatever his name is? I know or have seen Marshall and know he is connected to Cut so we know that'll turn out good. But a shakeup is good...we need fresh new intense bodies to get this thing moving!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 06, 2012, 02:40:55 pm
Sporty, here's my download on Emery's moves other than Marshall:

- Campbell vs. Hanie:  GINORMOUS upgrade at the position (backup QB) that singlehandedly cost us the playoffs last year; to get a starting-caliber QB to come in on a 1-year deal knowing he is not in contention to start takes some doing, but somehow Emery managed to swing it

- Bush vs. Barber:  substantial upgrade at #2 RB; Bush is 20 lbs heavier (245), younger, can catch and pass block; consensus best FA RB on the market and we reeled him in even though he knows he's in for a backup vs. starting role

- Weems, Costanzo and Devin Thomas vs. Corey Graham:  Beyond the fact we went 3-for-1 on STs, these 3 guys we picked up were arguably the best ST players on their respective teams last year; these are signings that have gone largely under the radar but given how much our team depends on winning the field position battle I believe they will return much more impact than their lack of "name value" is leading people to believe.

- Kelvin Hayden vs. Zack Bowman:  An apparent upgrade, but Hayden has missed a lot of games due to injury and in fact is in a walking boot now so it may take some time to see how this one plays out.



Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 06, 2012, 02:51:19 pm
Sporty, here's my download on Emery's moves other than Marshall:

- Campbell vs. Hanie:  GINORMOUS upgrade at the position (backup QB) that singlehandedly cost us the playoffs last year; to get a starting-caliber QB to come in on a 1-year deal knowing he is not in contention to start takes some doing, but somehow Emery managed to swing it

- Bush vs. Barber:  substantial upgrade at #2 RB; Bush is 20 lbs heavier (245), younger, can catch and pass block; consensus best FA RB on the market and we reeled him in even though he knows he's in for a backup vs. starting role

- Weems, Castonza and Devin Thomas vs. Corey Graham:  Beyond the fact we went 3-for-1 on STs, these 3 guys we picked up were arguably the best ST players on their respective teams last year; these three signings I believe will return much more impact than their lack of "name value" is leading people to believe.

- Kelvin Hayden vs. Zack Bowman:  An apparent upgrade, but Hayden has missed a lot of games due to injury and in fact is in a walking boot now so it may take some time to see how this one plays out.





 These signings have been coming so fast that I get Thomas confused with Wilhite. :P

 Wait ... is Hayden the ST guy or is it Weems? ???

 Its GOOD to be dis confused when it comes to DAAAA BEARRSSE !!  :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 06, 2012, 03:16:06 pm
Yeah there's a whole new cast of characters to keep track of.  Here are the new additions so far (Uniform ##s given where available, and the player's last team is at the end:

#2, Jason Campbell - QB (Oakland)

#29, Michael Bush - RB  (Oakland)

#15, Brandon Marshall - WR (Miami)

#14, Eric Weems - ST / WR  (Atlanta)

#57, Blake Costanzo - ST / LB (San Fran)

#11, Devin Thomas - ST / WR  (NY Giants)

Kelvin Hayden - CB (Atlanta)

Jonathan Wilhite - CB  (Denver)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 06, 2012, 04:01:05 pm
Hayden played CB in the cover two for the Colts.  He intercepted Grossman in the SB and returned it for a TD if I remember correctly.  He will be up to speed quickly and should be ok as a back up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 06, 2012, 11:36:58 pm

Bears will have quite a few guys competing for special team roster spots.  LB Dom DeCicco trailed only Graham in ST tackles last season. 

And a couple linebackers we signed late in the season looked pretty good:  Jabara Williams and Patrick Trahan.  And don't forget last year's 6th rounder who was red-shirted LB JT Thomas 

Bears were high on rookie FA safety Anthony Walters and the guy who replaced him Winston Venable.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 06, 2012, 11:52:57 pm
Are Walters and Venable still on the roster?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 07, 2012, 09:30:57 am
Isnt Venable a saftey?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 07, 2012, 10:00:30 am
Yes he is a safety and he is still on the roster according to Bears.com
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 07, 2012, 04:04:27 pm
Venable is not starter material. Depth and special teams only.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 07, 2012, 07:54:30 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0408-pompei-bears-chicago--20120408,0,5480643.column

Emery considered every hole on the team and determined if free agency or the draft offered a better way to fill it.

"Once you've gone through a self-evaluation process, which is the critical factor in the whole process, the next step is to evaluate the class of unrestricted free agents and see how that could possibly affect the draft," Emery said. "If there are three or four quality wideouts in free agency, can you get players of comparable ability in the draft? Is the draft deep enough so that when it comes to your selection, those players will be available?"
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 07, 2012, 08:44:40 pm
Bears expect offensive line improvement from within

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0408-offensive-line-bears-chicago--20120408,0,1020491.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 09, 2012, 07:50:47 am
Bears expect offensive line improvement from within

Very risky approach.  Gotta hope that Tice & Co. know what they're doing.  It's a pretty big gam-ble considering a franchise QB's future is at stake. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 09, 2012, 08:20:00 am
The tone of the article seemed to be saying that they arent going for an OT, unless its a developmental player after the 3rd round. I dont believe its a strong draft for OTs and they will get shut out of the big 3. Since they now have Bush, Adams and Clutts they have some guys capable of blocking those DEs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 09, 2012, 08:49:30 am

Bears don't want to draft an OT.  They have two young guys right now that could start for another decade which would enable them to use that early pick(s) at other positions of need.

But if you don't have a capable LT you're going to have a dysfunctional offense no matter who you have helping him out.

I'm thinking that Bears are leaning toward DE but if Martin is there at 19 it's a toss up.

Of course the Bears could draft a DT in round 1 and tell Melton to lose some weight.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 09, 2012, 08:50:08 am
I have a feeling there will be many designed plays that have Cutler rolling to his right.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 09, 2012, 08:54:06 am
Of course the Bears could draft a DT in round 1 and tell Melton to lose some weight.

That's an interesting possibility and actually, I've been wondering why they haven't given Melton at least an occasional snap at RDE.  He's short for a DE (6'3), but he has a really quick first step. 

A couple of guys to watch in that regard on Draft Day are Fletcher Cox and Devon Still.  They're both in that 6'4 300-lb range where they could line up at either DT or DE depending on the play and/or matchup.  They're both listed as DTs on most draft boards but have the flexibilty to play either position...  which seems to be the direction Lovie and Marinelli have been going more and more with the DL the last few years.   Still concerns me a little bit cause of the last Penn State DL we drafted (Michael Haynes), but I Wiki'd him and he has two cousins who played in the NFL  (Art Still and Levon Kirkland), and they were both pretty good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 09, 2012, 11:09:09 am
Update on the Forte situation...  although really, not much new to report.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-forte-not-expected-for-start-of-bears-offseason-workouts-20120409,0,4311309.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 09, 2012, 11:45:10 am
I didn't see it over the weekend but apparently Okoye signed with the Bucs.

The DT depth chart is very thin right now.  This is the first move (or, non-move) by Emery that I really question.  Sure feels like we've created a hole that didn't have to be there, and I hope it doesn't force us into taking a DT with a 2nd or 3rd round pick that could have gone to another position otherwise.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 09, 2012, 09:47:46 pm
Isnt Cox the DT from Mississippi State? He is a good one.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on April 10, 2012, 08:41:28 am
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jim-mcmahon-named-bank-fraud-case-just-one-172358322.html

I wonder if the recent publicity about McMahon's concussion injuries and memory problems was to provide a possible defense for this coming lawsuit?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 10, 2012, 09:06:34 am
Isnt Cox the DT from Mississippi State? He is a good one.

Yeah he is good, he has a ton of experience against the best college competition in the country, and at 6'4 300 he'd be able to play either DE or DT as the situation and matchup warrants.  He didn't get the best coaching at Mississippi State and as a result his technique still needs some work but he's got all the tools to work with.

A lot of mock drafts have him going in the Top 15 so it would take a little luck for us to have a shot at him, though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 10, 2012, 09:13:41 am
And the thing about his ability to play both DE and DT reminds me of Izzy who also can play both inside and outside
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 10, 2012, 09:21:47 am
And the thing about his ability to play both DE and DT reminds me of Izzy who also can play both inside and outside.

And we also played Peppers inside some last year.  So with a guy like Cox, plus Peppers and Izzy, you'd have three tallish guys who can play inside or outside and give you 6 long arms to get up in the passing lanes.  To me that gives us a lot better odds at shutting down Rogers and Stafford than drafting some one-trick pony who can only rush from the outside.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 10, 2012, 09:25:55 am
I would be happy with Cox for depth on the DL. If he develops like Paea we'd be in good shape
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 10, 2012, 09:31:11 am
To me that gives us a lot better odds at shutting down Rogers and Stafford than drafting some one-trick pony who can only rush from the outside.

When talking of pass rushing DEs - I'll take the one-trick pony who can only rush from the outside over the jack of all trades master of none guy that play both positions.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 10, 2012, 09:40:08 am
When talking of pass rushing DEs - I'll take the one-trick pony who can only rush from the outside over the jack of all trades master of none guy that play both positions.

Except that the better OCs and QBs know how to beat the outside rush game by now.  Quick drops, rollouts, slants and screens. Or, LT rides the DE outside of the pocket, QB steps up for an easy 10-15 yard completion.

We haven't had an outside/speed DE that made any impact whatsoever since Mark Anderson's rookie season and I'm very skeptical about how much anyone we drafted at that position would help us now.  Most teams we'll face don't have an OC as dense as Martz or a LT as bad as Webb so I see our ROI on a speed rusher being slim to none. NFL pass offenses (at least on the playoff caliber teams) have pretty much schemed the speed rushing DE out of the equation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 10, 2012, 09:47:42 am
I would be happy with Cox for depth on the DL. If he develops like Paea we'd be in good shape

Well, we wouldn't be drafting Cox (or any 1st round D-Lineman) for depth.  We'd be drafting him to start and make an impact right away.  You draft depth and development prospects on the 2nd and 3rd day.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 10, 2012, 09:52:25 am
Except that the better OCs and QBs know how to beat the outside rush game by now.  Quick drops, rollouts, slants and screens. Or, LT rides the DE outside of the pocket, QB steps up for an easy 10-15 yard completion.

The easy 10 - 15 yard completion doesn't become easy if over the course of the game you can take away the long dropbacks and deeper patterns.  Defenses can adjust.

We haven't had an outside/speed DE that made any impact whatsoever since Mark Anderson's rookie season and I'm very skeptical about how much anyone we drafted at that position would help us now.  Most teams we'll face don't have an OC as dense as Martz or a LT as bad as Webb so I see our ROI on a speed rusher being slim to none. NFL pass offenses (at least on the playoff caliber teams) have pretty much schemed the speed rushing DE out of the equation.


Did you see the Giants during the playoffs?  The goal is not to have one speed rusher but several - we have one and yes he can be schemed out of the equation.  Let's get two and now our DTs become more effective as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 10, 2012, 09:56:33 am
I see your point, however I am sure when Paea was drafted they expected him to start too. I just dont expect him to be opening game starter. I expect them to bring him along slowly
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 10, 2012, 10:23:39 am
My point about having 3 or 4 guys who can play DE or DT is that I don't want us to get into situations where we've got a speed RDE who's getting stonewalled by a quality LT, but we can't move him inside to find a mismatch so we're essentially playing with 10 men on D the whole game.

Most teams in the NFL have at least one weak link on their OL, but unless you're the Bears that weak link is usually not the LT.  I'd like to see us in a position where at least one of our D-Linemen has an overwhelming advantage over the guy across from him on almost every snap of the game.  If you can keep their OL guessing on who they're going to be blocking from play to play -- or at least, make each O-Lineman block two or three different players over the course of a game -- it seems to me your DL has a significant advantage even if the man-for-man talent on your DL isn't as good as the opposing team's OL.  It's a case of countering superior talent with scheme, much as I suspect Tice will be doing with our OL this year.

Now, the nice thing about a speed DE is that if he can get free for a blindside sack, you have a pretty good chance of forcing a fumble and/or putting the QB out of the game.  So it's not like an outside rusher can't make an impact, it's just that those plays are usually very few and far between because OCs have adapted their systems to protect against the blindside rush and teams have prioritized LT above pretty much every other position on the offense besides the QB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 10, 2012, 11:11:31 am

If you're talking about Perry - he weighs 271 lbs.  Peppers and Idonijie are heavier but Alex Brown and Ogunleye played at that weight or less.

You get too hung up on player's weights.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on April 10, 2012, 11:13:26 am
You get too hung up on player's weights.

reminds me of Logic...wonder where he went?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 10, 2012, 11:22:25 am
If you're talking about Perry - he weighs 271 lbs.  Peppers and Idonijie are heavier but Alex Brown and Ogunleye played at that weight or less.

You get too hung up on player's weights.


As I said yesterday, my concern with Perry isn't that he's 271.  It's that up until this year he was 250.  21 pounds muscle gain in less than a year... 4.5 40...  35 reps of 225...   USC...  hmmm...   HGH much?

If he's pumped-up 250-lber how effective if he gonna be when he goes off the juice and loses all that bulk?  THAT's my biggest red flag on him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 10, 2012, 11:36:24 am

And as I said yesterday, doesn't the NFL test for HGH?

And here's a tidbit for you on Perry: "Beat up on projected 1st rounder Jonathan Martin when he faced Stanford".

http://ogdraft.com/2012/01/nick-perry-scouting-report/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 10, 2012, 12:08:57 pm
Thanks for the link. 

Interesting that that report lists his weight at 250 and his 40 as 4.65.

Also interesting that the report is dated January 13 2012.... barely 3 months ago. So between then and now Perry somehow "found" 21 lbs and .15 of speed.  Oka..y..yyy... 

Re the NFL testing for HGH...  yeah they do but by the time the guy's on your roster it's a little too late.

I don't know if NFL teams are allowed to submit draft prospects to drug tests as part of their due diligence, but in Perry's case I think that would be a very good idea.  With a Top 20 draft pick at stake it would be good to know how much of his game is natural and how much has come through other means.  He sounds to me like a guy who has done everything possible to pump up (pun intended) his draft stock in terms of measurables but is that really the player some team is gonna get or is it just a combine creation?   Tony Mandarich, Brian Bosworth and Mike Mamula come to mind.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 10, 2012, 04:40:47 pm
I don't know if NFL teams are allowed to submit draft prospects to drug tests as part of their due diligence, but in Perry's case I think that would be a very good idea. 

Agreed, but the kid had the production before the combine and that should be the biggest part of his evaluation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 10, 2012, 05:15:07 pm
The NFL does not test for HGH.  They want to but the players union keeps blocking them.  The NFL wants to use the Olympic athlete guidelines and the players union says that NFL players need their own guide lines. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 10, 2012, 05:58:50 pm
IIRC USC plays a 3-4 D. So is Perry a legit 4-3 DE or is he an OLB who's bulked himself up to try and make a few more bucks in the draft?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 10, 2012, 08:42:38 pm
Is the HGH testing sticking point all about blood testing?  I think that is the way to do it, and the players dont want to submit to blood tests. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 10, 2012, 11:47:07 pm
Southern California defensive end Nick Perry will likely be selected as a 3-4 outside linebacker in the 2012 NFL Draft. He finished the 2011 season with 9.5 sacks and 54 total stops on his way to being a finalist for the Hendricks Award (nation's best defensive end).


He played RDE at USC with his hand down - the big negative on him is he doesn't have experience dropping back and playing 3-4 OLB which is where some have projected he'll play in the NFL.

He'll probably go late first round...well after our 19th pick.



Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 11, 2012, 05:11:37 am
The wrestler?

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/25481/Bears-try-out-OL-Adam-Goldberg/Default.aspx

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on April 11, 2012, 06:54:36 am
Speaking of Roy Williams, has anyone seen 'storage wars'? He's on there on occasion bidding on storage units. Seems like a nice guy but man he can't catch a football....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 08:12:27 am
Speaking of Roy Williams, has anyone seen 'storage wars'? He's on there on occasion bidding on storage units. Seems like a nice guy but man he can't catch a football....

He's shopping for his next place to live...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 08:18:06 am
I see Nick Perry and Courtney Upshaw being in the same boat.  Both had highly productive college careers highlighted by a real knack for getting to the passer.  The problem is they're tweeners.  They look the part of a 3-4 OLB, but are liabilities in coverage.  So even though they have great talent they are likely to fall cause #1 they don't have a "true" NFL position and #2 they're very unlikely to be every-down players.  Teams drafting in the Top 20 or 25 really don't like to spend a 1st round pick on guys like that when they usually also have needs at other positions and there are guys available at those positions who can plug-in right away and will be on the field for more snaps.

In Perry's case, rather than putting on 20 lbs to try and improve his marketability as a 4-3 DE (in a draft class loaded with quality 4-3 DE prospects and where he's still undersized at 6'3), I think he would have been better off staying at 250 and working on his coverage skills to try and move up the board at OLB (where the draft class this year is pretty thin).  But we'll see how it all plays out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 08:24:01 am
Urlacher gives Emery the thumbs-up...  and takes a subtle dig at Angelo in the process.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/urlacher-bears-are-making-moves-like-we-havent-in-the-past/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 09:02:02 am
The wrestler?

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/25481/Bears-try-out-OL-Adam-Goldberg/Default.aspx


Goldberg is a 6'7 305-lb RT who was an UDFA signing of the Vikings while Tice was there. His last four years have been with the Rams who are one of the few teams in the NFL whose OL may be even worse than the Bears. 

Would strictly be a depth move and I'm not sure he's any better than the 3rd guy we've got now (Levi Horn).  So I guess I can understand bringing him in for a look but I'm really not sure he's worth a roster spot.

Tribune article:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-chicago-bears-take-a-look-at-freeagent-tackle-adam-goldberg-20120411,0,3187691.story

Hopefully the picture in the Trib article isn't reflective of Goldberg's technique.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 11:37:33 am
And this is why Emery signed Bush...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/report-matt-forte-wont-sign-anything-but-a-long-term-deal/

I hope they can get this resolved.  Bush is a decent RB but it's pretty much one step forward and one step back for our offense if we go into the regular season plus Brandon Marshall but minus Forte.

Plus, Forte has not signed his franchise tender which as I understand it, means he's technically not under contract with the Bears and can't be traded until he is. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 11, 2012, 11:51:54 am
Forte will miss time but at some point he will sign the franchise tender.  If not he loses an accrued season and gets no money this year.  I think July 15th is the cut off date for him to sign.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on April 11, 2012, 11:52:49 am
Reading the comments after that article is interesting. Looks like most of the readers support management on this one.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 12:00:23 pm
I'm not too concerned about Forte's conditioning if he misses OTAs.  He's never been a guy that lets himself get out of shape, not to mention, if he seriously expects some other team to make him an offer he will want to be ready to go.

And as far as learning (or re-learning) the offense, Tice is on record saying that the philosophy and terminology of the run offense will be the same as last year.  And for better or worse, it looks like the OL personnel will be largely the same as last year too so it's not like he's gonna have to learn how to run behind 3 or 4 new guys.

In fact, as far as I'm concerned the less mileage on that rehabbed knee before the games start to count, the better.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 12:39:20 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/bears-extend-lance-briggs-through-2014/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 01:24:38 pm
Well there goes the rest of our cap I guess.  Sorry, Matt. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/11/three-years-17-5-million-for-briggs/

 Really hope Briggs is good for 3 more years cause that's a lot of coin.

This also leads me to believe that either  a) Lovie is sticking around for longer than this season  or, b) they feel Briggs will be able to plug into another defensive scheme after Lovie leaves.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on April 11, 2012, 01:42:36 pm
I read somewhere (lost the link :( ) that it restructures the contract so that it actually gives cap space for this year. Either to allow for more wiggle room for Forte or an aknowledgement that they need more cap space....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 02:16:00 pm
We do have one of the best cap-ololigist / contract guys in the biz in Cliff Stein so I'll trust they know what they're doing with this deal.

But in light of the current situation with Forte it certainly won't calm down any of the folks who think the Bears defense gets everything it wants while the O gets sloppy seconds.

Certain folks are starting to chatter about a draft-day trade involving Forte and I have to admit, it doesn't seem as farfetched now as it used to.  It would just be a shame to finally have acquired a #1 WR and then see Forte walk out the door.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 11, 2012, 03:20:21 pm

 Can you imagine being Emery in the Warroom on draft day?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 03:28:53 pm
Can you imagine being Emery in the Warroom on draft day?

Hopefully it's not just Lovie telling him which player to pick and Emery saying, "Yes sir".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 11, 2012, 03:53:12 pm
Can you imagine being Emery in the Warroom on draft day?

Hopefully it's not just Lovie telling him which player to pick and Emery saying, "Yes sir".

 So far in the FA signings ... its the other way around.

 Emery has given it up to Toub also.

 Which I never expected.

 All the moves so far looks like Emery in the catbox seat.

 A slick motherfuuucker coming in on the backside and letting people get their way.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 11, 2012, 04:59:57 pm
The Bears can't trade Forte because Forte has not signed the tender and does not plan to until July 15th.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 11, 2012, 05:00:38 pm
Not to defend Angelo but weren't the Bears something like $18m under the cap last year?   

Angelo's budget limited him to guys like Okoye, Hurd, Barber, Merriweather, and Roy Williams.  All now gone.  But he did sign the punter Adam Podlesh - a keeper.

The big difference for Emery was the Brandon Marshall trade and the Bears lucked into that as Miami was looking to dump him.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 05:02:49 pm
Angelo's budget limited him to guys like Okoye, Hurd, Barber, Merriweather, and Roy Williams.  All now gone. 

And Vernon Gholston...  who didn't even last the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 11, 2012, 05:10:15 pm
Given Emery's reputation for preparedness and attention to detail, I think one thing we can look forward to this draft (and beyond) is everything being buttoned down administratively.

No draft day trades that turn out not to be trades (Ravens last year), no "checkbox" fiasco's, etc.  That will be nice.  Let the talking heads poke fun at some other team's front office for a change.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 11, 2012, 05:18:10 pm
Given Emery's reputation for preparedness and attention to detail, I think one thing we can look forward to this draft (and beyond) is everything being buttoned down administratively.

No draft day trades that turn out not to be trades (Ravens last year), no "checkbox" fiasco's, etc.  That will be nice.  Let the talking heads poke fun at some other team's front office for a change.

 Yap,

 We cant predict the draft ... only dream.

 We all want whats best for the team ...

 but on draft day ...  ???

 BPA ... at the 19th bro.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 11, 2012, 05:32:03 pm

The checkbox and the Raven no-trade were minor errors that didn't hurt the team.  And Angelo was pretty good in acquiring veteran talent - half the team was not acquired through the draft.

But because of his lack of production in the draft is why Angelo is now unemployed.

Wouldn't it be great if Emery hit on 3 or 4 studs in this draft to take this team to the next level?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 11, 2012, 05:42:18 pm
If he does that there is a good chance the Bears will be serious Super Bowl contenders this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on April 11, 2012, 07:03:38 pm
The Forte thing ticks me off. Hey, you don't want the $7 million for one years worth of work, I'm sure many others would take it. That's not chump change. I don't get it. Take the one year deal and get paid! Is the guy looking for some monster signing bonus or something? I don't at all fault management on this one. The guy is overstepping his worth IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 11, 2012, 07:13:49 pm

“Don’t spend a lot of time imagining the worst-case scenario. It rarely goes down as you imagine it will, and if by some fluke it does, you will have lived it twice.” Michael J. Fox
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 11, 2012, 07:16:44 pm
Either Forte will get a long term deal or he will sign his franchise tender on July 15th.  He would be a moron to hold out past that.

Plus I am not concerned because he was in the best shape of his life last year and there was no off season.   So the Bears hold all of the cards. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 11, 2012, 08:22:22 pm
Is this Goldberg move just to add confusion and disguise the Bears draft choices?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 12, 2012, 10:35:17 am
Is this Goldberg move just to add confusion and disguise the Bears draft choices?

I would say it's much more likely a hedge against Carimi not coming back 100% or getting hurt again.  In that respect it's a smart move.

Haven't heard that we signed him though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 12, 2012, 10:37:10 am
If he does that there is a good chance the Bears will be serious Super Bowl contenders this year.

Not so fast, grasshopper.  All our guys have to stay healthy.  And Lovie can't be giving away wins with bonehead in-game management.

But yeah, 3 or 4 immediate contributors from this year's draft would be unprecedented...  and would help us a bunch.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 12, 2012, 11:09:31 am
I dunno. In years past with the Jer I would agree, but this guy seems to be filling in the gaps, so if somebody goes down, the Bear may actually have someone that can fill in , as opposded to looking good on the sideline and cashing checks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 12, 2012, 11:16:27 am
Remember last year's Packers - all the talking heads had them penciled in for the Super Bowl - undefeated season and all that...

Every team needs a magic combination of good luck to get there
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 12, 2012, 01:47:35 pm
If the Saints crash and burn this year, that could open up a playoff spot for the Bears.

Either that, or we simply take care of business in our division and the playoffs should work themselves out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 12, 2012, 02:00:46 pm
Can the Bears make the playoffs? I suppose its possible. I just wonder how 3 teams from our division making it. I dont see the Packers collapsing and I think the Lions have enough talent to make the playoffs. So I guess it all depends on how we fare within the division. How we do this season depends on how well we draft. This being Emery's first draft, you wonder just how good of a draft we come up with. Lets get through the draft before we start talking playoffs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 12, 2012, 02:11:08 pm
I'm starting to wonder if the Bears will be shopping Hester.  With Weems being while not great but not bad, you have to wonder.  I really hope not. Bad,bad move IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 12, 2012, 02:51:43 pm
So I guess it all depends on how we fare within the division.

That's why I said if we take care of business in the division, the playoffs should sort themselves out in our favor.  I.e., sweep the Vikings, sweep the Lions and at worst, split with the Packers.

I seriously think this Bears team, right up to Lovie himself, no longer believes they can beat the Packers.  Granted, losing to them 3 times in one calendar year can do that but somehow we have to acquire the talent to be competitive with the Packers, and then the Bears need to believe they can do it, and go out and execute accordingly.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 12, 2012, 02:59:22 pm
So I guess it all depends on how we fare within the division. How we do this season depends on how well we draft. This being Emery's first draft, you wonder just how good of a draft we come up with. Lets get through the draft before we start talking playoffs.

Bears were a playoff quality team last year prior to the injury to Cutler.  I don't think their roster has regressed from last year so they should be back in the playoff hunt again this year.  Injuries of course are a huge factor.  And expecting a bunch of rookies from your draft to make the difference in your season is risky, its a total crapshoot.   Anything from a rookie should be considered a bonus.

I think a bigger factor in the team's success is how the younger guys already on the roster progress:  Major Wright, Chris Conte, J'Marcus Webb, Paea, and I'd put Kellen Davis in that category too, even though he's been here a few more years.

But really it all comes down to Jay and how good a season he can have given the players around him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 12, 2012, 03:39:59 pm
I don't think their roster has regressed from last year

I agree with this...  with the exception of DL which has been noticeably depleted but presumably will be a focus of attention in the draft as well as possibly, some late training camp cuts from other teams.

The other place where we still have work to do is adding playmakers.  Brandon Marshall being the notable exception but pretty much everyone else Emery has brought on board is depth as opposed to anyone who is going to make an impact in a starting role.  Again, this needs to be a focus of the draft, since the bottom 2/3 of the roster now appears to be pretty well shored up (at least at the majority of positions).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 12, 2012, 04:20:41 pm

...with the exception of DL which has been noticeably depleted but presumably will be a focus of attention in the draft as well as possibly, some late training camp cuts from other teams.

The other place where we still have work to do is adding playmakers.


Offensively, playmakers are at QB, HB, and WR.  We're set at QB/HB with quality and depth.  And if Bennett starts along with Marshall with Hester in the slot - we're OK...barely.  A healthy Knox upgrades this unit from a C grade to B.

Defensively, playmakers on the Bears are the d-line, particularly 3 technique DT and the 2 DEs.  Bears have 2 3 technique DTs in Melton and Paea - so they probably need to add a Bears version of a NT to go along with Toeaina.  I don't think DT will be a top priority.  At DE, Idonijie is solid but they are just renting him for the year and we're looking to upgrade the spot with the guy from the Jaguars.

So looking at the draft from a playmakers angle:   Round 1: WR/DE  Round 2: DE/WR   Round 3:  could be a NT or OT 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 12, 2012, 04:26:37 pm
I'm also still concerned about our depth at OT.  It's debatable whether we even have two NFL caliber starters at that position... and it gets worse from there. 

If Webb goes down, Carimi can probably switch sides but if Carimi goes down again we're in big trouble cause we can't slide Webb over to the right side and Lance Louis can't be expected to carry the freight at RT again. 

The current Bears roster (per ChicagoBears.com) is really out of whack with 8 interior OL (Garza, Chris Williams, Edwin Williams, Lance Louis, Ricky Henry, Mansfield Wrotto, Chris Spencer and Reggie Stephens) compared to only 3 OTs (Carimi, Webb and Levi Horn). It seems like our options there are either to pickup a castoff T from another team (Goldberg), or spend a draft pick on it as Dallas' 3rd round scenario proposes.   

Bobby Massie appears to be the best of the 2nd-tier guys but I highly doubt he makes it out of the 2nd round.  The two OTs from FSU (Sanders and Datko) don't do much for me.  So if we wait till the 3rd for our OT we're probably settling for either a big-program guy with some significant limitations and/or injury concerns, or a small-school guy who may have good measurables but falls due to level of competition concerns. 

To be honest I haven't been reading scouting reports on OTs below the 2nd round but this guy could be a 3rd round prospect:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=46620
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 12, 2012, 08:02:28 pm
Sportster, don't worry about Forte not signing the  tag yet, most players don't. If I remember right if they sign the tag they are bound to it for this year. If they wait they are able to negotiate for a long term deal. It also means they don't have to attend anything.
I think that all changes 7/15, they have to sign the tag or start losing time towards an accrued season.

It also won't surprise me if they can't work out a long term deal before the deadline that Emery gives Forte they old speech that if he plays good soldier this year they will either work out a deal next off season or let him test the market.

Right now if we have accurate info I think Forte is overpriced.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 13, 2012, 04:31:13 pm
And it isnt just Republican Governor Walker of Wisconsin wising up. And besides the teachers dont even teach good anymore. Chicago schools are probably the worst in the country
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on April 13, 2012, 07:27:42 pm
Reposted #1572 t0 Politics board.  Senior moment.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 13, 2012, 07:37:05 pm
I removed the post.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 14, 2012, 01:08:29 am

 I posted the post that I removed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: AmazinGrace on April 14, 2012, 10:35:17 am
Quote
The checkbox and the Raven no-trade were minor errors that didn't hurt the team.

Sorry Dallas, but I gotta jump in on that because it was always something that really pissed me off about Angelo.  The checkbox fiasco DID hurt the team.  In 2002, when he failed to check a frickin checkbox, it directly caused the Bears to lose Dwayne Bates.  The Vikings were able to sign him to a poison pill contract (which were a hit back then) because they didn't have to give up a 3rd round pick.  Then, Angelo compounded matters by matching the poison pill contract, realized he really couldn't afford to pay Bates that much, and then cut him where he eventually signed with the Vikings.  A PR nightmare.  But more importantly, the checkbox fiasco indirectly caused the Bears to lose Roosevelt Colvin.  By failing to check the box on Warrick Holdman's contract, the Chiefs signed him to a big contract knowing they wouldn't have to give up a 3rd round pick.  At that time, Holdman and Colvin were looked at equally in the Bears organization and Angelo was forced to make a snap decision AT THAT TIME about which player he wanted to lock up for the future (and which player he would eventually lose a year later).  He chose Holdman at that time.  Colvin was gone a year later.  Had he simply CHECKED THE FRICKIN BOX, Holdman would have signed for the 1-year tender and Angelo would have had the entire 2002 season to evaluate which player he wanted to lock up long-term.  In 2002, Holdman proved himself to be a capable, if unspectacular, "piece of the puzzle" type player who unfortunately had already been locked up at a playmakers price.  He would be cut a year or two later.  Colvin, meanwhile, posted a second consecutive double-digit sack season and proved himself to be a playmaker more worthy of a long-term investment.............but, alas, it was too late.  Game, set, match.  Sure would have been nice to have had a linebacking trio of Urlacher, Colvin and Briggs for a few years, eh?

What really pissed me off about the whole deal was Angelo's lackadaisical attitude.  He basically came out and said "no big deal.  If we really want the players, we'll lock them up anyways".  in his first offseason, he insulted the fans intelligence.  Had he simply came out and apologized and admitted he made a rookie mistake, the fanbase would have had a lot more respect for him. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 14, 2012, 12:28:57 pm
Well, it's not like he was wearing a turbin or anything
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 15, 2012, 04:42:45 pm
Well, it's not like he was wearing a turbin or anything

 He might have been ...

 but hey guys we are starting over ...

 I say the slates been wiped clean.

 The pick up of OFFENSE & SPECIAL TEAMS ...

 speaks for itself.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 16, 2012, 06:05:22 pm
This guy might have missed his chance...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-reinstate-rb-unga-20120416,0,6905419.story

His odds of making the roster would have been a lot better last year.  But now...  with Michael Bush being signed and a new GM that didn't draft him...  he's really gonna have to make a splash to stick and like the article says, play lights-out on special teams. Hopefully whatever the personal issues were that sidelined him last season, they're behind him and he'll at least have the chance to give it an honest try.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 16, 2012, 06:31:06 pm
Well if he is cut its only a 7th round bust and not a 1st round bust, but it further amplifies the failures of Angelo
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 16, 2012, 06:35:18 pm
Yeah...  I could never quite figure out what Angelo was thinking when he drafted Unga.

Unga's gig with the Bears has just been a weird deal all around and I get the feeling we're never going to get the full story.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 16, 2012, 06:52:41 pm
I doubt we ever hear about the personal problems that we werent priveledged to know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 08:24:30 am
They must have been pretty serious if they cost him a whole season.

I hope he can pull it together and find a spot on the team cause he seems to have some talent... but so far he's just looked like another Angelo W-T-F move.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 17, 2012, 08:40:24 am
Just a guess, but if he didnt have the talent, Emery would have cut him on the spot. To even give him the opportunity to come to mini camp even surprises me. You definitely get out of football shape missing a year, some never recover. He will have to excel on ST, to get as far as July TC. But you know if he can block at his size and Forte pulls a holdout, he could become valuable
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 09:03:52 am
Yeah it doesn't seem like we've really got room for 4 RBs (Forte, Bush, Bell and Unga). We've already got a decent FB in Tyler Clutts, plus a TE/H-Back type in Kyle Adams. 

So Unga is really gonna have to prove himself worthy of a spot on this roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 17, 2012, 09:42:23 am

Bears have kept 4 HBs on the roster in the past when Garrett Wolfe would make the team primarily because of special teams skills.  If I recall Unga was quite the all purpose back at BYU - I'm interested in seeing what he can do.  But the odds are definitely against him from making this year's Bears team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 09:57:06 am
Some are speculating that the Unga move points further toward a draft day trade of Forte.

Of course Forte would have to be under some sort of contract before that could happen so I'm not buying that theory.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 17, 2012, 10:54:42 am
I think Unga is insurance Forte doesnt hold out the whole season
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 11:39:13 am
Kind of expensive insurance considering that 4th RB roster spot might come in handy at another position (OL or DL).

Honestly, a Forte holdout is worst case scenario but I think between Bush and Bell we could cover it if it came to pass. 

We also have at least one other RB listed on the current roster...  smaller guy out of Notre Dame IIRC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 17, 2012, 11:59:21 am
I forgot about him. Big backs that can play are not easy to find.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 17, 2012, 12:27:19 pm
Bears, NFL schedules to be revealed Tuesday

Brad Biggs, Tribune reporter
4:49 p.m. CDT, April 16, 2012


The NFL will unveil the 2012 regular-season schedule for the Chicago Bears and the rest of the league beginning at 6 p.m. Tuesday on the NFL Network.

The Bears have opened at Soldier Field in each of the previous two seasons after starting on the road for five consecutive years. Home opponents for the 2012 season are Seattle, St. Louis, Houston, Indianapolis, Carolina, Detroit, Green Bay and Minnesota. Road opponents are Arizona, San Francisco, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Dallas, Detroit, Green Bay and Minnesota.

The Bears potentially could play at Dallas on Thanksgiving Day. The team last played on Thanksgiving at Dallas in 2004. The Lions are expected to host an AFC team on Thanksgiving this year.

The Bears already have announced their preseason opponents. They host the Denver Broncos between Aug. 9-12 and the Washington Redskins between Aug. 16-19. They play at the New York Giants on Aug. 24 and close at the Cleveland Browns Aug. 30. Final dates for the preseason games will come soon, perhaps Tuesday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 12:47:43 pm
Guarantee that the Packers will come to Soldier Field while it's still nice, but we'll have to go up there in December or January.

We always get jacked on the schedule in that series.

Bears in Dallas on Turkey Day could be fun to watch though we usually don't play very well on Thanksgiving.

If I had to pick one game we should win but end up losing, it's that home game against the Panthers.  Especially if it's early in the season while we're still trying to pull our offense together.  That's going to be a critical game cause I see the Panthers being a legitimate playoff contender this season and we may need the tiebreaker.  The San Fran game will be really tough but the rest of that road slate other than Green Bay and maybe Detroit looks pretty manageable.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 17, 2012, 01:05:51 pm
When Cutler first came to the Bears didn't we start the season IN Green Bay?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 01:20:16 pm
When Cutler first came to the Bears didn't we start the season IN Green Bay?

If that was the game where the Packers had 17 penalties or something...  yeah I think that might have been earlier in the season.

That might have been the last time we beat them too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 17, 2012, 01:52:00 pm
No that was the game where he threw 4 INT's in his very first start as a Bear.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 02:35:12 pm
So what is Cutler's record against the Pack in the time he's been with us?  It can't be very good. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 17, 2012, 03:19:53 pm
The Bears potentially could play at Dallas on Thanksgiving Day. The team last played on Thanksgiving at Dallas in 2004.

I was there in 2004.  Dallas started Drew Henson (may have been the last game he ever played) and the Bears started Craig Krenzel.  Our only TD came from a pick six from RW McQuarters.
Dreadful game.

I might try to make it again this year - better start saving my money now for a visit to Jerry World.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 03:29:06 pm
Dallas started Drew Henson (may have been the last game he ever played) and the Bears started Craig Krenzel.  Our only TD came from a pick six from RW McQuarters.
Dreadful game.


LOL!  Drew Henson vs. Craig Krenzel.  No wonder it was an awful game.  I'm guessing a whole lot of turkey naps were taken during that one.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on April 17, 2012, 06:16:01 pm
Go Bears!

http://www.nfl.com/schedules/2012/REG/BEARS

I will be at Jacksonville game on Oct. 8th if anyone wants to meet up let me know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 17, 2012, 06:40:31 pm
I dont like the looks of that schedule. Looks like an NFL landmine.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 17, 2012, 07:05:16 pm
I hate the week 6 bye. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 17, 2012, 07:20:49 pm
I dont like playing the Packers 4 days after playing the Colts either. Unless we get a whole lot of talent infusion out of the draft 8-8 might be realistic.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 17, 2012, 07:22:38 pm
Looks like 10-6 to me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on April 17, 2012, 08:01:24 pm
First part of that schedule is brutal...4 day, 10 day and 6 days breaks between the first 4 games...not good for a gelling offense.  And what's the deal putting the Bear Packer game on NFL network?  Not every fan has access to that.  3 ESPN MNF games, a Sunday nighter and that Thursday game.  Hey NFL, what's wrong with Sundays?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 17, 2012, 08:14:25 pm
Bears play the colts then the Packers in Green bay four days later.  The Packers got the Niners then us 4 days later.  I kind of like that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 17, 2012, 08:28:10 pm
Maybe the nfl smells something good with the Bear.  Just got called  (wait for it)...........America's team by Trey while talking to Brandon Marshall ! That Bear bandwagon with the new turbos and lube job just got started up methinks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 17, 2012, 08:49:27 pm
Bears play the colts then the Packers in Green bay four days later.  The Packers got the Niners then us 4 days later.  I kind of like that.

I like the fact we play the Pack there in Sept instead of January. Trouble is it usually tkes us about 4 games to get in sync and start winning. Playing them early probably means a loss.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 17, 2012, 09:05:34 pm
That was with Martz who would not run the ball the first few games until Lovie made him.

I think the Bears come right out of the gates firing on all cylinders.  The Colts suck ass and the Bears will stomp them.  The Packers may beat the Niners but the Niners are going to be very physical with them.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 17, 2012, 09:20:33 pm
We shall see said the blind man. Some things never change
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 17, 2012, 10:56:23 pm
Our offense always starts out slow even going back to the Ron Turner days. If we're actually clicking from Day One I'll be shocked. I expect the OL to struggle at least the first 2-3 games while they reacclimate to having Carimi and Chris Williams hack in the lineup. I also expect Cutler to need a couple of games to get his throwing mojo back. Hopefully he'll only be tossing INCs and not INTs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on April 18, 2012, 07:25:51 am
Concerned the Bears defense will sit back and not pressure Andrew Luck in the first game.  Lovie may think they can beat the Colts with his base D and roll out the new wrinkles in Green Bay...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 18, 2012, 07:36:43 am
Well unless they draft some DLine players they will be shorthanded on defense anyways
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 07:59:47 am
Didn't we open the season against the Colts not too many years ago?

IIRC it was a Sunday night game and we upset the Colts and looked pretty good doing it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on April 18, 2012, 08:09:53 am
Wow, already some handwringing about the Colt's game?  We should roll the Colts as long as we don't suffer any major injuries in the preseason.  And yes, we beat the Colts on opening Monday night a few years ago.  Forte had a long TD run in that game and I was surprised at his speed.  I always thought he would be an Anthony Thomas type caught from behind, but he has shown that once he gets a step he is rarely caught from behind.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 18, 2012, 08:16:34 am
That was the first game of the Bob Babich "Mug" look by the defense if I remember right.
It gave Manning a fit but teams had figured it out by like week 2 and Babich never adjusted.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 08:27:22 am
Looking at our schedule, my impression is that we've had worse.

- Yeah the two games in 5 days right out of the gate sucks, but maybe this is what it will take for Lovie to up the intensity in training camp.  Plain and simple, if our guys aren't in game shape coming out of training camp we are gonna have a lot of guys injured before we even get to the 3rd game. That should be all the motivation Lovie & Co. need to run a tight ship at training camp and really get the offensive and defensive schemes nailed down.

- 3 games out of the last four on the road, again, not ideal but those games are at Minny, Detroit and Arizona and for once the cold-weather game against the Pack is in our house, not theirs. In other words, weather will not be a factor in the late-season road games and in fact if our offense is healthy and in sync at that point of the season we could really make some hay and finish out the season with some nice momentum which carries into (hopefully) the postseason.  And considering we would likely have at least one playoff on the road, it would be good to be in a traveling frame of mind as the season winds down.

Game by Game:

Sunday Sept 9 - Colts W (1-0):  Luck or no Luck, home game against last year's worst team should give us some breathing room if the boys aren't quite up to speed yet.

Thursday Sept 13 - @ Packers L (1-1):  Schedule makers gift-wrap a win for the Pack by putting Bears on the road on an uber-short week.

Sunday Sept 23 - Rams W (2-1):  Bears back on track with plenty of rest and a beatable team at home.

Sunday Sept 30 (SNF) - @ Cowboys W (3-1):  Lovie goes home to Texas and notches a win.

Sunday Oct 7 - @ Jags W (4-1):  Jags are better than last year but Bears still prevail.

Sunday Oct 22 - Lions L (4-2):  Bears come out flat off of bye week and drop a critical division game at home.

Sunday Oct 29 - Panthers L (4-3):  Playoff-caliber Panthers team upsets Bears at Soldiers.

Sunday Nov 4 - @ Titans W (5-3):  Bears go back on the road and get off the schneid.

Sunday Nov 11 (SNF) - Texans W (6-3):  Bears win back some respect after beating quality opponent in primetime.

Monday Nov 19 (MNF) - @ Niners L (6-4):  Niners' superior talent, coaching and a long West Coast road trip work against Bears in the loss.

Sunday Nov 25 - Vikings W (7-4):  Bears finally get an easier opponent and some breathing room.

Sunday Dec 2 - Seahawks W (8-4):  Seattle puts a scare in the home crowd but Bears pull out a win to keep their playoff prospects rosy.

Sunday Dec 9 - @ Vikings W (9-4):  A closer contest than the first Vikings game but Bears still come out on top.

Sunday Dec 16 - Packers L (9-5):  Bears go 0-2 to Pack on the season and 0 for the last 6 matchups.

Sunday Dec 23 - @ Cardinals W (10-5):  Bears pull out must-win game to keep playoff hopes alive.

Sunday Dec 30 - @ Lions W (11-5):  2nd consecutive must-win road game goes in Bears' favor again and nets them a wildcard berth.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 18, 2012, 09:04:00 am
I dont see a win over the Texans, and I dont hold the same confidence level against the Jags. Also I dont like a W over the Lionesses on the road. It looks like 8-8 to me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 09:30:40 am
11-5 does probably seem overly optimistic but here are my assumptions:

1) Cutler has no lingering negative effects from his thumb injury, quickly re-establishes rapport with Marshall, gets adequate protection and survives the entire season  (i.e., the OL improves).

2) Our defensive core stays healthy, a couple of our younger defenders step it up a notch and our impact players on that unit (Peppers, Urlacher, Briggs, Tillman) don't flag down the stretch.

3) STs are up to their usual high standards.

4) We have a solid draft, i.e., at least two Day One starters and a couple of others who make solid contributions as rookies.

5) No games dropped due to in-game mismanagement by Lovie  (this is probably the boldest assumption to make of any of them).

You can subtract at least one win from my 11-5 prediction for each of the above that DON'T happen.  At times last year this looked like a 6-10 team and other times it looked like a 12-4 team so I'm betting towards the positive.  Particularly on the offense...  we lost 5 starters for multiple games last year (Cutler, C. Williams, Carimi, Bennett and Forte), and unless this team truly is cursed I don't see that happening again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 18, 2012, 09:37:54 am
Can we subtract a game because the Bears dont come out with both the offense and defense in full sync at the beginning of the season?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 09:46:07 am
Can we subtract a game because the Bears dont come out with both the offense and defense in full sync at the beginning of the season?

Unfortunately that describes the Bears during most of Lovie's time as HC.  One unit looks good and the other looks like crap and then the next game it's the exact opposite. 

If we come out with our usual slow start -- on either side of the ball -- that Thursday night road game in Lambeau is gonna be a disaster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 18, 2012, 10:08:54 am
Yes indeed!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 18, 2012, 10:38:52 am
y'all are worried about a Jaguars team that wanted Tebow to be their QB?
They don't worry me a whole lot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 10:39:04 am
Is there really any difference playing Green Bay in Green Bay in December as opposed to playing them in Chicago?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 10:41:43 am
Is there really any difference playing Green Bay in Green Bay in December as opposed to playing them in Chicago?

Yes.  Notwithstanding the inherent advantage of the home crowd and not having to travel, a frozen field at Lambeau is still a reasonably fast track.  A frozen field at Soldiers is virtually unplayable.  Advantage Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 10:44:50 am
As I say every year screw the schedule!  Bears have the talent as long as they stay healthy to beat any of those teams.  I'm sure they won't be favored against GB or at San Francisco but those won't be gimme games for them.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 10:48:42 am
Yes.  Notwithstanding the inherent advantage of the home crowd and not having to travel, a frozen field at Lambeau is still a reasonably fast track.  A frozen field at Soldiers is virtually unplayable.  Advantage Bears.

I thought Lambeau field had heating elements beneath it.   

Both teams have to play on any frozen field although the Bears familiarity with their crappy field late in the season may provide a slight advantage.  Maybe more of an advantage against a dome team like the Lions or Vikings.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 10:50:11 am
It's the Lovie Bears.  Which means they could just as easily sweep Green Bay and beat the Niners on the road...  and then drop games against the Jags, Cardinals and Rams.  That been one of my biggest gripes throughout the Lovie regime, you just never know what Bears team is gonna show up from week to week.

But I think 10 or 11 wins is reasonable to hope for...  irregardless of who those wins come against... if all the assumptions I listed previously hold. 

Re late season games at Soliders, that crappy field tends to penalize the team with the superior skill talent while helping the team with the better D and running game.  Specifically against the Packers (but other teams as well), that would tend to favor the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 10:56:50 am
Assuming J'Marcus Webb is our LT - here's the games he'll be circling on the schedule.

Sunday Sept 30 (SNF) - @ Cowboys   DeMarcus Ware on field turf.

Sunday Dec 2 - Seahawks   Webb struggled last year against the Seahawks' Chris Clemons - both games at Soldier.

Sunday Dec 9 - @ Vikings W (9-4):  Jared Allen in a dome.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 10:59:40 am
That been one of my biggest gripes throughout the Lovie regime, you just never know what Bears team is gonna show up from week to week.

Giants said the same thing while the Packers had very consistent performances week to week.

The Bears will have their ups and downs during the season but if they can be lucky and limit the injuries, make the playoffs, who knows what could happen?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 18, 2012, 11:19:25 am
18-0 - we don't have to play the mighty Tebows
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 18, 2012, 11:22:16 am
Free agent linebacker Rocky McIntosh is scheduled to visit the Chicago Bears this week according to Jeff Dickerson of ESPNChicago.com.

McIntosh started 69 games for the Redskins over six seasons before losing his job in November last year. He could back up on the weakside and in the middle with the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 12:03:08 pm
IIRC McIntosh doesn't suck.  He could be a quality depth pickup if he fits our scheme and the price is right.

Certainly has to be more durable than Tinoisamoa was.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 12:06:18 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/18/chilo-rachal-signs-with-bears/

Based on the comments to this article, this guy is nothing to get excited about.  Certainly doesn't sound like an upgrade over anyone we already have.

Hope he's not Phil Emery's version of Frank OMG.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 18, 2012, 12:47:47 pm
Wow folks are worried about the season BEFORE the Bears even had a draft pick.  Hell even saw where folks are bending over for the Lions once again.

Not surprised.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 01:45:19 pm
I don't think it's being pessimistic to expect a split with the Lions.  They kicked our asses in the first game, and then we returned the favor in the rematch. 

Both teams are trying hard to improve and likely will, so I don't see a reason to expect a much different outcome this year.  For two teams that are pretty evenly matched talent-wise, in the same division, I think a split is very logical to assume.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 18, 2012, 01:55:35 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/18/chilo-rachal-signs-with-bears/

Based on the comments to this article, this guy is nothing to get excited about.  Certainly doesn't sound like an upgrade over anyone we already have.

Hope he's not Phil Emery's version of Frank OMG.


You really learn to appreciate how important the “team” aspect of football is because when Rachal is in the game everything just falls apart. It’s amazing how bad things can go when just one guy can’t do their job at anything close to a satisfactory level. That old saying about needing all 11 guys on the same page to have a good play is absolutely true and Rachal is rarely on the same page.

The real headline for this article should be:
 Frank Omiyale changes name, sneaks back onto the Bears roster.



Yeah the comments are all pretty bad.  People hate him as much as we all hated Frank OMG. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 02:02:56 pm

At first glance it just looks like an opportunity to upgrade depth.

But with all these guards you really wonder if Chris Williams will be moving to compete for a tackle job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 18, 2012, 02:11:14 pm
Or if Spencer is going to compete with Garza for C. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 02:15:33 pm
Yup.  My assumption has been that C. Williams would remain at LG, and Lance Louis and Chris Spencer would fight it out at RG with the loser going to the bench.

Can't say I'm seeing the sense in the Rachal signing.  By last count we had like 8 interior O-Linemen on the roster already (including the guys who ended last season on the practice squad).

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 02:17:15 pm
Or if Spencer is going to compete with Garza for C.

I felt like Spencer should have been playing C and Garza G all along.  Those are their natural positions.  But Spencer had a broken hand last year so that pretty much took him out of the mix at C.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 18, 2012, 02:24:38 pm
At first glance it just looks like an opportunity to upgrade depth.

But with all these guards you really wonder if Chris Williams will be moving to compete for a tackle job.

Thats what Pompei said months ago, to expect Chris williams to move to LT. I thought at the time he was smoking some wacky weed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 02:33:02 pm
I felt like Spencer should have been playing C and Garza G all along.

I'm fine with Garza at center - it could extend his career a few years.  And BTW he was a pro bowl alternate at the position so he must be doing alright.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 02:35:52 pm
Rachal is a big dude...  6'5, 325 lbs.  Just hasn't played up to his size, or his 2nd round draft status.

With that kind of bulk though he could at least be an asset as a 3rd OT on "heavy" packages for short yardage, I'd think.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 02:37:26 pm
Thats what Pompei said months ago, to expect Chris williams to move to LT. I thought at the time he was smoking some wacky weed.

It could happen but I still think I'd like to see CWilliams stay put at LG - he seemed to be doing alright. 

After seeing a stat that had the Bears one of the worst teams running the ball between the tackles, maybe Emery is ready to shake things up a bit on the O-line - you just don't know.  I guess we'll have to wait until next week to find out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 02:47:05 pm
After seeing a stat that had the Bears one of the worst teams running the ball between the tackles, maybe Emery is ready to shake things up a bit on the O-line - you just don't know.

Could be...  but if better interior run blocking comes at the expense of pass protection, I would seriously question that approach.

Rachal is reported to be a great run blocker but a disaster on passing downs.  That's not exactly what our air game needs.

Tice is a pretty good OL coach but he's already got his hands full with Webb and one pet project at a time on the OL is plenty, IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 18, 2012, 03:11:19 pm
It could happen but I still think I'd like to see CWilliams stay put at LG - he seemed to be doing alright. 


Yep, that is where he was least sucky.  LOL  Maybe the plan is to launch Garza or Spencer.  Who knows.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 03:15:50 pm
Well, Chris Spencer was an Angelo/Ruskell pickup so if Emery is looking to continue the purge and bring in his own guys, I'd say Spencer is the guy with the most to worry about.

But if Rachal is as bad as the comments on that article indicate, I don't see any way he bumps off Spencer.  In fact, he may not make it through training camp.  His practice squad eligibility is long gone. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 18, 2012, 03:30:36 pm
I thought Spencer did pretty well last year, especially with a broken hand/arm.
I imagine Tice is going to try to figure out who his best 5 guys are and try to get them on the field.

I think Louis is best at RG, put him there and leave him alone.
The rest of the spots are kind of wide open in my mind.
Garza did pretty well last year but Spencer did pretty good at RG. Could Spencer be an upgrade at C? He is 3 years younger.
With our OL nothing would really surprise me though I hope they pick 5 early and stick with them.
I think the OL has as much to do with chemistry as talent more than any other area of the field.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 03:43:04 pm
Could Spencer be an upgrade at C? He is 3 years younger.

At some point they are going to have to phase Garza out, and the new guy in.  I saw nothing last year that makes me think Garza can't get it done at C for at least this year yet. In fact, provided he stays healthy, he's the O-Lineman out of anyone currently on the roster that I worry about least.  Now, when you get to 2013 then a decision will likely have to be made and IIRC that's the final year of Garza's contract anyway.

What you don't want is a repeat of the Kreutz situation where you keep a guy there a year (or two) too long with no viable replacement in the pipeline.  I think Emery understands that whereas Angelo didn't.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 18, 2012, 03:45:03 pm
Agreed, Garza is the least concerning OL. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 18, 2012, 03:50:23 pm
Agreed, Garza is the least concerning OL. 

It's what happens if Garza goes down that we need to be concerned about.  #1 for his blocking and #2 cause he makes all the line calls.

IIRC Garza was the only starter on our OL who played all 16 games last season but that's not something we should be counting on again this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 18, 2012, 04:01:04 pm

Garza:

Season    Teams                G     GS
2011    Chicago Bears    16    16
2010    Chicago Bears    14    14
2009    Chicago Bears    16    16
2008    Chicago Bears    16    16
2007    Chicago Bears    16    16
2006    Chicago Bears    16    16
2005    Chicago Bears    16    7
2004    Falcons        16    15
2003    Falcons        14    8
2002    Falcons        6    4
2001     Falcons       16    4
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 19, 2012, 11:24:47 am
Man...  Emery keeping at it in FA:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/bears-sign-geno-hayes/

Hayes is a tiny (6'1 226) but active OLB who the Bucs drafted to replace Derrick Brooks.  Could challenge Roach to start or at worst, provide some solid depth and maybe STs. Just hope all this FA business isn't taking our eye off the ball for the draft though.

Irregardless of how the draft turns out, I think it's already apparent that when the Bears open training camp there is going to be more talent on the practice field this year than there has been for a long time.   One of my biggest gripes has been that since the Bears depth is so bad, our starters have been able to slack off in practice and then when they face legitimate NFL-caliber competition in games they can't keep up. Even before the draft we are well on our way to being legitimately two-deep at many positions.  Emery is raising the bar from the bottom of the roster to the top and that should only make for better competition in practice and better performances on game day.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 19, 2012, 11:56:52 am
Wiki updated already?

Say What?

Hayes was allegedly stabbed in the back of the head with a pair of scissors by his 19 year old girlfriend on March 9, 2009
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 19, 2012, 11:57:29 am
He was very good at FSU
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 19, 2012, 12:01:01 pm
Hayes was allegedly stabbed in the back of the head with a pair of scissors by his 19 year old girlfriend on March 9, 2009

Guess he shoulda kept his helmet on...

Unfortunately, by the time you eliminate all the NFL players who are wack-jobs, and then eliminate all the NFL players whose wives, GFs or baby mommas are wack-jobs...  you don't have many guys left to pick from.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 19, 2012, 12:03:04 pm
Maybe she was trimmin' his doo - and slippped or something
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 19, 2012, 12:14:13 pm
But that said 2009 and this is 2012. She probably had to jump up to cut his hair and missed
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 19, 2012, 12:45:23 pm
How can you get a helmet to fit with a pair of scissors sticking out the back of your head?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 19, 2012, 04:14:39 pm
With the Hayes signing we're pretty well stacked-up at LB.  It would surprise me to see us drafting any LBs next weekend unless it's the 5th round or later.  I'm not sure who the backup to Urlacher is at this point but both outside positions appear to be well covered.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 19, 2012, 06:20:18 pm
I think DeChico is Urlacker's backup
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 19, 2012, 06:24:23 pm
The only way I see us taking a LB early is if  Kuechly is available in the first.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 19, 2012, 08:23:55 pm
I would doubt it even then
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on April 19, 2012, 09:43:57 pm
All of this FA activity makes me think TRADE UP.  Why would we bring in all these new bodies if we are about to draft 7 more, because we are thinking trade up and know that there will only be 3 or 4 new rookies. 

Anyone else thinking this way??
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 19, 2012, 09:57:34 pm
Kuechly would be a really dumb pick for the Bears. He won't last till 19 though anyway.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on April 19, 2012, 10:10:17 pm
I don't see these signings having any effect on the draft at all.

They look like bottom of the roster guys to compete as reserves in training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 19, 2012, 11:37:00 pm
depth
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on April 20, 2012, 06:37:28 am
Gino Hayes started 42 games over the last 3 seasons for the Bucs.  Pro bowl, no?  But very solid addition
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 20, 2012, 08:58:15 am
All of this FA activity makes me think TRADE UP.  Why would we bring in all these new bodies if we are about to draft 7 more, because we are thinking trade up and know that there will only be 3 or 4 new rookies.

Anyone else thinking this way??


Given the Bears recent FA signings I can see why you think that way.  But despite the FA moves the Bears still have depth issues - 3rd DE? 4th safety?  4th DT?  3rd OT?   #2 WR?  plus you'd like to get younger at CB.

When you trade up, in the high rounds, you are not talking about giving up 6th and 7th round choices that have less than a 50/50 chance of making your team.  You are talking about 3rd and 4th rounders which are players that could become your 3rd DE, 4th DT, 4th safety, etc. etc.

Now having said all that the Bears still could trade up in round 1 or maybe round 2 if there's a player that has caught there eye, but I don't think they will do it simply because they feel they already have enough quality players on the roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 20, 2012, 09:02:23 am
I think DeChico is Urlacker's backup

At first I'd have to say Roach, but when Urlacher was out Roach had first dibs on the job and was eventually replaced by Hillenmayer.  Briggs could play MLB and Geno Hayes would take Briggs spot.  But then you'd have backups at 2 positions instead of 1.

Yeah, maybe DeCicco is the backup.  At 6-4 230 he could stand to put on a few more lbs though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 20, 2012, 09:11:30 am
That ST ace we signed from the Niners is listed as a LB but i don't know if he's any good at it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on April 20, 2012, 09:20:21 am
I was actually thinking a trade down may be coming. When a team signs as many players as we have, they're obviously thinking we NEED more players. And if we can acquire more by trading down, we may actually get more capable play-makers that way. Yea we'll miss out on a top reciever, etc but we may stock up in many areas instead of only one. We'll see....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 20, 2012, 09:25:51 am
That ST ace we signed from the Niners is listed as a LB but i don't know if he's any good at it.

As I recall he had a very limited number of snaps on defense.  I saw the Shaw kid we cut a few seasons ago was available, but the Bears preferred Costanzo.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 20, 2012, 10:30:08 am
I wonder how many teams signed as many FA as the Bears did. The amount speaks volumes about how Emery thought about the talent level on the roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 20, 2012, 02:04:31 pm
PLEASE NO TRADE DOWNS!!!  Get the value at #19 or trade UP for a change.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on April 20, 2012, 07:57:01 pm
A trade down may be in order if Tanneyhill slides...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: JeffH on April 20, 2012, 08:09:21 pm
Tannehill is awful.  Cubs-level bad.  Stay away.  Far, far away.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 20, 2012, 09:01:12 pm
I dont think he was talking about the Bears drafting Tannehill, its been said Cleveland wants him and might move up from 22 to 19 to take him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on April 21, 2012, 05:56:43 am
Exactly.  If we are sitting at 19, and a few of the players we are interested in are still on the board, we may slide.  But if we really like a certain player at this pick, I would prefer we stay at 19.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 21, 2012, 08:10:52 am
Yes, especially if we felt somebody was going to jump in front of and take the player we've targeted. I sure wouldnt drop down if Floyd were on the board. What surprised me was that Brockers was still on the board. I think he is a stud
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 21, 2012, 09:54:38 am
I think we should stay put and see if we can get lucky and have to choose from several players we like.  Maybe Floyd falls into our laps, kind of like Carimi did last year.  Or some other stud.  Who knows.  And with Angelo NOT making the picks, I have optomism. ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 21, 2012, 10:40:54 am
This is the last week before the draft. We've already seen the Adams pot smoking exposed. I expect to see more bad information to be leaked before the draft on some other player, to diminish that players value/draft position. Its dirty tricks as usual.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 21, 2012, 03:45:28 pm
If we're really intent on landing a pass rushing stud, I would be very leery about trading down too far.  It seems like a lot of teams not too far below us in the draft may be looking for pass rush as well (including both the Packers and Lions if they should lose Avril)... and if we drop down too far and a run of DEs starts right ahead of us we could be screwed.

This is a draft where I'd feel better about staying at 19 and (even if I felt we reached on a guy by a few spots), then trading down and watching 2 or 3 guys go to other teams who might really have been able to help us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 21, 2012, 05:16:33 pm
I am not sold on the DEs I see in the draft, especially that kid from USC. I think most are 3/4 LBs. I'd much rather see us take a DT like Brockers who can play anywhere on the line
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on April 21, 2012, 08:33:34 pm
It's a real plus if you can find that DEr who can move to DT to rush from the DT position in a passing situation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 22, 2012, 11:22:27 am
A trade down may be in order if Tanneyhill slides...

Oh God PLEASE NO TRADE DOWNS!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on April 23, 2012, 07:53:52 am
Earl Bennett is not a professional singer
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 23, 2012, 10:47:23 am
Stud...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/23/brian-dawkins-retires-from-nfl/

If all those draft picks Angelo threw at the S position had netted us a player like this, Urlacher might be sporting a couple of SuperBowl rings by now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 23, 2012, 12:30:48 pm
Didn't Angie draft Mike Brown?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 23, 2012, 12:42:04 pm
Mike Brown was drafted by Angelo's predecessor, Mark Hatley.  Urlacher was our 1st round pick that year, and Brown was our 2nd rounder.

I think that Mike Brown, had he been able to stay healthy, may have become as good a player as Brian Dawkins was. At least while he was at his peak with the Bears he sure appeared to be a HOF'er in the making. Unfortunately his body just couldn't hold up.

Not saying that Hatley was that much better than Angelo (Hatley being the genius who spent 1st round picks on not only Curtis Enis, but David Terrell and Cade McNown)... but none of the safeties the Jer drafted even came close to Mike Brown in quality.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 23, 2012, 12:43:07 pm
I still contend we'd beaten the Colts in the SB if he and Tommie Harris were healthy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 23, 2012, 12:53:51 pm
If those two guys had been 100% on D...  and if Good Rex had shown up...  yeah I think we would have a shot at the win.  Or certainly, at least not embarrassed ourselves like we wound up doing.  We would have been like the Ravens the year they won the SuperBowl...  world-class D and decent run game carrying a QB and WRs who had no business being there. 

Oh well.  That seems like a long time ago already.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on April 23, 2012, 01:04:20 pm
You didn't like Berrian, Muhammed, and Olsen in our receiving corp?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 23, 2012, 01:10:23 pm
You didn't like Berrian, Muhammed, and Olsen in our receiving corp?

Not really.  But Grossman didn't make it easy for them either.

What really pi**es me off is, our OL that year was still pretty good, but the skill positions weren't happening.  Now it's just the opposite. That's just bad all-around GM'ing as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 23, 2012, 02:19:00 pm
Speaking of the bad gm, where is he? No press releases?  In seclusion on an island he bought with Bear money while using his dart-board technique in the draft?  Fare thee well Jer, fare thee well, you will not be missed.  At all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 23, 2012, 02:45:25 pm
Actually the best thing that could happen to Angelo would be to catch on with the Pack/Lions/Vikes.  It would speed up our improvement quite a bit.  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 23, 2012, 02:45:51 pm
You didn't like Berrian, Muhammed, and Olsen in our receiving corp?

Olsen was drafted after the SB = Des Clark was our TE.  And we win the game with Mike Brown and Tommie Harris in the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 23, 2012, 02:50:11 pm
And we win the game with Mike Brown and Tommie Harris in the game.

The Lovie Bears -- who supposedly were so "disciplined" -- turned the ball over 5 times in that SuperBowl. 3 fumbles (and a 4th we recovered), and 2 INTs (one going back for 6). And our "franchise" RB that we spent a Top 5 pick on lasted about 3 or 4 carries before fumbling and missing the rest of the game hurt. 

Our offense was dreadful the entire game.  Not sure if even having Tommie and Mike Brown could have helped us overcome that. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 23, 2012, 03:56:02 pm
Ah yes. Cedric. If that pick doesn't make you grind you teeth in rage nothing will.  I'm sure there are in the current generation, players that came out of Texas to be good nfl players, but like most Penn state people, not so much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on April 23, 2012, 06:56:55 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8762
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 23, 2012, 07:07:17 pm

 THURSDAY APRIL 26th.

 It's gonna hit the fan people.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 23, 2012, 07:29:08 pm
Funny thing about CedBen, he had over 1000 yards the last three years.  Too bad he didnt have his head out of his rear when he was with us. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 23, 2012, 07:33:50 pm
Funny thing about CedBen, he had over 1000 yards the last three years.  Too bad he didnt have his head out of his rear when he was with us. 

 Ahhh... fuucking Curtis Enis.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 23, 2012, 07:39:48 pm
He still doesnt have his head out of his rear. Bungles dont want him back.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 23, 2012, 07:44:10 pm
He still doesnt have his head out of his rear. Bungles dont want him back.

 Also try being a fan of a team that signed J'marcus Russell.

 Pain? Try pain X2.  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 23, 2012, 09:16:24 pm
Purple Drank, cocktail of choice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 23, 2012, 10:14:11 pm
As a high 2nd round pick Rachal is considered a tremendous bust by Niners fans. He was about as popular in San Fran as Omiyale was in Chicago, and tor the same reasons.

Just sayin, don't expect a lot out of this guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on April 24, 2012, 07:51:48 am
agree,  there's just hope and chance Tice can do something with him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 08:20:05 am
A lot of people thought Chris Spencer was a bust for the Seahawks and he seemed to do pretty well for us last year.  OTOH Omiyale was a total fail even under Tice's teaching. So who knows? 

Rachal is one of the biggest OGs the Bears have ever had (6'5, 323) so I hope we can find a way to tap into those measurables. If nothing else maybe he'll push the other interior OL we already have a bit, and give our D-Line some practice going against OGs who are closer to the size of today's average OGs than our guys are. . 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 08:35:21 am
The NFL has expanded the preseason roster limit from 80 to 90.  Teams will be able to carry 90 players through the 3rd preseason game.

I don't have a link but PFT reported this yesterday.

I think this is great for the Bears as it will give us more opportunities to bring in UDFAs to increase the level of competition in training camp and theoretically at least, improve our odds of finding some sleepers.  It would be great if Emery could unearth a solid contributor or two outside of the draft as well as killing it this weekend.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 24, 2012, 09:39:56 am

With all these guards on the roster now I think its safe to say we will not draft DeCastro...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 09:49:54 am
With all these guards on the roster now I think its safe to say we will not draft DeCastro...

I feel the same way about CB, yet some mocks still have us taking Gilmore.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 24, 2012, 10:30:46 am
I feel the same way about CB, yet some mocks still have us taking Gilmore.

The Bears did not upgrade the CB in position in free agency - they pretty much just filled in roster sports with the departures of Graham and Zack Bowman.  If the Bears draft a CB high it would be to beat out Jennings and/or provide a successor to Tillman. 

Now do they need to do that in the first round?  Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised if the draft a bigger cover 2 type corner later in the draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 10:36:40 am
The Bears did not upgrade the CB in position in free agency

The Bears did not upgrade OG in FA either.  They replaced Omiyale with Rachal but if Rachal is bad as Niners fans say, that was basically a lateral move, not an upgrade.

The bigger corner they draft later could be that guy out of Montana.  Although the Heyward guy out of Vandy has also been linked to the Bears, but he's not exactly big.

Bottom line is, based on the moves I've seen so far I have no reason to believe Emery is gonna screw up this draft.  He clearly has much more on the ball than Angelo ever did and I'm sure he's had the Bears scouts working double-time to help him hit it out of the park on his first draft as a real GM.  But some picks would definitely trigger more skepticism in me than others.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 24, 2012, 10:49:15 am
I think Rachal was a good run blocker but bad at pass protection.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 11:00:26 am
I think Rachal was a good run blocker but bad at pass protection.

Which makes it curious that we signed him.  Run blocking is the one thing last year's OL actually did pretty well most of the time.

It's keeping guys out of Cutler's face where we need the help.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 24, 2012, 11:31:26 am
Cuttler needs more time to deliver the ball
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 24, 2012, 12:02:46 pm
#1716/#1717- Ding! Keep the kid standing and let him have a full 2 seconds for once .
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 12:19:56 pm
Here's a stud pass rusher that's not a happy camper:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/24/cameron-wake-not-at-dolphins-minicamp/

Emery should offer the Fins our 2nd round pick and bring this guy to Chicago.  We already know Miami can be talked out of their stud players.   ;)  He's already 30 so you're talking a 3-year deal max but he's better than any edge rusher we could draft in the 2nd.

Brockers in the 1st, OL in the 3rd and CB in the 4th and we're ready to take back the crown. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 24, 2012, 12:43:17 pm
I would be cautious about giving up picks for a 30yo player.
We need to get younger on D, not older.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 12:50:45 pm
I see your point Nav, but my thinking with Wake is, we use him as a bridge solution till Brockers has developed into a better pass rusher.

Everyone understands that in the next 2-3 years the window is gonna close on this entire defense.  Urlacher, Peppers, Tillman, possibly Briggs will all be gone, and Lovie and Marinelli too if they haven't exited before then.  So this is the year you bring in a guy like a Wake who's in that same age group to try and give this D one last push over the top before they all go into decline.

If it works out, great and if not you dump all the older guys (including Wake) and start over...  with guys like Paea and Brockers as your new core along with some good younger back-7 guys you've been able to draft and develop in the interim.

The downside of course being that we would have basically mortgaged a 2nd round pick for a 2 or 3-year quick fix whereas that pick could have been used for someone who would just be coming into his prime at that point.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 24, 2012, 01:08:35 pm
I think the Fins are a 3/4 team. I am not sure he is a fit with the Bears
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 24, 2012, 01:13:49 pm
He is listed as a 6'3 250 lb LB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 01:16:15 pm
Well yeah but Nick Perry and the Boise State kid are being associated with the Bears in the draft and those are 3-4 OLB types and so is the guy from West Virginia and even Mercilus according to some scouts.

So maybe the mock drafters know something about LoviNelli's defensive plans for 2012 that the rest of us don't... otherwise why would all these 3-4 guys be getting mocked to the Bears?  Not saying Lovie is gonna switch to a 3-4 per se this year but maybe some sort of adaptation to a "hybrid" front is in the works?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 24, 2012, 02:14:23 pm
I think Marinelli has used some LB types (shorter,quick,strong) as DE's in the past with some success.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 24, 2012, 02:23:24 pm
Alex Brown was 6-3 260 and played DE for Lovie for years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 02:41:06 pm
The most successful guy in that OLB/DE tweener role for the Bears in recent memory was Roosevelt Colvin.

That's been a few years ago by now though... pre-Marinelli.

I just have a problem with the idea of spending a Top 20 pick on a player who may not even be on the field for more than half the defensive plays.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 24, 2012, 04:46:22 pm

First of all, I do not send a 2nd rounder for a 30 year old 3-4 OLB.

Nick Perry is 270 lbs - big enough to play DE, like he did at USC, full time not part time.  He's not a good value at 19 but in a trade down to the mid or late 20s he might be.

I don't know that much about the Boise St kid, just recall he was extremely fast.  But if he can't play DE full time I wouldn't draft him at 19 or in a first round trade down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 24, 2012, 04:56:09 pm
Nick Perry is 270 lbs - big enough to play DE, like he did at USC, full time not part time.  He's not a good value at 19 but in a trade down to the mid or late 20s he might be.

If you do that, pick up the extra 3rd for the tradedown, trade that 3rd and our 2nd for a high 2nd then maybe it turns out something like:

1st - Perry (DE)
2nd - Harrison Smith (S)  (although the Patriots are rumored to be hot for him and they have two picks at the bottom of the 1st round)

As compared to staying at 19 and doing something like:

1st - Brockers (DT)
2nd - Best available DE  (that kid out of Marshall, maybe)

In the first scenario you're shoring up the front end and the back end of the D, while in the 2nd you're going balls-out to bolster the DL.  Really hard to say which one of those combinations would have a more immediate and significant impact on our pass defense, but that's what Emery is being paid to do.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 24, 2012, 06:10:09 pm
Who is to say that Brockers couldnt be available at 19 as well as 22 (I believe Cleveland has that one)? I certainly believe he could
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 25, 2012, 04:18:37 pm
Good grief:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/eagles-got-a-seventh-round-pick-for-asante-samuel/

Asante Samuel for a 7th round draft pick?  Emery missed the boat on that opportunity.  Wow.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 25, 2012, 05:08:35 pm
Does that mean we would likely only get a 7th for Hester?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 25, 2012, 07:03:58 pm

 Gentlemen,

 It's a new age ... I dont know what the age is ... but goddammit one thing is for motherfuucking sure,

 this aint Poppa Bears CHICAGO BEARS anymore.

 With Emery we may have just stepped into the future.

 The Marshall signing was a blow away.

 In fact the whole trail our BEARS are on ... latley ... is somthing ... well,

 we just never pulled any shiit like this off before.

 So I dont know where we are going to in the draft ... but goddammit I can hope.  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on April 25, 2012, 09:45:16 pm
FWIW: KFFL reports the Bear signed Bell for one year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 25, 2012, 09:54:25 pm
CSN said he signed his tender since he didnt get any RFA bites
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 25, 2012, 11:50:06 pm
FWIW: KFFL reports the Bear signed Bell for one year.

 
CSN said he signed his tender since he didnt get any RFA bites

 Looks like we are set at RB.  :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on April 26, 2012, 05:38:18 am
Good grief:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/eagles-got-a-seventh-round-pick-for-asante-samuel/

Asante Samuel for a 7th round draft pick?  Emery missed the boat on that opportunity.  Wow.

I thought he was worth a sniff also.  But is he worth 18 million for 3 years type of sniff??  What does that do to the rest of the defense in terms of salary commitment? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 26, 2012, 07:52:05 am
The other thing with Samuel, as I thought about it more...  he's really not a fit for our D.

He's a ballhawk (which we could sorely use), but he's a big-time liability as a tackler and you've got to be able and willing to tackle to play in Lovie's scheme.

I don't think Emery is the kind of guy that's gonna just throw draft picks at veterans willy nilly, even when its a big name at a position of need as with Samuel. Yeah, he did that with Brandon Marshall but that was an exceptional opportunity that literally dropped into his lap and really freed up our options going into this draft.  The impression I get of Emery is that he really is going to build (or rebuild) the Bears through players we draft and develop, and that means we're gonna be treating our draft picks like gold.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 26, 2012, 11:22:35 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/26/colts-reportedly-looking-to-make-deals/

Interesting article.  I'm thinking, if a 7th got Asante Samuel, we should be able to get Freeney for a 6th.   ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 26, 2012, 11:34:16 am
I'd do that but I dont think we have the cash. Emery has really gone out and signed some veterans.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 26, 2012, 11:46:35 am
We'd have to get Freeney to re-do his contract, and load it heavily with incentives.

At his age he's probably good for about 15-20 snaps a game tops and he'd be way overpriced for that at his current salary.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 26, 2012, 11:58:00 am

Bears now have $5 million in salary cap space

 By Sean Jensen on April 26, 2012 10:08 AM| No Comments| No TrackBacks



The Bears shifted just enough, mostly with the latest Lance Briggs contract, to have $5 million in salary cap space, according to a league source.

But after having more space than any other club in the NFC North, the Bears are now second-to-last.

The Minnesota Vikings lead the way with about $13 million in space, followed by the Green Bay Packers with $8 million. Then the Bears, then the Detroit Lions with $4 million in space.


Thats why I doubt the Bears go after an expensive player like Freeney
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 26, 2012, 12:13:16 pm
How does the cap work with rookies?  Do we have to sign all our draft picks within that $5 mil or is it $5 mil for veterans and another pool for rookies?

Could be tough to get deals done with our draft picks if $5 mil is all we have to spend on all of em.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 26, 2012, 12:16:50 pm
I think the normal rookie pool is like 5M unless you have a high pick.
Most of the picks only get a low salary + some signing bonus which is spread over the contract.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 26, 2012, 12:20:16 pm
Yeah, its not like it used to be where some draft pick got like 17 million. They cut that crap out. My guess is that the 5 Million is the basic allowance for drafted players.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 26, 2012, 12:20:48 pm
I see.

As well, I'm sure Emery will want to keep some of our cap free in case there are veterans cut by other teams in training camp that he thinks could help us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 26, 2012, 12:27:01 pm
I'm thinking that some of these Schmos we've signed in FA wont last past training camp, so our cap will go us, with the cut players getting just their signing bonuses
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 26, 2012, 12:30:53 pm
Also I thought the bottom of the roster (salarywise) did not count towards the cap.  Which is why they were able to increase roster sizes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 26, 2012, 12:45:14 pm
All salary counts against the cap. We were so far under the cap by just not spending that we had so much cap to spend
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 26, 2012, 12:48:53 pm

Nope, salary cap is for your top 53 paid players plus I guess any injured players you carry.  The guys you cut don't count since you don't pay them.  But if you gave them any kind of signing bonus that should go against the cap.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 26, 2012, 12:52:20 pm
I think thats what was meant. Thats why some of these newbies wont make the 53 man roster
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 26, 2012, 12:58:33 pm
One things for sure, between the FAs Emery has already signed...  plus the kids we draft this weekend...  plus UDFAs and now with a training camp roster allowance of 90 vs 80 -- there is gonna be competition in training camp the likes of which we haven't seen in the whole Lovie era.  We almost have to by default wind up with a better roster than we've had in a long time just because of the churn Emery has already implemented plus the increased odds of finding some sleepers with the increased number of bodies in camp.

In other words, if we don't see some significant improvements in the product on the field this season, it won't be due to talent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 26, 2012, 01:01:24 pm
Right, it will be talent evaluation and coaching
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 26, 2012, 01:23:07 pm


Rosters expanded to 90 for offseason
 

Updated: April 23, 2012, 6:51 PM ET
 Associated Press
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NEW YORK -- The NFL has expanded rosters for the offseason and preseason to 90 players.

Previously, the limit was 80, but the league's Management Council voted to increase it Monday. The first cutdown, in late August, will be to 75, with the final cut after the last of four preseason games bringing rosters to 53.

Only the 51 highest-paid players count toward the salary cap.

The 90 players will include all active, inactive, practice squad, exempt and reserve list players, plus unsigned draft choices and franchise-tagged free agents.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 26, 2012, 01:24:28 pm
I knew it didn't count all of them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on April 26, 2012, 03:12:08 pm
I thought there was some provision (at one time) on vets making the minimum not counting either. It was some kind of incentive to keep aging vets over unproven rookies making a lot less.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on April 26, 2012, 03:33:23 pm
I knew it didn't count all of them.

It counts all of the 53 man roster and any signing bonuses they give to all the other 37, including tags, if any. So I am sure a cheap rookie will be important cap wise to making the 53 roster. So while they may be over the cap at this point, they cant be come final cuts, including the signing bonuses to players they've cut.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 26, 2012, 03:41:09 pm
Re-read the article it counts the 51 highest paid players only.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on April 28, 2012, 05:58:32 pm
Only 53 can suit up on Sunday (except for special QB rule).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on April 29, 2012, 05:04:26 am
Only 53 can suit up on Sunday (except for special QB rule).

 And what rule would that be?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 30, 2012, 01:54:40 pm
If anyone is curious, the Bears Top 3 draft choices have been assigned uniform numbers (per chicagobears.com):

- Shea McLellin will wear 99 and is listed at 6'3, 260
- Alshon Jeffery will wear 17 and is listed at 6'3, 216
- Hardin will wear 35 and is listed at 6'3, 222

The remaining draft picks, as well as the Bears UDFAs, are listed on the roster but have not had numbers assigned.  The UDFA WR from Liberty raises some interest as he is listed at 6'5, 213.  If nothing else he will provide a Megatron-sized target for our DBs to work against in training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on April 30, 2012, 05:30:09 pm
I've always thought Hampton got the shaft when they failed to retire his number. The guy was one of the best DLineman the Bears have ever had....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on April 30, 2012, 05:46:19 pm
Sadly sporty The Bears can not afford to retire anymore numbers.  There are only so many numbers and they are running out of them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 30, 2012, 05:53:09 pm
All I know is I hope McClellin gets Hampton's #99 mojo and not Gaines Adams'.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on April 30, 2012, 05:57:00 pm
- Shea McLellin will wear 99 and is listed at 6'3, 260
- Alshon Jeffery will wear 17 and is listed at 6'3, 216
- Hardin will wear 35 and is listed at 6'3, 222


99 will make Shea look bigger...17 brings back memories of Ike Hill...anyone remember him?...and 35....Neal Anderson....why don't more safeties wear numbers like 45 or 46?  Conte took 47 and I see that Major Wright laid claim to Corey Graham's #21.  35 is Neal Anderson.

Can't say that I like the WRs with QB numbers.  In addtion to Jeffery's 17,  Weems is #14, Marshall #15, Sanzenbacher #18, Devin Thomas #11....Bears have a few real WR numbers in the 80s available.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 30, 2012, 06:00:19 pm
Also with the expanded preseason rosters there's gonna be a lot more doubling up of uni #s through the first 3 exhibition games. Especially on teams like the Bears who have retired a fair number of #s already.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 30, 2012, 06:08:02 pm
Agreed on the safeties wearing 40s. Just seems old school and right for the Bears. Neither Plank nor Fencik have had their #s retired AFAIK. 35 was Bowman's number last...meh.

40s for the FBs too, such as we have. Major Wright I can see switching though cause 21 was his college #.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on April 30, 2012, 06:14:39 pm
I remember Ike Hill.  Good return man and played some WR, if I recall correctly.  Cecil Cooper, Ron Smith, Ike Hill ... these are what passed as "threats" on the 1970s Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on April 30, 2012, 06:16:09 pm
Re the WRs.... maybe the legacy of past Bears WRs is so tattered that they want to give our new batch a clean slate.

Plus with 5 or 6 TEs on the roster thats half the 80s right there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on April 30, 2012, 07:14:55 pm
Re the WRs.... maybe the legacy of past Bears WRs is so tattered that they want to give our new batch a clean slate.

Plus with 5 or 6 TEs on the roster thats half the 80s right there.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  Want to distance myself as much as possible if I am a new WR. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 01, 2012, 02:26:18 pm
At least 2 years too late, but better late than never I guess.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828c2007/article/bears-ready-to-give-up-on-hester-as-everydown-receiver

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 01, 2012, 02:36:26 pm
F I N A L L Y ! ! Been harping on this for a couple years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 01, 2012, 02:36:35 pm
Packers and Lions DBs have been roughing up our undersized WRs for years, without penalty.

Very eager to see Marshall and Jeffery administer some payback this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 01, 2012, 02:37:51 pm
Let's hope that converted FB to TE can do some damage as well....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 01, 2012, 02:40:25 pm
Always knew Hester wasn't anything close to a #1 WR and Lovie's stubbornness in that regard probably took a couple years off his career and cost him at least a half dozen return TDs.

That being said...  Hester stratetigically deployed as a #3 or 4...  with Marshall and Jeffery drawing away coverage and Forte working the flat...  look out.  He could tear up nickel defenses, add a few receiving TDs to go with his return TDs and log some ridiculous YPC.  This is what we should have been doing with him all along.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 01, 2012, 02:42:04 pm
Let's hope that converted FB to TE can do some damage as well....

I want to see Kellen Davis get his chances first, with an OC who finally understands the TE position and how to use it. 

Big Kellen deserves a shot at a breakout year after being a good soldier under two incompetent OCs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on May 01, 2012, 03:20:58 pm
Hester actually was appropriately an every down receiver on the Bears, given the other options that JA made available.  That's the sad part.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 01, 2012, 03:31:13 pm
The other thing is that after a half a game of being leaned on by 230-lb Marshall and 215-lb Jeffery, opposing DBs may not have so much left in the tank to beat up on Hester.  Or tackle our RBs, for that matter.  That could make it easier for us to salt away wins in the 4th quarter, whiich the Bears have had a hard time doing. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 01, 2012, 04:06:41 pm
We went from zero to hero with our recieving corps, man. Didn't realize Marshall was 230! That's huge for a reciever weight wise. This is going to be a fun year to watch methinks!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 01, 2012, 04:22:31 pm
Yeah Marshall's pretty much like having another TE on the field, size wise.  But with WR speed and skills, and now you understand why a lot of Dolphins fans weren't happy at all to see him go.

I'm smelling some sweet payback on opposing DBs but I just hope he can keep his mind right.  We've got two guys in Marshall and Jeffery who could totally terrorize most defenses we face...  or who could totally flame-out, and it all depends on what happens upstairs with both of them.

A sports psychologist added to the Bears payroll might be money well spent.

Also don't forget about Devin Thomas who goes 6'2 221 and runs sub 4.5 and is only 25 yrs old.  He had 79 catches for 1,260 yds and 8 TDs his final season in college but has never gotten past STs in the NFL.  Maybe this is the situation where he gets untracked and then we truly do have Saints-style size and depth at the position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 01, 2012, 04:56:20 pm
They better be able to scheme to protect Cutler. That offensive line is pretty offensive. Hopefully with the mini camps maybe we can get better production out of the guys we have. We didnt have that last year
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 01, 2012, 05:36:26 pm

I'm still holding out hope that Johnny Knox can come back at some point during the season.  A healthy Knox makes Marshall and Jeffrey's even more productive.

I vaguely recall the NFL talking about some sort of change in the IR status where you could be off the roster but still able to return to the roster if your healthy improved.  The PUP list onlly lasts 6 games I believe.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 01, 2012, 06:13:31 pm
I'd love to see Knox come back but I'd bet against. Even if he does I'm betting he comes back as more of a 4.5 guy than the 4.3 he was, and at his size I don't know how effective he can be without elite speed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on May 01, 2012, 08:38:48 pm
I'd love to see Knox come back but I'd bet against. Even if he does I'm betting he comes back as more of a 4.5 guy than the 4.3 he was, and at his size I don't know how effective he can be without elite speed.

 Isnt that why we got Thomas?

 Still seems like Toub calls alotta shots in F.A. and the draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on May 02, 2012, 01:47:45 am
They better be able to scheme to protect Cutler. That offensive line is pretty offensive. Hopefully with the mini camps maybe we can get better production out of the guys we have. We didnt have that last year

FWIW, in yesterday's Earl Bennett interview (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2Fd0%2Fd1%2Fd0%2FdE%2FdR%2Fd0%2F10ER0_4.MP3%3Fauthtok%3D5561761388759124622_NaSvcafxRAwcy8wWsis96clpEkg&podcast_name=Earl+Bennett+with+Boers+and+Bernstein&podcast_artist=Boers+and+Bernstein&station_id=391&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.CHI) when asked whether Cutler would be able to audible, he said that the new offense would be "quarterback friendly."  Being able to modify plays at the LOS in order to move the chains and protect yourself ought to make the OL protection look better.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about the depth at DT than the OL at this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 08:03:34 am
Frankly, I'm more concerned about the depth at DT than the OL at this point.

Ditto.  Very slim (literally) pickings after Toeaina, Paea and Melton... and Toeaina is the only one of those guys over 300 lbs.  I would suspect there are plans to play Izzy inside in certain situations as well but at 6'6 275 there are only so many double-teams and cut-blocks he can absorb before he starts to wear down and it affects his impact off the edge.

As for Cutler, other than the fact that he's coming back with the some OL, he really couldn't ask for more than has happened this offseason. An OC who "gets it" in Tice, his buddy Bates on board, Michael Bush to beef up our power running game, and a bunch of new, much bigger targets to throw to.  I have to say I'm more excited about the prospects for this offense than I have been in many years, provided Cutler's protection holds out. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 02, 2012, 08:31:17 am
Yeah, the key to the offense is definitely protection for Cutler. He needs time to get the ball to the receivers and we need to get holes to run through. And it seems the division defenses are loading up to stop the run which will force the Bears to pass more
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 08:33:09 am
Article in the Trib today about the Cutler/Cavalieri baby being a boy.

Don't know when the due date is but I hope it's not during training camp.  Cutler needs his head 100% into football this preseason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 02, 2012, 08:52:29 am
IMHO he needs to marry the woman. That could solve a lot of head problems
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 09:11:25 am
IMHO he needs to marry the woman.

Only if there's a pre-nup.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 02, 2012, 09:12:41 am
She has her own money. Don't see her as a golddigger.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 09:13:13 am
She doesn't have as much as Cutler though.  Not even close.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 02, 2012, 09:21:48 am
Of couse she doesn't but she has enough that she doesen't need to hunt down a rich guy to pay her bills. This is not an Urlacher situation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 09:30:44 am
This is not an Urlacher situation.

Yeah, for one thing Cutler's baby momma is a whole lot hotter.

Now I hear Urlacher's getting mixed up with Jenny McCarthy.  I wonder about that guy sometimes.  On the field he's got it all together but his personal life... yikes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 02, 2012, 10:00:58 am
Marry the girl. Plain and simple.  All guys hate being nagged and bitched at, but every once in a while it comes through and hauls your ass out of an oh my God did I screw up situation.  Url is finding out that beauty is only skin deep, and we all have egos and drives, male and female.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 10:04:45 am
Good news...  our 2nd round pick is already in the fold.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-sign-wr-jeffery-to-fouryear-deal-20120502,0,6092143.story

Hopefully he spends some of that money on a nutritionist and a personal trainer if the Bears don't have him hooked up with those resources already.  This guy can easily carry 220 lbs or maybe even a bit more but it needs to be "good" weight (which it wasn't his last year at So Carolina).  With Emery's focus on strength and conditioning (and hopefully a chip on Jeffery's shoulder), it would not surprise me if he's ripped and in better shape than he's ever been by the time training camp kicks off.   

The other thing is to get him a playbook and get him in a room with Tice, Bates, Cutler, Marshall and Bennett and let them all get to work.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 10:30:39 am
My only question is if Cutler's gonna be able to keep Marshall and Jeffery both happy.

We all know Cutler is gonna favor his homeboy Marshall, especially early in the season.  So if he starts forcing things to Marshall (like he did with Olsen) at the expense of Jeffery, how long until Jeffery checks out? 

Bennett I'm not worried about.  He's given no evidence he's anything less than 100% team player and I think he knows that if he does his job, Cutler will find him and his numbers will take care of themselves (to the extent numbers even matter to him).  The other two, I'm not so sure about.

Don't get me wrong, it's a hell of a lot better problem to have than we've had at WR during Cutler's time here so far.  But it's a situation that Cutler will have to be mindful of and that Tice and Bates will have to be prepared to "manage" if necessary. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 02, 2012, 10:37:59 am
Cutler has done a pretty good job of getting the ball to many different receivers. I expect he will get it to the guy that least covered :-)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 12:26:16 pm
90% of the comments to various articles on the Jeffery signing are smart-azz remarks about how now he has all this money to go buy cookies, donuts, pizza, whatever.  Look out Golden Corrall, Alshon got paid and he's heading your way.  Etc. etc.

Bring on the haters, I say.  Hopefully the kid takes it all and turns it into motivation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 02, 2012, 12:28:31 pm
Cutler has done a pretty good job of getting the ball to many different receivers. I expect he will get it to the guy that least covered :-)

At least thats what we hope
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 12:38:59 pm
I wonder if attention now turns back to getting the Forte situation resolved.

Matt and his agents are beyond idiots if they don't look at the additions the Bears have made this offseason and recognize we have the makings of an offense the likes of which Chicago has never seen before both in terms of balance and talent (particularly at the skill positions).  There are going to be opportunities for Forte to absolutely run wild and I hope he realizes that if he doesn't take this chance and run with it (literally), then Michael Bush will be happy to. 

There are a lot of RBs who I'm certain are envying what's happened in Chicago this offseason and would jump at the chance to get onboard for considerably less $$ than Forte has been holding out for so far.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 02, 2012, 12:42:55 pm

They got to sign the rookies....and hunt down the FAs.  Forte and his contract are probably on the back burner right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 12:51:39 pm
We didn't draft a RB and I notice we didn't go very hard after that position in the UDFA market either so I assume Emery & Co. are banking that Forte will be on-board by training camp, either via the franchise tender or a long-term deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on May 02, 2012, 01:07:20 pm
Man's gotta feed his family...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 02, 2012, 04:16:13 pm
Meat and potatoes, not caviar
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 04:21:05 pm
Does Forte even have a family?  Thought he was single...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 02, 2012, 04:31:28 pm
Man's gotta feed his five children by three women......

Not saying Forte is that man, just saying...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 04:49:25 pm
Yeah, seems to be the thing in the NFL these days.

Even worse in the NBA from what I hear.  But I quit following pro hoops a long time ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on May 02, 2012, 06:39:41 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 02, 2012, 06:46:34 pm
Thx, great to see.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 02, 2012, 09:00:20 pm
It's great to see Cut out there zinging it around some.... doesn't look like his thumb will be a issue.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 02, 2012, 11:01:39 pm
That makes the quick signing of Jeffrey all the more important...  the sooner he's under contract, the sooner he can be out there getting comfortable with Cutler and the offense in general.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 03, 2012, 07:38:19 am
I take it that was Jeffery that Cutler was throwing to in the video? I dont believe they said who it was.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 08:03:51 am
The clip won't play on my computer so I can't comment.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 03, 2012, 08:45:31 am
I think it was Jeffrey.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 08:57:35 am
How's Cutler throwing?  Nice tight spiral?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on May 03, 2012, 09:10:52 am
That was great.  Excited about the offense. Cant' wait to see what Cutler can do with Marshall and Jeffrey!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 09:17:20 am
Hopefully Tice and Bates are figuring out ways to put the screws to those 3-4 defenses with big physical CBs that gave us fits in the Martz era.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 03, 2012, 09:51:00 am
Yes the spirals are there.  Doesn't seem to have any damage. Course, I'm sure that video was reviewed very carefully.  That SC kid is big!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 10:28:51 am
Yes the spirals are there.  Doesn't seem to have any damage.

Good to hear.  Really glad Cutler was smart enough to have the work done by a Doc of his choosing and not some quack on the Bears payroll.

That SC kid is big!

Yup, and Marshall's even bigger than he is.

Opposing CBs used to pretty much have a day off when the Bears came up on their schedule.  That's about to change. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 03, 2012, 10:57:46 am

I think the guy in the video is Marshall.  Not sure rookies are even invited to this camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 03, 2012, 11:03:39 am
I think the guy in the video is Marshall.  Not sure rookies are even invited to this camp.

Thats what I wasnt sure about. But beings he is signed it could be Jeffery. Thats why I asked who it was. Marshall usually plays on the right side. Whoever it is in the video was playing left side which is the confusing part.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 11:04:06 am
The guy in the thumbnail is Marshall.  For whatever reason I can't play the video so I don't know if Jeffery is in the vid too or it's just Marshall.

I would think that if Jeffery was signed yesterday morning as announced, then he could (and should) have been working out with Cutler anytime after that.  But I don't know all the procedures on that as far as rookies go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 11:08:32 am
Thats what I wasnt sure about. But beings he is signed it could be Jeffery. Thats why I asked who it was. Marshall usually plays on the right side. Whoever it is in the video was playing left side which is the confusing part

Which brings up an interesting question...  who's gonna play where?

I think a lot of us would like to see Marshall and Jeffery together on the field as much as possible, but where does that leave Bennett?  If 3-WR formations are gonna be the norm, then you can fit Bennett in but it could also be a deal where Marshall is the 1 and Jeffery and Bennett alternate as the 2 depending on situation and matchups.  I.e., Jeffery may not get all the reps we'd want or expect him to, at least in the early going.

Also, if our pass protection doesn't come together and we have to run a lot of 2 TE sets to help the OTs then that may take the 3rd WR out of the equation more too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 03, 2012, 11:14:15 am
My guess is Bennett would play the slot
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 03, 2012, 11:18:43 am
I would put Jeffrey in one outside spot and let him learn that for now.
Marshall and Bennett are vets who should be able to move around as needed.
I would expect Bennett and Jeffrey to alternate at #2 some when there are only 2 WR on the field,
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 11:21:27 am
Correct.

1 - Marshall - the biggest, the fastest and the highest paid.  No brainer.
2 - Jeffery - this is his natural NFL position so if he has to break in at just one, this makes sense.
3 - Bennett - Has the size, quickness and savvy to make nickel backs pay.

And then Hester comes in for 4-wide packages, though he could be deployed as the 3 in certain circumstances with Bennett going to the 2 to give us a trio that is smaller, but has more quickness and veteran experience.

You could also roll a "jumbo" trio with Marshall, Jeffery and Devin Thomas (6'2, 221), for example in red zone situations.

Sanzenbacher seems to be the odd man out right now as he physically can't hang with the rest of those guys nor is he a real demon on STs which is where you really have to earn your keep if you're looking up at 3 or 4 other guys on the depth chart.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 03, 2012, 11:50:57 am

Our starting WRs last season were Roy Williams and Hester while Knox rode the bench - maybe we can blame Martz for that - I dunno.

I would be surprised if Jeffrey, a rookie, started.   Marshall and Bennett start.  And then work in the best guy at #3 whether that be Jeffrey, Hester or Thomas.  I don't think Sanzenbacher makes the team - I think most of his success last year came from teams ignoring him because of his shortness and slowness.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 03, 2012, 11:51:36 am
Sanzenbacher seems to be the odd man out right now as he physically can't hang with the rest of those guys nor is he a real demon on STs which is where you really have to earn your keep if you're looking up at 3 or 4 other guys on the depth chart.

He does seem to be the odd man out, at least if Knox comes back
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 03, 2012, 11:52:20 am
Rookies report next week...I don't know if they practice with other rookies or with the veterans.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 12:07:02 pm
I would be surprised if Jeffrey, a rookie, started.   

True...  that's outside of Lovie's M.O.   Carimi started as a rookie last year but our OL situation was so desperate there really wasn't another option.

And honestly, I'd have no problem opening the season with Marshall and Bennett as the starting duo but I would want to see Jeffery getting opportunities early and often.  You don't draft a guy in the 2nd round (trading up, no less), only to play him a handful of downs a game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 03, 2012, 12:13:32 pm
Thats exactly why eventually he starts
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 03, 2012, 12:14:27 pm
fwiw:http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-waive-safety-venable-20120503,0,6544379.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 12:35:34 pm
Numbers have been assigned to the rest of the Bears' draft picks, as well as the UDFAs:

#88  TE  Evan Rodriguez, 6'2, 244
#31  CB  Isaiah Frey, 5'11 190
#39  CB  Greg McCoy, 5'10, 181
#38  RB  Alvester Alexander, 5'10 206
#78  G/T James Brown, 6'4, 306
#79  DT  Ronnie Cameron, 6'2 304
#95  LB  Adrien Cole, 5'11 235
#43   S   Trevor Coston, 5'10 199
#81  WR  Terriun Crump, 6'2 223
#82  WR  Brittan Golden, 5'11 186
#75   T  A.J. Greene, 6'5 298
#46   S  Jeremy Jones, 5'10 197
#83  WR  Chris Summers, 6'5 213
#62  LB  Ronnie Thornton, 6'2 244

By position, this is how the current Bears roster breaks out (includes all veterans, draft picks and UDFAs):

CB - 8
DE - 5
DT - 4
DL - 2  (Izzy and Melton are listed as DL vs. DT or DE)
FB - 1
Interior OL - 10
OT - 4
K - 1
P - 1
LS - 1
LB - 11
QB - 4
RB - 6
S - 7
TE - 6
WR - 11  (This includes Knox who is listed on the roster as well as Weems who is listed as WR/KR)

To me the current roster strikes me as sparse at DT and OT, heavy on CBs and LBs (though some of those will be STers primarily I'm sure), and way overstaffed at TE.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 03, 2012, 02:25:32 pm
Interesting breakdown.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 02:34:56 pm
You can get a pretty good idea of where Emery felt upgrades were needed by how many bodies he brought in at some of those positions.

OT still looks extremely dicey from my point of view, though. As your starters you've got Webb and a 2nd year guy who lasted exactly 6 quarters in the NFL before going down for the year.  And those are your "veterans". Behind them you've got Levi Horn (who was on the PS last year), and the UDFA rookie from Auburn. Plus potentially Chris Williams sliding back outside.  And that is IT.

Yikes.

Meanwhile we're up to our eyeballs in OGs.  Curious indeed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 04:07:29 pm
Finally got that video clip to work.

Jeffery isn't in any of that footage.  Most of the throws are to Marshall and one is to Bennett.

Cutler's spinning the ball nicely.

Was hoping to see some footage of Carimi but I didn't see much of him (or any of the OL for that matter).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 03, 2012, 04:38:14 pm

You know, they also have Lance Louis who proved that he can fill in at RT, but you'd rather have a legit swing tackle especially for purposes of short yardage/goal line etc when you need to line up a couple tackles side by side.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 04:51:52 pm
Not to keep banging the drum for Chilo Rachal but he's like another OT on the field (6'5 325). 

He doesn't have the feet to be in the mix as a T (even a RT), but that kind of size could come in handy in short yardage situations.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on May 03, 2012, 05:30:25 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8790

Thayer talks about the draft picks and the competition on the O-line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 05:56:19 pm
Thx ill check that clip out when I'm back on a  computer.

The Bears are really circling the wagons as far as the OL questions and I know Thayer is being paid to push the party line... But he was a pretty good G back in the day so I'm still interested to hear his take.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 03, 2012, 06:22:33 pm
Meh, company  man
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on May 03, 2012, 06:29:39 pm
That was Brandon Marshall in that clip.  You guys are funny.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on May 03, 2012, 07:03:37 pm
Jeffrey's looks and plays like Marshall.

In uniform not the face.  That was obviously Marshall in the first video I posted,  In this one it is Alshon.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 08:40:19 pm
Marshall and Jeffrey are gonna wear DBs out. Can't wait!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 03, 2012, 09:28:52 pm
ok fine!  I didn't know who the hell I was looking at. Who ever it was, he was big!  Is that what nfl caliber wide outs are supposed to look like?  Having watched the bears forever, I didn't know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on May 03, 2012, 09:37:43 pm
LOL!  46, don't feel bad.  After years of seeing midgets playing WR for the Bears I can;t blame you for not recognizing Marshall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 03, 2012, 10:10:30 pm
Marshall and Jeffrey are gonna wear DBs out. Can't wait!


April 30, 2012
New receivers will pose problems

By: Larry Mayer | Last Updated: 4/30/2012 2:43 PM

From chicagobears.com

Things are looking up for the Bears at the receiver position, both figuratively and literally, thanks to the acquisition of 6-foot-4 veteran Brandon Marshall and 6-3 rookie Alshon Jeffery.

 The Bears traded for Marshall and selected Jeffery in the second round of the draft. Putting both players on the field together should provide match-up problems for opposing defenses, who may also have to contend with 6-7 tight ends Kellen Davis and Matt Spaeth.
 
“As a defensive-thinking coach, it’s pretty hard [to defend],” said coach Lovie Smith. “Just look at the size of the corners. They’re not 6-3, 6-4. Most corners in the league are under six feet.
 
"So that does cause problems. That’s why we’re pretty excited about how we’ve given our receiver corps a different look with Brandon Marshall and also Alshon coming in. I’m anxious to see how teams do deal with it. It should cause hopefully a lot of problems to open up that running game a little bit more.”
 
Of the 26 cornerbacks who started against the Bears last season, 19 were six feet tall or under. The only team that started two cornerbacks who were both at least 6-1 was the Seahawks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 03, 2012, 10:18:53 pm
Lovie's so wack. Says nothing about the big new WRs helping Cutler, helping our air game get to the level of the Pack or Lions, or improving our abysmal production in the red zone... just that it will open up the run game more.

Hey dipsh*t, running the ball was the one problem our offense DIDN'T have last year.  And if you're so big on running the ball, then lean on your RB to sign his damn franchise tender and then lean on your GM to get a long-term deal done w/him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 04, 2012, 12:41:08 pm
Lovie doesn't want to give out any bulletin board material, when he talks he doesn't say much unless it is fluff.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 04, 2012, 01:29:10 pm
Marshall and Jeffrey are gonna wear DBs out. Can't wait!

Let's just wait to see what Jeffrey has to offer before saying that.  Give him a chance first.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 04, 2012, 02:24:30 pm
"when he talks he doesn't say much unless it is fluff"

You ever think that is all that is up stairs there???  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 04, 2012, 02:51:17 pm
Sometimes I wonder if that permanently detached, clueless persona is just a front he puts on so opposing HCs underestimate him.

But he's made enough boneheaded calls in games over the years that I don't think it's a front.

I have to think that even his most ardent admirers are gonna have a real hard time defending him if this team misses the playoffs again after Emery has pretty much given him all the talent upgrades he could want this offseason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 07, 2012, 12:05:13 am
I thought you were down and out on Emery after his draft?

Sounds like you didn't like the "talent upgrades" he made then.  As a matter of fact if I recall you said our draft is the worst in the division. 

Interesting how you change your mind daily.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 08:51:15 am
Still not keen on our draft outside of the Jeffery pick, but the 1st and 3rd round picks were made to accommodate Lovie.  The high-motor undersized DE and the obligatory safety-with-potential that we draft every year.  That's why I say Lovie has no more excuses after this year.  It McLellin and Hardin do their jobs but our D still fails, then the problem is clearly the coaching and the scheme and both need to go.

I still rate Emery an A for his efforts in free agency and a C for the draft.  Nothing has changed there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 08:54:44 am
Possible DT addition.  Big body low round draft pick whose career has never gotten off the ground due to injuries.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-to-look-at-freeagent-dt-lewis-20120506,0,18062.story

Looks like TC fodder at best. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 07, 2012, 09:22:02 am
He had earned a starting spot late that year which was good for a 6th round rookie.
If he is healthy and can stay that well maybe he can be a rotational guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 09:26:54 am
The guy wrecked his ACL and then wrecked it again while rehabbing from the first one.

Hope the kid comes into camp and kills it but based on his medical history the odds are definitely against him.

At minimum it will give our OL some practice against a guy who's pretty much the league average size for DTs now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 07, 2012, 10:21:44 am
He missed all of last season. I dont give him much of a fighting chance. I mean like how many times does lightening strike the same spot?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 10:27:43 am
The article says he's already 27 so he's got to know the clock is ticking.  If we take a flyer on him I have to think he'd be highly motivated as it would likely be his last shot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 07, 2012, 10:33:24 am
But guys who miss a season lose quite a bit. Unless he has been a workout warrior, he's toast. And his football IQ, aww forget it
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 10:43:05 am
Yeah the guy's medical history is pretty bad for a GM who supposedly was going to focus on bringing in "clean" players.

But since Emery didn't feel any DT was worth a draft pick he has to shop the bargain basement now.  Still hoping a viable DT or two comes available after June 1 cause after Paea, Toeiana and Melton our roster is looking bleak at that position. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 07, 2012, 11:03:44 am
Hope Emery really knows these guys.  If not, dl is toast.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 11:06:50 am
Not to mention, the fact that our top 3 DTs are all at or below average size makes it all the more important to have some quality guys behind them.  Even if their lack of size doesn't make them more prone to injury, they will certainly be more prone to wearing down at the end of games and the season.

At minimum we need one solid backup at each of the DT positions and as of now, we ain't got 'em.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 07, 2012, 12:48:02 pm
I wonder if Emery's plan is to put Wooten in the DE rotation and let Idonije move into the DT rotation. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 07, 2012, 12:50:38 pm
Bears typically use 4 DTs in a game with a 5th on the inactive list for insurance purposes.  That means we need 2 more to make the 53 man roster.

I could see the Bears reviewing other teams' cuts throughout the year but maybe for a 5th DT not a 4th and a 5th.  That's why I really wanted to retain Okoye.

Idonijie might be able to play some DT on 3rd down if McClellan is the real deal - but I don't think they're that desperate....yet.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 01:05:54 pm
I suppose it's always possible they could ask Izzy to get back up to 295 and play DT full-time but I really don't see that happening. He established himself as a decent DE when given the opportunity last year so I hope they don't do anything to mess that up.

On Chicagobears.com they have Izzy and Melton listed as DL as opposed to everyone else being a DE or DT.  That may indicate they intend Izzy and Melton to play either inside or outside depending on situation and/or opponent.

So what you may wind up with is an 8-player gameday rotation that looks something like:

- A core DE unit of Peppers, McLellin and Wootton or Chauncey Davis
- A core DT unit of Paea, Toeiana and a 3rd guy TBD
- And then Izzy and Melton "floating" between the inside and outside positions depending on down/distance and matchups

Which, if you look at it that way, makes us somewhat deeper at DT than it appears on the surface though even then we're still thin at the position and definitely lacking mass (Paea and Toeiana being the only guys at 300+ lbs).  Also don't forget that Peppers was moved inside in certain situations last year and was pretty effective although for the sake of his aging knees I don't think that's something we do a lot of going forward.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 01:41:09 pm
So here's a question...  Bears rookie minicamp is this weekend.  I presume that means all of our draft picks have to be signed by then (since no player with any sense would risk injury before he was under contract)?  Lots of work to be done at Halas Hall this week if that's the case. So far the only deal we've gotten done is Jeffery... 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 07, 2012, 01:43:37 pm
I thought I read somewhere that Cliff Stein wanted to have all rookies signed by 5-15 this year. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 01:50:34 pm
May 15 would be after the rookie minicamp.

From the draftees' standpoint that kind of puts them in a bind.  Skipping rookie minicamp is definitely not the way to get off on the good foot with your new coaches and the veterans... but if they go in sans contract and blow a knee in a non-contact drill, they're SOL.  There must be something in the CBA that covers a player if something happens to him in rookie camp before he's under contract.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 07, 2012, 02:38:36 pm
anyone that knows they are  good enough to be drafted would have purchased an insurance policy against a career ending injury that covered him while finishing his college career. If there's  a kid that was a surprise draft pick then the agent he hires would certainly do that as the first priority. Protects them from anything even getting hit by a bus. Unless they are complete morons and didn't cover themselves they will be fine even if they get hurt in rookie camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 07, 2012, 02:45:52 pm
OK, the insurance policy thing makes sense but how do these guys know how big of a policy to take out when they don't know for sure where they'll be drafted? I suppose their agent can usually give them a general idea of how high they might go and then based on the salary slotting they can estimate from there...  but it seems to me the 1st and 2nd round guys are the ones who would have the most incentive to get themselves under contract before their first OTA, since those guys have the most guaranteed money at stake.

As of today only one team's 1st round pick has signed and that's the DE/OLB that went to Seattle. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on May 07, 2012, 06:52:56 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/07/brandon-marshall-devin-hester-will-have-a-bigger-year-than-me/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 08:07:04 am
Nice thoughts by Brandon Marshall re Hester, but I don't think that's what Emery had in mind when he traded for him.

Marshall's presence will certainly open up some opportunities for Hester in the receving game...  but if Hester winds up outplaying Marshall as a WR then something went very wrong.

That all being said, I have been very impressed with how Marshall has handled himself in the media since joining the Bears. For a guy who came in with a rep as a diva and a head case I haven't seen any of that (at least so far).  In fact, his personal demons notwithstanding he gives evidence of being something the Bears have not had in a very very long time...  a LEADER at the WR position. Here's hoping what we've seen of him so far is the real deal and that he is equally impressive for us on the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 08, 2012, 08:55:56 am
We've had receivers in the past who were decoys
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 08, 2012, 10:48:51 am
Nice thoughts by Brandon Marshall re Hester, but I don't think that's what Emery had in mind when he traded for him.

Marshall's presence will certainly open up some opportunities for Hester in the receving game...  but if Hester winds up outplaying Marshall as a WR then something went very wrong.

Or something went VERY right!  If Hester is a threat along side Marshall why would something be wrong?  I remember folks here clamoring for Hester to be used in the offense after the Super Bowl season but complain ever since. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 08, 2012, 10:58:49 am

The reason we've been complaining is we've seen him play.  He's just too inconsistent.

I'd still like to see him play WR but he should not be starting.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 08, 2012, 11:03:04 am
I'm remarking about yapper's comment about it being something wrong if Hester improves alongside Marshall.

I don't understand why he would think it's a bad thing.  I would say different.  Hester wasn't a WR coming out of college and is as you say inconsistent.   He's still learning on the job and I get the frustration but if he improves I think it's a great weapon to have on offense.

I'm willing to give it a chance instead of complaining.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 11:06:48 am
I like Tyler Clutts a lot but I wonder if Emery would give this guy a look:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/08/falcons-release-ovie-mughelli/

Normally I wouldn't give this article the time of day but considering Emery's former ties to the Falcons...  and if this guy was one of the players he had a hand in bringing in while he was there...  just sayin.

Irregardless the Bears are unlikely to keep more than 1 FB and right now Clutts is that guy so he'd be the one to lose out if we brought this guy in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 11:13:24 am
I'm remarking about yapper's comment about it being something wrong if Hester improves alongside Marshall.

I don't understand why he would think it's a bad thing.  I would say different.  Hester wasn't a WR coming out of college and is as you say inconsistent.   He's still learning on the job and I get the frustration but if he improves I think it's a great weapon to have on offense.

I'm willing to give it a chance instead of complaining.


And what I'm saying is, you don't trade two draft picks and pay a guy $8 or $9 mil a season to not be the clear-cut #1 WR on your team in every way.

Now maybe it works out that Marshall leads the team in receptions and yards, Hester leads the team in yards-per-catch and Jeffery leads in receiving TDs. I could see that happening and it would be a great situation.  But for Hester to wind up leading all Bears WRs across the board I really don't see happening if for no other reason then Cutler is clearly more comfortable throwing to Marshall and Bennett, so not only will Hester likely be playing fewer downs at WR than he has in past years, but he won't be the primary target even when he's on the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 11:25:34 am
The other thing to consider with Hester is that he has had the misfortune of playing under two Bears OCs who were equally inept, but in different ways.

Now we've got Bates, who in Denver saw a WR similar to Hester (Eddie Royal) get almost 1,000 receiving his rookie season (the year Cutler went to the Pro Bowl).  So maybe the pieces are finally in place for Hester to do damage at WR and if that's the case I really don't see too many defenses out there who can keep all our weapons under wraps.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 08, 2012, 11:41:59 am
I would expect once Jeffrey starts producing (paired with Marshall) that it should really open things up for guys like Bennett and Hester.
I would agree with Yapp, while I expect Hester might (given the opportunity) make better use of his opportunities, I really doubt he out-performs Marshall (baring suspension/injury).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 08, 2012, 12:21:13 pm
I doubt it too but I just wouldn't whine about Hester getting better if it's because of the additions at the WR position.  I for one would be thrilled if Hester were to outperform Marshall at times.

Didn't say it'll happen but who would complain about that! 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 12:29:24 pm
At the very least, it's some great gamesmanship by Marshall to start getting into opposing players' (and DC's) heads. "Don't put all your DBs on me or Hester will HURT ya!" 

That kinda thing.

Really liking what I've seen of Marshall so far and I hope he's everything on the field for the Bears that he was for the Broncos, and more.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 01:35:34 pm
Bears signed 7th round pick McCoy today.

2 down, 4 to go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 08, 2012, 04:03:29 pm
"He's still learning on the job"

See, thats where I kinda balk. Why is he still learning on the job? Like how many years does it take? Like how many chances does the guy get? Now admittedly he hasnt had a lot of help to take the pressure off him but I just dont believe Hester will ever be a quality WR. Just my 2 cents worth.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 08, 2012, 04:07:38 pm
Keep that kid fresh as a daisy for the returns. He can do more damage and create more excitement in 15 seconds than an entire season of Wanny led Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 08, 2012, 04:10:36 pm
The way Marshall's presence betters the team is not by helping Hester gets more plays or openings, but by keeping his butt on the bench! We now have true NFL quality wideouts. I don't want Hester on the field any more than he has to be!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 04:18:39 pm
Chargers sign their 1st round pick:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/08/chargers-sign-draft-choices-melvin-ingram-and-david-molk/

Ingram was drafted one spot ahead of McLellin, and like McLellin, is an edge pass rush specialist. So it should pretty much be cut-and-dried what McLellin is gonna get.

In other words... get 'er done. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 04:23:35 pm
Wshful, 46 and Sporty -

I get your point but keep in mind that neither Marshall, nor Jeffery, nor Bennett are real speed burners.

Knox is not coming back this year, which means Hester is our only true deep threat.  So he WILL be playing a certain number of downs at WR by necessity.  Now, if he proves totally ineffective or screws up too many times (drops, deflections for picks, wrong routes, whatever), then his reps may be cut back, but I have no reason to believe he won't get opportunities at WR out of the gate, and both Lovie and Emery have said as much. 

Without a deep threat our passing game is basically the NY Giants and in the division we play in, we've got to be more high-powered than that.  We need a field stretcher, and Hester can do that better than anyone else we've got by a ways.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 08, 2012, 04:34:28 pm
I am not trying to urinate on anybody's Wheaties, but I am just fed up with Hester's drops and lack of production. I am tired of giving him chances and the failures.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 08, 2012, 04:39:03 pm
Rodriguez signed.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/08/bears-sign-fourth-round-pick/

Half of our draft class is now under contract with two days left till the rookie mini-camp.  And the signed players include both of our offensive picks, which is key as their learning curve will be steeper and they need to establish a comfort level with Cutler ASAP. 

McLellin, Hardin and Frey left to go and I expect the McLellin deal to happen any time now since Ingram (who went one spot ahead of him) signed this afternoon.

Good work Emery and Stein, keep it up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 08, 2012, 05:17:22 pm

I think I've expressed my concerns with Hester at WR frequently in the past, but one aspect of Hester's game was largely ignored by Martz.  Hester as a deep threat.  In fact, Martz with all his 7 step drops rarely threw the deep ball, the bomb,  to anybody and that includes Knox as well as Hester.

If teams fear Hester deep then Marshall and the rest of the guys will feast on single coverage.  If Hester is left in single coverage throw it to him deep.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 08, 2012, 05:42:07 pm
Rodriguez signed.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/08/bears-sign-fourth-round-pick/

Half of our draft class is now under contract with two days left till the rookie mini-camp.  And the signed players include both of our offensive picks, which is key as their learning curve will be steeper and they need to establish a comfort level with Cutler ASAP. 

McLellin, Hardin and Frey left to go and I expect the McLellin deal to happen any time now since Ingram (who went one spot ahead of him) signed this afternoon.

Good work Emery and Stein, keep it up.

Didnt the 19th pick last year have some bizarre contract stipulation that caused him to be the last 1st rounder to sign?  I remember reading that somewhere.  I just hope ol' Shea doesnt have visions of granduer.  Or his agent doesnt. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 08, 2012, 05:43:26 pm
The way Marshall's presence betters the team is not by helping Hester gets more plays or openings, but by keeping his butt on the bench! We now have true NFL quality wideouts. I don't want Hester on the field any more than he has to be!

I agree 100%.  Let Hester have his limited number of plays, let him learn them and not forget them, and hopefully execute them correctly when he gets a chance.  But keep him fresh for returns. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 08, 2012, 05:55:56 pm
I'm not sure ANYONE "fears Hester deep"....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 08, 2012, 07:04:14 pm
He can get deep, and fast, but can he catch and hang on to the ball.  That is the question.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on May 08, 2012, 08:30:26 pm
so far I would say not so much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 08, 2012, 09:26:38 pm

He's caught some deep ones in the past but my point is Martz rarely threw bombs while he was OC. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 08, 2012, 09:53:18 pm
We know why. He had to have a 7 step drop and he had no OLine that could protect that long
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 08, 2012, 11:27:24 pm
Dallas, bringing the family there in a month for vacation. Never been to Texas. Anything of particular interest to see while there? What's a real good rib/BBQ joint? We're probably gonna hit San Antonio, Dallas is where we're flying in to, and maybe Houston and the gulf area.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 09, 2012, 07:02:24 am
I've been to Texas a few times and the thing that sticks out in my mind besides a good bit of it being flat is the roads.
We flew into La to drive over to Nacogdoches for a job one time and the road in LA was kind of cruddy, narrow and rough and 55mph. This was a major road too. When we crossed the state in into Tx the road was much wider and smoother and the speed limit was 70mph!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 09, 2012, 07:55:48 am
He can get deep, and fast, but can he catch and hang on to the ball.  That is the question.

No!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 09, 2012, 08:09:33 am
Dumbest article I've seen from Pompeii in a long time, and he's put out plenty of 'em.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-0509-pompei-bears-harris-chicago--20120509,0,6970625.column

The last thing we need taking up a roster spot is a washed-up 290-lb 3-Technique who can only function in Lovie's scheme and hasn't even done that effectively for several years.   

Much better would be to use that 4th DT spot for a big young kid that can give us decent spot play this year and potentially start in 2 to 3 yrs irregardless of if we're still running Lovie's scheme or not. It's time to build for the future, not give one more has-been another $1M or $2M to take into retirement (see Orlando Pace, Adam Archuleta, etc.).  I would hope Emery is smart enough to realize that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 09, 2012, 10:11:38 am
Just say no to Tommie Harris.  Please.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 09, 2012, 10:27:40 am
Letting Okoye go only to bring back Tommie Harris is something Angelo would have done, and would be a major fail IMO.

For the money Tommie would cost we probably could have kept Okoye and had a younger and better player. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 09, 2012, 11:07:43 am
I also wish we had signed Okoye, he got a 1yr, 2M per deal.
I expect we can get Tommie for closer to 1M per.
If he can give us 10-15 good plays per game it might be worth it with no one else in the pipeline.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 09, 2012, 11:11:41 am
If he can give us 10-15 good plays per game it might be worth it with no one else in the pipeline.

To be honest I'd be surprised if Tommie could deliver 10 or 15 good plays for the season.  He was a waste of a roster spot his last couple of years here and I don't see any reason to think he's gotten better with age.

Emery has erred (IMO) in not getting some good DT talent in the pipeline this offseason... but there's no sense compounding that with a bad FA signing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 09, 2012, 11:37:26 am
Great comment about Harris:

1985bears says:May 9, 2012 11:56 AM

Tommie just tore his ACL reading this.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 09, 2012, 11:43:01 am
The one thing bringing back Tommie would do is allow him to retire as a Bear.  Which after the good years he did have early on, the death of his wife, etc. would be a classy move and some nice PR.

But from a purely football perspective it makes no sense at all. If anyone but Lovie Smith was the Bears HC this year, this wouldn't even be up for discussion. Roster spots are golden and after all the moves Emery has done to make this roster younger and healthier I would expect him to come under some pretty intense critique if he pulled the trigger on this.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 09, 2012, 12:00:20 pm
Dallas, bringing the family there in a month for vacation. Never been to Texas. Anything of particular interest to see while there? What's a real good rib/BBQ joint? We're probably gonna hit San Antonio, Dallas is where we're flying in to, and maybe Houston and the gulf area.

Dallas is a nice place to live but I wouldn't want to visit there.  You might want to visit Fort Worth, aka Cowtown, it has more of the Old West charm - Dallas is just a typical big city of concrete and glass.

So I'd skip Dallas - it's just not what you'd call a tourist friendly city.  San Antonio has the River Walk and of course the Alamo (check out the basement).  And if you have kids there's the zoo and Fiesta Texas, but I'd suggest you spend more of your time in the Texas Hill Country (it's very green and not flat and boring like most parts of Texas).   Hill Country is between Austin and San Antonio (i.e. Fredericksburg)   And New Braunfels has a unique natural water park called Schlitterbahn.  Both towns have German influences - festivals and beer gardens.

If you're into really rugged landscapes you could head further west to the Chihuahuan Desert to Big Bend State Park on the Rio Grande.  Great camping and they have hotels.  If you camp watch out for the herds of roaming Javelinas - they can be pests if they smell food.

I've never cared much for Houston, but there's the NASA Space Center and Galveston Island is not too far away.  A much better quality beach is further south near Mexico call South Padre Island.  Probably too far for you to drive.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 09, 2012, 12:14:43 pm
If you camp watch out for the herds of roaming Javelinas - they can be pests if they smell food.

Javelinas...  I was just watching a Food Network show a couple weeks ago where the guy was with a crew of locals down there who hunted one those things down and grilled it up.  That is one ugly critter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 09, 2012, 01:52:29 pm

Tommie Harris actually had a pretty decent season last year with the Chargers.  The problem with a guy that only needs to give you X amount of snaps works well when everyone is healthy.  But what if we have a couple injuries?   You can't count on Tommie to step up and start a few games.

If we can find a decent #4 guy (someone younger and healthier)  I would not object to signing Harris as the #5 guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 09, 2012, 02:10:10 pm
I guess if you brought Tommie in as the #4 you could still stash a young kid on the Practice Squad...  and then if Tommie gets hurt a few games in or is just totally failing to get the job done, you IR (or cut) Tommie and bring up the PS squad guy for the rest of the season.  And maybe the PS kid learns a thing or two from Tommie (although Tommie's success was always more about his natural ability than technique so not sure how valuable he'd be as a mentor to a guy who doesn't have the physical skills Tommie had in his prime). 

Still doesn't feel to me like it's worth it, though.  Tommie has one year left at best and I wouldn't even bet on that.  Plus then you're getting back into the whole thing where he's not practicing during the week, etc., and that doesn't set a very good tone for all the young guys we've brought in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 09, 2012, 03:28:24 pm
Quote
and of course the Alamo (check out the basement).
lol

http://youtu.be/cYfjq3ZYZbA  (http://youtu.be/cYfjq3ZYZbA) and then... http://youtu.be/dwzbEMPba24  (http://youtu.be/dwzbEMPba24)

Thanks for the info, Dallas!

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 09, 2012, 06:15:23 pm
Frey has been signed.

Interesting that the offensive and ST guys got done first and its just the defensive picks left. I wonder if it was planned that way or just  how it worked out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on May 09, 2012, 06:59:44 pm
Sportster - Spent several winter vacations at Galveston Island.  It's worth a visit.  Lots of good seafood places there and I remember some good Chinese restaurants.  If you arrive from the northeast there is a nice ferry ride to the Island.  About 30 miles to Houston.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 09, 2012, 07:20:26 pm
lol

http://youtu.be/cYfjq3ZYZbA  (http://youtu.be/cYfjq3ZYZbA) and then... http://youtu.be/dwzbEMPba24  (http://youtu.be/dwzbEMPba24)

Thanks for the info, Dallas!



In New Braunfels you can ride the the river on tubes, everyone does it. Also, Gruene is right around the corner. Anyone and everyone that's done music through Texas has played Gruene hall. Do the river walk, it's ok, but if you go To San Antonio, everyone does the river walk..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 09, 2012, 07:57:19 pm
Sporty I also went to Galveston Island. When I went there there was a place called Moody Gardens that was quite interesting to visit.

From following up on the place to see if it still exists I find it has been expanded to be a theme park with multi attractions. When I was there it was just like a greenhouse with plants. I was wondering if the cane they had down there had destroyed it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on May 09, 2012, 10:23:29 pm
http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/bears-talk/post/Bowens-Breakdown-Marshalls-impact-on-Bea?blockID=704452&feedID=10330
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 09, 2012, 11:20:23 pm
A GERMAN area in TEXAS?! Oh I'm gonna LOVE this! Probably come back 10lbs heavier. Think I'm gonna like Texas.....German food AND BBQ! I might not wanna come back home....


Marshall's presence is gonna give D Coord's fits. If Tice works this right, Marshall's gonna have a record year, Forte could have a record year. About the only hope a Defense is gonna have is to blitz the heck out of Cut hoping the line gives up sacks like crazy. That would be the way I'd approach it. Really depends though. Do I have a OLB that can cover those slant routes that are gonna be there all day long? How good is my corner? If the Dline can get any pressure on Cut, then a D could have some success against us. Otherwise our O is gonna have a FUN year.....can't wait to see it....

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 09, 2012, 11:43:36 pm
German food AND BBQ! I might not wanna come back home....

Just hope we don't have a June like we had last summer or you could be spending all your time floating down the Guadalupe in an inner tube.


As for Marshall, we're all excited about him coming to the Bears.  But another guy, probably two, will have to step up.  Can Jeffery earn that role?  Can Bennett take on a bigger role than he has in the past?  Whose left?  Hester.

Can Kellen Davis can catch 40 balls?  If nobody steps up maybe we just have to depend on Forte to pick up the slack.


Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 10, 2012, 08:02:19 am
Speaking of Jeffery:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/10/alshon-jeffery-prioritizes-working-out-over-nfl-rookie-premiere/

I am liking this kid a lot. If he would have come out after his breakout sophomore season he was likely a high 1st round pick as he was as well regarded as other SEC studs like Julio Jones and AJ Green who went Top 10.  His "disappointing" season last year and weight gain cost him a lot of draft stock but he seems to be dead serious about getting back to top form and making some teams very sorry they didn't draft him.

On top of that, with Cutler, Marshall and Bennett as veteran leadership, Jeremy Bates' consultation, Emery's emphasis on conditioning -- and the fact that Jeffery won't have to be "the guy" from Day One -- I think the Bears represent an ideal environment for him to succeed.  Which is nice to be able to say about the Bears for once.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on May 10, 2012, 08:05:39 am
Here's hoping he's a beast when he gets to play- Look out NFC Central.... er I mean North :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on May 10, 2012, 08:08:43 am
Breaking down defensive tackle Trey Lewis (http://chicagofootballtalk.com/blog/breaking-down-defensive-tackle-trey-lewis) (this is a fan site, but he's pretty thorough)

With the Chicago Bears still needing to fill a void at defensive tackle, the latest report by Brad Biggs has them bringing in former Atlanta Falcons 6th round draft pick Trey Lewis for a workout this week.  Of course, I had to take a look at his most recent game, 2010 versus the Pittsburgh Steelers, in order to get a feel for his current level of play.  In addition to the breakdown, I'd like to share with you some of my findings regarding the events that eventually led to his release from the Atlanta Falcons.  There's only so much information you can gather from Wikipedia, which are the same facts that are being recycled by most people who are regurgitating this latest report by Brad Biggs.  To simply say that Lewis was released because of his injury history oversimplifies all of the factors in the equation.

Footballoutsiders.com on Bears OL (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2012/word-muth-scouting-bears)

This week I decided to focus on the Bears offensive line. The reason is simple: They've been ripped for not selecting an offensive lineman in the draft this year, and I wanted to see if the line was that big of a problem. Anyone who has watched the Bears play the past few years would certainly think so, but as we all know, watching games on TV can often be misleading. So, I wanted to do a closer examination and judge for myself. After watching their Week 17 game against the Vikings I can safely say that everyone was right. The Bears have a huge problem up front. duh
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 10, 2012, 08:41:32 am
Good read on Trey Lewis.  Sounds like a guy who could be Tommie Harris Lite when healthy, but just hasn't been able to keep his body together and has lost a lot of playing time as a result.

I think he certainly would be a safer risk than bringing Tommie back because he still may have some upside, which can't be said about Tommie.

Still scratching my head why we let Okoye go.  Young, athletic, did well in spot duty and a good fit for our system.  It must have been personality conflict with the coaches and/or Emery.   Or, Emery just wanted to purge the roster of Angelo signings (not necessarily a bad goal), and Okoye being a FA made it an easy decision.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 10, 2012, 09:32:57 am
Yeah but with his injury history, how long will he last till he is injured again. Will he even survive training camp?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 10, 2012, 09:37:16 am
I suppose he's used up his practice squad eligibility by now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on May 10, 2012, 09:41:57 am
In New Braunfels you can ride the the river on tubes, everyone does it. Also, Gruene is right around the corner. Anyone and everyone that's done music through Texas has played Gruene hall. Do the river walk, it's ok, but if you go To San Antonio, everyone does the river walk..

This...highly recommend all of this...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 10, 2012, 09:44:39 am
Interesting:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-excornerback-joseph-set-to-rejoin-bears-front-office-20120510,0,1268139.story

Can't say I've been overwhelmed by the Dolphins personnel moves the past few years, but, whatever.

OTOH, to the extent Joseph was involved in getting us Brandon Marshall for a bargain price, maybe it's a little quid pro quo.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 10, 2012, 09:51:43 am
Sports- I cannot begin to describe just how hot Texas is.  The heat in the summer approaches the surface of the sun.  Everything is done at night when it drops below 100. I'm not kidding.  Last year Texas has an incomprehensible amount of days over 100. Its the midwest winter in reverse.  You stay indoors in the summer, and **** about the electric bills and water bills.  Sorry, not impressed with it at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: rjzebra on May 10, 2012, 10:37:36 am
46..........Don't mess with TEXAS!   Or as I should say.....If you aint Texan, you aint ****!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 10, 2012, 10:38:23 am
Last summer was uncommonly hot, but I would recommend not visiting from mid-July through mid-September, plus or minus a couple weeks.

In Illinois I would get depressed during the summer when the weekend would finally come and the clouds and rain would roll in.   Summers in Texas - its now just the opposite.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 10, 2012, 11:00:58 am
RJZ- My neighbor in Spring Hill is moving back, Plano, I should just shoot him in the head now to save his future misery. Actually he's a good egg, he and the mrs. are moving back to help the parents. Rare. He's a 'boys fan of course, and to be honest they said they missed it.  Fantastic sums of money in Dallas, but I just don't have the desire to live on what used to be the bottom of a sea bed.  My visits to family unfortunately were usually for funerals, I'm sure that has something to do with how I feel.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on May 10, 2012, 11:06:42 am
When I was job hunting - 2 states I refused to consider were CA and TX
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 10, 2012, 11:11:20 am
I think I could live in Texas if the money was good enough.

California, NFW.  Same for Florida.  I wouldn't want to live in Illinois anymore either, and I'm glad I got out when I did.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 10, 2012, 12:52:18 pm
Last summer was uncommonly hot, but I would recommend not visiting from mid-July through mid-September, plus or minus a couple weeks.

In Illinois I would get depressed during the summer when the weekend would finally come and the clouds and rain would roll in.   Summers in Texas - its now just the opposite.

Great...company meeting in Houston in August...guess I'll just plan on sweating. Of course, not too much different than Florida in August.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 10, 2012, 12:59:29 pm
North Texas can be miserable for a couple months out of the year but the rest of the year it is pretty mild and really conducive to a lot of outdoor activities like camping and sports.  I know what the weather is like back in Illinois as I still have family there and visit frequently, but I wouldn't trade the weather there from November through March.   If I miss the snow I go to Colorado.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 10, 2012, 01:02:54 pm
Great...company meeting in Houston in August...guess I'll just plan on sweating. Of course, not too much different than Florida in August.

Is your company meeting going to be outside during the day?   You'll go from A/C hotel to your A/C rental car to your A/C meetings.  I think you'll survive.

Yeah, Houston is a lot like Florida..hot and muggy...but no ocean breezes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 10, 2012, 01:09:02 pm
I've never been able to figure out how central Texas can be so humid in the summer when there's no large bodies of water anywhere close.

Houston's on the Gulf so I get that, but places like Dallas...  what's up with that?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 10, 2012, 01:39:49 pm

Humidity is relative...Dallas is less humid than Houston or along the Atlantic states but appears more humid than other parts of the country.  And Dallas may seem more humid than other parts of the country when it actually might be about the same but increased temperatures may just add to the misery factory.  I dunno.

One thing about Dallas is that the weather changes rapidly - except during those summer days July thru September when everyday is "GroundHog's Day"...."deja vu all over again".

So I guess all the rookies are reporting tomorrow...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 10, 2012, 02:11:46 pm
Here's hoping they don't sustain injuries opening thier new lockers.  Or playbooks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 10, 2012, 02:17:30 pm
Here's hoping they don't sustain injuries opening thier new lockers.  Or playbooks.

Pretty sure that at least the offensive playbook this year will be quite a bit less hefty than it was the last couple.

That's a good thing.  Fewer plays...  but much better execution of the plays that are called...  will be the recipe for success IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 10, 2012, 04:59:57 pm
WTF?

(This pertains directly to the Alshon Jeffery story reported this morning)

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/10/players-cant-skip-rookie-premiere-to-work-out-at-team-facilities/

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 10, 2012, 05:11:06 pm
Wait a minute. If mini camp starts tomorrow, tomorrow is the 11th and not the 17th
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 11, 2012, 03:19:34 am
I've been to Fla in August quite a few times, I think I'll survive Tx. Couple of the times in Fla I thought I was gonna die, it was so incredibly hot. They had a Drum Corps championship there in the Orange Bowl one year and I thought I'd melt in my seat. It was H O T and H U M I D! Wow, that was one miserable show. Back in 96'....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 11, 2012, 07:34:08 am
Now we can all rest easy:

Former first-round draft pick John McCargo is heading to Chicago.
 
McCargo, a defensive tackle who was taken by the Bills with the 26th overall pick in the 2006 NFL draft, has agreed to a one-year contract with the Bears, Brad Biggs of the Chicago Tribune reports.
 
Although McCargo lasted five seasons in Buffalo, he was generally considered a disappointment as a first-round pick, starting just one game in Buffalo. McCargo signed with Tampa Bay last season and was released by the Buccaneers last week.
 
The Bears, who have been trying to add defensive tackle depth, will also sign DeMario Pressley, who played one game at defensive tackle for the Panthers last season. McCargo and Pressley will compete for a roster spot to join a defensive tackle rotation in Chicago that includes Henry Melton, Matt Toeaina and Stephen Paea.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 08:22:48 am
I Wikipedia'd McCargo and while he was drafted in the 1st round by the Bills, it was a surprise he went that high.  He was considered a low-2nd to mid-3rd round pick.

Still, the signing squares with Emery's M.O. in these situations...  guys who are in their prime (26-27 yrs old), were relatively highly drafted and for whatever reason have underperformed up till now and are running out of opportunities to turn their career around.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 11, 2012, 08:36:00 am
So Marinelli has been given the task of trying to motivate and get them to play solid football. Woo Hoo
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 11, 2012, 08:44:39 am

If my memory serves me correctly the Bears had the pick that the Bills used to draft McCargo.  I think he was a Juaron pick when he was with the Bills.  Off to Ourlads...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 11, 2012, 08:48:52 am
It was the 2006 draft.  Bears gave up the 26th to the Bills.  In return we dropped down to the 2nd round (#42) and took Daniele Manning....and picked up a 3rd (Dusty Dvorcek).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 08:51:37 am
Even though Manning never fully panned out for us and Dvoracek was pretty much a total bust, I think we still came out ahead on that deal.

McCargo has done a whole lot of nothing pretty much his whole career.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 08:52:16 am
Rookie Mini-Camp starts today.  Hope there's some coverage to be found later today.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 09:20:17 am
Looks like we are back to getting small at DE.  McLellin, and now this guy:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-add-three-players-20120511,0,2359291.story

Either that, or Emery is starting to stockpile OLBs for our switch to a 3-4 defense next year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 09:51:30 am
Good article with the backstory on McLellin.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/12430291-606/shea-mcclellin-grew-up-on-a-farm-in-idaho-but-never-lost-sight-of-his.html

His bio-dad sounds like a total POS but his grandparents (who raised him) are solid gold.  Sounds like he's gonna be sharing the wealth with them and I can't think of anyone more deserving.  For their sake (and his) I hope he's a stud in the league for the next decade or more.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on May 11, 2012, 10:19:32 am
Can Mike Tice Bring the Bears that Viking Magic? (http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2012/5/10/3011909/can-mike-tice-bring-the-bears-that-viking-magic#storyjump)

Say what you will about the somewhat troubled tenure of Mike Tice as the Vikings' head coach, but he and offensive coordinator Scott Linehan had a three-year run of offensive dominance. In 2002, the Vikings led the NFL in rushing, and by 2003, they led the league in total offense. They stayed equally hot in 2004, riding their fourth-ranked offense into the playoffs and then embarrassing Brett Favre in the Wild Card to the tune of 31-17. While we don't have Favre to kick around any more, nothing would please Bears fans more than Mike Tice once again taking it to Green Bay. Flip below the fold to see the strange similarities between the Vikings of yore with the Bears of today. Trust me, you don't want to miss this cruise ship!

------------------

I would change the #2 WR comparison to Jeffrey v. Burleson.  On paper, Jeffrey is way better.

I wouldn't say that Marshall has the elite speed that Moss had.

Forte/Bush > Bennett/Moe Williams.  Not even close.

Evan Rodriguez mirrors Jermaine Wiggins size wise.  My guess is that ERod ends up with more catches in this system than Kellen.  Kellen will be the #3 red zone go up and get it option and has more TDs
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 10:27:35 am
Good article and an even better point raised by one of the commentators, namely, that the comparison omitted any discussion of the OL.

Those OLs during the Tice HC years with the Vikings were some Top 5 units comprising multiple Pro Bowlers. Guys like Bryant McKinnie (when he was still trying), David Dixon (one of the most dominating run blockers I have ever seen), and Matt Birk. I don't see that level of across-the-board talent on the current Bears OL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 11:04:32 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-spt-0511-chicago-bears-mccargo-pressley,0,5604133.story

I'm researching this parade of has-beens and never-weres that we're bringing in for DT depth and thinking it would have been a lot less hassle to just re-up Okoye.

Can't see any of these reclamation projects giving us anything more on the field than Okoye did, plus he's younger and has a cleaner medical history. 

Letting Okoye walk is an Emery move I continue struggling to "get".  It almost feels like he figured he could replace Okoye in the draft, but then the board didn't fall his way and now he's scrambling to cover.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 11, 2012, 11:44:36 am
Again, I hope he knows these guys.  Rummaging through the chum again, it seems. Do all teams do that? As far as the OL goes, is Tice that good to make these people better? Granted those stupid 7 step drops have to help, but wouldn't just an eeensy upgrade boost moral? It would for me. The DL? erhmmm.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 11:55:35 am
I'm not surprised Emery is picking through the trash for DT depth (since we have next to nothing and didn't draft anyone)...  but I am surprised he's doing it now.

In just a couple more weeks (June 1) there will be some cuts and then there will be more during teams' training camps and I have to think some of those guys can bring more to the table than the ones he's been bringing in.  But he's the pro, so I assume he knows what he's doing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 11, 2012, 12:33:47 pm
It doesnt cost anything to look. Thats what I think he is doing. You can bring 90 to camp. The big question I have is will that June cut plus the salary we have already allocated push us ofver the cap? We may be getting close right now
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on May 11, 2012, 12:51:20 pm
McClellin is official...4 year deal with option...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 11, 2012, 12:54:25 pm
I'm researching this parade of has-beens and never-weres that we're bringing in for DT depth and thinking it would have been a lot less hassle to just re-up Okoye.

If you look at Tampa Bay you see a bunch of no names, aside from Gerald McCoy, at DT.  Perhaps Okoye figured he could be a starter there and put up some big numbers and get a big long term contract somewhere.  If he remained with the Bears he would probably be relegated to #3 or possibly #4 DT behind draft pick Paeae.   Who knows, the Bears might even have offered him more coin.

The big question I have is will that June cut plus the salary we have already allocated push us ofver the cap?

If were talking about the money we've allocated to these reclamation projects, the answer is no.  The cap only takes into account salaries that are allocated to players on the roster...and only the top 50 something.    If these guys are cut then they are not paid any salary but there might be some sort of minimal signing bonus which would count against the cap. 

I'm sure Emery will be putting and pulling DTs off the street between now and the start of the season.

Also read that McCargo and Pressley were teammates at NC state.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 01:01:30 pm
Good deal:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/11/bears-sign-first-round-pick-shea-mcclellin/

Hardin's the only one left.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 11, 2012, 01:40:11 pm
I'm hoping Tice brings that old magic to the O that he had with the Vikes. That would be a very fun season(s) to watch! We've got some nice weapons onboard now, so if he can get her started, watch out!! We may not NEED a D, lol.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 01:48:29 pm
Oh we need a D, alright.  Especially a pass D that's a lot better than they were last year.

I want our offense to be in a position where we pass because we want to, not cause we have to.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 11, 2012, 02:05:38 pm
Thanks for posting the signing guys.  I really hope this guy is another Hester where I started ranting about a wasted pick, JA is a jerk, the usual.....and then Hester started running, and running, and running. I'll take looking stupid any day of the week if that happens with this guy. I just want the damn team to win a superbowl again. This garbage of quarter century between championships is stupid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 02:17:54 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if our 2nd round pick (Jeffery) winds up playing more snaps this season than our 1st rounder (McClellin).

But I guess as long as they're both making an impact with whatever opportunities they're given, whatever.

I find myself being more excited/optimistic about Jeffery than I am about McClellin and maybe that's wrong but it is what it is.  The fewer snaps McClellin gets, the more the pressure is going to be on him to really deliver on the plays he's in there cause it's not very often that teams spend a Top 20 draft pick on a spot player.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 11, 2012, 02:48:14 pm

Productive wide receivers are a dime a dozen(...except on the Bears).  Productive DEs not so much.  Its going to be much harder for McClellin to deliver....its just the nature of the position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 02:56:40 pm
I've said this before, but I think whatever value McClellin brings in game situations he will at least double in practice by really giving our slow-footed OTs a workout.

Now maybe guys like Jared Allen, Dumervil, Von Miller and Clay Matthews won't completely blow up our OTs cause they'll have had some practice going against that type of player. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 03:00:21 pm
A guy from ESPNChicago is tweeting that the passing drills at minicamp are going well because the walk-on QBs are good throwers.  He says that hasn't always been the case at Bears mini-camps before.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 04:56:19 pm
Tribune is failing badly on minicamp coverage so if any of you are hooked into reports via Twitter or whatever, please post what you're hearing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 11, 2012, 05:07:41 pm
Cut-and-paste from Chicagobears.com:

Bears first-round draft pick Shea McClellin was relieved and excited to sign his first NFL contract Friday shortly before he participated in his first pro practice.

The 6-3, 260-pound defensive end from Boise State, who was selected by the Bears with the 19th overall pick in the draft, inked a four-year deal with a fifth-year option.

“It’s good to get it out of the way,” McClellin said as the Bears kicked off their three-day rookie minicamp at Halas Hall. “My agents did a great job getting it [done] before camp started. I trusted them to do everything and they did a good job.”

McClellin was a three-year starter at Boise State, where he recorded 130 tackles, 33 tackles-for-loss, 20½  sacks, five forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries in 49 games.

Although he played different positions in college, McClellin lined up exclusively at defensive end during Friday’s two-hour non-contact practice.

“That’s all he’ll be playing for us,” said coach Lovie Smith. “If you watched practice today, I don’t think you saw him pass-dropping or anything like that. He had his hand down in the dirt, trying to become a better pass rusher, and that’s what it’s all about. You have to be able to get pressure on the quarterback. We feel like we’ve gotten better with our pass rush by bringing him in.”

McClellin is the fifth draft pick to sign with the Bears, joining second-round receiver Alshon Jeffery, fourth-round tight end Evan Rodriguez, sixth-round cornerback Isaiah Frey and seventh-round cornerback Greg McCoy. The only remaining unsigned pick is third-round safety Brandon Hardin.

Alshon Jeffery exited late in practice with leg cramps, but not before impressing his new coaches.

“Guys do a lot of working out on their own, but it’s not like when you come here and work out,” Smith said when asked about the young receiver’s leg cramps.

“I really like what Alshon did earlier in practice, for most of the practice really. I didn’t see him drop a ball. He’s got great hands. He’s a big target. I really like the way he came in. He’s going to be a good football player for us.”

“I saw him make a few plays over in the one-on-ones,” added first-year offensive coordinator Mike Tice. “Back in the old days we called that picking peanuts; he was picking peanuts off some guys’ heads it looked like to me.

"I think he’s going to have the ability for us to make plays. You could tell he has some explosiveness about him. You could tell he has some ball skills. That’s why we drafted him so high. You could tell that he’s going to be a playmaker for the Bears in 2012 and hopefully for many years to come.”
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on May 11, 2012, 05:45:39 pm
Great!  Excited to see Cutler with some weapons and a normal offense tailored to his strengths.  And without the idiotic seven step drops.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 11, 2012, 09:16:56 pm
The big question I have is will that June cut plus the salary we have already allocated push us over the cap?

If were talking about the money we've allocated to these reclamation projects, the answer is no.  The cap only takes into account salaries that are allocated to players on the roster...and only the top 50 something.    If these guys are cut then they are not paid any salary but there might be some sort of minimal signing bonus which would count against the cap.

I am talking about if these guys make the team, not the 90 man roster 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on May 12, 2012, 06:07:52 am
Albert Haynesworth is unsigned...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 12, 2012, 08:07:15 am
Hardin is still unsigned because he got hurt going over to Halas Hall.  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 12, 2012, 08:26:49 am
Hardins at the minicamp so no biggie I guess, but I do wonder what's the holdup?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on May 12, 2012, 11:18:19 am
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8808

Tice talking about the offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 12, 2012, 01:45:41 pm
No mention of the OL in that article whatsoever. Interesting
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 12, 2012, 02:01:08 pm
I see Tice is looking for Ruby Tuesday ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 08:02:20 am
Another article previewing our offense, specifically Cutler's role.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0514-bears-pompei--20120514,0,4818462.column

Pretty exciting stuff and it could be the reason nobody on the Bears seems to think our OL will be a problem.  If Cutler is going to be running a lot anyway by design, the need for traditional pass blocking studs who can drop back and stonewall a pass rusher for 4 or 5 seconds diminishes considerably.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 08:18:56 am
Bye-bye Enderle.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-qb-blanchard-among-7-players-signed-by-bears-20120513,0,5396181.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 09:09:00 am
Good...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/14/brandon-marshall-not-likely-to-face-charges-for-nightclub-incident/

Haters gonna hate, but fact of the matter is this whole thing is a non-story and has been for some time already.  Let's move on already and focus on what he's gonna do ON the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 09:33:20 am
Wow...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-waive-three-to-clear-roster-space-20120514,0,3147503.story

OT Horn, OG Stephens and TE Smith cut.  Emery really is cleaning house and bringing his own guys in here.  Even on the OL.  Never saw Stephens play but I thought Levi Horn had some promise and it's not like we're exactly swimming in OT depth.  In fact I figured Horn had a decent chance to be active on game days as the 3rd OT this year.  As it is he won't even be going to veterans minicamp w/the Bears. 

Emery is reading from a different manual, no question. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 14, 2012, 10:18:11 am
I expect they are just shifting some chairs around right now. I expect we'll see a little more of this then they might bring some of the guys back later.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 10:49:25 am
That's what I'm thinking too.  Horn and Stephens are veteran players who have a chance to pick up with other teams (especially Horn) so maybe they were let go now with the understanding that if they didn't find employment elsewhere they'd be brought back later.

As for Smith... well, we were at 6 or 7 TEs by my last count, and one of the 7 tryout guys we signed was a TE too so something had to give at that position.  Again, he may have been the TE out of all of them that they thought had the best chance to get signed somewhere else.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 14, 2012, 12:38:31 pm

The Bears have to get to a number for a roster and clearly saw that there existing players, rookies, undrafted FAs and walk ons and more potential to make the team then the 3 guys that cut.  Giving them a chance to catch on with another team is a courtesy after you decide the player doesn't have much of a chance of helping you.  Plus there are only so many snaps that you can give the back ups so its not fair to make a guy sit out just being an insurance policy in case someone gets hurt.

At OT, it tells me they really like the potential of the rookie FA James Brown and the other guy that walked on over Horn.  As for the Stephens guy we have about 8 guards ahead of him already pus the walk on.  At TE they already have Kyle Adams battling it out with the rookie Hernandez for the #3 spot and again they wanted to get a look at the walk on too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 12:49:40 pm
At OT, it tells me they really like the potential of the rookie FA James Brown and the other guy that walked on over Horn. 

That was my thought too.  It's pretty incredible to consider that what Emery is basically saying is, "yeah I know Levi Horn was on the practice squad the last couple of years and Tice said some good things about him...  but I've found an UDFA and a rookie camp walk-on who are better and I already know that they're better after just one weekend of minicamp."

I mean...  wow, that is confidence bordering on hubris.  But one thing anybody who knows Emery has said is that he is decisive and he doesn't waste time carrying out decisions once he's arrived at them. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 12:56:20 pm
Just found this on Chicagobears.com:

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8811

They brought in a TE who's...  get this...  6'10 and 290 lbs.  Played college ball at Army and was an infantry platoon leader in Afghanistan.

Hard to know how far football will take him, and very likely it was his first and last weekend as a Bear...  but it's an interesting read. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 01:15:10 pm
Apparent confirmation of something many of us here had suspected for awhile...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-signs-pointing-back-to-tackle-for-bears-williams-20120514,0,7870245.story

Feels like a pretty big vote of no-confidence in Webb or at the least, a major hedge. 

Just whatever they do, PLEASE don't start Edwin Williams at LG.  That guy was brutal last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 14, 2012, 01:30:17 pm
Heard this on the SCORE that the reason that Brown went undrafted was his pot usage.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 01:37:34 pm
So that makes me wonder what Emery's stance on that whole thing is.  I thought he'd be hard-core against that kind of thing but maybe that only applies for draft picks?

I know that pot usage is pretty common in the NFL anymore but after the whole Sam Hurd thing I'd think Halas Hall wants to put as much distance from anything drug-related as possible.   At the minimum, if Brown is a known pot user then you can bet he'll be targeted by the league for testing early and often.  Not a real benefit to find a diamond in the rough if that diamond winds up being suspended by the league when you need him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 14, 2012, 02:09:21 pm
I don't mind taking a flier on a lower round pick or an UDFA who has smoked a little weed.
I don't want to risk an early pick on a guy who has an issue though.
Changing cities and friends a lot of times is all it takes to help a guy out of that stuff and re-focus.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 02:18:08 pm
True...  weed is not addictive so the argument could be made that the player who lights one up every now and then may actually be a safer risk than a player who uses alcohol or painkillers but is addicted to them.

The problem of course being that the league views weed very differently than they view alcohol and those views are reflected in their suspension policies.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 14, 2012, 03:43:27 pm
Anyone who has driven to Panama City Fla. usually drives through Troy Ala. Good team, and if the kid can play, sign him.  I see no difference between weed and booze.  Sustance abuse regardless.  I'm not going to pontificate about either one. I use one (sometimes to excess) and not the other.  But its still drug usage regardless.  If he gets busted, cut him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 14, 2012, 03:49:18 pm
True...  weed is not addictive so the argument could be made that the player who lights one up every now and then may actually be a safer risk than a player who uses alcohol or painkillers but is addicted to them.

The problem of course being that the league views weed very differently than they view alcohol and those views are reflected in their suspension policies.

I would like the league to butt out of any issues with drugs unless it's performance enhancing drugs. Let the teams deal with the rest...or not deal with it as they so choose.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 14, 2012, 04:59:29 pm

Emery knew about the pot usage during the draft - just like every team in the NFL.  YET he still signed the kid who was projected to go in the 3rd round.

Will he be the next Rashaan Salaam?  Hopefully not. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 14, 2012, 05:04:34 pm
Feels like a pretty big vote of no-confidence in Webb or at the least, a major hedge.

You have to create competition at every position and Webb knows that.  Williams at OT gives them not only insurance at LT but RT too since Carimi is still not cleared to practice in his underwear.

If Williams can't beat out Webb or Carimi it might hurt him in his battle to win back his LG position too.  Plus he's in the final year of his contract.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 14, 2012, 05:25:43 pm
I think the Bears are hilarious. I am not saying Horn is stupendous or was starting material, but cutting Horn made no sense at this time. They are already short-handed at OT, so it makes sense to cut the best backup you have for a couple of UDFLs. I would have kept Horn as long as it didnt cost the team any money. They have 90 slots available for training camp. OTOH reports had him on the practice squad for 2 years which I believe to be max allowed and if he hadnt made the roster in 2 years he sure must not have enough to make the roster. Who knows maybe he came to camp in bad shape and they decided enough is enough.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 14, 2012, 06:07:05 pm
Good point on the 2 yr practice squad limitation. If they already knew he wasn't gonna make the active roster it'd be better for all parties if he were cut sooner than later.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 14, 2012, 08:55:34 pm
Thats my take. He came to rookie/FA camp and was promptly cut. That might be a little simplistic but sometimes the answer is really simple.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 07:55:30 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0515-bears-cutler-chicago--20120515,0,4305599.story


As he gushed over the possibility of a dynamic offense, Bears quarterback Jay Cutler tempered his enthusiasm slightly when it came to the offensive line.

"The offensive line is definitely going to be a concern,'' Cutler said Monday, "and seeing where those guys fit in and seeing what five we go with. You know, if Gabe (Carimi) comes back, if J'Marcus (Webb) pans out (and) Chris Williams, where we're going to put him … there are some question marks there. Until we really get that resolved, get our front five settled, we've got some work to do on the offense.''
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 07:58:01 am
Thats my take. He came to rookie/FA camp and was promptly cut. That might be a little simplistic but sometimes the answer is really simple.

Except that Horn, Stephens and Smith are all veterans so they did not participate in last weekend's rookie minicamp (which was limited to this year's draft picks, UDFAs and walk-ons)

In other words those three guys were cut based on what rookies at their positions did this last weekend...  not anything they themselves did (or didn't do). 

As far as Cutler calling out the OL...  good.  I'm glad he did it.  I'm pretty sure every guy on that unit already knows the microscope is going to be on them this year, but when it comes from the mouth of your franchise QB that carries extra weight.  And it's not like he's saying anything that any reasonably aware Bears fan or media person (outside the usual Chicago homers) hasn't been saying all offseason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 08:11:15 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0515-bears-chris-williams--20120515,0,359666.story


The latest series of moves by the Bears leaves one spot remaining on the 90-man roster, and unless the team fills it with a veteran offensive tackle, the likely option will be to move Chris Williams back to his original position.

The 14th pick in the 2008 draft, Williams has made 20 starts the last two seasons at left guard — missing time in 2010 with a pulled hamstring and the final seven games last season with a wrist injury. But with last year's top pick Gabe Carimi still recovering from December surgery on his right knee, and with J'Marcus Webb the only other veteran, it appears the club has no alternative.

Williams has worked at tackle during the voluntary offseason program, according to one teammate, so the move already could be in the works. The club lists him at guard and tackle. On Monday, the Bears waived Levi Horn, a tackle who was on the practice squad the last two seasons, along with guard Reggie Stephens and tight end Andre Smith. Those cuts made room for the seven undrafted free agents signed after successful tryouts in rookie minicamp over the weekend.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 08:14:28 am
I read in a Tribune article yesterday that Chris Williams has only started 2 games at LT for the Bears.

I recall him playing more games at LT than that.  I also recall him doing pretty poorly there outside of the one game vs. the Vikings when he stonewalled Jared Allen. 

But really, anyone who's been watching Emery's roster moves this offseason had to see this coming.  The fact that we kept acquiring OGs when our roster already had OGs outnumbering OTs by more than 2-to-1 was a pretty clear tipoff that they were trying to find a true LG so they could move Williams back outside.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 08:17:56 am
I just get the the impression the Bears really just dont get the importance of having a quality offensive line, like any big fat guy can handle the job. Why any 7th rounder or UDFA can do the job. And it isnt just Angelo, it appears the attitude is far above that. It just baffles me
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 08:22:34 am
I heard of the Williams to LT in a blurb by Biggs in January.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 08:34:32 am
I have this deep down feeling that the Bears know some OT they like is going to get cut come June 1st and they are holding this roster spot for just such a player.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 08:55:36 am
I have this deep down feeling that the Bears know some OT they like is going to get cut come June 1st and they are holding this roster spot for just such a player.

Could be.  Emery seems to be a lot more "connected" around the league than Angelo ever was, so he may have the inside skinny on something of that nature. 

The other piece of the equation then, of course, would be making sure we have enough room under the cap to sign that player should he become available.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 09:07:36 am
I'm also getting the bad feeling that Carimi's recovery is not happening as quickly as we have been led to believe.  The Bears are notorious for sugarcoating or downright lying about player injuries and recovery timelines, and it wouldn't surprise me if Carimi doesn't participate in any OTAs before training camp, and even then is limited in his participation. Which could significantly impact how quickly the new offense can be installed from a blocking schemes perspective. 

So...  a guy who gets hurt easily, and is a slow healer...  not a good combination.  Especially when that guy is supposed to be a bookend on your new and improved OL.  Not saying Carimi's that guy or that he's a bust because of it, but indications so far would point in that direction.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 15, 2012, 09:21:49 am
I read in a Tribune article yesterday that Chris Williams has only started 2 games at LT for the Bears.

He did in 2010 after he got taken out of the Dallas game, but I believe he played some LT the year before when they put him in for Orlando Pace.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 09:29:21 am
That's probably the deal then.  He's played more than 2 games at LT but only started there for 2.

All I know is it would sure be nice to have an OL with 5 guys, who are all capable of playing their positions at an NFL level, and who can all stay healthy.  It has literally been years since the Bears had an OL with any sort of continuity and where at least a couple of guys weren't playing out of position. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 15, 2012, 09:35:54 am
So...  a guy who gets hurt easily, and is a slow healer...  not a good combination.  Especially when that guy is supposed to be a bookend on your new and improved OL.  Not saying Carimi's that guy or that he's a bust because of it, but indications so far would point in that direction.


It's too early to tell.  Looking at his collegiate career - he missed 3 games (in a row) his sophomore year  due to a knee injury but started every game over 4 years.

Season    GP/GS
2007    13/13
2008    10/10
2009    13/13
2010    13/13
Totals    49/49

If you saw the New Orleans game where his leg got caught from behind under a fallen teammate you'd expect him to be out for some time.

But I agree that the Bears often seem to be overly optimistic in their assessment of injuries.  I'm not getting my hopes up for a Johnny Knox return late in the season.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 09:45:49 am
But I agree that the Bears often seem to be overly optimistic in their assessment of injuries.

Yup. Specifically with Carimi I remember the initial prognosis was 2-4 weeks, then they revised it to 4-6 weeks and next thing you know he's on IR and Lance Louis is playing out of position at RT for the rest of the year.

My opinion on the Bears medical and training staffs is well known, and it's not a good one.  I hope Emery is raising the bar on those clowns just like he seems to be doing in other areas of the organization but unfortunately those areas may be under Phillips' jurisdiction and not Emery's.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 15, 2012, 09:52:24 am
That's probably the deal then.  He's played more than 2 games at LT but only started there for

Orlando pace was benched for the last 4 or 5 games of the season in 2009 and Chris Williams played there in his place.  He actually did quite well there.

Then in 2010 preseason Williams was consistently getting whipped but still won the starting job.  He continued his dreadful play at LT in the Bears opening games until he got injured in the Dallas game and later moved to LG.

I'm all for giving him a 2nd shot at the LT job - hopefully he's done some arm stretching exercises in the off season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 09:59:15 am
Orlando Pace was benched for the last 4 or 5 games of the season in 2009 and Chris Williams played there in his place.  He actually did quite well there.

Maybe I'm off by a year but this would have been the last year of the Ron Turner offense, correct?

Then in 2010 preseason Williams was consistently getting whipped but still won the starting job.  He continued his dreadful play at LT in the Bears opening games until he got injured in the Dallas game and later moved to LG.

And this would have been the first year of the Martz regime...  which has been murderous on pretty much every LT that wasn't a future Hall of Famer.   

So, not making excuses for Chris Williams, but maybe the thinking is that with the experience he's acquired -- combined with a more OL-friendly offense -- perhaps he is finally in position to succeed at the position he was originally drafted to play. 

Unfortunately, even if he wins the starting LT spot and excels, you never know how many games you'll get out of him there before he gets hurt again.  And there's also the fact that I believe this is the final year of his rookie contract.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 10:10:36 am
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/12534041-606/matt-fortes-contract-situation-doesnt-worry-jay-cutler.html

Bears quarterback Jay Cutler understands why running back Matt Forte isn’t participating in offseason workouts.
 
Forte is seeking a long-term deal instead of the one-year, $7.7 million franchise tender for 2012.
 
But Cutler expects Forte to rejoin the team by Week 1.
 
“Last time I saw him, he said he was lonely. I get it,” Cutler said. “Everyone was gone last year, with the lockout, and you do get that itch to get back in the office and see guys and work out. But Matt’s got to do what he’s got to do for him. Maybe they get a deal, maybe they don’t. But at the end of the day, we’ll have him the first game. I rest easy at night knowing that Matt is a true professional and he’s going to come in and he’s not going to miss a beat.”
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 10:32:01 am
I'm also getting the bad feeling that Carimi's recovery is not happening as quickly as we have been led to believe.  The Bears are notorious for sugarcoating or downright lying about player injuries and recovery timelines, and it wouldn't surprise me if Carimi doesn't participate in any OTAs before training camp, and even then is limited in his participation. Which could significantly impact how quickly the new offense can be installed from a blocking schemes perspective. 

So...  a guy who gets hurt easily, and is a slow healer...  not a good combination.  Especially when that guy is supposed to be a bookend on your new and improved OL.  Not saying Carimi's that guy or that he's a bust because of it, but indications so far would point in that direction.

Carimi's injury comeback definitely seems to be questionable for sure. We just could see Brown beginning the season at RT. I think there is adequate cause for concern here
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 10:34:10 am
Carimi's injury comeback definitely seems to be questionable for sure. We just could see Brown beginning the season at RT.

If Carimi's not good for the season opener, I think Webb would start at RT before Brown would. With Chris Williams at LT.

That would be a bad scenario any way you slice it, and would bring Emery in for some serious scrutiny considering Riley Reiff was on the board when we picked.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 15, 2012, 10:37:44 am
http://www.rantsports.com/redzonetalk/2012/05/14/bill-cowher-would-come-out-of-retirement-to-coach-the-chicago-bears/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 10:49:12 am
This is quite an informative article worth reading

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/12494229-606/bears-rookie-alshon-jeffery-makes-favorable-first-impression-on-mike-tice.html

In his opening practice at Bears rookie camp, second-round pick Alshon Jeffery was “picking peanuts,” according to offensive coordinator Mike Tice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 10:49:26 am
Interesting scenario and it mimics what was "reported" on some other site yesterday...  but nowhere in either article does it say that Cowher has expressed interest in coaching the Bears.

The writers are looking at the Bears and saying they seem like a good fit for a coach like Cowher...  but to infer from that that Cowher is just sitting there waiting for a call from Phillips to be the Bears next HC is ridiculous and irresponsible.  And even if that's the case, Cowher has too much respect for the fraternity of NFL HCs to undercut Lovie by coming out and saying as much. 

That being said, Lovie has been given everything he needs this offseason to produce...  right down to yet another freakishly athletic safety / special teams ace that he covets so highly (Danial Manning, anyone?).  Translation:  no playoffs, no Lovie next year.  It should be as simple as that.  And honestly, I would up the ante even further and say there had better be a playoff win in that equation. Backing into the last wildcard spot and then going 1-and-done isn't good enough, IMO.  Not with all the personnel upgrades we've made.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 15, 2012, 10:59:28 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-hardin-deal-puts-paid-to-bears-draft-class-20120515,0,5109994.story

hardin signs
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 11:52:22 am
That's good.  Hardin certainly looks the part of an impact player.  Hopefully his play matches his look and he can stay healthy.

Whoever is scouting the Western region for the Bears must really have Emery's ear, based on where several of our draft picks came from.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 15, 2012, 11:56:04 am
Glad to see that, thx for posting it.  OTOH, another d guy.  You know when the franchise qb is on tape with "questions" about the ol, shouldn't you listen? Raise that ole' level of confidence maybe a little? Rosenblum tears lovie up about it, not that it does any good, Unless something good is coming down the pike? That kid from Troy is starting to look like a godsend, drugs or no. This is so stupid. What is there to prove except Cutler keeps getting knocked down?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 12:02:39 pm
This is so stupid. What is there to prove except Cutler keeps getting knocked down?

I guess the only thing yet to prove is that when he gets knocked down he cant get up. It seems the Bears are waiting for that to happen
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 12:18:00 pm
Supposedly Cutler has had 5 concussions.

That's getting up there.  If he gets another one he's probably out 3 games minimum.  One more after that, and the league will shut him down for the season. Maybe longer. 

So yeah, this whole issue of protecting him is pretty damn serious.  There's a reason our new #2 QB is a mobile guy who's as big as a TE and can take a hit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 15, 2012, 05:27:32 pm
There's a reason our new #2 QB is a mobile guy who's as big as a TE and can take a hit.

When you put it that way, it seems to ring true.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 15, 2012, 05:41:33 pm
Its almost criminal they way they have avoided bringing in OLine talent to protect the most valuable piece to our O. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 15, 2012, 06:44:38 pm
Bottom line is that if Cutlers protection isn't dramatically improved this year from the get-go, we have no chance in hell of re-signing him. His body has already taken at least 5 normal years worth of abuse since he's been here.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 15, 2012, 07:18:43 pm
I just feel that with Cutler, Marshall, Jeffery and Forte, with Bates calling the plays, we really could have something special.  IF we had some half way decent OL play. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 16, 2012, 07:34:28 am
I find it odd that Emery, like Angelo, hasn't upgraded the O line. Tells me one thing, the coaching staff is telling the GM we don't need additional help..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 08:07:08 am
Tells me one thing, the coaching staff is telling the GM we don't need additional help..

Could be...  but a few days ago Tice said something in the press to the effect of, "well, if our GM felt we needed better O-Linemen he would have taken care of that in the draft."

In other words...  even though Emery and Tice both are on record as being OK with our OL personnel, neither of them appears willing to own the situation 100% and they're each still leaving themselves some wiggle room in case things don't turn out as well as expected up front.


Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 16, 2012, 10:34:03 am

In Cutler's last 5 games:  5 wins....5 sacks...just sayin'

I'm not saying J'Marcus Webb shouldn't have been upgraded....but with who?  Jonathon Martin?  He was a 2nd round pick.  The other tackles available, including Reiff, appeared to be RTs.  Who in free agency should we have signed?

Cutler aptly pointed out that there will be situations where he will need time to complete a long pass for a first down.  But how many sacks have we had over the last couple years caused by not only 7 step drops but drops where Cutler had protection and the likes of Hester and Roy Williams could not get any separation from the defense?

Bears are taking a gamble, no doubt, that Carimi will be healthy and that Webb with an offseason of work can take a huge step in his development at LT.   The benefit of this gamble was that they were able to address our pass rush and our receiving corps in the draft and free agency.  The risk is pressure from Cutler's backside.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on May 16, 2012, 10:57:33 am
Yep - every team fears the injury bug... having the ability to call audibles will help some
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 16, 2012, 10:59:50 am
I'm thinking that first and formost the coaches believe that a change from the Martz system will show that these guys are better than their stats show. Warner got beat up under the Martz system in St. Louis and that was with a future hall of fame tackle protecting his back. I also would not be surprised to see them pick up a vet after final cuts to hold a place until next years draft where they can draft a long term solution. This draft filled the other offensive holes and helped the D. Next year can be concentrated on the remaining holes. Our problems were much more than could be fixed in one draft or off season but much progress has been made.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 16, 2012, 11:02:28 am
We've got a franchise QB, and a damn good one. Our first priority should be keeping him upright. Do those 5 sacks tell the whole story? How many times was he knocked down? Our O line was second rate last season, it's as if we have a track star that we make wear flip flops during a track meet.

Who was available? I personally don't know, but then again, I'm not the GM of an NFL team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 11:03:51 am
Do those 5 sacks tell the whole story? How many times was he knocked down?

And/or how many potential sacks did he just barely escape due to his great pocket presence and mobility?

That being said... I honestly think the ability to audible at the line will be the single largest contributing factor to a dramatic improvement in our offense.

Yeah, finally having some NFL-caliber WRs is great and long overdue, but think about it.  The last two years Cutler had two choices when Martz sent in a play Cutler knew was doomed to fail.  1) Run the play, have it fail (and often times get hit in the process), or 2) Call a timeout and get yelled at by Martz and stared-down by Lovie.  Ridiculous. Talk about a morale killer if you're the QB or really anyone on the offense who knows what's happening on the field.

Now though, Cutler will be able to utilize his intelligence and game instincts (which by all accounts are superb) to get out of bad plays and into good ones.  This will come in especially handy against blitzing teams who just feasted on Cutler the last two years.  I'm not saying we should expect Peyton Manning style genius or results out of this new approach, but with Cutler given free reign to change things up at the line I do look for the frequency of what I call "disaster plays" (sack, 3rd down incompletion or INT) to go down dramatically.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 16, 2012, 11:06:40 am
I do agree about the receivers, or lack there of. The receivers were awful last season. Thanks god it sounds like the Hester experiment is over. If I were to look at a bright side, it would be that Hester has gotten some experience at WR and can be brought in to stretch the field when needed. I don't look for Knox to come back, and that's too bad as this could've been a breakout season for him. Knox is/was a football player, had great speed, but his routes were awful..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 16, 2012, 11:14:34 am
We've got a franchise QB, and a damn good one. Our first priority should be keeping him upright. Do those 5 sacks tell the whole story? How many times was he knocked down? Our O line was second rate last season, it's as if we have a track star that we make wear flip flops during a track meet.

I know much of the focus is on the whipping boy at LT and he had a rough year, no doubt.  But there was a lot going on with the rest of the line last season.  First round pick, Carimi, looked solid up until his injury.  They put our RG into his position who I don't recall ever played tackle in the NFL.  The vacant RG was filled in with a guy that pretty much played center his whole career (Spencer).  The center was played by a guy who played guard for pretty much his entire career (Garza).  The LG, where Williams played pretty well up until his injury, was filled in by a FA for about 5 games at the end of the season (Edwin Williams).

Injuries can make any team's o-line look second rate.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 16, 2012, 11:19:42 am
So you do agree our O line looked second rate? Are we banking on Carimi? I'm just surprised there wasn't more emphasis put on our O line this off season..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on May 16, 2012, 11:40:05 am
Or being able to signal your buddy Marshall for that bailout play after reading the defense
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 11:56:16 am
Precisely.  It got so frustrating watching blitzes just take our O apart the last couple of years.

Now I think we've got it set up where if a team blitzes us we can put a major hurtin' on em.  Which theoretically at least, should mean we'll see fewer blitzes across the board over time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 12:24:48 pm
I also would not be surprised to see them pick up a vet after final cuts to hold a place until next years draft where they can draft a long term solution.

If you're talking long-term solution at LT... good luck with that.  Hopefully we'll be drafting 25 or lower next April, and the viable LT candidates will be long gone by then.

Our best case scenario would be that the light comes on for either Webb or Chris Williams and one of those guys is our long-term solution.  Because I have a strong suspicion next year's draft will be weighted even more heavily toward defensive players than this year's was.  For sure if Lovie stays and even more certainly if he's let go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 16, 2012, 12:29:06 pm
I seriously doubt a long term solution at LOT from the draft next year either. We plugged a couple of holes on the defense but definitely not all of them and who knows Lovie and the Cover 2 might be gone by next draft
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 16, 2012, 12:31:09 pm
I wonder how healthy Marcus McNeil is about now.....

I think in theory if Martz had called a pass play one of the routes should be open no matter what the defense so there was no need to call an audible.

I think there were several problems with this...
1. the plays got in slow so Cutler could do very little pre-snap reads and know which route might be hot.
2. our WRs aren't that good at getting open so the hot guy might not beat his man.
3. our OL wasn't that good at blocking.


Hopefully we have solved the 1st two issues.
I also wonder how much of the OL problems was the play getting in late, they couldn't do any pre-snap reads and kind of have an idea of which guy to block and who might be blitzing and from where.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 16, 2012, 12:38:57 pm
I keep thinking about DeCastro, and if we would have taken him if he would have made whoever played LT better.  Kind of like he did at Stanford.  Especially since we are not going to be drafting (fingers crossed) in the top 5-10 in order to grab a real stud LT.  Getting a killer G to make your T look better might not be so bad. 

But...we needed a DE also.  Just too many holes to fill. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 16, 2012, 12:40:32 pm
So you do agree our O line looked second rate? Are we banking on Carimi? I'm just surprised there wasn't more emphasis put on our O line this off season..

Last year, yes.  (In fact, over the last 5 games our entire offense was 2nd, more like 3rd rate, after losing 2 lineman, a QB, WR, and starting HB. 

But for most of the season they were doing a pretty good job run blocking.  Bears, without Forte for a few games at the end, still finished 9th in the NFL running the ball.

And going back to sacks.  As I said 5 sacks in Cutler's last 5 games.  Overall 23 sacks in the first 10 games with Cutler (a bit over 2 a game).  And 26 in the last 6 without Cutler (4 a game).

But this year, assuming Carimi has recovered from his December surgery, I think our O-line will be downright mediocre.  That's my story...and I'm sticking to it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 12:40:57 pm
I also wonder how much of the OL problems was the play getting in late, they couldn't do any pre-snap reads and kind of have an idea of which guy to block and who might be blitzing and from where.

On top of which, our C (who was making the line calls) had spent his entire career up till last year playing G.  By definition he was going to be handicapped recognizing the defensive fronts and making line calls because it's something he never had to do before.

I know that Garza was a Pro Bowl alternate at C blah blah blah but now that Chris Spencer's hand is healed I would really like to see him be the C and put Garza back at G and have both guys playing their natural positions.  Something tells me that won't be happening but it would make the most sense.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 16, 2012, 12:44:35 pm
"And going back to sacks.  As I said 5 sacks in Cutler's last 5 games."  Dallas you would be the first one to agree with Blache and say sacks are over rated. The real number you need is how many times Cutler was taken down to the ground with force, or hit and stayed upright.  Sack is a statistic, but a brusing can happen without a sack.  That is the real key.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 16, 2012, 12:45:20 pm
I keep thinking about DeCastro, and if we would have taken him if he would have made whoever played LT better.

There' some truth to that statement, but for the most part on a DEs outside rush you rarely see a double team with the tackle and guard.  A tackle, if he gets help, will get it from a TE or RB.

Not saying DeCastro wouldn't have helped, but the LT has to be able to block one on one for the majority of the time without any help...from anybody.

Kind of like he did at Stanford.

If you're talking about Jonathon Martin - he played on the left side.  DeCastro was the RG for Stanford.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 16, 2012, 12:48:10 pm
I keep thinking about DeCastro, and if we would have taken him if he would have made whoever played LT better.

There' some truth to that statement, but for the most part on a DEs outside rush you rarely see a double team with the tackle and guard.  A tackle, if he gets help, will get it from a TE or RB.

Not saying DeCastro wouldn't have helped, but the LT has to be able to block one on one for the majority of the time without any help...from anybody.

Kind of like he did at Stanford.

If you're talking about Jonathon Martin - he played on the left side.  DeCastro was the RG for Stanford.


Opps my bad.  For some reason I thought he played LG
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 12:48:31 pm
The real number you need is how many times Cutler was taken down to the ground with force, or hit and stayed upright.

Passes deflected or knocked down at the line should also be figured in.  They're not as damaging as a sack but they still cause the offense to lose a down with no gain and they're the single most effective way to shut down a short drop / quick release passing game.  Our own DL needs to get much much better at this especially against guys like Rodgers and Stafford.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 16, 2012, 12:53:01 pm
Dallas you would be the first one to agree with Blache and say sacks are over rated. The real number you need is how many times Cutler was taken down to the ground with force, or hit and stayed upright.  Sack is a statistic, but a brusing can happen without a sack.  That is the real key.

Yeah I agree that sacks are overrated but they are a readily available stat that does also indicate pressure. 

My point was that there was a marked difference in our pass blocking when Cutler went out.  Part of that is that Cutler has a great pocket presence.  Its not just about speed because Hanie and McCown were probably just as mobile as Cutler.  Also I'd bet defenses applied more pressure to our offense when the backup was in figuring he wouldn't be as able to pick up secondary reads.

Try to recall back to when our offense finally got rolling during the middle of our season - we're we all bitching about the O-line as much as we are now?   I'm not saying it can't be improved but I don't think its in that BAD of shape going forward as many here do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 16, 2012, 01:24:13 pm
As I said, you have a franchise QB, you take care of him. Mediocre doesn't cut it.. Cutler got beat up last year, and everyone knows it..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 16, 2012, 02:51:37 pm

And should Emery have just pulled a starting caliber LT out of his azz?   Any suggestions from the armchair GMs?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 03:13:07 pm
So much for Mike Adams not being a viable NFL LT prospect, I guess:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/16/willie-colon-moving-to-left-guard/

This article says Adams has been working at LT in the Steelers minicamps.  And when it comes to OL, the Steelers don't get it wrong very often.

Oh well...   I'm pretty sure the pot thing had Adams off Emery's board anyway.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 16, 2012, 03:19:19 pm
So much for Mike Adams not being a viable NFL LT prospect, I guess:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/16/willie-colon-moving-to-left-guard/

This article says Adams has been working at LT in the Steelers minicamps.  And when it comes to OL, the Steelers don't get it wrong very often.

Oh well...   I'm pretty sure the pot thing had Adams off Emery's board anyway.

We picked up that OT who went undrafted because of pot.  That would be kind of a double standard. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 16, 2012, 03:23:43 pm
I know they haven't played a down but I'll take Jeffrey + our current OL over Adams and our WR last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 03:25:49 pm
We picked up that OT who went undrafted because of pot.  That would be kind of a double standard. 

Except that Mike Adams was a 2nd round pick while Troy Brown went undrafted.  There's a pretty big difference in what you're putting at ri-sk.

You could also say Emery applied a double standard when he said he wasn't going to draft medical cases and then spent a 3rd rounder on a guy who missed all of last season injured.   And actually that's not even a double standard... that's a flat-out lie.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 16, 2012, 03:34:52 pm
And should Emery have just pulled a starting caliber LT out of his azz?

The whole line is make shift, what the he!! are you talking about...

And lucky us, the master of last years oline is the O coordinator (has he ever held that position?)'cause they couldn't talk anyone worth a sh!t into it (since Lovie's dead man walking)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 03:35:56 pm
I know they haven't played a down but I'll take Jeffrey + our current OL over Adams and our WR last year.

Me too, but I just thought it was interesting all these people were questioning whether Mike Adams could play LT in the NFL and here he's doing it as a rookie, no less.  And for a team with an even bigger stake at LT than others cause their offense is heavily dependent on a QB who's getting old and doesn't move very well anymore. 

The thing is that if Adams actually succeeds as a rookie at LT, it does give you hope that every now and then you can uncover a decent LT even if you don't have a Top 10 draft pick to throw at the position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 16, 2012, 03:56:48 pm
Me too, but I just thought it was interesting all these people were questioning whether Mike Adams could play LT in the NFL and here he's doing it as a rookie, no less.  And for a team with an even bigger stake at LT than others cause their offense is heavily dependent on a QB who's getting old and doesn't move very well anymore. 

They put Mike Adams at LT in rookie camp...meaning he was lined up against other rookies.  AND he was in his underwear - not really blocking anyone.  We can check back in September to see if he wins the job and more importantly can keep the job.

As for Rothlisberger, he moves well within the pocket and is very difficult to bring down.


The whole line is make shift, what the he!! are you talking about...


Last year, yes primarily because of injuries. 

If healthy we'll lineup a 1st round pick at RT, Lance Louis goes back to RG his natural position.   Garza now with one year of experience is back at center where he was a pro bowl alternate.   LG is up in the air.   Chris Williams has played there and so has Edwin Williams.   I think Chris Spencer might be the best option.   LT is the big question mark with Webb and possibly CWilliams contending.

And they have Chilo Rachal to compete for the guard spots. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 04:07:06 pm
It will be interesting to see where Chilo Rachal lands in this whole mix.  He's the only veteran O-Lineman Emery has added to the team to date so there must be something about him he really likes.   He's 6'5 325 so I don't think it's beyond imagining that they give him some practice reps at RT and see if he could be a viable backstop for Carimi.  We know from last year that Tice is not averse to playing a G at T (or vice versa) if he thinks it puts the best 5 guys on the field. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 16, 2012, 04:39:46 pm

I think RT would be a stretch for Rachal - the reason he lost his job at SF was because of his pass blocking.  I think his best value, besides backup, would be the 6th guy on an overstacked line.  Think goal line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 16, 2012, 04:50:05 pm
That could work. 

Have a jumbo package where you move Chris Williams back inside to LG, put Webb at LT (he's very good there at run blocking), keep the C, RG and RT (Carimi) as-is, put Rachal next to one of the OTs and Kellen Davis next to the other. And give the ball to Michael Bush (6'1 245).  If that doesn't get you a 2- or 3-yard rushing TD then someone's not doing their job.

The thing is though that with the Bears, it's very hard for a non-starting O-Lineman to make the game day roster since Lovie never dresses more than 8 O-Linemen total  (to clear room for our 9 or 10 D-Linemen and the 6 or 7 guys who don't do anything but STs).  That gives the inside track to guys who can backstop at least two starting positions (C and G, or G and T).  It's hard to see Lovie allocating a game day roster spot for an O-Lineman who can only sub at G and might come in for a handful of "jumbo" plays a game.  That would seem to stack the deck against Rachal unless he establishes beyond doubt that he's the 6th best O-Lineman on the team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 16, 2012, 05:11:05 pm
Oh well...   I'm pretty sure the pot thing had Adams off Emery's board anyway.

But it didnt take James Brown off the Bears list. At least this guy didnt cost them anyting to take a flyer on
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on May 16, 2012, 06:19:53 pm

 It all comes down to CUTLER ...

 who doesnt know who his starting OL is going to be.  ???

 Look what the Steelers did in the draft.  :(

 Those were our guys.  >:(
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 17, 2012, 07:48:21 am
Best article yet on the whole Cutler / OL thing.  From a guy who actually played the game.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0517-bowen-bears-chicago--20120517,0,3785913.column
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 17, 2012, 01:37:11 pm
Matt Forte, take note:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/17/patriots-now-offering-welker-less-than-they-offered-last-year/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 17, 2012, 01:38:51 pm
Why should he take note?  You feel he should take a lesser offer from last year?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 17, 2012, 01:53:41 pm
No he should take note if he thinks holding out will get him a better offer from the Bears. 

It could turn out exactly the opposite and especially since Emery is well acquainted with the "Patriot Way" of doing things and has made known his intentions to bring those practices into Halas Hall as well. 

The biggest difference in situations being of course that Welker just signed his franchise tender (and is $9.5 mil richer because of it), while Forte has yet to do so.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on May 17, 2012, 06:51:42 pm
I know they haven't played a down but I'll take Jeffrey + our current OL over Adams and our WR last year.

Me too, but I just thought it was interesting all these people were questioning whether Mike Adams could play LT in the NFL and here he's doing it as a rookie, no less. 

Yapper - Do you even believe you posted that?  Would you start Adams over Webb or Williams over what he has showed so far??

DB beat me too it, who as Adams blocked, how many sacks did he give up doing it?  Some of your claims are just pretty outrageous.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: JeffH on May 17, 2012, 07:12:55 pm
The worst offensive line in NFL history.

Bears leadership should be fired immediately, if not jailed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 18, 2012, 07:05:32 am
Boy....it's so hard to fathom what these players get paid. To be offered a "mere" 9.5million dollars for ONE years work....hell, 9/10th's of the Country would feel like they won the lottery! I'd not only throw in catching a football but scrubbing the toilets, waxing their cars, mowing their lawns....lol.....sheesh...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 07:57:57 am
Yapper - Do you even believe you posted that?  Would you start Adams over Webb or Williams over what he has showed so far??

That's two or three people now who have read more into my post on Mike Adams than I had intended.  I brought up the point becuase so many people seem to think you have to have a Top 15 or Top 20 draft pick to land a starting LT, yet here's a guy who fell to the low 2nd round and yet the Steelers (who traditionally have very good OLs) feel comfortable trying him at LT from the get-go with an outside chance he could start for them this year from Day One. 

That was my point.  My point wasn't that we should have drafted Adams instead of Jeffery (or anyone else).  In fact as I've said several times here, I think Alshon Jeffery has by far and away the best chance of all our draft picks to make the most significant, immediate impact and to have the best NFL career.  Of all the picks we made in this draft he's the one I question least.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 08:26:38 am
BOO-Yah!  Marshall is off the hook...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0518-bears-brandon-marshall-chicago--20120518,0,2280581.story

Now that being said...  this might be a good time for Jay, Kristin, Brandon and his wife to all learn bridge so they can spend quiet nights at home instead of going out clubbing which never seems to turn out too well for any of them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 18, 2012, 08:30:40 am
Yapp, I think Big Ben has been beat up pretty good the last year or two. I know he holds the ball a little longer than some but I think they had concerns about their line as well.
That being said if he could start for Pitt, he could start for Chicago!

I'm still glad we took Jeffrey over Adams. It would have been nice though if we could have moved up from our 3rd rounder and got Adams.
I'm still of a mind that if Carimi comes back healthy our line will be ok. I think we'll still be open to an upgrade but we'll be ok.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 18, 2012, 08:35:44 am
Forget everyone else. The Mrs. needs to quietly let him know if he keeps this up,  They'll find him one day with an icepick in his ear.  Cleans a man's act right up, knowing the last person he sees before closing his eyes has an "issue" with his actions.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 18, 2012, 08:54:03 am

Wasn't the Mrs. actually with him that night?  I didn't really follow the story - glad its resolved.  Now we can go back to beating up Matt Forte and our O-line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 09:16:32 am
Speaking of Forte...

LeSean McCoy signed an extension with the Eagles yesterday for 5 years / $45 mil. The breakout is on PFT if anyone wants to look it up, but the guaranteed portion of McCoy's deal is similar to the guaranteed number for other recent big-name RB extensions: right around $20 mil.  Other things like length, signing bonus etc. vary but based on the fact that Forte has basically the same skill set as McCoy and is as important to our offense as McCoy is to theirs, I think some sort of extension that puts $20 mil guaranteed into Forte's pocket is a fair expectation for both sides.

Now given that Forte is older than McCoy I wouldn't be comfortable committing to him for 5 years but I think it still wouldn't be too hard to get a 4-year (or even 3-year with team option 4th) deal done that hits the $20 mil guaranteed benchmark and still doesn't blow our cap out of the water. 

That being said, I expect Emery will ink a long-term deal with Forte at about the same time he signs a veteran OT...  i.e., not anytime soon.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on May 18, 2012, 09:34:04 am
The eagles don't have a Michael Bush type inked as a backup. Forte has a bit less leverage than McCoy did.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 09:46:49 am
Keys, good point.

If anyone's interested, here's the PFT article with McCoy's contract broken out.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/17/eagles-sign-lesean-mccoy-to-five-year-45-million-contract/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 18, 2012, 09:57:57 am
I think the Bears are content to get him for the tag value the next 2 years and let him walk.
While it is good business sense it doesn't reflect well to the other players I'm sure.
Forte has performed above his draft status and pay and been a good camper for the most part.

If you could work out a deal that would give him most of his money in the 1st 2 years that would give him a chunk but still the Bears would be safe if he lost production in year 3 or had a serious injury.
Something like 5yr 50Mill with the 1st 2 years at 10 M guaranteed and the last 3 have a  base of 6,5,4 that can earn up to 10M with incentives(pro bowl, yards, games played etc). It looks good on paper, Forte gets a good safety net and after 2yrs if Forte has trailed off the team can move on without a big cap penalty.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 18, 2012, 10:05:08 am
I'm still of a mind that if Carimi comes back healthy our line will be ok.

If he does comeback healthy thats great. If he's going to be healthy its taking a long time to heal, much longer than most take, which tends to lead to the conclusion that he wll be an injury problem even if he does manage to play this year
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 18, 2012, 10:13:50 am

Thank you Dr. WshflThinking.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 10:15:18 am
Yeah my bigger concern with Carimi isn't how long it will take him to come back from this injury, but how long till he sustains the next one?  Is this thing he's coming back from something that will predispose him to further troubles down the road or have they fixed it for good?

We are so thin at OT that we really can't afford to lose him 2 or 3 games into the season again for any amount of time.  And with Chris Williams also having shown a complete inability to play a full season during his career...  well, there's plenty of room for healthy skepticism. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 18, 2012, 10:35:01 am
Even though Marc Columbo took a long time to heal, he did eventually play at a very high level.  Kind of makes you question the Bears medical/training staff. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 10:43:53 am
Kind of makes you question the Bears medical/training staff.

You got that right.  Colombo, Tommie Harris, Marcus Robinson, Mike Brown...  the list goes on and on.

The flip side of that argument being that with Angelo making a standard practice of spending high draft picks on players with known pre-existing medical issues ("value", ya know  ::) ), there may be only so much the medical and training staffs could do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 18, 2012, 11:15:16 am
This sounds encouraging. Its the first positive thing we've heard.


Gabe Carimi says he’ll be ready to go before Bears’ minicamp

BY SEAN JENSEN sjensen@suntimes.com May 12, 2012 10:02PM

Updated: May 13, 2012 2:47AM

Second-year offensive tackle Gabe Carimi said he expects to be ready before the Bears’ minicamp next month.
 
“I’m feeling really good. They’re saying another couple of weeks and I’ll be here for [offseason training activities] and minicamps,” Carimi said Saturday night from the Bears Care Gala. “I’m just champing at the bit to get back and actually be back with the O-line and not on the outside looking in.”
 
The team’s veteran minicamp will be June 12-14.
 
Carimi suffered a dislocated knee cap in Week 2 last season, and he had ups and downs before being put on injured reserve and undergoing surgery.
 
The Bears were careful about his return, but coach Lovie Smith has been offering some encouraging comments over the last couple months.
 
“He’s right on schedule,” Smith said Friday. “Right on schedule, but we can’t tell you what that schedule is. But we’re right on it.” (LOL)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 11:47:33 am
Why do the media even bother interviewing Lovie anymore?  Every word out of this mouth is either condescending gibberish or flat-out lies.  Sometimes both.

Maybe he's a straight shooter with his players but every time he talks in public I'm thinking, this guy is biggest BS artist this side of Washington DC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 18, 2012, 11:56:13 am

Carimi played 4 years at Wisconsin....missed 3 games total his sophomore year.   The injury he sustained against the Saints, indoors, was not a matter of him just landing funny.  He got rolled up from behind - I don't know if most guys could bounce back from that.

It's the NFL - guys are that were never hurt before are going to get hurt.  Guys that were injured before could get injured again.   

Look at Urlacher - besides missing most the season with that wrist injury he missed a bunch of games with that calf thing too. 

Bottom line...injuries....like sh*t...happens.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 12:05:40 pm
Yeah that calf thing with Urlacher was weird.  Kinda scary actually.  Really glad that's behind him.

Back to the Forte thing... does anyone know if money paid under the franchise tag is 100% guaranteed?

The reason I ask is this.  As stated earlier, $20 mil appears to be the standard going rate now for guaranteed money to a top-tier RB on an extended deal.  I also read somewhere that this year's franchise tender for a RB is $7.7 mil and in 2013 a franchised RB will make something like $9.5 mil.  So if franchise tenders are 100% guaranteed, the Bears may be figuring that if they franchise Forte this year ($7.7 mil) and next ($9.5), then that's $18 mil and change of guaranteed money over the next two years... and they may be willing to gam-ble that as a contingency scenario in the event Forte continues rejecting whatever longer-term deal has already been put on the table.  And on Forte's part, he needs to be weighing a back-to-back franchise scenario against the amount of guaranteed money he could reasonably expect to be offered under a long-term deal from the Bears or any other team.  If I were playing a position as injury-prone as RB -- and if I were at Forte's age and amount of mileage he's already put on his body -- the most important number to me in any contract considerations would be the amount I'd have in my bank account free and clear even if I blew a knee the first series of the season and could never play another down.

OTOH depending on what other core Bears are coming up for extensions, Emery & Co. may have someone else in mind for that 2013 franchise tag...  in which case, barring a long-term deal we had better enjoy watching him this year cause it will be his last as a Bear.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 18, 2012, 12:46:24 pm

and if I were at Forte's age and amount of mileage he's already put on his body

He's 26...and what does mileage mean?   It's not like Forte is constantly banging into nose tackles between the tackles.  You never know, but I think Forte could be productive while he's 26, 27, 28 and maybe 29.   That's 4 more years before he hits 30.

Thomas Jones was 31 when he gained the most yardage in his career and the most rushing TDs...what about his mileage?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 01:41:29 pm
Correct, Forte's not a smash-and-bang type of runner like Marion Barber (or even Adrian Peterson)...  but, he has sustained two significant knee injuries during his career  (the one he played-through the majority of the season a couple of years ago, and the one that ended his season last year).

That's what I'm referring to as "mileage".

Agreed that Forte probably has 4 more years left in him as a top-flight player, barring any further serious injuries of course.  His receiving abilities -- combined with the fact he has traditionally kept himself in very good condition -- position him to be a viable offensive asset somewhat beyond the point a more "traditional" RB would be starting to fade. If I were Emery and putting an offer out to Forte it would be for 3 years plus a 4th to be picked up at the Bears' option, with the 4th year being heavy on incentives and no money guaranteed except for a nominal roster and/or workout bonus.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 18, 2012, 02:47:31 pm
I dunno. Four years might be stretching it. Maybe if he gets alot of swing passes .  Maybe. If he has to pick up alot of blitzing backers.....meh.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 18, 2012, 02:48:28 pm
Plus if Micheal Bush pans out, and splits reps with Forte, he could very well prolong Forte's career. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 18, 2012, 03:15:27 pm
Yup.  I don't get these people who think that because we signed Bush, we don't need Forte.  They are completely different players. 

Bush was brought in to fill in the gap that Forte's game lacks -- between-the-tackles power running in short-yardage / goal-line situations -- and to back him up.  Not to replace him.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on May 19, 2012, 12:52:59 am

 Whats next for our goddamn motherfuucking cokksuucking son of a biitching ... yeah those morherfuuckers,

 our CHICAGO BEARS ?

 Lets get into the shiit with what we have ... WR ... heres a game change,

 RB ... GIMME TWO ! (put slaw and fries with that chidog)  Forte and Bush ... no fockiiing brainer.

 Now heres where it gets interesting ...

 why did we NOT build the OL in the draft?

 Bueller ? Bueller ? Anyone ?

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-S54bbX6eA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-S54bbX6eA)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 21, 2012, 09:22:20 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/21/kellen-winslow-says-hes-done-in-tampa-bucs-trying-to-trade-him/

According to this article the Bears and Bucs were in trade conversations for him before the draft.  I wonder if we were offering the 4th round pick that wound up being spent on Rodriguez?

Anyway I'm really glad that trade didn't go through. This guy has all the talent his daddy did (or at least he did, before the knee injury), but not even a tenth of the heart and brains.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 21, 2012, 09:41:44 am

Tempting.  I'd bet he doesn't go for anything better than a 4th.  There's too much demand for pass catching TEs in the league for him to be flat out released.  But you never know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 21, 2012, 09:46:14 am
This year's TE class was pretty weak so I'm thinking the Bucs can get a draft pick out of somebody as long as they're not asking more than a mid-rounder.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 21, 2012, 11:30:03 am
I was about to post that but y'all beat me to it. I think if they release him the Bears might bite. But I still dont like the fact his agent is Drew Rosenhaus. It wont be long before the release date so we shall see
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 21, 2012, 11:35:49 am
Without even thinking too long I can give 5 good reasons why signing Kellen Winslow (even if it doesn't cost us a draft pick) would be a really bad idea:

#1, he's a diva who sat out practices in Tampa to rest his knee (Tommie Harris, anyone)?

#2, we've got at least twice as many TEs on our roster as we need already

#3, as long as we keep hedging our bets on Kellen Davis we'll never know what he can really do

#4, if we're gonna do that then we basically wasted our 4th round draft pick (Rodriguez), that could have gone for OL or DT depth

#5, he's way too expensive
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 21, 2012, 11:46:16 am
Brandon Marshall is a diva too.  Don't see you complaining about him being on the team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 21, 2012, 11:50:26 am
Hey Trayvon and I thought you were dead
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 21, 2012, 11:52:42 am
Hell so is Lance Briggs.  No complaints about him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 21, 2012, 11:53:31 am
#5, he is way too expensive

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/21/winslow-has-no-preferred-destination/

Per a league source, Winslow does prefer maintaining his current contract, which will pay him non-guaranteed base salaries over the next three seasons of $3.3 million, $4.5 million, and $5.5 million, respectively.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 21, 2012, 12:01:39 pm
I kinda think I would like to keep my current contract too were I him. However, those figures dont bode well for his longevity. I am sure the Bears would want that deal terminated and a new agreement negotiated, OTOH those figures can be very cap friendly as he can be cut at anytime
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 21, 2012, 12:05:40 pm
Any team that pays that clown that kind of money deserves what they get.  That's probably more $$ than the Bears have allocated for all their TEs combined. 

Junior may want three more years of fat paydays but I'm not sure he has that kind of leverage anymore.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 21, 2012, 12:55:19 pm
Per a league source, Winslow does prefer maintaining his current contract, which will pay him non-guaranteed base salaries over the next three seasons of $3.3 million, $4.5 million, and $5.5 million, respectively.

29...bad knees...bad attitude...big contract....maybe he will get cut.

Or a team gives up a low pick and requires him to re-do his contract.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 21, 2012, 01:13:01 pm
Remember the NFL axiom.  All is forgiven up to and including killing people if you can play.  Big if.  Bad knees will knock him out of the nfl. Not much else.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 21, 2012, 01:18:20 pm
Meanwhile here's a guy on the other end of the spectrum:

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8823

The odds are stacked against Kyle Adams being a Bear much longer considering he's an Angelo UDFA and Emery basically drafted his replacement a few weekends ago...  but you gotta pull for a guy like this regardless.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 21, 2012, 03:28:59 pm

Adams still could make the team if the Bears keep 3 HBs, one FB, 3 TEs and designate Hernandez as a combo TE/FB/H-back.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 21, 2012, 03:36:49 pm
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how the final roster breaks out positionally now with a new offensive scheme in place.

Dallas, your scenario makes sense and would give Adams a fighting chance (as the 3rd TE)... but to have 5 spots split out across the FB, TE and H-Back positions feels a little rich especially if the plan is to run a lot of 3 WR / 1 RB sets where neither a FB nor an H-Back would even be on the field.  Depending on how many guys they feel they need to carry on D and STs, that could drop to 4 spots in which case Adams is out in the cold unless he can bump off Clutts for the lone FB position or he qualifies for the PS again (which I believe he would).   You get the feeling that Rodriguez is virtually guaranteed a spot on the active roster despite having no real position so I really hope he proves worthy of it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 21, 2012, 03:47:38 pm
Looks like the Chiefs are facing some of the same struggles incorporating McCluster into their offense as the Bears have encountered with Hester.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/21/chiefs-move-mccluster-back-to-wide-receiver/

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on May 21, 2012, 07:57:27 pm
Just say no to Winslow...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 21, 2012, 08:15:55 pm
Ditto.  At that position, 29. bad knees, nah.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 22, 2012, 07:37:47 am
Winslow was traded to the Seahawks for a 7th round pick that becomes a 6th if certain conditions are met.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 22, 2012, 08:06:59 am
My brother up in the Cities tells me the Vikings have signed Levi Horn.

Well at least we cut him before he learned too much of our new offense  (I hope).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 22, 2012, 08:24:14 am
I believe he was cut before he ever saw a practice or got a playbook
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 22, 2012, 08:32:48 am
Correct...  he was cut after the rookie weekend minicamp, which would not have included him and is the only team activity the Bears have held so far.

 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 22, 2012, 08:44:01 am
Remember Garrett Wolfe?  ESPNChicago reports that he has signed with the Montreal CFL team.

He probably should have been playing in Canada from the beginning as the Canadian game is much better suited to his skill set.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 23, 2012, 01:53:43 pm
Trib reported that Carmini isn't practicing in the ota's.  wtf? Hauntingly similar to the other bear first rounder ol.  We're told everything is ok, but the kid isn't to be found.  I'm tired of getting lied to. I've been whining about the ol since whenever, told over and over its fine, and keep seeing Cutler on his ass. I'm having a hard time with "everything is ok" and a first round pick isn't lining up in practice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 23, 2012, 02:03:54 pm
Urlacher's not participating in OTAs either.

The difference being Urlacher already knows the D inside and out, while Carimi has an entire new offense to learn.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 23, 2012, 02:49:43 pm
According to Brad Biggs in his OTA report, the guy playing first team RT in Carimi's absence is Mansfield Wrotto...  who is actually listed as a G.

Yikes.

Really really makes me wonder why we cut Levi Horn.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 23, 2012, 03:19:53 pm
Hmmm a G playing RT.  Sounds about right to me.  Sigh.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 23, 2012, 03:27:30 pm
The biggest problem I have with that is, how is McClellin supposed to get up to NFL speed working against Mansfield freakin Wrotto?

Most teams' 2nd string RTs are better than Wrotto, not to mention the starting caliber guys Shea will be facing every week.  It's bad enough he's gonna be facing RTs better than he ever saw playing for Boise State, but to not even have an NFL-caliber RT on our own team for him to practice against right now is really doing the kid a disservice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 23, 2012, 03:36:36 pm

Thought I read an article that Carimi has not yet been cleared to practice.  He's close.  NO reason to rush him.

As for Wrotto not being high enough caliber for McClellin.  They aren't even in pads yet.  You can't judge any lineman in one on one drills when they're in their underwear.

You guys worry about sh*t that's not worth worrying about.  Maybe you should go back to the Forte contract issue.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 23, 2012, 03:36:55 pm
Story on Johnny Knox:

http://www.lodgenet.com/services/Pages/HotelierNewsletter_May_2012.aspx

Says he's on the field at the OTAs and working his rehab, but he's still 20 lbs below playing weight and walking with a limp. It's very obvious he will not be in the plans for this year.  After that depends on Emery.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 23, 2012, 04:33:40 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-knox-taking-time-staying-positive-in-recovery-20120523,0,3152715.story

He's walking, he's gained back 10 of his lost 30 lbs and lifting weights.  That's great news in itself.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 23, 2012, 04:43:24 pm
Agreed 100%.  Whether he plays football again or not, he's at least back to the point where he can live a normal life.

I'm not sure exactly what kind of roster provisions there are for a guy in his situation but it would be nice if they could keep him in the Bears organization and pulling a paycheck even if he can't be on the field this year.  He's still on his 5th-round rookie contract so it's not like he's exactly a drain on the payroll.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 24, 2012, 06:53:29 am
I think he can go on the PUP list which he misses the first 6 weeks or so of games and has 2 weeks or for them to figure out  if he can play or go to IR. I think it is pretty close to opening day when they have to decide if he is PUP.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 24, 2012, 07:58:43 am
PUP definitely sounds like the way to go for Knox.

Does anybody know anything about this DT we just signed from Jacksonville, Nate Collins?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 24, 2012, 09:44:03 am

I don't know the details but I thought I read that the league was considering a new rule where you could put someone on IR at the beginning of the season then place them on the active roster after 8 or so games.

That sounds like the PUP, except when you are on PUP I believe you eat up a spot on the 53 man roster. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 24, 2012, 09:45:23 am
A two-year veteran, Collins played in 13 games over the last two seasons with the Jacksonville Jaguars after coming into the league as an undrafted free agent in 2010 with the New York Giants. A former standout at the University of Virginia, Collins posted 10 tackles and half a sack to go with a fumble recovery and one pass breakup.

Collins seemed to be a promising young player for Jacksonville, but the Jaguars rescinded an exclusive-rights free agent tender offer in March to the defensive tackle less than a month after a Virginia state trooper arrested and charged him with possession of marijuana.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 24, 2012, 09:48:34 am
when you are on PUP I believe you eat up a spot on the 53 man roster.

Well if that's the case we can't afford to go that route with Knox.  Hopefully there are other options available, and hopefully Lovie hasn't compromised any options the Bears might have in that regard by having Knox on the field for OTAs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 24, 2012, 09:56:48 am

He's not participating in OTAs...just watching.  Plus I don't think OTAs are considered training camp.

Here's the official rules for PUP:
“Once they are designated as such (PUP), they are prohibited from practicing with the team. They can, however, rehabilitate and participate in team meetings. If a player begins training camp on the PUP list, they can be moved to the active roster at any time, even after one practice. A player is not allowed to be placed on the PUP list if they start training camp on the active roster, even if they take part in only the first few minutes of the first practice.

A player who begins the regular season on the PUP list must sit out his team’s first six games. After that point, a team has three weeks to start having the player practice; once the player begins practicing, the team has another three weeks to put the player on the active roster. If the player is not activated by that time, or if he does not begin practicing within that three week window, he must remain on the PUP list for the remainder of the season.”
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 24, 2012, 10:10:26 am
Cool.  Thanks for the explanation Dallas.

I think it's pretty cool that Knox is out there with the team for these OTAs.  Even if he's not an "active participant" and even if he (and everyone else) knows he won't be playing this year it's still got to be a morale boost for everyone (and especially Knox himself) to have him out there.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on May 24, 2012, 11:21:47 am
he has enough talent and has been around a couple years that mental reps will help him get up to speed and keep him connected with everyone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 24, 2012, 12:04:25 pm
Interesting how Emery has not shied away from pot users altogether.  Nate Collins and James Brown.  Too bad Sam Hurd isnt still around.  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 24, 2012, 03:28:46 pm
Skip Bayless this morning predicted the Bears to win the division.  KISS of death.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 24, 2012, 03:31:12 pm
Winning the division will almost certainly require sweeping the Packers.  I don't see that happening.

I'm seeing a sweep of the Vikings and splits with the Lions and Pack for a 4-2 record.  Best case we sweep the Lions and that would make it 5-1.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 24, 2012, 03:52:06 pm
Someone needs to pitch Skip into the nearest large body of water with large stones affixed to his ankles.  I'm too far away. Volunteers?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on May 25, 2012, 06:35:54 am
Can we tie Bayless face to face with Mariotti, then toss them both?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 25, 2012, 07:11:51 am
I am not a fan of either
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 25, 2012, 10:51:38 am
Tribune story on Wootton:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-wootton-healthy-ready-to-go-20120525,0,2355590.story

Essentially, Wootton's inability to establish himself to date forced us to draft a DE in the 1st round this year.  But IF -- and it's a huge IF -- Wootton can stay healthy and revert to the form he showed at Northwestern -- and IF McClellin turns out to be worthy of a Top 20 draft pick -- we could have a 4 DE rotation of Peppers, Izzy, Wootton and McClellin that could rival the Giants in terms of quality.  At which point I would expect our pass defense to show noticeable (and needed) improvement, our shaky D-Backfield notwithstanding.

Wootton's made it through the first OTA without getting hurt so that's a start.   :-\
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 25, 2012, 12:36:52 pm
Tribune story on Wootton:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-wootton-healthy-ready-to-go-20120525,0,2355590.story

Essentially, Wootton's inability to establish himself to date forced us to draft a DE in the 1st round this year.  But IF -- and it's a huge IF -- Wootton can stay healthy and revert to the form he showed at Northwestern -- and IF McClellin turns out to be worthy of a Top 20 draft pick -- we could have a 4 DE rotation of Peppers, Izzy, Wootton and McClellin that could rival the Giants in terms of quality.  At which point I would expect our pass defense to show noticeable (and needed) improvement, our shaky D-Backfield notwithstanding.

Wootton's made it through the first OTA without getting hurt so that's a start.   :-\


And if that all pans out, maybe we can go OL with our top pick next year. ;) 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 25, 2012, 03:01:02 pm
Lots of luck there. We also need a DT which we passed on and then you have to draft a safety every year and then there is always a glaring hole at CB that keeps being patched over. It seems that a true LOT can be found in the 7th round or as a UDFA. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 25, 2012, 03:49:09 pm
To Wootton's credit, he is the guy that brought the Brett Favre farce to an end once and for all.

So he's got that going for him, anyway. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 25, 2012, 03:56:05 pm
For that he will always have a place at the 46 table.  Booze included. Man, do I remember that game, and that play.  Beat them like a drum.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 25, 2012, 04:02:14 pm
This Bears team probably has the most depth of any that I can recall in recent memory.    Now that depth may be more quantity than quality but Emery has done a good job of finding players to compete at spots we were very thin at namely:  CB, OLB, DT, WR, S, and DE.  We're still kind of thin at OT but that's been somewhat addressed by moving Chris Williams and picking up the prized UDFA Brown.

Depth chart looks good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 25, 2012, 04:11:32 pm
Depth is so important.  Look no further than the Giants, who had a slew of pretty major injuries at varying points of the season last year but still managed to hold things together and ultimately, take home the ultimate prize.

Now granted, the NFC East wasn't nearly as tough as the NFC North was last year (or looks to be this year for that matter), but still.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 25, 2012, 04:18:49 pm

I don't know how much of that depth will put pressure on our starters.  Obviously the biggest battle is at LT.  Maybe LDE.   Other than those battles I think we can pretty much pencil in the lineup barring injury.

Though I still wonder why can't Earl Bennett be considered for the starting flanker spot and let Hester be the 3rd guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 25, 2012, 04:23:47 pm
Though I still wonder why can't Earl Bennett be considered for the starting flanker spot and let Hester be the 3rd guy.

Agreed.  For the coaches to say that Hester will be starting opposite Brandon Marshall, they are basically saying that Hester is the 2nd best WR on the team...  and with Bennett and now Jeffery on the roster that's just wack.

Marshall and even Cutler have been raving about Hester during the OTAs...  but until I see otherwise in live-game action I'm still feeling that Hester is no better than the 4th best WR on this team right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on May 25, 2012, 06:01:29 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-urlacher-says-he-may-test-free-agency-after-season-20120525,0,2971029.story

I'd hope Urlacher finishes as a Bear, but ya never know. Not sure what an aging (34) MLB that's had injuries would command. He makes over 7 mil this season. They may just let him test the water..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 25, 2012, 06:22:19 pm

Everybody wants to get PAID!  I wouldn't want Emery's job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on May 25, 2012, 06:23:45 pm
Urlacher is just trying to force them to address a new contract before the end of the season.  The best way to make that happen is to come out pro bowl level the first 6-8 games, guarantee you will have a new contract extension.  I personally don't expect that to happen.  New GM is not going to overpay for aging superstar that is not pro bowl player.  It would stick but Urlacher may end up like Favre playing a year or two of football somewhere else.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on May 25, 2012, 06:25:46 pm
dallas,

I agree I think this is the most depth we have had in a long, long time.  I do see competition also at S, WR, and TE...I don't think those starters are secure at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 25, 2012, 06:50:38 pm
The only WR with a secure position should be Brandon Marshall. I mean with his salary, history with Cutler, pro bowls, etc thats solid. Every other job needs to be earned
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 25, 2012, 10:25:26 pm
I do see competition also at S, WR, and TE...I don't think those starters are secure at all.

I think the starters are pretty set at safety.  I'd be stunned if Hardin beat out Wright or Conte at the beginning of the season, especially since he's never really played safety in college.  Shoot he really didn't play that much CB.   But I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually wins the starting SS job later on in the season.  That's kind of par for the course for our rookie safeties.

Jeffery probably has more of a chance of starting than Hardin especially if he's matched up against Hester and not Bennett.

Rodriguez might be a better receiver than Davis, but I seriously doubt he's a better blocker.  Rodgiguez starting over a healthy DAvis AND Spaeth - he'd have to have one helluva preseason.l
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on May 26, 2012, 08:57:37 am
I expect Conte to really be a force this year.

Last year he was learning a new position but srted to play more the last several games.

I like Wright more than most.  Size and injuries will alway be his problem.

I expect Hardin will take over for Wright at some point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 26, 2012, 09:52:20 am
I expect Hardin will take over for Wright at some point.

Yeah provided he doesnt get injured getting out of bed some morning. Like how many uninjured seasons did he have in college?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 26, 2012, 09:57:06 am
I would like to see Hardin and Conte become the next Fencik and Plank. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 26, 2012, 10:58:39 am
Good luck with that dream
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on May 26, 2012, 11:55:32 am
Geez Wshfl you should change your moniker to Eeyore
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 26, 2012, 12:04:07 pm
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 26, 2012, 05:11:02 pm
Hey, I dream too but you know what? You can dream in one hand and defecate in the other and see which fills up quicker.

Its like Davebear's dream of the Cubs winning the World Series.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 29, 2012, 08:13:58 am
I think there's a legitimate chance that none of our top 3 draft picks are starting on Day One.  Which would kind of suck.

But I also think they could all be promoted into the starting lineup before the end of the season.  We'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on May 29, 2012, 10:52:21 am
As for McClellin who cares if he starts, as long as he is contributing.  Love has his stupid rotation, so as long as the kid gets productive snaps, not worried about starters.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on May 29, 2012, 11:26:22 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0524-haugh-chicago--20120524,0,6044077.column?track=rss

An article about Cutler and the new offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 29, 2012, 11:39:48 am
Hardin needs to get into the mix at S sooner than later to justify his draft pick.  You don't spend 3rd-rounders on career special teamers no matter how good they are in that role.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 29, 2012, 12:05:01 pm

Yeah, we don't want another Earl Bennett on our hands, who pretty much sat out his entire rookie year and he still isn't starting...and he doesn't even play special teams.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 29, 2012, 12:35:56 pm
Actually I recall Earl Bennett seeing some action as a returner during his Bears career.  It might have been during one of those stretches when Hester was dinged.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 30, 2012, 12:58:25 am

I was being sarcastic - I like Earl Bennett. 

Recall Urlacher didn't start right away and he was the 8th player taken in the 2000 draft.  And then he was only inserted into the starting lineup because Barry Minter got hurt.

Even if Hardin gets the hang of the safety position (after never playing it in college) his playing time could still be limited if Conte/Wright are playing well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on May 30, 2012, 05:33:41 am
Conte/Wright keeping Hardin out of the line up would be a good problem to have...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 30, 2012, 07:31:35 am
Great news for our OL:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/29/gabe-carimi-returns-to-practice-for-the-bears/

Regarding Hardin...  considering he has CB experience from college it wouldn't surprise me to see some 3-safety packages deployed where Hardin is essentially a gigantic #2 CB matching up against the pass catching TE in a 2-TE set or a really big #2 WR whose size would cause problems for our other CBs (who other than Tillman are all pretty small).  Alternately he could be put in as a LB/S hybrid much like the "Rover" position in college ball.

What I'm saying is there may be ways to get Hardin into action on defense even if Wright and Conte have the starting S positions locked down.  He is so athletic that I hope Marinelli can come up with ways to leverage those skills on our D.  The sooner Hardin can start contributing over and above just STs the better, and would make his draft position easier to justify.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 30, 2012, 11:08:58 am
My concern is just having the guy consistantly healthy. Like Carimi and Chris Wlliams who nows if and when he will go down again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 30, 2012, 11:11:27 am
Yeah...  seems like Emery, Lovie and Tice are putting a tremendous amount of faith in the ability of Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi to stay healthy for the entire season.  As seen by the nearly total lack of effort to put any real depth behind them and cutting the one guy (Levi Horn) who had any experience with the current offense and personnel.

Given the past history of both Williams and Carimi, I'm not real comfortable with that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 30, 2012, 11:16:17 am
Hardin is in the same boat with the other two
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 30, 2012, 11:17:04 am
Williams at LT will be interesting to watch this pre-season.

What wi'll happen to Webb now is the question.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 30, 2012, 11:38:50 am
Carimi is back on the field for this round of OTAs...  which is a good sign since some were speculating he wouldn't be good to go till training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 30, 2012, 12:41:05 pm
What I'm saying is there may be ways to get Hardin into action on defense even if Wright and Conte have the starting S positions locked down.  He is so athletic that I hope Marinelli can come up with ways to leverage those skills on our D.  The sooner Hardin can start contributing over and above just STs the better, and would make his draft position easier to justify. 

I was thinking that besides rotating in at either safety spot that Hardin could be used in short yardage packages because of his size.  He could potentially sub in for a CB or the FS. 

I didn't really think of him playing in passing packages but if he really has those CB skills he could be used like the Bears used Daniele Manning.  When the Bears went man, Manning would often cover a WR one on one.  Problem is Bears rarely play any dime packages, that is, DJ Moore in for Roach is about the only substitution they make - Briggs and Urlacher never come out.

We'll have to see if first Hardin has the instincts for safety and whether he can play up to his size and speed/CB background.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 30, 2012, 12:46:04 pm
Williams at LT will be interesting to watch this pre-season.

What wi'll happen to Webb now is the question.


Yes it will be interesting to see if both Williams and Webb have improved their  pass blocking.

 If Williams wins the job Webb is the swing tackle (he has played RT).  If Webb wins the job Williams could not only be the swing tackle but possibly the swing guard.  And I wouldn't discount the possibility that Williams would get a shot at the LG spot vs Spencer if the decision to go with Webb is made early on.

Bears want at least one to emerge, but I'd think Emery would prefer Webb.  He's younger and still on his rookie deal - Williams will want a new contract since he'll be a FA.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 30, 2012, 12:52:47 pm
Carimi is back on the field for this round of OTAs...  which is a good sign since some were speculating he wouldn't be good to go till training camp.

The only one doing the speculating that he wouldn't be ready was YOU.  Carimi was quoted back in March that he was very close to being ready to go:

Second-year offensive tackle Gabe Carimi said he expects to be ready before the Bears’ minicamp next month.

“I’m feeling really good. They’re saying another couple of weeks and I’ll be here for [offseason training activities] and minicamps,” Carimi said Saturday night from the Bears Care Gala. “I’m just champing at the bit to get back and actually be back with the O-line and not on the outside looking in.”

The team’s veteran minicamp will be June 12-14.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 30, 2012, 02:52:14 pm
While its good he showed up for OTA the bottom line is he didnt participate today, which indicates to me he has a ways to go yet before he is ready for contact
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 30, 2012, 03:39:42 pm
While its good he showed up for OTA the bottom line is he didnt participate today, which indicates to me he has a ways to go yet before he is ready for contact

So you'd feel better if he was having full contact with Julius Peppers his first days back?

And fyi, I don't think they'll even have full contact until June during the mini camps...and most likley it won't be until July during training camp.



Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 30, 2012, 04:03:06 pm
The linemen won't be going at each other with pads on for awhile yet.

And even then, Lovie runs one of the lower-impact camps in the league in terms of contact.  I would be surprised if our OL and DL go more than 80% against each other even at the peak of training camp... which could be one reason we have problems in the trenches when we're facing other teams in games that count.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 30, 2012, 04:31:49 pm
Dallas, I also expressed my doubts. Hell, I was surprised he showed up on the field.  Past history with the Bears has indicated that what they say about a player and what is actually happening can very different.  If that has changed that's a breath of fresh air.  And, as you say, no contact yet.  Yes, I will cringe for a awhile everytime the ball is snapped and he is in.  That being said, if he is ok, they have a decent lt  rotation between webb and williams, and that kid from troy pans out, life could be good. I'm still going to grind on the ol though.  It takes just one bad game by one guy and Cutler is down again.  Why wasn't that important enough to address as opposed to a player who didn't play all last year out of college?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 30, 2012, 04:51:19 pm
And even then, Lovie runs one of the lower-impact camps in the league in terms of contact.  I would be surprised if our OL and DL go more than 80% against each other even at the peak of training camp... which could be one reason we have problems in the trenches when we're facing other teams in games that count.

Yeah, I heard that about Juaron's and Wanny's camps too.  I'd bet if you went around the league you'd pretty much see, for the most part, the same level of contact.  You want the guys to develop their blocking, pass rush and tackling skills but then again you don't want someone getting seriously injured in practice.

As far as our troops having problems in the trenches - I'd rate level of talent first (I mean, look at our d-line last year,  you had Peppers, FA Touaina, FA Idonijie and 5th rounder DE turned DT Melton as your starting 4), next I'd rate injury status (See Williams and Carimi) then a close 3rd would be not enough contact in training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 30, 2012, 05:02:03 pm
Dallas, I also expressed my doubts. Hell, I was surprised he showed up on the field.  Past history with the Bears has indicated that what they say about a player and what is actually happening can very different.

I agree with that but it wasn't Lovie making some BS remark it was Carimi himself and he sounded believable too me.


It takes just one bad game by one guy and Cutler is down again. 

Well Cutler can go down dropping back or making a tackle, but I hear you.  You want to minimize the contact by the defense.  Martz never thought that was a priority.

Why wasn't that important enough to address as opposed to a player who didn't play all last year out of college?

Bears simply liked the guys they picked in rounds 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 better than the offensive lineman available.  I think the kid from Troy could surprise and make the team - but then I had high hopes for Asiata before he put his pads on.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on May 30, 2012, 09:57:25 pm
Well, it is a concerns that Carimi apparently can't do the timing and agility drills of mini camp after 8 months.  Maybe that's expected.

As for the trianing camp contact look for even less.  I think the latest bargaining agreement limits practices in pads.

IIRC during the season only 1 day a week.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 30, 2012, 11:22:28 pm
The plan was for him to return at midseason but he suffered a setback that landed him on injured reserve and eventually led to surgery Dec. 27.

"I am not behind at all," he said. "The doctor said since the surgery it would be about six months. What date it is it today? It's the 30th. So five months was three days ago. I'm right there."



I think I'm more concerned about Urlacher right now - he's not even practicing yet.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 07:20:34 am
As far as our troops having problems in the trenches - I'd rate level of talent first (I mean, look at our d-line last year,  you had Peppers, FA Touaina, FA Idonijie and 5th rounder DE turned DT Melton as your starting 4), next I'd rate injury status (See Williams and Carimi) then a close 3rd would be not enough contact in training camp.

Actually I think even more important than the contact (or lack thereof) is the quality of competition our guys face in practice.

Iron sharpens iron. When your OL isn't very good, your D-Linemen naturally aren't going to be acclimated to playing against top-tier players and they may struggle against other teams who have truly good O-Linemen.   Julius Peppers could go half-speed against any of our OTs in practice and still dominate them...  so practicing against those guys only helps a guy of his caliber so much.  And vice versa, i.e., that's where slow-footed guys like Carimi and Webb are really going to benefit from going against a speed guy like McClellin in practice.

I've also seen this big-time with our DBs. I mean seriously, they were covering the likes of Roy Williams, Hester and Knox in practice and then you expect them to step up against the WRs of the Saints, Patriots, Packers and Lions?  Not gonna happen.  I guarantee that barring injuries, our D-backfield is going to look better this year simply because the quality of our own WR corps has been raised so significantly this offseason.  Marshall and Jeffery are gonna give our CBs a serious workout every day and that should translate to better play on game day. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 08:29:18 am
Could this be Emery's first major "find"?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1202593-undrafted-chicago-bears-wr-chris-summers-generating-buzz-in-otas

UDFA is 6'5, 213, sub-4.6 and is making plays in the OTAs.  Very early to project yet I know, but seems like a clear front runner over Sanzenbacher for that final WR spot based on physical tools alone. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 31, 2012, 09:23:26 am
He does sound impressive so far.  Haven't seen any tape of his play in college but I agree Sanz may be out of a job if Summers kicks ass during camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 31, 2012, 09:26:26 am
Yapp, I agree with you about the level of competition on the OL and DL as a reason we dont do well in the regular season
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on May 31, 2012, 09:40:09 am
About Sumers, while he sounds good so did Sanzenbacher last year. But to have a 6'5 possession receiver sounds good. Sanzenbacher lacked the ability to go up for balls. Summers's speed of 4.58 isnt impressive enough for him to get downfield, but a 6'5 possession receiver going over the middle could be a BIG weapon to have.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 31, 2012, 09:41:46 am

Summers reminds me of Justin Gage - both were tall receivers with limited speed and basketball backgrounds. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 09:49:31 am
Red zone trips set:

WR Brandon Marshall - 6'4
WR Alshon Jeffery - 6'3
WR Chris Summers - 6'5
TE Kellen Davis - 6'7

Shut that down, muthas.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on May 31, 2012, 10:08:57 am
Yep...whoever draws the short CB is the hot read...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 10:14:19 am
Unless Lovie takes over the playcalling in the red zone.  Then it will be Forte up the gut 3 times from the 2 for no gain.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 31, 2012, 10:54:38 am

That's why we signed Busch...actually Barber did pretty well last year for us in short yardage.

And you can add Matt Spaeth to your list...I think he's 6'7
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 11:13:11 am
Yeah I'm excited about the Bush signing.  I think he'll pay huge dividends in short yardage situations and help us keep some drives going that would have been punts in years past.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on May 31, 2012, 12:22:19 pm
So who's a ufa recently at wideout that made a big impression and played well at this level? Asking because I don't know....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 12:28:25 pm
I don't know that I'd call 4.58 "limited" speed.  At least for a guy who is 6'5 and almost 215 lbs.

If Summers were running 4.4s at that size he would basically have been another Stephen Hill and probably would have been a 3rd-round pick even with his small school background.  Biggest question with him will be if he can ramp-up to NFL-caliber competition quickly enough to warrant a spot on the active roster this year. Cause if we try and stash him on the PS we're likely to lose him, especially if he shows something in the preseason games. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on May 31, 2012, 12:31:55 pm
Can't wait to see him play.  Very intriguing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 12:57:38 pm
Biggest thing Summers can do to help his cause is catch everything Cutler throws his way... starting now in the OTAs and consistently right through training camp and the preseason.

By all indications Jay Cutler is finally being given a voice in matters of the offensive scheme and personnel...  so the WRs he's most confident in going through the preseason are likely to be the ones that will stick and the rest will be out on the street.

It also can't hurt our DBs to be working against a WR that's almost as big as Megatron even if he's not as fast or nearly as polished.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 31, 2012, 01:01:23 pm
Instead of Summers having limited speed I'll just say he's slow!  4.58 is borderline speed for a WR - Bennett runs a sub 4.5 and Jeffery is a 4.47.

All I have to go on him is his measurables and that the sportswriters are saying he's catching everything in sight.

But he's still a possession receiver and not saying that is bad especially if he's got the height and good hands.  Don't know what his vertical is but its probably decent since he has played b-ball.

Now we've got to see if he can get off the line, separate and run disciplined routes.  It would also help if he can play special teams.

Must say I am glad to see an article not written with Devin Hester in the title. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 01:13:32 pm
Interesting nugget about Summers in that article ...  it says he was headed to Louisville to play his college ball but the recruiting process turned him off so much he went to Liberty instead.  Usually when guys with D-1 talent wind up at a much smaller school it's about grades (J'Marcus Webb) or off-field issues (Janoris Jenkins), so this is kind of a unique situation and as one of the guys in the article says, he's got the tools to play in the NFL but is just lacking experience against top-flight competition.  Almost another J'Marcus Webb deal but at a different position. 

Re Summers and special teams...  with that length and his basketball background (i.e., assuming a pretty solid vertical), he might be a guy to put on the FG defense unit at least.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 01:46:09 pm
http://discussions.chicagotribune.com/20/chinews/chi-exniners-guard-rachal-eager-for-new-start-with-bears-20120531/10

In this article it says Chris Spencer is working with the starters at LG. (Ostensibly to allow Lance Louis to reclaim the RG spot).  Which basically means that either Webb or Chris Williams will not be in the starting lineup come opening day.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on May 31, 2012, 01:54:55 pm

Yeah, maybe.    But the best 5 will play.  And if Webb wins the LT job then Chris Williams might be better than Rachal and Spencer at LG.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on May 31, 2012, 02:07:49 pm
Saw that article, anyone know why he got benched?  Bad play?  His replacement was probowl level? Just curious.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on May 31, 2012, 02:38:08 pm
I've read quite a few things on Rachal since we signed him but none of them have really given a good explanation why he was benched.

He was a starter before Harbaugh came in as HC and then a couple games into last season Harbaugh sat him down and that was it. Nearest I can put together, he was having some problems in pass protection and that got him into Harbaugh's doghouse.

In the end, his departure was nearly as celebrated by Niners' fans as Omiyale's was by Bears' fans, so that's kind of troubling. But whether Rachal is a true bust of a high 2nd round pick, or a decent player who just didn't fit the new system in San Fran, remains to be seen.

I was a little disappointed to see in that article that Rachal is much lighter now than he was with the Niners (310 now vs. nearly 325 with the Niners).  I was hoping he'd give us some serious bulk for short yardage situations but at 6'5 he's actually on the skinny side now. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 01, 2012, 08:15:55 am
Article on one of the veteran CBs we signed in FA.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0601-pompei-bears-chicago--20120601,0,3191474.column

Apparently he's pretty good when he's not hurt...  They're saying he could be in the mix to start at CB if he can stay healthy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 01, 2012, 09:22:32 am

I like Jennings...he's steady, good tackler and makes the plays he should make but he's not a playmaker.  Hayden could be an upgrade.  The article said that when he was healthy he beat out Jennings for a starting spot on the Colts' cover 2 defense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 01, 2012, 09:36:50 am
Hayden is 6' while Jennings is 5'8 so he's got that in his favor...  everything else being equal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 01, 2012, 10:06:36 am

...and even if Hayden has just average hands then that's an upgrade over Jennings.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 01, 2012, 10:20:07 am
....yeah, but that injury bug always seems to hit Hayden. Only 2 seasons out of 7 has he played 16 games.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 01, 2012, 10:27:46 am
....yeah, but that injury bug always seems to hit Hayden. Only 2 seasons out of 7 has he played 16 games.

That's still better than Chris Williams though.   :-\
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 01, 2012, 10:07:56 pm
Chris Williams hasnt played 7 seasons
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on June 02, 2012, 10:56:54 am
Hayden is likely to be a back up not starting 16 games.

There's more of a chance as 3 or 4th corner he'll stay healthy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 05, 2012, 09:12:46 am
Well I guess there's at least one OT that's even more fragile than Chris Williams:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/05/otahs-knee-is-ok-for-now/

Article says he's missed 31 of the last 35 games.  This was the guy I had really wanted us to get instead of Williams (they came out the same year) so I guess it could have been worse for us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 05, 2012, 09:46:42 am
I remember that guy. I thought he was a stud. Looks more like a dud right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 05, 2012, 09:58:22 am
Ironic that the knock on Otah coming out was motivation, not durability.  The few games I've seen him play as a pro, he seems plenty motivated but he just can't stay healthy.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 05, 2012, 10:22:39 am

The other knock on Otah was that he was strictly a RT - which is where he plays for the Panthers...when healthy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 05, 2012, 01:16:01 pm
Emery continues putting his stamp on the organization:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-add-scouts-expand-personnel-department-20120605,0,2483992.story

On the surface at least, looks like a very positive development.  The last few years it was painfully obvious that the scouting department at Halas Hall was at least a decade behind the curve whether through lack of numbers/resources, lack of skill, poor management (Angelo/Ruskell) or any or all of the above.  The moves announced today fix the lack of numbers issue, at least, and give me hope that we'll see a higher percentage of players brought in who actually belong on an NFL team.

Now OTOH, if the problem is that the current Bears scouts are incompetent to begin with, then this really hasn't fixed anything as nobody has been fired and in fact some of them have been promoted.  So hopefully the problem was one of quantity and not quality and the new hires are of high caliber as well. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 05, 2012, 02:51:06 pm
Sure sounds good. I hope the changes prove beneficial.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on June 05, 2012, 03:40:57 pm
The McCaskeys adding to the payroll for someone without the last name of McCaskey?  Betcha someone or someones took a paycut.  Probably using all volunteer interns in the front office now.  Work for the privilege of being a member of the "team".  Comes with a hat.  Sorry, shouldn't vent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 05, 2012, 03:51:10 pm
I dunno...  maybe the new McCaskey (George?) in charge is loosening up the purse strings a bit.

One thing I've really noticed since Emery was hired is we're not hearing nearly as much from (or about) Ted Phillips.  I wonder if he's on double-secret probation or something? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 05, 2012, 04:49:01 pm
I dunno...  maybe the new McCaskey (George?) in charge is loosening up the purse strings a bit.

One thing I've really noticed since Emery was hired is we're not hearing nearly as much from (or about) Ted Phillips.  I wonder if he's on double-secret probation or something? 

Why? Phillips did exactly what McCasket wanted in firing Angelo and led the search that netted Emery. He seems to be doing everything McCasket wanted.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on June 05, 2012, 09:29:43 pm
Just be grateful that your organization is not screwed up like the Saints.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 06, 2012, 07:33:25 am
Why? Phillips did exactly what McCasket wanted in firing Angelo and led the search that netted Emery. He seems to be doing everything McCasket wanted.

It would be interesting to know if Phillips fired Angelo of his own accord or if he was pressured into doing that from higher-up at the risk of his own job.  There's a big difference between pro-active leadership and self-preservation.  If Phillips fired Angelo just to save his own skin then he really doesn't deserve any credit IMO. It was pretty clear for several years already that Angelo was not getting the job done so as Team President, Phillips should never have kept him on the payroll as long as he did. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 06, 2012, 09:40:16 am
The word was let out that McCasket had an office right there amongst Phillips and Angelo. I am sure he was aware of Angelo's deficiencies. I also believe Phillips and McCasket had conversations about a change in the GM job prior to Angelo being fired. No matter who's idea it was I am sure Phillips was told it was his job to fire Angelo, which it was.  I believe beyond a doubt that had the Bears not fallen flat after Cutler went down that Angelo would still be the Bears GM. That was the final straw. That gave McCasket/Phillips the ammo they needed to can Angelo. IMHO they had the playoffs just about locked up had Cutler not gone down. The disappointing finish to the season was the determining factor in getting Virginia's approval to can Angelo.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 06, 2012, 11:16:27 am
If Angelo was gonna be kept if we made the playoffs last year, then I'm really glad we missed the playoffs. Short term pain for long term gain.

In other words, that thumb injury to Cutler (and the resulting shibacle of the rest of the season) may have been the best thing to happen to Cutler (and the Bears as a team) in years.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 06, 2012, 12:19:58 pm
Thats my opinion too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on June 06, 2012, 01:44:28 pm
You're probably right, great point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 06, 2012, 02:02:32 pm
Interesting also how much more respect Cutler seems to be getting now compared to a year ago at this time.

I think after he went down last year a lot of people finally realized the extent to which he was carrying the Bears on his back with little to no public complaint despite having the odds ridiculously stacked against him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 06, 2012, 07:06:54 pm
I think the obvious thing that has come out of the post Cutler injury is the different front office focus. Emery has transformed the team offense by getting Tice the tools he needs to bring the Bears offense out of the 60's. You hear players saying the Bears will have a passing offense and Cutler seems to be in complete control. I believe this season is going to be very special and very memorable. And the Oline better gell quickly and protect Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 07, 2012, 10:49:49 am
I agree.

If we can stay healthy...  fix our protection and our pass D.... figure out a way to sweep the Pack... and as long as no surprise teams come out of nowhere in the NFC (e.g., Bucs, Panthers, or a 2nd team in the NFC West)...  I think the Bears have a solid shot at not only making the playoffs, but going deep and even making a push for it all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 07, 2012, 01:44:28 pm
Agreed. I believe we have the tools with the exception of the OLine. I havent heard of any LOT cuts since June 1st either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 07, 2012, 09:52:31 pm

We HAD the tools last year...and the year before.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 07, 2012, 10:32:45 pm
We weren't going anywhere with the WRs we had the last couple of years. Emery has improved that group 1,000%.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 07, 2012, 10:35:47 pm
Absolutely. We didnt have a passing offense the past 2 years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 07, 2012, 10:55:25 pm

In 2010 they won the division and played in the NFC championship.  Last year's team was better...until the injuries.

But I agree the passing game (both offense an defense) needs some work...we'll see what happens.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on June 08, 2012, 12:53:20 am
Also in 2010 Knox was a few yards shy of 1000 yards receiving.   But we didn't have a passing offense in 2010.

Tell Seattle that when the Bears lit them up in the playoffs.

Tell the New York Jets that as well as we lit them up that year.

While we're at it also tell the Dallas Cowboys, the Vikings,  and the Philadelphia Eagles that as well we lit them up that year also.

Yep, we had NO passing offense in 2010.   Sheesh!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 08, 2012, 08:57:07 am
I cant believe we had the dynamic offense in 2010 that we will see this year. IMHO it will be like night/day different
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 11, 2012, 08:06:25 am
Wow...  not a good omen when guys are breaking bones before they even put the pads on.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0611-bears-chicago--20120611,0,6376352.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 11, 2012, 08:14:09 am
Here is something else that I found today that I didnt know that kind of shocks me

Time for Davis to put up some numbers

Bears tight end believes he can double production in new offense

By Vaughn McClure, Chicago Tribune reporter
 
7:56 p.m. CDT, June 6, 2012

For once in his life, Jerry Jones didn't get what he wanted.

The flashy Cowboys owner looked Kellen Davis in the eyes in March and expressed a genuine interest in bringing the tight end to "Jerry's World.''

At that particular moment, the feeling was mutual.

"I met with Jerry for a long time,'' Davis recalled. "Jerry's a funny dude. Yeah, they put on the full-court press. They wanted me there and all that. But that's in the past.''

Davis could be a large part of the Bears' future.

His arrival in Dallas two hours after free agency started spoke volumes about the Cowboys' interest in him. A contract offer was extended, although the financial details remained undisclosed.

Davis, however, was back in Chicago the next day to sign a two-year, $6 million deal to remain with the Bears.

"I came back because (the Bears) came through with the offer,'' he said.

Now the Bears need Davis to come through with a productive season.

Coach Lovie Smith and quarterback Jay Cutler have expressed much faith in the 6-foot-7, 267-pounder despite his pedestrian-like numbers through four seasons. The former fifth-round pick has 28 career catches for 300 yards and nine touchdowns. Last season, Davis started 15 games and caught 18 passes for 206 yards and five scores.

Davis' growth may have been stunted in former offensive coordinator Mike Martz's complex, tight end-unfriendly scheme. Now, Davis could flourish with ex-NFL tight end Mike Tice running the offense and new quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates implementing was has been deemed a pass-happy attack.

"It's tailored more toward what (Cutler) likes to do,'' Davis said. "Obviously, that makes him more comfortable. And the routes are better for us, better for me. For the tight end, I get a first read on a lot of plays.''

Davis was asked what would be realistic numbers he could achieve in this offense.

"Not exactly sure, but I'd like to have between 40 and 60 catches, at least,'' he said.

That might not be as far-fetched as it seems.

When Cutler and Brandon Marshall led the Broncos high-octane offense in 2008, Cutler threw for a career-high 4,526 yards, Marshall had 1,265 receiving yards with 104 catches and top tight end Tony Scheffler managed 40 catches for 645 yards. Daniel Graham, another Broncos' tight end, caught 32 passes for 389 yards that season.

Although the Bears have savvy veteran Matt Spaeth, second-year player Kyle Adams and rookie draft pick Evan Rodriguez, Davis is the key figure in the equation. The Bears gave up on their true pass-catching tight end when they traded Greg Olsen to the Panthers. Now, Davis has to be that guy.

A nagging back injury has limited Davis' workload this offseason, but he was on the field Wednesday and should be fully healthy for veteran mini-camp next week.

When asked if he could be a downfield threat for the Bears this season, the confident Davis answered, "Yes, I'm fast.''

Now Davis just has to stay up to speed. His teammates are confident he can meet those lofty expectations.

"For one, he's 6-foot-out-of-this-world,'' linebacker Lance Briggs said, marveling over Davis' height. "He's strong. The way the tight ends are being used in this league right now, Kellen fits right into that mold. He's a guy who, given the right opportunity, will be another game-changer.''

vxmcclure@tribune.com
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on June 11, 2012, 08:46:47 am
four years? the guy is 6-7 and he's been here four years and they wouldn't put him on the field? What?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 11, 2012, 09:19:06 am
He has been on the field, its just his numbers dont show it because of Martz's dislike for using the TE in his offense. Thats about to change with Tice's offense. Tice is a former TE.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 11, 2012, 09:21:08 am
The thing I didnt know was the contract offer by Jerry Jones. I am glad the Bears stepped up
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 11, 2012, 10:38:02 am
Kellen Davis would have had a monster year with the Cowboys.  Here's hoping he has a monster year with us instead.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on June 11, 2012, 10:43:30 am
My God at least on paper the Bears are loaded..well,for Bear.  The 46 must have been in a time bubble on Toena as well.  Six years?  Don't the Bear ever play anybody they pay? I just remember blips of him, and then getting hurt? Who the hell are all these people? Harris was in getting stonewalled, and the Bears had fresh legs on the bench?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 11, 2012, 01:04:10 pm
Lovie and Angelo really had a thing for Tommie Harris.  The Bears kept him on the payroll a lot longer than a lot of other teams would have.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on June 11, 2012, 01:20:19 pm
I think with Tommie, they had hope he would return to form or at least close to form. Maybe ironically they didn't want to have Columbo situation made where a player they gave up on came back to play pretty well. When he was on, he wreaked havoc in the opposing backfield. I remember one play he almost intercepted the snap. Tommie at 75% was also better than some of the other stiffs we had at 100%.

We held on too long and also didn't have a better option to replace him ready to go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on June 11, 2012, 01:30:56 pm
Totally agree.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 11, 2012, 01:35:15 pm
We ... didn't have a better option to replace him ready to go.

Good point. If even one of those three 3rd-round DTs that Angelo drafted in short succession had been worth a damn (Dvoracek, Harrison and Gilbert), we probably could have cut bait on Tommie sooner. 

I swear, did any other team during the Angelo era invest more draft picks into the DL and S positions and come away with less to show for it?  Angelo's incompetence left Emery with a lot of work to do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on June 11, 2012, 02:13:04 pm
Quote
Kellen Davis would have had a monster year with the Cowboys.

Quite a statement considering he would be fighting for time from that other TE the Cowboy's have?

(sarcasm) Sheesh his name escapes me. (/sarcasm)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on June 11, 2012, 02:45:36 pm
Agree or disagree you have to give the man respect. He played the game better at his position better than any other Bear.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0609-mitchell-bears-chicago--20120609,0,5119509.column

One of the few I feel that can call #6 out . Even if I don't think he's 100% right.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on June 11, 2012, 03:01:33 pm
I'm not sure Covert has enough info to make a statement like that.
Cutler had a couple of things working against him
1. WR that could not get open
2. sub-par OL
3. a scheme that had a lot of plays that take time to develop.

with those 3 ingredients the QB gets killed.

We have hopefully corrected issues #1 and #3 which should help mask our deficiencies at #2.
If Webb is our LT this year, I'm expecting folks to think he made a big jump in his protection.
I expect he will make a jump but also the new WRs and new scheme are going to help a great deal.



Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 11, 2012, 03:40:10 pm
Cutler was holding on to the ball for so long cause our midget WRs couldn't get open and he didn't want to throw INTs.

Simple as that.

Now that we've got Marshall and Jeffery (and even a healthy Earl Bennett will help), I think people will be amazed how fast Cutler gets his throws off...  and they won't be getting picked off either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on June 11, 2012, 05:51:19 pm
Yup!

I 100% agree.  His first year he tried to fit them in and the WR's lost the battles and there were tons of INT's.  Now he holds onto the ball until he sees the WR come open and his amazing arm can usually get it there.

I suspect now he will throw it up to the big WR's that are one on one and expect them to win the battles.  Sure we may have a few picks but I am betting Marshall and Jeffries win more of those then they lose.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on June 12, 2012, 07:32:09 am
just keep the number of high and over the middle passes down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 12, 2012, 07:40:25 am
Hopefully we'll be seeing a lot of medium and deep-outs this year.  Cutler is one of the few QBs in the league with the arm to consistently make those throws and as a result, a lot of DBs aren't accustomed to defending them.  Add the rollout into the equation and I think we can really make some hay along the sidelines.

You complete a few of those, the D starts cheating up and toward the sideline, the middle opens up and that's when you hit a big seam route with Kellen or go deep off of play action.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 12, 2012, 08:27:59 am
...Or you hit Hester over the middle
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on June 12, 2012, 08:53:37 am
Cosell Talks: The Perception and Reality of Jay Cutler (http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/06/05/cosell-talks-the-perception-and-reality-of-jay-cutler/)

There is no quarterback in the NFL whose public perception is as far removed from reality as Jay Cutler. Based on my extensive experience, I can say with certainty Cutler is not acknowledged as a top-10 NFL quarterback entering the 2012 season. That assessment is wrong.  I remember studying Cutler when he came out of Vanderbilt in the 2006 NFL Draft. It was the same year in which Vince Young and Matt Leinart were the two highly celebrated college quarterbacks, much more so than Cutler. As always, the tape told the story. While Young and Leinart had some passing deficiencies that were blatantly evident, I was wowed by Cutler’s ability to throw the football. He was a big-time arm talent who could drive the ball at the intermediate and deeper levels with velocity. Not many delivered the ball the way Cutler did.  You may recall one issue raised in the evaluation process was Cutler’s tendency to force throws into coverage. Those who said that were wrong. Cutler was throwing to wide receivers matched one-on-one on the outside. Here’s the way it works in the passing game: The best you can get is man coverage. When that happens, the quarterback expects his receivers to get open. If your receivers do not win, it’s not the quarterback’s fault. At Vanderbilt, Cutler threw a lot of passes to receivers that could not win against more talented SEC corners. That was viewed erroneously as a troubling indication of poor judgment and decision making.
 
When you watch as much tape as I do, only the most singular plays from years past remain embedded in memory. Yet, there’s one from Cutler’s third NFL start with the Denver Broncos — against the Arizona Cardinals — that still stands out in my mind. Cutler, off play action, rolled by design to his left. He turned his front shoulder, balanced his feet with his back foot planted, and then, in the face of pressure, threw it 65 yards in the air. It dropped accurately and easily into the hands of Javon Walker, as if Cutler had handed it to him. It was one of the best throws I had ever seen, one very few NFL quarterbacks would have even attempted, never mind completed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJwPm9g9f0U
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on June 12, 2012, 09:07:20 am
Ok that td pass has me totally stoked up for the season. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on June 12, 2012, 09:12:47 am
GODDAMMIT, I WANT SOME FOOTBALL NOW!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16qhwX26vOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp6CZ5SkAgE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ym3dGOSHdM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-al8sFlveFs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQyuP-r3A_o
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 12, 2012, 09:41:43 am
VJ - Thanks for the clip.

That was a hell of a throw.

This  Cosell nugget is right on:

The best you can get is man coverage. When that happens, the quarterback expects his receivers to get open. If your receivers do not win, it’s not the quarterback’s fault. At Vanderbilt, Cutler threw a lot of passes to receivers that could not win against more talented SEC corners.

Re-word to the following and you have Cutler's Bears career in a nutshell.

If your receivers do not win, it’s not the quarterback’s fault. With the Bears, Cutler threw a lot of passes to receivers that could not win against more talented NFL corners.

Yes, protection for Cutler has been lacking the entire time with the Bears and yes, he has been saddled with two consecutive imbeciles for OCs.  But the role of the sub-par Bears WRs has somehow been soft-pedaled in a lot of the analysis.  I think with Marshall and Jeffery those shortcomings of previous years will finally be brought to light and rectified.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on June 12, 2012, 10:53:45 am
That was evident for some of the Lion's clips there... receiver or DB not working hard enough for the ball
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on June 12, 2012, 06:48:04 pm
Could it be our luck is finally changing???

The Buccaneers defensive line added another injury worry to their list on Tuesday.
 
Defensive tackle Amobi Okoye missed the first day of Tampa’s minicamp because he was having an operation on his knee. It is an arthroscopic procedure, one that Stephen Holder of the Tampa Bay Times reports Okoye is having now so that he doesn’t develop more serious problems down the line. Okoye is expected to be ready for the start of camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on June 12, 2012, 09:59:59 pm
VJ- thanks so much for those clips.  Lions are nothing but a bunch of thug bastards from coach on down.  Bear luck? meh. It is our Bears after all.  I feel bad for him, but, yeah, glad he's not on the roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 13, 2012, 07:43:40 am
If the Bears medical staff tipped Emery to Okoye's knee issues, it would be the most logical reason yet why we didn't make a serious push to re-sign him. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 13, 2012, 08:03:57 am
Very interesting insights into what the Bears O has been working on in the OTAs so far:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0613-bowen-bears-chicago--20120613,0,5756588.story

Be warned, the piece is pretty heavy on jargon but Bowen played the game for a few years so that's to be expected...  and also shows he knows what he's talking about.

The biggest takeaway is that the Bears passing game is going to work two (sometimes three) levels of the field consistently (including throws to the RB) which coupled with rollouts and moving pockets should give Cutler a wealth of options on any given play.  I maintain that our O will need to score about 30 points a game for this team to make the playoffs and from what I've read about the offense so far I think that's entirely possible as long as everyone stays healthy.

Also interesting in the article is that Kyle Adams has been running with the 1s, which squares with another article a couple days ago that called him one of the surprise stars of the OTAs.  He's a quality kid so I'm happy to hear that cause after the Rodriguez drafting I figured his number was about up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 13, 2012, 12:49:34 pm

After watching the Cutler/Marshall clips one thing stood out.   Most of the time the ball comes out of Cutler's hand after about 3 seconds whether Marshall is open or not.

Also noticed that Marshall gets a good amount of yardage after the catch.  Up until now Earl Bennett  has been the only receiver we had that gained YAC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 13, 2012, 12:52:34 pm

And after watching the Forte clips you see that Forte always seems to make good decisions on his cuts when he's in space.  Contrary to all the crap you read in the papers the Bears need Matt Forte.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 13, 2012, 01:02:45 pm
And after watching the Forte clips you see that Forte always seems to make good decisions on his cuts when he's in space.  Contrary to all the crap you read in the papers the Bears need Matt Forte.

Yes they do. The presence (or absence) of Forte will make the difference between an offense that is a bit above average to one that I truly believe could be at or very near the level of juggernauts like the Saints, Pats and Packers, and get us those 30 points a game we need to get to the playoffs and make noise once we're there. 

That being said...  July 16 is a scant month away and the time for posturing is just about up.  Forte needs to realize he has the chance to put up ridiculous numbers this season, sign his franchise tender and start getting up to speed on the new offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 14, 2012, 09:35:42 am
Another article on Kyle Adams:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-new-offensive-scheme-fits-tight-end-adams-20120613,0,5607549.story

It brings up the scenario of the Bears not carrying a FB in order to keep 4 TEs (Kellen, Spaeth, Rodriguez, and Adams).

Of course, a year or two ago at this time Josh Asiata was the under-the-radar "feel good" story and we all know how that turned out.  But it looks like Kyle has a legit chance to not only make the team but get appreciable reps in the new Tice/Bates scheme.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on June 14, 2012, 10:18:54 am
4 TEs would mean we would have to cut Clutz, no?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on June 14, 2012, 10:19:20 am
Long snapper Pat Mannelly, with a brace on his left knee, did work during drills. Special teams coordinator Dave Toub said the timing will allow him to build some confidence in his reconstructed knee (ACL) before training camp.

So if Mannelly is healthy, Klutts is gone?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 14, 2012, 10:27:04 am
Boogie and Bear -

Correct to both.

Basically it looks like for Adams to stick, Clutts would have to go, and vice versa.  What Clutts is up against is that while Rodriguez / Adams could play FB as needed, Clutts can't play TE. And Adams apparently is pretty solid on special teams which puts him on even footing with Clutts there.

Which also probably means Harvey Unga's days are numbered as well.  He might have had a chance as our power back if we hadn't signed Michael Bush, but with Bush on board and looking good in the OTAs I think Unga's on his way out sooner than later.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 14, 2012, 10:30:01 am
I think Kellen Davis is still recovering from an injury and has not been looking particularly fast in camp.  Spaeth may also be recovering too.  Which may explain all the reps (and attention) Kyle Adams is receiving.

BTW, I like Klutts and think he makes the roster.

As for the roster mix, you can keep 4 TEs AND a FB as long as you only keep 3 HBs:

OL   8
TE   4
FB   1
QB   3
WR  6
HB   3

25 on offense and 25 on defense and 3 STers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 14, 2012, 10:32:56 am
Clutts' ability to back up Mannelly at LS may save his bacon under the scenario Dallas spelled out.

I think Unga is a goner no matter what.  Thank goodness he only cost us a 7th.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 14, 2012, 10:41:11 am

Interesting situation with Mannelly.  He has basically been perfect his entire career (except for that botched fake punt call a few years back).  BUT he is 37 years old AND coming off a major knee surgery.

If Klutts can do the job and Mannelly can't run the Bears would get back another spot on the 53 man roster. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 14, 2012, 10:46:45 am

Nobody knows what Unga is capable of - but he will be hard pressed to beat out Bell.  If Unga shines they might keep 4 HBs.

Clutts wasn't the replacement line snapper last year it was someone named Chris Massey.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 14, 2012, 11:26:11 am
IIRC Clutts long-snapped the ball a few times in live action (and did fine from what I could see), and then we signed Massey.  But whatever.

4 HBs would be odd indeed.  I would rather see us keep 7 WRs cause that would give that 6'5 Summers kid a better chance of sticking.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on June 14, 2012, 11:33:12 am
Clutts snapped the ball in the game Mannelley got hurt in if I recall correctly.  They then signed a UDFA to long snap for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 14, 2012, 12:00:54 pm

The kept 4 HBs when they had Garrett Wolfe but that was more because of his ST's contributions.  Bush won't play special teams and I think Bell played some last year.

Unga would also have to contribute there to make the team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 14, 2012, 12:51:19 pm
Seems like we've got a decent # of ST studs already.

Weems, Costanza, Devin Thomas all were signed solely or primarily for that reason, plus I expect Hardin will see most if not all of his action on STs at least in the early going. Plus Kyle Adams, Clutts if he sticks, and I expect if those 6th and 7th round CBs we drafted make the team it will be for ST purposes. And we always have at least a couple of our backup LBs playing teams as well. So that's the makings of some pretty solid ST units right there.

All of which is to say, even a lot of the ST positions seem to be pretty well locked up so it's gonna be a real challenge for this year's UDFAs and even guys like Unga and Sanzenbacher to make the team just based on that. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 14, 2012, 02:44:21 pm

I've got Sanzenbacher 7th on my WR list behind:  Marshall, Bennett, Hester, Jeffrey, Weems and Devin Thomas.    I've sadly left off my favorite WR, Johnny Knox off the list...sniff..sniff.

Those last 2 are special team aces so Sanzenbacher is at a distinct disadvantage unless there's an injury or the Bears decide to keep 7.

It's not just that he's short, small, and slow but he really didn't show that he had good hands.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 14, 2012, 03:03:41 pm
Small, slow, questionable hands and doesn't do STs.

Maybe Angelo would have kept a guy like that around, but it really doesn't sound like Emery's type of player.

I'm not sure where Knox will wind up but am pretty sure it won't be on the 53-man roster this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on June 14, 2012, 09:17:20 pm
I thought Sanchenbacker was a Welker type but not quite as fast.
Someone who could get open on short stuff, move the chains. It did seem like he dropped too many passes last year then again I wonder how much no offseason hurt these young guys.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 15, 2012, 07:25:22 am
Sanzenbacher is nowhere near as fast or shifty as Wes Welker.

They're both short and white.  That's where the similarities end.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on June 15, 2012, 10:45:38 am
Enderle released.  LOL  A wasted 5th round draft pick.  Thanks Mike Martz.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on June 15, 2012, 11:10:24 am
Glad the Guru is gone too!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 15, 2012, 11:34:43 am

Can't blame Martz entirely for any draft pick.  Angelo is the GM and had a scouting staff that should have had final say for any pick.  Regardless, Martz, Angelo and Enderle are all gone.

It now comes down to Blanchard and McCown for the 3rd QB.  You'd like to see Blanchard win the job cuz our backup QB only signed a one year deal.  So you either stash Blanchard on the PS or hope nobody else signs McCown and go with the rookie.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 15, 2012, 11:39:38 am
LeFevour, and now Enderle. That's two draft picks in the last 3 years we've blown on QBs who gave us absolutely nothing. 

I don't care if they were lower round picks...  if you flush away enough of them, at some point it catches up to you.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 15, 2012, 11:42:05 am

Not too many mid-round QBs starting these days (none in the NFCN).  Everyone's looking for the next Tom Brady in the 6th round...or Joe Montana. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 15, 2012, 11:47:29 am
It would be nice if Blanchard could stick as the 3rd QB this year and then develop quickly enough to be the #2 next year.

Campbell is only on a 1-year deal and whether he rides the pine all year or winds up playing extensively I don't see him re-upping past this season. He's gonna want another shot at starting before he gets any older, and unless Cutler sustains a career-ending injury this season that's not gonna be in Chicago.  If he does choose to stay with the Bears after this year (knowing he'll be stuck behind Cutler), he's gonna want a lot of money for it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 15, 2012, 01:00:30 pm

A recent article said that McCown has the #3 spot and Blanchard is destined for the PS.  I hope that's not the case.  It will be interesting to see how many snaps Blanchard gets in the preseason.   If he gets opportunities and does well he could end up going to another team like the way the Bengals snatched up LeFevour.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 15, 2012, 01:23:00 pm
If he gets opportunities and does well he could end up going to another team like the way the Bengals snatched up LeFevour.

Exactly and that's why I think if all things are equal in training camp, Blanchard should be put on the active roster from the get-go as the #3, and McCown can go back to teaching high school. 

The only reason McCown got called up by the Bears last year was his experience in the Martz system, and with the Bears installing a new offense that no longer works to his advantage.  Plus it would play to Emery's preference to prioritize roster spots for young players with upside as opposed to aging veteran backups with higher salaries and not much left in the tank.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on June 15, 2012, 01:26:11 pm
If we make the playoffs this year and Cutler gets hurt I would much rather have Collins than Blanchard. Collins with very little practice did pretty well in a tough system last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on June 15, 2012, 02:08:40 pm
If we make the playoffs this year and Cutler gets hurt I would much rather have Collins than Blanchard. Collins with very little practice did pretty well in a tough system last year.

Collins?  I think you mean McCown.  Stop the flashbacks already.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 15, 2012, 02:26:21 pm
That, and like I said it's not Martz' system anymore.

So other than McCown having NFL experience that Blanchard doesn't have, the two are on equal footing with regard to knowledge of the scheme.  McCown doesn't have any more experience with this new offense than Blanchard does...  the only advantage McCown might have is if he's been getting more reps than Blanchard in the OTAs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on June 15, 2012, 03:05:45 pm
I wonder, did the Jer ever, you know, leave his phucking office and well, LOOK at these people while they were playing? I vote probably not if they weren't in his beloved state of Florida.  Draft 'em, dump 'em. Draft 'em dump 'em.  Make an excuse. Get paid.  Great job to have Jer.  Hell I could do that much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 15, 2012, 03:52:39 pm
I sure hope our sorry drafts of the last 10 years were the fault of Angelo and not the scouting staff.  Cause all our scouts are still here and in fact, Emery just gave a few of them promotions. 

The performance of this year's draft class could be very enlightening in that regard.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 15, 2012, 04:16:56 pm
Bears add another CB...  and a BIG (6'7 324) OT:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-add-two-players-bringing-roster-to-89-20120615,0,6782803.story

Although actually, it's a net zero on the OL cause we cut one yesterday (Wrotto).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on June 15, 2012, 08:20:43 pm
LeFevour, and now Enderle. That's two draft picks in the last 3 years we've blown on QBs who gave us absolutely nothing. 

I don't care if they were lower round picks...  if you flush away enough of them, at some point it catches up to you.

THAT is exactly why I say it is a waste to draft a developmental QB when you have a young franchise QB.  Absolutely a waste...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 16, 2012, 08:05:29 am
OK guys, time for a reality check. Yes I agree they were wasted picks. Yes Angelo wasted a lot of picks. But in the overall picture of things wasting a 5th round is not as dasturdly thing as wasting those 1sts, 2nds, 3rds and 4ths which Angelo did plenty of that. 5th, 6th and 7th round picks are purely speculative to begin with and they are usually relegated for projects. Yeah, sometimes you get lucky with them and down the road they make you look good, but I am not going to get bent out of shape over a failed 5th round pick. Remember if a player falls that far he must have a lot of warts to deal with.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 16, 2012, 08:14:26 am
Bears add another CB...  and a BIG (6'7 324) OT:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-add-two-players-bringing-roster-to-89-20120615,0,6782803.story

Although actually, it's a net zero on the OL cause we cut one yesterday (Wrotto).

While I am pleased that we have another warm body to play with come training camp, I wouldnt get my hopes up too high. At best he could be insurance Carimi stays healthy all season long. If he gets off the practice squad I will be surprised. Obviously there are reasons why he hasnt made an NFL roster yet. He has had some stints but hasnt stuck. So I refuse to get too excited. The exciting thing is somebody is aware of our Oline deficiencies. Its not like we've found a 10 cent plug for a million dollar hole.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 16, 2012, 09:37:18 am
I believe with all my heart that if you are a Bear fan you should read this article.

Believe it or not, Bears’ receiving corps has multiple weapons

BY NEIL HAYES nhayes@suntimes.com June 14, 2012 10:30PM


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/13191624-606/believe-it-or-not-bears-receiving-corps-has-multiple-weapons.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 16, 2012, 09:49:21 am
Another must read.

Jay Cutler couldn’t be happier with offense built for him

BY NEIL HAYES nhayes@suntimes.cm June 12, 2012 9:54PM


D.J. Moore intercepted Jay Cutler during minicamp practice Tuesday. Cutler retreated to the sideline, where he spoke to Brandon Marshall, Devin Hester and Earl Bennett in serious tones, gesticulating about how a route should be run. A few seconds later, Cutler started laughing so hard his helmet, which had been pushed to the back of his head, almost fell off.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/13146881-606/jay-cutler-couldnt-be-happier-with-offense-built-for-him.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on June 16, 2012, 05:51:36 pm
Thanks for posting that. Damn. I want some Bear foobaww. now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 16, 2012, 06:09:18 pm
Those articles make me think we are in for a fun season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on June 17, 2012, 06:07:15 pm
http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/bowens_breakdown/

Love how this guy breaks things down.  Enjoy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on June 17, 2012, 07:40:37 pm
Good info., except I don't like the last part where Bowen points out Lovie likes corners to play the outside shoulder.

I results in too many easy slant plays we all complain about.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on June 17, 2012, 08:20:57 pm
He does mention that the safety who is free is able to defend the slant.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 17, 2012, 08:58:26 pm
..able to but doesnt
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on June 17, 2012, 09:04:56 pm
http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/thread/3211439.aspx

This is a good thread any Bears fan should enjoy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on June 17, 2012, 10:56:56 pm
Das goot!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 18, 2012, 08:02:15 am
That's good stuff, Pekin.  Thanks for posting.

A little disturbing that Marshall is struggling against Tillman...  I would have expected the opposite, if anything.

Still, they are both very good players so hopefully the competition makes them each better still.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on June 18, 2012, 08:17:21 am
Peanut has defended some of the best receivers in the league - Marshall better bring his A-game
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 18, 2012, 08:37:19 am
Yeah...  when Marshall was in Denver he practiced against one of the best (Champ Bailey)...  but in Miami he may have gotten a bit soft in that regard.

Would be interesting to hear Marshall compare Bailey and Peanut.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on June 20, 2012, 06:47:26 pm
http://chi.scout.com/2/1196265.html

pass rush drills.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on June 21, 2012, 11:50:43 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/21/jaguars-sign-nathan-enderle/

Have to say, I'm surprised he found a new gig so fast.

OTOH, with Jags sporting a current 1-2 QB tandem of Blaine Gabbert and Chad Henne, it's probably about the best situation he could be going in to.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on June 22, 2012, 02:02:24 am

 Starting OL.

 Even Cutler doesnt know this one.

 Unfortunately ... neither does Halas Hall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on June 27, 2012, 11:10:21 am
Brian Urlacher shrugged off his lack of participation this offseason while recovering from a knee injury, and the Bears linebacker says he is confident he'll be ready for the start of training camp according to Vaughn McClure of the Chicago Tribune.

Asked Tuesday if he would participate in the first day of camp July 26 in Bourbonnais, Urlacher answered, "for sure.''

He sprained the medial collateral ligament in his left knee and partially sprained the posterior cruciate ligament in the same knee during the Bears' season-ending 17-13 victory at Minnesota on Jan. 1.

Urlacher was sidelined for voluntary offseason workouts and held out of the team's mandatory minicamp, June 12-14. His offseason rehab consisted of extensive work in the weight room and sprints at Halas Hall.

"I could have participated in minicamp, but there was no reason to,'' Urlacher said. "It was three days of stuff that I'm going to be doing at training camp, so there was no real reason to push it.''


Just stay away from Conte!

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on June 28, 2012, 05:47:55 am
NFL Network is supposed to have a focus piece on the Bears tonight on NFL Access..., 7 EST
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on June 28, 2012, 11:50:20 am
Just stay away from Conte!

must be  safety thing...a couple years back a Steltz hit to Tillman's back put him out towards the end of the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on June 29, 2012, 08:12:31 pm

 If I am Halas Hall ... where do I start my first round draft pick :

 Sean McClellin ?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on June 30, 2012, 10:56:26 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/30/forte-says-hell-play-for-the-bears-in-2012/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on June 30, 2012, 11:30:34 am

 I hope the Forte situation is finally solved.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on July 01, 2012, 11:24:40 am
nowhere close to being solved. Glad to see he'll be showing up for camp. Really does seem like the Bears have a good shot at being a decent team this season.

The one area every Bears fan should be concerned about is our D. We'll still be running the cover "who", bend but don't break. Watching the other team dink and dunk it's way down the field. If our front four doesn't generate a pass rush, we're fukked. We've got key players getting old on the D side of the ball, Urlacher, Peppers, Peanut. Won't be long now, and we'll find out..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on July 01, 2012, 08:41:26 pm

 Wheres the bruiser LT we always needed?

 We put more into kick returners then we do OL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 02, 2012, 07:30:19 am
The one area every Bears fan should be concerned about is our D. We'll still be running the cover "who", bend but don't break. Watching the other team dink and dunk it's way down the field. If our front four doesn't generate a pass rush, we're fukked.

Totally share your concerns about our pass D.  We have been well below average in that regard for a few years now already. It really puts a lot of pressure on our offense knowing that no lead is safe cause our D is capable of giving up chunks of passing yardage in a short time. 

I'm really not convinced Shea McClellan is the answer to all our pass D woes but I hope I'm proven wrong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 02, 2012, 09:17:41 am

I seriously doubt anybody thinks that McClellan is the answer to all our pass D woes.   Especially at this point in the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 02, 2012, 09:23:40 am
I realize it's chicken and egg as far as pass rush v. pass coverage but the amount of new bodies Emery brought in at S and CB this offseason makes me think he considers the back 4 a bigger part of the problem than the front 4.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 02, 2012, 10:22:04 am
I think with Emery he is just trying to cover his bases and bring in competition where he can. I don't think there is as much out there at DL as there is at DB. Right now we have several ok guys(for our scheme) at DB with Tillman being the only real playmaker. We have some young guys that might step up but for the most part everyone else is a JAG. If we turn over enough rocks we might find someone who can play in our scheme at least.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 02, 2012, 11:08:18 am
The kid got drafted in the first round.  Your supposed to be as advertized.  If he is, life is good for the Bear and Lovie's holy cover 2.  If not.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 02, 2012, 11:31:21 am
I realize it's chicken and egg as far as pass rush v. pass coverage but the amount of new bodies Emery brought in at S and CB this offseason makes me think he considers the back 4 a bigger part of the problem than the front 4.

Its very possible Emery thinks that way. I do feel Emery is just covering bases and that there was an extreme talent shortage on the DL. Beefing up the back 4 does help if the front 4 seemingly cant get the job done during the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 02, 2012, 11:36:19 am
we're going to be scoring 40pts per game, who needs defense.
Those guys can pin their ears back and get at the QB!
ok, I'll put the koolaid down now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 02, 2012, 11:58:29 am

Pretty much agree with both of nav's posts.

Pass rushers are difficult to find in the draft and free agency - cover 2 DBs...not so much.  We may have improved the depth in the offseason at DB (and at DL too), we'll see if we upgraded the talent.

Offensive production not only makes the other offense one-dimensional (not always a good thing with our defense) but also tilts the time of possession and keeps the defense off the field more. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 02, 2012, 01:17:04 pm
The best way to protect our D, of course, would be with an offense that scores a lot of points and can win time of possession by a significant margin.

In other words, force the other offense to score a lot of points and don't give them a lot of time to do it.  That's a tough draw for any offense because scoring a lot and dominating the clock are often mutually exclusive.  But I honestly think we now have the personnel that an offense like that isn't beyond reality.  If we could average 30 points a game and own the ball for at least 60% of the game, I think we'd be very hard to beat. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 02, 2012, 09:14:00 pm
The kind of offense that can score in minutes and throws the ball 50 times a game may be a very dominant offense but it also means the defense is on the field a lot of the time. You are going to need that running game to win the time of possession and protect your aging defense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 03, 2012, 08:21:09 am
I think that is to our advantage, we can already run the ball and we have been able to pass the ball in spells. Our new giants at WR should open up the running game even more.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 03, 2012, 10:03:51 am
I think that is to our advantage, we can already run the ball and we have been able to pass the ball in spells. Our new giants at WR should open up the running game even more.

Provided we dont get too pass happy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 03, 2012, 11:49:13 am
I think if Tice and Lovie were able to reign in Martz, they should be able to reign in Bates.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 03, 2012, 01:11:10 pm

Tice is offensive coordinator right?  He's calling the plays.   His most recent position before coming to the Bears was with the Jaguars where they ran quite a bit with Jones-Drew and Fred Taylor.  And we know Lovie says he likes to come off buses running the ball.

Martz ratio was OK for the most part but he had lapses where he would go pass-happy.   I don't know how much influence Bates will have on the offense but as I said Tice is calling the plays and we should not see a high percentage of passes vs runs, long developing pass plays, stationary pockets, ignorance of the TE as a receiver, and hopefully an aversion to throwing the bomb.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 03, 2012, 06:20:57 pm
Hey, I was just saying to be saying. You just hope not. You never know with Cutler having the green light to audible
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 05, 2012, 08:20:11 am
Ideally we'd come out huge with the air game, put up 17-21 points before the other team knows what hit 'em, and then go to a run heavy offense protecting the ball, the lead and the clock while adding a few more points.  The quick start would allow our D to take more chances early in the game while they're fresh, while the ball control offense later would reduce their time on the field down the stretch when they tend to wear down and give up big plays.  I have to think especially now with the improved personnel on O that this approach (at least as a basic starting strategy) is not only logical, but do-able. 

Where you run into problems with that strategy is if you have a bad pass defense which allows the opposing offense to go down the field and score points the first 2-3 possessions.  Then you're the team playing from behind and the tables turn completely. Bears fans have seen this happen quite a bit in recent years.  When our D and our O both start the game flat then the failings of each unit make the other unit's job that much harder and we have a really hard time of winning.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 05, 2012, 04:04:29 pm
.....Or the Bears go into one of their pattented prevent defenses when they get a lead. I've seen enough of those to make my stomach turn inside out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on July 05, 2012, 07:27:27 pm
.....Or the Bears go into one of their pattented prevent defenses when they get a lead. I've seen enough of those to make my stomach turn inside out.

Oh you mean Lovies pattented dont run up the score and hurt the other teams feelings?  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on July 05, 2012, 09:51:49 pm

 FUUUUK IT ...

 WHOS OUR LEFT TACKLE ??
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 06, 2012, 08:45:17 am
Training camp starts when ?  God I'm tired of no football, no water, (tn is now offically in my mind a desert) and no cool air.  I like heat compared to the winters up north but this is goddamn ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on July 06, 2012, 10:39:18 am
TC (http://www.chicagobears.com/team/TrainingCampSchedule.asp) starts in 18 days 23 hours 55 minutes 15 seconds (http://countdown.onlineclock.net/) :-)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 06, 2012, 10:53:10 am
 (groan). Just shoot me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 06, 2012, 11:14:04 am
Training camp starts when ?  God I'm tired of no football, no water, (tn is now offically in my mind a desert) and no cool air.  I like heat compared to the winters up north but this is goddamn ridiculous.

Hang in there man!  I'm enjoying the summer.  Looking forward to going to the taste of Chicago next week.  The Cubs still stink but the Sox are at least winning.  Enjoy the summer!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 06, 2012, 12:53:01 pm
your going north? you dog. bring back some "lake effect" snow, will you?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 06, 2012, 01:04:06 pm
LOL!!  Been hearing it's over a hundred up there the last few days.  Hope it does cool down next weekend.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 06, 2012, 01:07:43 pm
Phil,

do you know that its been 100 degrees in Chicago?  But it looks like it will cool off Sunday. 

I'm planning a visit myself in mid-august to catch a Cubs game and possibly head out to Bourbanais.  I don't care how hot it will be by then...its got to be cooler than Dallas.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 06, 2012, 01:13:16 pm
That's what I just told 46.  I saw the Sox game yesterday and it was over 100 degrees during the game.  I know it's been over a hundred the past few days there.

Right now it's a comfortable 85 outside. 

I'll be back in Chicago for a fam reunion Labor Day weekend.  I'll catch who's ever in town in regards to baseball.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 10, 2012, 12:22:37 pm
Crap...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/10/reports-brother-of-devin-hester-wanted-for-murder/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on July 11, 2012, 12:52:25 pm
It was soo hot here last week that I had pavement stuck to my tire on our van! We parked and ate at a local Taco Bell and I noticed a 'thump thump' driving. Pulled over and there was a chunk of the freaking pavement stuck to the left front tire! It was a BEAR getting off!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 11, 2012, 05:38:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIO9DLe_-rY

The 9-11-11 national anthem at the Bears game.  Enjoy and get pumped for the upcoming season!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on July 12, 2012, 10:08:38 pm
Beautiful colors.  Great to hear it sug by a real singer instead of a wimpy-ass  pop singer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 13, 2012, 07:32:21 am
Ah yes, the season opener last year.

That was a great rendition by Corny...  made all the better by the Bears whupping the Falcons 30-12.

Bears looked like a Superbowl contender that day...  unfortunately, the next couple of games after that, not so much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 13, 2012, 06:11:40 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=8886

Tice being interviewed about the O-line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 13, 2012, 06:46:38 pm
http://www.yardbarker.com/all_sports/articles/msn/report_bears_matt_forte_have_made_considerable_progress/11210653
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on July 13, 2012, 07:06:03 pm
Hello fellow Chicago Bears fans,

I know there are a number of Florida resident Bears fans on this board.  I would propose that we try to meet up for the Jacksonville vs. Chicago game on October 8th in Jacksonville.  For those out of towers, temps in early October usually are fairly warm, and the ocean temps are still warm.  Not a bad time to come (as long as there is no hurricanes). 

Tickets for this game go on sale July 25th.  How many would be interested in meeting up or even trying to get group tickets??
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 13, 2012, 07:09:35 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/13/matt-forte-optimistic-a-deal-with-the-bears-gets-done-this-weekend/

More good news!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on July 14, 2012, 06:04:54 am
Hiber - All those years in Florida, I waited for them to come to Jacksonville.  I move, and they come.  I am considering going to the Titans game now that I am so close to Nashville, but will have to see how the finances are at that time.  Drop $300 to go and see them play, or stay at home with the big screen.  That is the question.

Enjoy the game...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 14, 2012, 12:49:51 pm
http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/video?PID=NIul80k04PZSPoQ8d0F5zvNrW_SEEru4

Some Bears talk with Mullen and Bowen.  They are pretty excited about the offense this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 14, 2012, 05:45:07 pm
As well they should be
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on July 15, 2012, 06:25:17 am
As well they should be

Is that wishful thinking?   ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 15, 2012, 09:08:24 pm

A lot depends on the O-line and how quickly they meld.  Garza is steady at center.  Carimi and Louis have not only not played next together that much but haven't played their positions in the pros that much either.

Spencer was the RG last year and now moves over to LG - before that he was a center.  And then the huge question markS...both of them at LT.

Kellen Davis has shown to be a good red zone target but not much else.  Marshall should be a stud but he'll need help.  And how long have we heard that Hester is going to have a big year?   And if he can't, can Bennett step up from being the 3rd receiver to a starting flanker?   And Jeffrey is a rookie...nuff said.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 16, 2012, 07:28:04 am
Sounds like Tice is pretty much on-point re the OL.  I was a little surprised (in a good way) that it wasn't just a bunch of preseason "happy talk" considering it's on the Bears official Website. It doesn't sound like he's sold at all on Chilo Rachal so that's kind of discouraging.

Re our WRs, the sooner we get Jeffery on the field, the better for our offense as far as I'm concerned. If Marshall, Jeffery and Bennett are not our clear top 3 WRs in terms of both production and targets by mid-season (assuming all 3 stay healthy), something is wrong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 16, 2012, 09:25:02 am

It appears Rachal's flaws were exposed in SF.  I'd rather see the FA rookie Brown make the team as the 8th guy.  If Chris and Edwin Williams don't win starting gigs they can backup all 5 line spots.  CWilliams can backup all positions except center and EWilliams can play the interior 3.

Might be enough room to fit one of the youngsters on the 53 man.

My definition of happy talk is anything before they put the pads on - Rachal could still emerge but most likely not as a starter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 16, 2012, 10:11:47 am
Not sure C. Williams is cut out for RT. I seem to recall he was pretty awful there before.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on July 16, 2012, 11:48:09 am
Forte and Bears agree on contract.  ;D

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a952d4/article/matt-forte-and-chicago-bears-agree-to-longterm-deal?campaign=Twitter_news
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 16, 2012, 11:55:51 am
I thought CWilliams was OK at RT when Pace was playing LT.  Then Williams moved over to LT toward the end of the season replacing Pace and did pretty well.   Williams awful play was at the beginning of the 2010 season where he couldn't block anybody.  He then got injured against the Cowboys and a few weeks later was moved to LG where he was pretty steady for a couple years until that injury last year to his wrist.

I'm thinking Chris Williams has to be significantly better than J'Marcus Webb to win the job this summer.  If he doesn't beat him out not only does it mean he'll be a backup this year but my guess is that he won't be a Bear next season as his rookie deal expires.  But of course injuries could change everything. 

As for the Williams and Webb battle it may just come down to who sucks less.  Let's hope not.  I'd love to have to young competent bookend tackles for the next 7 or 8 years and focus on other positions in the draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 16, 2012, 12:05:25 pm
I think we are better off at this point if Webb just blows Williams away.
The reason I say that is we have Webb for a couple more years locked up and we can know it isn't a one time deal and have a couple years to evaluate him.
If CW plays better this year and wins the LT job he is going to want at least 6-8M per year and we don't know if he can hold up or play well for an extended period of time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 16, 2012, 12:11:10 pm
Is that wishful thinking?   ;D

TRIPLE LOL!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 16, 2012, 12:12:40 pm
Forte and Bears agree on contract.  ;D

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a952d4/article/matt-forte-and-chicago-bears-agree-to-longterm-deal?campaign=Twitter_news

So Forte got what he wanted all along.  And the Bears spent the money.  Well all is good now!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 16, 2012, 12:15:09 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/16/report-bears-agree-to-long-term-deal-with-matt-forte/

This article says $8 mil a year average.  That's more than he would have gotten from anybody else.

If he can stay healthy and put up the numbers he did last year, it's worth it.  And even if he doesn't I have to think at least some of that is make-up for all the good play he gave us on his ridiculously cheap rookie contract.

Interested to see how much of the contract is guaranteed, and if the 4th year is an option.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 16, 2012, 12:18:58 pm
I think we are better off at this point if Webb just blows Williams away.

Webb = 7th round contract

C. Williams = Top 15 contract

No question it's better if Webb blows Williams away. If that happens then all we need to do is find a LG that's better than Chris Williams (shouldn't be hard), and then we can move on from Williams altogether.

Between injuries and bad play, Chris Williams has badly underperformed his rookie contract.  He was given franchise LT money and hasn't come within a mile of performing at that level. As smart as Emery is I have to think he'll be looking for any reason to get him off the payroll...  or at most, extend him at a greatly reduced price commensurate with his role (i.e., backup swing T).  We've had a lot of money tied up in Williams that could be spent on other needs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 16, 2012, 12:23:40 pm
I disagree.  Williams being blown away by Webb IS bad news!  That means we're back to square 1 at LT.  I hope Williams kicks azz at LT or give Carimi a chance. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 16, 2012, 12:36:52 pm
I guess I was saying Webb blowing Williams away in that he is showing that he is capable of handling the LT duties not that CW just sucks so bad that Webb is the lesser of the two evils.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 16, 2012, 12:53:06 pm

I won't say I told you so, cuz I had no idea whether Forte would re-sign or not.  But I figured either way Forte would be a Bear for a couple more seasons.  So this was great news.

But I guess all the Forte detractors who wanted the Bears to franchise tag him the next couple years are a bit disappointed today.   They pointed out that Forte was useless in short yardage, didn't score enough TDs and was too old to get a long term deal.

I don't disagree that Forte's strong suit is not short yardage.  But Barber and now Bush fill that role.  And Forte has excellent speed and moves to break off long runs, is a great receiver, and pretty good pass blocker too.  As for the age argument.  He'll be playing the next 4 years at the age of 26, 27, 28, and 29 and will hit his 30th birthday at the time the deal ends. 

I'm not going to predict that he'll be productive the next 4 years but if anyone can do it I think Forte can.

I don't know the details of the deal but hopefully it was cap friendly and gives the Bears more $ to extend other players....like Cutler.

Oh well, one less thing to worry about.  Now we can worry about something else...like our brutal schedule in 2012!   

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 16, 2012, 12:57:37 pm
agree DB, glad we got him signed and got that over with.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 16, 2012, 12:58:51 pm
I saw an article somewhere the other day that says that something like 17 of our 22 starters have contracts expiring in the next two years and we don't have a lot of cap room in 2013.

I look for us to extend Cutler before this year is out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 16, 2012, 01:03:47 pm
I guess I was saying Webb blowing Williams away in that he is showing that he is capable of handling the LT duties not that CW just sucks so bad that Webb is the lesser of the two evils.

I see what you mean.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 16, 2012, 01:16:35 pm
Bush should do very well for us in short yardage situations.

At least as good as Barber and hopefully better as he weighs 20 lbs more than Barber.  And without the mental screwups costing us points and games. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on July 16, 2012, 01:46:51 pm
And even if he doesn't I have to think at least some of that is make-up for all the good play he gave us on his ridiculously cheap rookie contract.

No one gets paid for what they've done in the past. Players that get big paydays and don't produce don't fare well in Chicago.. Hope this doesn't turn out to be one of those cases. Lot's a money, glad it's done and over, hope now it's a worthwhile deal for both sides..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 16, 2012, 02:03:02 pm
Meanwhile...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/16/report-cliff-avril-lions-break-off-negotiations/

I hope he holds out.  That would hurt the Lions D a lot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 16, 2012, 02:05:08 pm
No one gets paid for what they've done in the past. Players that get big paydays and don't produce don't fare well in Chicago.. Hope this doesn't turn out to be one of those cases. Lot's a money, glad it's done and over, hope now it's a worthwhile deal for both sides..

I'm hoping that 4th year is an option for the Bears.  Where they can walk away with little to no cap hit if he's used-up by then... which given the amount of mileage he's put on to date is very possible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 16, 2012, 05:11:59 pm
Dallas I don't think there is a single person unhappy that Forte signed.  It is not much more then what was already offered and he had turned down.  They had already offered him a 4 yr 30 million dollar contract this one is being reported as 8 million per year.  Two million more over 4 years is not going to break the salary cap for the Bears.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on July 16, 2012, 05:39:31 pm
Well now we have no drama going into camp.  If we can stay healthy, the Oline can gel, the D can get some pressure, and our new REAL WRs can catch the damn ball, we could really be sitting on something special. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 16, 2012, 07:41:53 pm

Dallas I don't think there is a single person unhappy that Forte signed.

Maybe...maybe not.  But there were a lot of comments directed towards Forte about him being greedy and not being worth a long term deal, etc.  Same stuff we heard when Briggs wanted to get traded.

In fact, in today's Tribune when readers were asked if the Forte signing was good for the Bears, 44 % said NO.

It's the business side of pro ball that I really don't enjoy - glad it's over, that is, until the next disgruntled Bear wants to get paid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on July 16, 2012, 07:52:15 pm
He was not worth the 9 mil/yr was looking for so that contributed to a lot of the comments here. He also didn't help himself when he spouted his "I'm being disrespected" crap when they signed Michael Bush. With that said, I'm glad they got a deal done and I hope he comes to camp ready to go and with his head on straight.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 17, 2012, 07:32:39 am
I heard that virtually the entire contract was guaranteed...  all but a few mil of the $32 mil.

If so that's a tremendous deal for Forte.

Really glad it's done but I hope we didn't box ourselves in with regards to Cutler. If he has the year I think he's gonna have, he will be very expensive to keep.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 17, 2012, 07:40:29 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-fortes-deal-by-the-numbers-20120716,0,5130163.story
$17.1M guaranteed.
$9.8 million in 2012.
$6.3 million in 2013
$6.6 million in 2014
$7.8 million in 2015,
$30.5 million over four years.

There is another $1 million he can earn in incentives/escalators to bring it to the maximum value of $31.5 million.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 17, 2012, 07:54:17 am
That's a really good deal for Forte.

If anyone's earned it though, it's him.

FWIW the Ravens signed Ray Rice signed yesterday for essentially the same per-year amount (5 yrs $40 mil).  And I believe Forte's deal is pretty close to what Marshawn Lynch is making for the Seahawks, so it's right there in the ballpark of comparable players.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 17, 2012, 07:58:19 am
it would be interesting to know if they gave him 17.1M signing bonus or just guaranteed his first two years salaray with say a 1M SB.
I hope they could do the guarantee +1 as then if he gets hurt we have eaten most of the guaranteed money the first two years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 17, 2012, 08:12:21 am
Cliff Stein is one of the best in the biz at doing cap-friendly contracts.

So while I suppose it's possible Forte's deal could constrain our options somewhat with Cutler, etc., I'd be surprised if we allowed ourselves to be put in a huge bind in that regard.  There are fewer Cutlers out there than there are Fortes and I think our front office folks realize that. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 17, 2012, 10:28:36 am
I heard it said that it was a 32 mill contract but only 17-18 mill guaranteed about what was posted here. So basically if'n they were to franchise him for 2 years thats what he got in guaranteed money. So if he stays healthy and productive for the next 2 years the Bears didnt hurt themselves badly and it keeps the locker room happy. Thats worth the extra money right there. So its year 3 and 4 where problems will begin as Forte will think he was worth the 9 mill he got in the 1st year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 17, 2012, 10:34:46 am
I think the only way this deal has the potential to bite us is if Forte runs out of gas after the next couple of seasons.

And even then, if all or most of the guaranteed money is front-loaded to the first two years our exposure is pretty minimal. 

It was critical for player morale that the Bears front office make a long-term commitment to Forte before the start of training camp, and on that point, mission accomplished.  And I really don't see Forte being one of those guys that will start slacking off now that he's gotten a big deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 17, 2012, 12:00:22 pm
Webb says with Forte signed, Bears offense 'explosive'

Fred Mitchell/Tribune reporter
8:30 a.m. CDT, July 17, 2012


J’Marcus Webb called it “a great day” when Matt Fortesigned his new contract and says he appreciates the opportunity to block for the versatile Bears running back.

Webb said the threat of Forte being able to run or catch passes out of the backfield makes defensive players more tentative and easier to block. Forte has rushed for 4,233 yards and caught 223 passes for 1,985 yards in his first four seasons.

“With (Forte) being in the backfield, and Brandon (Marshall) and (Devin) Hester being over there on the outside (as receivers), it makes our offense really explosive. That is something that (offensive coordinator) Mike Tice has really emphasized in the off-season, so it should be a great time for us,” Webb said in an interview with the Tribune.

Forte ended a year of contract uncertainty on Monday when he agreed to a four-year deal that could be worth nearly $32 million.

“I think it’s a great day,” Webb said. “I think (Bears chairman) George McCaskey and the Bears organization knew exactly what they wanted and I think we now have all of the offensive pieces we need to go out and win some games. I actually saw a picture of Matt (after he signed the new contract) earlier. It’s kind of funny because he was smiling and I am ready for him to come out so I can open some big holes for him.”

Webb and Chris Williams split time at left tackle during the Bears mini-camp, but Webb insists he is not feeling any pressure to retain his starting job.

“One thing that I have emphasized during this off-season is: ‘I’ve got this,’” Webb said. “I feel that all the way through my soul. I don’t think of it as a competition. I think of it as a chance for me to learn and a time for me to take my place as an offensive tackle and dominate this league.”

A seventh-round draft pick out of West Texas A&M in 2010, the 6-8, 335-pound Webb feels his best is yet to come.

“I just want to become better with my offensive unit,” he said. “Offensive line-wise, we want to be a strength on this team. I have been working on getting stronger and staying focused. You should definitely see that in training camp.

“I can’t wait to see Forte and (Michael) Bush and all of the other running backs that we’ve got. Just come out and have some fun and be explosive and help us win. We should have a lot of high-fives and a lot of good photos. I can’t help but be excited for the great things to come for us as an organization. It starts now.”
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 17, 2012, 12:39:14 pm
I wonder if he got paid for that slobber. Man that was gushy. But he has a right to feel happy about this coming season. I think on paper it has a strong potential. Hey the players are excited and the fans are excited. Everything is good right now. Bring on training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 17, 2012, 12:53:09 pm
Does anyone else think J'Marcus Webb is a very strange choice of person to be interviewing?

Even good OTs usually aren't interviewed about much of anything. Much less marginal players who may not even be starting come opening day. Was he the only one available or willing to talk?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 17, 2012, 03:11:54 pm
Hmmm...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/17/bears-make-another-rb-move-sign-lorenzo-booker/

Competition for Kahlil Bell at the #3 RB maybe?  I actually thought we were pretty well set at RB already, but this guy was a 3rd-round draft pick so he must have some skills.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 17, 2012, 06:16:16 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4676492/bears-now-focus-on-urlacher-cutler?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on July 18, 2012, 06:15:11 am
I don't see a spot for Booker.  That is a curious move
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on July 18, 2012, 06:18:18 am
Yapp - You continue to attack C Williams as worthless, but I think our line was at it's best when he was playing left guard.  All pro, top 15 draft status, absolutely no.  It seemed like our line play degenerated the greatest when he went down and Edwin came in.  We had a harder time covering for him then Carimi, and that is not a slam against Carimi.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 18, 2012, 08:03:49 am
Chris Williams can play 4 of the 5 positions on the OL, but none of them terribly well.  LG being where he sucked the least.

Which doesn't necessarily make him worthless, but it sure doesn't make him worth the money we've been paying him.  Based on how it appears Emery operates, I think he is going to need a career year in order to even get an offer of an extension, and even that is certainly not going to be at the level of a franchise LT...  even if he wins the starting LT spot and plays it reasonably well.

The biggest thing IMO that will determine Chris Williams' future with this team is his health. If this is yet another season where he's out of the mix after just a few games then I think Emery will figure it's time to cut bait and bring in someone more durable... and I would agree with him 100%.  OTOH if Williams can give us a full season of solid play at either LT or LG, I think it's pretty fair to say Emery will offer him a long-term deal... even if the numbers aren't as sexy as what Williams got in his rookie deal.

I've got nothing against Chris Williams personally...  just tired of our O-Linemen making way more money than they're worth. Guys like Williams, Omiyale and Kreutz (his final year) were embarrassingly bad considering they were all among the highest paid players on the entire team. I think Emery will be "fixing" that one way or another in the upcoming years... either by bringing in O-Linemen that are good enough to warrant big money, or by paying 2nd-tier O-Lineman more in line with what they're actually worth.

Unless Chris Williams picks it up a couple notches this season and stays healthy, I think his situation next offseason will be very similar to Anthony Adams this year...  decent, versatile veteran player (when healthy), good lockerroom guy but not a guy who couldn't be replaced by someone younger and cheaper (i.e., that James Brown guy we picked up as an UDFA this offseason).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 18, 2012, 10:59:11 am
I am not worried about the money issue, I want the 5 best linemen out there that give us the best chance to win. Emery will judiciously use his chainsaw to whittle down the payroll accordingly. Is Chris Williams being overpaid? He sure is and we are sure to pare down salaries accordingly, but right now that line is so thin and weak we cant afford to use the saw yet. To me it sounds bad that we are going to have a UDFA as a backup this year. Its scary to me. It scares the crap out of me that we cant even address the OLine unless its some UDFA. One thing that pleased me was Tice wasnt bubbly about Chilo Rachal. That gave me some hope that the line issues were actually under control. If some team cuts a decent Olineman this summer, Emery should be all ears, cause we sure cant seem to draft any. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 18, 2012, 11:25:03 am
One thing that pleased me was Tice wasnt bubbly about Chilo Rachal. That gave me some hope that the line issues were actually under control.

I'm not following your logic here. Can you elaborate please?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 18, 2012, 12:49:50 pm
He is saying Tice isn't exactly towing the company line of everyone is a good player etc.
He for the most part is telling it like it is.
It is a fine line, you can't say a girl is the ugliest girl at the party because sometimes you might have to dance with her.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 18, 2012, 01:22:15 pm
Right, he wasnt giving Rachal a glowing report card.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 18, 2012, 01:48:20 pm
OK, now I get it.

Since Tice isn't saying everyone looks good, then when he does say someone is looking good there's a better chance he's actually telling the truth as opposed to the standard preseason happy-talk propaganda.

Now I'm tracking.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 18, 2012, 03:12:14 pm

Tice's comments about the O-line should still be taken with a grain of salt until the pads go on, especially those directed to Rachal (which may be directed to improve his motivation and focus).  And that includes comments on any improvements he's noted in Webb, who I believe has the most room for improvement among the rest of the starters.

I think the Bears are basically telling Williams that the only way you are getting a starting gig is by beating out Webb.   Meaning if he loses out he will not get an opportunity to compete with Spencer for his old LG spot.   That could change if Webb emerges quickly during the PS.  They may then give Williams a shot at LG.   But it sounds to me like he will get the swing tackle job and be dumped with his expiring contract in 2013.  Plus with Williams at LG an OT injury forces 2 change on the O-line.

The question may not be is Williams one of the top 5 offensive lineman on the team but is he better than Webb?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 18, 2012, 03:13:35 pm
OK, now I get it.

Since Tice isn't saying everyone looks good, then when he does say someone is looking good there's a better chance he's actually telling the truth as opposed to the standard preseason happy-talk propaganda.

Now I'm tracking.

Good, cause thats my take too
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 18, 2012, 03:16:05 pm
I don't see a spot for Booker.  That is a curious move

Yep.   Injury insurance and competition for Bell?  It sure seems like the Bears have already devoted a good amount of $ to the RB position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 18, 2012, 03:18:21 pm
especially those directed to Rachal (which may be directed to improve his motivation and focus). 

While true, its obvious Rachal isnt in Tice's favorites house or he wouldnt be trying to motivate him
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 18, 2012, 03:35:12 pm
I think the Bears are basically telling Williams that the only way you are getting a starting gig is by beating out Webb.   Meaning if he loses out he will not get an opportunity to compete with Spencer for his old LG spot.   That could change if Webb emerges quickly during the PS.  They may then give Williams a shot at LG.   But it sounds to me like he will get the swing tackle job and be dumped with his expiring contract in 2013.

This is exactly how I read the C. Williams situation as well.  Emery is saying, "You were drafted as a LT, you're getting LT money, let's see if you're up to it."  And if he can't, he's likely headed to the bench and probably out the door once his current contract is up.

Emery is not above cutting big checks to players, but if you're cashing a big check from the Bears from here on out, you're damn sure gonna be earning it.

The other guy that gets put under the gun in that scenario is Spencer. He played C in college (and in Seattle), was forced into action at RG last year and now is supposed to compete at LG. I understand why Tice wants to keep Louis on the right side -- and I do like the potential "nasty factor" of a Louis/Carimi pairing there -- but asking Spencer to switch sides after already playing out of position at G last year is asking a lot.

Not to mention that with an entirely new left side of the line (which you'd have with C. Williams and Spencer as the starters), you have a lot of potential for early-season protection screwups on Cutler's blind side and that's exactly what we don't need.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 18, 2012, 05:19:01 pm
Not to mention that with an entirely new left side of the line (which you'd have with C. Williams and Spencer as the starters), you have a lot of potential for early-season protection screwups on Cutler's blind side and that's exactly what we don't need.

I think I talked about that the other day.  Both left AND right sides could take a while to jell together. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 18, 2012, 06:53:36 pm
They both can "jell" in training camp.  I'm really sick of this, no playoffs.  If not this year, FIRE EVERYBODY!  Yes, thank you for asking, I had a bad day. Bad.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 19, 2012, 07:38:31 am
I think there will be major changes if there are no playoffs. Emery went out and bumped up the talent level everywhere it was needed except the Oline which everybody is and has been saying as being fine and not in need of an upgrade. So if thats the case then a line that falls on its face would be a big slap in the face of the coaching staff. There is just too much talent and ability on this team not to make the playoffs. The weakest unit is the Oline. With a WR core we have and the QB we have defenses are going to have to blitz heavally to stop it. Is this Oline capable of stopping those blitzes? It darn sure better. So this line has to be better than expected for the Bears to succeed, at least IMHO.

I continue to look at the talent assembled on this team and say to my self that this team has the talent to win a superbowl if the Oline doesnt kill it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 19, 2012, 08:26:54 am
I think that of all the coaches, Tice is the one who will face the most scrutiny if this team misses the playoffs this year.

#1 because Emery has absolutely stockpiled good to great players at the offensive skill positions, so talent is no longer an excuse. #2 because Tice has repeatedly gone to bat for "the guys he has" on the OL.  No way would Emery have totally ignored the OL in the draft if Tice had identified that as a pressing need.

So assuming no injuries to Cutler or Brandon Marshall going to jail or something, it's all on Tice this year.

The only way Tice would be off the hook for a non-playoff season would be if our D had a worse season than our O.  Which could happen anyway, especially if we don't improve our pass rush and coverage.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 19, 2012, 08:34:12 am
But Yapp you have to temper that with the knowledge that Lovie stuck his neck out for Tice. It was Lovie who picked Tice before Emery came onboard. So its as much Lovie to blame as it is Tice. And its the HC who selects the staff. Also if there is a personnel problem its the HC's duty to go to the GM and say he needs somebody on the Oline.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 19, 2012, 09:12:41 am
No question, if the Bears miss the playoffs this year then by rights, Lovie should be gone.

But I also know how things work in Halas Hall and Lovie has "protected" status with the McCaskeys so I would say the only way he is sent packing after this year is if the team underperforms on a catastrophic scale (i.e., 6-10 or worse).

If we miss the playoffs but are close (9-7ish), then I suspect some of Lovie's senior staff (Tice, Marinelli) will take the fall but he would stay on.  Not saying it's right, but I think that's how it would play out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 19, 2012, 09:38:49 am

Talent-wise this team is superior to the playoff caliber teams of the past 2 years.   

Offensively, we all have obvious concerns at O-line, but I still have concerns about production from the TE and the 2nd WR.  I'd feel a whole lot better if Knox was on this team.

Defensively, all the playmakers are over 30 (Briggs, Urlacher, Tillman and Peppers) - we got to hope their play doesn't deteriorate.  There's a group of solid role player types (Jennings, Roach, Toeaina) that we can't really expect a big improvement from.  And then there's the young guys that we hope will step it up (Melton, Conte, Wright, and McClellin).

CB appears deep - not so at DT where we're hoping a 4th guy emerges from a FA group.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 19, 2012, 09:49:57 am
No question, if the Bears miss the playoffs this year then by rights, Lovie should be gone.

But I also know how things work in Halas Hall and Lovie has "protected" status with the McCaskeys so I would say the only way he is sent packing after this year is if the team underperforms on a catastrophic scale (i.e., 6-10 or worse).

If we miss the playoffs but are close (9-7ish), then I suspect some of Lovie's senior staff (Tice, Marinelli) will take the fall but he would stay on.  Not saying it's right, but I think that's how it would play out.

See thats where the conflict begins. Lovie is a 4/3 guy and how is he gonna sit tight for a 3/4 coordinator who Emery might want?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 19, 2012, 10:23:08 am
Excellent analysis, Dallas.

DT depth is a huge concern of mine as well.  Really wish we could have come up with the scratch to keep Okoye. There's a golden opportunity for some UDFA to make the team at that 4th DT spot behind Melton, Paea and Toeaina.

I think the TEs will be fine. It was Tice's position as a player after all, so they're gonna get their due. That #2 WR position is gonna be interesting as I think a lot of us would like to see 6'3 Jeffery paired with 6'4 Marshall sooner than later but it also appears the coaches are bound and determined to give Hester significant reps at WR.  It will be interesting to see how long they stick with Hester (potentially at the expense of Jeffery) if he doesn't come out looking good in the offense right away.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 19, 2012, 10:26:07 am
I read somewhere that we had offered a contract to Okoye but he went to TB where he could start or something to that effect.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 19, 2012, 10:28:05 am
Nav -

That could be. Marinelli is said to be very high on Paea and it looks like barring injury in the preseason, a starting DT tandem of Paea and Melton is all but set in stone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 19, 2012, 12:02:45 pm
Interesting article...  proposes a "worst case" 8-8 season for the Bears with game by game breakouts, and speculates that such a scenario would lead to Lovie being fired.  Has us losing both games to the Pack, plus a 4-game losing streak in the middle of the season.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259619-chicago-bears-why-they-might-finish-the-2012-season-at-8-8
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on July 19, 2012, 12:41:33 pm
If Cutler goes down for any length of time - Bears are less than mediocre
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 19, 2012, 12:45:23 pm
Interesting article...  proposes a "worst case" 8-8 season for the Bears with game by game breakouts, and speculates that such a scenario would lead to Lovie being fired.  Has us losing both games to the Pack, plus a 4-game losing streak in the middle of the season.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259619-chicago-bears-why-they-might-finish-the-2012-season-at-8-8

Interesting. Isnt that about the scenario you and I discussed above?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 19, 2012, 12:52:16 pm
Yup, except I think with an 8-8 record Lovie stays.

We'd have to be below .500...  probably a ways below .500...  before the McCaskeys would let Emery pull the trapdoor on Lovie.

In any event we absolutely MUST beat the Packers at least once this season.  What is it now, 5 in a row we've lost to them?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 19, 2012, 02:27:18 pm

Kind of a downer topic to be talking about what kind of record it will take to get Lovie fired when training camp is about to begin.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 19, 2012, 02:52:34 pm
12-4 is more like what our record will be!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 19, 2012, 03:02:37 pm
We've got the talent this year.  Talent like we've never had on any Bears team I've ever seen especially at QB, RB and WR.  And not just starting talent, but depth.

So personnel excuses are out the window. If Lovie can't get it done with this roster, he can't get it done period.  As long as he stays out of the way and doesn't cost us wins with bad game management, I think we'll be pretty happy with where this team is at come December.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 19, 2012, 04:10:37 pm
I will be shocked if the Bears win less then ten games this year. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 19, 2012, 04:17:16 pm
I think if we can sweep the Packers we have a shot at taking the division. We have a lot of negative momentum from the past couple of seasons to turn around in order for that to happen, though. I'm not sure the Bears believe anymore that they can beat the Packers after dropping the last 5 games or whatever to them.

I think we finally have the offensive firepower to hang with the Packers but until our D finds a way to solve Aaron Rogers it won't be enough to give us the upper hand.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 19, 2012, 05:00:55 pm
I dont see anything on the Packers we cant handle. Our Oline will be our achiles heel.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 19, 2012, 05:22:30 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4676535/pass-rush-focusing-on-pressure-not-sacks?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 20, 2012, 07:48:04 am
No question the O-Line has been a problem these last few games against the Packers but the two issues that have really cost us those games IMO have been:

1) Zero pressure on Aaron Rogers, and
2) The total inability of our undersized WRs to beat the physical coverage of GB's big and talented CBs

The Packers OL is average at best and that's why #1 has been so infuriating... and I have no idea whether the moves Emery made this offseason will improve that situation at all. But I am very confident that with Marshall and Jeffery, issue #2 is on its way to being a thing of the past.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 20, 2012, 08:30:53 am
I'll be tickled if we split with the packers during the regular season.
Actually I'll be tickled if we lose both games to the packers during the regular season as long as we beat them in the playoffs :-)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 20, 2012, 09:02:48 am
That first game against the Packers is gonna be really tough. Primetime game, at Lambeau, 4 days after we play our season opener... are you kidding me?  Anyone who doesn't think the league has it in for the Bears doesn't need to look any farther than that.

Winning that game would constitute a minor miracle in my book.

The second Packers game (in Chicago) I think we have a better chance at because we will have a full week of prep time. And the fact that all of our new offensive personnel will be a lot more familar with each other (and the system) by then.   So I'm seeing a split with the Pack this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 20, 2012, 09:22:26 am
I think that they arent going to be familiar with us any more than we are with them in that first game. I think with Cutler's ability to audibelize we can do things against the Packers they havent seen. And also it seems that Cutler has played well against a lot of 3/4 defenses in Denver. With him audibelizing we can beat them in Lamblow or anywhere. They arent invincible
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 20, 2012, 10:06:19 am
If we can just slow down Rogers and Co, I like our odds against their D.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 20, 2012, 10:14:25 am
oh just super. here we go.  again.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/chicago-bears-nate-collins-suspended-1-game-for-substance-abuse-violation-071912
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 20, 2012, 10:16:17 am
this was why we were able to sign him.
Hopefully he gets his head on straight.
4th/5ht string DT, nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 20, 2012, 10:21:18 am
That suspension could cost Collins a spot on this team.

No joke. There is room for one or at the most two more DTs after Melton, Paea and Toeiana and if the other veteran FA we signed (McCargo?), and/or one of the UDFAs has a great training camp it could be curtains for Collins.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 20, 2012, 10:25:05 am
And also it seems that Cutler has played well against a lot of 3/4 defenses in Denver.

In Denver, maybe.  In Chicago, our O has struggled mightily against 3-4 defenses but I suspect a lot of that had to do with Martz. 3-4 defenses were less common and not as advanced back when Martz was in his glory with the Rams, and it was very clear during his tenure with the Bears that he was never really able to adapt his scheme to effectively counter the 3-4.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 20, 2012, 10:49:21 am
We get Indy and then GB, They get SF and then us.
We could spend part of our Indy week prepping for GB and we likely won't have to show much to beat Indy.
GB will need their A game or SF will beat them.
I like our odds against GB in week 2.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 20, 2012, 11:03:51 am
We could spend part of our Indy week prepping for GB and we likely won't have to show much to beat Indy.

That's how I would approach it if I were the Bears coaches. I would even go further and say spend hardly any time prepping for the last preaseason game either.  Play our scrubs the entire final preseason game, and use that saved prep time to gear up for Indy but even more so the Thursday night Packers game.

We don't want to get overconfident about Indy but unless the Colts have improved significantly, playing them in Game 1 is essentially getting a 5th preseason game.  They have got a lot of issues besides QB and even Andrew Luck is not going to help them that much...  or at least, not until he gets a few games in live fire under his belt. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 20, 2012, 11:56:52 am
Mr. Luck let me introduce you to Julius Peppers. You have never played against anyone like him or Brian Urlacher, ever!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on July 20, 2012, 12:54:04 pm
Bear Report podcast (http://chi.scout.com/2/1203913.html)  Good info IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 20, 2012, 12:57:04 pm
Looking to GB in week 2 is a great way to lose to the Colts in week 1.  One game at a time.

As for the Packers, I don't expect to see anything new from them aside from maybe a new OLB, possibly rookie Nick Perry. 

Biggest problem offensively for the Bears was they could never get their tiny receivers open with the Packers tight coverage.  Hopefully, that changes with Marshall and maybe Jeffrey.   Also play calling under Martz was inconsistent especially in regard to running Forte.

Defensively, you'd have liked to seen more pressure from our DEs on the Packers inexperienced tackles.  Rodgers is so damn accurate that if you can't get pressure on him you're done.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on July 20, 2012, 08:35:58 pm
The Bears can spend time before the season starts to work on the GB game. 

I see the preparation issue pretty even for both teams.

Remember the way Bell got  120 yards against the right side of the Packers D last Christmas?

If the packers haven't solved that problem ( I think they drafted that position)  imagine what Forte and Bush will do.  We'll have Cutler back, of course as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on July 20, 2012, 10:07:44 pm
And if we have any "new" wrinkles that the Pack hasnt seen from us on O, we could catch them napping and score a bunch of points.  Now can the D stop Rodgers, that is the real question.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on July 21, 2012, 10:25:26 am
Now can the D stop Rodgers, that is the real question.

That is THE big question. Not only Rodgers, Urlacher and Briggs are a year older and a year slower. The Packers are the elite of our division, until we change it, on the field..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on July 21, 2012, 10:31:11 am
I agree that on paper, our O looks the best it has in years. But,,,, we have a new O coordinator, we have no idea how Tice will react during games. How many times do we talk about the importance of game time adjustments. The O-line has been less than stellar the past few season, so what do we do? We promote the O-line coach to the O coordinator...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 21, 2012, 10:33:03 am
My worry is can the OLine keep the blitzing Packers off Cutler's back?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on July 21, 2012, 10:39:38 am
I can see the O scoring enough points to win games. I think our season hinges on the sorry ass "cover who?".. If we can't generate pressure from our front 4, we're fukked!!!

And,, I don't see 8 and 8 saving Lovie's job. I think the only thing that saves his job is playoffs, and maybe even one win after...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 21, 2012, 12:34:13 pm
So how is that fantastic offense gonna look with Cutler on the ground? Seems this OLine run blocks much better than pass blocks. Maybe we run the ball down the Pack throats.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on July 21, 2012, 02:34:33 pm
...or play action.

I remember when Cutler flipped a fadeaway over the Dallas blitz to Olsen down the seam for a TD, some rag writers thought well hot damn, that crazy ol' Martz can adjust and figure it out.  Problem is, he had way too many glory day Rams flashbacks that translated into play calls on the field that doomed his career in SF, Detroit and Chi and caused Cutler to relay the message to his offensive coordinator to go fuuck himself on national TV.

With Tice and the passing game, I think you'll see more adjustment (roll outs and audibles), quick throws to offset the blitz, more passes to the TEs (Davis and ERod on the field together?) to add to the DBs coverage priorities , and jumpballs converted with confidence to Marshall and eventually Jeffrey in the face of pressure instead of merely eating the ball because WRs not named Bennett couldn't get open more consistently last year.  No need to revisit the passing woes after Cutler's injury.  In the meantime, the tandem of a healthy Forte and Bush should be able to improve on the team's 2000 + rushing yards they had last season even with...or perhaps because of the upgrades in the passing game.

Sure, the OL is chock full of question marks especially at both tackles positions.  But DT still nudges ahead of the OL in my concerns going into TC.  Pressure up the middle and collapsing the pocket with the front four is still paramount to Lovie's scheme.    I really do not like following ex Bears on other teams wondering "what if."  But if Okoye solidly produces for the Bucs after undergoing a minor knee scope and more than earns that potential $2 million, that will be an annoying WTF aimed at Emery in what has otherwise been a very productive off-season overall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on July 21, 2012, 02:45:16 pm
BTW, fuuck the Packers.  They have the same lame turnaround time in week two as the Bears do.  If there is a Bears team that can sweep those bastards, it is this edition.

(http://www.x-entertainment.com/pics/kool1.jpg)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 21, 2012, 02:52:26 pm
I'll drink to that. Fuucckkk the Packass.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 21, 2012, 02:55:42 pm
I love me some Kool-Aid!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on July 21, 2012, 08:24:04 pm

 Do we have TALLER WR's then we did last season?

 One of them being mated with a certain QB from the same system?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 21, 2012, 08:26:28 pm
I think Jay is mating with someone else but he is playing some ball with his friend from Denver.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 23, 2012, 07:54:36 am
That's the one thing in our favor heading into that 1st Packers game (well, besides the fact we play Indy the game before and they play San Fran)...  namely, we've probably made a lot more changes to our offensive scheme than the Pack have made to their defensive scheme and we've definitely closed the gap talent wise.  Maybe if we don't show too much of our good new offensive stuff in the preseason or Game 1 we can take their D by surprise and win a shootout even if our D gives up 4 TDs to Rodgers & Co. (which is very possible). 

I have a lot more faith in our offense than I do in our D where the Packers are concerned.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 23, 2012, 10:00:58 am
I have a lot more faith in our offense than I do in our D where the Packers are concerned.

That could be because the Packer defense was among the worst in the league and the Packers' offense was tops in the NFL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 23, 2012, 11:07:08 am
That could be because the Packer defense was among the worst in the league and the Packers' offense was tops in the NFL.

Yup, pretty much.

And because I think Tice and Bates are better at their jobs than Lovie and Marinelli are at theirs. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 23, 2012, 11:09:50 am
How has Tice proved that he's better at his job when it's his first OC job? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on July 23, 2012, 12:04:02 pm
Because he aint Martz?  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 23, 2012, 12:06:53 pm
Well I guess that's one positive. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 23, 2012, 12:15:13 pm
I think Lovie and Marinelli are good at running the C2 it is just that the system has flaws that a really good QB can expose.
If Melton and Paea can step up that will help a good bit. If Shea can show something that will be gravy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 23, 2012, 12:22:51 pm
it is just that the system has flaws that a really good QB can expose.

Then really, they're not doing their job. Adapt the damn system to cover those weaknesses. If not philosophically, then at least in-game. That's the DC's job and since Lovie not only is the head coach but named Marinelli as the DC, it's his job too.

I was willing to cut our OCs (even Martz) a little slack these last few years due to a clear lack of talent at the WR and OL positions...  but our D has had multiple Pro Bowlers for many years, not to mention getting the lions' share of quality draft picks during the Angelo era...  and still has played some really crappy games so that tells me there are system/coaching issues there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on July 23, 2012, 01:49:25 pm
I expect both teams to gain  momentum as the season goes on.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 23, 2012, 02:42:35 pm

Most of the time it's not the system that gets you beat it's the players executing the system (an exception that comes to mind is late in the Denver game against Tebow).

You can run just about any defensive scheme against Aaron Rodgers and he'll still beat you.  But if you can generate a decent pass rush you got a chance to limit him.

If Bears can get a consistent pass rush they can vary there defense, that is, play more aggressive, more man,  otherwise they are pretty much stuck in their passive cover 2 with safeties playing at the warning track.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 23, 2012, 03:53:15 pm
Yeah...  unless the refs do a 180 this season and start calling O-Linemen for holding, Julius Peppers will need a viable counterpart on the other side and hopefully that's McLellin and/or Wootten.  And if Melton can continue building on his progress as an inside pass rusher that will help a great deal as well. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on July 23, 2012, 04:37:18 pm
Looks good on paper.....but it's all Missouri to me......the 'show me' State.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on July 24, 2012, 02:40:55 am
Looks good on paper.....but it's all Missouri to me......the 'show me' State.....

 Sporty,

 Heh!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 24, 2012, 07:36:48 am
Training camp, woo-hoo!

Let's get this season ON already!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 25, 2012, 06:06:52 am
That's the one thing in our favor heading into that 1st Packers game (well, besides the fact we play Indy the game before and they play San Fran)...  namely, we've probably made a lot more changes to our offensive scheme than the Pack have made to their defensive scheme and we've definitely closed the gap talent wise.  Maybe if we don't show too much of our good new offensive stuff in the preseason or Game 1 we can take their D by surprise and win a shootout even if our D gives up 4 TDs to Rodgers & Co. (which is very possible). 

I have a lot more faith in our offense than I do in our D where the Packers are concerned.

Agreed. Go Bears
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 25, 2012, 08:25:00 am
FWIW...  article today says Okoye is on the Bucs PUP list going into training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 25, 2012, 04:15:55 pm
And a current Bear goes on the PUP list:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/25/johnny-knox-starts-season-on-pup-list/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on July 25, 2012, 05:51:30 pm
That was pretty much a given.  Lets hope he is the only one, fingers crossed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 26, 2012, 07:50:00 am
Photos from training camp arrivals are up on the Tribune Website now.

- Forte looks thin, but cut. He seriously doesn't look like he's much over 200 lbs right now but I'm sure conditioning isn't an issue. He just needs to get back on the weights and start pounding the protein shakes.

- Cutler doesn't look like he's in quite as good of shape as he was going into training camp last year, but still a lot better than the years before that.

- Urlacher looks about the same as he always has.

- Peppers looks like he could suit up and play today.  He's got a sweet ride, too.

- Garza looks freakin huge (in a mostly good way).

Those are the guys they showed most prominently.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 26, 2012, 10:40:02 am
Forte looks thin, but cut. He seriously doesn't look like he's much over 200 lbs right now but I'm sure conditioning isn't an issue. He just needs to get back on the weights and start pounding the protein shakes.

If his weight has dropped below 220lbs Logic is going to have a fit and demand that the Bears tear up that new contract.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 26, 2012, 01:36:52 pm
I got to do a search for Logic.  I'm sure he would like to respond to that.  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 26, 2012, 02:01:34 pm
I read where the first item of business for Bears training camp this year was a mandatory conditioning test for all players.  The article said this is the first time that's ever been done in the Lovie era.

I wondered if Emery was going to be upping the ante in that department given his former background, and it looks like he is.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 26, 2012, 03:54:55 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/26/bucs-trade-brian-price-to-bears/

Wow.  Well, there's some DL depth for us but this guy has had a ****-ton of bad luck in his personal life and got into a fight with the Bucs 1st round draft pick at OTAs.  Hope he doesn't bring that mojo down on the Bears.

I'd say if we got him for a 5th rounder or less it was a fair ga*mble.  Anything more than that I'm a little leery.  That last trade we made for a Bucs DL didn't turn out so well... 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 26, 2012, 07:04:29 pm
As in dead.  IMO that's a little past "not well".  (sigh) back to the Fla. teams, I see.  I'm going to go drown myself in the shower.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on July 26, 2012, 07:26:02 pm
We got Brandon Marshall from a Fla team.  Lets not jump off the bridge just yet.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on July 26, 2012, 07:30:09 pm
Or open the bridge just yet as Mr Marshall hasn't caught one official ball yet in a game setting from Mr Cut...... we hope it goes well, but....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 27, 2012, 12:34:19 am

I like the Price deal.  He had 14 starts last season and he's young at 23 so there may be  potential.  And he's probably better than Presley and McCargo and the UDFA.   Now whether he'll amount to anything or if he's even better than Okoye remains to be seen. 

But it looks like Emery may have filled that hole at #4 DT at the cost of a 6th or 7th conditional pick.  At this point in the season...not bad.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 27, 2012, 05:18:21 am
Trib said 7th round pick. But it didnt sound like the guy was healthy. It sounded like he barely passed his conditioning test with the Bucs. How much help can you get from a guy like that?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on July 27, 2012, 05:58:31 am
Okoye is now off the PUP ready to practice and earn a starting gig so the Bucs felt that Price wasn't worth the distraction.  The Bears feel a new scenery will do an oft injured DT starter some good.  Time will tell who's right.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 27, 2012, 07:09:39 am
7th round pick for a guy who was drafted high in the 2nd (35th overall) and still has a lot of years left IF he can stay healthy.

Sounds like a reasonably safe bet to me.  A hell of a lot better than that 2nd rounder the last guy sent Tampa's way. He's another small guy (6'1 and just over 300) but that's the only kind Lovie likes so he looks like a good system fit.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0727-bits-bears-chicago--20120727,0,1815246.story

This Tribune article does a good job recounting the various on- and off-field issues Price has had so far during his pro career. It's a pretty long list of some pretty heavy stuff and the impression I get is that his injuries and personal drama just kind of snowballed down in Tampa and their new HC decided he wasn't worth the trouble anymore. But apparently Emery thinks Price will be able to put it all behind him with a change of scenery. And with what I expect will be no more than a 2-year deal per Emery's SOP, our exposure on this guy should be pretty low. Much like how Emery played it on the OL with Rachal.

So essentially we swapped Okoye and a 7th round pick for Price.  We'll see how that works out.  PFT thinks Price has a chance to start for the Bears but I think he's got a lot of work to do to unseat Paea and Melton who are the starting DTs at this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 27, 2012, 07:32:06 am
Early observations on Bears Training Camp via BleacherReport:

- 4 of the 5 starting OL positions appear to be locked down:  LG Spencer, C Garza, RG Louis, RT Carimi.  Carimi is down about 10 lbs from where he played last year and wearing a knee brace but seems to be moving well.

- Brandon Marshall and Charles Tillman are already going at it (in a good way), getting physical with each other. This should only help both of them come game time. 

- Alshon Jeffery is looking big and fit and catching most everything that comes his way.

- Shea McClellin saw most of his reps with the second team defense and also spent time on the punt block unit. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on July 27, 2012, 11:47:02 am
That's two players of questionable character added by Emery.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 27, 2012, 11:54:24 am
Early observations on Bears Training Camp via BleacherReport:

- 4 of the 5 starting OL positions appear to be locked down:  LG Spencer, C Garza, RG Louis, RT Carimi.  Carimi is down about 10 lbs from where he played last year and wearing a knee brace but seems to be moving well.

- Brandon Marshall and Charles Tillman are already going at it (in a good way), getting physical with each other. This should only help both of them come game time. 

- Alshon Jeffery is looking big and fit and catching most everything that comes his way.

- Shea McClellin saw most of his reps with the second team defense and also spent time on the punt block unit. 

Remember the undrafted WR named Summers if I recall that was discussed a couple months ago?  Has he been cut?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 27, 2012, 01:42:56 pm
Chris Summers -- 6'5 213 UDFA out of Liberty -- is definitely still on the roster and according to reports, very much in the mix to make the team.

In which case he would probably have to prove his worth on special teams and beat out Devin Thomas and/or Dane Sanzenbacher.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 27, 2012, 02:50:59 pm
Nothing much more to add to defend the Price trade then what has already been discussed.

Bears are in a tough spot after losing 2 DTs from last year's squad.  Price played 15 games last year and hasn't had any physical injuries since then.  He's got 2 months to get back into playing shape - I don't believe Emery considers that a big deal.

The risk is the emotional situation - but for a 7th round pick - I think the reward exceeds the risk.
'

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 27, 2012, 03:08:08 pm
I wonder if Price will be subject to the conditioning test the Bears went through their first day of camp this year?  (Since the deal wasn't done till after the Bears opened camp).

They had a conditioning test in Tampa and he failed that one.  Don't know how similar (or different) the Bucs' test is from Lovie's, though.

Price seems like the kind of guy that might be a bit on the ragged edge in terms of his emotional makeup, but he's also gone through quite a bit for a kid that's just 23.  As long as it doesn't cause problems in the locker room I have to prop Emery for taking a calculated risk to fill the 4th DT position that has pretty much been a gaping hole since we let Okoye walk.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 27, 2012, 03:40:46 pm
I think that is likely one advantage of our veteran D too, they can help keep a young guy like that headed in the right direction.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 28, 2012, 01:13:32 am
Chris Summers -- 6'5 213 UDFA out of Liberty -- is definitely still on the roster and according to reports, very much in the mix to make the team.

In which case he would probably have to prove his worth on special teams and beat out Devin Thomas and/or Dane Sanzenbacher.

Thanks for the info.  I'm rooting for him to do good in pre-season and make the team if he's kicking azz in camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 28, 2012, 10:33:25 am
http://www.chicagobears.com/cbn/AllAccess.asp

Good interview with Cutler and Marshall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on July 28, 2012, 12:54:33 pm
From a Tampa Bus site:

Brian Price 'pummeled' Mark Barron, if we are to believe Walter Football's Charlie Campbell. This happened during one of the OTA days for which Price was in attendance. Supposedly, Mark Barron was sitting in Brian Price's seat, Price did not take kindly to that and punched Barron when he refused to leave. JoeBucsFan corroborated the story, but unlike Campbell, the guys over at JoeBucsFan downplay the story: Barron wasn't seriously injured, and it wasn't an extensive fight or beating. Keep in mind that Price has faced tragic circumstances this offseason and has never gotten in trouble before. His sister died, and he had such a hard time coping with that that he was at one point hospitalized. Price missed mandatory training camp to work out on his own in California. Campbell speculates that Price was excused from the mandatory mini-camp in part because of his fight with Barron.

I'm not sure why, exactly, this is now a story, though. That's not to say that I condone beating a guy because he's in your seat, but violent incidents are known to happen during the offseason. Usually, they don't get out, or they're not noteworthy enough to write about. Considering the fact that it took some 10 days or more for this story to come out, this wasn't exactly a high priority issue. Take into account Price's reputation as a good guy and his clean track record, and this really should be treated as an isolated incident and nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on July 28, 2012, 04:49:31 pm
Reminds me of when Kruetz punched his teammate in the jaw. 

Everything worked out after that incident.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Chiman on July 28, 2012, 05:29:47 pm
Fred Miller(broken jaw) may have a different view on that...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 28, 2012, 05:56:51 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/28/report-bears-pursued-otah-before-trade-to-jets/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 28, 2012, 10:26:36 pm
Now thats interesting. So what happens if Otah cant pass a Bears physical? Do you stash him on the pup list?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 29, 2012, 12:42:12 am

Otah is a RT which is a position the Bears appear set with with Carimi.  Did  the Bears want a 3 way battle for LT or did they consider moving Otah to guard where he'd compete against Spencer and Edwin Williams?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on July 29, 2012, 08:46:07 am
Or let Otah play RT and let Carimi battle for LT.  It doesnt really matter, the point is Emery is looking to shore things up.  This is great news. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 29, 2012, 12:32:34 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=3077&play_clip=Y&rn=15

Short clip of high lights from the first practice in pads.  Some nice throws and catches.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on July 29, 2012, 08:17:38 pm
Otah is a RT which is a position the Bears appear set with with Carimi.  Did  the Bears want a 3 way battle for LT or did they consider moving Otah to guard where he'd compete against Spencer and Edwin Williams?

Another interesting question.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 29, 2012, 09:47:19 pm
Bears signed a corner.  Ware.  Like to see bringing in more to look at.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on July 29, 2012, 10:03:26 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=3082&play_clip=Y&rn=4

Small clip from todays practice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 30, 2012, 08:03:32 am
McLellin struggling early in training camp.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/14086081-606/rookie-shea-mcclellin-not-happy-with-start-to-camp.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 30, 2012, 08:12:03 am
Re the Price/Barron incident in Tampa, the best I can piece it together is it went down something like this.

Price came into a meeting during OTAs and Mark Barron (rookie) was sitting in his seat. Price asked him to move. Barron said "F*** you" and things went from there.

Basically a case of a rookie disrespecting a vet and the vet not being in the mood to take it.  I don't think it's that big of deal, plus you have to remember that Raheem Morris' utter lack of leadership left that Bucs lockerroom in an absolute shambles, which their new HC has been spending all offseason trying to put back together.  The Bears lockerroom by all accounts is solid and with guys like Urlacher, Tillman and Peppers I have to think that not only won't Price not go off like that again, but the conditions won't be allowed to exist for something like that to even happen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 30, 2012, 08:14:30 am
Bears signed a corner.  Ware.  Like to see bringing in more to look at.

Yup.  With that guy, the rumblings about Otah, Price, etc. I love the fact that Emery is tinkering with the roster even as training camp is underway.  It puts all 90 guys on notice that anyone could be walking through the door and going after their position at any time.

It seems like there's a sense of urgency and focus in the Bears' training camp this year that hasn't been in years past and I've got to think Emery is having a lot to do with that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 30, 2012, 09:22:13 am
Otah is a RT which is a position the Bears appear set with with Carimi.

Except that Carimi's future durability is very much open to question.  He had health issues in college and only lasted 6 quarters last year.  If he goes down again, with our current OT situation we're pretty much screwed. I don't want to see Lance Louis playing RT for most of another season again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 30, 2012, 12:52:52 pm

Well if you are worried about durability why the hell would you look at Jeff Otah?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 30, 2012, 01:26:22 pm
Well if you are worried about durability why the hell would you look at Jeff Otah?

Point taken. I get the impression the coaches really like that James Brown kid and are putting a lot of stock in him to not only make the team this year, but make a serious push to be on the game day roster.

I saw a training camp report that said Brown was stonewalling McClellin in full-pads scrimmage.  Which either raises a lot of hope for Brown, or some serious concerns about McClellin.

The point being that if Emery thinks he stole a player in Brown, he may not be feeling as much urgency to pursue castoff veteran OTs (i.e., Otah) at this stage of the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on July 30, 2012, 09:05:28 pm
This site has a few fans at camp on its forum.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=743635&page=22
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 30, 2012, 09:26:31 pm
Glad to see everyone thrillled about the Bear first round pick.  Just super.  Course, he's going against that monster Webb.  One more week of this and the gag fest for ole' Shea is on.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on July 31, 2012, 01:37:58 am
Incredible.  The knee jerkers (on that forum along with 46) are out in full force after a couple practices with their opinions on McClellin.

Maybe we should watch him play a preseason game or two first.

A pass rusher can rush the passer 30 or so times a game but if he makes just one sack regardless of what he did for the rest of the game some would say he's had a good day.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 07:27:18 am
Someone on that other forum said it exactly how I feel:  they're not that disappointed in early reports on McClellin cause they didn't expect that much from him to begin with.

Right now it looks like he has the POTENTIAL to be the only black mark on what otherwise has been an offseason for the ages by Mr. Emery.  OTOH maybe he's just hitting the rookie learning curve early (Boise State doesn't exactly play SEC level competition every week)...  and/or maybe just maybe Webb has gotten better and that James Brown guy is pretty good.

1st preseason game will really tell the tale on McClellin. The one thing I know for sure about the kid is that if he never plays up to his draft potential it won't be cause of work ethic or character.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on July 31, 2012, 07:41:22 am
you gotta keep in mind also guys when a guy that is 6'7"/325lbs gets his hands on a 255lb guy, there are a lot of plays that you are going to get snuffed. Remember Marinelli and Lovie like to put guys in tough spots early to check them out. If he gets to where he beats  OTs straight up, imagine what he will do when they line him up outside of that OT and do other schemes to keep the OT from getting a good hand on him.

Bad days of TC = good film for learning.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 07:49:36 am
you gotta keep in mind also guys when a guy that is 6'7"/325lbs gets his hands on a 255lb guy, there are a lot of plays that you are going to get snuffed.

And right there is the concern with McClellin as a 4-3 DE. He's gonna be facing guys that size (or close to it) every week in the NFL and if he can't disengage and/or beat them off the count then our D is basically gonna be playing with 10 guys.

It's why a LOT of NFL scouts considered McClellin a 3-4 OLB at the next level.  Emery obviously saw things differently.

That all being said, I also realize there are guys who play better than they practice (and vice versa), so maybe McClellin is one of those.  And again, it's very early. A lot of draft picks don't light things up their first week of camp... even guys taken in the Top 20. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on July 31, 2012, 08:20:04 am
I was hoping for McClellin for the Packers.  Now, I dunno.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 31, 2012, 08:31:11 am
So... I shouldn't see impressive results right off the bat?  Why not? First round draft pick, why not?  Where's all the speed?  You don't need any instructions for speed.  People knew immediately they got a steal when they saw Richard Dent in camp day one, Brian Urlacher, the same.  I'm waiting now for the obligitory injury.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 10:01:47 am
It definitely makes one want to watch the progress of David DeCastro and Riley Reiff a little more closely.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 11:10:09 am
On a positive note, BleacherReport has Alshon Jeffery #3 on a list of 10 impact players drafted outside the first round.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 12:02:02 pm
FWIW, Otah failed his physical with the Jets so the trade with the Panthers is off.  Otah must be in a bad way cause the Jets need RT help desperately.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on July 31, 2012, 12:47:13 pm
Smart move by the GM not going after Otah.  Got to give him credit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on July 31, 2012, 01:20:22 pm
Funny what people remember.  Brian Urlacher was a bust early on as well.  It wasn't until they moved him from outside to middle linebacker that he flourished in camp.

Give the new kid some time.  Heck he may even be playing out of position.  Maybe the kid would be a monster at LB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 01:47:57 pm
Give the new kid some time.  Heck he may even be playing out of position.  Maybe the kid would be a monster at LB.

I've got to admit, my first thought when they announced McClellin as the Bears pick was that Emery didn't draft McClellin for Lovie; he drafted him for the next guy. And the next guy's gonna be running a 3-4.

I just hope McClellin's not the DL version of Chris Williams where we spend 3-4 years trying to find out where he can play like a Top 20 pick and he never really performs up to that level anywhere.  The fact that they're working him on special teams leads me to believe they're already trying to find ways for him to earn his keep beyond DL because they realize he may not be quite as advertised there. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 02:22:42 pm
Apparently Brandon Marshall has gone on record saying something to the effect that Alshon Jeffery is a better WR at this point in his rookie training camp than Marshall was at the same point in his career.  So that's pretty encouraging.

I think what will happen is that Alshon will overperform expectations as a rookie and McClellin will underperform...  but at the end of the day they both will have made solid contributions as rookies and from your top 2 draft picks that's a reasonable ROI. Even if neither of them are Day One starters as I suspect will be the case. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on July 31, 2012, 02:24:19 pm
#54 was a buster in the first game yes, not in camp. You guys can bag on me all you want, this version of the Bears is running outta time. That kid was supposed to hit the floor running.  I haven't heard that yet from anybody who's seen him. And now were drafting again for tomorrow?  What the hell happened to today?  "Steak yesterday, steak tomorrow, but never steak today". 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 02:26:34 pm
46 speaks truth...  there has been a lot of positive buzz out of OTAs and training camp about various young players but nobody saying much of anything about McClellin. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on July 31, 2012, 03:49:19 pm
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1279795-chicago-bears-camp-notes-kelvin-hayden-pushing-tim-jennings-at-starting-corner

If this article is accurate and he continues to play like this -- and most important if he can stay healthy -- he could be one of Emery's best moves so far. His extra height and length (vs. Jennings) would certainly come in handy against the big WR tandems we'll encounter. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on July 31, 2012, 06:57:10 pm
I think the only thing that will limit Hayden is if he can stay healthy.  Fingers crossed Jennings rides the pine all year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on July 31, 2012, 08:57:32 pm

 Wasent it about McClellin stepping into Urlachers shoes in the future at MLB?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 01, 2012, 01:24:12 am
I dont recall anything like that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 01, 2012, 03:05:55 am
No, there was speculation that could happen but I've never heard anywhere that that was the plan. I did not like the pick but I'll wait to see what he can do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 01, 2012, 03:48:50 am
You can spout off all you want about how you expect production from first round DEs but its rarely the case in the NFL and even moreso in Chicago.   Or have you forgotten about Alonzo Spellman and John Thierry?

As for Richard Dent...he had only 3 sacks his rookie season. 

And Urlacher, the only reason he got into the starting lineup was because Barry Minter got injured.  He did not look good in the PS at SLB and could not unseat Colvin.  Urlacher did play special teams though and that is where his athleticism was evident.

As for McClellin, during the draft I actually prefered the kid out of Illinois.  But until I see the kid play a few games I'm not going to get down on the pick.

I remember liking Mark Anderson in PS years ago and then he had that excellent rookie season.  Then nothing...for years after that.

Maybe McClellin will end up like Trace Armstrong...a really solid DE who makes a pro bowl or two during his career. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 01, 2012, 10:36:49 am
I think the reason we got Jennings in the first place was because Hayden beat him out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 01, 2012, 11:51:17 am
Still spouting- What was expected and what has transpired are not one and the same.  Again, how much longer for this group? Is this another on the bench for a couple of seasons and then play for someone else? Yes, during the draft I was one with a giant WTF, who's that, but I'm not one to try a prove a draft day rant to show how cool I am.  He's hasn't shown alot.  Shouldn't we see that given the otas by now?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 01, 2012, 12:16:52 pm
Actually, I think in the OTAs (non-contact, no pads), McClellin showed pretty well.

It's now with pads on and locking-up with guys of legitimate NFL size that he's getting owned.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on August 01, 2012, 10:25:37 pm
 
 Can someone explain ... how MARK ANDERSON got 10 SACKS with the N.E. Patriots ... last season?

 Oh .. you do remember him? Anyways he's with the Bills.

 We drafted him ... 12 sacks as a rookie.

 Then it went downhill until he got to N.E.

 You would have to ask yourself ... what the fuuuck do they see that we dont ...

 from our own players that we drafted.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 02, 2012, 07:06:51 am
Wasn't Rivera the DC when Anderson got 12 sacks and then we let him go?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 02, 2012, 08:47:01 am
Tribune article today says Webb appears to have the inside track at LT.

Says Chris Wiliams was scheduled to run with the 1s yesterday at LT, but got moved to RT to spell Carimi while Webb stayed in at LT.

Sounds like Williams is headed for a backup swing T spot. Which would make his future with the team beyond this season very tentative.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 02, 2012, 08:58:33 am
Yeah thats what I am reading. Also a note that James Brown the UDFA is working with the 2nd unit on the left side.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-early-signs-point-to-webb-for-left-tackle-job-20120801,0,6378032.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 02, 2012, 09:37:47 am
GET up off of that thing! I feel GOOD, cause I'm supa bad watch me watch me HEY!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 02, 2012, 10:33:46 am
Not that it takes a very good player to make 2nd string on the Bears OL...  but if James Brown is that good then Emery deserves mad props for getting him for basically nothing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 02, 2012, 02:03:24 pm

We all knew that if Williams lost the LT job he would be moved to swing tackle.  I had mentioned that if this was done sooner rather than later that he should get a shot his old LG spot.  Not sure that is going to happen.  If Williams is the swing tackled he might be in jeopardy of not be re-signed next season.

Now, there's a slight chance that if Webb has indeed won the LT job and this James BRown shows anything Williams might be released or traded.  Not likely but a possibility.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 02, 2012, 03:35:14 pm
I think Chris Williams days at G are done, unless we have some catastrophic injuries at that position later in the year. Multiple reports have the interior 3 of Spencer, Garza and Louis pretty much set in stone.

If Williams can do OK at RT, that makes him an emergency option at both T positions and a solid backup at LG.  Being able to backstop 3 OL positions should ensure his place on this team at least this season, and especially with the cap hit we'd take to cut him.  After that, well, it's contract time and I'm figuring he either re-signs with the Bears for 2nd-stringer's money, or we let him walk. The Bears have basically put him in a position of starting at LT or not starting at all, and right now it's not looking good for him.

James Brown is not likely to clear waivers if we put him on the Practice Squad so if he keeps showing well I look for him to make the final 53 though he may not always be active on game days.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 02, 2012, 07:11:38 pm
I liked what Spencer brought from Seattle last year.  He was athletic and our run game clicked with him and Williams manning the guard spots.  The offense took a tumble when Cutler, and Forte, and Williams went down.  I am not sure if Williams loss can be quantified based on the significant loss of Cutler and Forte, but Edwin Willaims was no Chris.

If they are going to move forward with Webb, I have no problem with Williams competing with Spencer.  He may have a more reasonable shot given that the coaching staff wants to see Webb succeed.

Should be interesting, and I don't think this will be settled until several weeks into the season.  The Colts should be as close to a bye as we will ever see.  Can we lose?  Sure.  Should we?  About 99% chance no.  But Green Bay will be a challenge.  Would like to see the oline jell, but don't be surprised if it isn't settled until several weeks into the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 02, 2012, 07:17:16 pm
Otah released...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 02, 2012, 07:41:39 pm
Watched CSN Chicago today when they were live at camp.  From what they say Webb is now the starting LT and Williams is the swing tackle.  The rest of the line is set.  No one has confirmed this only what they are reporting.  Lovie gave his usual say nothing responses but they claim it is Lovie speak for Webb is our LT simliar to Rex is our QB.  Could just be Chicago reporters doing what they do.

McClellan had been struggling but had a better day today.  Had a sack, two tackles for loss and an interception. 

Price better day but still struggling.  Most of the players seem to be rooting for him.  Paea getting lots of praise.

All in all they seem to feel this is a very talented and deep Bears team.  The players do as well.



Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 03, 2012, 05:30:49 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/multimediapopup.asp?mm_file_id=3097&play_clip=Y&rn=11

Day 7 high lights.  Lots of deep balls thrown and caught.  Another nice one handed catch by Brandon Marshall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 03, 2012, 06:45:49 pm
Thanks for posting that.  Talk about raining footballs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 04, 2012, 06:51:39 am
Brandon Marshall predicts Super Bowl

http://www.csnchicago.com/football-chicago-bears/bears-talk/Marshall-predicts-Super-Bowl?blockID=751217&feedID=10330

Oh and get your tickets early. "Enjoy the ride"
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 04, 2012, 10:27:00 am
Here’s a closer look at five who’ve sparkled:

1. OT Cory Brandon, 6-7, 324 pounds, Oklahoma, second NFL season — Entering the 2010 college season, Brandon was on the Outland Trophy watch list. But he plummeted to third team on the depth chart and went undrafted in 2011. His only NFL experience was spending the preseason with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. But since joining the Bears, he has showcased his tantalizing combination of size and athleticism at right tackle.

“Everyone is now seeing what’ll happen when confidence meets ability,” his agent, Mark Magazu, said. “That’s really the difference.”

If Brandon continues his development, he might threaten the job security of Chris Williams, a former first-round pick who is set to make $1 million if he makes the 53-man roster. After initially competing with J’Marcus Webb to start at left tackle, Williams has spent the last few days backing up Gabe Carimi on the right side.

2. OT James Brown, 6-4, 306 pounds, Troy, rookie — A two-year starter at Troy, Brown went undrafted but had at least five teams interested in him. Brown made a decision as soon as he heard from the Bears.

“I was born in Chicago, so this has been my favorite team since Day 1,” Brown said. “This has been a gift from God.”

Born at St. Bernard Hospital on the South Side, Brown’s family moved to Mississippi when he was 5. In 2005, he was a state weightlifting champion.

Brown has fared well against Bears first-round pick Shea McClellin in one-on-one drills, and he has plenty of upside. On Wednesday, he worked as the backup to Webb at left tackle with Williams sliding over to the right side.

“That was a very big surprise,” Brown said. “I found out right before we came out here on the field. I’m feeling pretty good. I’m learning more and more every day.”

3. DT Nate Collins, 6-2, 296 pounds, Virginia, third NFL season ­— An undrafted free agent, Collins started his career with the New York Giants on their practice squad but landed a roster spot with the Jacksonville Jaguars, where he played in 13 games over two seasons. This offseason, more than a half-dozen teams were interested in him, but he signed a one-year deal with the Bears.

On July 20, the NFL announced that Collins had been suspended one game without pay for violating the league’s substance-abuse program.

Collins, though, has shown explosiveness and power, athletic traits that shouldn’t come as a surprise because he played fullback, tailback, tight end, wide receiver, defensive tackle, linebacker and quarterback in high school. Collins also lettered in basketball and baseball.

4. CB Isaiah Frey, 6-0, 190 pounds, Nevada, rookie — Although he’s a draft pick, Frey wasn’t taken until the sixth round, which means he’s far from a shoo-in to secure a roster spot. A three-year starter at Nevada, Frey has distinguished himself with his ferocity. He uses his size well and seems to pick his spots wisely when trying to make a big hit or a big play. As a senior, Frey had 16 pass break-ups and picked off five passes. There seems to be plenty of competition for cornerback spots after Tillman, Tim Jennings and D.J. Moore. Veteran Kelvin Hayden has fared well, and Jonathan Wilhite has had his share of highs and lows.

5. WR Brittan Golden, 5-11, 186 pounds, West Texas A&M, rookie — There are a lot of players ahead of him on the depth chart, but Golden hasn’t been deterred, making his share of highlight catches in camp. He lacks blazing speed but has excellent hands and a knack for making difficult catches in traffic. At West Texas A&M, he finished second in school history with 3,007 receiving yards and scored 33 touchdowns.

Golden also has a great attitude.

“I try to come in every day with the mind-set that I can compete at this level and try to disregard the fact that I’m playing with guys I’ve looked up to my entire life,” he said. “You just got to let that go and realize that you’re here to play, too.”

His goal? “Just have to make an impression and hope the coaches notice,” he said.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 04, 2012, 06:22:54 pm
Chicago Bears Training Camp: Family Fest Highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uipJJRjnhcM)

Chicago Bears Training Camp: Family Fest (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da2G5HeLgSs)

Camp chatter: Friday's results (http://www.csnchicago.com/football-chicago-bears/bears-talk/Camp-chatter-Fridays-results?blockID=751341&feedID=10330) by Moon Mullin/Comcast Sportsnet

Starting cornerback Tim Jennings had rookie Isaiah Frey’s back during Friday night’s practice. After Frey was flagged for an illegal contact on a route by surprising Brittan Golden, Jennings snuck out, picked up the flag and hid it in his uniform. He was found out, however.  Corey Wootton continues to stand out as a pass rusher and right now is clearly the No. 3 defensive end behind Israel Idonije and Julius Peppers. Wootton, who was having a good camp last year before injuries set him back, got the better of Chris Williams in matchups that will not advance Williams’ case for the starting left-tackle job.

Paint it black 'n blue (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/08/04/paint-it-black-n-blue) by Dan Arkush/Profootball Weeky

Clearly, Bears Nation is genuinely pumped, with Marshall making highlight-reel catches on a daily basis at the team’s Bourbonnais, Ill. training camp, and new offensive coordinator Mike Tice offering a much more positive vibe than his predecessor, the prickly Mike Martz.  As for the Bears’ neighbors to the north, I get a strong sense that they’ve paid very close attention to Emery’s aggressive maneuvering. In my role as PFW Packers’ correspondent — as well as being addicted to a couple of terrific public golf courses just north of the border in Kenosha — I talk to a ton of Packers fans on a regular basis.  To a person, lately, the Bears always seem to come up in conversation.  With that in mind, a few days before fellow PFW editor Kevin Fishbain and I take a quick hike to check out the Packers’ training camp, I offer my early take on the five key matchups awaiting us in this season’s Packers-Bears series —

Bears focus on red-zone execution (http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4676856/bears-focus-on-red-zone-execution) by Michael C. Wright/ESPNChicago.com

The Chicago Bears veered off their traditional practice path Friday at Soldier Field by utilizing time typically spent for full team drills to shore up their red zone offense and defense.  The club worked the red zone extensively, devoting a relatively small portion of the workout to a full team session.

“You start off with our receivers. A lot of times it comes down to a jump ball down there (in the red zone),” Bears coach Lovie Smith said.

“Alshon Jeffery (has) good height. Of course, Brandon Marshall, Kellen Davis; we have some good players that can make plays down there. Once you get down there, you need to get touchdowns. That’s why we spent a lot of time down there tonight.”

The Bears finished the 2011 season ranked 12th in red zone offense, scoring 183 points in 38 possessions inside the 20. The Bears scored touchdowns on 52.6 percent of their red zone possessions, and came away with 14 field goals from that distance.  Defensively, the Bears ranked No. 7 in red zone defense, allowing 25 touchdowns and 14 field goals.

Bears offense shines at Family Fest (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2012/08/bears_offense_shines_at_family.html) by Sean Jensen/Suntimes

One of the weak links of the Bears last season was red-zone offense.  So far in training camp, the Bears look much, much better. During practice Friday night at Soldier Field -- with 27,352 fans in attendance -- Jay Cutler looked sharp in the red zone. At one point, he was five-for-five on passes, including a perfect touchdown to receiver Brandon Marshall. He led Marshall, who was defended by safety Chris Conte and linebacker Lance Briggs, toward the goal post. The ball zipped just over Briggs' arm.  The window was small, and Marshall had to make a tricky catch.  It's hard to be critical of the way Conte and Briggs defended the play. It's one of those plays where you just have to tip your hat to the quarterback for making a brilliant throw and the receiver for making a touch catch.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 04, 2012, 06:35:30 pm
OOOOh! Does that sound Superbowlish? Please no injuries this year. I want to see how this plays out. If I were a Pack fan I'd be kind of freaky scared, like the big bad Bears are coming after us and they are growling.

Yup! And it doesnt take a football genius to figure out why Brandon Marshall is predicting a Bears Superbowl. Go Bears! I'm loving this.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 04, 2012, 06:39:08 pm
I am most certainly pumped to see the season play out.  IF the Bears can keep injuries to critical players to a minimum this team has as good a shot as any team in the NFL.

*knock on wood*
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 05, 2012, 03:13:38 pm
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/chicago-bears-2012-n-f-l-season-preview/?partner=rss&emc=rss

A good read.  Although most of us are aware.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 05, 2012, 03:18:58 pm
Good news for Sanzenbacher.  Devin Thomas quit and retired.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 06, 2012, 12:32:14 am
As long as it's not Devin HESTER retiring!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 06, 2012, 08:59:54 am
I wouldnt care about that if Hester isnt going to return kicks or punts. If he isnt going to return kicks or punts Hester should retire
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 06, 2012, 10:23:45 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-wide-receiver-thomas-leaves-bears-20120805,0,3169635.story

But I dont see Summers in the mix mentioned in this article.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 06, 2012, 12:01:14 pm
Interesting:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-bring-back-rashied-davis-20120806,0,1791107.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 06, 2012, 01:18:58 pm
That should make yapper extremely happy!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 06, 2012, 06:30:37 pm
The 46 must express his shock in seeing the beloved on espn.  Cutler was well, gabby almost to a fault, and you could see and well as hear, he likes having that 15 around to throw to.  It really might end up being a fun year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on August 06, 2012, 08:40:00 pm

 ??? Why did Devin Thomas quit and retire?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 06, 2012, 10:04:32 pm
Don't like the sound of this

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14268238-419/brian-urlachers-sore-left-knee-now-a-concern-to-bears.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 07, 2012, 02:05:24 am

I think Devin Thomas saw that the Bears were set at WR with Marshall, Hester, Jeffery and Bennett and possibly others (Weems and this guy Britan) that may have been ahead of him on the depth chart. 

Maybe another year of being a special team only player may have had something to do with his decision. 

As for Rashied Davis, he was a top notc special teamer who could give you some spot WR play.  But you'd like to see one of the youngsters win a roster spot rather than a guy who is 33.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 07, 2012, 02:06:48 am

As for Urlacher, I'm just waiting for the Bears to announce he'll be going under the scope.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on August 07, 2012, 07:52:08 am
arthritis setting in
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 07, 2012, 08:12:51 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/07/urlacher-misses-sixth-straight-practice/


Got to admit I was thinking the exact same thing.  I bet he took the personal day to go see a doctor not employed by the Bears!  Not good...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on August 07, 2012, 11:58:22 pm

 In the long run ... McClellin at MLB?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 08, 2012, 01:31:25 am

I recall Nick Roach getting the nod last time Urlacher was out - it didin't work out too well as they ended up replacing Roach with Hunter Hillenmayer in the middle.

Maybe he's getting a 2nd opinion or maybe they just told him to take a week off so as to not be a distraction by watching practice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 08, 2012, 09:20:49 am
They do still have that 2nd year player they drafted out of West Virginia on the roster dont they? He seems to fit the bill as MLB caliber. I'd expect Briggs to be making the defensive calls. It'll be interesting to see how the Bears deal without Urlacher tomorrow
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 08, 2012, 09:27:46 am
In the long run ... McClellin at MLB?

I dont believe he has the body for it. He is more of a 3/4 OLB type than an inside guy. I would highly doubt he ends up as Urlacher's replacement.

What the Bears see in McClellin is an outside speed rusher.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 08, 2012, 10:02:04 am

McClellin actually does have the physical attributes of a LB at 6-3 255 and 4.6 speed.  He would have to absolutely flop at DE before they'd even consider the move to a 4-3 linebacker.

It will be interesting to watch the careers of McClellin and Nick Perry of the Packers.  I've heard reports that both have struggled at their NFL positions.  Maybe the Bears and Packers should have executed a trade as Perry appears to be more at home rushing with his hand down and McClellin may have more versatility and instincts as a 3-4  guy.

Nah...

Dom DeCicco will see plenty of action at MLB tomorrow night.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 08, 2012, 11:41:11 am
My understanding is they will move Roach to the middle and Geno Hayes will take his place at OLB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on August 08, 2012, 02:04:48 pm
Preseason hasn't even started and we're talking about injuries...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 08, 2012, 03:38:14 pm
They do still have that 2nd year player they drafted out of West Virginia on the roster dont they? He seems to fit the bill as MLB caliber. I'd expect Briggs to be making the defensive calls. It'll be interesting to see how the Bears deal without Urlacher tomorrow

JT Thomas was the guy I thought was supposed to be the heir apparent to Urlacher, but Dallas could be right about DeChico getting the bulk of the MLB work tomorrow
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 08, 2012, 04:41:39 pm
Roach filling in nicely for Urlacher
 
Posted: 8/7/2012 8:24:00 PM
Nick Roach insists that moving from his strongside position to play middle linebacker in place of Brian Urlacher the past week in practice hasn’t required much of an adjustment.

“It isn’t too much different because a lot of times we’re just running through or gap or taking on blockers or dropping,” Roach said. “All the linebacker movements aren’t all that much different.

“There’s just a lot more vocal communication. We all communicate as a defense to each other, but now you have to start off a lot of the checks and getting people lined up.”

After missing four straight practices with knee soreness, Urlacher has been excused from workouts the last two days due to an undisclosed personal reason. Roach started three games at middle linebacker in 2009 after Urlacher suffered a season-ending injury and is gaining more valuable experience at the position in camp.

“We like our depth,” said coach Lovie Smith. “Nick Roach is our backup ‘Mike’ linebacker. He had an outstanding day [Monday]. Nick’s played good, winning football around here for us.”

Last season Roach started 15 of 16 games played at strongside linebacker, recording 61 tackles and six tackles-for-loss. He isn’t concerned that filling in for Urlacher will keep him from improving at his regular position.

“I don’t think so,” Roach said. “When you’re at middle, you’re thinking about your position but you know where everybody else is anyway, and even playing strongside I have to know where Brian and [weakside linebacker] Lance [Briggs] are to adjust my own fits. I don’t think it will hurt too much.”

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 08, 2012, 05:14:17 pm
So where does JT Thomas pencil in?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 08, 2012, 08:19:44 pm
Looking forward to seeing McLellin, Conte's progress and what Hardin looks like tomorrow.

The offense will be interesting.   The starters won't play much, but it'll be fun to see Jeffrey, Bush, the new project OL guys, and if Kellen Davis has learned to run pass routes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 08, 2012, 08:52:09 pm
The starters won't play much, but it'll be fun to see Jeffrey, Bush, the new project OL guys, and if Kellen Davis has learned to run pass routes.

Certainly Cutler, Forte and Marshall won't play more than a series or two, but the offensive line could play more - certainly Webb.

Not sure about JT Thomas, probably an OLB, but not sure if he's a sam or a will.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 09, 2012, 09:09:25 am
I would like to hope we see more of the rookies to get them some game seasoning.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 09, 2012, 10:17:39 am
On the road and no NFL Network to watch Bears vs Broncos.  Anywhere to watch the game online - free?  I am not paying the money to watch preseason on NFL.com...

Thanks for any assistance.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on August 09, 2012, 10:48:31 am
It's only 20 bucks for the 4 games..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on August 09, 2012, 10:52:05 am
You can listen on Sirius XM
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 09, 2012, 10:54:07 am
I dont know if its on Fox nationally or not.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on August 09, 2012, 10:54:22 am
I like watching preseason. By now I have a deep hunger for Bear football, I like to see who's new on the team, which new players seem to have it together. If I can drop $20 on lunch for 3 of us at a fast food place, I can pay it to watch my team. I used to get it all free on my big dish (that doesn't even work anymore)...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 09, 2012, 11:31:27 am
You can listen on Sirius XM

Do you know what channel?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 09, 2012, 01:03:58 pm
I am already getting the Ticket, so I don't want to drop anymore.  I am recording it, so I'll just watch it when i get home Saturday.

Alright, here is a gripe.  It really grinds my gears when NFL Network runs the scroll on the bottom game I am watching.  It only affects the preseason games, but since they broadcast them all at some point I like to watch and not know the score.  At some point, I look into the flame which is the scroll...

So you can be watching the replay of the Bears/Broncos tonight at 11pm and if the pattern holds the NFLN will be showing the up to date completed score since the game starts earlier.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davep on August 09, 2012, 01:07:33 pm
Put a piece of masking tape over the screen where the scroll takes place.  As I remember, it is always in the same place on the screen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on August 09, 2012, 02:11:18 pm
I hear ya on the not wanting to spend more money. I figured what the heck, this way I can watch it anytime. I stream stuff from my ipad, great picture..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on August 09, 2012, 03:57:25 pm
It's preseason - I'd rather watch the replay than the live broadcast...

8:30 PM ET    Denver Broncos    Chicago Bears    SXM Internet 809    SXM 229 (Internet 805)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on August 09, 2012, 05:20:45 pm
NFLN replay of the game is kind of interesting. Usually you get the home town announcing crew for the 1st half (tonite Jim Miller I think and not sure who else), followed by the visiting team announcing crew in the 2nd half. Kind of neat to see homers for the OTHER team and the comments they can make :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: JBN on August 09, 2012, 05:22:07 pm
Denver Broncos - 80, Chicago Bears 3
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on August 09, 2012, 06:00:32 pm
It's preseason - I'd rather watch the replay than the live broadcast...

8:30 PM ET    Denver Broncos    Chicago Bears    SXM Internet 809    SXM 229 (Internet 805)


Yep.  You can still watch the rookies and how they perfom.  As far as I'm concerned that's the main thing to see in pre-season games.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 09, 2012, 08:42:50 pm
a JBN sighting!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 09, 2012, 08:52:35 pm
I missed his negative attitude.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 10, 2012, 12:20:09 am
I'm going with a 11-5 record for the home team this year.  The offense is suspect but if it's all that it's advertised then my prediction will stand.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 10, 2012, 02:59:45 am

I am in Illinois and was able to watch the game live at my sister's house.  But I had to watch it without a DVR which means no slo mow or replay.   Which for this game was a good thing.

Offensive line looked pretty bad.  J'Marcus Webb played 3 quarters - and into the 2nd half with 2nd stringers.  He looked so-so.

Defensive line didn't look much better though Wooten looked pretty good in limited play.  McClellin was all over the place - he's very active but got buried in a goal line run.   And DE Ozougwu also shined.

A couple of the 3rd string DTs looked active but newcomer Price from the Bucs looked out of shape.  McCargo did not look good but FA Collins did. 

2nd round pick Jeffrey looked pretty good with several short catches and Summers had a nice long catch.  And I liked Blanchard at QB. 


Hard to find many bright spots in this game.  Hopefully this loss sends the team a message that the addition of Marshall alone isn't going to make them a better team. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 10, 2012, 06:50:01 am
I did record, so I'll watch it Sunday.

From a paying fan's perspective, that had to be tough to swallow for the Bears to sit nearly everyone of importance.  I say, drop preseason tickets to a very low amount, and don't make season ticket holders pay for them.  It is the biggest legal robbery going on right now.  In sports, that is...  Let's not get into the gasoline debbate!  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 10, 2012, 07:39:21 am
If the OL looks that bad again next week then youve really got to start questioning Emery and Tice's refusal to upgrade personnel on that unit this offseason. You can scheme all you want but at some point you need guys that can play.
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on August 10, 2012, 08:47:43 am
Replay on again in 15 minutes...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 10, 2012, 09:26:53 am
Webb and Spencer did not impress.

I expect we'll have a good season too but there will be a lot of "what the hill were you thinking" with regard to Tice and Emery's decision not to get some competion for those guys.

McClellin looked to me like a great middle linebacker trying to play DE.  He's got all of the skills as advertised but at 260 can't do much against the run right at him.

Manning had all day against our starting OL, although they had a lot of double teams so maybe it's unfair to make any comments on that.

Saw some of Packers Chargers.  Nick Perry had moments where he looked like the real deal.  Pack lost  a starting LB Desmond Bishop carted off the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 10, 2012, 10:07:11 am
I was thinking the same thing about McClellin, he looks like a great LB.  He really got pancaked inside but has a great motor.  And Manning just disected our cover who.  And I didnt think his arm looked that good.  And did Jason Campbell remind anyone else of Shane Mathews last night? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on August 10, 2012, 06:33:37 pm
Watched game, my thoughts:

Our Oline and Dline are worrisome.  We could not run the ball and on D we could not stop the run.  McClellan looked like a good smart football player...but I agree...he looks like a LB trying to play DE.  We need to put him at LB IMO.

Major Wright hurt again...enough said.

M. Bush was not impressive this game.

I like seeing Marshall out there and Jefferies.  Man gotta love their size.

I thought Hardin and Frey both looked good for later round picks in their first game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 10, 2012, 08:10:05 pm
J'Marcus Webb, who has started 28 games over the last two seasons and essentially has the starting left tackle job again by default, was on the field for 41 of 49 offensive snaps in the 31-3 loss to the Broncos at Soldier Field. He even blocked for fourth-string quarterback Matt Blanchard, an undrafted rookie.


Great, Tice is sending a message that Webb sucks.  Nice.  And Spencer played the whole first half.  Thanks for the upgrades on the OL. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 10, 2012, 08:13:03 pm
If Webb did not impress, then Williams deserves an opportunity.  He was a solid left guard last year.  Why has Spenscer been handed that job?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 10, 2012, 08:15:34 pm
The Trib article says Williams isnt going to get a chance for LT.  Swing at best.  I agree, they should let Williams play where he was doing good last year.  Of course Spencer is a center by trade and we are playing him at G.  Maybe Tice just wants to see some people at different spots.  But pretty telling he let Web play 41/49 plays. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 10, 2012, 08:18:23 pm
A lot of people are down on him because he was drafted 11 overall.  That is not his fault, that is on the scouting department.  Spencer was picked up off the wiaver wire last year and performed admirably.  Do not hand him the job, I thought Williams played a solid LG last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on August 10, 2012, 09:13:54 pm
Didn't we trade for Spencer?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 11, 2012, 06:41:51 am
Just looked it up.  He was signed as a FA last year, though he was drafted in the 1st round by Seattle 7 years ago.  I am not down on Spencer, I thought he was a bright spot as an acquisition last season after we released Kreutz.  I am just saying that Williams played well last year at the LG spot and also went down around the time of the Cutler and Forte injuries.  I don't know what Spencer did to earn the right not to compete, and it is apparent that Webb is being handed the Left Tackle spot.

That said and with the performance this past Thursday, I don't think the oline is settled and we may see a little more "real" competition over the next two weeks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 11, 2012, 07:02:29 am
Spencer, a natural C, has been played out of position his entire time with the Bears. Garza, although also playing out position at C,  did well enough there last year that he has the lock on that job. Spencer will either have to perform at starting caliber at OG, or head to the bench in favor of someone who can.

When all is said and done wouldn't surprise me to see Webb and C. Williams as our left side tandem... Same as last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 11, 2012, 07:14:54 am
Bears (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012080956/2012/PRE1/broncos@bears#menu=highlights&tab=analyze) were 0 for 11 on 3rd down.  Denver was 8 of 16.  yuck.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 11, 2012, 07:25:24 am
From what I heard we didnt get close to Manning while he was in there. And thats against a not great Bronco OL with sub refs more inclined to call holding by the book.

Not good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 11, 2012, 09:32:47 am
Wasn't that without Peppers playing?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 11, 2012, 11:43:48 am
Yes Peppers didnt play. I don believe Izzy played much either
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 11, 2012, 01:25:44 pm
Izzy was in there most of the first quarter.

I was disgusted at first but after watching  the first part a second time as well as 7-8 other games I will say......

Denver was in max protect with Manning and usually 3 of the 4 DL were double teamed

Our D ran no stunts or blitzes that i saw.  Other teams were twisting and blitzing from the start.  Our D was the most vanilla I've seen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 11, 2012, 03:10:47 pm
Bears add linebacker depth, signing Xavier Adibi and K.C. Asiodu (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2012/08/bears_sign_lb_xavier_adibi.html)

According to the Trib, Williams is back practicing at LT and Url is back at training camp but did not participate in practice

McClellin is the defensive end everyone is focusing on but two others made plays. Corey Wootton, starting in place of Julius Peppers, drew a holding penalty against Broncos left tackle Ryan Clady.

“Peyton (Manning) gets creamed or I take 10-yard penalty?” Clady said, according to Mike Klis of the Denver Post. “Peyton gets clobbered or I maul this guy?” (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-biggs-10-thoughts-on-bears-preseason-opener-20120810,0,4470552,full.story)

Wise choice. Cheta Ozougwu also had success rushing off the edge. He was credited with a sack and two quarterback hits after showing up on occasion during training camp. He’s making the transition to defensive end after playing inside linebacker for the Houston Texans in preseason last summer as a seventh-round pick before a foot injury sidelined him. He’s a little undersized to play defensive end but that is what the Bears seek.

“Whenever you have an opportunity you have to make the most out of it so I just take it a play at a time and God will take care of the rest,” Ozougwu said. “I have to continue to be consistent and continue to work on my rush and play the run better. I’m not saying I haven’t progressed but I have to continue to get better.”

Ozougwu tweaked his ankle late in the game but said he expects to be fine. He played as a stand up defensive end at Rice so he’s got familiarity playing end. He will have to remain quick off the edge to stick out.

-----------------------

Ryan Clady rips 'rookie' replacement ref for holding call, is completely wrong (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19768732/ryan-clady-rips-rookie-replacement-ref-for-holding-call-is-completely-wrong)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 11, 2012, 03:17:44 pm
I would recommend muting the Manning slurp fest, but this shows a good chunk of Manning's first drive.  Doesn't show the holding call.  For the most part he had enough time back there to read Tragedy and Hope.  Yes, I know...no Peppers, 1st preseason game yada yada :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7xFhwgok4E
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 11, 2012, 03:31:47 pm
Encouraged to see Williams at LT, not because I think Chris Williams is a better LT , but more that the Bears finally realize that there is a problem that needs to be addressed whether a roster cut somewhere in the NFL or come next years draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 11, 2012, 05:08:03 pm
fix it, sooner the better.  I remember when I thought it was all good when we got Orlando Pace.  Yes, I admit being dumb in matters of pro football.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 11, 2012, 08:55:50 pm
I don't know if there is time to "fix it".

It's not like there's a better player out there to call.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 11, 2012, 09:20:02 pm
At least not at this time there isnt
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 11, 2012, 10:21:53 pm
So, now is the time to start the rant about why didn't the Bear draft a OT instead of the BS kid?  Cutler will (again!) get smashed to the ground at inopportune moments?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 12, 2012, 02:03:30 am
I didn't see much of the game but I did see a play where McClellin ran down the QB and instantly thought he looked just like Urlacher doing that. It may be that he'll be groomed as Url's replacement.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 12, 2012, 06:06:14 am
Well he doesnt look so hot as a DE right now. Speed he has, that we've seen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 12, 2012, 07:01:44 am
I watched a lot of the game last night, I think McClellin looked good during his first opportunity.  One sack didn't define his impact, he was in the backfield quite a bi and putting pressure on in the pocket.  I think building his confidence is the ony thing missing along with some seasoning.

Jeffrey looks like he belongs, and he backed it up on Saturday from what I read. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 12, 2012, 09:33:07 am
Hopefully this is nothing:

With Urlacher’s health still in question, Bears add linebacking depth
Posted by Mike Florio on August 11, 2012, 3:29 PM EDT
 
APDespite the fact that Bears linebacker Brian Urlacher has returned to camp, he still isn’t practicing.  Thus, the team is making plans for the possibility of an ongoing inability to practice and play, adding a pair of linebackers on Saturday.

Joining the team are Xavier Adibi and K.C. Asiodu.

Adibi, a middle linebacker who has played for the Texans and Vikings, entered the league as a fourth-round draft pick from Virginia in 2008.  Minnesota claimed Adibi on waivers last September, after he was released by the Texans, who were switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4.  He started five games as a rookie and three in 2010, before appearing in only four games last year.

Asiodu has played for the Rams and Saints, primarily on special teams.  He was out of football last season after being cut by the Packers.

The Bears also added defensive end Aston Whiteside and waived defensive end Ronnie Cameron and cornerback Jeremy Ware.

   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 12, 2012, 03:31:15 pm
Brian Urlacher: 'I'll be ready' for Bears' opener (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2012/08/brian_urlacher_ill_be_ready_fo.html)

''The first four or five days it felt pretty good and then it got sore and started swelling,'' Urlacher told reporters. ''So I'm taking some time off right now.

He said the injured knee feels better than it did, but didn't sound like he was ready to return to practice.

''I've been off for nine, 10 days now. It feels better. When I'm not running around on it, of course it's not going to swell up as bad.''

He did not say whether he had any further tests on the knee since it became a problem.

''My doctors are the best. I trust what they say,'' Urlacher said. ''I just do what I'm told to do.''

He said he was not concerned the knee will be a recurring issue once he gives it the proper rest. ''No. Once I'm back out there, we'll monitor my reps and try to make sure it doesn't blow up again.''

It remains to be seen if Urlacher's knee will be 100 percent. It's likely his practice time -- and perhaps playing time -- will have to be managed this season.

''I hope it's 100 percent,'' he said. ''I felt great coming into training camp. The brace doesn't allow me to do a lot of things, but I still ran pretty fast and moved around pretty good.''

----------------------------

I'm all for saving Url until the Packers game.

Paea in a walking boot (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-paea-in-walking-boot-after-injury-20120812,0,7003797.story) and could not finish practice yesterday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 12, 2012, 03:39:12 pm
Watching those clips of the Manning drive.. Other than the TD saving INT looks like the same old *****ty Bears pass D to me.

DT push up the middle was nonexstent and coverage was terrible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 12, 2012, 05:37:00 pm
Man what is it with Paea?

Dude has beast potential but can't stay out of the training room.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on August 12, 2012, 08:29:13 pm

 Cutler,Forte,Marshall,Urlacher,Peppers ...

 didnt see em play.

 I'm waiting.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 12, 2012, 08:37:44 pm
I guess Urlachers knee has been swelled up.  That is why he is not practicing.  Claims he will be ready for the first real game against the Colts.

How much you want to bet it swells up again after that game and he limps through the rest of the season half assed not practicing and missing games here and there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 12, 2012, 09:37:27 pm
Brian Urlacher: 'I'll be ready' for Bears' opener (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2012/08/brian_urlacher_ill_be_ready_fo.html)

''The first four or five days it felt pretty good and then it got sore and started swelling,'' Urlacher told reporters. ''So I'm taking some time off right now.

He said the injured knee feels better than it did, but didn't sound like he was ready to return to practice.

''I've been off for nine, 10 days now. It feels better. When I'm not running around on it, of course it's not going to swell up as bad.''

He did not say whether he had any further tests on the knee since it became a problem.

''My doctors are the best. I trust what they say,'' Urlacher said. ''I just do what I'm told to do.''

He said he was not concerned the knee will be a recurring issue once he gives it the proper rest. ''No. Once I'm back out there, we'll monitor my reps and try to make sure it doesn't blow up again.''

It remains to be seen if Urlacher's knee will be 100 percent. It's likely his practice time -- and perhaps playing time -- will have to be managed this season.

''I hope it's 100 percent,'' he said. ''I felt great coming into training camp. The brace doesn't allow me to do a lot of things, but I still ran pretty fast and moved around pretty good.''

----------------------------



Well that should make Chris27 very sad.  He hates Urlacher.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on August 13, 2012, 07:45:02 am
I agree with Pekin, Urlacher will be fighting the knee all season..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 13, 2012, 08:40:16 am
It would be nice if Urlacher would go and see Cutlers Dr instead of the three stooges the bears have employed for years. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 13, 2012, 09:39:08 am
I would bet that until that knee has surgery Urlacher will be a shell of his former self.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 13, 2012, 09:53:22 am
Remember, we live in the 21st century.  Chemistry, as applied to injuries is a wonderful thing. Hell, he could have been scoped on those days off and now is rehabbing right in front of everbody.  On a more puzzling note, a Trib roundtable today has the Bears "running the ball like crazy"  The Bears got Marshall, Cutler's old coach, and Jeffery so they could "run the ball like crazy"?  Don't you need, I don't know, competent offensive lineman to do that? Why didn't the Bears get some of those?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 13, 2012, 09:59:23 am
I can see it now, Dr Moe, Larry,and Curly have a little Urlacher doll, and have put a bandaide on its knee.  They are probably chanting.heal, heal, heal....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 13, 2012, 10:13:07 am
I have a feeling Urlacher will be getting a lot of the Tommie Harris treatment this year...  little to no preseason work, days off practice during the week, etc.

I just hope it translates to better play on game days than it did for Tommie.

I'm just so p*ssed he was even playing that last game against Minnesota.  The game meant absolutely nothing and he'd be sound as a dollar today if Lovie had sat him out that game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 13, 2012, 11:12:15 am
I'm sure Urly insisted that he play in that game.  I can't blame the coach for a freak accident.  Things happen unfortunately.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 13, 2012, 04:15:03 pm
http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/North-Carolina-reviewing-possible-transcript-for-Julius-Peppers-081312.  Was Butch Davis coach then?  A S.E. football team that may have violated ncaa rules. I'm so surprised. Really though, after the horror at the Penn State cesspit, does any of this really matter at all?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 14, 2012, 01:54:06 am

McClellin showed that he needs to build up a bit more strength to play the run.  Most likely he won't be a 3 down guy THIS year and just come in on obvious passing downs like DJ Moore who plays about 50% of the snaps.

But its way to premature to project him as a 4-3 LB.  He's got some pass rush ability - certainly more than Urlacher ever showed when they tried lining him up at DE early in his career.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 14, 2012, 07:25:39 am
Speed kills and he's got it and quickness......if he can't find his groove at DE he can certainly find a spot with the LB's.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 14, 2012, 07:45:26 am
So now Chris Williams is running with the 1s at LT.

Translation:  we don't have a starting caliber LT.  It's come down to just figuring out which guy sucks less than the other.

Too bad.  This offense could have really been something special this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 14, 2012, 09:51:40 am
I know Phill will appreciate this

Telling it like it is
 
After a shaky start by the Bears offensive line, Mike Tice not pulling punches
 

Updated: August 14, 2012, 12:03 AM ET
 By Jon Greenberg | ESPNChicago.com

BOURBONNAIS, Ill. -- Everyone could use a little Mike Tice in their lives.

You think those pants make you look fat? Ask Tice.

"You look like 10 pounds of potatoes in a five-pound sack. Take those off."

Not sure about that best man speech? Listen to Tice.

"Don't lead with that Tijuana anecdote. You sound like a moron. What's wrong with you? Your grandma is here."

Unsure if there's an open competition at left tackle for the team you cover? Tice will set you straight.

"I know it rained. Did you not go to the game? You went to the game right? OK, you saw the same thing I saw. I have trouble sleeping at night until I know that our quarterback is protected."

The first two quotes are made up. The third one is all too real.

Tice is Joe Biden with a Long Island accent, a giant-sized Joan Rivers with the practice field his red carpet. You might remember him as the permissive Minnesota Vikings coach who scalped his Super Bowl tickets and always had a pencil behind his ear, but he could be a godsend to a Chicago Bears team unable to find a consistent offensive identity, even with Jay Cutler under center.

For the Bears' offensive players, Tice is a refreshing change, in several ways, from the man he replaced at the offensive coordinator position, Mike Martz. For reporters, Tice is the Last Honest Man in a business in which obfuscation with the media is the standard.

With the additions of Brandon Marshall rookie Alshon Jeffery and running back Michael Bush, and the return of Cutler and Matt Forte, the Bears' offense should be much improved from the Jekyll & Hyde tenure of the Martz era, in which the OC seemed removed from the reality of the team's limitations. Expectations are essentially Super Bowl or bust, if everyone remains healthy. That makes Tice, who will still coach the offensive line as well as oversee the offense, a very important person at Halas Hall. He knows what this team can and can't do, and it's his job to make it work. Good thing his deep voice comes in loud and clear.

The new Straight Talk Express rolled into the media pack on a rainy Monday at Bears training camp and delivered some truly memorable sound bites, which for the Bears beat, is a rare occurrence. Tice didn't wait for questions, speaking extemporaneously for three minutes about last week's preseason-opening loss to Denver. Coordinators only speak once a week, which is a shame, but it looks like Tice's chats will be appointment listening, a 180 from Martz's nonsense.

Tice didn't disappoint when talking about the left tackle slap fight, I mean battle, between J'Marcus Webb and Chris Williams. Webb played into the fourth quarter of Thursday's game, which is almost unheard of for a so-called starter. Williams has been working as a starter in practice. Both will get work with the first team this Saturday in the team's second preseason game against the Washington Redskins.

"The left tackle position, I know some people have said I'm sending a message to J'Marcus," Tice said. "You have to understand how I work. There's no message being sent.

"Anything that goes on with the players, they know up front in the meeting. They know how much they're going to play. They're told why there's competition at certain positions. They're told, each day, where we need to see them improve in what areas. There's no secrets. I don't operate like that. Message? Subliminal message? There's none of that going on."

No subliminal messages, eh?

"Chris [Williams] is over there on the left side," Tice said. "I felt Chris had a solid game. I didn't feel like the other player was up to par, as far as the standards we're trying to set to protect our quarterbacks."

"The Other Player." Might be a better nickname for the embattled Webb than his Twitter nom de guerre, "JWebb Nation."

When Tice was informed by a reporter Webb has a kind of "swagger" off the field, Tice ****, "I wonder why."

"I can't worry about Webb Nation and all the other things he does socially," Tice said. "That's not for me. He's a grown man. I just want him to play better football for us."

Webb is surely used to this kind of talk considering it's Tice's third year coaching the offensive line.

"I think it's a little shocking for some positions, but we're used to him on the O-line," right tackle Gabe Carimi said of Tice. "He always tries to give it you straight. He doesn't like to bounce around what he's thinking. You usually have more than enough information. Sometimes that hurts."

Carimi said he can't do a Tice impression (nearly every reporter has a good one), but he does like one Tice-ism.

"He tells us to work your trade every day," Carimi said. "Every day that's the first thing he puts on the board, 'Work your trade.'"

Tice's trade has been difficult the past few years as he's been given a motley crew of linemen. He mentioned Carimi and guard Lance Louis in a positive light Monday, but as for the rest, Tice admitted he has to "play the hand you're dealt." Not exactly encouraging words, but Tice's stark honesty is buttressed by his love of coaching and making players better.

"What's great about him [is] he's one of those guys who will get after you," tight end Matt Spaeth said. "He'll get excited and he'll yell at you and whatever. But at the same time, he'll take you aside and high-five you when you do a good job, and [if you do a bad job], explain it to you and make sure that doesn't happen again."

Receiver Devin Hester likes Tice so far, because the coach is funny, approachable and has made it clear he's looking to highlight playmakers like, say, Hester.

"[Tice] is pretty much straight-forward. You're going to know whether or not you're doing good or bad," Hester said. "He's not going to sugar-coat anything. He'll let you know. He's not afraid to put you out in front of everybody."

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The work-in-progress offense, which looked abysmal doing simple execution in its first public showing sans Cutler and Forte, will be similarly direct, Hester said.

"Less thinking, more simple," Hester said. "Kind of like any offense, try to utilize your players. Try to find a way to get key guys the ball in their hands and get into the open field in one-on-one match-ups."

Tice has an open-door policy and is more of a player's coach than Martz, whom Hester described as "an older-type guy." This is by design.

"In my career I was mostly a backup," Tice said. "I didn't really enjoy playing for the coaches that told me what I wanted to hear. I'd rather be told, 'You can't run. You're going to be in there when we're blocking' or whatever. As opposed to some guy telling me some crap that I knew was B.S.

"So it's very important, I think, that there's an honesty and a communication line so the players know exactly where they stand. Not B.S. where they stand, but really where they stand. That's why I said the things about the mind games. There are no mind games. Ask the guys. I tell them everything. It's keep it real and here it is, and this is what I'm seeing. And if you don't like it, fix it."

Tice got his biggest laughs Monday when he delivered the staple joke of any stand-up set: The nagging wife bit.

"We always love our wives because they keep us grounded," he said. "She said to me yesterday, 'Gosh I see you guys score a lot of touchdowns in the red zone [in practice].' I said, 'Yeah we have some weapons.' She said, 'Why don't you try getting down there a little bit more.' Gotta love your wife, right? We went to high school together, so she's allowed to say that. My daughter's tougher. She's 25. She's a lot tougher."

I guess even Mike Tice needs a little Tice in his life. When does his wife address the media next? Because we need more Tice too. Honesty, after all, is always the best possibility.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 14, 2012, 09:52:55 am
Tice sounds like my kind of guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 14, 2012, 09:55:21 am
Webb has to understand that nothing in life is given to you. Just because you look like a LT doesnt mean you are one. You have to play like a chammpion in order to be a champion.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 14, 2012, 10:08:34 am
Urlacher has knee surgery (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-urlacher-knee-surgery-20120814,0,2061662.story)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 14, 2012, 10:13:08 am
"The other player" responds to Tice on the inter-webb (http://www.facebook.com/JMarcusWebb/posts/10151036974408246)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 14, 2012, 10:26:23 am
So he had the procedure and is stonewalling it? Why deny it? What good does that do?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 14, 2012, 10:29:46 am
"The other player" responds to Tice on the inter-webb (http://www.facebook.com/JMarcusWebb/posts/10151036974408246)

Haha
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 14, 2012, 10:53:14 am
Somebody posted here awhile back about waiting to hear the news about the knee operation.  Props to you.  Thanks for post that, as well as the proclimations from Webb.  At some point I'm sure he'll grow up a realize that its best to say nothing. Probably when he's in the arena league.  Honestly, the twitterverse is tiresome.  I don't care what you think.  Keep it to yourself.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 14, 2012, 10:56:49 am
Black Swan event:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-urlacher-knee-surgery-20120814,0,2061662.story

This is starting to look like Tommie Harris all over again.  Bears chronic mismanagement of the health of their key players continues...

It's a good thing our O can score some points (assuming a legit LT), cause I have a feeling we're gonna need lots of 'em this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 14, 2012, 11:26:17 am
Absolutely ridiculous. Why is it they wait till the fricking season is almost here and THEN, HEY let's see if Brian is ready to go? Idiots! They should have done this TWO FRIGGIN MONTHS ago!! He should have been out there jogging, running, cutting, seeing if the knee holds up and then dealt with it then. But NOOOO not the BEARS. They'll wait to find this out when it's too late. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he sits two or three games because of this idiocy. Just terrible health management on this team.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 14, 2012, 11:26:28 am
VJ already posted that link above Yapp
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 14, 2012, 11:29:39 am
Sporty, but Urlacher is stonewalling the issue declaring he has had no surgery. I am more worried about the denial than the actual surgery.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 14, 2012, 11:33:09 am
Just terrible health management on this team.....

Yup.  And don't forget Peppers had some pretty gimpy knees by the end of last season too.  Wouldn't surprise me if we hear about him having something done between now and opening day too.

Emery needs to call a meeting with the Bears medical staff and read them the riot act on this one.  They had the entire offseason to have Urlacher ready to go by this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 14, 2012, 11:47:02 am
The other thing that really stinks about this is that the scrubs behind Urlacher are not only not as good as Urlacher, they're not as good as most NFL caliber starters...  meaning our new offense will be practicing against a significantly lower-caliber LB unit then they are likely to face in most of our games this season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 14, 2012, 02:14:27 pm
« Reply #2587 on: August 07, 2012, 02:06:48 am »

As for Urlacher, I'm just waiting for the Bears to announce he'll be going under the scope.


Actually, neither Urlacher or the Bears announced it, right?  Why should we be surprised, especially when Lovie ever makes a statement  concerning injuries?  Think back to Carimi and Bennett just last season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 14, 2012, 03:04:20 pm
That's why I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop...  probably regarding Peppers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 14, 2012, 03:42:35 pm
Some more info..... aaannnd bingo on the Tommie Harris treatment. 
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brian-urlacher-chicago-bears-linebacker-has-knee-surgery-081412
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on August 14, 2012, 09:55:30 pm
Maybe a bit early....but I believe we will look back at this as the beginning of the end of Urlacher's career.  Something tells me he will never be the same.

I personally would like to see what McCellan could do as linebacker and possible fill a void.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 14, 2012, 10:03:53 pm
I don't see them doing it but McClellin is a bigger faster Urlacher.  Plus he played LBer/DE/Safety hybrid in college.

I think he could play the mike lber position in Lovie's scheme. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 15, 2012, 12:55:30 am
Bears' LT situation: why not Gabe Carimi?


http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/2012/08/bears-lt-situation-why-not-gabe-carimi/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 15, 2012, 06:37:06 am
the glimpses I saw of McClellin at DE, I think if he pans out he is more important to us at DE than LB.
LB is easier to fill.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 15, 2012, 06:39:45 am
I was able to watch part of  the replay of the game last night and noticed a couple of things...
McClellin has a motor and good speed. I think he'll make it.
Jefffrey was a good pick but still needs a little time.
Outside of one play I didn't think Webb did that bad. It was like 3-0 when I started watching so maybe Denver had already started pulling their starters.
On the bad play, Ayers came off the line and the RB tried to chip and Ayers stood Webb straight up and drove him back to the QB. It was like Webb was just too tall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 07:30:35 am
I think there is a very good chance McClellin plays LB at some point in his career...  but it won't be as an MLB for Lovie, it will be as a 3-4 OLB for whoever succeeds Lovie.

As long as Lovie and Marinelli are in their respective positions, McClellin will be playing DE, even if he's only on the field for half of the snaps or less. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 07:34:05 am
Supposedly Carimi is playing at under 310 lbs... much lighter than he was last year.  If that has made him more mobile and his knee is good to go, I say why not give him a shot at LT?

If they're gonna do that though they had better start giving him reps there quickly cause time is running out.

This year is it for the OL.  I think Tice knows it, and I would hope all the players know it.  If this group doesn't play up to snuff this year and Cutler and the offense suffer because of it, I look for Emery to clean house and we could see 3 or even 4 new starters on that unit this time next year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 15, 2012, 08:00:28 am
If they move Carimi to LT and he does better than Webb or Williams.
Who do you put at RT?
I thought Webb did ok there before.

Honestly, I think at this point, I line up (Carimi,Louis,Garza,Williams,Webb) like we started last season.
I wonder how much of our LT problem has more to do with Spencer who was getting owned than our weak LTs.
I know you want to have a decent swing tackle in case of injury but I want my best 5 starting and let the backups sort themselves out.
I doubt the young guys at LT would be much of a drop off from Webb/Williams and currently Williams > Spencer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 08:56:45 am
The fact that Tice is still shuffling bodies with only 3 preseason games left to go clearly indicates we still lack talent on that unit.

Unfortunately it's pretty late to be bringing in anybody new and frankly, the ones who are available at this point may not be any better than the guys we've already got -- and they'd need to get up to speed on the system.

The time to address this was in the draft and FA, and we didn't get it done.  So now we're stuck.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 15, 2012, 09:34:24 am
That falls on Emery if that's the case.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 15, 2012, 09:40:46 am
Sorry, Mike Tice, You Can’t Have It Both Ways


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/14/durkin-sorry-mike-tice-you-cant-have-it-both-ways/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 10:16:36 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/15/doctor-says-brian-urlachers-return-in-2-3-weeks-is-feasible/

To which I say...  this sounds a lot like the Carimi thing last year where he was supposed to miss 3-4 weeks, then it went to 6, then he's on IR.

Also very disheartening to read that the Bears' doctors performed the surgery.  That almost guarantees you can at least double the recovery timeline, and that's if the surgery doesn't have to be re-done altogether by somebody competent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 15, 2012, 10:24:32 am
My son just had a scope done on his knee. They cleaned up a torn meniscus.
He was on crutches for a couple days then limped for a week or so more.
After 2 weeks he went back to work with a slight limp. He works in a power plant, a good bit of manual exertion on his feet 12hrs per day in steel toes etc. He still had some swelling after being on it all day.
By his 3rd week I didn't notice a limp but he was still kind of sore at the end of the day, no swelling notice.
It has been about 4weeks now and he doesn't complain.

We don't know if Urlacher had the same kind of scope or if it was more cleaning up scar tissue from his previous injury but if it was just a scope he should be ready to go in a month or less. He'll get much better care than my son was receiving but then again Urlacher isn't 20 anymore.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 15, 2012, 11:30:02 am
I had to groan when  I read the Bears Drs did Urlachers operation. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 15, 2012, 11:33:52 am
It's a given that past Bears players have had problems but do we really know if it was Bears doctors who were the problem or the staff supervising the rehab or the player not following the post-op instructions? I'm not so quick to blame the doctors without more information
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 15, 2012, 11:59:47 am
We can only hope Urlacher had some sort of meniscus cleanup procedure.  And typically the recovery is about 4 weeks but obviously that can vary.

What concerns me is that the original injury was to the the PC and MC ligaments and if that is the real problem and it has not healed then another surgery will be needed with a much longer recovery time.

BTW, Adrian Petersen who had an ACL injury last season is now taking handoffs in practice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 15, 2012, 12:55:08 pm

Lots of chirping about what the Bears should have done in the draft to address the LT position, such as draft Iowa tackle Riley Reiff.   Here's a tidbit from Lions' camp on Reiff who dropped quite a bit in the draft and was available at pick 19:

For the second-straight practice, rookie offensive tackle Riley Reiff took some third-team reps at right guard.

It’s no surprise the Lions have given him some work there, Lions general manager Martin Mayhew said shortly after the team drafted Reiff 23rd overall in April that he coveted his versatility and the fact that he had experience playing both guard and tackle at Iowa.

Let’s be clear, Reiff’s future is at tackle, but he did start nine games his freshman year at Iowa at guard and the Lions like their tackles to have the ability to play guard if needed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 12:56:02 pm
If Urlacher misses appreciable time into the regular season, this D has the potential to be pretty bad.  They were already getting shredded in the air last year and then you take Urlacher out of there...  shudder to think. 

If that indeed happens and our bad D costs us games, the stakes of Urlacher's recovery go up immensely and not just for his future with this team but Lovie and the coaching staff's as well.  Poor play by Urlacher and the D in general could give Emery all the reason he needs to launch Lovie at the end of this season and start rebuilding this team in his image with a new HC, a new defensive scheme and an infusion of young talent similar to what he did with the offense this offseason.

As ludicrious as it may sound to say Urlacher could very well be playing for his future with the Bears this season, I'm not sure it's that far from the truth. Especially with Emery pulling the trigger now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 12:59:24 pm
Interesting bit on Reiff.  I've also heard that David DeCastro (who I was big on going into the draft) has not exactly set things on fire in the Steelers training camp. The OT from Ohio State (Adams?) whose stock fell for a number of reasons has actually looked a lot better for Pittsburgh than DeCastro to this point. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 15, 2012, 02:17:36 pm
I think one key is a healthy Urlacher covers a lot of the middle of the field and helps with weak safeties and a not so great pass rush.
Urlacher is in his last 2-3 years at least if not his last year.
We are unlikely to ever have another Urlacher, someone with his size/speed/smarts.
Roach will never be Urlacher but could possibly be as good as anyone else we can get, who knows.
I think McClellen and the picks at safety are all to help ease that transition for another MLB.

Who knows, maybe McClellen can play MLB to Urlacher like ability, then we still have a hole at DE.
Maybe he can do a Colvin thing and play SLB in 4-3 and DE in nickel, I think the deal is that Urlacher will be retiring before we know it.
Hopefully we can get him a ring this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 02:23:43 pm
The Lovie Tampa-2 without a player of Urlacher's caliber in the middle will fail.  Simple as that.  The year he only played 1 game (2009?) our defense was atrocious.  That's what we're looking at again if he can't come back, 100% and quickly.

If Urlacher can't be Urlacher anymore then this coming offseason will be a great time for Emery to dump Lovie and Marinelli, take a long look at Urlacher as well as our other old "core" players, and start rebuilding our D with an eye towards utilizing the talent we currently have on our roster (and/or can draft in 2013) as opposed to the talent we used to have (Urlacher, Tommie Harris, Mike Brown etc.). We are rapidly approaching the point, I fear, where our talent no longer supports the scheme to which Lovie and Marinelli are so stubbornly committed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 15, 2012, 02:29:32 pm
If Urlacher misses some time I could see the Bears playing more dime defense on passing downs.  With Urlacher the Bears really don't play any 6 DB formations since they like to keep both Briggs and Urlacher in there at all times.

With Urlacher out they'll take out Hayes first and bring in DJ Moore.  And that leaves Roach in on the nickel package whose strengths are tackling and blitzing not pass coverage.    So  there may be more scenarios where they take out the MLB too and replace him with a DB and go dime.

Who could be the the dime back?  Maybe Hayden or somebody bigger like the rookie Brandon Hardin.  He's the easily the biggest DB and possibly the fastest but it might be too much for the rook to take on right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 03:00:56 pm
I'm with you Dallas as far as wondering if a prolonged Urlacher outage could mean Hardin sees action on the D sooner than later. But I'm not sure it's as the dime back (though it could be)

What I'm thinking is, if the D struggles enough without him in the middle I wonder if Lovie and Marinelli would be flexible enough to try at least a situational 3-4 front that would look something like this:

DE Peppers
NT Paea, Collins or Toeiana
DE Wootten or Izzy
Rush LB McClellin
ILB Briggs
ILB Roach
OLB Hardin

I can hardly imagine LoviNelli getting that radical but if Emery makes it clear their jobs depend on the D's performance -- with or without Urlacher -- maybe it could happen.  Desperation breeds creativity.

That all being said, if Hardin were deployed asa LB/S hybrid (think of the college "Rover" position), you might be able to get away with a dime package more than usual.  Typically you put in a dime package and you're just asking to get run over on the ground, but at 6'3 230 Hardin's physical presence may mitigate that risk somewhat.

What's certain is that if Urlacher is out of the mix for any length of time, Marinelli will be putting in a lot of OT trying to compensate for that loss.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 15, 2012, 03:19:07 pm
you guys all know what will happen if Urlacher misses much time.
We'll play the same guys we started Thursday night except Peppers will be playing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 15, 2012, 03:44:49 pm

Yes, we'll play the same guys in the base defense and nickel too, but I would bet they are not going to play Roach as much as they played Urlacher in pass defense situations.  If Urlacher is out for an extended time they need to turn over play calling to Briggs.

Bears defense and the coaches will go down in flames before they convert to a 3-4 this year.  It just won't happen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 15, 2012, 06:40:50 pm
Bears' LT situation: why not Gabe Carimi?


http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/2012/08/bears-lt-situation-why-not-gabe-carimi/




I see you still havent given up on Carimi as our LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 15, 2012, 07:44:40 pm
If Chris Williams sucks at LT vs the Skins I say why not see what Carimi can do there?

Good grief we've got two 1st round OTs on the roster... One of them's got to be good enough to do the job.

Put Webb back at RT where his size can help our run game and his concrete feet won't get Cutler killed.

We are fast running out of options... And time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 16, 2012, 03:11:07 am

I think the Bears coaches probably considered playing Carimi at LT since...I dunno...draft day 2011.  For whatever reason they appear to have made up their mind that the battle for the job will be between Williams and Webb no matter what most of us want.

If anyone has motivation to play well its Chris Williams Saturday night - contract year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 16, 2012, 03:24:27 am

Watched the game live last week while up north now I'm back to looking for to alternatives to watching the game delayed on NFLN on Sunday at 3pm.

Now that atdhe.net has been seized by homeland security - are there any other options out there for catching the game live off the internet?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 16, 2012, 07:03:27 am
I think the thing with Carimi is he has possibly pro-bowl potential at RT and average potential at LT. The coaches might feel that it is better to have one side solid (Carimi/Louis) than both edges shaky.

Wonder if anyone has John Tait's number :-)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 16, 2012, 08:05:15 am
I think the thing with Carimi is he has possibly pro-bowl potential at RT and average potential at LT.

I would say Carimi has a lot better chance of going to the Pro Bowl if he plays LT and his starting franchise QB stays healthy and has a career year, then if he plays RT and Cutler throws 20 picks and ends his season on IR again.   

Regardless of where Carimi plays, if other teams' players and the fans see Cutler getting hammered on a regular basis they're gonna assume the Bears OL sucks (again) and that will hurt Carimi's rep even if he personally is playing lights-out and the sacks aren't his fault.

At this point Tice's job is to put the 5 best (or more accurately, least bad) O-Lineman on the field and do what's best for that unit and the offense as a whole and Cutler in particular. If that means certain members of the OL are a bit uncomfortable or don't get the individual accolades they might have otherwise, so be it.  Emery and Tice made that choice when they elected not to bring in better OTs during the offseason and now they have to live with the results of their decision.

The other thing I'm starting to hear rumblings of is James Brown getting some LT run with if Chris Williams stinks up the field Saturday night. He's a bit on the small side (6'4, 306) and green as grass but I've heard several reports out of camp saying he looks like the most "natural" LT on our roster right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 16, 2012, 08:59:38 am
A lot of teams having LT problems.

Nate Solder was a turnstile for the Patriots last week.

Mike Adams equally as bad for the Steelers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 16, 2012, 09:18:38 am
I tend to agree with Nav on Carimi.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 16, 2012, 09:22:07 am
OTOH the incredulous logic that a 7th round pick who was almost undrafted is as good or better than a 1st round pick from a major program is ludicrous. IMHO Webb is showing just what he is. And just because he has some bloodlines doesnt mean Webb Nation isnt blowing a lot of smoke.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 16, 2012, 09:28:26 am
From what I heard on the radio yesterday Urlacher is supposed to have a press conference to discuss his knee preocedure on Tuesday. Beings today is the last day of Bourbonais practice and the last opportunity for the press to interview players hopefully we will find out more info. But it looks like Nick Roach will get extensive time at MLB till Urlacher is ready. Hopefully Urlacher is healthy enough  by the Packer game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 16, 2012, 09:38:45 am
If anyone has motivation to play well its Chris Williams Saturday night - contract year.

Not sure it's so much a question of motivation with Chris Williams as it is about physical tools, specifically his short arms and lack of strength for his size.  Dude is 6'6 320 but was continually getting stuffed at LG last year. A player can have all the motivation in the world but ultimately it's his physical ability that puts the ceiling on his development.  He has also missed a ton of playing time during his career with injuries and that has not only set back his development, but strongly calls into question his future viability and makes him a much riskier proposition to commit to long-term...  regardless of how well he may play this season. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 16, 2012, 09:48:29 am
This poorly run club is getting what it deserves. No attention paid to the Oline ='s one crappy Oline. And no one should be a bit surprised by it. Most of us are hollering at the screen when time and time again they ignore such a glaring weakness in draft after draft. It's just totally asinine that they keep ignoring it......
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 16, 2012, 10:00:51 am
OTOH the incredulous logic that a 7th round pick who was almost undrafted is as good or better than a 1st round pick from a major program is ludicrous. IMHO Webb is showing just what he is. And just because he has some bloodlines doesnt mean Webb Nation isnt blowing a lot of smoke.

Ludicrous?  Webb was the favorite to win the LT job over Williams just last week.   Right now I'd put the odds a bit better than 50/50 in Webb's favor.  But that could change based on Chris Williams' performance Saturday.  Unfortunately,  I have a feeling that this "competition" could easily go into the 3rd or 4th week - possibly week by week into the season.

Draft position at this point means nothing.  Salary means nothing.  Bears need a solid LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 16, 2012, 10:09:15 am

I think folks are over reacting to last week's game and the media reporting. 

Recall last season when the Bears were winning nobody was this concerned.  And that was without Carimi in the lineup.  Lance Louis, a part time guard, filling in at RT.  A career center, Spencer, playing RG for the first time.  A career guard, Garza, playing center for the first time.  And Webb playing LT in the pros for the first time without the benefit of much training camp.  And Cutler's main targets were Roy Williams and Devin Hester.

And we were all talking playoffs...and now the team is better with Carimi back, and the additions of Brandon Marshall, rookie Jeffrey, Busch and Campbell as backups, and the elimination of Martz and his inconsistent play calling and formations.

I saw what you saw last week and was not impressed but maybe we could wait a couple weeks before letting our knees smack our chins.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 16, 2012, 10:16:09 am
When I mentioned Carimi at a pro-bowl level RT, it was more that he plays well and we don't worry about that side of the line.
It is easier to cover for one hole than 2.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 16, 2012, 10:30:18 am
OTOH the incredulous logic that a 7th round pick who was almost undrafted is as good or better than a 1st round pick from a major program is ludicrous. IMHO Webb is showing just what he is. And just because he has some bloodlines doesnt mean Webb Nation isnt blowing a lot of smoke.

Ludicrous?  Webb was the favorite to win the LT job over Williams just last week.   Right now I'd put the odds a bit better than 50/50 in Webb's favor.  But that could change based on Chris Williams' performance Saturday.  Unfortunately,  I have a feeling that this "competition" could easily go into the 3rd or 4th week - possibly week by week into the season.

Draft position at this point means nothing.  Salary means nothing.  Bears need a solid LT.

I was speaking of past drafts when we expected Angelo to spend a pick on a decent LT from a major program and he said he had a plan and Webb was drafted. Yes I know that at this point it doesnt matter who is a 1st round pick and who is a 7th round pick. You have to deal with the hand you are dealt. And I wasnt comparing Williams to Webb either. Nor was I saying Williams came from a major program either. I personally dont like either Webb or Williams as our LT. IMHO if I were GM Williams wouldnt even get a contract offer next year. He may already be in a precarious position at the seasons end.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 16, 2012, 10:45:06 am
This is where that 2nd round pick Angelo flushed on Gaines Adams really comes back to haunt us.

Not that Angelo would have spent it on an O-Lineman (it probably would have been a DE just like Adams was), but if he had, and it had been the right player, we'd be a lot farther ahead today.

Same could be argued for the FOUR 3rd round picks we flushed on DTs (Dvoracek, Harrison, Gilbert) and WR (Iglesias), all of whom have long since left the team and none of whom gave us much of anything even while they were here.  If even a couple of those picks had been used on O-Linemen who had panned out and would now just be hitting their prime....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 16, 2012, 11:01:01 am

I don't think anyone can defend Angelo's overall draft record.  But he did a pretty good job with trades (can't really blame him for Gaines Adams - but he did get us Cutler) and free agents.  Of course if he hadn't drafted so poorly he wouldn't have had to acquire many of those FAs.

BUT, it must be said that he did put put together a playoff team in 2010 and was headed for another round of playoffs in 2011 too.  But the collapse at the end of the season seemed a good time to go in another direction with a new GM.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 16, 2012, 12:12:24 pm
IF this year's OL doesn't meet expectations I expect massive churn on that unit next offseason.

As in, at least two of our top 3 draft picks being spent there in 2013 and a couple of starting caliber FA signings. Based on what I've seen of Emery so far, keeping Carimi and replacing the other 4 starters is not beyond the realm of possibility.  C. Williams, Webb, Garza and Spencer could all be cut loose with a relatively minor collective impact on our cap... and after a full year of play in an offensive scheme designed by an OL coach (Tice) for their benefit, if they're still not getting it done I don't think Emery would have any qualms in doing exactly that.   

I know, I know, everyone is gonna say how we've got to get our defense younger, get Urlacher's replacement etc. but if the OL is still an issue going into 2013 I don't see any other unit of the team that will get higher priority.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 16, 2012, 12:23:04 pm
I would expect us to spend a few picks next year on OL, LB, DL and possibly CB.
Julius, Brian and Charles aren't getting any younger and Webb and Williams aren't getting any better.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 16, 2012, 12:24:05 pm
I agree with that statement Nav.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 16, 2012, 12:35:06 pm
Way ahead of the game but if things turn out right for us this year I could honestly see us not drafting any DL next April.

If Paea, McClellin, Melton, Collins and even Wootten step up -- and if Peppers doesn't show signs of serious decline -- I think you could make a strong argument we have what we need on that unit going forward...  or at least, for 2013.

I could especially see this happening if Lovie and Marinelli get launched since they're the ones that are always in the GM's ear about drafting DL.

We have so overdrafted DL during the Lovie regime it would be nice to give that unit a rest for a year and shore up some of the other positions that Angelo ignored for too long.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 16, 2012, 12:39:54 pm
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/are_the_chicago_bears_medically_incompetent/11471620
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 16, 2012, 12:45:04 pm
46, I'm following you but I think Dr. James Andrews does a lot of these surgeries for many of the players on many teams. Maybe it is the Bears being reluctant to send someone to him or their rehab after they have the surgery.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 16, 2012, 12:47:19 pm
then again it doesn't look like Andrews is operating on anyone except Yankees now...
http://www.sportspickle.com/news/5732/yankees-sign-dr-james-andrews-to-exclusive-deal
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 16, 2012, 01:18:04 pm
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/are_the_chicago_bears_medically_incompetent/11471620

I think I have to agree with this 100%.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 16, 2012, 01:23:50 pm
46, thanks for the link.

I'm glad that some people beyond those of us on this message board are finally posing some hard questions about this whole topic.

The Bears are compiling quite a concerning track record in terms of how they take care (or not) of their injured star players. It's high time this question gets put out there for more intense public scrutiny.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 16, 2012, 01:28:50 pm
I would expect us to spend a few picks next year on OL, LB, DL and possibly CB.
Julius, Brian and Charles aren't getting any younger and Webb and Williams aren't getting any better.

I agree with that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 16, 2012, 03:04:17 pm
Medically incompetent?? Absolutely! Whoever it is that is supposed to be in charge of keeping players healthy should be let go immediately. He is at best at the same level of incompetence that Angie was. Cut was extremely smart in going elsewhere to have his thumb fixed. This needs addressed. If this club wants to be a top flight outfit that wins consistently, they have to be SMARTER by the dozen!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 16, 2012, 06:29:08 pm

Urlacher knee procedure on Tuesday was not the first

August 16, 2012, 5:24 pm

Urlacher frustrated with knee, still believes he'll be ready Week 1
Brian Urlacher says that after seven months, he thought he'd be healthy again, doesn't care what the public perception is of his knee injury - 8/16

JOHN "MOON" MULLIN

BOURBONNAIS, Ill. – The procedure performed Tuesday to alleviate swelling and soreness in the left knee of Brian Urlacher was not the first this offseason for the Bears’ franchise middle linebacker, CSNChicago.com has confirmed with two NFL sources.

Urlacher had a procedure done shortly after the end of the 2011 regular season, with the injury occurring late in the Jan. 1 loss at Minnesota, sources said. It was similar to the non-invasive procedure that was done this Tuesday.

One source told CSNChicago.com that Urlacher in fact had a second procedure done last spring.

The concerns now become two-fold: whether Urlacher will be sufficiently recovered for the Sept. 9 start of the regular season against Indianapolis, and whether the knee will recover sufficiently between NFL games to allow him to play close to a full season.

Urlacher sat out most of the team’s offseason activities, giving his knee more than six months to recover from the injury and initial procedure.

He was able to practice only through July 31 and has since been sidelined, undergoing another procedure this week.


Tags: Chicago Bears, John Mullin, Brian Urlacher
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 16, 2012, 06:29:45 pm
That doesnt sound good to me
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on August 16, 2012, 11:39:32 pm

 THE CHICAGO BEARS BETTER HAVE AN OFFENSIVE LINE DAY MOTHERFUUUCKIN ONE
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 07:30:03 am
I am genuinely concerned about the Urlacher situation.

Without Urlacher our D is simply not good enough for us to seriously contend for the SuperBowl. Our pass defense is already seriously lacking and without Urlacher will only get worse. In fact if we are forced to go without Urlacher for the entire season (as in 2009), I'm not even sure we're a playoff team.  It's that big.

Lots of ink has been spilled about our LT situation (and rightly so), but I think if Urlacher's health issues drag on that is actually what could hold this team back from its potential this season more than anything else.  I would feel better if I thought Lovie and Marinelli had the willingess and capability to adapt the D to cover for his absence, but I don't think they do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 17, 2012, 09:53:59 am
I am genuinely concerned about the Urlacher situation.

As well as you, me and any other true Bears fan should be. I think its telling that he has had several scopes and nothing has changed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 10:43:45 am
Here's the deal.

If Urlacher is done, then our entire 2013 draft hinges on whether Lovie stays as the HC or not.

If Lovie stays, I guarantee we will be drafting Urlacher's replacement in the 1st round.  His defense simply cannot work otherwise.

OTOH, if Emery cans him and his staff and brings in a new DC and scheme that fits the players we currently have, we can go any direction we want with that first round pick...  including OT if this season reveals that to still be a pressing need.

If I were Lovie I would be praying daily for Urlacher's fast and complete recovery because his future with the Bears is linked to #54's about as tightly as they can be at this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 17, 2012, 11:05:02 am
Maybe and maybe not. I am not so sure Lovie and Urlacher are that joined at the hip. You make a valid point about drafting for schemes although I cant say that an acceptable Urlacher replacement couldnt be found later in the draft and not necessitate using a 1st rounder. I think if push comes to shove LT will be #1 priority if we have another Cutler injury. You always want to draft the best player available, not a particular position, but need often prevails. The only downside is it may be a very weak draft for OTs next April and we dont know that now. We have to see how the season plays out first.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 17, 2012, 11:53:35 am
We may have an acceptable Urlacher replacement in McClellin, who knows.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 11:59:31 am
That's what a lot of people were thinking on draft day, anyway. 

Although I think those opinions were based more on the similiarities in their physical appearance, unusual speed, and background (small western cow towns) than a detailed consideration of their respective games.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 17, 2012, 12:03:51 pm
With McClellin, Urlacher,Roach and Briggs we would have some pretty athletic LBers for a 3-4.
I think Izzy and Peppers could play DE. We don't have a true NT but a Healthy Paea might do it.
Wonder could Peppers play LB in a 3-4? I know he mentioned it before he left NC, imagine a 6-8 LB clogging up the middle of the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 12:32:18 pm
Regarding the switch to a 3-4.

#1, Urlacher is out of the picture for the foreseeable future. Maybe longer. And even if healthy, expecting him to switch to a 3-4 after an entire career as a 4-3 MLB isn't gonna happen.

#2, Paea is barely 300 lbs.  He's exceptionally strong for his size but in a true 3-4 the NT position is about sheer mass as much as power and those guys often go 325 lbs up to 350 or even bigger. On top of which, Paea has been very injury prone and the NT position is absolutely brutal in terms of the amount of abuse sustained. Even if he started 100% healthy (which he isn't currently), I seriously don't think he'd last more than a couple of games at the position.

#3, it's Lovie. The day Lovie rolls out a 3-4 is the day you had best be getting things right with your Maker cause that would mean the Apocalypse is near.

There may be a 3-4 defense somewhere in the Bears's future (and my gut tells me that's where Emery is headed with our personnel acquisitions), but it won't be until a few significant people have moved on.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 17, 2012, 01:17:06 pm
Plus Peppers gimpy knee/s might not hold up to lots of running as a LB. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 01:22:43 pm
Didn't the Texans play Mario Williams as a 3-4 OLB last year?

IIRC that didn't work out so well, and Mario and Peppers are very similar players in both size and ability.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 17, 2012, 01:58:24 pm

From the Trib:

One sign the Bears are becoming more comfortable with first-round pick Shea McClellin is a nickel package that moves defensive end Israel Idonije to tackle, where he had played plenty before the last two seasons. They could be going to that look more in pass-rushing downs with Julius Peppers and McClellin at end. They worked on it in practice Thursday.

Kind of expected news.

I was stunned that I haven't seen any articles about Lovie preparing to replace Urlacher with McClellin - its an obvious decision since both players are so much alike (both are white and fast...and from small towns in the west).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 02:14:34 pm
Izzy is far from the ideal body type for a 4-3 DT, but I have to admit that having someone with that kind of length and wingspan in the middle makes a lot of sense against the quick-drop offenses that teams like the Lions and Packers have killed us with the past couple of years.

Getting sacks on guys like Stafford and Rodgers is virtually impossible but if you can tip or knock those passes down at the line that's the next best thing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 17, 2012, 02:20:56 pm
There may be a 3-4 defense somewhere in the Bears's future (and my gut tells me that's where Emery is headed with our personnel acquisitions), but it won't be until a few significant people have moved on.

What acquistions?  He drafted a DE about the same size of Alex Brown and Ogunleye.  Drafted a couple CBs and signed a couple more.  Drafted a big safety. 

Did he sign any huge NTs?  Any big run-clogging DEs?  Other than Shea who could be considered an OUTSIDE LB in a 3-4 why assume that a 3-4 is in the future?  In the NFCN 3 teams run the 4-3 and the worst defense in the division runs a 3-4.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 17, 2012, 02:27:29 pm
Izzy is far from the ideal body type for a 4-3 DT, but I have to admit that having someone with that kind of length and wingspan in the middle makes a lot of sense against the quick-drop offenses that teams like the Lions and Packers have killed us with the past couple of years.

I think he moves inside on some passing downs.  Might give us more variations with McClellin and hopefully Wooten too.

The next question on the d-line is who are the 1 or probably 2 DTs that make the team.  McCargo looked slow.  Price looked overweight.  Collins was very active.  Pressley is hurt.  And I don't recall if Jordan Miller did anything.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 17, 2012, 02:31:55 pm
The Bears dont have any NT type to play 3/4
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 02:36:20 pm
Right now I would say Collins and Brian Price (if he can get and stay healthy) have the inside track on the final DT positions.  Even notwithstanding the fact Collins is suspended for the season opener by the league. 

From what I've read, Collins has stood out pretty much from the get-go and a couple of writers have even speculated about him nabbing a starting spot.  Price I think will be given a bit more leeway than some of the other guys in the mix simply because of his considerable upside. McCargo, Pressley and Miller haven't generated much buzz at all from what I can tell.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 02:43:03 pm
What acquistions?  He drafted a DE about the same size of Alex Brown and Ogunleye.  Drafted a couple CBs and signed a couple more.  Drafted a big safety.

McClellin would be the rush OLB in the 3-4 and Hardin would be the other OLB. 

Those are the acquisitions I was thinking of.

Obviously we don't have a 3-4 NT on the roster at this point but that position would be a wasted spot until and unless Lovie leaves so I can see why Emery hasn't picked him up yet.  And the S and CB positions aren't nearly as scheme-dependent as the front 7 when you're considering that transition.

Also keep in mind that both of Emery's last two employers (Atlanta and KC) were utilizing 3-4 defenses while he was with them, so he has a pretty good idea what kind of players are needed for that scheme. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 17, 2012, 02:53:55 pm
McClellin would be the rush OLB in the 3-4 and Hardin would be the other OLB.  

Hardin at OLB?   The guy was a CB now playing safety and you expect him to project to a position where he will have to line up with 300 lb offensive tackles? 

Also keep in mind that both of Emery's last two employers (Atlanta and KC) were utilizing 3-4 defenses while he was with them, so he has a pretty good idea what kind of players are needed for that scheme. 

But Emery was not GM at those places so I don't know that he's married to that defensive philosophy.  I'm not saying it won't happen when/if Lovie is replaced.   Packers converted it to rather quickly after hiring Capers and drafting Raji and Mattews.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 17, 2012, 03:02:34 pm
As injury-prone as Hardin has been I sure wouldnt want him going up against 300lbers. He wouldnt last a game. That doesnt fit
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 17, 2012, 03:26:54 pm
Maybe I'm wrong but as I understand the 3-4, when it's being played correctly the OLBs rarely take on offensive linemen. That's the job of the front 3.
 
Each of those three guys up front is expected to a draw double teams if not always, a significant percentage of the time, and that's why there's such a premium on size and strength for 3-4 D-Linemen. They are not the playmakers, the LBs are.  That's why guys like Albert Haynesworth put up such a stink when they're asked to move from a 4-3 front to a 3-4.

And as for the 3-4 "rush OLB" in particular, the whole point of the scheme is to get him out in space so he can leverage his speed against 300+ OTs and doesn't have to take them on in close quarters. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 17, 2012, 04:58:00 pm
Why would the Bears switch to a 3-4?  Over half the league is running the 3-4 now.  Wasn't the main reason the 3-4 became popular was because it used different player skills then the 4-3?  If most teams play the 3-4 wouldn't it be easier to get personnel for the 4-3?  Plus if most offense are used to going up against the 3-4 in practice and most game days the 4-3 is an advantage.

You want to be at the beginning of a trend not the end of one.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 17, 2012, 06:07:57 pm
Well it used to be all 4/3. We are at the end, not the beginning
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on August 17, 2012, 06:32:31 pm
I agree with Pekin completely.  It was utilized because the talent difference was there because not many teams played 3-4, now not so much difference. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 17, 2012, 06:52:09 pm
Should we just look forward to the 2013 preseason?  lol  I mean it sounds like this season is already over.  It started out with such promise.

Can we please stop talking in absolutes?!  Urlacher has a knee scope.  Not just career over, he's on life support.  Williams/Webb battling for LT.  Who's available on the street?

The most critical player on the Bears roster is Cutler.  He is the straw.
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 17, 2012, 09:24:09 pm
Well if you believe in Nick Roach being an adequate Urlacher replacement and Webb being Jimbo Covert then order your Superbowl tickets for this year. Right now the promise there is quite obscure. I can understand the disappointment of some posters. These next 2 preseason games will be interesting to watch.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 17, 2012, 09:47:14 pm
I think the OL, with whoever starts at LT, will eventually become servicable/decent.  Kind of like last year.  In the begining it will be excruciating and painful.  We can only hope Cutler can stay alive until they gel enough and Forte/Marshall/Jeffery will loosen things up a bit.  On the other side of the ball, Urlacher being out or not at 100%, could have us giving up TONS of yards and points.  That will be frustrating, just like it always is.  If it starts costing us games, then you will really hear the screams. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 18, 2012, 06:05:01 am
And boogie, I'll buy that.

Of course subtracting Url would hurt the defense, especially if we are talking about even the 2011 version.  How can we be showing such disappointment about a team we have not seen on the field yet?  We have seen the laundry out there, that is all.  Last season when Cutler went down, the offense was clicking with the same offensive line parts and without Marshall, Jeffrey, Rodriguez, and Bush.  Of course, we will be without Knox and that is a blow, but I think the sum of the additions greatly outweigh the loss of Knox. 

My gripe is with the coaching staff eval of the oline.  What worked?  Webb Williams Garza Spencer Louis.  We add Carimi back to the mix and I am good with that.  But why is Spencer handed that LG job?   Seemed Webb did okay against Jared Allen in the first match with C. Williams there, but not so much with Edwin Williams. 

I can appreciate some posters disappointment on problem spots, it is just fascinating that it is written with such closure.  To read it sounds like we should just start getting ready to prepare for 2015.  Might as well cut bait with Lovie now, release Urlacher, and move on.  I kind of want to see how this season plays out...   :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 18, 2012, 09:24:28 am
All of us want to see how this all plays out. But when the expectations in a healthy season were Superbowl, not having a great OLine and not having Urlacher can be the difference between just an average season and a Superbowl season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 18, 2012, 09:31:39 am
Last year when the Bears had success running the ball it was with a lot of scheming and OL motion.  Guards were pulling and the idea was to outnumber the defenders with blockers.  It worked very well.
Chris Williams worked well in that scheme because of his ability to move with agility.

The line never could block straight up one on one.

The Bears did none of that in their first exhibition.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 18, 2012, 09:32:16 am
But why is Spencer handed that LG job?   Seemed Webb did okay against Jared Allen in the first match with C. Williams there, but not so much with Edwin Williams.

I don't quite understand it but I think they were short an experienced tackle with the loss of Omiyale and they wanted Williams to not only fill the swing tackle spot but to challenge Webb for the starting job. 

I thought Williams did a fine job last season at LG but the coaches must have felt the same way about Spencer at RG and felt there wasn't much or any drop off.

The difference between Webb's performance the 2nd time against Allen and the first had more to do with 3 factors I believe besides Edwin Williams.  1)  Second game was played on turf   2)  Cutler was QB and he was playing with a full set of weapons including Knox and Forte   3)  Allen's team was out of contention and Allen was strictly playing pass every play without any regard to the run in going after the sack record.

And who is in charge of opening up new topics - I'd like to start talking about the 2013 draft and seeing who is available at MLB and LT - wish we would could just fast forward to next year's draft.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 18, 2012, 09:36:01 am

The line never could block straight up one on one.

The Bears did none of that in their first exhibition.


Good point.  Hopefully Busch will improve that aspect of the run game.

Same could be said of the defensive last week.  I'm sure it too was pretty vanilla plus missing Urlacher and Peppers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 18, 2012, 10:29:09 am
Yeah, you know they are not going to show anything in a preseason game, but it would be nice to see something positive and encouraging.  A 31-3 loss didnt have many highlights.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 18, 2012, 12:44:03 pm

Agreed.  In the first couple preseason games you are looking at individual performances and there weren't many highlights.  O-line did not perform well but the unit hasn't really played together.   That might take a quarter way into the season - who knows.

Defensively, the line got pushed around and didn't apply a lot of pressure.  I'll be watching those new tackles and that young DE...not just #99 but #76.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 18, 2012, 02:11:53 pm
After seeing McClellin run down that QB I could see him replacing Url if the absolute need arises. The kid looks like him and is dang fast. In fact on that play he resembled Urlacher to a T. I would not be surprised if something like this happens.....doesn't sound like Urls gonna be a go. And if they don't improvise and move folks where they can utilize their talents best, Lovie's a dead duck. This team is DOA without someone approaching Urls talents at MLB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 18, 2012, 02:14:19 pm
Wouldn't that be strange....McClellin wasn't drafted to replace Urlacher, but unknowingly he could be the replacement for him, even for the foreseable future if Urlacher is done. Knees have a way of keeping players off fields....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 18, 2012, 07:01:40 pm
Lou Canellis interviewed Ted Phillips on the sideline and he guaranteed Urlacher would be ready to go in 2 weeks :o :o :o
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 18, 2012, 07:07:26 pm

Internet and live:

http://www.atdhenet.tv/49561/watch-washington-redskins-vs-chicago-bears
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 18, 2012, 07:44:15 pm
Thanks!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 18, 2012, 08:50:33 pm
Not enjoying the Chris Williams/Chilo Rachal combo at all.  And on the second Bush TD, Williams was just standing around doing nothing. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 18, 2012, 10:46:45 pm
Bears end up winning the game on a 57 yard FG by Gould after the Skins came back from a 30-10 deficit with 3 straight TDs to take a 31-30 lead with a little over 2 minutes to go in the game. Cutler and Marshall looked good. Others looked good on offense such as Michael Bush with 2 1st Q TDs snd Alshon Jeffery. The starting Oline did a sufficient job with protection for Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 18, 2012, 10:51:24 pm
Hardin getting carted off on a stretcher to a hospital, not a good sign.  And Conte was hurt also.  Could be Steltz again at S. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 18, 2012, 11:11:28 pm
Hardin with a neck injury. On the stretcher he had full movement. He looks to be OK.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 18, 2012, 11:12:23 pm
Podlesh also sustained a hip injury
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 19, 2012, 07:35:25 am
So the Giants dismantled the Jets yesterday.  Just read the Jets LT gave up 2 sacks in the first half, and a 3rd wiped out by penalty.  This will be a real test to see if we can keep Cutler alive and in one piece this season.  If the OL performs fairly well, it will put some people at ease.  Of course if Eli dissects the D, maybe not so much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 19, 2012, 01:13:12 pm
On a positive note, that Rodriguez TE did sure does have some receiving skills.  Although just like Jim Miller said, he really needs work on his blocking. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 19, 2012, 01:36:14 pm
Really?  I wondered why I didnt see him play:

8. A strong training camp was derailed last summer for Corey Wootton when the defensive end suffered a knee injury on a kickoff. He tweaked his groin muscle on a punt return in the first quarter and was held out on defense but the former Northwestern star said he’s confident he’ll be in action this coming week.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 19, 2012, 05:07:08 pm
Not enjoying the Chris Williams/Chilo Rachal combo at all.  And on the second Bush TD, Williams was just standing around doing nothing.

Really? You pick apart the oline on a td run?  That was a sweet move by Bush though...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 19, 2012, 05:32:58 pm
Sounds like the starting offense and DL were great, the starting OL was passable, and we still have major durability issues at S.

Was glad to hear Jeffery didnt back down to DeAngelo Hall. Ive said it before but teams that think they can rough up our WRs like previous years are in for a rude awakening.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 19, 2012, 05:35:18 pm
As for Wootten, since he always seems to hurt himself on STs wouldnt it probably make sense not to have him doing that anymore?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on August 19, 2012, 05:42:44 pm
Jeffrey looks great. He could be good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 19, 2012, 05:54:14 pm
I still cant believe Jeffrey fell as far as he did. He must think he died and went to heaven with Cutty as his QB and I have a feeling in a matter of time the feeling will be mutual.

Subject to his staying healthy of course but I really think he could wind up as the best WR from this entire class. This is one Emery gam*le that so far looks like a total winner. (fingers crossed)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on August 19, 2012, 06:26:13 pm
Yes you can already see a big difference in drafts between Angelo and new GM.  The young guys look like they are going to be players. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 19, 2012, 06:32:24 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/19/bears-s-brandon-hardin-released-from-hospital-with-good-news/

Glad he is ok.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 19, 2012, 06:53:47 pm
Just by way of perspective... After Jeffrey's monster sophomore season there was an article written comparing him to Calvin Johnson.

No joke. THATs the kind of talent people were seeing in him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 19, 2012, 08:43:56 pm
Jeffrey looked really good, seriously with Marshall and Jeffrey they are going to be tough to stop in the red zone.  Hardin nees to keep his head up on tackles....see what you hit.  Is Conte okay?

Major Wright looked very good last night also.  I don't recall seeing Wooten play much??
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 19, 2012, 09:25:43 pm
I said Jeffries looked like the kid from Notre Dame.....he's gonna be as good if not better....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 20, 2012, 12:14:11 am
Jeffrey looks great. He could be good.

It's just the second pre-season game but if he blossoms then with Bennett and Marshall along with Hester this could be a good season from our receivers.  Haven't seen much in regards to the TE's being implemented into the offense but maybe that's going to happen the next 2 pre-season games.

Man if Knox was totally healthy along with what we have this could be something serious!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 20, 2012, 01:20:57 am
Also I saw Summers with a great catch late in the game Saturday but fumbled.  I see he has potential and hope he sticks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on August 20, 2012, 04:04:05 am

It's GOOD to have too many W.R.'s !

Was that fun to watch or what?

Keeping in a T.E. and RB/FB at times to help the O.L. paid off.

We pretty much did what we wanted until players went to the sidelines for interviews.

Then those pesky Redskins took advantage of it while nobody was paying attention.

We still won. Cant knock anything about the game.

Took control early with AIRBALL and goofed off the rest of the time until we needed Gould to seal the deal.

That Cousins is a sneaky little **** for the Redskins. Never saw him coming. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 20, 2012, 07:17:53 am
on the whole Webb vs Williams battle, it seems that Williams had another pretty solid game and Webb stepped up.
It appears they are pretty even right now. If no one distinguishes themselves against the Giants, who do you go with?

I'm leaning towards Webb for a couple reasons.
1. Williams is in a contract year and Webb is locked up for a few more.
2. Webb is younger and still has more potential.
3. Williams has had a few injuries.
4. If we get a real LT one day, Webb is likely a better swing tackle than Williams.

Now if Williams does really well and Webb slides against the Giants then I am all for Williams at LT but if they grade out pretty evenly I might go with Webb.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 07:56:26 am
Summers presents a bit of a dilemma.

He's got definite pro size and potential, but is obviously not ready for prime time.  OTOH if we try to hide him on the practice squad, he's shown enough raw ability that another team may swipe him away.  It's the classic case of hoping a guy does well enough in preseason to justify his signing, but not looking so good that he draws attention from other teams. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 07:58:56 am
I'm leaning towards Webb for a couple reasons.
1. Williams is in a contract year and Webb is locked up for a few more.
2. Webb is younger and still has more potential.
3. Williams has had a few injuries.
4. If we get a real LT one day, Webb is likely a better swing tackle than Williams
.

On top of which, Webb is Tice's "pet project" but Williams is the former high 1st round pick making a sh*t-ton of money.

That Giants DL will definitely be a good test for those two.  That being said, if we have trouble blocking those guys then I hope Tice and Lovie are smart enough to get Cutler out of the game pronto.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 20, 2012, 08:43:20 am
Cutler makes our LTs look better than they are.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on August 20, 2012, 08:55:50 am
He could help by using pump-fakes like Favre did so often
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 20, 2012, 08:57:22 am
I think he is afraid if he pump fakes that the DL will  get to him :-)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 09:14:04 am
One thing we need to do is get our run game going so we can use play action.

Haven't seen a lot of evidence of that yet although Bush's 2 red zone TDs Saturday night were impressive.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 09:15:12 am
Cutler makes our LTs look better than they are.

Very true.  IIRC none of the sacks we gave up Saturday night were while Cutler was in there...  they were all on the Bears QBs who came in after him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 20, 2012, 10:07:28 am
Not sure that there is room on this year's roster for Summers.  Marshall, Hester, Jeffrey, Bennett are the locks and now you can throw in Weems too.  Should the Bears keep 6 then its a battle between Sanzenbacher, Rashied Davis, the rest of the FA receivers and Summers.   I am not a big fan of Sanzenbacher but he has experience and is now playing some special team.  Davis' experience is well known but he's 33. 

PS appears to be the most likely spot for Summers.  If another team is looking for a WR to add to their 53 man roster they will probably go with someone with game experience or with special teams experience.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 10:12:57 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/20/bears-gm-phil-emery-says-hes-impressed-with-lovie-smith/

This is all well and good but what Emery really needs to do this year is evaluate Lovie against three criteria:

1) Pre-Game Preparation.  Too many times over the years Lovie Smith's teams have clearly not been ready to play.

2) In-Game Management and Adjustments.  Lovie's (and his staff's) shortcomings in these area are pretty well documented and evident to anyone who's watched the Bears the past few years.

3) Consistency. The Chicago Bears need to start winning the games they're supposed to win. Those back-to-back home losses two years ago (Redskins and Seahawks) still stick in my craw, and then of course last year you have the total collapse against beatable teams like the Chiefs and Broncos.  Beating the beatable teams is the difference between making the playoffs and staying home, especially in a division as competitive as the NFC North. It seems like Lovie's teams are always good for two or three losses a year where you look at the records of the two teams and just scratch your head wondering how the heck that happened. That can't continue.

Absent the OL and notwithstanding the uncertainty around Urlacher, Emery has set the table for Lovie in terms of talent. That is no longer an excuse (if it ever was).  The three points above have primarily or entirely to do with coaching.  If this Bears team shows improvement on those points, maybe we keep Lovie around awhile longer but if it's same-old, same-old after this season then it's time for him to go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 10:14:12 am
Not sure that there is room on this year's roster for Summers.  Marshall, Hester, Jeffrey, Bennett are the locks and now you can throw in Weems too.  Should the Bears keep 6 then its a battle between Sanzenbacher, Rashied Davis, the rest of the FA receivers and Summers.   I am not a big fan of Sanzenbacher but he has experience and is now playing some special team.  Davis' experience is well known but he's 33.  

I'm not real thrilled we brought Rasheed Davis back and frankly, from what I know of Emery's M.O. I'm puzzled why we did it.  He has the potential to keep a more deserving younger player off the roster, IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 20, 2012, 10:34:02 am

Retaining Davis would be purely for special teams.  And Saturday's game was an example of what can happen when your coverage teams can't cover.

I'm sure Toub is still experimenting with youngsters in the PS but retaining Davis might be a Toub decision.  Kind of like what Garrett Wolfe was a couple years back.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 10:38:04 am
Yeah it looks like Bears ST had both good and bad on Saturday night.

Scored a TD on the KO return but then gave it back on the punt return.

Still some work to do but there has been a lot of personnel churn on that unit this offseason and if anyone can get things pulled together in the next couple of weeks it's Toub.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 20, 2012, 10:52:40 am
Sanzenbacher would be the odd man out IF they keep Summers.  I think Summers can be a better version of Dane and another big target. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 10:54:45 am
I don't get the deal with Sanzenbacher.  Slow small WRs are a dime a dozen, not to mention when we really needed clutch play from our WRs down the stretch last season he didn't come through. 

Summers OTOH has the potential to be something special and if he puts things together next season, the combination of him, Jeffery and Marshall would be scary.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: AmazinGrace on August 20, 2012, 11:16:58 am
Jason Campbell looked much better on Saturday than week 1.  Moved around better and seemed to have more zip on his throws.  Maybe that was because he wasn't throwing with 3 guys in his face everytime.  Obviously a significant downgrade from Cutler in every aspect, but at least everything won't go completely down the toilet if Cutler is lost for any length of time.

Very concerned about the Safeties.  Everyone in the organization is putting the positive "all good" outlook for Conte but then I read in today's paper that he told a teammate her heard the shoulder pop out of place.  That doesn't exactly sound "all good".  Still very concerned about Urlacher too.  Supposedly he's feeling much better and walking around well, but is he going to be ready in 3 weeks?

The biggest impact of Marshall and the apparent emergence of Jeffrey could be on Hester.  Get him in single coverage on some of those quick slants and if he can just make one man miss, see ya.  Real excited to see him play WR this year with Marshall on the other side. 

Cutler looks like he's having fun.  Everyone always pouted "why doesn't he ever smile on the sidelines?".  Gee, maybe you wouldn't be smiling either without a #1 receiver and a complete idiot of an OC who makes you do 7 step drops every play and never allows you to audible out of it when 8 men are at the LOS about to take your head off....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on August 20, 2012, 11:18:55 am
He' a Dad now - he will be smiling more
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 20, 2012, 11:24:17 am
Not after changing those diapers at 3am!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 11:35:46 am
Cutler looks like he's having fun.  Everyone always pouted "why doesn't he ever smile on the sidelines?".  Gee, maybe you wouldn't be smiling either without a #1 receiver and a complete idiot of an OC who makes you do 7 step drops every play and never allows you to audible out of it when 8 men are at the LOS about to take your head off....

With Cutler, what you see is what you get.  He doesn't put on a front and he tells it like it is.

When things aren't going well and the deck is stacked against him (i.e., most of his career in Chicago so far), you can tell just by looking, and same deal when it's all good.  It irks a lot of people that he doesn't just put on a happy face regardless of what's happening around him but personally I find it pretty refreshing.  It's a welcome counterpart to Lovie's "don't give a damn" sideline demeanor and something I think a lot of Bears fans have wanted to see from their QB for years.

#6 is long overdue for a season that shuts his many critics up, and I personally believe if he stays healthy, this will be that year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 20, 2012, 11:44:52 am
Not after changing those diapers at 3am!  :)

That's what nannies are for
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 20, 2012, 03:03:47 pm
"As for Wootten, since he always seems to hurt himself on STs wouldnt it probably make sense not to have him doing that anymore?"

Makes more sense to just cut him. Always injured means dead weight.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 03:36:13 pm
Makes more sense to just cut him. Always injured means dead weight.

I know where you're coming from...  the problem is that when he's healthy he's definitely one of the best 3 or 4 DEs we have. And he gives us three guys 6'6 or over (along with Izzy and Peppers) which comes in handy defending short-drop offenses.

In both size and ability, there's a pretty big drop-off from guys like him (healthy) to guys like Chauncey Davis and Thaddeus Gibson who are more in the Shea McClellin mold.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 20, 2012, 03:52:12 pm
I'm not even this doom and gloomish. But- it does have a small ring of truth. 
http://voices.yahoo.com/knee-injury-will-sideline-brian-urlacher-11682610.html?cat=9
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 20, 2012, 04:11:00 pm
I think if Urlacher is sidelined, there's going to be a LOT of very ticked off fans and hopefully, Bears management types. The entire offseason is not enough to determine if the knee is fine or needs surgery?!?? Ridiculous. Adrian Peterson, whose knee was gone and repaired and is back, would say differently.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 04:21:56 pm
If I were Emery I would have Lovie and Marinelli putting in serious OT to devise a modified Tampa-2 scheme that can still be competitive without Urlacher.

Our first string D did OK against RGIII and the Skins but we will be facing much more potent offenses (with talented, experienced QBs aka Rodgers, Stafford, etc.) during the regular season, and nobody close to Urlacher's caliber is on our roster to back him up.  Adjustments must be made.

I also would not get too excited about our DL based on Saturday night's game.  That Redskins OL is not good...  probably about the same caliber as ours, maybe even a notch worse.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 20, 2012, 05:14:29 pm

Fans such as I enjoy believing players like Urlacher play solely for the love of the game. Reality however, dictates players play for the love of money with passion coming in a distance second at best. Playing it safe, as the aging Urlacher appears to be doing, is a smart move from his perspective, with contract negotiations right around the corner. From a fan's perspective however, the whole thing stinks.

Makes no sense.  You would think if Urlacher wanted to enhance his negotiating position for a new deal he would be wanting to play in 2012.  I mean, why did Forte play in the pro-bowl - cuz he wanted to go to Hawaii?  Maybe I believe in Santa too, but I think Urlacher desperately wants to be a part of this team and as long as he's not hurting himself or the team by playing - he will.

An already weak offensive line leaves Bears fans relying on Urlacher and the rest of the team's defense to do what the offense can't - score points.

Ever heard of Cutler, Marshall, Forte, Jeffrey, Busch?

And who the heck is Cheri Eccles-Hagan?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 20, 2012, 07:32:18 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bears-sign-legree-200239442--nfl.html
Well, its not "we like the players we have" anymore.  Good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 08:33:20 pm
In this case I'm afraid it's more an indication that Hardin and/or Conte will be out for awhile and we need some depth thru the rest of the preseason if not beyond.

It's hard to shake the feeling that Hardin in particular may be in for a short NFL career.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: AmazinGrace on August 20, 2012, 09:19:30 pm
Conte was walking around today without the sling.  Hopefully a good sign.  Hardin hasn't distinguished himself enough yet to prove that he can make an impact this season.  If the tests on his neck come back iffy in a couple of weeks, it will be an easy decision to IR him.  At least the team has experience redshirting 3rd round picks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 20, 2012, 09:23:36 pm
Definitely gonna be critics coming out of the woodwork on the Hardin pick if that happens. Its not like he exactly had a squeaky clean medical record coming out of college.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on August 21, 2012, 12:41:26 am
 When the McClellin pick was made ... the first thought was why didnt they grab a LT?

 The second thought was : Uh oh , Urlacher may be more banged up then previously thought.

 They need to make the D-Line stronger to compensate.

 Now we just have to wait and see. I hope I'm wrong.  ::)

 Hardin led with his helmet on that tackle. Didnt they teach him anything in college?

 The main threat is going to be Rodgers and Matthews ... with McClellin ... can we disrupt?

 I'd love to see McClellin and Urlacher on the same field at the same time.  :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 21, 2012, 06:21:51 am
Speaking of Matthews when is he gonna get his blood test for roids?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 21, 2012, 07:36:30 am
I learned to hit with your head up in jr high. I expect they teach the same thing in pee-wee ball. "Keep your head up....keep your head up......"
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 21, 2012, 08:13:37 am
They need to make the D-Line stronger to compensate.

It seems based on Saturday night's game that that is happening, at least somewhat.  But then, the Redskins OL isn't very good either.

Let's see how we do against good QBs (Rodgers, Stafford, etc.) in games that count before we get too excited one way or the other.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 21, 2012, 08:18:57 am
the Giants should be a good overall test for us on both O and D.
I hope that both teams game plan about the same.
It would not be good if one gameplans a lot and the other does not.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 21, 2012, 08:37:57 am
Yup, really looking forward to that Friday night game.

In my mind, the Giants are where the Bears are trying to get to.  Balanced, mistake-free offense led by a franchise caliber QB, Top 5 pass rush from the DL and fundamentally solid defensive play from the back 7.  Should be interesting to see how close we've gotten this offseason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on August 21, 2012, 09:54:45 am
The official CBMB is closing on Aug 27th.

I think its a bad idea- I usually go there 1st to get all the links to other news articles on the Bears.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on August 21, 2012, 11:53:03 am
Giants were very mediocre mid-season last year...

They got hot at the end - when it matters most
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 21, 2012, 12:21:02 pm
Importance of this game is the continued evaluation of Webb/Williams and a few bubble players.   Also would like to see the Roach/Constanza battle at MLB.  Not sure if there really is one, but it may come down to whether the team is better with Constanza at MLB or Hayes at SLB.  May all be moot when Urlacher returns on September 9th.

As for the big challenge against the Super Bow champs.  Sure, you'd like to see the Bears click Friday night but even if they don't it won't be the end of the world.   You'd like to see the O-line get some needed time together, maybe a half or 3 quarters,  without jeopardizing the QB.

And of course the goal of any game, PS or otherwise, no injuries!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 21, 2012, 12:27:13 pm
I read where Webb will be starting at LT vs. the Giants.

But something tells me that if he struggles early, he'll get the hook.  And if not him, then Cutler.

Senseless to jeopardize Cutler's health in a preseason game against a team that practically rendered him a vegetable the last time we played them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 21, 2012, 12:30:15 pm
I thought I read while Webb will start, Williams will get a good number of reps with the 1st team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 21, 2012, 12:50:50 pm
OTOH, this is the same genius HC that played Urlacher in a meaningless season finale last year...  so Cutler may wind up playing out his reps regardless of how his protection is holding up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 21, 2012, 12:59:40 pm
He played all of his starters in that game if I recall.  Is he suppose to bench them all?  Urly wanted to play and injuries happen.  I didn't have a problem with that.

Also if I recall weren't you upset at Lovie for not playing his starters in 2005 against Minny when we had a week bye before playing the Panthers in the playoffs? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 21, 2012, 01:06:34 pm
I'm torn on the whole play-em vs sit-em during meaningless games.
If it is a final week before playoffs, they seem to get rusty if they sit.
If it is the final game of the season with no playoffs then you are ripping off the fans that paid good money to come watch the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 21, 2012, 01:20:26 pm
If it is the final game of the season with no playoffs then you are ripping off the fans that paid good money to come watch the game.

I don't know many Bears fans who would have been upset if Urlacher didn't play that last game. The best thing that could have come out of that game was a Bears loss (improving our draft position and worsening the Vikings' position)...  and sitting Urlacher would have played right into that. In any event there would have been a hell of a lot fewer upset Bears fans if he had sat, than there were after he left that game on crutches.  And if the Vikings fans would have been upset well screw 'em.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 21, 2012, 01:27:13 pm
Well don't play the starters until Opening Day since you're so upset at the coach for playing his starters in meaningless games.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 21, 2012, 01:36:42 pm
yapp, lets say we make the playoffs this year but don't get a bye. Game 17 is meaningless to us. If you had spent  >$2000 to go to the game (seats, accommodations, flights etc) that you would be happy if they sit  all the stars?

I would be really pi$$ed about that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 21, 2012, 01:38:28 pm
Also since the Seattle game last year in Soldier was another MEANINGLESS game why wasn't Yapper making a stink about playing Knox?   Hell Urly could've been hurt in that game as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 21, 2012, 01:45:32 pm
Werent they saying that Hayes is kind of small for LB?  Maybe Costanza would be better at MLB and let Roach move back.  Plus he kind of "looks" like Urlacher with the shaved head.  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 21, 2012, 01:51:06 pm

As Nav said its a tough call on playing starters in meaningless games.  But you can bet that Lovie wants to win every real NFL game and especially one that prevents him from finishing the season with a losing record. 

Lovie could just have easily been canned as Angelo was. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 21, 2012, 02:01:41 pm
Werent they saying that Hayes is kind of small for LB?  Maybe Costanza would be better at MLB and let Roach move back.  Plus he kind of "looks" like Urlacher with the shaved head.  LOL

Roach didn't have a good game last week - he missed some tackles.  But its preseason and overall the tackling was not consistent -  even Briggs whiffed a few times.  I doubt if Costanza is mentally prepared to play MLB but he will at least give it his best shot to make the coaches consider putting Roach back to SLB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 21, 2012, 02:25:47 pm
The bottom line is that we don't have anyone close to Urlacher's caliber behind him.  Not that we could expect to. 

The top tier coaches in the NFL, when confronted with this situation, first recognize the situation and second, adjust with the personnel they have available.  We need to figure out how to cover Urlacher's absence as best we can, and I expect that will be through a combination of increased pressure from the front 4 (hopefully), and deciding which one of our remaining healthy LBs sucks the least while playing out of position at MLB.  It also, frankly, will put more pressure on our offense to score more points but thanks to Emery, we finally have the firepower to do that.

One thing I was very encouraged to see Saturday night was our ability to hold RGIII in check absent Urlacher. Since Url is usually our "spy" against QBs in those situations I thought RGIII might run wild on our D but as it turned out, he really didn't.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 21, 2012, 02:27:40 pm
I think that last game Lovie and staff were coaching for their jobs. He was healthy at the time, wanted to play, so what the hell you gonna do?
If that were the last game prior to a playoff game? He's sitting. Hell, the whole first team sits. But if that were to happen then, Lovie and staff wouldn't have been in a win or get on the bus situation. I feel the same way Yapper does, but these guys could get hurt slipping in the shower just like any other stiff. Btw changing the subject, do the Bears have a punter?  Any punter?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 21, 2012, 02:30:25 pm
Guy named Quigley from Boston College.  Right now he looks to get all the punting action for the Bears Friday night.

Article came out today saying something to the effect that the Bears will be going the bargain basement route on punters until Podlesh is back up and running.  They're not gonna bring in a vested veteran who would require a certain minimum salary. Hopefully Podlesh heals quickly and with our new and improved offense we'll be kicking off a lot more than punting anyway. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 21, 2012, 02:38:27 pm
Was considering going to a game this year but man, the ticket prices are out of this world! Used to be you could get em for $140/150 a seat. Now they're up over $240!! Get REAL! Guess I'm going to have to be on the phone the second they go on sale next year to get a couple games at decent face value rates. These scalpers and ridiculous ticket reseller sites are absurd!! $500 for two tix in the nose bleeds? FORGET THAT!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 21, 2012, 02:53:09 pm
Sporty, go to stubhub. It appears they have a lot of tickets starting at $70.
It looks like they even have tickets to Packer game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 21, 2012, 03:30:58 pm
Thinking about going to jacksonville but it's a tough call. 70-100 per seat in 3rd deck nosebleed seats or in front of my big screen TV in my recliner.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 21, 2012, 03:45:03 pm
HD for me makes it a no brainer.  The one, count it, one game I saw at solder, it was freezing in the nose bleeds in the corner endzone, we had to walk damn near from McCormick place and back, just even 1985 wasn't worth it.  At home, the ticket, beer in the fridge.  Welcome to old.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 21, 2012, 03:47:33 pm
Nav, those $70 'seats' are for parking, lol.....lowest is $160 and that doesn't include their ridiculous $40/$50 or more per seat fee plus added fees!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 21, 2012, 06:45:58 pm
Sorry for butting in here on a controversy but I am not understanding. Why is there such outrage for playing Urlacher against the Vikes last year? Sure there wasnt anything at stake for the Bears and they werent going to the playoffs regardless of a win or a loss, but injuries happen whether its the first game of the season or the last. And besides Urlacher gets paid a lot of money to perform. If I understand the crazyness of the argument here we should have cancelled the game or brought in scabs to play the game so nobody **** a fingernail. Good grief! This is getting as bad as the flag football advocates.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 21, 2012, 07:59:10 pm
Fine I guess nobody else here thinks losing Urlacher is as big a deal as I do. I'm OK with that.

I'm sure our D without him will have no trouble at all.

Lets just let Cutler take 6 or 7 sacks Friday night then too. After all, people are paying a lot of money to see that game too.

The way I look at it, any regular season games after a team is mathematically elimjnated from the playoffs, are effectively preseason games for the next season. I.e. Rest your stars and see what youve got for next year as far as depth.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on August 21, 2012, 09:31:12 pm
Just signed up to see post-game replay of all GB games for $35.  Good deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 21, 2012, 10:43:01 pm

The way I look at it, any regular season games after a team is mathematically elimjnated from the playoffs, are effectively preseason games for the next season. I.e. Rest your stars and see what youve got for next year as far as depth.

I'm sure some teams do that to a degree but they don't just wholesale rest numerous starters for multiple games.  I'm sure some players have contract incentives.  Also, the league wouldn't be too happy since the teams on their schedule with playoff hopes would get an advantage.

And what if the team is 4-8 do you think a coach that has a chance to finish 8-8 just throws in the towel and finishes up 4-12?   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 22, 2012, 12:42:20 am
Sorry for butting in here on a controversy but I am not understanding. Why is there such outrage for playing Urlacher against the Vikes last year? Sure there wasnt anything at stake for the Bears and they werent going to the playoffs regardless of a win or a loss, but injuries happen whether its the first game of the season or the last. And besides Urlacher gets paid a lot of money to perform. If I understand the crazyness of the argument here we should have cancelled the game or brought in scabs to play the game so nobody **** a fingernail. Good grief! This is getting as bad as the flag football advocates.

For the first time this year I can actually say you're TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!!!

Walter Payton played in TONS of "meaningless" games and I'm sure yapper wanted Ditka to sit him. 

I know yapper really have a problem with our HC.  Hell I can understand because I couldn't stand Dick Jauron but I wouldn't blast him for playing a player in a meaningless or meaningful game.  Injuries happen and that's part of the game.  And I'm sure yapper knows this but this is about his dislike toward Lovie Smith.  If he didn't play Urly in that game yapper would STILL complain that Lovie should've played him just he did back in 2005 when the starters didn't play in a meaningless last game of that year along with a bye coming up the next week.  He killed Lovie for sitting Urly and the other starters to protect them from injuries and now he's flip flopped on the issue.

So let Lovie sit all the starters in the next few "meaningless" exhibition games and watch him complain about that!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 22, 2012, 01:00:12 am
And Urlacher's injury was a freak thing. It happened on a hail mary play where somebody jumped behind him and he was injured. Its like the play Cutler was injured, he ran down the field to make an ankle grab to slow up a runner speeding to the end zone. Freak injuries happen. Its the nature of the game. Nobody likes injuries except to opposing QBs like Favre. When its your guy you dont like it
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 22, 2012, 01:33:57 am
Columnist is asking what we're all wondering....WHY were there months of nothing and only now Urlacher gets surgery??

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-0822-mike-mulligan-chicago-bears--20120823,0,1418446.column
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 22, 2012, 07:30:02 am
because Urlacher was trying an alternative medicine.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-0822-mike-mulligan-chicago-bears--20120823,0,1418446.column
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 22, 2012, 08:04:08 am
That HAD to be his girlfriend's influence.  She's got some...  shall we say, "unconventional" positions on medicine.

Not that I wouldn't mind putting her in some unconventional positions myself, but she's a wack job.  I heard they recently broke up and if so, I'm glad.  I hope she hasn't undone Urlacher's career like she did Jim Carrey's.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 22, 2012, 08:28:12 am
Is that the one who is rumored to have the brains God gave a dead goose? Not that, I assume 54 was dating her for stimulating conversation.
Attention span of a nit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 22, 2012, 09:36:06 am
Well it doesnt hurt that he tried it, but it does hurt that it didnt work. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 22, 2012, 09:36:16 am
Bear players aren't allowed to discuss injuries, so unless management comes out with something I guess we'll never know the full course of events.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 22, 2012, 09:49:19 am
I do have to give Urlacher credit for not just blindly entrusting his fate to the Bears medical team right out of the gate.

Looks like he did learn a thing or two from seeing the outcomes with Enis, Mike Brown, Tommie Harris, Colombo, etc.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 22, 2012, 11:04:18 am
Chicagobears.com says the Bears have waived the DT Pressley.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 22, 2012, 11:07:54 am
Elvis has left the building
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 22, 2012, 11:52:01 am
Curious on people's thoughts as to particular Bears VETERANS who really have to establish themselves Friday night or risk not having a roster spot on opening day.  A few who come to mind are:

- Corey Wootten:  McClellin's drafting was a clear vote of no-confidence in Wootten -- maybe not so much in his ability as in his health. Unless he is still having lingering effects from last game I expect him to get a lot of reps vs. the G-Men (especially after Peppers sits down), and he has to make the most of them.

- Harvey Unga:  Another Bears training camp and still have yet to hear or see almost anything of this guy.  The Michael Bush signing pretty much pre-empted Unga's presumed role (big-bodied power back), so now he's gonna have to earn his keep at FB and/or STs. At most the Bears will keep one FB -- possibly none if they go with 4 TEs (Davis, Spaeth, Rodriguez and Adams) -- and Clutts has the inside track there.

- Chris Spencer:  Hard to imagine a former first round pick who started last year could be on the bubble this year, but he doesn't seem to have established himself 100% at LG with Rachal making a strong push.  His versatility could save his hide (giving us a backup at all three interior OL positions), but we already know that Emery isn't keen on paying starters money to backups. 

Anyone else?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 22, 2012, 12:10:37 pm
Keys, lol beat me to it dang it.... ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on August 22, 2012, 12:21:04 pm
Sanzenbacher?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 22, 2012, 12:23:31 pm
I think Wooten and Spencer both stick. Spencer is our 2nd or 3rd best G (not counting Chris Williams) and he can play all 3 interior spots.
I think Unga is as good as gone.
at the RB/FB position we have
Matt Forte, Michael Bush, Kahlil Bell, Armando Allen,Lorenzo Booker, Tyler Clutts, Harvey Unga
I doubt we keep more than 5 of those guys. To me that means Unga and Allen are goners.
I can also see Tice getting rid of Clutts  and keeping an extra TE and maybe letting Bush and a TE fill that role.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 22, 2012, 12:41:48 pm
Sanzenbacher?

Oh yeah, definitely.  In fact I was gonna do a blurb on him but I forgot.

There are some guys in training camp that bring a lot more to the table physically than Dane (Summers, Golden), so I would definitely be nervous if I were him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 22, 2012, 01:58:50 pm
We have a lot of bodies at WR and it is hard to know if we keep 5 or 6.
These guys are a lock....Brandon Marshall, Earl Bennett, Alshon Jefferey, Devin Hester, Eric Weems

One of these guys might stick...Dane Sanzenbacher, Terriun Crump, Chris Summers, Rashied Davis, Joe Anderson, Brittan Golden,
IR/PUP - Johnny Knox

Dane and Davis seem to get a good bit of PT in the PS games. It might be we are letting them audition for other teams.
I expect we will try to stash Summers and Golden on the PS.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 22, 2012, 02:11:28 pm
Dane and Davis seem to get a good bit of PT in the PS games. It might be we are letting them audition for other teams.
I expect we will try to stash Summers and Golden on the PS.


Very good point re the extra preseason reps for Dane and Davis.

And it works the other way too.  With guys like Summers and Golden -- who clearly are prime PS candidates -- you want to be careful about having *too* much film out there on them.  Especially a guy like Summers...  you don't want him getting the attention of some other team's GM and then the minute you expose him to the practice squad he's gone.

I'm sure a lot of Bears fans would rather see preseason game time going to potential future studs like Summers (vs. journeymen like Sanzebacher and Rashied) ...  but strategically it could be in our best interests to keep Summers and Golden more under wraps. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 22, 2012, 02:52:05 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/22/jason-pierre-paul-given-day-off-with-back-spasms/

According to this article Jason Pierre-Paul has been having back spasms and has already been ruled out for Friday night against the Bears.

For Cutler's sake that makes me happy but OTOH I wanted to see if either Webb or Chris Williams could even sort of handle him.  Now Tice will have to make his starting LT decision without the benefit of all the evidence.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 22, 2012, 03:00:30 pm
The Giants have plenty of other rushers in the pen. We'll get  a good test Friday night.
Funny, I have seen the Chi/Was game on NFLN a few times.
Our pass blocking seemed pretty good, esp when Cutler was in the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 22, 2012, 03:29:45 pm
Our pass blocking seemed pretty good, esp when Cutler was in the game.

I would be interested to know how much audiblizing Cutler was doing in that Redskins game.  I'm sure Tice & Co. want to get everyone comfortable with that but at the same time you don't want to give too much away in preseason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 23, 2012, 06:01:11 am
I like what I saw of Summers and probably value him too high.  I don't recall where I heard it, but there are a lot of teams out there that are weak at the WR position.  I want to say the list I heard was like 5 teams.  Summers shows good traits, I just worry about stashing him on the PS, I think I would rather try that with Sanz...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 23, 2012, 07:28:21 am
I don't think Sanz is eligible for the PS, he played in 13 games last year.
I hate to say it but with Weems and Booker (and maybe Knox next year) would you consider trading Hester?
He is likely our 4th best WR.
The homer in me says no but the business man in me says yes if the price is right.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 23, 2012, 08:57:19 am
I can't just trade Hester...  I think we as Bears fans undervalue him.  Their are dozens of teams that would take him off our hands and he is a rare player that has the potential to affect field position on every punt or kickoff return.  Even the threat of him often gives us good field position.

I don't know how the PS works, I wasn't sure if every player has two years of eligibility, or is that forfeited once you play in "x" number of games??
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 23, 2012, 09:34:11 am
The changes in kickoff rules has diminished his value there. It would all depend on what is offered. A quality OL would look pretty good playing every down as opposed to Hester returning a few kicks a game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 23, 2012, 10:04:23 am
On the PS, I think they have 2 years of eligibility unless they accrue one season. Once they are on the active roster for 6 games I think they accrue one season. I think Sanz played in 13 games last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 10:06:57 am
I would rather keep Dane on the PS and have Summers on the 53 (as opposed to vice versa), if we have that option.

This coaching staff really has a thing for Rashied Davis, though, so it wouldn't surprise me if he made it as the 6th WR and both Dane and Summers went to the PS.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 23, 2012, 10:09:08 am
Dane is ineligible for the PS.
It is good that we are finally concerned about what to do with the 4th,5th,6th WR instead of which slug will play the role of the #1.
Now if we could just have that same problem on the OL we can get to scoring 30pts a game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 23, 2012, 10:18:54 am
The changes in kickoff rules has diminished his value there. It would all depend on what is offered. A quality OL would look pretty good playing every down as opposed to Hester returning a few kicks a game.

Hester is STILL a threat no matter what changes are made in the kickoff rules.   The other team doesn't want to kick to him which gives us good field position to start with.  He's a weapon who should be a vital part of the offense this season.  I don't see the team trading him period. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 23, 2012, 10:22:55 am
Oh, I don't see him being traded either. I'm just saying that his value as a returner has been diminished with the rule changes. He is less of threat when more kickoffs go through the endzone and are not returnable. Age and wear and tear will also catch up eventually. I'm just saying that IF you were considering trading him the time would be now when you can sell high.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 23, 2012, 10:45:20 am
Well I can't see anyone giving up a starting LT for him.

Or a high draft pick.  I see your point but I don't see getting something of great value for him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 10:46:47 am
Used correctly (i.e., in the slot paired with any 2 of Marshall, Jeffery or Bennett), I could see Hester being a real handful for opposing DCs. No safety can cover him so whenever he's in there as the 3rd WR you're pretty much forcing the opposing D into nickel coverage, and that softens up the middle for our big WRs and/or running game.  Not to mention keeping S/CB blitzes at home. So I would like to see what Hester can do in this year's offense before passing judgment on his value to the team at this point in his career.  He hasn't done a lot in preseason at WR but I also suspect the real tasty bits of the "Hester package" are being kept under wraps until the games start to count.

Now where I draw the line on that is if it gets to a point where the coaches are stubbornly insisting on giving Hester his reps at the expense of other WRs -- Jeffery in particular -- but with the two of them being such different types of players I consider it far more likely that Jeffery and Hester will be complementing -- not competing with -- each other in the offense. It could very well be the case where Hester works primarily between the 20s and then gives way to Jeffery in red zone packages.  That's what would make sense to me, anyway.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davep on August 23, 2012, 12:06:02 pm
I would trade ANYONE of the return is great enough.  But it would have to be an awful lot in return for Hester.

The Bears are fools to have moved him to WR, and are fools to keep him there instead of making him a full time return man.  Hester is truly outstanding as a return man.  He is mediocre as a WR.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 12:08:37 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/brian-urlachers-availability-for-week-one-in-doubt/

Gabe Carimi, anyone?  At this rate Urlacher will be on IR by Week 4.

We'd better hang on to Hester.  If Urlacher's future is in doubt (as seems more the case with each report), we're gonna need as many players as possible who can put points on the board. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on August 23, 2012, 12:13:26 pm
Let him rest till the BYE - Need him strong for the 2nd part of the season
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 12:16:41 pm
By the way...

All this stuff about Urlacher's knee would have been REALLY NICE for Emery to know before the draft.  Sure seems like using that 3rd rounder on a MLB would have helped us a lot more at this point than drafting Hardin.

If Urlacher and the Bears medical staff knew he was this far behind the curve in April, and told Emery so... then that's one thing.  But if this is all stuff they kept on the hush-hush from him, some heads need to roll.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 23, 2012, 12:52:51 pm

Bears are a legit playoff team and need Hester's game breaking abilities.  Plus there is no reason to trade Hester for possibly a mid round draft choice - he should have a few more good years left.  However, I would limit his number of plays on offense to improve his efficiency on punt returns.  I'd also limit him to spot duty on kick off returns.   Jeffery is further along at this point  than most rookies and will be starting soon - just a matter of time. 

As for Urlacher, he just needs to take his time - no need to push himself for game 1.   Sure, I'd like him ready to go for game 1 but if it takes until playoff time, so be it.  What's unfortunate is that the backup MLB DeCiccio has been out most of the PS.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 01:02:20 pm
The best thing we can do for Hester -- especially as he gets older -- is to not only limit his reps at WR, but try and make sure those reps he does get are "low impact".

I.e., deep routes, or shorter catches in space where he can elude contact instead of taking hits dead-on ...  none of this across the middle stuff, or throws where he has to look back across his body and take a potentially devastating hit from a big Safety.  As seen throughout his career, Hester's health issues increase in direct proportion to the amount of time he sees at WR.  With the arrival of legitimately sized NFL WRs (Marshall and Jeffery), plus our TEs, there is no longer any reason for Hester to be put in positions where his lack of size and bulk work against him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: panthermark on August 23, 2012, 01:19:48 pm
I never posted this pick....
Yup...a few months ago....I was up in Green Bay rocking my custom Bears jersey and other assorted gear.....

(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/553813_4273629039497_1551760193_n.jpg)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 23, 2012, 02:10:14 pm
Agree with Yapp. This whole Urlacher fiasco is unbelievable. Months off and we have this to deal with now. I fail to see how more time off will help Url if it hasn't helped him to have the months off he's already had! NOW is the time he should be in full speed mode ready for the season to start! I don't know...this whole thing ticks me off.....it's so freaking ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davep on August 23, 2012, 02:37:39 pm
A better use of Hester would be to eliminate totally (except for one or two surprise plays per game) and make him the full time punt and kickoff return man.  Why waste his energy at a position where he is mediocre at best, when you can concentrate his efforts in a position where he is still the best in the game?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 23, 2012, 02:46:32 pm
Panther! long time no see.  Your a lucky man.  That little one in the photo? he's going for mommy's handgun in the purse.  Train the little buggers early up their to hate Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 02:47:13 pm
Agree with Yapp. This whole Urlacher fiasco is unbelievable. Months off and we have this to deal with now. I fail to see how more time off will help Url if it hasn't helped him to have the months off he's already had! NOW is the time he should be in full speed mode ready for the season to start! I don't know...this whole thing ticks me off.....it's so freaking ridiculous.

Yup...  when you see how things were handled with guys like Enis, Tommie Harris, Colombo, Mike Brown, etc. etc. it really looks like Urlacher is headed down the same road.  And that's a damn shame.

On a related note...  I saw an article talking about the current health issues with Hardin and Conte and the writer pointed out that virtually every safety who has played under Lovie has had either chronic health issues or had their career cut substantially short by injury. Mike Brown of course being the most obvious example but even guys like Daniel Manning, Kevin Payne, Todd Johnson, Al Alfalava, etc.  At some point "coincidence" ends and it becomes a pattern.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 23, 2012, 02:52:59 pm
Hard to say if it's a Lovie thing or not with the safety issue. I lean a tad bit more on the history of safety play with the team. They've heard of hard hitting safeties we've had like Todd Bell, Gary Fencik, Shaun Gayle and Doug Plank and think this is what they must be and they blow themselves up for it. I appreciate a monster hit from a Safety, probably more than other hits. Here's a guy flying full speed full contact into a player and just blowing him to bits. But that takes a huge toll on a guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: panthermark on August 23, 2012, 02:59:58 pm
S'up 46!
The kid isn't mine...just some darn Packer fans in the pic. 

I went on the stadium tour wearing my jersey.....yeah....I got some stares....but SCREW'EM! 

Unfortunately, I have to say that their stadium is really nice.   All I could think about was how crappy our turf is, how ugly our stadium has become, and nasty are old troughs were when you had to leak.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 03:04:11 pm
Hard to say if it's a Lovie thing or not with the safety issue. I lean a tad bit more on the history of safety play with the team. They've heard of hard hitting safeties we've had like Todd Bell, Gary Fencik, Shaun Gayle and Doug Plank and think this is what they must be and they blow themselves up for it. I appreciate a monster hit from a Safety, probably more than other hits. Here's a guy flying full speed full contact into a player and just blowing him to bits. But that takes a huge toll on a guy.

And who knows... maybe Emery, being aware of that, said well screw it I'm gonna counter that trend by bringing in a guy as big as a LB (Hardin) to play safety.  Which makes the irony of Hardin's early injury all the more bitter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 03:07:41 pm
All I could think about was how crappy our turf is, how ugly our stadium has become, and nasty are old troughs were when you had to leak.

It IS nice turf at Lambeau.

Every year I wonder how it can be that they have nice, green grass there in Lambeau at Christmas time while Soldier Field looks like a feedlot... cowpies and all. I just don't get it.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 23, 2012, 03:16:35 pm
Agree with Yapp. This whole Urlacher fiasco is unbelievable. Months off and we have this to deal with now. I fail to see how more time off will help Url if it hasn't helped him to have the months off he's already had! NOW is the time he should be in full speed mode ready for the season to start! I don't know...this whole thing ticks me off.....it's so freaking ridiculous.

Time off will help now because he went ahead and had the scope.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 03:38:11 pm
The flip side is, if we can somehow pull off a win against the Pack in Week 2, MINUS Urlacher...  that would be a tremendous confidence builder for the whole team.

You gotta know it's killing Urlacher to have this all come up now when the offense is showing potential to be by far and away the best it's been his whole career.  It could wind up being a very difficult decision for Lovie when (if?) Urlacher recovers to that 70-80% level...  is #54 on the field at three-quarter speed helping or hurting the team as compared to a younger guy at full strength?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 23, 2012, 05:46:35 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=9003

They cut Bell.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 23, 2012, 05:59:53 pm
That's tough...I liked Bell. The kid showed toughness and vision when running, usually finding a hole to dart through. It's too bad...but shows the quality of our RB's when we're finally letting good ones go....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 23, 2012, 07:32:02 pm
Interesting, I wonder who they are thinking is going to be the third back then.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 23, 2012, 07:40:33 pm
So Bell refused to take a pay cut:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-waive-bell-after-reserve-rb-refuses-to-take-pay-cut-20120823,0,2718729.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on August 23, 2012, 09:27:17 pm
I never posted this pick....
Yup...a few months ago....I was up in Green Bay rocking my custom Bears jersey and other assorted gear.....

(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/553813_4273629039497_1551760193_n.jpg)

You and Vince.  Cool, Panther.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 23, 2012, 11:08:30 pm
The Bell cut could mean they're gonna give Unga one more shot.

Why I don't know, but thats a possibility.

Or they figure Booker gives them more on STs so he's gonna get the 3rd RB spot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 24, 2012, 01:57:22 am
IMHO I would be mildly shocked if Unga made the team as the 3rd running back. In my mind its between Armando Allen and Booker. I've seen more out of Booker than I've seen out of Allen. I really havent seen much Unga has done to make anybodys team. If anything he might make the practice squad since I dont believe he has ever been on our practice squad and I really dont believe there is enough tape on the guy to be worried about losing him. I believe he has been on IR 2 years in a row.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 24, 2012, 06:46:56 am
I am on board with limiting Hester's reps at WR, I don't know that I have seen the WR screen work that well that we keep employing it.  I also don't like the crossing routes over the middle, but I like the way the Eagles have used Desean Jackson(before he put himself in bubble wrap), with very short crossing routes running along the LOS and letting him catch the ball in space and with a full head of steam.  Let Marshall take the top off the defense and run Hester into the zone underneath which should be cleared out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 24, 2012, 09:13:39 am
Or they figure Booker gives them more on STs so he's gonna get the 3rd RB spot.

Booker seems the logical choice for the 3rd running back.  Unga is headed for the PS...maybe.  Maybe we'll see him in game 4.

I just don't understand the Bears' logic with trying to undercut Bell for $500K.  He's a guy that has shown that he can be plugged into the starting lineup and perform pretty well (except for that fumbling issue).   If its a numbers game and Booker is the better 3rd back because of his return abilities then yeah, cut Bell.  But this kind of makes the Bears look cheap.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 24, 2012, 11:18:52 am
Panther- was this you? If so, Good Job!!!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-news-of-the-odd-packers-fan-apparently-looks-to-evict-bears-fan-20120824,0,1329352.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 24, 2012, 11:34:48 am
Yeah thats nuts.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 24, 2012, 12:00:51 pm
Re lowballing Bell...

Emery has made if very clear that the days of the Bears overpaying backup players are over. I'm pretty confident you'll not be seeing another Frank Omiyale come in here and take the team for millions while riding the bench. Emery established that MO right off the bat with Okoye and even starter caliber guys like Jason Campbell and Bush aren't pulling huge paychecks from the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on August 24, 2012, 07:38:37 pm
Nice Pic Panther!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Chiman on August 25, 2012, 04:05:22 pm
Hiber email me at chiman@insightbb.com
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 25, 2012, 04:56:32 pm
Former Bears OT Levi Horn was cut by the Vikings today.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 25, 2012, 06:14:25 pm
Didnt see this coming, not:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-chicago-bears-will-place-brandon-hardin-on-injured-reserve-20120825,0,5744877.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 25, 2012, 06:18:06 pm
Wasn't he carted off the field last week?  I'm not surprised.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 25, 2012, 08:22:00 pm
Sarcasm. ;)  The rookie we drafted in the third round, who played zero his last year, now wont play at all his first year.  Such an Angelo pick.  And a total waste. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 25, 2012, 09:05:10 pm
That Hardin pick was ridiculous. We should seriously be looking at acquiring more help on the Oline. If they think they can get by this season with the crap they've got, oh brother.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 25, 2012, 10:14:51 pm
Why waste a chance at a superbowl because of OLine inadequacies? Superbowl chances dont come often enough for the Bears. Why jack up other units and leave the worst alone? Why jeopardize your Superbowl chance you have? Thats totally stupid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: octagon on August 25, 2012, 10:17:10 pm
The NFL network scroll said the Bears are looking at Peprah. Any other sources on this?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 26, 2012, 07:34:32 am
I read that either in the Trib or PFT.  Problem was he was hurt. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 26, 2012, 12:02:27 pm
The Hardin pick is shaping up to be the first really big blunder of the Emery era.

He may not even be a fit with our next HC's scheme... And if the Bears play as bad this season as they did against the Giants, a new HC needs to be a definite consideration.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 26, 2012, 12:07:06 pm
Same article also says we waived Chris Summers.

I thought he was heading to the practice squad for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 26, 2012, 01:06:39 pm
Sometimes they let guys go early in hopes that others will think they are not so good.  A risky bluff if it is what they are trying to do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 26, 2012, 02:03:41 pm
I was wondering about that with Summers in particular.

If they waive him now and he goes unclaimed, can we then put him on the PS under "protected" status?

If thats the case I can see the logic though there is definitely risk involved.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 26, 2012, 06:17:21 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/26/source-decastro-out-3-5-months/

Ok, so if we would have taken DeCastro, I guess it could have been worse.  Just saying. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 26, 2012, 08:04:53 pm
Hardin made a **** poor tackle, poor techinque.  Was that the word on him coming out?  If he broke the same shoulder, then I agree.  He about broke his neck, maybe he isnt that smart but it wasn't a reinjury as far as I can tell...

You can blame Emery for a recurring injury issue, and I guess you can blame him for taking a player that isn't smart enough to see what he is hitting...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 26, 2012, 09:18:14 pm
The thing that puzzled me about the Hardin pick was that many people including the Bears said he would be primarily if not exclusively a Special Teams player his rookie season.

Those are guys you take in the 6th and 7th round, not the 3rd.

In any event now we won't even get that out of him this year, but that's the Bears luck for ya.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 27, 2012, 01:29:51 am

I liked the Hardin pick.    It's easy to criticize this pick just as it was easy to criticize the Gaines Adams trade.  Anybody  can have a season ending injury on any play in the NFL.

And there was only one tackle taken in the 3rd round after Hardin and I doubt he'll be a starting LT.

What bothers me is that Hardin was supposedly exhibiting bad tackling technique in practice.  Recall this is a corner converting to safety who didn't play his senior year in college.  Did the coaches work with him enough on his tackling?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 27, 2012, 08:11:34 am
Maybe that's part of the problem, no more full contact practice.

Peter king was saying he visited something like 27 NFL camps and never once saw any tackling
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 27, 2012, 08:42:11 am
It's just really hard for me to believe that there wasn't a single player sitting there, at any position, that Emery thought would improve our team more than Hardin at the place we were picking.

Well anyway.  Another non-producing 3rd rounder, what else is different.

Moving on...  PFT reported yesterday that on top of everything else, Julius Peppers is playing with a bum foot.

I don't know about any of you all, but I am having real concerns about our defense. I just had a gut feeling during the offseason that our D this year would not be as advertised.  I was hoping I'd feel better after the draft, but the McClellin and Hardin picks didn't do much to change that.  And then the Urlacher thing comes out, and now Peppers...  and having seen our starting D be totally owned by the Giants offense Friday night.  Well let's just say there's a lot of room for healthy skepticism regarding that unit right now. 

The silver lining is that if our D fails this year, it will most likely mean the end of Lovie. Especially if our D costs us the playoffs. At which point we can move forward with a better HC along with a more competitive defensive scheme and hopefully, guys that can play it. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 27, 2012, 09:20:45 am
It's just really hard for me to believe that there wasn't a single player sitting there, at any position, that Emery thought would improve our team more than Hardin at the place we were picking.

We weren't exactly all that strong at safety going into the draft.  Wright and Conte haven't exactly shown much durability and our only depth was Steltz.

I don't know about any of you all, but I am having real concerns about our defense. It was just a gut feeling thing during the offseason and I was hoping I'd feel better after the draft, but even with the McClellin and Hardin picks I really didn't.  And then the Urlacher thing comes out, and now Peppers...  and having seen our starting D be totally owned by the Giants offense Friday night.  Well let's just say there's a lot of room for healthy skepticism regarding that unit right now. 


Obviously Urlacher is the number one concern and I can see a difference with our defense without him.  Peppers is also a concern but if it was serious he wouldn't be playing in meaningless PS games.  McClellin like any DE taken in any draft is going to be a question mark - how many folks thought Mario Williams was a flop?   McClellan hasn't flopped and should contribute - how much...who knows? 

My other concerns are with Conte and Paea - I hope they are ready to go and fully healed.

Not as concerned about the overall defense yet, its still preseason, but somewhat concerned about Tillman's play even though I thought his PI on 3rd and long was questionable.   Hopefully, its just a bad night and not something we have to worry about throughout the season. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 27, 2012, 09:22:32 am
I guess I saw a different game...I certainly didn't think our D was "owned".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 27, 2012, 09:52:55 am
Didn't Tillman draw two PI flags Friday night?  That's what I remember and they were both BS but with these replacement refs who knows what we're gonna get.

There was also a very clear hold in their own end zone by the Giants LT that would have given us a safety if it had been called but instead they let it go and Manning completed a long pass to get them out of trouble.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 27, 2012, 10:24:40 am
Well anyway.  Another non-producing 3rd rounder, what else is different.

We wont have to worry ourselves next year as we wont have a 3rd rounder because of our acquisition of Brandan Marshall ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 27, 2012, 11:05:55 am
Are things really this bad to consider this? After reading about the dline, the secondary, it sounds before the season starts the Bears are standing on rotting ice. Lovie have a bus ticket in his future?
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14703613-419/cutting-brian-urlacher-a-real-option-for-bears.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 27, 2012, 11:13:28 am
Holmes: Still No Winner At Left Tackle Battle


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/27/holmes-still-no-winner-at-left-tackle-battle/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 27, 2012, 11:17:29 am
I guess I saw a different game...I certainly didn't think our D was "owned".

Go back and watch that first half again. We couldn't cover, couldn't get close to Manning and couldn't tackle anyone, especially their rookie RB.

The only thing working in our favor is that we have 7 games this year against rookie or 2nd-year QBs.  Cause a good veteran QB will tear this D to shreds.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on August 27, 2012, 11:22:42 am
Please don't base how the defense is going to play this season on a pre-season game.   Cutler didn't look good in this past game and I'm sure you're not going to base how he or the offense is going to play because of it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 27, 2012, 11:44:00 am
From what I am seeing, we are a couple of O-Linemen and a defense away from being a SuperBowl contender.

The bad news is, that's still a lot to fix.  The good news is, Emery has shown he can get a lot of changes made in one offseason and he's not afraid to shake up the roster to do it.  The X-factor this coming offseason, of course will be Lovie and his staff, who were "protected" from Emery this year but almost certainly would lose that status with another underachieving record this season. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 27, 2012, 11:47:29 am
hmm, folks keep mentioning 4-3 and our O and stuff, if you think about it we have a lot of the ground work in place to bring in someone like say a Bill Cowher if our D implodes.

I don't think I would run Lovie and crew out of town for anyone less than someone of Cowher's caliber.

All that being said, we'll make the playoffs this year and Lovie will get an extension along with Urlacher who will retire a Bear.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 27, 2012, 11:54:21 am
hmm, folks keep mentioning 4-3 and our O and stuff, if you think about it we have a lot of the ground work in place to bring in someone like say a Bill Cowher if our D implodes.

I don't think I would run Lovie and crew out of town for anyone less than someone of Cowher's caliber.

All that being said, we'll make the playoffs this year and Lovie will get an extension along with Urlacher who will retire a Bear.


Looks like Nav has been sipping the koolaide.  ;) 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 27, 2012, 11:56:42 am
All that being said, we'll make the playoffs this year and Lovie will get an extension...

My reaction to that would depend #1 on how we got into the playoffs, and #2 what we did when we got there.

If we just barely squeak into the #6 seed with a 9-7 record and a lot of help, and then only to be one-and-done in the playoffs...  I'd have a lot of misgivings about going with Lovie any longer.  ESPECIALLY if our defensive struggles against the pass in particular have been a season-long issue.  OTOH if we notch a solid 11- or 12-win season with some quality efforts against legit opponents (despite obvious talent deficiencies in our OL and defense), we look good in the playoffs and lose a close, hard fought NFC Championship game to the eventual Superbowl champ, then that's a different scenario.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: panthermark on August 27, 2012, 01:13:57 pm
Our O-line sucked azz....and our D-line didn't get close to Manning.


BUILD THE TRENCHES!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 27, 2012, 02:29:47 pm

I think our d-line will do alright this year assuming Paea and Peppers are good to go.  We should have a nice 4 man DE with Wooten and SMc and I expect 5 DTs to make the squad to go along with Melton, Paea, and Toeaina:  Brian Price and Nate Collins.  Although only 4 will dress on Sunday.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 27, 2012, 03:47:04 pm
I expect our D will do like it normally does....
They will have some drives where they look world class, 3&out and look good doing it.
They will have some drives where they make guys like Caleb Hanie look good until they get to the red zone.
They will have a bunch of drives where the other team will drive and eat time but either not score or only get 3.
They will have a few drives where they give up the big play and the other team gets 6.

Hopefully we have more times that they are 1-3 than #4.
If our O can stay on the field that will help the D play better.
When the D is playing good, they can generate a lot of 3 and outs and turnovers.


Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 27, 2012, 03:50:25 pm
I expect our D to be better than what we have seen in recent years if only because they will be better rested. I expect longer offensive time of posession with Martz gone and Cutler actually having some weapons. A lot fewer 3 and outs for us on O.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 27, 2012, 03:54:49 pm
I think we underestimate what a gift it will be for Cutler to get a play in quickly, have time to scan the field, go through pre-snap reads and make adjustments if needed.

I don't expect us to play lights out week 1 but I expect it to start clicking.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 27, 2012, 04:13:49 pm
I expect our D will do like it normally does....
They will have some drives where they look world class, 3&out and look good doing it.
They will have some drives where they make guys like Caleb Hanie look good until they get to the red zone.
They will have a bunch of drives where the other team will drive and eat time but either not score or only get 3.
They will have a few drives where they give up the big play and the other team gets 6.

Hopefully we have more times that they are 1-3 than #4.
If our O can stay on the field that will help the D play better.
When the D is playing good, they can generate a lot of 3 and outs and turnovers.


That last part is huge.  This D gives up so much easy yardage between the 30s that they are almost forced to get turnovers in order to stay the game.  A decent offense with a good veteran QB is practically guaranteed a minimum of 3 points on virtually every possession against our D so if our D isn't collecting 2 or 3 turnovers in a game that's pretty much 10-17 points the other team can take to the bank. 

In other words, if you are giving up a lot of yards but getting a lot of turnovers, you can still be competitive.  But when you give up yardage in bunches and can't counter that with turnovers, you're gonna be putting hellacious pressure on your offense and/or losing a lot of games.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on August 27, 2012, 07:46:30 pm
I can see us turning a lot of games quickly.  D causing turnover, then the offense quickly capitalizing with a score.  I think our team is built for the quick strike.  That is a very demoralizing turn for the opponent.  However I still worry about the hard fought close games.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 27, 2012, 09:03:39 pm
I think we are going to get a lead on the Colts early and add to it.  Then Lovie will go to the soft cover two which Luck will pick apart when we had him stymied the entire game playing our regular defense.  The whole time we will quit throwing the ball and run, run, run.

In the end it will be a very close game won by less then a TD.  If the Bears win at all.  That is my take anyway.  Lovie does not know how to step on the gas and bury an opponent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on August 27, 2012, 10:48:32 pm
Last guy that knew how to do that had a last name of Dikta.  Course, he was to scary for pencil neck and had to go.  That 85 SF away game was a thing of beauty.  End of the game, empty stadium, and coach crammed fridge right up genius Walsh's.....10 yard line. I love giving payback.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 27, 2012, 11:26:38 pm
Panther's exactly right...this is exactly what is needed on this team. They keep throwing guys on the Dline hoping they'll stick but they are asleep at the switch with the Oline, badly. How many years of this bs do we have to put up with? We need Oline.....we need a Oline, HEY GUYS we need a friggin OLINE!!!!! Nothing more frustrating than seeing a glaring need that sticks out like a sore Godzilla and see it ignored over and over and over.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 28, 2012, 07:34:08 am
Got a question....why are the refs on strike? The league and owners will drop millions upon millions on players, some of whom NEVER pan out or amount to anything, and yet they're going to lowball some of the most important people on the field?? What's up with that.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 28, 2012, 07:45:21 am
they aren't on strike, they are being locked out, same as the players last year.
That tells me that the NFL wants a better deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 28, 2012, 08:10:05 am
I doubt the deal the refs are getting now is anything special at all. They wanna save money, cut one high paid player off each team. That will more than make up for any pay ALL the refs are getting. Heck, probably ONE player from one team would do that.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 28, 2012, 10:11:30 am
looks like the average NFL ref makes between $25k and $70k per year.
Not bad for a part time gig.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 28, 2012, 10:58:29 am
Panther's exactly right...this is exactly what is needed on this team. They keep throwing guys on the Dline hoping they'll stick but they are asleep at the switch with the Oline, badly. How many years of this bs do we have to put up with? We need Oline.....we need a Oline, HEY GUYS we need a friggin OLINE!!!!! Nothing more frustrating than seeing a glaring need that sticks out like a sore Godzilla and see it ignored over and over and over.....

Problem is we need a d-line too.  You are not going to beat the Packers and Aaron Rodgers without one - see New York Giants.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 28, 2012, 11:00:07 am

Has anyone heard anything about our 4th safety?  Since Hardin has been IRd the Bears need an experienced free safety.  I read they were sniffing around bringing in Charlie Peprah after he failed his Packer physical.  Any news?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 28, 2012, 11:46:03 am
Like I said...  there's a lot to be concerned about with our D right now.

Urlacher, Peppers, paper-thin at safety, and now word today Paea is not recovering as quickly as expected.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 28, 2012, 11:54:19 am

What can anyone do about Urlacher's and Pepper's injury situation...or even Paea's gimpy ankle...other than worry?  We do have about 2 more weeks before the first game.

The 4th safety is something that can be done...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on August 28, 2012, 11:19:15 pm
Yea, we weren't exactly beating a path to the QB for sure. They were stoning our Dline completely, except for the one rush by Pepp. One deal a game does not a good line make.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 29, 2012, 10:48:04 am
Does anyone know how much longer till the Bears can put people on their practice squad?

Matt Blanchard and Chris Summers were two early cuts but I have to think they both showed enough to warrant bringing them back as PS guys if no one else claims them.

I also see the Bears cut Unga on Monday but I'm not sure he's practice squad eligible any longer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 29, 2012, 11:37:13 am
Would you want Unga on the practice squad?  I think the PS can be filled out after all of the final cuts are done.  Like Sun maybe?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 29, 2012, 11:50:11 am
No I wouldn't want Unga on the PS even if he were eligible.  Definitely one of Angelo's more curious pickups and a guy that for any number of reasons doesn't show signs of ever being to put it all together.  That PS slot would definitely be better used on an OL, LB or DB IMO.

I think it's encouraging that it's been a few days since Summers was waived and no one has picked him up yet. Maybe we'll be able to get him back on the PS after all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 29, 2012, 12:37:37 pm
I think boogie is right - the practice squad is formed after the final games and cuts sometime over the weekend.

As for Unga, did anyone ever see him play?  Either he's just plain lousy or the Bears are going to try to sneak him on their PS. 

I do agree I think Blanchard and Summers are keepers and should be put on the PS.   Not sure why they were cut so early - may be because they want to look at other guys more in the final game?  Or are they just trying to be sneaky?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 29, 2012, 12:44:06 pm
Unga's situation with the Bears reminds me a lot of Brian Price's with the Bucs. Each of them have ability, but with both of them it was just one thing after another (personal crises, injuries, etc.) constantly preventing them from earning their keep.

In the case of the Bucs, they were tired of waiting for Price to put everything together and cut bait -- which I'm sure was not a decision quickly made given that he was a Top 35 pick. I suspect the Bears have reached the same point with Unga (even though as a 7th round pick the risk/reward on him is much lower).

If they do bring Unga back then there must some truly special talent that Emery and the coaches see in him that has eluded many of us to date.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 29, 2012, 01:03:37 pm
Rashied Davis reportedly has been cut.

That helps Sanzenbacher's odds immensely. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 29, 2012, 01:06:59 pm
Davis didn't really make a lot of sense to me anyway unless we were bringing him in as a favor to get some PS tape on him for another team. I mean he was like our #4 WR (behind Bennett, Hester, Knox) before we got AJ and BM. He makes sense for a team that needs a 3rd WR that can play special teams but not us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 29, 2012, 01:10:41 pm
Someone on another blog proposed that since Rashied played for the Lions last year, maybe we just signed him to get the inside skinny on a division rival.

Those theories never hold much water with me, but who knows.  I thought Rashied might actually have a legitimate shot at the #6 spot especially after Devin Thomas packed it in, but since Sanzenbacher is much younger and shown some stuff on STs, it probably was not that hard of a decision to make.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 29, 2012, 03:55:47 pm
Score guys were speculating its Anderson who will benefit most from the Rashied Davis cut rather than Sanzenbacher
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 29, 2012, 04:08:20 pm
Anderson looked good in the Giants game.  More upside physically than Dane, to be sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 29, 2012, 04:40:34 pm
I was a big fan of this kid but it looks like Emery knew what he was doing...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/29/amobi-okoyes-knee-causing-problems-for-bucs/

I just hope for his sake that his current problems don't trace back to anything the Bears medical/training staff did (or didn't) do while he was with us.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 29, 2012, 06:36:08 pm

I got a question.  Anyone know if guys on the PUP count against the 53 man roster?   Knox is already on it and I'd bet DeCiccio is the next addition.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 29, 2012, 07:36:09 pm
From what I understand, the PUP list essentially buys you 6 games of exemption against the 53. After 6 games you have to either IR the player or make room for him on the 53.

I'm not sure if there's a limit on the # of players you can PUP, nor do I know if players on the PUP draw their full salary.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 30, 2012, 03:18:46 am

Are we surprised?

The Bears waived/injured linebacker Dom DeCicco, who had been sidelined with what was called a groin injury. DeCicco went to Philadelphia on Tuesday for a second opinion and found out he had a sports hernia injury. He is scheduled to have surgery next week and will be sidelined three weeks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 07:54:23 am
Too bad. Looked like the kid had potential at MLB and was a pretty good special teamer too IIRC.

Now we're definitely drafting a MLB in the 2nd round next April, if not the 1st.

Looks like J.T. Thomas definitely has a chance to make the 53 now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 30, 2012, 08:03:13 am
wonder why they didn't just IR DeCicco,? Maybe they plan to re-sign him later on. It doesn't appear that he is eligible for the PS because he played in 12 games last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 08:06:31 am
Interesting take on Lovie's future with the team:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1316466-bears-may-be-stuck-with-lovie-smith-for-the-long-haul

The writer has a point...  but I still say if we miss the playoffs again this year, and/or the D goes into the crapper (which I give about a 60-40 chance of happening), then Lovie needs to go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 30, 2012, 08:32:02 am
If we win 10-12 games this year and make the playoffs, you have to keep Lovie.
Our biggest hold up right now is our OL. I'm not sure we can compete with Elite teams like GB and NYG in our conference with our OL playing like it does.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 08:42:01 am
I consider our OL and our pass defense of equal concern at this point.

I think we could see a lot of QBs carving up our D like Manning did last Friday night.  I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 30, 2012, 09:24:10 am
We can manufacture pass rush at times when needed, we can't manufacture an OL.
I was thinking earlier when/if Knox comes back....
BM,AJ,Hester,Knox would be tough to defend except by not keeping a TE in to block Cutler will likely be on his back before he can get the pass off.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 09:34:43 am
Knox won't be in the picture till 2013... if ever.  Putting him on the PUP was strictly a morale move...  when the 6-game period is up he will go on IR.

But yeah, that would create some interesting possibilities assuming protection was solid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 30, 2012, 10:50:35 am
If we win 10-12 games this year and make the playoffs, you have to keep Lovie.
Our biggest hold up right now is our OL. I'm not sure we can compete with Elite teams like GB and NYG in our conference with our OL playing like it does.

I agree.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 10:59:28 am
We can't compete with GB and NYG if our D plays like they did the first half Friday night, either.

No pass rush, bad tackling and poor coverage is a recipe for disaster against those teams.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 30, 2012, 11:36:16 am
We can manufacture pass rush at times when needed, we can't manufacture an OL.

Actually you can manufacture a pass rush and an O-line.  Obviously, blitzing enhances the pass rush.  But last year not one linebacker recorded a sack so that really wasn't that effective since it takes away from your coverage.

And an offensive line manufactures extra protection by keeping in a back or a TE.  Again, that takes away from the number of receivers you send into the pattern.

Both lines were in need of upgrade.  The Bears upgrade of the receiving corp and firing of Martz should provide a benefit to the o-line.  The pass rush should also be improved by the addition of SMc and possibly the return to health of Paea and Wooten.

Looks good on paper...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 30, 2012, 11:41:34 am
No pass rush, bad tackling and poor coverage is a recipe for disaster against those teams.

I watch much of the game in slow motion - its kind of something I started the last year or so that drives anyone else watching the game nuts (but the heck with my family).

Anyway, one thing I often notice is that the opponents receivers are just running scot free into these big empty zones - hardly ever being challenged when the ball is delivered.

Then when I watch the Bears receivers you see a defender riding in his jock strap and our guys are having to make these catches with someone draped all over them.

Obviously, this is a generalization but its just frustrating to watch ...I guess its just par for the course when you run the cover 2 as often as we do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 11:46:59 am
Spot on, Dallas.

I do recall a couple of games last year where the coaches finally let Peanut and the other CB get up in WRs' grills and by and large, the results were pretty decent.  The only way you can afford to give those big cushions in the D-backfield is if you are seriously getting after the QB up front and the past few years we haven't been very good at that.  Harrassing those WRs (within the limits of the rules, at least) helps throw the opposing QB off his rhythm and can give your pass rush that extra half-second that can mean the difference between a completion, an incomplete or even a sack or INT.

And I get nervous whenever someone suggests the Bears "manufacture" pass rush via the blitz.  We are a terrible blitzing team and have been for years.  That strategy has cost us far more than it has helped.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 30, 2012, 12:07:31 pm
Seems like we do pretty good blitzing DJ Moore or Major Wright but I agree, our LB blitzing is not real good. Fortunately they are pretty good at coverage.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 30, 2012, 12:31:52 pm
I think you guys are getting way too worked up over preseason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 30, 2012, 02:32:39 pm

Worked up?  Worked up?  Come on, man.  If the Bears don't look good tonight the season could be in jeopardy...and would be grounds for Lovie to be canned and Emery too. 

Big game tonight...Huge.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 02:40:04 pm
Tonight would be a good game to get Jeffery lots of reps and targets.

Since he probably won't get a lot of regular season playing time at least early on.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 30, 2012, 03:06:26 pm
Starters wont play more than a series will they? At least thats what I am thinking. Now maybe on the OLine things will be different. We always seem to play Cleveland in the preseason and if I remember right we never seem to do well against them. I remember going to one such game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 03:32:01 pm
I would be surprised if Cutler, Forte, Marshall, Peppers, Briggs or Tillman played at all.

McClellin could use the reps so I wouldn't mind seeing him get some run. And the starting OL, no question.  They could play the whole 1st half for all I care. They need the work.   Rodriguez has a lot of work to do on his blocking and route running so he may be pretty heavily in the rotation tonight as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 30, 2012, 03:36:44 pm
yapp, I wouldn't get upset if we sat all those guys you mention.
Play the OL until they seem to start clicking 1Q at least, possibly the whole 1st half.

The starting OL needs some time together.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 03:44:37 pm
Hester is another guy I would sit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on August 30, 2012, 08:59:41 pm
HMMM, so Lovie is telling the media Urlacher will practice this week.

Good news.

Bad news is Peppers says he has (sp) plantar  fasciitis  which doesn't go away.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 30, 2012, 09:01:54 pm
Actually the reporter said he had it.  Peppers said he wouldn't say that.  He said his foot was sore.  But yeah he probabaly has it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 30, 2012, 09:07:16 pm
Bears players are told not to talk to the media about their injuries. And if they do, to lie to the positive side.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 31, 2012, 05:17:16 am
Again, far from an elite athlete here but I have also had plantar facitis in my right foot.  The treatment is some rest and orthotic inserts in my shoes, which I stopped wearing a few years ago.  It is nagging, but not deabilitating depending on the severity.  Peppers is a freak to begin with he could probably play effectively on one foot and a peg leg.

As I am a runner, PF never stopped me from running.  Football is much more of a burst sport than running so it could stress it, but again with Peppers genetics and access to the best treatment possible this isn't an issue worth fretting over.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 31, 2012, 08:17:45 am
I had a problem with my right heel. The doctor called it PF. I wore inserts and the problem went away
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on August 31, 2012, 08:44:13 am
Isn't that what Antonio Gates had? He was pretty much usless with that injury.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 31, 2012, 09:22:08 am
As I am a runner, PF never stopped me from running.  Football is much more of a burst sport than running so it could stress it, but again with Peppers genetics and access to the best treatment possible this isn't an issue worth fretting over.

best treatment possible = massive pain killers

Isn't that what Antonio Gates had? He was pretty much usless with that injury.

Not sure but did Mike Brown have that too?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 09:31:15 am
I believe PF is what rendered Kevin Williams useless for the Vikings a season or two ago.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the severity of the case as well as the individual's pain threshold.

You've also got to figure a DL probably gets his foot stepped on 8 out of 10 plays (intentionally or by accident), so that can complicate things. I would expect that if the condition persists we may not see Peppers moving inside as much to try and minimize those incidents.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 31, 2012, 10:56:24 am
I would expect it to affect his explosion more than anything. I can imagine if you are 280 like Peppers or 320 like Kevin Williams it  makes it much worse than someone who is lighter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 31, 2012, 11:00:50 am
Bears cut nine, including Josh McCown

 Posted by Evan Silva on August 31, 2012, 11:57 AM EDT
 
Getty Images
Vaughn McClure of the Chicago Tribune reports the Bears have released quarterback Josh McCown.
 
The move leaves Chicago with only Jason Campbell and Jay Cutler on the roster at quarterback. They could look to the waiver wire for a third-stringer following Friday’s final cuts, or perhaps keep a No. 3 like Matt Blanchard on the practice squad.
 
McCown, 33, performed admirably down the stretch last season after taking over for Caleb Hanie, who was brutal. Unfortunately for the Bears, the season had already circled the drain by that point.
 
The Bears also have waived linebacker Jabara Williams, wide receiver Brittan Golden, safety Mark LeGree, and cornerbacks Cornelius Brown and Greg McCoy, per Brad Biggs of the Chicago Tribune. They hope to re-sign Williams to the practice squad. Mike C. Wright of ESPN Chicago reports rookie cornerback Isaiah Frey has been waived and should join Williams as an in-season practice body.
 
McClure reports running back Armanda Allen has also been waived.
 
Adam Caplan previously reported that fullback Tyler Clutts is among the Bears’ final cuts, as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 31, 2012, 11:03:34 am
Okoye released by Bucs, will sign with the Bears...weird.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 11:46:42 am
Even wierder would be if we cut Brian Price and he wound up back with the Bucs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 31, 2012, 11:49:11 am
Today’s cut-down day in the NFL, but there are apparently some incomings too.
 
Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Bears are finalizing a deal to bring back defensive tackle Amobi Okoye, who is being released by the Buccaneers.
 
Okoye was reportedly close to a return from knee surgery in June, but had missed three preseason games and the Bucs apparently ran out of patience.
 
The former No. 10 overall pick hasn’t developed into a dominant player, but can help with interior pass-rush and with the Bears banged up at the position as well, they needed the depth.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 11:49:53 am
I can think of a couple teams that McCown could go to today and compete to start. Those being, the Cardinals and the Jags.

If he wants to keep playing, I'm pretty sure there's a team that would make a place for him.  Especially after a really solid performance last night.

Blanchard is almost certainly coming back to our PS (if nobody claims him first).

Kinda wondering what happened to Summers. He was the talk of the training camp early on, then an early cut and now absolutely no news on him whatsover.  He must have really gotten on somebody's bad side after that 2nd preseason game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 11:53:48 am
Man...

That new HC down in Tampa isn't messing around when it comes to injured D-Linemen. Either you're good-to-go -- NOW -- or you're outta there. That's how we got Brian Price in the first place.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 31, 2012, 12:02:46 pm
No word on Price either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 31, 2012, 12:14:08 pm
The Sun Times article says that Henry Melton is our only healthy DT and that is why they are looking at getting Okoye back, which is funny since he isnt healthy. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 12:20:20 pm
Frankly, the Okoye cut shocked me since the Bucs have about as many depth issues along their DL right now as we do. Since salary was the thing that drove Okoye out of Chicago (or so we're told anyway), I suspect it may be a deal where Okoye is now willing to listen to a lower dollar offer, and Emery is willing to take a risk on taking him back if the price is right. Neither Okoye nor the Bears have a lot of options right now so those situations often lead to deals being struck that wouldn't have happened under more normal circumstances.

A healthy trio of Price, Okoye and Melton could really wreak havoc on the inside.  Whether all three of those guys in fact will ever be healthy at once is a whole 'nother deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 12:23:36 pm
I guess Clutts has netted us a CB:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/31/texans-trade-for-tyler-clutts/

Speaking of CB...  seeings how both our 6th and 7th round CBs got cut today, how long till people start questioning whether Emery should have spent at least one of those picks on an O-Lineman instead?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 31, 2012, 12:34:51 pm
The ONLY thing that surprises me is that Tyler Clutts was cut.  I knew he had a battle with Adams...and Tice prefers TEs.

As for McCown, maybe the Bears figure they can find him if there is an emergency.  Plus they need an extra roster spot for Quigley..at least for a week or 2.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 31, 2012, 12:43:47 pm

Price's problems at TB were not just injury related.  Remember he slugged their #1 draft pick during training camp and had the issues with his family.

As for Okoye, if he passes a physical then by all means sign him.  If he's not 100% he should be later on in the season when someone else might not be.

It's a long season and guys get injured...every week.    And FYI I heard Paea is ready to practice so I'd think in another week he should be good to go.

The questions now at DT are whether Okoye is good to go, and who the Bears decide to keep:  Price (who sustained some sort of head injury) and Collins (who has to sit out week #1).

We may  not have any stars at DT but we should have very solid depth.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 01:02:27 pm
I think Melton has the POTENTIAL to be a star 3-Technique -- the best we've had since Tommie in his prime -- IF we can just get that other DT position solidified with a big strong body that will command double teams on the inside.  1-on-1, Melton can own a lot of NFL Cs and OGs but he's not big or strong enough to hold up against double teams.  Keep in mind he was playing RB not too many years ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 31, 2012, 01:07:32 pm
I agree.  I really like Melton, but he's not at the level of someone like Tommie Harris was in his prime.   This is a contract year for him too so he could have a big year.

If we can get some of these guys healthy, DT which was considered a weakness going into the season, could be a strength.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 31, 2012, 01:11:00 pm
we actually got something in return for Clutts, imagine that.
Melton, Paea, Okoye, Price, Collins, there is a good bit of talent there though they seem to stay banged up.
That doesn't even count Toenia who has a good motor and a solid guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 01:13:48 pm
Speaking of which...  are the Bears playing the Izzy Idonije yo-yo game with Melton now?

Last year I swear he was listed at DT and played at 290 or 295.  But this year's roster (on chicagobears.com) has him back down to 260 and listed as a DE.

What the eff?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 01:24:18 pm
So apparently we're gonna go into the season with no FB whatsoever on our roster.

Interesting choice and one I hope doesn't come back on us.  But I guess when you're committed to keeping 4 TEs -- on top of which possibly having to carry 2 punters for at least the start of the season -- you have to make some tough decisions at other positions.

OTOH if you go back to Tice's days with the Vikings, they rolled with Jim Kleinsasser who was listed as a TE but for all intents and purposes was a FB. None of our 4 TEs can block half as good as Kleinsasser could, though. 

That being said, I expect Tice and Emery to come under some scrutiny if we struggle to run the ball and at the same time are not getting offensive production from our TEs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 31, 2012, 01:59:21 pm
Mike Brown had a Lys Franc injury.  No I am sure the spelling is awful, but that is what it was.

Getting stepped on does not affect the plantar facitis.  It is basically inflammation on the bottom of your foot from the inner heal up toward the ball of your foot.  It can hurt like a mother.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on August 31, 2012, 02:01:51 pm
Griz, you talking about basically the instep?
that must be why the new soles help, they keep the foot from flattening out as much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on August 31, 2012, 02:04:47 pm
Yep.  I have high arches which are more prone, don't know about Pepp's feet.  He should be fine, unless it is severe.  He seemed to be moving well enough...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 02:15:08 pm
Peppers at 75% is still better than most DEs in this league and a damn site better than whoever our 2nd best DE is supposed to be.

He was the only one getting anything done at all against the starting Giants O-Line last week.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 02:21:34 pm
One of the bloggers on BleacherReport thinks that the arrival of Okoye will mean the end of Brian Price in Chicago.

We shall see, but I'd be inclined to keep them both if there's any way possible.

Also remember that Nick Collins (if he makes the team) will not be available for the 1st game as he will be serving a suspension.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on August 31, 2012, 02:53:34 pm
For those in the Oshiomogho Atogwe fan club a couple years ago, he was released by the Iggles.  Wondering if the Bears are still looking for safety help in light of Hardin being IR'd (http://www.csnchicago.com/football-chicago-bears/bears-talk/Thanks-to-modified-rule-Hardin-could-pla?blockID=765511&feedID=10330&awid=5742882041631550363-914).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 03:10:43 pm
I think Atogwe is about done.

Last year he had 60 tackles and 3 INTs. Eagles must have thought that kind of production wasn't worth the money and that they could get more for less with somebody younger.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 03:52:35 pm
BleacherReport is announcing further Bears cuts (via Tweets from Brad Biggs):

DE Chauncey Davis
OT Cory Brandon
OG Ricky Henry
DT Jordan Miller
TE Brandon Venson

Re the DL, right now I would be very nervous if I were Corey Wootten or Brian Price as that unit is still overstaffed by a player or 2 even with the cuts listed above. What makes it extra tricky is that I read Okoye's physical is not scheduled till tomorrow but the roster has to be cut down by tonight. So if Emery's plan was to replace Price with Okoye he's not gonna have the info he needs before he has to decide on Price. 

It seems like most of the cuts at CB have already happened.  And honestly, with our Safety situation right now I'd have to say that if you're a Bears S and you showed anything at all during preseason AND you're healthy enough to take the field, you've probably got a spot.  I think I read where we already cut that S (LeGere?) we signed a few days ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 31, 2012, 04:04:55 pm
He can simply keep Price on the roster and then cut him if Okoye passes his physical.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on August 31, 2012, 04:05:19 pm
No surprises there, though I was hoping that Ricky Henry could beat out Chilo Rachal. 

OT James Brown is still alive as are DEs Wooten and Ozougwu.  One should be gone.

DTs Nate Collins and Brian Price not cut yet either, right?  And is Jeremy Jones still around?   You figure he may hang until they find a veteran.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 04:11:04 pm
I think Ozouwgo has the edge on Wootten right now.  Hard not to argue that Wootten has been given enough chances and hasn't done enough with them...  at this point really doesn't matter if that's due to injuries, lack of ability, lack or motivation or all of the above.  It might be time to give that roster spot to a younger, healthier guy and see what he can do.

Wootten will always have a special place in Bears fans' hearts for that Favre sack, though...

Agreed on Rachal.  I was hoping we'd steal a decent player with that pickup but he hasn't impressed me at all.  It could be that Emery is waiting to see who gets cut loose from other teams and at that point Rachal may still be a goner.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 04:16:12 pm
He can simply keep Price on the roster and then cut him if Okoye passes his physical.

I'm not sure about that.  That's not how I understand the cutdown rules but it could be.

More likely he would have to cut Price tonight and then hope to re-sign him if Okoye fails his physical.  But in doing that any other team has a chance to jump in and make a waiver claim on Price.  Supposedly Price left last night with a "head injury" so if that's code for concussion then that makes the situation even murkier.

I can see James Brown making the 53 but being a game-day inactive unless one of our starting OTs gets hurt or just totally craps the bed. It sounds like he looked pretty good at LT last night (no sacks on McCown), and we'd be fools to expose him to the PS with as many teams out there looking for anyone who can even sort of play that position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 04:24:57 pm
If Okoye passes the physical for the Bears that would raise some interesting questions. 

For example...  was Okoye sandbagging it in Tampa in hopes of getting out?  The new HC down there is running a really tight ship and I suppose there's an outside chance once Okoye got down there he realized playing in that environment really wasn't his thing.  It certainly sounds like a much different atmosphere than Lovie keeps, anyway.  Okoye may have decided it was worth giving up some money to play for a coach/system he believed in and when this injury thing dragged on it gave him an easy(er) out. And to have his release and the Bears' intent to sign him announced literally simultaneously...  really gives the appearance that some groundwork had already been laid between the two teams in advance. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 31, 2012, 04:54:25 pm
If Okoye passes the physical for the Bears that would raise some interesting questions. 

For example...  was Okoye sandbagging it in Tampa in hopes of getting out?  The new HC down there is running a really tight ship and I suppose there's an outside chance once Okoye got down there he realized playing in that environment really wasn't his thing.  It certainly sounds like a much different atmosphere than Lovie keeps, anyway.  Okoye may have decided it was worth giving up some money to play for a coach/system he believed in and when this injury thing dragged on it gave him an easy(er) out. And to have his release and the Bears' intent to sign him announced literally simultaneously...  really gives the appearance that some groundwork had already been laid between the two teams in advance. 

I dont know about that one.  He was in line to make $1.3 mil.  I think he would have given it a go. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on August 31, 2012, 06:24:34 pm
Bears down to 53, with four tight ends and no fullbacks

 Posted by Michael David Smith on August 31, 2012, 7:04 PM EDT
 
Getty Images
The Chicago Bears are the latest team to announce they’re down to the 53-man roster limit.
 
Among the noteworthy aspects of Chicago’s 53-man roster are that the Bears have decided to keep four tight ends in new coordinator Mike Tice’s offense: Kyle Adams, Kellen Davis, Evan Rodriguez and Matt Spaeth. The Bears have no fullbacks after trading Tyler Clutts to the Texans.
 
The Bears also terminated the contracts of six vested veterans: Quarterback Josh McCown, running back Armando Allen, linebacker Xavier Adibi, defensive end Chauncey Davis, receiver Rashied Davis and cornerback Jonathan Wilhite.

The Bears waived receivers Joe Anderson, Terriun Crump and Brittan Golden; tackles Cory Brandon, James Brown and A.J. Greene; cornerbacks Cornelius Brown, Isaiah Frey and Greg McCoy; guard Ricky Henry; safety Mark LeGree; defensive tackle Jordan Miller; tight end Brandon Venson; defensive end Aston Whiteside; and linebacker Jabara Williams.

Defensive tackle Nate Collins is still on the team but doesn’t count against the 53-man roster for Week 1 because he’s suspended for violating the league’s substance-abuse policy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 31, 2012, 06:47:20 pm
I am shocked Rachal is still a Bear and Brown is a goner
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on August 31, 2012, 08:41:39 pm
Brown will get picked up by someone. If Emery thinks he can get him back on the PS I think he's in for a rude surprise.

We're still plenty heavy on D Linemen, and thin as always on OL.. I would have cut Wootten and kept Brown.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on August 31, 2012, 09:01:14 pm
Hopefully Emery is just holding Rachal until he needs to cut someone after scooping up someone else who has been cut.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on August 31, 2012, 10:48:10 pm
.....or like Clutts he trades Rachal for a pick or a player we need
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 01, 2012, 03:21:19 am

Every year I kind of predict the 53 man roster after the last PS game and I've never nailed it.

My take on this year's roster:

QB - I didn't expect McCown to be cut but maybe the Bears figure they can find him (coaching HS football) if they need him.  Hoping they can keep Blanchard on the PS.

HB - I liked Booker's speed and Allen was PS eligible.  I think Allen looked good running the ball cuz our backup Oline dominated.  But his receiving skills stood out.

WR - No surprises.  Sanzenbacher benefited from Devin Thomas' retirement and Rashied Davis' age/injury.  Hoping Joe Anderson is there for the PS.

OL - We got 8 total - but surprised that rookie UDFA James Brown wasn't kept.   Another PS hopeful.

TE - They told us Tice likes TEs and they were right but I still liked Klutts.  At least we got something for him.

DE - 5 DEs!  Both Wooten and Ozu..#76 make the team.  But I bet one of them could be let go during the season.  Recall last year when we tried out Nick Reed and that other young DE before settling on Chauncey Davis.

DT - Potentially 6 DTs!  Melton, Toeaina and Paea.  Then you got Price - hope he's OK.  Collins gets a one week vacation to start the season and is off the roster and now Okoye has to pass a physical.   Like DE somebody has to go but probably by week 2.

LB - I thought they'd keep 6 they have but they kept 7.  Trahan beat out Jabari Williams.  Both were STs guys.

S -  Jeremy Jones...a rookie FA makes the team. Kind of small - must be a FS type.  And you figured Walters was in after Hardin was IRd.  I think either one could go if the Bears find someone better that's been released.

CB - I was kind of iffy on Wilhite and figured Frye might have a chance.  The trade came out of nowhere that brought a guy who was on the same Northwestern team as Wooten.   Sherrick McManus has Tillman's size.  It will be interesting to see if Frye and McCoy make the PS.

P - I didn't see why they need to bring in other punters - Quigley is the guy....for about a week and then he'll be cut AND the Bears can bring someone else back.  Maybe McCown?  Or Collins?  Or someone off the PS like a young offensive lineman names James Brown?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 01, 2012, 12:27:29 pm
Bears bring Blanchard back to the practice squad
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 01, 2012, 06:24:38 pm

Bears were kind of sneaky by not showcasing Blanchard to rest of the league along with Harvey Unga who was also signed to the practice squad.

Nobody saw Unga do anything but may be he has promise in the future as a replacement for the 28 year old Busch and Booker or as the FB in a new offense.

Joe Anderson was also kept as expected along with OT James Brown.  What wasn't expected was the OT Corey Brandon. 

Only 2 guys on defense on the PS.  Isiah Frey was no surprise but Aston Whiteside was off the radar.  I thought Jabari Williams had a shot too but I didn't see him on the list

They might move someone else to he PS off the 53 man if Okoye's knee checks out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 01, 2012, 07:32:01 pm
I just heard that the Vikings signed Chris Summers. Not real  happy about that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 01, 2012, 08:51:44 pm
Me either
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 02, 2012, 07:28:35 am

 You soak strips of leather in water ...

 you bind them to your body parts ...

 as they dry they become tighter ...

 which makes you more of a fighter.

 You have one way out ...

 death ... or Victory.

 2012 CHICAGO BEARS
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 02, 2012, 07:49:47 am
Guard Ricky Henry, whom the Bears waived Friday, was signed to the Saints practice squad. They tried to sign him to their 53-man roster late last season. … Wide receiver Chris Summers, let go in first cuts, joined the Vikings practice squad. … Safety Mark LeGree, waived by the Bears, will join the Falcons practice squad.


Well at least some of the guys we cut got jobs elsewhere, besides Arby's.  Maybe that is a step in the right direction, personnel wise.   Also said the Okoye deal is done. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 02, 2012, 09:49:26 am

Bears make “final” roster decisions, more changes coming
 August 31, 2012, 1:27 pm

JOHN "MOON" MULLIN

Updated: 8:47 p.m.

The Bears cut and pasted their 2012 roster of 53 players early Friday evening. It could be changing by early Saturday evening.
 
The first wave of roster adjustments saw the departures of veterans like quarterback Josh McCown and fullback Tyler Clutts, the latter traded to the Houston for cornerback and special-teamer Sherrick McManis.
 
Cornerbacks Isaiah Frey and Greg McCoy, the team’s last two picks in the 2012 draft, were among the cuts.
 
But a look at individual position groups make it apparent that there will be more adjustments coming.
 
Duly noted:
 
Each side of the ball typically gets 25 players plus three specialists. But offense currently is making do with 23 because injuries in all three main areas on defense, which has 26, and special teams, which has four, require reinforcing.
 
The squeeze on the offensive side meant McCown was a luxury, particularly at a veteran-minimum salary guaranteed if he was on the roster on opening day; and the line will start out with just eight placeholders. That was sufficient in 2011 but only because the Bears used two practice-squad spots for linemen to help on scout teams. At least one of the young tackles in training camp will be on the developmental squad.
 
Amobi Okoye, effective at defensive tackle last year but unable to get a contract he wanted to return to the Bears, will go through a physical on Saturday. He was cut by Tampa Bay and has knee issues that kept him out of three preseason games.
 
Expect either Okoye or Nate Collins to be in place by week two. Brian Price remains on the roster primarily because Okoye’s knee is a question and Collins will miss week one serving a one-game suspension for a substance abuse situation.
 
Cheta Ogougwu has been the Bears’ best edge rusher through preseason (three sacks) and “forced” the Bears to use a spot for him. Even with Stephen Paea’s ankle injury, the Bears opted to use a ninth roster spot on an end rather than a tackle. Corey Wootton is holding a spot in some part because of special teams because Ogougwu and the three other ends (Peppers, Idonije, McClellin) represent more rush threat.
 
Offense
 
Quarterback: Jay Cutler, Jason Campbell (2)

Out: Josh McCown

Comment: Needs elsewhere and price squeezed McCown.
 
Running back: Matt Forte, Michael Bush, Lorenzo Booker (3)

Out: Armando Allen

Comment: Allen is eligible for practice squad.
 
Wide receiver: Brandon Marshall, Earl Bennett, Devin Hester, Alshon Jeffery, Dane Sanzenbacher, Eric Weems (6)

Out: Joe Anderson, Terriun Crump, Brittan Golden, Rashied Davis

Comment: Sanzenbacher's play on special teams key to Bears keeping six.
 
Tight end: Kyle Adams, Kellen Davis, Evan Rodriguez, Matt Spaeth (4)

Out: Tyler Clutts (FB), Brandon Venson

Comment: Tice offense prefers TE's as lead blockers over fullbacks.
 
Offensive line: Gabe Carimi, Roberto Garza, Lance Louis, Chilo Rachal, Chris Spencer, Chris Williams, Edwin Williams (8)

Out: Corey Brandon, James Brown, A.J. Greene, Ricky Henry
   
Comment: Brandon a likely addition to practice squad.
 
Defense
 
Defensive line: Julius Peppers, Israel Idonije, Henry Melton, Matt Toeaina, Stephen Paea, Shea McClellin, Corey Wootton, Brian Price, Cheta Ozougwu (9)

Out: Chauncey Davis, Jordan Miller, Nate Collins (one-game suspension), Aston Whiteside

Comment: Price holding onto his spot is a longshot, with Amobi Okoye coming in for a physical and Collins available after game one.
 
Linebacker: Lance Briggs, Nick Roach, Brian Urlacher, Geno Davis, Blake Costanzo, Patrick Trahan, J.T. Thomas (7)

Out: Xavier Adibi, Jabara Williams
   
Comment: Urlacher's knee, special teams needs require one more than Bears’ norm for foreseeable future.
 
Cornerback: Tim Jennings, Charles Tillman, D.J. Moore, Kelvin Hayden, Sherrick McManis (5)

Out: Jonathan Wilhite, Isaiah Frey, Greg McCoy, Cornelius Brown

Comment: McManis a “teams” factor. Very veteran group.
 
Safety: Chris Conte, Jeremy Jones, Craig Steltz, Major Wright, Anthony Walters (5)

Out: Mark LeGree

Comment: Only Steltz has more than two NFL seasons’ experience.
 
Specialists: Robbie Gould, Pat Mannelly, Adam Podlesh, Ryan Quigley (4)

Comment: Quigley solid in two opportunities, a key fill-in until Podlesh over hip injury.   

Tags: Chicago Bears, Mike Tice, Halas Hall, josh mccown, Tyler Clutts
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 02, 2012, 10:04:20 am
So what happened to McCoy?

Also of note: Kyle Adams, the kid out of Purdue who the Bears like was also a FB in college. So while we didnt keep a FB per se, its not like we still dont have one.

And last but not least, what happens when Okoye is added to the mix? Does Price get cut or traded. It seems they like him or otherwise he wouldnt have lasted this long, but he is young and was a draft pick. I doubt he lasts on the practice squad. Moon suggests that Price is the one likely out. Maybe the Bears are looking to trade Price, after all he should have value beings he was a decent draft pickup. If he is young and just inexperienced he should be kept and some older guy let go. I have never been a Toeiana fan. Stay tuned. This mystery is still developing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 02, 2012, 10:51:11 am
As far as the LBs, Geno Davis didnt impress me at all.  And JT Thomas, although active seemed to make mistakes.  It was Adibi who seemed to really shine, at least what I saw.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 02, 2012, 12:36:49 pm
Yeah the LB cuts in particular seem a little odd given that in that last game against the Browns Adibi and Williams were two of the best defenders we had on the field.  Trahan is a special teams stud so he was going stick, and the coaches really like J.T. Thomas for whatever reason.

And that lineup at S does not inspire much confidence.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 02, 2012, 12:41:12 pm
Has it been reported yet whether Okoye passed his physical yesterday?

I was off the grid yesterday and haven't heard anything.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 02, 2012, 01:01:37 pm
Not a peep on Okoye.  Interesting.  I wonder if the Bears hack Drs didnt pass him....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 02, 2012, 06:44:44 pm
Cheta OWHO??? I've never heard of this guy. Didn't see the last game. He must have done something huh. Well....good. Maybe we can get a Mr. Anderson year out of the kid. And the Okoye deal is just baffling....let him go, he goes to the Bucs and gets injured, then we bring him back. ALRIGHTY then....guess we like our injured players....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 02, 2012, 11:47:26 pm
As far as the LBs, Geno Davis didnt impress me at all.  And JT Thomas, although active seemed to make mistakes.  It was Adibi who seemed to really shine, at least what I saw.

Geno Hayes was playing out of position most of PS - he's a WLB but was put it at SLB after the Urlacher injury.

JT Thomas showed good speed.  I'm sure he made some mistakes but he was on IR last year so he hasn't played football for 2 years and the last time was in college.

As for Ogougwu, I thought he and Collins were the best pass rusher in PS.   Assuming the Bears dress him on Sunday, he'll be give an few opportunities, but ultimately it may come down to keeping him or Wooten.

If the Bears keep 5 DTs, they can probably let Okoye heal up on the inactive squad, assuming his knee injury is something he can come back from this season.   I think they want to see what Price can do week 1 while Collins is serving his suspension. 

There is one extra spot for Quigley that may come into play, but that might be given back to McCown.  Hard to envision the Bears with 6 DTs - somebody has to go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 02, 2012, 11:55:10 pm
Quality pass rushers are worth their weight in gold. They need to get that Ogogo in the lineup somewhere for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 03, 2012, 08:46:09 am
Hmmm, Lovie on the radio this morning live just said Okoye isnt on the team, but the trib says he passed his physical and is on the team.  Interesting. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on September 03, 2012, 09:10:37 am
My guess is they want to see how Paea looks in practice today and maybe tomorrow before signing Okoye.

They will be close to the vest because whoever they release may be snathced up quickly by another team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 03, 2012, 10:01:15 am

Looks like Okoye passed his physical and I'd bet they add Collins when they cut Quigley:

Bears pulling the plug on Brian Price
Posted by Darin Gantt on September 3, 2012, 10:06 AM EDT
Brian Price AP

The Bears are swapping out one former Buccaneer for another.

After reaching a deal to re-sign Amobi Okoye after the Bucs cut him, the Bears needed a spot for him. They found it this morning, deciding to release Brian Price, according to Jay Glazer of Fox.

The Bucs traded a seventh-round pick for the former second-rounder in July, hoping to tap into the potential he showed in college.

In the end, they chose to go with the known quantity instead.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 03, 2012, 10:14:32 am
Looks like Wootten survived by the skin of his teeth. Too bad the Price thing didnt work out but they must have thought Okoye was the safer risk going forward. The fact that Okoye has prior experience in the scheme may also have tipped the balance.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 03, 2012, 10:22:59 am
According to Brad Biggs, lack of conditioning played a big part in the Price decision. Supposedly he was "unable to finish practice" multiple times.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 03, 2012, 10:25:58 am
I'll take a guy that works hard but has had a few health issues over the guy that isn't motivated enough to get in shape any day.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 03, 2012, 10:33:48 am
I was hoping that Price would have made the team considering everythng that he's had to go through.

Now the  Bears could only have 3 DTs for next weeks game if Okoye is not healthy and since Nate Collins is suspended.  But they do have 5 DEs so there may be some guys moving inside.

It may turn out that Collins suspension was a good thing considering they had to add the extra punter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 03, 2012, 10:44:18 am
I think its time to quit trading with the Bucs. At least where D-Linemen are concerned.

The DT depth/health thing is a major concern though and especially given that our first two games are within 4 days of each other and the 2nd one bring a critical division matchup. Cant afford to be short on DL firepower with the Pack looming on the horizon.

Its too bad we dont have a position player who could also fill in at P till Podlesh heals. Back in the day you could sometimes get that from your backup QB or a WR. Quigley is doing OK but it sucks we are having to use up two roster spots on that position when we're having health issues at so many other spots too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 03, 2012, 10:54:55 am
Brian Urlacher: My knee will never be the same, but I’m still playing

 Posted by Michael David Smith on September 3, 2012, 7:53 AM EDT
 
Getty Images
The bad news for Bears linebacker Brian Urlacher is that he has resigned himself to his surgically repaired left knee never again being completely healthy. The good news — for the Bears’ defense, if not for Urlacher’s long-term health — is that Urlacher says he can and will play through it.
 
Urlacher told the Chicago FOX affiliate that his knee “just isn’t the same anymore. It’s never going to be the same.”
 
At the same time, Urlacher said, there’s no doubt in his mind that he can be on the field and play effectively when the Bears open the regular season on Sunday against the Colts.
 
“I’m playing Sunday,” he said, via the Chicago Tribune. “That’s a done deal. I think Lovie said it a month ago, Sept. 9.”
 
Urlacher injured his knee in the final game of last season and has spent the entire offseason trying to get better, with multiple surgeries, experimental treatments, rest and rehabilitation. Urlacher said he feels better now than he did when he experienced a setback early in training camp.
 
“The knee has been an issue, obviously, since last season,” Urlacher said. “Felt good going into training camp. I was excited about it. Then, I kind of aggravated my knee during training camp. Then I had surgery, a little minor surgery, and it feels good again now. That’s all that matters, I feel good going into the season. It feels much better now. I have been running around quite a bit, not with the team in practice, I have been taking it really slow like Coach [Lovie] Smith said we would. Everything they are going to let me do, I’ll do. There is going to be some restrictions on what I can do because they don’t want to overwork me too early. It’s a long season. There will be some restrictions but there won’t be restrictions in the game on Sunday.”
 
Still, Urlacher acknowledged that “there is no way” to be in football shape when a player is as limited during training camp and the preseason as he has been. And he realizes there’s a chance that his knee will slow him down to such an extent that he’d be a liability in the Bears’ defense.
 
“If I can’t run, I’m hurting the team if I am out there not being able to do what I am normally able to do,” Urlacher said. “I wouldn’t do that, plus I am hurting myself. If it hurts, I won’t be out there. But there is no pain right now.”
 
The big question is whether Urlacher can make it through 16 games — or even one game — without the pain returning.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 03, 2012, 12:00:16 pm
Its the beginning of the end for the Bears D if what Urlacher is saying is true.

The last season the Bears had to play without #54 our defense was a disaster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on September 03, 2012, 01:46:54 pm
I said it before...this is the end of the line for Urlacher.  We Bears fans need to realize that and move forward. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 03, 2012, 02:07:06 pm
The first half of the Giants game is what we can look forward to when this D faces good offenses without Urlacher.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 03, 2012, 02:46:13 pm
Listened to the Score noontime. They said that Okoye added and Price cut.  The problem I have is NOT Price being cut it is the loss of the 7th roun pick we gave the Bucks for Price.I suspect the reason for the delay adding Okoye and seemingly having Price too was Emery was trying to scrounge up a pick or player in return fr Price
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 03, 2012, 04:22:26 pm
The place where Emery comes under rightful scrutiny in all of this is, we will likely wind up paying Price's guaranteed salary plus whatever we wind up paying Okoye. That's easily gonna be over a million dollars between the two.

Ultimately we would have wound up spending less if we had we just re-signed Okoye from the get go. And we'd still have that draft pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 03, 2012, 04:23:28 pm
It's a seventh rounder we lost.  No big deal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 03, 2012, 04:34:14 pm
For his part Okeye doesnt seem to have any hard feelings towards the Bears.

Doesnt sound like he cares much for the Bucs new HC though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 03, 2012, 06:38:02 pm
The sooner they start grooming that new DE kid to be Urls replacement, the better off we'll be.....I think the kid can do it....McClennin or whatever...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on September 03, 2012, 07:01:32 pm
I am with Phil, 7th rounder big deal.  Player probably doesn't make team anyways.

Don't forget Omi wanted to be a starter which is why he went to T.B.  We had chance to get him back, cheap.  I am not going to throw Emory under bus for making the moves to better team.

Don't forget Angelo forgot to check the box on Colvin at this same stage in his GM career.  So far much better start for Emory.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 03, 2012, 07:05:28 pm
Quigley is doing OK but it sucks we are having to use up two roster spots on that position when we're having health issues at so many other spots too.


Assuming the Bears really preferred Collins over Price and that Podlash returns for the 2nd game - its really not a big deal carrying Quigly week 1. 

However, they might have been able to evaluate Price week 1 and then made a decision on him or Collins before week 2 (or some other player).

I hope Collins can continue to perform like he did in PS.  He fits the Bears prototype size for the position the same as Melton, Paea, and Okoye do.  That's kind of why I liked Price - he was a bigger dude.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 03, 2012, 07:07:21 pm
The first half of the Giants game is what we can look forward to when this D faces good offenses without Urlacher.

I said it before...this is the end of the line for Urlacher.  We Bears fans need to realize that and move forward.


Maybe...maybe not.  I guess we'll just have to see him play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 03, 2012, 07:11:58 pm

 As far as a seventh round pick being no big deal ...

 Webb is a seventh round pick.

 Every round is a big deal.

 RICHARD DENT was an eighth round pick back in the day.  ;D

 Superbowl MVP and HOF.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 03, 2012, 07:15:29 pm
The sooner they start grooming that new DE kid to be Urls replacement, the better off we'll be.....I think the kid can do it....McClennin or whatever...

McClellin was drafted and has been coached to help us with our pass rush. 

Now IF Urlacher is done AND IF Roach is ineffective at MLB AND IF Costanzo is also ineffective at MLB then Lovie might do something radical like play SMc at MLB.   

I wouldn't rule it out completely.  But it just doesn't see likely at this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 03, 2012, 07:19:02 pm

At the time of the trade for Price they had the likes of McCargo and Pressley as serious options for a roster spot.  I think Price makes the team and probably sits for a couple weeks and gets back into playing shape if it were not for Okoye surprisingly becoming available.

Nobody likes to lose a draft pick - but it was a 7th and hopefully it was conditional but I don't think so.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 03, 2012, 07:22:52 pm
The sooner they start grooming that new DE kid to be Urls replacement, the better off we'll be.....I think the kid can do it....McClennin or whatever...

McClellin was drafted and has been coached to help us with our pass rush. 

Now IF Urlacher is done AND IF Roach is ineffective at MLB AND IF Costanzo is also ineffective at MLB then Lovie might do something radical like play SMc at MLB.   

I wouldn't rule it out completely.  But it just doesn't see likely at this point.

 Ive thought all along thats why they brought him in ... maybe not at this point as you said.

 Urlacher never started at MLB when they drafted him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 03, 2012, 07:28:59 pm

 Anybody remember that Urls was a converted SAFETY at New Mexico?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 03, 2012, 07:44:59 pm

You are correct and Urlacher played SLB in the preseason but couldn't beat out Colvin.  Juaron only played him at MLB when Barry Minter got hurt early in the season.

Not saying SMc couldn't play MLB this year - he already knows how to drop into pass coverage and actually has done so on occasion in PS. 

But Urlacher alone not playing MLB would not force SMc there.  We really need SMc rushing the passer.

Maybe the Bears could come up with some scenarios where SMc could do both.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 03, 2012, 08:13:05 pm
Right now McClellin is not good enough at any one thing to warrant a starting position, whether that's at DE or LB. We basically spent our 1st round pick on a spot player, and one needing a fair amount of development at that.. So the question then becomes do we get more value playing him in special packages at multiple positions, or continuing to groom him at DE only and hoping he eventually becomes more at that position than just a 3rd down player?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 03, 2012, 08:33:20 pm
Right now McClellin is not good enough at any one thing to warrant a starting position, whether that's at DE or LB. We basically spent our 1st round pick on a spot player, and one needing a fair amount of development at that.. So the question then becomes do we get more value playing him in special packages at multiple positions, or continuing to groom him at DE only and hoping he eventually becomes more at that position than just a 3rd down player?

 I think it comes down to intelligence ... is he smart enough to captain the defense of the future?

 If you can come out of saftey and go to MLB ... why not out of DE?

 Anybody know what he did on the wonderlic?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 03, 2012, 08:44:22 pm

 And another thing ... we were 6th against the rush last season.

 The last thing in the world we needed was another DL.

 We needed a LT ten times more in the first round.

 Why would we draft a Jarod Allen clone when one wasnt needed?

 This guy has to be being groomed to take over from Urlacher.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 03, 2012, 11:32:28 pm
Right now McClellin is not good enough at any one thing to warrant a starting position, whether that's at DE or LB. We basically spent our 1st round pick on a spot player, and one needing a fair amount of development at that.

It doesn't mean he can't help the team now...or that he won't be starting later in the season or next season.

Guess what?  Quentin Coples taken 16th...he ain't starting for the Jets.  Neither is Melvin Ingram taken at #18 by the Chargers.  Chandler Jones is starting for the Pats...but they are so dreadful defensively as our the Packers who are starting Nick Perry.  But a guy I thought we might take, Whitney Mercillus is not starting in Houston.

And I'd bet there's a bunch of first rounders not starting this weekend.  It doesn't mean they were bad picks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 07:59:21 am
Wasn't saying McClellin is a bad player.  Saying it's gonna take some time before he starts returning real value and it's our coaching staff's job to put him in positions where he can start doing that as quickly as possible.  Is that gonna happen by keeping him only at DE and playing him on 3rd downs, or is it gonna happen by playing a shell game with him sometimes at DE and sometimes at a sort of LB/DE position (like we used to do with Colvin), to take advantage of mismatches? That's what the coaches need to figure out.

I assume Emery didn't pick McClellin without the input and approval of Lovie so I assume the coaches have some plan for him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 04, 2012, 09:24:11 am
....Or at least you would hope they have a plan. But even the best plans can change
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 10:20:43 am
I have to think Urlacher being less than 100% for most or all of the upcoming season was NOT in the plan.

Now it's on Lovie and Marinelli to make whatever adjustments are necessary to field a defense that is still competitive and won't require 30 pts a game from our offense and STs. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 04, 2012, 10:26:56 am

First they have to see how he's responding during the week - though practice is never a substitute for the real thing.  Urlacher says he'll play every down but the Bears do have options.  They can take him out on long passing downs and put in someone like Steltz.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 04, 2012, 10:43:04 am
What I am kinda scratching my head about is the lack of any roster adjustments prior to the opener. We need an OT, a safety and likely a DT or DE depending on how they use Izzy. And they let one DT go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 11:07:42 am
If there's any question about Urlacher leading up to Sunday I say sit him for that game and let him get as good as he can be for the Packers game just 4 days later.

If we can't beat the Colts without Urlacher then we are probably not a playoff caliber team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 04, 2012, 11:11:04 am
They apparently gave a tryout to ex-SteelerOT Jonathon Scott - but I think he may have had some sort of injury concerns.  At this point it is going to be difficult to find someone better than Webb or Williams - Williams though not a starter-quality LT can backup 4 positions.  (Doesn't say a whole lot especially considering this is his contract year).  And they do have 2 rookies on the PS:  James Brown and Corey Brandon.

I thought they might pick up an experienced safety.  Right now they have 5:  Conte, Wright, Steltz, and Anthony Walters and Jeremy Jones.  I'd think they might be able to stash Jones on the PS if they found a quality guy but maybe they like what they have.  Recall they went the FA route last year with Brandon Merriweather.

They are stocked depth-wise at DE and DT this season.  5 DEs (Peppers, Idonijie, McClellan, Wooten and #76 (I'll remember his name if he starts getting sacks).  And they'll soon have 5 DTs with Melton, Toeaina, Paea, Okoye and possibly Collins after his 1 week suspension.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 11:19:02 am
The fact that the Bears brought two OTs back to the practice squad (Brown and Brandon) makes me think that Emery doesn't exactly consider the OT situation settled yet.

It would not surprise me if Brown in particular got promoted to the 53 at some point this season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 11:34:25 am
Ravens may have released Bryant McKinnie.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/04/ravens-trying-to-restructure-mckinnies-deal-may-release-him/

It's too bad this guy is such a tool.  If his mind were right he would immediately be the best OT on our roster.

Of course, if his mind were right he wouldn't be on the market, either.

Right now, with the size of his contract, the only team that's gonna sign McKinnie is a team that's willing to plug him in as their starting LT with Game 1 of the regular season less than a week away.  I can't think of any team that would do that (with the possible exception of the Cardinals)... and certainly not the Bears.  If he has indeed been cut, he could be out there waiting for awhile. 

OTOH...  he and Tice did seem to work together pretty well in Minnesota... 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 04, 2012, 11:42:45 am

The fact that the Bears brought two OTs back to the practice squad (Brown and Brandon) makes me think that Emery doesn't exactly consider the OT situation settled yet.

It would not surprise me if Brown in particular got promoted to the 53 at some point this season.


Agreed. Brown is plan C with Chris Williams being Plan B and Webb is plan A.

...and Carimi is Plan D.

And Webb gets to face Dwight Freeney Sunday.  And on the other side is Robert Mathis.  So its going to be tough to always roll protection to help Webb.

BTW, the Colts are playing a 3-4 with Freeney and Mathis as OLBs.  Not sure if this is their first year with that defense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 11:44:35 am
PFT is reporting that Bryant McKinnie has indeed been released by the Ravens.

So tempting, because when healthy and motivated he is a Pro Bowl LT...  but not sure we have the flexibility with our current roster to take him on. An O-Lineman currently on the 53 would have to be let go and most likely that would be an interior guy (Edwin Williams or maybe Rachal).

On top of which IIRC, there is a pecking order to claim someone off waivers and I have to guess there are at least a few teams that would be wiling to give him a shot who would be ahead of us in that line.  The Cardinals OL for example has been an epic fail this preseason and they would be fools not to at least bring him in for a look.

Apparently the crux of the issue in Baltimore is that they feel he has underperformed his contract and they want him to re-structure.  But I'm thinking that if he's not willing to bring his best in Baltimore...  one of the best coached and best-run organizations in the league with a ton of quality veteran leadership... I doubt his odds of straightening out in Chicago would be that great either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 04, 2012, 12:18:17 pm
McKinnie would be a great pickup
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 04, 2012, 12:27:46 pm
Personally, I believe they picked up Urlachers eventual replacement in McClendon, whether on purpose or inadvertently remains to be seen, but I can see the kid playing Urls spot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 12:35:29 pm
Assuming McKinnie hit the open market and we signed him, I see the following possible scenarios:

If it works out
  - We have a legitimate starting LT at what would almost certainly be a below fair market value price. It still would not be more than a stopgap solution for this season or maybe the next 2, tops.

If it doesn't work out
  - We cut him (and eat cap), or we keep him (and pay starters money for a sub who really can't play any other position than LT)
  - We are minus whichever OL currently on the 53 that we'd have to cut to add McKinnie; meaning if we cut McKinnie we'd be a body short which would force us to promote an O-Lineman from the practice squad, possibly before he's ready
  - We have [potentially] damaged Webb's confidence and retarded his development by sending him back to the bench

We saw this movie before with Orlando Pace, and it did not turn out well.  I personally believe McKinnie has more left in the tank than Pace did, but the question as it has been throughout his career, is discipline and motivation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 04, 2012, 12:42:05 pm
Boy,the Bears braintrust would be total fools to not at LEAST take a shot with McKinnie. How could he be any worse than what's there presently? Guess it's possible he dropped off the earth...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 12:49:14 pm
I'm figuring the Rams would have first waiver dibs on McKinnie and if they pass on him, the Cardinals will scoop him up.

The odds of Emery even having the opportunity to make a decision on McKinnie would be slim to none.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 04, 2012, 01:11:47 pm

Signing McKinnie would be tempting - right now he's an average LT which is probably better than what most here think of Webb.  And from what I can tell McKinnie was slotted to start at LT this season.

We'd be 19th in line to sign him...and if it doesn't work out he'd get his salary guaranteed since he was on the roster week 1.


Rachal would be the guy I'd let loose.  Chris and Edwin Williams can also play guard.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 01:32:29 pm
I'd agree that Rachal is the guy that would have to go to make room for McKinnie.

Yeah we'd be swapping out an OG for an OT but like Dallas said, we'd still have interior depth. Webb, Chris Williams and Carimi aren't going anywhere...  this year, at least.

And, Rachal IIRC is here on a not-real-big one-year contract so that would be the sensible cut from a cap perspective as well.

19th in line on the waiver list...  yikes.  Like I said, even if he does hit the market our odds aren't good.

Does a player in that situation have any options?  I mean, if McKinnie really wanted to come to Chicago could he just say no thanks to the Rams or Cardinals or whoever else might have put in a claim ahead of us?  Or is it like the draft where the player has to go to the first team in line to make a claim?  It seems like we figured out a way to shortcut that whole process to get Okoye back here, so I'm wondering why McKinnie's case would be any different.
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 04, 2012, 01:48:50 pm
If the Ravens cut him, his salary might be big enough that folks want him to clear wavers.
Tice should know as well as anyone if he wants him and McKinnie might like coming back to work under Tice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 01:56:48 pm
Emery is not going to sign Bryant McKinnie to be anything less than the immediate starter at LT. 

It's 2 PM Central Tuesday right now and the Bears kick off the regular season at noon CT Sunday. Even if we signed McKinnie today he'd have, at MOST, two practices in pads with the Bears and maybe a walk-through.  Is Emery comfortable with a guy in that situation protecting Cutler's blindside against Dwight Freeney?

Or maybe the more appropriate question is, is Emery less uncomfortable with that scenario than he is with Webb starting at LT after a full training camp and preseason? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 04, 2012, 02:27:15 pm
If we signed McKinney I would likely sit him a week to start at GB.
He might be familiar with some of the Tice O but there could be a lot of changes from what he did back then.
My understanding of the current playbook is passing from the Bates O in Denver + the running game that worked last year + a little other stuff sprinkled in there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 04, 2012, 02:30:52 pm
We cut him (and eat cap), or we keep him (and pay starters money for a sub who really can't play any other position than LT)

I understand, but isnt that what we are doing with Chris Williams? Arent we paying him starting LT money?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 04, 2012, 02:33:01 pm
And the Trib is saying the Ravens are close to working out contract differences with McKinnie. Cant say how true that is
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 02:36:30 pm
I understand, but isnt that what we are doing with Chris Williams? Arent we paying him starting LT money?

The difference being that Chris Williams can backstop the LT, LG and RT positions as a sort of "super-sub"

Whereas McKinnie is pretty much a LT only.

Not saying that Chris Williams isn't overpaid -- he is, and has been his entire time here -- but as a 2nd-stringer he is a better value than McKinnie would be due to his versatility.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 04, 2012, 02:37:40 pm
Now the Trib is saying they have restructured his contract
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 04, 2012, 02:38:40 pm
Well so much for that opportunity.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 04, 2012, 02:39:30 pm
Sigh!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 04, 2012, 04:47:50 pm

 The HALAS HALL braintrust made up their minds long before McKinnie was on the market.

 What you see is what you get.

 Where did things work at in pre-season ?

 They kept in TE's and at what could be best called FB's to block.

 Thats your OL ... blockers that can get out and catch a pass or take a handoff.

 Can Forte block and get open ?

 It's going to get interesting. N.E. went to a Superbowl wth a 2 TE set.

 Hernandez of NE rushed for 150 yds. in one game. He's a fuuucking TE.

 Think about it. The game is changing ... NE is setting the rules. They almost got there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 04, 2012, 10:13:29 pm
Why we drafted McClellin and why he is needed to play DE:

Last season, the Bears finished with 33 sacks and were 29th in the league in sacks per pass play. Julius Peppers led the team with 11 sacks but didn't get enough help, considering the double teams he often encountered.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 04, 2012, 10:37:47 pm
Why we drafted McClellin and why he is needed to play DE:

Last season, the Bears finished with 33 sacks and were 29th in the league in sacks per pass play. Julius Peppers led the team with 11 sacks but didn't get enough help, considering the double teams he often encountered.

What does that say about the rest of the DL last season?

However ... 6th against the rush ... that says somthing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 04, 2012, 10:39:18 pm
Bears not only tried to sneak Blanchard to the PS but they did the same with Unga:

 Blanchard, the rookie quarterback from Lake Zurich High School and Division II Wisconsin-Whitewater, was cut before last week’s final preseason game. The Bears knew they wanted him on their practice squad but apparently didn’t want him to put anything on tape that might interest another team.

It almost backfired. The Miami Dolphins called Blanchard after he cleared waivers and brought him down for a tryout.

‘‘It went well,’’ Blanchard said. But by then, ‘‘things were developing with Chicago, so we kind of knew I was going to come back here.’’
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 05, 2012, 06:03:18 am
Well, if this comes true we will have plenty of activity on the board for the next 3 years, lol...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0905-bears-pompei-chicago--20120905,0,7320256.column

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 07:59:58 am
Peppers gets held even more often than than he gets double teamed.

If the refs would simply call holding he would be getting 20 sacks a season and/or we'd be getting 70-80 free yards per game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 08:03:01 am
If they extend Lovie then it needs to be a year-to-year deal.  He only produces when his back's against the wall.  Make him audition for his job every year or his teams WILL underperform, guaranteed.

I would also like to see any evidence that his defense can be consistently good to great against the pass before I talk about extending him at all.  He has staked his career on his Tampa-2 D and if his D isn't working anymore (as I suspect we will see often this year), he shouldn't be either.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 10:16:26 am
Apparently Brian Price cleared waivers.  If the Bears wanted to sign him back and either IR him for next year or cut one of the current DL to make room, that's now an option on the table.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 05, 2012, 10:53:38 am
Apparently Brian Price cleared waivers.  If the Bears wanted to sign him back and either IR him for next year or cut one of the current DL to make room, that's now an option on the table.

Not only did they lose a 7th round pick for Price but they are also paying his salary for this season.   They could have IRd him last week but then again I'm not sure you can IR a guy for being fat.

Maybe they could re-sign him later on in the season if Collins doesn't work out or one of our other DTs go down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 05, 2012, 11:03:29 am
Quote
  Smith changed his diet, eliminating processed foods, bread, red meat and most dairy products.

What the hecks left?? Must eat grass and leaves or something.....he's become a 'grazer'....Michael Clark Duncan did all that, too....how'd that work out for him?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 05, 2012, 11:19:48 am

Eats Mor Chikin
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 11:20:33 am
That's concerning.  The brain needs a certain amount of protein and fat to maintain proper functioning.  Red meat isn't the only source of those components, but it's one of the better sources and one of the most readily available.

Too little protein in your diet, and you get stupid. You lose focus and start making bad decisions. True fact.  An NFL head coach can't afford that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 05, 2012, 11:59:14 am
most of the folks that eat like that eat a lot of fish, chicken and beans.
That being said, red meat is one of the best sources of iron but I expect he is taking supplements as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 05, 2012, 12:04:05 pm
Apparently Brian Price cleared waivers.  If the Bears wanted to sign him back and either IR him for next year or cut one of the current DL to make room, that's now an option on the table.

Not only did they lose a 7th round pick for Price but they are also paying his salary for this season.   They could have IRd him last week but then again I'm not sure you can IR a guy for being fat.

Maybe they could re-sign him later on in the season if Collins doesn't work out or one of our other DTs go down.


It bothers me. Just a theory but Collins was an Emery FA signing who got cought for substance abuse. Maybe there is some rule they couldnt cut Collins. I think he is out till next Monday then he can resume practice and be on the roster. If Collins comes back and isnt as good as before they just may cut him. I havent figured out why they never cut Collins and kept Price. I did not know they have to pay Price's salary in addition to losing a 7th round pick they traded for him. I hope there is something that comes out later that clears up the mystery. I thought when you cut a player his salary came off the books and all he got was his bonus money and some severance pay. How do they have to pay his whole salary for the whole season? And how can they put him on IR if he has no injury?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 12:09:59 pm
Kind of ironic that a lot of us (myself included) were bemoaning the lack of DT depth right after the draft and now we're talking about three guys (Price, Collins and Okoye) who could all wind up being decent to very good backups if we can just figure out a way to get them all on the roster.

The guy who might want to not get too comfortable in all this is Matt Toeiana.  Reportedly he did not have a very good preseason and if Emery and the coaches decide to try and re-coup their investment by re-signing Price, Toeiana (being older and less talented) could be the one giving way even though he's on the 53 as of today.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 05, 2012, 12:42:24 pm
I may be mistaken about the Bears paying Price's salary, but I thought I read that the Bears would have to pay him something around $500K for the season.  Please correct me if I'm wrong

The reason why the Bears are keeping Collins is that he was very active in getting to the QB in PS.  Its going to take some time with Price to get back into shape and apparently the Bears did not want to wait figuring that they may have to wait for Okoye to be 100%.

Toeaina isn't the prototype Bears undersized pass rushing DT, but that guy gives you 100% all the time.  He was kind of banged up last season but  he's probably the best run stopping DT on the team - and I think the team needs at least one guy like that.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 05, 2012, 12:45:31 pm
I think Toenia has limited skills but a great motor and is a hard worker.
I think Collins looked good during the PS which is why we are keeping him.
I think Price didn't look so good but had part of his contract guaranteed so when we accepted the trade we also accepted that guarantee.
I expect we cut Price because he was the worst looking of our DTs. If he had come over in shape he might still be on the team and we wouldn't be taking a risk on a banged up Okoye.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 12:53:17 pm
From what I can put together about Price's short stint with the Bears, his problem wasn't so much injuries per se as it was conditioning. Lovie's scheme demands the D-Linemen to be pretty fit and trim and Price wasn't making the grade in that regard. Now it may be that his injuries resulted in him being in less than ideal condition -- as very often happens to big-bodied O-Linemen and D-Linemen whose injuries render them immobile for a period of time -- but I never got the impression that injuries directly contributed to Price's being let go in Chicago.

Like someone else here said, I'm not sure the rules allow IR'ing a guy just for being out of shape. And in any event, taking a guy off-line for the entire season before the season even starts is a pretty drastic step to take.  So that was not an option for Emery. The most logical move to me would have been to put him on the PUP list as it would have allowed Price 6 games to get into game shape and then we make a decision from there. 

I think it just came down to the fact that when Okoye unexpectedly came available and expressed a desire to come back to Chicago, swapping Price for him was a pretty easy choice to make even with the forfeited 7th round draft pick and $500k against the cap. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 05, 2012, 01:24:40 pm
Yes, thats it. Why forfeit a 7th round pick and pay the guy some guaranteed money when you could have just put him on the PUP list? Something screwy there. Maybe like the failed check box Emery had a brain cramp. It will be interesting to see what happens come Monday when Collins is due back. Maybe the Bears felt sorry for the kid with family members lost and all that. But this has the earmarks of some failed plan. Being a rookie he should be elgible for the practice squad at least you'd think. Maybe the kid is a bad locker room guy and they just wanted him to be gone. Just plain screwy if you ask me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 01:27:06 pm
Brian Price isn't a rookie.  He's in his 3rd year.

And he played 20 games for Tampa so his practice squad eligibility is long gone.  Definitely a curious case from several angles. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 05, 2012, 01:37:15 pm
I think no matter what we did with price (cut him, IR etc) we still have to pay him his $510k and we still lose the 7th.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 01:45:32 pm
Well we've been waiting 3 years for one of our 7th round picks to pay off (Unga), so why not Price too?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 05, 2012, 02:24:49 pm
"The reason why the Bears are keeping Collins is that he was very active in getting to the QB in PS"

I was thinking the exact same thing about Collins.  Cant wait to see what he can do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 05, 2012, 02:30:24 pm
Price reminded me of Adams out there...about as wide as he was tall.  Still he was a 2nd round pick after having a nice career at UCLA, was only 23 years old, and he did play in 14 games last season....but

Bears need pass rushers now...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 02:41:53 pm
If anyone is curious here are a couple of scouting reports that came out on Brian Price before he was drafted.

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/1/20/1254004/brian-price-nfl-draft-scouting

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010bprice.php

http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-report-brian-price

Clearly there was a lot to like about the kid coming out and it's not a big surprise he went as high in the draft as he did. In fact, reading the scouting reports you see a lot of similarlities to pre-injury Tommie Harris. Whether Price can overcome a tremendously rocky start to his career to come anywhere close to realizing his potential remains to be seen.  Assuming of course any team even considers him worth the gam*ble at this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 05, 2012, 04:45:27 pm
When you think about it we have had some bad dealings with Tampa. We can add Price to the list after trading a 2nd for a dead man. I just cant bring myself to deal with them anymore. Just bad!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on September 05, 2012, 05:36:25 pm
LoL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 06:52:24 pm
Not to mention Tampa provided us with Angelo in the first place.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 05, 2012, 07:16:40 pm
I may be wrong, but I think if you cut a player before the 1st game, you are not on the hook for his salary.  Anyone can claim him, and no one did.  Not sure what the 3rd year minimum salary is but it can't be much less than $500,000.  Anyway, I think he was cut, because the Bears had to carry Quigley. 

Would someone sign Price for more than the minimum?  Probably not.  So he has to way staying with a team that traded for him and fits his skill set, or moving on to another scenario.

I don't think we owe him a dime...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 08:35:50 pm
I'm pretty sure the only way we'd get out of paying his salary was if another team had claimed him off waivers.

Which is pretty crazy cause he could wind up not playing at all this year and still pocketing a cool half mil.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 05, 2012, 08:58:20 pm
I'm with GB, I would be shocked if we owed him a dime. Players get cut all the time in the NFL and dont cost their teams a dime. What makes this guy any different. Injury cut? Yeah I see that. There was no injury that I am aware of.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 05, 2012, 09:10:30 pm
I think I read that it has something to do with Price being a vested veteran.  But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 05, 2012, 09:38:15 pm
He was cut before the season began.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 06, 2012, 05:13:31 am
Contracts are only guaranteed if you play the first game.  That is why veterans are signed after the first game so they can be released later without penalty.  The only thing we are on the hook for is the draft choice.

I wouldnt be surprised if we signed him next week...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 06, 2012, 07:53:44 am
That could be.  I.e. the Bears have some sort of gentleman's agreement with Price that as soon as Podlesh is good to go and they can get Quigley off the roster, Price will be re-signed.

We shall see. It would be nice to have him back for the Packers game (even if he's not in top shape yet), but not sure the timing with our punter situation will allow that. If he does rejoin the Bears I think more likely it would be sometime between the Packers game and the one after that since there's a lot of time in between.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 06, 2012, 07:54:44 am
Contracts are only guaranteed if you play the first game.  That is why veterans are signed after the first game so they can be released later without penalty.  The only thing we are on the hook for is the draft choice.

I wouldnt be surprised if we signed him next week...

I wouldnt either, in fact I'd be surprised if it didnt happen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 06, 2012, 08:03:12 am
Price appears to have some issues with motivation. This goes back even to his college scouting reports. Now granted, his injuries and personal tragedies can't have helped the situation, but the whole motivation/conditioning thing isn't something that's just recently surfaced with him.

The thing is that at this point -- barely 3 years into the league -- Price's NFL career is effectively over. He's been traded for peanuts by the team that made him a high 2nd round draft pick, been released by a 2nd team and has drawn no interest on the waiver wire. And he has his sister's orphaned kids to support. So I have to think if he's not motivated at this point, nothing will ever do it.  Which could mean a pretty darn good player for the Bears if they're willing to bring him back, he's ready to repay that loyalty and the solid veteran leadership on this team will take him under their wing. And of course, his health holds from here on out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 06, 2012, 08:14:46 am
The thing that gets me is here is this young DT and he only cost us a 7th round pick. I have a hard time desiring to cut the guy. I'd rather work with the guy and straighten him out than lose him off the waiver wire.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 06, 2012, 08:17:24 am
Agreed.  Heck, Toeiana was a 6th round pick IIRC, and Price has 10 times the talent of Toeiana and is a lot younger. When you're a new GM inheriting a roster as depleted as Angelo left us, you have to take some calculated risks on guys to get your talent up to snuff faster.  Same reason I would have been 100% behind pursuing Bryant McKinnie if he had come available.

Price is definitely a bit of a reclamation project at this point (physically and psychologically), but there's enough upside to make it worth the risk IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 06, 2012, 01:11:52 pm
"Every year I see more and more coverage — especially the past two years,'' Marshall said. "The good thing about being here is we have Alshon Jeffery, Earl Bennett and we haven't even gotten to the backfield yet.

Hmm...no mention of Devin Hester.  You know, the other starter along with BM.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 06, 2012, 01:40:55 pm
You know, the other starter along with BM.

For now. By Thanksgiving? Different story.

Come the cold and wind to Soldier Field, Hester will be riding pine and Jeffery and Marshall will be torturing opponents' CBs routinely. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 06, 2012, 01:54:50 pm
Jeffery and Marshall will be torturing opponents' CBs routinely.


Boy we can only hope. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 06, 2012, 04:34:41 pm
Jeffery and Marshall will be torturing opponents' CBs routinely.


Boy we can only hope.

Agreed, provided the OLine gives Cutler enough protection
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on September 06, 2012, 09:27:50 pm
i wouldn't expect our pass protection to be any worse than last year.

They progressed from awful to bad.    I expect with a whole offseason of work for another step up to poor.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 06, 2012, 11:02:14 pm
Cutler was on the run a lot a few weeks ago, against the same Giants pass rush the Cowboys pretty much shut down last night.

Just sayin.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 06, 2012, 11:57:03 pm

And Romo wasn't on the run?   Romo made his O-line look a lot better then they really are - just like Cutler will.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 07, 2012, 04:48:49 am
Why should he have to run for his life to make the Oline look better than they are? You are always giving that Oline more credit than is warranted.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 07, 2012, 05:59:57 am
I think the point was that Romo wasn't standing back there like Tom Brady flossing his teeth waiting for receivers to come open...  Dallas and Chicago olines look more similar than either do to New England.  Though New England didn't handle the Giant;s line well, and Brady is more statuesque...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 07, 2012, 08:07:19 am
Romo played exceptionally well no question, but what really helped the Cowboys in that game against the Giants was they were able to run the ball. Their RB Murray wound up with well over 100 yards and a couple other guys contributed on the ground as well.  As I recall, that was not the case for the Bears when we played the Giants in preseason  (only counting the 1st half which was 1s on 1s). 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 07, 2012, 08:25:47 am
First of all, you can't compare a team's performance in a PS game against another team's performance in a real NFL game.

But if you do, did you see Giants shut down the Cowboys running game in the first half just as they shut down the Bears running game in the first half. 

Bears O-line may struggle Sunday...and they may struggle after that but eventually they should be able to get it together barring injury.  You know, kind of like during that 5 game winning streak last year when no one was whining about our O-line. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 07, 2012, 08:28:01 am
The Bears should be able to make hay on the ground against the Colts' undersized D, and Cutler should have a great day against the Colts undersized and just generally not-very-good secondary.

Of course that's on paper.

Keep in mind the Colts have switched to a 3-4 defense (with Freeney playing OLB), and 3-4 schemes have really shut down the Bears offense the past couple of years.  I'm hoping that was just Martz' inability to figure it out and/or unwillingness to adapt as opposed to problems with our personnel.  I know when Cutler played in Denver he faced 3-4 defenses pretty regularly and didn't seem to have much problem so I'm optimistic our problems of the past couple years were more on the scheme than the players.

What it does mean though is that on passing downs Freeney will be getting a running start against Webb, in space, from a 2-point stance.  That concerns me a great deal. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 07, 2012, 09:17:37 am
Anyone here been to that stadium in Dallas? We were there on vacation this summer and went by there....that stadium is freaking huge!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 07, 2012, 09:37:34 am
What it does mean though is that on passing downs Freeney will be getting a running start against Webb, in space, from a 2-point stance.  That concerns me a great deal. 

I think Webb could struggle against Freeney if he started out in a 1, 2, 3, or 4 point stance.

Webb had his poor games against 4-3 ends:  Jared Allen and  the RE from Seattle come to mind.  I just don't recall how he did against the 3-4 guys last year.

If a 2 point stance was such an advantage, you'd see 4-3 DEs standing up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 07, 2012, 09:46:15 am

Anyone here been to that stadium in Dallas? We were there on vacation this summer and went by there....that stadium is freaking huge!!!


Yep, and expensive particularly when the Cowboys play.  The thing you notice on the inside are the screens hanging over the field.  Most just watch the game on the screen - even if they have decent seats.

I was looking at the ticket prices last night for the Bears MNF game on 10/1 - found some near the goal on the deck below the nose bleed....$150.  And I think parking is about $50.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on September 07, 2012, 10:00:03 am
I have a hard time ponying up for tickets when I can sit in front of my big screen TV in my comfortable chair. With that said, I did just buy tickets for the game in Jacksonville. $80 for nosebleed but I just couldn't justify the $150 per for better seats. Not as comfortable as being at home but should be fun anyway.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 07, 2012, 10:02:10 am
I think the 3pt stance helps the DL try to get under the OL. Low man wins a lot of those battles.
Freeney could likely start on his back and get up and still get by Webb fast enough to cause Cutler grief.
It will be interesting to see how they fare after switching from the cover 2.

do they have a big NT to plug the middle? The best way to keep Freeney from hitting Cutler might be to hand the ball to Forte.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 07, 2012, 10:23:39 am
First of all, you can't compare a team's performance in a PS game against another team's performance in a real NFL game.

But if you do, did you see Giants shut down the Cowboys running game in the first half just as they shut down the Bears running game in the first half. 

Bears O-line may struggle Sunday...and they may struggle after that but eventually they should be able to get it together barring injury.  You know, kind of like during that 5 game winning streak last year when no one was whining about our O-line. 

You are right about a preseason game. And with the new labor agreement on practices there is very little accomplished during training camp. So it will take some time for the OLine to get in some kind of rythm, provided thats even possible. However, you are still way too optimistic on the progress of the OLine. My problem is that the 2nd game is against the Pack and a failure to protect Cutler could result in the loss of Cutler for the season. Matthews is way too good at getting to the QB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 07, 2012, 10:27:44 am
Our OL has struggled mightily against the Pack the last couple of years no question.  But by far the bigger problem (literally) were their big CBs who were mugging our undersized WRs game in and game out.  In the case of Woodson in particular, with no threat of penalty by the officials whatsoever.

Now that we have some bigger bodies in the WR corps that can give contact as good as they get, I think Cutler will find it easier going in the pass game.  It still won't be easy to get yards in the air against the Pack, but it will at least be do-able.

I also believe Raji has been struggling with an injury of some sort and if he's less than 100% we might be able to get Forte untracked between the tackles some as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on September 07, 2012, 02:37:28 pm
Murray only got over 100 yards due to a fluke long run, and he gained some yards late when the Giants were gamb-ling on defense...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 07, 2012, 10:15:54 pm

 CHICAGO MOTHER FUUUCKING BEARS ... A PASSING TEAM FIRST?

 It looks that way.

 Look at the two teams that got to the SUPERBOWL last season ...

 where did they rank at rushing?

 Let us pause ... thats what worked last season ... and it did work.

 RB was an afterthought as those teams realized they didnt have a RB threat.

 They worked their way around it ... and got to where they needed to get to.

 HOWEVER ... we now have a WR Corp that on paper is on a par with the NFL.

 AND ... we have a RB threat that is legitimate.

 Somthing they didnt have. Shouldnt this make us better?

 REMEMBER : They got there with T.E.'s and WR's.

 We have WR's ,TE's, ... AND RB's.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 08, 2012, 06:51:31 am
Danny Mac says the Bears go 9-7. I thought the ending was humorous and chuckled. Hope you get a chuckle too.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-0908-mcneil-bears-chicago--20120908,0,4906992.column
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 08, 2012, 08:54:06 am
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/videos/Keys-to-the-game-Bears-Colts/0c502b59-7ef1-4135-b3bd-15c8fd352be9#/http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/videos/Game_Preview_BearsColts/fb0323ec-d306-40a8-bc62-5236d2f13e3d

I read they have issued Rodriguez as a FB and changed his jersey number.  I have a feeling they are going to have a few plays put in for him.  If not this week then next.

He isn't like Klutts who would rumble for a few yards after a catching a ball out of the backfield.  This guy is an athlete and will make the tough catch and then make some plays getting downfield.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 08, 2012, 08:57:38 am
The problem with Rodriguez is he cant block. If you have a fullback who cant block you are worthless
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 08, 2012, 09:14:33 am
I doubt they ask him to do much more then chip on his way out of the backfield.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 08, 2012, 01:40:22 pm
He didnt even do that during PS games....SO?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 08, 2012, 01:43:39 pm
And yeah I know its preseason and things done in PS dont count, so I will assume he is the best blocker we have ever seen without a doubt. I mean seeing is believing man.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 08, 2012, 02:26:12 pm
Bears have dumped Booker and Trahan and promoted Allen from the PS.

That leaves them 1 open roster spot. Wonder if Price may be coming back?

The other thing is, Emery is one cold hard mutha to do that the day before the first game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 08, 2012, 02:56:30 pm
They need an open spot for Collins after his week 1 suspension.  Unless they are thinking that will be Quiglys spot. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 08, 2012, 04:39:22 pm
Amazing to read that Podlesh is going to be active
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 08, 2012, 04:44:34 pm
Bears have dumped Booker and Trahan and promoted Allen from the PS.

That leaves them 1 open roster spot. Wonder if Price may be coming back?


I'd love to see Price back - but that would give them 7 DTs next week and I'm not sure what the salary/cap implications are for bringing somebody back that you cut and are already paying.

Bears have appear to have no patience with nursing injured/out of shape players back into the lineup.  There is the possibility that Booker received the special IR designation where he could return or his concussion was more serious than we all thought.  I think he had one last season with the Vikings.  Too bad...I really liked his speed both out of the backfield and especially on kick returns.

They say they're promoting Allen from the PS - but the Trib mentioned Kahlil Bell is still available.  I'd prefer Bell.

The other thing is, Emery is one cold hard mutha to do that the day before the first game.

Scratching my head on this one.  The only reason I can come up with was that Podlash is going to be out for week 2 (which is next Thursday) and they need a roster spot for Quigley as well as for Nate Collins coming off the suspended list.   And financially, I think if Trahan is on the roster week 1 and is cut later the team has to pay him his entire salary.

So maybe Emery is cold and che...thrifty.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 08, 2012, 04:46:31 pm
OUCH!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 08, 2012, 05:54:59 pm
kffl retracted the cutting of Booker, he's on IR.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 08, 2012, 06:45:17 pm
Trib is saying Booker placed on IR because of a concussion in the Cleveland PS game is why Allen was activated and Trahan's cutting is probably for Collins on Monday
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 08, 2012, 11:48:46 pm
Still doesn't make sense (cutting Trahan) especially now that Podlesh is probable - why not just cut Quigley Monday and pickup Collins?  Or are they going to carry 2 punters until they are absolutely sure Podlesh is OK?

My take is the Bears are going to sign a FA veteran Monday...maybe an O-lineman or maybe a safety.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 09, 2012, 01:31:06 am
Still doesn't make sense (cutting Trahan) especially now that Podlesh is probable - why not just cut Quigley Monday and pickup Collins?  Or are they going to carry 2 punters until they are absolutely sure Podlesh is OK?

My take is the Bears are going to sign a FA veteran Monday...maybe an O-lineman or maybe a safety.

That would be interesting as all hell going after the first game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ATUMRE75 on September 09, 2012, 07:13:27 am
The moment of truth is less than five hours away. My prediction Bears 30 and Colts 10.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on September 09, 2012, 11:43:02 am
All the talk about the offense, I think our season hinges on our D, or lack there of. Is our D better than last season? I think not, especially with Urlacher on his last leg. Is Peppers going to make it through the entire season? I doubt it. We'll win some games, and at times look good doing it. Without a top rated D we'll have a tough time challenging Green Bay for the Division..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 09, 2012, 02:48:48 pm
Our D is gonna have to be a lot better in 4 days than it was today vs. the Colts.  That's for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ATUMRE75 on September 09, 2012, 05:07:11 pm
We will be ok. I think they played quite well. I think we have caught up with the Packers. See you thursday night.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 09, 2012, 07:52:02 pm
The DT Collins will be off his suspension so maybe he'll give the DL the spark they need.

Luck had way too much time and room to run... Especially up the middle.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 09, 2012, 08:12:28 pm
Melton looked good, Paea flashed.  Add Collins I think we will be just fine in the middle...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 09, 2012, 08:26:04 pm
Melton had a nice sack but I also saw him going backwards a lot. Cutback runs up the middle gashed us cause our DTs cant hold the point and get off blocks.

He needs to get back up to the heavier weight where he played last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 09, 2012, 08:53:31 pm

Melton is the same size he was last year - about 295lbs.  He's a penetrator and you're right that he really doesn't hold his ground real well. 

That's Lovie's D.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 09, 2012, 08:55:02 pm
Weird... Two weeks ago chicagobears.com listed Melton at 265. Thats about what he looked like today. But yeah now they have him at 295.

Irregardless... We were very soft up the middle on D today, vs both run and pass.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 09, 2012, 08:58:58 pm

put on your reading glasses:

69    Melton, Henry    DE    6-3    295   25   4    Texas

(from chicagobears.com)

He was 260 when they drafted him as an end and decided to beef him up after red-shirting him.  I remember in a PS game his rookie year where he returned a kickoff...not as an up blocker but as the kick returner!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 09, 2012, 09:04:34 pm
Weird thing about this D is, for as bad as they looked for much of the game, they still collected 4 turnovers.

It was just kinda frustrating to see that Luck really only had two receiving weapons -- Wayne and Fleener -- and yet we couldn't take them out of the equation. IIRC those two got about 200 yds combined on us. When we face QBs with more experience and more weapons, that could be a problem.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 09, 2012, 09:38:52 pm
I'm getting a bit concerned that Cut seems to first target Marshall, and then the others. Sometimes even forcing it in to Marshall when he's clearly not open. Teams will start to notice this, too, and we're gonna see TO's increase.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 09, 2012, 09:55:29 pm
I think that is one of those things that will correct itself.  They will look at film and see so and so was open you did not need to force it.  Opponents will see Marshall is the main target and double him up. 

This will leave more people open and so on and so forth.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 09, 2012, 11:27:26 pm
The moment of truth is less than five hours away. My prediction Bears 30 and Colts 10.

 Add ten points to each score and you are correct sir!  :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 10, 2012, 07:06:49 am
I'm getting a bit concerned that Cut seems to first target Marshall, and then the others. Sometimes even forcing it in to Marshall when he's clearly not open. Teams will start to notice this, too, and we're gonna see TO's increase.

I would concur with what Pekin responded.  I look at it this way.  The Bears (and Packers) had two game plans to prepare for the first week of the season.  The Bears will watch tape of the 49er game, and the Pack will watch film of the Colts game.  Were we sending a message to the Pack that Marshall is the target?  Yes.  Will that open up the rest of our targets?  Absolutely.

I see some truths in the first game.  Forte may not like it, but if we get the ball down to the 5 yard line, Bush is coming in.  Marshall will be our top target as a receiver.  How many times did Earl Bennett draw the top CB in the last few years as we was Cutler's top target?  At least a few.  How many times will he now be covered as our top target?  Likely none.  Bennett should see more opportunities as the season progresses.  As will Jeffrey.

Do you think Evan Rodriguez will just be a blocker in the Packer game?  I don't, I bet that will be one of the wrinkes that we didn't show this week.  This offense has a lot of potential and we just scratched the surface yesterday.  This offense will allow our defense to take a few more gambles than in year's past.

The offensive line is the component that has the potential to stop our team, but after the first few series they seemed to settle down.  Of course losing Freeney had a bit to do with that.  But what team doesn't deal with injuries - see Urlacher and Peanut.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 10, 2012, 07:50:51 am
I also wonder if those maddeningly ineffective gadget plays to Hester were actually being run more with future games in mind than the current game.  I.e., let the Packers (and other teams down the road) know that plays like this may be coming...  but then in the future it may be more with Hester as the decoy vs. actually getting the ball.

That's the only reason I can think of for continuing to force the action to Hester when Jeffery is clearly already the 2nd best WR on our roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 10, 2012, 08:16:13 am
"This offense will allow our defense to take a few more ****s than in year's past." 

So apparently gam ble is blocked, lol...   ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 10, 2012, 09:49:23 am
Do you think Evan Rodriguez will just be a blocker in the Packer game?  I don't, I bet that will be one of the wrinkes that we didn't show this week.  This offense has a lot of potential and we just scratched the surface yesterday.

I agree and I'd bet that we see Rodriguez and the forgotten man Kellen Davis targetted in the red zone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 10, 2012, 09:58:05 am
And can Hester actually make the fair catch, instead of letting it go, and then the ball gets downed inside the 5?

Apart from that, when was the last time you saw that much offense from a Bears team?  I cant even remember.  And that long TD to Jeffery was a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 10, 2012, 10:47:55 am

Hester was supposed to be working on running up an making fair catches in training camp.  Though I can't really blame him for not catching those 2 identical punts - I can't recall a punt returner making a FC that close to the goal line.  That Colt player just made a great play...twice.

Martz for all his 7 step drops hardly ever called for the bomb - or maybe he did and Cutler rarely threw it.  But I doubt that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 10, 2012, 10:55:03 am
Our D deserves some blame for the bad field position our offense had early on.

When you give up yardage in bunches, even if the other team doesn't score it's easy for them to pin you deep on a punt. Then your offense is starting inside your own 10 and there is absolutely no margin for error back there.

That's where a bend-but-don't-break D can bite you.  You can have good field position and have it turn to crap in just a few plays. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on September 10, 2012, 11:31:20 am
I agree with Dallas on the punts. If Hester had made a fair catch at the 10 we all would be saying WTF. Those were just good plays by the Indy special teams...it happens, give them credit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 10, 2012, 12:22:41 pm
Whoever predicted an OL add this week...  props, man.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/10/bears-shuffle-their-roster-after-opening-win/

Personally I thought that spot would go to Brian Price but it looks like we're not picking him back up anytime soon.

I really like how Emery isn't letting up on churning the roster even now into the regular season.  The message is clear by now:  if you're on the bottom half of the Bears roster you had better be bringing it every practice and any in-game reps you get cause Emery is not afraid to pull the trapdoor if there's guys on the street he thinks are better than who he's got now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 10, 2012, 12:38:50 pm
The defense played "bend but don't break" style yesterday.  I agree that the pass rush needs major improvement too.

Offensively we did start out slow but picked it up in the second qtr.   They should've put the Colts away when the KR from Indy fumbled deep in their own territory.  They did get points but then went conservative.  After the Colts scored to make it closer is when Tice got aggressive again.   Like I said earlier if Knox was healthy this season we would be too scary at WR!

I think we have a better QB and WR's than the 29ers and should be able to put up points Thursday night against the packed.  The Bears defense is what worries me more.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 10, 2012, 12:45:53 pm
I see a high scoring game.  Even though recent history tells me to pick against the Bears I'm gonna be optimistic and say we pull this one out Thursday night. send the Pack to 0-2 and get a major "plus" in the book on any potential tiebreaker scenario down the road.

37-35 Bears on a late Robbie Gould FG.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 10, 2012, 12:48:15 pm
Bears had to pickup somebody especially after Podlesh appeared to be OK - and they only had 52 yesterday.

Now with the signing of Scott - does that mean we have a new swing tackle?

Which means Chris Williams can go back to guard???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 10, 2012, 12:53:52 pm
Which means Chris Williams can go back to guard???

Interesting scenario...  at the minimum it probably means James Brown won't be getting promoted from the PS anytime soon.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 10, 2012, 02:13:45 pm
at the minimum it probably means James Brown won't be getting promoted from the PS anytime soon.

...unless another team wants to sign him.

Most likely teams needing O-lineman now want proven vets and not untested FA rooks...but you never know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 11, 2012, 12:27:12 am
"This offense will allow our defense to take a few more ****s than in year's past." 

So apparently gam ble is blocked, lol...   ;D

 What can you do ? It's the way the board works.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 11, 2012, 04:34:16 pm
Good to see the Bears learning lessons...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/11/after-raiders-debacle-bears-give-extra-work-to-backup-long-snapper/

These are the behind-the-scenes things that put certain teams over the top.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 11, 2012, 09:01:12 pm
And then maybe they have some lessons yet to learn.

Apparently Tillmans injury happened on a Special Teams play.  WTF a Pro Bowl defensive starter is doing playing teams is beyond me. A guy named Jason Sehorn comes to mind.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 12, 2012, 06:45:51 am
What, Tillnut hasn't done enough for the team to get off freakin ST duty??? How STUPID is that? Like we have stellar depth at the position to begin with. Sometimes the stupidity of this team is mind boggling....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 12, 2012, 07:51:29 am

Most the starting DBs play on a special team or two - Tillman has been on punt returns for years.  Most special teams require speedy guys - there's just not enough on a 45 man squad to not include a few starters here and there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 12, 2012, 08:03:49 am
Yeah - put all the backups on ST - who cares about field position?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 12, 2012, 10:15:28 am
That's why we got ST pro bowl studs, so Tillnut doesn't have to play there. Can't remember the last time I heard Tillman get a tackle on ST. Mainly it's the guys we went out and got that do ST that make the plays. We don't need Tillman on ST play. Unless we like getting our butts handed to us because he got hurt doing ST duty when there were other viable options available, and there are plenty.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 12, 2012, 10:31:34 am
Pull up Jason Sehorn on Wikipedia.  He was a stud CB for the Giants and one of the fastest players in the league at the time.  He tore up his leg on a ST play and was never the same after that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 12, 2012, 10:34:12 am
I remember Sehorn. Excellent player. Prime example of how NOT to handle a stud on your team that is a key part of your defense....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 12, 2012, 10:34:38 am
How many ST studs do we have - 11?  Nope - maybe a bit more than half that number.  Some of the starters have to play a special team or two.  There are only 45 guys dressed and some of those guys are useless on some STs....both QBs, Forte, Marshall, punter, kicker, long snapper, all offensive lineman... 

I'd bet if Tillman is good to go tomorrow he's back on punt return.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 12, 2012, 10:36:25 am
2nd and 3rd string guys...and the ST studs....those are the ones who should be on ST duty....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 12, 2012, 10:45:07 am
Just off a roster list, not sure if up to date, but ya got Weems, Booker, Bennett, Allen, Sanzenbacher, Costanzo, Moore, Hayes, Hayden, McManis, Walters, Hardin, Jones, Ozougwo, Thomas.....that right there is 14 not mentioning the punter or kicker. There are better options than allowing a key player on D being on there and getting hurt.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 12, 2012, 11:14:29 am
Same reason I didn't want Wootten playing teams.  At least a couple of his injuries came on special teams IIRC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 12, 2012, 11:16:34 am
Peppers and Urlachers play special teams as well.  They are in on defense for extra points and FG's.  No one complains when Peppers blocks a FG.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 12, 2012, 11:21:23 am
I don't mind having our tall guys on FG blocking teams.

It's the kickoff and punt cover/return teams that are the meat grinders that I'd prefer our star position players don't take part in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 12, 2012, 11:22:52 am
Exactly, Yapp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 12, 2012, 01:50:40 pm
Just off a roster list, not sure if up to date, but ya got Weems, Booker, Bennett, Allen, Sanzenbacher, Costanzo, Moore, Hayes, Hayden, McManis, Walters, Hardin, Jones, Ozougwo, Thomas.....that right there is 14 not mentioning the punter or kicker. There are better options than allowing a key player on D being on there and getting hurt.....

Booker and Hardin are IRd and Sanzenbacher and Ozogwo didn't dress.   I'd say there are about 12 or 13 guys that don't start and could possibly play on punt returns.

There was an article today in the Trib where coach Toub gave a different reason:

Curious outsiders wondered why Bears starting cornerback Charles Tillman was on the punt-return unit when he got kicked in the shin Sunday. Special teams coordinator Dave Toub said it was a no-brainer.

"We have approximately seven starters that play at least one phase: punt, punt return, kickoff, kickoff return,'' Toub said. "We've got to have him on the field because he's the best guy that we've got. He can shut down a gunner single-handedly. There are not many guys that can do that.''
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: panthermark on September 12, 2012, 02:20:37 pm
Yeah....you don't see a lot of injuries on FG/PAT teams becasue there are no "high speed" collisions.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 12, 2012, 09:59:07 pm
 Anyone seen our 6th and 7th round draft picks from 2012 ?

 Oh ... nevermind.

 You find ST in those rounds.

 Yes I know Frey is on the practice squad.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 13, 2012, 11:24:04 pm
To Emery, Tice and whoever the f*ck is supposed to be coaching our OL:

These guys are Bad.  Really really BAD. Clay Matthews single handedly destroyed this entire unit tonight.

Get this fixed ASAP, or give way to guys who can.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 13, 2012, 11:45:40 pm
No love for Tice tonight?  :)

I don't blame ya.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 14, 2012, 02:39:25 am
Not sure I could be more frustrated with this freaking team than I am presently. Biggest problem has been, is, and probably will be till Lovie is ditched the offensive line. No one apparently has any sense to do something to improve that consistently underperforming group. They do good against inferior teams and fold like a cheap tent with the quality ones. It's getting REAL REAL REAL REEEEEEAL old to see time and time and time again. Think we need to do a 'mailing' campaign and send pictures of good offensive linemen to Halas. Anyone have a heavy 'clue stick' we can beat them over the fricking head with? MAN...it's frustrating!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on September 14, 2012, 07:42:28 am
I think the D played well enough for a win (they gave up 16 points- the ST **** up is another thing entirely).....

The O of course was putrid. Lovie (and meathead) were outcoached. Hell, even Toub was made to look foolish. McCarthy owns Lovie & Co now.....

Not the end of the season, but a lot to get fixed in 11 days.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 14, 2012, 07:50:02 am
I agree with Yapper. Emery needs to find some warm bodies somewhere. Webb should be bagging groceries somewhere at least till Dallas comes in here to defend him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 14, 2012, 08:10:35 am
Now they're saying Forte may have a high ankle sprain.

And Cutler already has 5 INTs on the season.

Things are going south for this offense in a hurry.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 14, 2012, 08:49:10 am
Time for James Brown anybody?Or Scott? Or somebody. This mess cant continue
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 14, 2012, 09:45:44 am
Webb should be bagging groceries somewhere at least till Dallas comes in here to defend him.

The only guy that might be better at LT on the team is Carimi and we've talked about that since draft day 2011.

I haven't seen Jonathon Scott play but I wouldn't doubt that the Bears take a long look a him in practice.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest118 on September 14, 2012, 09:54:46 am
I beleive we have to really question this entire coaching staff and even the GM for anyone believing Jamarcus Webb has any reason to be on an NFL football field at left tackle. Left tackle has been a HUGE problem for Lovie Smith for YEARS and nothing gets done. And Mike

Webb's foot work is atrocious!!! There are high school left tackles with better foot work.

The fact that the coaches are starting Webb is amazing........probably the worst starting left tackle in the league and a HUGE reason they lost.

Can Chris Williams play any better???????????????

I agree - put Carimi over there.

+ Spencer is just about as bad.....

We quite clearly have the WORST left side of the offensive line in the entire NFL!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 14, 2012, 09:58:45 am

Have to give credit to Matthews - he contorts his body like no pass rusher I have ever seen.  I think he'll make life miserable for about every LT he will face this season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 14, 2012, 11:25:57 am
The only guy that might be better at LT on the team is Carimi and we've talked about that since draft day 2011.

But as I've continually said moving the sieve from the left side to the right side by moving Carimi to the left side doesnt necessarily solve the problem, only shifts it. Maybe Webb actually can pass block on the right side. Maybe he doesnt have to be very mobile on the RT side. But the knock on Carimi coming out of Wisconsin was he wasnt mobile enough to man the LT position at the next level, hence he was moved to the RT side. With that knee of his that cost him 14 games its my guess that RT is where he belongs. I just dont see Carimi as the long term solution on the LT side.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 14, 2012, 11:28:43 am
The question is who is worse at LT Carimi or Webb, or maybe Scott.  I think we need to get our least sucky LT out there, and hope we at least have someone we can plug in at RT. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest118 on September 14, 2012, 11:51:55 am
Why we aren't they double teaming Mathews???? CRAZY!!! I saw Mathews MANY times one on one with Webb....not pretty. Shear stupidity.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest118 on September 14, 2012, 11:55:59 am
I agree....Carimi isn't a LT, but we have no one else.

Why isn't Chris Williams starting somewhere??? is he that bad????

I'd put Williams at LT.

What Spencer???? he was just as bad as Webb.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 14, 2012, 12:17:58 pm

Why isn't Chris Williams starting somewhere??? is he that bad????


In a word HELL YES.   He is slow and has short arms....but I wouldn't mind seeing him at guard.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 14, 2012, 12:39:59 pm
I agree, Chris Williams did good at LG last year, lets get him back there. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 14, 2012, 12:43:46 pm
Just what we need:

As if the Bears don’t suddenly have enough problems, they now have to fret about when and if the players will rise up against their petulant, James Dean-wannabe quarterback, Jay Cutler.
 
Last night’s sideline incident with left tackle J’Marcus Webb, which featured Cutler swearing at and bumping the much bigger Webb, has created concerns within the organization that the players could eventually turn on Cutler, for good.  That’s what a source with direct knowledge of the situation tells PFT.
 
It’s not the first time a quarterback has had relationship issues in the locker room.  We’ve heard for years that Ben Roethlisberger had been (and still may be) persona non grata in Pittsburgh.  But the Bears are getting closer to the breaking point with Cutler, and the worry in the organization is that if it keeps up, something could go down
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 14, 2012, 12:57:05 pm
something could go down

Whats that supposed to mean? Trade Cutler? So whoever ends up QBing has to suck up to the trash on the OLine? Good Grief! I cant envision trading an all pro QB for the sake of the worst OLine in the league, but somehow that makes very little sense to me. And what would you get in return for Cutler? Oh maybe a couple of third round picks. Sounds like a giveaway to me. Cutler has more talent than any QB the Bears have had since McMahon and maybe even as far back as Wade. I just think with a better line Cutler would be able to settle down and be who he is supposed to be
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 14, 2012, 01:09:37 pm
Ya know what....I almost have to side with Cut on this. Here is what he said post game:

  "I care about this,'' Cutler said. "This isn't just a hobby. I'm not doing this for my health. I'm trying to win football games. When we're not doing the little things or things the right way consistently, I'm going to say something. If they want a quarterback that doesn't care, they can get someone else.''

I have to back Cutler on this. I don't care for his arrogant attitude, but when he tells the truth I'll back him. And we ALL know the truth is this team hasn't done a fricking thing to improve this offensive line except bring in Spencer and a bunch of 7th string detritus to try to make into a NFL line. If WE'RE annoyed to death and majorly frustrated over it, imagine the guy who has to PLAY behind a line like that and has taken a beating physically for it! How can ANYONE judge the guy for saying/doing what he did???

That being said, to be a leader you also have to accept responsibility for your OWN actions and performance. His was below par last night. Now that could be the result of having to constantly worry about the guys in front of him protecting him and getting constant pressure because of it. I don't know. I DO know they could have done more to protect him, roll outs anyone? More running the ball? It was as if Martz were back directing the offense the way Tice was calling plays. They definately needed to run more.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 14, 2012, 01:28:12 pm
As if the Bears don’t suddenly have enough problems, they now have to fret about when and if the players will rise up against their petulant, James Dean-wannabe quarterback, Jay Cutler.
 


This is not a problem - just media hype.  Maybe the Bears should throw a party afterward and hand out participation trophies to all the players.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 14, 2012, 01:38:05 pm
If anything this makes me want to play for Cutler even more.  Its called passion for the game, something that some on the OL dont appear to have.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 14, 2012, 02:04:50 pm
Let's put it this way.....IF this were done by the 85' Bears or thereabouts, chairs and even tables would be going through walls. They would NEVER have accepted play like what we saw last night!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 14, 2012, 02:10:20 pm
I have zero confidence in Lovie. I believe his time here is done and we need someone with some passion, some fire under their butts to get this club righted and headed in the right direction. Someone who sits in contemplative silence like a monk is in direct opposition to what we need right now.....save that for church, show some (http://www.latma.co.il/image/large/6117-4.jpg) as head coach of this Bears!!!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 14, 2012, 02:10:51 pm
I wanna know - who was without fault last night?  (I think its a much shorter list than the one who were).

Coaches and players will just have to learn from this and move on.  We kind of went through this at the beginning last year...

Any news on Forte from you locals?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 14, 2012, 04:55:11 pm
Forte has a high ankle sprain.  Bears are looking to pick up a RB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on September 14, 2012, 05:48:13 pm
Tillman and Jennings get a pass from me.  They both had a great game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on September 14, 2012, 06:04:27 pm
Agree about Jennings.. And I agree about Cutler...

I want a better head coach, I'll take a J Harbaugh... I remember when I said I wanted Coughlin, couple a guys here bitched "players won't play for him" LOL!!! Whatcha think now?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 14, 2012, 06:05:18 pm
I wouldnt mind Cowher as head coach. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on September 14, 2012, 06:07:47 pm
I worry he's been out of football too long. That's who I said the last couple a years...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 14, 2012, 06:24:34 pm
Rodgers chewed out Jones fo another dumb play.  He deserved it.  Concentrate.

Cutler chewed out Williams for incompetence.  Big difference,  I think Webb was trying his best and didin't deserve that in front of a national audience.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 14, 2012, 06:42:41 pm
Webb was trying his best?  He just stood there while Mathews ran past him and sacked Cutler.  He barely even tryed to block him.  We have seen him do the same over and over again.  He can block anyone when he is focused.  The problem is he loses focus easily.

Webb has plenty of physical ability.  His problem is what is in between his ears.  Cutler told him to get his head in the game.  I am glad he reamed him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 15, 2012, 05:54:28 am

 WHOEVER is at LT ... they better have a TE there also.

 Thats just the way this thing is working out when we took a DE in the first round of the draft.

 Where one was not needed.

 Instead of a dedicated LT.

 Go fuuuckin figure this shiiit out ... we knew what the fuuuck was needed.

 I dont know if I blame this so much on Emery ... he just got into town and words were wispered.

 He took the advice of a defensive oriented HC ... and tried to fit in.

 I'm sure he is not going to do that in next years draft.

 He did get us Marshall and Jeffry.

 The foundation has been laid ...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 15, 2012, 06:16:03 am
Funny that should be mentioned, I thought about what if Jim Harbaugh for the Bears?  He took a terrible floundering team and turned them around pretty quick.  Looking forward to seeing Sunday night.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on September 15, 2012, 11:08:23 am
Wow.  First from the media was that Cutler didn't care on the sidelines.  He didn't show enough emotion for the game.  He just sat there and didn't interact enough with his team mates.

Now...  Cutler is an out of control dick to his team mates for yelling at them for sucking major ass on national TV.

The guy can't win I guess.  If it were me I would have punched webb in the **** nose.  Especially after he let Matthews go by him and take a shot at his knees.  Webb deserved every **** embarassing verb and noun Cutler could throw at him on TV.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on September 15, 2012, 11:09:27 am
Hell I fault the whole team for not getting in Webb's ass for his shitty ass play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on September 15, 2012, 11:31:28 am
Anyone else see this?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bradshaw-on-cutler-not-a-person-i-really-want-to-meet-20120914,0,53913.story

After you read the article, that really wasn't the intent of Bradshaw's comment..

The biggest problem I see for management in regards to Cutler is PROTECTIVE HIS A$$!!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 15, 2012, 11:56:33 am
I'll stand by Cutler on this one. Bradshaw is old school. The underlying thing is Bradshaw didnt have to put up with incompetent linemen in front of him. If there was a bad play or two in a game it was corrected in practice. Never did Bradshaw have to put up with the incompetence that Cutler has endured since he was traded here. Its been frickin years that Cutler has had to put up with the worst line in the NFL. How much does a guy have to take before he has had enough? Like with me I take a lot before the volcano erupts. I am sure Cutler has too. Sorry Bradshaw but enough is enough. Management has had more than enough time to fix this problem and have done zippo, nada, nothing, zero.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 15, 2012, 07:12:09 pm
Wow.  First from the media was that Cutler didn't care on the sidelines.  He didn't show enough emotion for the game.  He just sat there and didn't interact enough with his team mates.

Now...  Cutler is an out of control dick to his team mates for yelling at them for sucking major ass on national TV.

The guy can't win I guess.  If it were me I would have punched webb in the ****ing nose.  Especially after he let Matthews go by him and take a shot at his knees.  Webb deserved every ****ing embarassing verb and noun Cutler could throw at him on TV.

Criticism of Webb in the strongest terms is OK, but not on the nationally televised game.  That belongs in the locker room.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 15, 2012, 07:17:54 pm
pack you have to assume that had already taken place. didn't work, time for stronger measures.  btw bear resigns bell to a one year. Cutler 100%. screw ancient I can't remember what day it is and ogun.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ATUMRE75 on September 15, 2012, 08:03:12 pm
Criticism of Webb in the strongest terms is OK, but not on the nationally televised game.  That belongs in the locker room.

Well it wasn't all Webb's fault. Jay Cutler held the ball for too long on a few downs. Brandon Marshall dropping wide open touchdown pass didn't help either. He didn't say anything bad to Marshall for dropping that pass. Picking on young players, what a jerk!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 15, 2012, 08:12:39 pm
pack you have to assume that had already taken place. didn't work, time for stronger measures.  btw bear resigns bell to a one year. Cutler 100%. screw ancient I can't remember what day it is and ogun.

I'll defer to your judgment here.  You know the situation better than I, 46.  It was a frustrating night for the Bears as it was for GB against the 49'ers.  Just one game, though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 15, 2012, 08:14:17 pm
The play that he yelled at Webb was right at the beginning of the game.  Webb just stood there and blocked nobody as Mathews ran right past him and plastered Cutler.  Webb had his head up his azz like he does several plays a game.  Cutler was 100% correct in reaming him.

However Webb will never be any good.  He has all the physical tools but not the attitude or brain power.  He is not mean enough to play football and he is not very bright.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on September 15, 2012, 09:47:00 pm
Spaeth should be right next to WEbb on every play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 15, 2012, 10:09:35 pm
Dave I agree 100%.  That game was lost due to the offensive game plan.  I am beginning to think Martz was a Lovie scape goat.  We get off the bus running my azz!

Lovie has thrown one offensive coach after another under the bus.  He is the Head Coach and it is time for him to take the blame.  Get it fixed or go somewhere else. 

I am hoping this was our coaches making one game plan for two games and trying to make it work.  Hopefully they will be running the ball a ton from here on out.  I am not saying don't throw the ball or don't go deep.  I am saying take what the defense is giving you.  This is what they have preached the entire off season.  Yet game two they threw when it was obvious they should have been running the ball.

   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 15, 2012, 10:11:48 pm
Give Webb some help.  He can't be on an island he can't do it.

Running the ball helps him.  Having a TE next to him helps.  The TE can chip then go out for a pass.  So can Rodriguez on passing downs.

The game plan against Green Bay was flawed and they did not adapt to the game situation fast enough.  By the time they did they were so far down they had to pass.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 15, 2012, 10:19:05 pm
I dont know, at the start of the second half they marched down the field.  Marshall dropping that TD seemed to really mess them up.  They were running fairly well. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 15, 2012, 11:25:17 pm

 Next up :

 Cleavland-Los Angeles-St. Louis

 RAMS
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on September 16, 2012, 08:41:55 am
One thing's for certain, winning cures everything, as losing puts everything under a microscope. I feel like the fans are behind Cutler at this point, hopefully we start winning, or this season will get ugly in a hurry..

I agree about the offensive game planning, if I didn't know better, I would've said Martz was up in the box calling the plays..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 16, 2012, 10:13:15 am
Give Webb some help.  He can't be on an island he can't do it.

Running the ball helps him.  Having a TE next to him helps.  The TE can chip then go out for a pass.  So can Rodriguez on passing downs.

The game plan against Green Bay was flawed and they did not adapt to the game situation fast enough.  By the time they did they were so far down they had to pass.

You cant keep babysitting the guy forever. He has to be able to stand on his own two feet. Occasional help such as a RB left to block in the backfield OK, but using a TE on both sides just to block takes WRs out of the receiving equation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 16, 2012, 03:03:40 pm
Did Lovie let up on the running game because of Forte's injury?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 16, 2012, 03:10:25 pm
The Bears did not run the ball at the beginning of the game.  Forte was not injured then.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on September 16, 2012, 04:46:15 pm
We have Bush
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 16, 2012, 07:41:21 pm
I agre that Lovie (or OC) dropped the running game way too soon.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 16, 2012, 07:43:42 pm
My **** is we did not establicsh the running game right out of the gate.   They used the exact same game plan as they did against the Colts on offense.  MISTAKE!

First play against the Colts was a PA pass and Cutler got sacked.  Guess what the exact same first play was against the Packers and the result?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 16, 2012, 09:56:29 pm
 Hopefully we get Kahlil Bell back at RB.

 Between him and Bush ...

 Marshall caught 2 passes

 Bennett caught 2 passes

 Jeffry caught one pass ... THE WHOLE game for all of them.

 They should have caught that many in one series.  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 17, 2012, 01:47:47 am
Fans are still with Cut but that could turn quick if he keeps blowing it and tossing balls up to anyone. My feeling is we'll split with GB, each winning at home. The next few games will set the tempo for the remainder. Will we come out fighting and light the Hams up or blow chunks and embarrass Beardom again?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 17, 2012, 06:19:23 am
Looking ahead to the Rams, we have our hands full.  I watched most of the game and they will not be an easy out like years past.

That said, they lost 2 left tackles during the game with injuries and we on their 3 tackle through the 4th quarter.  The way Marinelli is moving everyone around on the line, there should be some blood in the water.

But don't take the Rams lightly...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 07:59:19 am
Bears 20, Rams 17.

The Bears have MANY issues and the Rams are much improved from last year but I think somehow we'll pull out a close, ugly win.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on September 17, 2012, 08:36:14 am
I am totally disgusted with the pregame announers yesterday trashing Cutler for yelling at and bumping Webb. Especially Ditka who said that you should never denigrate a player on national TV. Um..hey Coach...remember when you grabbed Harbaugh by the face mask and held him nose to nose with you while you screamed at him?...ON NATIONAL TV? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 08:38:10 am
What cracks me up is, not more than a few series after Cutler yelled at Webb, they showed Rodgers yelling at a WR for running the wrong route.  Yet Rodgers gets a free pass while Cutler gets crucified.

Ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 17, 2012, 08:41:34 am
Siciliano made a jab when Eli Manning threw his 3rd INT yesterday - said he was channeling his inner Jay Cutler
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 08:49:37 am
BTW was anyone here surprised that Cedric Benson had a pretty good game against us?

Me neither.  That's just what happens to the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 17, 2012, 10:20:52 am
I'm sure he'll still wear his Bear helmet when he's enshrined into the HOF
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 10:30:00 am
Kahlil Bell, Steve Slaton, whatever.

Starting OL is a much bigger issue on this team right now than 2nd/3rd string RB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 11:35:43 am
That game was lost due to the offensive game plan.  I am beginning to think Martz was a Lovie scape goat.  We get off the bus running my azz!


While I totally agree the offensive game plan stunk to high hell I disagree about Lovie having to "get off the bus running".  In today's NFL you have to have a balanced attack because now it's a passing league.  If you concentrate on the run more than the pass instead of balanced attack then you'll be playing catch up all game long.

I don't have any problems with the Bears trying to develop an air attack but you have to have a balanced attack.  Tice did a pitiful job play calling, true enough.  But Cutler was standing in the pocket too long on a lot of series in that game along with making poor decisions with the ball including throwing ducks up for grabs.

The offensive line looked POORLY coached.  Yeah we can all jump on Webb's case about his play but remember the o-line coach PUT HIM THERE!  Blame starts from the top.

Lovie, Tice, Cutler, and offensive line were all at fault.  And the damn Packed caught the Bears off guard with that fake FG attempt. Oh I forgot about the poor officiating too.  I don't think the Packed got whistled but twice in the entire game.

Too many factors involved in Thursday's game.  I personally believe Cutler simply can't beat the Packers.  He's been here going on 4 years and has only beaten them once. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 11:38:48 am
This thought just occurred to me.

Even the good teams have bad games.  In fact two of the best -- the Packers and the Patriots -- have both had bad games already this season.

The difference is, when the Pack or the Patriots have a bad game, they still go down swinging and they usually manage to do it in a regionally televised afternoon game. I mean seriously, who outside of New England and Arizona saw the Pats lose to the Cards yesterday?

OTOH when the Bears have a bad game, it seems like it's always a spectacularly bad performance by at least one of their units, they get blown out and it's on national primetime TV.

That's a big reason why the Bears don't get the respect some of the other upper-tier teams do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 11:42:07 am
I personally believe Cutler simply can't beat the Packers.

I believe this as well, but it's not just Cutler.  This whole Bears team -- right up to and including Lovie -- is scared sh*tless of the Packers and it shows every time they take the field against them.

The only guy in the whole Bears organization who believes we can beat the Pack may be Phil Emery...  and after what he saw Thursday night I wouldn't blame even him for having doubts.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 11:43:32 am
Can't agree with that because with the NFL Network, and ESPN constantly babbling about the New England game the nation is getting it's fill of how bad they looked.

Maybe they need to get a mobile QB back there at second string that would make an effort to get out the pocket when the pressure surrounds them.  McCown is that kind of QB when I saw him play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 11:50:28 am
Are some of you guys SURE you want Bill Cowher here as the HC??? (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/09/17/cowher-bears-may-have-to-make-change-at-qb/)


Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 17, 2012, 11:59:00 am
Are some of you guys SURE you want Bill Cowher here as the HC??? (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/09/17/cowher-bears-may-have-to-make-change-at-qb/)




I think Cowher would have been first in line giving Webb an earful.  I would still take him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 12:01:38 pm
Did you click on the link? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 12:03:05 pm
I think Cowher would have been first in line giving Webb an earful.  I would still take him.

You think Cowher would have Tice here telling him to start Webb at LT?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 17, 2012, 12:06:37 pm
I did.  And no, I dont think Tice would be here, and at a minimum Webb wouldnt be getting a pass.  I think Cowher would get in his face, or the face of his OC or OLine coach or the player. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 12:10:33 pm
Cowher would have been going into his GM's office the morning after a loss like that and demanding he bring in some O-Linemen that can play.

Or, more likely, Cowher would also be the GM and he would be making the personnel moves himself.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 12:12:24 pm
I did. 

Do agree with his stance on J-Cut then.  I mean if HE were coaching it sounds like he would have another QB instead of Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 12:14:07 pm
Cowher would have been going into his GM's office the morning after a loss like that and demanding he bring in some O-Linemen that can play.


Did he do all of that in Pittsburgh?

Quote
Or, more likely, Cowher would also be the GM and he would be making the personnel moves himself.

So you don't feel Emery deserves a chance?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 17, 2012, 12:18:31 pm
Do agree with his stance on J-Cut then.  I mean if HE were coaching it sounds like he would have another QB instead of Cutler.

I would agree with this IF the problem was all on Cutler.  If he was getting protection and not murdered physically repeatedly game after game, and still acted that way, I would say bye bye.  But the guy hasnt had a stud WR, and never had time to throw to one even if he did.  Now he has a couple and just wants some protection.  I cant argue with that at all. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 12:24:59 pm
So you don't feel Emery deserves a chance?

No I didn't say that. But it's widely thought that the only HC gig Cowher will even think about is one that includes de facto if not official (via a GM title) control over personnel matters.  Which means he won't be coming to Chicago anytime soon.

Emery chose to address the WR situation and the D this past offseason, and to keep the status quo on the OL outside of cutting Omiyale and signing Rachal.   In time his choice of priorities may be proven out but right now it's not looking good and so Emery rightfully is going to come under some scrutiny.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 12:25:52 pm
I feel what you're saying but Cowher isn't saying that.  He's blaming Cutler basically and says he needs to go if CUTLER's attitude doesn't change. 

Personally I don't agree with Cowher on this. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 12:35:47 pm
I will say this...

Irrespective of the quality of our OL, WRs or anyone else on the offense, Jay Cutler needs to realize his future with the Bears is very much NOT assured with our new GM at the helm.

Jay Cutler is Angelo's guy, not Emery's guy.  Emery inhereted Cutler just like he inherited Lovie, Tice, Marinelli and the rest.  If this team misses the playoffs again ... and if Emery feels Cutler's positives are not outweighing his negatives at that point... I would not put it past Emery to cut ties with Cutler at the same time he launches Lovie and the coaches.  It would be a radical move and Emery no doubt would take some heat but he's not a guy that would shrink from it.

At some point, if you're a GM and you don't like the shape the team is taking, it is your prerogative and responsibiliity to re-make the team in your own image.  Up to and including the QB if you are convinced that player is more a part of the problem than the solution.

I'm not saying I want Cutler out of town after this season (although too many more games like Thursday and I'll feel otherwise)... in fact I'd be pretty damn p*ssed if that's all we wound up getting for our multiple high draft picks...  I'm just saying that if this team misses the playoffs and puts up too many more embarrassing performances like Thursday night, then anything could happen.  And we should be prepared for that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on September 17, 2012, 12:40:07 pm
Did you click on the link? 

Which antics is he talking about? Getting in Webb's face or last year sitting on the bench and saying nothing? Cutler was criticised for that too. All these same a$$holes including Ditka who are ripping him now were saying that he just didn't care a year ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 17, 2012, 12:43:05 pm
The thing we are forgetting is that not only is this a new offense for the Bears this season its the first time I believe Tice has called plays.  And after that GB I think there is lots of room for improvement.  Capers flat out out-coached the Bears.

Teams are going to try to take out Marshall - the Bears can either run the ball or find another receiver that can beat single coverage.  Who is that guy?  Bennett? Davis? Hester? Jeffrey?  Matt Forte? 

He wasn't there last week that's for sure.

Bears also need to work on their audibles to take advantage of what the defense is going to give you.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 17, 2012, 12:43:50 pm
I guess I can assume that Jay and the OL don't have a Jimmy Mack/ OL type of relationship.  That can spell end of the line for Jay, it takes just one missed block and...BOOM!!  Hello mr Cambell.  You know, looking back I'm starting to wonder if those "missed blocks" were misses at all.  This is turning ugly fast.  A loss to Fisher at home could tank the season asap.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 12:44:26 pm
Yeah, like Ditka really has room to talk about calling players out on national TV.

Ask Jim Harbaugh about that.  ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 12:49:37 pm
Bears also need to work on their audibles to take advantage of what the defense is going to give you.

I saw after the Colts game where Cutler said 50-60% of the plays in that game had been audibles.

I have not heard what the stat on that was for the GB game.  It looked like Cutler was changing things up at the line a lot, and more often than not it was a bad outcome.

So yeah in terms of actual playcalling it's hard to know if the blame for the GB debacle falls more on Tice, on Cutler or equally on both.

The one thing Tice couldn't affect was execution, which was horrible all around. The whiffed blocks, bad throws, drops, etc...  that's 100% on the players.

The other thing is, we have absolutely got to stop this pattern of having our early offensive possessions be deep in our own end zone.  That pick-6 against the Colts happened down by our own goal line, and then sure enough the first few possessions of the Packers game we started out in a hole as well.  We also have been in 3rd and long way too often, especially the GB game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 17, 2012, 01:01:43 pm
Which antics is he talking about? Getting in Webb's face or last year sitting on the bench and saying nothing? Cutler was criticised for that too. All these same a$$holes including Ditka who are ripping him now were saying that he just didn't care a year ago.

Totally agree!  That's why I had a problem with what Cowher was saying about Cutler. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on September 17, 2012, 01:05:12 pm
Just saw in the Trib that Rachal is to start for Spencer this Sunday....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 17, 2012, 01:17:04 pm
I think Cutler is here to stay.
I expect Emery ranked OL, pass rusher and WR as very high needs this offseason.
In FA there were no real upgrades for LT.
I also expect during the draft he felt that McClellin and Jeffrey were better value than the LTs available.
Below are the T's available at either the McClellin or Jeffrey slots.

1-23 Det Riley Reif 6'6 313 - backup LT.
2-5  Cle Mitchell Schwartz  6'5" 318 - starting RT.
2-8  Car Amini Silatolu  6'5' 311 - starting LG
2-9  Buf Cordy Glenn,  6'5 345 - starting LT
2-10 Mia Jonathan Martin 6'5 312 - starting RT
2-12 KC  Jeff Allen 6'4 307 - backup LG
2-24 Pit Mike Adams  6'7 323 - backup LT
2-28 Bal Kelechi Osemele 6'5 333 - starting RT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 01:34:54 pm
Just saw in the Trib that Rachal is to start for Spencer this Sunday....

So, the solution to Webb's suckiness is to replace the guy next to him with a guy who sucked even worse than Spencer in the preseason?

Really?

This is as much proof as anyone needs that for whatever reason, Webb has "protected" status with Lovie and Tice.  The only way he's getting out of the lineup is if he gets hurt.

Or to look at it another way... You've got a multimillion dollar QB who cost you two 1st round draft picks and a 3rd... and you're gonna put his health at stake for the sake of a guy drafted in the 7th round.

Really?

If Webb starts against the Rams and has another sh*tty game then it's time for Emery to intervene. I know that technically the decisions on who starts are supposed to belong to the coaches, but at some point enough is enough.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 17, 2012, 01:54:33 pm
2-9  Buf Cordy Glenn,  6'5 345 - starting LT

Nav

Throw out the guards, throw out the right tackles, this is the only guy we could have drafted to play LT. 

Another possible reason they drafted McClellin instead of a projected LT was the age of our DEs.   Peppers and idonijie are over 30 and Wooten hadn't really showed any kind of durability.  They needed to get younger at DE.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 17, 2012, 01:56:54 pm

Rachal on artificial turf?  We better be running...a lot.

I still don't know why Chris Williams isn't an option at LG.  You can insert him in there and make Jonathon Scott your swing tackle and Spencer can fill in at guard or center.

I think the Bears are fishin'.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 01:59:15 pm
Rachal on artificial turf?  We better be running...a lot.

Rams game is at Soldier Field.

From what I've seen Rachal can't even do his own job. To expect him to cover for Webb as well is just ridiculous, especially against one of the better pass rushers (Chris Long) in the game. Unless Webb's benching is going to be a game-time decision (to keep the Rams from being able to prepare for somebody else)...  but I don't think Lovie's that smart.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 17, 2012, 02:12:01 pm
I'm starting to get that  moving deck chairs on the Titanic feeling.  Someone higher up got sold a bill of goods on the line I'm afraid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 17, 2012, 02:27:31 pm
Just put Chris Williams back at LG already.  He actually played well there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 02:53:16 pm
Maybe Williams is replacing Webb at LT but the Bears don't want the Rams to know that yet.

That being said... the coaches can shuffle bodies all they want but the reality is that we don't have 5 players on our roster capable of playing O-Line at a playoff-caliber level.  In fact I struggle to say we even have 3 at this point. 

Emery gam*bled on Tice, Bates, Cutler, Forte and Marshall to cover for the lack of talent on the O-Line and so far has rolled snake eyes big-time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 17, 2012, 03:27:17 pm
No no no, Williams at LG not LT. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 17, 2012, 04:32:30 pm

Emery gam*bled on Tice, Bates, Cutler, Forte and Marshall to cover for the lack of talent on the O-Line and so far has rolled snake eyes big-time.


We lost to a team that went 15-1 last season and played them on their home turf after they suffered a tough defeat.  I am not making excuses for the Bears, they flat out did not play well, but let's see what happens this weekend.

I mean, we ARE tied for first place in the division.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 04:43:12 pm
I'm hoping too that a big part of the Bears' debacle had to do with having to make a road trip (albeit a short one) on an extremely short week.

We have 10 days to prep for the Rams, we get them at home, and their OL in particular is extremely depleted...  going against a Bears DL that except for Peppers should be at pretty much full strength.  And the forecast calls for sunny and 60-ish so weather will not be a factor. No excuses for the Bears not to get things back on track this Sunday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 17, 2012, 04:46:19 pm

I am just hoping they get Forte back, nothing against Bush, he's a solid pro, but he's not capable of reeling off the long runs.

Maybe I missed it, but who did they cut when they re-signed Bell.  My guess would be they sent Allen to the PS.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 17, 2012, 04:49:55 pm
I thought that as of the Packers game we only had 52 guys on the roster. In which case we wouldn't have had to cut anyone. In any event, Chicagobears.com is showing both Bell and Allen on the 53.

I'm interested to see if the DT Collins finally gets on the field for us.  He was inactive for the Packers game which surprised me a bit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on September 17, 2012, 04:52:52 pm
They cut a rookie S.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 17, 2012, 05:12:51 pm
Seriously, we needed linemen drafted in this draft. The way they're handling the line tells me they don't put much thought into who plays there at all. They must think it's the easiest spot to place bodies and make it work. That has to be the mindset the way they're handling it. Either Emery is as daft as Angielow was or he simply forget that was the highest need spot on the team....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 18, 2012, 02:48:32 am

 WE AINT HERE TO CAUSE NO TROUBLE

 WE ARE HERE TO DO THE OFFENSIVE LINE SHUFFLE !


 Motherfuuuckers ...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on September 18, 2012, 05:05:43 am
WE AINT HERE TO CAUSE NO TROUBLE

 WE ARE HERE TO DO THE OFFENSIVE LINE SHUFFLE !


 Motherfuuuckers ...

LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on September 18, 2012, 08:14:11 am
I suspect the guy who could play the best LT is Lance Louis.

He has the quick feet and the versatility.  I'not saying he's the long term answer but I bet he would stop the bleeding better than anyone else on the roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 08:26:08 am
Lance Louis is barely 6'3.  That's mighty short for a LT where length and wingspan can really giye you the edge.

But then Webb is 6'8 with wingspan for days and he's worthless, so you may be on to something.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 18, 2012, 09:42:13 am
I suspect the guy who could play the best LT is Lance Louis.


Louis did surprisingly well at RT last year.  If Spencer can move back to RG where he was solid you might be on to something.

I was a little surprised at the Spencer benching you'd think they'd want to give the O-line a few games to build some chemistry.  And its not like Rachal played next to Webb in PS - he played most of the time next to Williams.

I think we'll see an overreaction to last week's game plan with a lot of running this Sunday.  May not be a bad move provided they can keep Bradford in check - he's hot.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 18, 2012, 10:16:22 am
Interesting you feel that way about Bradford...

His girlfriend is cute also
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 18, 2012, 12:53:46 pm

Here is all I need to hear about Cutler and the Webb situation:

Cutler said he had discussed the matter "with the powers that be and with the offensive line, each of them individually, and it is what it is.

"It's been blown up probably a little bigger than all of us expected, but that's what you've got to expect out of the media."
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 12:56:27 pm
Hopefully Tice has also sat each of our starting O-Linemen down 1-on-1 and let them know in no uncertain terms that their play last game was completely unacceptable and that jobs are at stake if this continues.

For all the happy talk that has been put out by Halas Hall this offseason it is very clear our O-Line has not improved one bit. In fact they have regressed considerably from where they were before Cutler got hurt last season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 18, 2012, 01:28:40 pm
Remember - O-line needs gellin' time
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 01:38:03 pm
Remember - O-line needs gellin' time

I'm sick of that already.  Every year we waste half the season before our OL is even up to a barely competent level.

Other teams come out Game 1 and their OL's working like a well-oiled machine.  Nope, not buying that excuse anymore. Especially when 4 of the 5 guys on this year's OL are the same guys who started most or all of last season.  "Gelling" should be happening in training camp...  not when the games count. 

But then, we hired an absolute no-name of an OL coach too so what can you expect.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 18, 2012, 02:23:33 pm
Especially when 4 of the 5 guys on this year's OL are the same guys who started most or all of last season.  That's what training camp is for.

Carimi played one and half games...in his NFL career.  Lance Louis played one and a half games at LG last season.  Garza is in his 2nd year at center.  Spencer played center for 5 or 6 years, played RG for about a season and was moved to LG, where he's never played.   Webb started most of the season at LT.

And you expect a well oiled machine?  It took 4 or 5 games last year and I said before I wouldn't be surprised if it takes about that amount of time this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 02:28:52 pm
And you expect a well oiled machine?

I'm not even expecting that out of this group because the talent simply isn't there.  Just a basic level of competency at this point would be a vast improvement. 

Those 5 guys literally looked like they had never been on the same field together before Thursday night.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ISF on September 18, 2012, 02:35:22 pm
My problem with the GB loss is with Tice. You know you have an iffy OL for the pass, and you're going up against a team with Clay Matthews on it.

San Fran played physical against GB and ran it down their throats. If I'm Tice, I come off the bus with 7 on the line and start the game by pounding the run until they show they can stop it. Then run a play-action here and there and use your mismatches at receiver or hit the TE after he's made his block.

There's no way GB should have ever had the opportunity for Matthews to have all those shots at Cutler. You know he's going to overwhelm the OL. Plan for it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 02:45:44 pm
Speaking of which...  not a peep out of Tice since last week's disaster. 

Lovie must have him on lockdown. Which is chickensh*t IMO cause if you're gonna expect your starting QB to own up in public to a bad game, you should expect your OC to do likewise when he's just as much at fault.

I am very unimpressed with how the whole Bears organization has conducted themselves in the wake of this loss... top to bottom. This is not how championship organizations operate. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 18, 2012, 02:50:56 pm
I wonder how much of our alignment has to do with CW being an FA after this year?
I would play him at LG, the only position he has done well and see what the market bears.
Right now we don't have a decent LG or LT, who cares who backs them up, let's get someone decent on the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 02:55:59 pm
Yes it would appear Chris Williams is deep in somebody's doghouse, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 18, 2012, 03:12:52 pm
Exactly ISF and exactly Yapp. Seems the team is incapable of figuring out who or what the offensive line is. They have handled it horrible for years now and teams are just laughing at the mess. They haven't addressed it in the draft, they haven't added any serious talent to the unit, they DO add backups that have played terrible from other teams and they make insane comments like 'we like who we have'. SERIOUS dementia on this staff.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on September 18, 2012, 04:00:13 pm
Bears under Lovie's regime have always started the season slow.  I think it has to do with a soft camp, but I don't disagree because I would rather a healthy team ending toward the end stretch.  That all being said usually game 4 is where we start to play better.  We shall see over the next two weeks if thing improve.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 18, 2012, 04:16:51 pm

I don't know about the rest of the league, but here in Cowboys country they too have soft camps.   I think the NFL player agreements dictate some of that as well as not putting your multi million dollar talent out there as a tackling dummy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 04:17:55 pm
Bears under Lovie's regime have always started the season slow.

Yeah well the problem with that this year is that 3 of our first 4 games are against NFC teams and two of those teams (Packers and Cowboys) are legitimate playoff contenders.

If we get off to a slow start this season it will seriously hurt our playoff chances if it comes down to tiebreakers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 18, 2012, 04:31:10 pm
Tacklin' fuel, tacklin' fuel....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 18, 2012, 05:19:38 pm
If we get off to a slow start this season it will seriously hurt our playoff chances if it comes down to tiebreakers.

Well, by golly, we better not lose any  more games.   (See 2011 NY Giants....See 2010 Green Bay Packers - both wild card teams)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 18, 2012, 05:27:33 pm
Tough Odds
Since the Wild Card System began in 1970, only ten wild card teams have advanced all the way to the Super Bowl. Of those, six won the Super Bowl. Only four of those wild card teams -- New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, New York Giants, and Green Bay Packers -- won three games on the road to make it to the Super Bowl.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 07:06:41 pm
I would hope the sights of this team are set a little higher than backing into the #6 seed.

Although with this OL even that might be a minor miracle.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 18, 2012, 07:28:33 pm
Its funny, if we win on Sunday, nobody will be talking about Cutler or how bad the OLine looks.  All they need to do is win. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 18, 2012, 07:56:13 pm
Yup!  Winning cures everything.

Heck there is an article out saying Peyton Manning is done after his three interception game.

After the win against Pittsburgh he was being talked about as league MVP again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 18, 2012, 08:03:29 pm
The problem is that by now the Bears and Cutler in particular have established a pattern of failing in big games against quality teams. Thursday night being just the latest installment. That does not bode well for them even if they do land a playoff spot this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 18, 2012, 08:08:44 pm
And you expect a well oiled machine?

I'm not even expecting that out of this group because the talent simply isn't there.  Just a basic level of competency at this point would be a vast improvement. 

Those 5 guys literally looked like they had never been on the same field together before Thursday night.


Absolutely agree
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 19, 2012, 03:20:29 am

After the Colt game, Tice, Lovie, Cutler, EVERYBODY thought the Bears had this new high powered offense simply by adding Marshall to the lineup.  They don't - the Packers proved that.

They just need to slow it down - be more boring offensively and cut down on the negative plays - the sacks and the interceptions.  And yeah, and if its not there it's OK to punt.

Let the offense go through Forte not Cutler and then as the game progresses pick your spots and open it up.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 19, 2012, 07:36:36 am
This guy can still play...  I wonder if Emery could coax him to Chicago?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/19/report-brian-waters-turned-down-raise-to-return-to-patriots/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 19, 2012, 07:46:52 am
I think he is still on the NE roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 19, 2012, 09:06:41 am
Six days since the debacle and not a word from Mike Tice...  whose offense failed miserably and who is the only reason J'Marcus Webb is still in the league much less starting at LT.

I've been in Tice's corner pretty much his whole time he's been here... but to go into hiding and not offer any explanation or acknowedge any blame after his offense got flat-out butt-whipped on national TV?  That's just beyond weak.

Lovie and Tice are putting Cutler out there to take all the arrows for the loss while they go into hiding.  People say Cutler is a bad leader but I would say the lack of leadership from our coaching staff is far worse.  At least Cutler is man enough to face the music.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 19, 2012, 09:20:55 am
I think it is just a game... like... for entertainment purposes
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 19, 2012, 09:33:13 am

Lovie and Tice certainly did benefit from all the media attention that Cutler received.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 19, 2012, 09:38:04 am
BTW has anyone else had about enough of Tom Waddle?

I loved him as a player but now that he's a media guy he's just a straight-up jackass whose jealousy/dislike for current Bears players (especially Cutler) is really noticeable.

Not saying he's quite the bitter old man that Gayle Sayers is -- yet, anyway -- but kinda sad to see.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 19, 2012, 11:20:05 am
Honestly, I 'm fed up with all the holes jumping on the beatup Jay bandwagon.  Screw you.  Greg Couch's editorial today is just about the worst.  Who the hell are all these people to pass judgment? Two quarterbacks in my lifetime were worth watching. Jimmy mac and Cutler. Period. I'm supposed to argree with some sod because he can use "petulant" in an editorial about football?  I just love self-serving english majors. The next time any of them contribute to society in ANY way will be the first.  Enjoy your stay living with mommy and daddy you pontificating jerks. Please be secure in the knowledge you sniveling, whining, shrill bitching is why bullies were invented.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 19, 2012, 11:36:26 am
Those guys in town are going to run Cutler out of Chicago with all the negative press.

They do honestly need to move on because Jay is hearing this and I'm sure he's about as fed up with this mess as we all are.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 19, 2012, 11:41:39 am
Florio: Bears Could Be Looking For A New Coach, Quarterback In 2013


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/09/19/florio-bears-could-be-looking-for-a-new-coach-quarterback-in-2013/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on September 19, 2012, 11:48:43 am
The problem with the Jay and the media is National, not Local.  I listened to The Jay Cutler Show yesterday and the one who wouldn't let things go, at least to me, was Silvy, not Waddle.  Jay was jerking Waddle's chain when Waddle asked about the game plan, but I got the sense that it was two players ribbing each other and not a media feeding frenzy with Waddle.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 19, 2012, 11:56:52 am
I don't know buddy.  I've been reading the Sun-Times and the Trib and it seems the majority of the writers are bashing J-Cut daily.  I just posted a link from Florio saying on a local radio station in town that the Bears may need to cut ties with Lovie and Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on September 19, 2012, 11:56:58 am
Florio: Bears Could Be Looking For A New Coach, Quarterback In 2013


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/09/19/florio-bears-could-be-looking-for-a-new-coach-quarterback-in-2013/

When I said local media, I meant broadcast media...the press are pricks pretty much everywhere.  And Florio cites "People at Halas Hall" saying all this.  Jay basically said the media focuses on this stuff a lot more than the players do.  He said he spoke to all the OL about the Packer game and they are all now focused on the Rams.  Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle.  Florio is just trying to sell birdcage liner much as Jay is towing the company line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 19, 2012, 12:08:05 pm
Good points.  It's all about selling papers I guess.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 19, 2012, 12:15:06 pm
I seriously hope the Bears dont get a new QB. New coach? I'm ready before the season began. I still believe somebody has to be held accountable for this miserable OLine we've seen for the last few years. Why havent there been attempts to seriously upgrade the OLine. Absolutely stupid. Emery knew the line was putrid. Did somebody tell him to leave it alone? ...that it was fine as is? And where does Webb thinks he is entitled to be so horrible and still have a job? And why hasnt Mgt stepped up since TC began to improve the line? Since one reason Angelo was fired was because of poor talent everywhere on the team whereby we found ourselves with no competent backup QB and concerns for Cutler's safety why hasnt there been concerns for Cutler's day to day safety via the OLine? Why has the status quo continued? I dont understand it. And management says nothing. "Rex is our QB" Yeah right, Lovie.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 19, 2012, 12:41:59 pm

Wow, I usually bring up 'over reaction Monday' but this is now becoming 'over reaction week'.

 And where the heck does this Florio guy come up with this comment:

“People at Halas Hall are concerned that there is going to be a mutiny. If he does something again at some point, J’Marcus Webb isn’t going to just laugh it off. (They’re afraid) something ugly is going to happen, whether it’s at practice, whether it’s in a game, whether it’s in a meeting room -  the fuse is getting shorter and shorter. There’s concern that something is going to happen.”

Incredible.   Like he has an in with the Bears' staff and players.

And I just logged in to the Trib web site and saw the following links:


Pompei: In big games, Cutler comes up small (with a nice pic to boot)

Rosenbloom video: Cutler needs to 'act like a big boy'

VOTE: Do you trust Cutler in big games?

Cutler's 12 biggest games with Bears

'Smoking' site lampoons Cutler


Didn't read a single one.

 And you know if Cutler has a big game Sunday the bi-polar media will be coming out with more of that sugary crap we had to digest in the offseason about Cutler and Marshall again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 19, 2012, 12:54:48 pm
It doesn't help that this was all connected to a nationally televised, divisional game which the Bears lost badly.  And the 4th loss in a row to the same team. And then you compound that with the fact that there are three more days of copy to fill than there would normally be until the next game .

If this had been a regional Sunday afternoon broadcast against an AFC team... and Cutler had thrown 4 picks but the Bears had still managed to win, there would be 1/10 of the the media brouhaha coming out of all this as there has been.  Even if the Webb shoulder bump thing had still happened.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on September 19, 2012, 01:07:32 pm
The smoking Jay pictures are great.  Perfect...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 19, 2012, 04:22:12 pm
Speaking of smoking...

I seriously think they should test Webb for pot.  He's the biggest player on the field but also usually the worst. They say he struggles with "focus" and "consistency"...  well, guess what that's a symptom of?

Something's not right with that dude but I don't think the problem is physical.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 19, 2012, 04:30:09 pm

I agree - the problem may not be entirely physical.

 I unfortunately missed the beginning of the Packer game (screwed up the DVR recording), but I noticed in the Colt game that they gave Webb help from the get go on pass protection.  Then as the game progressed he got less and less help.

Not sure what happened at GB, but I read that there was one instance where he was almost frozen on a Matthews sack.

I don't think he's a pot smoker but he may have an attention deficit issue or possibly just lacks confidence and thats what they need to build up early on in a game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 19, 2012, 04:34:25 pm
Another reason it's very likely Webb got less help later in the Colts game is that Dwight Freeney left sometime in the 1st quarter with an injury and didn't return.

And if Webb has ADD or anxiety or whatever then the absolute WORST thing to do is leave him out there and hope he'll "play his way out of it" while continuing to put our franchise QB at risk.  What you do with a guy like that is you treat it exactly like a serious physical injury... pull him out of the action and sit him down until a professional psych staff can figure out what's going on, allow him time to "rehab" (via medication or counseling or whatever), and then when he's "healthy" put him back in.

If his confidence is so fragile he can't handle being benched then he has no business playing what is arguably the 2nd most critical position on the entire offense.  I recall the "confidence" thing being an issue with Chris Williams as well which leads me to believe we need some guys on this OL who are a lot tougher than the current crew, not just physically but mentally.

Webb reminds me a lot of Bryant McKinnie.  All the physical tools to be a dominant player but just not the total package.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: panthermark on September 19, 2012, 04:48:09 pm
Damn....is it possible to trade Bush for a LT?  Bush makes a nice one-two punch....but we NEED a REAL LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 19, 2012, 06:06:32 pm
I watched thegame  clip that showed Cutler pushing Webb several times and it looked to me like Webb was grinning or laughing after the push.  Did anyone else notice that?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 19, 2012, 06:20:08 pm
There was a lot of laughing and grinning on the Bears sideline. Way too much considering the butt kicking we were taking. The Bears totally mailed it in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Fearless Freep on September 19, 2012, 07:32:29 pm
Smokin' Jay Cutler (http://smokinjaycutler.tumblr.com/)

Pretty funny.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 19, 2012, 07:53:31 pm
Are they mocking the way his mouth looks or something? I don't get it....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Fearless Freep on September 19, 2012, 08:01:03 pm
I think it's Cutler's general hangdog look combined with his less-than-energetic personality.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 19, 2012, 08:04:52 pm
Hey...he chest bumps linemen! There's got to be 'some' life in that body....somewhere....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 19, 2012, 08:17:53 pm
I watched thegame  clip that showed Cutler pushing Webb several times and it looked to me like Webb was grinning or laughing after the push.  Did anyone else notice that?

Now that you mention it - I did.  Think about it.  Webb outweighs Cutler by at least 100 lbs.   

As for Cutler, he's been portrayed as too laid back....now he's too fiery.  The only way to shut up the criitics is to win.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 19, 2012, 08:42:53 pm
And yet not a single writer or talking head has called out Lance Briggs for laughing after he dropped an easy Int ... Even though that sideline shot was nationally televised as well.

Personally I'd rather see a guy thats upset about losing than someone just laughing it off.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 19, 2012, 09:32:58 pm
It's definately not like the days of Mongo putting a chair through a wall. These guys are nothing like those men....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on September 19, 2012, 09:40:12 pm
Way too much soap opera  with the NFl media.

I could care less if one guy may have hurt another guys feelings.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 19, 2012, 09:44:50 pm
Yea, what is this anyway? A man's game or a wimps game? Worried about hurting a underperforming team members feelings? What's next, group hugs???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 19, 2012, 10:03:09 pm

I think Jay should seriously consider buying Webb some Isotoner gloves...worked for Marino.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 20, 2012, 04:48:16 am
Dallas - I think Marino bought those gloves for the entire offensive line, not just the ones sucking.   ;D

Someone posted and I completely agree, there have been games I have noticed that Webb has had help from the start of the game that slowly went away during the game.  That has been my observation as well and I have noticed that if Webb has time to get the game under his belt a little he is more effective. Could be the competition he is facing, but it could also be that he needs to get a few reps where he builds his confidence early, much like allowing a QB to throw short passes to get his confidence going.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 20, 2012, 07:48:57 am
All of which could also partially be attributable to Webb's youth. IIRC he's just now only 23.  On top of which, he played zero competition in college...  those DEs he faced at West Texas A&M are working in grain elevators and driving trucks today, not suiting up on Sundays.

Not to make excuses for the guy -- he's the worst O-Lineman on our team and one of the worst in the league -- but he would have really benefited from sitting 2-3 seasons behind a solid veteran LT, learning his craft and working into the rotation slowly.  If there was ever a practice squad candidate it was him but instead he was thrown into the starting RT position as a rookie and then LT only his 2nd year in the league. That's more a fail on the coaches than it is on Webb.

The problem now is that the coaches stubbornly refuse to bench the guy.  The harm isn't in making a mistake, the harm is in not admitting it and stubbornly refusing to cut your losses.  I've seen a lot of that on this Bears coaching staff over the years (see also Caleb Hanie), and it's happening now with Webb.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 20, 2012, 07:59:31 am
So Tice says he's replacing Spencer with Rachal in order to improve the run game.

Newsflash, Mike.  Cutler got sacked 7 times last week, was hit many more times than that and was pressured into 4 INTs.  Our RBs didn't do so great on YPC but run blocking was NOT our biggest problem on offense last week. And Rachal is a notoriously bad pass blocker...  in fact it's why he lost the starting gig in San Fran. 

Unless Tice is planning to call 50 running plays on Sunday that move on the OL makes no sense at all.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 20, 2012, 10:10:33 am
Not to make excuses for the guy -- he's the worst O-Lineman on our team and one of the worst in the league -- but he would have really benefited from sitting 2-3 seasons behind a solid veteran LT, learning his craft and working into the rotation slowly.

Maybe a year for the small school guys to work on their strength/conditioning and to pickup the mental aspect of the game.  But you don't learn anything watching 2 or 3 years.

Unless Tice is planning to call 50 running plays on Sunday that move on the OL makes no sense at all.


Bingo!  This was a total knee-jerk decision.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 20, 2012, 10:13:42 am
Then I hope our D and STs eat their Wheaties cause if Tice takes the game completely out of Cutler's hands we're gonna be punting a lot.

We rolled in the Colts game because we were balancing run and pass.  We failed (in part) against GB because we got down in the count score wise, panicked and got pass-happy. Overbalancing to the run side is likely to yield the same result.  Not to mention we're short on RB depth as I assume Forte will not play and Kahlil Bell is very likely not in football shape.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on September 20, 2012, 12:56:29 pm
Quote
“People at Halas Hall are concerned that there is going to be a mutiny. If he does something again at some point, J’Marcus Webb isn’t going to just laugh it off. (They’re afraid) something ugly is going to happen, whether it’s at practice, whether it’s in a game, whether it’s in a meeting room -  the fuse is getting shorter and shorter. There’s concern that something is going to happen.”


What something bad like hitting a team mate in the face with a weight?
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 20, 2012, 01:02:00 pm
Agreed, the media has just taken this thing way too far.  I'm one of those who feels Cutler was in the right to begin with, but even those who feel the opposite have to admit enough is enough.

Garza -- who's the leader of the OL as well as a team captain -- told reporters yesterday that Cutler has addressed each member of the OL individually and that the matter is settled.  If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

On top of which Lovie Smith has told DJ Moore that his public comments were out of line.

The only thing that's really been missing, IMO, is an acknowledgement of blame by Mike Tice for the entire offense's horrific performance and some very questionable gameplanning... but it may be that Lovie has him under a gag order.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 20, 2012, 01:19:25 pm
The story I heard is a little different. Seems Lovie said that it was all right for players to talk to the media and give their opinions provided they gave their name. Well DJ Moore did that when he blasted Cutler. Then Lovie calls DJ into his office and chews him out for speaking to the media. Then DJ goes and tells the media that Lovie chewed his butt out. So its the same same old Lovie. A gag order on Tice? Likely just like the DJ Moore stuff too. Surprised at Halas Hall? Its just a soap opera "As the Lovie Turns"
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 20, 2012, 01:37:00 pm
I think most coaches would say they would allow players to speak their mind.
I would also expect it is an unwritten rule that you keep that kind of stuff in the locker room.
On the field in the heat of the moment stuff happens but when you have time to cool off you don't call each other out in public.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 20, 2012, 02:55:52 pm

I'm done talking about the Cutler/Webb thing.   Gee, maybe we could talk about the Rams...you know, our next opponent?

The only thing that's really been missing, IMO, is an acknowledgement of blame by Mike Tice for the entire offense's horrific performance and some very questionable gameplanning... but it may be that Lovie has him under a gag order

I don't recall where exactlyI read it but Tice acknowledged  the players and coaches performance not being acceptable.  I agree, but having to go into Green Bay on a short week is a tough assignment for someone who has exactly one game experience with calling plays.   (correct me if I'm wrong I thought his prior positions were HC and OL coach).

Hopefully, he won't be like Martz and will learn from the experience.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 20, 2012, 03:04:05 pm

Trib article on Hardin's status - he says he's good to go:   http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-brandon-hardin-opens-up-on-seasonending-neck-injury-20120920,0,2936533.story

The only problem is the Bears put him on IR.  Which in past years meant he's done for the year, but the NFL amended that rule and have a special recall option on the IR.  Wonder why  Harden wasn't designated with it. 

And what happened to Booker?  Was he IR'd or cut?

Is the IR designation like challenge flags...you only get a certain number?


Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 20, 2012, 03:06:01 pm
That Hardin pick should have been a lineman.....we didn't need another injury prone safety....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 20, 2012, 03:35:04 pm
Maybe the Bears medical staff erred on the side of caution when initially assessing the severity of Hardin's injury.  Or maybe the coaches had seen deficiencies in Hardin's game where they felt he would be better off effectively redshirting the season.

From the day they drafted him they were setting Bears fans expectations low on him contributing anything other than special teams his rookie year.  If they knew already when they drafted him that they weren't going to play him at S his first year it would have made the decision to IR him a lot easier.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 20, 2012, 04:01:28 pm

I liked the Hardin pick - he was going to have to go through a bit of a learning curve for safety but his size/speed numbers were at the top of the charts.

And yes safety was a need pick.  Right now we have 3 guys with NFL experience at safety - the 4th guy as far as I know only has played STs (Walters) and Steltz is strictly an in the box safety.

Looking back just about every safety we've drafted in the past decade has started at one time or another in his rookie year - most likely Hardin would have played this year too.

Just wondering why they can't bring him back - he's over the sore neck.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 20, 2012, 04:05:42 pm
I wonder if you can reverse the designation on the IR thing.  Haven't seen that question addressed anywhere.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 20, 2012, 04:13:40 pm
I found this worth the read:

http://chi.scout.com/2/1222789.html

Its pretty heavy but calls it like it is. It assesses the blame just where it belongs
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 20, 2012, 04:16:36 pm
I would say...and I'm proven right by the current mess of a line situation...that offensive linemen were a much greater need than another Safety. Yes we needed a safety but not nearly as much as we needed a quality lineman and recent events have proven this out....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 20, 2012, 04:31:27 pm
I found this worth the read:

http://chi.scout.com/2/1222789.html

Its pretty heavy but calls it like it is. It assesses the blame just where it belongs


Agreed, wishful.  I've read [way too] many articles on this topic since last Friday and this is the first one out of all of them that really gives a balanced, fair take on the situation.

Cutler's behavior last Thursday night was the symptom, not the disease.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 20, 2012, 04:36:50 pm
Its the best one I've seen and there is a lot of blame to be dished out. Hope others enjoy the read
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 20, 2012, 04:40:55 pm
It laid the blame on the GM to Webb. Nobody was spared. Until the whole situation is resolved this problem could reoccur again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 20, 2012, 04:45:04 pm
It laid the blame on the GM to Webb. Nobody was spared. Until the whole situation is resolved this problem could reoccur again.

Yup.  Like a week from Monday, in primetime -- again.  Against another big-time pass rusher (Ware) -- again.

In fairness though, the GM to blame for Webb isn't Emery, it's Angelo, who brought him onto the team in the first place.  Unless you blame Emery for not bringing in anyone better, and/or you maintain that Emery should have stepped in by now and demanded that Webb be benched.  But I don't think Emery has that kind of pull in the Halas Hall hierarchy or it almost certainly would have happened already.

One thing is for sure...  the Bears had better not plan on introducing the offense at Soldier Field Sunday.  One half of the crowd will boo Cutler, the other half will boo Webb, everyone will boo Tice, and it will just be ugly all around.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 20, 2012, 08:04:54 pm
I wonder if you can reverse the designation on the IR thing.  Haven't seen that question addressed anywhere.

The final agreement between the NFL and NFLPA is that one player from IR can b returned to the roster.  I believe that includes a 6 game interval.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 21, 2012, 05:50:13 am
I believe what I read about that IR designation is that you have to declare it within 3 days of the players injury, and you can only use the designation once in a season.  You can't wait until week 8 and then say, we are going to activate Hardin.  He is no longer retractable.  And if we had designated Hardin on time and another player goes down, we can no longer desiginate another player with this status and remove it from Hardin.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 21, 2012, 07:51:16 am
OK, so Hardin is done for the season then.

Hope he is able to play in more than just the Tampa 2 or he will have been a complete waste of a pick if Lovie and Marinelli get launched at the end of this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 21, 2012, 09:21:53 am
In fairness though, the GM to blame for Webb isn't Emery, it's Angelo, who brought him onto the team in the first place.  Unless you blame Emery for not bringing in anyone better, and/or you maintain that Emery should have stepped in by now and demanded that Webb be benched.  But I don't think Emery has that kind of pull in the Halas Hall hierarchy or it almost certainly would have happened already.

How can you blame Angelo for drafting Webb...in the SEVENTH ROUND? 

As for Emery, he might have been influenced by Tice's assessment of Webb, but the longer he is GM the more he should be making his own decisions on who is on the roster with less dependence on others. 

And the coaches determine who plays and who is benched - not the GM.  At least that's how it should be though its not always the case.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 21, 2012, 09:26:38 am
Hope he is able to play in more than just the Tampa 2 or he will have been a complete waste of a pick if Lovie and Marinelli get launched at the end of this year.

Nobody knows if he can play safety in any scheme.

I would say...and I'm proven right by the current mess of a line situation...that offensive linemen were a much greater need than another Safety. Yes we needed a safety but not nearly as much as we needed a quality lineman and recent events have proven this out....

When drafting you not only have to look at need but you have to look at available talent.

I believe what I read about that IR designation is that you have to declare it within 3 days of the players injury, and you can only use the designation once in a season.

Makes sense.  Bears are saving it for one of their starters.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 21, 2012, 09:40:21 am
How can you blame Angelo for drafting Webb...in the SEVENTH ROUND?

Its not that I am blaming Angelo for spending a 7th round pick on Webb, its that he didnt spend other picks on more talented players. But we see what you get with a 7th round pick and we need better than that. There was a distinct reason Webb lasted till the 7th round. He stinks. PFF had him rated as one of the worst OTs in the league. How can the Bears continue to stay with this guy? I guess the answer is how long do you want to be losers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 21, 2012, 09:49:23 am
I'm pretty sure Angelo is the only GM who even had Webb on his board.

No other team would have even spent a draft pick on the guy.  They would have brought him in as an UDFA and assuming he survived training camp, he would have been parked on their practice squad the next couple of years.   Like what Emery did this year with James Brown.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 21, 2012, 09:57:36 am
Very likely indeed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 21, 2012, 01:03:15 pm
I'm pretty sure Angelo is the only GM who even had Webb on his board.

No other team would have even spent a draft pick on the guy.  They would have brought him in as an UDFA and assuming he survived training camp, he would have been parked on their practice squad the next couple of years.   Like what Emery did this year with James Brown.

Oh come on now.  You acting like Webb was a first rounder or something.    He was a 7th rounder and those picks are usually projects anyway so to be upset at Webb because he was placed at LT doesn't make sense.    IF you want to be mad at anyone it should be MIKE TICE!!!  He's the one who said Webb was his LT and put him there after having him at RT.  Mike Tice placed him there and he should shoulder the blame at that spot because he wanted Webb to play there

Now don't forget sometimes the lower round picks do pan out ala Terrell Davis for the Broncos.  If I recall he was a 6th round pick. 

Put the blame on Tice where it belongs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 21, 2012, 01:08:19 pm
If anything, Tice should be blamed for not having benched Webb by now.

Webb directly allowed at least 3 of the 7 sacks on Cutler plus other hits, so rather than sitting him down Tice benches the guy next to him (Spencer) and replaces him with a guy (Rachel) whose lack of pass blocking ability got him benched (and ultimately released) by his former team. If you're gonna replace the LG (who isn't the problem in the 1st place) then why not replace him with the only guy who looked decent at all there last year:  Chris Williams?

The logic is flawed on so many levels that I have no idea what Tice is thinking is on that move.

IIRC Tice worked with Bryant McKinnie in Minnesota.  That's when McKinnie was actually pretty good.  I think Tice has the delusion that Webb can be the next McKinnie or something (they're pretty much clones physically).  Unfortunately the closest Webb has come to McKinnie is the McKinnie that's currently riding the bench in Baltimore after taking a pay cut.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 21, 2012, 02:52:25 pm

If anything, Tice should be blamed for not having benched Webb by now.

Like he has Jimbo Covert waiting in the wings...

Tice apparently sees something in Webb - but Tice is running out of time.  Webb needs to have a solid game Sunday or Tice will be forced to put in Williams or Scott.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 21, 2012, 03:18:02 pm
Tice apparently sees something in Webb - but Tice is running out of time.

Definitely. Webb has had three training camps and two and one-eighths seasons of game action, almost entirely as a starter. At some point you have to s*it or get off the pot when it comes to a young player and I for one am beyond tired of waiting for the light to go on.  The abuse (physical and otherwise) that Cutler has taken since joining the Bears has probably shortened his effective career at least a couple of years already.

Reportedly Jonathan Scott has been getting practice reps at LT so I hope that means Tice is at least preparing a contingency plan in the event Webb gets off to another awful start Sunday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 21, 2012, 03:29:16 pm
If anything, Tice should be blamed for not having benched Webb by now.

Like he has Jimbo Covert waiting in the wings...


Now isnt that a mouthful of ca ca. And just why havent we got a Jimbo Covert waiting in the wings? You have to blame the GM for that. Hello Jerry Angelo, step right up. Put the blame squarely where it belongs
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 21, 2012, 03:37:29 pm
Exactly! WHO is responsible for NOT having a Jimbo Covert in the wings? THIS STAFF IS! It's TICE'S fault, it's LOVIE'S fault, it's Angie's, it's Emery's. If they don't have good lineman, look in the mirror! We DID have draft picks that could have gone to help this situation...in fact for the LAST THREE YEARS! The only fault is their own....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 21, 2012, 05:32:57 pm
Ok, after we blame Angelo for all our problems.  Now what do we do?

This thread is so 2011...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 21, 2012, 07:18:56 pm
No, this thread is 'so 2010, so 2011, AND so 2012', THREE years of failure addressing the line problems...we all see it, and we all know it....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 21, 2012, 07:49:26 pm
We wait for the 2013 draft and hope Emery finally fixes the problem then. By any means necessary.

Thats what we do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 21, 2012, 07:59:26 pm
Wow!  We wait?

I'm going to try and enjoy the season of 2012.  2013 is 2013...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 21, 2012, 08:23:42 pm
And hopefully Cutler is still functional after this season. And not so p*ssed he forces a trade.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 21, 2012, 08:42:03 pm
Cutler doesn't need to force a trade.  He is only under contract for one more year after this I think.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 21, 2012, 09:58:02 pm
We COULD have used our first or second round pick on a T, but didnt.  Whose fault is that?  Tice for saying Webb is good enough?  Emery for believing him?  Lovie for backing up Tice.  Maybe Webb has pictures of Lovie and Tice, who knows.  But we need someone who can play better and more consistently or Cutler is going out in a body bag. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 21, 2012, 10:41:07 pm
Yes GB we wait. Now the new CBA extended the trading deadline so technically there is still hope for this year but realistically I dont see any team trading a bonifide LT at this point of the season. So unless that clown they picked up off the scrap heap has some life in him I dont see any real change happening till the season ends. Hopefully Cutler is still alive and healthy by then.

And I do like the idea of trading with Miami for Jake Long.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 22, 2012, 01:49:24 am

 
    LT LG C RG RT
 TE
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 22, 2012, 06:51:28 am
If you can get jake Long sure.  What would you give up?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 22, 2012, 08:50:24 am
Give the Fins our 1st in 2013 our 2nd in 2014 and Devin Hester.

Add our 4th in 2014 if it takes that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on September 22, 2012, 09:38:43 am
PFFFFFT,               no ones going to give up their starting LT                Get real.

The best we can hope for is a team with a young healthy pro bowl LT has a very promising backup.

Probably have to trade something like Jeffry
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 22, 2012, 11:38:36 am
Give the Fins our 1st in 2013 our 2nd in 2014 and Devin Hester.

Add our 4th in 2014 if it takes that.

Damn for a LT?   Glad you're not our GM.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 22, 2012, 08:01:43 pm
Unhappiness about an inadequate LT is understandable but there shouldn't be any complaints about drafting McClellin.  He will likeley become a Pro-bowler.  He would look might good in green and yellow.

If you drafted a LT who would it be?  Would he be successful and a worthy choice?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 22, 2012, 10:19:21 pm
Damn for a LT?   Glad you're not our GM.

Jake Long is a known commodity, A first round rookie, probably very low in the 1st too, is a crap shoot, then you have to wait till he develops. Trading up like Washington did for RGlll this coming April? Unlikely, nobody would trade down that low in the 1st. Waiting for another 3 years for Webb to develop? STUPID. But thats the option you'd likely choose.

Hey like Garfield says, "A cats gotta do what a cats gotta do". So if thats what the Bears have to do to get a bonifide LT then thats what you do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ATUMRE75 on September 24, 2012, 07:42:49 am
Thank god for defense. Offensive line still having issues. ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 08:05:14 am
The OL was bad again, but the whole offense was awful yesterday.  And that was with 10 days to prepare. The WRs really need to step it up and when are we gonna end the Hester-as-a-WR experiment once and for all?  Every offensive play to him this season has been a wasted down it seems.

Not good at all considering we have a much better defense facing us next Monday night.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 24, 2012, 08:35:45 am
Funny how the Rams went to kicking it out of bounds again after Hester had some nice returns yesterday
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 09:15:38 am
In retrospect the easy Game 1 win against the Colts was a mixed blessing in that it got a lot of people thinking our offense was all together and clicking.  The last two games have shown that is clearly not the case.

The problem is that we don't exactly have powder puff defenses coming up on the schedule where we can work the kinks out.  The O needs to start clicking consistently, and soon.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 24, 2012, 09:47:22 am
Next Monday night would be nice. National tv, only game on, away game, same timezone,  sound familiar?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 24, 2012, 09:48:48 am
What would Ditka say?

It's nearly impossible to have a game where all 3 phases are in sync..

Maybe your pursuit of perfection should be targeted on a simpler sport
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 10:06:21 am
It's nearly impossible to have a game where all 3 phases are in sync.

At least with Lovie teams it seems to be.

It was a win, which was much needed.  And the D looked great (keeping in mind the Rams were down to 2nd and 3rd stringers on their OL).  But there's still a lot of work to do if the Bears want to hang with the big boys. And Cutler's 58 passer rating after 3 games doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for a deep playoff push. 

http://sulia.com/channel/chicago-bears/f/612dcdb3-bf7a-4b1d-b681-4c5713ff44dc/?source=twitter
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 10:11:04 am
Next Monday night would be nice. National tv, only game on, away game, same timezone,  sound familiar?

Yup.  No love from the schedule makers for the Bears this year, that's for sure.  Two primetime games out of the first 4, both on the road and both against legit playoff teams.  That's tough sledding.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 24, 2012, 10:41:28 am
The OL was bad again, but the whole offense was awful yesterday.  And that was with 10 days to prepare.

Totally agree.

Quote
The WRs really need to step it up and when are we gonna end the Hester-as-a-WR experiment once and for all?  Every offensive play to him this season has been a wasted down it seems.

I agree with this assessment as well.  Marshall and Jeffrey absolutely dropped passes yesterday right in their hands.  Cutler's passes were off half the time too.  I know you don't like Hester but he made a great move on Courtland Finnigan in the end zone and if he were 7 feet tall he would've caught that pass from Cutler.  Cutler had time to put that pass right between Hester's numbers but he overthrew him badly.  I'm willing to bet he would've caught that pass if it was right on the money.  Then you wouldn't complain about him today.  :)

Quote
Not good at all considering we have a much better defense facing us next Monday night.

Believe me the Cowboys didn't look all that good yesterday either.  We DO have better weapons on offense than the Bucs and I hope that they do gel next Monday night or like you said it'll be another disaster like it was in game two.   The Bears beat them a couple years ago in their house and if they can get their head out of their ass next week I could see them repeating that feat.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 10:56:04 am
Believe me the Cowboys didn't look all that good yesterday either.

No but they looked plenty good against the Giants a couple of weeks ago...  whose offense is better than ours across the board. 

That's the Cowboys team I expect to show up against us in primetime next week.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 24, 2012, 11:06:01 am
That was the first game of the year.  The last 2 games their offense has looked like crap.

I can see your concern about their defense but their offense has struggled the last 2 games just like the Bears.  We have a chance next Monday night.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 11:11:49 am
We do have a chance.  DeMarcus Ware against our OL has the potential to be really ugly though.  Hopefully Tice & Co. have figured out what went wrong against Clay Matthews and can come up with some tricks to guard against a repeat of that. 

Against the Cowboys we basically need to adopt the same gameplan the Vikings used against the Niners yesterday.  On offense, run the ball, buy time for the QB through play action and moving the pocket, and limit the deep dropbacks.  On defense, get to the QB and wrap up on tackles.  And keep execution high and mistakes low in all 3 phases.   Since the Vikings are my home market team that's the game I was watching yesterday and let me tell you, other than a couple of pretty bad ST breakdowns and three Toby Gerhardt fumbles late in the game, the Vikings looked really good. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Baldbear on September 24, 2012, 11:12:45 am
I golfed yesterday and recorded the game.  About 10 minutes into the first quarter my DVR had stopped recording.  At first I wanted to blame my wife, but then realized the DVR was full.  Kind of glad I missed it...looked like a real snoozer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 24, 2012, 01:34:43 pm

And the D looked great (keeping in mind the Rams were down to 2nd and 3rd stringers on their OL).

Not exactly true.

RT Barry Richardson has started all  3 games this season - he started every game the last 2 years with KC
LG Harvey Dahl has started all 3 games this season - he also started every game the last 2 years with Rams and Falcons
C Robert Turner has started all 3 game this season - he was a backup for most of his career
RG Quinn Ojinnaka  has started the last 2 game with the Rams - he has been a career backup but has 15 career starts prior to this season
LT Wayne Hunter has only started 1 game this season with the Rams and is the only backup starter from what I can tell but he did start 16 games last season with the Jets

And the D looked great PERIOD.  Bradford came into the game with around the 5th best QB rating in the league - I don't think he left with it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 24, 2012, 01:43:30 pm
Cowboys are having problems with their O-line play.  Romo is solid as our most their skill positions though TE Witten has had an uncharacteristic case of the dropsies.   On their line they are starting an emergency backup at center and their 2 FA guards are not doing that well.  Their J'Marcus Webb is playing RT, Doug Free.

Defensively, they are solid but have been hit by some injuries - especially at safety.  They have 3 solid corners and may have to start one of their corners at safety (Brandon Carr).  Their pro bowl quality NT has been out (Ratliff) but he may return Monday.  But overall the defense has been sound.

They have monster at ROLB and they have good cover corners - which  could give our slow footed receivers problems.  Last time we played them Greg Olsen made a key TD catch that helped us in the win.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 24, 2012, 01:47:17 pm
So did Hester!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 02:01:36 pm
Dallas, good breakdown of the Cowboys.

I don't see our air game getting untracked next Monday night, that's for sure.  Between Ware and the Cowboys D-Backfield yards through the air will be hard to come by.  I'm seeing several sacks/hits on Cutler and a couple more INTs. If Ratliff is back that will further complicate things.

The Cowboys are a lot like the Rams, only with better and/or more experienced players at key positions. So just like D and the run game took the day at Chicago yesterday, that will be our best chance to win Monday.

Sorry to say but I foresee another meltdown of our passing game in primetime, us losing the turnover battle and I'm not sure our D can pick up the slack this time.  I'm calling a 23-13 Cowboys win and have to continue picking against the Bears in primetime until they can put it all together under the lights with the whole country watching.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 24, 2012, 02:08:18 pm
Not sure which was more disturbing yesterday, watching Marshall and Jeffery both have passes bounce off/out of their hands, or the passes that Cutler threw to open WRs that were just way off the mark.  That one he threw behind Earl Bennet comes to mind quickly.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 24, 2012, 02:20:00 pm

Biggest difference between the Rams and the Cowboys on offense is Romo.  That guy has eyes in the back of his head and will extend plays with his scrambles.  Bradford appeared to just go into a shell when the pressure got to him.

Cowboys (by yardage) are the #1 D in the NFL - and 2nd against the pass.  We are going to need some ST/defense scores Monday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 02:27:50 pm
Biggest difference between the Rams and the Cowboys on offense is Romo.

Agreed. That's one guy I had in mind when I said the Cowboys have better/more experienced players at key positions.

For all the abuse Romo has taken in Dallas he is still in the upper half of NFL starting QBs, IMHO.  And those Cowboys OLs have been shaky to put it kindly in recent years so he's been working against a lot of the same challenges as Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on September 24, 2012, 03:08:05 pm
I wonder if that thumb is acting up?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 24, 2012, 03:22:51 pm

Good point - I'm sure Lovie will fill us in if Cutler's having problems with the thumb.  NOT.

On that screen to Hester I did notice that Jay did lose control of the ball.   And throughout the day his passes were low, high, and late...maybe it is the thumb.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 03:37:20 pm
Lions looking up at the Vikings in the NFC North...

Cardinals undefeated...

Strange days indeed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 24, 2012, 03:58:24 pm
On that screen to Hester I did notice that Jay did lose control of the ball.   And throughout the day his passes were low, high, and late...maybe it is the thumb.

Just so he doesn't take to wearing one of those gloves that Stafford wore last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on September 24, 2012, 05:33:08 pm
Seeing as how his thumb was bleeding the entire game and he was constantly messing with it I am guessing it had something to do with his accuracy issues.  I think it got smashed early in the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 25, 2012, 09:10:03 am

And that's the same thumb he busted up last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 25, 2012, 10:36:51 am
Untl brought up here, I hadn't thought about that.  I wonder if the damn  thing is dinged up again. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 10:40:26 am
Jason LaCanfora is tweeting that the Bears are bringing in ex-Packers RB Ryan Grant for a workout.

Interesting...

Also says it appears Forte will not be practicing this week and possibly not ready for Cowboys game.  That ain't good.  We're gonna need all hands on deck for that one.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 25, 2012, 10:47:14 am
Along those lines, Dallas, you got tickets?  You going? In your Sid Luckman Throwback jersey? A brave man if you are.  That place may be the glitz palace of the universe, but its still full of drunk gun toting  Texans who take out every loss on something close bye.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 25, 2012, 11:28:49 am

I think I might have just lucked out today and could be attending the game in one of the corporate suites.  My boss got some passes from a vendor and was looking for some volunteers from our group.  I have been looking on stub hub and ebay for a couple weeks now so I'm glad I didn't purchase anything.

I will be wearing a Bears shirt and cap.  Not worried about the Cowboys fans - they sit on their hands.  Now if I was going to Oakland Alameda I'd have to think twice about wearing my Bears gear but at Dallas I will have plenty of company.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 11:45:16 am
Cool score, Dallas!  Glad that worked out for you.  Have fun.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 25, 2012, 11:52:04 am

I just hope I can concentrate on watching the game and not have to deal with any chit chat  or other distractions - and I'm going to miss my re-wind and slow mo.   I just guess I'll have to make do...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 11:58:06 am
There are rumblings that Michael Bush injured himself at some point in the Rams game and that's why Bell was playing down the stretch.  That's why the look at Ryan Grant.

On top of that, the tone is getting more pessimistic about Forte playing Monday night.  Granted it's a ways off yet but the prospect of facing Dallas minus Forte and with Bush at less than 100% is not a real happy one.  Depending on our passing offense to win that game is asking for disaster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 25, 2012, 12:12:45 pm
1.- Good for you Dallas, have a good time and drink like your at Chicago. 2.- Things must have changed since the early 90's, they were a rowdy bunch. Course, back then you could go to your local drive through liquor store, pick up a case, and drive around. 3.- so now the Bears have no running backs? Are you serious?
.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 25, 2012, 12:27:22 pm

Yeah, I recall the drive thru beer barns - when it was OK to have an open container as long as just the passengers were drinking!

At first I was pi**ed off that again Lovie is not very forthcoming on the injury front.  But I can understand as the Cowboys don't need any extra information to prepare for the possibility of Forte, Bush, and/or Rodriguez being out.

I have faith in Bell but I'd like for him not to be our primary option.  And I guess we'll have to wait another week for the Bears to start utilizing Rodriguez as a receiver.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 25, 2012, 12:34:09 pm
There are rumblings that Michael Bush injured himself at some point in the Rams game and that's why Bell was playing down the stretch.  That's why the look at Ryan Grant.

On top of that, the tone is getting more pessimistic about Forte playing Monday night.  Granted it's a ways off yet but the prospect of facing Dallas minus Forte and with Bush at less than 100% is not a real happy one.  Depending on our passing offense to win that game is asking for disaster.

I understand your concern but now that we do have weapons on offense to improve our air game we'll have to utilize it in this game and if they're effective then our running attack with backups will be effective as well.   Look at it this way, we'll have to depend on our passing game at some point so might as well roll the dice and see how it goes.

I think IF we give J-Cut protection, he throws good passes, and the receivers don't drop easy passes then we'll win for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 12:39:13 pm
I think IF we give J-Cut protection, he throws good passes, and the receivers don't drop easy passes then we'll win for sure.

In other words... everything we couldn't do Sunday (against a Rams D that's not as good as the Cowboys). Good luck with that. 

I agree with you that we will have to rely on our air game at some point, but I would prefer that point be an afternoon game against an AFC team. Not against an NFC playoff contender in primetime (where our passing offense has imploded spectacularly several times the last few years).   

And hasn't Bell had some problems holding on to the football?  The way I see it, 1 turnover against the Cowboys will make it very hard for us to win, and if we turn it over twice or more it's a loss guaranteed.  Cutler will throw at least 1 INT Monday night so that uses up our quota...  no margin for fumbling.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 25, 2012, 12:50:57 pm
I would prefer it to be this Monday night.  I want to see an aggressive offense and not a passive one.  Seriously we gave up the farm to get Cutler so we can have an aggressive offense along with getting Marshall and Jeffrey as pieces doesn't make sense to me not to utilize them.

Grant it Marshall has had some huge drops (GB game for TD and one right in his hands last Sunday) and so did Jeffrey but NOT to use them as much as possible doesn't make sense to me.  I don't want other teams think we're scared to throw the ball.   Be aggressive!!!

 I for one hope this offense won't go ultra conservative against the Cowboys.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 12:59:48 pm
I for one hope this offense won't go ultra conservative against the Cowboys.

I agree but the Bears coaches are in a bit of a Catch-22 regarding our QB.

It is very clear by now that Cutler is feeling the heat of this year's heightened expectations.  In response to that, he's pressing...  to the tune of 6 INTs, picks thrown in 3 straight games and one of the worst passer ratings in the league.  The coaches may want (or be forced to) take the handcuffs off him Monday night and if he gets his mojo back, that's the right call.  But it could also very well happen that he sh*ts the bed again in primetime for the 2nd time in 4 games. If that happens, it's going to get incredibly ugly in the media and at that point you have to start wondering about the morale in the lockerroom as well. 

On one hand the coaches want (and possibly even need) to give him a visible vote of confidence...  OTOH by doing that they may just give him enough rope to hang himself.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 25, 2012, 01:06:08 pm
Boy I hope Cutler's thumb is ok, and he can throw the ball like normal. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 01:17:02 pm
Lovie's M.O. would be to put Cutler out there even with a bum thumb and let him throw 4 more INTs rather than sit him and put in a healthy Jason Campbell (who Emery acquired for just those situations).

And then Lovie wouldn't even man up about it afterwards, even to explain that Cutler was playing hurt.  He'd just let Cutler take all the heat.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 25, 2012, 01:33:58 pm
we need to get Webb lots and lots of game tape of the Packers so he can learn to hold like their LT does :-)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 01:36:13 pm
You have to get your hands on someone before you can hold 'em, though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on September 25, 2012, 01:48:46 pm
I don't think this offense knows WHAT its going to do against the Cowboys....

It has no identity except that it has no identity.....

I think the O is still feeling its way as to what it can do. They better figure it out, pronto or its another season home from the playoffs despite the D playing like its hair is on fire.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 01:58:03 pm
If we miss the playoffs again this year I will be fully in favor of launching the entire coaching staff.

The lack-of-talent excuse doesn't play anymore.  In one offseason Emery has put together a roster that is stronger top to bottom than any squad we had the entire time Angelo was at the helm.  And yes that includes the SuperBowl team that lost to Indy (though I will concede that the OL on that SuperBowl Bears team was better than this year's OL by a mile).  There are too many good-to-great players on the roster now for this team not to make the playoffs and make some noise once we get there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 25, 2012, 05:08:24 pm
I don't think anyone is advocating an ultra conservative offense nor 3 runs and a cloud of dust.  Bears just have to be able to be balanced, not bail out on the run, try to develop a short passing game, use more play action and continue to throw a deep one now and then.

And let's try to get Davis and Bennett more involved in the offense.

Cowboys have one elite pass rusher....Ware....Spencer is OK but the rest are nothing special.  But their corners are very good - we'll have to see who they put out there at safety - they're really banged up.

What will work against the Bears will be the dome - maybe Jerry will open the roof as I expect the temp to come down after the weekend.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 25, 2012, 05:58:17 pm
I think we are asking for a loss if we want a wide open passing game from Cutler Monday. I dont believe that Oline can give Cutler the time for such an offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 25, 2012, 07:30:41 pm
Interesting....Ryan Grant got a call while in the Bears locker room after trying out that the Redskins made him an offer, which he accepted.  I have a feeling Forte is NOT going to play on Monday, or maybe for a couple more weeks.  Or Bush for that matter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 25, 2012, 09:38:36 pm
The Bears should beat the Cowboys but with these officials don't bet on anything.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 09:42:58 pm
If all we have to put up against the Dallas D is Bell, Allen and our pass game... we're in trouble.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 25, 2012, 09:56:15 pm
No joke
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 25, 2012, 09:58:04 pm
Is that dope smoker Rashan Salam still available? ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 25, 2012, 10:01:53 pm
So how long is Forte supposed to be out? I thought the ankle wasn't that bad. That's what Lovie dovie said.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 25, 2012, 11:04:09 pm
Wouldnt surprise me if Forte doesnt suit up again till after the bye week.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on September 26, 2012, 05:25:22 am
Yeah, I recall the drive thru beer barns - when it was OK to have an open container as long as just the passengers were drinking!

Dallas - I believe in Tennessee the passenger can have an open container, 46???
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on September 26, 2012, 07:07:40 am
True
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 26, 2012, 07:12:00 am
Well lets hope Dr. Lovie doesnt pull a Carimi with Matt Forte's injury.  Just saying. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 26, 2012, 08:01:17 am
That's really weird how that whole Ryan Grant thing went down.  I mean, he's sitting there in the Bears lockerroom, gets a call from the Skins and basically just gets up and says "thanks, seeya". 

But then it's the Bears so anything can happen I guess.

That being said...  the fact we were even looking at him tells me something's not right with Bush and Emery/coaches don't trust Kahlil Bell to be the go-to guy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on September 26, 2012, 08:42:39 am
Can you blame Ryan Grant?  Take the Bears gig for maybe a week or two until Bush and Forte are healthy or take the Skins gig where he has a possibility of starting for the rest of the year is he can still run the ball?

Easy choice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on September 26, 2012, 08:51:46 am
Griz - yep, but from what I've heard, you really don't want to. Not worth it, you still get the test, out of the car, blah,blah,blah. I'm tempted, I've seen guys buy a double deuce for the home drive, but....nah.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 26, 2012, 08:52:13 am
No, can't blame him at all.  I'm kind of surprised he was on the market as long as he was, actually.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 26, 2012, 09:30:04 am

But CBS Sports reported Forte is likely to miss one more week and fullback Evan Rodriguez is out a week or two with an MCL sprain in his left knee.


Guess we'll have to wait for the daily practice reports to get more info on the status Busch, Forte and Rodriguez.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 26, 2012, 09:40:15 am
Rodriguez is hurt too?  Wow.

That went even more under the radar than the Forte and Bush things.

Feels like we're bringing a pocketknife to a gunfight as far as our offense goes right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 26, 2012, 09:57:17 am
And of course Lovie is keeping the news on the injuries in his back pocket. Cutler must be injured too as badly as he has played
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on September 26, 2012, 11:44:01 am
looks like a zebra agreement is close.  the downside of this is that the bears will start getting their regular quota of asinine calls going against them and the puke will start getting the little ticky-tack calls in their favor again.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/26/game-deciding-blown-call-was-what-it-took-to-spur-an-agreement/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/26/game-deciding-blown-call-was-what-it-took-to-spur-an-agreement/)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 26, 2012, 11:47:23 am
Regular refs returning should mean more offensive holding being called.

Good news for our DL, not so much for our OL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 26, 2012, 12:09:37 pm
They hold Pepers all the time and its not called
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 26, 2012, 12:15:18 pm
Interesting article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4678494/hot-button-is-cutler-better-than-romo

I would say Cutler has done more with less (in terms of surrounding talent) during his time in Chicago than Romo has in Dallas. In fact on that point it's not even close.

OTOH Cutler's proclivity to completely melt down in high-profile games against top-tier teams is beyond the "coincidence" phase and now pretty much a pattern. The Thursday night shi-bacle against a mediocre Packers D being only the latest installment. Frankly, Cutler is not a guy I trust any longer with a huge, win-or-go-home game on the line.

I'd still give the edge to Cutler over Romo, but until and unless he can get the primetime / playoff choke monkey off his back, a slight edge is the most he gets.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 26, 2012, 12:43:53 pm
Cutle? Romo?  Who is better?  I say...Who cares?

The questions monday will be:  is  Cutler and his offense better than the Cowboys defense and is Romo and his offense better than our defense?

Cutler could be facing 2 fine cover CBs (although one might be playing safety) and arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL.  Cowboys d-line is banged up and their run defense is OK - led by future pro bowler MLB Sean Lee.

Romo faces a defense leading the league in sacks and a CB who is leading the NFL in picks.  Bears run defense is again strong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 26, 2012, 01:05:09 pm
Jay Cutler game by game in all primetime / playoff games as a Bear:

2009

Primetime, vs Green Bay (road) – L 21-15, 1 TD / 4 INT
Primetime, vs. Atlanta (road) – L 21-14, 2 TD / 2 INT
Primetime, vs. San Fran (road) – L 10-6, 0 TD / 5 INT
Primetime, vs. Philadelphia (home) – L 24-20, 1 TD / 1 INT
Primetime, vs. Minnesota (home) – W 36-30, 4 TD / 1 INT
No playoff games

2009 Totals:  1-4 record, 8 TD / 13 INT

2010
Primetime, vs. Green Bay (home) – W 20-17, 1 TD / 1 INT
Primetime, vs. NY Giants (road) – L 17-3, 0 TD / 1 INT    (Did Not Finish – concussion)
Primetime, vs. Miami (road) – W 16-0, 0 TD / 1 INT
Primetime, vs. Minnesota (road) – W 40-14, 3 TD / 1 INT
Playoff, vs. Seattle (home) – W 35-24, 2 TD / 0 INT
Playoff, vs. Green Bay (home) – L 21-14  0 TD / 1 INT    (Did Not Finish – knee)

2010 Totals:  4-2 record, 6 TD / 5 INT

2011
Primetime, vs. Detroit (road) – L 24-13, 1 TD / 0 INT
Primetime, vs. Minnesota (home) – W 39-10, 2 TD / 0 INT
Primetime, vs. Philadelphia (road) – W 30-24, 2 TD / 0 INT
No playoff games

2011 Totals:  2-1 record, 5 TD / 0 INT

2012
Primetime, vs. Green Bay (road) – L 23-10, 1 TD / 4 INT

Bear Career Totals: 7-8, 20 TD / 22 INT
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 26, 2012, 01:25:55 pm
Not a starter, but a big-bodied OT is on the market...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/26/raiders-dump-another-third-round-pick/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 26, 2012, 01:28:03 pm
Jay Cutler game by game in all primetime / playoff games as a Bear:

Primetime games are determined the season before.  A better indicator would be Cutler's record vs above .500 teams.

I'd expect about the same results at or near .500.    Also, besides Forte over that time period how many of the Bears O-line and receivers would you consider at or near pro-bowl quality - or even just average?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 26, 2012, 01:37:00 pm
it would be interesting to see an analysis of when he was in Denver with an NFL quality line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 26, 2012, 05:32:35 pm

from the trib:

Chicago Bears running back Matt Forte returned to practice Wednesday for the first time since spraining his right ankle against the Green Bay Packers on Sept. 13 and said he thinks he will be able to play Monday night at Dallas.

"As long as you know how to take care of your body, that's how you get back on the field," Forte said. "I've had ankle injuries before and I know how to work with them. You have to want to get back on the field."

Asked point-blank if he'd be ready to go Monday, Forte said, "Yeah."
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 26, 2012, 07:15:51 pm
That will be a huge bonus if he can go.

Even if he's not 100% he still represents an option the D has to account for.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 26, 2012, 10:35:10 pm
I'd split time with him and Bell, easing Forte back in. We need him for the entire season, not one game alone. And Cut better watch it. He was supposed to be "The Saviour" and take us to the top. If he underperforms when it matters most, he could be in danger of losing his job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 26, 2012, 11:20:45 pm

 @ DALLAS

 Defines us for one week.

 The last I heard there are 12 more games to be played.

 NYG's ... 9-7 ... SUPERBOWL winners.

 Anything is possible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 27, 2012, 12:30:24 am

A win on Monday and watch the Bears rise in the NFL rankings!

Oh boy!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 27, 2012, 12:33:53 am
Pack will lose, Bears win and they'll STILL be ahead of us in the rankings......they sure didn't give the Queenies any love for being 2-1 and whipping up on the 9ers....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 27, 2012, 01:57:57 am

 REFS are back in town.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 27, 2012, 07:56:57 am
I see the Cowboys taking the Bears something like 19-13 in a game where both teams (especially on offense) will look worse than their talent should indicate.

The Bears will continue to struggle on offense, and the inability to sustain drives, combined with turnovers by Cutler & Co. will negate another great effort by our D.  I see Romo sucking a little less than Cutler in this matchup of QBs who tend to play small in high-profile games. I could very easily see this being a game where we have the ball at the end with a chance for a game-winning drive and for one reason or another just can't get it done.

On the plus side, this may be one of the few games this year where we actually have the edge in coaching.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 27, 2012, 07:58:34 am
Not a starter, but a big-bodied OT is on the market...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/26/raiders-dump-another-third-round-pick/

But he isnt much better than Webb with his feet of concrete
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 27, 2012, 09:47:38 am
A concern about Forte rushing back, especially playing on turf in Dal.  I hope he is fully healed and doesnt agrivate something worse.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 27, 2012, 10:00:33 am
Best case scenario, our air attack catches fire, we put up a lot of points early and Forte can sit out the 2nd half.

I don't see that happening against Ware and the Cowboys' very good CBs, but it would be great if it did.

Has anyone heard anything at all about what's up with Bush?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on September 27, 2012, 11:21:47 am
I like Bush
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 27, 2012, 11:46:42 am
Can Bush run for President again?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 27, 2012, 11:54:18 am
I like Bush

Me too!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 27, 2012, 11:59:02 am
I think Lovie was probably upset that Forte is giving signals that he's ready to go.  Lovie doesn't like the opposing team to know injury status' before it has to be divulged.

Unlike Cutler, Romo is not having accuracy issues.  His problems are primarily pressure related.   If Bears can not take advantage of this potential mismatch it will be difficult for offense to keep up with the Cowboys. 

But having a healthy Forte will be huge - all the off-season talk was about Cutler, and Marshall, and Jeffrey etc but the Bears offense goes through Forte.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on September 27, 2012, 12:03:58 pm
23-20 Bears
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 27, 2012, 12:06:18 pm
IMO the X factor as far as the Cowboys offense goes is TE Jason Witten.  He's a former Pro Bowler who has gotten off to a slow start this season.  If he picks Monday night to get untracked, our D will have a much tougher job.

Jermichael Finlay is the closest the Bears D has seen to a premier TE this season so I hope Marinelli & Co. have a plan in case Witten steps up his game against us. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 27, 2012, 12:09:12 pm
23-20 Bears

If the Bears win that's the type of score I would envision.  If it turns into a track meet, we're toast.

I would be surprised to see more than 3 TDs scored by both teams combined Monday night, so if that's how it plays out I think we've got a shot PROVIDED our offense takes care of the ball and we can dominate TOP (which is not always easily done with Lovie's defensive scheme). 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 27, 2012, 03:42:02 pm
Apparently Bush has a shoulder to go with Forte's ankle.

So between them we've still got one decent RB.

 :-\
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 27, 2012, 03:55:52 pm

Haven't seen the injury reports but Bears could use RB by committee with Forte, Bush and Bell.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 27, 2012, 10:59:17 pm

 AIRBALL !

 We have it ... we know it has to gell ...

 when do we turn it loose?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 28, 2012, 12:40:03 am
The Bears really need to get it together. They've had one good week and two mediocre ones. The D stood up last week and did their part. The O did their part week one. This week we'll either get BOTH doing well or BOTH sucking and I'm leaning towards the latter, unfortunately. Playing in Dallas in that freaking huge stadium is going to shake, rattle and roll the Oline. Gonna be multitudes of false starts, holdings, etc. Ware is gonna tear Webb to shreds, not gonna be even close. IF IF IF Tice can do things right, i.e. quick counts, quick plays like the Pack did second half their last game, Bears have a shot. I really wish we had a staff that had it together, knew what to do in situations where things weren't working right and were able to make adjustments on the fly, or heck even at halftime would be nice. We know Ware is going to kill Webb. So having help on that side and the stuff I mentioned previous is what they need to do to get the O clicking. Make Cutler hold the ball and we're DOA. IF Forte plays and does well, we've got a shot. There's just too many IF's for my liking.......Cowpies 30 Bears 17
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on September 28, 2012, 07:53:43 am
Why would you say the D didn't do well against the Pack giving up only 16 points.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 08:00:19 am
Sportster, you hit it on the head as far as coaching.

One thing Lovie and his staff are consistent in is that they are very slow to learn from mistakes.  In terms of our offense, just about everything that could go wrong against Green Bay, did go wrong yet somehow I get the feeling we'll be seeing more of the same Monday night.  Whereas other coaching staffs seem to be able to adjust over the course of a couple of quarters (or at the most a game or two), it routinely takes us half the season to figure out what's working and chuck what's not.  End result, we tally up early season losses that could/should have been wins and ultimately cost us when it comes to playoff seeding (or keep us out of the postseason altogether).

But on a positive note, the Cowboys coaches are no great shakes either...  that team has been underperforming its talent level for years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 28, 2012, 09:21:30 am

No big secret to winning this game - Cutler has to avoid turnovers and somebody besides Marshall has to step up on offense.  Forte, Jeffrey or Bennett or just maybe Hester breaks out.

Hester has 2 catches for the year - both were in week 1 and one of those was for negative yardage.  Can the Bears figure out how to get this guy the ball?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: JeffH on September 28, 2012, 09:22:10 am
Cowboys 44, Bears 9
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 09:37:53 am
All the preseason happy talk about Hester as a WR notwithstanding, his offensive plays so far this year have pretty much been wasted downs.

If we can't figure out -- SOON -- a way for him to contribute when he's on the field on offense, then it's time to sit him down, give those reps to Jeffery / Bennett (or Weems if downfield speed is the need), and hope Hester can get his mojo back on returns and start earning his keep that way. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 28, 2012, 10:02:01 am
AIRBALL !

 We have it ... we know it has to gell ...

 when do we turn it loose?

Hopefully not this game. Why? Because there will be numerous turnovers. Interceptions? Absolutely, and we cant beat the Cowgirls if we turn the ball over. So maybe you need to recind your "turn it loose" request if you desire a Bear win.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 28, 2012, 10:05:35 am
On the radio this morning they said Bennet has a hurt hand.  Great, just what our most sure handed WR needs, a bad hand. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 10:14:09 am
Not that I want us to be throwing the ball a lot.  But if we have to, then this is a game where it would be great if Alshon Jeffery could really step up. 

He looked like a ROY lock in that first game...  since then...  crickets. Had a drop or two vs. the Rams too IIRC.

He would have played against the Cowboys stud rookie CB (Claiborne) in college so hopefully he has some insights on how to beat him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 28, 2012, 10:18:44 am

Bennett has better HAND then Marshall, Hester and Jeffery's HANDS.

As for Jeffery, he had the one drop that I can remember on that long pass down the middle, but it was in traffic so his hand or arm may have been hit.  He actually did well against the Rams with 4 of those little hook routes that kept the chains moving.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 10:26:23 am
Jeffery was renowned for his good hands in college so I suspect as he acclimates to the NFL game we won't be seeing too many more drops from him.  Marshall OTOH, who knows? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 28, 2012, 10:29:47 am
I think Marshall has always been one that has some drops. The problem is the reward outweighs the risk.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 10:42:49 am
Yeah, you combine Marshall and Cutler and you've got two guys that can run blazing hot (Indy) or ice cold (GB) on any given Sunday.

Risk to reward, big-time.

I do notice that after the GB shi-bacle they have both kept their mouths shut regarding upcoming opponents so hopefully that was one lesson learned, anyway.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 28, 2012, 10:55:47 am

I was a little surprised that Cutler (I don't know Marshall) would be talking trash before a game.

The Dallas papers are really concerned with the Bears pass rush - Cutler and Marshall not so much.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 12:05:09 pm
I know that the Cowboys LT (Tyron Smith) is considered a future Pro Bowler.  He's not the biggest LT out there (6'5 308) and he's only 21 years old... but he's one of the Cowboy's better draft picks of the past few years.  He is extraordinarily athletic and it wouldn't surprise me if he keeps Peppers largely in check. Doug Free on the other side comes with a lot more questions and hopefully McClellin / Izzy / Wooten can make some hay against him.

I really don't know anything about their interior 3.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 28, 2012, 12:06:36 pm
I'd love to see what Cutler/Marshall can do with a legit LT  and a decent line...
Oh, that is right they did pretty good in Denver a few years ago....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 12:10:36 pm
I'd love to see what Cutler/Marshall can do with a legit LT  and a decent line...

Unfortunately I'm not sure us Bears fans will ever find that out.

It will take 2 years for Emery to get the OL talent up to snuff and by that time Cutler and Marshall will be past their prime and/or be playing someplace else.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on September 28, 2012, 12:19:44 pm
why is it we can't seem to get a franchise QB,LT and DE all at the same time?
Marshall is nice but I think I would much rather have gotten Jake Long from MIA.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 12:56:32 pm
Miami wanted to get rid of Marshall.  They knew they were gonna be drafting a QB and they were worried Marshall would be putting the kid under too much pressure.

For the exact same reason (rookie QB) is why they would never have gotten rid of Long.  Not even for much more in picks than we gave for Marshall.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 28, 2012, 01:32:46 pm
I know that the Cowboys LT (Tyron Smith) is considered a future Pro Bowler.  He's not the biggest LT out there (6'5 308) and he's only 21 years old... but he's one of the Cowboy's better draft picks of the past few years.  He is extraordinarily athletic and it wouldn't surprise me if he keeps Peppers largely in check. Doug Free on the other side comes with a lot more questions and hopefully McClellin / Izzy / Wooten can make some hay against him.

I really don't know anything about their interior 3.


Their OTs aren't doing that bad - Free has given up ONE sack and Smith none.  They've had quite a few penalties though - mostly false starts but Free has a couple holds too.  They have played some very good front fours though in Giants, Seahawks (both on the road) and the Bucs.  Free is the guy getting most of the bad pub.

They're real weakness is inside.  They have a backup center and their 2 FA guards apparently aren't doing the job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 28, 2012, 01:36:26 pm

I'd love to see what Cutler/Marshall can do with a legit LT  and a decent line...


Cutler wasn't under that much pressure against the Rams and there were plenty of opportunities for him to make plays and he flat out didn't.  Part of the reason was that Cutler was not very accurate and the receivers were also dropping or deflecting quite a few balls.

We all like to dog pile on Webb, but last Sunday's game he pretty much held his own and was not the reason for the offense' woes.

Now Monday night it might be a different story going against Ware.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 01:36:58 pm
They're real weakness is inside.  They have a backup center and their 2 FA guards apparently aren't doing the job.

Might be a good move to have Peppers play some DT Monday night, then.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on September 28, 2012, 04:32:33 pm
Going back to our OL...  someone on another board said Jake Long is a FA after this season.

If that's true then everything changes.  We don't have to give up draft picks, Hester or anything. All we have to do is open up the checkbook, outbid the Dolphins and hope Long wants to jump ship.

Our odds in that scenario would improve dramatically if the Bears have a very good 2012 season and the Fins have a very bad one.  The question then is whether we could get a franchise LT's salary in under the cap at the same time Cutler presumably will be angling for a new, big money extension of his own.

Even if we swung that I'm not so sure I still wouldn't hedge our bets by taking the best available OL with our 1st round pick besides.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 28, 2012, 06:22:21 pm
But why not trade for him so when he is a FA he might be inclined to stay. I'd trade Hester even up for him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 28, 2012, 07:17:30 pm
If he is a FA cant they slap the Franchise tag on him? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 28, 2012, 07:37:51 pm
Good point. So we still need to trade for him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 28, 2012, 10:17:42 pm

 No one is going to give us anything for Hester. What has he done so far?

 Getting Jake Long is going to be like geting Peppers.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 28, 2012, 10:26:29 pm
Couple things need to happen to get this team where it needs to be....we ALL (except those at Halas) know we need lots of help on the Oline. Now, if we start blowing chunks and tank it this season, then Lovie and crew are most probably done for. This will bring the needed change to the line that we have been begging for. OR... we do alright and then it's totally up to Emery NEXT season to get us some line help. If that doesn't happen....boy, there are gonna be some Bear fans with torches and pitch forks on Halas Hall's lawn!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 28, 2012, 11:41:39 pm
Couple things need to happen to get this team where it needs to be....we ALL (except those at Halas) know we need lots of help on the Oline. Now, if we start blowing chunks and tank it this season, then Lovie and crew are most probably done for. This will bring the needed change to the line that we have been begging for. OR... we do alright and then it's totally up to Emery NEXT season to get us some line help. If that doesn't happen....boy, there are gonna be some Bear fans with torches and pitch forks on Halas Hall's lawn!!!

 The crazy thing is they did not add ONE OL to the draft.

 We are watching and going ... OK any minute now in the draft they are going OL ...

 THIRD ROUND !

 Instead we got guys who have been cut.  ???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 29, 2012, 12:52:15 am
I have a car.....I take care of my car....change its oil.....wipers......trans fluid.....check brakes. I don't change tires, and the tires wear out, how far will my car go, however nice-fancy-fast it may be, if I don't put new tires on it every so often? The Oline are the tires and the Bears staff are running on flats with a high performance machine.....hopefully we won't hear/see/experience more 'thump, thump, THUMPING' Monday night!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on September 29, 2012, 08:26:00 am
Nice analogy Sporty, I like that
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on September 29, 2012, 12:30:53 pm

So would we be better off with a nice set of Michelin's with an engine from a Volkswagen Beetle?

Bears traded two first round draft choices for Cutler...and a 3rd....also traded a high 3rd rounder for Marshall.  I liked the trades but the recent makeup of this team is from mid round picks and free agents.

How many starters do we have over the last 5 years from rounds 1 and 2?  Forte....and most recently Paea. 

That's it boys and girls.  TWO starters!

Bears have addressed the O-line with TWO first round picks ..one of those unfortunately is on the bench.

Angelo's drafts put us in this position and we've been able to get by because we had talent from the early 2000s and had better luck at other spots with FAs and mid round picks.  That strategy just hasn't been as successful in the O-line.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on September 29, 2012, 06:40:23 pm
Angie helped kill this team for sure. But there's zero excuse for Emery not getting some help this past draft. We did not need another hurt safety and that's pretty obvious right now. We could definately have used a Tackle or guard at that spot. NO excuses....whatsoever.....they also have FA to get help in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on September 29, 2012, 06:41:15 pm
I have a car.....I take care of my car....change its oil.....wipers......trans fluid.....check brakes. I don't change tires, and the tires wear out, how far will my car go, however nice-fancy-fast it may be, if I don't put new tires on it every so often? The Oline are the tires and the Bears staff are running on flats with a high performance machine.....hopefully we won't hear/see/experience more 'thump, thump, THUMPING' Monday night!

Reminds me of Sherman's career in GB.  Same problems.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on September 29, 2012, 08:03:06 pm
Angie helped kill this team for sure. But there's zero excuse for Emery not getting some help this past draft. We did not need another hurt safety and that's pretty obvious right now. We could definately have used a Tackle or guard at that spot. NO excuses....whatsoever.....they also have FA to get help in.

While I totally agree that we desperatley need help on the OL, I dont think our S position is totally settled either.  Conte was hurt last year, as has been Wright, and Wright also seems to have some mental lapses.  S is far from the strongest position on the team.  HOWEVER taking a guy who was hurt all of last year and didnt play, no excuse for that move. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on September 30, 2012, 01:11:19 am
While I totally agree that we desperatley need help on the OL,  I dont think our S position is totally settled either.  Conte was hurt last year, as has been Wright, and Wright also seems to have some mental lapses.  S is far from the strongest position on the team.  HOWEVER taking a guy who was hurt all of last year and didnt play, no excuse for that move. 

 You said it I didnt.

 DEFENSE is useless without keeping Cutler upright.

 DEFENSE getting gassed at the end of the second quarter,

 because Cutler is getting ambushed because of his,

 OFFENSIVE LINE keeping him OFF the field,

 is not a crime ... it's a SIN.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 01, 2012, 01:13:09 am
Those weren't Earthquakes in Dallas last night, that was the arrival of DA BEARRRRSSSE   in town!!!
GO BEARS!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 01, 2012, 01:23:20 am
(http://www.cubbytees.com/ShirtPieces/Keep_Calm_Bear_Down--ZM--ORG.jpg)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on October 01, 2012, 12:58:10 pm
It might shock fans, but Lovie’s Bears are strong on ‘Monday Night Football


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/15459958-606/it-might-shock-fans-but-lovies-bears-are-strong-on-monday-night-football.html
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 01, 2012, 01:16:24 pm
OK, so it's only Sunday nights and Thursday nights the Bears sh*t the bed, then.

 :-\
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on October 01, 2012, 01:25:09 pm
Didn't they beat the Vikings last year at home on a Sunday night?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on October 02, 2012, 01:26:30 am
I also remember a freezing cold Sunday night game the Bears killed the Eagles in when they had no chance to beat McNabb and Co.

I remember it because we were coming back from a Dallas Redskins game and stopped at the strip club on the way home.  I was the DD and spent more time watching that game then the **** bouncing on stage.  The strip club is a totally different experience when you are the DD.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 02, 2012, 08:25:58 am
That selection of Alshon Jeffery is looking smarter by the game.

Having him last night allowed us to absorb the loss of Earl Bennett without our passing game missing a beat.  He didn't log huge numbers but he made a number of clutch catches that kept the chains moving... which is exactly what Bennett's role would be if he were in there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 02, 2012, 11:03:50 am
Uh-oh...  this doesn't sound good.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/02/ex-bear-tommie-harris-arrested-in-chicago/

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on October 02, 2012, 11:51:46 am
That selection of Alshon Jeffery is looking smarter by the game.

Having him last night allowed us to absorb the loss of Earl Bennett without our passing game missing a beat.  He didn't log huge numbers but he made a number of clutch catches that kept the chains moving... which is exactly what Bennett's role would be if he were in there.

Alshon had 3 catches I think but he needs to learn how to secure the ball.  That last catch was almost a fumble because of him carrying the ball like a loaf of bread.  I think Cutler stopped going to him after that play.

I like the selection too and he can only get better.  Damn I wish Knox was healthy.  This offense would be damn scary with him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 02, 2012, 11:56:25 am
It's got to be hard on Knox too...  recognizing what he could be doing in this offense with Marshall and the others open things up for him. 

OTOH if Knox hadn't gotten hurt maybe we wouldn't have signed Marshall and/or drafted Jeffery...  so it's impossible to know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 02, 2012, 01:00:08 pm
No big secret to winning this game - Cutler has to avoid turnovers and somebody besides Marshall has to step up on offense.  Forte, Jeffrey or Bennett or just maybe Hester breaks out.

Hester has 2 catches for the year - both were in week 1 and one of those was for negative yardage.  Can the Bears figure out how to get this guy the ball?


The answer to that question is YES - props to Hester.   They don't have to make him the focus of the offense or even start him.  Just give him a few plays DOWN the field - those reverses and screens to him rarely work.

As for Knox, I'd love to have him back THIS year.  He still has about 3 more weeks on the PUP list then they can put him on IR.  Not sure what the plan is with him this or next year.  But if the injury was that serious I think they'd just cut him loose.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 02, 2012, 01:22:24 pm
I would be surprised if Knox can even jog at this point... much less play at anything close to competitive football speed.

Also, Knox was never the biggest of guys to begin with (and lost a bunch of weight after his surgery)...  so without his speed he's really not a factor on the field and in fact would be a liability.  So he's facing some real formidable odds to ever even get back on the field again, much less be a focal point of the offense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 02, 2012, 03:54:57 pm
Knox on the field with Marshall and Jeffrey would be interesting. A WR that is likely as fast or faster than Hester.
I still can't figure out why Hester isn't more productive. I'm thinking he should be similar Steve Smith (CAR) with his athleticism.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 02, 2012, 04:51:50 pm

Hester's strength is his ability to improvise on the run - for the most part wide receivers are required to run disciplined routes with some improvisation based on the coverage.  May not be Hester's strengths.

For as much crap as I pile on him - he's really improved his kickoff returns this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on October 03, 2012, 04:07:42 pm
amen.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Cheat-Sheet-Week-5-Philadelphia-Eagles-Pittsburgh-Steelers-100212
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: AZSteve on October 04, 2012, 10:41:40 am
good one 46....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 04, 2012, 11:14:31 am
Looks like the Patriots' winning ways with personnel continue...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/04/chandler-jones-wins-nfl-defensive-rookie-of-the-month/

This was a guy some had going to the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 04, 2012, 11:18:09 am
Bears OL better have their poop in a group before we face this guy:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/04/j-j-watt-wins-afc-defensive-player-of-month/

20 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 2 fumbles recovered and 5 passes batted down in one month.  Pure beast. But gotta wonder if he and Clay Matthews are sharing the same "special sauce."
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 04, 2012, 11:40:45 am

And who is NFC defensive player of the month?   

Our own Tim Jennings.  4 INTs plus a couple of his PDs led to Bears interceptions.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 04, 2012, 11:50:03 am
Good for Jennings, and well deserved.  Hadn't seen that news come across yet.

I also suspect that if we can get our pass protection up to snuff, Alshon Jeffery will be snagging an Offensive Rookie of the Month win before this season is out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 04, 2012, 02:05:39 pm

...and to think I was hoping Hayden would beat out Jennings for his CB spot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 04, 2012, 02:44:52 pm
Me too. I remember wondering on this very board why we had even brought Jennings back this year.  And there was a LOT of chatter before the draft about the Bears possibly going CB with their 1st round pick.

Props to Emery for making the right call on him.  Reportedly Jennings worked his azz off this past offseason to improve various aspects of his game (particularly his hands), so it's great to see that paying off.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 04, 2012, 02:49:34 pm
Pompeii breaks down Webb's outing vs. Dallas:

J'Marcus Webb did OK against DeMarcus Ware in Dallas Monday. This is why:

Not counting screens, rollouts, play-action fakes or three-step drops with quick throws, Jay Cutler had 17 dropbacks. Ware either dropped into coverage or lined up on the other side of the formation on five of those plays, so he had only 12 prime sack opportunities. On those plays, Webb had help from a back or tight end six times, and he was alone six times. Of the times Webb was alone, Ware had one sack — which was Cutler's fault because he held the ball for 3.8 seconds — and one pressure. Ware forced another sack in the fourth quarter on a play-action fake. He flew past Webb and forced Cutler to step up into Josh Brent.

 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 04, 2012, 04:04:08 pm
Not counting screens, rollouts, play-action fakes or three-step drops with quick throws, Jay Cutler had 17 dropbacks. Ware either dropped into coverage or lined up on the other side of the formation on five of those plays, so he had only 12 prime sack opportunities. On those plays, Webb had help from a back or tight end six times, and he was alone six times. Of the times Webb was alone, Ware had one sack — which was Cutler's fault because he held the ball for 3.8 seconds — and one pressure. Ware forced another sack in the fourth quarter on a play-action fake. He flew past Webb and forced Cutler to step up into Josh Brent.
 


So we're going to discount the 9 other drop backs because no QB has ever been sacked on a rollout, screen, 3 step drops or play action passes?  And of course the 5 times he was lined up against somebody not named Ware - doesn't count.

Tice is learning that he has to balance the run/pass, mix in a few deep balls with a lot of quick throws with some play action and roll outs, and occasionally help out Webb against the elite pass rushers in the league and his offense will have a chance of being pretty decent. 

20 points on the road against the #1 defense in the league is decent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 04, 2012, 04:29:40 pm
20 points on the road against the #1 defense in the league is decent.

Agreed, and especially with both of our offensive TDs coming by air where the Dallas D had (up till then) been exceptionally strong.

IIRC both of Cutler's TD throws came against Cowboys blitzes and that's what really did my heart good to see.  The more of those plays we can make, the less likely we are to see heavy blitzing down the line and that will make things easier on everyone but especially the OL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on October 04, 2012, 04:48:43 pm
Dallas, admit it, at least once Monday night you had a smug, alcohol fueled look on your face. I know I would have.  I was told it costs over 50 bucks just to park at that dump.  Lord have mercy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 04, 2012, 06:18:13 pm
Who's got the No.1 D??
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 04, 2012, 10:58:10 pm
After watching the Cardinals tonight I don't feel quite so bad about our OL.

That OL of the Cards is just ridiculously bad. I have no idea how any team could have gotten to 4-0 with such an atrocious front five.

It also made me feel better about passing on Bobby Massie in the draft.  He was the Cardinals' starting RT and he's terrible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 05, 2012, 12:01:48 am
I was told it costs over 50 bucks just to park at that dump.  Lord have mercy.

I heard $75.  We parked in a nearby strip mall parking lot about 3 or 4 blocks away but the driver had to buy something in one of the stores (he bought a Best Buy $20 gift card) and place the receipt on the dash or they'd have towed us.  Numerous restaurants also will shuttle you to the game if you spend X amount of dollars with them.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on October 05, 2012, 04:35:54 pm
http://boston.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/this-qb-facebook-spoof-thing-is-going-viral-right-now/

This is hilarious...a must read.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 05, 2012, 05:09:28 pm
Ah, definitely middle schoolers
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on October 06, 2012, 02:25:23 am

 When we use CHICAGO BEARS TIGHT ENDS ...

 we win.

 What was Mike Tice as a PRO player?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 06, 2012, 06:48:09 am
Tice was a corner.... ;)

TE's....we use them we win, huh. We forget they exist, we lose.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on October 06, 2012, 08:22:47 am
He was a nickel back...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on October 06, 2012, 11:28:37 am
Anyone else have the Bears ap on their phone? Lots of good clips, pre game analysis, stats etc.... Plus it's free..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 06, 2012, 11:41:15 am
APP!!! APP!! Oh....sorry....had a Wanny flashback there....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on October 06, 2012, 03:40:04 pm
Good one.  Is he finally out of coaching? To the betterment of all football?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 06, 2012, 04:17:12 pm
Last I knew he was coaching Pitt but that was awhile ago. Is he still there??
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on October 06, 2012, 04:39:56 pm
Saw him on TV the other day...he's the DC in Buffalo...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on October 06, 2012, 08:35:13 pm
Isn't Jauron the DC in Buf?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 06, 2012, 09:26:54 pm

Wanny is DC at Buffalo - Juaron is the DC for the Browns.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on October 06, 2012, 11:59:01 pm
Wanny is DC at Buffalo - Juaron is the DC for the Browns.

 Better them then us.  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on October 07, 2012, 07:47:32 am
Two of the worst teams in FB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 07, 2012, 08:19:28 am
Notre Dame pasted the Hurricanes in Soldiers last night 41-3. Word is, members of the Bears scouting dept were there. They got to see first hand what a REAL offensive line can do to a opponent. ND gashed the Canes for 376 yards rushing. Maybe the scouts will pass word that they need linemen......ha ha ha......hoping and praying.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on October 07, 2012, 11:22:22 am
Bradshaw dissing Cutler.. WTF??
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: otto105 on October 07, 2012, 11:52:27 am
The Cutter is jerk and just a .500 QB in the NFL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 08, 2012, 07:03:41 am
One thing I'm starting to see on this team is some swagger on D. They're starting to look at each other as playmakers and expect each other to make a impact play. Example: Jennings tipped a pass on the sidelines yesterday and I think it was Conte came flying in behind and almost got the int-it looked like a near impossible feat, but Jennings turned around and looked at Conte like 'hey, you left one there! What's up with that?'. Each week it's someone stepping up and making plays and it's happening all over the D. The last time I saw this with the Bears.....was 2006. A very good indicator indeed!!! We may have a very very special year in the making. We've got a better QB than then, a better RB tandem than then, better recievers I believe and I even think the D is a bit better. We'll see....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 08, 2012, 08:47:10 am
I think a couple things are really helping this year.
We have more above average guys to rotate in on the DL and it appears that Conte and Wright are coming into their own.
We're also staying pretty healthy so far.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 08:47:44 am
Gabe Carimi is starting to come under some heat in the media, which would square with what I saw yesterday.  There were the consecutive red zone penalties of course but a few other plays where his guy flat out beat him and/or pushed him straight back into the pocket.

One one hand, this was still only his 6th full game as an NFL player.  And it's pretty clear his knee and/or game conditioning is not back to 100%. But OTOH if he's still at this plateau at the end of the season I don't think it's beyond reason to think Emery may expand his draft wish list to include OTs on both sides.

OTs --gimme TWO!  (?)  We can really only spare one TE to help out in pass protection so at least one of our starting OTs needs to step it up and become a go-to guy in 1 on 1 situations.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 08:50:52 am
We're also staying pretty healthy so far.

On D we are.  Our skill guys (WRs and RBs) have been getting dinged a lot, though.

Initially I wasn't happy with the early bye but now it appears the timing is pretty good considering who's hurting at the moment.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 08, 2012, 10:43:31 am
I think one key area where we are weaker than in 06' is the Oline. That could be the one spot that kills our chances this year. It would help us tremendously if GB with Matthews was not in it this year. The Line struggles like mad to contain Matthews. He was one of the key reasons we lost to GB IMO. The guy just keeps coming, he nailed the RB from behind several times and we keep failing to address that. It's like there's a ravenous wolf out there and we just continue to ignore that fact he's there. IF we figure out to block him, keep an eye on him always, we've got a shot to beat them in Soldiers. If not, it's going to be 'here we go again' time....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 10:55:51 am
If we had that 2006 OL to go with Cutler and our current skill players, I seriously think we could run the table right through to the SuperBowl.

Unfortunately we're at least 4 players away from having an OL close to that unit.

< sigh >
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on October 08, 2012, 10:57:09 am
Haven't our oline been playing much much better so far after the debacle in Green Bay?  Don't give up on them yet.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 10:58:59 am
OL did better yesterday but also keep in mind the Jags D had all of 2 sacks for the season coming into that game.

What I did appreciate was the fact that not only didn't Cutler get sacked a half dozen times, he didn't take a lot of extraneous non-sack hits either.  I think that played a huge part in him being able to finish the game strong with those solid TD throws to Marshall and Jeffery.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 08, 2012, 10:59:36 am
Gabe Carimi is starting to come under some heat in the media, which would square with what I saw yesterday.  There were the consecutive red zone penalties of course but a few other plays where his guy flat out beat him and/or pushed him straight back into the pocket.

One one hand, this was still only his 6th full game as an NFL player.  And it's pretty clear his knee and/or game conditioning is not back to 100%. But OTOH if he's still at this plateau at the end of the season I don't think it's beyond reason to think Emery may expand his draft wish list to include OTs on both sides.

OTs --gimme TWO!  (?)  We can really only spare one TE to help out in pass protection so at least one of our starting OTs needs to step it up and become a go-to guy in 1 on 1 situations.

I was thinking the same thing about Carimi this morning, he hasnt played that many games yet, but boy it sure looked like his head was not in the f'n game yesterday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on October 08, 2012, 11:00:15 am
How do you feel they did in Dallas and against the Rams?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 11:01:45 am
Honestly I was wondering if Carimi might have been out of sorts from fasting for Yom Kippur or something.  But that was back at the end of September already so I doubt that had anything to do with it.

Hoping it was just a bad game for him and he can get back on track vs. the Lions in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 11:05:29 am
Thot the OL looked pretty good against Dallas.

I didn't see any of the Rams game.  But I did see the Rams against the Cardinals last Thursday night and I'll tell you, anyone who thinks the Bears OL is bad needs to watch a Cardinals game.  Those guys are putrid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 08, 2012, 11:17:27 am

Wow - folks complaining about our offensive tackle play and no mention of J'Marcus Webb.  You know him, the worst offensive lineman in the NFL.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 11:29:38 am
Don't think that Emery isn't keeping one eye on the Bears game films and the other eye on the premier college OTs. Season is still young but fact of the matter is that both of our OTs need to play CONSISTENTLY better.

If/when that happens, this offense could really take off. 

Other than the Garza grounder on the shotgun snap, I thought the interior 3 did especially well yesterday, giving Cutler room to step up into the pocket on numerous occasions.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 08, 2012, 12:04:17 pm
Don't think that Emery isn't keeping one eye on the Bears game films and the other eye on the premier college OTs. Season is still young but fact of the matter is that both of our OTs need to play CONSISTENTLY better.


That's his job.  Both of our OTs are young - let's wait until after the season until we replace them.  As for Carimi, he struggled but as long as its not a trend and I don't think it has been, he's allowed a mediocre game now and then.

I thought the interior 3 did especially well yesterday, giving Cutler room to step up into the pocket on numerous occasions.

Just our interior 3? 

Webb played almost a flawless game - he doesn't very often but he did Sunday.  And I don't think either of the DEs (Mincey and Branch) he faced even recorded a tackle.  And BTW, wasn't Mincey the guy we offered a huge FA deal in the offseason - glad he turned us down.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 12:10:42 pm
Even if Tice had wanted to pull Carimi I'm not sure who would have played in his place cause Chris Williams was inactive again yesterday.

Hope CW banked a few of those millions from his rookie contract....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 12:16:44 pm
Still waiting for news on Jeffery...

Anyone got anything?
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on October 08, 2012, 01:22:07 pm
The Cutter is jerk and just a .500 QB in the NFL.
Rodgers is 2-3. What does that make him?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 08, 2012, 01:27:39 pm
Alshon to get X rays today.  I would have thought that would have happened yesterday...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on October 08, 2012, 01:36:12 pm
Sometimes ya gotta wait for the swelling to subside a bit
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 08, 2012, 02:33:08 pm
I thought you had to wait for swelling to go down for an MRI.  Xrays just show broken bones. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 02:43:20 pm
One story said he was getting an MRI and another said X-Rays.  Don't know which is correct, or both.

IIRC most NFL lockerrooms have X-Ray machines in them so if that were the case they could have done that on site yesterday already.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 03:40:29 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4678990/lovie-bears-still-evaulating-jefferys-injury

Coach Lovie Smith said Monday the Chicago Bears are still evaluating the hand injury wide receiver Alshon Jeffery suffered during Sunday's win over the Jacksonville Jaguars...   "Injury-wise, Alshon Jeffery hurt his hand," Smith said Monday. "We're continuing to evaluate it to see where he is."

Translation = It's bad news that they don't want made public just yet. Cause that would mean 3 of our 4 top draft picks (Jeffery, Hardin and Rodriguez) down or out with injuries within the first 5 games of their careers.

It could also mean they're getting a 2nd opinion...  which also means not good news.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on October 08, 2012, 03:50:19 pm
I couldn't see how he hurt it, I'm holding out hope..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 03:56:00 pm
Lovie doesn't talk about player injuries and he doesn't let his players talk about their injuries so we may never know exactly how it happened.

I don't think he hurt it making the catch, or afterward.  I think it happened before that...  possibly while he was jostling for position. Which would be a really freaky thing cause that hardly ever happens. In whcih case, props to him for fighting through the pain and keeping enough focus to make the catch.

 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 05:01:46 pm
From the Sun-Times...  just posted.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2012/10/alshon_jeffery_has_fracture_in.html

They're saying out 4-6 weeks.  Same as they said (initially) for Carimi last year...  hopefully won't be following the same track.

The health gods have not been kind to Emery's first Bears draft class, that's for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 05:09:25 pm
If we sign a veteran short-term to replace him I hope it's another big guy like Alshon is and not Rasheed Davis or someone like that. Cutler clearly is much more comfortable throwing to guys with a bigger catching radius.

That would also mean we'd have to cut somebody that's currently on the 53 or kick him back down to the practice squad if he's eligible. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 08, 2012, 05:12:01 pm

Or we finally let Weems play some wideout.

Looks like Hester will return as starter.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 08, 2012, 05:13:21 pm
We get some just off the wall injuries. Usually a guy gets hurt, you see it and it's pretty obvious. Us? Nope. We find out after the game after the guy played the remainder or there's no obvious injury, crap like that...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 05:42:27 pm
Looks like we're back to the midget WR corps at least for the next few games.

Marshall being targeted 18-20 times a game wouldn't be out of the question now. Hope he's up to it. And that Cutler and Bennett can get back in sync quickly.

Also gonna need our big TEs to be a presence, especially in the red zone. If we can have success running on our next few opponents that will help too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on October 08, 2012, 06:30:39 pm
Who was that receiver that Minny signed to their practice squad off of us in training camp, Simmons?  Get him...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on October 08, 2012, 06:32:15 pm
Ding! I was thinking the same thing.  Be nice to poach somebody rather than being poached.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on October 08, 2012, 07:05:29 pm
Chris Summers, WR - Summers spent most of camp with the Chicago Bears before being released. Another small school player, having played his college ball at Liberty University, Summers broke a few Big South Conference records that had been held by some guy named Jerome Simpson. He also has a pretty intriguing blend of size and speed. . .he's 6'5", 215 pounds, and ran his 40-yard dash in 4.52 seconds at his Pro Day. Over his junior and senior years with the Flames, he caught 140 passes for 2,095 yards (15 yards/catch) and 22 touchdowns, including 15 scores as a junior. As a senior, he had two games of 200-plus yards, including a 10-catch, 240-yard performance in his final college game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 08, 2012, 08:46:13 pm
Yup, go get Summers
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 09:48:56 pm
We can't just sign Summers away from the Vikings PS can we?

Or can we?

Might be nice to know what he knows about the Vikings offense too..  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 08, 2012, 10:01:35 pm
we can sign him from their PS to our active roster.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on October 08, 2012, 10:07:23 pm
Hello mr Summers, goodby mr Williams.  Seems easy enough.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: AmazinGrace on October 08, 2012, 10:20:34 pm
The NFL Network had an interesting stat on Sunday morning.  Since Lovie Smith took over as Bears coach in 2004, the Bears defense has the following overall rank in the NFL:
Points allowed - 4th
Yards allowed - 12th
3rd down efficiency - 1st
Sacks - 13th
Turnovers - 1st

And that was before Sunday's blitzkrieg. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on October 08, 2012, 10:25:31 pm
Hello mr Summers, goodby mr Williams.  Seems easy enough.

 True Dat

 
The NFL Network had an interesting stat on Sunday morning.  Since Lovie Smith took over as Bears coach in 2004, the Bears defense has the following overall rank in the NFL:
Points allowed - 4th
Yards allowed - 12th
3rd down efficiency - 1st
Sacks - 13th
Turnovers - 1st

And that was before Sunday's blitzkrieg. 

 Lets improve on that.  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: AmazinGrace on October 08, 2012, 10:26:19 pm
Pretty insane story about the murdered Bears fan in the Jacksonville bar who got his throat slashed.  Apparently, it had nothing to do with the game and there was no trash talking or scuffle.  The psycho who did it was jealous over his wife so he decided to calmly walk up to him, cut his throat, and then walked out of the bar.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8478675/chicago-bears-lovie-smith-sympathy-family-slain-fan
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 08, 2012, 11:11:10 pm
Doesnt Florida still have capital punishment by electric chair?

I cant think of a better use for old Sparky than to off that ruthless son of a ****. And I'd feel the same even if the victim hadn't been a Bears fan.

Although, life without parole in a max security pen in ILLINOIS wouldn't be a terrible fallback. The general population would welcome him quite warmly I'm sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 08, 2012, 11:51:03 pm
We can't just sign Summers away from the Vikings PS can we?

Sure we can!   OR we can just call up a guy who wasn't among the first cuts after the preseason like Summers was.

WR Joe Anderson is on OUR practice squad - but he's only 6-1 and not 6-5 so I guess he's not as good???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 08, 2012, 11:59:51 pm

That story out of Jacksonville was very disturbing.  Pettry had a wife and 3 kids back home.  Totally senseless.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on October 09, 2012, 04:58:59 am
Doesnt Florida still have capital punishment by electric chair?

I cant think of a better use for old Sparky than to off that ruthless son of a ****. And I'd feel the same even if the victim hadn't been a Bears fan.

Although, life without parole in a max security pen in ILLINOIS wouldn't be a terrible fallback. The general population would welcome him quite warmly I'm sure.

Florida does lethal injection now.  Ol' Sparky has been retired.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on October 09, 2012, 06:01:17 am
We can't just sign Summers away from the Vikings PS can we?

Sure we can!   OR we can just call up a guy who wasn't among the first cuts after the preseason like Summers was.

WR Joe Anderson is on OUR practice squad - but he's only 6-1 and not 6-5 so I guess he's not as good???

Exactly!

Seriously though, I wonder what the coaches didn't like at the time.  It seemed like he was playing well during the preseason, I almost wonder if it was an attitude thing or something.  He seemed to be the best of the "never to make its" at the time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 09, 2012, 06:43:45 am
our WR situation was tight this year.
We were going to keep Marshall, AJ, Bennett, Hester and Weems.
That only left 1 spot for several guys who were looking pretty good so they took the guy that was here last year.
My concern is that it seems like Jay looks for Marshall too much. When he is targeting Marshall 15 times a game, it seems like he is so focused, if Marshall gets hurt what will Jay do?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 09, 2012, 07:25:04 am
So sad about that guy. THere are some pretty ruthless and wicked individuals walking this earth that wouldn't think twice about killing.......Hell awaits them for sure....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 08:02:53 am
Like Nav said, Summers was a tough situation for us.  He had some drops in preseason games that really hurt his cause.  Still, with his physical attributes and what he did flash in preseason outside the drops, it was almost certain another team would pick him up unless we put him on the 53, and that probably would have meant getting rid of Sanzenbacher.  Apparently the coaches decided that Dane's experience and polish trumped Summers' measurables and upside.

Personally I was really unhappy to see us give up on him so soon and even more upset he went to a division rival.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 09, 2012, 10:12:25 am
I just hope the Jeffery stays in shape while he is out.  If he stops running and gets fat when he comes back he isnt going to be near the same. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 10:49:24 am
I'm more worried about Jeffery losing his sync with Cutler than I am about his conditioning.

Jeffery was really stung by those "fat" accusations that surfaced before the draft and caused him to fall below lesser players like Blackmon, Floyd and Kendall Wright.  I think that's gonna stick with him and be a strong motivator during his recovery.

If anything this may be a blessing in disguise as it will save him some wear and tear these next few weeks and keep him fresher for a very difficult 2nd half of the season and (hopefully) a deep postseason push.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 11:18:19 am
Interesting...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1364329-chicago-bears-on-pace-to-set-nfl-return-td-record

And keep in mind this is without a single KR or PR for a TD yet this year.  Hester is definitely in a slump but I have to think at some point this season he'll get things turned around.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 09, 2012, 11:43:26 am

If Jeffrey gets out of shape its the Bears fault as much as Jeffrey's.  I just don't see that happening in the pros.

I don't know the details of the injury but if its just hairline fracture he should be able to catch the ball after about 4 weeks - just depends on how he heals.  Maybe he'll return by the 11/11 game against the Texans.

As for Hester, he's doing better than last year on his KO return - almost 27 yards a return, but his punt return average has dropped over the last couple weeks to around 8.   I think he'll be fine and he's certainly improved over late last season when he just wasn't the same Hester.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 11:48:06 am
The Lions STs have been really bad this year.  Could be a good game for Hester to get off the schneid with a return TD.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 09, 2012, 11:48:09 am
'The record was set by 1998 Seattle, who went 8-8 that year.'
    ..... Why am I feeling sick to my stomach all of a sudden?.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 12:01:37 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4679022/source-bears-expected-to-sign-wr-aiken?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

What's interesting is, this guy went to the same school as Brandon Marshall.  The article speculates they will promote Anderson from the practice squad and put Aiken in his place.  Which would still require us bumping someone from the 53.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 09, 2012, 01:14:21 pm

The article seemed accurate until the very end:

The Bears haven't given any indication as to how they plan to proceed with Jeffery, but it would be logical for the club to consider placing him on the injured reserve depending on the receiver's timetable for a return.

I think Anderson gets moved up and they'll put Aiken on the PS - so somebody on the 53 man has to be cut - unless they just want to swap out Anderson for this guy on the PS.

If they promote Anderson these appear to be the likely cuts:

Hard to believe but Chris Williams may be an option.  Most likely the only other two are 2 younger unproven d-lineman DE Cheta Ozougwu and DT Nate Collins.

I guess the Bears are not that confident in Eric Weems - he looked pretty explosive in the PS but I don't think he's touched the ball even on STs this season.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 01:26:16 pm
If Chris Williams gets cut he will be signed by a new team within 48 hours.  He's clearly at the end of the line in Chicago but there are some really bad OLs out there (Cardinals, Rams, Panthers) for whom Williams would immediately be in the mix to start as either a T or G.

My money is on the young DE with the weird name to take the fall...  if not as an outright cut, to be pushed back down to the PS.  Frankly I'm surprised Nate Collins hasn't seen action yet and especially last week when I thought he'd be active against his former team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 09, 2012, 01:35:50 pm
They activated Toeaina as the 4th DT because of the Jags ability to run the ball and possibly the heat factor.

Its tough to break into our d-line lineup right now but you'd like to take a look at the young guys at some point in the season.  If they can activate Toeaina they can activate Collins.

But at DE they already have 4 solid guys.  Not sure if Cheta gets a shot unless someone gets nicked.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 01:41:37 pm
The one thing I would say is, if we were gonna cut Chris Williams I would hope Emery would at least try to work out a trade for him first.

There are enough OLs out there hurting for decent (not even great) bodies that trying to get a mid-round pick for Williams wouldn't be beyond the bounds of reason.  It would be nice to get at least that back out of our former Top 15 draft pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 09, 2012, 01:52:17 pm
I don't understand why we don't value CW more.
Unless Rachal is lighting it up He is a better LG than Rachal, Spencer and Edwin Williams.
He can play LT and RT in a pinch.
I'd cut one of the G if needed except for the fact that Williams is gone after this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 09, 2012, 02:02:45 pm

I just don't understand the CW situation at all.  There's no way I would consider cutting him since he can play 4/5 positions on the line.

But its clear he has fallen out of favor with the Bears for whatever reason.

We may be jumping to conclusions - maybe the Bears are just swapping out the WRs on the PS.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 02:18:32 pm
One blog said the coaches have already seen enough of the FA acquisition Jonathan Scott to consider him a better option than CW.

If you'll notice he started showing up on the inactive list not too long after we brought Scott on board.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 09, 2012, 02:35:34 pm
The one thing I would say is, if we were gonna cut Chris Williams I would hope Emery would at least try to work out a trade for him first.

There are enough OLs out there hurting for decent (not even great) bodies that trying to get a mid-round pick for Williams wouldn't be beyond the bounds of reason.  It would be nice to get at least that back out of our former Top 15 draft pick.

I agree. The trade deadline hasnt passed and before cutting a guy I'd try to trade him first.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 09, 2012, 02:39:33 pm
I thought he was an average to above average LG.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 03:03:02 pm
CW is better than ANY of the 5 guys starting for the Cardinals OL.  No joke.  Even at C which he's never played he'd be an upgrade.

Their OL is that bad.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 09, 2012, 03:18:17 pm
I would think about cutting Kahlil Bell if I had to.  Forte, Bush and Allen make a pretty good combo.  What does Bell bring to the table the others dont?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 03:29:00 pm
If we cut Bell he may wind up on the Packers.

Word from Green Bay is CedBen is out a minimum 8 weeks with a Lisfranc injury.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 09, 2012, 03:44:01 pm

I agree with boogie...with Forte and Busch back Bell is now expendable.

Bell might get picked up by the Pack - but I doubt he starts as the Pack appears set with Alex Green...Alex who?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 09, 2012, 03:58:52 pm
I'm thinking more of Bell spilling our secrets to the Pack.

But then the Packers seem to have our offense pretty well figured out already so probably not much more damage that could do. Until we've got someone who can take Clay Matthews out of the equation we're gonna have tough sledding against them even if their D doesn't exactly know what's coming.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on October 09, 2012, 07:08:27 pm
Turns out the wife and I are going to be in Nashville the weekend of the Bears game.  So I looked up tickets...170+ each...brother.  Anyone know what the heck is going on in TN to cause this issue.

Going to TB vs. Chiefs for 35 bucks this weekend...that's what I'm talking bout.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on October 09, 2012, 08:18:27 pm
Reply off the top of my head would be your paying for Chris Johnson's salary.  Bud Adams is known as "bottom line Bud" down here. That is puzzling, the Titans aren't doing squat. If you opt out ( I ain't goin either) there's sports bars all over, and, just a few miles south the Jack Daniels distillery.  Great tour.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on October 09, 2012, 08:19:44 pm
I wouldn't 't mind watching Tillman punching at a ball held by K. Bell.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on October 10, 2012, 06:17:17 am
Hiber - Have you checked the local craigslist also?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on October 10, 2012, 08:44:57 am
HIber- I did some asking, at those prices, they should be club seats, which will give you access to suites. That t'aint bad, you can still get a hot day down hear in early Nov.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 10, 2012, 09:00:28 am
Interesting article on the Tice / Cutler dynamic, from Cutler's perspective. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/10/jay-cutler-says-he-likes-mike-tice-really-he-does/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 10, 2012, 09:48:36 am
Aiken signed, Unga gone.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4679022/source-bears-expected-to-sign-wr-aiken?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 10, 2012, 10:55:47 am
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4679067/tillman-earns-nfc-defensive-honor

Congrats to Peanut but honestly, Briggs' pick-6 was more impressive.  245-lb LBs aren't supposed to be able to do things like that. And Briggs had a sack in that game as well IIRC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 10, 2012, 11:39:28 am
While I was admittedly fascinated with Unga's size for a RB, I am glad he is gone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on October 10, 2012, 11:42:39 am
Turns out the wife and I are going to be in Nashville the weekend of the Bears game.  So I looked up tickets...170+ each...brother.  Anyone know what the heck is going on in TN to cause this issue.

Going to TB vs. Chiefs for 35 bucks this weekend...that's what I'm talking bout.

Been trying to run down tickets for a month.  You're right about the tickets being 170 dollars and more and that's in the upper level at that!

Guess maybe I'll drive up the day of the game and hope some scalpers have some reasonable tickets.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 10, 2012, 11:49:22 am
While I was admittedly fascinated with Unga's size for a RB, I am glad he is gone.

The Michael Bush signing was the beginning of the end for Unga. Bush is bigger, has significant NFL experience and doesn't come with the injury and personal issues that kept Unga from ever seeing significant time.  And from the very limited game action I saw of Unga, he doesn't bring anything to the table we don't already have with Bush and even Rodriguez.  So he was totally expendable.  In fact for some reason I thought we had already let him go awhile ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 10, 2012, 11:53:41 am
I like Bush too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 10, 2012, 12:00:45 pm
While I was admittedly fascinated with Unga's size for a RB, I am glad he is gone.

Unga cut from practice squad - hey let's throw a parade!

How could anyone be happy that Unga was cut from the PS?   I don't recall ever seeing him play this preseason so I can't really form an opinion of him. 

And as long as his personal issues are behind him and don't affect his play going forward - I could not care less about them. 

Bears are currently short at WR and deep at tailback - numbers game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 10, 2012, 12:11:09 pm
I like Bush too.

**rimshot**
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 10, 2012, 12:23:29 pm
Ha!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on October 10, 2012, 01:04:53 pm
Thanks for the replies...yes I have been looking at craigslist.  Phil definitely has been looking too, because 170 is nose bleed section.  Same weekend as the CMA awards...may have something to do with it. 

I will definitely be tailgating in parking lot, if I can get "reasonable" tickets I will be attending the game.  If not I will be at local sports bar.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on October 10, 2012, 08:19:21 pm
We can't just sign Summers away from the Vikings PS can we?

Or can we?

Might be nice to know what he knows about the Vikings offense too..  ;)

They can if they convince him to sign with them and they put him on their roster.

However, the Vikings can still keep him if they  raise his salary and/or sign him to their roster.  He is, in effect, a FA from the league's point of view.  The Packers did that with a couple of their WRs on the PS last season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 10, 2012, 11:15:05 pm
Summers isnt coming back to Chicago.

We signed some no-name WR from the Bills to our practice squad. Looks like it will be Hester, Bennett and Sanzebacher (ick) till Alshon is good to go again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on October 11, 2012, 12:06:08 am
Damn.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 11, 2012, 02:32:39 am

They say that Bennett should be ready by the Detroit game.  So with the bye that would mean he's been out about what...4 weeks?

So did he too break his hand but they didn't announce it because it wasn't on TV?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on October 11, 2012, 05:05:39 am
**rimshot**

LOL!! Most of 'em are shaven these days!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on October 11, 2012, 06:17:38 am
I think it is going to be one of those games that is hard to get at a reduced rate. Remember, Cutler also played at Vandy so there is a following of fans that want to see him because of that.  If the Titans continue to tank - starting tonight - more tickets will come on the market.  I'd check CL tomorrow and through the weekend.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 11, 2012, 08:08:33 am
They say that Bennett should be ready by the Detroit game.  So with the bye that would mean he's been out about what...4 weeks?

So did he too break his hand but they didn't announce it because it wasn't on TV?


Good question.  He wound up missing a lot more time than expected last year too after that cheap shot he got in the Saints game. Something like 6 games IIRC. Maybe he's just a slow healer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 11, 2012, 08:24:57 am
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4679077/gm-no-extension-talks-with-lovie-yet

I'm glad we're not jumping into an extension for Lovie.  With the exception of a couple of lapses (1st half of Jax and the entire GB game), he's been doing good work this season but let's see what happens when we start running into the top-tier teams on our schedule (Texans, Niners, etc.).  And/or if we should sustain a season ending injury to a key player or two.

Not saying we have to win the SuperBowl this year to warrant keeping Lovie (though it would be nice), but I would say at minimum the standard should be a deep playoff push which I would define as getting to the NFC Championship game at least.

The other thing he HAS to do -- and IMO this is just as important as a deep playoff run -- is break this jinx the Packers have over us.  That first Packers game this year was the worst I've seen this team play since that shi-bacle against the Giants two years ago.  And the last couple times we've played them before that haven't been much better. We need to win the re-match this year and look good doing it, especially since one of the first things he ever said as the new Bears HC was how important it was to beat GB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 11, 2012, 08:56:10 am
Agreed, Yapp about GB. This HAS to be one of his key job reqs. Most Bears fans absolutely will not tolerate a team that cannot beat them. They are our most hated rivals and it's inexcusable to flop mainly against them constantly, to the point of losing THREE times in one year to them! We let them get to the super bowl AND kept ourselves out of it by this ridiculousness.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on October 11, 2012, 09:08:35 am
Better have some replacement candidates lined up before you dump a guy who has been very successful in Chicago
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 11, 2012, 09:09:32 am
What is it now, 5 times in a row we've lost to the Pack?  Ridiculous, and unacceptable.  Especially since they have proven in other games that they are very beatable this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 11, 2012, 09:11:47 am
Better have some replacement candidates lined up before you dump a guy who has been very successful in Chicago

Actually Lovie is under contract through the 2013 season.  So even if the Bears don't make the playoffs this year I doubt Lovie is fired (unless the team just has a spectacular collapse)...  it may just cause Emery to hold off longer on an extension decision. 

The other thing is, Lovie doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that wants to be doing this forever.  He has made a lot of money during his time with the Bears and it could very well be he starts thinking about retirement in the next few years. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 11, 2012, 09:27:17 am
The other thing is, Lovie doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that wants to be doing this forever.  He has made a lot of money during his time with the Bears and it could very well be he starts thinking about retirement in the next few years. 

What makes you think that?  Lovie is in his mid 50s - I would think he'd be more like most football coaches in that he's not going to just walk away from the game.  Now maybe if he's fired I could see him possibly not wanting to go back to being a defensive coordinator.

But who really knows what goes inside these guys minds?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 11, 2012, 09:58:14 am
If Lovie gets fired, he'll get another HC job likely in the same offseason as long as he wants it and there are a few openings.
He has won a lot of games in a usually tough division and hasn't really had any scandals.
Honestly part of me wants someone like Cowher but I think I would rather keep Lovie. Our D and special teams are usually good under Lovie. I'd like to see Emery get another draft of talent for Lovie to work with and hopefully some OL help.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 11, 2012, 09:59:42 am
There's always the defensive coach for Cleveland.....oops, Jauron got that....ok, there's always the defensive coach for Buffalo...er, Wannys got that spot...ok then...how about Jax?? He could 'retire' there and take it easy like his predecessors evidently have.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 11, 2012, 10:46:23 am
He has won a lot of games in a usually tough division and hasn't really had any scandals.

Yup, Lovie has some faults but one thing that really stands out in his favor is that the Bears by and large have always played hard but clean, and they don't constantly have off-field incidents and lockerroom drama circulating around their players a la the Jets, Lions, Bengals, etc.

He runs what you'd call a "clean program" and I think that's one huge reason he's gotten in so good with the McCaskeys.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 12, 2012, 09:55:09 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-1012-dan-mcneil--20121012,0,6846703.column

This no time to extend Smith's contract
Let Bears win playoff game before they play 'Let's make a new deal' with coach
   
Dan McNeil
 
8:47 p.m. CDT, October 11, 2012
Of course Phil Emery and Lovie Smith denied they have been knocking knees over a fresh contract for the coach. There's no upside for either of them if they indicate otherwise.

If they're being truthful and Emery does wait until after the season for such a conversation, that's a good thing. Emery is a rookie general manager and it's best for anybody in any vocation to ease into the job. There's no good reason to rush to judgment, especially for something as critical as a commitment to the headmaster.

Smith, whose contract doesn't expire until after next season, doesn't want to create the impression he's puffy-chested after an encouraging 4-1 start. While the coach always is quick to be smug with media, don't think for a second he doesn't care how he's viewed in the court of public opinion.

One of the first things Smith did when he succeeded Dick Jauron was try to appeal to Meatball Nation by placing success against the hated Packers high on his mission statement. Maybe there's something in the water at Halas Hall, but the team's preoccupation with protecting its public perception has ballooned over the last decade or so.

Unless the Bears make a Super Bowl appearance, I would love to see them buck the conventional NFL trend and let Smith enter the final year of his deal "playing" for his job. Players do that on 32 NFL teams every year.

Who made the rule that coaches are above that and should be exempt from lame-duck status?

Smith needs to win a game in January to earn a new deal. The standard by which coaches are judged needs to be higher than "his players play hard for him."

Please tell me the new direction the Bears are taking under Chairman George McCaskey's stewardship includes a higher standard than winning what could be a very average NFC North. Please tell me postseason accomplishments are the objective and will be the most important barometer.

If the Packers don't recover, the Vikings come down to the earth and the Bears win the division, does a first-round loss to the Giants merit a contract extension for Smith? Not in my world.

Since the Bears went to Super Bowl XLI in February of 2007, Smith has one playoff victory on his resume. In 2010, his Bears beat a Seahawks team that, according to the numbers crunchers, was the worst postseason outfit in NFL history.

I need more.

Advocates of a new deal for Smith say it makes sense to "buy low" before he gets his mitts on the Lombardi trophy. That's silly.

If the Bears take a confetti shower, they should be delighted to make Smith the highest-paid coach in league history. If they don't win a game in January, they should have a clear conscience requiring him to earn a new deal based on his team in 2013.

It's pro football. Grown-up rules are for everybody, right?

Hold the phone, Phil.

Special contributor Dan McNeil hosts "The McNeil and Spiegel Show" weekdays from 9 a.m.-1 p.m. on WSCR-AM 670.

Copyright © 2012, Chicago Tribune
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 12, 2012, 09:55:45 am
That makes sense in my world
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 12, 2012, 10:35:17 am
McNeil can be a straight-up jackass but on this topic he is 100% on point.

Emery has given Lovie all the players he needs to make deep playoff push -- including the depth to absorb a major injury or two (which we didn't have last year and we all know the results). 

With the possible exception of the OL, there is enough talent on this roster to post a 12 or 13 win season and win the division. Lovie needs to be evaluated the rest of this year on how well he can keep his players and coaching staff pulling together to realize that potential.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 12, 2012, 10:43:15 am
In 2010, his Bears beat a Seahawks team that, according to the numbers crunchers, was the worst postseason outfit in NFL history.

Tell that to then return Super Bow champion Saints who the Seahawks defeated the weekend before.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 12, 2012, 10:49:00 am
Emery has given Lovie all the players he needs to make deep playoff push -- including the depth to absorb a major injury or two (which we didn't have last year and we all know the results).


Not sure what the offense would be like if we lost Marshall with Jeffery already out.

With the possible exception of the OL, there is enough talent on this roster to post a 12 or 13 win season and win the division.

Aside from Marshall and Jeffery, the starting talent is the same as last year's team that went on a 5 game win streak before the Cutler injury.   Emery had a solid draft but lucked into Marshall falling into his lap.

But I do give him credit for adding veteran depth at QB, HB, CB, and LB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 12, 2012, 10:51:44 am
That same Seahawks team had also beat us in the regular season, at Soldier Field.  A game that most Bears fan at the time had tagged as an "easy win" for the Bears.

So yeah, they didn't have the greatest record going into the playoffs, but they were not an awful team.

And now we've got em again this year.  Heck they might as well be in our division as much as it seems we've been playing them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 12, 2012, 10:53:26 am
But I do give him credit for adding veteran depth at QB, HB, CB, and LB.

Yes, the depth is really where Emery has raised the bar.  That and Marshall.

Jury is still out on his first draft class and probably will be until at least next year when hopefully everyone gets (and stays) healthy.  At this point in their rookie seasons I would give Jeffery an A (solid contributor), McClellin and Rodriguez B's (contributing, but inconsistent), and Hardin an Incomplete.

The other thing that COULD help our chances this year vs. last is the (apparent) regression of both the Lions and Packers.  But then you've got the Vikings resurging so in terms of the division it's definitely not a done deal for the Bears plus the fact we've lost to the Packers 5 or 6 times now and they really seem to have our number.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 12, 2012, 11:59:13 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/12/bears-players-rally-to-support-widow-of-slain-fan/

Class move by our team.  Lovie is a family-first guy and it looks like his players have picked up that mantle as well.

Special props to Kellen Davis for putting this thing together.  And what's ironic about that is, IIRC, he had some "character" questions coming out of college and that was one of the reasons he fell as far as he did.

It's also nice to see our players doing stuff like this during their bye week vs. crashing cars or raising havoc in strip clubs or whatever.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 15, 2012, 12:58:23 pm
The Chicago Bears released running back Kahlil Bell on Monday and signed tight end Brody Eldridge.

Eldridge, who was acquired by the St. Louis Rams on waivers before the 2012 season, was released after being suspended for the first four games for violating the NFL's policy on performance-enhancing substances, according to NFL.com.

The Bears brought Eldridge in for a tryout last week.

Eldridge, a fifth-round draft pick by the Indianapolis Colts out of Oklahoma in 2010, started 16 games over two seasons with the Colts. He had 14 catches for 84 yards.


The Bell release wasn't unexpected (he didn't dress at J'ville) but not sure why they need another TE when they could have used a WR.  Eldridge has good size at 6-5 265 and has the 14 receptions over 2 years but for minimum yardage.

Might be looking to upgrade Kyle Adams?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 15, 2012, 01:02:03 pm
Could be. Adams had a great training camp and preseason but has come up pretty short now that the games count.

Adams is a real quality individual and I would love to see him turn into a solid contributor but Emery doesn't have any qualms about churning the roster at any time, especially the guys that aren't starters or real solid #2s.  Which at this point, Adams isn't.

The other possibility is that Evan Rodriguez' injury is worse than they've let on, and he's heading towards IR as the 2nd "redshirt" of Emery's first draft class.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 15, 2012, 01:25:13 pm

The other possibility is that Evan Rodriguez' injury is worse than they've let on, and he's heading towards IR as the 2nd "redshirt" of Emery's first draft class.

This was my first thought also.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ISF on October 15, 2012, 02:46:30 pm
Grantland; Making sense of the NFL Chaos:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8506988/the-top-teams-game-rest-week-6-news
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 15, 2012, 03:05:49 pm
Bears are definitely benefiting in the court of public opinion from surprise losses sustained by teams like the Niners, Texans and Patriots yesterday.

Would like to see them put a whuppin on the Lions Monday night before I put them much higher than 5 or 6 in my own personal ranking, though.  I think that come-from-behind win against the Eagles may have woken them up although with it going into OT I'm hoping they come into Soldiers a bit beat-up and fatigued.  Stafford in particular doesn't look like he's got 100% of his mobility right now.

OTOH, the Lions D-Line pretty much took over the game in the 2nd half so our OL will need to play 4 solid quarters against that crew.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 15, 2012, 03:06:09 pm
Quote
the best team in football resides in the Windy City.

DANG STRAIGHT! GO BEARS!!!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 15, 2012, 05:22:07 pm

Lions are better than their record - their offense is #2 in the NFL and their defense is 9th.  Of course those rankings do not take into consideration turnovers and special team play.

This will be a good test for the Bears' offensive and defensive lines.

One of the keys to the game will be whether Tillman can neutralize Megatron to Mediumtron.  If he can I really like the Bears' chances.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 15, 2012, 05:47:40 pm
Where are you getting your rankings from?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 15, 2012, 09:59:40 pm
I haven't seen Fairley and Suh play all year like they did that 2nd half of the Eagles game.

Considering our OL is still very much a work in progress, that's a potential concern.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on October 16, 2012, 06:28:03 am
With Avril and Vandenbosh, it is a tough match up for sure.  That whole line just likes to punish.  That was the best half of football I have seen Fairley play ever in the NFL, hope that one doesn't show up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 16, 2012, 07:59:08 am
What I couldn't believe about Fairley is, he looks downright out of shape... at least 30 lbs heavier than he was last year... and is still moving well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 16, 2012, 09:58:40 am
Have not seen the Lions yet this season.

One of my biggest concerns is their pass rush...particularly Rachal against Farley.  Rachal hasn't been challenged since taking over the LG job.  Louis, are best interior blocker will get Suh, but he's going to need some help from Garza.  Avril is their best pass rusher and Carimi will have to rebound from the Jax game to keep him off Cutler.   And Webb should do OK against Van den Bosch, whose not not a speed rusher, but he's still a veteran that Webb will have to maintain his focus on.

Lion LBs shut down McCoy last week and their secondary is better now with Delmas returning to safety.

Someone besides Forte and Marshall will have to step up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 16, 2012, 10:29:49 am
I could pretty easily see Delmas picking Cutler off at least once Monday night.

Sunday was the first game this year Delmas played and so if Tice and Bates are gameplanning based on footage from earlier this season (without Delmas in the lineup) I could see Cutler trying to force some throws he probably shouldn't.

Gotta get our run game going big early and tire that Lions DL out.

The good news is, it doesn't sound like Jahvid Best will be coming back anytime soon.  That dude torched us last year in the first Lions game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 16, 2012, 12:31:32 pm

The reason Best scored on that long play was that Chris Harris took a really bad angle.  It wasn't the first time and it led to his release.  One thing I notice about Conte is that even though he's not making a lot of flashy plays or picks, he's often the last man on an opponent's long run or catch and he's there to make the tackle and prevent the TD. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 16, 2012, 12:36:33 pm

from the trib:

Bennett's return from a broken left hand for Monday's meeting with the Lions at Soldier Field is well-timed as Jeffery is likely out until the second half of the season with a broken right hand.

OK, did just I miss this detail on Bennett's hand injury the last 4 weeks?



Looks like the papers confirmed that Eldridge is going to play some FB - all 6-5 of him.  Guess Bears are really looking to establish the run with this signing and the promotion of Rachal to the starting lineup.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 16, 2012, 12:51:24 pm
Guess Bears are really looking to establish the run with this signing and the promotion of Rachal to the starting lineup.

A smart move.  Emery & Co. realize there's no way with the current personnel that we're gonna have a Marino-era Dolphins OL when it comes to pass protection.  Our current group of O-Linemen simply do not have that in their skill set.  So rather than trying to force them into being something that they're not, we'll hope they continue to get better at what they ARE pretty good at -- run blocking -- and hopefully that, in turn, will set up play action, rollouts and other things that will allow us to "manufacture" pass protection that otherwise wouldn't be there based strictly on talent. 

Sure there are a lot of us that would love to see Cutler throwing 30-35 times a game with 4 or 5 seconds of clean pocket every dropback.  And if we could do that he'd probably throw for 400 yards and 3 or 4 TDs a game.  But that's not the hand we've been dealt with this OL so adjustments to the scheme (and supporting personnel, i.e., TEs) are in order.  Some might feel like if we start relying too heavily on the run game then we're basically "wasting" Cutler by making him a game manager but that's not how I see it.  Let our run game soften up the other team's D and lull them to sleep and then BAM! Cutler zings 'em for a big play.

It's called playing to your personnel's strengths and it's something that's relatively new for the Bears but long overdue and nice to see. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 16, 2012, 03:35:12 pm
Roll outs are going to be important, if they ever call one. This is going to be a defensive struggle. Bears shall prevail, 20-10
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 16, 2012, 04:05:43 pm
Given it's in Chicago and late October, this could be the first game for the Bears where weather really plays a factor.

I would have to think colder, wet and windy weather would favor the Bears vs. the indoor Lions and would keep scoring down... but we've all seen exceptions to that rule in the past.

Long range forecast right now calls for chance of showers and 67 but that's a long ways out yet. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 16, 2012, 04:11:35 pm
Hmm, come to think of it, I don't believe our Oline is talented and quick enough on their feet to do a roll-out, lol.....possibly why we haven't seen em....think Tice may be going by KISS....Keep It Simple,Stupid.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 16, 2012, 04:28:04 pm
I think most of the rollouts have been unintentional...  i.e. protection breaks down so off Cutler goes.

Play action has been working well for us though, by and large.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on October 16, 2012, 04:53:29 pm
Chris Williams cut, Zack Bowman back.  That guy doesn't let grass grow under his feet that's for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 16, 2012, 05:14:41 pm
Emery is systematically purging the OL of Angelo's high priced mistakes. Omiyale - gone. C Williams - gone.

Spencer next?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 16, 2012, 05:34:53 pm
Spencer next? Thats an interesting question. On first thought that just might happen. But somehow I thought Edwin Williams might be shown the door first. Spencer should be Garza's prime backup.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 16, 2012, 05:38:49 pm
And while we all talked about Chris Williams being on his last leg here, I still seemed rather shocked they let him go. But it was pointed out that being a free agent at the end of the season made his value so diminished that nobody would give us anything for him. OTOH, even a 7th round pick is better than what we got.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 16, 2012, 05:47:55 pm
Great that he's 'purging' but where's the 'binging' on new hires??? We need bodies for the Oline!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 16, 2012, 05:48:27 pm
Bears were determined that Williams ONLY shot on the team was as a starter at LT.  I figured he was gone at the end of the season but when he was inactivated the last couple games it was the beginning of the end for him.   I guess they figure if there is an injury on the O-line the PS tackle Brown is ready to go.

Zack Bowman?  I'm thinking Toub is not too pleased with McManis.  5 tackles this season and NONE in the last 3 games...plus I recall he had a couple penalties at J'ville.  Zack Bowman may not be a top notch starter at CB but he's a quality STer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 16, 2012, 06:58:51 pm
I just hope Cutler isnt ticked about this with the Vandy connection. Then again CW wasnt helping keep Cutler off the ground.  Wasnt Bowman in the dog house at the end of last season?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 16, 2012, 07:34:48 pm
Jonathan Scott is the heir apparent at backup swing T and that was pretty much determined within his first week as a Bear if not before he was even signed.

And I see Spencer going away before E Williams cause Spencer is cashing a bigger check. Emery's MO by now is clear... If you're not a starter then you'd better be working cheap.

Re Bowman, our STs have had challenges in coverage but where we're really coming up short is in springing Hester on returns. Not sure if that's behind the signing but thats an area that definitely needs attention.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 16, 2012, 08:54:55 pm
So Gabe Carimi is now the only Angelo 1st round pick still on our roster.

Hard to imagine he could be on the bubble after this season already but the way Emery has been rolling, who knows?

At the money he's making he'd better hope Scott doesn't send him to the bench...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 16, 2012, 10:24:50 pm
And I see Spencer going away before E Williams cause Spencer is cashing a bigger check. Emery's MO by now is clear... If you're not a starter then you'd better be working cheap.

That I didnt know, but I believe it comes down to which has the talent . I think Spencer has more talent and ability to play over Edwin Williams, thats IMHO makes him less expendable. If you believe Edwin Williams can be an effective backup, or emergency replacement in case Garza is injured then you might be right. I just dont see it that way.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on October 16, 2012, 10:39:02 pm
 Angelo didnt know a fuuckin thing about drafting OL. Which is why he never did.

 Tice gets the job as OC and one of the first things gone is Chris "short arms" Williams.

 He had to be biting his lower lip when ol' Chris was around last season.

 "You mean THIS is my fuucking OL ???"  WTF  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on October 17, 2012, 05:10:16 am
How did Carimi go from being our best lineman to on the bubble?  One bad game?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 08:01:49 am
How did Carimi go from being our best lineman to on the bubble?  One bad game?

My point being that Carimi is being paid starters' money.  The instant a starter quits being a starter for Emery...  but is still making starters' money...  that person's job in is jeopardy.

I'm not predicting that will happen but what I am saying is that if someone (Jonathan Scott or whoever) emerges to knock Carimi out of the starting lineup then his odds of playing out his contract as a Bear go down considerably. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 17, 2012, 08:05:04 am
I would expect we don't tinker with the right side of the line too much unless someone drops in our lap.
I more expect us to look for upgrades at LT and LG. I still don't see why we didn't try Williams back at LG when I think he did pretty well last year.

I would think though that with our OL we could open some running lanes now though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 08:06:53 am
With regard to Spencer...  all along I had been assuming he was the heir apparent to Garza but Tice obviously sees some deficiencies in his game at C as they have never allowed him to compete with Garza for that job. He isn't making as much as Chris Williams or Omiyale but he still is now in the same position they are...  a former starter, making starters money and now riding the bench.  We know what happens to those guys in the new regime.

The C position will bear watching this offseason.  I believe Garza has one more year left on his deal but I could see Emery cutting ties early to avoid the situation we had the last year with Kreutz.  OTOH I don't see our next starting C currently on our roster...  Spencer appears to be out of favor and Edwin Williams is not the answer.  So that would mean spending a draft pick on the position (when we're already down our 3rd and 7th), or picking up a vet in trade or FA.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 08:09:20 am
Chris Williams did OK as an OG in pull blocking scenarios... but his pass protection was brutal and he was a liability in straight ahead run blocking as well.  1 out of 3 doesn't feed the bulldog.

I still think Williams can salvage his career with another team but it will have to be in a zone blocking scheme which is better suited to his strengths.  And he has to stay healthy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 17, 2012, 08:15:37 am
It wouldn't surprise me to see Spencer as the C.
I think to be a good center that smarts is more important than ability.
I'm pretty sure Spencer played C before and did ok playing G last year with a hand in a cast.
I'm thinking if he hadn't hurt his hand last year that Garza would have been playing G and Spencer would have been at C.

Regarding Spencer vs Rachal I'm guessing neither was a great pass blocker but Rachal was a better run blocker so they gave him the nod.
Maybe it was just that Rachal worked with Webb better from a chemistry standpoint, who knows.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 09:14:03 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-chris-williams-will-visit-eagles-20121017,0,2762657.story

Eagles have some issues on their OL...  wouldn't surprise me to see him get a chance there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 17, 2012, 09:48:39 am
Chris Williams was playing LG when the offense was clicking last season.  In his 9 starts he gave up one sack and had 2 false start penalties - no holds.  Not saying he was all that great but a guy with his talents will find a starting job in the NFL...BUT NOT AT LT!!!

Aside from old man Garza Bears starters are right very young on the O-line:  Webb 24, Rachal 26, Garza 33,  Louis 27, Carimi 24. 

Of course being young is of no benefit if you can't block - big test this Monday against a quality 4 man d-line - probably the best they've faced this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 09:53:57 am
big test this Monday against a quality 4 man d-line - probably the best they've faced this year.

Very good point.  We have faced teams with outstanding individual D-Linemen (Matthews, Ware, Long), but the Lions definitely have a better DL as a collective than any of those teams we've played. Frankly I'm a little concerned about our prospects Monday night if our OL doesn't come out in sync from the first snap and allows the Lions DL to create havoc on our early possessions.  The whole snowball effect against Green Bay started with our terrible OL play at the beginning of the game.  If Cutler takes a lot of sacks / hits early on and goes into a funk we could have a lot tougher time against the Lions than many are predicting. 

Hopefully the additional rest and prep time afforded to our OL by the bye week will prevent that from happening.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 17, 2012, 10:19:05 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-chicago-bears-tackle-gabe-carimi-ok-with-pressure-of-high-expectations-20121017,0,6532580.story

Looks like the writers are done with Webb...for now...on to some fresh meat. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 17, 2012, 10:22:32 am

You would think the Bears offense would come out running and sprinkle in a few short passes and reduce the pressure on the O-line, at least initially.

But then again the Lions' D will be thinking the same thing...so GO DEEP!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 10:24:10 am
That article's not really a smear piece on Carimi.  I read it as neutral if not even tilting towards the positive. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 10:27:33 am
But then again the Lions' D will be thinking the same thing...so GO DEEP!

Exactly, and that's where Cutler gives us a lot more than a "game manager" even if the gameplan focuses on run over pass.

How many times in the Shame Matthews era did we see him execute a great play action, the OL is holding up, he has DAYS worth of time back there... only to check down for a 7 or 8 yard throw.  It drove me absolutely freakin nuts.  But with Cutler, those scenarios turn into 12, 15, 20-yard throws if not even more.

They want to put 8 or 9 men in the box?  Make 'em pay.  They want to blitz?  Make 'em pay.  Cutler is able to turn those scenarios into big positive plays as long as he has the supporting personnel and the latitude to adjust things at the line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on October 17, 2012, 10:31:47 am
Against the Packers the bears did go play action and go deep in the first drive.  It ended in a sack...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 10:36:23 am
I also remember us trying an early screen pass to Forte against the Packers, which their D totally blew up.

That being said, the Eagles made a lot of hay against the Lions with screen passes as well as rollout throws to the sidelines. We should try to work some of those into the gameplan for Monday night.  Make the Lions DL run around a lot early so they don't have as much to bring late in the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 10:47:27 am
I read somewhere that the Lions play the same basic defensive scheme as the Eagles and IIRC both Cutler and Forte have had pretty good outings against the Eagles of late.  So that gives me hope.

If you'll recall, our last loss to the Lions (the first time we played them last year, on MNF) was actually due more to some huge defensive breakdowns than problems with our offense.  Our D more than redeemed themselves in the late-season re-match, but in that Monday night game they were brutal.

If our D can shut down the big plays and our O doesn't short-circuit via penalties and turnovers, we should be OK.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 01:21:49 pm
ESPN Bears blogger reports Zack Bowman will wear Danieal Manning's old # (38), and also that OT Cory Brandon has been re-signed to the Bears practice squad.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 17, 2012, 02:19:23 pm
Very first play of the game, single back set, TE left to block, PA pass to Hester deep. Cut pump fakes to set the safety and bam, TD......
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 17, 2012, 02:42:05 pm

I like it.  Hester has reeled off a big play in each of the last couple games - he needs to keeping doing that and more.

And I'm still waiting for Cutler to target Evan Rodriguez - I saw all his youtube highlights in college and watched the preseason games - he can catch and run.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 17, 2012, 02:48:41 pm
The one problem with my play is Cut isn't real accurate early on, especially the first play like that. He'll overthrow it.....his nerves get the best of him early. IF he can keep it together out the gate, we've got a great shot at that play working.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 02:58:47 pm
Likely scenario is he overthrows it and/or it goes through Hester's hands.  Worst case scenario he underthrows for an INT.

Great play in concept and would definitely get the game off to a great start for the Bears...  but knowing the tendencies of the players involved, the odds of it actually working are almost nil.

The way you handle Cutler is, you start him out with safe, high-percentage throws where he gets in a nice rhythm and doesn't get knocked around a lot.  Then after his juices are flowing and his confidence is up, you let out the reins.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 17, 2012, 03:04:01 pm
Would agree with ya Yapp except he isn't real accurate with the short stuff early on, either. Running plays are about the only thing that will work early but we can't go three and out to start this game.....the Loins D will be pumped to stop it early.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 03:09:19 pm
That's why I'd really like to see us pull off some successful screen passes against the Lions early on.

And by that I mean legit screen passes to Forte, not that gadget bubble screen crap.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 17, 2012, 03:11:59 pm
I think the Loins will be bringing heavy pressure, possibly blitzes, to shake Cut early. I would if I were the D coord. So getting a TE out in space or up the middle or the back coming out would be great as well. A roll out here would work too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 03:34:51 pm
Cutler has had some success recently reading the blitz and getting the ball away to the hot read.  In fact the last two big throws to Hester (Dallas TD and the long completion vs Jax), have both been in those situations.  Forte's ability as a receiver gives us some options there as well.

Second-best way to stop a blitz is to block it.  First-best way is to make the blitzing team pay huge so they quit doing it in the first place.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 17, 2012, 03:54:45 pm
you would think with their DL they wouldn't need to blitz.
Character issues aside on paper their DL should be better than ours at 3/4 of the positions and we have a dang good DL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 17, 2012, 03:59:43 pm
Re comparing Bears and Lions DLs...

I would give the edge to the Bears on the outside. This wouldn't even be close if Peppers was at full strength but even as it is, Wootten and Izzy are doing a nice job so far to pick up the slack. And I would give the edge to the Lions at the DT positions.  That DT rotation of Fairley, Suh and their 3rd guy, when they are all healthy and playing up to their ability, is as potent you're gonna find anywhere in the league.

That being said, our DT tandem of Paea and Melton have played very good ball this year so the advantage for the Lions on the inside is not as marked as it was last year.  And, I think when you factor in all the DL players in the rotation for both teams, the Bears have better depth to bottom.  We also enjoy the versatility of playing guys like Izzy and Peppers at either DE or DT, which the Lions simply can't do with their personnel.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on October 17, 2012, 05:32:47 pm
Cutler is like Favre in that he needs a series or two to settle down.

Rodriguez has been hurt.  Which bites because I really think they were planning on using him in the passing game after lulling teams asleep using him strictly as a blocker the first few weeks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on October 17, 2012, 07:04:48 pm
I personally would like to see us open the game up with run, run, run some more.  When Det. starts stacking the line, time for Forte jump pass to Hester in the flat, Devon makes one guy miss and he is off to the house.

Lets get creative and establish the run all at the same time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on October 17, 2012, 11:14:22 pm

 Wait a minute ... OUR TE's.

 We just cut Bell ... again ... for a TE.

 Which way is the whole game heading ?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on October 17, 2012, 11:26:08 pm
With this O-line it has to start with the run.  They are poor pass protecters and they need every crutch they can get in pass protection.

Run the ball, quick passes, hold TE's in and RB's chipping the DE's.  Do it all.

Screen passes to Forte, slants, quick throws.  Use it all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on October 17, 2012, 11:51:02 pm
With this O-line it has to start with the run.  They are poor pass protecters and they need every crutch they can get in pass protection.

Run the ball, quick passes, hold TE's in and RB's chipping the DE's.  Do it all.

Screen passes to Forte, slants, quick throws.  Use it all.

 I'm all for that but sombody is changing things ...

 they want less RB's and more TE's?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 18, 2012, 01:25:44 am
We need to do the very same thing GB did to the very aggressive Texans, get the ball out quick. I mean 1,2,3 gone! Absolutely cannot hang on to the ball for long if we hope to win this game. The reason the Texans lost was they weren't smart enough to start jumping some of those underneath quick routes. Our Oline is suspect in pass protection so we need to help them as much as possible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 18, 2012, 11:36:05 am
As expected...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/18/chris-williams-tour-heads-to-arizona/

That Cardinals OL is one of the 2 or 3 worst units in the league right now.  Williams not only has a legitimate chance to make their roster, but to start as soon as he's up on their plays.  Which would set up an interesting storyline considering we play the Cardinals later this season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 18, 2012, 11:44:45 am
Rodriguez is back practicing.

Could he help us pick up the slack as a 2nd big-body receiver while Jeffery is on the mend?  We haven't seen him do much more than block so far this season but maybe Tice & Co. have some tricks up their sleeve involving him for Monday night.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 18, 2012, 02:35:54 pm

Assuming we get a play call where Rodriguez is an option - will Cutler throw him the ball?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 18, 2012, 02:48:36 pm
Detroit would be a great game for unveiling Rodriguez as a receiving option but if our OL isn't up to the task we may wind up using him as an extra blocker more than anything else.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 18, 2012, 02:54:40 pm

It's not like we are going to need max protect on EVERY pass play.  Play fake Forte into the middle of the line with Rodriguez leading the play and dump it off to Rodriguez in the middle of the field past the LBs.

Tice will get the feel of the rush at the beginning of the game and will keep or pull off the extra blockers as the game progresses.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 18, 2012, 02:59:07 pm
We gotta be smart about it when they blitz. Blitzing offers opportunities in the flat, outside, etc. Someone has vacated a spot and left it open for a reciever, TE, back to get into and make a play. We need to read that quick and get the ball out to them to keep drives and scoring plays going.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 18, 2012, 03:05:37 pm
I've never been a fan of using non-RBs on screens but with Rogriguez' size / speed combo I think he could be a beast on screen plays.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 18, 2012, 03:08:57 pm
We gotta be smart about it when they blitz. Blitzing offers opportunities in the flat, outside, etc. Someone has vacated a spot and left it open for a reciever, TE, back to get into and make a play.

That's where the Cutler / Marshall chemistry can pay huge dividends.  When your QB and WR see the same play unfolding and adjust to each other in sync, you can really punish defenses on the blitz.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 19, 2012, 08:16:08 am
Lions are a bit banged up.  From an article yesterday:

For the Lions, cornerback Bill Bentley (shoulder), safety Louis Delmas (knee), cornerback Jacob Lacey (concussion) and defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch (not injury related) didn't practice. Defensive end Cliff Avril (back) was limited along with defensive end Ronnell Lewis (eye), tight end Brandon Pettigrew (knee), linebacker Stephen Tulloch (knee), defensive tackle Corey Williams (knee) and receiver Titus Young (knee).

Those aren't bit players either... there's some pretty major contributors in that list.

If we can pound on their walking wounded early (within the rules, of course ;)  ), maybe they'll pack up their tents by the 2nd half.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 19, 2012, 08:37:34 am
maybe we should pound MIchael Bush over to Bentley's side early.
I'm more concerned about the DL though and they appear to be healthy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 19, 2012, 09:08:11 am
Well now there's rain in the forecast for Monday night in Chicago so that could help neutralize the Lions DL, and theoretically at least, tip the balance in favor of our run game and big OL.

Unfortunately if our WRs are slipping and sliding it could also lead to picks for Cutty.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 19, 2012, 09:26:09 am
We gotta be smart about it when they blitz. Blitzing offers opportunities in the flat, outside, etc. Someone has vacated a spot and left it open for a reciever, TE, back to get into and make a play.

That's where the Cutler / Marshall chemistry can pay huge dividends.  When your QB and WR see the same play unfolding and adjust to each other in sync, you can really punish defenses on the blitz.

We also need that new TE we picked up to protect Cuttler. Hope we get to see him
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 19, 2012, 09:29:53 am
Remember that game against Seattle where Kellen Davis knocked a Seahawks DB out of the game?

I'd like to see that against Detroit Monday night.  The Lions' DL is a Top 10 unit but their back 7 other than Tulloch is pretty shaky and is further compromised by numerous injuries right now. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 19, 2012, 11:56:56 am
We also need that new TE we picked up to protect Cuttler. Hope we get to see him

May be kind of early for Brody Eldridge on offense especially if Rodriguez is ready to go.   Maybe they put him on some special teams because he's so versatile.

Still not sure why we signed this guy.  Is he insurance/backup for Rodriguez, which is odd, since a lot of teams don't keep 2 FBs.  Or is he going to take someone's job next year?   Is Spaeth signed in 2013?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 19, 2012, 12:20:36 pm
I think its because we technically have no fullback or back capable of providing adequate protection in the backfield. Early Rodrigues wasnt up to snuff. This guy is experienced
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 19, 2012, 12:52:05 pm

We do have a full back - #48 Rodriguez.  And he rarely plays on obvious passing downs.  I can't say that he's been doing the job on passing downs but if he wasn't we'd all probably have noticed it.

And Forte is a pretty good pass blocker - hopefully he'll be doing more pass receiving in the future than pass blocking.

Eldridge has experience but it was at TE not fullback and I don't think he's played football since the preseason with the Colts when he was suspended.  I'd be surprised if he plays on offense Monday night but maybe they can squeeze him in on STs.  I don't know that they can dress 3 TEs and 2 FBs out of 45 guys.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 19, 2012, 01:06:02 pm
I believe an article I read said he was a fullback in college
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 19, 2012, 01:13:37 pm

maybe he was shorter then...6-5 is kind of tall for a FB.

He also played center and guard his senior year in addition to TE - maybe the Bears plan to feed him and make him a offensive tackle.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 19, 2012, 04:34:58 pm
That would be interesting. Looks like a player to keep your eyes on.

New Chicago Bears tight end Brody Eldridge always has had the reputation of being a solid blocker. So it’s no surprise what role he is willing to accept with his new team.

"I hope to get into the backfield and play a little fullback," Eldridge said. "I haven't done that since college, but that’s something that I enjoy. So we’ll see. The tight ends here look like they do every position, so it will be fun.’’


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-new-bears-te-eldridge-an-option-at-fullback-20121015,0,7231256.story
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 22, 2012, 01:01:21 pm
Chris Williams signs with Rams:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/22/chris-williams-a-ram-racking-up-the-frequent-flyer-miles/

That OL needs help.  I suspect he'll be starting for them sooner than later.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 22, 2012, 02:10:09 pm
Wow...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/22/charles-woodson-to-miss-six-weeks-with-broken-collarbone/

Unfortunately the timeline still has him healthy in plenty of time before we face the Packers again.  And if Rogers keeps playing like he has been, they could run the table the rest of the season no matter how many defensive players they lose.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on October 22, 2012, 07:05:52 pm
Woodson has been pretty quiet this season.  Seems to be on the way down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 24, 2012, 10:31:47 am
Congrats, Peanut.  Well deserved.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/24/stopping-megatron-earns-charles-tillman-player-of-the-week-award/

A Pro Bowl lock if he stays healthy and playing at this level.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 25, 2012, 08:10:14 am
Interesting article for those of us frustrated by the lack of p*ss-and-vinegar shown by the Bears OL the last few years:

http://www.csnchicago.com/football-chicago-bears/bears-talk/Bears-OL-getting-nasty--too-nasty?blockID=793119&feedID=10330

Chris Williams' "softness" was well documented and I believe that, more than anything, sealed his fate with Tice.  Webb also was a bit too fat-n-happy until after the Packers game this year (amazing what being called out on live national TV can do to motivate a guy, huh?) 

Slowly but surely, Tice, Emery and I would argue even Cutler are returning our OL to the hard-nosed identity that fits the Bears tradition.  In terms of talent level man-for-man, there are definitely still questions but at least this unit is finally playing with some fire that hasn't been there since the days Kreutz was in his prime.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 25, 2012, 08:33:41 am
Hmmm. So they are overly agressive and still suck. Sorry, I am being overly agressive this morning. ::) ::) ::) :P
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 25, 2012, 08:40:11 am
Actually, the article I linked to said a recent ranking of the Bears OL had them still way at the bottom for pass protection, but 6th best in the league for run blocking.  So somehow that averages out to being the 22nd best OL in the league which is still not playoff caliber but is at least 5 or 6 spots higher than they were at this time last year.

We can wish all we want for more talented players on the OL but until this offseason comes that ain't gonna happen.  The window is closed. But if the guys we do have are finally playing hard, showing some pride and earning Cutler's confidence, that's a step in the right direction anyway.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 25, 2012, 09:11:54 am
I think SOME of our poor O-line pass blocking can be attributed to Cutler not always having guys open downfield.  Hester has never been accused of being a good route runner and he offers a small target,  Bennett has missed most of the season, Jeffrey only recently was starting to earn the trust of cutler - now he's out, our TEs, as receivers, have been inconsistent.

Compare our defense to the ones we face.  Our defense typically leaves open zones to the opponents QB.  If the Bears don't generate pressure on the QB most likely he will find somebody open as the Bears drop into their zones.  I understand we don't play cover 2 all the time but we do play it a lot.

Cutler, on the other hand, most often faces man to man coverage, which means he needs to wait for some kind of separation and even then he often times has to thread a needle unless he's throwing to Marshall where he has more margin for error.

Not being critical of our defense - often times its frustrating to watch receivers catching balls all alone but obviously it's working.  And I think if we can stay healthy and get Jeffrey and Bennett out there with Marshall we'll see the passing game click.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 25, 2012, 09:20:08 am
Yeah it's kind of a catch-22 (no pun intended).

You'd like to see our RBs and TEs getting out into the pattern more often, which theoretically at least would increase the chance somebody will be open and reduce the time Cutler has to hold on to the ball.  Therefore reducing the amount of time our OL has to hold their blocks.

OTOH if we put our RBs and TEs into the pattern we leave all the pass protection up to our OL and at that point more often than not Cutler is lucky if he has 2 seconds before he has to get rid of the ball or take off on foot.

So on many of our pass plays we are rolling the dice that someone will get open before the pocket breaks down and when the pocket can potentially be breaking down in 2 seconds or less, the odds of winning that bet are mighty slim.  I still hold my breath and cross my fingers every time Cutler audibles to an empty backfield set.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 25, 2012, 04:22:29 pm
Watching Peanut against CJ Monday night I had to wonder how much it has helped Tillman to be taking all those practice reps against a guy who's almost as big (Marshall).  I know Marshall has said something publicly about becoming better from practicing against Peanut so I expect the opposite holds.

Iron sharpens iron, and if that's the case then hopefully our OL will continue to benefit from working against our DL as well.  We haven't seen those results as quickly or dramatically as we've seen with Marshall and Tillman but I have to believe it is happening to some degree regardless.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on October 26, 2012, 06:16:16 am
C'mon Earl - wear the uniform...

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/30155/Earl-Bennett-fined-for-wearing-orange-cleats/Default.aspx

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on October 26, 2012, 07:56:47 am
C'mon Earl - wear the uniform...

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/30155/Earl-Bennett-fined-for-wearing-orange-cleats/Default.aspx




Just claim that orange is to increase awareness of something. Hell, the whole league looks like a pepto bismal commercial during the entire month of October.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 26, 2012, 09:07:12 am
"It actually came about when I walked in the locker room (before the game), and because I had them in my bag, and I wasn't sure if I was going to wear them," Bennett said Monday. "Then Brandon Marshall was like, 'Let's wear them.' So I just put them on. I probably wouldn't have worn them if he wouldn't have agreed to it."


Here's what Bennett's mom was quoted as saying "If Brandon told you to walk out in traffic would you do that too?"
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 26, 2012, 09:14:38 am
I kinda look at that poop a little differently. If the NFL can wear pnk shoes whenever they want then why cant the Bears wear orange ones when they want? I mean like pink or orange whats the difference? Its what ever suits the league that counts. You know if George went to the league headquarters or called there the whole team might be allowed to wear orange shoes. I think they'd be neat to wear. To me its no difference than wearing white ones. Its the contrast, thats the way I see it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 26, 2012, 09:16:32 am
I think if it matches uniform colors it should be fine.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on October 26, 2012, 09:34:51 am
It's no worse than all the body art these guys wear
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 26, 2012, 09:47:18 am
The burning question I have that escapes me is whether or not Billy "white shoes" Johnson was fined for wearing his pattented trademarks? I sure dont remembering anything like that. It just seems they are singling Bennett out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 26, 2012, 10:21:52 am
and when their hair covers their name, that is worse too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 26, 2012, 11:53:16 am
THAT I agree with.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on October 26, 2012, 06:51:59 pm
I kinda look at that poop a little differently. If the NFL can wear pnk shoes whenever they want then why cant the Bears wear orange ones when they want? I mean like pink or orange whats the difference? Its what ever suits the league that counts. You know if George went to the league headquarters or called there the whole team might be allowed to wear orange shoes. I think they'd be neat to wear. To me its no difference than wearing white ones. Its the contrast, thats the way I see it.

That pink-wear is becoming shameful.  Some guys wear it on one arm or on their shoes, or gloves just be differnent.  It started as a true symbol but the league has let it slide out of control.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 26, 2012, 08:55:41 pm
That pink-wear is becoming shameful.  Some guys wear it on one arm or on their shoes, or gloves just be differnent.  It started as a true symbol but the league has let it slide out of control.

It is, definitely and even more shameful is fining Bears players for wearing orange shoes. Even the NBA doesnt fine players for wearing different brand shoes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on October 27, 2012, 11:13:42 am
Marshall fined also

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/30188/Brandon-Marshall--Earl-Bennett-fined-for-orange-cleats/Default.aspx

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 27, 2012, 03:48:14 pm
Time for Uncle George to step in
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 30, 2012, 11:09:15 am
Interesting...  another big WR added to the PS:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4679718/source-bears-to-add-wr-to-practice-squad

Guess the days of midget WRs in Chi-town are just about over. 

Marshall 6'4+
Jeffery 6'3
Radway (PS) 6'3
Aiken (PS) 6'2
Anderson (PS) 6'1
Bennett 6'0

Happy to see it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 30, 2012, 04:09:29 pm
I really hope this happens.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/30/bears-could-get-alshon-jeffery-back-sooner-than-expected/

Beating the Texans without two big-bodied WRs will be monumentally difficult.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 30, 2012, 05:24:10 pm
I'm wondering if Emery sleeps through the trading deadline or the Bears do something to bolster the OLine
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 30, 2012, 05:40:31 pm

My guess...zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 30, 2012, 05:42:30 pm
Being thats sad on its own meritt, I have to agree
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 30, 2012, 05:47:00 pm
If my memory serves correctly the Bears sent personnel to SB to watch the ND OLine. Former Bears OLine coach Harry Heistand is the line coach at ND. So maybe the Bears get some help at OLine in the draft next year with the help of Heistand.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 30, 2012, 06:48:15 pm
HA HA HAAA, oh that's funny stuff, wshful!! hilarious!!! TOO funny!!  (http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac232/drdoolittle/Icons%20Animated/th_AnimatedGIF-DogLaughing.gif)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on October 30, 2012, 07:27:09 pm
They're coming to take Wshfl away ha haa, they're coming to take Wshfl away ha ha hee hee ho ho to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time and he'll be happy to see those nice young men in those clean white coats.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 30, 2012, 09:17:37 pm
3 reasons I doubt Emery does anything with the trade deadline:
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 30, 2012, 09:40:03 pm
I'd trade Hester in a New York second
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 30, 2012, 09:46:08 pm
HA HA HAAA, oh that's funny stuff, wshful!! hilarious!!! TOO funny!!  (http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac232/drdoolittle/Icons%20Animated/th_AnimatedGIF-DogLaughing.gif)

I'm glad to have tickled your funny bone. Yeah there is a lot of humorous stuff in there. Heistand was a joke here. OTOH he seems to have done a job on making that OLine of theirs productive.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on October 31, 2012, 02:49:26 am

 Sporty/Wish
 
 Here ya go ...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 31, 2012, 08:32:58 am
I'm seeing chatter on the blogs today linking the Bears to possible trades for Chiefs RT Erik Winston (considered one of the best RTs in the game), and/or Titans TE Jared Cook (pass catching TE who is reportedly not getting reps and has asked to be moved).

Anyone else heard likewise?

Not sure exactly what we'd trade with unless it's a player of ours or two. If we trade any more 2013 draft picks then next year's draft is already pretty much over for us. 

The Cook trade would be especially weird if it happened considering we play the Titans in a few days.  He is a physical freak.  6'5 245, 10+ inch hands, and his combine numbers included a 4.49 40, a 41-inch vertical and 23 reps on the bench.  That all being said, Winston might be the better trade of the two for us in terms of immediate impact.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 31, 2012, 09:09:40 am
about the only folks we have of trade value would be maybe a WR, DL or Hester.
I think they are all more valuable to us than anyone else.
I would also expect KC wouldn't want to trade a player for player and would want draft picks so they can get some young talent in the pipeline.

I want to leave our 1 & 2 picks alone, if we can upgrade using a later round pick then that would be fine with me but I doubt they bite.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on October 31, 2012, 09:19:25 am
They are likely to lose Bowe next year so a WR might be attractive to them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 31, 2012, 09:21:56 am
Good points about the Chiefs.  They already have plenty of speed burners so they wouldn't' be interested in Hester, and they play a 3-4 defense so none of our D-Linemen would be of much use to them.  Winston would probably cost us our 2nd rounder, especially if the Chiefs believe we'll be picking low in the round.  WRs, well, Marshall, Jeffery and Bennett aren't going anywhere so that basically leaves us shopping Sanzenbacher or Weems and those guys have next to no trade value whatsoever.

As far as Cook, the deal I saw rumored there was Okoye (who now appears to be back out of favor with the coaches), and either Spaeth or Kellen Davis.

My gut says nothing's gonna happen before the deadline and we'll ride out the season with pretty much the players we've got.  But Emery has surprised us before.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on October 31, 2012, 09:34:57 am
If our plan is to draft OL next time could we do better in the draft with a low 2nd than Winston? If you think no then trading that 2nd for him would not be a bad move.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 31, 2012, 09:39:32 am
I would seriously doubt that the Bears would trade for Winston to replace Carimi.

First of all, I don't think Carimi's play has been that bad.  Second, he only has about half a season of NFL experience.  Three, he is a first round draft pick.  Four, I think he has a special bond with Tice.  Five, if Winston is such a highly rated RT the cost of acquiring him would be way too costly (2nd round pick?).  Six, Winston has given up 3 sacks this year with 5 penalties.  Carimi 4.5 sacks with 7 penalties. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 31, 2012, 09:45:30 am
There may be some here that disagree with me but IMHO I have no problem trading for a RT, but what bothers me is we need a LT more than we need a RT. Carimi for Winston? Truthfully I can live with Carimi and RTs are more plentiful and easier to come by than LTs. I'd still like to make a run at Jake Long.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 31, 2012, 09:49:02 am
The Cook deal would be a bit more appealing.   But if Cook thought he was being ignored in Tennessee (28/373 13.3 w/ 2 TDs) he's not going to like Chicago where all our TEs haven't even caught half that many passes!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 31, 2012, 09:53:08 am
My concern would be the blocking we would potentially lose with Cook as his playing time would presumably come at the expense of Spaeth and/or Kellen. 

You look at Cook's measurables and figure he could be a monster in the right offense, but I'm not sure ours is the "right offense"...  at least until and unless we don't need so much help from our TEs in the blocking game.

Cook would be a great pickup if our OL were 100% squared away, but it's not.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on October 31, 2012, 10:08:00 am
There may be some here that disagree with me but IMHO I have no problem trading for a RT, but what bothers me is we need a LT more than we need a RT. Carimi for Winston? Truthfully I can live with Carimi and RTs are more plentiful and easier to come by than LTs. I'd still like to make a run at Jake Long.

I have no doubt that the Bears could explore options to upgrade LT in the off season but this season isn't over yet and I just don't think there will be any trades affecting our O-line.  They are ALL learning new positions.  This is Webb's 2nd year at LT.  Rachal has 3 or 4 games at LG.  Louis maybe has a season at RG under his belt.  Carimi 8 or 9 games at RT.  Even Garza is just starting his 2nd year at center.   Hopefully they can get it together before they start facing some tougher defenses - they're just too incosistent right now.

But those last 2 drives Sunday gave me some hope.  The Panthers knew the Bears were passing and still couldn't get to Cutler.  And that excuse about the Panthers being tired is crap - the Panthers defense hardly was on the field for the first 3 quarters.

As for Jake Long, I don't know his situation in Miami.   Is he a FA?  Can the Dolphins tag him?   Can't see why a team with a young promising QB would just let a quality LT just walk away.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 31, 2012, 10:12:29 am
I thought somebody said Long's contract was coming to an end soon, this year or next maybe.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 31, 2012, 10:42:43 am
Can't see why a team with a young promising QB would just let a quality LT just walk away.

That's the thing.  The best thing that could have happened for any team coveting Jake Long would have been for the Fins to have a terrible season and Tannehill to be a total and obvious flop.  Which would potentially have led to the firing of the GM and a parting-out of the team to collect draft picks for rebuilding.  But the exact opposite is happening.  The Fins are a game out of 1st in their division, notching some quality wins and Tannehill is earning rave reviews.  As long as things keep looking up I have to think they will be keeping the band together down in South Florida and Long will not be coming onto the market under any circumstances.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on October 31, 2012, 12:19:27 pm
if you have even an above average LT, you have to keep him.
I would have said the same thing about a franchise QB (Cutler) or WR (Marshall) though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 31, 2012, 12:38:31 pm
Can't see why a team with a young promising QB would just let a quality LT just walk away.

That's the thing.  The best thing that could have happened for any team coveting Jake Long would have been for the Fins to have a terrible season and Tannehill to be a total and obvious flop.  Which would potentially have led to the firing of the GM and a parting-out of the team to collect draft picks for rebuilding.  But the exact opposite is happening.  The Fins are a game out of 1st in their division, notching some quality wins and Tannehill is earning rave reviews.  As long as things keep looking up I have to think they will be keeping the band together down in South Florida and Long will not be coming onto the market under any circumstances.

On the other hand Cleveland isnt doing so hot, so maybe they part with Oline talent
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 31, 2012, 12:46:55 pm
Joe Thomas?

He's the OL version of Larry Fitzgerald or Steven Jackson...  All-Pro player wasting his career on a dreadful small-market team.  I'm sure he'd jump at the thought of being a Bear and as a Wisconsin alum you know he can ball in the cold.  And he's just hitting his prime at 27 years old.

In certain respects an even more appealing player than Jake Long, but he'd cost us as much in draft picks and players as Cutler did.  Maybe more. 

Now, the Browns also have a young C who is very highly regarded (Alex Mack, 26 yrs old), and since Garza has been struggling this year we might get more bang for our buck by upgrading the middle of the line with Mack (at a much lower price than Thomas), and addressing OT via the draft.

I'm still hoping for the best for this unit, but if our OL winds up costing us a Superbowl appearance -- or even a deep playoff run -- don't doubt for a minute that Emery will take note.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on October 31, 2012, 04:11:08 pm
Replacing Garza at center with Mack and shifting Garza back to RG might be helpful. But you still would have to keep a TE to protect Webb at LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 31, 2012, 04:19:58 pm
I think Garza's done as a Bear after this year, unless Emery deems him worth keeping as a backup for his versatility.  We saw what happens when you hang on to an O-Lineman for too long (Kreutz, Pace) and I see Emery getting younger at the C position sooner than later. 

In any event, him moving back to RG is a moot point. That's Lance Louis' position now. He's been our most dependable O-Lineman all year and in fact I wouldn't be surprised if he gets an extension this offseason. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on October 31, 2012, 07:52:22 pm
Yes Gracia's play is in decline.  Time for him to go.  We seem to wait to long.  I wouldn't mind seeing Spencer get a shot at the position, sooner than later.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on October 31, 2012, 07:58:21 pm
I think some of you are over reacting a bit. 

The Bears need a LG and LT in the worst way but the rest of the line is at least serviceable.  The entire offense was terrible Sunday.  It happens.  I am betting they bounce back against the Titans. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on October 31, 2012, 08:11:29 pm
FWIW I believe Garza is under contract through next season. We know that Emery hates paying starter money to 2nd stringers so thats why I think he may be leaving before his contract is up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on October 31, 2012, 09:44:12 pm
Yes Gracia's play is in decline.  Time for him to go.  We seem to wait to long.  I wouldn't mind seeing Spencer get a shot at the position, sooner than later.

Who the heck is Gracia????  LOL  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 01, 2012, 10:00:34 am
Props to Peanut:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/01/charles-tillman-nabs-nfc-defensive-player-of-the-month/

Keep doin what you do and stay healthy, bro.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on November 01, 2012, 11:41:47 am
Mad that the trib is no longer free online. Rediculous what they are asking!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 01, 2012, 11:53:40 am
What's funny is that I can still read the "premium" Tribune articles on my HP tablet for free. 

There's a black square over top of the articles but it's transparent enough I can read through it.

On a PC though I'm SOL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 01, 2012, 01:48:31 pm
I seem to be able to read anything I want online.
Any links that I should be paying?

I've never paid but I did register awhile back.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on November 01, 2012, 05:45:45 pm
Appleton PG and Milwaukee JS are premium but I get plenty of news elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 01, 2012, 09:09:40 pm

Ditto what nav said.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 02, 2012, 06:51:54 am
Yea I registered for free and can still read it but the trend is not good. More toward a paid model which in reality makes no sense. People will gravitate to the free content. But the trend is toward a paid model. I'm not going to pay for news, sorry. If I want a paper, I'll pay for it but otherwise I'll find free online news or just watch it on TV. The greed of media companies is going to ruin the net. Over half of a 'news' site is already ads to begin with! Try watching a video, get a 30 sec stinkin ad to watch first. So TIRED of all the advertising!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on November 02, 2012, 07:18:38 am
Yep, I got blocked this morning and a pop up said I have read my 5 free artciles for the month.  I guess the trib is off the reading list for awhile until they peel that back.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 02, 2012, 08:24:54 am
Meh...  there's a lot better sources of Bears info out there than the Trib and they're free too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 02, 2012, 10:02:23 am
Ouch

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4679823/nfl-fines-conte-21k-for-hit-on-lafell

21K is a chunk for a 3rd round draft pick on his rookie contract.  I hope he can at least get it reduced on appeal.  And/or maybe some of the high-paid Bears defensive vets could chip in a bit to soften the blow.

Didn't see the play in question but it must have been a hell of a hit to draw that kind of fine.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 02, 2012, 11:43:57 am
Remember that hit and remember saying that was ridiculous that he was penalized for it. It was called a hit on a defenseless wideout or some crap. In regular NFL books, it was a good, clean, very solid hit. Did not look cheap or anything like that. He was out to nail that reciever for sure but there wasn't anything bad about it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 02, 2012, 11:45:54 am
there are a lot of hits that are hard to call. If you are committed to the hit, the WR just before impact is going to duck and that will many times cause helmet to helmet.
I thought they actually picked the flag up on that hit and called it legal.

They just need to start aiming for the midsection instead of the chest.
We were taught in Jr high (late 80s) to aim for the midsection and slide your head to the side where the ball is.
Hit, wrap, drive.....hit, wrap, drive....hit, wrap, drive.... that is still ringing in my ears. I heard it over and over for 3 seasons.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 02, 2012, 11:58:52 am
I thought they actually picked the flag up on that hit and called it legal.

This is what really grinds me about what the NFL has become.

There are plays that aren't flagged on the field, but later draw fines.  And there are other plays that are flagged, but no fine is assessed.

If the officials who were in the moment didn't consider a hit worthy of a flag, then I don't think the league office should be able to assess fines after the fact.  By the same token, in the interests of consistency then every unsportsmanlike conduct penalty called in the game should, IMO, be followed up with a fine even if it's just a token amount. 

What you have right now, essentially, is Goodell and his henchmen second-guessing the officiating decision on the field and something about that just doesn't sit well with me at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 02, 2012, 12:00:57 pm
Hit, wrap, drive.....hit, wrap, drive....hit, wrap, drive.... that is still ringing in my ears. I heard it over and over for 3 seasons.

Tackling as a whole has pretty much become a lost art.  The times you see a ballcarrier actually contacted, wrapped up, driven backwards and taken to the ground are few and far between anymore.  It happens so infrequently in the NFL that it really gets your attention when you do see it.  Hardin might be on the field for us this season instead of on the IR if he had been more fundamentally sound in that regard.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on November 02, 2012, 12:01:40 pm
The flag was not picked up.  He did not go helemt to helmet.  He lead with his shoulder but they ruled he hit a defenseless receiver.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 02, 2012, 12:30:31 pm
Somebody on another blog posted that Conte's game check is a little under $28K -- before taxes.  So basically Conte played last Sunday for free, and on a highly questionable call to begin with.

That ain't right. How many of us could absorb the loss of an entire paycheck cause we made an honest mistake just trying to do our job? If Goodell is gonna go all apesh*t crazy on the fines then they need to be assessed on a sliding scale relative to the player's pay.

But I suppose he's gotta start building up that war chest for the hundreds of concussion lawsuit payouts that are coming down the pike.   ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on November 02, 2012, 07:27:21 pm
Yapper - What other news sites do you use for Bears news?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 02, 2012, 09:36:24 pm
My main source these days is the Bears blog on ESPN Chicago.

Also some good links to Bears news in Bleacher Report.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 03, 2012, 01:31:44 am

I kind of remember the Conte hit.  Wasn't another Bear bringing down the receiver at the same time which forced the receiver to lower his head right into Conte's helmet?

Then I just read that Lovie Smith got an explanation from the league for the fine and agreed with it.  So much for Conte's appeal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on November 03, 2012, 08:06:50 am
Thumbs up on ESPN blogs.  One thing I noticed was that my NFL filter opened up a little being moree exposed to more league info.  Normally, I open the Trib, the Pro Football talk, and this website.  Read a lot more about other teams this morning.

Bleacher report was more thumbs meh so far.  Kind of a pain with the F150 background slowing navigation on the page, I could hear my laptop sing everytime I moved from page to page.  Perhaps it will be better as I learn to navigate the site better.

The trib can suck it if they think I am going to shell out $15/month for their content.  Notice to trib.  I am out of town and don't need e-book downloads, tribune newsletters, or VIP access to tribune event tickets.  I am only going to read the sports section.  Carve out a little $3.00/month access to the Chicagosports page with pay per access to the other pages and you will have me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on November 03, 2012, 07:20:56 pm
The MSM loses some more $.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 04, 2012, 01:48:17 am
My 5th article of the month:

If Mike Tice went home last Sunday night looking for consolation after a game-winning two-minute drive saved the day for his sleep-inducing offense in a victory over the Panthers, he didn't find it from his wife.

"Like Diane said, 'What did you do in those other 58 minutes?' '' the Bears offensive coordinator said.

Tough crowd. Wonder what happens when Tice forgets to take out the garbage.
 
Tice's revelation naturally led to a follow-up question: Can your wife coach?

"Yeah,'' Tice said. "She can tell me I have to put the toilet seat down.''

Laughter ensued. Nobody at Halas Hall dazzles an audience like Tice, the man in the organization most on the spot as the Bears hit midseason. For the Bears to continue to be considered legitimate Super Bowl contenders, the substance of Tice's disappointing offense must match his personal style beginning Sunday against the NFL's softest defense. So far, substance trails style by a mile.

We like Mike in Chicago. Tice's promotion from offensive line coach has afforded him a larger stage with wider reach. On it, Tice has stretched, and his open, relaxed approach strikes many as refreshing. To say Tice is the most entertaining assistant coach ever under Lovie Smith is like calling Khloe the shyest Kardashian. Everything's relative. But the 53-year-old native New Yorker's natural, self-deprecating charisma stands out in a building that needs more personality. The only thing Tice seems to fear when talking is running out of material.

Not many of Tice's peers would have poked fun at himself and the infamous Dallas sideline incident the way Tice did when joking that he sat down to quarterback Jay Cutler in the cafeteria — and Cutler didn't get up and walk away. Tice demonstrates blocking techniques and makes funny Kevin Garnett references. He clearly enjoys communicating. Week after week in front of microphones, Tice effortlessly upstages Smith, mixing enough humor with insight that you half-expect him to ask everyone to tip the wait staff.

Watching Tice regularly cast such a presence makes it easy to envision the consummate big-picture guy as an NFL head coach again as early as next season. A lot of men make better assistants than head coaches. Is the opposite true for Tice?

Before any NFL general manager considers testing that theory, Tice must prove he can get the job done as Bears offensive coordinator.

That has yet to happen.

In terms of yardage, the Bears rank 26th. Take away six defensive touchdowns and the Bears offense would rank 21st in scoring at 20.1 points per game — worse than the 2011 team that didn't have Brandon Marshall.

A team with a playmaking trio of Cutler, Marshall and Matt Forte cannot use lack of talent as an excuse. The offensive line remains the team's weakest position, but coaching has yet to compensate for mismatches. Please don't insult anybody's intelligence by overstating the absence of rookie wide receiver Alshon Jeffery.

Positives of Tice's impact fall mostly under the category of intangibles. The freedom to call audibles under Tice has given Cutler more flexibility. Tice's tough love helped left tackle J'Marcus Webb overcome a rough start. He delivered a message of accountability when Chilo Rachal replaced struggling left guard Chris Spencer. And nobody ever will know how delicately Tice has had to handle Cutler behind the scenes.

But in a results business, the Bears still are waiting — inconsistency reflected in Cutler's lackluster projection.

"We could be playing this type of ball in December,'' Cutler said. "I can't tell the future.''

In the preseason, many of us thought we could. The new-and-improved offense expected to carry the defense has taken its usual spot in the passenger's seat. The scheming that was supposed to offset shaky pass protection has been sporadic. The quick and clever offensive coordinator we see cracking wise on Wednesdays turns into a predictable, conservative play-caller on Sundays.

Where's the imagination? How hard is it to get Forte the ball more? How about more screen passes?

"We have to freaking make first downs to give people touches,'' Tice said.

First down has been worst, with the Bears averaging a league-low 4.19 yards. So far, Tice is on pace to call a higher percentage of pass plays than Mike Martz did last year. That might sound contrary to who the Bears want to be — if they had an offensive identity.

In typically amusing manner, Tice always talks about asking offensive linemen to avoid being "the guy'' who ruins plays. Similarly, if the Bears' talented offense can't reach its potential in a season when their defense makes winning the NFC realistic, Tice likely will be "the guy'' held most responsible.

And nobody in Chicago will be laughing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 04, 2012, 01:58:11 am
I'm not paying either - but this is my 6th article:


Wright in line for promotion

Early last offseason, Bears safeties coach Gill Byrd received a text.

"I feel this is going to be my year."

And then, "I need you to coach me and be there for me."

The sender was Major Wright. It was the first sign something would be different about Wright in 2012.

He had been working out in Miami with Lions safety Louis Delmas, former NFL defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth and Chargers wide receiver Richard Goodman. When he reported to Halas Hall for offseason work, he weighed 194 pounds, six lighter than his previous playing weight.

But that wasn't all that was different about Wright.

"He came back with a different mindset, to be the best he could possibly be and not leave anything out there," Byrd said. "He's doing more studying. Asking more questions. He is focusing more than he did three years ago or two years ago, and it's showing in his play."

After the Bears chose him in the third round of the 2010 draft, Wright's first two years in the NFL were a struggle. He was shuffled back and forth from free safety to strong. When he was made a starter last year, he performed unevenly and didn't stay healthy.

And then, in the offseason, the light bulb went on.

"I knew what type of player I can be," he said. "Those first two years, I wasn't playing like Major. Seeing that on film, I was like, I can't go through another season without giving this team all I've got."

On Sunday in Nashville, Tenn., the Titans are likely to see a confident, gifted young safety who is a force in the box and can make plays on the ball. His transformation from a player who appeared to lack instincts and awareness has been remarkable.

Byrd said Wright has been better at reading his keys, staying disciplined, adjusting on the run, communicating and knowing where he is supposed to be.

Wright feels faster at his new playing weight. It has helped that he has been able to concentrate on strong safety, which is what he was drafted to play.

"I know the formations, the offenses, the things they can do against our defense," Wright said. "I'm a little more aware. I know the defense, what I'm doing now, so they can do more with me. And they have been getting loose with the defense, doing more zone pressures, more (Cover-3), more things to try to confuse the offenses."

It wouldn't be possible for the Bears to do that if they didn't have confidence in him.

"Major has hit home now," Byrd said. "I'm proud of him."

Numbers games: Pro Bowl Streaks

Come January 27, Lance Briggs could have an exclusive streak.

As of now, the linebacker has played in seven straight Pro Bowls. That is the longest streak of any NFL defender.

The only active player in the league who has played in more consecutively is Chargers tight end Antonio Gates with eight. Given his performance so far this year, it is safe to say his streak might be in jeopardy, so Briggs could equal his accomplishment.

Briggs has a long way to go to catch the record holder, however. Defensive end Reggie White played in 13 straight.

Brigg's is tied for third best among all-time Bears. center Jay Hilgenberg also played in seven straight, as did defensive end Doug Atkins.

This season Briggs can tie Dick Butkus, who played in eight straight. Mike Singletary holds the team record with 10.

Brian Urlacher has been voted to eight Pro Bowls but his streak is only at three. Julius Peppers has been to seven, but his streak is only at four.

Front office chess: Peanut poker

With every award Charles Tillman earns and every big play he makes, he gives the Bears a more difficult decision.

Tillman has one year left on his contract after this season. He is scheduled to earn $8 million in 2013, which would make him the fourth highest-paid player on the team as of now.

When the Bears signed him to a six-year contract in 2007, they never intended to pay a 32-year-old cornerback in a zone scheme $8 million in the last year of his contract. The last season was added as an incentive either to restructure his deal or cut him.

But now Tillman is playing like an $8 million corner. Whether or not he can continue to play like that next year is the question general manager Phil Emery will have to ask himself.

Complicating matters is the Bears also might have to sign Jay Cutler to a massive extension, and the salary cap is expected to shrink by about $10 million.

Keeping Tillman's contract in place is one option. Restructuring and extending is another, but it likely would not be any more economical for the Bears. The third option would be cutting him.

With the way Tillman is playing now, cutting him doesn't seem like an attractive option.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 04, 2012, 02:08:21 am

Passion and compassion — two sides of Jay Cutle
r

Jay Cutler and Trey Holloway lost touch after their playing days at Vanderbilt. But years later, Cutler still managed to touch Holloway's heart.

In February 2011, Holloway's 22-year-old brother, Wilson, died after a three-year bout with Hodgkin's lymphoma. Wilson was an offensive tackle at Tulsa and a high school basketball teammate and close friend of Clippers star Blake Griffin.

Although Wilson's story later was publicized nationally, Trey Holloway didn't share the devastating news immediately. But somehow, Cutler became aware almost instantaneously.

"Jay sent flowers to my mom's house in Oklahoma,'' Holloway recalled. "It was good to know that even though we hadn't talked on the phone for a while, he was thinking about me and my family at that point in our lives. To know that he still thought about you makes you feel a lot better about things.''

Holloway, Cutler's former center and now a consultant in the Washington area, witnessed the compassionate side of the Bears quarterback long ago. The day after Christmas 2004, Vanderbilt starting running back Kwane Doster was shot and killed in his hometown of Tampa, Fla. Cutler was home in Santa Claus, Ind., at the time.

Holloway remembered how Cutler rallied the team captains and encouraged players to return to Nashville, Tenn., immediately. The NCAA allowed Vanderbilt a special exemption for the team to take a charter to Doster's funeral. More than 60 players made the trip.

"That was a tough situation for the whole team,'' Holloway said. "A lot of people don't remember this but there was discussion that Jay could leave early to go to the NFL. He ended up deciding to stay, which worked out great for him in the long run. That was a really big boost for that team, to know that we're going to have our quarterback back after going through that tough holiday period.''

The Bears' return to Nashville on Sunday to face the Titans is certain to bring back some fond memories for Cutler. He downplayed the homecoming during his weekly news conference. But the 29-year-old quarterback offered a different perspective about returning to familiar surroundings when the topic was raised during a conference call with Nashville-area reporters.

"To get back to Nashville and see some people I haven't seen in a while, it'll be a good time,'' Cutler said.

Holloway knows how special the Music City is to his former college roommate. It's no secret Cutler owns a home there and frequents the area during the offseason.

"What appealed to him was that it's a little bit of a bigger place (than his hometown) but it also has that country feel to it,'' Holloway said. "You could get outside of the city from campus and it looked a lot like where he was from.

"(Also,) even though he was big-time college player there and is now a starting quarterback in the NFL, he can kind of blend in there. They have all the country music stars. People are just used to seeing country music folks. And he can go there and people will see him, but they're not going to bother him.''

Bears receiver Earl Bennett, who played one season with Cutler at Vanderbilt, couldn't confirm that Cutler was inconspicuous in Nashville. But Bennett quickly became aware of how his friend was received despite the Commodores' football futility.

Cutler won just 11 games in 45 starts. He left the school a winner after his touchdown toss to Bennett on his final pass led Vanderbilt to a 28-24 triumph over Tennessee — the program's first victory over the Volunteers in 23 years.

"We really didn't go out a lot because I was a freshman and he was a senior, but I know the city loved Jay,'' Bennett said. "What he brought to Vanderbilt and what he did there his five years was awesome. That city really embraced him.''

Larry Leathers, Vanderbilt's sports information director, who started working at the school at the same time Cutler came in, agreed with Bennett's assessment.

"The people here absolutely love him because he showed remarkable determination and toughness,'' Leathers said. "There is a lot of respect in this community for him. And the community doesn't know him much more than Chicago does. That's just not who Jay Cutler is. He doesn't let people in that much.''

Holloway saw a side of Cutler few others did.

When he first entered Vanderbilt as a defensive lineman, Holloway figured David Koral, a highly touted recruit from California, would be the quarterback leading Vanderbilt for years to come. Then the kid from Indiana who had a scholarship offer from the University of Illinois rescinded showed up.

"I was thinking to myself, 'Who's this Cutler kid? He's never going to play,' '' Holloway said.

Koral transferred to UCLA after Vanderbilt went through a coaching change. Players then gravitated to Cutler, who showed his rare ability in practice and displayed leadership skills despite being an underclassman.

Cutler was the one who convinced Holloway to switch from defense to the offensive line. Holloway gained even more respect for Cutler when the two roomed together in the summer of 2004.

"Jay was just competitive at everything,'' Holloway said. "We'd play Halo on Xbox for hours. He was pretty good at it, but he wasn't the best.''

Cutler was the neat freak of the two, although Holloway refused to label himself messy. The pair often dined at LongHorn Steakhouse just because it was convenient. And although Holloway stayed out of Cutler's personal life, he was aware of Cutler's approach to the dating scene.

"Because he was the starting quarterback, there was a certain fascination level there (from women), as there would be on any college campus,'' Holloway said. "He had a girlfriend or two in college, but he was always very measured. He wasn't running around wild or anything.''

Nothing revealed more to Holloway about Cutler than their frequent trips to Cutler's parents' place, which was about 21/2 hours from campus. Santa Claus isn't the most diverse area and is located in a county that is 98 percent white. Holloway, who is black, felt at home regardless.

Cutler and his family didn't see color.

"Going home for me was like a 10-hour drive, so I'd just go home with him on the holidays'' Holloway said. "We'd hang in his house. We'd hang by the lake on the Fourth of July. We'd go to church on Easter Sunday with his family then come back to his house to eat.

"One of the guys — Otis Washington — actually spent an extra week there at the house after Jay went back to school in Nashville. And Otis is black.''

As impressed as he was with how open-minded Cutler was off the field, Cutler's passion on it was equally moving. Holloway laughed when asked his thoughts on how Cutler's shove and berating of tackle J'Marcus Webb during a game in September became a hot topic of debate.

Holloway saw the same fire in Nashville.

"He would definitely get on guys if he felt they weren't doing what they needed to do,'' Holloway said. "That's his job. That's what a quarterback is supposed to do.

"I don't think he ever had to get on me because I was always doing what I was supposed to be doing. He knew he could count on me.

"And his mom even told me, before I even played a down of center, 'He's so glad you're over there because he knows he can count on you.' "

Those flowers Holloway's mother received nearly two years ago proved Cutler could be counted on too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on November 04, 2012, 05:33:30 am
Dallas - Thanks for posting those articles.  All good reads
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on November 04, 2012, 07:31:29 am
Dallasbear, thank you for posting the articles.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 04, 2012, 08:21:47 am
Dallas, thank you for posting those articles.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on November 04, 2012, 08:44:20 am
Ditto. Great reads. Sorry about your day on the town Griz. Get some beer at the flying saucer? Nashville is great for crowds, I was stunned the first time we went to a hockey game.  Sooooo easy to get in, parked, seated and after the game, bang, out the door and down good ole' 65.  The Bears better win today. Otherwise Monday a work will be brutal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 06, 2012, 08:12:28 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/06/knox-not-expected-to-be-activated-from-pup-today/

As expected, doesn't look like Knox will play this year.

I personally doubt he ever plays again -- or if he does, will have lost so much speed as to be ineffective -- but by the sounds of this article it sounds like the Bears are trying to do right by him anyway, financially.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 06, 2012, 08:16:14 am
Just think if Knox does get healthy and come back next year....and we get upgrades on the OL.....
Marshall, Jeffrey, Knox, Bennett, Hester......
We need Hester to get his mojo back on returns because our WR field might be crowded next year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 06, 2012, 08:38:47 am
We cannot keep saying 'next year we'll do thus and so'. Our D is getting older and yes, it WILL hit us one of these years. Probably about the time they finally get it figured out they need quality offensive linemen. THEN we'll be dealing with a declining defense and the misery switches fences. If they'd only frigging figure out what most of us already see and understand- THEY NEED BETTER OFFENSIVE LINEMEN!!!! Last draft would have been a good spot to start fixing this HUH, EMERY....this year falters, we can pin alot of it on Angie but some goes to Emery for failing to get the help we need.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 06, 2012, 08:39:37 am
I still can't help but think Hester may not finish his career as a Bear.

If by some miracle Knox can come back full speed to give us a deep threat and Emery has a chance to package Hester as part of a deal to land a premier LT... I think that's something Emery has to at least give serious consideration.

OTOH, given what he's done this year as both a returner and a WR I doubt he'd be worth more than about a 5th rounder to anyone at this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 06, 2012, 09:13:35 am
Hester will be 30 next year.   His numbers are pretty meager for a starting WR in the NFL.  Punt return numbers are pretty good and kick off numbers are better...but a 5th rounder?  I say keep him in Chicago.

As for Knox, the fact that he's not even running at this point is not good to hear for his long term outlook, let alone this year.   But no one knows how this will turn out.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 06, 2012, 09:16:31 am

Even if Johnny Knox doesn't return to the practice field by Tuesday's deadline, it doesn't mean his Bears career is over.

The wide receiver, who is working to return from spinal fusion surgery from an injury suffered in December against the Seahawks, said last month he still had not run full speed, making it a long shot for him to be back in the mix this week.

If he cannot begin a practice window by Tuesday, he will not be able to return to the active roster this season.

But the Bears don't have to cut ties with Knox, either. The club has stuck with him this long and although Knox is in the final year of his rookie deal, the Bears can keep him next season if he spends the entire season on the physically unable to perform list. Per the collective bargaining agreement, they would have to pay him $1.26 million in 2013 — the same amount they are paying him this season.

So Knox basically has 51/2 months to rehabilitate until the opening of the offseason program and 81/2 months until training camp when he could have a chance to prove himself again. The Bears have missed his downfield ability. He has averaged 16.6 yards per reception throughout his career, which began as a fifth-round draft pick in 2009.

Nickel for your thoughts: Lovie Smith has been giving high praise to cornerback Kelvin Hayden, who has been splitting time with D.J. Moore at nickel back. Smith said the playing time distribution "may be a little different this week," suggesting the team could pick one player and stick with him. Perhaps Hayden is pulling away with the job. Both were credited with two tackles versus the Titans and Hayden had two fumble recoveries.

"If we have a player we think we can win with and after we play them they make some plays for us, we're going to play them," Smith said.

Extra points: Smith continues to hint wide receiver Alshon Jeffery, who has missed three games with a broken hand, will return soon. It could be Jeffery is back on the practice field later this week. He also downplayed injuries to defensive linemen Henry Melton (back) and Israel Idonije (knee). … Smith said three sacks of quarterback Jay Cutler were too many but absolved the offensive line, suggesting fault lies with tight ends, backs and/or Cutler. … Chris Johnson's 80-yard touchdown run did damage to the Bears' defensive ranking. They entered Sunday No. 1 in the NFL versus the run and now stand sixth, allowing 88 yards per game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 06, 2012, 09:20:17 am
Smith said three sacks of quarterback Jay Cutler were too many but absolved the offensive line, suggesting fault lies with tight ends, backs and/or Cutler.

I watched the first half of the offense last night.  The only breakdown I noticed was the hands to the face by Webb for the safety.  The sack/fumble by Cutler was not the O-line's fault.

Even though it wasn't a sack the Carimi play in the 2nd half where he fell asleep for a count or two after the snap forced a bad 3rd down red zone pass to Bennett.

Jonathon Scott rides the bench another week.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 06, 2012, 09:43:08 am
Assuming Knox is done, it will be interesting to see if Emery picks up a speed burner at some point in our next draft.

Once we have an OL that can pass protect for more than 1.5 seconds, the next step towards evolving our offense is to have a reliable deep threat that can take the top off the defense.  Irregardless of whether Hester gets dealt or just has another year of age of him, we need someone besides him to fill that role next year and going forward.

Seems to me 4th round or so would be the perfect time to take a flyer (pun intended) on a kid that can really get down the field. If Emery is willing to take a chance on a WR with some warts (skinny build, small school, off-field concerns, whatever), you can usually find some speed guys in the mid rounds.  Johnny Knox was found in the 5th round and while he may never have developed into quite the player we had hoped (even if he hadn't gotten hurt), it's pretty hard to dispute that was a good value pick considering what we got out of him. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 06, 2012, 09:48:14 am
I watched the first half of the offense last night.  The only breakdown I noticed was the hands to the face by Webb for the safety.  The sack/fumble by Cutler was not the O-line's fault.

Even though it wasn't a sack the Carimi play in the 2nd half where he fell asleep for a count or two after the snap forced a bad 3rd down red zone pass to Bennett.


What I want to know is what happened on that one play where we were in max protect and Cutler still wound up on the ground in less than 2 seconds.  That was a total jailbreak and completely inexcusable.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 06, 2012, 09:54:11 am
Knox exceeded expectations for a 5th rounder.

Over 700 yards last year despite 6 games with backup QBs...still averaged almost 20 yards a reception!  And the year before he was 40 yards away from 1000 receiving yards averaging almost 19 yards a catch.

I can only dream of the Bears lining him up someday with Marshall, Jeffery and Bennett.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 06, 2012, 11:13:29 am
The other reason it's a classy move to keep Knox on the roster is cause if the Bears do win it all this year he'll get a ring, even if he never plays again.  It's got to be killing him not to be a part of the run this year.

Hopefully the Bears dedicate this year's Seahawks game to him and kick the 'Hawks ever-loving azz.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on November 06, 2012, 11:20:47 am
He's too fragile... Bears can't have receivers who don't bend - not break
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 06, 2012, 12:00:34 pm
Bears are still 1st against the run. That long run was against the backups.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 06, 2012, 12:06:13 pm
Yeah, the final stat line makes it look like Chris Johnson had his way with us all day long but anyone who watched the game knows that was far from the case.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 06, 2012, 01:03:11 pm
Bearhit, most circus acrobats can't bend like Knox was bent up in that play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 06, 2012, 06:16:05 pm
Just looked up that play that Knox was injured in.....man, that was ugly, wow. It's a wonder he didn't break his back and not walk again. That was terrible looking....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 07, 2012, 08:57:49 am
I haven't watched that Knox play since soon after it happened and I won't again.  It's right up there with the Theisman or Krumrie leg breaks as far as I'm concerned.  I definitely want to see us give the Seahawks payback...  not in terms of a similar injury but just by giving them a good sound thrashing in a few weeks.

Speaking of injuries...  looks like the Packers' 1st round pick may be done for the year.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/07/report-nick-perry-has-surgery-on-wrist/

The health gods have not smiled on the Pack this year, to be sure.  If they didn't have the QB they do, they'd be in big trouble right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 07, 2012, 10:13:13 am
I think today is when they announce the Players of the Week.

Pretty sure Peanut is in line to get another one unless they're tired of giving those awards to Bears by now.   :D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on November 08, 2012, 01:44:57 am
Chris27 will have a fit after this bit of news.....

Urlacher latest to earn NFC defensive honor

 Jeff Dickerson | ESPNChicago.com
Nov 7 10:54AM CT


Chicago Bears middle linebacker Brian Urlacher was named NFC Defensive Player of the Week for Week 9 after his performance in the club's 51-20 victory over the Tennessee Titans that included a 46-yard interception return for a touchdown.

Urlacher earned the honor for the sixth time in his career, tying him with Richard Dent for the most in franchise history.


Urlacher is the second Bear to win the weekly award this season, joining Charles Tillman, who won it twice. Tim Jennings (September) and Tillman (October) have also won NFC Defensive Player of the Month honors.

In addition to Urlacher's Pick-6, the veteran linebacker also recorded seven tackles, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery.

An eight-time Pro Bowl selection and former NFL Defensive Player of the Year (2005), Urlacher last won the NFC Player of the Week award in Week 1 of last season when he had 10 tackles and an interception versus the Atlanta Falcons.

Meantime, Bears cornerback Sherrick McManis grabbed NFC Special Teams Player of the Week honors for Week 9 as he blocked a punt in the first quarter that defensive end Corey Wootton scooped up and returned for a five-yard score. McManis was also credited with a pair of special teams tackles in the blowout win. He is currently tied for third on the team with seven special teams stops.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 08, 2012, 07:48:12 am
Isn't Urlacher on the last year of his contract?

If he keeps playing at this level then an extension is a given.  And you'd really like to see him retire as a Bear in any event.

On the other hand you don't want to tie yourselves to too long of a deal with any player at his age and mileage.

I could see something like a 2-year deal with virtually all of the money guaranteed.

Extending Urlacher and Cutler in the same year could pretty much use up our entire cap but between Emery and Cliff Stein I'm confident we could get something done with both of those guys this coming offseason.  Whether that leaves us enough to also add a premium LT, OTOH, may be another story.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 08, 2012, 09:23:47 am
Thats an interesting question. I heard the cap was to go down too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 08, 2012, 09:49:47 am
The other obvious reason for extending Urlacher is so that he can start training his replacement.

If we can assume that Lovie and his defensive scheme are gonna be around here a few more years (which I think is a given if the team continues its current success), then that MLB position continues to be a critical cog in the D which means we'll need to get Urlacher's replacement in the pipeline before too much longer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 08, 2012, 10:02:42 am
I used IE instead of my usual firefox and was able to access this off the trib:

Nothing low voltage about Watt


One winter night three years ago inside the Kohl Center on the Wisconsin campus, the Badgers football team gathered for a bonding exercise that included a basketball shooting contest.

Former backup quarterback Nate Tice, son of the Bears offensive coordinator Mike, welcomed the fellowship after transferring from Central Florida two weeks earlier.

You might say one new teammate in particular jumped out at him.


"I see this guy 6 feet 5 and 295 pounds rebounding shots and he's wearing jeans, T-shirt with a hat and, flat-footed, he just starts dunking the ball hard enough to rattle the rim over and over and over,'' recalled Tice, now a graduate assistant coach at Pittsburgh. "I was like, 'Who is this guy? I hope he's good because he sure looks the part.'''

These days, J.J. Watt plays the part of the NFL's most dominant pass-rusher for a Super Bowl-caliber Texans team committed Sunday night at Soldier Field to "showing the world what we're about,'' Watt said Wednesday.

If the Bears want to be the defense leaving the biggest impression on a national television audience, they can ill afford to let the man nobody can block control the game.

"He's one of the top players, if not the top player, we've played,'' Mike Tice said of the 23-year-old Sports Illustrated cover boy.

Watt, nicknamed "J.J. Swatt,'' still soars explosively enough with a 37-inch vertical leap to become the first NFL defensive lineman ever to bat down 10 passes through eight games. He still possesses the brute strength Nate Tice witnessed in the weight room that has helped Watt power his way to a league-leading 10 1/2 sacks. He still combines freakish athleticism with uncommon intensity that didn't always endear him to Wisconsin teammates upon his arrival.

After Watt left Central Michigan eventually to walk-on at his home-state school in 2008, he spent a season on the scout team vowing to impress coaches enough to earn a scholarship. Former Wisconsin H-back Mickey Turner, also a Pittsburgh grad assistant, recounted to Nate about the day a coach yelled at him for missing a block on Watt.

"Block the guy, he's on the scout team!'' the coach barked.

"Coach,'' Turner replied. "He's pretty good, you know.''

Before the rest of the Big Ten knew Watt's potential, the Badgers did.

"Some guys on scout team take plays off but they say J.J. was like, 'Screw it, that's my shot, I'm going after it,''' Nate said.

For two full seasons, Watt went after it against Gabe Carimi, the Bears right tackle he occasionally will line up against in the Texans' multiple 3-4 defensive alignment. The Bears hope Carimi can lean on his experience from those Madison days when the two future first-round NFL draft picks developed a mutual respect.

"Two great football players competing every single day,'' Watt recalled to Houston reporters. "Definitely a battle."

Who won more?

"It was pretty even,'' Nate said. "J.J. would win one and Gabe would get the next one. Once in awhile a guy might get frustrated and give a little push but they weren't getting into fights. They got along.''

Expect Carimi's frustration to mount if both former Badgers spend too many snaps opposite one another. Carimi enters Week 10 struggling as much as Watt is soaring; blocking the run better than protecting the passer. At times uncomfortable recalling Watt, Carimi praised his work ethic but sounded as if he preferred to save specific recollections for the reunion.

"We know each other well,'' Carimi acknowledged. "There's not going to be advantages (for me) because he has the same advantage. It's all evened out."

All things even, Nate Tice will root for the Bears, saying, "Family trumps all and the Bears sign the checks.'' Still he feels connected to both his old teammates.

Watt was the first teammate to "Friend'' Nate on Facebook after he enrolled at Wisconsin and the two still communicate weekly. Carimi made a big enough personal impact that Nate predicts confidently that, against the Texans, Chicago will "start to see the Gabe I knew from Wisconsin who mauled people.''

As for his dad, Nate laughed at the notion of telling Mike Tice something about Watt he might not know. When father and son speak, usually after 10 p.m., they rarely talk shop anyway. One memorable football exchange came after an ugly Bears' victory the same weekend Pitt had beaten a Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) school.

"I sent a text, 'Pretty good game, a win's a win,' '' Nate said. "And my dad texted back, 'We can't play an FCS team every week. In the NFL you'll take it any way necessary.' ''

Especially against a Texans defense powered by a familiar source — a Watt as powerful as any player in the league.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 08, 2012, 10:07:31 am
J.J. Watt is Clay Matthews in a bigger, stronger package.

That should be a significant concern for any Bears fan who's watched our OTs this year.

What's he's doing this year in terms of splash plays from the 3-4 DE position is virtually without precedent in the history of the league. 

One thing that does give me some hope is, I read that if the Texans go with their usual M.O., then Watt would spend most of his snaps lined up against Lance Louis, who has been our most solid O-Lineman from game to game this year by far and who definitely has the strength, athleticism and attitude to hold up.  Carimi would obviously be in on some double-teams but it's not like he'd be out there against Watt one-on-one for plays at a time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on November 08, 2012, 01:45:11 pm
Interesting post, dallas.  Thanks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on November 08, 2012, 05:03:38 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/08/wade-phillips-brandon-marshall-is-the-only-receiver-bears-throw-to/

Well if they are truly going to double Marshall every play then it is time for our other WR's to step up.  Jeffries would sure be nice to have back for this game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 08, 2012, 05:18:15 pm

Jefferey is out.  Bennett has been very quiet this season.  I'd like to think Hester will get some more opportunities but its clear to me that Cutler would rather throw to Marshall or Bennett - even if they're not open.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on November 08, 2012, 05:50:42 pm
That's because Hester drops the ball too much.  Even when its in the right place.  Qb's hate throwing to WR that can't catch.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on November 08, 2012, 06:12:23 pm
If Kellen Davis hadn't dropped so many he would be a viable option as well. Cutler just doesn't trust them and righfully so.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 08, 2012, 09:07:54 pm

Good article on Whitney Mercilus in the trib - he's the guy I wanted the Bears to draft in round 1.  He has 3 sacks in the last 2 games...wonder if he gets a start Sunday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 08, 2012, 11:15:06 pm
I was shocked we took McClellin over Mercilus.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 09, 2012, 06:33:28 am
the funny thing about Cutler only throwing to Marshall is teams know that and they still can't stop him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 09, 2012, 08:34:10 am
Which is much the same as what people are saying about the Bears D this year.  Everyone knows what the Bears are gonna do on D, but Urlacher & Co. are executing the scheme at such a high level that it doesn't matter 90% of the time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 09, 2012, 12:00:57 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4680095/cutler-wants-to-retire-a-bear

Wow. Considering his time with the Bears has been marked by:

1) no go-to WRs (until this year)
2) a career's worth of sacks/hits/hurries courtesy of terrible OL play
3) consecutive season-ending injuries
4) constant churn at the OC position and
5) a ridiculous amount of critique from the Chicago media...

 his comments reflect an admirable loyalty.

OTOH he did play on a Broncos team whose terrible D probably cost him a shot at a deep playoff run if not a SuperBowl, so he knows how important that side of the ball is too and that may have more to do with it than anything. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 09, 2012, 12:55:08 pm
I think that is called posturing...
What Jay really meant was "I want the Bears to offer me a big enough contract I can retire a Bear".

the bad/good part is he has only been here a couple years and if he is here like 3 more years he will re-write like every Bear passing record.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 09, 2012, 01:12:34 pm
Actually this is Cutler's 4th season with the Bears, and his 7th in the league.

I know it's hard to believe but it's been that long already.

Barring any more major injuries he's probably got 2-3 more years before his physical skills start to slip, so I hope Emery is feeling some urgency to improve his protection before he's completely used up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 09, 2012, 01:29:55 pm
from what I can see of Emery, he'll bring in a couple of OL guys next year.
He doesn't strike me as the type of guy to not even try to address holes.

Before this season we felt like we had holes at DB,DL,WR,OL.
He filled holes at DB,DL,WR,RB and ST
our only glaring weakness right now is OL.
I expect at least one high draft pick and either an FA or another high draft pick on OL this offseason.
Outside of OL, we need some LB in the pipe if there is good value.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 09, 2012, 01:32:49 pm
Dont forget backup QB. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 09, 2012, 01:42:58 pm
By the end of this season it would be really nice to have confidence in at least ONE of either Webb or Carimi as a long-term solution. Because if the season ended today it would seem the only sensible approach would be to kick both of them to the bench (or off the team), and start from scratch at both OT spots next year.   

To go into 2013 with both OT positions questionable would be a very difficult situation to address, and would likely result in the entire offense regressing at least somewhat early in the season even with highly talented new OTs.  On top of which the C situation may also need attention. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 09, 2012, 01:52:19 pm
We did bring in Spencer, a C, to you know play C, and then never let him even try.  He could be Garza's replacement.  Or out on the street.  Agree that right now both OT positions look very shaky at best.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 09, 2012, 01:59:38 pm
We did bring in Spencer, a C, to you know play C, and then never let him even try.

Yeah, that's curious.  A couple of reasons / rumors I've heard during Spencer's time with the Bears is that #1, he's not good at making line calls and #2 his shotgun snapping skills are marginal.  Which I guess may explain why a big, strong, young and highly drafted guy couldn't beat out a 31-year-old converted OG with creaky knees.  Of course the main reason for him playing OG last year was the broken hand but with that healed you'd think he would have at least gotten a shot at competing at C this year in training camp.

But one thing I've noticed so far in the Emery regime regarding OL is, he's not gonna move players all over the line just to get them into the starting lineup (which was our M.O. the last couple of years).  Chris Williams was drafted as an OT...  when he couldn't win a starting OT spot, they didn't put him back at G, they let him go.

Lance Louis was drafted as an OG and that's where he's played from Day One this season.  Even with Carimi struggling mightily at times at RT, there has never even been a whiff of a rumor of moving Louis back there where he played last year, even though he did pretty well at RT despite being noticeably undersized.

Spencer may already be on his way out as a 2nd stringer making starters money, but I can almost guarantee his only chance to be a Bear in 2013 is to win the starting C spot outright... nothing else.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 09, 2012, 02:21:32 pm
Article about another Emery win:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4680107/mcmanis-deal-from-texans-paying-off#more

McManis is the guy who blocked the Titans punt for the TD last week.

So nice to finally have a GM who knows what he'd doing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 09, 2012, 04:58:14 pm
By the end of this season it would be really nice to have confidence in at least ONE of either Webb or Carimi as a long-term solution. Because if the season ended today...

Guess what?  The season is not going to end today...

If a quality LT comes available I have no doubt that the Bears would snatch him up and push Webb to the swing tackle spot.  But I seriously doubt both picks #1 and #2 will be tackles. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 11, 2012, 01:41:28 am
He may know what he's doing but he's left a glaring hole unfixed with our line....and that could kill any chance the Bears have of making the playoffs or going further in it...not smart...at all
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 11, 2012, 06:47:36 am
If we can upgrade one tackle in the offseason that is huge. It is much easier to use a TE or back to cover a hole on one side or the other instead of both. JJ Watt is going to make our whole line look silly tonight though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 11, 2012, 07:23:10 am
Maybe Webb will rise to the occassion against Watt.  Ok, who am I kidding, our only hope is if Watt set the hotel thermostat too low, and caught a cold over night.  And then he will only get 4 sacks tonight.  Quick routes, quick release, ok Jay?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 14, 2012, 11:59:06 am
This is kind of odd:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4680226/bears-try-out-four-punters-at-halas

Podlesh isn't having a career season but he's still among the least of my concerns with this team right now.  Unless he's still not fully healed or he re-injured himself Sunday night.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on November 14, 2012, 09:39:03 pm
 Man if I was Emery and I drafted Evan Rodriguez ...

 I wonder what the coaches would do with that son of a biitch ?

 Is he a FB?

 Is he a pass catching FB/TE?

 Is he a RB?

 Just what in a fourth round draft pick ... does he bring to the game ?

 Well I'll just turn it over to the coaches and let them figure it out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 15, 2012, 12:07:01 am
Through nine games, Podlesh is No. 30 in the NFL with an average of 41.7 yards per kick and No. 21 with a net average of 38.4. He had three punts of under 40 yards in the club's 13-6 loss to the Houston Texans, although one of the kicks was downed at the Texans' 3-yard line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 15, 2012, 07:19:19 am
Rough conditions for punting against the Texans, but stone cold move by Emery, letting him know he didnt perform well enough.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 15, 2012, 08:24:11 am
There was some speculation that the issue with Podlesh wasn't as much with his punting as something he was doing (or not) as Gould's holder.  I have no idea if there's any substance to that though.

Re Rodriguez...  I have to think Emery envisioned quite a bit more for him than being a blocking FB when he drafted him.  You don't spend a 4th round pick for a role player you could pick up undrafted.  I think the coaches have been wanting to get him on the field and with Kellen having a lock on the TE position (up to this point anyway), FB was the only way they could do it.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 15, 2012, 09:26:52 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/15/breaston-falls-out-of-favor-in-kansas-city/

Emery should take a long look at this guy during the offseason. If the money was right he could potentially be a big-time upgrade over whatever we're currently trying to accomplish at the #3 WR position with Hester/Bennett.

Breaston (6' 190) is basically a fast Earl Bennett. He's never been a TD machine but he's smart, has good hands and well above average speed, all of which have translated to a career average of over 13 ypc even while playing much of his career with abysmal QBs. 

I know we're into Bennett for a big chunk of money on a long-term deal...  but if he doesn't pick up his game considerably the rest of the season I could even see Emery calling on some of his KC connections and working an even-up trade of Bennett for Breaston.  A change of scenery might do both guys good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 15, 2012, 09:50:29 am

I agree that the Bears need to add another wide receiver in the offseason, assuming Knox is done for.  But Breaston will be 30 and that is kind of old for a WR.  Maybe he's still got it and his problems this year is more related to KC's offensive woes.  It looks to me like Breaston will be cut in the offseason and could be signed for busted up FA money (assuming he can shut up and play special teams).

As for Bennett, I haven't given up on him yet.   But I have no idea why he isn't getting more balls.  Is he not getting open or is Marshall the #1 option on all our pass plays?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 15, 2012, 09:55:36 am
According to Michael Lombardi the Bears need a slot receiver which he feels that Bennett isnt. Knox? Maybe. Hester? Nope, too diminutive. He also said the Bears need to improve the OLine :o Also a TE  :o
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 15, 2012, 10:13:40 am
I have to wonder if Breaston is sandbagging it in hopes of getting an early ticket out of KC.

That team is a disaster and I'd be wanting out of there too if Cassell and Quinn were my QBs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 15, 2012, 10:52:44 am
OTOH that doesnt make Breaston some super player the Bears absolutely cant do without. I am not up to snuff on Breaston's career, but somewhere in the back of my mind I remember he has had past instances where he has tried to engineer his way to a new location AT WHICH he has failed to live up to expectations. INOW he isnt a player I would want my team to go out and acquire. I think the rule "What you see is what you get" is pretty accurate.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 15, 2012, 02:19:20 pm
It's like I've been saying....we really miss Knox underneath. To compete in this league right now, a team needs a quick guy that can get open underneath. Someone smallish with great hands and very reliable that runs great, short routes. We're really missing Knox. You're seeing either deep routes or alot of attempted quick outs. Not having a dependable TE is killing us right now, too. Everytime we throw to one, it would be a great pickup but is dropped. We don't have a TE or a Knox type.....we need both desperately.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 15, 2012, 02:29:29 pm

Knox' strength was not running short routes - he made his living catching balls 10 to 15 or so yards down the field...away from contact.

Bennett is the guy you are talking about - but he's not getting the attention of Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on November 15, 2012, 10:48:08 pm

 Quality TIGHT ENDS.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on November 16, 2012, 08:01:43 am
After the game Sunday, the NFL Channel analysts were showing several replays where Bennett was open downfield and some where Hester was also open deep and Campbell ignored them and checked down for those no gain passes.

Bennett was open quite a lot but Campbell just won't pull the trigger.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 16, 2012, 09:28:44 am

Well that's kind of what I thought as I watched the game but I couldn't confirm because of the view we get on TV.  The only defense I can provide for Campbell, other than him being naturally conservative just going into the game and all, is that the coaches wanted him to throw short and the deep guys were decoys.

One such play comes to mind.  Campbell drops back and you can see him watching Forte the entire time.  A Houston linebacker peels off and runs with Forte.  Forte keeps running and the LB is right on Forte.  Campbell has plenty of time but decides to throw the ball way too early and it gets knocked away.  If he could have waited another second to let Forte run by the LB it would have been open, or he could have gone somewhere else.

The Rams did not outplay the 49ers last weekend with a gameplan of runs and short passes.  We're going to need the intermediate stuff and again another receiver besides Marshall will need to step up.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 17, 2012, 08:40:34 am
I would hope thats Jeffery
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 20, 2012, 08:59:25 am
Anyone who said before the season that this Bears OL would cost us a playoff spot, please step forward and be recognized.

We're watching it happen before our very eyes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on November 20, 2012, 09:15:41 am
I can't even begin to think how far the OL would have to advance to be called abysmal.  What are the chances of it getting better with the same personnel? And again, Campbell needs to stay on the West coast.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 20, 2012, 09:31:18 am
Last night's game just points out how far behind the curve the Bears remain as an organization.

I mean seriously...  could anyone a 2nd-year QB for the Bears EVER coming out in his first start, in primetime, and playing like Kaepernick did last night?  It just wouldn't happen.  Can anyone imagine that we'd EVER have a TE that's even half the quality of Vernon Davis, or that Shea McClellin will EVER rack up 5.5 sacks in a single game  (hell I'd settle for that in a season out of him at this point)?  That kind of ability to evaluate, acquire and develop championship caliber talent doesn't exist at Halas Hall, never has and very likely never will.

The new McCaskey has made some baby steps towards getting the Bears into the 21st century (firing Angelo), but so much more needs done still.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 20, 2012, 10:47:46 am
By this time this season I had hoped this year's edition of the Bears would have reversed two distrubing trends:

1)  Losing to the Packers
2)  Getting blown out in Candlestick Park

Mission failed on both of those counts.

Fact of the matter is, when you look at this year's Bears after 10 games vs. last year's team, it's pretty clear this year's edition of the Bears is only marginally better than last year's squad. The defense is somewhat better...  but the offense is significantly worse (and regressing by the game), and our STs have degenerated to the point where bonehead mistakes/penalties are pretty common and our return game is a complete non-factor.

And what's more alarming is the evidence that they have very likely already peaked for the season. Given our remaining schedule, it's not a real good looking picture from here on out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on November 20, 2012, 11:16:07 am
The defense is better? We must've watched two different teams last night. Sure, the D looks pretty good against the Titans..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 20, 2012, 01:15:12 pm
but the offense is significantly worse (and regressing by the game),

Having Cutler does not make a difference last night...but be reminded that he hasn't played in 3 of the last 4 halves.

We need him back.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 20, 2012, 02:25:23 pm
Having Cutler might have made a difference. I know he has started slow the last few weeks but we don't really know.
SF scored early but Cutler might have drove down the field the next series and scored, we don't know.

The announcers were praising one of the SF LBers on knocking down pass over the middle to Forte but the pass was thrown behind Forte. If Campbell leads Forte it goes for a big gain.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 20, 2012, 02:37:56 pm

I should have said made a difference in winning or losing the game.  No doubt the score would have been closer with Cutler at QB but even with Cutler's superior pocket presence there is no way he could have overcome the 49ers on Monday night.

I clearly recall the pass and in fact had called for that kind of play yesterday.  Put Forte down the field on a LBer.  But you're right Campbell should have led Forte instead he threw behind him and Willis make this GREAT play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on November 21, 2012, 05:41:31 am
Sunday does become a huge game for this team.  Huge.  Beat the Vikings at home and you are in pretty good position.  Lose and the the team psychce starts to go down the drain.  Emotionally, I have too much invested in the Bears to wish them to lose and can a coaching staff.  I so look forward to the Bears and the NFL each year, that the 6 months of non playing just naws at me.  I watched every minute of Monday's debacle because I always hold out hope that a play or two would turn it around. 

That game was a magnifying glass on this team, that I hope was the worst of the worst that they can play.


The offensive line is a mess.  The offensive flow is completely missing and that may be attributable to Tice and the oline - chicken and egg.

Gruden said that the defense looked like the 49ers were dropping a house on the Bears each play.  The Bears were not stuffing the line of scrimmage and then a fullback or tight end would just clean out a tackle.  It just never changed, I was waiting for that tide to turn and it never did.  4 drives, 20 points to start the game and then the wheels really came off.

One and only bright spot is that Cutler wasn't exposed to a bludgeoning.  After seeing this team perform, that was the only bright spot.

Up next, Minnesota Vikings...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 21, 2012, 07:15:13 am
Been hearing reports Cutler may not play Sunday. Without him, we lose, even to the Queens at home. Campbell cannot get the job done, if that ain't already obvious then you need to see a optometrist and get those eyes fixed. With the bounty of ignorance surrounding the acquisitions on this team,we're a mess.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 21, 2012, 07:15:33 am
Sunday does become a huge game for this team.

So was the Texan game as well as the Frisco game. The Bears needed to show they were for real, but they laid eggs. Now their playoff lives are at stake. If they lose to the Viqueens I heard they become tied for 2nd in the division and the Queens have the tie breaker. So you realize that there likely wont be 2 wild cards out of the same division, meaning that its unlikely we even make the playoffs. So in the matter of 3 weeks we go from leading our division and a playoff bye to not even being a playoff team. Thats a bigtime fail.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 21, 2012, 07:19:11 am
I've been hearing that Cutler will play Sunday. If indeed Cutler doesnt we are sure to see McCown come the 2nd half if not sooner. Campbell cant get the job done.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 21, 2012, 07:26:36 am
If Campbell plays again on Sunday, IMO his performance will determine whether he's with the team again next year.  Granted he got absolutely zero help from anyone on the offense Monday night but even the throws he had time to make were terrible. I'm pretty sure that one he sailed over Jeffery's head was the play Alshon hurt his knee on (Marcus Robinson, anyone?), so you can make the case that Campell was directly responsible for that injury.  On top of which his intangibles are awful...  his teammates clearly don't trust him... and his game instincts are practically nil, which is all the more ironic considering how many NFL starts he has under his belt.  He's played 6 quarters for the Bears now and hasn't given any indication he has his game together, physically or especially mentally.

If he gets another shot on Sunday he simply has to play a lot better and show at least some evidence he knows how to run what is really a very simple (probably too simple) offense.  Right now he's no better than the backups we had last year, and with the benefit of a much easier scheme besides.  Another bad outing and it will raise serious questions not only about him, but the guy who brought him here.  I'm sure Emery has been astounded at how bad Campbell has played cause what we've been seeing is certainly not the guy he thought he had signed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on November 21, 2012, 11:31:43 am
I'd rather see McCown play, Campbell is terrible..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 21, 2012, 11:37:16 am
Here's what NEEDS to happen on our OL this offseason:

- Cut Webb, Carimi, Spencer and Rachal
- Demote Garza to 2nd string (or cut him altogether)
- Draft best available OL with top 3 picks (1st, 2nd and 4th rounds)
- Sign the best available OT in FA

Here's what probably WILL happen:

- 2nd tier OT signed in FA to play LT
- Webb moved to RT
- Carimi kept as the swing backup (even though he can't play either side adequately)
- Spencer promoted to starter at C
- Garza moved to LG; Rachal kept as depth
- ONE O-Lineman drafted in the 4th round (and put on the practice squad)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 21, 2012, 11:54:33 am
Isnt the RT usually the bigger, slower OT?  Still dont know why Webb isnt playing RT.  Maybe because we dont have a good LT, but lets face it, right now we dont have a good RT either. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 21, 2012, 12:11:49 pm
IIRC Webb first broke into the starting lineup as a RT and while he had his challenges there, he was considerably better there than he has been as a LT and miles better than Carimi has been.

I think Tice is so caught up in the fact that Webb LOOKS like a LT that he's not realizing he's not nearly athletic or smart enough to play the position at an even adequate level.

On top of holding accountable the players themselves, it's also time to really start taking Tice to task.  He's the guy that's been defending this crew of stiffs and it's pretty clear he's lost any sense of objectivity as far as our OL's actual level of skill.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 21, 2012, 02:38:24 pm
The thing I really noticed about our OL on Monday night in particular is that their fundamentals are just TERRIBLE.  I never played on an OL but from the amount of football I've seen even I can tell every one of those guys was doing multiple things "wrong" on damn near every play.  That comes down to coaching and honestly, I wonder why the hell we're even paying that no-name hack of an OL coach cause from what I can see he's not doing a damn thing to get those guys straightened out when their technique is so obviously deficient.  Tice is obviously not spending the time with them that he did last year -- nor should he be expected to as the OC -- and the so-called OL coach clearly doesn't have clue so as a result those guys are routinely losing one-on-one matchups despite being one of the biggest OLs (man for man) in the whole league. Their footwork is terrible, they play with no leverage or balance, they have no clue how to use their hands, they don't work together as a unit, etc. etc.  Basically all those things that Tice said he was gonna fix when he was hired as OL coach -- and succeeded in fixing to at least some degree -- are broken again, and even worse than before.

The other thing is that that unit is severely lacking leadership. Supposedly that's Garza but when he's barely treading water himself I suppose leadership isn't big on his to-do list, nor does he probably have a lot of respect among the younger players.

So you've got players of marginal (at best) talent, who are getting no coaching and have no leadership on the field.  Small wonder the results we're seeing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 21, 2012, 02:53:41 pm
Isn't it crazy to think that darned near EVERY player on that line needs either cut or demoted?? And we're playing GAMES with them!! How on earth are we supposed to go anywhere with this group? And what really scares me is that the "brain trust" that runs this show THINKS THEY'RE OK!! If that don't get the goat....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 21, 2012, 02:56:52 pm
Yeah... that unit we had last year with Chris Williams at LG, Spencer at RG and Lance Louis at RT is looking pretty good by comparison to this bunch.

I'm actually kind of hoping Cutler has to stay out of Sunday's game too.  The less abuse he takes behind those clowns the rest of this season, the better.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on November 22, 2012, 07:05:46 am
Yapper - We agree on something, 3993.  There is no leader and no one other than Cutler to hold them accountable.  Cutler is clearly the general if there was ever any doubt, and it makes his ass chewing of Webb all the more noteworthy.  Webb looks prototypical and plays abysmal  One play killed me in particular early in the game.  It was either 2nd or 3rd and short in the first quarter and the Bears run Forte into the middle.  He is stuffed  but still struggling to inch to the first down marker.  Webb is behind the play and just watches Forte struggle, rather than taking his enormous bulk and strength and moving the pile forward 2 feet.  We punt.

Webb is like the big kid on the play ground that gets beat up by smaller scrappier kids because he doesn't know he is as big as he is.  The coaches see his athleticism but it is like he doesn't believe it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on November 22, 2012, 07:07:57 am
While it is hard for me to give Campbell a passing grade for his performance, I would give him an incomplete.  If you were the QB, starting your first game with our offensive line performance against the 49ers, which of you could dust yourself off and play like the previous 5 drops didn't affect you?

K-nick had a clean pocket almost the entire game, it was pitch and catch.  Campbell didn't have that pocket. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on November 22, 2012, 09:56:59 am
Campbell did himself no favors..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 22, 2012, 02:02:48 pm
I agree Campbell didnt look great, but he had zero protection.  I dont have high hopes for him, but lets at least give him a chance where he isnt afraid to get pummeled like Cutler usually does.  Just saying.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on November 22, 2012, 09:05:27 pm
Just read Rachel out Spencer in at LG; also Scott in at RT and Carimi out.  2 moves on the Oline...I am all for it...now let start Cambell and see how the Oline holds up.  Let Cutler rest one more week while we get it together on Oline.  We are 7-3 with a solid D (minus one game); we can afford one more game to fix some of this while our most important player gets his head straight.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 23, 2012, 06:36:57 am
Agreed.  But it was Webb that Jarred Allen was having his way with not Carimi.  But this has to be better, right?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 23, 2012, 07:07:32 am
He gone:

The mystery of Chilo Rachal continues to unfold.

He walked out on the Bears after a bad performance on Monday night against the 49ers.  He was placed on the reserve/left squad list.  He then returned to the team.

Now, the Bears have placed him on the reserve/non-football injury list.

Rachal was reportedly distraught over his demotion from the first team, and his emotional state is “very bad.”  Still, that’s not an injury, and the Bears specifically used the term “non-football injury” not “non-football illness.”

Either way, Rachal is done for the year.  He’s also likely done as a Bear.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 23, 2012, 07:20:57 am
If Campbell plays again on Sunday, IMO his performance will determine whether he's with the team again next year.

IMHO If he plays again Sunday it determines whether he even sees the field again this season....and that would be dire emergency time. The dude is brutal. At the money he is being paid he is stealing money. He is being paid starters money, but for who, the little siters of the poor? McCown was way better than that. It seems to me that Campbell made the team out of TC this summer not based on his ability but based on his contract. I couldnt see why McCown wasnt the backup out of TC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 23, 2012, 09:57:16 am
Meh on Rachel. The whole unit needs blown up anyway so why not get a headstart.

Look at that Pats OL yesterday... They were getting work done and that was being down 2 starters.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 23, 2012, 10:06:37 am
I have no feelings for Rachal. Sorry! The guy should never have been signed in the first place.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on November 23, 2012, 05:10:16 pm
http://sports.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981764960

I'm all in favor of firing Lovie in favor of Cowher, with one exception, Cowher's been out of coaching for 6 years. Just don't know about that.. They could sh!t can Tice tomorrow and I'd be happy. I don't believe for one second Emery came in and said the O line looks fine, let's go another direction. That has to be coming from Lovie and Tice. I think Lovie's OK, but I'm tired of "OK"..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on November 23, 2012, 08:45:21 pm
A big no on Cowher. I see another Joe Gibbs situation. Been gone too long.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: otto105 on November 23, 2012, 08:57:43 pm
Why not Jones for Jimmy Johnson too?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 23, 2012, 10:19:49 pm
Definate yes on Cowher. He is to a T exactly what this club needs. A fiery motivator that knows how to win games and has had mean defenses. He's not a fool and knows the game....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 24, 2012, 07:26:42 am
How about Gruden? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 24, 2012, 09:01:16 am
This team needs an offensive mind on the coaching staff. Watching the Skins and Pats on turkey day and those offenses are light years ahead of ours.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on November 24, 2012, 11:11:45 am
How about Gruden? 

Not sure I'd want Gruden but on the bright side it might make MNF watchable again if he was gone from there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on November 24, 2012, 11:25:49 am
I don't mind having a defensive minded coach, as long as our D can actually stand up to the better O's in the league. Right now, I have my doubts. I'm glad we're playing the Vikings this weekend rather than the Pack, I'm just not quite ready to witness another thrashing, especially from Arron Rodgers..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on November 24, 2012, 12:11:59 pm
The Bears won't hire a big name ex-coach so we can forget about that pipe dream.  They always go for a coordinator.

I can see them going after the Packers OC (can't think of his name right now) as a new hire.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on November 24, 2012, 12:35:18 pm

 Find me THREE OFFENSIVE LINEMEN that can start DAY ONE in 2013 from the 2013 draft.

 What is the cost ?

 Dont forget what we gave up to get Cutler.

 Cutler is and will be USELESS to us without protection.

 This team aint going anywhere without an O.L.

 It never has .. it never will.

 When do you trade for what is so obviously needed in the draft ?

 Emery traded UP to get Jeffery ... thats a good sign.

 Do that again for OL if somthing is there that can help the team.  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 24, 2012, 04:34:19 pm
Really, the guy that's the D coord of the Packers should be a candidate for a HC spot. The OC as well, but for some bizarre, wrong reason, they seem to keep their coordinators long enough to make a few SB runs. Us? ONE year and Rivera is gone....one.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on November 24, 2012, 05:28:28 pm
It's likely that Cowher would want GM + HC.    Would McCaskey agree to that?

Dom Capers had one shot at HC and did pretty poorly.

GB's OC from previous years is now the Miami HC.

Don't think the new  GB OC probably hasn't built enough rep to justify a HC job, yet.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on November 24, 2012, 06:09:58 pm
It's likely that Cowher would want GM + HC.    Would McCaskey agree to that?

Dom Capers had one shot at HC and did pretty poorly.

GB's OC from previous years is now the Miami HC.

Don't think the new  GB OC probably hasn't built enough rep to justify a HC job, yet.



Capers was the first HC ever for Carolina AND the Houston Texans ... he's probably used up his HC chances in the NFL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on November 25, 2012, 05:49:23 pm
Too true.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on November 27, 2012, 05:21:20 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/news/article-1/Bears-add-veteran-Gurode-to-offensive-line/d4f20455-135a-4dca-ad32-6ce38a682e5a
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 27, 2012, 05:29:42 pm
I was wondering how they decided on Gurode who is 33 and was out of football this year - did they have a mass tryout?

Gurode was part of a crowded tryout at Halas Hall. An NFL source said Lonnie Edwards, Robert Griffin and Derek Dennis, all interior offensive linemen, were given tryouts. The Bears also put linebacker Aaron Curry, a former first-round draft pick, through a tryout along with wide receiver Dale Moss.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 27, 2012, 07:20:19 pm
So we waived Okoye for Gurode.  I hope that works out ok. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 27, 2012, 08:07:11 pm
Gurode was decent in his day but I cant imagine him being worth a damn right now.

And at his age this can't be anything more than a rental for the rest of the season.

Emery must be panicking cause signing 33 yr old guys is not his M.O., and the Orlando Pace debacle comes to mind. Think I'd rather see what James Brown has at G first.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 27, 2012, 09:04:07 pm
Titus Young is apparently on the outs in Detroit.

If Marshall could get him turned around he could be the Eddie Royal speed WR that Hester hasn't turned into and Knox will never be again... Just a thought.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on November 27, 2012, 09:22:41 pm
Emery is probably thinking get a vet who can get up to speed quick. 

Also this guy played last year for the Ravens.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 27, 2012, 09:31:19 pm
Bears also worked out former Top 5 draft pick Aaron Curry, who failed with the Seahawks and Raiders and has never come close to justifying his draft status. Hope that doesnt mean Briggs prognosis is bad.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on November 28, 2012, 05:53:33 am
I thought they were interested in Curry a few years ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 28, 2012, 07:46:09 am
There is a Pompei article over at the Trib I cant access. Its about whether the Bears can get their own Kalil for LT. I hope somebody can post it
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on November 28, 2012, 08:33:22 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-1128-bears-pompei-chicago--20121128,0,7458303.column. Meh. Still swilling the chum .
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 28, 2012, 09:19:38 am

Here's a pretty good article on our O-line status:

Dan Pompei
 

7:35 p.m. CST, November 27, 2012
Inspiration is the preferred method to induce beneficial change.

Desperation works too.

Gabe Carimi needs to be lined up at guard when the Bears resume practice Wednesday in preparation for the Seahawks.

Jonathan Scott needs to be settling it at right tackle.

Edwin Williams needs to be at the other guard position.

The game plan needs to assume J'Marcus Webb is going to struggle.

And Jay Cutler needs to be on the move.

It's easy to see all of that now. But it took the offensive collapse against the 49ers in San Francisco for all of it to come into focus. The Bears offense should be better down the stretch as a result of that epic failure.

Carimi certainly could be served better for Aldon Smith and his gang of bullies exposing and destroying him.

Carimi first needed to be benched. He needed to step back, take a break and remove the world's burdens off his shoulder pads. Then he needed to refocus and remember what confidence is.

It just wasn't working at right tackle. He struggled too much with the one-on-one pass protection matchups.

Maybe at some point Carimi can be resurrected at tackle, but for now at least his career and his team really could benefit from a forced position switch.

We can't be completely sure Carimi can play guard. But the early results are encouraging. Against the Vikings, with no preparation at the position, Carimi was effective in downhill run blocking. He pulled with some efficiency, as he has done from tackle.

Carimi is tough enough and strong enough to play guard. He has the speed to trap and get to the second level.

The concerns about him there are about his body style and quickness. Carimi is 6 feet 7 with 35-inch arms. Using him at guard, with all his extra length, is like using high top shoelaces for low top shoes.

The Bengals drafted Carimi's former Wisconsin teammate Kevin Zeitler in the first round last year expressly to play guard. The difference between he and Carimi is three inches of height and 21/4 inches of arm length.

Longer arms are a benefit at tackle, where they help blockers force speed rushers to take a wider angle to get to the quarterback. But long arms can be a detriment for interior blockers who need to punch and keep defenders' hands away quickly.

Carimi well may have a hard time against compact, quick-footed three-technique tackles. Fortunately for him, Henry Melton is on the schedule Wednesday through Friday, not Sunday.

At Carimi's old position, Scott clearly was an improvement. He isn't going to make anyone's all pro team, and there is a reason he is on his fourth team in the last five years. Scott allowed a couple of pressures Sunday.

But he probably isn't going to have the kind of meltdown that makes team trainers signal for the spine board. He is a veteran and a pro, and there is something to be said for that.

The Bears should expect Scott to be more consistent than Webb, who has been pretty good in most games, but who also has fallen to pieces inexplicably in others.

The good news is Webb has a real body of work now. Everyone knows what he is, and he cannot be expected to be something he has not been. That means offensive coordinator Mike Tice has to have answers in every game plan that will prevent Webb from being the fly in the Bears' Pinot Grigio.

We're still trying to figure out what Edwin Williams is, but it's possible he has been underrated. Given how physical he plays, maybe he should have been starting at left guard all along.

Whether it's Williams, Carimi or Chris Spencer at right guard Sunday, it's likely none of them will be as proficient as Lance Louis had been. He was the Bears' most dynamic and most consistent blocker this season, and replacing him has to be a group effort.

Included in that group are Tice and Jay Cutler, who have to continue to keep Cutler moving so pass rushers don't know where he will be. The Bears' loss to the 49ers proved a stationary quarterback is going to be a sacked quarterback.

Bottoming out that day is what started the recovery process for the Bears. It's all so clear from a sober perspective, now isn't it?

dpompei@tribune.com

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 28, 2012, 09:25:29 am
Gurode was decent in his day but I cant imagine him being worth a damn right now.

And at his age this can't be anything more than a rental for the rest of the season.

Emery must be panicking cause signing 33 yr old guys is not his M.O., and the Orlando Pace debacle comes to mind. Think I'd rather see what James Brown has at G first.


They apparently liked what they saw when they tried him out so he must be in some kind of shape.  Right now he's just an insurance policy for Spencer, E Williams and Carimi at guard.  Apparently, they don't think James Brown is ready - they see him every day in practice.

I still haven't given up on Carimi at RT - but right now they are in a playoff push and if Scott can do the job - he plays.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 28, 2012, 10:14:10 am
Dallas, did you just say that? They 'apparently liked what they saw'?!? Dude, this is the same team that thought they liked what they saw OF THE ENTIRE OFFENSIVE LINE and didn't care enough to fix it, FOR THREE YEARS STRAIGHT! Seriously......
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 28, 2012, 10:18:07 am
And they're all in the same house that built a line that sucks!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 28, 2012, 10:20:57 am
I have given up on Carimi at RT.  He just isnt big enough.  The RT usually is a huge anchor kind of guy.  Carimi getting tossed backwards like a rag doll still haunts me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on November 28, 2012, 10:48:14 am
Dallas, did you just say that? They 'apparently liked what they saw'?!? Dude, this is the same team that thought they liked what they saw OF THE ENTIRE OFFENSIVE LINE and didn't care enough to fix it, FOR THREE YEARS STRAIGHT! Seriously......

How many years has Emery been here? Geez....give him a chance.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on November 28, 2012, 11:35:23 am
I agree, give Emery a chance. He had so many holes to fill. He might miss on some guys but I think he'll draft at least one OL who should start this year. Hopefully he gets another either via the draft or FA.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 28, 2012, 12:03:00 pm
So apparently Angelo was sh*t at drafting OTs but did Ok finding us some really tall OGs.

Anyway...  Lots of talk that Emery may try hard to sign either Albert from KC or Clady from Denver in the offseason. If we could do that, draft OL in the 1st and 4th and get an impact TE in the 2nd, we MIGHT be on the way to a decent air attack.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on November 28, 2012, 12:20:17 pm
Well, at least one guy in the press gets it.  Tom "I'm an ass" Jackson needs to visit Chicago, he really does.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/week-13-cheat-sheet-jay-cutler-deserves-to-be-in-mvp-conversation-112612
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 28, 2012, 12:35:49 pm

An NFL scout’s take on Bears’ erratic offensive line

BY NEIL HAYES Twitter: @bynhayes November 28, 2012 12:23PM

The phone call was made in search of an explanation that was not forthcoming, at least about a subject that has had Bears fans scratching their heads and pulling out their hair simultaneously.

How can an offensive line bullied by the 49ers dominate an above-average Vikings front seven six days later?

“It happens all the time,” said a veteran NFL scout who specializes in offensive line play. “Green Bay got shattered by New York [on Monday night]. They weren’t close to what they were capable of doing. Watch them this week.

“It’s human nature. I can’t explain it. Nobody can. If you could you would be a billionaire. If you could define human emotion when it comes to a football team or human performance we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. It happens. It just does.

“You wonder sometimes. You want to count on this and you want to count on that but you can’t count on anything. There’s an emotional factor and sometimes it rules the game.”

This scout shares his opinion about the Bears offensive line on one condition: “Keep my name out of it,” he says.

I prefer not to use anonymous sources but in this case it’s the only way to learn from someone who has studied every snap played by Bears offensive linemen this season. He will tell you what Mike Tice and Lovie Smith won’t without regard for bruised egos, locker room politics or organizational media policies.

Don’t expect a rip job, though, especially when it comes to second-year tackle Gabe Carimi, who was benched after being a big reason why the 49ers Aldon Smith had 5.5 sacks against the Bears on Monday night.

“He’s going to be all right,” the scout said of Carimi, who was the Bears first-round draft choice in 2011 before missing his rookie season with a dislocated kneecap. “He’ll re-establish himself. He wasn’t just a guy who got dominated. He had some breakdowns. He also had some very good plays.

“He got blamed a lot for the game in San Francisco but the guy playing on the other side [J’Marcus Webb] was equally guilty at times. I wouldn’t give up on Carimi. He’s a guy who will play there a long time.”

This scout has never been as down on left tackle J’Marcus Webb as the majority of Bears fans have been, and often with good reason. He sees a tackle that absorbs blows instead of inflicting them but insists that can be an effective approach with the proper footwork and technique.

He was especially impressed with how Webb responded to perhaps his worst effort of the season in San Francisco with one of his best against the Vikings.

“He took Jared Allen and pretty much won that battle across the board,” he said. “I don’t think he’s a quick-twitch athlete but he knows who he is and what he needs to do.”

When he says Jonathan Scott, who replaced Carimi at right tackle against the Vikings, is a lot like Webb, he doesn’t mean it as an insult. He knows all about the veteran Scott and was impressed by how he played against Vikings end Brian Robison, who was held to two tackles.

He agrees with Tice that Lance Louis was by far the Bears best offensive lineman this season but that doesn’t mean he believes the unit will derail the Bears after Louis was lost for the season with a torn ACL, forcing Carimi to move inside to guard.

“There are better lines but they’re good enough to keep on winning,” he said. “I don’t think people in Chicago should panic about what they have there. Keep in mind, an awful lot of it — more than an awful lot — has to do with the ability of the quarterback to move around and create second chances for himself. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a better job of that than what [Cutler] did Sunday. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen anybody put the ball in a two-foot window like he did eight times [against the Vikings]. Unbelievable.

“The week before, [backup quarterback Jason Campbell] didn’t do a very good job.”

The Bears aren’t alone. For whatever reason, inconsistent line play has become a league-wide epidemic. Not even the 49ers are immune. They played poorly up front when the Vikings pounded them 24-13 earlier this season.

“Sometimes there’s an urgency on a football team that’s difficult to define,” the scout said. “The 49ers had it against the Bears. The Bears had it against the Vikings. When the Vikings beat the 49ers, it was the other way around. Explain that one to me. Why that happens I can’t tell you.

“That’s why you have to be careful about throwing babies out with the bath water. You might be making a mistake. It might be Carimi benefits from this. I still think he’s going to be a good player.”
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 28, 2012, 02:07:41 pm
I'm gonna go ahead and guess that scout works for the Packers... Or some other team with a vested interest in the Bears NOT improving their personnel.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on November 28, 2012, 02:24:29 pm
Well, at least one guy in the press gets it.  Tom "I'm an ass" Jackson needs to visit Chicago, he really does.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/week-13-cheat-sheet-jay-cutler-deserves-to-be-in-mvp-conversation-112612

I hadn't heard or seen this...now that's funny

"Jim Schwartz’s errant challenge flag and Mark Sanchez’s “running into my lineman’s butt” fumble got more airplay, but I also got a kick out of Tony Romo hurrying to the line and running a quarterback sneak for 1 yard on … first and 10. Romo and Jason Garrett (presumably in his ear) must have thought it was third-and-inches. It wasn’t. "
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 28, 2012, 02:56:44 pm
You nailed it, Yapp. We need better players, plain and simple. I don't trust for one minute some unknown "scout".
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 28, 2012, 03:08:24 pm
Hmmm I wonder if that unnamed scout was Jerry Angelo???  LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on November 28, 2012, 03:14:36 pm
Where is the Jer these days?  Working for GB I hope.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 28, 2012, 03:17:06 pm
Where is the Jer these days?  Working for GB I hope.

How freakin great would that be???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 29, 2012, 09:33:52 am

Carimi to start at guard...


By Brad Biggs, Chicago Tribune reporter
 
9:41 p.m. CST, November 28, 2012
The Bears are going to pick up where they left off with their offensive line and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Barring a sudden return to health from guard Chris Spencer, who missed Wednesday's practice with a bruised left knee, former first-round draft pick Gabe Carimi will start at right guard Sunday against the Seahawks at Soldier Field.

Offensive coordinator Mike Tice said James Brown, an undrafted free agent from Troy also will get a look, but with the Bears in the postseason hunt it would be surprising if they turned to a rookie. Edwin Williams, who has 12 career starts, will play left guard. He finished there in Sunday's 28-10 victory over the Vikings. Newcomer Andre Gurode is just getting up to speed with the playbook.

"We'll try to make sure we have the best five guys, and at the same time we have to have seven guys ready because if one of the guys can't handle (things), then we have to move another guy in," Tice said. "We can't wait until Monday and say we should have made a change. If we have to make one, we'll make one."

Benched as the right tackle after the Nov. 19 loss to the 49ers, Carimi suddenly finds himself back in the mix as a key player in any Bears success. The offense has been bogged down and made so basic because of pass protection issues that it has to improve over the course of the next five games for the team to have a chance in the playoffs.

"I am just looking to step in wherever I can," said Carimi, who is trying to get used to the quicker action inside.

With two padded practices remaining for the entire season, coach Lovie Smith elected to use one Wednesday and Carimi was one of the last players to leave the field as he worked on one-on-ones with defensive tackles Stephen Paea and Nate Collins. In the collective bargaining agreement adopted last year, teams are permitted one practice in full pads for each of the first 11 weeks and then three padded practices the rest of the season. Players said the Bears used one last week meaning there is one left now, a rare chance for linemen to go full speed and be evaluated.

"If Gabe has to play it's not like Gabe hasn't been playing all year so he has a good feel, and Edwin has played before for us so we'll see how it goes," said quarterback Jay Cutler, who was sacked only once in a basic game plan against the Vikings. "To get sent down like that it was tough on (Carimi). I talked to him, Coach Tice talked to him. … We felt like he just needed a little break.

"You never know when guys are going to go down and now he's back at guard. It wasn't too long before he got back in there."

Cutler says he isn't worried about having trouble seeing over Carimi, who at 6 feet 7 is taller than typical interior linemen.

"I don't care if he's 6-10," he said. "If he does his job, I'll find a way."

bmbiggs@tribune.com

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on November 29, 2012, 09:47:06 am
I gotta tell ya, I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy over the above. Has Gabe gained 20 #'s in a week? Throw the rook in from Troy, what the hell.  That's what the Bears said at the start of the year right? "what the hell, the line is fine".  Now, we fans here all about "pass protection issues", and the line has to improve over the next five games.  Kinda late in the game (seasons 2/3 gone) to wake up ain't it fellas?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 09:50:48 am
If the DT across from Carimi is a small, quick Henry Melton type, Cutler and our inside run game are toast.

If he's a 330-lb space-eater maybe we'll be OK.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 29, 2012, 10:11:24 am

I think the quality of the DTs Carimi has to face rather is more important than how big or fast they are.  Most likely Carimi will be facing Alan Branch who is about his same height/weight but not much of a playmker.  The other DT, who Carimi may also face, is a pretty good DT Brandon Mebane but he's more compact...6-1 311.

I'm more concerned with blocking their DEs:  Clemons and Irvin than the inside guys.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 10:31:09 am
Way to go, OL.  Good work.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/29/aldon-smith-the-nfc-defensive-player-of-the-month/

Not that this is a big surprise.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 10:32:39 am
Mebane could give Carimi problems.  Quick, strong and a huge advantage in leverage.  Wouldn't surprise me if the Seahawks flip their DTs at least some of the time to take advantage of the mismatch.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 29, 2012, 10:38:55 am
Quote
With two padded practices remaining for the entire season, coach Lovie Smith elected to use one Wednesday and Carimi was one of the last players to leave the field as he worked on one-on-ones with defensive tackles Stephen Paea and Nate Collins. In the collective bargaining agreement adopted last year, teams are permitted one practice in full pads for each of the first 11 weeks and then three padded practices the rest of the season. Players said the Bears used one last week meaning there is one left now, a rare chance for linemen to go full speed and be evaluated.

Don't like this one bit. If our line screws up badly, I'd be on them like white on rice and they'd be working OT's till they got it right. But this?? This is fricking ridiculous....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 11:08:27 am
The one positive in that, is that Paea and Collins are two pretty decent DTs.  Assuming Lovie was letting those guys go at Carimi full-bore, that at least in theory reduces the possibility he will be completely overwhelmed by the Seattle DTs on Sunday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 29, 2012, 11:36:04 am

And Carimi played about a half against 2 pretty good Viking DTs without any preparation.

Also saw the Bears made an odd roster move - so Gurode takes Rachal's spot and now the LB Trahan apparently is taking Louis' spot.  Not sure if this is permanent - they may just be borrowing Trahan for the game if Briggs is not good to go Sunday. 

If I'm not mistaken the Bears have one healthy backup O-lineman on the 53 man roster - James Brown.  The other guys is the injured Chris Spencer.

The Bears elevated linebacker Patrick Trahan from the practice squad to the active roster Wednesday morning, reaching the NFL maximum.

The Bears then filled Trahan's spot on the practice squad by signing defensive end Aston Whiteside.

Trahan appeared in five games last season, and finished with five five special teams tackles. Trahan has been on the Bears' practice squad the last 11 weeks.

Whiteside is also a familiar face; he was on the practice squad the first five weeks of this season after spending most of the preseason with the Bears.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on November 29, 2012, 11:59:26 am
Don't like this one bit. If our line screws up badly, I'd be on them like white on rice and they'd be working OT's till they got it right. But this?? This is fricking ridiculous....

Thank a union
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 12:53:31 pm
Also saw the Bears made an odd roster move - so Gurode takes Rachal's spot and now the LB Trahan apparently is taking Louis' spot.  Not sure if this is permanent - they may just be borrowing Trahan for the game if Briggs is not good to go Sunday. 

I was thinking the same thing when I saw that move...  i.e., does that mean something's up with Briggs? 

I sure hope we have Briggs...  Russell Wilson can really move and to not have Briggs there to help "spy" on him could make it a lot tougher on our D.  We'll also need our LBs on their A game to keep Marshawn Lynch in check. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 29, 2012, 12:58:46 pm

Briggs just said he's playing Sunday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 01:13:08 pm
Good news.  And Peanut's injury is relatively minor so our D should be at full strength Sunday.  (Or at least, as close to full strength as any team is this time of year.)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 29, 2012, 01:21:09 pm
....except for our putrid OLine
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on November 29, 2012, 02:18:22 pm
Speaking of which....this Gurode guy might not be bad at all at all, if you believe the writer. mmmm......
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/11/28/hoge-bears-reshuffled-offensive-line-has-some-promise/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 02:27:08 pm
I almost didn't read the article. I saw "Hoge" and thought it was Merril Hoge (who's an addle-brained dipsh*t), but it's a different Hoge.

It's a decent piece though.  For the sake of our remaining season I hope it works out for Carimi at RG although that could create an interesting dilemma next year when Lance Louis (hopefully) returns at 100%, possibly with a contract extension, and wants his starting gig back.

Playing Gurode at C (where he went to multiple Pro Bowls) and moving Garza back to his natural RG spot is also a possibility, although it's always risky to switch centers this late in the season from a ball security perspective.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on November 29, 2012, 02:53:53 pm
Maybe Carimi and Louis should just switch.  My recollection is that LL was pretty good at RT last year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 03:15:05 pm
Maybe Carimi and Louis should just switch.  My recollection is that LL was pretty good at RT last year.

That thought had crossed my mind as well.  6'7 RG and 6'3 RT would be unconventional as hell but I wouldn't care if it got the job done.

I think though what it still comes down to is that we need at least 2 starters on that OL who are better than anyone on our current roster. That likely means a combination of a high-dollar FA signing and a 1st (or at worst 2nd) round draft pick.  Absent those pieces we can shuffle the other guys around all we want and the BEST case scenario will only be an OL that sucks a little less than we've gotten used to (i.e., what we saw last Sunday)...  not an elite unit that positively impacts games on a consistent basis (i.e., Patriots, Niners, Texans, Giants).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 29, 2012, 03:23:52 pm
Playing Gurode at C (where he went to multiple Pro Bowls) and moving Garza back to his natural RG spot is also a possibility, although it's always risky to switch centers this late in the season from a ball security perspective.

I would be surprised if that would happens - Gurode can play guard.

Maybe Carimi and Louis should just switch.  My recollection is that LL was pretty good at RT last year.

Louis in my opinion, is near pro bowl level at guard...he's an adequate RT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 04:02:19 pm
That injury couldn't have come at a worse time for Louis. 

Haven't seen enough to know how Emery operates when it comes to extending guys coming off major injuries but Louis was on the path to a nice extension at good coin.  Now though, who knows?

Regarding OL, I will consider it a failed offseason if Emery doesn't bring a guy in here who can knock Webb out of the lineup at LT or at least push him a lot harder than he's been pushed his entire time here so far.  For 2 years Webb has gotten away with being sloppy and lazy cause he knows there's no one looking over his shoulder.  He needs a big hot fire lit under his azz and hopefully Emery's the guy to do it.  Webb is really starting to look like a less talented Bryant McKinnie...  a huge, long armed guy that gets chance after chance because he looks the part... but who really doesn't have the burning desire to be great (or even pretty good), and eats up a starting spot that would more deservedly go to someone else. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 29, 2012, 04:51:18 pm

Emery will give Louis a one year deal - if he can make it through 2013 where he left off this year he will get a nice bonus/deal.

I have no doubt that the Bears will draft or overdraft a LT next April.  This will let Webb and Carimi battle it out for RT and the loser is either the swing guy or plays guard.

I think the Seattle game will be huge one for Webb who held up well (with help) against Jarred Allen.  Bears just have to continue to manage Webb.  Give him help early and then let him settle down as the game progresses.  Not saying they can't 7 step drop but you'd like a lot of 3 and 5s and a lot of running plays.  Bears also have to worry about Irvin on the other side (I assume that's where he plays on passing downs) as well as Carimi and Edwin Williams isn't exactly a solid vet either.

If the Bears offense/defense/STs can squeeze out about 19 or 20 points they should win this game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on November 29, 2012, 06:50:09 pm
Plus isnt Gurode like 33?  I wouldnt make too many long term plans around him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on November 29, 2012, 07:35:50 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/29/bears-rule-out-spencer-hester/

I also heard Forte, Briggs and Tillman are all expected to play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 29, 2012, 08:37:24 pm
True dat Peke. Heard that tonight on WLS
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 29, 2012, 09:28:52 pm

Bears need to stop ignoring Bennett...and while you're at it get the ball to Forte too:

Bennett's time could come vs. Seahawks
With Jeffery, Hester out, Marshall facing tough corners, sure-handed veteran needs to step up

By Vaughn McClure, Chicago Tribune reporter

9:00 p.m. CST, November 29, 2012
The numbers might indicate otherwise, but Jay Cutler hasn't forgotten about Earl Bennett.

Cutler understands his former college teammate's value, even if the Bears quarterback seems solely focused on Brandon Marshall. And Cutler knows he might have to rely on Bennett more heavily Sunday against the league's third-best pass defense.

"He has to play well,'' Cutler said of Bennett. "He's got to step up and make some plays for us.''

Cutler has good reason to have higher expectations of Bennett this week. The Seahawks have a pair of tall cornerbacks capable of contending with Marshall in 6-foot-4 Brandon Browner on the left side and 6-3 Richard Sherman on the right. Although the 6-4 Marshall welcomed the challenge, having constant success against the tandem might be a tough task.

With rookie Alshon Jeffery recovering from arthroscopic knee surgery and Devin Hester ruled out with a mild concussion, the sure-handed, 6-foot Bennett has to be Cutler's second option — or even his primary target — on occasion.

"The thing for me is just to do my job,'' Bennett said. "When the opportunities come, I have to take advantage of them.''

Bennett ranks third on the team with 22 catches, 59 behind Marshall. Marshall has been targeted 124 times, compared with 40 targets for Bennett. Only once has Bennett been targeted more than Marshall: During a Week 2 loss at Green Bay, Bennett was targeted six times to Marshall's five.

The Bears clearly believe in Bennett's ability, or else they wouldn't have rewarded the former third-round draft pick with a four-year, $18 million contract extension last December. He hasn't had a chance to display his true value because of the emphasis on Marshall and the weekly offensive struggles.

The Bears rank last in the league in passing at 177.2 yards per game, and they're 30th out of 32 teams in total offense (299.1 ypg).

"The biggest thing is everybody coming together and executing what's given to us,'' Bennett said. "There have been some times where we've been hot and we've shown how good we can be. And there's been some times where we've not looked so good.''

In terms of Bennett's individual performance, he admitted a freak hand injury, suffered earlier in the season while fielding a punt in practice, hindered him. He missed two games because of it.

"It was very odd, and that did set me back quite a bit,'' Bennett said. "But right now, I'm getting over it. Once in a while, it might hurt a little, but I'm good.''

Bennett hasn't dropped a pass this season, and his precise route-running and attention to detail are aspects the other receivers should emulate. He does his best work in the slot but might have to line up outside Sunday with Eric Weems and Dane Sanzenbacher the only other healthy receivers.

Bennett might have to contend with one of those big corners himself, but he'll have his chances regardless of the circumstances. He might want to follow the lead of the Cardinals' Andre Roberts and the Lions' Titus Young.

When Sherman and Browner put the clamps on Larry Fitzgerald (four catches, 63 yards), Roberts stepped up with five catches for 54 yards, including the game-winning touchdown. When the Seahawks duo limited Calvin Johnson (three catches, 46 yards), Young responded with nine catches for a career-high 100 yards, including the game-winning score.

Bennett isn't lobbying for more touches, as Hester did earlier in the season. He has waited patiently for his moment to shine.

Sunday might be it.

"I'm a team player,'' Bennett said. "As long as we win, I'm going to be all right.''

vxmcclure@tribune.com
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on November 29, 2012, 09:47:29 pm
Bennett needs to come up big this Sunday.  I have been looking for him to establish himself since Jeffries went out and it has not happened.

Wether it is Cutler or Bennett's fault it needs to get fixed.  Throwing to Marshall every passing down is not a winning combination.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 29, 2012, 10:18:43 pm
We could have really used Jeffery this Sunday in particular.

I am very concerned that the big Seattle CBs will shut Marshall down and as we saw against the Packers and Niners, that would put our O in a world of hurt.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 30, 2012, 06:54:38 am
How many times are we going to hear we need to step it up get the job done from these guys? I see no difference from game to game! Bennett just isn't getting the ball much and when he does, he has to make plays. All I see this game is more of Cut forcing it to Marshall and probably a couple int's because of it. We've got terrible TE's right now. Most of the time they're dropping balls thrown at them with the occasional good play,but not nearly enough production from them. SO that leaves us with Marshall once again. We seriously need to get some other guys involved in this offense. LAST in passing? With Cut?  With Marshall? Our FIRST 1000yd receiver in a decade and we're last.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on November 30, 2012, 07:00:31 am
Maybe...maybe maybe JUST maybe...that loss at SF will help this team. It may have jarred the brain cells loose on the coaches and made them realize what they've been doing with the Oline wasn't working. Maybe we'll luck into a compliment of linemen that just might be workable for the remainder of the season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 30, 2012, 07:56:52 am
That's what's so infuriating about this coaching staff. Every year it takes them at least a half a season to get their sh*t together and everyone pulling in the same direction.  And more often than not, benefical personnel changes are only made when someone who's underperforming gets hurt, otherwise the change wouldn't have been made at all. 

Seriously, it's December and we're just now getting the pass protection figured out?  I realize that when you don't have enough talent on the OL to start with there's only so much you can do, but at least some of this stuff should have been nailed down in training camp already. 

Same deal with the Hester thing.  Anyone with eyes could see that as soon as Hester went out our pass offense started looking the best it has all year.  Yet all year the coaches were force-fitting Devin into the offense.  It's also pretty apparent that Bush responds a lot better to the way our OL blocks (or doesn't), than Forte does, yet Forte continues to get the bulk of the reps.  W-T-F? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 30, 2012, 07:58:16 am
So Jared Allen's fine winds up being a whopping $6,000 more than Urlacher's fine for the horse collar on Peterson.

That makes a lot of sense.    ::)

Goodell is ruining this game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 30, 2012, 09:23:22 am
Same deal with the Hester thing.  Anyone with eyes could see that as soon as Hester went out our pass offense started looking the best it has all year.  Yet all year the coaches were force-fitting Devin into the offense.  It's also pretty apparent that Bush responds a lot better to the way our OL blocks (or doesn't), than Forte does, yet Forte continues to get the bulk of the reps.  W-T-F? 

No disagreement on the first comment.  Total disagreement on the second.

First of all, Forte is averaging almost a yard per carry more than Bush.  Bush is great in short yardage and the goal line but to give him the bulk of the carries would be a mistake.  Teams would tighten up their defense cuz they don't have to respect his speed. 

Having said that, Forte could feel the effects of his best pulling O-lineman out for the season.  That, and Forte being still gimpy, I could envision a 60/40 split of carries between Forte and Bush this weekend.

Bears need to keep feeding Forte and get him involved in the passing game...not reduce his load.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 30, 2012, 09:24:30 am

So Jared Allen's fine winds up being a whopping $6,000 more than Urlacher's fine for the horse collar on Peterson.

I was thinking the exact same thing.   I didn't see the Urlacher play - apparently he is going to appeal.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on November 30, 2012, 09:59:03 am
I was not aware of the injury to Jeffery or that he had to have arthoscopic surgery on his knee. I cant remember seeing a post here on the board, nor since my other source was the Trib, (which has cut me off)I was totally in the dark. I just figured it was his hand still giving him problems
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 30, 2012, 10:01:54 am
IF they were going to commit to using Forte as a receiving threat then yeah, he's more dangerous and valuable than Bush.  But the whole thing of using Forte as a receiving threat seems to have almost completely disappeared from the gameplan so there goes that advantage.

As strictly runners, I consider them pretty much even-steven with Forte (when healthy) having an edge on a fast track and Bush decidedly more effective on the slop of Soldier Field and in short yardage.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 30, 2012, 10:40:41 am
I was not aware of the injury to Jeffery or that he had to have arthoscopic surgery on his knee. I cant remember seeing a post here on the board, nor since my other source was the Trib, (which has cut me off)I was totally in the dark. I just figured it was his hand still giving him problems

They say he could be back by the Minnesota game...or at the latest Green Bay.  I think he had a minor cartilage tear at SF and it was 2-4 week recovery.  Right now its been about 2 weeks.

As for the Trib, you might want to try a different browser like Firefox or Chrome if you are using Intenet Explorer to get 5 more articles.  Most likely the Trib are using some sort of cookie to track your monthly usage...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on November 30, 2012, 10:46:16 am
Chrome really runs the show. fast.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on November 30, 2012, 11:09:10 am
Bennett needs to come up big this Sunday. 

Since he's our "play maker" I would agree!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 30, 2012, 11:27:02 am
Getting Jeffery back for next week's Vikings re-match would at least partially counterbalance the Vikings getting Harvin back.

Although in all honesty, the odds of either of those guys playing by then look pretty slim at this point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on November 30, 2012, 11:52:28 am
What a bullsh!t fine on Urlacher!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 30, 2012, 12:05:55 pm
I thought that was a pretty impressive play Urlacher made.

To pull down a 230-lb RB running at full speed with one hand shows strength I wasn't sure Urly had anymore.

I was talking to my brother (Vikings fan) last night and one of the local commentators is ex Vikings LB Ben Leber, and my brother said that even Leber thought the flag was BS.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on November 30, 2012, 12:30:41 pm
When I saw that Urlacher had been fined, I thought that it was for the concussion comments.  I cannot believe that it was for the horsecollar.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 30, 2012, 12:50:06 pm

IF it was a horse collar...then the fine comes with it...automatically.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 30, 2012, 12:51:36 pm
He pulled on the back of Peterson's jersey...  never came close to hooking the hands inside his pads.

If it was a horse collar it was pushing the definition to its very limits. 

Apparently Urlacher successfully appealed a fine before this so maybe they'll give him a break again.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Eastcoastfan on November 30, 2012, 02:55:51 pm
Wow, an automatic $15K for a horse collar.  Pretty steep.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 30, 2012, 03:39:56 pm

He pulled on the back of Peterson's jersey...  never came close to hooking the hands inside his pads.

I didn't see the play, but if he wasn't around the collar then it shouldn't have been a penalty.  You can pull a guy down by his jersey.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 30, 2012, 03:41:30 pm

Geez...what are they going to do next...fine Cutler for tossing the ball at that cornerback?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on November 30, 2012, 04:01:24 pm
Geez...what are they going to do next...fine Cutler for tossing the ball at that cornerback?

That play wouldn't have even drawn a flag if it was one of the Golden Boys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers or either of the Mannings.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on November 30, 2012, 04:14:12 pm

I remember Marshall did that to Cutler after a catch when the Bears played the Dolphins a year or two ago...he got flagged...not sure he got fined though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on November 30, 2012, 04:53:51 pm
IF it was a horse collar...then the fine comes with it...automatically.

That's what I'm saying.. IF!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on November 30, 2012, 06:47:18 pm

 FUUUCKIN SEATTLE GODDAMN MOTHERFUUUCKIN SHIIT !!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on December 01, 2012, 10:28:15 pm
Bush better than Forte? LMMFAO all day and all night long...not on his best day!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 02, 2012, 10:25:43 am
Sadly...need to put JJ on ignore even though I consider him a friend. The language and font size are not appropriate for where I typically open this site.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 02, 2012, 11:02:32 am
Where the heck are you opening this site?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 02, 2012, 11:03:45 am
Home today with  kids around and at work
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 03, 2012, 10:59:58 am
NFL Hot Seat Update: Gauging Every Head Coach After Week 13: Lovie Smith


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1429873-nfl-hot-seat-update-gauging-every-head-coach-after-week-13/page/11
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 03, 2012, 11:50:09 am
I think the only way Emery pulls the trapdoor on Lovie is if this team misses the playoffs and looks bad doing it.  As in, back to back losses to the next two beatable teams (Minny and AZ), followed by a meltdown vs. the Pack in Chicago.  That would mean the team had lost 4 straight games and it would ensure us at best a 9-7 record which I'm pretty sure would have us on the outside looking in for the postseason.

Even if we back is as the 6th seed I think that will be enough for him to stay.

I suspect that as in the past, this team will play just well enough to keep him and the crew around for at least one more year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on December 03, 2012, 12:32:53 pm
Honestly, I can't see much has changed over the Lovie years.  We can wring our hands about the O or D or ST or Injuries or Bad Calls or whatever each year.  The one constant is this coaching staff.  I admit I have no stats on these, just some general observations: 
  I think if we don't win the Super Bowl, Emery really has to consider whether we ever will if we keep the status quo with this coaching staff.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 03, 2012, 12:42:54 pm
I think if we make the playoffs that Lovie gets another year.
One thing about Lovie is that Cutler's pouting and Brigg's wreck are about all the drama that you hear about. There isn't a lot of dirty laundry that gets aired.

I think we can see improvement in guys on the D side of the ball.
Briggs was a mid round pick, Tillman has gotten better.
Tim Jennings was cut for Kelvin Hayden who is Tim's backup now.
Conte, Wright, DJ Moore, Daniele Manning all improved.

I feel much better about our development on the D side of the ball.
On O we have developed.............Lance Louis?
I can't think of anyone else. Bennett and Forte are pretty much what they have been the whole time.
I think we have seen some growth in Cutler, he doesn't throw as many INTs as he did at one time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 03, 2012, 12:55:19 pm
BearFan, that's an excellent analysis.

The other side is going to say of course that Lovie has been saddled all these years with subpar talent thanks to Angelo.  So we now have 3/4 of the season gone with the first post-Angelo draft class.  McClellin doesn't look noticeably better than he did the first game; if he's going to make the leap to being an impact player it doesn't look like it will be happening this year anyway. OTOH, he has stayed mostly healthy and it's not like any DEs drafted before or after him have done considerably better than him this year.  Alshon and E-Rod have missed so much time with injuries and/or being under/misutilized in the offense that it's hard to judge them, and Hardin didn't even make it onto the field before being redshirted.  So unfortunately there's really no basis to argue either for or against Lovie on that point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 03, 2012, 01:23:09 pm
I think I read that Irvin has 7 sacks to Shea's 3. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 03, 2012, 01:25:17 pm
Cutler and Marshall MUST be the centerpieces of any revamp Emery undertakes on the Bears.  They are head and shoulders above any other player we have on the offense and all but 2 or 3 players on our D.  The problem with chucking Lovie and crew is that you're then bringing in a new OC (again)...  unless Emery fired everyone but Bates, promoted Bates to OC and hired the rest of the staff (and HC) around that decision...  highly unconventional and almost certain to rule out any big-name HC who is going to want total say over his staffing.

Now...  there is one veteran, big name HC out there, not currently available, but who has history with Cutler and Marshall and Bates.  For that reason, I would be interested to hear Cutler and Marshall's take on their former Denver HC -- Mike Shanahan -- especially in comparison/contrast to Lovie.

A lot of people don't like Shanahan but he is still one of the best offensive minds in the game today and what he's got RG III doing out there in DC (with an average OL and virtually no WR talent to speak of), is astounding. He would also bring some intensity to the sideline that has always lacked during the Lovie regime.

It's a pipe dream to think the McCaskeys would ever outbid Danny Snyder for his services but it's interesting to think about. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 03, 2012, 01:26:58 pm
I think I read that Irvin has 7 sacks to Shea's 3.

Interesting. I did NOT want Irvin but if he's really producing like that (especially in spot duty), that's impressive.

I still think Emery's grand vision for McClellin is as a rush OLB in a 3-4 D...  but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 03, 2012, 01:29:39 pm
I just read that Rivera could be out as head coach of the Panthers.  I would be kind of cool karma if Lovie got canned and Chico got the job....after love axed him after our superbowl appearance. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 03, 2012, 01:32:15 pm
I don't know that Rivera is any better than Lovie.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 03, 2012, 01:43:36 pm
Lovie is a decent middle of the road coach. If you're satisfied with status quo, then lovie is your man. I personally am not. It's time for Lovie to go. Who should be the next head coach? That would be the million dollar question. If we hadn't just changed GM's, I'd say Lovie would be safe. With a new GM, I'm not sure he sticks (unless Virginia  has some say so, and if that's the case, why even have a GM)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 03, 2012, 01:45:02 pm
Honestly, I can't see much has changed over the Lovie years.  We can wring our hands about the O or D or ST or Injuries or Bad Calls or whatever each year.  The one constant is this coaching staff.  I admit I have no stats on these, just some general observations: 
 
  • They rarely seem to be able to develop talent.  When players come in through the draft, in trades or free agency, their skills are their skills.  They never seem to get much better than they already are when we acquire them.   
  • Our backups are not developed either, if we lose a player to injury, the backups rarely seem to come in and play at a similar or even acceptable level like the NE's or GB's of the NFL. 
  • Our players AND coaches seem to make dumb mistakes over and over whether through a lack of discipline, focus, experience or coaching. 
  • Our offensive and defensive schemes seem behind the modern era of the NFL. 
  • We rarely seem to make game plans or halftime adjustments to overcome our deficiencies or exploit the other team's weakness.
  • Our team seems to freeze in big games.
  • Our team seems to pull into a shell when we get a small lead rather than go for the jugular and not give teams hope to get back in it.
  • Our team is inconsistent with their level of urgency.
I think if we don't win the Super Bowl, Emery really has to consider whether we ever will if we keep the status quo with this coaching staff.

Agree!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 03, 2012, 01:45:25 pm
I say no to Rivera!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 03, 2012, 01:46:27 pm
No to Rivera.  That Panthers team badly underperformed its talent during most of his time there and his staffing decisions (especially on the offensive side of the ball) have been terrible.

If we wanted to give him a look as our DC, maybe (even though he's a 4-3 guy)...  but he's shown he's out of his league as a HC.

And really, to get with the times of today's NFL our new HC should really be coming from the offensive side of the ball.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on December 03, 2012, 07:42:17 pm
I think I read that Irvin has 7 sacks to Shea's 3.

Interesting. I did NOT want Irvin but if he's really producing like that (especially in spot duty), that's impressive.

I still think Emery's grand vision for McClellin is as a rush OLB in a 3-4 D...  but I could be wrong.

I think that wojuld be a wise move.  McClellin would do well.
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on December 03, 2012, 09:01:36 pm
Rivera would be awful. He has wrecked Carolina.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on December 04, 2012, 05:01:58 am
McClellin has added some juice to our d line that the stats don't show.  He went from being beaten in training camp, to a solid speed contributor.  He did seem to be used to spy Wilson this past Sunday which reduced his chances up the field.  Playing on a faster track Sunday, it will be interesting to see how he performs.

I think his place long term is on the line, unless the Bears switch defensive schemes to a 3-4.  Which also means Lovie is not the coach.  I don't see him being Urlachers's replacement. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 04, 2012, 01:49:09 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-rosenbloom-lovie-smith-trouble-20121204,0,1173948.column.  The Knives are starting to come out. His run might just be over.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 04, 2012, 02:03:18 pm
I wouldnt be that worried about poor Lovie just yet. Rosenbloom has no creds with the McCaskets
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 04, 2012, 02:05:28 pm
Whod does if your last namd isn't McCaskets? I guess toady Phillips, but after that? Meh.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 04, 2012, 04:00:08 pm
The news about Urlacher pretty much ensures no OL help coming in the 1st round next April.

Lovie will require that pick go to a MLB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 04, 2012, 06:05:35 pm
Well...what to do. We need a new coach. I really believe that. Maybe next season as much as I hate to think of it we trade Hester for either more picks or quality FA help either on the line, at backer or both. We've got a QB that can get us to the dance but we can't afford to wait 3-4 whatever years for a rebuilding cycle to get us back into contention. So IF we ditch Lovie,and I believe we should, we should get Cowher, trade Hester for a OL and LB, draft another of both and a wideout and acquire a real, true backup QB. This is going to take some deft manuevering but it can be done....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 04, 2012, 07:13:06 pm
I think some of you WAY over value Hester.  He is 30 year old special teamer, that frankly hasn't been that special.  As a WR he is a joke.

We would be lucky to get 1 decent player or a 4th round pick for him.  Don't forget he is over paid and no one wants a hefty contract to assume.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 04, 2012, 07:14:16 pm
Hester for picks? Dream on.

We'd get ONE pick for him... And no higher than a 4th at that.  His best days are behind him and I wouldnt be surprised if he calls it a career much sooner than many expect. Theres a lot of teams now with guys as fast as him and he just doesnt seem to love the game that much anymore.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 04, 2012, 07:15:15 pm
Hah Hiber you beat me to it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 04, 2012, 07:18:56 pm
I agree about Hester, anyone that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 04, 2012, 10:36:03 pm
http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/msn/jay_cutler_willing_to_take_less_money_to_stay_with_the_bears/12360919
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 05, 2012, 07:43:03 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/05/brian-urlacher-if-im-done-with-the-bears-ill-be-sad-but-not-crushed/

Sounds like a guy who sees the writing on the wall.

Emery's a stand-up guy but he's also a businessman.  Don't think he'll be handing out fat retirement contracts like Angelo did for Tommie and Kreutz.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 05, 2012, 12:18:24 pm
This is such a strange year.....started out guns blazing,full of hope. Ends with question marks all over the place. A D that is collapsing right before our eyes. Go from 7-1 to maybe 8-8?? Or 9-7?? That's a pretty serious collapse. Urlacher will probably come back but hard to tell really, like much of everything nowadays with this team....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 05, 2012, 12:26:52 pm
We'll see Sunday.  I don't personnally have much hope for a win, I think again, if its close the tank will run dry in the 4th qtr. The Bear could get steamrolled indoors. Not the fleetest of foot anymore. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on December 05, 2012, 01:30:30 pm
in 2006 - there were still questions leading up to Super Bowl Sunday - that's the way pro sports are scrutinized
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 05, 2012, 01:34:23 pm
Theres a lot of teams now with guys as fast as him and he just doesnt seem to love the game that much anymore.


What do you base that on?  Because of his concussion?  I don't see that from Hester at all about "seeming" not to love the game much anymore.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 05, 2012, 01:36:15 pm
So IF we ditch Lovie,and I believe we should, we should get Cowher, trade Hester for a OL and LB, draft another of both and a wideout and acquire a real, true backup QB. This is going to take some deft manuevering but it can be done....

Trade Hester for an OL and LB?  Hell why not throw in a receiver and a complete defensive front line while you're at it!

And since when do the Bears hire an ex-coach to be their HC?  That's not the Bears way.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 05, 2012, 01:51:41 pm
I don't think Hester has much value.
I also don't think any backup QB will be worth a hill of beans until we get the OL fixed.
Campbell and McCown are likely just fine if they have a few seconds to get rid of the ball.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 05, 2012, 02:18:54 pm
What do you base that on?  Because of his concussion?  I don't see that from Hester at all about "seeming" not to love the game much anymore.

He doesn't run with that same balls-out attitude anymore.  He's always dancing around, making fair catches, trying to get to the sidelines as fast as possible.  Plays like a guy that doesn't want to get hit more than a guy who wants to make something happen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on December 05, 2012, 06:16:41 pm
I think you are confusing Manning with Hester.  Manning ran with his head on fire and had that balls out approach.  Hester has been a cutter and quick change speed into top gear.

Hester has not been as effective.  We all see that.  A good portion is on him, but since I can't see the blocking, I don't know how much to put on the rest of the ST.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 05, 2012, 06:29:16 pm
Our return teams this year have been terrible. The worst in years. Hester has been a big part but I will concede its nit 100%on him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on December 05, 2012, 07:46:44 pm
I've thought the blocking hasn't been there like it was previous years on returns.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 05, 2012, 07:56:42 pm
The blocking sucks and they're drawing a lot more flags.

There have been some bad screwups on fake FGs and punts too... Ours and other teams'.

The STs are just a couple ticks down from normal all around. Maybe it's talent... Maybe Toub is losing his mojo. Maybe both.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 05, 2012, 08:54:18 pm

 Keysbear,

 If language and font size ever effected me mentally on an entertainment board ...

 I would have to ask how somthing as baseless as that ... could effect my outcome in the future ?
 
 That I would actually have to be afraid and censor my own mind of other peoples posts ...

 because they had a different point of view other then my own?

 Thats a day that we all should be afraid of ... look what its led to on this planet so far.

 GO FUUUCKIN BEARRSSE !!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 06, 2012, 08:28:16 am
I think a big part too is teams are trying to keep  Hester from burning them. They are kicking higher and shorter to allow coverage to get there. They are doing squib kicks, sideline kicks and lots of scheming to keep Hester from burning them. They will sacrifice 15 yards on the kick to reduce the risk of Hester killing them. The bigger problem is we don't have the OL to take advantage of the shorter fields.

I think if we can field a decent OL our O starts to be more consistent, you'll see teams taking more risk kicking to Hester because they don't want to give Cutler, Marshall and Forte a short field to work on.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 06, 2012, 01:15:34 pm
Hmmm...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/06/mike-nugents-injury-costs-jeff-faine-his-job/

Wonder how this guy compares to Gurode?  The name is familiar...  IIRC he was pretty decent, at least back in the day.  And at least he's not coming back to the game cold like Gurode.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 07, 2012, 02:10:27 am

Yeah, yeah, I know Urlacher is ancient and beat up and never was very good at the point of attack, even in his prime,  and now is worse but I didn't know that: 

he still leads the Bears with 88 tackles and is tied for the team lead with seven tackles for a loss. The likely Hall of Famer also recorded three forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries and an interception for a touchdown before suffering the hamstring strain.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on December 07, 2012, 07:00:38 am
Yeah, yeah, I know Urlacher is ancient and beat up and never was very good at the point of attack, even in his prime,  and now is worse but I didn't know that: 

he still leads the Bears with 88 tackles and is tied for the team lead with seven tackles for a loss. The likely Hall of Famer also recorded three forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries and an interception for a touchdown before suffering the hamstring strain.

Dallas - Please don't post facts, they get in the way of a good rant...  But the guy who would have been playing his position, would have played it twice as well...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 07, 2012, 08:38:34 am

Let's just hope Roach can play better in the middle then he did when Urlacher missed most of the season a couple years back after that freak wrist injury.  Roach only lasted a couple games then and was replaced by Hillenmayer. 

But everything I read says that Roach is better and more mature.  Also he did get some reps at MLB in the preseason so he should be more familiar this go around.

I wonder if they'll leave Roach in on nickel situations since he's usually taken out in those situations when he played SLB.

And Geno Hayes has tons of experience...but at WLB not SLB - he's kind of small at 225 for that position.

The guy I wouldn't mind seeing is JT Thomas...he looked pretty explosive in the pre-season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 07, 2012, 05:41:10 pm
Well I am down on Urlacher this year.  I will be watching with interest to see how defense performs particular the run defense without Lach.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 07, 2012, 05:49:05 pm
Peterson gained over 200 yards against the Pack, so I too will be interested to see how he does.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 07, 2012, 07:49:07 pm
I think Urlacher has been a great Bear LBer.  He might even be able to come back next year and play at a high level again.  However this year his play has been subpar due to his knee injury.

He is always the last guy to the play.  He has even said as much this year.
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on December 07, 2012, 09:20:23 pm
Peterson will not do as much as he did against GB who played a very sloppy tackling game.  He can't beat you if you just stop their weak passing game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 07, 2012, 10:13:18 pm
Yea, I think it was mentioned he leads the team in tackles. It was also mentioned he's not playing to his best either and he's playing at this level due to his smarts, not necessarily his physical talents. Most can see he isn't the same player. We'll see how it goes without him. I don't believe it will be near as catastrophic a loss as it has been in the past. The D hasn't exactly been lighting it up with him in there lately.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 07, 2012, 11:24:59 pm
 It's going to be about Peterson

 It's going to be about Peterson

 and Sidney Rice ... oh wait he already beat us.

 Well what you can do at Minnie is to put Ponder off the ball ...

 he should never even have any time to hand off to Peterson.

 If you are a GOOD BEARS Defense ... then issues should be settled behind THEIR L.O.S.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on December 08, 2012, 11:40:07 am
Peterson is a great attraction, like Barry Sanders but no matter how they performed they couldn't beat you.  That always seems to depend upon the passing game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 09, 2012, 01:55:27 am
Peterson is a great attraction, like Barry Sanders but no matter how they performed they couldn't beat you.  That always seems to depend upon the passing game.

 Just dont have a sense of confidence about this game Packy.

 We have too many wounded.

 DAA BEARRSSE are not N.E. where they plug in people.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 11, 2012, 12:29:26 pm
Bears place Robbie Gould on IR


http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8736629/robbie-gould-chicago-bears-placed-injured-reserve-olindo-mare-signed
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 12:52:31 pm
That Robbie Gould decision tells me Emery has already made some pretty major decisions about next year and that nothing that happens these last 3 games is going to materially change his mind. 

Look for a dramatically different Bears roster come September 2013.

Same article says they've already cut Gurode too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 11, 2012, 01:15:46 pm
Wow so Gould, McMannis and Steltz all on IR.  We are going to be kind of thin at the DB level.  Good to see Joe Anderson get called up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 01:19:07 pm
Wow so Gould, McMannis and Steltz all on IR.  We are going to be kind of thin at the DB level.  Good to see Joe Anderson get called up.

Sure has the feeling that preseason 2013 is starting early.  Whether by default or design, some young guys are gonna be getting significant time these last 3 games.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 02:27:02 pm
Here are 5 moves Emery could make this offseason that would firmly establish him as a stone cold mofo.

1) Fire Lovie (and by extension, at least some of his staff)

2) Trade/Cut Brian Urlacher

3) Trade/Cut Devin Hester

4) Trade/Cut Earl Bennett

5) Trade Julius Peppers for a good O-Lineman

I'm not saying I would agree with all these moves, but they are 5 decisions that would pretty much blow up the status quo and leave no doubt we're headed in a radically different direction for 2013. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 11, 2012, 02:43:12 pm
That would be radical for sure. I can't see them cutting Urlacher. I would think they'd bring him back for one more year, his final goodbye kinda thing. Peppers isn't playing near to the level of his contract, so he's either gotta take a huge cut in pay or bye bye see ya! Hester, I don't know one person who would cry if he were gone. I think it could be a good thing, actually. They would FINALLY stop using him as a reciever which has been one huge flop. The reason he's had any effect this season is other teams are remembering what he USED to do to them, not what he actually HAS been doing. He isn't the same dude running kicks anymore. Not the same threat. Bennett? Yea we definately can do better at that spot. And last but not least BYE BYE LOVIE. It's time. Time for new direction. Time for new blood that is HUNGRY and TALENTED! I'd scour the Pats for someone, honestly. Those suckers know how football works and do it the best of anyone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 02:56:22 pm
The only scenario in which I'd see Emery cutting Urlacher and Peppers would be if he hired a new HC, who brought in a new DC committed to the 3-4 and the new DC didn't think those two guys had any place in the new scheme.  Urlacher is not suited to a 3-4 scheme even if he were healthy.  Peppers MAYBE could have impact in a 3-4 along the lines of a J.J. Watt but you have to wonder how effective he would be in that role and how motivated he would be to basically re-learn his entire game at this point in his career.  The other option would be to try Peppers as an OLB but the Texans did that with Mario Willams (much the same type of player as Peppers physically), and it was a disaster.   A 25-year old, 100% healthy Peppers might have been able to pull it off, but the Peppers we've seen most of this year would get absolutely smoked.

Personally I would like to see Peppers kept (regardless of the scheme we use in 2013).  Even more so than Urlacher.  Urlacher is physically done but I don't get the same feeling about Peppers. I would like to see Pep have a full offseason to really rehab that foot and hopefully come back 100% healthy before we write him off for good.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 11, 2012, 03:05:41 pm
Here are 5 moves Emery could make this offseason that would firmly establish him as a stone cold mofo.

1) Fire Lovie (and by extension, at least some of his staff)

2) Trade/Cut Brian Urlacher

3) Trade/Cut Devin Hester

4) Trade/Cut Earl Bennett

5) Trade Julius Peppers for a good O-Lineman

I'm not saying I would agree with all these moves, but they are 5 decisions that would pretty much blow up the status quo and leave no doubt we're headed in a radically different direction for 2013. 


Firing Lovie is a no brainer and a dream come true right now.  Losing Urlacher and Hester not a problem.  I might hang on to Bennett and see what happens when he gets healthy.  Peppers, I would let go.  If you are going to blow up the whole D scheme, why hang on to an old guy who has really dropped off this year.  His foot may never heal. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 03:12:37 pm
To me, Bennett is one of the biggest tragedies on this whole team this year.

My hopes for him in combination with Marshall and Jeffery were sky high but between the injuries, the lack of usage when he is healthy and the uncharacteristic clutch drops he has been a huge disappointment.

He might be one of Emery's most difficult decisions because healthy and in the right system he could be one of the best "complementary" WRs in the league but I'm not sure the opportunity to establish himself in that role hasn't already passed him by primarily cause he can't stay out of the training room.  Even with all the history he and Cutler have from college days, the connection on the field just hasn't been there this season.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 11, 2012, 03:40:21 pm
I'd keep Bennett, the other moves wouldn't upset me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 03:58:50 pm
I think the disillusionment a lot of Bears fans seem to be feeling towards Peppers is that, when you look at what we're paying him, you expect multiple "splash" plays from the guy game in and game out, and that simply hasn't happened.  You don't pay $15 mil a year to a guy that simply draws double teams... you pay $15 mil a year to a guy who draws double teams, beats them, and still makes bad things happen to the other team -- on a regular basis.

I'm not ready to close the book on Peppers yet (unless the foot thing turns out to be chronic)...  but when you see guys like Aldon Smith, J.J. Watt, Von Miller and Clay Matthews (when healthy) regularly wrecking the other team's offense to a degree that Peppers has only rarely done during his time in Chicago, it starts to make you wonder.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Emery approached Peppers about a contract restructure/reduction this offseason. Especially if it looks like his foot issues aren't gonna be going away.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 11, 2012, 04:03:46 pm
That Robbie Gould decision tells me Emery has already made some pretty major decisions about next year and that nothing that happens these last 3 games is going to materially change his mind.

I don't get that at all - Gould's injury must be more serious than we thought.  There's no message in that decision.


Too bad we can't bring back the rook Brandon Hardin at safety off IR.

Joe Anderson will replace McMannis on special teams but they still need to sign a backup safety.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 04:07:07 pm
I don't get that at all - Gould's injury must be more serious than we thought.  There's no message in that decision.

What I mean is that Emery's not going to try any more smoke and mirrors roster wise to try and get Lovie 2-3 more wins to save his job. Feels to me like Emery has seen enough and frankly, having dropped the last two very winnable games, so have I.

Olindo Mare is not a great kicker.  If Emery wanted Lovie to keep his job I think he would have kept Gould on the roster and had the trainers moving heaven and earth to have him good to go for this playoff push...  or at least as good as possible.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 04:11:32 pm
Joe Anderson will replace McMannis on special teams but they still need to sign a backup safety.

I hear Adam Archuleta has been keeping himself in pretty good shape...   ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 11, 2012, 04:16:06 pm
If Emery wanted Lovie to keep his job I think he would have kept Gould on the roster and had the trainers moving heaven and earth to have him good to go for this playoff push...  or at least as good as possible.

Emery should be trying his best to win out the rest of this season and doing everything in his power to do that, regardless of Lovie.  There will be time at the end of the season to make those kind of decisions.

I think Gould's injury is more serious than thought - no way Emery is sabatoging the season by cutting a new pro bowl level kicker unless there was a good reason to do so.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 11, 2012, 04:17:45 pm
How on earth does a kicker end up on IR??? What did he do to himself? Wasn't it in practice or before a game or some such nonsense?? WTH....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 04:20:14 pm
I already had a bad feeling about the Vikings game during warmups and then the tweet came over about Gould hurting himself in warmups and that pretty much confirmed that it was gonna be one of those days. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 04:26:55 pm
Have any of the Chicago media outlets reported a peep on the closed-door meeting that Emery and Lovie supposedly had somewhere in the Metrodome after the loss on Sunday.  A Twin Cities outlet broke the story but not sure if any Chicago writers picked it up...  would be very interesting to know what was promised and/or threatened during that conversation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 11, 2012, 04:36:13 pm
1) Fire Lovie (and by extension, at least some of his staff)

If the Bears do not even make the playoffs - Tice is a goner and possibly Lovie.  Another option would be to make the QB coach the OC.

2) Trade/Cut Brian Urlacher 

You'd get nothing in a trade.  And you can't cut him because he's a FA so there's no cap savings.  If he'd take a one year deal Bears should consider it.  He's not the same #54 as old but its not like his play is causing us to lose games.  We need to find his replacement though but we have other needs.

3) Trade/Cut Devin Hester

He's not a bad returner...not a great one either.   He just needs to be 5th WR on the depth chart.  Do we have a better returner on the roster - it sure ain't Weems.

4) Trade/Cut Earl Bennett

Yeah, Bennett had that huge drop against the Seahawks and has been injury prone the last couple of years.  But I think he's a keeper - just needs to be used more.

5) Trade Julius Peppers for a good O-Lineman

Pepper is leading the team in sacks.  He's no longer an elite player, but where you going to replace that production?   He still commands double teams and enables guys like Melton, Wooten, and Idonijie to get sacks.   

His sacks are about on par with what he's had in the past years with the Bears, but his PDs, FFs, and Interceptions...are way down....in fact all stats are big zeros.  He's still a force in the run game, but he has this habit of crashing inside on run downs and teams are running to his outside for big gains.  That's a coaching problem though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 04:49:17 pm
It's easy to say "find Urlacher's replacement" but I'm not sure people really understand how difficult that is going to be. On top of which, going all-out to find that player would likely compromise efforts to address other areas of crying need on this team, i.e., OL and TE.  There are only so many draft picks and so much FA money to go around, and every year we let pass without significant improvements at OL and TE is another year wasted in the prime of Cutler and Marshall's careers.  No question that Manti Teo in a Bears uni is a wet dream, but at the cost of Cutler being brutalized yet another season?  No thanks.

A Pro Bowl MLB is only a necessity if your scheme requires it. Seems to me the more logical track would be to bring in a new defensive mind who can implement a scheme that works WITHOUT a player the caliber of Urlacher in his prime.  There are teams out there with slightly above average LBs who are still playing pretty good defense (the NY Giants come to mind).  A scheme that can leverage the good (not great) LBs we already have would make a lot more sense than moving heaven and earth to try and acquire the next Urlacher. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 11, 2012, 07:12:37 pm
I would take T'eo if he were available. Bears have a rich tradition of top MLB's and he'd fit in there. We can get help for the Oline in the 2nd and 3rd. 1st round picks haven't exactly panned out on the line anyway lately. But T'eo doubtful will be available so I'd go for TE Eifert if he were there. He would help the line and definately help the recieving corps,giving Cut a excellent quick option with great hands. We can go one more year with Url but we need someone behind him, some depth. So Oline, TE, if available T'eo, reciever, backer, corner. something along those lines....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 11, 2012, 07:18:52 pm
If we can score a servicable OT in FA, we could go LB in the first, TE/OG in the second and the third would be the other.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 11, 2012, 07:27:50 pm
From PFT, too funny:

Just amazing to think that Bears fans are paying attention to who the Bears kicker will be this week against the Packers. They need to worry about whether or not the scoreboard at Soldiers Field can register 3 digits for the Packers. Let’s hope Lovie got stuck in Minnesota.
 
But then I am sure there were passengers on the Titanic who were worried about the last song the band was going to play.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 07:45:14 pm
Unless Emery can swing a trade we dont have a 3rd round pick this year. That's Miami's as part of the Marshall deal.

Which means the 1st, 2nd and even the 4th rounders have to be homeruns.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 11, 2012, 07:47:16 pm
Opps, my bad.  And no pressure there.  Good grief.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 11, 2012, 08:04:13 pm
I see people saying they're worried we'll reach on an Olineman in the 1st but I think reaching for a MLB is just as possible and potentially far more damaging. Theres not a single position on the OL that couldn't stand an upgrade so if the best guy on the board when we pick is a G or even a C I say go for it and worry about the MLB later.

I've never seen as much terrible OL play across the league as Ive seen this year. There are going to be a TON of GMs churning their OLs this offseason and if we don't jump on the best players in both the draft and FA, we'll lose out. Competition will be fierce and if that means we have to draft a kid half a round higher than the "experts" have him rated or pay a little over market value for the top FA, so be it. We've tried to jerry-rig an OL on the cheap for years and we see where thats gotten us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on December 12, 2012, 06:23:13 am
I would agree offensive lines are thin on many teams.  The teams with good ones are winning consistently.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 12, 2012, 07:59:53 am
I don't see a real problem reaching. If you get a guy in the 1st or second round who will be a quality starter  then that is better than what we have.

You have to balance the BPA vs need though else you have a decent team with no playmakers and never get over the hump.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 08:18:02 am
One thing that gives me confidence about Emery is that every place he's been, while he was there, their OLs were very solid and deep.

Patriots, Falcons...  even the Chiefs, although they are brutal this year, while Emery was there had an OL that was if not Top-10, at least in the top half of the league in both pass protection and run blocking.  Emery has seen what good OLs (and good O-Linemen) look like and as long as he recognizes that we have significant problems with that unit -- which I believe he does recognize -- I have confidence he'll bring the players and coaches in here this offseason that are necessary to fix this. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on December 12, 2012, 09:35:16 am
I wouldn't spend the first on LT.

There is too much learning curve the rookie year and we need to complement the veteran tam we have not rebuild.

Need to go balls out on  a FA LT,  1st can go most anywhere, 2nd OG. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 12, 2012, 09:37:40 am
I think an upgrade at G and maybe RG would be more valuable than replacing Webb at LT unless there is a stud there which I doubt there will be one there at the 15-18 pick we are likely to get.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 09:40:05 am
Not that we need anything else to add to the offseason wish list but one thing Emery really needs to be targeting is a decent sized (6'-ish) WR who can flat-out fly.  Marshall is a beast but isn't gonna get behind a lot of people. Same deal with Alshon. Bennett is a possession guy. Hester has been an abject failure as a WR and Knox isn't coming back. 

Now given the fact that Cutler never has time to look downfield or to the 2nd option beyond Marshall, this deficiency has been largely a non-factor this year.  But it's something that needs to be addressed nonetheless.  Percy Harvin is not happy in Minnesota and when healthy, he would give us everything that we hoped we'd be getting with Hester.  But he has a pretty littered medical history and will probably ask top dollar even coming off a major foot injury.  It would be a high-risk, high-reward acquisition.  The other choice would be to try and find that guy somewhere around the 4th round of the draft.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 09:45:49 am
Need to go balls out on  a FA LT,  1st can go most anywhere, 2nd OG.

Here's how I'd see it.

LT - Top FA  (Clady or Albert - too much risk with Long)
LG - Draft best available in 1st round  (Warmack or the UNC guy)
C - Draft best available in 2nd round OR 2nd-tier FA if our 2nd rounder goes for TE - this guy MUST be our starter from Day One cause Garza is not starting caliber anymore
RG - Louis (assuming he comes back 100%)
RT - Open competition between Webb, Carimi and Scott. This still makes RT a weak link but with the other 4 positions so much improved I think we could get by.  Keep the 2nd best of the 3 as depth and the guy who comes up last in that competition gets cut.

Let James Brown get into the mix for RT and if he can't win that spot he's depth at that position and OG as well.  Cut Edwin Williams. Keep either Spencer or Garza (not both) as a backup at C/G.

TE anywhere in the 1st round makes me really nervous after the Greg Olsen thing. And then if we're up there in the 15-18 range it makes me even more nervous.  Is Eifert really a Top-20 type of player?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 12, 2012, 10:32:37 am
Here's hoping we see a drastically different OL next year.  DRASTICALLY.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 12, 2012, 10:47:01 am
I'd never draft a center in the 2nd round, maybe 3rd or 4th round is where you draft centers. And we definitely need a TE. While Eifert is good and I'd love him but the difference between the college game and the NFL is the speed of the players is better. Eifert may be a fine college TE but not so hot pro. But I know one thing sure the guy has good hands and can go up for balls and come down with the ball. He is worth a 1st round pick for sure. If there were no LTs left when we draft I wouldnt pass over a player such as Eifert except if he doesnt show well speed wise at the combine
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 10:59:47 am
I want to see how Eifert does in the BCS Championship against a Bama defense that's as close to a pro-caliber D as you're gonna find outside the NFL.

If he makes an impact against that D in the biggest game of his life, then I'll be sold... but until then I'm cautious.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 11:01:29 am
I'd never draft a center in the 2nd round, maybe 3rd or 4th round is where you draft centers.

Well we don't have a 3rd-round pick this year so that kind of limits our options.  And by the 4th round you're not gonna find a Day One starter at C especially this year when it's gonna be a seller's market like you've never seen on O-Linemen at all positions. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 12, 2012, 11:07:08 am
Fair enough. But be aware that as their go to guy you can expect doubling on Eifert to attempt to take him out of the game. So just because he has a poor game catch wise doesnt mean he isnt worth a 1st rounder. If Alabama's defense is as good as you think it is then ND will have to be more creative in getting the ball to Eifert, which I doubt
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 11:09:45 am
I'm just really leery about spending a 1st rounder on a TE.  IIRC Gronkowski was a 2nd round pick, Hernandez a 4th round pick, a lot of the other premier TEs in the league were found in that 2nd-3rd round range.

The other thing you have to consider is value, i.e., supply and demand.  Half the teams in the league are going to be looking at O-Linemen in April whereas not a lot of teams have the need at TE that we do... which means some really good TEs not named Eifert could take a fall in our favor.   The other option that several have mentioned would be to try and pry Jared Cook away from the Titans.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 12, 2012, 11:30:06 am
Unfortunately we have a glaring need at TE AND OL.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 11:44:18 am
This Bears team is so damn flaky...  for all we know they could pull out a miracle win Sunday and then go down to Arizona and lose to a 4-10 team.

But at least in that scenario we wouldn't have the Packers clinching the division on our home field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 11:49:37 am
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4681073/bears-re-sign-dt-okoye

A little more color on the Okoye re-signing and it also sheds some light on the recent struggles we have had with injuries at DT.

To be honest I wasn't aware Melton and Paea had been hurting as much as this article says.  May be partially a function of them being a bit undersized and also having to play more reps than planned due to our ineffective offense. I knew Melton had been having some struggles since midseason but didn't know Paea had been quite that banged up too.  Which combined with Peppers' foot thing would explain the lack of get-off we've seen on the DL of late. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 12, 2012, 12:00:20 pm
I think an upgrade at G and maybe RG would be more valuable than replacing Webb at LT unless there is a stud there which I doubt there will be one there at the 15-18 pick we are likely to get.

The Bears are adapting to Webb's abilities and not putting him in many situations where he can be exposed.  He hasn't given up a sack in weeks...but the help he is getting is hurting the offense by reducing the number of receivers in the pattern.   I think LT is a priority - hopefully there is quality at our spot.   I'd be stunned if a quality LT becomes available in free agency.

Not that we need anything else to add to the offseason wish list but one thing Emery really needs to be targeting is a decent sized (6'-ish) WR who can flat-out fly.  Marshall is a beast but isn't gonna get behind a lot of people. Same deal with Alshon. Bennett is a possession guy. Hester has been an abject failure as a WR and Knox isn't coming back.

Totally agree.  He doesn't have to be a giant like Marshall and Jeffery but we need a Knox clone and we got him in the 4th or 5th.


TE anywhere in the 1st round makes me really nervous after the Greg Olsen thing. And then if we're up there in the 15-18 range it makes me even more nervous.  Is Eifert really a Top-20 type of player?

Come on folks - we know Greg Olsen isn't a bruiser -  not a strong blocker and doesn't fight for that extra yard when tackled but he's already got 700 yards receiving and leading his team with 5 TD passes...and at almost 13 yards a reception.  Yeah, but we need a big tough guy...you know..like Kellen Davis.

Need to find a TE that is a receiver first a blocker second.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 12:16:32 pm
I'd be stunned if a quality LT becomes available in free agency.

Well if that player does come available he'll command a king's ransom -- but also don't discount the possibility of a trade.

If Emery sees a great veteran LT out there that he thinks has 5 or 6 good years left and is better than any guy we could draft, nothing says he couldn't package our 1st round pick this year with a couple picks from next year and/or a player to get a deal done.  Not to put unrealistic expectations on our GM but at the same time, none of us thought in a million years that Brandon Marshall would be a Bear either.

Need to find a TE that is a receiver first a blocker second.

That Kyle Rudolph kid the Vikings got is impressive, and a guy I think is going to vex our division for a long time.  He's a massive guy that can block well enough but also has huge soft hands. He's smart, and a nightmare to shut down in the red zone.  He's what I was hoping Kellen would turn into but obviously isn't going to.  A guy like him should be around in the 2nd and we'd be wise to take a long look at that opportunity if it presents itself.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 12, 2012, 12:17:36 pm
Eifert isnt the greatest blocker but he is probably better than Kellen Davis.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 12, 2012, 12:33:48 pm
"Need to find a TE that is a receiver first a blocker second."

Isnt that wad Evan Rodriguez was supposed to be???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 12, 2012, 12:34:33 pm
The sad thing about Kellen Davis is that he came out of college as a receiving threat - was really never called upon to block.  He had played some DE so I figured blocking could be easily picked up in the NFL.

Deep down I think he can contribute as a receiver but each week it gets more and more frustrating - I was at the point last week during the game that I was all for terminating him right there during the game.  Hester was also on my list.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 12:35:00 pm
Here's hoping we see a drastically different OL next year.  DRASTICALLY.

Agree 100%.  If we go into 2013 with any MORE than 2 of the same starters we had this year (one of them being Louis), then Emery has failed us.

It's not about the coaching, the scheme or the playcalling here, folks (although none of those has been up to snuff either).  This is a talent issue first and foremost.  It hasn't helped that Tice has almost every one of our O-Linemen playing something other than their natural position but the fact of the matter is that a lot of them just aren't very good football players.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 12:36:05 pm
Isnt that wad Evan Rodriguez was supposed to be???

Apparently E-Rod is a FB.  Not a position you typically draft in the 4th round but then what do I know.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 12, 2012, 12:38:08 pm
Isnt that wad Evan Rodriguez was supposed to be???

In this offense the TE is required to have the skills of an offensive tackle first...a receiver second.   Regardless of where he plays, which is FB right now, the Bears don't really utilize him as a receiver, which I think is wrong.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 12:43:16 pm
In this offense the TE is required to have the skills of an offensive tackle first...a receiver second.   Regardless of where he plays, which is FB right now, the Bears don't really utilize him as a receiver, which I think is wrong.

This is just one thing that makes me think Tice's days as an OC are numbered.

His utilization of our personnel this season has been questionable to say the least.  E-Rod used as a lead blocker when we are desperate for a dependable receiver at TE.  Michael Bush at 245 lbs on the sidelines in critical short-yardage situations.  Alshon and/or Bennett held out to give Hester more reps.  Kellen Davis constantly on the field and continually targeted even though he's had drop after drop after drop. Etc. etc.

No one's gonna say we've got world-beating talent on this offense (Cutler, Marshall, and a 100% healthy Forte notwithstanding)...  but that doesn't mean you can't play to the strengths of the players you've got.  I'm pretty sure Emery had more in mind for his 2nd and 4th round picks than what Jeffery and E-Rod have had for opportunities in this system.  And same deal with Bush (though I understand he's been nicked-up of late).  Emery can't tell his OC how to use the players he's brought in, but he can fire the OC post facto if he thinks he's been squandering resources and the team has lost games because of it.

As for Lovie -- who presumably is Tice's boss -- he appears to be absolutely unwilling to intervene in the offense in any regard which in my mind makes him an accomplice to the problem and as much to blame as Tice if not more so.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 01:19:41 pm
Last Sunday I was watching the Niners/Fins game with my brother (a Vikings fan) and we were both struck by how the Niners offense was literally in a different league than the two sorry offenses we had just watched in the Bears/Vikings game.  Yeah, part of it was the clearly superior talent of the Niners offense at virtually every position (especially OL), but even more so was the way their offense had a rhythm and a flow.  It was balanced, it showed intelligent thinking, and it just looked "right".  They were making it look easy...  as opposed to the Bears who so often make every gain look like a major undertaking and just barely keep drives going by the skin of their teeth.  Same could be said when you watch the Patriots.  THAT's the point we need to get to... and if it takes churning half the starting lineup and some coaches, so be it.     
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 12, 2012, 03:24:54 pm

This unfortunately has been the case for Bears offenses for most of the last 30 years or so.  Looking back over the last few decades most of the Bear head coaches have had a defensive mentality.  Offenses have been for the most part vanilla or inept...or both.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 03:41:40 pm
It's really a shame cause a few years ago when our D was in its prime and Hester was destroying the league on returns, the only things that held us back from contending for multiple titles were: 1) bad QB play; 2) no #1 WR and 3) an incompetent OC. 

Now we've got a magical QB and WR combo but we still don't have the OC, we're missing most of the other pieces on O, and the D and special teams are going south as well.

Lovie has never been able to pull all the aspects of this team together and get them all consistently playing well for a prolonged period, and because of that I believe his legacy will be of a decent, loyal employee and a good (not great) HC who squandered the careers of some pretty talented players and left a lot of wins on the table. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 12, 2012, 03:45:08 pm
How many times are we going to ditch Okoye, pick him back up..ditch him again, pick him back up....this is getting absurd! Hi! Bye! Hi! Bye again! Hello once again!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 03:52:21 pm
Yeah that's a weird thing we've got going on with Okoye.

Apparently he's good enough for us to sign repeatedly yet no other team in the league wants him.

It would be nice to see him reward us with a monster breakout season next year but he may be as good as he's ever gonna get.

Okoye, Melton, Collins and Paea make a nice 4-DT rotation from an athletic standpoint, but there's not a lot of size in that group and that can wind up costing us as it did against Peterson Sunday.

BTW it sounds like Paea will be good to go for Sunday.  Sounds like Melton is TBD and no word whatsoever on McClellin.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 12, 2012, 03:56:28 pm
I'd say Okoye at least has two, maybe three more times this season to be cut/picked back up.....there's three games left, ya know.....lol
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 04:07:17 pm
Melton and Paea have both been banged up a lot the 2nd half of this season.  If Okoye is healthy, that would allow us to reduce Melton or Paea's reps the rest of the way (if not shut one of them down altogether), and still not have a gaping hole at that position. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 12, 2012, 04:26:36 pm

Injury report says Paea is better off right now than Melton.   Bears usually dress 3 DTs...with Okoye back they can dress 3 pass rushers (Collins) and let one heal (Melton) and let one sit (Toeaina).

Bears didn't practice today because a bunch of guys are beat up - injury report tomorrow will be more accurate.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 12, 2012, 04:33:03 pm
Yeah I'm guessing Toeaina goes back to the inactive list for this game since pressure on Rodgers is going to be more important than stuffing the run game. 

That being said...  based on the Sunday night game it looks like the Packers may be figuring out how to run the ball.  That could cause real problems not just for us but the NFC as a whole.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 12, 2012, 05:01:26 pm

Yeah, just what we need...Ryan Grant and Greg Jennings back to their old form.

But...compared to what we've been facing in recent weeks...Chris Johnson, Frank Gore, Adrian Petersen (twice) and Marshawn Lynch...we better be able to handle Green and Starks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 12, 2012, 05:38:09 pm
GB with Rogers can play 10 guys on O with no RB passing every down and still shred us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 13, 2012, 12:30:28 pm
Better talent and better coaching are both obviously needed in Chicago, but to date Emery has been operating with one hand tied behind his back.  He has had hire/fire authority over the players, but it's been hands-off as far as the coaching staff.  As of our last game of this season (whenever that may be), EVERYONE is fair game and that's when Emery can really move into Phase 2 as aggressively (or not) as he feels is necessary.

One scenario I thought of last night that may be possible (but may not make Bears fans very happy) is something like this:

- Lovie fired  (or more likely, "retires")
- Tice promoted to HC
- Bates promoted to OC
- Marinelli and defensive staff retained

From a continuity perspective especially on the offense, there would be merit to this decision. Even though Tice was nothing spectacular as Minnesota's HC, he was a lot better in that role than he has proven to be as our OC.  And if we're gonna promote from within I'd sure rather it be Tice than Marinell, whose HC stint in Detroit was historically tragic. 

That all being said, the above scenario reeks of a half-measure and that doesn't seem like Emery's style. I think that if Emery pulls the plug on Lovie that most if not all of the current staff will be shown the door as well.  As rough as it might be on the players (Cutler and our defensive veterans in particular) to acclimate to an entirely new coaching staff, a clean sweep is usually the best course of action in these situations...  especially if you're trying to pull a big-name HC. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 13, 2012, 01:13:13 pm
If Lovie goes, Marinelli and Babich HAVE TO GO.  No debate.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 13, 2012, 01:21:11 pm
Tice as HC? NO tanx. Gimme Gruden.....we need a bit more 'fire' under our keisters....Tice didnt' do well with Minny.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 13, 2012, 01:29:08 pm
If Emery wants to dump the Tampa-2 then yeah, Lovie and the whole defensive staff will be gone.

Marinelli might be a decent coach but the Tampa-2 is all he knows and so it's kind of a package deal.

The problem with that approach is we've got a whole roster of defensive players who were drafted for the Tampa-2 and who knows how many of them will be effective in whatever scheme we'd install next?

It may come down to whether Emery feels the quickest fix for our defense lies in acquiring some younger and better players to play in the existing scheme, or to replace the scheme in favor of one whose viability doesn't depend on having Pro Bowlers at 5 or 6 positions.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 13, 2012, 01:32:08 pm
What exactly has Marinelli developed while he has been here?  Maybe Wooten and Melton, maybe?   And they are not setting the world on fire. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 13, 2012, 01:59:37 pm
I wouldn't mind keeping Tice as OL coach and Bates as QB coach, that is about it right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 13, 2012, 02:25:11 pm
Really torn on Tice.

Clearly he's a bust as an OC so do you launch him altogether or do you kick him back down to OL coach?  On one hand I'd like to see him get the chance to work solely as an OL coach with some actual players.  OTOH if he's the guy that's been lobbying to keep the stiffs we have on the roster and he's still saying the guys we've got can play, then he obviously has some blind spots as far as assessing talent and I'm not sure that's a guy we want to keep around.

Toub is another tough call.  Probably the most competent guy on our entire staff and immensely respected around the league, but to say our STs are having a down year is putting it kindly. 13 games into the season without a single punt or kick returned for a TDs is unthinkable for Bears fans.  Has Toub lost his mojo, is he burned out, have other teams solved his plays, did Hester in his prime make Toub look better than he was, or was he just given an unusually weak crew of ST players this year?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 13, 2012, 02:49:35 pm
Tice is one of those guys you need to have a interview with, find out where his head is truly at. Ask him if he thinks he has the pieces in place to make a good line. If he says 'yes' then ditch the guy, he's lost it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 13, 2012, 02:58:25 pm
I agree right now with Findley but I also agree with Briggs. Url has lost a step but Briggs has the right attitude we need to kick Packer butt this Sunday- enough losing, time to stand up and make a statement and win! Briggs statement about respect and not liking the Pakers are mine to a T. Gotta love Lance.

Briggs on Packers' Finley: 'He's an idiot'   
12:18 p.m. CST, December 13, 2012

A day after Brandon Marshall injected some passion into the Bears-Packers rivalry, Lance Briggs continued the colorful approach to Sunday’s game at Soldier Field.

"I’m sick of it," Briggs said of losing to the Packers.
 
Green Bay has won five consecutive in the series and Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers is 8-2 in his career vs. the Bears, including the NFC Championship Game after the 2010 season.

Packers tight end Jermichael Finley suggested Wednesday that the Bears might be better off with middle linebacker Brian Urlacher sidelined because of a pulled hamstring. Finley noted Urlacher doesn’t move like he did previously in his storied career and suggested Nick Roach was an upgrade.

"Urlacher is at the end of his career right now; he's playing a little slow out there," Finley said, according to FoxSportsWisconsin.com. "I don't think they're losing too much if he's out. Putting another guy (Nick Roach) in might help them a little."

Asked about Finley's comments, Briggs didn’t hesitate.

"He’s an idiot," Briggs said. "Suit up and play ball."

Marshall said he would not shake the hands of Packers players, but the wide receiver is new to the rivalry. Briggs has been a part of it since being drafted in 2003.

"I have a lot of respect for their team and their players and their accomplishments," Briggs said. "It doesn’t matter. I don’t like the Packers and we gotta win.
"This means the world right now. We have to win this game. So many reasons go into it. Playoffs, everything is on the line. We’re confident we can go out and get a win.”

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 13, 2012, 07:10:46 pm
it would have been easier to win a couple games that they should have won then this game wouldn't be so tough.
I won't be surprised if we squeak by the Packers this week and then they wax us in the 1st round of the playoffs.
I also won't be surprised if we lose to them, the Lions and the Cardinals and go home.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 13, 2012, 07:11:45 pm
I have a feeling it is going to be a close game, Rodgers is going to get a TD to win it, and Lovie will say we played them strong, but still are playoff bound.  That SHOULD be the last nail in his coffin. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 14, 2012, 10:54:49 am
I wonder if Emery thought about giving this guy a look before we signed Olindo Mare...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/14/former-steelers-k-jeff-reed-wants-another-chance/

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 14, 2012, 11:39:19 am
I can't believe anyone would think of retaining Tice. The whole coaching staff needs to go. When Emery was hired, he was told "hands off" in regards to the coaching staff. I'm certain he went to the coaches to find out what positions needed to be addressed. I blame the coaching staff as much as anyone for this crappy O line that Cutler has once again had to play behind. Clean house and let Emery start over..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 14, 2012, 11:45:34 am
Well if Emery does clean house I would hope that finally, for once, we can do things in a logical order.

1) FIRST hire the HC

2) Then hire the assistants the HC wants

3) Then re-shape the roster with the talent the HC feels he needs

Very rarely if ever has this logical order been followed in the Halas Hall way of doing things and hence the results.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 14, 2012, 11:51:57 am
I can't believe anyone would think of retaining Tice. The whole coaching staff needs to go. When Emery was hired, he was told "hands off" in regards to the coaching staff. I'm certain he went to the coaches to find out what positions needed to be addressed. I blame the coaching staff as much as anyone for this crappy O line that Cutler has once again had to play behind. Clean house and let Emery start over..

Man you ain't kiddin'! It's amazing how some Bear fans would want to keep this bad offensive coordinator and this BS that Tice is some great OL coach is  hilarious.  The last 3 years the line has gone from bad to worse and someone wants to retain him?  Incredible.....
 
LAUNCH HIM NOW for all I care.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 14, 2012, 11:55:01 am
Launching Tice but keeping Lovie won't make things any better.

None of the top-tier OCs want to work under Lovie and we've seen that a couple of times already.

Bates is the only coach I would really want to see retained so Cutler isn't starting completely from scratch (again).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 14, 2012, 12:02:55 pm
Man you ain't kiddin'! It's amazing how some Bear fans would want to keep this bad offensive coordinator and this BS that Tice is some great OL coach is  hilarious.  The last 3 years the line has gone from bad to worse and someone wants to retain him?  Incredible.....
 
LAUNCH HIM NOW for all I care.

You'd have to launch your buddy Lovie first, but you would be against that for sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 14, 2012, 12:14:24 pm

None of the top-tier OCs want to work under Lovie and we've seen that a couple of times already.


What top tier OC are you talking about?   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 14, 2012, 12:18:26 pm
What top tier OC are you talking about?   

Well, obviously guys NOT named Ron Turner, Mike Martz or Mike Tice.

That's why we got saddled with Martz in the first place.  We dumped Turner without having a new guy lined up and it turned out Martz was the only one we could get to take the job.  So our genius braintrust hired Martz knowing full-well we absolutely didn't have the personnel to run his system and no plan to get those players either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 14, 2012, 12:19:25 pm
Seems like you don't have an answer for the question.  Not surprised.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 14, 2012, 12:25:05 pm
Two OCs that I think are doing really good work right now are the guys for the 49ers and the Giants.  Fundamentally sound but not boring. Creative but not flaky. Can put up points, AND beat up the other team's defense doing it.

If someone could bring that kind of thinking to the Bears we'd be looking good.  Talent wise, our QB, RBs and WRs match up with either of those teams.  We just need a better OL and a stud TE and I really believe we could be in their league given the right OC to put all the pieces together.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 14, 2012, 12:51:48 pm
So our genius braintrust hired Martz knowing full-well we absolutely didn't have the personnel to run his system and no plan to get those players either.

Well if I recall vividly we were a game from the Super Bowl a couple years ago with that "personnel" that you felt wasn't worthy of the great Guru.  So what other excuse you have?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 14, 2012, 01:42:43 pm
Two OCs that I think are doing really good work right now are the guys for the 49ers and the Giants.  Fundamentally sound but not boring. Creative but not flaky. Can put up points, AND beat up the other team's defense doing it.

If someone could bring that kind of thinking to the Bears we'd be looking good.  Talent wise, our QB, RBs and WRs match up with either of those teams.  We just need a better OL and a stud TE and I really believe we could be in their league given the right OC to put all the pieces together.

I think Lovie has to go before that kind of situation arises. A new HC likes to hire his own coaches. And nobody will come here to work for a lame duck coach if Lovie somehow remains to fill out the last year of his contract and I wouldnt give him an extention.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 17, 2012, 09:38:07 am
Here's how I see Emery approaching the roster this offseason:

QB
In - Cutler, McCown
Out - Campbell
Key Moves - Blanchard and McCown battle for the #2 spot

RB
In - Forte, Bush, Allen
Out - Nobody
Key Moves - None; Forte and Bush have been hurt most of the year and have had terrible blocking; Emery won't blow up this unit just yet.

TE
In - Rodriguez, Spaeth
Out - Kellen Davis
TBD - Kyle Adams
Key Moves - Emery WILL draft or sign a pass catching TE; E-Rod will stick due to his versatility, and Spaeth as the blocker/red zone threat. Adams gives us nothing E-Rod wouldn't if used correctly, so his only chance to stick may be on STs.

WR
In - Marshall, Jeffery, Joe Anderson
Out - Hester, Bennett, Knox
Key Moves - End of the line for 3 veterans due to durability + lack of production + too big of paychecks.  The Bennett move will surprise some people but he just can't stay on the field, his mojo with Cutler has disappeared and he's making way too much money for the production we've gotten.  Anderson will assume Bennett's role at a much lower price and will be a valuable ST add as well. Emery will replace Hester/Knox with a decent sized speed guy who actually knows how to play WR and is durable.  I expect him to find this guy either in a middle round of the draft or as a FA.

OL
In - Scott, Webb OR Carimi, Lance Louis, James Brown
Out - Garza, Spencer, Webb OR Carimi, Edwin Williams
Key Moves - Major churn coming to this unit with the roster finally being purged of most if not all of Angelo's remaining mistakes.  Emery will spend a minimum of two draft picks on O-Linemen and the Bears will pony up for one of the upper echelon OTs (please NOT Sam Baker or Jake Long).  The OL will be all-new from the center position leftward.  Louis will have first crack at regaining the RG spot but Angelo will have insurance in place. Scott, Webb and Carimi will compete for the RT spot with the 2nd guy being the swing backup and the one who comes up last (Carimi if I had to put money down today) getting cut.

DL
In - Wootton, Izzy, McClellin, Melton, Collins OR Okoye, Paea
Out - Toeiana, Collins OR Okoye
TBD - Peppers
Key Moves - may be the first Bears draft in forever that we don't draft a D-Lineman at all. Peppers presents a huge challenge for Emery due to his gigantic cap impact vis-a-vis questions about his long term health.  Letting him go (or keeping him at a drastically reduced salary) is an outside possibility with the emergence of Wootton this year. Collins or Okoye will depart as they are basically the same player, and Emery will look for a low-priced run stuffer to replace Toeiana. The wild card in this is if Emery moves the team to a 3-4 D at which point all bets are off.

LB
In - Briggs, Roach
Out - Hayes
TBD - Urlacher, Constanzo
Key Moves - All eyes will be on what Emery does with Urlacher and if a LB is picked in the draft.  Costanzo was brought in to be a ST stud but it hasn't happened; his future may depend on if Emery feels he has value as a backup LB or even a fringe starter.  Emery could take a three pronged approach here with a draft pick, a 2nd-tier FA and some UDFAs all introduced into the mix;  same disclaimers apply as to DL in the event we go to a 3-4

DB
In - Wright, Conte, Hardin, Tillman, Jennings
Out - Steltz, Moore, Hayden
TBD - Everyone else
Key Moves - Steltz has not earned his keep on STs this year and is a liability as a S.  He will be replaced in both capacities by the bigger, younger and much more athletic Hardin.  There really isn't room in the draft to fill the Moore and Hayden departures, but their play in relief of Tillman/Jennings and in nickel situations has been unacceptable... so 2nd-tier FAs will be the order of the day there.

STs
In - Gould, Mannelly, Bowman
Out - Podlesh
TBD - Weems and everyone else
Key Moves - Emery will look to get equal or better production than we're getting from Podlesh, at a lower price.  Bowman has been a coverage stud so he'll stick.  Weems has shown zero magic as a returner so his days may be numbered.  STs have been embarrasingly mediocre this year so look for a lot of churn at the bottom of the roster as Emery tries to get that unit back on track.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 17, 2012, 10:56:19 am
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4681228/urlacher-booing-bears-at-home-unbelievable

54 sounds like a guy who knows his coach is on the way out and isn't happy about it.

Which means that...  as tough as it is to say...  if Emery launches Lovie then his best course of action may be to cut ties with Urlacher as well.

Url and Lovie are joined at the hip and the last thing we need is Urlacher hanging around after Lovie is gone, griping in the clubhouse (and to the media) and making it hard on the next HC to install his program.  With the current status of Urlacher's skills his greatest benefit going forward is probably more as a coach to the younger LBs then actually being on the field... but if Emery takes the Bears away from the Tampa-2 then even those attributes are useless since that scheme is all that Urlacher knows.

The reality is that if this team doesn't do some miraculous things in the next few weeks, Emery is going to spend this offseason re-inventing the franchise and if/when that happens, the focal point will no longer be Urlacher and the D, but Cutler, Marshall and the O.  And ideally, with an offensive-minded HC as well.  So yeah it's understandable that Brian would be a little sour on the prospects of a regime change, but it still sets up a potentially bad situation if he stays and Lovie goes.  No doubt that dumping Urlacher would leave a big leadership void on the Bears... but strong leaders can also turn toxic if they decide they're not on board with the program any more.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 17, 2012, 01:18:47 pm
Really, Lovie?  Really?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/17/lovie-smith-packers-game-wasnt-must-win-but-this-week-is/

What happened to your prime objective of beating Green Bay?  I guess when you've got 25 or 30 mil stashed away for a nice retirement in sunny Texas it gets pretty hard to keep an edge on once the winds in Chicago turn cold.  But he and his flunky middle manager Urlacher sure aren't winning the hearts and minds of Chicago fans with what they've been putting out to the media so far this week.

It's exactly this lack of urgency and "I'm OK You're OK" attitude at the top that had Marshall close to a breakdown in his postgame presser yesterday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 17, 2012, 01:23:01 pm
I'm confused.  Do you really think players are going to bash their HC?  I know you don't like Lovie but players are going to support their HC just like the HC is going to support their players. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on December 17, 2012, 01:26:55 pm
Has any group of fans ever Booed their team to victory?

I know that cheering can really pump up the team sometimes - but doesn't booing have the opposite effect?

So the fans are making the team even worse...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 17, 2012, 01:28:35 pm
I heard boos going into the half and in the second half they were booing the bad calls and the bad offense.

What is there to cheer about with this inept offense?  Marshall was brought to tears because of the woeful offense.  I'm sure he would've booed them too if he were in the stands.  Hell he may demand a trade if he sees no hope.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 17, 2012, 01:30:54 pm
Some of the booing was also for the refs I'm sure.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 17, 2012, 01:36:26 pm
So Lovie is ok with losing to the Packers twice this year, and losing the division title, and dropping to third place in the division with only 2 games to go, because well his glass is half full durn it.  And he likes himself.  Oh brother, so time for a change.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 17, 2012, 02:46:44 pm
Oy.  National attention.  Gaaa. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/chicago-bears-must-fire-head-coach-lovie-smith-121612
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 17, 2012, 04:17:33 pm
Right now guys like Cutler and Marshall are showing that they "get it", while guys like Lovie and Urlacher are revealing that they don't -- and making the entire franchise look silly in the process.

If this schism of perspectives continues I have a pretty good idea where things are gonna wind up considering that Brandon Marshall is the only one in that bunch that Emery has any stake in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Fearless Freep on December 17, 2012, 10:18:02 pm
Oy.  National attention.  Gaaa. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/chicago-bears-must-fire-head-coach-lovie-smith-121612 (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/chicago-bears-must-fire-head-coach-lovie-smith-121612)
"But the Bears don’t draft and develop the way the Packers do. They patch and paint. And that doesn’t work well anymore, especially when the painters are incompetent assistants you have hired."

WOW, if Emery ever had a carte-blanche to to jettison all the old-regime .... I'd hire a Oregon-NFL-capable-clone and harken back to the Luckman-era and get a DOMINATE offensive machine. The Bears of the 30-40's were a offensive bulldozer ... no reason why they couldn't be one again. And when all you ursine-lovers easily dismiss HH's inclination to innovation, maybe, just maybe they will remember that GH WAS the coach for those offensive machines and the Bears could one be so again.

Yes, I'm against interest, so-to-speak, but what pleasure is there in beating the Lions?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 17, 2012, 10:32:52 pm
Lovie is completely clueless! This week wasn't important.....ok, THIS week wasn't important.....it's THIS week here that wasn't important.... C'mon, this is getting past absurd! Lovie needs to go. He has lost control, not that he even had it really. Marshall is clear, there's NO accountability. This is Lovie's doin. Urlacher likes Lovie because he doesnt' get fired up. Well, pal, this team needs someone to beat their proverbial A==SES and get them focused and understanding the season is nearly gone. EVERY game is important, this one especially was for a number of reasons. Lovie is SOOOO gone.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 17, 2012, 11:00:53 pm
Everyone gets frustrated when we lose and bashes the head coach and especially in Chicago the offensive coordinator.   Not defending Tice here as I was concerned about him coming into the season not having the experience to do the job, but a lot of the offensive woes come from overall lack of talent.

But look at our offensive lineup Sunday.  At LT you have a 7th round draft choice that is improving but probably C level talent wise, next to him is a rookie....undrafted FA James Brown, who has been on the PS most of the year.  You have a career guard playing center but who is at best serviceable.  At RG you have the first round draft choice who is looking like another in the long line of Chicago first round tackle busts, and the rock of the line is a journeyman at RT that was picked up off the street.

TE talent is easily among the worst in the NFL.

WR boasts a pro bowler but the touted rookie can't stay on the field but has showed flashes of promise when he's on the field.  The 3rd receiver can't stay healthy and hasn't been nearly as productive as expected.  After that the talent is not NFL caliber.

Forte will get 1000 yards this season and can do everything except pick up short yardage.  And the guy that can, has missed the last 2 games where his presence in the lineup could have made the difference in both games.

And then we have a QB who doesn't trust half his receivers and doesn't have the talent to carry the team on his shoulders.

Add it all up and you have the 29th ranked offense in the league.   It is what it is - not much talent and an offensive coordinator appears handcuffed either by that lack of talent or by his lack of experience.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 17, 2012, 11:06:19 pm

Bears are not out of it just yet.  Of course they have to take care of business against Detroit and Arizona AND they need the Ravens to beat the Giants this week in Baltimore.  Also need the Texans to beat the Vikes in Houston. 

I think Washington wins out and take the East and the Cowboys had the misfortune of playing the Bears when they were nearly at full strength.

Bears defense would benefit from getting back Melton, Jennings and Urlacher.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 18, 2012, 12:13:17 am
Bears are out of it....about three, four games ago, exactly. Yea, they're toast. I think they may even phone the next two in.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 18, 2012, 12:35:22 am
Right now guys like Cutler and Marshall are showing that they "get it", while guys like Lovie and Urlacher are revealing that they don't -- and making the entire franchise look silly in the process.

Cutler gets what?  How to make bone head plays and turnovers in big games? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 18, 2012, 12:44:58 am
Agreed that Cut and Marshall 'get it'. One is holding his end of the bargain up, the other definately needs some work on his game. Cannot throw int's to wide open defenders. That was such a ridiculous int. Personally, I don't want to see the Bears get in. It would be akin to a pinto lining up with funny cars in a drag race. It's gonna look ridiculous trying to compete....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 18, 2012, 01:20:00 am
NFL Hot Seat Update: Ranking the Head Coaches Currently Under Fire After Week 15

RYAN RIDDLE
DECEMBER 17, 2012


Lovie Smith: Warm
Last Week: Room Temperature

The first half of the season for the Bears almost certainly had Lovie Smith thinking contract extension and pay raise after a 7-1 record. But then the injuries and questionable coaching became the norm in the Windy City as they lost five of their last six games.

It would be a major shock for the Bears to part ways with Smith after all he's done in Chicago, including three playoff appearances and a Super Bowl berth.

First-year GM Phil Emery will have a difficult decision to make regarding Smith if the Bears fail to make the playoffs after such a strong start.

One thing is for sure: Should Coach Smith happen to be fired, he will certainly land on his feet with another head coaching opportunity. But if Emery and the Bears are smart, they'll realize replacing Smith may not offer up a true upgrade at the position.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 18, 2012, 01:39:11 am
Uh, yea, it'll be a upgrade....gimme Gruden....and a new offensive line.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 18, 2012, 08:16:37 am
Not so sure about Lovie just walking into another HC job.

Being dominated by your division archrival for 3 years running and only making a posteseason appearance once the past 5 (possibly 6) years aren't exactly glowing credentials.  I know they would be red flags to me if I were an NFL GM.

He'll probably be able to write his own ticket as a DC though.  Or there are probably some colleges out there that would take him as a HC especially if he wants to live down in Texas full time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 18, 2012, 08:18:01 am
Sporty do you actually believe the Bears will pay Lovie his money for next season then pay Gruden the same amount to coach the team? I dont. And besides, the Bears since the days of Halas have never paid for a new HC who was a HC previously. They have always hired coordinators. A prime candidate who likely would be on the Bears coaching search would be the GB offensive coordinator, the ex-Notre Damer.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 18, 2012, 08:25:44 am
Everyone gets frustrated when we lose and bashes the head coach

But its not just one game we've lost its been 5 of 6. Everybody has a right to blame the HC for that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 18, 2012, 08:27:47 am
If you're talking about Tom Clements...  yeah, I'd be all for that.  Can't argue the success he's had as the Packers OC although there are always things your ris-king when you bring on a guy who's never had all the duties of an NFL HC before.

That being said, just having access to what he knows about the Packers O would go a long way to helping us "reverse the curse" against them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 18, 2012, 08:35:16 am
Thats the guy. Clements will be high on our list. We tried to hire him to be OC last year but we were denied permission to talk to him because it wasnt an upgrade in position since he was already an OC. But if we had a HC opening then he'd be a prime candidate if he aspires to be a HC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 18, 2012, 08:36:54 am
That would definitely take the Packers/Bears matchups to a new level.

We've drafted guys just to keep them away from the Packers before, so why not steal one of their coaches.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 18, 2012, 08:40:49 am
Hey all is fair in love and war.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 18, 2012, 09:28:30 am
If you're talking about Tom Clements...  yeah, I'd be all for that.  Can't argue the success he's had as the Packers OC although there are always things your ris-king when you bring on a guy who's never had all the duties of an NFL HC before.

Not only are you risking bringing on a guy who's never had all the duties of an NFL HC but the guy doesn't even have all the duties of an OC - doesn't McCarthy call all the plays?  What exactly then does Clements do?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 18, 2012, 09:54:33 am
If you're talking about Tom Clements...  yeah, I'd be all for that.  Can't argue the success he's had as the Packers OC although there are always things your ris-king when you bring on a guy who's never had all the duties of an NFL HC before.

Not only are you risking bringing on a guy who's never had all the duties of an NFL HC but the guy doesn't even have all the duties of an OC - doesn't McCarthy call all the plays?  What exactly then does Clements do?

Exactly.  He may not call the plays, I am pretty sure Aaron Rodgers is already developed, what does he do?  And can he do it here?  Just like saying Marinelli would be able to run Lovies D somewhere else.  Heck, he cant even run it here....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 18, 2012, 10:13:02 am
You gotta start wondering.... especially after that  wtf int.  I know I do anymore.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-rosenbloom-cutler-chicago-bears-20121218,0,1691106.column
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 18, 2012, 11:12:00 am
Since yapper has so much faith in Emery getting our new HC that'll make a big splash for this franchise if he fires Lovie here's the rumored choice to replace him.....


http://bleacherreport.com/tb/d9atC?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=chicago-bears
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 18, 2012, 11:28:07 am
You gotta start wondering.... especially after that  wtf int.  I know I do anymore.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-rosenbloom-cutler-chicago-bears-20121218,0,1691106.column

Can't read the article but the headlines says it all.  The man has been here for 4 years and in the big games he has failed more than he succeeded.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on December 18, 2012, 11:28:42 am
Josh McDaniels.  Riiiiiiiight....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 18, 2012, 11:29:25 am
Since yapper has so much faith in getting our new HC if Lovie is fired here's the rumored choice to replace him.....


http://bleacherreport.com/tb/d9atC?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=chicago-bears

I agree it would be a bad move. And Josh McDaniels was run out of Denver as Head Coach. Do you get that? FORMER head coach. The Bears have never hired a former head coach at least not one I am aware of. Now maybe its time to do so which I would agree that its time to break with the past. But the problem with that is more than Cutler and Marshall, its that they will have to pay 2 head coaches and former head coaches usually demand head coach money and the Bears already have to pay Lovie. Thus I feel that kinda puts a dim light on McDaniels.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 18, 2012, 11:33:32 am
And for the record I am not saying that the Bears would hire Clements, I said he would be high on their list
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 18, 2012, 11:50:43 am
NFL Hot Seat Update: Ranking the Head Coaches Currently Under Fire After Week 15

RYAN RIDDLE
DECEMBER 17, 2012


Lovie Smith: Warm
Last Week: Room Temperature

The first half of the season for the Bears almost certainly had Lovie Smith thinking contract extension and pay raise after a 7-1 record. But then the injuries and questionable coaching became the norm in the Windy City as they lost five of their last six games.

It would be a major shock for the Bears to part ways with Smith after all he's done in Chicago, including three playoff appearances and a Super Bowl berth.

First-year GM Phil Emery will have a difficult decision to make regarding Smith if the Bears fail to make the playoffs after such a strong start.

One thing is for sure: Should Coach Smith happen to be fired, he will certainly land on his feet with another head coaching opportunity. But if Emery and the Bears are smart, they'll realize replacing Smith may not offer up a true upgrade at the position.



We've made the playoffs once since '06. Wonder how much Lovie paid that doofus to write that..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 18, 2012, 11:54:02 am
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1447213-chicago-bears-8-offensively-minded-coaching-replacements-for-lovie-smith

Josh McDaniels is nowhere on this list.  Emery is smarter than that.  Whoever wrote that other article was just trying to drum up some clicks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 18, 2012, 11:56:01 am
McDaniels? LOLOL!!!! Fukking Emery would be run out of town in a second..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 18, 2012, 12:03:36 pm
Funny thing, at the start of the season, some of us (myself included) thought the Offense was going to carry this team. The D started out looking like world beaters, but they have since dropped off to nothing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 18, 2012, 12:23:35 pm
Yeah, me too.  What OL problems?  Ah well....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 18, 2012, 12:30:12 pm
The good ole' cut and paste:

 When do we start blaming Cutler?
Bears quarterback Jay Cutler argues with an official during the second half against the Packers at Soldier Field on Sunday. (Chris Sweda/Tribune Photo / December 18, 2012)
 

Steve Rosenbloom
 
The RosenBlog
 
9:58 a.m. CST, December 18, 2012
Here’s the thing about Jay Cutler’s throw that was sort of aimed at Devin Hester during yet another miserable Cutler performance in yet another aggravating loss to the Packers:

It was so bad and such a turning point that even Lovie Smith, long the protector of players no matter how many fairy tales it took to spin, seemed to blame the quarterback for making a  throw he absolutely couldn’t afford to make.

Cutler’s customary Green Bay gag reflex became the biggest play in the Bears’ sixth straight loss to the Packers. It was a play that can’t happen. It is a play that always happens when Cutler plays the Packers. The Packers have said that Cutler will throw them the ball and he did because he always does.
   And so, there is a real  question whether Cutler ever will be an elite quarterback. A Super Bowl quarterback. Being the best quarterback in Bears history doesn’t mean you’re an elite quarterback, it means the gene pool has been a joke.

Cutler has to be considered a good quarterback right now. That’s my designation. Your mileage may vary. I’m basing this on his physical skills. But is this as good as he gets?

Because those skills and the full measure of Cutler's emotional, mental and physical game at the most important position on the field seem to go right into the toilet not only against the Packers but against most of the better teams.

This a particularly acute development this season, as the Bears first failed against the best opponents and then couldn’t beat the bad ones, either, as the offense averaged 14.2 points a game in the last six weeks, five of which are losses.

We always want to know why, and we almost never blame Cutler. I'm starting to feel like a coddling parent. You name it, and Cutler has gotten the benefit of the excuses since he got here.

The offensive line, for instance, always seems to be in chaos. But look, Aaron Rodgers has been sacked more than Cutler this season, and Rodgers was so much the better quarterback on the field Sunday that Cutler might as well have been Josh McCown.

The fake wide receivers and musical offensive coordinators also get some play in defense of Cutler, and I’ve been one of those defenders.

But eventually, people will notice that the one common variable is Cutler.

I mean, just look at last offseason, also known as Cutler’s Extended Christmas: He got Mike Martz launched, he got a flexible offensive coordinator in Mike Tice, he got his own quarterback wrangler in Jeremy Bates, and he got BFF wideout Brandon Marshall.

And he has produced the worst offense of his Bears career --- worse than the offense for which Kyle Orton was the designated driver --- and one of the worst offenses in the league.

Cutler is throwing to a receiver who already has set a franchise record for catches, and yet, Cutler’s passing game is nearly as embarrassing as the aerial attack quarterbacked by the immortal Ryan Lindley for this week’s opponent Arizona.

But wait. There’s more embarrassment. Cutler’s passing offense ranks below Blaine Gabbert’s.

I wish I was making that up. The Bears wish I was making that up.

The Bears are collapsing the way they did last season, but Cutler was injured to set off that fall from the playoffs. Cutler is playing this season. So are Marshall and Matt Forte, two other players who weren’t here during last season’s plummet, which means this season’s death spiral is all about execution, starting with a quarterback looking for, what, a $30 million or $40 million payday.

Make that a much-concussed quarterback looking for, what, a $30 million or $40 million payday.

That expensive gamble has to make Bears wonks choke at Halas Hall the way Cutler and his offense have on the field.

This has nothing to do with his Cutler’s pouty faces or animated hissyfits. This has everything to do with results. You are allowed to be considered a pretty, shiny thing for only so long, and here’s why: Quarterbacks have to win. Period. Paragraph. It’s an unforgiving deal.

What’s more, you don’t get Jacksonville and Tennessee in the playoffs. You get Green Bay and San Francisco and Houston. You have to beat good teams and even great teams to be a last team standing. That starts with the quarterback. Unfortunately for the Bears, many times it ends right there, too.

I’m starting to understand why people in Denver laughed at me and a lot of us who were thrilled when Cutler came to town.

Copyright © 2012 Chicago Tribune Company, LLC
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 18, 2012, 01:11:29 pm
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1447213-chicago-bears-8-offensively-minded-coaching-replacements-for-lovie-smith

Josh McDaniels is nowhere on this list.  Emery is smarter than that.  Whoever wrote that other article was just trying to drum up some clicks.

McDaniels isn't on the list?  Who's list did you just post?  Emery's?  That link was by an analyst who's simply giving his opinion.  He doesn't know for sure what direction Emery is going no more than you and I.  So you say Emery is smarter than that?  We'll see this off season.  You have this blind faith in the guy where I have the wait and see approach.  You said he's definitely going to address the OL?  We'll see. 

For the record if McDaniels IS the man then I can see changes are coming down the road and that may include QB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 18, 2012, 01:19:00 pm
I can realistically see some of those names on that list as Bears HC talent. Also of note that the article kinda put the cabosh on the hiring of an experienced HC candidate which I have been saying isnt likely going to happen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 18, 2012, 01:25:32 pm
46:

Thanks for posting that article.  That article is simply TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!!!

I see guys here making excuses for Cutler instead of doing as Marshall said in holding players on offense accountable.  I like Jay and hope he does well but he's been here 4 years and he makes crucial mistakes in the big games the majority of the time. 

I agree about the OC being a problem as well as the line protecting him but when he does get protection he throws into double/triple coverage, holds the ball too long, or just throw an INT.  He's been in the league much too long to continue making these mistakes.

And the excuse about having to learn a new offense every year by a new OC doesn't fly with me.  He's making what, around 10 mil a year?  Deal with it!  He's going to get a new one unless he's dealt where GUESS WHAT?  He'll be learning a new offense!!!  So Jay needs to get himself together and really work on his game this offseason.  I don't want him dealt but the crucial INT's in the big games has to stop.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 18, 2012, 01:47:10 pm
46:

Thanks for posting that article.  That article is simply TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!!!

I see guys here making excuses for Cutler instead of doing as Marshall said in holding players on offense accountable.  I like Jay and hope he does well but he's been here 4 years and he makes crucial mistakes in the big games the majority of the time. 

I agree about the OC being a problem as well as the line protecting him but when he does get protection he throws into double/triple coverage, holds the ball too long, or just throw an INT.  He's been in the league much too long to continue making these mistakes.

And the excuse about having to learn a new offense every year by a new OC doesn't fly with me.  He's making what, around 10 mil a year?  Deal with it!  He's going to get a new one unless he's dealt where GUESS WHAT?  He'll be learning a new offense!!!  So Jay needs to get himself together and really work on his game this offseason.  I don't want him dealt but the crucial INT's in the big games has to stop.

Aren't you the least bit interested in how Cutler would do with the kind of protection Brady or either Manning gets or with the quality of receivers that Rodgers has. I sure am.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 18, 2012, 02:15:32 pm
Yapp, that was good, solid list. I hope we do make a change and that someone on that list-preferably near the top of it-gets the call.

As for articles from the Trib, please when you see one, do as 46 did and cut and paste it here, don't link to it. That silly limitation on reading it there applies. So if someone sees a interesting article there, cut and paste it here and if you can't, link the article headlines and maybe someone with a couple 'limits' left can go and cut and paste it here. Thanks!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 18, 2012, 02:21:17 pm
The 'now you're here, now you're gone, now you're here again' nonsense with this team is going again.....Kahlil Bell is reportedly coming back....again....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 18, 2012, 02:29:48 pm
Because Bush is going on IR. Better to bring back somebody that knows the system...even if it is a crappy system
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 18, 2012, 03:20:08 pm
I don't think Cutler is the problem with our O at all.
Our OL is the biggest problem.
Our crappy WR are another problem.
We have seen how bad our O is with guys like McCown, Cambell and Caleb Hanie, Huge difference.
The only thing we have to worry about with Cutler is how to protect him and how to pay him.
We have much bigger issues to worry about, I doubt we ever have another QB as good as Cutler.
Cutler could get the ball out quicker but I think that is as much on the WR as Cutler, they drop so many passes and tip them to the other teams he has lost confidence in them.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 18, 2012, 03:55:53 pm
One problem with our offense Sunday, and there are many, is that we didn't have the ability to pick up 3rd downs.    And as I recall the Bears were something like 0 for 10...plus 0 for 1 on fourth down too.

Marshall is the first choice but if he's double covered where do we go?

We can't throw to the TEs because Cutler doesn't trust them.  Alshon Jeffery is a good option but that didn't work out too well Sunday.   Our slot receiver maybe?  He's still suffering from concussion issues and the guy that replaced him is now in the Cutler doghouse.  That leaves Forte who the Bears have some success when they get him out there in space.

Bears had 3 receivers catch balls.  Marshall and Forte caught all but one...Allen caught a screen pass.   Packers had about half a dozen or so different receivers catch balls.

And some of that is Cutler's fault...let's pick up the 3rd down instead of always trying to make the play 20 yards down field.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 18, 2012, 04:04:36 pm
I remember us sending Forte downfield once on Sunday.  He beat his man but the pass wasn't quite on target.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 18, 2012, 04:14:17 pm
Yeah, Packers screwed up and put a LB on him and Cutler missed him.  After that when Forte split out he got a DB on him.

But Bears are finally starting to us Forte as a receiver.  He had 5 catches and more yards (64 vs 56) than Marshall.

But they need to hit him while he's moving - too many times he just runs a pattern and turns around and stands there while the defender just stands behind him waiting to drill him.   

Let Forte chip the DE and run out in the flat at least when he catches the ball he is looking forward and has a chance to get by the defender.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 18, 2012, 05:48:59 pm
I'm not entirely going to judge Cut on what he's done yet. Give him a quality Oline in front of him, a capable TE and another good wideout, THEN let's see what he brings to the table. He hit Jeffrey three good times but Jeffrey messed it up and bad calls didn't help. But there was a TD and a couple nice deeper sideline passes. The Hester deal....PLEASE stop using him as a wideout for cryin out loud! He IS NOT A WIDEOUT!!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 18, 2012, 07:07:03 pm
Cutler is the best QB we've had in quite awhile. Although, this is the Bears we're talking about. That's kinda like being the tallest midget... Don't get me wrong, I'm not ready to give up on him, not yet..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 18, 2012, 07:45:20 pm
Is Cutler perfect, nope far from it.

However, all one needs to look at is Jason Campbell's performance with this offense to see what kind of player Jay Cutler is....special.

I would also point to last season before he got hurt, the line had like 2 decent games, I was thinking we might just go to Superbowl.  Cutler gets hurt we don't even make the playoffs.

Problem with this season is our Oline is the worst in NFL due to injuries and poor performance.  Forte and Bush are both hurt and Marshall was the only legit WR threat most of the season.

Oh yeah nothing special at tight end.  I guarantee if a lesser QB were in, we would lose by 20+ points every game.

Can we do better at QB, sure but no one is going to give that type of player up.  How bout draft?  Nope nothing special at QB in draft this year IMO.

We need to focus on the OLINE!!! Then we can evaluate what we truly have in Cutler.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 18, 2012, 09:36:01 pm
This is a terrible draft class for QBs and FA won't be much better. I feel bad for teams that don't have that position locked down cause it's slim pickins this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 19, 2012, 12:23:33 am
Aren't you the least bit interested in how Cutler would do with the kind of protection Brady or either Manning gets or with the quality of receivers that Rodgers has. I sure am.

Don't know where you're going with that question.  Hell I want all of that whether it's Campbell, McCown, Haney, or anybody at QB.  But since you mentioned Rodgers his oline sucked too Sunday but guess what?   He didn't make a bone head throw for an INT that killed his team like Cutler did last Sunday.  As I've stated Cutler has made some costly INT's in big games as well as bad decisions.   He's been here for 4 years now and can you honestly say he's gotten better?

Not once have I said to get rid of him. I hope he stays.   All I'm saying is I agree with Marshall that EVERYONE on offense needs to be held accountable and that includes our starting QB.  To me he's proven not to be a championship caliber QB.  Folks here always make excuses for him but if that was for instance Campbell, Haney, or McCown at QB and he made that God awful throw for an INT last Sunday you and the others would crucify them.  But it's Cutler and all of a sudden "he needs better receivers" or whatever excuse.  Same could be said for any QB that has played for the Bears the last few years but Cutler gets a pass. 

Oh well this season is about done and we'll see what Emery has up his sleeve. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 19, 2012, 01:17:32 am
I seriously wonder whether Bates is more a friend of Cut's or a coach. Personally I get this feeling he's more of a friend, which isn't what Cut needs. He needs someone more like a Billick who will tell him like it is and demand he show some improvement. He is not beyond coaching,no he isn't. If he THINKS he is, we got a big big problem folks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 19, 2012, 06:56:51 am
"Oh yeah nothing special at tight end."

I think you are being VERY generous here.  Must be the Christmas spirit.  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 19, 2012, 07:23:22 am
Well said:

I think I went over the simple rules about coaching respect in a recent column. To wit: We love you when you win, we hate you when you lose.
 
The end.
 

So with the Bears having lost five of their last six games and scrambling to make the once-assured playoffs, coach Lovie Smith isn’t much-loved. That’s an axiom.
 
But what, besides the losses, is it that is soiling Smith’s legacy in this town? Besides the losses, what is it about him that infuriates us the most (and this one time we won’t count the drained-of-all-plasma sideline stare)?
 
It is this: Smith doesn’t know offense.
 
He might know defense. Well, at least he might know his punch-and-rip-at-the-ball, attacking cover-2 defense, essentially the same one he used more than a decade ago as the St. Louis Rams’ defensive coordinator.


But offense?
 
Smith doesn’t call the plays. He has had three offensive coordinators — Ron Turner, Mike Martz and Mike Tice — in the last four seasons. He has had four quarterbacks coaches since 2006. He recently has had good offensive players brought in or re-signed — quarterback Jay Cutler, receiver Brandon Marshall and running back Matt Forte — but the offense only has become worse.
 
Facts: In his nine seasons at the helm, Smith has had offenses that ranked 32nd, 29th, 15th, 27th, 26th, 23rd, 30th, 24th and, currently, 29th in total yards in a 32-team league.
 
That comes to an average of 26th. That would be an F on any report card. When sustained for nearly a decade, it would be grounds to have a student flunked from school and steered into something such as ditch-digging.
 
Oh, did you notice that No. 15 ranking in Smith’s third season, 2006? Did that — gasp! — almost make you sit down and ask for oxygen? Well, that was the Super Bowl season, a season that earned Smith the rest of these years.
 
In 2006, Rex Grossman passed for more than 3,000 yards, Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson ran for a combined 1,857 yards and 12 touchdowns and Muhsin Muhammad, Bernard Berrian and Desmond Clark caught passes for 2,264 yards and 17 touchdowns.

How it happened, we don’t know. But it hasn’t been repeated. And as the trend in the NFL continues toward high-octane offenses led by star quarterbacks such as Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers, the Bears have devolved into an offensive machine more resembling a Model-T — or, perhaps more distinctly, a ‘‘funny car’’ that can’t make it halfway up the track before flailing across the lanes, over the fence and into a cornfield.
 
The Bears’ loss Sunday to the Green Bay Packers was one of the saddest displays of the offense’s ineptitude so far. The offensive line isn’t very good — we know that — but you might have thought the blockers were on loan from a doughnut shop for all the movement they created and protection they provided. Yet Cutler spent most of his time making faces of disgust toward any and all, as though he was surprised by their lack of skill. In Game 14!
 
Then there were the wrong routes run by receivers, the bad passes by Cutler (even his snidest scowls couldn’t hide some of his mistakes), only 12 first downs and 190 net yards. This was against a banged-up Packers team playing on a hostile field.
 
Through it all, Smith stared.
 
No matter, though, because what’s missing isn’t hellfire and brimstone but an intuitive knowledge about how a complex pro offense works and an understanding about how to make it work in tough conditions.
 
There always is a trickle-down effect from the coach. Many coaches are offensive experts, and they need to pay a lot of attention to their teams’ defense or have a masterful coordinator taking that task away from them.

Smith can’t pretend to care deeply about that which he does not. The Bears and offense just don’t seem to go together. Maybe it’s history. Maybe it’s heritage.
 
What the Bears have shown during Smith’s tenure is that they can beat average and below-average teams consistently. But when they need three-touchdown quarters, 400-yard passing games, one-minute drills or swift attacks that overwhelm, they’re just not there.
 
And under Smith, they never will be
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 19, 2012, 07:42:46 am
Excellent points made there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 19, 2012, 07:46:29 am
What the Bears have shown during Smith’s tenure is that they can beat average and below-average teams consistently.

That's about it..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 19, 2012, 07:46:41 am
Those offense rankings pretty much tell the whole story.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 08:02:05 am
Yes they are definitely offensive.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 09:13:09 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/19/briggs-sides-with-urlacher-no-one-boos-more-than-bears-fans/

Briggs is one of my favorite Bears but on this point he's full of it.  He obviously hasn't played enough games in Philly.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 19, 2012, 10:10:58 am
Philly fans are never satisfied with losing. Its the same in baseball too. Recently two Bulls fans were killed in Philly after a Bulls game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on December 19, 2012, 10:12:10 am
It's this ENTITLEMENT generation of fans...

It is still a GAME
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 19, 2012, 10:18:51 am
Its been that way even when my uncle was a Philly fan and that seems like a century ago
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 19, 2012, 10:48:40 am

Got to be  hard on a guy like Briggs who is giving EVERYTHING he has out there to listen to the boos...but I really don't know how much they really care.


A win in Arizona stop all this attention on this fan booing nonsense...until the next game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 19, 2012, 11:01:51 am
Briggs and Urlacher are buds, Briggs is just trying to take some heat off of Urlacher. I personally don't care much for the booing, but it is what it is. Would they rather the fans hail them with stones?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 11:05:11 am
Well the Bears are done playing in Soldier Field this year so it's good to know our players won't have to get their feelings hurt anymore.

Maybe they'd rather the fans just sat in the stands texting and tweeting on their iPhones all game and not even paying attention like some team's "fans" do?  At least Bears fans are invested in the outcome.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 19, 2012, 11:07:28 am
I think what gets forgotten all the time, this game isn't played for the players. Like it or not, without the fans, they have nothing...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 11:14:44 am
Interesting...

ESPN Bears Blog just posted a Brian Urlacher photo gallery.  That's something that usually happens when a player is near (or at) the end of his career or at least his time with the team in question.

Combine that with the fact that Urlacher is being unusually non discreet in his recent comments regarding the fans, and you have to wonder if the decision has already been made that he's not in the Bears' plans after this year.

If this is indeed the end for #54 then I hope he's not one of those guys who 30 years from now is gonna be a Gale Sayers, Jim Brown or Fran Tarkenton...  guys who have become such bitter old jacka$$es after they leave the game that people discount how good they actually were as players. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on December 19, 2012, 12:48:52 pm
Or like Singletary...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 12:55:15 pm
Got to admit, I'm a little worried about Singletary 10 or 15 years down the road too.

Not so much that he'll turn into an azzhole but more just his ability to think and function normally.  With all that's coming out about concussions now and knowing the way he played...  he already started showing some signs of kookiness when he was the Niners HC... 

Heck we're talking about a guy who broke his own helmet in college from hitting a guy so hard.  Pretty likely if he were playing under today's standards he would have been held out a least a few games for concussions throughout his career.

Walter Payton could very likely have been headed down the same path if he had lived a few more years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 02:33:35 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/19/marshall-sorry-for-calling-for-accountability-sees-it-from-his-teammates/

Kinda sorry to see Marshall backpedaling.  His original comments were 100% on point, appropriately targeted (without naming names), articulately stated and well-timed (if anything, overdue).  Straight talk (which fans have gotten very little of during the Lovie regime), from a guy who's frustrated at watching what was a promising season go down the toilet despite busting his own azz every game.

This reeks of a Lovie hand-slap.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 19, 2012, 03:15:46 pm
Oh this is totally a Lovie "go and appologize" move.  Just another reason the wooden indian needs to go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 03:36:55 pm
I really hope Marshall takes Jeffery under his wing this offseason. The Bears WRs coach is worthless and knowing that, I am disappointed (but not surprised) to see that Jeffery has appeared to regress as the season has gone on.  If we can get Drake out of the picture this offseason and let Marshall show him how a pro WR does things, he could really make some strides his 2nd year...  assuming he can stay healthy of course.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on December 19, 2012, 03:40:21 pm
Remember when Griese led the bears a few years back to a last minute win in Philadelphia. He had called his own plays because his headset was cutting out. After the game he said how it may have been fortunate that he couldn't hear Ron Turner's play calls, and Lovie made him apologize a couple days later.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 19, 2012, 03:54:59 pm

Cutler could sabotage his headset but playcalling is only part of the problem.  Nothing wrong with those play calls Sunday - not very creative especially near the goal line, but the execution was the issue.  No push by the O-line, Forte's limited vision and Jeffery's first PI penalty. 

No matter what pass play is called Cutler has to look to Jeffery in the offense more as well as Bennett this  week too.   And I know I'll get flack but let's call a few plays for Davis.   As for Hester...maybe a deep one when he runs down the sideline - but not in the middle of the field.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 03:59:57 pm
Isn't Cutler supposed to be able to change the plays at the line?  That adds a whole nother wrinkle to the playcalling thing and makes a lot harder to assign blame. 

Agreed that irrespective of playcalling, execution by the O has been pretty much consistently awful since the Seattle game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 19, 2012, 04:13:38 pm
I really hope Marshall takes Jeffery under his wing this offseason. The Bears WRs coach is worthless and knowing that, I am disappointed (but not surprised) to see that Jeffery has appeared to regress as the season has gone on.  If we can get Drake out of the picture this offseason and let Marshall show him how a pro WR does things, he could really make some strides his 2nd year...  assuming he can stay healthy of course.

Agreed, and I hope whoever the next WR coach is actually knows how to coach and what the heck is going on. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 19, 2012, 04:22:37 pm

I don't know which numbnuts in the Trib was criticizing Jeffery for not having enough speed/quickness to get open without resorting to using his arms to push off.  I'll admit that Jeffery is not super quick like many of the smaller receivers in the league, (neither is Marshall), but Jeffery has pretty good speed and his height and arm length give him an advantage on most DBs.

He's just got to learn not to extend the arm fully out down the field - stuff that should have been learned in training camp.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 04:28:46 pm
Jeffery is a big, physical, strong-handed WR. Brandon Marshall with a little less height and a bit more speed. Exactly the kind of WR the Bears have lacked for years.  He just needs refinement in the ways of discreetly getting open (i.e., pushing off without getting flagged), along with some work on route running and I believe that development will come through 1) offseason mentoring from Marshall; 2) better coaching; and 3) reps (which have been deprived of Jeffery this year in part due to his injuries but because of the coaches' insistence on forcing reps to Hester that should have been his).

If Alshon Jeffery can lick this pattern of nagging injuries that plagued him this year, I still think he will be the best Bears player to come out of Emery's 1st draft and possibly, the most productive WR to come out of that draft class.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 19, 2012, 04:43:42 pm
With our luck...I am predicting Marshall blows a knee in one of these last 2 games.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 04:54:46 pm
With our luck...I am predicting Marshall blows a knee in one of these last 2 games.

I've been having the same thoughts. 

If we were still in the hunt when it happened, I guess it is what it is.  You got to ride your horses as long as there's a chance.  But if we had been eliminated in Arizona and it happened the next week in Detroit (in a game he or any other of our stars had no reason to be playing), I'd be livid.  It would be the Urlacher thing all over again, except this time affecting a player even more valuable.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 19, 2012, 04:56:13 pm
I'm surprised it already hasn't happened.   I'd say about half the time Cutler's throws to Marshall are about 3 feet over is head leaving him open for any kind of injury.

The after Marshall catches the ball he has to look around and decide if he has to backtrack or make a move or fight through a tackle - how about hitting the guy in stride!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 04:58:22 pm
There was a game a few weeks back where Marshall went up for a catch, came down on the sideline and got up grabbing his shoulder or chest.  I about sh*t myself when I saw that happen. Thankfully, it was apparently nothing real serious though as I recall he sat out a series or two after that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 05:04:43 pm
The after Marshall catches the ball he has to look around and decide if he has to backtrack or make a move or fight through a tackle - how about hitting the guy in stride!

I've noticed Marshall doing that a lot.  That could be Cutler not delivering the ball in the right spot.  But it could also be poorly designed plays that aren't clearing those extra defenders out of the way, and/or a lack of other viable receiving options in the pattern that would draw some of that coverage off.  You look at a team like the Patriots or the Packers and more often then not the guy who winds up catching the ball has a good couple of steps if not a lot more on his man. There haven't been many completions like that for the Bears this year and especially against the tougher defenses we have been facing the second half of the season. 

Marshall definitely draws a crowd and until and unless we have plays and complimentary players that can change that it's gonna be the norm I'm afraid.  Cutler and Marshall seem OK with it and have made some pretty miraculous things happen this year all things considered... but it's definitely not the model of efficiency for an aerial attack.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 19, 2012, 05:12:37 pm
When there are two or three defenders on Marshall every play he does not have a lot of room after the catch no matter where it is placed. Plus I think Marshall likes them thrown high.  I saw him telling Jay to get them up on one he pass he didn't catch.  It allows him to go get the ball and does not allow the defenders as much chance to knock it away.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 05:15:17 pm
Yeah...  the thing about going high is it exposes you to rib shots but Marshall is 230 lbs so he can take some punishment.

On top of which, anymore, a rib shot to a WR is almost certain to draw an extra 15 yards on some sort of "defenseless receiver" flag so that may be a price Marshall is willing to pay on an offense where it seems we literally can't buy a yard sometimes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 19, 2012, 05:23:23 pm
I expect Cutler has a couple of options when he gets to the line, but likely not a free for all ala Peyton Manning.
He can audible out of a blitz or to a hot read but I'm guessing he can't do his own thing.

I think the talent level is more of an issue than the playcalling.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 19, 2012, 05:24:00 pm
I think it is better a lot of times to get hit while you are in the air vs having your cleats cemented in the grass.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 19, 2012, 05:27:17 pm

The problem with catching a high ball in the air with your back to the defense is you have no idea where the defender is.  Sure he could hit you when you're in the air or he could hit you right when you land.  At least when you have the ball in stride you can protect yourself if a guy is on you.  I just don't think Cutler has to throw that ball so high so often, but as Pekin said maybe its by design.

And when was the last time we saw a quick slant by OUR offense.  The other guys do it all the time and pick up nice yardage. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 05:58:41 pm
Cutler tends to sail balls especially early in the game. Very much like Favre was in that way, a contributing factor to our O getting off to slow starts and a big reason he throws a lot of his INTs relatively early in the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 19, 2012, 06:47:34 pm
Basically, the Bear have been playing without a TE. This has been one of the areas that's really hurt them in production.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 19, 2012, 07:56:45 pm
 Was Shea McClellin brought in to replace Urlacher at MLB ?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 19, 2012, 08:31:58 pm
No McClellin was drafted so the Packers wouldnt get him.

He may turn out to be a decent DE for us... but he would have been devastating in the Packers 3-4 opposite Matthews.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 19, 2012, 08:52:04 pm
No McClellin was drafted so the Packers wouldnt get him.

He may turn out to be a decent DE for us... but he would have been devastating in the Packers 3-4 opposite Matthews.

 Oh.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 20, 2012, 12:09:27 am
Just did the playoff scenario machine on ESPN and Bears need lots of help. In the scenario I did, where the Bears win both games upcoming (HA!...), they were still on the outside looking in. They really screwed themselves through these last few games......Seattle is a real problem. Change losing to them to winning and we're in. But the way they're playing, I don't even care anymore. I really don't. It's like the Special Olympics vs the real deal. They need some radical change in this offseason....radical.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on December 20, 2012, 06:08:15 am
I know there is some criticism of Jeffrey for this last game, but how many of those were truly PI?  It seems like more established receivers get the benefit...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 20, 2012, 07:56:18 am
The whole Jeffery thing last week was a bad combination of some biased refs to begin with, picking on a rookie besides.

If Jeffery gets good mentoring from Marshall and some real coaching from our new staff, he has the ability to be a Pro Bowler in 3-4 years and he'll be getting a lot more love from the stripes then.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 20, 2012, 08:46:26 am
Pretty sure the Ref crew last week was bussed in from WI.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 20, 2012, 09:10:33 am
Nearest I can put together, the minimum that needs to happen is for us to win out and the Vikings and Giants to each lose one of their remaining two.

The Vikings play at Houston Sunday and finish with a home game against the Pack (and Adrian Peterson potentially going for an all-time record). 

The Giants are at Baltimore Sunday and finish with a home game against the Eagles.

This is setting up a scenario very much like a few years ago where an almost unthinkable combination of other teams' wins and losses all came together in our favor and left the #6 seed open for us and all we had to do was go down to Houston (who wasn't nearly as good then as they are now), and get the win.  We lost the game and missed the playoffs.

Bottom line is if we beat the Cardinals, the Lions may (or may not) get us in... but if we lose in Arizona we're done. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 20, 2012, 02:19:08 pm

I usually don't complain about reffing, but the thing that upset me most was that after Jeffery draws those 3 PI penalties, doesn't get the PI call the other way on the 4th down pass.  At that point I was thinking he's Rodney Daingerfield out there in the ref's eyes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 20, 2012, 02:37:51 pm
Yeah it sure seemed like that one ref had something personal going against Jeffery.

Maybe Alshon torched the ref's kid in a college game once or something.

Would have been nice to see at least ONE of our coaches go to bat for Jeffery on those calls.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 20, 2012, 04:54:25 pm
I dont believe flags were reviewable, so how was Lovie to come to the kid's rescue?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 20, 2012, 05:41:40 pm
Lovie should have been in the refs ear.  McCarthy was and every call went the Packers way after he did.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 20, 2012, 05:42:40 pm
What Pekin said.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 20, 2012, 07:08:08 pm
Ditto.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 20, 2012, 07:17:48 pm
yep
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 20, 2012, 07:38:50 pm
Lovie is never in anybodys ear. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 20, 2012, 09:57:37 pm
Lovie is never in anybodys ear. 

 Except in my ear where he refuses to listen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 21, 2012, 10:26:21 pm
Um, the sooner Darryl Drake gets away from Alshon the better:

Bears receiver Alshon Jeffery has not been a happy camper this week after three offensive pass interference penalties were called against him in Sunday’s loss to the Packers. Bears receivers coach Darryl Drake is worried that Jeffery is going to beat himself up about that so much that it will affect his play going forward.
 
“The thing I’m trying to make sure of is that it doesn’t destroy him from a mental standpoint,” Drake said, via CSNChicago.com. “He’s fragile right now.”
 
Fragile? Jeffery must be Italian.
 
Drake said the only thing he wants to see from Jeffery is to shake it off and get better, and do it in a hurry as the Bears face two must-win games in the final two weeks of the season.
 
“You have to man up,” Drake said. “Are you going to sit back and sulk or are you going to do something about it? You’ve still got to play the game physical so you can’t give in on that. You have to turn it into something positive.”
 
There haven’t been many positives for the Bears lately. Getting some big plays out of Jeffery would be a big boost to Chicago’s playoff hopes
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 22, 2012, 08:21:14 am
What a ridiculous thing for a position coach to say about one of his players.

Ive known Drake was a fraud for a long time and hopefully this punches his ticket out of town.

Offseason housecleaning cant come soon enough.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 22, 2012, 09:45:44 am
I think the only thing destroying Alshon Jeffery is Darryl Drake!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 22, 2012, 12:24:48 pm
Agreed, Alshon was a better WR in September than he is now.

Not good. Get him some real coaching before he's damaged any further.

Emery has to be pretty p*ssed at what has [not] been done with the two pass catchers he drafted us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 22, 2012, 12:26:47 pm
Drake telling Jeffrey to "man up" is a bad thing?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 22, 2012, 12:56:35 pm
Drake telling Jeffrey to "man up" is a bad thing?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Only if necessary. Nothing in that post says anything about Jeffrey sulking or acting detrimental to himself or the team. It just says that Jeffrey is mad. of course he is...I would be mad about those calls too. Doesn't mean that the coach shoud demean him but saying something like that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 22, 2012, 01:02:23 pm

I can understand Jeffery is probably depressed because he let the team down and Drake notices it and is dealing with it correctly, except for the part about bringing it up to the press.

But of course, we fans want to know everything that is happening...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 22, 2012, 01:03:09 pm
Only if necessary. Nothing in that post says anything about Jeffrey sulking or acting detrimental to himself or the team.

It just says that Jeffrey is mad. of course he is...I would be mad about those calls too. Doesn't mean that the coach shoud demean him but saying something like that.

The article says he's mad but not sulking or acting detrimental to the team?  Sounds to me as if he is sulking and the coach has every right to be concerned about his rookie WR.  I guess that's a good reason to fire Drake as well.  Sheeesh!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 22, 2012, 01:13:24 pm
It would be nice to think Drake had actually addressed the situation with Jeffery in the moment, on the sidelines. After the first OPI call or for sure, after the 2nd.  Seems like that would be part of the job description.

Maybe he did, maybe he didnt but since the entire Bears coaching staff seems to go on autopilot after kickoff I'm going to assume it wasnt addressed during the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 22, 2012, 02:36:41 pm
Lovie's not going anywhere

Bears coach may miss the playoffs again, but that doesn't mean he'll get fired


Scoop Jackson | ESPNChicago.com
December 21, 2012, 2:42 PM ET


His face did not look like that of a head coach who was on the verge of being escorted out of the city.

Instead, Lovie Smith looked as if nothing was wrong. As if the news/talk/rumors/suggestions/demands for his departure from Chicago aren't orbiting around him like planets. As if the new reality of his possible end game here either doesn't faze him or he simply doesn't care.

To the man who displays the same amount of facial expressions during a game as Kristen Stewart in a photo shoot (one), the fact that this is happening to Smith -- most of the discussion this week has been about him and his limits and flaws as the head coach of the Bears -- seems so trivial to him. So next year.
On a day when the word "accountability" was being constantly repeated around Halas Hall, Smith simply remained accountable for the only thing within his immediate control: his team in this moment.

"In the locker room," he said to reporters after Wednesday's practice, "guys know what's at stake this week and know exactly what they need to be concentrating on. And that's Arizona."

Supreme focus or supreme denial? If you use Smith's expressions and demeanor as a gauge, you'll never know the answer.

But what is really at stake? Something more than the chance of missing the playoffs for the fifth time in the last six years of his tenure? If anyone took the pulse of the heart rate and rhythm of the city, they'd discover that Smith's job might not officially be at stake, but the desire for him to remain here is at the lowest point it's ever been.

Truth is, unless the Bears totally fall apart and don't come close to winning the last two games of this season, then Lovie will be back. His entire coaching staff might not be, and there will be some movement (finally!) on the roster to improve the offensive line -- maybe even a Devin Hester trade? -- but the organization will give Smith at least one more year to succeed.

Or fail.

What's on his side, and what the McCaskeys will use as a reason or excuse as to why things went so bad so fast the last two seasons, are injuries. To ownership and upper management, it would be unfair to hold a head coach responsible when injuries eat away at the core of a team.

Last season remains self-explanatory. This season has been a lot less dramatic and drastic but just as damaging. Whether the players not suiting up over the past six games could have made a difference or not is open for heated discussions, but losing clutch kicker (Robbie Gould), potential all-pro (Tim Jennings), future Hall of Famer (Brian Urlacher), No. 2 wide receiver (Earl Bennett) and No. 2 running back (Michael Bush) and Jay Cutler for nearly two entire games (concussion in second quarter in Week 10 then missed Week 11, both losses) inside of this 1-5 stretch is what the Bears front office will use as the main reason for keeping Smith.

Justification? Cop out? Or both? I'm just saying ...

So despite what Phil Emery said when he took over as the new GM about not guaranteeing Smith anything past this season, Smith will last past this season.

Maybe the coach knows that his ice is not as thin if he doesn't win these next two games as, say, Jason Garrett's ice is in Dallas if he doesn't win his last two or the NFC East; maybe Smith knows these far-reaching reports of Sean Payton replacing him (because he has Chicago ties) or Mike Singletary getting a second chance as an NFL head coach here (because he's a Chicago icon) have no merit because the Bears really don't have anyone in mind at this point to replace him; maybe Smith knows that as long as Urlacher has his back and Cutler hasn't turned on him, his job with the Bears is as safe as Tom Thibodeau is with the Bulls.
Even if he's only one of the very few in Chicago who knows it: Smith is safe. He's going nowhere. Put the #OccupyLovieSmith (OLS) movement on hold, it's not going to work until either the middle of or toward the end of next season. Depending if the Bears win the NFC North or at least beat Green Bay.

Which is the real reason why Smith can look and remain and be so unassuming and unaffected by all of this skepticism, rumor, innuendo, hearsay, insinuation and wishful thinking going on around him. He knows words can never hurt a man when his doubters don't have sticks or stones to throw at him.

And a franchise quarterback has your back.

(now where's that link that had Cutler/Marshall/Emery divided against Urly/Briggs/Smith I wonder.....)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 22, 2012, 02:53:52 pm
If they lose the next two games and keep Lovie, I am starting to follow the Patriots. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 22, 2012, 08:18:23 pm
Phill has to be jumping for joy if Lovie is kept
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 22, 2012, 10:14:59 pm

 If I have a brush ... and you have a bar of soap ... and between us we have the CHICAGO BEARS ...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 22, 2012, 10:26:20 pm
Notice Phill only sticks up for the black coaches and players?

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 22, 2012, 10:27:12 pm
This doesn't surprise you, does it Peke?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 22, 2012, 10:28:07 pm
Ok, dont play the race card.  ;) 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 22, 2012, 10:41:43 pm
Notice Phill only sticks up for the black coaches and players?


This doesn't surprise you, does it Peke?

And this coming from the 2 dumbest racist on the forum.  I guess they only stick up for the white players.  Using the race card now on the Bears thread is so stupid.

Pekin needs to get out of his trailer and understand there aren't any black or white players on the team.  They all are navy and orange.  Get the hatred out of your system.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 22, 2012, 11:08:21 pm
Drake has yet to develop a single WR for the Bears yet Phill sticks up for him.  Why?

The only WR who is worth a darn is Marshall (who came here with coaching and talent).  Bennett and Jeffreys have talent but seem to be regressing.  Hester has not learned a thing from him.




 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 22, 2012, 11:12:36 pm
Poor man.  His trailer park must be full of clowns just like him.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 22, 2012, 11:25:08 pm
Poor man.  His housing project must be full of clowns just like him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 22, 2012, 11:29:42 pm
Lions just got blown out by the Falcons.

If the Bears lose either of these two games Lovie has to go. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 23, 2012, 12:30:32 am
Ok, dont play the race card.  ;) 

 Honest to God.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjqxgBAhTS8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjqxgBAhTS8)

 GO YOU FUUUKIN CHICAGO BEARS !!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 23, 2012, 05:37:31 am
And this coming from the 2 dumbest racist on the forum.  I guess they only stick up for the white players.  Using the race card now on the Bears thread is so stupid.

Pekin needs to get out of his trailer and understand there aren't any black or white players on the team.  They all are navy and orange.  Get the hatred out of your system.

Pekin is pointing out the truth, telling it like it is. You are the biggest racist on this board bar none.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 23, 2012, 05:38:39 am
Yeap realized the same years ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 23, 2012, 07:52:12 am
Pekin is pointing out the truth, telling it like it is. You are the biggest racist on this board bar none.

Um, just how much does Phil weigh?  ;) 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 23, 2012, 10:19:15 am
C'mon Man!!!!  It's Christmas...give it a rest.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 23, 2012, 01:41:33 pm
Um, just how much does Phil weigh?  ;) 

Merry Christmas to you too.

C'mon Man!!!!  It's Christmas...give it a rest.

Amen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 23, 2012, 01:46:02 pm
Just kidding Phil.  A Merry Christmas to you too. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 23, 2012, 02:10:11 pm
I'm hoping we're seeing the last of Lovie Smith.. Time for a change..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 23, 2012, 02:12:03 pm
houston down 10 to minny. just super.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 23, 2012, 11:07:57 pm
houston down 10 to minny. just super.

 Never thought in a million years Minnie would walk into Houston and knock them off.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 24, 2012, 12:31:26 am

I watched some early action of the Houston game.  Houston's defense really played Petersen well, but their O-line was totally dominated by the Vikings and Schaub out of the pocket was couldn't find the turf fast enough.

The Bears recent losses have come against the 49ers, TExans, Vikings, Seahawks and Packers - all playoff caliber teams and all but the 49er game were they within one score to tie.

Bears are a good team...just not a very good team this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 24, 2012, 01:32:55 am
I watched some early action of the Houston game.  Houston's defense really played Petersen well, but their O-line was totally dominated by the Vikings and Schaub out of the pocket was couldn't find the turf fast enough.

The Bears recent losses have come against the 49ers, TExans, Vikings, Seahawks and Packers - all playoff caliber teams and all but the 49er game were they within one score to tie.

Bears are a good team...just not a very good team this year.

 Actually if DA BEARS were within one score in 4 out of 5 games to tie ... I would call that very good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 24, 2012, 05:01:00 am
I have a hard time calling mediocre "good". You must beat the bad teams, but you must also be able to beat the good teams, at least every now and then.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 24, 2012, 05:44:25 am
Had we not had such a rash of injuries I think we would have one at least one, most likely two of those games.  Seattle immediately comes to mind.  However the NFL is mostly about overcoming injury issues.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 24, 2012, 09:24:00 am
I have a hard time calling mediocre "good". You must beat the bad teams, but you must also be able to beat the good teams, at least every now and then.

Bears right now are 9-6 that is not mediocre in the NFL.

Bears have beaten the Colts and the Vikings this year.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 24, 2012, 10:02:47 am
The problem with the Bears is that while they have a relatively high floor, they also have a low ceiling.

The offense in particular is like driving a Ford Escort on the Dan Ryan. If you have time to get up to speed theres enough to keep you in the flow... But if you need to kick it down for that extra burst then youre screwed cause theres not enough under the hood.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 24, 2012, 10:37:20 am

I hate to talk about the offseason , especially with a meaningful regular season game left to play, but you have to wonder what does this offense need to improve so that its at least average.

Is it a couple of offensive lineman, a pass receiving TE, or possibly another playmaking WR?

I know, I know...most will answer Yes.

Or is it more than enhancing personnel - maybe its more than just the play calling but a need for an entirely new offensive playbook.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 24, 2012, 10:50:42 am
All of that plus a real OC to go with it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 24, 2012, 10:54:21 am
Well the real question is does upgrading the OL make the play calling better?  If Cutler has more time/confidence does his execution become better?  If it does, then maybe you dont need a new OC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 24, 2012, 10:56:13 am
I'm just going by what I've seen this year with his ultra conservative play calling.   Cutler had pass protection yesterday and he stunk 3/4 of the game.  Instead of running the ball when Forte was getting around 8 ypc Tice kept having Cutler throwing the ball which he was 1 for 11 passing at one time!

That's on the OC.  Get rid of him!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 24, 2012, 11:19:56 am
Terry Shea, Ron Turner, Mike Martz, Mike Tice....even if you fire Tice I don't trust Lovie to hire a good replacement. He has a track record of hiring failures. Lovie needs to go too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 24, 2012, 11:47:05 am
Terry Shea, Ron Turner, Mike Martz, Mike Tice....even if you fire Tice I don't trust Lovie to hire a good replacement. He has a track record of hiring failures. Lovie needs to go too.

Could not agree more.  And who could Lovie get if they demote/get rid of Tice???
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 24, 2012, 12:16:23 pm
Terry Shea, Ron Turner, Mike Martz, Mike Tice....even if you fire Tice I don't trust Lovie to hire a good replacement. He has a track record of hiring failures. Lovie needs to go too.

Well you know I believe Turner had us in the Super Bowl with his offense so I wouldn't put him in the Terry Shea/Mike Tice/Mike Martz caterogry but your point is valid.  When Turner had talent to work with his offense worked even with Rex Grossman at QB.

I agree the team should clean house.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 24, 2012, 12:22:22 pm
Could not agree more.  And who could Lovie get if they demote/get rid of Tice???

I say get rid of Tice period.  He's not a good OC and apparently the same goes as offensive line coach too.  This line has gotten worse since he's been here.

Say, it seems to me that you're resigned to the fact Lovie may be back next season with your comment!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 24, 2012, 01:41:54 pm
Well you know I believe Turner had us in the Super Bowl with his offense so I wouldn't put him in the Terry Shea/Mike Tice/Mike Martz caterogry but your point is valid.  When Turner had talent to work with his offense worked even with Rex Grossman at QB.

I agree the team should clean house.


Not sure you are remembering Turner accurately. Check out this link. His highest ranked offense(the super bowl season) was 15th.  He was mid to high 20's for his other seasons.

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2012/1/17/2713448/tice-looks-to-reverse-offensive-history-under-lovie-smith
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 24, 2012, 01:55:16 pm
Not that we would go far into the playoffs anyway but thank you Seahawks for giving the Packers a reason to play to win next week. Or...screw you Seahawks for giving us a chance to weasal into the playoffs and save Lovie's job. Can't make up my mind which. On the other hand we are completely capable of stinking up the joint in Detroit next week. It is really hard being a Bear fan.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 24, 2012, 02:00:47 pm
Yes it is....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 24, 2012, 02:09:29 pm
I say get rid of Tice period.  He's not a good OC and apparently the same goes as offensive line coach too.  This line has gotten worse since he's been here.

Say, it seems to me that you're resigned to the fact Lovie may be back next season with your comment!  :)

If we somehow make the playoffs, yes I think he comes back.  Would I WANT that to happen?  No.  Do I think the McCaskeys swallow $5 mil if they dont have to, no way. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 24, 2012, 02:10:57 pm
Not that we would go far into the playoffs anyway but thank you Seahawks for giving the Packers a reason to play to win next week. Or...screw you Seahawks for giving us a chance to weasal into the playoffs and save Lovie's job. Can't make up my mind which. On the other hand we are completely capable of stinking up the joint in Detroit next week. It is really hard being a Bear fan.

I wonder if it is this hard being a Patriots fan?  What photo shoot is Brady's wife going to do next and will he be distracted.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 24, 2012, 06:52:39 pm
That's on the OC.  Get rid of him!

I am not going to sit here and cry and whine about the loss of our OC. But there are circumstances that will surface if that happens. 1st, will the Bears also get rid of Lovie too? If so then a whole new coaching staff will solve the problem and there will be OCs more capable available to improve the team. If they dont jettison Lovie and the whole coaching staff then likely Lovie gets no extension and fulfills the final year on his contract. If that happens Lovie then becomes a lame duck coach and no quality OC is going to come in here or agree to come here on a one year deal. I just dont see it. I'd say the odds of that are 1 in a billion. Would Bears fans be satisfied with elevating Jeremy Bates to OC, because that might be the best that can be expected to work for a lame duck HC? Then there comes the problem of finding another OLine coach too.

The problem is greater than just firing Tice. You need a complete plan, not a spot decision.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 24, 2012, 09:08:31 pm

 Tim Holt is the OL coach.

 Look at the players left over from the angelo years that both Holt and Tice have to work with.

 I'm not saying either one is a genuis ... but look at the garbage to work with to make an OL.

 If anybody can explain how you move Garza to Center ... instead of getting a REAL Center ...

 just bad drafts by DA BEARS when it comes to OL. If they even drafted OL at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 24, 2012, 09:21:15 pm
I want the Bears organization to go all out to get Sean Payton as our HC.  He is my first choice.  Second is Gruden third is Shannahan.

Well unless the Bears make the playoffs and win a few games.  LOL!  Since that is not happening Lovie has to go and his terrible WR coach buddy Drake!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 24, 2012, 09:42:35 pm
If the Bears hire any of your choices you'll be able to knock me over with a feather.  Lovie has a winning record.  Bets on if he stays?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 24, 2012, 10:02:20 pm
That's on the OC.  Get rid of him!

I am not going to sit here and cry and whine about the loss of our OC. But there are circumstances that will surface if that happens. 1st, will the Bears also get rid of Lovie too? If so then a whole new coaching staff will solve the problem and there will be OCs more capable available to improve the team. If they dont jettison Lovie and the whole coaching staff then likely Lovie gets no extension and fulfills the final year on his contract. If that happens Lovie then becomes a lame duck coach and no quality OC is going to come in here or agree to come here on a one year deal. I just dont see it. I'd say the odds of that are 1 in a billion. Would Bears fans be satisfied with elevating Jeremy Bates to OC, because that might be the best that can be expected to work for a lame duck HC? Then there comes the problem of finding another OLine coach too.

The problem is greater than just firing Tice. You need a complete plan, not a spot decision.

Tice was the OC because nobody else would take the job because Lovie was on such a short leash.  His leash will be 1 year, and nobody in his right mind would want to jump into that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 24, 2012, 10:14:27 pm
Sanzenbacher was cut.  Interesting.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 24, 2012, 10:20:53 pm
Who did they pick up to replace him?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 24, 2012, 10:25:09 pm
Just said they were clearing space to pick up someone. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 24, 2012, 11:29:44 pm

 Cutler actually gets Marshall ... Jeffery .. Bennett.

 If everything works out right ... Forte should get 100 yds. Bell should get 100 yds.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 24, 2012, 11:53:19 pm
I here Urlacher may be back for the Lions game.  Not sure if that is a good or bad thing.  He is very knowledgeble and knows dicisions opponents offenses and what calls to make.  I noticed against the Packers briggs was all the time running to Roach telling him what call to make which hurt the defense since Briggs as then out of place at times when the ball was snapped.

However Roach is way faster then Urlacher and  had a better game against eh cardinals then he did against the Packers.

At least all 16 games matter but I wanted more from this season.  The offense has been a  huge dissapointment. I expected the O-line to be better then what they were.  I knew they would not be good but I was hoping for NFL average.     
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 25, 2012, 01:52:46 am

Yeah, no doubt Roach has more range than Urlacher, especially with all his leg issues.  But Urlacher's the leader of the defense and if he's ready to go he plays - that's just the way it is.

It's not just the offensive line...upgrading them will  help but the passing offense looks like something you draw up on a playground.  Marshall goes out and Cutler forces the pass to him regardless of coverage, or down and distance.

Do the Bears ever run an out pattern?  You know where the WR runs 7 to 10 yards down the field and makes a 90 turn toward the sideline.  Can't say that I have seen on this year.   How about a quick slant?  How about a quick anything?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on December 25, 2012, 07:13:01 am
I would agree with the concensus, no exceptional OC will join the Bears if Lovie is retained and we miss the playoffs.  At this point, the only way you get a different offense is to clean everyone out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on December 25, 2012, 11:17:25 am
Sanzenbacher was cut.  Interesting.

Suprised that he never developed into a good WR.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 25, 2012, 11:20:58 am
Short and slow are not qualities of a good WR.  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 25, 2012, 11:45:12 am
Anytime I hear short and slow I think of Bobby Engram. He knew how to get open, catch the ball and get first downs. His YAC sucked, but that wasn't his game. I think a lot comes back on these coaches, they never seem to develop and or play to the strengths of the players..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 25, 2012, 11:56:48 am
Most likely scenario in the event of a playoff appearance is that Lovie isnt fired but isnt extended either. Bates is promoted to OC  and Tice is either fired or demoted back to OL coach.

That avoids the problem of finding an OC willing to work in a lame duck scenario.

Re the Lions game I could easily see Lovie playing a less than 100% Urlacher to the detriment of the D as a whole and possibly even a loss. The prospect of him possibly being forced to sit Urlacher to save his own skin is ironic to say the least.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on December 25, 2012, 04:21:03 pm
Short and slow are not qualities of a good WR.  ;)

Yeah,  well I gess those are a couple of good reasons.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 25, 2012, 05:33:16 pm
Sanzenbacher will get picked up by the Patriots and turn into decent player...just a feeling.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 25, 2012, 05:47:00 pm
Have the Bears developed a single WR since Drake has been here?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 25, 2012, 06:17:21 pm
Nope
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 25, 2012, 06:30:41 pm
I was thinking today, even if the Bears make the playoffs, and Urlacher plays vs Det, and gets hurt again, which I think will happen, he wont be available to play in the playoff game.  Its a no win situation.  Sigh.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 25, 2012, 06:31:02 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/25/bengals-claim-dane-sanzenbacher-off-waivers/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 25, 2012, 07:10:02 pm
It's almost as if it's the black hole for receivers in Chicago..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 25, 2012, 07:46:51 pm

I kind of understand the Sanzenbacher cut.  He was small and slow and also had quite a few drops last season.  He had some quickness, I guess, but really wasn't a special teams guy.   Not that I'm a fan of his but the guy  that should be cut is McCown.  He's kind of like Kahlil Bell - he'll be there if we need him again.

Most likely the roster spot is for Conte - hopefully not for Forte.   I haven't seen much of Walters but we'll have a pretty good idea of what he can do facing the #2 offense in the league Sunday.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 25, 2012, 07:48:45 pm
Forte's injury, wasted money on Bush, create big problem for Bears
If Forte can't play Sunday, Bears face must-win game with Bell, Allen and Unga

Mike Mulligan

6:52 p.m. CST, December 25, 2012

The franchise of Walter Payton, Gale Sayers and Red Grange could become the attack of Kahlil Bell, Armando Allen and maybe even Harvey Unga on Sunday at Detroit.

Unga is on the practice squad and Bell has already been signed off the street and moved ahead of him, but there is no telling how desperate the Bears will be.

They hope Matt Forte will be sufficiently recovered from his third sprained ankle of the season to lead a playoff push against the Lions. Forte went down after his first carry of the second half Sunday at Arizona and left in a walking cast.

   
Forte's injury leaves the Bears deep in makeshift mode after they pulled the plug on reserve Michael Bush's season when he failed a pregame fitness test with a rib injury before the Packers game in Week 15. You can't help but wonder about that decision now.

The Bears reportedly expected Bush to play against the Packers, and when he couldn't, they were short-handed. They were then embarrassed by a significant short-yardage failure.

Frankly, the Bush saga is puzzling. It's a confounding narrative from the amount of money they gave him (four years at $14 million, with $7 million guaranteed) to the production (411 yards, 114 carries) to the decision to put him on injured reserve.

IR is for players projected to be out at least six weeks. Why did Bush effectively sit out two games — technically, he had one carry at Minnesota — before the team realized he couldn't go for the rest of the season? Did he mislead the Bears about the severity of the injury? Was the IR move punitive because they were relying on him and he couldn't go? Was his problem diagnosed wrong?

The Bears wasted a ton of money, something they have made a habit of at tight end and running back.

Former general manager Jerry Angelo signed tight end Brandon Manumaleuna to a five-year, $15 million deal that wound up as a one-year, $6.1 million robbery in 2010. New GM Phil Emery made a similar blunder by giving Kellen Davis a two-year, $6 million deal after he reportedly had free-agent visits lined up with Dallas, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.

If you consider Cedric Benson was a backup to Thomas Jones in the Super Bowl year, Angelo made an art form of paying bad money to backup running backs. Consider the last three years, two under Angelo and the first of Emery. Chester Taylor was signed as a free agent in 2010 on a four-year, $12.5 million deal that effectively wound up costing the team $7 million for 267 yards on 112 carries. Taylor is still on the books for $1 million in dead money.

Marion Barber was on a two-year, $4.5 million deal last year. He wound up costing $2.5 million for one year.

Bush was signed before Forte got his four-year, $32 million deal but has wound up with an eerily similar statistical season to Barber. The difference is that Bush will likely return. His guaranteed money virtually ensures that.

If you play a bit of moneyball with those numbers, you find that Taylor earned about $26,200 a yard, Barber just under $6,000 and Bush about $8,500.

There is only so much money to go around in the world of the NFL salary cap. Spending it on one position means you don't have enough for other positions. In this case, if you put your millions in backup running backs and bad tight ends, you can wind up with an inexpensive and poor offensive line.

The other issue of concern involving Bush is the way the Bears have been using their roster the last few weeks, particularly in that Green Bay game.

There are only 53 players on an NFL roster, and 46 can dress on Sunday. Putting together an inactive list late in the season is essential to create the flexibility needed on game day. While Green Bay used everyone but its backup quarterback in that game, the Bears never got to Jason Campbell, Bush, defensive tackle Matt Toeaina or wide receiver Dane Sanzenbacher.

Toeaina, like Bush, was put on Injured reserve after the game. Sanzenbacher was an inactive last week, then was cut Monday. Why did two injured players dress for a game? If there was some sort of miscommunication with Bush, what happened with Toeaina? And why keep Sanzenbacher on the roster all year with virtually no contribution and then cut him with a game left?

If the Bears need a roster spot to sign depth at safety with Chris Conte down with a hamstring, why not cut Josh McCown, a 33-year-old backup quarterback who was bypassed by the NFL last year and this year?

Little things add up quickly in the NFL.

Special contributor Mike Mulligan co-hosts "the Mully and Hanley Show" weekdays from 5 to 9 a.m. on WSCR-AM 670.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 25, 2012, 10:00:15 pm

Does Sunday's win save Lovie's job?

December 23, 2012, 8:44 pm

JOHN "MOON" MULLIN

 GLENDALE, Ariz. – The real question lurking underneath the Bears’ 28-13 victory over the Arizona Cardinals may not be whether or not it ultimately gets the Bears into the playoffs. It could have advanced that, if the Bears defeat the Detroit Lions next Sunday and the Green Bay Packers are kind enough to dispose of the Minnesota Vikings.

More important for the longer run is how the performance is weighed and assessed by decision-makers at Halas Hall vis’a’vis Lovie Smith’s future.

Did the game in Arizona help or hurt Lovie Smith’s chances of remaining Bears head coach for 2013?

Right now the answer is…yes. More on that in a moment.

Considerations

Understand the full process here, because it has not played out yet and won’t until after next Sunday in Detroit. Scenarios have been considered, just like mock drafts, and the what-if’s weighed, but nothing is settled one way or the other.

Various individuals tell CSNChicago.com that Virginia McCaskey has been involved in decisions such as retaining Smith last year and will be a voice in the room again.

Of course she will. She’s on the board of directors and she is ownership. She is a non-meddling owner as well, so she is not going to dictate. That’s not her style.

But she will be among those who will rightly want a full and clear explanation of why Smith should be fired. If it is the conclusion of GM Phil Emery or anyone else that a change is needed, that case will have to be made and made convincingly. This is not one person’s call.

In other words, some very important names on the Bears masthead will need to be conclusively sold that the head coach is the major problem and impediment to franchise success.

Smith is held in very high regard by Mrs. McCaskey and the organization overall for that matter. He’s brought credit to the organization, if not enough of it to satisfy some, and has represented Bear football admirably in their eyes.

Of course, some of the same could have been said about Jerry Angelo, too, and he was abruptly escorted from his job and the building after 11 years. Dick and Gail Jauron were thought of very highly by board members.

The Bears won’t necessarily owe Smith $6 million if they choose to fire him. NFL coaching contracts typically call for the remaining amount to be mitigated by the salary of a subsequent job. If Smith leaves and is hired as an NFL head coach for, say, $5 million, the Bears owe the difference, the $1 million.

Which way trending?

Money won’t be a significant element in the discussion, as it was a year ago when the amount at risk was $11 million. But other on-field aspects will be.

Organizations evaluate in large part based on where they project a situation leading. Smith could be 18 games over .500 for his Chicago career with a 10-6 finish, and firing someone with a 10-6 record is not the norm.

More important, however, is how Phil Emery and the board of directors perceive the Bears’ trend line. The Bears could not hold the Seattle game because the defense, Smith’s forte, was put on roller skates for two touchdown drives totaling near 200 yards at the end of regulation and early overtime.

Emery got Smith the receiving firepower requested, with the trade for Brandon Marshall and drafting of Alshon Jeffery. Will Emery and the organization be satisfied with what Smith and his offensive staff have done with what they were given?

And the tipping point is whether or not the gap has been closed between the Bears and Green Bay Packers.

But the defense rose up against the inferior Arizona Cardinals and you are left to wonder how much weight the evaluation process will place on the defense holding that team to 248 yards.

Or the offense failing to top 300 yards for the fifth time in the last seven.

Or special teams giving up a touchdown and putting the offense in a hole with a botched punt return.

It will all be taken into account. If you don’t like Lovie Smith, the sometimes-balky performance is one more reason to fire him.

If you think he should get at least the last year on his deal, the play of Julius Peppers and others says you wait until after the Detroit game to decide.

That has always been the Bears’ way, in any case.

http://www.csnchicago.com/football-chicago-bears/bears-talk/Does-Sundays-win-save-Lovies-job?blockID=816775&feedID=10330
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 25, 2012, 10:04:39 pm
I sure didnt know Harvey Unga was still lurking with the Bears. I thought he was cut and rightfully so. I guess he kinda snuck in the back door when we werent watching.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 25, 2012, 11:01:58 pm

Unga has been cut and re-signed to the PS several times since 2010 when he was plucked in the supplemental draft.

Unga is the mystery man.  I can't recall him carrying the ball in any preseason.  He's big at 6-0 about 240...but not sure if the Bears see him as a HB or FB.  He did set BYU's career rushing record.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 25, 2012, 11:32:59 pm

 We should all look at the WR's that Drake coached up that angelo cut.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 08:29:06 am
These to me are the three most likely scenarios for the Bears and what I believe they would mean for Lovie.

1) Most Likely:  Bears limp into the #6 seed and then get demolished (again) by the Niners in the 1st round game. In this scenario Lovie would not be fired but would not be extended either.  He would basically be on double secret probation for the 2013 season and there may be some shuffling of duties among his staff but there would not be any outright hirings or dismissals below him.  While I believe this is the most likely scenario, I also believe it is the most undesirable one because it would basically mean more of the same on the sidelines next year and will limit the potential for improvement next year to whatever roster improvements Emery is able to make -- which are necessary but IMO will not be sufficient until and unless they are complimented by much more competent and creative coaching.   

2) Next Most Likely:  Bears miss the playoffs by losing on Sunday and/or Vikings upsetting the Pack.  To miss the postseason after leading the division for much of the season is unacceptable to most Bears fans (and I believe, Emery) and would result in Lovie and most of his staff being let go.

3) Least Likely:  Bears make the playoffs, somehow find an offense and go deep into the postseason (i.e., NFC championship game or further). I give this outcome a less than 10% chance of happening but if it did, it would result in a short-term (no more than 3 years) extension for Lovie happening sometime this offseason, and the majority of his staff being retained although perhaps some shuffling of duties occurring on the offensive side.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 26, 2012, 09:19:53 am
I think that number 3 could happen if Hester starts scoring and Tim Jennings and Charles Tillman do as well. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 26, 2012, 09:56:24 am
Then Peter Pan could sprinkle magic dust on the team and they win the superbowl..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 10:05:40 am
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4681504/bears-sign-safety-nolan

Another safety.

I assume this means Conte can't go on Sunday. Conte's turning into a decent player for us but the dude can't stay healthy.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 26, 2012, 10:55:18 am

Major Wright couldn't stay healthy and it appears will finally make it through a season unscathed.  Bears have had a lot of injury (and turnover) at the safety position over the years dating back to Mike Brown.  It's a very demanding position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 11:02:28 am
Sure seems like safeties who play for Lovie have a lot shorter shelf life than those in other systems.  Lovie's Tampa-2 requires a constant influx of highly talented safeties who can also stay healthy.  Those aren't easily found.

Maybe that's why we keep having to draft a couple of them every year, and why high draft picks have been used on guys like Danieal Manning and Hardin who are athletic freaks but require years to turn into decent football players.  Maybe that's also why we should also be looking at a new system that isn't so highly dependent on those types of players. 

BTW if any of you want to see a safety bringing it old school, pull up some highlights from the Sunday night Niners/Seahawks game and appreciate Kam Chancellor in beast mode.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 26, 2012, 11:45:19 am

Not sure I agree with you about the talent or injury factor for Tampa 2 safeties.  In Tampa-2 the safeties are rarely near the line of scrimmage so they aren't having to deal with bigger O-lineman which should mean less potential for injuries.

As for talent, the position doesn't really exploit a safety's ball hawking skills as they are rarely in man defense and typically playing very conservative.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 26, 2012, 11:58:45 am
Not sure you are remembering Turner accurately. Check out this link. His highest ranked offense(the super bowl season) was 15th.  He was mid to high 20's for his other seasons.

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2012/1/17/2713448/tice-looks-to-reverse-offensive-history-under-lovie-smith

Proves my point big time.  Rex was the QB who was extremely erratic but in the playoffs the offense put up 70 points in 2 games.  Got to give the man credit.  Hell Rex was Offensive player of the month of September in the Super Bowl season!  Just think if Rex had that kind of production without the erratic play the entire season!

Got to give Turner some props.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 12:03:22 pm
Ahh Rex.  He'd put up a 130 passer rating one game and a 15 the next.

Watching him was actually really good training for watching Cutler cause you never knew whether the good one or the bad one was gonna show up for any given game. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 26, 2012, 12:03:45 pm
Turner gets props for a 15th ranked offense because his QB got hot for a couple games?..um...ok
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 26, 2012, 12:05:32 pm
LOL!!!  You know that's not what I said.  But go ahead with your Turner bashing.   He's gone and we're moving on.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 26, 2012, 12:05:49 pm
Hopefully that is.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 26, 2012, 12:07:47 pm
I predict that Lovie stays...Tice goes...and we're having the same conversation this time next year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 26, 2012, 12:09:25 pm
If Emery does that yapper will have a fit!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 12:16:33 pm
I predict that Lovie stays...Tice goes...and we're having the same conversation this time next year.

That's pretty much how I'm seeing it.

Season ending losses to the Cards and Lions probably would have punched Lovie's ticket out of town because it would have reflected a team that's given up.  A loss on Sunday to the Lions with the playoffs on the line MIGHT still get Lovie bounced, but unlikely.  A win on Sunday almost certainly means Lovie gets to coach out his current contract -- even if the Vikings bounce us from the playoffs a few hours later.  The McCaskeys are short-sighted folk with very limited football knowledge who make decisions based more on personality than production, and if they see a 10-6 final record with a 2-game season ending win streak they'll take that as "acceptable" and "positive momentum"... completely ignoring how this year's team dropped from division leader to 3rd place in just a few weeks time. 

As for Tice he will probably be offered the "opportunity" to come back next year as strictly the OL Coach (Holt being let go), or he'll be let go  (in which case Holt unfortunately stays as OL coach despite having done absolutely NOTHING with this unit).  No way do I see Tice returning as OC after this year's shi-bacle.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 26, 2012, 01:56:52 pm
I think it is 50-50 if we dont make the playoffs that Lovie gets launched.  If we lose the first playoff game 25-75, and if we win the first playoff game 10-90.  It will be very interesting to see how Emery handles this.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 02:03:21 pm
Yeah...  you have to wonder which hurts Lovie's case more.  Squeaking into the playoffs only to get obliterated (again) by the Niners in the 1st round, or not making it there at all.

In Emery's mind there may not be any difference but in his bosses' minds I'm certain there is.

The other thing to keep in mind is, from a draft perspective, if we beat the Lions but the Vikings knock us out of the playoffs anyway, we will have the lowest possible position of all the non-playoff teams. In other words the same basic spot were in last year, and pretty much the worst of both worlds from a GM perspective.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 26, 2012, 02:05:03 pm
And that's what you get from a Lovie led team. Mediocrity..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 26, 2012, 02:06:54 pm
I just hope Emery has the stones to make the hard decision and push it thru.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 02:09:43 pm
And that's what you get from a Lovie led team.

I wouldn't say Lovie exactly "leads" the Bears. Teams with real leadership win important games, don't make multiple critical mistakes nearly every game, don't completely collapse against superior teams (especially within their division), and play at or above their actual talent level vs. below it.

What I see from Lovie is management, not leadership.  Huge difference.

The problem Emery will have if he wants to launch Lovie is that the Bears' biggest problem this year hasn't been Lovie's coaching style, in-game decisions or defensive philosophy (although those have all been contributing factors)...  the biggest problem by far has been an utterly incapable O-Line, followed by the complete lack of any viable receiving options outside of Brandon Marshall.  And since Lovie has traditionally and publicly distanced himself so far from the offensive side of the equation, it's much harder to hold him accountable for those failings.  He's in charge of a team with one of the worst offenses in the league, but exactly how responsible is he for that terrible offense?

If our D had been as bad this year as the offense, it would be a lot easier to trace the blame back to Lovie.  But as it stands the McCaskeys may take the position that rather than firing Lovie, Emery needs to buckle down and get some more talent for the offense, make a couple of tweaks to the OC job assignments (without hiring or firing anyone), and see what happens next year.

Like I've said before, no matter how much wizardry Emery can work this offseason on the talent side, I still don't see these Bears becoming championship contenders until those roster upgrades are leveraged by a better caliber of coaching.  For example, better players on the OL and a real TE may take this offense from laughably bad to moderately capable, but until there's a pro-caliber offensive mind on this staff the offense will never be championship class no matter how well Emery stocks the cupboard with talent. 

The way I see it, the coaches -- not the roster -- are setting the ceiling for this team.  But ownership may see it differently.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 03:04:01 pm
IF Lovie were to go this guy should get a long look.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/26/bruce-arians-im-not-just-gonna-run-away-to-be-a-head-coach/

Peyton Manning, Ben Rothlisberger and Andrew Luck have all worked under him.  Safe to say he knows a little about how to get the most out of a QB.  And while he was hired by Indy as their OC, he has been the Colts' de facto HC for the majority of the year while Pagano battled cancer.  Those Colts who are going to the playoffs after only winning 1 game last year, BTW.  So the whole "no HC experience" argument is essentially moot.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 26, 2012, 03:10:20 pm
Like the Trib article said, Virginia will be in that room to make the decision.  Its a classical example of who you know rather than what you know.  According to the Trib, Lovie is highly regarded by the McCaskeys. It will take a major blowup (like the jer) to get him launched. Even at that, who would come in to coach?  Forgetting the ball of yarn management the Bears are, what's to coach?  Old legs, hurt bodies, and really, with the decline of Hester, nobody has any speed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 26, 2012, 03:21:10 pm
Lots of possible changes in the offseason or maybe none...I'm more concerned about the Lions this weekend.  And after that I can play the whatif game...or maybe not if we win.

I'll say this IF there is going to be a scapegoat for the season Lovie will probably sacrifice Tice and how about this for a new coach for the Bears...Toub.


46

Good point about speed...offensively they really don't have any and defensively aside from McClellen who is fast for a DE there are no burners there either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 26, 2012, 03:24:45 pm
As much as I kind of like Toub, I would really prefer everyone gets launched and start from scratch.  If the new HC wants Toub as ST coach, then ok.  But dont hand him the job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 26, 2012, 03:57:14 pm
Are we all on the same page here? Are we talking about the  return of Turner the OC who was OC here or are we talking about the San Diego HC Norv Turner, his brother? Cause I think there might be a confusion issue to some here.  I think Norv will be available but not his brother.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 04:06:59 pm
The Turner in question as a potential OC replacement would be Norv, not Ron.  The guy Phill and others have been talking about most recently is Ron.

Re Toub as HC...  up till this year I probably would have said yes but his STs have blown chunks this year.  I mean let's face it, they've been Ba-a-a-d.  In fact I would say our return units in particular have been the 3rd biggest problem on the team this year (after the OL and pass catchers not named Marshall). Not only have big returns been almost non-existent, but they've had a bunch of mistakes and penalties that have wound up with our offense starting inside our own 15 for what seems like at least 3-4 times every game this year.

In Toub's defense, when you've got an idiot like Hester going rogue back there on returns it's gonna make the rest of your unit look bad.  I get that.  But if Toub has lost his mojo with just the STs what makes anyone think the cure is to push him up to HC?  Put me in the "fresh start" camp please.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 26, 2012, 04:58:31 pm
That is my impression. I just think there might be some confusion as to who is available and who isnt.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 05:08:14 pm
Technically neither of them are available at the moment.

Last I heard Ron was coaching WRs in Indy, and Norv is still the HC of the Chargers at least until Monday.

Will be interesting to see if a team offers Norv an OC vs a HC gig as Norv went on record a couple weeks ago saying he'd accept such an offer if the right team presented it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 26, 2012, 05:14:18 pm
My first choice is Sean Payton as the next Bears HC.

If they do not go for him now he will either get locked up by the Saints or another team for years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on December 26, 2012, 06:07:15 pm
Nobody is mentioning Andy Reid...

He is going to be available.  He would be a good Coordinator or HC.  I just think his talent level wore down in Philly and the change of scenery might do him good.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 06:20:10 pm
Marshall, Tillman, Jennings, Melton and Peppers go to Pro Bowl.

Briggs gets snubbed. Happy for the other guys but I think 55 got jobbed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 26, 2012, 06:51:06 pm
I think Reid needs a year off to get himself and his family back together.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 26, 2012, 07:08:24 pm
Interesting about Briggs.  I bet he is an alternate or something.  The others fairly deserving.  I need to look at the list.  Peppers, not so sure about.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 26, 2012, 07:09:07 pm
When you see the OLB that made it you will understand.  They are all flashy 3-4 sack guys.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 26, 2012, 07:11:09 pm
OLB: Aldon Smith, 49ers; DeMarcus Ware, Cowboys; Clay Matthews, Packers
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 07:15:50 pm
Yeah I see what you mean about the LBs. 4-3 guys are gonna get jobbed every time the way thats set up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 26, 2012, 07:29:32 pm
hope somebody from the Bears is watching the little cesars bowl.  the chippiwas are blowing massive holes in the w. ky. d line I could even run through.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 07:33:02 pm
Are the Chippewas the team that big LT plays for? That projected 1st round pick?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 26, 2012, 07:37:04 pm
That would explain it, didn't know.  I'll watch that side of the line. Central, located in beautiful downtown mt. pleasant.  Home of the "omg its so ****** cold" saying. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 08:10:51 pm
Their LT is Eric Fisher, 6'7 305. He's either the 2nd or 3rd ranked OT on most boards even with the smaller school background. I've seen him going to the Bears around the 18-20 range in a couple of mocks.

Not sure Emery is comfortable with a rook at LT though. Still think that need will be filled via FA and our 1st rounder will be either an interior OL or TE.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on December 26, 2012, 08:16:53 pm
Pro-bowl    :-(

Saturdy at Center?  Is this a joke?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 26, 2012, 08:21:19 pm
Reminds me of the last year Kreutz got in.

Totally a "name" vote.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 26, 2012, 08:23:38 pm
I saw that as well.  The dude just got benched his run blocking has been so bad. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on December 26, 2012, 08:25:58 pm
True, true.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 26, 2012, 10:14:10 pm
OLB: Aldon Smith, 49ers; DeMarcus Ware, Cowboys; Clay Matthews, Packers

I don't think anyone who misses significant time injured should make it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 27, 2012, 02:03:09 am
How the H Peppers got in is beyond me. The guy has been for the most part invisible this year. He's had a few sacks but he certainly hasn't dominated any games. Briggs is a travesty. He should be going instead of Peppers....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 27, 2012, 02:34:49 am

No 4-3 NFC DE has more sacks than Peppers - thanks to last week's matchup against rookie Potter.

Peppers hasn't had the impact season he had the first year with the Bears.  He's about on par with last year.  But I'd hate to see our defense without him even if he is no longer in his prime.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 27, 2012, 07:31:22 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/videogallery/73820226/Video-Rosenbloom-on-Lovie-If-the-coach-isn-t-going-to-change-you-ve-got-to-change-the-coach
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 27, 2012, 08:29:28 am
Peppers has been playing on a bad foot almost all season. He's been on a bit of a resurgance of late but not sure if that's cause he's getting healthier or just not facing as good of competition.  I do know that both of the Cardinals starting OTs are mid-round rookies so you would have expected him to make some hay against those guys, and he did.

The DE who should really be questioned on the NFC side IMO is Jason Pierre-Paul.  Only 6 or 7 sacks on the season for him IIRC.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on December 27, 2012, 08:47:56 am
Pierre Paul still collapses the pocket as does Peppers which limits what the offense can do.

It's Ed McCaskey who makes the final decisions for the Bears not Virginia.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 27, 2012, 08:49:12 am
isn't Melton about to become a FA? He is likely to bring some big $$$.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 27, 2012, 11:30:19 am
It was mentioned earlier that in Lovie's defense we had a lot of injuries. All teams have a lot of injuries. Let's look at the Packers, no run game, Woodson, Mathews, Jordy Nelson and others. Lovie Smith's best trait is he's an all around decent guy, that doesn't necessarily translate to a good Head coach. I really don't recall his Rams D being all that, it was the O that carried that team..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 27, 2012, 11:50:27 am
The injuries thing as an excuse for Lovie absolutely doesn't play with me, either.

There are teams already locked in to the playoffs who had just as many injuries as we've had (or more), and just kept going. That team up north with the G on their helmets being one of them.   

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 27, 2012, 12:37:41 pm
No injury excuses....others pick their play up when someone goes down, we're the exact opposite...the play drops significantly, usually....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 27, 2012, 12:52:37 pm
No injury excuses....others pick their play up when someone goes down, we're the exact opposite...the play drops significantly, usually....

That's cause our coaches (especially on offense) can't develop young talent worth a damn, and our schemes (especially on D) are too demanding for anything but Pro Bowl caliber players to execute.

We've seen what happens when Cutler and Jennings don't play, we've seen how our OL went from barely average to non-functional after Louis went down, and we all know how ugly things would get if Marshall, Peppers or Briggs went down.  Other teams lose their QB or #1 WR or a starting O-Lineman, DE or LB and yeah, it hurts them but they still keep playing competitively if not even winning games outright. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on December 27, 2012, 01:17:00 pm
No injury excuses....others pick their play up when someone goes down, we're the exact opposite...the play drops significantly, usually....

That's cause our coaches (especially on offense) can't develop young talent worth a damn, and our schemes (especially on D) are too demanding for anything but Pro Bowl caliber players to execute.

We've seen what happens when Cutler and Jennings don't play, we've seen how our OL went from barely average to non-functional after Louis went down, and we all know how ugly things would get if Marshall, Peppers or Briggs went down.  Other teams lose their QB or #1 WR or a starting O-Lineman, DE or LB and yeah, it hurts them but they still keep playing competitively if not even winning games outright. 

Exactly what I've been saying.  In general, this staff cannot develop 2nd tier-talent enough to provide the kind of depth needed to survive when a starter goes down.  Not every player is a 1st round pick, but lower-round players can be coached up if your Coaches have the talent to do it.  I don't think that will change without regime change, playoffs or not.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 27, 2012, 01:25:08 pm
The only unit of the Bears with any depth at all is our DL.  Props to Marinelli and our DL coach for that, especially considering that two of the biggest contributors (Wootten and Melton) were 4th round draft picks. LB depth, while nothing special, is adequate too I guess.

But literally every other position on the team, if we lose our #1 at that position we're in big trouble.  It gets even worse on the OL (where at least 4 of our starters are no more than marginal backup caliber AT BEST), and at TE where we have FOUR TEs on the roster and not a single legit starter among them. 

So yeah, we've got pretty major depth issues.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 27, 2012, 06:37:06 pm
Looks like Forte may be good to go Sunday per JimRose of ABC 7
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 27, 2012, 07:29:49 pm

Is poor depth the fault of the coaches or the guy who drafted them, Angelo.

How many Angelo drafted starters on defense?  Briggs, Wooten, Tillman, Conte, Melton and Wright

On offense?  Lance Louis, Kellen Davis, Forte, Webb, Gabe Carimi (who might not be starting this week if Scott is healthy)

11/22 drafted by Angelo....1 starter by Emery...the rest were FAs and trades

How many of the guys that Angelo drafted that the Bears released made names for themselves on other teams?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 27, 2012, 08:04:36 pm

 The fact that as a team that went 7-1 and then faltered still has a chance is amazing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 27, 2012, 08:35:42 pm
No.  I find it amazing that a team that started out 7-2 is on the verge of missing the playoffs.  I find that ridiculous!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 27, 2012, 09:40:31 pm

Not so amazing considering the competition - all playoff teams.  Bears just don't have a consistent and potent offense to play with the big boys.

And the defense is not without fault - not many big plays from them during that stretch either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 27, 2012, 09:57:48 pm
Yup... After the D quit collecting turnovers the wins dried up too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 28, 2012, 12:38:03 am
Well I recall reading the Bears will have the NFC East & the AFC Central on the schedule next year.  Emery will have his hands full this offseason because if he for some reason retain Lovie this may be his waterloo with this schedule.

Hell the same may be the case for Emery too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 07:45:05 am
Well I recall reading the Bears will have the NFC East & the AFC Central on the schedule next year.

The Redskins and the Bengals would concern me the most out of those teams.  Two young teams with loads of talent and strong lines (O and D), who have built a nice foundation throughout the year. I would expect the Giants to come back with a better season next year as well, and maybe even the Eagles who badly underperformed their talent this year and need a coaching/culture change to get back on track more than anything else.

Outside of the Bengals, the AFC Central doesn't worry me that much. The Ravens are a lot like the Bears, the Steelers are in decline and the Browns are taking baby steps talent-wise but are still a long ways away. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 28, 2012, 08:13:58 am
In my opinion the Bears are a long ways away too
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 09:03:35 am
The Bears are obviously quite a bit farther away than most of us thought heading into the season. No argument there.

A killer draft and two or three solid FA acquisitions to upgrade OL and TE and add speed at WR -- plus some coaching shakeups -- MIGHT get us within shouting distance of the Packers in 2013. Getting up to the level of the Falcons, Niners or Seahawks will be more like a 2-year deal and could be much longer than that if Cutler totally flames-out next year and Emery decides to go another direction at QB. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 28, 2012, 10:34:46 am
Given Emery's first draft as an indicator, I'm not thrilled with the prospect of next years draft. How many more DL's this time? Safeties? people hurt in college? How many O linman drafted before the 7th round? Not thrilled at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 10:37:11 am
I'm gonna make a bold prediction that for the first time in forever, we stay completely away from DL in the draft.

I know it's almost impossible to fathom and it's more likely if Lovie is launched than if he stays, but even if Lovie is still around come draft day I'm gonna trust Emery to realize we're actually pretty set at that position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 28, 2012, 11:06:52 am
I can't say I trust Emery at all, he really hasn't shown me anything to make that assumption. Honestly, I'm not sure we're set at any position. O line is a must, but if a killer DE is sitting for the taking, I don't see how we pass that up..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 11:08:50 am
The only way I can possibly see us taking a D-Lineman is if Emery launches the entire coaching staff and our new DC is married to the 3-4.

In which case we'll need a true NT (i.e., 325 lbs +) and that would be the pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 28, 2012, 11:14:47 am
Definately don't trust Emery. IMO he blew his first draft badly......Jeffrey is still a question mark, same with McClellin, the safety was a terrible pick, don't even recall his other picks they're that impressive. Rodriguez? Another wasted pick as was whosit and whatsit after him....terrible draft....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 11:16:55 am
I can totally understand the skepticism toward Emery given the lack of impact from our 2012 draft class, the whiff on Jason Campbell and the paltry moves with regard to our OL situation.   

That being said...  he was hired at the end of January which gave him not even 3 months to prepare for his first draft, and by his own admission he did not have the time to implement a lot of the evaluation processes and systems he learned from the Patriots (and which served him quite well assessing talent for the Chiefs and Falcons). Basically he was saddled with the same scouts and SOP Angelo used and we know how Angelo's drafts turned out.   

Emery has now had the benefit of seeing this team up close for a full season, and will have his first full offseason to run things his way... so let's see how that turns out.  Not saying he's gonna be the next Ted Thompson but he's certainly a lot more than Angelo 2.0.

I also have to think that, all public statements to the contrary, our 2012 draft was NOT made with a Lovie future in mind. McClellin, Hardin, and possibly even E-Rod were drafted for whatever coaches are coming in here next.  Which would explain why they were so quick to redshirt Hardin, and why E-Rod was never really able to find a place in the O this year.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 28, 2012, 11:18:00 am
This team needs a dependable TE. Davis has been a huge disappointment..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 11:19:30 am
I expect Kellen Davis to be one of the first Bears let go this offseason.  Hope for his sake that he's renting... and if not, that he's got a good realtor lined up.

IIRC the Cowboys kicked the tires on him last offseason but given what he did (or didn't do) this year I have to assume the market for his services is gonna be mighty slim.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 28, 2012, 01:50:49 pm
We definitely need an upgrade at TE. I was a big Davis fan. i thought he could blossom this year. He has been a major disappointment. My problem is we need a TE that is more than a receiver. We also need a TE that can block. INOW we need a complete TE, not just a TE that is one dimentional.  We've had both types of TEs, the blockers and the pass catchers that cant block. I'd rather pass on any TE if he cant do both things.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 01:59:54 pm
Spaeth is a pretty decent combination of blocker and pass catcher (especially in the red zone), he's just not athletic enough to be a game changing mismatch machine along the lines of Gronk, Jimmie Graham, etc.  Or even the TEs the Vikings and Lions have. 

IMO Spaeth is worth keeping around as our #2 but we need a primetime player as our starter at the position.  Could be a draft pick, could be FA...  gotta get one somewhere though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 28, 2012, 02:02:24 pm
I've seen Eifert a couple of times. He seems pretty good
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 28, 2012, 06:48:50 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/sean-payton-agrees-to-multi-year-contract-with-saints/

Well there went my first choice for our new head coach.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 28, 2012, 07:06:18 pm
Bet its a lot more money per year than we would pay. Its why the Bears never hire former HCs. They hire coordinators
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 07:53:46 pm
Yup. Dollars to donuts our next HC will be a former OC who will be learning on the job.

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it don't.

The problem with those situations is that oftentimes those guys don't have the juice to pull the top veteran assistants so then the whole staff is basically learning on the job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on December 28, 2012, 07:55:23 pm
How many former head coaches have won a superbowl with a second team?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on December 28, 2012, 08:03:38 pm
Belichick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 28, 2012, 08:05:58 pm
The guy in Indy would be my first choice. Course, he's everybodies first chioce I'm sure. As far as superbowl, I thought Don Shula did, but google says no. nobody has.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 28, 2012, 08:17:31 pm
If Reid would be willing to be an OC I would take him in a heart beat and would even be willing to let Lovie stay and finish his contract under that circumstance.

Then if the offense takes off make Reid your HC.

I would not go for Reid for HC now because I think the guys needs to decompress a bit.  Other then that the only other choice really is Gruden.  I do not see any OC just tearing up the league that is not just a offensive minded HC puppet.

I am betting Lovie will be retained for one more year.  Just a feeling I got after watching the Chicago Sports shows today.

They put up a stat that said in various polls 58% of Bears fans want them to miss the playoffs so Lovie gets fired.   

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 28, 2012, 08:34:50 pm
Andy Reid gets QBs killed, and hates to run. He's not much better than Martz jn that regard. No thanks.

As for Lovie the only way I'm OK with him back for another year is if Emery -- not Lovie -- picks the new OC.

We've wasted enough of Cutlers best years with incompetent OCs -- next one needs to be chosen by someone who knows what the hell to look for.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 28, 2012, 08:48:25 pm
If Lovie stays it is lose/lose situation.  He has 1 year left, he isnt going to get any OC worth his salt.  I DO NOT want to extend Lovie, under any circumstances that dont include winning the SB this year.  If Emery picks the next OC that is even worse.  That guy will be in a no win situation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 28, 2012, 08:55:30 pm
Agreed. I also think Bates is elevated to OC because they cant get anybody else to be OC under a lameduck HC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 28, 2012, 08:59:29 pm
And then we are in the same stinky situation we are in now.  Puke.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 28, 2012, 09:54:27 pm
Correct. And its not that we havent said this before, but the only way there is real change is if Lovie is jettisoned. And just like the last time nobody would take the OC job and we ended up with Martz. The same conditions prevail and Lovie will have the power to hire whoever he wants for OC because he has the power of hiring assistant coaches. Being a lameduck coach no quality OC will take the job because there is no job security. Its a one year gig and thats it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on December 28, 2012, 10:42:09 pm

 My problem is I dont know whos OUT THERE in the draft ...

 what , is there like some kind of slick at TE that I dont know about ?

 Is there at least THREE OL that we shouldnt be drafting ?

 Do we need about 3 more draft picks at ST that dont perform in their regular roles ?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 29, 2012, 11:56:01 am

Interesting comments about our need for a 'complete' TE and then references to Gronkowski and Jimmie Graham.  Does anyone question Graham's blocking abilities?  No, because he's a quality receiver.  Just like Antonio Gates and many other TEs in the league.   Guys like Witten are the exception.

If you want to improve your blocking upgrade the O-line and then find a TE that can put pressure on defenses.  I'm not saying acquire some prima donna 225 lb TE that doesn't want to get his nails dirty but get someone who is a receiver first and a blocker second.

Right now a guy like Desmond Clark would look great on our team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 29, 2012, 12:02:35 pm
I dont want a return of an Olson type player that couldnt block your mother.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 29, 2012, 12:56:14 pm
Olsen was a bit prissy, but he could catch the ball. Right now that would give Cutler another option..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 29, 2012, 12:57:19 pm
Olsen was not a great blocker but could do the job, just as Des Clark (a converted WR from college) did when he was here - btw Olsen has 65 receptions for 800 yards this year...and leading his team with 5 TDs.

I'd bet all our WRs not named Marshall combined don't have much better numbers than Olsen.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 29, 2012, 01:46:11 pm
Where IS Des Clark? We sure could use the guy about now....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 29, 2012, 06:47:04 pm
Actually I remember Olsen dropping quite a few. And he was worthless after the catch. He doesnt play close to his 40 time and a 200-lb CB can take him down with ease.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 29, 2012, 07:43:26 pm
I don't understand why there is no mention of the Saints OC Peter Carmichael.
He has been there for 4 years and their O outside of starting slow has done well even with Payton being suspended.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 29, 2012, 07:43:59 pm
Olsen would help us out a bunch right now.  However I do think he was average. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 29, 2012, 08:13:26 pm
Anyone know if Bears is nationally televised game?  Out west skiing wanting to know if I need to skip some slope time to watch the Bears!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 29, 2012, 08:32:07 pm
Hiber-I have to use the ticket to get it here in Tn.  Pack Vikes I think is a national game. Put your wax up, find a sports bar, and drink.  You can Shuss later.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 29, 2012, 09:33:10 pm
46-got the ticket at home in florida.  Haven't missed a game all year.  dilemma....does the misses understand the importance of me routing on the team?  she did go to Titans game 2 hours early and meet Ed McCaskey in the stand...hum.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 29, 2012, 10:06:18 pm
Up here in the northern plains its a Fox NFC North doubleheader.

Bears/Lions at noon and Pack/Vikings late.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: dallasbear on December 30, 2012, 06:17:10 am
Actually I remember Olsen dropping quite a few. And he was worthless after the catch. He doesnt play close to his 40 time and a 200-lb CB can take him down with ease.

What a crock....He probably has never dropped half the number of passes that KDavis dropped this year. 

And Olsen averages over 12 yards a catch which means he's got enough speed to get downfield. 

As for DBs being able to bring him down that's been my point - opposing teams can't just put a LB on him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 30, 2012, 07:01:28 am
Olsen had pretty decent hands, a TON better than what passes as a TE right now. But yea, the wind blew, he went down. That was pretty pathetic. But at least the guy caught most of the stuff thrown his way unlike the mess we currently have....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on December 30, 2012, 08:22:15 am
46-got the ticket at home in florida.  Haven't missed a game all year.  dilemma....does the misses understand the importance of me routing on the team?  she did go to Titans game 2 hours early and meet Ed McCaskey in the stand...hum.

Since you have the ticket, you can watch it from a computer after logging into your account. The game starts at 10am where you are at.  You can be on the slope by 1
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 30, 2012, 01:44:33 pm
Olsen had pretty decent hands, a TON better than what passes as a TE right now. But yea, the wind blew, he went down. That was pretty pathetic. But at least the guy caught most of the stuff thrown his way unlike the mess we currently have....

Even calling Olsen a TE was a misnomer. He was more an extra WR and not a TE. I hate this love Olsen is getting here. Its been going on here for way too long. He was overrated
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 30, 2012, 01:48:30 pm
Believe me, I didn't 'love Olsen', not by a long shot. I hated the fact the guy would barely get touched and go down. He was more of a wideout definately....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 30, 2012, 02:17:36 pm
Game on television.  Came off the slopes to watch this slope...blaaachhhh.  But since I am here I will finish out the game...then back to the slopes!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on December 30, 2012, 07:05:23 pm
My biggest prob with olsen was the fumbles after thhe catch.......
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 30, 2012, 07:40:45 pm

Steve RosenbloomThe RosenBlog
7:29 p.m. CST, December 30, 2012



The Chicago Bears' season is over. Same goes for Lovie Smith’s run as Bears coach. Has to be.
 
Smith has to be fired.
 
Today.

Get on with it. If the Bears are serious about winning the Super Bowl, there’s no other choice.
 
The Bears missed the playoffs this season after starting 7-1. That’s two straight seasons of sitting out because of late-season chokes. That’s five of the last six seasons the Bears have missed the playoffs. That’s enough.
 
After nine years of failing to win the Super Bowl, that absolutely, positively has to be enough of Smith.
 
Not only have Smith’s teams not won the Super Bowl, but one of them lost an NFC Championship game at home.
 
How much more does Phil Emery need to see?
 
On Sunday, the Bears general manager saw a miserable Bears offense, a problem that has dogged Smith for one fired offensive coordinator after another. Even in beating the Lions 26-24 to keep alive their playoffs hopes that the Vikings killed with an upset of Green Bay, the Bears' offense was a whole lot of miserable with several slices of brutal.
 
The Bears' defense and special teams forced four turnovers, and what did the offense do with them? Three stinkin’ field goals and one measly touchdown. Matt Forte was the wise guy who actually got into the end zone.
 
Arguably, the one good drive the Bears mounted was the one that ran out the clock, and naturally, it didn’t result in a touchdown.
 
The offense got into the end zone once in four drives that reached the red zone, and of course the Bears wasted timeouts like they had bonuses clauses.
 
You know what else? Despite forcing three turnovers, Smith’s defense was stung for three 80-yard drives by a Lions team that had to be looking for reasons to quit.
 
It wasn’t as painful as Seattle rookie Russell Wilson’s consecutive drives that shredded the Bears in an overtime loss at home, but it speaks to the age and faltering ability of the side of the ball that Smith knows something about.
 
The defense is getting older and worse, and that was the unit that saved everything. Special teams also did its share to deordorize offensive issues that Smith never got right over the years, but even that unit disappointed this season, starting with the soon-to-be-gone Devin Hester.
 
Blame also needs to be spread to the assistant coaches, but who hired them?
 
The players should get some blame, as well, and maybe they couldn’t reach the playoffs under any coach, but they didn’t reach the playoffs under Smith.
 
Again.
 
How could Emery look at this situation and think it will be all better under Smith when it’s only getting worse?
 
He can’t.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 30, 2012, 07:45:55 pm
If only the final decision belonged to Emery. I dont believe it does.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 30, 2012, 07:50:57 pm

Sunday thoughts on "The Lovie Puzzle"
 December 30, 2012, 12:06 pm

JOHN "MOON" MULLIN


 DETROIT – Coaches universally will say that they don’t cut players; players cut players. To a certain extent, the same can be said about head coaches.
 
They, like the players, make the decisions for their bosses.
 
So a dismal Bears performance against the feckless Detroit Lions theoretically puts Lovie Smith squarely over the trap door with ownership and management. Missing the playoffs five of six years running makes a compelling case against his return for 2013.
 
But here’s a better, sounder resolution:
 
Regardless of outcome in Detroit, Lovie Smith should be the Bears’ coach for 2013.
 
Consider:
 
After his opening year in 2004, Smith has never had a season with fewer than seven wins and only two of those in the past eight. That is a run not to be dismissed lightly. Mike Ditka had two of those (1989, 1992) in his final four.
 
Smith has one year remaining on his contract. There is NFL precedent for a coach, just like a player, going through his so-called “lame duck” year without an extension. Players won’t play for him? Does anyone seriously think this team and its veterans would ever go that route with Smith?
 
Jay Cutler also is in a contract year for 2013. Cutler has shown less than Smith to spur the Bears toward a contract extension. Brian Urlacher played without a 2013 deal this season. So did Nick Roach. So did Henry Melton. And how did Matt Forte perform last season without an extension?
 
The overall is that the soundest strategy for GM Phil Emery, President Ted Phillips and Chairman George McCaskey is to let the 2013 season play out with the head coach, quarterback and even offensive coordinator (Mike Tice) in place.
 
If the group fails to effect a satisfactory turnaround, they won’t have to blow the whole thing up. It blows itself up.
 
And a new head coach comes in with the prospect of picking his own quarterback. If the Bears have a terrible 2013, that draft choice will be high enough to make a move.
 
But to throw the franchise into freefall after a winning season, with a coach who has had just two losing seasons in the past eight just doesn’t make real sense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 30, 2012, 08:09:56 pm
Nope, fire him! And take Tice with. At the VERY LEAST, Tice should be gone or replaced as OC. If they don't make some sound moves, it shows they aren't serious about winning. The Pakers Sherman had a very good record with playoff runs and 12-4 seasons. He goes ONE SEASON at 4-12 and they replace him. ONE. They weren't about to wallow around in the mire with it. They replaced his butt. This is what needs to happen to Lovie. He isn't here to win games and miss playoffs. I don't care if he went 2-14 or 10-6. The facts are he went 7-1 and missed the playoffs. And he lost against every quality team he played minus the Cowboys and that's debateable on quality. Get rid of him....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on December 30, 2012, 08:50:07 pm
Screw  Lovie Smith. Screw the Packers.... if Emery doesn't end this regime the screw Emery.... And if Emery can't pull the trigger then screw Virginia....

Idiot children screwing up what their Elders built.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 30, 2012, 08:51:10 pm
I agree with you. He should be fired, but I dont believe its happening that way. I believe Emery makes his case with the board but Virginia backs Lovie and he stays. Thats what I believe
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 30, 2012, 10:59:16 pm
Lovie, again, won just enough games to last another season.

Dont be waiting for an announcement tomorrow cause it aint happening. You need balls of brass to fire a coach after a 10 win season and no one at Halas Hall has huevos like that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 30, 2012, 11:57:00 pm
Brandon Marshall throws support behind Lovie Smith, Jay Cutler

SEAN JENSEN/Chicago Sun-Times
Sunday, Dec. 30, 2012


If receiver Brandon Marshall gets his way, the Bears won’t make any significant changes, especially at coach and quarterback.

“I’ve had different head coaches, but if it was up to me, I don’t want another coach,” Marshall told the Sun-Times. “I’d run through a brick wall for him, and that’s the same way with every other guy in the locker room.

“Amazing man, amazing coach. We just need to get some things together in certain areas.”

Marshall feels even stronger about Cutler.

“I’m at the point now, there aren’t too many guys who understand my approach to the game. And he makes it easy for me to work,” Marshall said. “We still have a lot to work on, but at the same time, I can’t see myself with anyone else as a quarterback.

“When he retires, I will retire.”

Cutler and Smith have contracts through the 2013 season. The Bears finished this season 10-6, but there has been no clarity on Smith’s ­future after his team squandered a 7-1 start.

Marshall even cast his support for quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates, whom he worked with in Denver, and offensive coordinator Mike Tice.

“You look at the numbers, and it’s obvious I had a great year. But at the end of the day, the numbers are useless because we’re not in the playoffs,” he said. “Offensively, we struggled throughout, so that’s disappointing.

“That’s on all of us. That’s not just on the coaches, it’s on the players. I’m a fan of Jeremy Bates and also coach Tice.”
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 31, 2012, 06:16:12 am
He seriously lost me big time when he mentioned keeping Tice....sorry but that should not happen....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 07:05:36 am
If you like mediocrity then you should love Lovie..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 08:32:24 am
I think it would behoove Emery and the Bears top brass to come out and make some sort of statement regarding Lovie one way or the other TODAY.  Since there has been so much speculation and conjecture the past couple of weeks in particular.

I'm pretty sure Lovie's fate in the wake of all of yesterday's possible outcomes has already been discussed so it's not like they're all huddling in Halas Hall this morning trying to decide what to do with him.

Irregardless of whether he stays or goes there is going to be one faction or another that's pretty unhappy.  Might as well get it out there and let things fall where they may.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: joki13 on December 31, 2012, 08:55:36 am
 It took this organization long enough to determine angelo wasn't good enough,let's hope Emery is a faster learner. Lovie's way over his head. Can't think on his feet,bad game time decisions,doesn't motivate the players to the best of their abilities. He's the players best friend or father figure when at times you need a drill sergeant . I'm really tired of that vacant look when things are going bad.  I want a HC that takes charge and can react quickly and adjust game plans.

 It would be a bad idea bringing him back for another year that would pretty much amount to a lame duck season win or lose. And while you're at it bring in some quality offensive linemen. We're never gonna find out if Cutler is our savior if he's crippled!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on December 31, 2012, 08:56:48 am
I think the longet that statement takes the less likely it is for Lovie to be staying.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 09:00:50 am
I think the longet that statement takes the less likely it is for Lovie to be staying.

Interesting...  I think just the opposite.  I think if they were firing Lovie they'd get that out there ASAP and then move immediately toward getting the new HC and staff in place while the pool is at its largest. 

Unless the plan is to wait like the Bears usually do and pick up the coaches nobody else wanted who will work cheap.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 31, 2012, 09:01:31 am
You nailed it, Joki. The players have said he's a 'players coach'. To me that means he won't demand responsibility or accountability and he won't hold them to a standard of excellence, but let them walk over him. To me, enough of the blank stares. The worse it gets, the more he stares out at the field as if to say 'but we didn't draw it up this way, oh my.' Enough of 'it'll get fixed', because it HASN'T gotten fixed! Forte says 'we'll get it figured out on offense' after 16 games of being unable to. Enough! Things AREN'T getting fixed, every game the same stupid crap keeps happening! Timeouts at the worst time, stupid 20 yard throws on a 3rd and 2, passing 40 times when your RB is gaining 5 yards or more a carry. It's enough already....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 31, 2012, 09:02:29 am
You've forgotton the Bears way...we need to hire the consultant to find our next coach.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on December 31, 2012, 09:05:10 am
Quote
if they were firing Lovie they'd get that out there ASAP and then move immediately toward getting the new HC and staff in place while the pool is at its largest.

That is what normal teams do, ala Philly.  This is the Bears.  They are probably arguing behind closed doors.  Emery wants him gone owners want him here so they don't have to pay.  Fight it out for a couple of day's.  Come up with a plan to let him go nicely.  Think about replacements....

Then after the SB make the announcement that he is gone.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 09:09:34 am
Good points, Wmljohn.

So right now, we've got a Bears team that:

a) will be as low in the draft order as a non-playoff team can be
b) will have a 10-win team's difficulty of schedule next season
c) has desperate needs at multiple positions on the OL, plus TE yet very little cap room for FA action, and
d) potentially, will be retaining most or all of the coaching staff that has failed miserably the last two seasons.

Not a lot for Bears fans to look forward to at this point, I'd say.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 31, 2012, 09:32:10 am
dear God it just hit me.  The Bears have the 21st century version of Wayne Fontes
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ISF on December 31, 2012, 10:12:48 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-chicago-bears-fire-coach-lovie-smith-2012,0,1783180.story?page=1&fb_source=feed_opengraph&ref=feed_open_graph&_ft_=qid.5828138521489790530%3Amf_story_key.-1694316585495063284&action_ref_map=%5B%5D&fb_action_types=og.recommends&action_object_map=%7B%22721121485297%22%3A582199758463808%7D&fb_action_ids=721121485297&action_type_map=%7B%22721121485297%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&refid=7
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 10:20:16 am
The Bears pick 20 in the draft.  Sigh.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 10:21:58 am
Wow.

Guess George McCaskey really was serious.

And Emery suddenly has a whole lot more power.

Can't say I expected this at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 10:25:07 am
I'm in shock.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 31, 2012, 10:28:46 am
I just hope we don't end up with a crew worse than the one that is on their way out.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 10:30:07 am
Next year is going to be a very good year, no matter what.  Just think, no more blank stares from the sidelines next year....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 10:33:50 am
I wouldnt go that far. And I worry about the next DC going to a 3-4. Rivera back as DC? We dont have the personell to run 3-4
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 31, 2012, 10:35:09 am
I'm simply flabbergasted.  Shot his butt right out of the saddle. BANG!  Obviously a change in management of the Bears is in place.  As said above, lets hope the new is better than the old.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 31, 2012, 10:35:15 am
Let's wait and see who gets picked before freaking out, lol....at least we've got some good news for a change. Things will DEFINATLEY be different!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 10:37:29 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/31/bears-ask-for-permission-to-interview-mike-mccoy/

GOOD choice to start with!

Not sure they can actually talk to him till after Denver's playoff run is done, though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: EightyTwo on December 31, 2012, 10:40:02 am
Finally!  Good riddance!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 10:40:19 am
Agreed. And I was thinking about Clements too. I am sure there will be other candidates
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 10:41:24 am
Interesting how some pundits are saying Cutler, Marshall and a veteran D make Chicago a prime gig and others are saying the Bears are gonna have trouble pulling top candidates for the exact same reason. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 10:42:31 am
The trouble with waiting till the superbowl to talk to candidates hurts you
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 10:43:47 am
I just hope the new HC has the ability to think on his feet AND has the ability to coach offense/get the most out of them.  That is what I like about Pete Carrol. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ISF on December 31, 2012, 10:43:49 am
Would like to see Marinelli stay. Defense works well, no reason for immediate overhaul. Could mean the end of Urlacher though. Have to start somewhere, and that's a large chunk of salary.

IMO, HC with offense experience is required. Chip Kelly, the Gruden boys and Andy Reid would be on my short list. Reid might be the best fit if we're looking at the short window. If it's a roster revamp, I'd be more inclined to let Kelly work with Emery to build from scratch.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 31, 2012, 10:44:43 am
I think that the teams that have a bye can allow their coaches to interview during the extra week.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: 46 on December 31, 2012, 10:45:01 am
The 46 is simply in shock. AND they talking to oc for hc.  The last one was...Mike Ditka wasn't it?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 10:47:51 am
Keeping Bates and Marinelli in their current positions and replacing the rest of the staff would be unconventional but might be the best way to smooth the transition with our many veterans.

Not sure that's what will be happening though.  The fact that they've already got potential replacement candidates on the line is unprecedented speed for the Bears organization, and it has the feel of the new McCaskey and Emery carving a swath wide and deep.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 10:52:12 am
The Lovie Smith firing: A decision made for obvious reasons
 December 31, 2012, 9:58 am

JOHN "MOON" MULLIN

Lovie Smith went into the 2012 season in need of a rebound from the franchise disappointment of 2011 that saw a 7-3 start crumble into an 8-8 year. What he and the Bears got was an even more catastrophic collapse, from 7-1 and the No. 2 spot in a playoff lineup to out of the playoffs at 10-6.

The result was the end to a nine-year run that included only one trip to a Super Bowl, another to an NFC Championship game and one other to the playoffs and only one year with fewer than seven wins.

But evaluations by organizations are based less on the past than on perceptions of where the future is leading. Several reasons lay at the root of the Bears’ decision to close the Lovie Smith epoch and go in the proverbial “another direction:”

Simple need for change of direction

George McCaskey succeeded brother Michael as chairman of the board prior to the 2011 season. The transition was seamless, orderly and in the natural organizational order. Michael had held the job since the death of his father Ed and he was ready to cede the office while remaining on the board of directors.

The course of the 2011 season was such that Jerry Angelo was fired after the collapse from 7-3 to 8-8. Ted Phillips remained as president but the organization was clearly not satisfied with what had occurred on the field. Key in the decision was the conclusion that the Bears were losing ground rather than gaining on the Green Bay Packers and (at the time) Detroit Lions.

The season-turning injuries to Jay Cutler and Matt Forte factored into Smith keeping his job, and the blame was assigned to Angelo for failing to sufficiently shore up the roster.

Fast forward to 2012 and another two inept performances against Green Bay and one against the Minnesota Vikings, the new upstarts in the NFC.

Failures on offense

Since Mike Ditka left after 1992, the Bears have had three consecutive coaches from defensive backgrounds: Dave Wannstedt, defensive coordinator in Dallas; Dick Jauron, Jacksonville defensive coordinator, and Smith, coordinator of the St. Louis defense.

Smith has been by far the most successful. But even for him the result has been just one losing trip to a Super Bowl, one other to a loss (to Green Bay) in the 2010 NFC Championship game, and a first-round loss in the 2005 divisional round.

The biggest single reason was Smith’s problems finding an offensive coordinator, or at least recently one who could co-exist with Cutler. The offense never ranked higher than 15th in yardage in Smith’s tenure.

More to the immediate situation, the offense got worse despite the efforts of Phil Emery to supply the wide-receiver firepower that Jay Cutler supposedly needed. Emery mortgaged a piece of the future by giving up two third-round picks for Brandon Marshall and used a second-rounder in 2012 for Alshon Jeffery.

Yet the offense degenerated into the Cutler-Marshall show and closed out of town.

The revolving college of coordinators on offense accelerated with the 1009 arrival of Cutler – Ron Turner out after 2009, Mike Martz after 2011, Mike Tice one-and-done in 2012. The franchise’s commitment to Cutler remains to be seen this offseason but in a league that tilts toward facilitating offense, the Smith Bears have failed.

Big-game failures

Smith achieved a 3-3 record in the postseason. Since the 2006 trip to the Super Bowl he was 1-1, both in the 2010 playoffs.

That is a better mark than Mike Ditka in his post-Super Bowl XX time. Ditka was 2-5 with three first-game eliminations and was fired in after a 5-11 meltdown in 1992.

But Smith’s time is marred by a handful of bad defeats with the playoffs at stake.

The Bears fell to the Houston Texans (7-8 at the time) in the final game of 2008 when a win would have had them in the playoffs. And while the Minnesota Vikings might still have beaten the Green Bay Packers to squeeze past the Bears into the 2012 playoffs, Smith’s team failed to beat a doormat in the Detroit Lions (4-11) when it mattered.

The Detroit game mattered because the Bears’ defense, Smith’s signature unit, failed to halt two long touchdown drives to lose the Seattle game. That was followed by losses at Minnesota and to Green Bay at home when either would have allowed the Bears to keep control of their own playoff future
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 10:53:14 am
I am positive Lovie will be hired by another team, I'm just not sure it will be as a HC.  His record against winning teams is abysmal and positions him as somewhat of a "bridge" guy who can turn a team around to a certain point but can't get them all the way.  Not sure how many GMs are looking for that kind of guy.

He may need to approach it like Norv Turner and be open to a DC gig if he wants to stay in the league.  Probably some colleges down south that would take him as a HC though.  Wasn't he linked to Tennessee (the U not the Titans) a year or two ago and they need to get that program turned around badly. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 10:57:15 am
In retrospect, Lovie saying that the last loss to Green Bay wasn't a "big game" may have sealed the deal.  When a HC continually puts across that no games are more important than others, it shouldn't be surprising when their players fail to rise to the challenge.

If George really was intent on going all-in he would dismiss that dolt Ted Phillips as well.  Then we could really start getting some things done.  Hopefully if he doesn't fire Phillips he'll at least keep him out of Emery's way.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 10:58:13 am
I think Lovie will be limited for a DC job in the NFL because he is a cover 2, 4-3 guy. Thats not what the majority of the league use
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 11:03:21 am
I wonder who the Bears will interview to fulfill the Rooney rule?

I think Rivera would qualify even though I in no way want him to be the actual hire.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: JBN on December 31, 2012, 11:04:01 am
Mike McCy frm Denver is tops f the list right now. He's the OC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 31, 2012, 11:07:09 am
Well Lovie is gone now.  A change was needed.  Got to give him props though.  He took us to a Super Bowl where clowns like Dave Bumsted & Dick Jawrong took us to crap.

The next guy who should be put on notice is JAY CUTLER!  Tired of the bad QB play against the top teams in the league and his INT's at crucial times.  He sees his HC gone and maybe that may put a fire up under him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 11:10:06 am
Emery's work begins as season ends
 December 30, 2012, 10:38 pm

MARK STROTMAN

As the Bears' season came to a close following the Vikings' 37-34 win over the Packers, general manager Phil Emery's busiest part of the season had just begun.

With free agency and early preparation for the NFL Draft on the horizon of the Bears' offseason, Emery and his group of scouts and fellow front office personnel will attempt to address Chicago's weaknesses from 2012 and improve on them

"You're looking to see the guys that have that sudden dynamic athletic quality to change games, change momentum," Emery told Jeff Joniak on WBBM News Radio 780 before today's game, "and do it from their play and the type of person they are."

A season's worth of scouting collegiate athletes both live and on film, the Bears' scouts will soon meet with Emery to discuss their findings and where they believe a certain player can help the team.

"For me it's a very good period of time because it allows me to spend time with our scouts. It serves so many purposes; the December meeting for us in our system is extremely important," Emery said. "It's a time that we pull all the information together and give each individual scout their opportunity to talk about the best players in their area at positions."

Emery and his staff will look for the best players through an array of tests to sort talent out, but the main factor will be comparing said players to current Bears.

"We work through the board, we work through each and every play at a certain grade level and above and how they can help the Bears," he said. "And the key part of our meeting and the way we structure it is every player is judged on one thing: Is he better or worse than the player that we have at his position, at the level that we grade the player?

"So is a starting corner better or worse than Charles Tillman? Is a starting [defensive] tackle better or worse than Henry Melton? So everyone is judged with that standard.

 And a scout has to stand up and have valid reasons based on his evaluation to make that decision, to talk through why that person is better or worse for the Bears. You always want to go into draft day feeling like you're drafting guys who make you better," he added.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 11:11:42 am
I agree that Jay Cutler is now officially on notice. Dumping Lovie (and presumably Tice), and what I assume will be an aggressive offseason of upgrading OL and TE should pretty much take away all the remaining excuses if he doesn't step up and step up big.

I could see Emery not extending him till the middle of next season at the soonest.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 11:13:32 am
Emery and his staff will look for the best players through an array of tests to sort talent out, but the main factor will be comparing said players to current Bears.

Every single O-Lineman on the Bears just got shivers reading this.  Or should have, anyway.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 11:14:50 am
Now I question that assessment. Depends on who they bring in as DC. No way can we change over to a 3-4 without a hog in the middle and thats going to require a 1st round draft pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 11:17:40 am
Mike McCoy frm Denver is tops f the list right now. He's the OC.

McCoy is the guy who last year figured out an offense that made Tim Tebow look like an actual legit QB.  And did it in the course of a couple of games, not seasons. And then turned right around this year and put a whole new offense together for Peyton Manning.

That tells me this guy is an ace at tailoring an offense to the talents of a wide range of QBs, and can get that offense up and running fast.  That makes him tremendously appealing given our difficulties the last couple of years and I can totally see why he was Emery's first call.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 31, 2012, 11:20:47 am
Glad Lovie is gone!

Now hire a good offensive minded coach.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 31, 2012, 11:21:10 am
Lovie Smith out after 9 seasons as Bears coach

Dan Pompei/Chicago Tribune
December 31, 2012


The epitaph for Lovie Smith's tenure as head coach of the Bears could read, "He couldn't fix the offense."

For all the good things Smith did in his nine years in Chicago, his undoing was his inability to take care of the side of the ball in which he had no background.

The Bears fired Smith on Monday after a 10-6 season, Tribune sources have confirmed. They started 7-1 but fell apart down the stretch, mostly because they couldn't score.

Since Smith took over in 2004, the Bears have ranked higher than 23rd in offense only once. They have ranked 28th or lower four times.

Smith tried four offensive coordinators during his Bears career. His first thought was to run a similar offense to the one he was familiar with when he was defensive coordinator of the Rams, so he hired Terry Shea.

The Bears finished last in the league in offense behind quarterbacks Chad Hutchinson, Craig Krenzel, Jonathan Quinn and Rex Grossman, and Shea was dismissed after one season.

Smith then turned to Ron Turner for his second stint as Bears offensive coordinator. Turner lasted five years in what was the heyday for Smith's offense.

It was during this period that Smith's stubborn allegiance to Grossman became an issue. "Rex is our quarterback," he said over and over again.

Those days Smith often talked frequently about how the Bears "get off the bus running," and the team achieved its offensive identity by pounding the ball with Thomas Jones, then Cedric Benson and finally Matt Forte.

But after the Bears traded for Jay Cutler in 2009 and they still finished 23rd in offense and missed the playoffs, Turner was made the scapegoat and fired.

An extensive job search that included interest in Jeremy Bates, Rob Chudzinski and Tom Clements led the Bears back to Smith's old friend Mike Martz, for whom he had worked in St. Louis. Going from the conservative Turner to the aggressive Martz was quite a philosophical shift for Smith.

Martz's offense sputtered in 2010 but started to come on the next season. Then Cutler broke his thumb in the 10th game, and the team unraveled. The Bears lost five straight, and Martz was fired along with general manager Jerry Angelo, the man who brought Smith to Chicago.

Smith's next move was to go conservative again, this time by promoting offensive line coach Mike Tice. A first-time play caller, Tice made great use of new acquisition Brandon Marshall but struggled to find other reliable targets or to overcome protection issues.

The Bears finished 28th in offense.

The only time Smith enjoyed a fairly efficient offense was in 2006, when the offense ranked 15th in a season that ended in the Super Bowl.

Defensively, the Bears were on the other end of the spectrum under Smith. With perennial Pro Bowlers Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs as the constants, Smith's defenses usually were among the best in the NFL.

Since 2004, the Bears defense ranks first in the league in takeaways, three-and-out drives forced and third-down percentage and is fourth in scoring defense.

Smith's defenders scored 34 touchdowns, which became a signature of the Bears' style of play.

It was Smith's defense that drove the Bears to their first Super Bowl appearance in 21 years after the 2006 season. Smith and Tony Dungy became the first two African-Americans to coach a Super Bowl team as the Bears took on the Colts.  (For Pekin & Sportster)

In Super Bowl XLI, Devin Hester scored on a 92-yard return of the opening kickoff, and safety Chris Harris intercepted Peyton Manning on the Colts' opening drive. But after that it was all Colts, with the enduring memory of the game being Kelvin Hayden's interception of Grossman and 56-yard return for a touchdown.

After the Super Bowl, the Bears appeared set up to be strong contenders for a while. But they failed to reach the playoffs the next three seasons and have made only one postseason appearance in the six seasons since.

During the 2006 season, Smith was the NFL's lowest-paid coach with a salary of $1.35 million. With his success came more power, and he used that to get a new four-year contract worth $5.5 million per season.

He also replaced popular defensive coordinator Ron Rivera with linebackers coach Bob Babich, a controversial move.

"You should trust me as the head football coach to put us in the best position to win games," he said at the time.

Babich lasted two years as coordinator before Smith took over the coordinating duties for a year. In 2010, after being rebuffed by Perry Fewell, Smith promoted defensive line coach Rod Marinelli, who was his first choice for the job when he took over in 2004.

On the day he was hired, Smith said: "The No. 1 goal is to beat Green Bay. One of the first things [then-Chairman] Michael McCaskey said to me, he gave me the history behind the Green Bay-Chicago rivalry and the number of times he wanted us to beat them. I understand that. I feel the pain."

Smith repeated his No. 1 goal many times during his tenure, but he was not able to achieve it often enough. After winning seven of his first 10 games against the Packers, Smith lost eight of his next nine, including the NFC championship game in January 2011 at Soldier Field. The Packers went on to win the Super Bowl.

Smith's teams won the NFC North three times in nine years, but over the same period the Packers won the division six times. Smith was named NFL coach of the year in 2005, when he led the Bears to an NFC North title in his second year.

Smith won 81 games in his Bears career, placing him third in franchise history behind George Halas and Mike Ditka. He finished his tenure 18 games above .500.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 31, 2012, 11:22:37 am
Having a guy like Clady as your LT can make a lot of OCs look better.
I expect if we had Clady as our LT we would be in the playoffs this year and Lovie would be getting an extension.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 11:30:37 am
Ryan Clady has been playing for McCoy in Denver so he already knows the scheme.

Depending on how McCoy and Clady get along, if we could hire McCoy as HC and he could help bring Clady over in FA that could be a huge package deal.  Not just a veteran Pro Bowl LT, but one that's already up to speed on the scheme AND has played with Cutler before. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 31, 2012, 11:40:37 am
I like Tony Dungy. Very nice guy. (for Phil)

I do believe the Broncos are a few games short of winning the Super Bowl. They'll be the Champs this year. It'll end up being SF and Denver with Denver taking it all. Good SB too....

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 31, 2012, 11:41:40 am
I like Tony Dungy. Very nice guy. (for Phil)



Lying again......
Title: Hester quitting?
Post by: JBN on December 31, 2012, 11:45:12 am
Jeff Dickerson @ESPNChiBears

Devin Hester just told us he's not sure if he's going to continue playing in the NFL. #Bears
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 31, 2012, 11:45:34 am
Nope.....sorry to disappoint ya there Phil....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 11:46:50 am
Just like you like Mike Tice Phill.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 31, 2012, 11:49:58 am
I hope the team doesn't consider Norv Turner as OC.   I think his days in Dallas has some folks believing he can do the same here.  Turner had Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin (can't think of that WR that was on the other side of him for the life of me), Moose at TE, Troy Aikman, and a hell of a line.

He hasn't turned the world around after leaving Dallas.   Get a fresh face in here.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: JBN on December 31, 2012, 11:51:20 am
No to Norv. His brother was bad enough the second time around.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 11:58:44 am
I think there's too much of a backstory with Norv for him to be considered in Chicago.

#1 the history with his brother, and #2 the fact he coached Philip Rivers, who Cutler despises.

Plus it would appear Emery wants to get younger -- much younger -- at the HC position and to have a guy Norv's age answering to someone possibly in their early 40s... I just don't see it happening.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: JBN on December 31, 2012, 11:59:57 am
Emotional #Bears WR Devin Hester: "I have my workers’ comp papers in my pocket. See how I feel ....

.... "go home and talk to my wife, my family," Hester said. "See where we go from there. I’ve got two beautiful kids, man, young. Two boys. A lot of stress has been on my mind lately."

WHAT HAS BEEN THE MOST DIFFICULT THING?

DH: "Not being able to showcase my talent the way I want it to be showcased. Stressful."

COULD CHANGE OF SCENERY BE GOOD FOR YOU?

DH: "Who knows. If it’s the right place. If not, I feel like I have done enough in the league where I established myself to be one of the elite players ever to play the game. God blessed me for seven years. The average years of an NFL player is about three. I made some accomplishments on my own, some goals I reached. Some more goals are out there I still felt I could achieve." 5 minutes ago
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 12:02:50 pm
Hester is p*ssed at the wrong thing.

What he really should be p*ssed at is how Lovie's inability to stop the Colts offense squandered his return TD in the only SuperBowl he got to.

The old guard of players is going to be very unhappy, obviously.  Hester, Urlacher, the older defensive guys.

Marshall, Cutler, etc. will say the right things but I have to think they're considerably less disappointed.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 12:04:00 pm
It sounds like he is saying he doesnt want to become the fulltime KR. He still considers himself an NFL WR which he isnt.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 12:06:29 pm
Maybe Hester is mad at Emery and figures if he retires, then Emery can't trade him...  though I don't know how much he'd bring in trade these days anyway.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 12:16:17 pm
Here's what you really have to look at here.

This year we lost to the Niners, lost to the Texans and got swept by the Pack.

The Vikings -- who "stole" our spot -- beat the Niners, beat the Texans, and split with the Pack.

Now, is anyone going to try to argue that man-for-man the Vikings had more talent than the Bears did this season?  That is a very difficult argument to make IMO. The standout talent that took the field for the Vikings yesterday basically comes down to 1) an all-world RB; 2)a very good rookie LT;  3) a standout rookie S (Harrison Smith) who I fear will cause us trouble for years to come and 4) two decent pass rushers (Allen and Griffen).  Beyond those 5 players that was strictly a collection of journeymen out there on both sides of the ball for the Vikes yesterday. Which means it comes down to the coaching.

Of course the Bears have glaring talent deficiencies at OL and TE.  That's been obvious all year and I do believe it will be addressed as aggressively as our draft position and salary cap limitations allow.  That being said, even with an(other) infusion of offensive talent Lovie was not going to maximize the talent on this roster.  That, I believe, is what George McCaskey and Emery saw more than anything and why today's decision was made.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 31, 2012, 12:19:06 pm
I'm sure if the Vikes had Forte instead of Peterson they would be very stagnant offensively where the Bears would've flourished because they wouldn't have to rely heavily on Cutler to carry the team.

That's just an opinion but the Bears did the right thing.  Fire them all and get some new blood in here and let's see how it goes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 12:24:24 pm
Forte underperformed his talent (and contract) pretty significantly this year and I think that was a combination of 1) injuries, 2) the OL and 3) bad gameplanning / playcalling. 

Emery presumably will fix the OL and the OC.  For Forte's part he needs to get healthy this offseason, come into camp much stronger than he was this year and be ready to do work for the new staff.

I have a feeling he will have an opportunity to be a Pro Bowler in our new offense but he'll have to somehow find a way to keep himself healthy in order to take advantage of it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 31, 2012, 12:28:18 pm
Forte is a good but not elite RB. He can be a valuable piece but not the centerpiece of a successful offense. We overpaid for what he brings.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 12:49:10 pm
Glad to hear Lovie's gone. Time to move on.. I said yesterday, you don't bring in a new GM to saddle him with the old coach, makes no sense.. I'm not concerned about "hope the new guy isn't worse".. Worse than what? Mediocrity?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 12:50:35 pm
Very curious to know if Emery has any plans to keep any of the current staff, specifically Bates, Marinelli and/or Toub.

Based on this past year he knows what it's like to "inherit" guys you didn't choose so I wonder if he's going to subject our new HC to the same situation or if it truly will be a clean sweep from top to bottom.  I know that Toub and Marinelli in particular are highly regarded across the league but that doesn't necessarily mean the new HC will want to work with them. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 31, 2012, 12:50:57 pm
It could be worse than mediocrity if they don't make the right hire.   I think yapper said Mike McCoy is the leading candidate.  I think that would be a good hire.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 31, 2012, 12:55:47 pm
Ditka: Firing Lovie a bad move by Bears


http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4681702/ditka-firing-lovie-a-bad-move-by-bears
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 12:57:35 pm
Is there any connection between Emery and McCoy? Did McCoy ever work for the same organization while Emery was there? I tried to find out but couldnt find anything.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 12:57:54 pm
I suspect the rest of the Bears coaching staff may wind up twisting in the wind for awhile.   

In fact, their fates may not be known until the new HC is announced and has decided which (if any) of the current staff he wants to keep.

Our WR coach, our RBs coach and the OL coach are patently awful and I don't see any way they survive.  Guys like Marinelli, Toub and possibly Bates may have a slim chance based on their rep and rapport with the current players.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on December 31, 2012, 12:58:52 pm
They all need to go.  Start fresh.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 12:59:43 pm
According to Wikipedia, McCoy's entire NFL resume consists of the Panthers and the Broncos.

So no I don't think he and Emery have any prior connection.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 12:59:55 pm
It could be worse than mediocrity if they don't make the right hire.   I think yapper said Mike McCoy is the leading candidate.  I think that would be a good hire.

Lovie wasn't a bad coach, but he wasn't an elite coach. I never felt we had the advantage in regards to our coaches. Too easy to keep kicking the can down the road with a middle of the road guy. Crappy coach, fire him and move on.. I'm just not concerned about them hiring a crappy coach. I mean, what could happen, we don't win the superbowl, or we lose to our arch rivals while letting them win the division (in our house), or better yet, they win the NFC in our house, or we miss the playoffs 5 out of 6 years?

I'm doing no hand wringing over the next coach being worse than Lovie. We all agree, it was time..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ISF on December 31, 2012, 01:01:13 pm
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_22287613/broncos-mike-mccoy-draws-interest-from-chicago-about


Not sure I like the idea. I could make a Peyton Manning-led offense look good. If that's what we're interested in, Jim Caldwell is available.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 01:01:57 pm
And I agree.. They all need to go..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 01:02:32 pm
"If Minnesota would have lost last night and the Bears were in the playoffs this wouldn't have happened. That's a fact."

I dont know about that. It appears their mind was made up even before the game. I think the decision was made in the purported meeting between Lovie and Emery in Minny before the game.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 01:07:06 pm
Quite frankly, the Bears of the last few years have been stuck in a time warp.  They need a new identity, and that starts with the HC.

I think that playing for Lovie the past few years has been a lot like when you're living in a house that was last decorated in the mid-90s. You're comfortable there and you like it, but to anyone who comes in from the outside it's immediately apparent it's way out of date.  There are a lot of disappointed and even angry Bears veterans today but you know what?  If this is what it takes to get them fired up then it's good cause too often on the field I didn't see that this year.  Too many guys playing at a level way below their paychecks, way too often.

The Bears need a makeover, and a young, energetic HC with a real knack for offensive innovation and the ability to evaluate and develop talent is just the guy to do it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 01:08:30 pm
Thanks ISF. Appreciate the post
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 01:11:16 pm
I could make a Peyton Manning-led offense look good. If that's what we're interested in, Jim Caldwell is available.

Yeah except for the fact that last year, without Manning, McCoy took Tebow and almost literally overnight created an offense around him that made him a serviceable NFL QB.  Something no coach in the NFL was able to do before and hasn't done since.

Now if a guy can take a Tim Tebow one year, and a Peyton Manning the next, and get them both to the playoffs...  that tells me he's no ordinary OC.

My bigger question is if the best and brightest are going to WANT this gig?  I would like to think we've got a lot more to offer in numerous aspects than teams like Buffalo, Cleveland, KC, Philly or Arizona but you never know what a candidate is going to be looking for.  Our OL is the elephant in the room and any HC candidate for whom that is a concern is likely to dismiss our offer out of hand because our situation there is just that bad and there's no guarantee that only 1 offseason is gonna be enough to fix it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 01:14:18 pm
I wouldn't be too surprised if Lovie get's another gig right away.... I wouldn't be surprised if Dallas had a change of heart and you saw Lovie down there..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 01:16:06 pm
I wouldn't be too surprised if Lovie get's another gig right away.... I wouldn't be surprised if Dallas had a change of heart and you saw Lovie down there.

That's a good point.  I don't think a lot of people outside of Chicago saw Lovie's firing coming. If some NFL GM considers him a clear upgrade to whoever they've got now, you might see a HC unexpectedly get bounced to make room for him.  Stranger things have happened. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Lovie finishes up his career with some Texas team, in one capacity or another.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: ISF on December 31, 2012, 01:16:43 pm
I don't know that anything he did with Tebow was magic. Von Miller and Denver's defense kept them in games last year and Tebow was a gamer in the 4th quarter.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 01:22:00 pm
Cutler, Marshall and Bates all worked together with the Broncos in 2007-08. McCoy did not join the Broncos' staff until 2009.Cutler, Marshall and Bates all worked together with the Broncos in 2007-08. McCoy did not join the Broncos' staff until 2009. He had a couple weeks of offseason meetings with Cutler, but the quarterback would be traded to Chicago that March after a personality conflict with new head coach Josh McDaniels.

But this has me concerned: " He had a couple weeks of offseason meetings with Cutler, but the quarterback would be traded to Chicago that March after a personality conflict with new head coach Josh McDaniels." I wonder what transpired in those meetings. Would that affect him taking the Bears job and is there a liking or disliking between Cutler and McCoy? Was there some things brought up in the meetings that caused the Cutler trade to the Bears?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 01:26:43 pm
Another article on McCoy.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1463790-nfl-black-monday-is-mike-mccoy-the-right-man-for-the-chicago-bears

The fact that he was involved in the McDaniels / Cutler thing would be a big concern to me as well. Or at minimum, a source of some very in-depth questioning of both McCoy and Cutler independently to see what really went down there.

If I were a Chicago sportswriter I'd be doing my best to pump Cutler for reactions to McCoy but he may be too cagey to divulge anything on that point or more likely, is under a gag order from Emery not to talk about it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 31, 2012, 01:27:53 pm
Please don't make the coaching choice based on what Cutler likes or dislikes. I like Cutler but I don't want players making those calls. I want a coach that can be here and successful long term when Cutler is just a memory.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 01:28:16 pm
Maybe Cutler's not in future either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 01:29:53 pm
Please don't make the coaching choice based on what Cutler likes or dislikes. I like Cutler but I don't want players making those calls. I want a coach that can be here and successful long term when Cutler is just a memory.

I get what you're saying but if we dump Cutler then Marshall goes with him and we've basically flushed 2 1st rounders (for Cutler) and 2 3rd rounders (Marshall) with nothing to show for it.  In fact I would argue that with Cutler, Marshall and a good OL and TE this is probably a 12-win team next year whereas without Cutler and Marshall we'll be lucky to win half that.

You don't want the players running the show but you also need to leverage your investment.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 01:33:39 pm
The thing that bothers me was maybe Cutler was such a jagbag during the meetings that McCoy told management he couldnt work with Cutler and the best thing was to trade him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 01:40:08 pm
Or maybe McCoy liked Cutler but McDaniels didn't and since McDaniels outranked McCoy, Cutler was gone.  McDaniels wanted to bring Matt Cassell to Denver and Cutler got wind of it and that's what started the whole thing between those two.

You notice that McCoy was not run out of Denver with McDaniels. Which means John Fox thought enough of him to keep him even though as the new Denver HC he would have been within rights to replace him.

And BTW McCoy was also the OC/QB Coach for Kyle Orton's career year in Denver. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 31, 2012, 01:40:38 pm
http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/msn/sources_bears_to_interview_bill_cowher_as_head_coach/12546643
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 01:40:43 pm
Here's a stat that doesn't look good.. During Smith's nine seasons, the Bears were 17-19 in December.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 01:41:45 pm
Maybe Cutler's not in future either.

It better be, because we have so much invested in Cutler and we likely wouldnt get much out of him via trade. He seems to be hated so much around the league its hard to visualize him being successful anywhere else
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 01:44:45 pm
I know Cowher is a popular name with a lot of Bears fans but honestly, I don't know about him on the offensive side of the ball.

Plus that article said something about him maybe bringing in Whisenhunt and Russ Grimm from the Cardinals and those Cardinals teams have been so awful I'm not sure I want their stink on our new staff.  The OL in particular. Grimm was a great player but those OLs he coached in Arizona were worse than even ours.

Not sure a group of ex-Steeler retreads with however much time passed since their last SuperBowl is something I'm real interested in.  On top of which, Steelers and Cardinals both run 3-4 D which would mean about half our current defensive roster would need to be turned over.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 01:49:35 pm
Peke, that would be awesome. I wonder if George is willing to pay up what it'd take for Cowher? Thats mt question. Especially since they are going th have to pay Lovie's staff. But Cowher and Grimm here would go a long way towards a very good team
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 01:53:16 pm
Wishful, you need to watch some Cardinals games before wishing for Grimm as our OL coach.

The Cardinals OL has been a bottom-5 unit for YEARS, they've had multiple high draft pick busts on their OL (just like ours), and they're the reason Kevin Kolb didnt play for most of this season.

I have to say though, I'm glad the Bears are at least making the bold move of interviewing Cowher.  Not sure they would have even made the effort if this were 3 or 4 years ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 02:09:08 pm
Definitely agree that since George came aboard things have changed for the better. Years ago that wouldnt have happened.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 02:39:38 pm
Not sure about Cowher. Might be too many years passed by..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on December 31, 2012, 02:54:59 pm
Cowher gets me all tingly inside.....to see him prowling the Bears sidelines.....wow....H U G E  change from Lovie the Dimestore Indian!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 03:09:21 pm
Now lets see if we can interview Gruden too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 31, 2012, 03:22:40 pm
What is it with you guys wanting all the coaches that have been out of coaching? They have Joe Gibbs written all over them. Gruden won once with Tony Dungy's personnel and I don't believe he won another playoff game after that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 03:36:53 pm
This will cover the Rooney rule:

Falcons special teams coach to talk to Bears, Chiefs

 Posted by Darin Gantt on December 31, 2012, 3:21 PM EST
 
Getty Images
It might be hard for the Falcons to get much work done this week, as their coaching staff is in demand.
 
According to Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com, Falcons special teams coach Keith Armstrong is set to interview for vacancies with the Chiefs and Bears.
 
Falcons offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter has also lined up interviews with the Chiefs, Eagles and Browns.
 
Armstrong, 47, has been with the Falcons since 2008, after working for the Dolphins the previous seven years.
 
While special teams coaches aren’t considered as often as the other coordinators, they work with the entire roster other than quarterbacks, and have to be able to adjust on the fly to constantly changing personnel
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 03:42:13 pm
My only fascination with Gruden is he is offensively inclined, and works with the rookie QBs.  Something that would make for a nice change.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 04:05:37 pm
If the grand plan is to develop our 3rd string rookie QB a Gruden or McCoy could be just what the doctor ordered. SF has had success with their young QB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 31, 2012, 04:14:22 pm
What QB has Gruden developed? Not so much according to this.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/19/shaun-king-points-out-gruden-doesnt-actually-develop-young-quarterbacks/

“I won’t watch it. I disagree with the premise of the show.  The premise is that Gruden is some quarterbacks guru and that having him as a destination for a rookie QB is the ideal situation for a rookie and that just hasn’t proven to the case,” King said via JoeBucsFan.com.

King has a point.  Gruden never successfully developed young quarterbacks as a head coach.  He found success with Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, and later moderate success with Brian Griese and Jeff Garcia.  Chucky failed to truly develop King, Marques Tuiasosopo, Bruce Gradkowski, Josh Johnson, Luke McCown and Chris Simms.



Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 04:18:43 pm
Somebody in Tampa, cant remember the name, but he never had much success afterwards. But we need help developing QBs after the 20 some we've been blessed with and failed with.

Jeff Garcia and Johnson (Brad?)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 05:11:31 pm
We need to develop our starting QB..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 31, 2012, 05:16:30 pm
I am not ready to give up on Cutler yet.  But it is always a good idea to have young guys learning behind your starter.  Remember when Green Bay always had good back ups behind Favre and would trade them away for draft picks every few years?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 05:23:53 pm
Excellent point Peke. We can use that. New England also trades away players for draft picks. That approach might appeal to Emery
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 05:27:32 pm
I have looked over the various lists available as to HC candidates and to me McCoy is the most appealing. Another one I didnt know of but do now and impressed me was Kyle Shanahan.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 05:31:25 pm
Miller: Kelly, Saban among possible Bears candidates
 December 31, 2012, 3:28 pm

STAFF REPORT


 It's been just hours since the Bears announced Lovie Smith's firing and already talks are circulating about who would be a good replacement as the team's new head coach.

Comcast SportsNet Bears analyst Jim Miller joined David Kaplan on Monday to discuss the team's decision to let Smith go and break down a list of possible candidates for the job.

"I think how they fared in the playoffs would have been a difference-maker for [Bears GM] Phil Emery. It's tough to fire a coach who's 10-6, but if he drives and makes a big push in the playoffs, you think it would have benefited Lovie Smith's chances to remain as head coach," Miller explained.

Now, whether the remaining coaching staff stays with the team is up in the air as well.

"Normally when you bring in a new head coach, they're going to bring in their guys," Miller said. "They may interview guys who are currently on staff and they could potentially retain them. But nine times out of 10, they're bringing in their own group of guys and their assistant coaches, and pretty much everyone goes.

"I think you're going to see major sweeping changes."

And there are plenty of names to go around that will begin those changes.

"A lot of people are [talking about] Rick Dennison, who was a former offensive coordinator out in Denver. Jay [Cutler] has a relationship with him. John Gruden, there's a coach that, say for instance, if [the Bears] were to hire him, he's got a past with [Bears defensive coordinator] Rod Marinelli [and could retain him].

"Bill O'Brien, who I think is really getting a lot of notice in NFL circles with his work at Penn State, [is also a possible candidate].

"And I'd keep an eye on the two national championship coaches," Miller added. "[Notre Dame head coach] Brian Kelly is a guy of interest because his offense travels well, doesn't matter if [he has] a passing quarterback or a running quarterback, his defenses are always played well. I think he and obviously [Alabama head coach] Nick Saban are of interest and are on NFL radar screens.

"[Kelly] knows how to deal with teams, he's all about winning that that seems to be his only goal as a coach. I don't think Notre Dame, quite frankly, is his dream job. I think the guy's always wanted to make a case and make a jump to the National Football League."

But no matter who receives an offer to becomes the Bears' next head coach, Miller believes the team and the city of Chicago won't have a hard time finding a top-notch candidate who would want to come to the Windy City.

"The Chicago Bears job, out of all the openings right now, to me, is the most coveted," Miller said. "It's the biggest market, there's history, there's tradition, there's a great following, it's no doubt the marquee place that I think any coach would want to be."

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 05:33:48 pm
I doubt seriously Brian Kelly leaves ND but its interesting he is getting some love. Nick Saban was an NFL assistant with the Jets if I recall right and he just might be tempted to abandon recruiting to return to the pros.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 05:47:56 pm
Me and the missus are big Bama fans and we love what Saban has done down in Tuscaloosa.

That being said, he's about the worst candidate for the Bears HC that I can think of.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 31, 2012, 05:59:18 pm
Saban was head coach in Miami.  He left because his family HATED Miami.  The culture was much different than the old south they were use to.  Having lived in/near both locations...I totally understood why his family wanted out of Miami.

Saban would be awesome....but don't think it will happen.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 31, 2012, 06:00:19 pm
Hester threatening to retire...love it.  Please do we won't have to pay you another dime!  Stole money all year.  Trade value minimal. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:01:41 pm
ESPN Chicago says Lovie has already been contacted by 4 teams to interview for HC positions.

The interesting thing is that most of the teams that just fired their HCs also run 3-4 defensive schemes. KC, Arizona, Cleveland just to name 3.  I believe San Diego runs a 3-4 also.  So that's kind of interesting.  I just can't envision Lovie being HC of a team with a 3-4 defense. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 31, 2012, 06:02:28 pm
My money is he lands in KC.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:04:18 pm
Devin Hester has played his last down in a Bears uniform.  If he doesn't follow through on his retirement threat, Emery will cut him and make the choice for him.

He also had some choice words for Bears fans today.  Something about the "fake fans" finally getting what they wanted. It's too bad cause he was a fan favorite for many years.  Hate to see guys like that go out this way.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:07:14 pm
KC is where my gut tells me Lovie could wind up too.  It's not Texas but it's closer.  It's a small market, with a slow pace, lower expectations and much less media drama which I think Lovie would welcome at this point.  And other than the Broncos the AFC West is a tremendously weak division so he would be able to rack up a pretty good number of wins his first year there with little more than them adding a legit NFL QB. 

Also, Emery is reportedly tight with Chiefs GM Scott Pioli and may have already put in a good word for Lovie down there. 

The thing is I just hate to see Lovie going to a team with the #1 overall draft pick cause you KNOW they're gonna screw it up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:10:53 pm
Uhhh.... not real excited about this guy:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/31/mike-sullivan-to-interview-with-bears/

The Bucs in general and Josh Freeman in particular haven't exactly set the league on fire with offense the past few years.  Freeman has thrown a LOT of INTs the last two seasons and our QB already has that part of his game down, thank you very much.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 31, 2012, 06:10:56 pm
Didn't the Bears do the dance with Saban when he was at LSU before we ended up with Lovie? My memory isn't what it used to be but I recall there was some type of connection with Angelo. Damn old age...CRS!!!!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:12:08 pm
I think Angelo and Saban are buds.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 31, 2012, 06:13:21 pm
Uhhh.... not real excited about this guy:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/31/mike-sullivan-to-interview-with-bears/

The Bucs in general and Josh Freeman in particular haven't exactly set the league on fire with offense the past few years.  Our QB is already well along in the art of throwing INTs, thank you very much.



Don't know much about him but the resume looks strong...just have a problem with the Tampa connection even though I know it's irrational.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:16:23 pm
It would be a nice to pull a guy in here from a program that's had a lot of success the last 2-3 years.  We need to establish a culture of winning and the best way to do that is get coaches in here that have been winning a lot of games with other teams and know how it's done. 

The Bucs do not qualify on that front.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:19:31 pm
One thing I'm really liking so far is that George and Emery have put on their big boy points and are handling this thing the way the top-shelf franchises do.

1) Announce the firing as soon as possible - CHECK

2) Have a list of strongly viable (not pipe dream), credible candidates in place before firing - CHECK

3) Aggressively pursue interviewing - CHECK

After the fiascos of the Angelo era it's really a nice change to see people in Halas Hall doing the right things in the right order and with some evidence of a plan behind it all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 06:20:13 pm
It would be ironic if we got Saban, because that is who Angelo really really wanted to hire, but they couldnt pull it off.  If he was super successful even more ironic.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on December 31, 2012, 06:26:32 pm
I won't let some heat of the moment quote diminish the memories of the "good" Hester over the years.  Just think how much lower those mid 20 something rankings of the Lovie offense would be without his abilities and good field position.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:27:41 pm
Let me say again, Saban would be a HORRIBLE NFL HC.

He is not creative at all.  What he is, is one of the best recruiters of all time.  His Bama teams overwhelm opponents through sheer talent much more than through innovative coaching.  Bama in the Saban era is basically the 21st century version of the Nebraska Cornhuskers under Tom Osborne.  Saban is one of the best D-1 college coaches of all time, who would also be crashing failure in the NFL.

Pass on Saban.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:50:04 pm
I see that Mike Sullivan has a military background.

That could get him in good with Emery...  though I'm not sure how useful or necessary that kind of background is to being an ace offensive football mind. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on December 31, 2012, 06:54:41 pm
My guess is Emery is just poking around, he knows who he wants..

I'd be willing to bet he knew who he wanted at the start of the season..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 06:55:42 pm
Sounds like he's already got a Rooney Rule candidate lined up as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on December 31, 2012, 07:02:31 pm
I still like McCoy and Kyle Shanahan

Kyle Shanahan, Redskins offensive coordinator: Son of Mike Shanahan, Kyle deserves credit for the lightning-fast ascent of Robert Griffin III.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on December 31, 2012, 07:10:49 pm
I'd be on board with Kyle Shanahan too.  Granted he has been gifted an extraordinarily talented and unusually mature rookie QB, but still, harnessing extreme talent requires its own type of coaching expertise and he has done that with the Skins extremely well.  Especially considering their relative lack of "name" talent at RB and WR.

Keith Armstrong would be a tough sell to the Bears fan base I think.  I knew the name was familiar, so I researched and he was actually the Bears ST coach pre-Toub.  #1 a lot of Bears fans (myself included) don't think bringing in a ST guy to be our new HC is where it's at.  We want it to be an offensive mind.  #2 the Bears during the time Armstrong was here were not particularly good teams and I think a lot of folks would rather we not recycle guys from previous eras of Bears mediocrity.  Knowing of course Emery was here once before too. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 07:31:03 pm
I like that he worked under Coughlin.  And the military thing:

Before moving to Tampa, Sullivan spent eight years on Tom Coughlin’s staff with the Giants. He was wide receivers coach for the first six years and the quarterbacks coach in 2010 and 2011. Sullivan graduated from the U.S. Army Airborne, Ranger and Air Assault schools after graduating from West Point and before going into coaching almost 20 years ago.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on December 31, 2012, 08:03:37 pm
Just heard that Shanahan is making all his coaches off limits as long as Washington is still playing.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on December 31, 2012, 08:03:49 pm
I am liking the Emery/George era already.  As someone else pointed out they are finally doing things correctly.

No consulting group to find candidates.  They fired Lovie right away and got on with their search.

My guess is Emery had two or three guys on his short list before he fired Lovie and several more just in case.  That is how succesful teams do it.  You do not fire a coach or GM then hire a company to find you candidates.  That Zhit was just Fing stupid!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 31, 2012, 08:56:54 pm
I'm curious what you guys think...
will we hire a former NFL HC, some up coming coordinator or someone from college.
Do you think it will happen before the superbowl or after?

I'm thinking it will be a current NFL coordinator, likely from the offensive side of the ball.
I also think while it will happen quickly, we won't get it done before the superbowl.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 31, 2012, 09:37:41 pm
I took an old TV up to the attic today and hooked up my old Nintendo 64 to check and see if the TV worked.
The first game I picked up was Madden 2002.....
Shane Matthews at QB
James Allen at RB
Fred Baxter at TE
Damian Shelton at FB
and MRob at WR

and we thought we had talent issues now.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 09:55:03 pm
Who was playing LT?   We might want to give them a call.  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on December 31, 2012, 10:33:58 pm
Probably was Tait.  Oh long for those days of LT.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on December 31, 2012, 10:42:28 pm
I wonder if John Tait is still in shape.  ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on December 31, 2012, 10:48:18 pm
I didn't play long enough to see who LT was.
I was thinking it ws Brockermeyer but looking back Blake left after the 2001 season and Tait didn't arrive until 2004.
It was actually Columbo, I actually forgot about him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: joki13 on January 01, 2013, 06:03:05 am
  2013 is starting off pretty good. I just had my superbowl. Although I would love to bring in a proven winner as HC I think we most likely go with an assistant . I'm interested in what I've been reading about OC,McCoy's accomplishments with Denver.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: guest77 on January 01, 2013, 06:05:27 am
Happy New Year Bears Fans!
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 01, 2013, 08:05:55 am
I expect with a new HC, we end up with a new DC and a new defensive scheme. It makes me wonder if Urlacher at his age will try to learn a new scheme or just decide to hang it up.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 01, 2013, 08:36:15 am
What was Big Cat? LT or RT? Can't remember....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on January 01, 2013, 09:05:01 am
RT
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: joki13 on January 01, 2013, 09:23:15 am
 Now those were the good old days of Mark Hatley. Brockermeyer, Todd Perry, Olin Kruetz, Chris Villarial, "Big Cat"Williams. Now that was a solid OL. 
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on January 01, 2013, 09:26:02 am
Saban is 61 years old. He also is king of the world in CFB.

Bears need to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on January 01, 2013, 09:55:11 am
Just saw where Ken Wisenhunt was fired in AZ.  I would mind seeing him as OC. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 01, 2013, 10:36:00 am
Why do people seem to think we should pick up these ex Cardinals coaches?

The Cardinals are AWFUL and have been for awhile. I dont get it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on January 01, 2013, 10:42:25 am
Just heard Emery presser on wscr.  He wants the new coach to be able to adapt to the players here. It would take a lot of convincing to get Emery on board with a 3-4, as those type guys are not on the team. He said he had no preference as to 4-3 or 3-4, but in my interpretation of his comments, he is not going to want to majorly overhaul the roster, so it will be a 4-3...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 01, 2013, 10:55:53 am
Re the OL Emery said they basically had to choose between upgrading them and the WRs and they went with the WRs.

He also apparently is high on how Jonathan Scott played at RT. Wouldnt surprise me if he -- not Carimi -- starts OTAs as the #1 there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 01, 2013, 11:19:25 am
Hmmm...  If Sullivan were hired and Marinelli kept on, you'd have s GM, HC and DC all with hardc*re military backgrounds.

Somehow I have to think a team like that would be a WHOLE lot psychologically tougher than Lovies teams were. And in better shape physically too.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 01, 2013, 11:31:51 am
I don't think we are that far off from a 3-4.
We need a big plugger NT in the middle
Izzy and Peppers are the right size for DE. I think they both might be more athletic than your average 3-4 DE.

I think Briggs, Urlacher and McClellan at LB would work. I think Tillman and Jennings have proven they can cover most guys.
I think a cover 2 safety is the hardest to find, 3-4 might actually be easier for them.
The biggest question is that big NT. None of our DT's are over 300lbs.
They have Melton listed as 6'3, 295. I don't know if he could do it. He definately doesn't have the size to require a double team but he
does have enough quickness.

Coming off a pro-bowl season we might could tag/trade him for a pick.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 01, 2013, 11:38:58 am
McClellin would be better in a 3-4 but the whole rest of the D roster is built for a 4-3.

Switching to a 3-4 would lengthen Emerys to do list immensely. I'm not a fan of a wholesale switch myself but Lovies scheme could definitely use a refresh at the least.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 01, 2013, 01:49:35 pm
Hmmm...  If Sullivan were hired and Marinelli kept on, you'd have s GM, HC and DC all with hardc*re military backgrounds.

Somehow I have to think a team like that would be a WHOLE lot psychologically tougher than Lovies teams were. And in better shape physically too.

If they keep any of the coaches then they may as well had kept Lovie.  Get rid of them all and let the new guy pick his assistants!!!
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on January 01, 2013, 02:01:16 pm
Whisenhunt is highly regarded, regardless of his results in Arizona. Any coach winning any game with that roster should be proud.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 01, 2013, 03:41:59 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/holmgren-interested-coaching-again-193005230--nfl.html

Mike Holmgren said he would consider returning as a coach if one of the seven NFL teams with a vacancy contacts him, according to ESPN.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 01, 2013, 03:52:16 pm
Emery's first hire might be Cutler's last chance

Steve Rosenbloom/Chicago Tribune
11:14 a.m. CST, January 1, 2013


"Change isn’t always bad," Jay Cutler was saying Monday shortly after the Chicago Bears whacked Lovie Smith.
 
Wait, Cutler said that? Cutler said change isn’t always bad? The guy who seemed annoyed that he has had a different offensive coordinator almost every year said THAT?
 
Should’ve called timeout before making that play, because it doesn’t sound as if Cutler is too broken up over all this, which seems notable for a guy who throws some notable hissyfits during games.

Which brings me to this point on a Tuesday that Phil Emery explained why he fired the head coach he got stuck with:
 
This is not a hire that will define just the start of Emery's reign but also one that could signal the end of Cutler's, or at least the continuation of his growing reputation as a coach-killer.
 
It might not be accurate, but then, neither is Cutler’s arm.
 
The more toys that Cutler got this season, the worse his offense got. The more that things turned bad this season, the more hissyfits he threw.
 
Cutler has the pretty, shiny physical talent that teams dream of, but his questionable mental and emotional makeup is blinding right now.
 
For those of you keeping score at home, Cutler will be playing for his third head coach, which is more than his combined total of one postseason appearance.
 
Cutler will be working under at least his fifth offensive coordinator, which would be at least four more than his combined total of one playoff win.
 
Cutler is the quarterback of a team that went from 7-1 to firing the coach.
 
I don’t know how you measure the return-on-investment on such things, but Cutler appears to be an NFL fiscal cliff.
 
And Emery appears to know it. The GM stressed Tuesday that his new coach has to be the right person to “help Jay develop’’ or bring in an offensive coordinator who can do that.
 
Emery added that he still believes Cutler is a “franchise quarterback.’’ Problem is, Cutler is looking closer to a coach-killer. Or maybe Jeff George, Part Deux.
 
Because he’s certainly not Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees or either Manning.
 
He’s not even RGIII or Russell Wilson. Those two rookies hadn't taken so much as one NFL snap last September, and here they are, meeting this weekend in as many postseasons as Cutler can claim in his seven-year career, so don't give me any of this hooey about learning a system.
 
And don’t give me any of this noise about the offensive line. Rodgers gets sacked more than Cutler. Rodgers isn’t as nifty on his feet as Cutler. Rodgers is more successful than Cutler.
 
Emery trotted out some interesting stats about the offensive line’s pass protection and receivers' drops, and without killing everybody with the math, Emery said they ranked higher in each category than three teams that are going to the playoffs.
 
Emery’s point was, it’s not about excuses in areas that are screechy and wrong. Instead, Emery declared that it’s about making plays in the middle of the field --- get lost, Kellen Davis --- and more importantly, it’s about the number of playmakers you have.
 
Your first playmaker is your quarterback. Cutler must learn to lead like an adult. He must learn to execute when it matters. Cutler tends to play his worst when the pressure is greatest. Now, with Emery’s first coach coming in, it sounded pretty clear that Cutler is on the clock.
 
Quick, someone tell Cutler you don't continue to get big money when you continue to come up small.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 01, 2013, 04:37:12 pm
http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/videos/Emery-on-coaching-search/1df0189b-d67d-4f12-bbda-f877477e1323#/multimedia/videos/Emery_on_offense_line/f85fa61a-ac91-4103-aa8a-b6e76f7a5337
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on January 01, 2013, 04:38:28 pm
ESPN is saying its 95% Andy Reid signing this week with Arizona
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 01, 2013, 04:57:03 pm
Oh I agree Cutler could end up on the last year of his contract. I do believe Emery wants to build around Cutler. I do believe McCoy is the best candidate for the Bears and Jay. McCoy is the leading candidate around the league it seems according to ESPN.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 01, 2013, 06:55:21 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4681725/whos-next-candidates-for-bears-coach

If it isn't Gruden or Cowher my first choice would probably be the OC of the Broncos, Saints or Colts.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 01, 2013, 08:06:47 pm
Peke, I like your taste in HC candidates.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 01, 2013, 08:12:11 pm
Except for the fact that Monday Night Football would be watchable again I would hate it if we ended up with Gruden. He's the most overrated candidate out there. He won once with the team that Tony Dungy built. After that...nada...not one playoff win.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 01, 2013, 08:18:22 pm
Maybe he could win one which Lovie built?

Right now I have to think McCoy is the odds on favorite.  He was the first candidate they asked permission to talk to.  Also his offenses have been pretty impressive with Orton, Tebow and Manning.  That is three very different QB's and they all had success.  Orton had his best career year under him.

In the Emery media session today he mentioned he wanted to have the new HC in place by the College all star game which is Jan 19th.  He did mention that due to the play offs he may not be able to do that but that is his goal.  That tells me he wants an OC from one of the play off teams. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 01, 2013, 08:19:38 pm
Plus Emery said today he wants a coach who can mold his system to the players not the other way around.  That sounds like McCoy to me.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 01, 2013, 08:25:15 pm
Another curious thing I read is that none of our other coaches have been let go.  Emery says they are all under contract and that the new coach would have the choice of keeping or getting rid of them if he so chooses. 

A new good offense minded HC keeping Marenelli as the DC would not neccesarilly be a bad thing especially if some of Lovies guys were let go and replaced with some new blood.  I would be fine with Toub staying as well.  If Rivera gets fired I would have no problem with him as DC either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: hibernationsuxs on January 01, 2013, 09:00:28 pm
yapper,

based on your logic Bill Belichick who coached the Browns from 91-95 compiled a record of 36-44 should never have coached again.  Belichick's last year with the Browns he was 5-11 after starting season 3-1.  Whisenhunt start this year 4-0 finishing 5-11.  Interesting.

Whisenhunt will probably get another HC gig, but if we could get him as an OC we would be doing very well IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 01, 2013, 11:13:07 pm
Peke, what you have been saying is what I have been saying to myself. I believe the Job is McCoy's if he wants it. And it does make sense to keep some of the defensive coaches. Is Clady a FA or not? If he is he'll likely be franchised.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 01, 2013, 11:17:46 pm
Maybe Emery wants McCoy but does McCoy want Chicago?

We've got a lot to offer but the number of pieces we're still missing on the offense -- and the feast or famine nature of Cutler and Marshall -- are things any viable HC candidate could legitimately have qualms about.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 01, 2013, 11:21:58 pm
I dont know how much talking the Bears can get done before Jan 19th with all the rules  about talking to other teams coaches
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 02, 2013, 12:06:26 am
Another curious thing I read is that none of our other coaches have been let go.  Emery says they are all under contract and that the new coach would have the choice of keeping or getting rid of them if he so chooses. 

A new good offense minded HC keeping Marenelli as the DC would not neccesarilly be a bad thing especially if some of Lovies guys were let go and replaced with some new blood.  I would be fine with Toub staying as well.  If Rivera gets fired I would have no problem with him as DC either.


The only problem with keeping Marinelli as DC is who was really running the D, Lovie or Marinelli?  I think it was Lovie.
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on January 02, 2013, 12:21:55 am
I'd like to see Kevin Sumlin get an interview...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wibearfan on January 02, 2013, 02:04:46 am
Phill23
Hero Member

I hope the team doesn't consider Norv Turner as OC.   I think his days in Dallas has some folks believing he can do the same here.  Turner had Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin (can't think of that WR that was on the other side of him for the life of me),


alvin harper, he went to the bucs after his career in dallas.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 02, 2013, 04:06:12 am

 Keep Toub and Jeramy Bates.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Grizzlybear34 on January 02, 2013, 04:29:34 am
Remember Babich coached after Rivera left and we were bad on defense.  I think Marinelli had his hands on during game day
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 02, 2013, 06:20:10 am
Remember Babich coached after Rivera left and we were bad on defense.  I think Marinelli had his hands on during game day

 Keep him too. Any other names we should keep in coaching ?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 02, 2013, 06:32:17 am
Throw Tom Clements, Packers OC into the mix....Bears asked permission to interview him....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 02, 2013, 07:10:28 am
Clements would be big, help us out and hurt a rival.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 02, 2013, 07:16:26 am
I watched a few of Emery's interviews on chicagobears.com last night, it is apparent he has put a lot of effort into scouting this team and the coaches. It is also good to see his point of view on things like the coach search and why he chose AJ over some of the OL avail in the draft.

Like was mentioned earlier, he was pretty high on Scott the OT we picked up in FA. I'm curious why he didn't play sooner.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 02, 2013, 07:17:35 am
the other part I though interesting is that several of the teams in the playoffs have an OL as bad as ours and have as many drops as we do.

I feel like Emery is more on a level with us than Angelo ever was.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 02, 2013, 07:35:33 am
And we really didn't miss the playoffs but by one game..
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: BearHit on January 02, 2013, 07:54:50 am
Because the Packer games were not "must-win" games...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 08:05:57 am
he was pretty high on Scott the OT we picked up in FA. I'm curious why he didn't play sooner.

Because GMs don't decide who plays and who sits...  coaches do.

IIRC several on this board were calling for Scott to get his shot for WEEKS before it actually happened. Another reason Lovie is gone and Tice is close behind.  The personnel utilization on our offense was horrible this year and has been ever since they started trying to force-fit Hester as a WR.

I am so looking forward to the end of sh*t like that, also the endless playing of O-Linemen out of position and the squandering of timeouts in the 1st and 3rd quarters.  I won't miss any of that at all.

Re Clements, yeah definitely talk to the guy but I don't see any way he jumps ship from Green Bay. Given the difference in talent on the respective teams it would be like dumping Jessica Biel to date Rosanne Barr. If Clements takes the job here then we know Emery has got his mojo seriously going. 

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 08:41:52 am
Read someplace where if Keith Armstrong got the Bears HC job he would try to bring in Norv Turner as OC.

Not sure if I would have let that slip if I were him.  Unless he knows (from his past tenure with the Bears) that's something the McCaskeys want to hear.  In any case I consider Armstrong an extreme long-shot to actually get an offer from Emery.  Most likely he's the obligatory Rooney Rule candidate vs. a legit short-list option.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on January 02, 2013, 08:42:47 am
It would be going from a non playcalling OC to head coach of the Bears. You seriously think the guy wouldn't jump at that?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 08:52:22 am
Realistically our LT, LG and C all need replaced. (That's assuming Louis makes it back 100% and Scott can keep taking care of business at RT).  If we're lucky we'll get all 3 of those starters this offseason but in reality it will probably be 2 -- one in FA and one in the draft -- with us sifting through the rest of our current stiffs for the 5th starter plus depth.

Then we need a Gronkowski type TE.  Not necessarily a Pro Bowler but that kind of guy who can create mismatches all over the field.

And we also need to add a speed WR cause Knox' playing days are over and Hester has been a crashing failure in that role and maybe headed out of town as well. 

That's a lot of holes for a new HC to inherit. If the candidate is up for a challenge they may welcome the opportunity but they're gonna need a hella lot of faith in Emery to get a lot of roster work done this offseason cause if we don't it's going to be seriously tough for any HC/OC combo to significantly improve the O in 2013. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Bears4Ever on January 02, 2013, 09:02:43 am
I wouldn't touch anybody who had contact with the Wanny regime EVER....... (RE Armstrong- although he was probably one of the best coaches (talk of damning with faint praise) on his "staph").
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 09:06:56 am
The biggest problem Clements would have as the Bears HC is that fans would be expecting him to turn Cutler into another Aaron Rodgers.

That's not gonna happen. Cutler is bigger than Rodgers, has a bigger arm and equal or better mobility, but he's not wired like Rodgers and only occasionally comes close to Rodgers' touch or accuracy.  No question in my mind that Clements could significantly improve our offense but to work the same magic on Cutler that he has with Rodgers would be expecting too much, IMO.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 02, 2013, 09:18:40 am
we need a HC that can bring in folks to get the best out of the talent we have.
I don't think we have been there.

One other thought, I think Urlacher is an FA....wonder if Urlacher follows Lovie somewhere so he doesn't have to learn another scheme.
I could especially see it if Lovie ends up in AZ.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 09:23:59 am
I think Andy Reid has the lock on the Cardinals job. So the only way Lovie winds up there would be as Reid's DC.  That's where I could see Urlacher finishing up too but for that to happen the Cardinals would have to scrap their entire 3-4 defensive scheme which is the only part of that team that was any good this year.

Now today Urlacher came out and said he wants to stay in Chicago even if he's not playing for Lovie anymore.  My gut feeling is that if the new HC keeps Marinelli, then Urlacher will want to stay but if Marinelli gets launched he'll either retire or look elsewhere.  Ultimately though it's Emery writing the contract, not Urlacher, so 54's future as a Bear is really out of his hands at this point.

Meanwhile here's another guy that it was said the Bears had on their radar, but he's taken himself out of consideration:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/02/dirk-koetter-staying-with-falcons-will-not-take-a-head-coaching-job/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 10:03:58 am
Here's the craziest notion yet.

Hire McCoy as HC and for our #2 QB... Tim Tebow.

Cutler sucks in the red zone but Tebow rules there.  So create two offenses within one and Tebow runs the red zone offense and Cutler does everything else.

Crazy, maybe.  But somehow I get the feeling Emery is down for some craziness right now.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 02, 2013, 10:20:01 am
Tebow is going to be in Jacksonville. They need him as a home town boy coming home to fill seats.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 10:24:31 am
Yeah... and as I think about it more, with Tebow being a lefty we'd basically need blindside protectors on both sides of the line and we'll be hard pressed to get even get one. 

It would give opposing DCs a whole lot more to think about, though.

Among the many things I'm liking about how we're handling this, one of the biggest is that Emery wants the new HC in-house before the All-Star games commence.  It only makes sense to know what kind of players the new HC is looking for sooner than later so we can prepare for the draft most effectively and efficiently.
 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 02, 2013, 10:47:42 am
So if McCarthy calls the plays in GB, what the heck does Clemment do?  And will that be enough to help?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 10:51:40 am
So if McCarthy calls the plays in GB, what the heck does Clemment do?

And that's exactly the red flag people raise on Clements.  Packrat could provide the inside scoop but I think essentially what he is in GB, is a glorifed QBs Coach.  Now, looking at Rodgers' success that's not something to sneeze at, but in terms of gameplanning, in-game management etc. I believe Clements is pretty non-involved up there.

You can learn under a master, but that doesn't mean you automatically get the master's mojo. Bill Belicheck and his disciples being a classic example.  There's a certain amount of sex appeal at the prospect of raiding the Packers' staff but if what we're looking at is essentially promoting a position coach to a HC position with primary OC duties also attached...  that's a mighty big jump for anyone to take.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on January 02, 2013, 10:55:07 am
If that's the case

Clements = Childress
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: stelz on January 02, 2013, 11:00:29 am
I like how the packers have run the same offensive system for years under multiple HC's and coordinators. Wish the bears operated that way...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 11:06:44 am
A theme that has been coming through loud and clear from Emery through this whole thing is that he wants a HC who can adapt to the personnel in place and what that means is he doesn't want new coaches and systems that are going to require him to churn 3/4 of the current roster in order to succeed.  Emery -- like any intelligent Bears fan who has followed the team this season -- knows that while a few positions on this team are badly lacking, on the whole, the Bears have a lot more guys who can play in this league than guys who can't.  He's looking for a HC who can take the quality core guys we've already got -- plus a few pieces that will be upgraded in the next few months via draft / FA / trades -- and put a playoff team on the field NEXT YEAR.   

Emery has re-tooling -- not rebuilding -- in mind and therefore the window for results is going to be compressed.  This isn't a gig where the new HC is inheriting a train wreck of a roster and will get a 2-3 season grace period to put things together.  Emery has this team on a faster track than that. I would expect the contract offered to the new HC to be relatively short -- i.e., 4 years -- as a way of reinforcing this urgency.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 11:10:39 am
Tweet from ESPN Bears blogger Jeff Dickenson:

Spoken to several people re: Hester & nobody is sure if he will actually retire, but all agree Hester needs a fresh start someplace else.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 02, 2013, 11:22:24 am
Hester played at U of Miami...what's the deal on the LT  Long?  Is he a FA or is a trade necessary? Hester could bring in some fans down there.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 11:45:46 am
I believe Jake Long is set to be an FA unless the Fins tag him.  His play has dropped off significantly the past couple of years, to that point it doesn't seem Miami fans would be that sorry to see him go.

If he really has peaked then I think some team could wind up badly overpaying for him and I hope it's not us.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 02, 2013, 12:04:00 pm
Or maybe all he needs is a change of pace. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 12:11:07 pm
Phil Emery's 1st Year:  Hits and Whiffs

For discussion, here's how I break out some key personnel moves in the first year of the Emery era:

HITS

1 - WR Brandon Marshall (trade).   Emery's best personnel move to date and arguably the best trade any team made all year. #15 has been everything we expected and more. Without him we would have at least doubled our loss total and finished at the bottom of the division.
Grade:  A

2 - OT Jonathan Scott (FA).   Ex-Steeler stepped in where Carimi was failing miserably and helped stop the bleeding on the right side.  Also saved our bacon at least twice with clutch fumble recoveries.  By far our most active and consistent O-Lineman after Louis went down, and would probably have done even better if not for a succession of nagging late season injuries. He may not be a long-term starting solution at RT but if we have to go with him there next year I won't be too concerned.
Grade:  B+

3 - WR Alshon Jeffery (Draft, 2nd round).   Injuries, inexperience and under-usage kept this rookie from being a major contributor to an offense that was desperate all year for a reliable #2.  He needs to put in a LOT of offseason time with Cutler, Marshall and our new OC -- and shake an alarming tendency to get hurt -- but the physical tools and competitive mindset are there.  Still a steal at where we drafted him even if his first-year production was a disappointment.
Grade:  B

4 - DT Nate Collins (FA).  FA from Jax brought quality depth to the DT rotation. 
Grade:  B

5 - RB Michael Bush (FA).   "Splash" FA signing who paid big dividends early in the season only to see things fall apart during the team's late season collapse.  Got in the doghouse after a critical fumble in the Texans loss and ended the year on IR under suspicious circumstances. Did not meet expectations but I would be very surprised if the new regime doesn't keep him around.
Grade:  B-minus

WHIFFS

1) QB Jason Campell (FA).   This guy was just awful.  No arm, no mobility, no leadership.  The Bears were not even remotely competitive anytime he was on the field. Count me among the people who want him gone.
Grade: F

2) OG Chilo Rachal (FA).   All-Pro body, D-III skills and the emotional makeup of a 3rd grader.  Emery had good intentions taking a flyer on this former 2nd round pick I'm sure, but it ended badly with Rachal being abused by his former team in primetime, relieved of his starting position and quitting the team. His rise and fall was the most bizarre personnel story to affect the Bears this year and I serious doubt we see too many more situations like this on Emery's watch.
Grade: D-minus

3) DB Brandon Hardin (Draft, 3rd round).   This guy's initials may as well be W.T.F. because every move involving him has been a head-scratcher. An athletic freak with no true NFL position, drafted at least a round higher than most had projected, only to spend his entire rookie season on IR (without option to return) even though his recovery was quick and he could have helped us in the late season.  Very interested to see his career play out cause it's been almost impossible to figure out Emery's thinking with this guy and frankly, up to this point it reeks of a classic Angelo redshirt "project" reach.
Grade:  Inc

4)  ST/WR Eric Weems (FA).  Was supposed to be an upgrade for Rasheed Davis as both an ST ace and WR, but proved to be very average at both. 
Grade:  C-minus

5)  ST/LB Blake Costanzo (FA).   Another supposed ST ace who did not play up to rep for Toub this year.  A good guy with some leadership capabilities, but hardly a difference maker on a Bears ST unit that regressed noticeably this year. 
Grade:  C
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 01:33:03 pm
I think that at least as interesting as what people we bring in for the OL, will be who is hired as the OL coach and what philosophy he brings in.

Tice was known to favor big-bodied drive blockers, and the Bears had one of the biggest OLs in the league even if they rarely played up to their size. That philosophy did not serve us well and especially on plays like that failed 4th-and-short against Seattle where those kind of guys are supposed to earn their pay.  Whereas other teams have had great success with zone blocking schemes which require smaller O-Linemen who can really move.  If a zone blocking scheme is where we're headed you may see even more churn on the OL than people are already expecting because outside of Louis, possibly Scott and maybe James Brown we really don't have those personnel on the roster at all.

That OL coach is going to be a critical hire for this team and our new HC has to get that one right over anything else.  WR coach also needs to be an ace...  we have the core of a nice receiving unit with Marshall, Jeffery and Bennett (plus whoever we bring in for a speed guy)... but they all have different skill sets and they are at very different points in their careers so it may take some doing to get them all consistently operating at their peak.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 02, 2013, 02:10:59 pm
So where do you put McClellin and Evan Rodriguez on your list?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 02:16:56 pm
I didn't include McClellin and E-Rod because I think for where they were each drafted, we got about what we could have expected.

Neither of them knocked me out enough to be considered a Top-5 "hit," but neither of them was a whiff to the extent of the 5 I listed either.

Regarding McClellin in particular, I would really like to see next season be one where they come up with some new and creative ways to get him off blocks and working in space.  Hand on the ground as a 4-3 DE is simply not his best game.  They need some hybrid front packages where he can use his burst and quick hands to get by blockers instead of running straight into them.

That may not happen if Marinelli is retained as DC, but what's not to say that if he is retained he won't loosen up things a little and try some new things without Lovie keeping an eye on his every move? 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 02, 2013, 02:41:58 pm
The biggest problem Clements would have as the Bears HC is that fans would be expecting him to turn Cutler into another Aaron Rodgers.

Maybe not exactly Aaron Rodgers but someone of similar qualities would be expected. Rodgers was a gunner too when he first arrived in GB. He turned into a fine all around QB. I'd expect much the same with Cutler. He needs to realize he cant just stand back there and throw TD passes. He has to be shown how to throw the ball away when the situation necessitates and not throw into tripple coverage through a narrow window. If Clements can teach Cutler to be a QB instead of a thrower that would be what I would expect.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 02, 2013, 03:03:23 pm
I think It would save Cutler some hurt if he would check down more often.
Maybe with all the extra blockers we used we didn't have a check down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 02, 2013, 03:04:46 pm
So if McCarthy calls the plays in GB, what the heck does Clemment do?

And that's exactly the red flag people raise on Clements.  Packrat could provide the inside scoop but I think essentially what he is in GB, is a glorifed QBs Coach.  Now, looking at Rodgers' success that's not something to sneeze at, but in terms of gameplanning, in-game management etc. I believe Clements is pretty non-involved up there.

You can learn under a master, but that doesn't mean you automatically get the master's mojo. Bill Belicheck and his disciples being a classic example.  There's a certain amount of sex appeal at the prospect of raiding the Packers' staff but if what we're looking at is essentially promoting a position coach to a HC position with primary OC duties also attached...  that's a mighty big jump for anyone to take.

Clements is very highly regarded by the GB brain trust.

The least important requrement for a HC is to be able to call plays.

Philbin didn't call plays in GB but he seems to be doing a good job as HC in Miami so far.

The requirements for a HC are different from those of an OC.

The interview by a good GM will be very important in selecting a HC.  Fans are not privy to that interview by the GM or other inside info about the character of the HC candidate.  I would not rule out Clements as a  candidate for a HC job from what is generally known about him.

Clements has as much experience as Andy Reid did  as a a candidate for HC in Philadelphia when he left GB.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 02, 2013, 03:07:37 pm
Packrat, I think their concern over Clements is that he might not be a defacto OC that McCarthy is the OC.
If McCarthy is the OC guy then Clements might not help us as much implementing a GB type system as someone like McCoy or some of the other teams where the OC were implementing the system and calling the plays.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 03:08:42 pm
If Clements can teach Cutler to be a QB instead of a thrower that would be what I would expect.

The difference is that Clements got Rodgers as a young, easily molded prospect whereas Cutler is a seasoned (some would say jaded) NFL veteran who is well past the midpoint of his NFL career already. 

Rodgers also came into the league much farther along than most rookie QBs thanks to the system he played in at Cal.

No question Cutler and the entire Bears offense could improve under Clements' coaching -- possibly dramatically -- but to expect he can just port everything over to a completely different player, at a different point in his career, and get equally stellar results is IMO unrealistic.

That being said...  if Clements' ability to develop Cutler (even this late in Cutty's career) can be further leveraged by his ability to help our D get better at shutting down Rodgers & Co...  THEN you've got something that makes him a lot more valuable from a total strategic / competitive perspective.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 02, 2013, 03:11:37 pm
Uh, maybe and maybe not. It would depend on how much Clements has affected Rodgers, which we dont know, while we already know the McCoy effect in Denver
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 02, 2013, 03:11:57 pm
Packrat, I think their concern over Clements is that he might not be a defacto OC that McCarthy is the OC.
If McCarthy is the OC guy then Clements might not help us as much implementing a GB type system as someone like McCoy or some of the other teams where the OC were implementing the system and calling the plays.

Once again, the requirements for OC and HC are diffferent. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: packrat on January 02, 2013, 03:19:27 pm
If Clements can teach Cutler to be a QB instead of a thrower that would be what I would expect.

The difference is that Clements got Rodgers as a young, easily molded prospect whereas Cutler is a seasoned (some would say jaded) NFL veteran who is well past the midpoint of his NFL career already. 

Rodgers also came into the league much farther along than most rookie QBs thanks to the system he played in at Cal.

No question Cutler and the entire Bears offense could improve under Clements' coaching -- possibly dramatically -- but to expect he can just port everything over to a completely different player, at a different point in his career, and get equally stellar results is IMO unrealistic.

That being said...  if Clements' ability to develop Cutler (even this late in Cutty's career) can be further leveraged by his ability to help our D get better at shutting down Rodgers & Co...  THEN you've got something that makes him a lot more valuable from a total strategic / competitive perspective.

True.  Nothing is guaranteed.  What the Bears, or any NFL team, needs is that unique qjality to mold everything together into a productive group of individuals.  I see no reason to rule out Clements based upon what I have seen in his
performance.

He did coach up Rodgers, whom many people panned as a "system GB who had a habit if crrying the ball too high". 
 
He also coached up a nonentity called Matt Flynn into a pretty good QB candidate.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 03:25:17 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/02/jerry-jones-says-changes-are-coming/

The article doesn't say it, but I will.

Jason Garrett will be fired or demoted, and the 2013 HC of the Dallas Cowboys will be...  Lovie Smith.

You heard it here first.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 02, 2013, 03:49:04 pm
Cant say it would surprise me. I think his gig is more like KC than Dallas
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 03:53:41 pm
Lovie mastered the art of sucking up to his bosses for almost a decade in Chicago. His players played hard (for the most part) but clean, and they rarely created problems on or off the field. 

That is EXACTLY the kind of HC Jerry Jones wants and frankly, that the franchise needs to keep from becoming any more of a parody of itself than it already is. 

For Lovie's part, it gets him back to Texas, with a big-spending owner and a roster that is more talented by far than KC's or any of the other teams likely to make him an offer.

It's a tremendous fit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 02, 2013, 03:54:51 pm
Gruden and Jerry Jones seems a more appropriate match. Gruden is more Jerry Jones's style.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 03:59:11 pm
I don't see it that way.  With Gruden and Jones you'd have two alpha dogs and that never works out.   

JJ wants a yes man that will keep his mouth shut.  That most definitely is not Gruden.

Dallasbear's insights on this would be welcome but he hasn't been on here for awhile.  Hope he's OK.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 04:05:08 pm
My question is, if we hire a Packers coach as our HC, does the favorable reffing come with?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 02, 2013, 04:12:31 pm
LOL
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 02, 2013, 04:17:09 pm
I just felt JJ is more of a splashy type. Got to hire a name such as Cowher or Gruden as opposed to an assistant. Yes I could see Lovie in Dallas tooI just dont see Lovie being as splashy as Gruden or Cowher.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 02, 2013, 08:45:35 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/02/carmichael-interviews-for-bears-job/
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 08:54:05 pm
Carmichael can have the job but only if he brings their LT Bushrod and the Saints OL coach along with.

 ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 09:00:13 pm
Man, Emery is just flat out on a mission.

The pace of this search process is unlike anything Ive ever seen out of Halas Hall.

When Emery was hired one thing every person to a man talked about was his work ethic. We are really starting to see that now and hopefully the same thoroughness and intensity will be put toward the draft and FA in the coming months.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 02, 2013, 09:11:15 pm
Normally the Bears would not have even settled on a consulting company by now...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 09:18:19 pm
Maybe George really is a different breed of McCaskey...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 02, 2013, 09:31:14 pm
The other thing and this might seem trivial, hut I would really prefer a HC who has a record of successful offense in outdoor, cold weather conditions. I'm tired of "Bear weather" working to the other teams advantage more than our own.

Another plus for McCoy or Clements and a minus for the Bucs and Saints OCs.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Pekin on January 02, 2013, 10:48:38 pm
The short passing game is fine in bad weather it is the long passing game that gets dicey.  The Patriots and Packers both just keep throwing the ball succesfully in cold weather.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 03, 2013, 01:05:54 am

The only problem with keeping Marinelli as DC is who was really running the D, Lovie or Marinelli?  I think it was Lovie.

I don't believe this.  If you're going to keep Marinelli then you may as well had kept Lovie.  Of course this is Lovie's defense.  And this defense isn't evolving into a powerhouse defense going into next year and the future with Pep, Tillman, Urly, and Briggs all in their 30's.  Got to replace them and I don't believe Rod can make this defense better next year and beyond.

Clean house for Christ sakes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 03, 2013, 01:12:57 am
BEARS 2013 OPPONENTS


HOME:  Dallas, New York Giants, New Orleans, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit


AWAY:  Philadelphia, Washington, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 03, 2013, 01:17:36 am
Yep the farthest west the Bears will travel next season is St. Louis.  Interesting.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 03, 2013, 02:50:13 am
BEARS 2013 OPPONENTS


HOME:  Dallas, New York Giants, New Orleans, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit


AWAY:  Philadelphia, Washington, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit

 And none of us knows what these teams are going to look like next season.

 It's not predictable anymore.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 07:01:42 am
Thats a pretty tough schedule for a team that struggled to win 10 games.   You can look at it and say well there's only 5 playoff teams on there (Washington, Vikes, Pack, Bengals and Ravens)...  but there are also teams like Dallas, NYG, New Orleans and Pittsburgh who missed the postseason this year but certainly won't be down for long.  And a Rams team that started putting things together this year and will really begin reaping the benefits of those RGIII draft picks next season. Even the Eagles could bounce back in a hurry if they fix their OL and can get that culture turned back around. They have a Top 5 draft pick this year so that could go a long way towards solving their OL issues.

We had also better get our bad/cold weather offense geared up big time because there are only 3 indoor games on that entire schedule (@ Rams, @ Vikings, @ Lions) and with all the northern cities on the slate the games from mid-November onward are gonna be cold ones no matter how the actual dates fall out.  Which in and of itself argues for a guy like McCoy or Clements over the Saints or Bucs OCs whose teams have the benefit of playing indoors and/or in warm weather the majority of every season.   

The bottom line is that Emery and the new coaches will have their hands full.

At least we dont have the Niners or Seahawks.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: chifaninva on January 03, 2013, 07:17:29 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/02/jerry-jones-says-changes-are-coming/

The article doesn't say it, but I will.

Jason Garrett will be fired or demoted, and the 2013 HC of the Dallas Cowboys will be...  Lovie Smith.

You heard it here first.

Ummm, I think I already mentioned that. So that makes you second...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 08:32:56 am
I took the time last night to listen to Phil Emery's press conference. I had been reading rave reviews about it all over the blogs, veteran beat writers saying it was the most informative presser they had ever attended, etc.

I've got to say that if you're a Bears fan you really need to check it out.  This Emery guy is a breath of fresh air after a Lovie/Angelo regime marked by a condescending know-it-all attitude, canned non-answers, mis/dis-information, blame shifting and just general B.S.  Emery is a straight shooter, takes you step by step through his thought processes regarding the team, clearly spells out expectations of the new HC, where the 2012 Bears did well, where they fell short, etc.

Many beat writers have already captured the highlights of various topics he covered, but one I really picked up on is that he wants the GM/HC relationship to be a true partnership where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.  He specifically singled out the Falcons and the Seahawks as teams he feels are really "getting" this concept and where he wants the Bears to get to with this new hire.  This is one of the big reasons he is fast-tracking the HC search, so he can get the new guy on board before draft preps start in earnest and really collaborate with him throughout the entire process. 

It's all over the Web, just google Phil Emery Press Conference.  From what I can tell he has already put more thought and time into the Bears his first year on the job than Angelo did his entire time here.  The more he talks, the more you really realize what a waste of time and money his predecessor was.  You also walk away feeling confident he'll get us the right guys, not just for the sideline but the roster as well.

Like I said a couple weeks ago...  up to this point it's been hard to grade Emery knowing that his hands were tied on various fronts.  This is the first offseason where Emery has free reign to do things his way and by all appearances, George M. and Phillips are gonna pretty much stay the eff out of his way.  I'm excited to see what happens and I think we are in for one of the most active offseasons we've seen at Halas Hall in a long time.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 09:20:38 am
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/03/bills-line-up-interview-with-lovie-smith/

Still think he winds up being a surprise hire by the Cowboys.

Considering we play Dallas at Soldier Field in 2013, that would be something. And definitely a primetime event.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 03, 2013, 09:27:58 am
As if the Cowboys are not already bad enough at clock management and timouts at the end of games they are going to add Lovie to the mix? Good luck with that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 09:31:13 am
I think Lovie would have to be really hard up to take the Buffalo gig.  I mean wow, what an awful job.  No QB, underperforming D, crappy city, terrible weather, Patriots on the schedule twice a year...

I would expect Lovie is pretty well invested, the Bears have paid him VERY well over the years and they still owe him for the last year of his contract so it wouldn't surprise me if he's pretty picky about his next destination.  Buffalo is likely just a tune-up interview for the gig he really wants (someplace else).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 09:35:58 am
Maybe, but I still think he isnt a Jerry's guy, OTOH Lovie is a slick talker, a snake oil salesman for sure so he just might sell himself to JJ.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 03, 2013, 09:39:04 am
George McCaskey....doing things the right way for a change????

(http://terribleviolence.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/GEORGE.jpg)
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 03, 2013, 09:40:20 am
Holmgren is looking for work. Could wind up in Big D....maybe we'll even interview him....

Career record 161-111-0 (Regular Season)
13-11 (Postseason)
174-122-0 (Overall)
Super Bowl wins 1996 Super Bowl XXXI
Championships won 2005 NFC Championship
1997 NFC Championship
1996 NFC Championship
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 09:43:33 am
Yeah I've heard Holmgren pop up a couple of times.

But it really seems to me like Emery is targeting guys that are young(er) and hungry.  I don't know the ages of all the guys on his interview schedule but if any of them are over 50 I would be surprised.

Bruce Arians is a guy a lot of pundits had assumed would be one of Emery's first calls but from what I've seen so far he's not even on the list.  He's 60-ish.  Just sayin.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: VJ on January 03, 2013, 10:00:46 am
Holmgren is the only "retread" I would accept.  As much as I hate the Queens and Favre, it was a lot of fun seeing Green Bay seethe with rage that year.  It would be something to see the old man make something out of another gunslinger.  It's just a matter of how much Holmgren want to get back in the grind and how much he wants to prove that he can be successful again after the wasted years in Cleveland.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 10:04:26 am
In Holmgren's last two jobs he demanded -- and was given -- total control over personnel matters. It sort of worked out in Seattle but was a disaster in Cleveland.

That won't be happening with Emery.  Phil has made it known that the HC will have extensive input into talent evaluation and that it will be a collaborative process, but that the buck stops with him (Emery) ultimately.

If Holmgren is willing to work under that arrangement maybe it could happen but otherwise it's a no-go.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 03, 2013, 10:39:55 am
Normally the Bears would not have even settled on a consulting company by now...

Sad, but true. 

So if Emery is on the fast track, and we cant get access to McCoy, that could slow things down a bit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 10:57:47 am
Supposedly the Bears interview him this coming weekend, where or when exactly is not known.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 11:09:14 am
Emery is interviewing McCoy this weekend...  I believe it will be Sunday but don't know that for sure.  IIRC the Broncos are requiring all suitors to come to Denver and interview him there so as to not have him traveling before their playoff game.   

Given the fast pace Emery is moving on the other guys so far this week, it could be that he's prepared to make McCoy an offer on the spot if he likes what he hears.  In which case Clements may not even get an interview (which is probably what GB is hoping for).  Somehow I think though that Emery will follow-through on all his options cause that's just how he rolls.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 03, 2013, 11:13:24 am
Yea they gotta move fast with him if they truly are interested as the Broncos will more than likely be going to the Super Bowl. They're my pick to make it and win it all.....
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 11:32:36 am
I agree that Emery could make McCoy an offer as further contact with him will probably be limited to phone conversation.  Its good he has had meetings with other candidates to get a feel for a big interview this weekend. While this weekends meeting isnt a likely hire interview as supposedly George and Phillips are supposedly to interview the top 3 or so candidates. If that goes down as being likely Emery could have to wait till after the Super Bowl to have final interviews or bypass Phillips and George and hire on the spot. Maybe Phillips and George go to Denver with Emery this weekend. Now that might be what goes down. If the all star games are an actual deadline as opposed to being a "goal" then the Bears will have to be quick about things.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 11:38:18 am
Here's a good article that was just posted, recapping what's happened so far and yet to come.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears/post/_/id/4681801/emery-search-fast-furious-and-thorough#more
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 11:46:02 am
The wild card in the McCoy interview that isn't there in any of the others is the prior history with Cutler.

In Emery's presser he called Cutler a "franchise quarterback" and left no doubt that he will be a Bear for the foreseeable future and that all resources will be put in place to help him reach his potential.  So I have to think that will be a topic of intensive discussion when he and McCoy talk in Denver on Sunday.  If McCoy is genuinely enthusiastic about reuniting with Cutler, and can articulate a plan to get him to the next level, I have to think he moves firmly to the inside track.  On the other hand, if Emery senses any hesitation or reluctance on that point from McCoy, he will move on.

Cutler haters are going to say this gives him too much influence over the selection process, but that's just the way it is.  Not to mention he has more than paid his dues under the prior cast of clowns.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 11:51:52 am
Excellent article. And getting all the interviews done and the proper evaluations completed could take till after the SuperBowl. You dont want that to go that long if you can avoid it.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 11:56:38 am
I have to think this waiting period is especially hard on Marinelli and our defensive veterans.  Marinelli's fate won't be known until after the new HC is hired, and if he's let go who knows how many spots on the roster may be up for grabs. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 11:58:37 am
Good point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 12:16:00 pm
One thing that makes me think McCoy might be inclined to keep Marinelli is that he knows from being in Denver how much a good defense can make the offense's job easier.  When he and Cutler were in Denver, their offense was world class but their defense was atrocious and it cost them the playoffs.  Since then they've drastically upgraded their defense and you see where they are now. Granted Denver runs a 3-4 to Chicago's 4-3, but they are both extremely effective units that place an emphasis on getting after the QB and forcing turnovers.  The schemes and personnel are dramatically different but the goals and results are largely the same.  Just cause McCoy currently works for a team with a 3-4 scheme doesn't mean he's going to expect or require that in Chicago...  nor should he.

The only reason I could see a new HC wanting to clear out Marinelli is if he believes Marinelli will [intentionally or unintentionally] undermine his authority as HC, especially with the defensive veterans. Marinelli is under contract for 2013 so he really doesn't have the option to quit.  His two choices for 2013 are to work under the new HC (if asked), or be fired.  If the new HC decides to keep Marinelli and halfway through the season it's not working out, it could create a bad dynamic in the locker room and compromise the success of the season.  The new HC may decide not to take that gam-ble.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Sportster on January 03, 2013, 12:29:48 pm
Personally, I think I'd like to see the Bears go with a 3-4 D. I think it'll help with pass defense. Might take a couple years of it to get it where we need it to be with personnel, but that seems to be the wave of the future. We've got insane QB play and very few top RB's or teams with great run games to worry about. What we'd need to do would be get a stout NT and a couple athletic LB's and we should be GTG. Granted our quality players on D are aging fast, so we need our drafts and FA's to hit darned near every time to get this going and keep from diving for a few years till we get talent back up. Angie really screwed us.....painfully obvious...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 03, 2013, 12:33:52 pm
I can't see a DC (especially Marinelli tanking it). Every day they are auditioning for their next job.
I think Marinelli takes a lot of pride in what he does.
I could also see the new HC taking a wait and see approach. I mean an offensive HC is more likely to be tied closely with offensive guys and would want to bring them on board. I expect they are more flexible in the DC etc.
They could decide to keep the D staff in place especially since they have a core of aging vets in place.
We can be pretty sure that Urlacher is gone in a year or maybe 2.
Peppers, Tillman and Briggs are getting some age on them as well...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 12:37:26 pm
Emery said on Tuesday that he wasn't married to either a 4-3 or 3-4 but from a practical standpoint, since we have 4-3 personnel in place it would take a very strong sell job by the new HC to convince him on a 3-4 scheme.  And that the transition would have to be successfully executed without a lot of roster churn.

So I think the 4-3 is here to stay, at least until some more of our front 7 guys age-out.  It may not be the Lovie/Marinelli version we've all grown to associate with the Bears, but that will be the base configuation.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on January 03, 2013, 12:40:03 pm
So McCoy get hired for HC.  I can easily see him keeping Rod Marinelli as DC for two reasons.  The Defense unit was good and the players and coach work well together.  The added benefit is he would have a DC with HC experience that he could draw from.  Remember Marinelli is DC and assistant HC for the Bears.

The Big question I have is who does he bring in as OC?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 12:45:26 pm
The Big question I have is who does he bring in as OC?

IIRC he worked with Jeremy Bates in Denver.  Assuming they see eye-to-eye, the most logical thing IMO would be to promote Bates to OC and be done with it.  Although in reality it may be more of a relationship like McCarthy and Clements in GB.

IMO the most critical staff hire under the HC, without question, will be the OL coach.  Not only did our OL lack pro caliber players this year, they were one of the most uncoordinated, undiscipined and fundamentally unsound units I have ever seen, at any level.  That's coaching (or lack thereof). Emery will presumably fix the talent part...  but we have GOT to get an ace OL coach in here as well.

As for Marinelli's previous HC experience, I wouldn't be so eager to see our new HC draw on that.  Unless it's to learn what NOT to do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 12:54:04 pm
Thats what I am thinking where McCoy does the play calling but Bates gets the title
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 12:57:06 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/03/report-bears-request-interview-with-bruce-arians/

I was wondering if this guy was on our radar.  He's a little older than the other guys Emery has talked to but his credentials are solid.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 03, 2013, 01:02:14 pm
So McCoy get hired for HC.  I can easily see him keeping Rod Marinelli as DC for two reasons.  The Defense unit was good and the players and coach work well together.  The added benefit is he would have a DC with HC experience that he could draw from.  Remember Marinelli is DC and assistant HC for the Bears.

The Big question I have is who does he bring in as OC?

Of course I disagree with this.  Do you see this defense that's aging getting better in the next 2 seasons?   I don't.  Hell they didn't look good at all after the Houston game.   Besides this is Lovie's defense.  If they were going to keep it together then why fire Lovie?

I see Emery getting so much love but not one person has asked why the hell the worst OL/OC in Bears history is still on the team?   IF Lovie was fired for not getting the team into the playoffs and it's offensive woes then why in the world is Tice still here?   Makes me wonder if Emery is on the level with Lovie's firing.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 03, 2013, 01:07:09 pm
Emery is going to let the next HC pick who he wants to keep or get rid of. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 03, 2013, 01:08:08 pm
Tice has no business being on the team period irregardless of who Emery picks as HC.  He was terrible.

Doesn't add up why he hasn't been launched.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 01:09:55 pm
I had been wondering the same, Phill.  Since Emery said Lovie got launched primarily because of our bad offense, it seemed to me like Tice and our waste of an OL coach, at minimum, should have been let go at the same time. But then I listened to Emery's press conference and he explained.

All of the remaining Bears coaches have at least one year left on their contracts, and they will all be coming up for review once the new HC is on board.  The HC will decide which ones he wants to keep and which he wants to replace, and the ones who are let go presumably will have their remaining contracts paid-out just as Lovie is.  Part of this is out of respect for the new HC, and part of it is to ensure we're not left with any gaps in the staff in the event the new HC can't pull anyone he wants to fill a certain position.

The prevailing wisdom seems to be that Marinelli, Bates and Toub have a decent chance of sticking while the rest are probably goners. But we'll just have to wait and see.   
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 01:12:37 pm
While I was in shocked that a 10-6 coach gets launched it doesnt surprise me that they keep some of the assistants. We all know not all the problems were Lovie's. At this point we dont know the coaching changes and maybe there will be a lot of changes as soon as we know who the head coach will be and who he can count on to bring with him and what positions they will man. Emery is right not terminating any current coaches
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 03, 2013, 01:13:30 pm
Yapper:

As bad as our offensive line is and the offense period that's no excuse for keeping Tice.   If that's one of the reasons that Lovie is fired then Tice shouldv'e been gone the same day that Lovie was let go.  Doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 01:18:37 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/03/vikings-shrugging-off-harvins-absence-while-rehabbing/

This guy is such a tool...  but if the Bears could pick him up and somehow get his head out of his azz he could take our offense to a whole new level.

He is doing everything he can to not be a Viking after this season but I don't know if the headaches (pun intended) that come with him justify the talent.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 01:19:57 pm
Well what you dont want to happen is that the new HC is hired but he cant bring assistant X with him and we have already terminated the needed assistant. Thats why all the assistants are under contract for 2013. We dont want to get in the same position we had whereby we had to take Martz. Emery is doing the right thing. Maybe Phill will get his wish and all the assistants will get launched once the new HC is hired
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 03, 2013, 01:25:43 pm
Its a sign of respect for the new HC.  Let him make his own decisions, although I am pretty sure Tice gets launched.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 01:29:04 pm
I personally would be pretty nervous if Marinelli was let go.

Our D has its flaws but they are sound enough to hold the fort if our offense can improve by even 50%. Those defensive players and especially the DL would run in front of a bus for Marinelli and I really worry how much the D might regress next year if we brought in a new DC and had to manage a whole scheme change on that side of the ball at the same time as installing a whole new offense.

On top of which, I would really like to see Marinelli get a chance to stretch his wings and use some of our promising younger players (Shea, Wootton, Melton, Conte, Hardin) to freshen up concepts that have gone stale.  As Rivera could tell you, Lovie, kept a tight grip on how "his" D was run and there may be new wrinkles Marinelli has been itching to try and finally would be at liberty to do.

Any or all of the offensive staff can be out the door yesterday as far as I'm concerned...  but I think keeping some continuity on our D will be critical so I'd say hands-off as far as that unit goes.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 01:31:38 pm
I believe Tice gets launched too but then its more of a face saving thing for Tice, that he isnt blamed for something beyond his control. "Well this new HC came in and he wanted his own guy in there" Thats understandable when you go looking for a new job.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: boogie on January 03, 2013, 01:34:12 pm
Before we heap too much love on Marinelli, lets not forget the Bears bend dont break mentality between the 20s.  How many 3rd and longs did we give up?  Extremely frustrating.  A more aggressive style D might not be such a bad thing.  Just saying.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Phill23 on January 03, 2013, 01:35:16 pm
Agree totally.  Great point.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 01:44:36 pm
Something has been bothering me but I havent said so before, but we all know that this was Lovie's defense and that basically Lovie was totally in control of it. But what we dont know and probably will never know is just how much control Lovie had over the offense. When the game offensive and defensive gameplans were formulated how much control did Lovie have on the offensive side of the ball? When Tice was calling the plays during the game, how much was Lovie and how much was Tice?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on January 03, 2013, 01:46:02 pm
I expect little coaching changes on D.  Major changes on O.

JMHO
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 01:46:09 pm
In Phill's opinion it was all Tice and therefore he deserved to be launched more than Lovie. Well we dont know that at all.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on January 03, 2013, 01:49:55 pm
The point Emery kept harping on in the presser is they failed 5 of the last 6 years.  All those years the O was inadequate.  There was no consistency on offense.  It was bad year after year after year.  OC after OC after OC after OC.

They kept changing to OC and Lovie never got the O fixed.  It wasn't just this year.  It wasn't just Mike Tice.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 03, 2013, 01:51:59 pm
how would you guys feel about Tice back to OL coach and Bates to OC under McCoy?
I know our OL looked better last year than this year. I expect Tice the OC doesn't have a lot of time to really work with the OL very much.

I expect we'll see more changes on the O side of the coaching tree, just curious how you guys felt about Tice back at OL coach.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 01:52:38 pm
I expect little coaching changes on D.  Major changes on O.

Same here.  Tice, Drake, RBs Coach, TE coach (do we have one?) OL coach -- seeya.  Those firings will happen as soon as the new HC can get their replacements on board.  Hopefully that is a matter of days and not weeks. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 01:57:23 pm
I expect we'll see more changes on the O side of the coaching tree, just curious how you guys felt about Tice back at OL coach.

No.  I was a believer in Tice at one time, not anymore.

The guy can teach (sort of), but he can't evaluate talent for sh*t.  If he could, he would have been begging for better players 3 years ago already instead of telling our GMs the guys we had were fine. He also, I believe, had a lot to do with 3 or 4 guys on our OL playing out of position all the time. The decision to move Webb from RT to LT was a total fail that wasted two prime years of Cutler's career and probably took another two off from the punishment he took. And he stuck with Carimi WAY too long this year when he was getting schooled every game at RT while a far more capable player (Jonathan Scott) was standing on the sidelines.

There has got to be a better OL coach out there , and I am strongly in favor of finding that guy and giving him a blank check to come here and fix a unit that has been a flat-out embarrassment to the franchise for years. 
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on January 03, 2013, 02:06:15 pm
My #1 OL Coaching candidate has to be Russ Grimm.  Wisenhunt is out in Ariz so I assume Grimm is gone as well.
I expect him to get a HC gig though.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 02:09:04 pm
PFT says that the other teams interviewing McCoy this weekend are the Bills, Cardinals and Eagles.

If that's our competition, I like our chances.  We are the biggest market, the only team of the 4 who came close to making the playoffs this year, and the only team of the 4 to have our QB situation locked-down.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: navigator on January 03, 2013, 02:11:14 pm
I think we'll pretty much have our pick of coaches unless it comes down to $$$ or control of the team roster.
I would expect that most first time HCs won't push too hard on those fronts.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 02:12:39 pm
My #1 OL Coaching candidate has to be Russ Grimm.

Grimm's reputation as an OL coach now may not be what it was a few years ago.  Those OLs the Cardinals put on the field the last few years have been just horrific.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on January 03, 2013, 02:16:33 pm
The whole offense was horrific.  The main reason the GM was fired.

I give him a pass on the last couple of years in Arizona and look more at what he accomplished in Pitt and when he first got to Arizona.

That GM just destroyed that team.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on January 03, 2013, 02:20:38 pm
So Lovie's #1 and #2 choice for his next gig is Buffalo and Arizona?

Arizona Cardinals

Replacing: Ken Whisenhunt

In the mix: Ray Horton, Mike McCoy, Lovie Smith, Todd Haley

The latest: Andy Reid cancelled an interview with the team Thursday after spending nine hours meeting with Kansas City Chiefs officials.Team president Michael Bidwill also interviewed Cardinals defensive coordinator Ray Horton for the position Tuesday and is scheduled to meet with Broncos offensive coordinator Mike McCoy in Denver this weekend. The team has also requested to interview Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley, who served in the same role for the Cardinals when they won the NFC in 2008. An NFL Network report listed the Cardinals as one of two teams that former Bears coach Lovie Smith would be most interested in leading.

Buffalo Bills
Replacing: Chan Gailey

In the mix: Ken Whisenhunt, Ray Horton, Hue Jackson, Lovie Smith, Doug Marrone, Chip Kelly

The latest: Bills execs interviewed recently fired Cardinals head coach Whisenhunt as well as his former defensive coodinator Ray Horton for their vacant head coaching job. A source also told USA TODAY Sports that Bengals assistant Hue Jackson will also speak to the Bills next week after his team's wild card game this Saturday against Houston. The Bills are also one of three teams that will interview Oregon coach Chip Kelly about his possible interest to move from college to the NFL.

An NFL Network report listed Buffalo as the other team Smith has the most interest in and Smith is expected to interview for the job at some point soon. ESPN is saying that Syracuse head coach Doug Marrone will also interview with the Bills
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 02:25:59 pm
The Cardinals run a 3-4 defense...  a very good one at that.

Their DC is Ray Horton, who is widely respected around the league and in fact thought by some to be on the track to a HC gig as soon as this year.

For Lovie to come to Arizona he would either have to embrace a defensive scheme that is the opposite of everything he's ever coached and believes in...  or Horton would have to go away and they would need to completely rebuild the D around Lovie's DC and 4-3 scheme. Which, given they are also bringing in a new GM, could be done but it would almost certainly mean at least a couple years of BAD D till all the pieces are in place.  And in a conference with the Niners and Seahawks, bad D is not a good thing. And it's not just as easy as Lovie swiping Marinelli away from the Bears cause Marinelli is contracted with the Bears through next season so if the Bears HC wants to keep him he is obligated to stay.

On top of which, Arizona has BIG TIME problems on their offense and as we've seen, fixing offenses is not Lovie's thing.

Lovie might be interested in AZ, but it doesn't seem like a good fit.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 02:27:09 pm
Wmljohn -

Where are you getting those articles from, and is there one for the Bears?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: wmljohn on January 03, 2013, 02:28:53 pm
NFL coaching carousel: Find out who could be going where (http://"http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/02/nfl-coaching-carousel-updates/1803763/)


Chicago Bears
Replacing: Lovie Smith

In the mix: Mike McCoy, Joe DeCamillis, Mike Sullivan, Keith Armstrong, Tom Clements, Pete Carmichael Jr.

The latest: A variety of reports all indicate that the Bears have focused their initial search on a variety of current NFL assistants. McCoy, Buccaneers offensive coordinator Mike Sullivan and Falcons special teams coordinator Keith Armstrong, Cowboys special teams coordinator Joe DeCamillis and Saints offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael Jr. will reportedly get interviews. The Chicago Tribune reports that the team would also like to interview Packers offensive coordinator Tom Clements.

MIKE DITKA: Firing Lovie Smith was 'stupid'
 (http://"http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/01/mike-ditka-bears-lovie-smith-fired/1802589/")
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 02:30:18 pm
Cool thanks
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 02:47:09 pm
Some interesting insights from Bears TE Matt Spaeth on Bruce Arians are currently being relayed on the ESPN Bears blog Twitter feed.

Spaeth played four years with Arians as his OC in Pittsburgh.  Says Arians approach to the run game is "downhill, attacking, power based" and he is good at putting QBs in positions to succeed with playaction, rollouts, bootlegs, etc.  Says "nobody" in the Pittsburgh lockerroom was happy to see him go and Big Ben was particularly disappointed to lose him.   Says he's a little surprised Arians has not been contacted by more teams already.

Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 03:17:21 pm
I hope our defensive players are ready to do some recalibrating because if we hire an offensive minded HC the team dynamics are gonna change dramatically.

For every one of these guys' entire time with the Bears, the D has ruled the roost. Defenders have been the face of the franchise, it's where all the media attention has always gone, etc. etc.  And not without justification...  the D has carried the O during the Lovie era far more often than vice versa.  The good side of that is an extremely high level of morale within that unit, the dark side is this elitist vibe that guys like Urlacher and Briggs have sometimes given off and even a hint of palpable disdain for the offense.

But now you bring in a McCoy or an Arians or a Clements, and all the sudden the Bears identity isn't all tied up in the D anymore.  Not that the pendulum is going to swing 100% to the offense, but there will be balance like we haven't seen.  Emery has already started working to give the offense its due in the draft and FA, and will now look to extend that into coaching and player development.  Guys like Cutler and Marshall are emerging as team spokespersons as a compliment (and sometimes, a counterweight) to Urlacher. Eventually it won't be 4 or 5 defensive Bears going to the Pro Bowl and one guy or nobody on offense...  it'll be a few on each side of the ball.  That dynamic is going to take some managing by the new HC but if he can get this "us vs. them" mentality out of the locker room and get all the players behind one agenda I think it could be real special, sustainable thing that happens to the Bears in the next 2-4 years.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Keysbear on January 03, 2013, 03:18:00 pm
We don't have a power back to run that system.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 03:22:19 pm
We don't have a power back to run that system.

Well, and that's the question with Arians. McCoy's ability to adapt scheme to personnel is practically legendary, but is Arians on that same level?  Can he get his system up and running with the personnel upgrades we are able to make in the next few months? Or is it gonna take two years of drafting and FA pickups to get the players he needs?

I haven't watched much of the Colts (other than the first game of the season) but IIRC the Colts really don't have a power RB either.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 04:12:01 pm
Like I said earlier all the signs point to McCoy. He seems to be the most adaptable
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 04:16:06 pm
IMO the McCoy thing hinges almost entirely on his ties to Cutler.

McCoy is the only one of all the candidates to actually have history with him -- which could either be a tremendous "in" or a big red flag, depending. 

If Emery feels like those two are gonna make magic together -- and the vibe between Emery and McCoy is good as well -- then I think it could be a de facto done deal this weekend (even if the official announcement doesn't come until after Clements and Arians have been interviewed).
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 04:39:47 pm
Thats why I said earlier that Emery needs to find out how the meetings McCoy had with Cutler went and how McCoy would best utilize Cutler and whether he thinks thats something McCoy wants to do.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 04:48:46 pm
Yes, and hopefully Emery has already talked to Cutler (or will be talking to him after this weekend) to get both sides of the story.

It would be nice to hear from Cutler and Marshall about McCoy but they have pretty much gone silent since Sunday.  I think Cutler did his radio show on Monday and since then...  nada.  I wonder if that's by his choice or if he's under a gag order from on top?
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 04:50:58 pm
correctamundo. I have a feeling this is the right man for the job if he wants it
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 04:52:08 pm
Broncos wear blue and orange too... he wouldn't even have to swap out his wardrobe.

 ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 05:03:06 pm
Does anyone have a list of the FA QBs that will be coming available? 

I'm thinking for our #2.  Jason Campbell is just brutal and I don't want us wasting a roster spot on him next season... no way, no how.  We won't have much money to spend on that postion so it could be a tough one.

We probably need to find a 3 as well... a development guy, not old-as-dirt McCown.
Title: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Dave23 on January 03, 2013, 05:18:14 pm
Don't know much about McCoy, but I would love it if Arians got the gig...
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 06:03:15 pm
Yapp, my plan would be to se-sign Blanchard. Is Orton available? ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 06:31:17 pm
I think Blanchard is gone.  Somebody claimed him off our practice squad during the season IIRC.

If the team that claimed him lets him go we can always bring him back, but as of now he's out of the mix.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: yapper on January 03, 2013, 06:37:06 pm
Don't know much about McCoy, but I would love it if Arians got the gig...

The biggest appeal of Arians to me is the HC experience he gained essentially on the job this year with the Colts after Pagano had to bow out.  That experience of running the whole show is something none of the other candidates have.

His age, to me, is a two-edged sword.  On one hand, yeah there's a chance he might not be quite as forward thinking, adaptable or energetic as some of the younger candidates.  OTOH, this team is used to an older, fatherly presence and so the transition to someone like Arians may not be as jarring as a McCoy or a Carmichael who are only about 10-12 years older than our oldest players.  Not that shaking things up with the veterans would necessarily be a bad thing.

Arians' credentials are rock solid in any event, especially when it comes to coaching up QBs and getting the most out of them in big games.  Cutler could definitely benefit from that.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: WshflThinking on January 03, 2013, 06:41:45 pm
I think Blanchard is gone.  Somebody claimed him off our practice squad during the season IIRC.

If the team that claimed him lets him go we can always bring him back, but as of now he's out of the mix.

According to the team transactions Blanchard was released December 4th by the Bears which means he is a FA and we can re-sign him.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 03, 2013, 09:35:50 pm

 UPDATE this also : its the 2013 Chicago Bears
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: davebear on January 03, 2013, 10:02:31 pm
If I've read correctly McCoy was hired by the Bronco's shortly before Cutler was traded.    I don't think the 2 have any history.

I don't know much about McCoy but I remember Orton winning something like 6 in a row then their offense fell off the table. 

Tebow came on and threw for 40 passing yards for 3 1/2 quarters then won the game.

Then they get Manning.

Hard to tell much about the guy from this track record.
Title: Re: 2012 Chicago Bears
Post by: Jackiejokeman on January 03, 2013, 10:07:59 pm
If I've read correctly McCoy was hired by the Bronco's shortly before Cutler was traded.    I don't think the 2 have any history.

I don't know much about McCoy but I remember Orton winning something like 6 in a row then their offense fell off the table. 

Tebow came on and threw for 40 passing yards for 3 1/2 quarters then won the game.

Then they get Manning.

Hard to tell much about the guy from this track record.

 Dave,

 Can you repost this to the 2013 thread?